The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Keefer and the Beats: Seahawks add depth, Cowboys taking shape and Chiefs unexpected loss

Episode Date: October 31, 2023

In this week's edition of Keefer and the Beats, Zak dives into three potential playoff teams with The Athletic NFL beat writers Michael-Shawn Dugar (Seahawks), Jon Machota (Cowboys), and Nate Taylor (Chiefs). The discussion starts on the Seahawks adding to an already deep defensive line group. Then we shift to the Cowboys and ponder if they're just a tease or ready to take the next step. And then lastly, a breakdown of the Chiefs' unexpected loss to the Broncos.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome back to the athletic football show. This is Zach Kiefer, and we are wrapping up an ugly week eight in the NFL. A week in which we saw the likes of Brett Rippin, Tommy DeVito, Taylor Heineke, Mitchell Tribusky, and Tyson Baygent, all quarterback their respective teams, didn't see that coming. None of which ended in a victory. And like Robert and Nate dug in on their show last night, it doesn't feel like any team out there is, really separating themselves from the rest of the league. It's certainly not the rest of their conference.

It's getting messy because all these contenders have at least one or two flaws, and we're starting to see that eight weeks into the season. That's going to be the fun part, seeing which teams correct and address those flaws in the next couple months. Now, the Eagles, they're 7 and 1. They're finding ways to win most weeks, mainly because A.J. Brown is freaking unstoppable. But it certainly doesn't feel like the Eagles are firing on all cylinders, not yet at least. Now, every team in the AFC has at least two losses. Joe Burrow and the Bengals, after yesterday's win in San Fran, look like they're back.

The Jets are above 500 after Halloween without Aaron Rogers at quarterback. That's pretty impressive, did not see that coming. And like I mentioned, San Francisco, after starting 5 and 0, suddenly have three losses and aren't even in first place in their division. Kirk Cousins is done for the year, which means the Vikings will have some really tough questions to answer over the coming weeks and months. But for this week's episode, we're going to dig into three contenders, all of which I expect to be in the playoffs in a couple months.

We're going to start with the team that made the biggest move on Monday, the Seahawks, trading for defensive linemen, Letter Williams of the Giants. Our beatwriter, Michael Sean Dugar, will react in real time to the move and tell us what the Seahawks are saying with this kind of trade, adding to an already pretty deep defensive line group that they have in Seattle. We'll talk about Gino Smith and the enthusiasm that Pete Carroll brings into the building every single day. Fun talk with Michael Sean out in Seattle.

From there, we'll pivot and go to the NFC East and talk to John Moshoda in Dallas for the first time all season. Are the Cowboys just a tease? Our team that beats up on bad teams like they did yesterday, beating the brakes off the Rams in a game that was 33 to 3 at one point in the first half, or are they ready to take the next step, which they haven't done as everybody knows in a really long time and hang with Philadelphia and hang with San Francisco. They got beat badly in San Francisco a couple weeks ago.

They've got another test this weekend in Philadelphia. That's going to be a good one. John was great. Tons of insight on Dak Prescott and the conversations in Dallas right now about whether the cowboys are pretenders or contenders. And then finally, the world champions, the Chiefs. It's kind of surprising. We haven't had Nate Taylor, our Chiefs writer, on yet. but honestly outside of week one the chiefs have really flown under the radar this season

but after yesterday's ugly loss in denver the first time they lost to the bronco since Peyton manning was still in Denver there's a lot to dig into with nate that offense isn't right and the chiefs lead the league in drops and if you've been watching you can tell they don't have it right now at receiver they're just not good at receiver right now outside of Travis kelsey obviously but is the gamble the chiefs are playing right now that they're these young receivers are going to grow over the course of the season. Is that going to pay off or do they have some problems down the line? That's going to be fun to see over the next couple of weeks.

Great conversation with Nate ahead of a really fun game coming Sunday in Frankfurt between the Chiefs and the Dolphins. So week eight, Keefer and the Beats, let's jump in. All right, joining us from Seattle, Michael Sean Dugar, our Seahawks writer. Michael Sean, this is the second time we've tried this today. First time interrupted. This is the first time this has happened this season. I knew it would. Trade deadlines tomorrow. The Seahawks have made a mood. Leonard Williams is coming

over from the Giants to bolster the defensive line. Let's just jump right in. Like, what's your initial reaction? Is this a surprise? And how does this change that defense that's already playing pretty well? Yeah, I'm pretty surprised, at least on the surface, when we were recording the first time and I got a notification. I was like, wow, let me make sure it's not one of those fake accounts, you know, on Twitter. You know, it's like, oh, wait a minute. No, that's Tom Palliserra or whoever had that. I'm like, wow, that's real deal. I was surprised because I knew how much Leonard would cost in terms of money. I think he's got a base of like $18 million, which means he's owed another like 10 for the rest of the year.

And then subsequent reporting saw that, okay, they're eating a lot of that money the Giants are. I was like, okay, that's why you give up a second round pick for Leonard Williams. That's a hefty cost, right? Second round and fifth round? Yeah, and it's more than he went for to get to the Giants. I think they only got him for a third and a fifth. I mean, they paid him, obviously. I mean, the Seahawks are probably going to pay him something as well.

And the Seahawks, like you mentioned, they're playing pretty well up front. They got the second best or third best run defense, depending on what metric you use. I like to use designed rushing attempts. You know, it takes out QB scrambles from the sample. And they've got one of the best in the league. So they didn't really need interior help in that regard. They've got some guys that are bringing along with Cam Young, their fourth-round pick out of Mississippi State. So they've got some depth behind

Darren Reed and Draymond Jones. The latter just got 51 million from them. So yeah, I was very surprised by this move. But I do think it is a good move because I do think Leonard makes the Seahawks better, which when you're judging a trade in October, that is the place where you start, I think. What are they saying with this move?

Because if you make a move on October 30th for a player like at that price and give up that much to get them, I think you're saying something. I think this team thinks they could do something this year. Yeah, it's saying they're going to be, proactive and not reactive. After the Seahawks got bounced from the playoffs last year,

and that game, they were leading at halftime, I ended up losing by like 20 plus. It got out of hand real quick. And Pete Carroll, the next day on his weekly radio show, was asked what the difference between the Seahawks and the 49ers is. And he said, well, it's what they have up front. They have guys on a down-by-down basis up front who make your life hard.

And he said, we need to get more dynamic up front. And then they basically swapped out their whole defensive line. They got rid of Alwoods, Puna Ford, Shelby Harris, and Clinton Jefferson, and brought in Raymond Jones, Jaron Reed, Mario Lover's Jr., Cam Young, and Mike Morris, another rookie out of this one out of Michigan. So they retooled the whole thing, but that was reactive. That was after you already got your butt whooped. You went and fixed things.

This is more like a proactive move, say, hey, we're not going to wait until the Niners at somebody or the Eagles at somebody or the Cowboys at somebody. We're just going to go bolster what we have, you know, and try to compete in the NFC. So yeah, I think this is maybe a lesson learned from last season. Let's not wait until we're down 15 points in the fourth quarter of a playoff game. Let's wait until we're doing it. We're already leading the division. I think that would be the mindset here from Seattle's perspective.

And that falls in line with the mantra, like, good is the enemy of great. Like, this tells me they think they can win this division, which everyone thought was the 49ers a couple weeks ago. You mentioned Pete Carroll. He's such a fascinating figure. You had this great story with our colleague Jason Jenks last week about what it's like inside his meeting rooms, right? And I encourage everybody out there to go listen to it.

But Pete kind of in the third iteration with this Seahawks team, right? Early on they were trying to figure things out, 7 and 9. Then they had the Legion of Boom defense with a young Russell Wilson. Then it was really the Rush show for a long time. Now they're in the Gino-Smith era. Are they good enough to make a playoff run with this team? Because the offense gives me some worries. Gino can be great, 17 points in the first quarter yesterday.

And then they kind of just held on at the end. Like, is that the biggest concern moving forward? Yeah, I think so. You know, in an ideal world, the Seahawks would have made a trade at the deadline for a right tackle, right? Because theirs just had, his knee is still on the men, Abe Lucas, that is. You know, yesterday they closed the game with their third different replacement for him. They've already tried Jake Curran. They've already tried Stone Forsyth.

And last night, they have 41-year-old Jason Peters trying to hold off Miles Garrett on the game-winning drive. Now, Jason did it, but that just kind of speaks to the situation up front. 41. 41-year-old Jason Peters. Him and Trent Williams, man. Yeah, that speaks to how things are going. So, yeah, in an ideal world, you know, Seattle calls around and finds a new right tackle or something.

But, I mean, teams don't just have tackle help lying around. But they tend to have a surplus of, as the preseason shows us this every year, is defensive linemen. They're usually D-line depth way before there's O-line depth. So I think this was an example of making a strength stronger, you know, and sometimes teams do that. You see, a lot of teams do that when they have, like, a bonus pick in the first round because they've traded something, you know, like teams have two first round picks.

You see the Eagles do that. The Seahawks did that with taking Devin Witherspoon. You know, the secondary was already decent and they'd use the top five pick on a guy. You know, so this is an example of that. Take something you're already strong at and get better. You know, we sometimes look at just teams addressing their weaknesses at the deadline, but this is an example of taking something you're good at and maybe going from like you said, good to great.

Where are the Seahawks at with Gino? They gave him the contract, played well last year, got him to the playoffs. be really good in spurts. But I was at all these pro days for these quarterbacks in the spring, and I kept running into Pete Carroll. Now, that doesn't mean a whole lot, but I guess it is symbolic in a way. Like, did they feel like there's a ceiling maybe with him, and they're always on the hunt for their next guy, which they probably should be, unless they have that guy for 10 years? But, like, where are they at?

And what is the conversation right now in Seattle with this team that's pretty good everywhere, maybe not great? But they have a quarterback who can do a lot that they like, but to be a Philly, to be be to Sanfran, to be to Dallas, they're going to have to get great. Yeah, the thing with Gino right now, which is he got, he won the job from Drew Locke for several reasons, but in part because he was really good at pushing the ball downfield while also not jeopardizing ball security. And you watch Gino's games. Like if you're not a Seahogs fan and you just kind of tune in because they're in the afternoon window and you're just like,

oh, let me check on the Seahogs. You see Gino throwing two picks a game, you know, for the last month. They're like, huh, what happened to Geno Smith? That's a problem. Yeah, it's a very weird thing because Then you go back, like I'm here locally, obviously, so I'll watch the games live, but then I'll go back and watch the film because Pete Carroll after these games has kind of been like, oh, Gino played fine. You know, he had one or two bad players, but he played fine. You know, one or two bad plays is like a fumble or a pick. So it feels like the end of the world.

But then I'll go back and watch the film and I'm like, oh, I see what Pete is saying. Look at all of these other good plays between the 20s. Look at all these dynamic throws. Look at all these good checks and things like that, maneuvering between bad protection a lot of times. And then it's like, all right, well, the pressure finally got to him and he folded, I can see why his coach would give him the benefit of the doubt. But you have to wonder how long that's going to last, you know, Gino has come up to last like three or four press conferences says, yeah, you know, if you take out one or two plays that I've messed up on, maybe we're talking about a really good game.

He just can't do that every week. And in the playoffs, those one or two games will cost you, you know, like that one mistake in the playoffs can be the end. This is a team that, you know, they're one interception away from winning back-to-back Super Bowls. Like one play, while it's one of maybe 55 plays you're making a game, that one play could be the difference between you hold the Ombardi Trophy and everyone walking with their heads down while confetti pours for the other team. So you wrote this story about Pete and he's, I mean, he's doing a great job. They're five and two right now. They beat the Browns yesterday.

Now the Browns don't have their quarterback, but five and two is five and two. They're ahead of the Niners. Is Pete that upbeat, that positive, that energetic every day? because your story, there's this great comment from this 70-year-old woman. She says, I want to go break something, go Pete. Like, that's the kind of vibe you get. I mean, there's this great story about him getting a basketball goal in the meeting room while they're in New York for that Super Bowl they won about 10 years ago.

But, like, what's it like being around Pete Carroll every day? Because from those of us on the outside, he just seems like he's just got this energy that he shouldn't have at his edge. Does he really like that all the time? All the time. And it blows me away. Like in 2017, you know, it was my first year covering the team. Like one of the first things he did, you know, they have, every day has a theme.

You know, there's Tell the Truth Monday, Competition Wednesday, Turnover Thursday. I forget what Friday is. But like, like, competition Wednesday, I remember 2017. And he comes in. And he's like, all right, guys, because there's a, in the auditorium when we do our press conferences, there's a basketball hoop in there. Of course there is, right? He comes in there.

He's like, all right, we're going to do shootout right now. Curtis Crabtree of wherever Curtis was working at the time versus Bob Condota, the Seattle times. Shootout right now, 30 seconds each. And they go at it. Really? Yeah, I can't, I think Curtis wins. I can't remember. I have the video somewhere. But the point is, that was like my first year on the job. I'm like, did this guy just have two media dudes hold a shootout before his Wednesday press conference? And like, right after that press conference, or after the shootout, he was like, all right, cool, got went up on the stage. All right, questions. You know, like that's a totally different vibe from the pressers I've been in. Yeah, no, Pete, Pete is really like that. And you know what was really

interesting. I didn't get to include some of it in that story with Jenks, but the energy really helps these guys on a day-to-day. You know how like camp has its dog days, you know? Oh, yeah. So does the season in its own regard. Yeah, you know, and I remember Jordan Brooks, maybe I'll use this later, but Jordan Brooks was telling me, he was like, dude, Wednesdays are tough. It's our longest day. It's just hard. We got all the install, everything, practiced, blah, it's the longest day. And then Pete will come in here, fired up at like six or seven in the morning and now I'm fired up. Like now he's like, I can't be less fired up than a guy who was several decades older than me, you know, and Jordan's one of their every down players, you know,

first round pick in 2020. So they hear him kind of, you know, admit like, hey, sometimes I don't got it. But then Pete has it, so now I got it. That's huge from your 17. You would, I would expect to hear that from someone being coached by McVeigh or something or Mike McDaniel. No, you're hearing Jordan said that about a guy who's 72 years old. That's really impressive stuff. Last thing I'll let you go. I know you have a busy day. Imagine the move. to trade Russ away two years ago was polarizing, was it not? And he has done a tremendous job since. I mean, Pete Carroll, has the city taken a minute to appreciate that, what he's done?

Or where's the vibe sort of with that move and then where the team is at? Because like you said, I don't think anyone in Seattle is ever going to get over the fact that they were one play away from two in a row. Correct. Yeah, and that was tough for those guys to let go of. I mean, some of them still haven't. You know, this year, it's a 10-year anniversary of the, of the, team that won 10 years ago. And a lot of their, they're making a lot of content now. You know, they had a, they honored those guys in week three. KJ. Wright, who was on their team has a podcast.

Richard Sherman has a podcast. He's also on television. So like low foot to Tupu. I know he was on that team, but he has a podcast too. So you got a lot of this content. And on every episode, they're all just reminiscent about the Super Bowl days and then comes Super Bowl 49. It's like the elephant in the room. It's like, it turns into a therapy session. The mood all darkens and guys rehash all the different angles they have of the play and how they felt. Like, it hit them hard, you know, and the Seahawks haven't been to an NFC championship game since the season that got them there to the Super Bowl where they lost to the Patriots. So, yeah, it was a very polarizing move to move on from the greatest quarterback that you guys

have had. And to not only, if they had done that and, you know, drafted a guy high or something like that, you know, or got a different veteran team. Yeah, that's why this is different. They not only got like a journeyman dude. They got a journeyman dude who was like already in the building. Gino had already been on the team for like three years, you know, before they did that. And that's what I think brought a lot of the skepticism too on top of some bad drafts and some of those post-legeoning of boom years.

But it was also like, guys, okay, we're going to get rid of Russ to just promote the dude we already had. Wait a minute. That's fair. You know? That's fair. It's like who knows what would have like what's happened though in both cities, Denver and here is wild. Because like at that moment, you're like, why? Wow, Denver's going to be a contender.

Yeah, it was, I don't think anyone could have imagined, you could have thought that Russ wasn't going to be as good away from Pete, and you could have thought that Pete was going to be better than expected without Russell. That's both of those things. You could have found people who would have thought that. You couldn't have found anyone who thought that the Broncos would be that bad with Russ, that fast, and the Seahawks would be that good with Gino Smith that fast. Like, it just happened faster than anyone could have imagined.

Like, for Gino to play at a legit pro-examination. bowl level. It wasn't one of those, everyone else wanted to go do something else in February, so he made the Pro Bowl. He was an original ballot baller last year. Whereas Russ, you know, you got people screen cap in his contract details from over the cap by like Christmas. Like, whoa, can they get rid of this dude? You're right. So like, that was, that was, the contrast was just crazy. You know, Seattle couldn't even have predicted that as much as they were like, oh, we'll get rid of the guy. There's no way they thought that was going to happen in those, in those two cities. And now you look at where Seattle is and where Denver is.

is, you know, Seattle feels like it's on the up and up. They feel like they have all of the pieces. They feel like they have the quarterback, the running back, their receivers. You know, their fourth receiver has his own hashtag, more Bobo. Like, they feel like they have it all on defense and offense and the coaching staff. So yeah, this is a team that feels like it can genuinely compete in the conference. And it's because of the coach and it's because the GM does moves like what we're seeing, you know, making a strength already stronger at the deadline. They wrote me off, but I ain't wrote back. Probably the quote of the year last year.

And you mentioned they have all the pieces. They have a new one right now. Leonard Williams will be playing outside of New York for the first time in his career, adding to that Seattle defense. Michael Sean, can't thank you enough for hopping on on a super busy Monday. Thanks for the Insight Man. And this team ain't going nowhere, so we will be catching up with you down the line. Appreciate the time, ma'am.

Thank you for having me, Zach. Appreciate it. All right, welcoming in for the first time this season, John Machota out of Dallas. John, it's been a weird season for the Cowboys. boys, lots of expectations as we enter. They've beaten four teams by 20 or more. They've got some ugly losses. I want to start here because a couple of weeks ago,

they got their brains beat out by the San Francisco 49ers. How is the tenor for this team right now after yesterday's big win over the Rams compared to the tenor that you felt in that locker room in San Francisco when it really felt like they were just sort of undressed by a team that was in a different class? Yeah, it's night and day where they are now. I mean, really just you go back two weeks to the Chargers game, which followed that San Francisco one. And just the way that Mike McCarthy and Dak Prescott, just the way that the cameras caught them at the end of that game, just the sense of relief that thank God we can go into the bye week with a decent taste in our mouth after that San Francisco loss.

To have back-to-back loss is going in the buy. Just like you could just see the weight being lifted off of them. So then to answer that with what they did Sunday against the Rams was huge. And so now it's built back up to where, okay, now you have another similar test like you did against the Niners at Philadelphia next Sunday. What team is going to show up there? And really for this team, I mean, the barometer is Dak Prescott. When he's played well, the Cowboys win. When he's played awful, the Cowboys have lost, you know, and whether it's the Cardinals game or that blow out against the Niners.

But he's been great these last two weeks. So what DAC Prescott are you going to get against the Eagles? I think it'll be something closer to what we've seen these last two weeks and that disaster we've seen against the Niners. The Niners have just been that thorn in the side for Dak Prescott. Right. That's a good point because I was going to ask you, like, if we're any closer to figuring out who the Cowboys are,

if they've really, like, close that gap that they've faced for so long, right? Like, look, the Cowboys are a good team. They're a playoff team. but can they hang with the Philadelphia's and the San Francisco's? And I'm glad you brought up DAC because I thought against the Chargers that was as good as he's played in a long time from my end. And then he backed it up yesterday with another fantastic day. And if him and C.D. Lamb really jumpstart this, that could take this team to another level. But let me ask you, are we any closer to figuring out if this team's for real going to change the narrative in Dallas that they've fought for so long about winning that?

divisional playoff game, or are they just kind of like a tease? Like they beat up on the bad to mediocre teams and then they can't hang with the Philadelphia's or the San Francisco's. We'll get another answer this week as well. Yeah, I mean, they're definitely, I mean, the Dallas Cowboys for last 27 years have been a tease, you know. So I have to say that there is part of that with it. The one difference, though, I will say about this year is that I do think that they've

been building these last three years. And this is the best team they've had in those last three. They just won again at home. That's 11 home games. They've won in a row, which is, I take you've been to 18T Stadium. It's not, believe me, it's not because it's just the loudest building in the land. I mean, it's they've really genuinely. That's the longest home streak they've had since like 9192.

And everybody knows what they were doing in 9192. Absolutely. And so that's been a big part of it, the fact that, heck, you go back to those early 90s teams. The previous two years are the first time since those 90s teams that they put together back-to-back double-digit win season. So they are building. So you see that. And the other part that you have to factor in, and I know the Cowboys are such a hot button topic every single week on every single show that covers the NFL.

But the other thing you need to factor in is, yeah, they're a little bit of a tease. How many of the top teams in the NFL aren't? Because as amazed as I was leaving San Francisco after watching that 42 to 10 loss, I would have bet every penny I have in the bank that there was no. No chance the Niners would lose their next three games in a row. I would have made the same bet. I mean, I thought the fact that that's been going on has been so stunning to me where I felt like after that lost the Niners, I felt the Cowboys would kind of drop down to maybe where, you know, like Lions, Seattle are.

And Philly and San Francisco would pull away. And Philly might still, but we're going to get to see this Sunday if that's the case. And the Cowboys have played the Eagles much better than they've played the Niners. So I'm fascinated. I'm excited to go to this game. Really, not even just as a report, just as a sports fan, just to see, hey, what is going on here? These are two of the better teams in the league. You know, Sunday in Philadelphia, hostile environment.

Let's see what this Cowboys team really is. That's a good point. Like, there's no one pulling away. And I know Robert and Nate talked about that this morning on their show. Like, it's not every Sunday we have the 49ers and the Chiefs lose. Now, the Eagles won, but they're certainly not the dominant. and Eagles they were last year. Now, maybe they get there later this season, but they're a little bit flawed for seven and one. Now, the Cowboys are, they're second and scoring,

they're fourth in points against. They've got all the ingredients. They've got the elite pass rusher. They've got the weapons. The question is, can they take the next step in a game that they need to win, like Sundays against Philadelphia? Do you like their chances and why? I do like their chances just because how they've played these last two weeks, and I do think the defense will be locked in. Now, I did think that against the Niners, they weren't. Do you think they learned a lesson in San Francisco? Maybe, but I thought they learned a lesson a couple weeks before that against the Cardinals

to the point where, like, that Niners game, it's not like it snuck up on you. Everybody knew what that was. It was huge for that. Yeah, they ended your playoff run two years in a row. They're the ones that knocked you out. There was no sneaking up on you. You should have been ready for that one. Certainly not a hostile environment.

Great weather conditions, great game. There's no excuses to the way they played that one. So, yeah, I mean, you point to this one in the way they've played the last two weeks, and you certainly think, oh, no, you'll see a really good Dallas Cowboys team. The one issue that really stands out with them is that they just can't really run the ball that while. They're averaging 3.9 yards of carry, and, you know, they'll tell you that needs to be closer to 4.5. And there's nothing about this team that makes you think that they're going to get to that 4.5. And so can they beat teams with a good defense of winning through the air?

Sure. but I would even say if you're an opposing team, it's kind of like, okay, watching the game yesterday against the Rams. Like that Rams defense would not have in Leonard Floyd, you know, no Jalen Ramsey, no Von Miller. So send three, four guys at Aaron Donald and let somebody else ruin the game. If anybody reached out to me and goes, how do you shut down the Cowboys offense, send three, four guys at C.D. Laman, make somebody else beat you. I mean, that's really what it's come down to.

Make them show you that Brandon Cooks can consistently beat you, that Michael Gallup and that Tony Pollard in the run game. It could. You know, I mean, the receiving weapons have improved over the last few weeks. But if I was an opposing team, I would do everything I possibly could to take CD away and make everybody else beat them. So let's shift the conversation to the quarterback. Like you said, you cover the Cowboys. The Cowboys are on every single debate show every single week.

There's always a conversation about the Dallas Cowboys nationally. Let's go local. You're there every day. You watch every training camp practice. you've watched Dallas, you know, Dak Prescott's entire career, essentially. What's the conversation right now in Dallas about their quarterback and what is possible for this team?

Because they're a Super Bowl team. They want to win the Super Bowl. That's the standard in Dallas. My question to you is, after every loss, it's like, oh, let's look at his contract. They're limited. They can't get over the hump. Like, where is it really at in Dallas for those that are there every day?

This is certainly the most pressure he's had on him now in year eight. as the Dallas Cowboys quarterback. And, you know, when it comes to politics, I feel like the thing that's always thrown around is approval rating. And I would say for the Niners game, that's the lowest that DAC's approval rating has ever been with the fan base. Yeah. You know, it's interesting, too, because for all the negatives that you can certainly say,

and I know you'll know this too, obviously, with social media, it also gives you a little bit of a barometer, too. You know, I mean, it can also be a vocal minority, but it allows you to gauge a little bit what's going on out there. And there's just, after that Niners game, there was a lot of folks who, you know, a lot of comments about how that's always been my guy. I wanted him to win. Great dude and everything like that.

But after this game, I'm really starting to have my doubts. And I feel like a lot of people felt that way. And so it's been interesting to see him respond these last two games because there's no. How does he handle that? Does he hear that? Does he acknowledge that? Certainly he hears it. He doesn't acknowledge it to reporters on the record.

But I'll just put, I'll say it to you the same. way that I tell my friends when they ask me stuff like that about him. He knows too much about what's going on, not just in the NFL, but around the world all the time. Like you can talk to him about any topic. So that alone tells me he knows. Because how could you tune cowboy stuff out but know what's going on in these other NFL cities? So he is up on it. He'll never admit it, you know, on the record. But there's no question that he hears it. You know, he's not going to feed into it publicly. But I'm sure that that throws law. on the fire behind the scenes. He knows what's being said and has. Really, this kind of goes back

to when he's signed that the deal he's under right now, the 40 million per year, the four years 160, and that like ratcheted it up. And then the knowing where the quarterback market is gone now, you're looking at 50 million a year. And so that's always the thing that's being factored in too when he struggles. And then they're going to pay him 50 million a year, you know, even more. So it's not just the, hey, should this guy be our starting quarterback for the, you know, the next five, 10 years, should we go another direction? It's, well, and you're going to have to tie in probably about 50 million plus per year to keep him there. So this is a huge season for all of that because, I mean, they have to make a deep playoff run to quiet all of that down. I mean,

really, there's a part of the regular season that almost doesn't even matter with this team. It's about what are they going to do in January. That's funny. You mentioned that about, one, it's almost impossible not to hear that. I remember talking to a player one time about social media and he he vowed to me that he never read or looked at Twitter or anything. I go into the locker room after a game and he's scrolling his name on Twitter. Just looking through all of it. I'm like, all right, you guys all look at this stuff. Don't lie.

Even if you're a quarterback, you guys all check this stuff out. They know what's being said. Hey, there was a time when the Cowboys wide receivers were Des Bryant, Terrence Williams, and Cole Beasley. and there were times after games where they were already responding to people on Twitter before the locker room open. You know how there's obviously that period of whatever 10. They do it right away sometimes. They can't help themselves.

They're very aware, yes. Well, get you out of here on this. It's such a funny situation they're in because, you know, they set the expectations there. Everyone knows what Jerry Jones wants. Like you said, they haven't made it past the divisional round of the playoffs. God knows how long. Is that really what they need to do? do this year. And the question is, what is going to hold them back from doing that? What do they

need to do differently to get past that last hump? I don't think they need to make a Super Bowl, but at the very least, an NFC championship game, which means they're going to have to probably beat either San Francisco or Philadelphia, maybe Detroit. We'll see what happens. But like, what needs to be different in this December and this January than in years past? The easiest thing I can point to is I go back to the Dak Prescott thing. I mean, if he's playing well... He's just got to get hot. the defense is too good for it not to be solid throughout. Now, they could obviously elevate to a level where just take care of the ball on offense. We'll do the rest.

But if Dak is playing well, everything else takes care of itself. But for him to play well, though, too, I think it would be a little short-sighted, not to point out, he's going to need a good offensive line in front of him. The Cowboys have been banged up on the offensive line. Probably need a little bit of a running game. That's been a struggle. And you're going to need another receiver to emerge that you can count on opposite. the CD lamb. And also you've got to have good game plans. The coaching is going to be a big part

of this in the playoffs too. So the easy answer is DAC, but the bigger picture answer really for me is the offense. Like can they get solid production from the offense? Which is kind of funny to even talk about because I started covering a team in 2011. And really up until like the last year, every year it's been Cowboys offense first. It's always been, I mean, that's where the money spent. I mean, it doesn't take a genius to look at it. Whether you go through the Romodaz years, right into what now is, you know, what you'd call the DAC C. D era. I mean, there's so much money spent on that side. And now it's starting to shift a little bit. Obviously, when, you know, Trayvon Diggs just got a contract this offseason. And then now, of course,

Maca Parsons will eventually get one that will probably make him one of, if not the highest paid defensive players ever. But for such a long time, it's been offense first. And now it's a team where it's like, no, you know what you got with the defense? Can the offense step up when it matters most? I wonder if your opinion changes after Sunday if they win in Philadelphia, because that would be a statement win. And like you said, there's no one really pulling away. And if suddenly Philadelphia is seven and two and Dallas is right there. There might be a lot of hope and a lot of anticipation in Dallas. And that's a dangerous thing in that city, I feel like, over the last couple years.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I will say, I mean, there's a part of me too with, if, yeah, they beat Philly, sure. But then there's still the boogeyman, and that's the Niners that you feel like you have to go through. They're not going anywhere. But I will say from our standpoint, that's the great part of storytelling and reporting. Because in sports, there's so many stories like that. And in so many different, not just the NFL, it was a big one. It's been a big one for a long time with the NBA,

especially in the 80s and 90s where it was like, you didn't just get to the mountaintop. You kind of had to keep chipping away at this team that stood in your way. And then finally getting past them is what puts you on the next level. And certainly the Cowboys had their battles with the Niners like that in the 90s. So the storybook seems like it's shaping up for that, you know. But then again, as you know, sports don't always give you the storybook ending. Yeah, I'm rooting for the story.

Whatever happens. People in this city where I'm from Indianapolis will tell you the year they finally beat the Patriots and went to the Super Bowl, the AFC Championship game over the Patriots means more to fans here than the Super Bowl win over the Bears, and it's not even close. I don't know if it's the same thing if they were able to beat the 49ers when it counts in late January, but it might be. It might be for a team that hasn't really done that in a very long time.

But thanks, John, for hopping on. That was fun. And we're going to be talking to you again because the Cowboys are going to be in it for the long haul. No, sounds good, man. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. All right, welcome back. Welcoming in from Kansas City,

Nate Taylor. Nate coming back from Denver. It's not often where you get to talk about a Kansas City Chief's loss, but here we are. How you doing, ma'am? I'm doing great, honestly, just because, you know,

this is the perfect time, Zach, for us to talk about this just odd football team that is both good and boring, both interesting, but like the season hasn't gotten like, I think, to the most fascinating part yet. You know, it'll start basically, it'll start on Sunday when they play the Miami Dolphins. So no, this was, this was perfect timing.

I'm happy to do it. And yeah, finally, I mean, finally, I wrote the Chiefs lost to the Broncos. You know, I've been at this job for almost seven years. They've won every game. So it was, it was that is wild. That is so wild. In a league where there's some wild stuff, like 16 straight against the division team is just stupid. Right. I've seen pretty much every Patrick Mahomes game. He's won every time against the Broncos. So for them to have, in my opinion, their worst game of the season, especially on offense,

you know, with them potentially maybe looking ahead to Miami, I don't know how much truth there is to that. But, yeah, playing the Broncos two times in three weeks and you beat them already in Arrowhead. And it's like, I don't know, maybe we found the numbers, Zach. It took 16, you know, like maybe it took 16 games for the Chiefs to not totally respect their division rival. But it is quite a wake-up call as we get closer to like, you know, the midway point of the season. Like, it's funny to me that when we are going to be a Germany, this upcoming Sunday at halftime will actually be the halfway point of the season because the NFL is stupid and they play 17 games instead of 16. I know. I hate it. I hate it.

16 is such a good round number. It's such a great number. TV money, Nate. TV money. True. Very true. There's a lot to dig into about this team. I'm glad we have you in with an eight-game sample size for the Chiefs. They're six and two, all that.

Before we get into that, you mentioned something a minute ago that was interesting. I remember watching the Peyton Manning Colts days, and it always felt like September, October, November were like irrelevant. Like nothing mattered until January. Yeah. Is it the same feeling? in Kansas City every year, and I would understand why. Yeah, I think largely so. Because, you know, this season started off maybe a little bit different than years past,

especially in the Patrick Mahomes era just because Travis Kelsey missed the first game with his hyper-extended knee injury. And we all watched Chris Jones watch his teammates from the stands against the Detroit Lions. I don't think I've ever seen that before. Like a non-injured player is just like just chilling in a suite. Just chilling in the suite up with my agents trying to work out this whole holdout situation. So their season started off unconventional, right? But then they beat the Jacksonville Jaguar,

which is probably their most important, most impressive game of the season so far. And then they rolled six straight, right? So nothing really matters to me in terms of evaluating this team until about Thanksgiving. And the reason I say that is because that's when you really know what the playoff race is, you know, who's the number one seed, who's trying to get that first round by.

Last year they successfully sort of earned that buy. and then obviously that helped them get to the Super Bowl and actually become champions. But look, their second half of the schedule is really backloaded. And it obviously starts with the dolphins, but hey, they still have the bills. They still have the Eagles.

They still have the Bengals. So they got through this stretch, I think, pretty good, honestly. Like, most of their players are relatively healthy. You know, they have some interesting, you know, sort of issues on offense. But for the large part, like, Patrick Mahomes is playing pretty good football, even by his standards, despite, you know, playing with flu-like symptoms yesterday.

But, yeah, nothing really matters until you know who the contenders are, and then how do the chief stack up against those contenders when, again, they're trying to get to another Super Bowl. That usually, I usually get that information around Thanksgiving, because I think that's when real football starts. The weather gets involved. Teams have more contrition, more injuries. And look, just, I think from November all the way,

From Thanksgiving, really, till the Super Bowl is when I think you see the biggest discrepancy in coaching. Because you just have so much film. You have to add so many more adjustments. You have to have wrinkles on top of the wrinkles that you've already presented this season. It's one of the reasons why Andy Reid is obviously one of the better coaches in the league. And obviously he has Steve Spagnolo as a really top-in defensive coordinator. But you really start to see who the real contenders are by Thanksgiving. And I think the Chiefs are going to be one of those teams in the top of the AFC standings.

It's just a matter of how do they look. And how are they ready for sort of their prime time moment, which is, hey, they're supposed to go to another Super Bowl, right? They have the best quarterback in the world. And even though their roster is really, really young, they showed last year that they're capable of having Super Bowl success. That's a good point. It doesn't really start for the real ones until Thanksgiving. But we're starting to see if there are issues that might percolate at that point. You mentioned yesterday, like, we can dig into whether that was a dud in Denver.

I mean, you mentioned that they walked off the field and the Broncos. I'll give them a hat tip for this. They were playing a Taylor Swift song, man. That is ice cold. But they haven't got to do that with the Chiefs in a long time. So let's dig into whether these issues are real or not. Like, I think my takeaway after last season was like the Chiefs don't play by the other set of rules that everyone else does because of their quarterback, because of their coach, because of Kelsey a little bit. Like they can trade Tyree Kill and still win the whole thing.

So that being said, I'm never going to count them out. I'm never going to underestimate 15. He played pretty well yesterday. The issues that I have, strangely, are with the offense. Yeah. Most drops in the league, 18th in the red zone? Yeah, it's bad. The Chiefs are 18th in the red zone?

It's really bad. So like, by their standard. Yes. Uh-huh. By their other worldly standards. And he will always make up for that. But they've been really patient at receiver. They've really, like, leaned on the youth.

and they got away with it last year because Mahomes, but I feel like it's kind of an issue right now. And like with the trade deadline coming tomorrow, I don't expect them to make a move to add in another receiver because they can play the long game. But are they good enough at receiver, even with Mahomes, to hang with, like you said, they've got the Eagles, the dolphins, the bills coming up.

Like, it's going to be a lot tougher if they don't play those playoff games in Arrowhead. Right. And that's one of the most fascinating parts of my job, right? I've been doing this so long that the man has never played a road playoff game. Wait, at all? At all. Like, Patrick Mahomes. That's not normal.

It's the most acidine stat. You're right, though, like five straight AFC championships at home, right? The only, I guess you could say, quote unquote, true road game was Super Bowl in Tampa Bay during the COVID year when obviously the Bucks were playing in their own. We were like 25 people in the stand. Yeah, whatever playing in their own home stadium. Super Bowls are not road games. Man, those are such quiet stadiums, right? And that was a COVID stadium, right?

So, but again, in terms of, like, how we all consume football, how we all watch and remember it, like he hasn't played a real playoff game. So I think the AFC is wide open, right? Obviously, each division leader is six and two. But from an offensive standpoint, their receivers are both congested, and yet they have not separated themselves in a way that you would think they would with the best quarterback in football, right? There were some bad drops yesterday, man.

It's like Mahomes was mad and I don't blame it. Right. You know, most notably Sky Moore in the end zone on fourth down. If he catches that ball, it's still a game up until that point. But look, you know, the chiefs traded for Cadarius Tony last year and he was supposed to be the number one receiver. It has not translated at all in terms of production, right? Mahomes really doesn't target, you know, Cadarius Tony a tonne. Sky Moore is running a lot of routes, but he's not getting either A, a ton of separation,

or B, a lot of production out of the amount of times he's on the field. One of the most marvelous things that you can see, and I see it obviously in the live all 22 in the press box, is the Dipper Broncos were finally the first team this year that says, what if we just account three guys for Travis Kelsey and just see what happens? And Mahomes made an interesting comment about that after the game. Yes, because I asked him about it. I'm like, hey, man, did they? make any adjustments because it looked to me like they just said Kelsey can't beat us today.

And I think he gave half of an honest answer being Patrick Mahomes, which says kind of yes, because now teams can sort of replicate that or they can at least try to replicate what the Denver Broncos did. Play a lot of deep zone, quarters, cover two, cover six, stay in front of everybody, give a lot of attention to Kelsey and hope that you've been, but you don't break in the red zone. So one of the reasons that the Chiefs have struggled in the red zone, in my opinion, is because they are relying on Kelsey and Mahomes too much. They are passing the ball at an extreme rate when the field gets super duper condensed, and teams are playing a lot of zone coverage behind it.

So that should inform the coaching staff like Andy Reid and Office of Coordinator Matt Nagy to run the football. Zach, they didn't give the ball to Isaiah Pacheco in the red zone. And we know Isaiah Pacheco can make maybe the first guy or even the second guy miss off initial contact. So they're going to have to change some of their own place. style play calls in the red zone but their biggest issue to me and I wrote it in the athletic like their biggest variable is one week their

wide receivers can look great right right Rashid Rice is a rookie he's had a very impressive season he might be their best receiver which is not a good sign when you're like hey our best receivers a rookie who's learning on the job but then there's some weeks we're like hey

you know Marquess Valdez-Skinlin had a really nice touchdown against the Los Angeles Chargers he caught a pass and immediately fumbled against the Denver Broncos. So you just can't have those type of, you know, Jekyll and Hyde performances from your veteran receivers. They trade for Nicole Hartman, who has a great punt return against the Chargers, comes back.

Play yesterday. And literally ends the game. Like, stop the game. Stop it. He fumbled in his own end. Like, just already give the Broncos seven points. Just stop the game. The game's over.

And I appreciated that when we did talk to McColl in the locker room. He was just like, yeah, I lost the game. And I'm like, yeah, he did. I think he tweeted that same thing. He was like, it's on me. It really. And like he was, he was very honest. And of course, he's been a part of, you know, their championship teams in the past.

So for them to make, that was their trade deadline move. It was just like, well, we don't know what to do with our receivers. Justin Watson is hurt. Richie James is hurt. Cadarius Tony's, eh, Sky Moore cannot get open. or, you know, I think if I had to assess it, Zach, I don't think, I don't think Patrick Mahomes trust Skymore because you're seeing more and more of these plays where,

hey, I give you a 50-50 shot and you have not helped me as the quarterback despite you being in man-to-man coverage quite a bit. Because, again, the Broncos are like three guys are dedicated to 87 at all times. So I don't know if, I don't know if Patrick Mahomes trust Skymore the way you would hope you would for a receiver quarterback combination that's in year two. And yeah, you know, their best receiver production-wise, consistency has really been Rishi Rice, which was not the expectation when they drafted him in the second round, you know, this past April.

That's the interesting thing because hardly any other contender could get away with this, right? Kind of just like saying, we're just going to let these guys grow up as receivers and live with the results. And we'll get away with it because we have a Hall of Fame tied in, a Hall of Fame quarterback, and a Hall of Fame coach. But I wonder if it doesn't bite them down the line. Like you said, like we're getting into November, and they've got this Murderer's Row coming up, and I just don't know.

Like you said, if he doesn't trust Sky Moore, like you know who a quarterback trust based on who he throws to. And if these other teams are going to copy it, like what Mahomes said, we're going to have to prove we have answers for that. If these other teams are going to corral Kelsey, who's going to step up? They got away with it last year, but it was close in the AFC championship game and the Super Bowl. I wonder if the Chiefs can do that because if you look at the other contenders in the AFC, they all arguably have better skill position talent than the Chiefs.

And I think in a lot of cases it's a wide margin. I don't know if this is going to work. Right. I think Cincinnati has a better skill position group. You could argue that Jacksonville has a better skill position group. They do. Buffalo. Buffalo's kind of a watch just because they have injuries and, you know, Stefan Deeks or Travis Kelsey, that's, you know, I can understand based on your preference where you want to go.

Baltimore, Kelsey, Andrews. Kind of the same. But, but Mahomes, like, he's the Trump car. It doesn't matter sometimes. He doesn't play by the same. It's not in the same stratosphere. But maybe teams have found a way to at least stifle the chiefs a little bit. Maybe we look like idiots in two months.

We probably did. It's happened before, you know. I was there. After last year, I'm like, I'm never doubting that dude again. I was there. when he had his first real slump in 2021, and we were like, wow, like they're going to have a down here. And of course, they were in the AFC championship game. They do this a lot, though.

Like, they have these many slums, and the media kind of overreacts. And it's like, what's going on with Mahomes? It's like, no, man, when it gets time, he's going to turn it on. And I expect that to happen again. I just don't know if they have the horses around him because it's going to be tough to get out of that AFC, even for this team. Right. And so the first time I think I've ever said this, Zach, again, with an eight game simple size, like you said, that's real, that is substantial that we can really dig into. They are going to have to play a different style than they've come accustomed to.

And maybe the coaching staff will eventually come aboard because they are going to play tougher competition these next few weeks. But it's the first time in the Mahomes era where they might have to lean more on their defense than their offense. is the best he's ever had. You would agree? Yes, I would agree. And even yesterday, it's kind of comical because, you know, 17 of the 24 points that the Broncos scored, which again is the season high that the Chiefs have led up all year, is a direct result of the offense is incompetence in terms of turnovers.

So it's like, hey, the Chiefs for the Red So it's like, hey, the Chiefs for the Red So what happened? It's like, well, Patrick Mahomes saw Skymore open, refused to throw him the ball, and got strips at. And that time, you know, that happened. Hey, what happened? Like, they're only down five. Well, you know, McCle Hardman fumbled the ball to give the Broncos just a 10-yard drive.

That's all they had to go. It's 10 yards. Yeah, like that's not going to happen every week, but. Right. They're going to have to really rely on playing more, I guess, normal style football, which is execute when the chances are there. But Mahomes, especially if these receivers don't get better, Act, like Mahomes can't be all-world for large stretches of the game.

It's a dangerous way to live. And I understand what we're talking about. Like, he's that good. He's the one guy that can do it. He can take over playoff games. He's done it. But it's... But it is a dangerous way to live.

And if you have a couple drops in a playoff game, you're going home. I don't care who you're right. And so that's the fear if you're a cheese fan is, man, they've gotten so accustomed to having Mahomes be so great in the postseason. Well, what if his skill position players have a game similar to what they had yesterday, right? Right? And if Kelsey's bottled up because Kelsey's. Yes. And so maybe, you know, maybe the coaching staff will get better about figuring out ways to play off of Kelsey to open up something else for somebody else. They've done that a little bit with Rishie Rice.

But the defense with Chris Jones, you know, obviously Nick Bolton's got an injury, but he'll be back, you know, at some point in the second half of the season. They have great cornerbacks in Trent McDuffie and Legerious Knees. That's where I've seen the biggest jump. Like, oh, wow, they got players in the back end. It's not just like a bunch of 22-year-old rookies. And they're all competent, right? There's not really a hole to exploit the Chief's defense. So one of the things that I thought Sean Payton did really well yesterday was he did a lot of misdirection stuff.

Show one thing, lead to another, a lot of screens, a lot of bootlegs, end around, some play action, deep shots, which a lot of teams have not been able to execute this year. So it's a bit of a strange game, but their defense is still creating turnovers. They're still getting a lot of sacks. Chris Jones has taken up a lot of attention up front, and he's still been very, very productive, despite him kind of being in this unusual contract situation for a guy who's one of the best defensive players in the year. The offense is going to have to sort of play off the defense. And again, I've never said that before.

But until proven otherwise, that is the. main reason why they're six and two, right? They had one of the most impressive. Yeah, they've, it's been a slog on offense. It really has. The Jets game. I watched that and I was like, who is it? But then again, it's in the fourth quarter, Boholmes has the ball, you're never getting the ball back. And so that was like a real, okay, this is a, this is a new type of formula for winning, right? The defense does its job, doesn't let anything crazy happen. And then if it's, if it's close in the fourth quarter, you'll rely on, you know, old faithful, Patrick Mahomes, Travis Kelsey, Andy Reed. to sort of figure out how to squeeze the game, you know, to just advance to the next round.

So it's going to be great because the chiefs, I think, were most tested, honestly against the Jacksonville Jaguars, because they have Christian Kurt. They have Calvin Ridley. You know, they have Evan Ingram. They have really nice talents weapons, Travis E.T.N. They held them to nine points on the road. So the defense is capable of doing its part. and maybe even taking much more of a workload than in the past, but now they get the greatest test, which is speed upon speed upon speed. And if you're struggling with misdirection stuff against the diva Broncos, I'm pretty sure Mike McDaniels is going to see that on tape and try to sort of replicate it in his own way.

The Chiefs have never played Tyree Kill, and if they don't get pressure on Tuotonga, they will have a two-game skid entering their biweek where, yeah, you can see. say like, wow, the chiefs really need to like figure some things out. But I'm, I'm really fascinated with the idea that like Tripp McDuffie and Tyree Kiel are going to have snaps. And I'm not sure how it's going to go. You know, Tyree Kills burned a lot of people. I've seen it with my own eyes. So if the defense does well against the dolphins, that sort of solidifies that like, hey, this team is different for this particular reason. But who knows? We may be in Germany in it may be a shootout. It may be a great game. But Mahomes needs to rely, I think, a little bit more on his running backs. And somebody from the wide receiver group has to sort of

stand up and say, hey, man, you can trust me on third downs if Travis Kelsey's not immediately open. You know Tyreeks going to be up for this one. He was already talking about it yesterday. He was saying he wishes the game was an arrowhead. I know. I do too. Kind of in a way. Because you know, he's going to be, and they're like nothing you've seen. Like in terms of like, I mean, you could shut down the Jacksonville Jaguars, but it ain't shutting down this type of speed and this type of offense. I think the dolphins are going to come in motivated as hell because they have not beat any of the juggernauts. And the chiefs are the, they have the rings, they're the champs.

The dolphins need this more than the chiefs, but let me ask you, if that's how it goes, let's say the dolphins get the win. is there enough of a panic in Kansas City? Is there enough of a concern? Not necessarily about the defense like we talked about. But the offense, because nine games in, are they going to have enough weaponry around the best player in the world to hang every year?

Because it's really hard to make those runs deep into January and February every year. I wonder what the conversation is going to be like on Monday after this Dolphins game, if the chiefs cannot see some progress in that wide receiver group. Because there's not going to be any more trade calls next week because the trade deadline is tomorrow. Yeah. And, you know, as of right now, I don't think the chiefs are going to make a trade. They don't have a ton of salary cap space. They have about $3 million.

You know, they don't have a ton of picks either. So it's not like last year where they had, hey, we have 10 picks or the year before we have 12 picks. You know, so they're pretty much set with what they have. If they lose to the dolphins, which is in the, entirely possible. It's going to be how quickly can this coaching staff and this team improve between their by week, which is when a lot of teams obviously self-scout and sort of change some of their own tendencies between then and obviously when the playoffs start.

Because, you know, I think they're, I think the chiefs are going to win the division, even with yesterday's loss. So by winning your division. Oh, they're going to win the division. Yeah. You know, so. The chargers are the best. Yeah.

Yeah. So, you know, you're going to. get an automatic home playoff game. Now, you might not be the one seat, which again, makes the job harder. I love the point you make, Zach, about, like, just playing these games every January, what it does to your body is just, you're just playing almost another third of the season compared to, like, your peers, right? And, like, there's a lot of miles on Kelsey's legs. And Mahomes, only five, he's probably played an extra season already, it feels like. Yes. And so you gain that experience, but obviously you sort of, the other

part of it is your body is just, it's just been through a lot. So I'm fascinated to see how they would adjust, you know, if they lose to the dolphins because, you know, the dolphins have speed that the chiefs just haven't seen yet. And that's, that's okay, because that's the way the dolphins have built their offense. And I understand why. But look, even for someone like, you know, they're running backs, you know, the dolphins, like, hey, like, that's different than who you've played. That's Austin Echler. Or, you know, uh, the duel that the Broncos used yesterday, which is more bruising.

They're like a track team. They really are. The dolphins are like a track team. They really are. And so if they lose to the dolphins, I think I might write something kind of like this, Zach. And I don't want to say it out loud because, again, we know who the quarterback is.

We know who the coach is. He's proven it for six, seven years now. Zach, they got down double digits to the Denver Broncos and never threatened. and if they get down double digits to the dolphins and they don't win that game, then again, it kind of will go back to my point of, ooh, maybe you got to lean on the defense more because this is not the Chiefs that we are accustomed to,

which is, hey, we get down 10 points and the game really starts and we start this, you know, this blazing comeback. That was the strangest part of yesterday, I never felt like the Chiefs were going to come back. And I was like, I don't think I've ever said that before. I'm not in the home's era. Right. Like, just if you watch the game,

it was like, they're just not going to do it. I just, they don't have anything in sync. They don't have any momentum. They just don't have, and you never count them out because of Mahomes, but like it just, that's, that's, that's maybe the most concerning thing. Yeah. Yeah. Because before yesterday's game against the different Broncos, one of the most sneaky stats was

they had not been behind double digits all season. That's how good their defense was and how stabilizing Mahomes is despite, you know, some of the funkiness that you see from the offense from time to time, that no team could actually get up double digits on them this season. until yesterday. And then the Chiefs, in that type of scenario, played horrible. Like, I can't, I cannot stress that enough. They did.

Like, the offense was terrible once they were down 11 points. You know, it's 14-3. It's early in the first half still. And you're like, okay, they still got 30-something minutes to sort of, you know, chip away at this or Mahomes will do something spectacular, which is what he always does to get the game back into, you know, at least a chance to win. they had one opportunity and Skymore dropped the ball in the end zone.

That was it. So if the dolphins get up 13 or I don't know, 17, that Chiefs don't have the firepower to like to come back. What? Like, it's the Chiefs. Right. That's going to be the fascinating part. But that guy with the 10 jersey, he's not on your team anymore.

And he was such an instrumental part of you coming back in these, you know, You know, in these... He was the cheat coach. Yes, in these big games. Literally, he was like, there's no... Defenses didn't have an answer. So even though the defense knows you're passing the ball, even though the defense knows, hey, we get to rush the quarterback.

It actually worked against you because it just gave Mahomes more opportunities to just throw the ball, which he's excellent at. And so if you increase his passing attempts, he's usually going to leave the team down the field and score touchdowns. Again, it's just one game. I also understand that he played with the flu, which I don't ever want to do. I don't even want to write when I'm sick, let alone play a football game. I'm with you, man.

I was sick last week. I wouldn't. Yeah, you're right. Like, and again, he still threw gorgeous passes while being sick. He played pretty well, man. Those balls were on the money. And so, again, if they're down, I don't know, I kind of want to just like see it for myself. Like, man, if the crowd is like buzzing in Frankfurt and the dolphins are up 13 and the

chiefs are in the second half, like how do they respond? Because what they showed yesterday was not it. and it will be the, it'll kind of be the moment for me where I'm like, man, they have to play like a more conventional team. Like the game script has to be a certain direction. We have to be either within range or we have to be leading to sort of keep the game and the tempo on our terms. Because with that firepower in Miami, I can see a scenario where the Chiefs, I don't want to say get blown out, but it never felt like they were close, kind of like yesterday. That would be something. That would be something. But like you said, and the good news if you're a Kansas City Chiefs fan listening, every jugger, every elite team right now has flaws. Like Miami hasn't beaten anybody. Buffalo's had their issues. Baltimore looks pretty solid. Jacksonville. They've been up and down, they had a bad loss of the Texans. Even Philly in the NFC, like their fans are like, what's happening? We're not playing great. They're seven and one. You know, like the Chiefs are not playing great and they're six and two. So they still have 15. They still have 87. They still have Andy Reefs. read calling the plays.

But this is going to be a fun one. I think it could be Game of the Year type stuff in Germany. It's going to be fun. Like you mentioned, we're both going to be there. You'll be handling the Chief stuff. I'll be handling the Dolphin stuff. I cannot wait to watch this one. Sunday morning in Frankfurt,

maybe an AFC championship game preview, but we'll see what the Chiefs do in terms of handling Miami's speed and pressure. And I know the dolphins want this one. They want to be able to say they can hang with the best in the AFC. we'll see what happens. We'll see what happens when Tyreek meets his old friends. But Nate, thanks for hopping on, man. It's going to be a fun week in Germany.

And obviously, since you cover the Chiefs, we're going to have you back on the show a lot more of this season. Yeah, looking forward to it. And who do that Germany was going to have the best game in the AMC this year? No one, no one wanted this. The best football game, this coming Sunday, ladies and gentlemen, is not on American soil. Just perfect NFL.

Perfect. And it's at 9.30 in the morning. The poor people in the West Coast who want to see this game. I mean, just, yeah. Although it's not the worst thing in the world to wake up and have some coffee and watch the Chiefs and the Dolphins. There are worst ways to start. There are worse ways. That is true. That is true.

Look, whether it's Premier Soccer or F1, I get it. So, yeah, thanks for having me on. And yeah, let's see how this all plays out in a few days. All right, that's a wrap. For week eight of Kiefer in the Beats, I want to thank Nate Taylor in Kansas City, John Moshoda in Dallas, and Michael Sean Dugar in Seattle

for their insight, information, and knowledge of the teams they cover. As you guys know, no one knows these teams quite like the beatwriters that are there every day. Great insight from all of them today on teams that are going to be factors in December, in January, and possibly even February. So special shout out to Michael Sean for hopping on and really reacting in real time to the Leonard Williams trade. I think his response told you it was a little bit of surprise, but also it says the Seahawks are saying something with this move. They think they can be contenders this year.

he said, they're being proactive and not reactive. That was really good stuff. Full slate of shows this week on the Athletic Football Show podcast feed. Nate and Robert will obviously have their week nine preview. We'll have in the pocket with Chase Daniel, Prospect of Pros with Dane Bruegler and the Football Gianne podcast with Randy Mueller and Mike Sando. So another great week is coming up. I will not be with you guys next week. I'll be coming home from Germany. We'll I'll be helping Nate cover Dolphins Chiefs. So excited for that one. going to be an awesome game.

I believe Robert will be stepping in for me, so he'll do a great job, as you guys know. Thank you so much for listening. Hope you enjoyed the episode, and I will catch up with you guys in a couple of weeks. This was The Athletic Football Show.