The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Keefer and the Beats: How Flacco saved the Browns, why the Ravens aren't running from past failures & inside the Russell Wilson benching in Denver

Episode Date: January 2, 2024

In the Week 17 edition of Keefer and the Beats, The Athletic's Zak Keefer discusses Cleveland's surge with Zac Jackson, Baltimore's recent dominance with Jeff Zrebiec untangles Denver's mess with Russell Wilson, his contract and his murky future with the organization with beat writer Nick Kosmider. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show's Kiefer and the Beats. Welcome back to the Athletic Football Show and happy new year out there to everybody. This is Zach Kiefer here to dig into week 17 across the NFL as we inch a little bit into 2024 and get closer to the playoffs. One more week of the regular season and then the fun really starts. Awesome show today. Three great conversations with our beat writers from around the country. Good to be back.

And we will start of all places, Cleveland, Ohio, with the. NFL's best story. The Joe Flacco experience continues to defy belief and comprehension, for that matter. So we'll dig in with our Brown's beatwriter, Zach Jackson, on how and why this is all happening. The Browns have won four straight. They've clinched the five-seat in the AFC playoff picture. This is wild. Why does Kevin Cofansky's offense work so much better with Flacco than it did with Deshawn

Watson? Can they bring Flacco back next season as a backup? Can they afford not to? And who's their best matchup in a first-round playoff game? We'll get into all that with Zach. And then from there, we'll stay in the AFC North, and we'll head to Baltimore, where the best team in football is playing. The Ravens for the second straight week absolutely annihilated a Super Bowl contender, 56 to 19 over the Dolphins yesterday. Now, beyond John Harbaugh, who's done an incredible job, they got two of the best coordinators in football right now.

Mike McDonnell on defense and Todd Munkin, the first-year offensive coordinator, who has lifted that offense to another level. Now, we can't overlook Lamar Jackson, my pick for the MVP. and they're not running from this conversation in Baltimore, which I found fascinating, is 2019. The last time Lamar won the MVP, the last time they had the number one seed, they didn't win a playoff game. They were bounced in the divisional round by the Titans. And John Harbaugh is welcoming that conversation and that challenge this time around. Great conversation with our Ravens beatwriter Jeff Zrebeck on the league's best team. And finally, we will dig into what has been the biggest mess in football over the last seven days.

I'm sure the Jets are happy to pass that title on. No questions ask. That is in Denver right now. The Russell Wilson situation is an absolute disaster. A huge thank you to Nick Cosmiter, our Broncos Beat Rider, for joining to break down just about everything that's happened over the last two years in Denver. Going back to the Nathaniel Hackett hiring, the trade for Russell Wilson, the contract. He's got the backstory of everything that happened over this season with the benching and the threat to bench him. if he didn't postpone his injury guarantee.

This is really messy, and thanks to Nick for hopping on and explaining everything that's going on both publicly and privately. Such a strange, strange situation. I can't think of ever hearing about a team asking a player to push back an injury guarantee in the middle of the season or after a win that helped them stay alive in the playoff race. So strange times in Denver. And it's going to be really interesting to see where they go from here at quarterback. Nick had some great insight on that as well. All right, Kiefer in the Beats, week 17, a week to go until the playoffs. Let's go.

All right, from Cleveland, Ohio, home to the resurgent and unbelievable Cleveland Brown. Zach Jackson, Zach, happy New Year and welcome, as I think the first three-time guests we've had on Kiefer of the Beats this season. So go figure. The Cleveland Browns just keep delivering. Yeah, big times in Cleveland for old guys, me and Joe Flacco. So it is kind of unbelievable. You guys are probably like the same age, right? Well, close, close.

He will turn 39 on Wild Card Weekend, Zach, and he has the Browns there. So that's the unbelievable part. You know, this defense is legit. It has a case as the best defense in the league. And I've long thought they could drag him there. But what he's done has changed everything. And, you know, you're looking for that magic month, right? Maybe they already had it, but they've won four straight.

The offense is completely different than it was. And despite losing a bunch of guys, I mean, this defense, nobody wants to see. in a one-and-out scenario. That was true before Flacco, but now, you know, they're scary. So the bad news is that the only team hot of them in is the Ravens, right? But we don't know exactly how this bracket's going to go. Obviously, we don't know if Flacco thrown at least one interception a game, we'll come back to bite him.

But he's throwing so many beauties that he has energized in that entire locker room. It's got to be so fun, and that's one of the coolest parts of our job, is just covering the unexpected. And this is at the top of the list in the entire NFL this year. What's fascinating to me from afar is how different our three conversations have been this year. I think I talked to you early, and it was defense. They were just, you know, pummeling everybody. At the middle of the season, it was right before Deshawn Watson went down, he had just finally played a good game.

Here we are talking about Flacco, probably winning comeback player of the year. He's only been there a month or whatever. Right. My question is, why is the offense so much better with him than it was with Watson, when Watson was healthy? Well, I think there's two easy answers to that, Zach. One is he's a fit for what Stafansky wants to do at the core, which is play action, get rid of it quick. You know, Stafansky's designs, as long as everybody makes their blocks, there's going to be a guy open, regardless of what defense. And Flacco just gets it there with some gas.

And he's got his arm is still really nice. That's jumped out of me. It's incredible. These have not been good throws. They've been unreal throws. They really have. But the second thing is just reintroducing the vertical pass. And obviously when you can hit for 50, 75 at a time as they've done, that changes games. But it's more just being able to get it out that 8, 10, 12-yard pass to where that guy is in single coverage,

to when you need that get out of jail, simple play to set up the next set of downs. They've gotten that so many times. Amari Cooper's been a brand new guy. David & Joku is on an absolute tear. And other guys who were either bad. Yeah. And other guys who were either bad to shaky all year alone, and maybe it wasn't entirely their fault or making plays. So Amaris dealing with some things.

He's at the end of year 9. Elijah Moore has a bad concussion, and we're not sure when he's going to be back. But they keep plugging guys in and keep going, and the joke is just on an absolute tear. So they're the 5C. They're like the one thing we know about the playoffs besides the Ravens and the AFC. They are locked into the 5C. Yeah.

They are going to go to whoever wins the AFC South. One of three teams, probably Jacksonville. If they win this week, they host a playoff game. They are the division champs. If not, it would be Indy or Houston, whoever wins that game. My question to you is, who's the best matchup? Because the Browns have beaten all three. Yeah, they have beaten all three.

But they kind of got some officiating help in Indy. Well, they did. And Shane Stuyken really was the first to expose that defense, but he made one fatal mistake, and he let Miles Garrett change that game. He did. You're right. Let me say this in general. There have been times that they have been lucky,

and there have been a small handful of times they've been really lucky. But honestly, they've been not fluky. Like, this defense has been that. consistently good that the offense has had that many more plays, that many more opportunities, or the defense, even in its down days like the Indy game, for example, has made a game-changing play that swings everything and puts the pressure, everything right back on the other team. And when you're getting 50% or so three-and-outs, like, you just win, right? The Browns have a terrible turnover margin.

They overcome it because the defense is never on the field. And Miles Garrett is always back there. And frankly, you know, he only has one sack. I think since around Thanksgiving. But he has dominated games with very few exceptions. So to the AFC South, when they beat Jacksonville, Jacksonville was down to their third and fourth offensive tackles. And obviously, that's not a good match.

But they're not playing well now at all. I believe Zach that the Browns will be favored against any of them. You know, I think it's a different match. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Yeah. You know, they played Houston and they didn't have straw, which is obviously a huge deal. they're flat out better than the Colts.

And I think in Jacksonville's current state, they're better than them too. So, you know, Evan Ingram would give them some fits. And the Jacksonville pass rush did get to Flacco. Basically, it was one of those games where the Browns were in front the whole way, but never comfortably. They go for it on fourth down. Flacco finds a guy against the zero blitz, and they kind of stretch it out. So, yeah, they're going to be a small favorite. Is there a sure thing?

No. but I truly believe this team has the pieces and the momentum that a run to the AFC championship game is possible. And if we kind of move away from the football conversation for just a minute, I mean, this guy, Flacco, I'm just curious up to what kind of story it's like in Northeast Ohio. He's got 13 passes, 13 touchdowns right now. That's equal to Kenny Pickett's career, and he's been the Steeler starter for two years. That's just going to piss everybody off in Pittsburgh.

But just from like you've been there for a long time. You know this team. You know the quarterback issues that have plagued this team for two decades. Maybe this is the flash in the pan and maybe it dies off one game into the playoffs. What's it like in Cleveland right now with this just unbelievable story? It is absolute flakoff fever. It really is. You know, he's got the second most wins of any quarterback ever in that stadium.

He came in with nine. Yeah. That helps. That helps. Yeah. You know, to think that he was just at home, right? And he had beaten them, obviously, eight times with the Ravens. And then last year, and that miracle comeback where the Jets didn't have any timeouts

and we're down two scores under two minutes and they won. It's amazing. And people have embraced him. He has embraced the city, the locker room. You know, the thing he keeps saying is I just feel like a 10-year-old kid playing a game. Like, I wasn't sure I was going to get to play. And he's like, so I'm watching from afar. He's got nothing to lose.

There's something to be said for that. Yeah. And he's kind of like, he's kind of like, You know, this team really had something that I liked and I got here and I just appreciate you guys to, you know, I just appreciate the chance. And he's just been so open and humble about everything, right? Like he's played 16 years, but he never did a free agent tryout. You know, he never had to sit and learn a new playbook in six days off a computer and then get in the huddle and say it where he guys, he didn't even know their names, right? He's been honest about that too.

He played with Elijah Moore and he played with Zadaria Smith. And other than in passing, he didn't know anyone else on his team. You know, so he and Stefansky are both New Jersey, Jersey Shore, Philly area guys. They look alike, to be honest. Yeah, but they didn't know each other. That's crazy. Mutual friends, but they didn't know each other. They had maybe shake hands briefly after a game.

So, yeah, Cleveland is on fire with him. People have the jerseys. You know, he stopped in at Dunkin' Donuts, I think, the other day, and the pitcher went viral. People were like, oh, my gosh, Joe Flackett. It's a great football town. They're just desperate for, like, something like this. And he was basically, you know, living in a hotel. in the summer, it was a mile from the facility.

And then when he realized he's going to last the rest of the year, he got an apartment because he wants his kids to have somewhere to play when he comes in. I mean, Zach, he was getting two hours off a week, and his kids were coming in. He was throwing the football with them in the parking lot of the hotel. Yeah. He's never been to Cleveland except for the airport and the stadium. Yeah.

Like, until now, and he's the god. Now he was like a game away from a statue. No, it's not an exaggeration. And the ownership group is looking for somewhere to build the new stadium, but they also got to find somewhere to build a flack of statue. This is why you listen to Key from the Beats, statue previews. Now, this is a much messier question, but we have to ask it. I want to get your opinion, what the hell happens in the offseason?

Can they bring him back? Is that the smart thing? Can they not bring him back? Like, I feel like... Yeah. You know, I would like to sit here and say it doesn't have to be messy, but it's going to be. Yeah. Like, Deshawn's contract is guaranteed.

And the Browns went from the first year of the awkwardness of bringing Deshaun in from every standpoint and then not knowing when they're going to have him and then not having the best version to really spending the season of, okay, he's going to be good. He's going to be this. And he wasn't. This is and probably will be a disaster. Now, in fairness to Deshaun, the last time we saw him, he outplayed Lamar Jackson and the Browns won a game. Yeah, a couple days before his injury. Yeah. to play in week 18, you know. But he's coming off a major surgery and he's seen a guy take his job

and elevate the entire franchise, not just the offense. That's what they paid him to do. That's what they paid him to do. Yeah. Look, Joe Flacco has made a ton of money. So it's not like the Browns can say, okay, we will go to a rookie punter and we will scrap one defensive starter and we'll pay you the extra three mill to keep you around. It's not that easy. It's about chemistry and selling and what you think. And, you know, if you're Joe and you've proven you can play, you're only going to come back to play. Yeah. You know? And even if the Browns did have something different and said, okay, well, we just want you just in case and we want you in the offseason because DeShon's not going to be cleared until July or mid-August or whatever it's going to be. I'm just

throwing those out there. Then it's like, I don't know. Why would I come back and lose that job? And then you worry about losing the locker room because guys are behind Joe Flacco. I mean, the scenes from the locker room during this four-game win streak. And really all year, credit to these guys, because it was always more about chemistry and buy them than talent to me the last few years with this team. But just the way Najoku's embraced and embracing people, and just the way the defense has constantly bailed them out and is constantly now getting rewarded by Joe and feeding off of Marty Cooper and just, they, Joe's just magnetic.

He's seven years older than the other oldest guy on the team, right? But these 22 and 24-year-olds love him. You can't fake that. That's not something you can fabricate or engineer. That's the cool thing about football is when that thing happens. What a mess. You can't, man, I don't want to be Andrew Barry in the offseason because that is very, very dicey because there's no out in Deshaun Watson's contract. There's no dead money.

It's just a guarantee. Well, enjoy it for now. Yeah, for sure. And everyone is. Last thing I'll let you go. what's it been like for the beat writers? Like you guys, and I've thought this for a couple years, as soon as they signed Deshaun Watson,

that might be the hardest beat in the league to cover. All the Cleveland Brown stuff withstanding, like years of futility, losing, all that. But it's tough to cover a player like Deshaun Watson with the baggage he entered with. And then you get this little month, six-week spree. Like, what's it just like been like covering this team? Because you have to be as surprised as anybody

at where you're at right now. Well, it's a completely different vibe, right? Because it's not the team or the people trying to sell us that something is eventually going to happen or it's going to turn. Exactly. Like we're seeing results and we're seeing Joe come in and be this humble, experienced natural leader. You're not being BS by anybody, right? Like we're watching Miles Garrett win defensive player of the year just change games all the time. And, you know, they did hit that they won a free agency.

They got Dalvin Tomlinson, who they badly needed. and they got Oboa O'Carranco who's dealing with an injury, but he's been really good all year. But honestly, exactly, it was later. It was Rodney McLeod. It was Shelby Harris. It was guys who have played, you know, and that it goes to the theme of Jim Schwartz.

Jim Schwartz didn't need this job. You know, he's an older guy. He was kind of out. He was partially in. Like, they've rallied around him. The defensive culture, everything is totally different. But guys are bought in. And they're going to a one-and-done setting with Miles Garrett

in an offense that, you know, It's completely still has some levels of unpredictability, but has levels of explosion that it hasn't had consistently at any time, anytime. So, you know, you've got to keep them from getting a lead, and you got to block Miles Garrett. And, you know, those things are going to be difficult. Like you said, they're not going to be playing a world beater in the first round of the playoffs. They have the explosive ability with Njoku and Cooper.

Flacco can throw the deep ball. And like you said, they can muddy a game up with that defense. They can turn you over and frustrate you, and none of these AFC South teams are playing very well right now. Maybe we should just pencil on the Browns for the second round of the playoffs. Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself. Well, in Jacksonville, the crowd is going to be like 65-35 Browns. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, you can't get a fight.

Yeah, and it should be because what a story. Best story in the NFL right now. I'm glad we've had you on so much to chronicle it because this is a completely different conversation than we had back in September, and even in October. and here we are, and that's the fun part. So get some sleep. You're going to have a busy couple weeks in Cleveland, but thanks for hopping on and sharing all the insight with what is going on with Joe Flacklow and the Cleveland Browns.

Yeah, hey, just let me make sure I say this. Stafancy's going to be coach of the year. That's a part of it. There's a lot of good coaches that deserve conversation. D'emiko Rines, Shane Steichen, but Stifansky's, yeah, I think he's going to win it. Yeah, the buy-in, the overcoming adversity, the finishing strong. All that goes to coaching. I keep looking at their record, and it doesn't make sense to me.

I just can't believe their record is what it is. But yeah, pretty wild. He's done great. Thanks, ma'am. Thanks, buddy. All right, from Baltimore, Maryland, home to the best team in the NFL, hands down right now, the Baltimore Ravens. Our Ravens beat writer, Jeff Zerbich. Jeff, happy new year.

And, man, 2024, the Ravens have designs on this being a year to remember. I don't really have a great question to start other than the last time we talked. We kind of dug into some of the flaws with this team, even though they were winning. I don't really see any flaws right now. Where did this come from where they're just hammering all these great teams? Yeah, you know, I think a big part of it is they just have so many ways that they can beat you. And even during the stretch where they, you know, they've won 10 of 11 and 6 straight, you know, they won a game with a punt return touchdown.

They've won games like, you know, Sunday against the dolphins where, you know, Lamar Jackson goes crazy and throws five touchdown passes. He hasn't done that a lot. No, no. And suddenly the deep ball kind of becomes part of it. They won a game in Jacksonville where they rushed for over 200 yards in the second half. They won a game in San Francisco where they forced five, you know, Brock Purdy interceptions. It's just, it's a very well-balanced team that has a lot of ways they can attack opponents in all three phases. And, you know, it's a, you know, they've had guys dropping like flies too now.

And they have a really good roster where there's not a ton of drop off. There's a lot of veterans on really short, you know, kind of modest deals that kind of have been playing more and have had to be relied on. And, you know, as I said, it's just, it's another, every week they kind of seem to find another way to win a game and attack opponent's weaknesses. And, you know, John Harbaugh talks all the time about getting better as the season goes on. I don't know that we've seen a better example of a Ravens team doing that than this. one because there was legitimate concern. I mean, there was a lot going wrong at different parts of the season. You know, they were blowing leads and their offense was inconsistent and their defense would give up some big plays. But, you know, all in all, man, you know, they're clicking on all

cylinders and playing exactly like you want to play heading into the postseason. Yeah, that's a good point. Like, the best teams get better at this time of the year. And Belichick's teams did that for years into England. that they would be sloppy in October and September. And it is wild to me that they put 56 on the dolphins yesterday without a guy like Mark Andrews. I mean, four touchdowns in both halves without one of the best tight ends in the league. The interesting conversation that came up yesterday, and I'm surprised they went there, was 2019.

Now, that was Lamar's first year as the starter, number one seed, MVP, bounced in the first round by the Titans. And a game that wasn't really that close. No. Now, they addressed it yesterday. Were you surprised? you were on the beat then. Were you surprised they just openly said like, we remember 2019? Not the players to an extent because that's really been a rallying cry for Lamar Jackson in recent weeks. He keeps, you know, because it started to feel like 2019. That year, you know, they had a couple of these big time showdowns against really good teams.

Like the one in San Francisco at home in the rain and they pulled it out. You know, they were beating good teams. And then they went into, you know, and faced a pretty decent Rams team at the the Coliseum and Jackson through five touchdown passes and they just boat race the Rams. And that was that kind of game reminded me of some of their games, you know, here where they're just destroying like good teams. So it's sort of the similarities have kind of been eerie and just so many different ways. I mean, look, that team in 2019 won 14 straight games than the regular season, excuse me, 12 straight games than the regular season. They finished 14 and 2, but they were 2 and 2 at one point. And, you know, it started with a loss of the Browns and this team streak started

with a loss to the Browns. Yeah. You know, there's so many similarities in sort of how the season kind of went and now we're getting this, you know, the latest similarity, which is clinching the top seed and having the final game of the regular season against the Steelers at home both times, not really be all that meaningful, you know, in the standing. So, but the one person I am surprised that was so open about addressing it. was John Harbaugh because, you know, he's been around for a long time. And we all know coaches kind of have their things that they don't, you know, you've covered beats for a long time.

One thing Harbaugh never does is touch on comparison questions. He'll tell you a second, that's a comparison question. I don't answer you. He'll just interrupt you. Yeah. I get it. I get it to a degree. Oh, he's been saying it for years.

I hate those questions. He brought it up. Yeah, you know, he was asked about it yesterday. And he said, look, 2019 is something that sticks. with us. I mean, Zach, there's scar tissue in the building from that. That team was an absolute wagon. And they just, you know, they sat guys in week 18. I guess it was week 17 back then against the Steelers. They still won the game. But then they got the week off. Then they came back and they just got looked, they looked flat. And the Titans manhandled them on both lines of scrimmage.

And they couldn't stop Derek Henry. And that game, you know, that was, they, you just can't miss out on chances like that. No, not when you're rolling. Yeah, they were rolling. They were clearly the best team that year. It wasn't even close. And then they just kind of, you know, they just played so poorly in the playoffs. And, you know, guys, they remember that.

There's, you know, like, there's enough new guys in the, in the building, like Roquant Smith and Zay Flowers and some of these guys. I mean, they have a relatively young team in some spots. But Harbaugh certainly remembers. Eric DeCost certainly remembers. And Lamar Jackson's been talking about it for weeks. I mean, this is a guy who's possessed by winning a Super Bowl. And I think we all know that that's, that he's going to win his second MVP more off, you know, probably.

And the last thing, I'm not saying the last thing. I mean, he's still a young guy. So he's got plenty of years ago. But kind of the, he wins a Super Bowl and you have multiple MVP's and a Heisman trophy. I mean, that's, that's hard to beat that resume. So the last box to check for him. Yeah, yeah. Is playoff success.

And it seems like he knows that. embraces one and three. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. He does know that. That's real for him. And he's been talking about it. I mean, you know, I caught up with one of the Ravens veteran cornerbacks, Arthur Millett, and he said, Lamar Jackson, all he's been saying lately is we need to be playing football in February. There's no excuses. We need to be doing it. But yeah, I think overall, the 2019, for John Harbaugh to even almost embrace it and say,

this is something we live with. This is something we deal with. it's going to be a storyline heading whenever their first playoff game is, whoever they play. Absolutely. And they're not hiding from it. I mean, that still kind of stings them so badly that, you know, it's going to be a talking point here for the next couple weeks. They don't get, I mean, before the last couple weeks,

the Ravens don't get as much national chatter as a lot of the other elite teams. Harbaugh is just very consistent. It doesn't say anything splashy. But I want to put some shine on two other coaches. relatively new. Obviously, Mike McDonald's been there for two years, but he's a young coach. And then Todd Munkin, what he's done with the offense, like you said, getting better month to month. These are two of the best coordinators in the game right now, and they put that on display over the last two weeks. They beat the Dolphins and the Niners by 51 combined points.

I'm curious, you're in the locker room every day, you watch practice, you watch the games. What are the players and the other coaches saying about the impact those guys have had? because they had longtime coordinators in place before these guys took over. And this is a different Ravens team. I mean, they are heads and shoulders above everybody in the league because they had the results to back it up. Yeah, I think, you know, look, Kevin Stefansky, Sean McVeigh, you know, they deserve coach of the year. And John Harbaugh is a talented team. And it's tough to get coach of the year when people expect you to be really good.

Right. But the job John did in the last two years in overhauling his staff. And that started last offseason when kind of they parted ways with Wink Martindale, who was very successful and went with Mike McDonald's. And then this offseason, it continued with Todd Munkin. And it's not just, it's some of their defensive staff, Zach, I think is going to have three or four defensive coordinators on it. I mean, you got McDonald's. DeNard Wilson should have been the Philly defensive coordinator. Siriani made a mistake there.

Well, I bet Siriani and the Philly organization, regret. That's that the way they're playing. My God. He's turned around. Dernard Wilson has helped turn around the secondary, you know, and then you got Anthony Weaver, who, you know, he was a defensive coordinator for one year in Texas. I mean, nobody was winning with that team. They had the 32nd ranked defense, but he's their assistant head coach here,

defensive line coach. He's done a great job. So their staff is just loaded. Harbaugh has done a great job there. But yeah, the two coordinators, I think what's been amazing about them, Zach, and what the players talk about a lot is just how game to game their game plan is. They're not stuck in the same ways. Yeah, we're going to attack you this way. They find weaknesses of that particular team to attack. I mean, Munkin every week with that game plan, just like, okay, like you can say

yesterday, I mean, they kind of found a couple week links on that Miami defense and they went after them. I mean, you see some plays. It goes back to what you said earlier. They're winning in very different ways month to month week to week and that's the talent of their of their play caller as well. Yeah, you've seen different plays yesterday where they attacked certain Miami things that Miami does to other teams. So, um, and Mike McDonald with just the, you know, like the disguises and they don't, you know, all the Ravens defense, you and I remember blitz. And it was just pants on fire. Oh, yeah. Wink Martindale used to say all 11 of my guys are going to get off the bus ready to blitz. I mean, that's just how he coach.

And Mike McDonald's not like that. I mean, they're kind of in the lower third, a blitz percentage. They kind of play more of a team-oriented defense where they disguise coverages. And they do different things. And like yesterday even, they were down their Kyle Hamilton, didn't play. Brandon Stevens, who's been their most consistent quarter, didn't play. Then they lost their most accomplished corner, Marlon Humphrey. They lost Darrow.

They were down five guys in the secondary. And I know Miami's dealing with injuries, too. but this is Miami who could score in a second. And you saw kind of, look, they went to play, they would, you know, and Tyree Kill kind of said it in a way, but they went in cover two, which they don't really, they haven't really done all year. They've not, they don't play much cover two.

It makes sense against Miami. Yeah. So they have the ability to play in a lot of different ways, and the two coordinators are not too arrogant where they have to be my way or the highway guys. This is the way we're going to do it because this is the way we're doing it. No, every week they kind of try to figure out a game plan and different things, you know, that they're going to give the other team trouble. And that's, I think, the best thing you could say about their coordinators, just how versatile they've been, how diverse they've been, and how open-minded.

I mean, look, if Lamartos Todd Monkin, he doesn't like something, they're not doing it. And, you know, Greg Roman had a lot of success with the Ravens. But it was a little more Greg Roman's offense, you know, is how he did things. Heavy run. Yeah, and with John Harba. You know, that's John Harbaugh's vision, too. With Todd Monkin is like, this is what we're going to do for the Ravens. This is what our quarterback who's driving the bus is going to do.

I mean, yesterday you saw Lamar Audible on the big catch by Beckham down the sideline, which sort of kind of changed the momentum of the game a little bit because Gus Edwards scored on the next play and the Ravens were kind of off. And that was a Lamar call. He saw something. He changed it. Lamar hasn't had that freedom in the past that he has now. That's a real credit to Munkin for kind of, you know, giving him that freedom.

That's interesting. And as the MVP debate has ramped up the last couple of weeks, everyone's throwing stats out. And I wrote this last night. Like you cannot quantify Lamar's impact with stats. And you know this better than anybody. I mean, this is a telling quote from OBJ who's been on a world champion before. He said, this is in your story last night. This is the best team I've ever been on in my entire life.

It feels like that. My question is, who's skill? scares them in the AFC. Now, we can always have a bad game and it's the NFL, but maybe Buffalo. Everybody seems to be flailing to some degree right now. Casey and Miami and the AFC South. I don't think anybody scares you in there. Does anybody, anybody in the AFC scare you in terms of Buffalo getting upset?

I don't know that anybody scares them, but I think, you know, where the Ravens seem to kind of get into rock fights where they're close games and Lamar Jackson seems to maybe make a few more mistakes and they get slowed down or against AFC North teams that know him really well. Yeah. Cleveland, just that defense? Yeah, Zach, you know how this works. I mean, you just know at some point Joe Flacco will be coming to Baltimore in the playoffs.

And Matt Stafford will probably be coming to Detroit. You think you'll have a story ready for that one? Anything you can come up with? Yeah, and Matthew Stafford is probably going to be coming Detroit. And that's just how football kind of tends to work. But I'm not saying the Browns scare. them. But with their elite defense, and they sort of have become this, they're hot. I mean, you know, these teams are dangerous in the playoffs. And, you know, there's something to be said for, and you

know this better than any, Lamar against NFC teams, he's like 21 and one or something. Yeah, yeah. AFC North is a different level because they see them all the time. And I think that's where a little bit of the troubles happen. No, yeah, no question. And they're, you know, they've an elite defense. And the funny thing is about that 20 and one record, their one losses against the Giants, whose coordinator was their longtime coordinator and has a very much of familiarity. Because everyone else doesn't see Lamar very often. They don't know how to argue like the Detroit game this year, the Seattle game. Seattle was 5 and 2 when the Ravens beat him 37 to 3. I mean, they beat the Lions 38 to 6. I mean, they just supposed NFC contenders. They just destroyed

them. And then they did the same thing to the 49ers. Yeah, you can't simulate Lamar. Jackson and you know, Kyle Shanahan said that pretty well. You just, you watch it on film, you think you have a plan, but he makes a play that you have defended perfectly and he reels off a huge gain and you just kind of shrug your shoulders and that gets kind of frustrating. Yesterday, the dolphins just gave them too many freebies. There was just too many guys running loose and that was a, you know, look, not taking anything away from Lamar.

He was tremendous. I mean, he had a perfect passer rating. He had more touchdown passes than incompletions. But that was kind of a Todd Munkin masterclass yesterday. I mean, they were just scheming guys open left and right. And it was just very well executed. And, you know, the funny thing is, Zach, being in that building last week, I thought the Ravens were tight.

I really did. Well, it was a short week coming off of West Coast game, an emotional, not an emotional win, but a big win on Christmas Day. How are they going to respond? Yeah, they put a lot into that game. game. They were, you know, Roquan Smith, who never made, he said this is, that's as physical as the game we've ever played. Kevin Zitler said similar. And these are guys that have been through the battles. So they were, there was some concern about that game Sunday, you know, just because, you know,

they didn't get in until 8 a.m. on Tuesday morning. And then you have to prepare for all the dolphins and what they do. So for them to play like dad and, and to have such good game plans, I think reflects really felt well for John Harrow. on his staff. Last thing before we let you go and we'll probably talk to you in a couple weeks because you'll have a little bit of time off with the buy. Do they play their guys on Sunday? They've got the Steelers at home.

There's nothing the Ravens can do. They've clinched everything. They're the only team in the AFC with that week off. But you, like you said, they were flat in that game in 19. I wonder if that factors into Harbaugh's decision. Yeah, I, you know, look, Harbaugh said after that game that he thinks, thinks the layoff probably affected them. And he said since, if we're in that same situation again,

I will probably do things differently. So that sort of frames kind of his approach, I think. But the other factor in play is, look, they're down a bunch of guys. I mean, first of all, guys that couldn't play yesterday are not going to play this week. You're not going to force Kyle Hamilton back. Correct. Correct. And that's a month layover then all of a sudden. Yeah. And you're not going to force Brandon Stevens back. And then you lost Marlon Humphrey in the game. You're not going to force him back. So that's already guys that you're not going to play, right? So that's already four. You know, so you only have so many spots. You can't, you know, their roster rules. You can't sit everybody. You need to get guys playing. So I think the majority of guys will play. But like I could see them losing using a guy like Jadavion Clowny as.

like a situational pass ratcher where he plays like 10 snaps. Right. And maybe Lamar Jackson plays a couple of drives and hands the ball off. I would just hand the ball off. Yeah. I wouldn't take a chance with him. With Watt and Heismith coming around the corner. Yeah.

And the Steelers are playing for their lives. They're playing for their playoff lives and they're going to be going balls out. So yeah. So I think there will be a mix. But I think there'll be a bunch of guys who do sit, who need to sit because they probably would have been 50-50 heading into this game anyway. I mean, you've got multiple Ravens playing with torn pectorals, and you know how it is this time of year. It's like an NHL locker room when the team loses.

You hear about a dozen injuries of guys playing with broken ankles. That you didn't know about exactly. It's kind of like we'll probably here. Yeah, it's probably like here. So I think you try to give guys rest that really need it. But I think you also, knowing what happened in 2019, I think you've got to try as close as you can to kind of keep the rhythm going to keep these guys engaged a little bit. whether that means playing a couple drives or what i'm not sure but i you can't sit everybody i think it'll be a representative raven's team out there but i think anything that's even a borderline is

not a decision to make you sit whoever that player is yeah especially with this 17 game season the extra week um it's going to be fascinating they are they are just playing lights out right now whether they continue that in the playoffs is going to be the question you're right about all those conversations about Lamar. They will resurface before that divisional round game because that's the one thing he hasn't done in this league well on his way to his second MVP. The Ravens 13 and three. They've won nine of 10, six in a row. Jeff, thanks for hopping on this morning and we'll catch up with you when the playoffs get going. Great talking to Zach. Have a great new year. And finally, today, the most interesting team in the NFL, not because of football reasons. From

Denver, Colorado, our Broncos writer, Nick Cosmeyer, Nick, New Year, and I'm sure it was a nice, quiet end of 2020 for you. Happy New Year to you, Zach. I think we packed as much drama into the last week of 2020 as there had been for this team all year, which is saying something because it had its fair share from the very start of training camp when Sean Pate decided to go scorched. That feels like five years ago. Coaching regime in USA Today.

So it feels like many moons ago, my friend. But, yeah, the last week of 2023, right at the tail end of the season, certainly came with some seismic activity for the Broncos. I don't think this is a stretch to stay. One of the stranger NFL stories I've heard about in several years, just all the dynamics that go into it. And we'll get into everything. I think a year ago at this time, they were firing Hackett. Wasn't that right around Christmas time? And so you've just had a whirlwind of a year on the Broncos beat.

Yeah. Yeah, it goes back to obviously. you know, March of 2022 is when they swing the trade for Russell Wilson. They had hired Hackett two months ago. You're covering all of that, that gigantic trade. And then rolling into a season that quickly goes off the rails, you were there. That famed Thursday night game when it was just like, holy cow, this just isn't going to work. It's not working.

And, you know, this year, it got a little bit better under Sean Payton. But ultimately, not enough for his taste. And yeah, it all led to the benching of Russell Wilson this week and a lot of fallout that followed. So let's go backwards and let's work through this. It's a very strange situation. They beat the Chiefs a couple days before Halloween, the first win against the Chiefs in a long time. And then what we have learned over the last week, I'm just going to let you have the floor and explain in the most simplest of terms what the Broncos did, how Russ responded, and how it led us to this point. Yeah, so the Broncos beat the Chiefs on October 29th to go to three and five.

It was the first time they had beat Kansas City, as you mentioned, since 2015. I've been eight years, 16 losses. So it was a huge win. It was a big shot in the arm for a franchise. And they came to Russell Wilson the Monday or Tuesday after that game, he said, through his representation and essentially told him that they wanted him to move back the early trigger injury guarantee for the 2025 season. That came with a $37 million salary that was guaranteed at this point for injury only.

And they said that they wanted him to move that back in order to sort of better assess their quarterback position going forward to give him a path forward into 2024. But as is well within his right, he declined that. He said told us Friday, look, I've played 12 years, like, you know, been in this league a long time. I don't think any player. I just can't think of any players who would just agree to that back. No, and exactly, especially a quarterback who, you know, gets sacked as often as Russell Wilson does, plays the way that he plays. But however it went down, and this is where the acrimony has come into play,

Russell Wilson's camp perceived it as a threat that you would be benched if you do not acquiesce to this, to this request from us. The Broncos say these were just negotiations. And so there is a clear chasm into how exactly, that conversation took place and there's been a lot of you know there will be to continue to be parsing of language you know our our jeff how confirmed yesterday that the broncos did receive a letter from the nflpa that essentially told them um this request is it violates a bargaining agreement violates new york state law i would think from the outside yeah such a strange request slash yeah in this in this league

yeah yeah yeah and you know contract negotiations you know you know contract negotiations you know you know, I was, I talked to some agents about this. They said, these things are, you know, kind of always ongoing conversations. The Broncos had actually broached this subject probably a little more softly before the season began with Russell Wilson's representation, but circled back to it during, you know, during that by week. And whether it was because, you know, they had won these games, whatever the case might have been, it just became, it was a lot more of a contentious negotiation clearly. but the end result was at the Broncos, whether it was because of, you know, this letter from the NFLPA, whether the league got involved, whatever the reason they ultimately, of course, did not bench Russell Wilson at that time. He started the next seven games.

The Broncos eventually got to six and five following a one in five start, but they then lost three out of their next four games, and the offense during that stretch really struggled, particularly red zone, third down, areas where Sean Payton felt like the offense just wasn't good enough. Was the reason they were losing games? Russell Wilson also started to turn the ball over five times in those four games as opposed to just once in the previous five games during that winning streak. And so ultimately, after a Christmas Eve loss to the Broncos that largely ended their

playoff bid, they weren't officially eliminated that night. But in all practicality ended their playoff bid, you know, Sean Payton went off on the offense. saying we're average to below average in just about every category. It's simply not good enough. And that set the table for last Wednesday, kind of this seismic announcement that they had benched Russell Wilson for the last two games. It sets up just myriad questions about his future, about what the team will do at quarterback,

about how this will all play out. But the end result was Jared Stidham starting yesterday in the Broncos' 16 to 9 ugly win against the Chargers, and he'll start the finale as well. the what, which is what everyone's talking about, the why of why the Broncos went to him in late October to do this. Now, they're trying to push back a guarantee that essentially would keep him with the team next year, essentially. So where's the team coming from and what's the team want? What do the Broncos want? Yeah. So with the early trigger data, if he was on the roster on the fifth day of the league year next year, that $37 million injury guarantee would become fully

guaranteed. And what they were saying is like we so essentially what you're what would happen there is the Broncos are committing to two more years of Russell Wilson at that point. They were the team is trying to say listen the way this is gone you know we still want to have him have every chance but but we need to this needs to be sort of a continuing evaluation. The problem is for Russell Wilson once you get that request once things are gone the way that they have he's not done he pretty clearly sees that writing on the wall. If he's going into a camp competition or whatever it might be without those sorts of guarantees, he knows that puts them in a bad spot because if they were to cut ties, you know, in September next year, August after a competition, whatever it might be, well, now he's up a

creek because every team has selected their starting quarterback by and large at that point. And that just leaves him with a lot less options. Here he says, no, I'm not going to do that. If you want to cut me, ultimately, that's going to be your choice. And he'll be able to then go out and have a, yeah, it's going to cost you significantly. And so that's sort of where it gets left. You know, the Broncos, again, they wanted to be able to have some flexibility. I think early in this process, Sean Peyton, you know, in his mind realized that this was going to be a challenge, this pairing with Russell Wilson, how he plays versus how Sean Peyton wanted to.

to kind of design his offense or what he thought healthy offensive markers needed to look like. And so there was that wedge relatively early on. And this obviously all came to a head there late October. They masked it fairly well. And I'm from the outside. You're there every day. You're in the locker room. You're talking to guys.

You're at the games, the pressers. And maybe you can get a feel. Maybe they're covering it up. But it is beyond wild to me that Russ started seven games after this threat. If that's the right word we want to use, it's got. to be lodged in the back of his mind. And whether Russ is a normal guy or not, that can be debated. But, like, that's not the best way to treat your franchise quarterback.

If he's your franchise quarterback or not in terms of, like, eh, we're not sure if we're going to believe in you past this year. Like, go start for us. Go start and win and keep us in the playoff race. This was bound to just unravel and be a disaster, right? Yeah, yeah, it's a lot to put. I mean, that's the thing about it. Like Russell Wilson on Friday, you know, so this has.

happens early in the in the buy week. So he spends the rest of that by week not really knowing if he is going to get back to the, you know, building when they start preparing for their road game at the bills as as the starting quarterback. Like to your point that he's, you know, he believes in this total neutral mindset. That's sort of his, his credo that he, you know, he puts preparation and focus above all else. But, but it's impossible not to have that be weighing on you. And then sure enough, he does start, goes out. and he beats the bills on the road on a Monday night. Has a couple of really fantastic plays in that game. A couple, you know, a touchdown to Cortland Sutton. Yeah, great throws. And then he did it the next week, right? And then kind of, yeah, did it the next week against the Vikings, against the Browns. They got that winning streak to five games.

And at that point, it was like they're six and five. The formula was wild. I mean, they're creating just a massive pile of turnovers. They're not giving the ball away. They're capitalizing enough on these short fields that they're getting. but even during this winning street, the offense was not was not humming. I think they were like 21st in efficiency or something like that.

And so it just kept it, in retrospect, it felt like they were continuing to wait for a, for a window to make this change. And again, they insisted fully that it was a football conversation. And, you know, that's where it gets weird because here's this guy, he's still your number two quarterback. For all of his, you know, nuanced sort of, all that comes with Russell Wilson, he was still, he's still respected in that locker room.

I think players were really impressed with how he bounced back from his 2022 season, you know, his leadership, all those sorts of things. So it was, it was a pretty seismic jolt to that locker room, you know, whether or not they thought that they needed a spark, which a lot of them agree they did. It was still this pretty wild thing that two weeks to go on the season when they still weren't even technically eliminated from the playoffs. Now, we saw the blow up against the Lions, right? Payton just going absolutely insane on the sideline and yelling at Russell and he can downplay it all he wants we saw what happened did you see any cracks did you hear of any

inner turmoil any budding of the heads because it's pretty clear that Sean Peyton just doesn't want Russell as his quarterback I mean right let's just come out and say it did you get a feel for that and I understand they were winning for a little bit then they started to come back to earth I mean Russell's been better this year but there's still a little bit to be desired with that offense is this just just comes down to Russ not being the quarterback Sean once? Yeah, and I think some of it is, like, for example, the Broncos, they're second worst in the NFL in goal to go offense.

And as they were starting to crumble late in the year, they had so many chances on, like, on the doorstep of the goal line that they squandered. You know, the case and point being at Houston, they're down by five, less than 30 seconds. in the game. They have a first and goal at the eight yard line. And Russell Wilson is unable to kind of finish that drive. End up throwing an interception in the end zone to steal that loss against Detroit. As you mentioned, that that blowup happened at the end of a failed goal to go drive. And those had just sort of piled up. In Sean Peyton's mind, I don't care about your stats as a quarterback. Your job is to lead us into the end zone and to be dead last or right near the

bottom in terms of that that critical area of the field and their overall red zone picture is poor as well. That's where that's where I think the disconnect really lied was that you have to be able to finish this. I need you to make the right reads. I need you to essentially lead us into the end zone a lot more frequently than you are. Again, he had 26 touchdowns, eight interceptions. His overall raw numbers looked a lot better than they did a year earlier. But the team efficiency, the team's ability to finish drives was lacking, and that's where the wedge really started to grow. And I'm not far, but, you know, I don't want to just, like, jump on a couple highlights or the games that I've watched, but it feels like he's not seeing the field very well.

And that has to drive a coach crazy. We've heard that for years. And you talked about those red zone struggles. Even going back to that Colts game last year in overtime, I remember, and this had to piss Broncos fans off. There was a guy that was wide open. He decided to force the ball. Stefan Gilmore makes the incompletion. that's got to be what's driving Sean Payton crazy.

I see a lot of batted balls. Russell's a little bit shorter, but also just not seeing the field and not just running the offense as Sean has designed it. I guess the question is there's no going back, right? Like there's no way these fences are mended and he's back as their starter or backup next year, even with the financials being what they are.

I can't envision a scenario in which that's possible. Now, the Broncos have insisted that they have not made long-term decision. Well, the decision is going to be made for them. You know, evaluate it once this season ends. It is. It is going to be made for them. Because, you know, look, and Russell Wilson, too, said on Friday, like, I would

genuinely love it, you know, love to continue playing here. So both sides have made that claim. But there's just no way that they could get past them like that. Sean Peyton doesn't want him as the quarterback. Like, and look, he might not, he might not feel like a personal, he might, maybe the, like, the personal feelings he has toward Russell Wilson, you know, get overblown. He said, you know, people that aren't, you know, kind of close to this program, like, they don't, they don't fully understand it.

But there's a clear distaste, disdain for the, like, the things he can't do in Schaude's offense. That's clear. And sometimes it's like, you're showing me these things is a lot more important than how you tell me. And the Detroit thing is a perfect example. You know, you can downplay it all you want, but that wasn't even the first. time a week earlier against the Chargers, he came off the field after a similar type situation.

And Sean Peyton reamed him there too. Did the same thing when they lost a game at home to the Jets. When they were driving for a potential go-ahead score, Russell Wilson didn't register the backside blitzer. Ball got stripped. Jets picked it up and ran for a game ceiling touchdown. It was just kind of in those moments. And to be fair, I think Russell Wilson did a lot of adapting. that you could question whether, you know, Sean Payton did enough on his end to kind of merge more of what Russell Wilson did well, which is, you know, operate a little bit out of structure, those sorts of things. So it's just a pairing that despite how excited Wilson was to work with Peyton at the beginning of this thing, just has been kind of disjointed from the very start. Since Peyton left for the most part, which is just crazy. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Oh, yeah. straight years without a playoff trip the second longest streak in the league only to the jets i mean when you think of the jets you think of dysfunction and unfulfilled expectations the broncos i just i wouldn't have guessed them being the second longest streak without the playoffs because they won a super bowl not that long ago but here we are my last question for you before we get you out of here on this dysfunction of the season what is the path forward for the broncos and what are they going to have to eat to move on from him and you wrote an interesting story last week about what are their options going to look like?

Because they're going to be hamstrung a little bit. Yeah, it's going to be really interesting because if they cut Russell Wilson, which I think is the most likely outcome that they just straight cut him before the league year begins in March, it would be an $85 million cap hit, dead money hit. That would currently double the previous record, which was when the Falcons, I know about that one. $40 million or so to trade. And then the Eagles did it the year before with Carson Wentz,

but it was more of like the 25 or 30 range. This is 85. Right. Right, right. And so there's some teams this year that are navigating okay with a lot of dead money on their books. The Buccaneers, as a result of the Tom Brady retirement and everything like that, have a lot of dead money. And so it will be interesting to see whether the Broncos just take that gigantic bite in one year and then completely reset their books after that and just try to, you know, build around the edges as best they can, or they make the decision to post-June 1 designate that

cut, and then it would be $35.5 million in dead money in 2024, and then about 50 million dead cap in 2025 when the cap goes up over the next couple years, probably a little more palatable by then. But the bigger question than the money, which is a substantial question, is who's going to play quarterback? You know, Jared Stidim is the guy they signed to a two-year deal. Sean Payton at the time says he's a guy who we think pretty good backup money right it was like in an NFL started two years 10 million dollars five million guaranteed that is noticeable for a backup deal so tells you something about what the Broncos

thought of Jared Stidham and the timing he was signed immediately after free agency began so it he was targeted they knew he was the guy that they were going after made it happen quickly and so yeah he he would be to me probably at this point the leader in the clubhouse. But they are going to examine, I'm sure, a lot of options in all avenues. I just can't see a scenario in which they are able to pay a quarterback big money. And quite frankly, probably shouldn't be in that kind of a market. The only thing that this team has not tried since Bateship retired is drafting the

blue chip quarterback. And they're still not in position to do that, right? They're going to be about the 14th, 15th pick in the draft. We well know that Caleb Williams and Drake May a league long gone by then, probably even Jayden Daniels as well. So do they draft a quarterback later in the first round, a guy like J.J. McCarthy, do they take more developmental guy, be it Bo Nix or Michael Pennix Jr.? It's going to be up to Sean Payton to see who he wants to guide that offense.

But, you know, you're going to have to be a tough skin son of a gun as a rookie quarterback to play in Sean in his offense. He had Breeze forever and Breeze was never really something that he's done. And then Russell had 10 years under his belt for Seattle. That's a really good point. Yeah. And then even the fillings, like kind of during Breeze's career, a couple times he got injured, it was Teddy Bridgewater, who was obviously well-traveled by then.

It was James Winston who had already played five, six years in Tampa Bay. So they, yeah, he is not, he has not, you know, Taseham Hill early in his career, but not a traditional quarterback, obviously used him in different ways. I think the only rookie that ever started a game for him. in New Orleans was Ian Book, who I believe was a fourth rounder and played one game. So, yeah, he has not developed a rookie quarterback into a starter. And I'd be very surprised if that was ultimately the path that they took. Well, I could definitely see them drafting a quarterback, but I think they will go the veteran route next year, whether it's Stidham, whether it's a guy like James Winston, who Sean has worked with in the past.

It will be really interesting to see how it plays out. But yeah, this is headed for a divorce, and they're going to have to be economical at that position. The Nathaniel Hackett era lasted, what, 15 games. And the Russell Wilson era lasted, let's say, 20, 27 games. Go back to March 22. This is why your story. Yeah, 30 starts. I mean, think about March of 2022, the optimism in that building, in that city.

I mean, Denver is a great football town, and they brought in the guy that was supposed to lift them up from all this quarterback abyss. and here we are a year and a half, two years later, and it's just been so messy, and just it looks like it's going to be a bitter finish for both. This is just crazy because you just think they were ready to climb in the AFC West, and it just fell apart. Last thing before I let you go, you've watched Russ's last two years.

He's still a starter in this league, right? I just wonder at the right price where he would fit, because like you said a minute ago, there's a little bit more that comes with him. Yeah, and I think he will be an attractive option for teams that are looking for, you know, that proverbial bridge starter, maybe two years. I think the benefit is going to be that because of the offset language in his contract, he'll essentially be playing for the veteran minimum for whoever signs him because he will be getting paid his money next year from the Broncos. So it's going to be interesting to see how that unfolds because I do think that will make him a guy that teams look at and say, yeah, you know, a cheap veteran quarterback who, who's accomplished, who certainly made strides.

I mean, there's like, there's like 15 backups playing right now. So they're like teams are going to need a quarterback. Oh, yeah. I just wonder, can Russ be a backup? I don't think, I don't see that. Like, would you disagree? I, no, I don't see that either. That's hard for me.

That's hard for me to think. It's just not the way that he views himself. I ultimately think that, you know, he has talked about wanting to play into his 40s and whatnot. I think at some point, you know, the reality will set in that because of the way he plays and what he needs physically to be able to do that. I don't think he's the kind of candidate for a guy that's going to play that deep.

And so when he doesn't have a starting opportunity, you know, again, I would question whether he's suited to be like a four or five years backup kind of guy. I think he'd be ready to move on to other things. He's going to be a governor someday, I think. So it's, he's going to have an opportunity to do a lot of different things after his career is over. So hard for me to think he's going to spend four or five years. years, you know, as a backup quarterback. I just don't envision that. But I do think that he has, he has a couple years left of being, you know, a productive starter somewhere. Somebody that can

really tailor, tailor their game around him. It's going to be kind of like some of those, some of those Seahawks years where maybe early in his career where it was just, it was all defense leading you. He could still take some big shots and all those sorts of things. But, you know, a team like Pittsburgh that I think could build a really solid, you know, foundation around him, you know, makes some sense. New England. Atlanta makes a lot of sense. Yeah, there's going to be teams that need a veteran starter. And like you said, he will be more attractive because the Broncos are paying him all the money.

Yeah. Yeah. So there's going to be options for him. I would be surprised if he's not a week one starter in 2024. That's just not for a crazy. If you think back to that trade, what they gave up, the optimism and how it just fell apart within two years. The coach is out. Now the quarterback is very much out.

and the Broncos are going to have to go find another answer to the post-manning quarterback situation, which they haven't really answered in almost 10 years. But thanks for hopping on, Nick. It's been an exhausting week for you. All your great coverage is at the athletic, and we appreciate it, and we'll catch up with you down the line, hopefully in more peaceful, quiet, less stressful times. Thanks so much, Zach. Appreciate it. Happy New Year. You too, ma'am.

All right, that's a wrap. On a very busy week 17 around the NFL, I want to thank Nick Cosmiter in Denver. Jeff Zrebeck in Baltimore, Zach Jackson in Cleveland for hopping on on very busy Mondays and New Year's Day to share some insights on their teams. We will have a full slate of shows this week. The Week 18 preview was so much on the line, so many playoff spots still to be decided. Prospect of Prospect of Pros, Football GM, you guys know the rundown. Busy week in the NFL coming up. It's going to be a lot of fun.

Thanks for listening, and we will catch up with you guys after week 18. This was the athletic football shows Kiefer. the beats.