The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - In The Pocket: The player's perspective on the franchise tag and free agency, and Chase Daniel's take on the 2024 QB class

Episode Date: February 29, 2024

The NFL knows how to keep the news cycle churning, packing the combine, franchise tag decisions and madness of free agency into a three-week period within one month of the Super Bowl. What is all that like from the player's perspective? Robert Mays digs into those topics with Chase Daniel on this episode of The Athletic Football Show.Follow Robert on Twitter: @robertmaysFollow Chase on Twitter: @ChaseDanielSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTube Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert May is joining me today for this week's edition of In the Pocket. It's a long time NFL quarterback. Chase Daniel. Chase, how are you doing, man? Good. I'm well.

I'm well. How are you? I am in San Diego. Obviously, this is where I do the bulk of my shows, as you can see from behind. If you've been looking at our shows, I think we're almost at 30 shows, which is wild. But sunny out here in San Diego, we always talk about the weather. You're in Indie. And the comment, how's the weather?

Because that is sometimes can be a little tricky. So here's my most, the most frustrating part about Indianapolis to me isn't that it can be cold because I deal with that all the time. It's that from any given day to the next, there's absolutely no rhyme or reason to the change in the weather. So yesterday, I walk out of my hotel. It's 70 degrees outside. Because it's the Midwest and it's February, I am wearing a sweater. So I'm instantly sweating by the time I'm. get to the convention center to do this.

Today, I think, I think okay. It's nice out in Indy. I will have just like a normal shirt on. I'll be able to walk. I'll be fine. I walk out of my hotel, 25 mile an hour winds, and it's like 42 degrees. So I'm perpetually either too hot or too cold when I am here for the combine. It's inevitable.

It's like the one thing you can count on every single year. That's crazy, man. Yeah. I, um, I'm actually glad I'm not at the combine. I know the whole the whole company's there, but I'm, I'm okay here in, in sunny Southern California. You don't say you're fine missing Indianapolis here for these few days. Have you eaten, obviously, like St. Elmo's yet?

So that is tonight. Tonight is my one, I think we're going to, Harriet is he's not St. Elmo's, but tonight is like one like steak, go out, shrimp cocktail. I typically set up a lot of dinners when I'm in Indy for the Combine, whether it's with coworkers or friends or everyone's here. And I actually think that there's some decent restaurants in India that a lot of people haven't been to.

So I've taken it upon myself the last couple of years to put some of that together and show people like, oh, this place is good. We should do this. But because I was coming off of the Super Bowl in Vegas and Mexico, I was like, I'm not making a single fucking dinner reservation this entire week. Dude, like there's no way. How is Mexico? Amazing.

We got to talk more about it. But I saw some of the tacos with like the filet tacos with just the lime. That was it. Right? And just the salt. And that's it. that's amazing. Takaria Califa de Leon.

It's in more of like a, it's like where people work. Like it's in more of a just an actual, not industrial, but like an actual place in Mexico city that's a little bit less touristy, a little bit more just locals. And I walked in there. It was a little hole in the wall place. And all they do is these like really thinly sliced beef tacos. And that, that was it. They throw it on the plancha.

They season it with salt and lime. They put it on a tortilla that they press ready. in front of you, and they give it to you on a plate. And the only things to put it on there in the entire restaurant, there's a green salsa, there's a red salsa, and there are limes, and that's all they give you. Oh, my gosh. That actually sounds. No cilantro, no onion, no nothing.

So the beef and the steak is the star of the dish. It's insane. Like, it's so, so good. And I've never, I've never had a taco like that. Like, they literally created this. Like, I think it's called guanera is what they call it. And it's a taco they invented. And it's just this, like,

super, super thin tender beef on a tortilla. And so that was like, I had 100 amazing things that I ate in Mexico. But that's what we have in common. That bite really, really jumped out to me. That's awesome. Well, I'm glad you're, well, you might not be, but you're back in the grind of it. So we appreciate it guys. I'm ready, man.

It's awesome. I like indie. I like being here. There's a lot of stuff to dig into. So let's kick this off. Nate, I wanted to ask you this first. Nate and I did a show yesterday that ran on Wednesday about, the teams we thought were the most interesting of the offseason.

I think more accurately you could probably describe it as teams facing pivotal off seasons, is the group of nine that we talked about. I wanted to ask you, as we weighed into pre-free agency, pre-draft, which teams are you paying the most attention to at the stage of the calendar? Yeah, I saw the show. I thought you guys did fantastic, and that's great. You know, for me, this time of year, I'm used to just completely not watching any football, like laying back, relaxing, like none of that.

So I've sort of had to get into the rhythm of watching these combine guys, right? And then when you watch these combine guys specifically, like I watched the quarterbacks obviously, but it's a loaded class at receiver. There's some really good edge rushers, I think, in the top tier of that standpoint. But when you start doing that, then you start doing that. then you start making the circle back to which player fits which teams. And then for me, I make another circle, okay, well, let me just go somewhere else. What teams need what?

And then I'm like, okay. And then I'm like, and then that's how like my brain works. I never thought of it like that. But now I've got like a really good like multi-circle universe in my head of what these teams need. We're going to be on NFL network for four straight days talking draft and combine and everything. but the first team that comes to mind for me is the Dallas Cowboys. Like America's team caught what you want and it all has to center around Dak Prescott.

What's he going to get paid? I think in October, I said on this show I thought he was going to be paid the highest of anyone in NFL history as a quarterback. And when you talk about Dak, I think he's played into it, okay? but then you talk about the offseason and almost firing of Mike McCarthy. And then you have the Jerry Jones. Like, they're, to me,

they're the most interesting team because, like, what is it going to look like next year? Who's going to get the Dallas Cowboys job if Mike McCarthy and the Cowboys can't win in the playoffs? But you give Dak another deal because, I mean, you have to. I think his cap hit is like $58 million or something. It's $59.5 million. Close. I was close, which is absurd. And so the Cowboys, if you remember, didn't want to pay DAC a couple years ago.

And so he has all the leverage in the world this year because there's no way in hell you're going into a season with a cap hit like that. So they're going to have to do a deal. And I think there's going to be a six in front of it. Like I don't, call me crazy. Like I wouldn't be surprised with the cap going to 255, which is a skyrocket. If you see something like that. And I just think that with the storyline. of Mike McCarthy on Bill Belichick lurking in the shadows with Jerry Jones.

Like all of that, I know it's all hearsay and I know it's all, but that's to me like one of the more interesting teams. I totally agree. And they fall into a certain category we were talking about yesterday where these teams that seemed like they were well constructed, that seemed like they were contenders, and then they just fizzled out in the playoffs. And the Cowboys fizzled out in an epic way, obviously. So if you're looking at Dallas's roster, if you're looking at the tweaks they made from their offensive play calling perspective last year, my looming question about the Cowboys throughout this entire offseason, and even as we get into like November and December next year, the Cowboys can be 10 and O. They can be 12 in O.

And my question this entire time is still going to be, why is this going to be different? You tell me why this is going to be different. And I think that with Dak, I'm with you. I think he's going to be the highest paid player in the league. He's got all the leverage in the world. And that six in front of that contract, if you look at the percentage of the cap that a guy like Joe Burrow or Justin Herbert got, if you give that same percentage to the next guys in line of quarterback, it is going to be $60 million a year. So they have the DAC conversation and the DAC decision. What about CD Lamb? If Justin Jefferson, and based on everything Quasi Adolfo Mensa said yesterday, it seems like Justin Jefferson is going to be the highest paid player, non-quarterback, in the NFL by the time this.

offseason is over. And we're hearing 35 to 34 million top range of receivers, which is, like, I cannot fathom that as that number, but if you look at the cap and you look at Tyreek, he's 30 right now, like that makes sense for these guys. And that's that, and what I assume, and this is the true from the start, after Nick Bosa got that deal, if I were Justin Jefferson's people, I would go into the conversations with the Vikings. And I would say, okay, you see that Nick Bosa number, you give me $100,000 on top of that and we'll be all set to go here. And what that does by resetting the wide receiver market is it resets it for everybody. So if you're CD Lamb and you're a all pro level player, if you were an offensive player

of the year candidate this year, I would go into my negotiations after Justin Jefferson signs that deal. And I'd say, give me $100,000 less than Justin Jefferson. And I'll be all set to go. Pay me. Yeah. Well, then not only that, you look at the running back position, Tony Pollard. Tony Pollard.

Tyrone Smith is a free agent. there are a lot of very important questions about this team and about what they're going to do differently as we move forward through the off season. So I think that's a very, very good one. So the second one that I had was the Green Bay Packers. I think that they're a really interesting team because you saw Jordan Love come into his own, really the last seven, eight games of the year, and play at an extremely high level. level. And I was working out here in San Diego with Jordan Love the other day. First of all, like, like, like I, I worked out. I got crushed. I was like, okay, I'm not coming back. There's no way. I'm fully retired. Like got sore everything. I'm like, I thought I had it. I'm 37.

You to even dig into it to start. Oh, man. It's like, it was like one of those first times working out here with Todd Durkin. His, so his, uh, girlfriend, I guess, is a professional volleyball player. She's down here in San Diego. And he just like, DMTD because he had saw like Drew Breeze was working out with him. La Dane Tommanson used to work out with him and was like, hey, and just started working there. And I was there. It was like me, Jordan Love, Drew Breeze, Jared Stidham and Brett Rippin. I'm like, dude, I'm part of the group again. Let's go. And we were getting after it, man. It was fun. But like just to see him work. Like that's what brought it up to me. Just to see him work. And he's got to focus this offseason.

And I've worked out with him once, but I've heard it from my guy, Todd Durkin, who is leading that group and really from Drew who's worked out with him a few times. He's got that focus, man, of a Drew Breeze like guy that I've worked out with before that is just so focused on the next rep. And so he's not like in La La Land. He's like, I'm here to get better for an hour and a half and I'm going to take every set and every rep possible to get better. And I'm not saying that's going to ensure success, but just from an outsider's view that people that didn't get a chance to do that. Like I want you to understand like, Jordan Love's all in.

And you can tell, like, he's more focused than ever. He's got a confidence about him that I really like. Like, those young receivers that stepped up. They were for all first, second year guys. Like, they're going to get better as it goes on. I think LaFleur is a season one on, understood what Jordan Love wanted to do on offense. And then obviously, a new defensive coordinator, right? And in a very winnable division with the Lions.

Like, those are the top two guys. And for Green Bay to get so close and to, to falter on a Jordan Love interception in San Fran. Like to me, it's a, it's a whole other set of focus. Because if you rewind back a year, everyone that was talking about Jordan Love was talking about what can he do. You don't know what he can do. Is he going to prove himself?

You know what he can do now and you know what's expected. And I think that's going to take his game to another level. If you were Green Bay and you look at the construction of that roster, especially the construction of the offensive roster, A lot of young, promising pieces. If they wanted to, they could bring most of their offensive line back, even after moving on for Bakhtiari. If you were Brian Gunst and Matt Leflufluor and you were thinking of what pieces you needed to add to kind of take this thing into the new era, the next stage of it, what would that be for you? I think you just sure up the offensive line, right?

Like David Bakhtiara, you don't know what's going to happen. I think when you have a young playmaking group of receivers like they have, right, maybe add a veteran guy in, in free agency that's a middle level guy that's a leader guy just to help with that room obviously their tight end got hurt like I'm always for as a quarterback like when stuff's hard I try to find a tight in like add another tight in if you need to right and I think that um you know the running game Aaron Jones and Dylan like I I'm not sure they're a contract situation but so AJ Dylan is set to hit free agency but Aaron Jones will be back and Aaron Jones has shown that if healthy still's got it like he really does.

And it's going to be interesting. So I would probably go with offensive line. It seems like they're pretty set. Like they really liked their depth. If you add another receiver in there, though, like a true speed type guy. I know they got Jayden Reed who balled out. But I think something like that in a veteran status

would be really good for Jordan. Yeah, they're set up very, very well. Any other team you wanted to mention before we move on? Chargers. Yeah. I mean, like to me, that's like, yeah, it's like Cowboys Chargers. fact like the charges and we just had um on on my other podcast I do we just had

Justin Herbert on he spoke for 28 minutes and I don't know if I've ever seen a conversation that's 28 minutes long in length on the internet so I was like oh he just kept talking and you could just tell like he is a lot more confident like he's fully healthy his fingers are good he's fully healthy what is that offense going to look like that's what I want to know like and who is going to be RB1 and RB2. It doesn't seem from talking with Austin Echler that he's probably going to be back there. It does not seem like that. And so you know what Harbaugh wants to do.

He wants to run the football. Greg Roman obviously O.C. But when you have a guy like Justin Herbert, you got to be able to get a deep threat. And that's something they've lacked. And they're so far over the cap. And you heard the GM talking today, or maybe yesterday, And just like, we got to make some moves. It's Khalil Mack.

It's Joey Bosa. It's Mike Williams. It's Keenan Allen. All those guys have over $20 million cap hits. So to me, it is one of those things. Like, you've got to figure out if you want to fire sell it. If you want to go young, if you want to keep a guy or two and build around it, which you have Justin Herbert, you have Rishon Slater.

And then, oh, by the way, the draft in your draft in five, do you take a Malik neighbors? Yes, I think you should. Or do you do a Joe Alt at right tackle and secure it for the next. decade. That to me is something that's going to be interesting to see on this new regime here with like building blocks of Herbert and Rishan Slater and Derwin James, which are three really good building blocks in my opinion. What are you going to do? Can you do enough in the off season to get to that next level? I said this yesterday. To me, New England is the most interesting team just because we know so little about the direction that they could take with new people in place. But the other team

I would be paying attention to their first few moves just because I think those moves are going to tell us a lot about the people in charge, their values, their vision. The chargers are right in that conversation to me because we have absolutely no idea how Jim Harbaugh, Joe Hortiz, and everyone else that's in charge there sees their roster, their timeline, who the building blocks are, what the priorities are. I cannot wait to see the first three or four moves from that group because I think they're going to tell us a lot about what this era of Chargers football is going to look like. Totally agree.

I couldn't agree more. Let's chat about some of the news from today outside of the press conferences that have happened with the coaches and the GMs. The franchise tag window very much in play. T. Higgins has already been tagged a couple other guys in the news. It sounds like the chiefs are prepared to tag Ligeria Sneed and have given his people permission to seek out a trade if they cannot come to a long-term extension. Sounds like Justin Matabika is going to get the franchise tag from the Ravens if they can't come to any sort of agreement.

I wanted to ask you about the tag, not as it relates to those specific players, but on a more general level. You worked closely with the NFLPA for years. You've had to think about this stuff in terms of what battles you guys wanted to fight, what was in a priority, what wasn't. How do players and how does the players' union feel about the franchise tag as a mechanism? Yeah, I mean, they hate it. I mean, they hate it, right? It's like, it's like, it's one of those things that, um, allows teams to hold a guy at a set rate, which might not be the top top of the market, which if you are a leguracy, I think you're going to get top top of the market cornerback money. Um, and it locks you into a deal that is very, it's difficult because you can get hurt. You can get hurt on this on this one year deal, right? It's a one year deal. It's a one year deal. It's all guaranteed. I get it. But nowadays, that's the free agency thing. I think in 92 or 93, when the union was able to get free agency, right, it was like a big deal.

So you take Kurt Cousins, he's been tagged twice. He couldn't get to free agency in Washington fast enough because it was a six years of fully, like he got his, he got his contract in Minnesota, his seventh year in. So it just holds guys back. Like, like people don't like it at all. I know the top tier players that want to. set the market and reset the market, it's very difficult for them to do because it's a mechanism that teams use. Now, well, why don't the union and the NFL management council, why don't they go in and talk about it and negotiate it and just get rid of it? Well, if you really think about it,

the percentage of guys that it affects are so little that you as a player and as a true strong union of 32 voting reps, it might affect like half of a percent of your union. And so if you want to give up something to get rid of a franchise tag, which is rarely used, I say rarely, it's not used a ton. It's used on a, I mean, it's used on a very, very, very, very small percentage of players. Let's say it's used five or six times in a given year. How many members of the players union are there? Yeah. There's, I mean, 1700, right? Or no, there's more than that. there's 2,400, something like that, which is, so five of 2400 is not a very large percentage. And it's such a good way for teams to hold these star players back from hitting the market.

And it just doesn't affect that. And I think that's probably why I know that's why, because I was a voting rep for eight years. That's why, yeah, it sucks. Yeah, we hate it. Yeah, I think there's different ways you could probably get around it. But we don't want to give up other things to get something that affects five guys a year. So give me an example. of that. What is something else that became a concession or became something that was worth fighting

for in the previous CBA that is the reason something like the franchise tag just isn't worth touching in those negotiations? Well, I mean, I think you look at something like as easy as an offseason schedule. Like what does the offseason schedule look like for players? And they're even starting talks in the union with my people in there now about potentially changing the off season again, would have to be collectively bargain, but it would be something like, hey, go four weeks before training camp, give them the whole season off, like stuff like that, because it's a big deal to the owners. So for them, they would need significant, like, pushback and give back on it. And honestly, like, I played under three salary cap, or I played under three CBAs.

So the 2009 one, I played an uncapped year in 10. I played 11 through 21, and I played 22 and 23. so I played under three different CBAs. And every talk, it comes up, but it's just like, well, like, what are we willing to give up? And quite honestly, it's something as easy as like off-season. Okay, we'll go one more week of off-season. It's like we don't want to give up enough to get it. And so then talks are never really, they just stall out. Like, it's never progressed to the point to where like something like that could happen.

So I'm curious, what things were left on the table of the last CBA that you think shouldn't have been? were there things that you were a bigger proponent of tweaking or changing that ultimately did not get changed that you think should be on the union's mind when those negotiations start again in I guess four or five years? Yeah, the funding rule. I think it's the biggest crock of crap that the players deal with and the owners hide behind if I'm being completely honest. And so the funding rule out there for people who don't know, the funding rule, I don't even

know what year it was in. But it's a way for owners to get around fully guaranteeing contracts. So the funding rule is you have to put, uh, as soon as you say, say Justin Jefferson. Let's just take him. And he's signing a three year, I don't know, $115 million deal or whatever, whatever it is. Like, I don't know. I don't know. What's 35 times three? It's, uh, 115. 115. Yeah. Yeah. Well, 105. I was right. One of five. One of five. Three times three. 35, one of five. Yeah, there you go. And so if you take $105 million and say you're guaranteeing,

this is just, this is just to explain to people. Say you're guaranteeing 80 million of the $105 million that Justin Jefferson got. The second that that contract is signed, the owner for the Minnesota Vikings has to put the $80 million into escrow. So they have to take $80 million out of their bank account, and they have to put it in escrow. And so it's a way that, like, this is why people cannot get guaranteed contracts. So, like, and only few have, like Deshaun Watson, when you got that $250 million plus contract,

the owners of the Browns, they put $250 million plus in a separate account that is no longer theirs, that is mediated by the NFL. So, like, that to me is a thing that I think as players, if we got rid of that rule, and people agree, people agree, it was just sort of a, non-starter for the league because it's their one way. If you got rid of that rule, I think you would see more players get guaranteed contracts. Because owners do not want to take money out of their pockets today and put it in a separate bank account, which is no longer theirs, to pay for a player today.

And you only have to do what's guaranteed. You don't have to do the full contract. My understanding as to how that rule even came into play in the first place is that this is from an era where teams were really concerned about like making payroll. You had to have actual mechanisms in place to make sure that this fledgling league could pay the players. It doesn't seem like that's a concern anymore. At least to my untrained eye, it seems like all these teams are probably making enough money where we're not going to have worries about making payroll.

So it's just such an arcane rule that feels like exactly like you said is just a very simple, easy way for these teams to create excuses around warning those fully guaranteed deals. Yeah, and every time we brought it up in union stuff, and it's just like, well, we're trying, but like these owners are really like sticking out. Well, of course they're sticking down. It's their way to get away from paying like guaranteed contracts. So, yeah, I mean, I have been the biggest proponent of getting rid of that for 10 years. Things that did happen, things that have changed from CBA to CBA. We've never really talked about this stuff. And that's why I wanted to linger on it a little bit.

What do you think was the most important change from the second CBA that you played under to the most recent one? as a player day to day. Oh my gosh. I mean, just like working conditions. I think when we went like mainly training camp rules, I feel like that was so long ago when I was sitting in those meetings. Like I feel like obviously getting bigger piece of the pie, right? Like getting a bigger piece of that.

The one thing I think we also left out is like, you know, the gambling stuff is I think very up in the air still. Like the gambling money, where does that bucket fall within the union? And do we get a piece of that pie? I think that's something they need to start figuring out pretty quickly. But I think just the working conditions that players are. I mean, shoot, dude, when I was in like 2009, I believe there were still two days. Like, I believe we were still like going out twice a day, not in full pads, but it was like

legit two practices. And I think that has changed a lot. I think the structure of the off season has completely changed a lot when we went to phases of one, two, and three. Like that, to me, obviously other. than the money piece of the pie, which the players want to share as much as humanly possible, right? I mean, that makes complete sense to me. It's the working conditions that you see day to day. And I do think it's gotten better. I think we've left some on the table. But I think that given the

circumstances of each deal, each deal is so different. And quite honestly, like, who has the most leverage, right? Like that is of any deal that gets done. What leverage do you have? Prove it to me. Like, Like, you know, our players, I always tell myself when I was a voting rep, if there's something that I'm willing to die for on the hill, are the rest of my team willing to do the same? And I have to vote for that. But ultimately, is my team willing to strike? Because that is the only way you are going to see change if something that the union really wants. Are you willing to go on a strike? And quite honestly, the majority of players are not because they need that paycheck. Yeah. They need that paycheck.

And that has been the biggest, that's been the most difficult challenge, I think, for the union moving forward is you're trying to make this change. And a lot of people do agree at the union. But ultimately, like we've talked about, and I'm sure you've heard this, trying to change the off-season program to where there's really just like nothing. Like guys in general hate the off-season program. And I know it's voluntary, but like, let's be real. Yeah.

It's really not for 95% of the guys. Like, like, you're, you're trying to get a heads up. And we went to war with that. And I just remember, like, when we went to the negotiating table for that, it was just like, well, okay, let's have here. It was somebody on the floor of a union meeting. Like, all right, let's have all 32 starting quarterbacks not show up. And I'm like, you think all 32. starting courts aren't going to show up and you think that's going to give us leverage. Like it was a good

idea at time. But then when you started thinking about it and talking about it, it was like, well, that didn't really make sense. So what makes sense is, well, if games aren't played, if owners are losing money in the stands, if owners are losing money in concessions, if there's half of a season, can you pay our guys enough to not crawl back to the negotiating table? That's the biggest deal. It's like most guys want to work because they want the money. Right. And I think there's a few people and more than a few that are on the opposite side of that. Yeah, and when you have 2,400 people that you're trying to get to move in the same direction, it's really, really difficult for everyone to be in lockstep with those sort of seismic decisions that have to be made.

Let's change gears here a little bit. Let's talk about what we're here in Indy to discuss, and that is the first wave of NFL draft conversations, NFL draft coverage. I'm sure that you are slowly digging into this here for the work that you're doing for your YouTube channel, on the phone network, everything. What are your initial impressions of this group of quarterbacks as you have begun to study them? Very top heavy, in my opinion. I would say the top five or six guys are probably, if you put them at the top,

they're probably the deepest top five or six guys that we've seen in quite some time. And I, like, obviously, like I start with Caleb Williams. And I do think that just the more I hear, the more that, you know, Ryan pulls talks, it's like, all right, they're going to trade Justin Fields. Like, I think they should keep them. We're not going to get into that, but I think they should keep up Justin Fields. But you're probably going to move on. You have come to understand that it's probably not going to happen.

I get it. I mean, yeah, I mean, I would say it's like 95% chance not going to happen. And they're going to draft Caleb Williams. And when I'm talking Caleb Williams and watching and, you know, I've watched three to five games on each of these guys. So not a ton of film because it's still really early in the process, but automatically the thing that that I understand that Caleb William does better than anyone is his arm strength and his pocket awareness like it is it is so good like like it like it like it is some of the best

I've seen in a long time coming out and that's a big deal but I also think the escapeability factor and the broken play potential like Patrick Mahomes I think that's really good but but I want to see him run an NFL offense like very rarely do you. you see him go through progressions. Now he does it, but like one, two, not there to take off run, which is fine. Do you think that says more about him or do you think that says more about USC's offense over the last couple years? USC's offensive line this past year was really bad.

So I think that probably says a lot about him. He's got to figure out this fumbling issue. It's a big deal. Only through five interceptions, three against Notre Dame. So he protects the football when throwing the football pocket is not. I just think sometimes it can be a crutch when you know in the back of your head that you can just escape

and make these amazing, crazy off platform throws. It can almost be a crutch because you're like, I'll just do that every time. Well, these NFL guys they don't want that every time. And they're like, well, look at my homes.

Yeah, my home throws in pocket way more than you probably think. So I just think you need to learn to play with in the office. It's just like, well, I should just hit it in one shot every time. If I could just run around for eight seconds and throw a 50 yard touchdown every single play,

I should just do that every time. Yeah, yeah. And I just think, you know, with him, the biggest thing is just like play within the offense and that sort of hero ball mentality that he has, like having to feel like he has to make every play it every time. Like probably because of the USC offense, right? And they didn't have a lot of great weapons, especially this past year. When you get an NFL team, if you're in the right system with the right coach, you're going to do just fine. Let's remove the Justin Fields part of this equation. Let's say Justin Fields doesn't exist for our purposes right now. if you had the number one overall pick and you needed a quarterback, would you feel comfortable taking Caleb Williams? Yeah.

I mean, yeah. The reason I made that is this is going to be a super unpopular opinion, but I really like Jaden Daniels. Like, I think that he's like Caleb Williams is probably probably the better prospect and better long-term answer. But the more I watch Jaden Williams, it's just like, man, this kid can flat out play. but yeah, I would be, I'd be fine with taking Caleb Williams. Like I think he's the safest bet probably for, for this class. But then you look at Jaden Williams.

Like I think, Jane Daniels. Yeah, Jane Daniels. Sorry. Yeah, I said it correct the first time. Jane Daniels for me, like commanders, like Cliff Kingsbury, like Kyle and Murray, like, let's go, right? Like it makes all the sense in the world to me. Like when I start watching him, I'm like, know what he does athletically.

So I'm inclined to be like, all right, he's probably going to take off a lot more. The dude throws from within the pocket quite a bit. Now he's got an insane offensive line. Yeah, he's throwing the two first round receivers, Brian Thomas Jr. and Malik neighbors, which I think the charges should take because he's a, he's a beast. But when you look at it, like he's got an insane arm. Like the ball jumps out of his hand. And I think for me, that was what really stood out because I wasn't sure what to expect. And obviously, like I watched the Florida game. The dude ran for like 250 some yards like in that game, which is insane. like breakaway speed. So he's a really unique combination of both pocket passer,

but can get out of the pocket and run plus runner. And I think nowadays, that's what these offensive coordinator types want. Like, that's what like needs to happen. And I think he doesn't. He's like obviously from his time at ASU. He's extremely accurate. This past year completed 70, almost 73% of his passes. I just think he's a little skinny. Like I think he takes too many hits. He's got to learn to get down. He's got to learn to not be able to, at this next level, as you know, it's going to get crazy. Yeah, he looked like a crash test on me in some of the clips that I've seen and that's probably not going to be the best approach against NFL

defenses. Is there a big gap between, okay, let's tier it. Do you think that Caleb Williams and James and Jane Daniels are in the same tier of prospect? No, no. So the tier is like the top three, which includes Drake May and Jane Daniels and Caleb Williams, right? Top three. You have top three. Then you have Caleb above them. Just enough. Just enough. But then I think the Jane Daniels, Drake May can't go back and forth. So those two are close to you.

So you think that William separates himself a little bit and the other two are kind of on the same line. Yeah. And then the other three, right, Bo Nix, J.J. McCarthy and Pennix Jr. are below. And I think that there is a pretty decent gap between the top three and the bottom three. So how do you feel like your Drake May thoughts align with what have been sort of the consensus draft community Drake May thoughts? Do you see a lot of the same things that other people have seen and said? Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, look, I, so like my first year doing this, it's very easy for me to just look online and be like, all right, here's what these people think. And let me form my opinion of that. I didn't want to do that. I don't know exactly what Drake May is being said, although I've talked to, some offensive coordinators that really like them. Big, strong dude, doesn't have a lot of experience.

It seems like half of their offense at UNC is just him scrambling up the middle of the field. I think that there's some Justin Herbert to him. Maybe it's just the number, but he's big, he's strong, not as big as Justin can sling it. The arm strength stands out the like make a broken play work with the left-handed throwovers, Georgia Tech. Like that to me is like really good stuff to have. I just want to see him operate within the offense. Like he gets out of the pocket little early at times. I feel like you could say that about everybody at this level because it's like,

all right, hey, I can use my legs and run. And he's got a little bit of a gunslinger mentality, which can be good, can be bad. He's got to be able to hone that in a little bit. But I think that,

I mean, like I wouldn't be surprised if quarterbacks go one, two, and three in this draft. Like Patriots to me need a, need a guy. So that was going to be my next question. Would you be comfortable with quarterbacks going one, two, and three? You think all three of these guys are worth top three picks in this draft specifically? Yeah, I do. I do.

I do. And look, the more you watch them and I'm going to dig in really this weekend. And really, it's like, all right, it's a combine. It's just a start of the evaluation process. Like I've talked to three separate offensive coordinators this week for teams. They've just started watching. Like last week, these guys. So it's a long process. And I think guys that do this for a living, they've been watching them for a long time, like these draft experts, which I think is great. Like I think we need people like that. But I think when you start watching it and over time you get your opinion. And so that's just how I am right. And just now getting started on it. So let's talk about the second tier, guys. Do you have a favorite among that group that's maybe one step down from the top three? Yeah. I mean, once again, like,

I haven't read, but I know that people aren't in love with Bo Nix. I like Bo Nix, man. Like, like he played a ton of football at Auburn, probably the most mature guy coming out in terms of like how he started at Auburn to how he is at Oregon. And listen, I get it. And I had NFL research looked this up because I wanted to know. And I saw it in like two or three games that I've watched. Like 30% of his passes are at or behind the line of scrimmage. So there's there's that stat wise thing that you're like, okay, can you throw it? But he's a super highly, productive player. Everything that I've read or heard, like teammates love them. And there's something to be said about experience and been playing a lot. Like he's an older dude. And it just looks easy for him

to throw it and to move around. And I think that's, I think that's good. I think that's something you can say like, hey, you know, you look at your time at Auburn and you go to your time at Oregon, the dude's matured and the dude's gotten better every single year. And I think that's something to be said about that. Putting you on the spot here, but just, I'm just curious. If you had all these guys, right, like any quarterback in this draft, and you could ask one question that you would want to know the answer to after going back and watching that film and needing some context, what would it be? Man, that's a great question.

So one question I could ask these guys from watching it. Whether there was something about like the USC offense or something about the UNC offense or just something that, it's like, man, I wish I had a little bit more context or information on this so I would have a clear picture of who this guy is. What would it be for you? Well, because, because that's actually a great question, because of my thoughts on Caleb Williams and Jane Daniels, and I do think Jane Daniels is creeping up in that stratosphere of Caleb Williams.

Like, that's just me personally. Like, I could be completely wrong. I have no idea. But that's just my thought is like when you watch the USC offense, like I just want to know, like the route. concepts. They don't make sense to me. Like, like, like, and I can say this for a few others. Like, when I watch Jaden Daniels, I'm like, I see NFL concepts. Yeah. Like I, I do. And when I see Drake May, I see NFL concepts. Bow Nicks, not so much. Uh, JJ McCarthy. It is an NFL offense.

Um, and so I'm, I'm having trouble evaluating Caleb on some plays or like, like, getting my thoughts together because I'm like, well, where is this ball supposed to go? And then he just gets a pocket, make some crazy play. You know, so I think that to me, I probably would ask Caleb, like, hey, tell me a little bit more about how you see this offense. Yeah. The intensive certain plays. Yeah.

And I think that's something, too. It's like, we do that sometimes in the NFL. It's like, well, I think it should have gone this way, but that's not how it's being coached. Like, I think that's ultimately like, how is this being coached? Because I want to know, I think that's probably the question. Last thing I wanted to talk to you about because you and I are not going to have a show next week so we won't be we won't have one before free agency starts i wanted your perspective just on the players involvement and the players part in free agency you've been a free agent before you've been a

free agent at different parts of your career at different stages of your career so let's go back to let's say the 2016 offseason right when you get paid by philadelphia as you're weighing your options that offseason specifically how did that free agency period unfold for you well that's a great question because I do think that's such a great point to hit before I answer that question is there are different seasons in your life as a player. Yeah. So for me, when you say 2016 off season, that's like that is my best chance to go and get a starting job or bridge job. Now, and when you go back to 2018 where I sign with the Bears, that's more like, all right, where can I go to help out a team but also get paid amount, paid enough? Just make that clear. But the 2016, offseason, I had played out my contract in KC for three years and played really well in games that I played, played really well in preseason games, which teams watch and it matters. And then when you look at it, I talked to my agent like right after season.

It was one of the few times he's like, you're going to have some, you're going to have some stuff. I was like, oh, all right, like, cool. Like, that's freaking sweet. Let's do it. And ultimately, like I said earlier in the show, it comes down to leverage, right? Like, what kind of leverage do you have? So you got to get more than one team interested. And all it takes is one. And I thought to myself that off season, like, I'm ready. Like, I'm ready if the opportunity presents itself to lead a franchise. Maybe it's for a year or two.

Maybe I fizzle out. Maybe not. But I felt mentally, physically capable of doing it. And I think that was what's really cool. And then obviously, you know, we ended up signing a three-year $21 million deal, which was like sort of a bridge contract because like, all right, they have San Bradford. You're going to be able to compete with San Bradford. And I was like, oh, awesome. So we literally just go like, I get ones one day. He gets the two is the neck or he gets ones the next day. And we just switch off. And then the whole like Carson Winst things, I'm like, oh my gosh. I'm like, are you freaking kidding me? And then they trade San Bradford way. I'm like for like half of a second. I was like, oh, maybe I'm the starter. And they're like,

now we're going to start Carson Wentz. So it was a roller coaster of emotion. Obviously set me up for success after playing in terms of money. But it is a fun way because like to go about free agency because you work in guys, I'm not just talking about myself here. I've transitioned on another guy. You work your entire life. Think about it. You play football your entire life for a chance to get to free agency. That is the biggest thing in the world is to be able to get paid in free agency. And so when your time comes, you, you want to be like selfish. You want to get all the money in the world. And I think that where you've seen some guys fizzle out is they, they worry about the money more than the fit or the team. Absolutely. And rightfully so, rightfully so, because it is the team.

But I think where I was able to have a 14 year career, we were super strategic in where we went with these teams. I followed some coaches around. Yeah, that was awesome. I went to one year. I went back to New Orleans for a year because I had all that guaranteed money and they wanted me back. Then we able to cash in again. And then we were able to cash in again in Detroit. It was very, it was very strategic with my agent on how to do it. And just like, oh, let's just go where the most money was, and I think that's why I was able to play 14 years. I mean, that makes total sense because I remember vividly, I did a story about the Packers during that 2019 season, so Matt LaFleur's first year there, which I think that's right, but it was

during his first year. And that offseason, they had been aggressive in how they've signed players. They signed Zadarius Smith. They signed Preston Smith. And I remember sitting there at Lambeau Field interviewing Preston Smith and Zadaria Smith. And I was talking to them and just talking about how they ultimately landed in Green Bay. And they very matter of factly, I think it was Zadarias said this to me. He's like, well, they offered the most money.

Like that's how I made the decision. Like my agent, I was not involved in this. My agent was talking to these teams and my agent came back to me and said, this is the best offer. We should take the best offer. Because he gets paid the most too. And that's exactly right. And with a lot of these guys, I think a lot of people wanted to be about,

listen, the NFLPA player report card came out today. They wanted to be about which facility. facility is the best or which city is the best or which coach do I want to play for for the most part that is not what is driving these decisions for the guys especially at the top of the market yeah but I do think I do think that is so because I was actually I was I was on the phone today with j. C treter who's the union president we are close and he was with me and I was just talking to him about some other things and the report card got brought up and it was just it was something that I think that players really wanted to do because while

There are few and far between these guys that get paid all this money in the world. There's a lot of guys that get paid less than a million and a half. Yes. Or they make up your core. Let's say it's close. Let's say the money is close between things. It matters. Having this information and these resources are hugely important.

Well, and it also makes, I want to say makes, it probably puts the owners in a difficult spot because they're like, because I mean, look, you saw how much press coverage it got. It was everywhere. Because it's juicy, right? Like, there are letter grades, their rankings. It's very juicy. It's a very smart thing by the union to own a news cycle for a day. Oh, 100%.

And I think like with the chiefs, because I was with the chiefs, obviously, for three years, and their facilities were like an F or like a D minus or an F or one of those. And I was like, that's really weird because I remember thinking it was awesome. But then I was like, that was 10 years ago that I was there. and they haven't made any changes. So I'm like, all right. And you saw Clark Hunt today come out like, yeah, we're going to make some change it. So I just think it spurs action and it pokes like the bear a little.

And look, it's the union stealing the whole full day the day before the combine. So everyone's paying attention. Everyone's doing it. Very strategic by them. You said you were strategic in some of the decisions you made later. Can you just give me an example, something that was a consideration for how you decided between some of these teams later in your career that maybe would be surprised. to people. Yeah, I mean, honestly, at the end of my career, it really wasn't about money. It was being close to family and it was being in a team and a coach that I had played for and somebody that had

a chance at making the playoffs and a run for it. And that leads me to the to the chargers, right? Like, I didn't make a ton of money at the chargers. That wasn't at the forefront of my mind. But the chargers were 55 miles up the road from our Forever House in San Diego. And my family was so sick and tired. of moving around the country. We had three kids. My wife was like, look, I'm staying here. You go sign wherever you want. We'll support you.

I'm like, ha, that ain't happened. And there were some other deals on the table that were a little bit more. But I'm like, this makes a lot sense. Joe Lombardi. I played with Brandon Saly when he was a linebacker's coach for Chicago. All that came into it. So I think that being close to here was a huge advantage for me. Yeah, it's, well, you mentioning the life changing amounts of money that guys are going to make.

I think it's important to remember that at this stage. A guy, let's start out an example. Cam Curl, right? Cam Curl, I think, was a sixth round pick from Washington. On his four-year rookie deal, he averaged $800,000 a year. It's a ton of money, right? It would be a life-changing amount of money to everyone. But, you know, you pay your agents.

I'm sure you had to place some things out of pocket early on in your career. Taxes. And, you know, everything. There's so many different things to worry about. On his next deal, I assume he's going to get paid. let's say between $8 to $10 million a year. Which is crazy. That is a 1,000% raise per year on what he is currently making.

And when you think about it in those terms for guys who have worked their entire career to this moment, it's pretty fucking cool. It's pretty fucking cool to be in that position. Even if you think $800,000 a year is a lot, and God damn it is. But to go from that to 10 times that based on the quality of your work, and the culmination of an entire life's work. Life time. That's what people don't understand. It's a lifetime from his parents teaching him and coaching him, I'm sure,

and being a part of high school, you're working toward this. So many people don't even make the pros to be. I'm getting goosebumps because it is because I understand what he's going through. This, yeah, he made good money. This is life-changing generational type money that he had to work his ass off for every single day of his life. and he's going to get it. It's cool, man. Yeah, I totally agree. I wanted to look up what PFF thought for his, because PFF actually, Brad Spielberger, PFF does a very, very good job of figuring out what guys are going to make,

essentially like figuring out their market. He's very accurate with it. He does a lot of work with agents and just trying to get that to the right number. So, okay, even better. Cam Curl's projected deal from PFF is four years, $50 million at $12.5 million a year after making 800 grand for the last four years. That's cool, man. That is not a bad place to reach. So definitely worth watching for all these guys as we get to a pivotal point,

not only in their careers, but in their lives. Chase Daniel, thank you very much, sir. Always great to chat with you. You are on vacation next week. Congratulations on that. You enjoy yourself. We will be chat with you very soon. And to everybody else,

sincerely appreciate you listening, like we mentioned. Me and Nate, we're back on the feed yesterday. talking about our most interesting teams of the offseason. Please go check that out. I will be chatting with Diana on this feed on Friday's show. We're doing a little combine scuttlebutt. Diana's combine is a little bit different than a lot of our combines are. So, no doubt.

Very excited about that. Please come back and check that out for now. That's all we got. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you soon. This was the Athletic Football Show.