The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Keefer and the Beats: A Week 1 focus on new quarterback and coach pairings

Episode Date: September 12, 2023

In the first edition of Keefer and the Beats, national NFL writer Zak Keefer welcomes Falcons beat writer Josh Kendall, Packers beat writer Matt Scheidman and Broncos beat writer Nick Kosimider to discuss their teams' Week 1 games. The conversation, as you might imagine, focuses on new coach and quarterback pairings.Subscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTubeThis episode is sponsored by LinkedIn. Right now, you can try LinkedIn Sales Navigator and get a sixty-day free trial at linkedin.com/MAYS23.This episode is sponsored by Sleep Number®: Save $400 on the New Sleep Number® c4 smart bed. Plus, special financing for a limited time. Only at Sleep Number® stores or sleepnumber.com. Sleep Number. The Official Sleep and Wellness Partner of the National Football League. See store for details. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Football Show. Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. This is not Robert Mays. This is Zach Kiefer. If you're wondering why you're hearing my voice and not Roberts, we're trying something a little bit different this season. I'll be hosting the show once a week, recording on Mondays, posting on Tuesday mornings,

and we're going to do something really cool, what I think is going to be really informative, really insightful for the listener. We're going to have three of our athletic beat riders on every week digging into the games that Robert and Nate don't really have a chance to get to during their Sunday night show. A lot of times beat riders come with the best perspective. You know, maybe I'm a little biased. I was a beat writer for nine years covering the Indianapolis Colts.

But beat riders are the ones that are at the stadium in the locker room in the press game, in the press conferences after the game with the coaches and the quarterbacks. They're the ones that can take us where a lot of the TV cameras can't. They see what we don't. They hear what we don't. And these are the guys and the girls that know these teams the best. They've been with them every day from July 25th or whatever training camp started until the end of the season in January. So they know the players.

They know the coaches. They know these teams in and out. And their perspectives are invaluable. And so what we're going to do is tap into those perspectives, that insight, that information, and get their take on the games that we all watched on Sundays. If you recognize my voice from this feed, I've been on it a couple times before with Robert. And I also hosted a six-part narrative podcast series on this feed. about Andrew Luck's career, which came out last July. So really pumped to be doing this. It's going to be a lot of fun. I really believe that beat riders know teams the best.

So that's what we're going to do. We're going to focus on three beat riders every week, talking about the games that maybe Robert or Nate didn't have the time to get into. We had an awesome week one in the NFL. I imagine Detroit is still buzzing from their Thursday night win in Kansas City. The 49ers absolutely flexed their muscle yesterday in Pittsburgh. The Dallas Cowboys did the same thing in the Meadowlands. against the Giants. But for this one, for this first week, we're going to dig into what I think is the most interesting quarterback coach pairing in the league right now.

That's in Denver. The Broncos lost 17 to 16 to the Raiders. We'll dig into that game and everything we saw from Russell Wilson with Nick Cosmiter. We'll jump into Green Bay and Jordan Love's debut with Matt Schneidman. They beat the Bears badly in Chicago in a game that looked a lot like a lot of Packers games over the Bears have in the last couple of years. This was different, different quarterback. The result was very similar.

And then lastly, we'll talk to Josh Kendall in Atlanta, who watched maybe Nate Tice's favorite team in the league. The Atlanta Falcons beat the Panthers and Bryce Young's debut. So let's get after it. All right, to start out, let's welcome in our Falcons rider from Atlanta. Josh Kendall, you were there yesterday at Mercedes-Benz Stadium. Falcons win 24 to 10 over the Panthers. Probably wasn't as easy as maybe the final score indicated.

I want to start here because it feels like in Atlanta so much of this season is going to be a referendum on whether Desmond Ritter is the guy. And I want to go back to training camp to start. What do you see from the quarterback over the month of August with, and compare that with what you saw yesterday. Does he feel like you're getting closer to an answer or are we still, it's week one, like let's just hit the pause button? I mean, I think you're still on the pause button. You saw, yeah, what you saw in training camp looked like. like what you saw Sunday, a guy who can operate the offense, who can get everybody where they're supposed to be, make it run pretty smoothly, but is not going to carry you. I mean, he is a piece

and one of 11, and maybe even not quite a full one of 11 when you consider Bejan Robinson and Kyle Pitts and Drake London when they decide to throw them the ball. So they don't expect Desmond to be anything more than a good solid point guard. He would, he was, he, he, He was not able to be that in the first half yesterday because of the past protection, or more specifically, just the past rush from Brian Burns. But when he has second to set his feet, he kind of gets people where they're supposed to be and generally gets the ball where it's supposed to go, which is all they're expecting from him right now. I wonder if that's good enough this season because of those pieces like you mentioned.

And I want to get to Vijon in a second, but in that division, that might be good enough. Right. Exactly. And this year's NFC South with this collection around him, with the money that they were able to spend on defense, because they're not paying a lot to the quarterback and won't be for a couple more years at least, they can win the NFC South with this group with Desmond Ritterick quarterback. Then you get to the end of the year. Then they have to answer the question, if he's good, is good, good enough. Are we willing to live in this area rather than paying a lot to a guy who's not great? I mean, you pay the great guys, but if you pay decent guys great money, you get in trouble. And I think this organization and Terry Fontenone and Arthur Smith specifically really feel that. I don't think they're going to pay unless it's great at quarterback. And right now, Desmond Reader's got three or four steps to get to great, but he's good enough.

right now they believe. That's such a fascinating approach because, you know, I come from the Coltsby where I was at for a long time. And as you know, they lived on the QB carousel, paying those veteran quarterbacks through trades or free agency. One of them, a longtime Falcon and Matt Ryan, huge contracts to come in and be, for lack of a better phrase, average or worse. And so they had to pay for that.

They had to live that less than the hard way. The Falcons are just like, we're not going to gamble until we're ready. And they're just playing it slowly. but what they've done is surrounded him with some studs. Kyle Pitts had a great play yesterday. Pijon had that little shake. What did you see from the rookie? Not often do we see a running back going the top 10 in the draft.

What was he like in training camp and what did he look like Sunday compared with what you thought he would be? That was him exactly. I mean, he has just got shiftiness. Yeah. It, whatever you want to call it. I mean, he's tougher. He's tougher than you would think he would be because he's so athletic. and so quick twitch and in short tight spaces there.

He ran between the tackles well, but that's what he'd done out here. But that wiggle is why they wanted him. That wiggle in the past game. That cut back in their wide zone scheme, that's why they wanted him. And that's why, you know, when Tyler Algeria, their second year back,

who's a totally different guy, basically just a human bowling ball, he still led him in carries with 75 yards. He looked great, but they kept coming back to Bijon. and it's because of what you saw in the 11-yard touchdown catch, where he shakes one guy out of his shoes and gets through two more kind of before they even know what hit them. That's why they drafted Bejohn Robinson, and I think it's a good pick right now.

The running-back conversation gets more confusing when you get to the potentiality of a second contract. But again, Falcons will worry about Desmond Ritter and Bejohn-Robinson's second contract, kind of when they get to those bridges. right now they like the combination that they've got. First opening day win for the Falcons since 2017, which seems like forever ago. The real reason, we've talked about the offense nonstop, the real reason was the defense, was Jesse Bates, really taking Bryce Young's lunch money twice, and he had 10 tackles as well. Did you see that immediate impact for a guy they gave a big contract to in the offseason?

Right. We've talked about how the Falcons are, you know, seem to be doing things differently. they took a running back in the top 10. This offseason, they paid their right guard, Chris Lunds, him $100 million. They paid Jesse Bates, $64 million. A lot of people were potentially $64 and $100 million. You know how that works. But there are a lot of people who would tell you it is foolish to pay a guard and a safety,

that kind of money, just like it's foolish to take a running back in the top ten. Those are not the positions you pay these days. Exactly. The Falcons have said, those are the positions that we pay. And yesterday, they looked smart. Because what Jesse Bates has done is he's been a guy who has traveled this road at Cincinnati. When he got there in 2018, there was 6 and 10 his first year. And then they kind of turned the process around.

So he's seen it happen. He can sort of take that and imprint it on the younger guys here. And he fits in really well with the other veterans that they brought him. He's a smart guy. He ties everything back there. And he communicates really well. That defense was, you know, we didn't see him come after Bryce Young, a lot early. They were happy to kind of sit back and let him make a mistake. And he did. And he

made two or three. So the plan worked great and a ton of that was because of Jesse Bates. So one game in, the investment was good. Great line from, I think this is from Jeff Schultz. I read your and his story. So they gave a safety, $64 million in free agency who was next level great with two interceptions, two passes defended, a force fumble, 10 tackles, and somehow made that contract look like a group on special. You don't see a lot of big contracts for safeties, but when he wins you a game like that, you feel really good about it. Let's end on this. You were in the locker room after the game. I'm sure there was a lot of chirping. You know, it's a big division win. That's a division that's wide open. When you talk about Ritter not being

an elite quarterback, how does he fit in with his teammates? And is he a guy this team can get behind if they get a lot of mediocre Sundays from him? Yeah, they like him. They like his leadership. He does not think that he is a first round draft pick. He does not think that he's the guy who's carrying this team. But, you know, he also doesn't take a lot of crap from them or anybody else. He's got a hard edge. That's a delicate line to walk if you're a young quarterback. Right. And that Arthur Smith was really drawn to. That's part of the reason he liked him. And his teammates respect that. He has not gone over the line. You do not see Desmond Ritter saying, you know, this is my team. You see.

see Desmond Ritter saying, this is my job. This is what I'm going to go out there and do. And, you know, holding people accountable, giving people the opportunity to come alongside him and holding them accountable to some degree when they don't. But, you know, if you were going to say, it's not like this is Desmond Ritter's team. They like him, they like his leadership, but he's not the guy. And he's comfortable not being the guy right now. Do you learn anything yesterday that you didn't know about this team? No, it all looked pretty similar. I was a little surprised that the defense looked as sound as it did in week one,

because they've got six new starters. But again, we roll that back to, you know, Jesse Bates' impact. The pass blocking was not great. Again, we've seen that. The run blocking was really good and more of the Panthers down eventually. We've seen that. And then Drake London and Kyle Pitts getting three targets, you know, between them, maybe four targets, two catches, two catches totally.

total. That's this offense. People keep banging their head against the Kyle Pitts and Drake London wall screaming about why the Falcons don't get them the ball. And at some point, they'll get the ball more. At some point, folks are going to have to understand this is Atlanta's offense. They gained 221 yards less yesterday. They were fine with that. I mean, they're going to be super patient. They're going to try to control the ball. They are not going to put the ball in harm's way. Maybe the most interesting thing that anybody said yesterday was Jesse Bates when he was talking about,

he was asked to compare Bryce Young and Desmond Ritter. And he said, Bryce Young is going to be great. He said, but Desmond didn't turn the ball over. Desmond didn't put us in any bad situations. And that's the most important thing a quarterback can do. Desmond Ritter still has not thrown an interception through five career starts. So this is what Atlanta wants to be. and fantasy football managers don't love it slash really, really hate it.

But this is what the Falcons are going to be. There's some conviction in that. I like that because, like you said, with rookie quarterbacks, oftentimes it's them losing the game as opposed to them winning the game for their team. And like you said, Jesse Bates pointed this out about Bryce Young. He likes to throw the ball in the inside hashes. Both of them were two-by-two formations. Bates knew what was coming.

The interceptions came in the same part of the field, right? I mean, he knew what was coming. He just waited on them. And they didn't have a lot of juice on those throws either. I will leave you with this, Josh. Does this opening day win against a pretty mediocre to less than that, Carolina Panthers team, change your view on the Falcons moving forward? Or does it, like you said a minute ago, just reaffirmation of what Ritter is and what the offense is going to look like and what they're going to have to do this season to win these games against the teams without the firepower that some of the others do? Yeah, I think it was just what we expected to see.

I thought this team was capable of winning the NFC South because it's this NFC South coming in. And that's how they're going to have to do it by being really patient, by not turning the ball over, by winning the turnover battle. And they're going to have to go out and do it again nine more times, 10 more times, and that probably puts them in the playoffs, which is a big step forward for this team. Awesome.

Thanks, Josh. Thanks for catching up. We'll catch up you down the line. Thanks for having me. All right. Packers 38, Bears 20. Matt, I didn't watch the game. I was covering Colts Jaguars. Tell me this was another Packers Bears game just with different quarterbacks

because it felt and looked and sounded like it was the same thing you've covered for like five years now. It seemed like it, you know, this is my fifth season covering the Packers. And the Packers are 9-0 in games against the Bears that I've covered. Listen, the Packers tried their best to let the Bears back in. this game in the third quarter. They were only up 10-6 at halftime. It was an ugly first half outside their first scoring drive. A couple unnecessary roughness penalties.

The Bears cut it to 10 at 24-14 and then had the Packers on a third and three, and then a false start pushed it to third and eight. Then the Packers had an 18-yard completion on that third and eight, and it was easy from there. And Bears fans were filing for the exits with about 13 minutes left in the game. So I think there's a feeling among Bears. fans that same as it ever was. Now, I'm not ready to crown Jordan Love with the next Hall of Fame quarterback, but he certainly looked pretty good yesterday. Gosh, Bears fans have to be crushed.

They finally get rid of Aaron Rogers. They get Justin Fields all these weapons, and then they look like that. Now, this is not a Bears podcast, but let's go back to camp. You're there every day in Green Bay. You live the Aaron Rogers era, the end of it, for sure. What did Jordan Love look like every day? Was he better, worse than you thought? How did he handle this? Because it feels like the Packers, and you wrote about this, were kind of under the radar for the first time in like a decade. Yeah, Zach, you've been doing this a long time.

So you know that the most overused cliche in sports is, oh, we were overlooked. We were underrated. I think the Georgia Bulldogs, after they won the national championship, said everyone thought we were going to go seven and five. No. I love the undefeated team who won last year says we were overlooked. Right.

The Packers haven't been able to use that chip. on their shoulder for the past 15 years because of who they've had at quarterback. And they had a legitimate case to use that as motivation this year. Look, Jordan Love wasn't perfect in camp, but there was definitely more good than bad. A theme we saw both in preseason games and in practice was he would get off to a slow start. You know, he would throw an interception or miss a guy deep or underthrow a deep ball. But then he would respond and play really well for the rest of practice or the rest of whatever series he had left in preseason game.

So going into yesterday, I was thinking, you know, Is this going to be the same thing or is he going to get off to a fast start? Packers forced to turn over on downs and Bears territory on the first drive of the season. Jordan Love on a short field goes down and with the help of a couple nice Aaron Jones runs, leads a touchdown drive. He didn't really have many areas of weakness. There were a couple plays where the communication or execution needs to be better and that's expected. This is a brand new offense.

You're going to expect them to go through some growing pains. But it was better than what I saw in camp. granted, it's against, you know, the Bears who had the first pick last year. People forget that because they traded out of it. Correct. That's a good point. The NFL last year for a reason. But even with, you know, a couple off-season additions like Tremaine Edmonds and T.J. Edwards, you know, they're still not very good.

But I was impressed with what I saw from Jordan Love in his first real test as the official QB won, his second career start. You know, his first start came on a COVID-shortened week when Aaron Rogers tested positive. And Jordan Love had to go into Arrowhead on short notice. and did not play very well. Yesterday was a lot better. You said they rebuilt the offense, brand new offense. They just scrapped everything they had built around Rogers and redesigned it, how?

Yeah, it's pretty much just the makeup of the guys. In terms of scheme and, you know, whatnot, we'll see how that all plays out. I mean, they ran a triple off on the second play of the season yesterday, which I never saw. It was a terrible fight. They should never run it again because they got their rookie receiver jacked up. But, you know, they let Robert Tunyon walk.

They let Randall Cobb walk, Mercedes-Lewis, Alan Lazard, Aaron Rogers, they obviously traded, a lot of veterans. And they replaced them with Luke Musgrave and Tucker Kraft, the tight ends they drafted in the second and third round. Christian Watson and Romeo Dobbs are the most experienced receivers in the room and they're only in their second. Watson didn't even play yesterday. He didn't play yesterday. He's their number one guy. Jaden Reed, the slot receiver from Michigan State, who they drafted in the second round. The constants are the two running backs, Aaron Jones and AJ Dillon.

and then a very experienced and dominant offensive line, at least they were yesterday. But Brian Gutakunz made a point this offseason to say, you know what, we're not bringing in veteran tight end help. We're not bringing in veteran wide receiver help. We're going to let the young guys figure it out. They're going to sink or swim. And I've always thought, you know,

the Packers' offense is playing with House Money this year. If they can win games and succeed while letting these guys grow for 2024 and beyond, all the better for them. But they came into this season with a specific, you know, goal of keeping this young core together, not taking any snaps away from them with veteran pass catchers and seeing what happens. And it worked out well yesterday. They scored, offense scored 31 yesterday. They had a pick 6, so 38.

But a good first step for sure. Yeah, we'll learn more about them when they play a real team. Right. I want to ask you about this. So when you're a beat reporter, you know if a quarterback's a real dude. You can see that in the locker room. And I covered a million quarterbacks the last five years in Indianapolis because they couldn't keep one for more than two years. The predecessor being Andrew Luck, who was just always a dude, you could just tell, like, no matter who the offensive lineman was, they had his back.

And that was different as the quarterbacks progressed the last couple of years. Some guys, they just weren't behind. How was the locker room embraced or made this transition with Jordan Love, who's just got to be, in my opinion, a totally different personality than that. Aaron Rogers. And also, when you're walking in the footsteps of a Hall of Famer, it's just, it's just different when that locker's gone, right? When the 12 is gone. Like, it's just got to be a different feel. How has Love managed that? Because that's so important if the locker room believes in him. Without a doubt, personality perspective, I'll touch on that first. There's no better personality unless, you know, you don't like watching the Pat McAfee show, which I know we're both

fans of Pat. There's no better personality to cover in terms of transparency, insightfulness, honesty than Aaron Rogers. Not only does he, you know, take time with reporters off to the side after every Wednesday group interview. Oh, that's gold for reporters. Absolutely. But he takes time to get to know you. He gives fantastic answers. Jordan hasn't really come out of his shell yet in that regard. And I'm not saying, you know, hating on him for that. You're probably not going to want to to express too much, especially when you haven't done anything in the league yet. The smart ones got to prove it, and they know that.

You got to prove it on the field first. Of course. But in terms of the guys having his back, there was a time, I don't know if it was during mini-camp or early in the preseason when Jordan Love was sitting on a table doing a group interview. And Jaira Alexander, the Packers, all-pro cornerback, jumped on his back, kind of strangled him. And intentionally, with cameras on him, said, this is my QB, QB1, best QB in the league.

And there's a video that the Packers put out yesterday of Matt LaFleur giving Jordan Love a game ball in the locker room, in the visiting locker room at Soldier Field. And the pop from the guys, the cheer for them. Like, these are guys who have this guy's back. Rishon Gary, while Jordan Love was waiting to interview with Aaron Andrews after the game, just was screaming. Like, stop messing with him. Don't play with him. And this team really has his back. I asked Jair yesterday, you know, you guys have been talking this kid up all offseason.

and what did you think of the first time he actually got to go out and do it? And Jair said, I've been telling him all along, you're the best QB in the league. It's about a manifestation thing. Whether it's true or not, they really believe in empowering this kid. And he has a lot of fans in this locker room. That's actually the wording Matt Lafleur really used yesterday. Everyone is behind Jordan Love. Because Jordan Love is almost like the forgetting guy in this whole thing with John Rogers.

Like he didn't ask for this and he had to just kind of stay quiet. And so much drama the last few years, which you have written about. and chronicled. Most interesting thing you heard or saw in the locker room yesterday. I mean, it had to be, will we just beat the shit out of the bears again? Well, yeah, it's kind of become commonplace. Rasul Douglas said earlier in the week that he's never lost to the bears in his career. You know, he's only been with the Packers since 2021.

But this new age of Packers, I don't know how much, you know, appreciation they have for the rivalry. They only have three guys on the team who predate the Brian Gutakunz era when Guadacunz took over as GM in 2018. That's David Bocciari, Aaron Jones, and Kenny Clark. So I think they still view it as a rivalry, but this has just become commonplace for the new age of Packers. The best thing I heard in the locker room, that's a good question.

You know, it's kind of a niche thing, an inside baseball thing. But the Packers ran a play where Jordan Love, I think. was supposed to do a play action fake. I'm not exactly sure. But they were just inside Bears territory. I think they were at the Bears 41-yard line. Jordan Love got the snap. And it wasn't a botched exchange.

He just let the snap slip out of his hands. Oh, I saw this highlight, yeah. Yeah, and it just goes to show how composed and calm he can be. Jordan Love said after the game, that can mess up the timing of a whole play. But he picked up the ball and off of like one foot off balance, hits Luke Musgrave, who's wide open without anyone in the same zip code for a 37-yard gain. Luke Musgrave kind of falls over himself. That sets up a touchdown.

And David Bakhtiari said after the game that they've run that play in practice a couple times. And every single time, Luke Musgrave has nobody within 20 yards of him. So David Bakhtiari, the oldest player on the team now at the ripe age of 31 years old, the five-time all-pro left tackle, was begging for them to run that play. a game. Luke Musgrave kind of starts as an inline blocker and then releases. It doesn't run a corner route, but he goes kind of diagonally toward the corner. I couldn't believe how open he was. Like you don't see that in NFL games. And that kind of just

goes to show the theme of yesterday, kind of encapsulates yesterday well that even when things didn't go well for the Packers, the fumbled snap, the tight end tripping over a blade of grass, it was still all Packers yesterday. And it was funny that David Bakhtiari said, when he heard that play called yesterday. He was like, thank God, because he had been begging for that one to be called based on how well it didn't practice. Yeah, I read that in your story, and that was a hell of a quote, because you just don't get that kind of candor from an offensive lineman that often. Well, maybe Backdiori does. Best person in the locker room. He was freaking jacked up when they called the play, and then it unfolded not perfectly, but had the big play. We'll get you out of here on

this. You know, there's so much on the line for Jordan Love this season, and we'll learn a lot about him. But it's also a lot on the line, at least perception-wise, for the head coach. Matt LaFleur. Yeah. Walked into this, 13 games won his first two seasons in Green Bay. He's won all nine games against the Bears, which is kind of ridiculous. I don't care if they're the Bears or not. What, how does Matt LaFleur approach this season with the first time he's had to really see how the other half live with a young new quarterback where you just don't walk in with the Hall of Famer because he might be one of the most interesting people in the NFL nobody's talking about because they're talking about his quarterback. But are we going to

finally find out just how good Matt LaFleur is? So it's funny because Lafleur has pushed back all offseason and preseason on the notion that we're going to see what his true offense looks like without a quarterback who rightfully so had the leeway to change and dictate things. So why is he pushing back on that? Interesting. I don't think he wants to say that Aaron had so much say over him. But if you ever want to know what's really going on inside 1265 Lombardiav, the address of Lambeau Field, put team president Mark Murphy in front of a microphone because on the first day of training camp, Mark Murphy steps to the podium and says,

I think this year we're going to find out what Matt's true offense looks like. There you go. Some of them, some execs just can't help themselves. And just speak the truth. God bless them. And you have an owner over there in Indianapolis that you know that very well. I don't know what you're talking about. Listen, I don't think the Packers are trading the Colts Christian Watson either.

Sorry. No, but you can't blame the Colts for trying. No, you can't, exactly. Listen, I think this year is a big year for Matt Lafleur because whether it's fair or not, there's the outside perception that they only did well for, you know, three out of the four years they were together because of Aaron Rogers. Now, we all know the truth is somewhere in between. all Lefleur. It's not all Rogers. It's a partnership.

But in terms of an optics perspective, you know, Matt Lafleur getting this offense to succeed with a 24-year-old first-time starting quarterback with so many young skill position players, it would do wonders for how he's perceived around the league. Like, he would never be in the coach of the year conversation. He might have been, you know, up there as a finalist once with Mike Rable, but he would never win it with Aaron Rogers as his quarterback. If the Packers make the playoffs, barring the Jacksonville Jaguar, ending like 13 games, I think he's a shoe in for coach of the year because it shows that it wasn't just Aaron Rogers.

It was Matt LaFleur, who had more to do with that. So I don't know how much inside the building he's thinking about that. I'm sure he would like to prove that. But listen, you and I both know when it comes down to the X's and O's, it's a joint effort. But from an outsider's perspective, this season is huge for Matt LaFleur to prove that he's got some gusto as a coach. wasn't just the quarterback leading him along. That's sort of the gift and the curse of walking into the situation he did. You've got this Hall of Fame quarterback.

Everyone forgets how, I don't want to say disaster it was the last year, but it wasn't good. And Aaron Rogers wasn't Aaron Rogers. And then 26 regular season victories the next two years. That's going to be the fascinating part. Whether Matt LaFleur admits it or not, there is a lot riding on him perception-wise this season. But hey, they beat the crap out of the bears.

So nothing's really changed in Green Bay, although so much. change. Thanks, Matt. Have a good one. We'll catch up with you down the season. Thanks, Zach. Absolutely. All right, let's jump in. Bronco 16, Raiders 17 with Nick Cosmiter, our Broncos beat reporter from Denver. Nick, I wanted to have you on because obviously, probably the most intriguing coach quarterback pairing of the year, at least entering this season with Russell Wilson, teaming up with Sean Payton. And Sean Payton just goes forward off the opening kickoff. That, you know, as you wrote, reminded me of a certain Super Bowl. People don't like to talk about it where I'm from in Indianapolis.

That really swung the game Colts Saints Super Bowl back in 2009. So I'm picturing you're in the press box, you're waiting for the Sean Payton air to start, and it starts off with some fireworks because they actually recovered it on the field, correct? Yeah, they did. And the crowd was going nuts. When East Sang Bassi came out of the pile with the ball, you're thinking, holy cow, he just pulled that off, first kick, you know. Like the guts and the gusto.

I mean, that's a message. It was. And it was funny because right before that, I said to somebody next to me, I'm like, watch him onside kick the first kick. You know, kind of more or less just joking around. And sure enough, he does it. You know, they practices a lot. They had seen it and built up to the film, the film preparation and build up to the game.

Right. There was an opening on that side near their own sideline with the Raiders. And it was, it was wide open. I mean, Tremont Smith, he gets it about six inches before that 10-yard line. Otherwise, they convert it. But that is even, that's the thing with those calls. Even if you have the perfect play on, the margin for error is so small, which served, I think, as a microcosm for Denver for the rest of the day.

And that's kind of what you wrote about was like their competency, competency was like way up compared to last year, which, I mean, man, I was there in week five for that Thursday night. I was just going to bring that up. I want to just forget that game. Competency did not describe that game whatsoever. I think any football fan who watch that game wants to just block that out of their mind, let alone those of us who had to stay there and write about it. Let's go back to training camp, though.

So Sean Payton comes in, Russell Wilson, everybody's talked about his struggles last year. He was straight up bad. How did training camp look and sound different with Peyton and with the quarterback? Yeah, I mean, I think part of what you saw was just, you know, situational football was so big, for Sean Payton. And that went to situations in terms of like time and score in the game. And you saw it at the end of the first half, the way that he used his timeouts on defense. I bet they were like rejoicing in Denver.

Yeah. After last year's opener, right? Yeah. And you're like last year's home opener, yeah, you brought it up. They were counting down the play clock. And here are the Broncos. They're getting up to line of scrimmage. Russell Wilson has 20 seconds left to diagnose the defense.

So from that perspective, that was a key. He says there's no way that we can get into what we want to get to if we are rushing ourselves to the line of scrimmage. So in training camp, they really put the pressure on. You know, Sean Payton would garble his own calls as they went into Russell Wilson's headset to make it, you know, make it so that they were up against him and really having to try to focus in on, okay, how do we even just get this play in, get into the huddle, get to the line of scrimmage? And he said, if we could put that kind of pressure on them and they can handle that in camp, it'll be easy in the games. And for a large stretch, it was. Like, operationally, those same issues weren't there. What Denver lacked is just the explosive plays.

Only two pass attempts of 20 or more air yards yesterday. Russell Wilson completed one of those. So again, you're seeing the efficiency that's going to, I think, raise the floor of this offense. But the question is, what is the ceiling in a Russell Wilson quarterback offense when they're clearly lacking playmaking ability? Yeah, that's the fascinating part. Obviously, raising the floor is good when you were as bad as the Broncos were last year, especially just inept for long stretches on offense. He completed 17 of his first 19, two touchdowns in the first half.

You're feeling pretty good. And then the wheels maybe just kind of fell off a little bit in the second half. And situationally, the Raiders just made the plays. Like what was different in the second half? And why couldn't they finish this game off? Because I don't think the Raiders are going to be that good this season. No, I don't think so either. And it was a really weird game, Zach.

They had the Broncos only had six possessions the entire game. I went back and looked at it. They had never had fewer than eight in a game going all the way back to 2000, which is far back as Trumedia tracks that. So it was a very unusual game. So you're right. They scored touchdowns on two of their three first half possessions. They only had three of those possessions in the second half.

They're real blown opportunity. They're leading by three midway through the fourth quarter. They get a first and goal at the eight-yard line of the Raiders. And after successfully converting their first two red zone opportunities, they're unable to do so. And I think that was, again, an interesting situation there where you just didn't see guys separate down at that part of the field. They really missed Jerry Judy yesterday.

He's kind of that one guy that they have that can create something out of nothing in terms of his separation ability. You just didn't see that on the field yesterday. And then when Greg Dolsich, their young fast playmaking tight end, went down with a hamstring injury, they were really lacking. You know, Adam Troutman bless his heart. He's catching passes in the, in the flat with what seems like real estate to get to the first down marker and can't quite,

you know, can't get there. They just didn't quite have that finishing explosiveness. And some of this is you give up Zach three first round picks over the course of two years to get your quarterback and coach. Yeah. You mentioned that. No top 60 picks in the last two years? Yeah, that's right.

Yeah. It's a players league. Coaches say that all the time, right? It's like who's got the extra, who's got those guys that win those three to five plays in a game? and I wonder if that's going to be a problem for the Broncos moving forward. They're doing, I mean, they spent some money in free agency, right? They paid some linemen for sure to protect Russ, but do they have the playmakers around them?

Judy getting back will be helpful. But if they couldn't beat the Raiders at home in week one, I don't know how I feel about them. Yeah, it's, it was tough. And when you look at Sean Peyton saying, hey, like, I'm going to be disappointed if this is not a playoff team. That's sort of the expectation that they set going into the year. That was one you kind of look at the schedule and say, that's one of the ones you have to pick up if you're going to be in this game.

Now they're going to have to go steal one. I don't think it's going to be September 24th in Miami if you look at how that Dolphins offense operated yesterday. Vic Fangio will certainly want to draw up something pretty spicy for his old team. So you're just looking at, you know, as the schedule goes on, they play the Chiefs twice in 12 days in October. It's sandwiched in between a game against the Packers who looked pretty good yesterday as well. So, you know, again, they just.

that was sort of a had-to-have-a-game. Look, it is week one. They are doing, they're just doing so many things differently. I think there was some encouraging stuff you saw. You mentioned the free agency acquisitions. Those were on the offensive line. And I thought, for the most part, they ran the ball really effectively. When you're having multiple drives of eight minutes plus, you're picking up consistent

first downs. You can't do that without running the ball. Javonte Williams, who was out most of the last year, I thought, looked pretty good in his regular season return yesterday. Samajai P. Ryan, you know, is, I think, going to be another, good asset for them. So they have, I think, more balance in the run game. They're a lot more diverse in what they do running the football. And so that's all good and good and well, but you have to use that to be able to create explosive shots. And at least in week one, they didn't do that.

Having Jerry Judy back will help. But I just think that they're going to need to, they're going to need to get a little bit more comfortable with taking some of these shots and still being able to protect it. And until they do, it's just going to be hard for them to have a high ceiling offensively. Yeah. And that's ironic because that was the calling card of Russ late in his Seattle career was as good of a deep ball thrower as there was. I mean, just unbelievably accurate 30, 40, 50 yards down the field. And I mean, there was nothing accurate last year in terms of like the passing game in Denver. Let's keep it on the quarterback for a minute.

And I heard something interesting this morning. Orlovsky was on one of the talk shows and he said, people want Russell Wilson to fail more than any player in football. And I was like, dang, that's a hot take. But maybe he's not wrong. What's the vibe like in Denver? So they come in, they pay him all this money, absolute train wreck of a season. The coach is out before the season's even over.

Is Russ different this year? Is he the exact same? Does he care about the outside noise? Does he just give you cliches? Like, you're there every day. Who is this guy? Yeah, you know, I do think that talking to some people around him, I think there was certainly a humbling, a deeply humbling aspect of last year.

And he did change some things. He lost 15 pounds. going even back and looking at some of the pictures from the beginning of last year, he really wasn't in the kind of shape that he typically wants to be. I'm not saying he wasn't working hard in the offseason or anything like that. That's never really an issue with him, but it's how he was doing it. He slimmed down quite a bit this year to become more mobile. And you saw it on the two touchdown passes.

He has to evade to his right. One time he had Max Crosby right in his face on the first touchdown on Denver's opening offensive drive, pops out, hits his receiver in the back of the end zone. So I think you've seen some encouraging things in that regard. He's really, I think, taken to the idea that he needs to be more resembling that quarterback that he was when he was getting outside the pocket. They rolled him out quite a bit going to his right on Sunday. But again, I think that the overall vibe is, it's hard to really envision a scenario in which this trade

becomes some sort of gigantic win or even a moderate win at this point, right? I think the fans have, there's some resignation of like, we need him to be an average quarterback. And while certainly that is not what you envisioned when you gave up five draft picks, two first rounders, three players, and then you sign him to a five-year, $245 million extension that, by the way, Zach, doesn't even start until next year, because he still had two years remaining on his original contract when he got to Denver. It's just one of those situations where you're just, you know, it's hard to envision a path where he, fulfill sort of all that you all that you gave up.

But in the here and now, that really can't matter to Sean Payton. He just has to get Russell Wilson to be a guy that he can consistently win games with. And that's where they're struggling now. And again, yesterday was a tough one because you're looking down that list and say

where are these so-called easy wins coming from? That's a crazy humbling reality for a Broncos fan base to be just hoping that The quarterback you gave this huge deal to Reach's mediocrity, like reaches average. This quarterback who's won a Super Bowl and obviously, you know, like Peyton went to Denver and they won. And then they were on that quarterback carousel for a couple years trying to find the guy.

You think you found the guy. Not only are you just hoping to get average from that guy, but you also gave up the kind of draft capital that's preventing that guy. And then the other thing going on at the same time is this coach, Sean Payton, who's really hungry to win. is not shy about it, is talking a lot in the media about the previous coach and about how much he wants to be the first coach to win two Lombardi's with two different teams. It just feels like so much surrounding this team makes you think they're needing to win right now. But when you look at them on Sundays, that's not the reality they're in. It just feels like this is a team in conflict right now. They couldn't even beat the Raiders.

The Raiders are probably the worst team in that division, if not the Broncos. Yeah, and it's one of those situations where, like, you're right, they paid this offseason, both in what they paid dollars-wise to hire Sean Payton, both in what they spent cash in free agency. Yeah, like that says something. Like, that says we're going for it. That says you're trying to win, that you're trying to wholly erase last year. But I know, you mentioned, you mentioned his comments about, you know, in USA Today about Nathaniel Hackett putting forth one of the worst coaching jobs in history.

But you put a big target on your back when you say something like that. You better deliver when you do that. Even though it might be fairly true, like the league is a long history. I think it's a bit of a prisoner of the moment thing. Hackett certainly was in over his head last year. But the end, I think the symmetry, Zach, that, you know, I think hit Broncos fans yesterday was all of that that happened in this offseason. You bring in this coach who's won a Super Bowl that is completely changing in almost every way

how you do things, different offensive schemes. mall that the final result in week one was a 17 to 16 loss. That's the exact score that they lost to the Seahawks by 363 days earlier. I mean, it's just like, you know, sports sometimes do this to us. So it's like the more things change was sort of the sentiment, the more they look right now the same. And they're, Sean Payton has called it a sprint to the quarter pole to improve. And they, they better lace it up because they got a long way to go, you know, by the time they play that fourth game in Chicago on the 1st of October. They've talked. They've talked the talk. And like you said, the same exact score they suffered last year in Seattle in that week one loss

in Russ's old place. I'll get you out of here on this, Nick. Anything you saw or heard yesterday change your perception on this team. Because I'm sure you were as a beat rider, curious as hell, to walk into the stadium and see what this is going to look like if Russ is going to be, quote, fixed. If Peyton was going to be this guy, they paid all this money for and just flip this team immediately. Usually it doesn't happen like that. But what did you learn yesterday that you maybe didn't know about this team? Or did it just validate everything you've seen since August 1st? Well, I think there were some things that validated what we kind of thought in terms of what they were going to look like, being a power run team, an inside power run team, and working Russell

off that to create some easier shots, more efficiency. We saw that. And, you know, you at, you you sprinkle in a few more offensive plays combined with that efficiency, combined with better protection, and they're going to give themselves a chance most weeks. I'm going to take it to the defensive side. One of the things that the Broncos really struggled with last year, particularly after they traded Bradley Chubb to get the first round pick, they eventually used on Sean Payton, was rushing the passer. They were among the league's worst the second half of last season.

And they did not draft any sort of replacement for Chubb, not that you can replace the number five overall pick when you don't pick until the 60s, but they didn't draft the guy early in that regard. They did not sign anybody significant free agency. You know, Frank Clark was a late signing who's probably going to be more of a situational guy. Their pass rush yesterday was non-existent. Lowest pressure rate in the league of teams that had played through Sunday night could not create any sort of pressure on Jimmy Garapolo. And that was despite the fact that Vance Joseph called up Blitz's 41% of the past rush snaps.

So that is to me going to be a significant issue. issue because this defense has to be really good. It's sort of an unfair burden they've carried for a lot of the last seven years. They were really good last year in a nightmare, right? They were. And so, but if they cannot, you know, again, Randy Gregory, you talk about another big, big time George Payton decision to give him a five-year contract with 32 million guaranteed as much as 70 million. He only played in six games last year. They need him to be a significant hint disruptive force and he really wasn't, wasn't anywhere to be heard of on Sunday afternoon. So that's another thing to watch.

They have to figure out pretty quickly how to get that turned around. Playing a commander's team that gave up six sacks in its first game might be a good way to try to reverse that trend come this Sunday. But if they come out of that game without any sort of real pressure production, then you're going to have a real concern on your hands. That game is in Denver, correct? It is, yep. So you talk about a must win automatically.

like you lose that one and then there really is virtually already two weeks in the season. No realistic path to the playoffs. I hate the term must win, but it feels like a can't lose for Sean Payton. What was the Marv Levy quote? The only must win was World War II. But no, it feels like with all the stakes and all the talk and all the pressure that they have welcomed in some ways in Denver, it does feel like a game that if they're smart, they don't lose. And that's a good point about the defense because, look, I mean, if you give Jimmy

Garapolo time, he's going to carve you up. He's good enough to do that. The other two quarterbacks in your division don't even need time to carve you up. They're two of the best in the league and Herbert and Mahomes. So that'll be fascinating. This is going to be one of the most fascinating teams all year. You know that, Nick. You're doing it every day.

I'll be catching up with you soon, I'm sure. Hopefully, under better circumstances after maybe a Broncos win, but you never know. They'll keep it interesting for sure. All right, Zach. Appreciate it, man. That was awesome. Thank you to Matt and Green Bay, to Nick and Denver, to Josh and Atlanta for walking us through those games and what they saw and what they heard.

And thank you to Robert for sharing his podcast fee for at least 24 hours. Robert and Nate will be back this week with their regular lineup of shows. We'll have the GM show with Mike Sando and Randy Mueller on Thursday. And then we'll be back with you next Tuesday morning. So for everyone at The Athletic, thank you for listening. This is Zach Kiefer and we will catch up with you guys next week. This was the Athletic Football Show.