The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Keefer and the Beats: Peeling back the curtain in Week 3

Episode Date: September 26, 2023

Is this a must win year for the Chargers? Could the Browns defense be the best in football? With their best player on the sideline, the Colts are 2-1. Zak Keefer is joined by Chargers beat writer Daniel Popper, Browns beat writer Zac Jackson and Colts beat writer James Boyd to discuss all of this and more on this episode of The Athletic Football Show. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show's Kiefer and the Beats. Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. This is Zach Kiefer here to peel back the curtain just a little bit on week three in the NFL. We had some history in Miami from the Dolphins. We had Taylor Swift making appearance at Arrowhead. Justin Fields and Zach Wilson continued to play some really bad football. The Packers stunned the Saints with 18 straight and the fourth. The Cowboys are no longer undefeated.

They lost to an Arizona team that looks a lot better than a lot. lot of us thought they would, but we're going to start here with three games that didn't quite get as much attention. First up are the Chargers, who survived a gutsy call, possibly even reckless, from Brandon Staley late and a four-point win over the Vikings. I had a really frank and honest and nuanced conversation with our Chargers beatwriter Daniel Popper about the context behind the decision and the state of a team that in his words has to win this year. From there, I'll check in with Zach Jackson in Cleveland. where so far the Browns and not the Cowboys have the best defense in football.

It's about time we dug into this unit. The numbers that Zach dug up about the Browns defense right now are utterly insane. Jim Swartz, Miles Garrett, and that unit are just wrecking teams so far. And lastly, I'll catch up with my former beat writer in Indy, James Boyd, who was on hand yesterday in the rain in Baltimore for the Colts overtime upset of Lamar Jackson and the Ravens. This was a team, remember, that was marred by the soap opera of Jonathan Taylor during training camp. And quietly, Shane Steichen has done a tremendous job as a first-time coach, considering their star rookie quarterback Anthony Richardson, has only played five quarters so far.

That's a team that's in first place in the AFC South. But let's start here. Let's start with the Chargers and dig in with Dan Popper. All right, let's start here. Chargers 28, Vikings 24, and that doesn't tell half the story. We've got Daniel Popper here, our Chargers Beat Rider, who's back from Minnesota, a wild game. You said it lived up to all the expectations you had. But I want to start with your lead, because there was a late decision in this game that a lot of people are debating 24 hours later.

Here's what you wrote. There was rock bottom inches away from the falling Los Angeles chargers, their feet so very close to scraping the jagged stones below. A bold decision to go for it on fourth and inches, a failed rushing attempt, a hostile stadium erupting, and only 24 yards of grass separating the Minnesota Vikings from victory and the chargers from a potentially organizing shifting 0-and-3 start. Let's just jump right in. They decide to go for it on that fourth and inches from their own 24-yard line.

You've covered this team for a while. You know Brandon Staley. Your surprise level and just relay your thoughts and reaction to how it all unfolded. Yeah, not surprised. because even on the 24 well i go back to cleveland week five last year which i wrote about in the story brandon staley the chargers had a two point lead over the browns and he went for it on a fourth and one from his own 46 yard line um didn't get it Justin Herbert through to mike williams incomplete browns take over moving to field goal range and k york misses a 54 yard field goal

to win it after the game. Keenan Allen's tweeting, what the F are we doing, eventually deletes the tweet. So, like, they've been through a very similar situation before. If anything, like this is probably less risky than that

because you're protecting a four-point lead as opposed to a two-point lead. Yeah, the Vikings needed to touch. I mean, here's where I'm at with it. Like, he is going to trust in his analytic staff. He is going to trust in their modeling in these types of situations for the most part. And in this type of situation where you have one play and you will win the game if you convert on that one play and it's fourth and inches, which is like historically like a 75% conversion rate, you know, in the NFL, like the math is going to tell you to go for it.

Now you can go to different models, like different models will have it between 8% to 10%. I don't know specifically what the charges had at, but that is a massive amount of win probability added based on the modeling. And so he's going to make that decision. The problem is he's not. as consistent with these decisions as he was in year one. Year one, he was an aggressive decision maker. He was trusting the math. He was gaining expected points, win probability, whatever you want to look at. He was gaining that with his decision making. Now he's much less consistent. And you can literally go back to week two when he punted on a fourth and two from the Tennessee

45 yard line where like every model is going to have that as a go as well. See, that's interesting that he's changing a little bit. And I asked him after the game. I'm like, have you been, like, you're going to face backlash over this. Like, that's just the reality of making decisions like this. You know, a lot of older fans just can't wrap their mind around this type of decision making. And I asked him, like, has the backlash and public reaction to these decisions affected you at all? And he said, no, like, I wouldn't have gone for it. Do you believe that? Do you believe that at all? Because you can point to specific decisions that he's made that go against that, that show that he's actually changing. Like, the Brandon's daily of 2021 would have gone for it on fourth and two of the plus 45 every single time. Now, has he changed because of public backlash? I don't think so.

I think he's changed because he has a lot more faith in the punt unit. And I think that he has a lot more faith in his defense for whatever reason. Should he have faith in that defense? No. Because he has faith in himself. Herber's tearing it up and they're one and two. Right. And Keenan Allen's catching 18 balls yesterday.

I mean, points are not the problem on that side of the ball. Yeah, yeah. And so, like, I don't think he should have as much faith in his defense, but he has faith in himself, and it is his defense, and he is the play caller. But it has changed. Like, it 100% has changed. But, like, in this game, for him to go for it in that situation, I'm not surprised because, like, he's made decisions like that before.

Like I said, going back to Cleveland in 2022. Three games in, they avoid the 0-and-3 start, which wouldn't have been to death now, but it wouldn't have been good. And this is a team, like, tell me why the chargers are not the chargers of old. Because for about 10 to 15 years, with rare exception, they're a pretty good roster who seems to underachieve. Whether it's Philip Rivers or Justin Herbert. I like this roster. Like, tell me why there's, tell me why this team is one and two right now when you've got an ascending quarterback throwing for 400 yards a game.

It's got to be more than the defense, but like, where is this team at? I mean, they've got one of their highest priced cornerbacks a healthy scratch yesterday, dealing with some off the field stuff that's just not good. You know, I think the constructive exercises to compare this season to previous Brandon's daily seasons. Now, obviously, ownership hasn't changed. The GM hasn't changed. But that's how I like to look at it. And yeah, they won.

Yeah, they're one and two. Yeah, they avoided disaster. But what's different about this team than even going back to 2021? It doesn't feel like it. Exactly. And I rolled through it in the story I wrote after the game. Like they can't stop the run. They gave up 5.4 yards per carry. They're still giving up way too many explosive plays. They gave up seven explosive passes. They went into a game where they had to stop one player on the other side and they couldn't do it.

And they gave up 149 yards receiving to Justin Jefferson. You know, I went back and looked like nobody since the start of 2021 has given up more 140 yard games to a single receiver than the Chargers. This is their ninth time doing it since they only took over. another stat that I pulled, okay? The Chargers have allowed three different players to go over 175 receiving in a single game. That's in 36 games, now 37 games. Bill Belichick has allowed one player to do it one time in 23 plus seasons. Holy shit.

That's the standard, right? Who was that player? Do you know? Demarius Thomas in 2012. There you go. Well, Peking in the Broncos, right. Yeah, yeah. So, like, you know, they can't, like, you go into a game saying, like, okay, we're going to stop this guy.

And they doubled him on every single play. And they still gave up 149 yard receiving. They still gave up a 52-yard touchdown that gave the Vikings the lead. Okay, 21 to 10 lead in the second half. They have all the momentum. The stadium at U.S. Bank Stadium is quiet. Keenan Allen hits Mike Williams in a wide receiver pass. That game should be over.

And yet you give a back-to-back 30-plus yard touchdowns for the Vikings to come back in the game. Like, they can't run the ball. That was why they changed offensive coordinators from Joe Lombardi to Kellan Moore. The whole thing was we're going to be able to run the ball. the offensive line is going to be the strength of our team. And the running backs combined for 19 yards on 13 carries against the Vikings team that came into the game 31st in rushing success rate on defense. It's like it's the same problems.

And like, you know, I found it really interesting that on Monday, like a week ago, you know, Brandon Staley said like if we had won both those games close against the Dolphins and Titans, we'd still have the same problems. If we were two and out, we'd still have the same problems. Right? Yeah. The same thing applies if you win. Correct.

The same issues still exist. O and three, one and two, two and one, whatever the record is, like these issues have persisted. And the excuses run out at a certain point because the Chargers spent more cash on their defense than any team in the league last year. And yeah, there's some things that are out of their control like J.C. Jackson getting hurt and not turning into the player that they wanted. But they have all the personnel that they can ask for. and it's just not clicking defensively. And that's like a big issue for this team. Like the only thing consistently week to week that you can count on if you're the

Chargers is number 10. Yeah. And that's it. And that's the same thing as it was in 2020. He's great. That's a tough way to live though. Exactly. Let me ask you this.

They won't say this publicly, but are there residual effects from the 27 to zero blown lead in the playoffs? I know it was eight months ago and you move on, but like, that doesn't happen to a lot of teams. And I know they finished yesterday and the Vikings had 10 plays in the red zone on their last two possessions. They didn't score any points. But do you feel any after effects of the way last season ended? Because that had to just stick in their throat for a long time.

I mean, you try and humanize the players, right? And I don't think that happens enough when people talk about sports in general. But let's say you as an individual suffer like the most crippling public embarrassment possible. And then eight months later, you have to go back out in public and do the exact same thing that you were doing when you suffered that public embarrassment. You're telling me you're not going to think about it at all. Like it's it's human nature. Absolutely. Now, how does that express itself?

Like, like how does that how does that materialize? You know, I can't tell you, you know, because I can't get inside, you know, these players' minds when it's inside two minutes. But, like, you can sense, like, a palpable kind of dread in those moments and, like, that it's going to go wrong. And the players have talked about that publicly. Now, they got it done yesterday, but how much of that was actually them doing it and how much of it was the Vikings collapsing and doing, you know, just being worse in those situations of the Chargers, the only team worse than the Chargers in the late game situations. Like, they convert, like, third and 11, you had a, Michael Davis had a. illegal hands to the face penalty that gave the Vikings a fresh set of downs. You had Kirk Cousins converting on a fourth and six. They're at the six yard line first and goal 30 seconds left and they don't

spike the ball to stop the clock and get in the right play call. Is that the chargers like executing in a late? It's not their fault, but they also, I don't know how much credit they deserve for that. Exactly. So I do give Nick Neiman credit, who is the four string linebacker in the game. You know, he anticipated the route. He was waiting for that three by one look all game and knew that T. J. Hawkinson was going to run a stick route to the goal line out of that formation. He jumped it and made it a difficult catch and sort of forced the interception. So I will give them credit there. They had a goal line stand on the previous drive for the Vikings. And so they had two really goal line stops to win the game and you have to give them credit there. But I think like inevitably

there has to be residual effects of the Jacksonville game. And like you said, it's going to be impossible to like get anyone to say that on the record. But it's only human nature. And like that's just like what I believe, you know. We learned today. that Mike Williams Taurz A's A's L out for the year. That's a big blow. But Keenan Allen was absolutely incredible yesterday. 18 catches on 20 targets for 2.15. Where is this offense at without Mike Williams moving the rest of the way? Because Echler's been in and out. He's a tremendous player, but it seems like the quarterback. If you're going to have one guy be the best player on your team being the guy you can count on every week, that's the quarterback. That's what you want it to be

the quarterback. But can they live this roller coaster existence for the next 15 weeks? Yeah, I mean, they're going to be in it. Like, they're going to have a shot just because Justin is that good. But it's hard to overstate how big of a role Mike Williams plays in this offense. And without him, now you have to turn to a rookie in Quentin Johnson, who they really wanted to bring along slowly. Like, that was the plan. Not anymore. They really, they loved his skill set, but he was raw.

Raw in terms of his route running and polish and the physical aspect of the game, but also from a mental standpoint in terms of lining up correctly in terms of learning and NFL. playbook, all of those different things that go into it. And there's a reason that he's been playing limited snaps early on because they wanted to bring him along slowly. That plans out the window. Like now he's got to be on the field because they need the snaps, but also because Mike Williams is their real deep threat. Now he's not the fastest guy, but he can access those parts of the field and really wins as like a 50-50 ball type guy. And that's what Quentin Johnson's going to have to provide for them. The other thing I would say is like, Kenan's had a tremendous start to the season,

but a big part of that is how they were deciding to use Mike and Kellyn Moore's offense. Now, I looked up the stats. Now, through training camp, I had noticed that Michael Williams was playing in the slot a lot more than he had in Joe Lombardi's offense. But now through three games, like the numbers bear that out. Like he was at 13.7% in the slot in 2021, 13.1% in 2022 through three games, he was close to 30% in the slot. Now, what that does is exactly. So when you have a guy that's 6-4 with his hands, his catch radius, his contested ball, in the slot with a two-way go in option routes,

now you kind of have to double Mike out of the slot. And what does that allow with Keenan to do? It means Keenan can go on the outside and have single coverage. And Keenan and single coverage is a matchup you really like. But without Mike, Keenan's getting double on pretty much every player. And Kenan was open for a lot of those catches yesterday. Lots of separation. Now that's a credit to him, but also, like you said.

Yeah. And so a big part of that was, you know, Brian Flores blitzed Justin Herbert on 41 of his 49 dropbacks. They played cover zero like 30% of their defensive snaps. So they were like, let's try and get as much pressure as possible, but they were playing man behind it. And they did not have the corners to match up with Keenan anywhere on the field. And so he was creating a ton of separation,

those man-to-man matchups. But if you can now focus all your energy on Keenan Allen, that forces these other guys to step up. That's Josh Palmer. That's Quentin Johnston. And it makes it even more difficult with Austin Echler dealing with what he said is a high ankle sprain. You know, that's a guy that you feel like can win one-on-one matchups,

but he's not on the field. and you're getting a significant drop off there to Joshua Kelly. And they decided not to invest in their tight ends this offseason. So you have a group of Gerald Everett, Donald Parham, and Trey McKittie and Stone Smart. That's, you know, solid receiving options, but nothing that's going to make a defense scared of doubling or investing all their resources and defending Keenan Allen. So, like, that's, like, in terms of a long-term view of what losing Mike Williams means, obviously there's the production. But I think what he meant and his role meant to what Keenan Allen was seeing in terms of coverages is going to be a massive story. And I wouldn't be surprised if Keenan, you know, his production suffers as a result.

Herbert was 40 of 47 yesterday for 405 and three touchdowns, video game type stuff. Yeah. Two more questions. They're going forward on fourth and inches. Any part of you a little surprised they didn't throw it because of what Herbert was doing, because of the separation Keenan Allen was getting because maybe the Vikings weren't unexpected if they did blitz again. I get the fourth and inches.

You're just running up the butt. Like the touch push, right? I get that too. Herbert's huge. Why not just call that? Well, the Vikings had like four interior defensive linemen, you know, concentrated close to the center. So they didn't like the look. But they ran the band play to. Well, yeah. So you also have to factor in that, you know, Justin Herbert fractured his rib cartilage last year. And like the idea of him getting injured is on their minds. And that's like a big thing with this whole, you know, just do what the Eagles do. Well, like not every quarterback is as strong in their lower half as Jalen Hertz is. Like,

he's kind of unique in that way. And so, like, you are, in a sense, like, putting your quarterback at risk. But what they said, as far as not sneaking it, was the front. So it's tough because, like, you know, we can all, you know, Monday morning quarterback this thing, right? And say, like, well, you should have thrown it. But let's say they put Justin and shotgun and he tries to hit Keenan on a slant and they read it and break it up. What are we all saying today? You need six inches.

Why aren't you sneaking? You're right. You're right. You're right. But also, I can live with going for your. best player. I can live with putting the ball in the hands of your best player. Yeah, but I don't think that the, like, I don't think that the narrative after that Cleveland game was like, oh, they put it in Justin's hands. That's no problem. Like, people still had an issue with the play call, even though they put it in

Justin's hands and let him make a decision. I didn't decide to go for it on fourth of inches for my own 24. No, and I'm not trying to defend them, but like, let's talk, because I think it's really valuable when we're talking about this stuff to like get into the granular parts of it. Yeah. Right. Okay. So fourth and one last week against the Titans, they run a play out of the exact same formation with the exact same motion pre-snap with the exact same personnel outside of Keenan Allen being in for Mike Williams. The only reason Mike wasn't in is because he had torn his ACL and he was out of the game. Okay. So what the play was was a fake handoff to Kelly, Joshua Kelly out of that fullback spot and then a pitch to Darius Davis, their speed wide receiver

to the outside. Darius Davis converts on that fourth and one. So what they come back this week is, hey, the Vikings have seen that play and that formation on team. And you wrote about this. And they went with a variation of it. So instead of faking the handoff to Echler and pitching to Davis, they handed off to Kelly. And you can go back and rewatch the game. I haven't gotten the 22 yet, but even on a TV broadcast, you can see that the edge rusher for the Vikings jumps the Davis. He makes a great play. And so, you know, they were waiting for that play. And the Chargers, it did in a sense catch them off guard with a variation off of us, the same fourth in one play they ran the previous week. The problem is they didn't invest in their tight end group this

off season. So we had Donald Parham up against a defensive line in number 90 there. And he and Trey Pipkins to execute the block, there's penetration, and Kelly is stuffed. But like, I think in the moment, I was like, that's a terrible play call. But when I really dove into it, like, there was intention there with the play call. And they were trying to, you know, call a variation off a tendency that they showed on film. And they did get the Vikings in a position where they were waiting for that play. And that variation didn't a sense catch them off guard. The problem is you just don't have the tight end to execute that block. And so, like, I was less, you know, I understood the play call more when dove into it. But, you know, at the same time, it didn't work. And, you know, you're going to get

criticized for it when you make a decision like that. And, and, you know, you take the ball out of your hands of your best player, like you were alluding to. See, that's the context that's so important. That's the context that, like, beat writers can bring to the game. It's like, yeah, everyone's just going to be like, that was a terrible call. It's like, whoa, well, here's the story behind it. Here's why they called it. If you disagree or agree, that's fine. But at least you can understand the Chargers thinking. I think that's important. Last thing, and I'll let you go, is the rest of this season, a referendum on Brayland Staley's future in L.A.? I don't know what they're thinking long term. They brought in Kellen Moore this year. They're scoring a million points,

but it just feels like there's going to be another situation where there's a fourth and one, and there's going to be another one down the line. And they just, they keep living with these one-score games, and that's a tough way to live in this league. The good news, the division's not as good as we thought. The Raiders are not any good. The Broncos are terrible right now. The Chiefs are the Chiefs, but it feels like there's still an opening for the Chargers to climb back. There's a long way to go and get in the playoffs. Yeah. Those were the stakes before the season.

Like, I don't think this start to the season has changed anything. Like, this was a referendum on Staley. This was a referendum on Tom Telesco, who has two playoff wins in 11 seasons as GM. Like, everything led to this moment to this season. And you knew Herbert was going to be good. You knew the offense was going to be good with Kellyn Moore. The question is, like, can Brandon Staley put together even a, league average defense.

Like that's all you need. And that's what I think is most frustrating about this for a lot of Chargers fans is that like they look at it and they're like, look at Justin Herbert. Look at how good he is. If we just had Gus Bradley's defense. Don't waste him. Right. Like if we just had Gus Bradley's defense,

which was like anywhere between the 22nd best defense and like the 12th best defense year over year, but that was the floor in the ceiling, this team's a playoff team. And so right now the Chargers are a bad defense. you know, and as the season goes along, they're only going to, you know, be dealing with more injuries. Now, Derwin James is a hamstring injury.

Safety depth was an issue coming in this season. J.T. Woods comes in for Derwin James, and guess what? Whiffs on a tackle on Justin Jefferson, that should have been a 12-yard game and goes from 52 yards. And so you're off to a rough start. Can the defense turn it around and finally give Justin Herbert some complimentary football so that he doesn't have to play hero mode every single week? But it's like you go back to 2021 and you go back to that Raiders game in week 18

where he played. the most ridiculous fourth quarter in overtime leading the charges back. Oh my gosh, that game was insanity. I wrote after that game, like, it is up to this organization to make sure this never happens again. Like, give him a supporting cast because he's obviously good enough to get to the mountaintop. And here we are two years later, and we're saying the same stuff. And so, like, that falls on everyone involved with the organization. And so, like, they have to win this year.

That was the, that was, those were the expectations heading into 2023. and the fact that they're one and two doesn't change that. Like, it still has to happen. And that's just the reality of it. And it's how they've gotten to one and two. It's the exact same story that you've been talking about for two years, like you said. They should win so many games like 42 to 21. I just feel like they should win a lot of games like that this season, but they're not.

And so Staley's job is to fix the defense. But they're going to be fascinating no matter what. So we're going to have you back on. Thanks for jumping on after a long day of work and a long day of travel. But we appreciate it, dude, and we'll catch you up down the line. Sounds good, Zach. Thanks for having me. All right. Next up, Zach Jackson in Cleveland. Browns 27, Titans 3.

Browns are 2 and 1, and I want to start here. You dug up some incredible numbers about this defense. We haven't had you on this season, but my God, this defense is destroying teams. And I know they haven't played like the best offenses in the league, but they embarrassed Cincinnati in the opener. So let's just run through these numbers real quick because these are just incredible. The defense so far in three games has given up 18 points total. On Sunday against Tennessee, they allowed 94 total yards and only six first downs,

2.1 yards per play. And this is the stat you dug up. This is the most impressive thing. When you take out the kneel downs, the best way to summarize Cleveland's defense so far, they have given up one offensive touchdown in 34 series. Did you see this coming, or is it just? a wow from you every Sunday. What is Jim Schwartz doing?

Yeah, well, whatever he's doing, it's working. He's kind of walking around like Connor McGregor, and it's fun. I knew they were going to be good, Zach. They had pieces. They had pieces that fit what he wants to do, and I knew they were going to swarm the Bengals in week one because the Bengals had no timing, no training camp. Yeah.

I knew they'd be a problem for Kenny Pickett, but they sped him up to the point that it was an absolute nightmare. I can remember two plays that they made, the whole night, one gets a first down and one George Pickens goes 71 and that burns the Browns. But yesterday was over from the start. The Titans have a bad offensive line, a bad quarterback, and everybody in the stadium knew if Tanniel had to drop back and throw that it was trouble. And like on the fourth play, he had to drive back and throw because they couldn't get anything. So to me, it's that they're almost unblockable up front. It's different guys. It's different

alignments. But they're just getting in the back field and the guys behind them are just flowing and cleaning plays up. And so, you know, it's been right place at the right time. It's been otherworldly by Miles Garrett, but it's honestly been a team effort from scheme to bad quarterbacks to sensing blood and just every single guy going to get it. It's got to be so fun for these guys, for these defensive players to just, for lack of a better phrase, eat every single week. My favorite moment from Sunday, and you wrote about this, is literally the Titans using two tight ends to basically like shadow Miles Garrett. And he's doing these things where he just like bobs and weaves on the defensive line. It doesn't matter where he lines up. he's the best defensive player in football right now for my money.

Like, have you ever seen anything like that? And what are these guys saying about Miles Garrett? I read what Stefansky said. Like, every team's like, all they do is talk all week about stopping 95, but nobody can do it. Yeah, I mean, I've seen outrageous game plans and I've seen, you know, what Schwartz wants, which is teams adjusting what they normally do, which they've done for seven months now, right, to block one guy. But two guys chasing him, no.

And then the flip side of that is leaving him single blocks. in the biggest play of the game yesterday at the end of the half and then going to get him. So, you know, they looked and they said, okay, we know we have Miles and we have this coordinator that can unlock him. They gave $12 million to Okraunqua, who they feel like is an emerging rusher. He's a third down player. They saw the opportunity to go against Zerias Smith. They did. So, you know, it's Miles greatness.

To me, one of the underrated, understated things is Dalvin Tomlinson in the middle, just being so solid. The Browns had the worst D tackle group in the league last year. And that showed because teams were able to be. their pass rush by just running right at them, you know, and keeping them on their heels. But nobody's even begun. I think it's 53 plays in three games that have gone for zero yards or loss. So it's not just Talbans and Tomlinson. It's other guys that are getting back. It's ridiculous. So, you know, the numbers are outrageous and the timing has been good. Like there's a play late third quarter, week one, T. Higgins is open. The ball is slightly

under thrown. Grand Deltbuck comes flying out of nowhere and knocks it away. You know, if that's a touchdown, then the whole fourth quarter is different than numbers are not, but it's not. You know, yesterday, if the Titans get a touchdown or even get the field goal, get something going, the whole game's different, but they get one play to start the third quarter with Derek Henry nine yards and they lose. The Titans only points yesterday. They lost nine yards on the drive. They recovered a fumble and had three straight losing plays.

So this is stuff that when it happens once, you're like, oh my gosh, that's great. They got them sniffed out. But it's happened for three games in a row now. So it's still only three games, but they can make their case as one of the elite defenses in the league. I was going to ask you that. Okay, so everyone before this week was talking about one team having the best defense in football, and that's the Dallas Cowboys. They got upset by the Arizona Cardinals, a team a lot of people expected to have the number one pick by the season's end. Are the Brown's defenders welcoming talk of being the number one defense? Are they talking about

that? Are they saying, forget about Dallas? Look at what we're doing, because not a lot of people are paying attention to what they're doing in Cleveland. Here's what's interesting. Some of them are, I think Schwartz encourages it, and they should. Miles Garrett is dancing around it. And I think in the past, Miles Garrett's been a little guilty of being caught up in some of the outside hoopla. And I can do this and I can do that. And it hasn't followed through. So we'll see.

You know, Schwartz came in and he said, we're going to lead the league and swag in celebration. Oh, so far they are. Yeah. If a guy makes a big play and his teammates don't celebrate it, Schwartz marks it as a loaf, right? And he gets called out of the meeting room. Like they want to do that. Yeah.

So these are all things that like in training camp comes back. you roll your eyes like, of course, like we've heard this all the court. The Browns have a new staff every two years. So we've heard all the same stuff over and over again. But here is finally like, okay, they knew they were changing coordinators. This was their first choice. They got him. He came and he said, this is what I want to do and this is what we need to do.

And so far, like I said, it's only three games, but it is surpassing anyone's expectations, including Schwartz's. And I said, like people said, hey, if Schwartz is the best offseason acquisition, what does that mean? And I said, it probably means good. because nobody really doubted the talent here. People thought they just needed to clean up the fundamentals. People needed to see relentless Miles Garrett all the time instead of just part of the time.

So for three games, it's out of this world. I mean, they're giving up like 160 yards a game. The next closest is 200 yards away. And 21 first downs in three games. The next closest going into yesterday was 26, going in. All right. This is maybe the most wild stat of all that you dug up. Per true media, the Browns have allowed zero or negative yards

on 53.3% of their defensive snaps this season. That is insane in a passing league. I want to ask you this, and you talked about a couple other guys not named Miles Garrett. Who's a guy that's doing their job really well that maybe not a lot of people are talking about right now? There's two that come to mind, and I'm shortened some other guys, honestly.

That's how good it's been. But it's J.O.K., Jeremiah Usookormo, the third-year linebacker. He's not for everybody because he's about 215 pounds, but he's super fast. He reads plays and he closes in a hurry. He hasn't been able to stay healthy the last two years, but the guys in front of him are causing havoc, and he's coming to clean up.

And then Grand Alpert, who's in a contract year, we, you know, he had injuries early in his career, and we've seen a couple of big games, but we really hadn't seen it. And frankly, he had a quiet summer, and then all of a sudden he's out there dominating the Bengals game, dominating the Steelers game with the early turnover. So, you know, those guys taking a leap has been huge.

They didn't have Newsom yesterday, and it didn't matter. They have, to me, the best corner trio in the league. they went and got Juan Thornhill to solidify the safety spot, dealt with playing at a new level. And then we really didn't know about the linebackers because Anthony Walker and Taki Taki were both coming off major injuries and didn't play at all in the preseason. They were practicing one day, not the next. J.O.K. was kind of in and out, so we didn't see it.

But J.O.K. has been all over the place. And, Zach, if I got done after this and went back and picked a random series from the Tennessee game or the Steelers game, again, there'd be like another guy where I felt like, man, I should have answered that differently because that's how good it's been. There was a ball yesterday that Tana Hill tries to jam in there. And Denzel wards all over the guy. Like, he's not open. He throws it anyway.

By the time it gets there, two other guys almost pick it off. Like, they have been all over the place. It's a good problem to have. So we've talked all day about the Browns defense, and they deserve every minute of it. But they're two and one. And life is good when the defense allows three points in the opener and three points yesterday.

Let's talk about the quarterback. From what I've seen, not very good. Not very good for two games, much better yesterday. Where is Deshawn Watson at? Because that might be determined how far this team goes and a very competitive AFC North. Well, it absolutely will determine it. Do I think after yesterday you have to say he's trending up, yes.

Even in his bad days, we've seen good throws. Yesterday, we saw more of them in a short amount of time. He said he controlled his emotions. He felt like he was in the game. So now, he's been bad. I agree. There's no getting around it. For most of training camp, it was uneven.

The deep passing game is still non-existent. But he can hurt you with his feet. he can make the throw to the sideline. I think a sign of growth. Amarrey Cooper drew like four penalties yesterday. They were all in big spots. And that's to me growth. He's saying we're in a big spot.

I need to go to my best player. And so would you like it to see more consistent, take the simple ones? Yes. But they have had to change their own line. They did lose Nick Chubb. It's still a new offense. So it's like the excuses are mounting and you roll your eyes and you say they paid

this guy a lot of money. It's not like he's a rookie. But if you see, hey, yesterday there was three good quarters, and that's more than there were in the first two games combined. You know, last year there was like two good quarters at a time for the most. You know, maybe they're finding a groove, spreading things out. So, you know, it's too early to say. I think you have to take yesterday as a positive. I think you have to say it's a work in progress and you have to just see because there will be better challenges. I mean, he poured it on yesterday

when Tennessee was done. Yeah. And the defense has given him a a lot of chances. Right. But he is tough to defend because there is the element of running, of improvising, of doing those things. And I just think he's still trying to get on the same page with everybody, his play caller, his blockers, his past catchers in terms of when to take the quick, simple one, and when to really try to extend it and make that magic happen.

Because are the excuses legitimate? Because, you know, obviously he was out of football for so long. And he wasn't good last year when he came in. And he wasn't good the first couple of weeks. And, you know, I covered the Colts for a long time. So I saw a lot of Watson. in Houston. And he played, he didn't play with fear. He played very decisively. And even when they were four and 12, his last season, he was one of the best players in football. And I just don't see

that in him right now. You saw an uptick yesterday. What are the subtle things he's just not doing that are leading to the inconsistencies? Well, mostly he's either not seeing or he's not trusting what he sees. But yesterday, he did see, like I said, he wanted to go to Cooper. Yeah, yeah. I would say this. Last year the excuses were valid, which made it harder to evaluate. This year, I think some of them are valid. I think some of them aren't. But if you look and you say, okay, the first quarter yesterday was yikes. The next three were good. And, you know, he said the right things about poise, about communication, about all the things that were lacking before, then maybe it is turning up. So the Ravens obviously are going to be a different challenge.

You know, last year in his six games, he played each of the three division rivals once. And then this week we'll complete the cycle of playing them all again. He was just okay against Cincinnati. The weather stopped. He was bad for a while. He rebounded. He was awful against Pittsburgh. And then last year, he was pretty good against the Baltimore.

It was only two touchdown drives. But I think you really saw an improved version there. And then now he has a chance to build on it. Because last year, there was only one good game. He didn't build on it the next week to Steelers build him up. If he builds on it now going forward, then you can say there's progress in that yesterday was the start of a breakthrough. I hesitate to say that right now because he's been so bad, but he was really good yesterday,

and the numbers are a ton better than they've been really at almost any point, except that Washington game last year. You just say that because you've covered the Browns for so long, and you guys can't have nice things. Zach, I have a PhD in bad quarterbacking, so I know it when I see it, right? Hey, I covered a lot the last couple years in Indy, but I think you trump me times 10. Last thing, and I'll let you go, are they behind them? Do the guys believe in this guy? Like, that matters a lot in a locker room, do the players, especially on offense?

I mean, they know what he makes. They know what he makes and they know how he's played. Yeah. I think they do. You know, I think that they are enough new guys and enough young guys. And then you have like the Joel Betonios and the Wyatt Tellers and what choice do they have, they have to, right? They recently Ethan Poshick this year. So just talking to some of those guys last year when the locker room was divided and the defense was trashing the coordinator after every game and things were gone sideways.

I think the right guys in the locker room were saying the right things about this is where we're going to go. and we need to be better as a line. We need to be better in the huddle, all of these things to help him. So I do think there is a belief. Now, will we see that play out until we get to November or later? I don't know. But that is one area that I feel confident given a yes. I think after yesterday, I can give a lot of positives, a lot of yeses.

I'm not sure how confident I am that I'd give him next Monday at this time. But as far as the belief in that locker room and from the guys who really count the most besides him, yeah, I give that a pretty strong. No Nick Chub, but they have a historic defense that is just trashing teams week after week. You said the Ravens are up next. I think they see the Colts in a couple of weeks. That'll be a fun matchup with the rookie quarterback who can do a lot of things. But Zach Jackson, thanks for hopping on, and we're going to follow this team because I love watching good defense.

So we'll catch up with you down the line. Talk to you soon. All right, welcome back. It is an honor to welcome in my former beat partner on the Indianapolis Colts for the athletic, James Boy. James, three games in. You get to make your debut on Keefer in the Beats. Probably a little bit of a surprise. I'm not sure how many people had the Colts at two and one, three games into the season, considering their best player is still on the sideline.

But let's just jump in. It was a wild game yesterday in Baltimore. Colts 22, Ravens 19, in overtime, back and forth. One of the better kicking duels I've probably ever seen between Matt Gay and then Justin Tucker, obviously. But let's start here. When you saw that kick from Matt Gay go in, what went through your mind and in caps. the entire experience for the Colts winning with a backup quarterback in Baltimore against an MVP candidate. I thought, wow, this team might actually be pretty decent or dare I say good with Anthony Richardson in there. E.J. Speeds talking about the playoffs.

I know, which was crazy to say, but you look up and you're like, wow, okay, they're two and one. Jacksonville does not look, you know, like the top dog. We expected them to be early on. and we talked a little bit, you alluded to a little bit right there, about JT not being available for the team, but that wasn't the vibe that I got yesterday. I did not leave that game thinking, oh, they need their start running back to get back in there. To me, it was like,

oh, they need their rookie quarterback to be in there to give them that big playability. They just got by with just enough from the other guys to survive. And I thought that the Ravens did a lot of self-harm, you know, turnovers, fluky plays, he's just overall not being on the same pace you dropped the game, and the Colts capitalized on every opportunity,

and then obviously Matt Gay had the kicking game of all kicking games, and, you know, it validated why they paid him so much money to begin with. But I left that game thinking, okay, if you take those types of performances, that defense, special teams, and add in a very talented young quarterback, who, by the way, looked really good in the five quarters he's played,

you might have a team that, you know, smashes some expectations this year. I don't think this is getting talked about quite enough, and it's the Shane Steichen effect. Now, he comes in, and I've talked to people in the building about this because I used to cover the team. The entire training camp, as you know, was marred by this soap opera with this Jonathan Taylor saga that just would not stop. Team player, team player. Oh, by the way, Shane Steikin's coaching for the very first time as a head coach in the NFL, and nobody was talking about it. I think from my thousand foot view, I think he's been tremendous. You know, you can excuse the first opening week loss to the Jaguars.

That was a late interception that really sealed it for a 10-point win for Jacksonville. He was tremendous last week in Houston, dialing up that one quarter worth of plays for Richardson, which was really enough for them to win the rest of the way. And then yesterday they go down to Baltimore in the rain with the backup quarterback and no starting center, and they find a way to win. How has Shane's fingerprints been felt this season from the guys you've talked to in the locker room? I think that they love his demeanor. And it doesn't always show up with us in the media.

I mean, we don't think it ever does. The text where it's like, man, this guy doesn't say anything. Even after yesterday's gang, his... All he said about Matt Gaye was he was on fire. Like, that's it. Right. I was like, wow, okay. Let me go find some other people to talk to.

But when you look at some of the people, the clips that they posted like when he was in a locker room and how fired up he was about that win. And even just a little bit like watching it on like the TV broadcast when I watched the bat, how fired up he was after the kick went through. That's sort of the, you know, underdog, we're going to win anyway, forgive me everybody else thinks mentality that this team is time of taking on. And he's so detailed oriented to the point where they will not say anything about the scheme at all. Even if we just saw that. That's a change. Yeah. And even if we just saw them run a play, you know, for example, last week at Houston,

when they had that really nice play design for Anthony Richardson on the run, the second touchdown that is that one actually got him hurt. He probably didn't appreciate anybody breaking that play down or explaining how it all kind of came together. And I think that is part of just his mantra where it's like, I don't want anybody to know what we're doing until we do it. And I think yesterday it was a prime example of how he can just, even in a week's time, tailor an offense to at least give his team a chance.

And I know people were on Gardner Manchu yesterday, and he could have been the reason they lost. I mean, that safety obviously stepping out of the back of the end zone was not ideal. But in true Gardner Manchu fashion, even that mistake wasn't catastrophic. Like he didn't have, you know, some game breaking turnover. He didn't have, you know, a terrible interception. He had that one fluke safety play, which again was his fault. Well, for the part, was steady enough to get him.

over the hump. What is Isaiah McKenzie doing not fair catching that ball and letting it bounce into the idiotic move? I thought that lost them the game, to be honest. Minchu they start the drive from their one. He didn't get a lot of protection. But let's shift the conversation

here for just a minute because I have a little bit of background with this team. Let's talk about the GM. We talked about the coach. Let's talk about the GM. So he finally swings on the quarterback in the draft and they bring in Gardner Minchew as a backup. Now, I have been as critical on Chris Ballard as just about anyone in terms of some of the moves he's made the last couple of years, especially on the

offensive line. We don't need to relive the Matt Prior days and all that. That being said, I thought yesterday was one of Chris Ballard's better days. And I want to run through the signings that have really seemed to pop from my end. Samson Ebukom was not a huge name that they added. I thought he's been tremendous on the edge adding that pass rush group. Matt Gay, I don't need to say anything about that. You give a kicker $22.5 million, the highest ever for a kicker in free agency worth every single penny yesterday. Gardner Minshew was tremendous as a backup. There's a lot of talk in New York. Are the Jets going to try and trade for Gardner Minshu? Chris Ballard ain't sending him anywhere. They need him. And then here's the guy I want to hit on, Zach Moss. Now, this was a trade

last year in Nahim Hines deal. He missed most of camp with a broken arm. He has been tremendous the last two weeks. And like you said earlier, how crazy is it for you to say they're not really desperate for Jonathan Taylor's return? Zach Moss has run 100 yards back-to-back weeks. Where did this come from? Yeah, I thought that he had a tremendous performance. And I will say this he did have hit 88 last week, 122 this week, but he has had in his last three games for the colds day match last year, two and the last three have been 100-yard games. And you can kind of, going back to when we were on the beat together, Zach, last year, that last game against Houston, we didn't even, the fact that Zach Moss crossed a hundred yards didn't even cross our minds.

Oh, it wasn't even on the radar. And coming into this year, I was thinking, okay, like, that was, you know, against Houston, and the end of the season, whatever. But I think this year he's proven, no, that wasn't a fluke. I can actually play, given this opportunity, and I'll, I guess give a little tease here, but I did talk to him about his background and everything like that. I'm hoping to get something out on him to kind of show people who he is as a person on top of the opportunity he has in front of him, and he has capitalized.

And I think that he is sort of old school with the way that he runs. He's not a big game-breaking speed guy. He's not going to gash you for a 50-yard touchdown, but he's going to get you for six or seven or five or 13, like he did on the final drive where that 13-yard run really set them up and put them in range for Matt Gay to make history. So I thought that he did a tremendous job. And then in like this really fun twist, he and Matt Gay and, you know, Julian Black

and they were all in the same team together at the same time. So there's oftentimes, you know, NFL teams where you have guys who went to the same college with their different years and they didn't play together. They all played together. And so to be together, you know, six years later, basically, seven years later. And to look up and have that kind of moment together was pretty special yesterday. And I thought that, you know, again, without Zach Moss, they don't win. without Matt Gay, obviously they don't win.

I think without that defense, you know, Julian Blackman, Julius Brent stepping up having a huge force of. They don't win that game. And so that felt like, you know, we joked about it with EJ Speed. Are they playoff balance? I don't know, but I don't think he's lying when it says it brings he closer together because it felt like everyone had their moment to shine in that game.

I mean, even Zaire Franklin, who I don't talk about now, but he's turning into one of the best linebackers in the league. He had 15 tackles yesterday, 45 through his first three games. I see you're still going to EJ. for those money quotes. That hasn't changed. I would keep going too, man. I'm glad you mentioned those guys because we want to pivot. We talked about the GM and the additions, the additions he made last year, but let's go back to even the draft. I mean, Josh Downs looks like a player. Now, he's a rookie, but he's a player, and you can tell that Richardson has a comfort with him. We'll see that

more when Richardson's back. I want to talk about Juju Brent's first game, the Indianapolis kid. He might have made the play of the game in the first half, and the game might have spiraled in a different direction if he doesn't make that play. Right. Kenyon Drake's running 15, 20 yards down the field. And I read what Juju said after the game. He said, look, you know, we knew this guy from camp. He had the ball a little loose. He punches that out.

They recover. That was going to maybe be a 14 to zero game. And instead, the Colts stay right in it. You got to give Bernard Ryman credit for making a step in year two. And then obviously, you've written a lot about Zaire in the past. He's a best linebacker on that team right now. And he is one of the best linebackers in the league. 45 tackles so far, the most ever by a Colts defensive player,

three games into the season. How good is this defense? Are you buying it? Because they just did that against Lamar, who still had his plays. But, you know, they pressured him on 29% of his dropbacks. They sacked him four times, six tackles for loss, forced three fumbles. I mean, that was a banner day for Gus Bradley. Oh, absolutely.

I will say this. The Ravens were extremely depleted. I mean, the culture ban on the box. obviously. But the regiments, they might be. I think seven starters. Yeah, I mean, they might be the most injured team I've ever seen in my life every year. It's been like this for them for like five years. I don't get it. Exactly. And then to their credit, I mean, they didn't play well enough to win the game and they had a lot of self-flicted wounds. But the fact that they actually have a chance to win pretty much every week with just some rag tag lineup in Lamar Jackson

most of the time is pretty impressive. But you can't feel sorry for who they have out there. You play who's in front of you. And I thought that, you know, the Colts played really well. And that defense are front. I feel better about them. I do the back end still. You know, again, Julius Brins had a big play yesterday. And obviously those guys stepped up. Kenny Moore's played well. Oh, yeah. He has. And he's, you know, sort of taken ownership of that room. And he's been the guy that they go to for advice. And so you look at what Julius Brins brought. And I think that's what they have been waiting for because the only reason he hadn't played so far is because he hadn't practiced. He had been banged up. He had the wrist surgery right after the draft. He had a hamstring

thing. And he just couldn't get healthy. And then you have that Welcome to the league moment where I asked a couple guys about that. And EJ. Speed, you know, great quote again. I didn't use it in the story. But he's like, no, y'all just now seeing it. We saw it already. We've seen it. And Julian Blackman as well. He's like, welcome to the league. That's type of player that changed the game. And you're right on the money, Zach, you know, DeForest Buckner. Others were saying that changed the tenor of the game. And like I wrote in my story, it just locked them into this, oh, this is going to be easy today type of game. Because they responded again, even after Lamar went up on another quarterback design run. They had him wrapped up so many times and he just snuck out. I don't think that's

exclusive to the Colts. Lamar just, and I've seen him do that. I've seen him make a 20 point comeback in the fourth quarter against this team a couple of years ago on Monday Night Football. But the fact that they didn't break. Now, they had to bend because that's what Lamar does to you. But Quitty pay, playing better this year too it seems like absolutely he's had some pressure on the edge he had a huge sack on lamar obviously to right i believe it was the end of regulation where he sacked them and then they still got enough to give just Tucker a chance but then you know he missed a 601 yard was good me too and it's funny we were all in the press box like man he missed that and then i just had a conversation with some of the Baltimore riders i'm like wow you know that guy is a legend

when we're criticizing him from missing a 61-yard kick, and we're asking why he didn't make it. That's crazy to me. And we push Matt Gay a little. You know, he's a very nice, faith-filled guy. He didn't want to, you know, say too much, but it meant something to have that performance against that kicker and that kicker's house on the road.

So it was quite a day for, I guess, sitting on the edge of my seat in the press box and really, you know, being dialed into kickers. I'm like, wow, that, you know, Normally it's one kick, but it was kick after kick for both teams because after those, you know, touchdowns, it was like, okay, who's going to have the ball last to kick this thing and win it? You need to make kicks when you have a backup quarterback. You're not going to score a lot of touchdowns. And, you know, it brought to mine for those that go back, the 2006 playoffs, Venetary going five for five in that same stadium to push the Colts to the AFC championship game. And he said something interesting in your story, Matt Gated. He said, I don't know, man, I just black out when I'm out there in the zone.

And back in the day, I asked Pat McAfee about punting, and he's like, when I'm kicking it the best, I blackout on the field. I don't think they mean blackout in the way a lot of people assume. But that's just fascinating because it's the same thing when Steph Curry gets in the zone, right? It's the same thing when John Rob's in the zone on the golf course. Like this guy was just drilling it. And like you said, it was really cool to watch these kickers go back and forth. And for the team like the Colts that has had a lot of kicking issues the last couple of years, I contend to this day they lost a playoff game because of the kicking in 2020.

Blankenship missed one at the end of regulation last year that were the one the game of Houston. I don't need to go back to all of them. But you pay a kicker $22 million to solve that problem and you're damn glad you did on a day like yesterday in the rain against the best kicker in the game right now and Justin Tucker to get that out. I'll get you out of here on this, James. You were there every day in training camp. You live the soap opera. What has surprised you the most about this team on the field and off three games in? I think one.

It seems like they're overachieving. Yeah, they're overachieving. They don't miss JT as much as I thought they would at this stage of the seasons. That's something to keep an eye on. Obviously with him becoming available, quote unquote, in week five. So there's one more game without him in theory. And then he could come back. But on top of that, it's at least when AR has been in there,

Anthony Richardson does not look like this deer in headlights, this super raw prospect, this you know, guy who only started 13 games, he looks like he has a clue. And that's a credit to Shane Steichen who continues to put all of his players in the best position. And I think you see some of the reaction to that in a locker room, especially with a guy like Michael Pittman Jr., for example. We were there, Zach. We saw how frustrated he was last season. He's played with 26 different quarterbacks in three years. I mean, can you blame them? And this is a guy who seems to be loving life right now, one, because he's getting his targets. Unbelievable catch yesterday. I mean, the best catch of his career. Oh, it was unbelievable. I cannot believe that he caught that pass. But again,

he's a guy who really appreciates what Gardner-Menshew does. But he also appreciates what Anthony Richardson can he can possibly become and evolve into. So it is exciting around these parts. They're over-achieving for sure. And I think that, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to, going to have to probably eat some crow if they keep this up because I picked them to go five and 12 they're two and one right now and at the very least through three weeks it feel that the Colts are in every game and you know when we were saying that last year it was like the wheels fell off in some of these quarters but it seems like they'd have let the rope go in any game and they've had a chance which is all you can ask for for a team that's coming off a four 12 and one season

I think you're right I think it is Richardson and and I'll eat crow if I'm wrong about this but by the end of this season, I think he's, I think he's going to be the best of the three rookie quarterbacks. I think it's, I don't think it's going to be particularly close. Now, C.J. Stroud had a really good day yesterday. Bryce Young up and down. I thought he was decent the first week, but he threw two picks. Then he was really bad last week, didn't play on Sunday. But I think the Shane Steichen effect with Richardson is going to bear out over the course of the season. I think I think he's a special talent. And I think Stikin's done a really good job of not putting too much on him, but, you know, really diving into what he does well. And you've seen

that through only five quarters. Long way to go. But the Colts are two and one. Maybe if they keep winning, I'll have you on every week. It'd be like the old days. That sounds good. I mean, you got people joking about, you know, postseason travel plans. So we'll see what happens with town. Let's pump the brakes, man. It's still September. And I cover the Colts too long to know. Oh, absolutely. Let's not get out of ourselves. I rolled my eyes and I heard that. However, it was, It was pretty fun to be around something like that because, as Matt Gay said, that doesn't happen every day. So anytime you get a chance to see history. And then last year we saw history on the other side to be on like...

We saw a lot of bad. We saw a team on the most positive side of history. Now, that was a fun day in the locker room. And the guys are very, very inspired. I'll leave you with this. Whenever the kicker gets a podium call, you know he had a great day. Yeah. I mean, you got a little...

Now, we had a lot of those with Adam Vinatieri back in the day, but we haven't had many since. Man, you had so many players who were like, you know, when the Colts PR staff, Matt Conte yelled out, hey, Matt gave to the podium, did all these guys in the locker room, Zach, who were like, oh, Matt to the podium, Matt to the ball, banging their lockers and teasing them because that doesn't normally happen. They were all so grateful for the way he performed. And again, I was just happy to be there and to kind of give you all that behind the scenes look at what it felt like, what it looked like and what it could mean for their season. Unbelievable. You cannot do your job better than James, excuse me, than Matt Gay did yesterday. But speaking of jobs, go check out James Storing the Athletic. He really takes you into the moment of the game winning kick from Matt Gay from everyone's perspective on the sideline. That's on the athletic this morning. James, thanks for hopping on. We'll catch up with you soon if the Colts keep going. All right. Sounds good. All right. That is it for Kiefer and the Beats. We have two on tap for Monday Night Football. Eagles and Bucks. Both teams are undefeated. heading into that one, then we have the Rams and the Bengals in the late one on Monday night. Robert and Nate will have a regular slate of shows the rest of the week.

Of course, there's the Football GM podcast with Randy and Mike Sando on Thursday, and we will catch up with you guys after week four. Huge thank you to Dan Popper in L.A., James Boyd and Indy and Zach Jackson in Cleveland for hopping on, and it's going to be a fun week for. We'll catch up with you guys next week. This was the athletic football shows Kiefer and the Beats. Thank you.