The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Kyler Murray magic, Rams top Seahawks, Ben Roethlisberger has a day, buying the Dolphins & more in our week 10 reaction

Episode Date: November 16, 2020

From Kyler Murray & DeAndre Hopkins' hail mary, to the Rams topping the Seahawks, week 10 in the NFL was full of viral moments, incredible plays, and some bad ones as well. So join Robert Mays and Nate Tice as they review the best of the best from the weekend of NFL action such as Ben Roethlisberger keeping the Steelers undefeated, what's going on with Drew Lock, the Philadelphia Eagles falling apart, and an intriguing "Would You Rather" concerning the AFC East.Remember to sign up for The Athletic for $1 at theathletic.com/footballshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays. Joining me tonight. It's my good friend Nate. Tice, Nate, how you doing, buddy? Doing great. Oh, my God.

It really threw me for a loop today with the Masters pushing the games all to the afternoon. So, like, my whole internal Sunday clock now has got screwy again. I'm going to get used to these Sundays one day and actually be like prep for it to watch all these games. So this is to be careful of what you wish for sort of. situation because all the time I always complain that there aren't enough games in the afternoon. So why would they do 10 and 3? And I know it's for TV and whatever else. But I've been asking for this for years. And then it comes up and it's split half and half and I hated it. Yeah. I hated it because it's just there's a level of franticness in the early slate. And when it dies down late,

it's like, oh, this is nice. I can exhale. I can calm down. There's only three games on. I can sit back. They're usually the better games. Today, none of that. Not quite as frantic as it normally would be during the early slate of games, but just enough where it was going the entire day. Scott Hanson's way too energetic for seven straight hours instead of three and a half. I don't think I want this all the time. And I'm sorry that I complained in years past because now that I've seen it in all its glory,

I think I actually like the normal setup better. I mean, we've gotten everything this year. We got double-heder Monday games. We got Tuesday games. It really has been an experiment. It's been like the proving ground for different sorts of scheduling in the NFL because of strange COVID things. And maybe I'm just a creature of habit, but I like the way that it used to be. I like the way it normally goes.

The Tuesday night game has still screwed with me so much. Never again. Like just never again. When I worked at Pitt, when I was a GA there, we had a Wednesday night game. And that messed me up because just everything's off. We went from, I think, a Friday night game to a Wednesday night game because that's how the big was. We were in the last year, big east at Pitt. And oh my God, that Wednesday night game against Syracuse, I still think about it because I was just like Tuesday night, we're

traveling, like just weird, just weird. I don't know. Yeah, still not used to that. Imagine if you played in the Mac for four years, just the travel schedule you have to get used to. So a wild day, and there's a lot to get to. We're going to talk about, you know, the Dolphins Big win. We're going to talk about really a lot of stuff going on in the NFC. We're going to talk about Ben Rothesberger having a really nice day. The Steelers staying undefeated. We're going to talk about your boy Drew Locke a little bit. Tons of stuff that we're going to eventually get to. I want to start though with easily the craziest part of that frantic day. And that was that finish in the Cardinals game. I mean, at a certain point, you just kind of

in your mind like, all right, this is over. You know, it doesn't, well, they'll throw a hell, Mary, but this is over. It's been a long time since we've seen one work. There's been a few of them this year. even if it's Kyle and Murray making a play even it's Sandra Hopkins making a play you just kind of write it off. When Alan hits that throw to digs in the back of the end zone which is beautiful by the way

it's like nicely done great win for the bills come on the road Cardos didn't have their best game but you have to beat good teams on the road if you're going to do what the bills want to do huge win for them. Then all of that goes out the window

when that ball was in the air did you think it had any chance of being completed? The fact that he even got it off I was shocked because I mean the bill I tweeted this, but bills did everything perfect. They blitzed from the right-hand side so Kyle couldn't escape contain to the right.

He had to go to his left. He had to break a tackle and he was spinning. And then he was managed to just torque his body and still throw out 50 yards. Like just perfect arc. Of course, it's the best 50-50 ball winner and one of the best deep ball throwers in the league. So it's like, if anyone were to do this, this is a pretty good pairing to complete a Hail Mary. I didn't think the ball would get off. No way I thought it would be completed.

Literally as a ball got snapped, my phone texted at it. glanced down and all I saw was Hopkins. So, and then I saw it was like, uh, okay. And then all of some of the play happened. So I got, I had a quick spoiler before, but my brain doesn't work fast enough to kind put together what was about to happen. The throw was amazing. And him drifting to his left and it was a throw the very few guys can make.

And it's always so funny when he uncorks those deep throws, this little body. It's just, it looks cool every time it happens. And this was the perfect chance to do it. So the photo of Hopkins going up to get the ball is a, amazing. I mean, it's three guys. They all have their hands on it. Somehow he comes down with it. So, I don't know if I've ever even told you this. So like four years ago when I was working at the ringer, I went to Houston. I profiled the under Hopkins. And I hung out with him all day. And they did a photo shoot at this beautiful house in like the woodlands, which is like a

suburb outside Houston. Then we got lunch. I can't remember where it was. It was like a steakhouse, like a strip mall, which is not surprising in Houston. And we were just alone in this back dining room. We started that's probably an hour. And we talked and we talked about a bunch of different stuff and his hands came up. And his hands are huge. I post the picture on Twitter. So when you look at it, he has 10-inch hands, but what's really strange is why they're big. And there's just a huge gap between the bottom of his fingers and the top of his palms.

And it creates this natural webbing. And I talked to Taj Boyd for the story. And I always loved his quote that he had. He said, I think that God truly makes people for certain things. Michael, Michael Phelps has that long torso with a short body with stumpy legs and web feet. He's built to swim. Newcast he's super long arms, big hands. Shit, I don't know.

He's just built for this. And when you see him catch that ball in that moment, he literally was put on earth to catch footballs like that. And he has been amazing for them. I mean, he's been everything they wanted him to be. He's one of the best players in the NFL and he comes up with a huge play in a huge moment. Truly one of those rare guys. So that that's just unguarded. Yeah, just like an unguardable guy.

He's not a yak monster, but he gets it. Like he'll get an extra 5, 10 yards. But he's a guy that truly wins on every route that like, so who cares? You know? And I still cannot believe he's 6-1. That's like the thing that just still blows my mind. It's like every time I watch him, he's like, okay. Like if you were just to watch him for the first time, be like, that guy looks 6.3, 6.4.

Easy. Because that's just how he played. Easy. Yeah. And he just plays like a, I don't know, like an undersized power forward just banging down there and just like he just plays bigger than he is. and he's just such an anomaly. Like, you never, he didn't test well coming out. He's just one of those guys that just is a football player.

Yeah, just one of the best guys to watch in the league. It's so funny because he only wear a size 13 shoes. He's not that big of a guy, but his hands are just, it's crazy. Jack Skellington hands. It's so straight. God, Jack Skellington hands. So that game from the Cardinals, just talking about it on a kind of broader level, what I was really impressed with is that they won that game without playing their best game.

they were disjointed on offense. A couple of their early red zone positions were kind of ugly. Think about some of the turnovers. The Fitzgerald interception, so fluky. The Kenyan, the Kenyan, both of their turnovers, the Kenya Drake fumble, he, it squirts out like seven yards ahead of him. And it would have been down the field. Like it would have been a good play. It was just like, yes.

Like you said, it's just a whatever. They had two of those fluky plays. They had a couple kind of drive altering penalties and they still won. And I think that that speaks to where they're at. right now. Obviously, this is a team that's playing much better defense than people seem to think, and their offense has really been lifted by Kyla Murray. So I want to ask you this, and I don't want this to seem too reactionary, because it was a huge game, they won in an exciting way. Do we think that Kyla Murray should be in the MVP conversation? And this is a two-prong question. Can he win or

should he be in the conversation to win the AP most valuable player reward, which is the award given out based on narratives and everything else. Or should he be in the conversation for one of the most valuable players in the NFL this season? Those are two different things. So pick which way you want to go with this. I would go with the second one saying that he's one the most valuable players. Yes.

But, you know, but yes. Because, I mean, he truly is that offense making it go. I mean, just how he turns okay plays into good plays and then good plays in the explosive plays. Like, what should be a five-yard gain is a touchdown. What should be a loss is a first down. Like he like things are blocked while he fully takes advantage of them. And then like, you know, that's the saying with like with run plays is on the runback,

you got to make that guy miss. He he makes the guy miss at the quarterback position. And usually it's a safety going like coming from the side because he's like, oh shit, quarterback's got the ball and I got to make a play on him. But he's, I mean, he's their whole team. I mean, they're getting better around him. Obviously, Deontry Hopkins is ridiculous. But Kirk's doing fine things.

and the backs do fine things. But he truly is that whole offense. And just is so an incredible talent. Like just a unique skill set that is maximized. It looks like because they run the ball well with him. They're throwing this deep stuff with him. That's just fun. And as far as like the AP MVP,

I still think Mahomes is the pace setter. But he should start getting some love, I think, as in the national discussion. We'll see what happens in how much ground he can make up in the award discussion. But if we're talking about the most valuable players in the league to their team, he's right there with anybody to me. Because like you said, he makes that offense go. He answers questions for them. When they do things wrong, he makes them right.

The decent plays become great plays. And I'm thinking of, again, in the red zone today, so much of their red zone approach just looked disjointed and kind of off and they didn't really know what they wanted to do until he was running the ball. When they changed the math down there near the goal line and he becomes that extra rusher, he's incredibly dangerous by virtue of his presence and the way it changes the numbers. But his ability to get around people, to skirt around people, to just make people miss. It's really, really impressive.

So they came into this game, fifth in the NFL and touchdowns per red zone trip. Largely, I think, because of what he can do down there. He's seventh in the NFL and EPA per play right now. I mean, there's no reason why he shouldn't be a part of this discussion based on the way he's playing and based on the success that the Cardinals are having. I mean, you could absolutely make an argument that he's as important to Arizona's offense as Russell Wilson is to the Seahawks offense, as Patrick Mahomes is to the Chiefs offense.

Even if Mahomes is the most valuable player in a vacuum because he's the best player, I still think to their approach, Murray is just as valuable to what Arizona is doing right now. So this game puts the Cardinals at 6 and 3 and leading the NFC West, which now has three teams at 6 and 3 log jammed at the top of the NFC West.

So I want to on first. pack just this very naughty tangled NFC playoff situation as we kind of get into the back half of the season here. If you're looking at this group, at least every team has at least two losses. The Saints are 7 and 2, the Packers are 7 and 2. Everyone else is coming up just behind that. Anybody can win this conference. Yeah. If you had to pick a team right now to win the NFC, who would it be? I'm picking the Rams. Wow. You've been on this for a while. I respect your commitment to this. I really do. I'm sticking with it too. They just

are on top of everything. They're in front of trends and in front of what this league does and they know what they are. Offensively, we know what McVeigh does. Everyone loves it, especially on Twitter and we kind of see all the play callings every week. But defensively, too, just the variables that they bring and the difference that they bring.

It's not overly complex. You know, they're running this match quarter stuff and then rotating the safeties down sometimes. And, and, the front they're doing, which that college influence front, what, what, you know, tight meant, there's some subtle differences where the stand-up linebacker is. That's like a 3-35 that's built in like a 3-4. It's kind of like a new way to combat RPO's and more spread offenses. Explain that. How is it a 3-35 that's built into a 3-4? So, okay, so at 3-3-5, you got the 3-down linemen who are going to play more of a head-up

technique on the front, and then they'll have a stand-up linebacker. So really it's 4-down. That jumps out to you. When you watch them line up, so they were doing it today, a special early. Donald was lined up a defensive end and then they had another guy, but those guys were head up over the tackles rather than outside of them. It's jarring when you look at it. You can notice it. But it's, it's almost like a shift. Like you, it's like shifted to a side. I don't know whether it's field or strength or how they do it. But what they're doing too with the head-up stuff, it's really hard for offense alignment to get their double teams because they're, they have no cloth to work with. So those guys are head up as opposed to a gap. If a guy's in a gap between like a guard

in the center, both guys can get a hand. on it real quick because it's right in between them. But as opposed to a guy head up, you're creating one-on-ones. And when you have guys like Aaron Donald getting one-on-ones every play and guys like Leonard Floyd who are stepping up. And that's not even including too is they're doing this quarter stuff where the safeties can drive down. The NFL has been more of a single high league the past eight, 10 years. And the quarters is becoming more and more common throughout. Safetys have to play the run and the past. They're putting a lot on. And it's also because of how many crossing routes are kind of taking over the league right now. And that's,

Honestly, it was interesting to watch today how much single high the Seahawks were playing, and they would walk Adams down, and he'd essentially be a third linebacker, and they're playing with Diggs as that single high safety. And the Rams are just killing them on crossing stuff behind it. And I'm sitting there like, have we not watched the other teams that have played the Rams and the Panthers and stuff this year? All that too high stuff where you're cutting those crossers is exactly how to slow them down, and the Seahawks just weren't doing it for the first half.

Yeah, and that's how the Rams were catching the Seahawks, because the Seahawks like to do that as well with Metcalf burning across or lock it burning across and so now well on top of that where they're able they have Ramsey Jalen Ramsey who's just a game breaker for him they because he can lock down D.K. Metcalf and then they can just with this too high and rotational stuff they can rotate to bracket everybody else cone everybody else and then Jalen is just big enough strong enough athletic enough has the football IQ to just take a guy like DK just completely out of the game. They popped up the one stat middle of the third quarter it was like he had 17 routes zero targets. Like Russell couldn't even target him at that point. And that's, that's, that's a game

breaker. That is, and they also can pressure. They had a really nice simulated pressure where they only brought four off the slot. They manipulated how the offensive line slid. So the right tackle got wasted. They had a free runner and they can do that or they can bring five because Jalen Ramsey can just lock down the number one guy. And that's what a guy like that lets you do. You can just do so much when you have these queens on the chessboard. They have two. They have to. They have Donald and they have Ramsey. And that's, it's really, when you watch them, it's so clear. And that's why I like watching their defense so much. One, it's, there's so much stuff that they're doing that other people aren't doing like you mentioned. I also think that they're really mixing up the fronts. There are so many

players we're just like, what the fuck are they doing? Like it's very hard. From play to play, there's a ton of variance in the way they line up. And it's as sure as an offensive line as a quarterback, it's hard to get a handle on. But they use Ramsey to dictate what they can do on the back end. And then they use Donald to dictate what they can do on the front end. they know how much attention he's going to take up. They know how he's going to cause the center to slide one way or the other. There was a one sack that they got that Floyd got where they were lined up in just a normal four-man front. Donald was lined up in the A-gap on the left side, but he crossed the guard's face.

So the guard went with him and the center was already going that way, and they dropped the defensive end out. So they have four guys blocking two, and then the right tackle was alone on a blitzing linebacker in Floyd. It's over. And this is getting a little bit naughty, but I think. think the main takeaway here is that I think right now better than any other team in the NFL, the Rams changed the math on offense and defense. And they do it with what Ramsey does. They do it with Donald does.

And they do it consistently on offense. The ways that they can get a blocker here, a blocker there, there was one play I pointed out on Twitter where Cup just did a fantastic job on this little Malcolm Brown cutback of crossing the defensive ends face and essentially scooping him. him as the backside blocker on a run play. They're so good at figuring out ways to do that. The ways that they can get to certain route concepts by certain motions, it's just, it's same stuff everybody else does. They just do it like in one step. They do it one step further.

And I think I was talking to Sean McVey about this a couple weeks ago for a story I did. And he was mentioning the math thing and changing the math. And you can just hear when he talks about stuff. This is a place where the question, well, why don't we do it this way? comes up all the time. And it really manifests when you watch them. And I think that that's why football people like you that are interested in where the game is going and these tiny little wrinkles, enjoy watching them play because they're at the forefront of this stuff. Yeah, the, it's so, it's so great what you just said too with the, why don't we do it this way? The play that I always freak out

about because it was an adjustment they started making when teams were actually, it was Fangio running too high stuff. That was the quarter stuff. And it's the six one. That was, we heard about 100,000 times. But what they countered with that was a wineback play. And how they did it. Usually it's a tight end that's doing this. I think I've talked about this before, but they did it with the receiver. They usually do it with cup coming across.

And that's just unique. The Saints have copied it a couple of, I think the Colts copied it once this year. So teams are starting to copy it, but it shows rather than just beat their head against the wall and go, no, this is our stuff. We're going to freaking do it, damn it. They were like, no, let's try something new. Like, hey, windback's a good counter for what we do. wow, we always go in 11 person.

How are we going to do that? Well, we got pretty good blocking receivers. So now they're wrapping cup around like a polar. And it's like, that's pretty cool stuff. Like that's what you said. It's like I love those little counters to the counters to the counters. Single high offenses start running overs. What a defense is do?

They start running quarters. And it's just I love seeing these trends and the Rams are in the forefront of both sides of the ball. So I agree with you that they're a complete team. They're good on offense. They're good on defense. They came into this game leading the NFL and EPA per play on defense. I assume that they'll stick right to that pace after this game because they played against a very good Seattle offense. Golf also had a good day today.

27 to 36 for 302 yards. I counted at least four drops in that game. His guys did not help him out a lot today. I thought he was very good. My question, though, when they have to play a dropback, when they're put into a situation they don't want to be in, like, for example, in the Miami game or some of the games we've seen in the McVeigh-Goff era, can they still keep up when they're put out of their comfort zone. And that's why, in my opinion,

if I were picking a team to win the conference right now, it would still be Tampa Bay. Because I think they have an offense, they have a defense, and I trust Brady to be that problem solver in a way that golf can't be in those high-leverage situations. And I thought, you know, we're just going to explain it away. It's like, oh, they beat the Panthers. They beat the shit out of the Panthers.

today. I really enjoyed it. Someone on Twitter, I wrote about Todd Bowles this week and how we should probably be giving him a second head coaching look based on the job he's done as a defensive coordinator. Guys have gotten their second job for much less, just ask the people in Dallas about what's going on right now. And somebody said to me, it's like, oh man, the buck's defense is playing great today after they gave up like 17 points.

The Buccaneers gave up 35 yards of offense in the second half today against the team that came into this game ranked eighth in offensive DVO. they stumped a really good Carolina team and they looked really good on offense as well. And Brady, with that collection of weapons, I think they're really dangerous. And the fact that there are no complete teams and no truly dominant teams in that conference,

I still just think when you consider the coaching they have on both sides of the ball and the pure talent they have on both sides of the ball, Gronk was getting involved. He had a 44-yard catch today. Antonio Brown was doing some stuff. Mike Evans played well today. Chris Godwin, just think about all the names.

And I don't want to seem like I'm getting too caught up in that because I think that I'm guilty of just, you know, deferring to the talent too often. But I still think that they have top to bottom plus the way they put their guys in the right positions. I still think they're just as dangerous to the same. And I think the Saints are probably right there too. But now we have a pretty big question about the Saints. So a couple more things I want to hit about the NFC here. How far could the Saints possibly go if Drew Breeze is seriously or? hurt. James Simpson comes in today.

By everything they've said, Bree said it was a cumulative thing that had to do with the rib injury he's dealing with. He told Sean Payton he couldn't play in the second half. We'll see what the diagnosis is. We'll see what the prognosis is. My understanding is he's getting an MRI on Monday. If Breeze is done for extended time, how far do you think the Saints can go with James at the hell? I'll say one thing. I'm glad their defense has started stepping up. But that's part of this. That's part of this, though. I still think. I still think, think they are a top tier team. I think, yeah, they take maybe a half step back of what they do. It's just going to be, it's just going to be a fascinating, like, thought experiment, not even

thought experiment, it's going to actually happen, it looks like, at least with James back there. Because he's just a total wild card. What was crazy to rewatching it, even afterwards after they played, was seeing James's footwork become so, like, almost drewries like. It was just so much quicker and tighter and more consistent. So that was kind of like tantalizing to see. But then also, you see James also doing his thing where he hits an intermediate defender and he took two sacks and only like 10 dropbacks. So it's like, okay, so that's going to be the difference. Well, Breeze is hit, they win with Breeze by Breeze. They run the ball and Breeze is super efficient with where he's going with the ball and his precision. Precision is just they

slice you up, knife you down. And it's just like, it just beat you with a thousand slant routes and choice routes. You know, that's what they're doing. With James, it's going to be almost more of that Sean Peyton of old where it's, they were running these over routes that we were just talking about where it's posting overs. It's Y-Cross. That's the stuff that Sean Payton used to do with Breece. They would just get into 12 personnel, 21 personnel run play action.

It would just be an over in a post, just old school, I think just cross-country and stuff. They might start doing that more with James because now they can attack down the field. It's just going to be interesting. I'm really curious to see how this goes. It's a mesh of styles. It's interesting to talk about with QB development, especially if we see James starting to do some things. But I still think they're a good team. I think their defense is improving. I think they're still one of those top tier teams and a contender. I think James is going to just be a little

bit of a wild card. So a little bit of TBD too. I still think they need Breeze to even be close to the team they can be because I think that what we saw from them last week is the best version of them. And that requires just way too much like we said precision. And Breeze just being surgical in the way that he plays the position in a way that James can't. Even if Jamis could make them theoretically more explosive, I still don't think their personnel aligns with that sort of approach offensively. I still think the types of guys they have just fits better with the way that Breeze plays. Maybe I've just seen it with Breeze for too long,

and I think Teddy Bridgewater kind of did his best Breeze impression last year when he was in the game. So maybe that's just a lack of imagination for me, but I still feel like they need Breeze to eventually hit their ceiling. and I still don't know if that ceiling is as high as what the Bucks can bring. So talking about the Rams, impressive win today, and I think that coming out of that game, as much as I was impressed with the Rams, I have some pretty big questions about the Seahawks because obviously their defense is a concern. And if their defense is going to continue to be a concern and their offense isn't putting up points to keep pace with all these teams,

have we run out of kind of Russell Wilson fairy dust here in Seattle to the point where the Seahawks just aren't the team we thought they were over the first month and a half of the season. Yeah, their defense is just very not good. Like last year they were awful against like naked, you know, with bootlegs and they never fixed it. And so that was pretty worrisome because it's like that's pretty, not something easy fix, but it's manageable to fix if it's happening throughout the whole year. And we're just seeing that more now, but it's just the entire defense, especially against the past.

Russ has to be perfect. Like he has to be, like he's on pace for what, 50 something touchdowns. And it's not like the usual 50 touchdowns high stack guys that get there. Like where Mahomes or, you know, Brady, Peyton Manning, they're just shredding the league on these teams that are just juggernauts. This is more of the truly like shootout, Drew Brees style offenses of, you know, the mid-2010s, you know, where they're winning all these. I mean, they're a little better version. but that's what's going to have to be. Russ just has to be Superman for them,

but it's like you said, when you play a team like the Rams that are just on your stuff and can lock down DK. Metcalf and Russ can't get into his quasi-scramble drill plays. It's a little worrisome. They're still a good team. I think that offense is still a plus unit.

But yeah, this was a kick in the teeth for him. It kind of reminds me, you mentioned Breeze. It's almost like those teams with the garbage defenses that those Saints teams had, like in 2012 where I think they were 31st in scoring.

And in that season, Breeze threw 43 touchdown passes, but he also threw 19 interceptions. Because it feels like he has to do so much. And that's kind of what it feels like for Seattle right now. And the two picks that he threw, the first one in the back corner of the end zone on the throw to Disley, do you see that play? It was just kind of a weird decision by him because they had it.

And I think Matt Bowen pointed this out. They had Olson clearing it out. And they had Disley coming back. around down the sideline. So the Rams were in quarters coverage and they had that corner. But Wilson, for whatever reason, waited on it and then stepped up even further and threw it super late so the corner could fall off of it. And then the one he threw on the right side line, that's just a great play by the same corner.

But it still is a throw he probably doesn't make if he doesn't feel like I need to be Superman, I need to keep making these plays. And it does seem like we're drifting into that territory. And listen, their offensive line looked like. lot worse than it has all year today because a lot of the stuff the Rams are doing. D.K. McHaff is not going to have to play against Jalen Ramsey every single week. We're going to see better versions of the Seattle offense, but these are the types of teams they're going to have to play when things start tightening up here down the stretch when we get

into the playoffs. And if this offense can't carry them, I think we have plenty of evidence that shows us that the defense will not be able to withstand these sort of big games that they're going to be in when it really matters. It's just funny. It's like just like just like, because continuation of like what we see. And it's like every week of like Seahawks, they're going to get better on defense. They're going to get better on defense. It's not happening. Yeah. And it just doesn't happen. It's like, nope, that's that's what we saw last week. Well, I mean, you see that. It's like

Dallas, remember Dallas was a nightmare early in the season. And defense typically tends to come back to Earth a little bit and guys teams figure it out. They do not seem to be figuring it out. And I'm not sure that they're going to here because Adams is back. Dunlap's in the lineup now. If our argument was going to be, they need to get healthier, they've gotten healthier and the results haven't gotten any better. Yeah. All right. Let's get to who won the week.

Just win, baby. My first candidate here, a man that I would say we've besmirched him on the show this year, but I think that we've been very measured in our compliments because of what he's been asked to do. And that is Ben Rathesberger. Really nice day for Ben Rathesberger today. I know it's the Bengals defense, but I still thought he played extremely well. 27 of 46, 333, 4 touchdowns, and asked to do more than he had been for a lot of this season

when you consider the way they were spreading the ball around, what they were doing. When you watched Rathusberger today, did you see more from him than you have at other points this season? Yeah, like the downfield stuff was, it's been before it's sprinkled in, but it was like once a game. And this game, it was like, no, we're going to punish you. And it seemed like it took all of his energy and might to get the ball down the Have you noticed that like every throw now is just like a dart throw? Like it just looks like he's just like He just like darts everything it could look it could be a slant route could be a screen or it could be a 20 yard go ball like back shoulder It's all going down. Yep. Yeah. It's just it all dies at the end. Yeah. Yeah. I think he just raises his arm up to go a little further or down like a mortar like that's how he's aiming his stuff. But but it's it's promising to see. It's so true. It's so true. Even like even like the slants near the goal line somehow.

off near the end and like hit a guy on the hip it's working i don't mean to like shit on ben ralphusberger but it definitely does look like that right now he threw his slant route and he threw it out so early that the receiver wasn't even looking on the slant which was like so hard to do because he threw it so early but it wasn't like it like the throw got there way out in front or anything because he let him too much he threw it so early and it still was like behind the receiver because the ball is just dipping down on it it works it works it went for a touchdown so yeah i was going to say he also had some of those funnily enough like rivers you know his draft classmate those oh no no no okay okay okay yeah good job good job big man good job and there was a lot of that today and i thought he did a

really nice job today against the blitz several times today they were the one of the touchdown in the back corner of the end zone there was guy hanging on him he drifted out of the pocket in smart ways away from pressure a couple times today and i thought he did a very good job playmaking in some of those high leverage situations. Third down, red zone. So I looked up the numbers today because I was curious. I was like, I wonder how good he's been in the red zone this year. Because just anecdotally, it seems like he's had a lot of pinpoint throws.

They've been really good inside the 20. Ben Rothsberger leads the NFL and EPA in the red zone among quarterbacks this season. And it shows up. And today was another perfect example. I mean, they've run this concept a lot where they have like a little sit in the middle of the field to hold the safety and just a little end breaker from number one on the outside. And they've hit it to Johnson a couple of times for touchdowns. They did again today.

He's really quick and precise with that throw and has been. But those are the things we've seen all season. The two things that jumped out to me today that we hadn't as much were the playmaking when we talked about and pushing the ball downfield a little bit. I mean, the one he hit to Johnson down the left sideline, it's a perfect ball. Beautiful. It's a gorgeous throw in traffic with somebody in his face and he's making it happen. So I thought he played great today.

And then the other kind of deep shot they had down the field was that fake screen where Juju released. It was like the exact same play of the same score had touched out on last week. So if you want to manufacture deep shots for aging quarterback, just run fake shield screens and then have a guy released down the field. The one benefit of the receiver screens that everyone hates is that you get to run that play. Yes. You get to run the pump play off of it. Okay, there's the benefit of it. He also threw like a beautiful.

We make fun of his arm straight though, but he made like threw a beautiful field out to Claypool. third and 10. Yep. But it's so accurate and early that it's like, he gets it done. Yeah, he's, he's doing good shit right now. So the Ben Rathesberger patented pump fake, the one touchdown he had to Claypool, he pumped it so hard to the flat that the linebacker fell over. Foll over, right?

He was trying to break on it, right? Yes. And there was a lot of that kind of vintage Ben Rathesberger stuff that was the pump fake making plays. The little floater he had to Ebron that was like he's popped it over a guy and just started laughing. My favorite play of the day, though, was easily the reverse to Claypool. And Rathusberger was like, all right, maybe I'll block somebody.

Maybe I'll block somebody. He's like, nah, I'm good. And then he taps out. Yeah. He was really thinking about it. But the prudent veteran that he is pulled back, made the right choice, live to play another day. I love that clip because it just proved that my, I said earlier the season that Big Ben runs like somebody that's hurrying across the crosswalk when the, lights starts flashing and he's just like, oh, like that's how he runs. And that play was just

like the perfect example that was like, Exhibit A right here, especially the tap out right at the end. Like, it's just perfect. I mean, it's a 3610 win against a not good Bengals team, but another convincing win. And the Steelers are undefeated. I mean, at a certain point, they keep rolling and their defense played great today. I mean, they drove Burrow nuts. And that's going to happen. He's a rookie quarterback playing against a really good defense. But they ate his lunch today. And they just continue to do it. Their defense is playing fantastic and their offense is doing just enough. And when Rathsberger is averaging 9.37 air yards per attempt, they look like they can do some

stuff. And if they keep winning, we're obligated to talk about them on this podcast. Every single week, it's going to happen all the time. All right. Our other candidate here for who won the week, another team that we've talked a decent amount, talked about a decent amount, but got to keep doing it at this rate. The Dolphins, man, 29, 21, they beat up the Chargers offense. all the Justin Herbert hype train that I was very ready to continue driving based on how good he looked

he looked terrified today, not surprising. I mean, this is a defense that makes quarterbacks look uncomfortable. They've done it to guys who've been in a league for several years. Not shocking that they do it to a guy starting, I think, his eighth game of the season or eighth game of his career. So, I mean, at a certain point, man,

the Dolphins look like they might be a real team in the AFC. They're six and three now. They absolutely are in contention to win that, division. They're looking like they're very likely going to get a playoff spot. I mean, is there anything else outside of the defense that's really jumped out to you about the way they've been able to do this? Well, I just want to mention one thing with the defense, too, is something I noticed today

and they've done it, but they're on the one double coverage that Belichick loves. And, you know, Flores is like probably been the best coach ever to kind of copy Belichick's scheme of any of his assistants. The one double being the, you're double the number one receiver on the other team. Correct. They designate the number. So in this example, like it was Keenan Allen. So there was one double 13.

And they did it a couple times. And Herbert has done a good job of finding his intent and having a plan going like, hey, I know this is where I'm supposed to go with this on this play. And he was getting caught. And it was leading to him drifting back in the pocket and not having anywhere to go with the ball like he has been where he drifts back. And he still had a couple of those throws today, good and bad. But it was causing double clutch. It was causing pressure.

And then they were mixing in their cover zeros. And then the fake cover zero stuff. They love to do the drop, drop the hot spots. Yeah, they really threw Herbert for a loop today. And I know we were on that bandwagon a little bit, but I'm still on to Herbert. That was just a tough. That just speaks to how good the Tulfans are doing on defense. They have a plan.

And then offensively, he's doing, he looks good. I mean, he, God, he's just like, he, speaking of always having a plan like Herbert did, it's just refreshing to see these rookies not just look like spas attacks, that they are just like every play. They look calm. even when stuff's not going right. They had the bad fumble on a snap or where Tua, I think the center got pushed back into Tua and stepped on his foot and the ball fumbled.

Chargers are returning it. Tua hawked it down, though. It was pretty impressive. So on that play, I don't know if this is actually what happened. And I think it might have happened in the Browns game too. It looked like Kilgora was shotgun snapping the ball with Tua under center. He did. I mean, there was, because it didn't go up at all.

It went straight back. It trickle back. So that I would make fun of somebody for doing that. I did the opposite multiple times when I played center in high school. Oh, how'd that feel? It felt very terrible. People would always give me shit about it. They're like, you can't feel a guy's hands in your crotch?

You don't know he's not there? And I was like, I'm just locked in, man. I don't know. So I tweeted about it today and my high school football coach liked the tweet, which just made me feel awful because he clearly remembers that it happened multiple times. I've wound up behind the guard before. So I've got, we all have our embarrassing moments. And then about midway through, I went easy, easy.

And then I shifted over to the center. So Herbert goes 20 of 32 for 187 in a pick today. Again, looking uncomfortable, too, didn't have the best game. That throw to Jefferson should have been intercepted, the one that eventually got to Shaheen behind him. The one he threw the same drive through to the back corner of the end zone into traffic. I think you tweeted about this. He looked, there was a couple questionable decisions on that drive.

But that's normal. I mean, he's a rookie quarterback playing against a solid past defense that the Chargers have. And I think that this was an ugly win for the Dolphins, but they're the type of team right now that's capable of winning ugly. And I think that's why I think there's a team to be reckoned with because their defense is playing so well. You just need to do enough. And I think that they're putting him in positions to do enough right now,

offensively. I think that they're running the exact types of things where he's going to be able to look good. His first completion of the day today, they ran a little boot concept and he instead of hitting that little flat controller, he waited and hit the second level throw down the left side line. I was like, ooh, that one looks very cool because that's that lefty rollout thing, but two, really mature decision. And you see that from him a decent amount. And the other thing with them that I feel like people we should be talking about, because I think it's a real thing. They seem to be getting one or two big special teams plays a game at this rate. Yes. And I looked it up coming into this game, number two in special teams DVOA. And when you think about how well coached they are on offense and defense, it's not surprising

at all that the guy who has done the best job of following in Belichick's footsteps as a head coach also has done a great job of building great special teams units because they are consistently adding value in that area of the game. Yeah, and they're getting great plays out of like Jeremiah Grant, you know, and like, you know, he's, he's stepping off. Andrew Van Dinkle is making a play once a game, man. Go badgers. Go badgers. Yeah, I tweeted that the, uh, the outside linebackers for the dolphins sound like two centerbacks for the Netherlands soccer team because just the vans going on.

That's niche. Uh, so, but you know, what's, what's cool with Tua is he's better, I wouldn't say explosive, but he's a better athlete than I kind of. of realize. He's a functional, yeah. Like he's just, he's just a good athlete. Everything looks so smooth. And when they wear the all whites, too, like he just looks like a clean athlete thrown the ball.

Fantastic jersey matchup in this game. Just all-time jersey matchup. I need more teams to understand what they look good wearing and to lean into it the way that these two teams are. Oh, I know. I mean, it just just classic looks too. Like, right? Like those look timeless.

They could have been worn in the 70s, 2020. Yeah, I'm not going to get into like stylistic choices. I'm wearing a freaking Minnesota Timberwolves gray shirt right now. But yeah, it's, I really like the dolphins. It's, it's, I'm so glad you brought up the special teams because that just speaks to what Flores is doing down there. They have a plan. And also what's cool is they have those two picks next year, the two first rounders. They can win.

They don't have to worry about like, oh, well, we were trying to tank and get another top 10 pick. It's like, no, Texans are doing that for us. Yeah, keep letting the Texas loose. Yeah. We'll get that top seven pick from the Texans. and we can get our pick in the 20s and we just keep riding this. All right, so I'm glad that you mentioned that

because it's time for would you rather. All right, so here we go. You have to pick the team that will win the most AFC East titles in the next five years, the team that will own that division. Would you rather have the Patriots, the Bills, or the Dolphins?

I'm just going to continue what we're talking about. I'm going to go with the Dolphins. Wow. Okay. Yeah. It's state your case. Yeah. So this is close because I do like what the bills are doing. I think the bills are more of a veterinary kind of team.

I mean, even given with Josh Allen, some of the pieces they have. With the dolphins, they have those young pieces for those next five years, not just this year or next year, but two, three, four or five years down the road. And they have a plan on defense that's coming to fruition, but before our eyes. Like we're seeing this past defense excel and stand out and be something that everyone in the week was watching and going like, holy crap, that's a really good job. And it looks like they got their guy at QB. It's only a couple starts in, but it looks like they have their future at least a good solid starter of what Tua can be. And if they just need to keep surrounded them, I know Presto Williams is injured, but he's a fun player.

Gelsicki, you know, they went youth at O-Line and it's going to pay dividends because even if some of those guys end up backups, some are starters, you know, just getting live bullet reps at a young age is so good at that position like O-Line. They have a plan of success everywhere they go. They just look like they know what they're doing as far as drafting. And I trust Flores as a team manager, a personality manager, a game manager. They could have had a bad situation with Rosen. This year, they could have a bad situation with Fitzpatrick. Last year, they were called, you know, the tank commander. They're doing all this.

No, they were fighting for them. Every week, it was competitive last week, even with a pretty garbage roster. And this year, now they're getting pieces in a plan and they're getting what they want. They're investing in premium positions and they're hitting on something. of them. So I think it's the dolphins. I just think they have this nice plan that's coming to fruition maybe a year earlier than

anyone expected, including myself. I'm torn because when you look at what the Patriots have done forever, the fact that they're going to have a bunch of cap space next season, they're kind of a blank slate in a way that a lot of people aren't really considering with all of the space they have with the different directions they could

go. And they have a lot of good young pieces on that team. The offensive line will be intact. They stove some pieces in the secondary. They can bring back all stuff to consider. The bills have been super well managed under Brandon Bean and Sean McDermott. They've done a fantastic job building this team. I really like the approach that they've taken when it comes to free agency. And with just their resources in general, they've done a really good job spreading out free agency money to address a bunch of needs so they can go after the best player available in the draft.

This year, the best player available in their minds happened to be Stefan Diggs with that pick. And I've really enjoyed the way that they've done that. And I think they've built a really fantastic roster, and they've done everything they can to accentuate the development of Josh Allen. All of that said, I am also picking the Dolphins. And it's, you mentioned it. They have those extra first round picks. They have, you know, the pick could be in the top five plus their own.

You have some space next year to work with. They have $154 million on the cap next season. And with a couple cuts, they get to $25 million in cap space easily. and that's even with the capian at 176. The bills are tapped out. I mean, this is a team that really has kind of pushed it now. This is what we will come to expect from the bills. They are fully formed as the team they want to be.

And think about it two steps further than that. Josh Allen's going to have to get paid here relatively soon. And the way that he's playing right now, he's going to get paid. And there are no more middle class quarterback contracts. His agent is going to come in, slide the Jared Koff contract across the table, and say, I think we're done here and walk out the door. I don't know what's going to happen with Brian Daible. The way that he's coaching right now, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he gets some looks

this offseason. You think about his background, he's worked with Belichick, he's worked with Sabin, he's been around for a long time, and he's consistently putting his guys in the right positions to succeed on offense. I would definitely take a long look at him if I were trying to hire a head coach. So Josh Allen could potentially lose the guy who's really turned him into this version of himself. this team is short on resources

because they've really pushed all their chips into the middle of the table. The bills have a 68-year-old offensive coordinator that probably isn't going anywhere and is doing a pretty good job with his young quarterback. They have a young roster that I think is only going to get better from here

and they have the resources to make sure that it only gets better from here. In my opinion, they're the team to reckon with and you think about how well coached they've looked over these first year and a half with Flores. Everything I'd want to see from them they've done.

I think the bills are going to be a good team for the next couple years. But if I'm thinking long term right now, the team that could own this division in a post-Tom Brady world, I'm picking the Dolphins. They have a short-term plan, a mid-term plan. They have a long-term plan. You can see it. Not like I'm just acting like that's some sophisticated thing I'm pointing out. It's obvious. That's how good the plan is.

It's because you can see it unfolding in front of our eyes. And when you look at websites like Tankathon when they have the Texas pick in the top five. I mean, imagine this team with Jamar Chase on it, something like that. I mean, I don't know if they'll say we need a pass catcher. I think they're smarter people than me running that team and they probably won't pick a pass catcher in the top five the same way you wouldn't pick one in the top five. But still, it's those types of things where this is the first step in what they can be considering the sort of resources they have.

They're not tapped out in a way that the bills might. This bill's roster might be the best bills roster. we see in the Josh Allen era because he's not making very much money. That's not going to be the case. When we have four more years after this of two on his rookie contract plus the amount of resources that they have accumulated, whether it's on the cap or in the draft. All right. It's time for Vince to ask the question here.

All right. Each week we have Vince Lombardi asked what the hell is going on. And there are a couple really good candidates. And we're going to start with your boy. What the hell is going to? on with Drew Locke, man. Drew lock on his receivers. That's just the easy pun.

I mean, yeah, I know. I'm going for the low-hanging fruit. I love how he turns you into a 68-year-old man. When you talk and think about Drew Locke, do you instantly have a bunch of were those originals in your pocket? Do they just appear out of thin air? I just feel like the Moneyball Scouts, just like sitting there. Like, who's, oh.

Here, honestly, though, honestly, though, I come, I sort of am the same way. for whatever reason you watch him play and it's like all right I want him to be good he's a Mizzou guy he's fun seems like a good dude but you watch it and it's like

I just don't think this guy has it man so the Broncos get stomped today by a score of 37 to 12 against the Raiders so he goes 23 of 47 for 257 and four interceptions and he should have lost the fumble inside his own five

it's not as if this happened against the Steelers or the Bucks or any of those teams It happened against one of objectively the worst defenses in the NFL. Sometimes when you throw four interceptions in a game, you go back and think, oh, it wasn't that bad. Yeah, you have a tip ball here, tip ball there. You go back and watch those four interceptions. One, it was lucky to be four.

Yeah. Two, he earned all four of them. It's hard to stack up which decision was worse than the last one because every single one of them seemed equally bad. I mean, the one to Jeff Heath in the end zone, I'm still trying to figure out. out what he was thinking when he threw that ball. Maybe he thinks that Judy was going to cross his face. Heath was already breaking on the ball when he threw it. Everything about that setup tells you not to throw that ball.

But as you say, Drew locked on his receivers. He's throwing exactly where he's going to. Come hell or high water, defenders about to say, hell or high water, he is going worth what pre-snap, what he thinks. You even can tell on that second pick to, or that pick to Judy, or Heath, but he was thrown to Judy. he steps all the way in the bucket all the way to the left and he's totally opened up

because he doesn't even trust it. He's just like, I know I shouldn't be throwing this, but screw it and he tries to whip it in there and they have a plan for it on the place. So I know it's not poor design. They have the glancer out and then they have a little checkdown underneath and on those types of routes where it's just the ex receiver and a runnerback, it's one to two

and that's your progression. Nope. Locked in. He was getting that and it was bad. It was right before the half. I mean, he just can't help him. There's a mess of people. He keeps throwing into like these double and triple coverage situations. And he's getting his guys killed. So it reminds me of this game I played like in high school,

the video game was called like Need for Speed, something or another. And you get more points based on the crashes you make. And that's what like him on these interceptions kind of is like. It's just like he wants more style points, either on the touchdowns or on the interceptions. He just wants carnage. Which honestly,

I respect him for it. It's an admirable way to play quarterback. And I really do get it. But I wouldn't want him to be the quarterback of my football team if that's the approach that we're taking. So, Drewlock came into this game, I believe, second to last among quarterbacks and EPA per play. Sam Donald is the king currently. But Sam Donald is in as bad of a circumstance as you could possibly be in for a quarterback. After this game, I assume Drewlock may take the negative EPA per play crown from Sam Donald.

He definitely was dead last today, I think, among quarterback. So, I mean, he's within striking distance, we'll say. Yeah. I think those two names are interesting to kind of mention together. Because if you're the Broncos and you see what you've gotten from Drewock this year, even with Corton Suttoned out, even with some of the other injuries they've dealt with, even with the injuries that he's dealt with, offensive line has been solid but not great. First year in a new system, all that.

I still don't think if you're the Broncos, you can look at what you've gotten from Drewock and say, I want to sign up for another year of this. It's not like you draft a Drewlock in the top 10. You didn't trade a bunch of future picks to go up and get Drewlock in the first round. You traded back up in the second round, but you had already accumulated picks from the Devin Bush trade, whatever. It's not the sort of investment teams often make in their future franchise quarterback. There is nothing that says you cannot move on from Drew Locke after this season. If you're the Broncos and you have built this group of past catchers that I think could end up being pretty good,

Judy looks like he's really coming on. You get Sutton back next year. Fan, Alberto, O, offensive line that looks a lot better with Garrett Bowles is kind of a sentence here. I think you need to do everything you can to get the most out of that group, and I don't think the answer is Drew Locke.

So in your mind, are the Broncos the type of team that should maybe consider trading a second-round pick for Sam Donald, should maybe consider trying to go into the veteran quarterback market if a guy like Matthew Stafford or someone else comes on the market?

Do you think we've already seen enough from Locke to say this is not going to work. I think what's good for them, that's silver line to all this, is any path they want to go down on the quarterback other than Drew Locke is viable. Like you said, the veteran, the trade for Sam Darnold.

That's a risk reward, but if you really trust your pro scouting and really what you think you can get out of them, this roster, I was on a show before the season on a podcast, and when talking about Drew Locke and the Broncos offense, I said they really took every excuse out of the book for him. You know, they just put around him. Now, you know, Sutton's out.

I get that. But they still have some nice pieces around him. And he just isn't getting it done. And it's not like the offense aligned is. We said it's okay. It's above average. They got a really good coach there. So that's taking some excuses away from there too.

So yeah, I think it's whatever avenue they decide to go down, whether it's finding a free agent, uh, free agent veteran trading for somebody or drafting somebody because this is a QB rich draft. it's they could go down any path. So I guess that is a silver lining for what they have. But yeah, I'm totally out on lock.

I have never really had a foot into it. But it's just like the election. I've seen enough. Yeah. I mean, at a certain point, there's no reason to throw good money after bad. I mean, you don't have to commit to this. And I think we've seen teams really get rewarded by their willingness to say,

this is not the right answer. We have to find the right answer. I mean, imagine if the Cardinals, it stuck with Josh Rosen. There's nothing that forces you to do it. I think understanding you made a mistake and trying to correct for that mistake, especially when you put a support system in place that you think can buoy the right quarterback, I think your number one priority should be finding the guy to get the most out of the supporting cast that you've tried to build around him.

So let's get to another one here. What the hell is going on with the Philadelphia Eagles? I said this today. I can't remember who it was. I can't remember who I said it too. But they mentioned that the Eagles are just terribly boring to watch and pretty awful. And when I watch the Bears offense, I can't imagine that there are worse offenses than the Bears. And statistically, there are.

And the Eagles are one of them. And then you go and you watch the Eagles. It's like, oh, yep, that makes sense. They're definitely worse. And when I watch them play, you know, I'm curious what you think are kind of the issues and how you diagnose them. But remember that episode of Parks and Rack? where they have that contest among all the departments to see who can make the best mural.

Yeah. And everybody in the Parks and Rec team contributes whatever their hand is to the mural. Like April has that human hamster wheel. And Tom pays the art student for the shapes. Yeah. And the final product, Mark says, that's a camel. You made a camel. The Eagles offense is a camel.

Because it's all of these things that they've tried to put together, like they brought in Riscangarello. and they brought in this and they brought in that. And you see some of it. You see like the under center play action flood stuff. It was actually the best stuff they did today on their one solid drive. But then you have the RPO stuff. And it's all these different influences come together.

And when you look at it, it's a mess. It makes no sense. There's no cohesion to it. They're just trying to see what sticks. It reminds me a lot of what another Andy Reid disciple is doing in Chicago right now. So when you watch their offense, Do you think that it's, do you think it's that simple? Do you think it's just too many things coming together in a way that doesn't work?

What do you think is holding them back right now? Yeah, it's, it's Frankenstein's monster. That's what it looks like just with all the stuff they're trying to do. And that was one of my worries. I have mentioned it offhand is that with that staff and all the chefs they have in the kitchen, you know, that's maybe a little too many voices in Wentz's ear. I don't know how their power structure is. so I don't know who actually might have it.

But that's where that convoluted mess comes from. We praise the Shanhands and the McVeves of the world and the Sean Payton's of the world because it looks like all their stuff has a purpose. A purpose, yes. And a, hey, I'm saying not this to do this. And also, you watch this. And it's just that was actually one of the, when Andy Reid sometimes would have a blemish game or, you know, they weren't scoring, you know, prima homes.

If anyone can imagine that, you know, it was only a couple years ago. people say, oh, it's a Mickey Mouse offense. Oh, it's a gimmick offense. He just takes away seats from college. Like that was, you know, oh, he's just, it's all gimmicky. It's all gimmicky. But, you know, it had a purpose. Like most of the stuff he did, Andy Reid has always done has a purpose.

Now they've really honed into what he likes and what they like. These guys kind of got that bad side from Andy Reid, the Nagies of the world and what the Eagles guys are doing is that they kind of got that Mickey Mouse gimmicky stuff, but then they don't have the substance behind it. That's what it seems like to me. They're like, hey, this is a cool play. Put it on the board. Hey, this is a cool play.

Put it on the board. And then again, to Sunday. And they're like, hey, geez, all these, like, there's 20 new plays that we put in this week. these are all pretty awesome. And the guys are just playing slow. Wentz is looking all over the place. He's not comfortable with what they're running, even if it's stuff he's run before

because just maybe the looks are different. Even stuff like exchanges are hard for them right now. Like just QB Center exchanges with veterans, with pro bowl guys. And he's played with for years. Years. And they're both like trustworthy guys. I mean, well, Wentz says his mistakes and everything. But Kelsey, I mean, and then they're dropping shock, or Wentz's dropping shotgun snaps.

And then they're running the hell out of the ball. I will give them credit with that. They did run the ball today. Yeah. It's a convoluted mess, though. It really is. And it looks like it. It's not just like, oh, I watched it all 22 and this is what I'm seeing.

It's like, you watch that on Sunday. It looks hard. They make offense look hard. And yeah, like you said, it probably feels at home for any Bears fans watching it, too, especially with some of the copycat stuff they try to do. Like, Eagles are trying to do that. They're doing the one by three where, you know, with the chiefs, do it, Kelsey at the X.

One by three, tight end being the strong guy with the trips on the other side. They try to do it. But then they don't do it in the right way. They attach the tight end. They don't get the space like the ISOs that I know everyone's not Travis Kelsey. But it's like, okay, it's like an evil funhouse mirror version of the chief's offense. And Chicago has a version and Philly as a version. I love how we're talking about the egos.

We still manage to just get some side punches on the Bears off. But I do think it's worth mentioning because I do think a lot of the issues are the same. and I think they come from the same place. So when the Eagles were rattling off those wins, rattling off, when they won a couple games, when they beat the Niners, when they beat the Giants, when they beat the Cowboys, you think, all right, this is a garbage division,

but it still looks like they're going to win. The Eagles are 3-5-1 now. The Eagles' next five games are as follows. At the Browns, could absolutely lose that game. Browns are a better team in the Eagles, even if the Browns aren't very good. The Seahawks. Still much better than the Eagles,

despite their Reims. recent struggles. At the Packers. Okay. Saints. Cardinals. It is not a stretch at all to say we could be sitting at 3.10 and 1 for Philadelphia here in a month.

The Giants, next five games, the Giants are three and seven. They have equaled the Eagles and the Wincom. Also get the Seahawks, the Ravens, and the Cardinals. The Ravens will be taught. I know we didn't talk about it at all about that game. we'll be talking a lot about the Ravens and the Raiders on Wednesday's show. So we'll be getting to those teams. I do not want to seem like we're just blazing by them.

But Seahawks, Ravens, Cardinals. Tough games, they probably could lose those. They also get the Bengals in that stretch, though, and the Browns. They absolutely, I'm talking about the Eagles here, could lose control of this division to a Giants team that I think is actually okay on defense. Yeah. The moves they made this off season, a lot of people were, hesitant and skeptical about them.

Understandably so. The Bradbury contract, the Martinez contract, both of those guys are playing out of their minds. Bradbury is top tier. Like, I thought he was very good or good, but he is like top three in the week right now. He is playing out of his mind. They ran a play today.

It was a third down. And they tried to run a little pick play on the right side. And he was on the, he was the outside corner working through the pick from number one inside. just went right over it and just managed to knock the ball away on the third down. It didn't even look like the guy was there. I was like, Jesus. This guy is like, he's been doing that all season.

And I think, you know, Martinez, there was a story that we did at the athletic that I thought was really interesting about how he was allergic to eggs. And he took out dairy from his diet and he just feels like a ton better. He's not feeling lethargic anymore, everything else. But I talked to Blake a couple weeks ago for something I was working on. And he just feels like his role was a lot more distilled in this defense. He had a lot of really nice things to say about Patrick Graham. I think they're doing a lot of interesting things defensively. The Giants are.

Especially third down. Yeah. Yes. And I think, I mean, they're, I think he's doing a good job of taking some really good lessons from that Belichick background in implementing it here. I think their defense is much better coached than their offenses. So if the Giants are feisty and they're sticking around here and the Eagles end up not winning this division, we shouldn't judge the eagle season based on whether they win or lose the NFC East. But if they do end up losing this division, what happens? Right.

I mean, I just, it feels like you can't move on from this staff three years removed from them winning a Super Bowl, but we've run out of excuses. Even this week, it's like, all right, well, you know, they've been banged up all year. You have Goddard back now. You have Jason Peters and Lane Johnson back. You have the receiving quarterback to a certain degree. Miles Sanders played today. And they still can't beat the Giants. So I just don't know where you go from here if you're this Eagles team.

And that's just a crazy thing to be saying. Three years removed from them being the best team in the NFL, I think by a decent margin. And competitive the years after. And on top of that, they're about just being a nightmare in terms of injuries, losing everybody. And that's what was scary. It was that's what you thought. It was like, well, that's them with injuries. Imagine them when they're healthy and they're restocking the cupboard.

And they're entering the seventh circle of cap hell. after this season like that they have that come down the line too pushing all your chips in and they've been yeah paying on the credit card for a while now it's it's it's pretty ugly but yeah it's you still i don't know i really don't know i can't i can't i can't even go on a rant to defend it right now because like like you said they're getting healthy they're getting the guys back they have the same guy like same staffing guys defense coordinator offensive play callers same minds in the building for the most part you know they had a little bit of a brain rain, but it's not, you know, was John D. Philippo, you know, the guy there.

Well, I think Frank Reich is going to be the question. Frank Reich is how much was losing Frank Reich and how much of an issue was that? He's done a fantastic job. Awesome job. Since leaving. But the problem is, and I don't want to compare this too much to the bear situation, but it's not dissimilar where they've made the changes on the offensive staff. They tried to do some reshuffling over there and some reorganizing to say, can we jumpstart

this a little bit? And it still hasn't worked. So if you've done that, if you've made those changes, you've already kind of committed that act of desperation by shuffling your offensive staff. How much more desperate can you get? And it just feels like they're going to be grasping at straws here because I don't think there's an easy answer to any of these questions. It's funny. It's like usually all these staffs that come under heat, they almost kind of goes down the same narrative every time or same like Domino's fall. It's like, okay, first it's maybe a player change, personnel change.

okay then it's assistant coaches get fired then coordinator's getting fired or scouts getting fired or regional directors getting fired and then it's like okay well we're on the last envelope and that has the head coaches or GM's names on it like but that's yeah that's the narrative it's gone down who knows with this team it's such a weird team that's the only way to describe it like you yeah they just have no so like other teams have had those silver linings the silver lines for this is like that what it's you know you have a broken wence to build around or what else can they do like you know it's going to be really fun when the rams have to go to philadelphia and they lose to this team in the wild carl ground and i cry that's exactly what's

going to happen right 17 13 like 17 13 couple fluky plays fumble in the red zone that got maybe return to the five yard line yeah and then like a missed field goal or like a missed opportunity at the end where he throws a pick. And then it was just like, wow, just saved his job in Philadelphia. Yeah, that's exactly what's going to happen. It's inevitable at this point. It's November 16th. I'm already pissed off that I have to watch the Eagles play a play a playoff game a month and a half from now. But again, I don't think this is a given the same way it was a couple weeks ago. They are absolutely playing poorly enough to blow this. And the Giants might just, the fact that the Giants offense for the first quarter of this game today was just Daniel Jones read option plays and the Eagles couldn't

do anything about it. I think is all you need to know about the state of the NFC East race. I had a play tweeted the Giants, the Giants had two guys run the same exact route on third down. Like they ran the same route both in the Philadelphia coverage, the Eagles coverage, busted. So both guys, even though they're running the same route about a yard away from each other, we're both wide open in the middle of the field. And the ball got dropped. And I was just like, that's, that's NFC East right there. You got to bust the coverage.

Two guys run the same route. Drop ball. All right, fourth down. NFC East. There's no other way we can end the show. All right. That's all we got for this week, bud. Really appreciate it as always.

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