The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Kurt Warner on Mac Jones, cerebral QBs & the state of quarterback play in 2021

Episode Date: December 15, 2021

Robert Mays is joined by Hall of Famer Kurt Warner to break down the different styles of quarterback play we are seeing across the NFL in 2021. They discuss how Mac Jones has been successful this season, the art of reading the defense’s body language and the offenses that are doing a good job at making things easy on the quarterback. They also talk about footwork, technique and much more.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Football Show. The Athletic Football Show is presented by State Farm, because like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Get a quote today. Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. Today is Wednesday, December 15th. Really fun show for you guys today. All season, we've kind of talked about how different types of quarterbacks have succeeded in the NFL this year.

Think about the guys that have taken the league by storm over the last few seasons. Lamar Jackson, Kyle Murray, Patrick Mahalo. Josh Allen, Justin Herbert. There are these hyper-talented guys, their physical gifts, jump off the screen to you. And that was a distinction from the era that had proceeded with guys like Tom Brady and Peyton Manning and Drew Brees and Philip Rivers. And it feels like this season has been kind of a throwback

to what those quarterbacks felt like, guys like Joe Burrow, guys like Mack Jones. So I wanted to talk to somebody that understood how to play the position that way, that thrived playing the position that way. And we got Kurt Warner to do that. And few guys can understand this and articulate this better than he can. So I really hope you guys enjoy our chat with NFL media's Kurt Warner about all things quarterbacking in 2021. I am thrilled now to welcome Hall of Fame NFL quarterback, one of my favorite quarterback analysts right now on the planet.

Kurt Warner. Kurt, thank you very, very much for doing this. I sincerely appreciate the time. You bet. Good to be on. So we were talking a little bit before we started. I just wanted to get you specifically on for this conversation because when we were talking to John back earlier this year about the rookie quarterbacks,

he mentioned Mack Jones. And he mentioned that Mack Jones reminded him of you and the way that you played the position. And I feel like this season specifically has been kind of a pivot from what we've seen over the last three or four years where all these young quarterbacks in the league had this supernova of talent and ability. The Josh Allen's, the Justin Herberts, the Lamar Jackson's, Patrick Mahal. homes and it felt like we were going to transitioning out of an era where guys were winning with their minds and maybe the guys that didn't have that eye-popping physical set of gifts were kind of going by the wayside in the NFL. And now with Mack and Joe Burrow and even Jack Prescott to a certain extent, it feels like

that picture is getting a little bit muddier. So I wanted to ask you just on a general level, do you feel like this year has kind of been a throwback, has kind of been a hearkening back to that era with Tom Brady and Philip Rivers and Drew Brees of that. kind of quarterback. Has it been a reminder that those guys can still be really successful? Yeah, I believe it's been a reminder that there's lots of different ways to play the quarterback position. Yeah. And, you know, so where probably a decade ago, you saw more guys like myself, more guys like Tom Brady that played the game inside the pocket, played it with their mind first

and their athleticism second. And then we have this transition over the last five or six years where It's like, oh, now everybody wants the athletic guy because they can do all of this stuff. And I think that was a shift for us all to go, oh, wow, you can play in the NFL a different way. You can play the quarterback position with athleticism and doing those extra things. But I think Tom Brady is a constant reminder to us that no matter what age, if you know how to play the position, you can play it. But I do think it's a great reminder to young quarterbacks to say, what are your gifts? What are your strengths? Because athleticism can obviously carry you to the highest level. But I'm a believer, and I think I

will always be a believer, that if you know how to play the game, meaning if you know who you're supposed to be looking at defensively, if you know how to throw a football different ways, you always have a chance to be successful as long as your talent is good enough to equal the level that you're playing at. And I think I'm a perfect example of that is that I wasn't overly athletic. I didn't have this overly huge arm, but I knew how to throw a football. And I knew what I was looking at. I could process information very, very quickly. And so I think for young athletes that, you know, are coming up and they get the ball put in their hands to be a quarterback, you're not just in one realm now where before it was like, oh, you got to know how to play in

the pocket. And then it was, oh, you got to be an athlete. And then it was, oh, you got to be an athlete. But it doesn't happen. If you're good at playing the position, however you're good at playing the position, you have a chance to not only reach the highest level, but play at an extremely high level in the NFL, as we've seen from all the guys you're talking about, even though they do it different ways. Where I thought that a guy like Mack might struggle is that these guys that we've seen come into the league over the last few years, they have solutions to problems because

of their athleticism. Or even with Justin Herbert, if he was a little bit laid on a throw, just the mustard he can put on the football allows you to solve things when maybe your mind isn't fully developed. So with a guy like Mack Jones, I thought it might require a little bit of a long runway, but he's doing it right away. What allows it to just kind of immediately click with some guys where you don't need that 15, 20 years backlog of information that a Philip Rivers or a Tom Brady has? I don't think it necessarily immediately clicks.

I think what people don't realize is that guys like Mack Jones, and again, I'll reference myself. We had to learn how to do that much earlier than these other guys. These other guys have been used to going, oh, I don't really have to learn and process information as fast because I'll bail myself out. And I've gotten used to bailing myself out athletically, whereas guys like myself, we have to learn how very early on how to bail ourselves out mentally. We've got to know where our hops are. We've got to know where our pressure issues are. We've got to know where our quick throws are because we're not going to have the ability to buy time and make some of those special throws. So, you know, I've always said it. It's, you know,

it's one of, I guess, those catch-22s is that, you know, oftentimes I'll look back and go, man, how good could I have been if I could run like Lamar Jackson? But then I think there's part of me that says, well, if I could do that, I probably wouldn't have been nearly as good of a pocket passer because I wouldn't have had to learn that sort of stuff. And, you know, and I think it's the same with athletic quarterbacks is these guys are so athletic now. I mean, you know, before we saw athletic quarterbacks, but very seldom did we see the best players or the best athletes on the field being quarterbacks like we see with Kylo Murray and Lamar Jackson and those types of guys. And so for them, I think they've relied so much on their athleticism that sometimes they have to take a step back in learning how to play the position when they get to the NFL. and they miss a lot of things that a guy like Mac Jones or myself wouldn't miss because we're in tune with that stuff.

But they've got the ability sometimes to miss things and then make it a bigger play because of their athleticism. So I think both sides have some pluses and minuses to them. And the bottom line at the end of the day is we're going to look at all these guys 10 or 15 years from now. And we're going to say which one became the most complete quarterback? You know, the best career will be the guy that has the most complete skill set along the way. Now, of course, the athletic quarterbacks probably have the advantage because Mac Jones and myself, we're not getting faster. We're not getting more elusive.

You know, that's not something we're going to gain 10 years into this thing. But we can still grow mentally and get better at that, kind of like we see guys like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady do. But you're just kind of sitting back and hoping the Kyler Murray's and Lamar Jackson's and those types of guys that they can learn how to play inside the pocket. And you couple that with their unbelievable physical skills. And that's when we start seeing transcendent quarterbacks. And I think Patrick Mahomes is probably a great example.

Kind of the mix of both. Maybe not quite the athlete of the guys that I mentioned, but a really good athlete and better than a lot of quarterbacks. And then he's got the cerebral part where he's ahead of the game that way. So you get that mix. and we see what the capabilities are when you have that mix, as we've seen with Patrick Holmes earlier in his career. When you've been talking about, your channel is great if people have not checked it out on YouTube.

It's just such a wealth of information. And you were talking about Joe Burrow or in the season and how you enjoyed watching him because his eyes are always where they're supposed to be. And there's just such a cool aspect of watching the quarterback position played that way. How do you pick up on that? Obviously, you see where he's looking. But how do you notice that a young guy's eyes are where they're supposed to be? on a given play.

To me, yeah, first you're obviously going to look at the head position and where he's looking. But, you know, you can watch a lot of film and a guy can be looking in the right direction and they still don't throw it to the guy that you think they should throw it to. That lets you know, they probably don't know what they're looking at. But so to me, it's all about timing and understanding, A, where their eyes need to go based on the rotation of the defense or what the defense is doing. But then the timing. So when they should be getting the read on a particular.

player, are they getting the read on the particular player? And so it's all those aspects. Get your eyes to the right spot, looking at the right guy, and then being able to tie that to the physical and get the ball out to the right guy in the right position on the football field. And so, again, it's always relative when you're watching film because you're not in a meeting room and you don't know what they're being taught and the progression. But when you play this game long enough, you see certain concepts and you understand. at least in my opinion what they should be doing, where their eyes should be, where the timing of a particular throw should be so certain defenders can't come into play when they shouldn't be

involved in a particular play. So it's all that wealth of knowledge that I've had playing the game for so long. And now I try to tie that to, okay, the eyes and the feet and the timing. And who are those guys that are really, really good at putting all those things together from a mental standpoint? It seems like watching Mac right now. There have been a few throws that jumped out to me where he's just so good at playing with that cover two corner when he was supposed to be in the flat. He'll pull him up and then throw a whole shot down the sideline or he'll throw it to the flat when that guy's sinking deep. Is that to you like one of the first little indicators? Like if I can do this high load of this corner right here, that's a small sign that I'm going in the right direction here.

Like my development is headed in the right way. I like to use the term body language is that a lot of people in that, who will use that example you're talking about a high low on the cream a lot of people can you know feel the corner out there and so they feel okay the corner's getting a little bit of depth so now i can i'll throw it underneath or he's you know a little bit more shallow i'll throw it up over the top but what i like to watch is body language and what i mean by that is so we're using that same example if the corner has his hips open um you know so i'll say perpendicular to the line of scrimmage that lets me know as a quarterback, he can play both the high and the low.

I'm going to probably have to take the low throw there. So he's baiting me into to make it a deeper throw. As soon as that corner flips his hips, so they're parallel to the line of scrimmage, now I say to myself, if he's going to play the deep throw, he's got to spin his whole body and try to make a play on the football. And so you'll see a lot of quarterbacks that spatially can kind of feel where a guy's at. to me the next level is can you see the body language do you understand that that guy might be in a position to take away the corner but it all depends on his hips hips turned this way he can hips turns another way he can and so those are the things that I look at is like you see that right away and you go oh it's hips are flat

right over the top like to me that's a natural thing but you know I coach high school football um you know and what is natural to me I know isn't natural to to a lot of guys they have to learn and really study. And some guys will study and they'll never be able to understand and see all of that at the speed in which they have to see it. But that's to me a true indicator. When I see guys throwing off the body language, that lets me know that they've slowed the game down and they truly understand what they're looking at on a particular play. And that's why when Mack was coming out, I was so amazed at his ability to put the ball

into open space all the time. It reminded me of Philip Rivers in that way, where he trusts the space. so much that you'd see him putting it into areas because he understands the structure of the defense. And that feels like a feel thing. It feels like it's something he innately understands. When there's someone who doesn't, what's the biggest hurdle? What is the major hurdle you have to get over to reach that point? Well, you say it's in aid.

I don't know if it's as much in aid is, you know, we go back to the eyes, is that if I'm reading a defense and I got my eyes on the right guy, and that guy does something in particular, I know now I can trust that he can't cover a certain area in the field. And so that to me is where it really starts, is that you've got to know what you're looking at. You've got to know and verify what that guy's doing very quickly. So you know if he's covering this, he can't cover that.

And I think the biggest hurdle, once again, for a lot of these guys is the game goes so fast. And a lot of guys, especially through college, they run what we call pure progression type systems. And so what a pure progression type system is is it's basically saying it doesn't matter what the defense does. This guy is going to be your number one no matter what. This guy will be your number two.

This guy will be your three and this guy will be your four. So there's pure progression. And oftentimes within the pure progression, they're not teaching you necessary to look at defenders. They're saying look at that number one receiver. And if he's open, throw it to him. and I've always made the contention, okay, A, what's open? What does that mean?

How do you define open? And then the second part to that is if you're not reading defenders, so the defender tells you whether he's open or not, now there's a timing element that disappears. Because now I'm looking at this guy and it's like, okay, how long do I get before I decide if he's open or if he's not open? And so when do I need to get to my number two guy? because to me so much of play in this position is the timeliness of why you're getting to the number two.

This defender moves that way. Well, good. I got to throw this ball in that window that he just voided. Otherwise, it doesn't matter what he's doing. And so that to me is the biggest hurdle. A lot of these guys haven't really been taught how to read defenses, where to get their eyes. And the stuff that we talked about with body language, a guy like Matt understands them. So if he knows that this defender takes two steps to his left,

left, he can't cover that window that's inside of him. Boom, I can let the football go because I know I've verified what he's doing. But that to me is the biggest hurdle. When you're used to reading receivers, and now we're trying to teach you to read defenders and what that means because, you know, the defender is not going to be the same defender every time. I mean, he's going to be covering the same area, but it could be a safety one time. It could be a lineback.

Sometimes it could be a defensive end popping out. You have to understand within the structure. the defense, who that defender becomes now. So it just seems easier, I think, to a lot of coaches, especially in college. We want our guy to play quickly. Forget about teaching him how to read defenders. Just go look at your receiver. He's open throw it to him.

You know, if that guy's not open, then go to the next guy and throw it to him. And ultimately, I think it's a detriment to quarterbacks because they don't develop that timing and that understanding and that trust in what they can do and where they can throw the football because they're not really verifying where the defenders are. You know, I just did a piece just last week, you know, on our NFL show, game day morning, about Jimmy Garcliffe. And you'll notice oftentimes his interceptions, he's throwing it right to a defendant. It's that one robber coverage, right? Like, he just can't seem to figure it out.

Or it's just, it's really just the middle of the field. But, you know, we use the one robber coverage as an example. But the bottom line is more he's caught looking at his receiver instead of. So if a guy's running a crossing route, I always know to myself. I've got to see in front of the crossing down. I got to know what's out there in front of it because I know where he's going. So I'm reading that defender that's out in front. If you're reading your receiver, all you're doing is you're looking at him and going,

oh, did he beat the guy right there? Throw it to him. But you're oblivious to what's coming from the other direction. And so that to me is kind of a simple example of what I mean by pure progression. Look at your receiver. Is he open throw it to him or look at defenders? Understand what's out in front of your route and whether you can or cannot throw it. to him and you'll see a lot of young

quarterbacks get into trouble that way where you watch the film and you're like, how did you not see that guy? We didn't see him because he wasn't looking for him. He was looking for his guy and he's looking off of the defendant that's maybe behind his guy or whatever instead of verifying the space that he's

throwing the football and that's what Matt Jones does so well. How would you characterize the alternative to a pure progression? What would you call it, like the differing system or differing way of doing it? What I call it, I call it a full field read. And so what that means, and so what that means is that I've got to play and my read will change based on what the defense does. So if the defense rolls to recover two, now instead of being my number one receiver over here to the right,

now my number one receiver goes to the left. Or if the corner's off to the right hand side, now my number one receiver comes over there. And so I'm reading the entire field and basing my read on a particular concept based off of what I'm seeing from a big picture standpoint as opposed to it's always the same regardless of what I see. A really good example of that to me is the play that you pointed out that the Bengals ran a bunch late against the Jags, and it's a staple of the Patriots playbook. It's an empty set where the two outside guys run hitches,

two inside guys run seams, and then the guy in the middle either runs a juke or out or a little bit of a choice. Hoff's wide juke is what they call it. And that's a Patriots just all-timer. They ran it against the Rams a bunch in the Super Bowl. We've seen it a million different times. And I'm wondering, is there something inherent

about the way the Patriots offense is structured, the way they teach the position, that you feel puts quarterbacks in positions to be successful and also allows them to grow in a way that other offenses that maybe are a little bit more constrained don't. Well, I think it's just having good quality past concepts. And so for me, I'm always a firm believer that if you can create concepts that put a defender in a bind, that's a good concept. And, you know, the one thing that you realize is that, you know, again, I coach high school football. And every play I design, I shouldn't say everyone, but most plays that I design are designed for zone coverages, you know, that I want to give you options against zone coverage.

I can do a lot of things against man. If we're getting man, I can be creative. I can switch releases. I can stack people and bunch people. And I can give you an advantage against man. What I really want is I want you to have an answer against every zone that you see. I want to put somebody in a bind on every single play. Now, the question for the quarterback is, okay, you've got to realize who that guy is.

But I think Josh McDaniels does that extremely well with his system, is that he always puts a guy in conflict. And, you know, the bottom line is having a quarterback that can understand that. And, you know, he's been pretty fortunate that he's had the best quarterback of all time, you know, for 20 years. and then he's got a guy here shortly after that plays the game very similarly, that understands that position of conflict and can get his eyes there and make decisions based off of it. And so I think it's just good quality concepts for the most part and good quality feel by the quarterbacks that allow that system to work. And I think your point to that particular play, I call it Brady's favorite because they've run it all the time.

but you know it's got so many different options in that play depending on what the defense does and so you know as long as you can process that information and understand we can run the same quality concepts over and over and over again you mentioned in the super bowl the Patriots ran up three straight times and they threw it to a different guy each time that they ran it but three straight plays against the you know the Rams in the Super Bowl led to the big play to bronc would set up their one touchdown um but But it's a good quality concept that you don't have to go. We don't have to create 250 pass plays. If we can create some good quality concepts, it can be good against every coverage. And we've got a quarterback that understand what makes it good and where to go with the football. You know, we don't have to overcomplicate this game.

I always use the term, make the game as simple as possible as quickly as possible. That's how I want to play the quarterback position. I want to eliminate as many guys as I possibly can as quickly as I possibly can because that gives me the best opportunity to succeed. And a lot of times that comes from having a good quality concept and the Patriots are Josh McGahnel do a great job at that. Do you have any other examples, just offenses that you feel like do a really good job consistently of putting guys in conflict to make the game easier on their quarterbacks?

You know, I think Frank Bright does a great job. Maybe a little more simplified than a lot of systems and how he does it. But because they have a good running game, he's done a great job with Carson Wentz, of getting Carson's eyes in the right spot and giving him good quality concepts to be able to read the high lows or the ins and outs on those plays. I think Andy Reed to a whole other level does things like that. And I say a whole other level because there's only certain quarterbacks that can process as much as Amy Reed asks you to process in their offense. You know, and what I mean by that is the reads can change so dramatically and who you,

you need to see and where you need to go with your eyes. And he's fortunate that he's got a guy like Patrick and Holmes that they can really push the envelope with what they do. But they do some great things scheme-wise to really create some great opportunities for the quarterback if you have the ability to see the entire field. Can you give me an example? Well, I mean, it's hard, I guess, to give you an example. But, you know, the bottom line is that the way I like to.

to look at it is that you can draw a play up on a board. And on the board, you can say to yourself, okay, we're running this play and we're going to try to get this guy open. And so most quarterbacks, you know, that start in the NFL can take that on the field and they go, okay, I get this look. I'm probably going to throw it to that guy. If I get this look, I'm probably going to throw it to that guy because I'm going to know what we're trying to get and how we're trying to get this guy open. And then what Andy Reid will do is he'll also have to. two or three other routes that, you know, he probably wouldn't tell most quarterbacks,

but a guy like Patrick Mahombs, you say, but Patrick, if they do this, that guy over there, you may have a shot at it. You know, or this guy over here, if they push the coverage,

that way. Some people that just overloads them and you're like, oh my gosh, I don't know what you're talking. I talk, I use the term, can you be creative within a play? In other words,

can everybody become an option on a play? based on what a defense does. And I've seen that happen a couple times with Patrick Mahomes, where I know a guy is not even, probably was never thrown to in practice. And they probably told him, hey, you're really just more of a clear-out route right here. But I've seen Patrick come back and feel the defense condensed

or feel, you know, a guy press you and him trying to cover a guy with a defensive end. And all of a sudden he's popping the ball out to a guy that you probably never even talked about in that room on a particular play. And so the ability to be creative within a play to understand when numbers four and five or when decoys one and two actually become viable options in your offense. And I appreciate it so much. I felt like that was something that I could do really, really well. And so when I played with Mike Marks, everybody was always locked because we had no idea what a team was going to do. And there would be times we'd run plays in games that we never even practiced.

we talked about it on the board. There be times we throw it to guys that we never even talked about throwing it to just because you just be able to recognize how the picture plays out in the moment and then the ability to process that and react to it and everybody really understanding what they were supposed to do and being live. And so that's the kind of fun things that Andy Reid does that a lot of people would probably see it and even a lot of quarterbacks that play would probably see it and not be able to understand how Patrick Mahon.

Holmes got someplace or why that guy was so important. Whereas when I watch it, I love watching that stuff because I'm like, there's no way, you know, Andy Reid probably thought, you know, Patrick could get to that guy. Now he got to that guy. And so now Andy can go into his, you know, his office and go, okay, well, if Patrick can see that, now I can design this plane, I can add this and I can add that. And, you know, you start pushing that envelope to see how far you can possibly go. Justin Herbert seems to another example where he's throwing clearouts and alerts and

routes that are typically supposed to create space for other people, and he's just launching them. There's a play he threw against, I think it was two weeks ago, where they have that clear-out with the deep over, that's like a staple of the Shanahan playbook, and usually you're trying to hit the over, but instead he's throwing it 50 yards to the clear-out guy because that's on the table for him,

in a way it isn't for some of the other quarterbacks we've seen in that offense. And I wouldn't say it's not necessarily on the table, but back to what I was saying, a lot of guys can't see it. Yeah. They can't understand when that becomes a possibility and the ability to see that and then get to those other things on time. I'm not sure if it's the play you were talking about or not.

But the game winner against the Steelers was a great example. He actually hit Mike Williams on a strict go route down the sideline against cover two because the corner started to clamp this underneath hook route that they were running. And they ran it numerous times in the game and the corner started to come off and try to stay. squeeze that. So here they are at the last minute where you don't even really think about it. You're coming off to try to jam that little quick hook in. And he feels a little bit of a squeeze. And with that squeeze, he's able to understand the safety has to push over fast enough. Boom, ball out of his hand. Mike Williams, safety can't react. 60 yards later, they win that football game. And so it is. It's the ability to say everything's live, but what really becomes live for you?

Some quarterbacks, it's two guys. Some it's three, some it's five. And obviously, the more fun that you can have and the more successful you're going to be is when you can see all five guys and understand when they become viable options based on strictly what you see in a game. Because you're never going to be able to plan for all of that. You don't run those plays against every different look. So now that, oh, Justin Rubber. Oh, this was that look that we ran on Tuesday. No, most of the times it's, oh, we're going to run a look to give us what we're.

expecting the pro so you can see that over and over again. And now do you have the ability in the course of the game to go, oh, they did something different, boom, let me react to it. And now we get a 50-yard play instead of a five-yard play. The last thing I want to ask you about is just how footwork and timing fits into this. You mentioned Carson Wentz. And I remember talking to Frank Wright during training camp and talking about how Carson's footwork, they hated his base in the pocket late and during his time in Philly.

He felt like it was too wide and he couldn't react to different things within the pocket because the route structures weren't time to his feet. And now when you watch Joe Burrow especially, I just feel like his balance in the pocket and his ability to get the ball to everybody because of that is so excellent. Is that something that you feel like is almost a strength of guys that aren't that athletic because they are so on balance and just so in control?

It almost feels like that's a similar thing, where they had to learn it so they might be better at. Without a, technique is vital. For A, making layups. you know, I see so many people with bad feet. And guys are so talented that most times, you know, on a shorter throw with bad feet, they'll get away with it and they'll still complete passes. But I always say it's always going to catch up to you.

You have bad feet. You have bad technique. You have a bad base. It will always catch up to you. And, you know, the thing that you're talking about is the first thing to me about playing quarterback is you always want to be balanced. Because if you're balanced, now you can make throws without movement. you know that if your guard gets pushed back in your lap you don't have to hitch and get back

into balance to make a throw you could just get the ball out or on timing rounds like you're running a choice route you know and you think a guy's going to break outside so you kind of set up to throw outside and now he breaks back to the inside can you make that throw and the only way is if a weight stays loaded on the back foot or on on the back leg where now i can still transfer that weight even though I can't get my foot in the right direction. Other guys, they struggle with that because they get their weight all up front, and now it becomes an alarm and they start missing throw. So balance and technique to me is vital.

And a big part of that, as you're saying, is being able to tie your feet to the route. Making sure that the timing of your feet, and I always say, you want to beat the route with your feet. You always want to be ahead of the route. So you're set and you're ready to throw a route on time. but you don't want to be too far ahead of it because you get too far ahead of it and now all of a sudden you're starting to hitch twice and as soon as it's a quarterback we get set and we start to hitch a clock goes off in our head right because it's like okay what am i doing holding the football like i'm holding the football longer than i know i should in my mind so our clock starts to go off so a lot of guys will set too quickly based on the structure of what route they're running so they set too quickly so they get through their progressions too quickly. They get off of their reeds because they get there and they're hitching. They're like, oh, it's not open yet. Well, the guy isn't even into his route yet, you know,

but you're saying he's not open because your feet are telling you you should be moving on. And so it does become vital. And one of the issues I was when I work with my young quarterbacks, I always start them under center because routes are tied to footwork from under center. And too many of these guys start and only play in the shotgun. So they've never developed timing because I don't believe there is a true timing to taking a shotgun snap, taking certain footwork, and tying it to all the different rounds. Because, I mean, who knows what the shotgun snap is like? You know, shotgun snap comes to my left. It throws all my footwork off. So now what's my drive? You know, where the ball comes back faster or slower than it normally does, now what's

my footwork? And so, so many of these guys that play all in the shotgun, they never develop that sense of timing and rhythm that goes with different routes. And it hurts so many quarterbacks because they're never set in the right position to throw the football when they need to be. And again, you get away with that and you get away with it. But it's always going to catch up to you. And I think a couple of great examples are Patrick Mahomes and Aaron Rogers. We've seen both of those guys make stupid, ridiculous threats. You know, I mean, Aaron Rogers have times with both feet are in the air. It's like, it makes no sense. I don't even know how you do it.

Patrick Mahomes is going one direction and he's throwing it back the other direction. But if you watch those guys play, I promise you, they're going to miss a lot of throws that if their technique was right are layups for those guys. You know, throws that you just say, how in the world can that guy miss that throw? They miss it because of their technique. And so they're gifted. They do some great things technique-wise to make up for it. but it will always catch up to them at certain times in certain moments.

Now, you know, they're good enough to overcome it most of the time. But then you have guys that aren't as talented and they have the same bad footwork. Now it catches up to them more and more. Now there's a lack of consistency in their game. And so I'm a guy that is always looking for technique first because I believe technique can carry you if you're really, really good at it. Talking about the choice routes and how that footwork works with that. Burrow and Tyler Boyd are such a perfect example. I mean, they're devastating on that because he can wait for it because he's always on balance.

And it feels like the balance part comes with confidence. That footwork and that smoothness, you just have to have an assuredness with the way you play. And it feels like both Joe Burrow and Mack Jones are kind of in that space, even as young players right now. You can almost feel how comfortable they are when you watch them. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I think it's always knowing again, you know, what your possibilities are and what you're capable of doing from different. positions and and then rhythm you know because rhythm is a big part of that you know trusting what you're seeing trusting where you're going and so you can stay loaded on a you know on your back foot

and ready to throw or you know if a guy fools you're in a position where you know what that quick reaction is and you can still complete that pass where other guys bad technique and the weight's going up front of up and all of a sudden the guy does something they don't expect now they've got to take a complete reset to get back and throw it to that guy. And by that time the window's closed and it's over. And so again, I think a big part of that is going back and understanding the big picture possibilities and then also staying within rhythm. So you're ready to make those quick adjustments and get the ball out quickly, even when

you don't get the perfect look. Awesome. Well, I don't want to take up any more of your time. I sincerely appreciate this. Your insight on this is invaluable. So thank you very, very much for taking the time to do this with us. You got it. I love talking ball. So let's catch up again sometime and talk some more. All right, guys. That's all we got. Thank you so much to Kurt for his time. He's got a million different things going on. He's got a movie about his life coming out here in the next week or so. So really appreciate him taking the time out of his day to do that. Appreciate you guys listening. Please rate and review the podcast.

Your podcast platform of choice, you want to go to Apple Podcasts, click on some stars, give us a little review. It would mean a lot to me. please subscribe to The Athletic.com slash football show could be a great gift for somebody in your life that does not have an athletic subscription. So please consider that. We'll be back tomorrow with Lindsay Jones and a team visit with our Niners writer, Matt Barrow's. Until then, appreciate you guys. We'll talk to you soon.

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