The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Kyler vs. Tua, the Saints maul the Buccaneers, Patrick Mahomes is a cheat code, choosing between the Falcons & Texans & more in our week 9 reaction

Episode Date: November 9, 2020

The Athletic's Robert Mays and Nate Tice react to the biggest stories coming out of week 9 in the NFL like the Saints' dismantling of the Buccaneers, Patrick Mahomes' insane abilities, Josh Allen outlasting the Seahawks, the Ravens defense stepping up to stop the Colts, Kyler Murray and Tua Tagovailoa's shootout and much more. Plus the guys ask "Who would you rather coach next year...the Texans or Falcons?"Get access to The Athletic for $1 at theathletic.com/footballshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays. Joining me tonight. It's my good buddy, Nate Tyson. Nate, how are you? Doing great. I texted this morning.

I think we're about 15 minutes into the morning games. And I just go, there's too many games. I felt that week one overwhelming feeling that I just wanted to watch every game at once and take notes and and just like have thoughts and tweets. But we settled in. I think all of us settled in, and we focus on a lot of good football today. Just a really enjoyable week. I mean, I think that across the board, I mean, the early slate was full of stuff. It was hard to keep track of everything that was going on.

There was one stretch where it was like, I can't even remember all the things that happened in like a 10 second period. It was in my fantasy league, like four games swung in an instant. I was like, oh, man, there's a lot happening right now. And then that afternoon slate, which we'll get to, just a ton of interesting, noteworthy performances from guys. that we haven't seen a lot or we haven't seen it all to a certain degree, which I definitely am excited to talk about. Before we do any of that, though, I want to talk about the best team in the NFL.

And that's a conversation that's probably changed a few different times over the last month. And I'm as guilty of this as anyone. I love whatever's new and kind of hemming and hoeing over. Who's really the best team? And who's falling? Who's rising? All of that stuff. I trust me.

I get enamored with all the things that we've never seen before and all the teams we've never seen before. And the reason I bring this up is that I think a couple weeks ago, people probably would have said the most complete team in the league was the Bucks. They're currently number one in the DVOA. They're a really good offensive team, a really good defensive team. They're balanced, all that stuff. And they come out and get absolutely blown out tonight by the New Orleans Saints. Not a lot of outcomes when this game could shock me because I think that anything can happen when you're playing two teams that familiar with one other, everything else. This was shocking to me.

Yeah. Football House here has just tweeted. I think like five minutes right before we just came on to record this and that the Saints put up their DVOA for this game was 142.7 percent. Which is, they basically just said, oh, it's the strongest game by a team, individual game in recent memory. They're going to have to check the records. And yeah, the Saints are the number one team now in DVOA. But are they really the number one team in the NFL right now? That's kind of what we have to figure out. But it's, yeah, but it's the Saints just, I mean, just Molly whooped them.

Do people even say that anymore? It was just, oh, but it was just ugly. Like, I'd even have to really pay attention after the second quarter. Do you, I mean, these games happen. Teams get jumped on. I mean, the Bucks did this to the Packers a few weeks ago where it just feels like the game gets away from you immediately. do you think you learned anything about either of the teams that played tonight?

Do you think you learned anything substantial? I don't think I learned anything about the Bucks because I just think they're still very good team. But I think we did learn a good bit about the Saints in the sense that they were, you know, they were competitive and being, they were a good team, not even 100 percent as like a full team, completely healthy and all that. And now they are and it's growing. And all of some, they just got unleashed tonight.

and it's like that's pretty scary and it's kind of I mean but we're just it's funny how a lot of this is really Occam's Razor and really what we talk about in August it's like yeah this is kind of what we expected out of the Saints and now they're fully healthy so oh yeah this is how good they can look but they just I mean they this I it was a big statement for them it's a division win like you said sometimes these games just get out of the hand NFL and in the second half it's just a coasting and then maybe one little highlight play happens and the fantasy people are very very into what happens in the second half. But really, after this second quarter,

it was this was a big statement by the Saints. And really, they really announced themselves as one of the top tier teams. I mean, that's the thing is that the Saints were five and two coming into this game. They were top 10 in DVO and offense and defense. But I don't think anyone was excited about them. Just because we've seen versions of the Saints

in the past where they're this high-flying, really explosive offense, full of defensive stars. And I picked them to make them to make. the Super Bowl before the season started, in large part, because of that. They were this loaded roster, and I just expected them to kind of come out guns blazing just because they had continuity in an offseason where that seemed to really matter. That didn't happen.

They kind of fell flat at the beginning of the year, whether it was injuries or whatever. But to be five and two and still a top 10 team on both sides of the ball, when you've been struggling a little bit, that's a good thing. That's something where you're like, all right, that's a team that absolutely could hit another gear and it feels like they might be finding that other gear. The Michael Thomas part of this is obviously important. He's one of the best offense players in the NFL that's not a quarterback. Getting him back is going to help them in the long run.

The more important thing for me, though, is what they're starting to look like on defense with everybody else getting back. Now that Davenport is back. Now that Onyamata is playing and they have that full group, he had seven pressures tonight. Brady was one of six for 10 yards with a sack on those pressures. And Hendrickson also had seven pressures. And that's, when you're looking at this roster, that to me is what made them dangerous. When Trey Hendrickson is your number two pass rusher on the edge, instead of your number three pass rusher with Doudinport out, it starts to knock everyone down a notch. The same with

Manuel Sanders being your number one receiver and Camara being your only real threat. It starts to knock everyone down and they're getting reps. They're getting now they're getting better. And it's just my God, it's just like a, you know, just they just each cycle, each type type of guy is getting better. The guys that are healthy and the top tier guys, they're coming back. They're already very good. And then all of a sudden, yeah, these backups there were maybe getting five, 10 reps a game are now getting 30, 40, 40 real reps. And that actually, that's just when improves players is they actually have to play in the live bullets. And even on, you're speaking to a defense, which is so, I mean, so like their improvement is just week over week. But even on

offense. Like we were worried about Breeze's arm and we still might be but like I still am they were playing to Panthers. Yeah, still am. They were playing to Panthers and he's throwing these Ephis pitches out there and they're still getting completed with all these backups backup receivers and stuff and it's like oh my god they're still looking very very good on offense even with that going on and now they got Michael Thomas back and you know we're still you know luckily Breeze plays in a dome but we're going to have to check the wind every week with with how their past games going to go like we did when they play in Chicago but they're putting together these good wins.

And like they played Chicago, like I said, in that windy game, and they put together a win there. It's like no matter who they're playing, whoever gets in front of them, they're putting together these team wins. Offense shows up one week, defense shows up another. They're just a really good team. I mean, now they're six and two. They obviously lost the tiebreaker to Green Bay. So if they end up at the same bracket, Green Bay, I'll get homefield advantage.

But they're six and two and sitting atop the NFC. I mean, they absolutely, if they start really. getting in a groove here could snatch home field advantage away and be playing in the dome all the way to the Super Bowl. So that's huge. But that's for another day. And as all these teams are kind of jockeying in the

NFC for position and supremacy, there's a team in the AFC that is not the undefeated team, by the way, that to me is still very much in the driver's seat and they will be the best team until somebody really beats them. And that is the Kansas City Chiefs.

Obviously, the Steelers went to 8-0 today. They did not look very good against a terrible Cowboys team. Not surprising. Those games happen. Just really conservative game plans for your quarterback, getting the ball out of his hands.

Don't let him be the reason you lost. I actually thought that this is probably the best coach game that Cowboys had all year to a certain degree, and they still lost. And it wasn't that impressive. It was like a moral victory for like a rebuilding team. Exactly. Exactly.

Even though the Steelers are undefeated, I am still perfectly. comfortable saying that the chiefs are the best team in the league. And again, I'm as guilty if this as anyone you want to find the new thing, the new exciting thing, everything else. And I think I've just forgotten, and I think to a certain degree, some of us have forgotten just how good Mahomes is and just how good this team is. Every week he makes five to ten throws. That would be other guys as like career highlights or season highlight throws. And we just forget about them because he's just so ridiculously good. There's,

so confident what the chiefs are. They're just so confident in themselves that no matter what the score is, it's just like, well, they're going to score and just either extend the lead, take the lead, get close to tying the game or just get themselves back in the game. No matter what the situation is, they're just going to attack and get it. The Panthers brought everything they had. They were throwing haymakers today. And Mahomes is just walking through it. It's like a horror movie villain. I mean, it's that kind of stuff where he's just constantly, just taking an axe to the chest and just continuously walking through it. Some of the stuff today, and there are a few plays that I made sure I wanted to point out,

it was 727 left in the second quarter. It was a play action throw on first and 10. He was about 10 yards deep in the back field. And he was facing forward. Like he wasn't looking to his left, but somehow just threw the ball across his body to his left to Kelsey coming across 25 yards down the field without stepping into it and just hits him in stride to go. That was one of them.

At 1348 in the third quarter, he hit Kelsey on a little wheel up the left side line, where he was also facing forward and somehow push the ball inside just a bit while not moving that way. And he led Kelsey down the field somehow. I wanted to talk about that play because it's like, that's like what the chiefs do. That play is like this RPO they do where they run it's zone rate. They run a flat and then the tightening goes up the wheel. If another team ran that, it would just been a hand. it would just been a handoff.

Yeah. And, you know, just how it broke out and everything. And then what the chiefs do, it's a 30-yard gain, 20-something-yard gain to Kelsey right in stride with three guys in his face and Mojombs's his face. If another quarterback tried to do that, it would have been a sack and everybody was like, oh, man, what kind of play were they trying to run there? It would have looked like. Like, I mean, that seriously, that's what it would look like. If Mox is a back there. So appreciate that.

Just a little stray shot. But with Mahomes back there, it looks fantastic. And then the third one was, if 607 left in the third one. quarter, and it was the throw to Kelsey up the right sideline, where Mahomes is running at the line of scrimmage and somehow balances himself and hits him in stride up the seam for a monster gain to get them down to the 12-yard line. I point these plays out because, like you said, they would be the best play that most quarterbacks make an entire season. He makes five of them a game, and we don't seem to notice that much anymore because we're so used to it. But in the end,

when you tabulate all of these plays, he is, not surprisingly, number one in the NFL in EPA among all players. He's on pace to throw for 4,800 yards, 44 touchdowns, and two interceptions. Which, okay. We're not even talking about it. They're clearly number one in offensive DVOA. They're getting to a point now where the shit they're trying around the goal line, they're just bored.

They put him in motion for no reason today. They put the quarterback in motion because they could do it because they're trying to find new ways to challenge themselves. And it's exactly like you said. Teams throw everything they can at them, but in the end, they're just calmly winning these games. They calmly have the best player in the NFL. And they are casually the best team in the NFL. And that's just not going to change unless something drastic happens to their quarterback or how teams handle him. Yeah.

Unless there's just some, I mean, there was like a couple weeks ago people were like, oh, man, what the Patriots defense. is going to do to the chiefs and everything. It's like, no, they still screwed on them. It's like, all the blueprints every week. Yeah,

that's what it was too. It was like everyone has a blueprint. And it was like, no, getting penalties, the chief's having penalties on first and second down is not a blueprint. Like that is not sustainable because they're going to just keep coming at you. Like you said,

a serial killer in a movie. Like they had the back and forth motion. Like the only thing I can compare it to is like the, the warriors, the Curry warriors and Clay Thompson and all that. And it's just, that's the only, they're bored.

Like they, they are fine. They're down four. 14 3 or whatever it is. They're down two scores and they're just like, yeah, whatever. They, the, the score to put up, uh, two scores in the fourth quarter, it was to, to hill and it's a stool route is what I've been taught. It's called, but it's a fake fade and he comes back down and to the front pile on,

usually around the sprint out. And teams will run that. It's kind of in a high leverage situation. You're really putting on your players because what the chiefs have more talent than anybody with the, with the quarterback back there. And then all these weapons he has with it that they just, it was so casual that's like most times I'd be like, oh my God, I'm writing up that play. Like, what a great, what a great route.

What a great call, whatever this. It's just, it's just another notch in the chief's offensive belt. Like, they just do it. I've seen them do with Kelsey. They have multiple guys that can run this route. I've only been around two guys that can really run it. It's Michael Crabtree and Randy Moss. So, and they have Kelsey that can run it and Hill that can run it.

And they have a quarterback that throws it right to the guy's chest. It's like, they do this stuff weekly. And it's just, we just have to keep up and just keep like clapping as we, as we keep watching this offense operate. I said it earlier today. it's almost like a game of Madden from like 2005. I haven't played Madden since 2005, so I don't know if the game has changed at all.

Was that Ray Lewis on the cover? That was Ray Lewis on the cover. That was the best one. I played the version with the vision cone, but I'm talking pre-vision cone when you could just press the B button, even if the guy was all the way in the other side of the field

and you were running the other direction and still get there. That's what Patrick Mahomes is. It's the fact that all of these plays are on the table. And he can find people no matter what direction he seems to be moving, no matter where that guy is on the field. It just solves so many problems. He is the ultimate cheat code.

And it's just so incredibly nice to have. I watch a team that cannot move the ball and fights against itself on every single play. And the chiefs are whatever the opposite of that is. And it is just so apparent to me every single time I watch them. And again, we can do all of this hemming and hauling and all of this back and forth about well, who's the best team this week and who's the best team this week and who's the most complete team? And it doesn't matter. Like it's at a certain point, they are going to be the best team.

They look the best. The numbers back it up, especially in offense. Their defense is an above average unit. If your defense is above average and you have that offense, you're probably the best team. And that's where I come down. You know, I want to be excited about the bucks. I want to be excited about what the Saints can be as they kind of figure all this stuff out. But in the end, the chiefs are the best team and everyone else is playing catch up.

I agree. It's everybody else has their blemishes or a weekend, week out. They have the inconsistencies. And the chiefs always have the really important consistencies. They have Andy Reid calling plays and designing plays, you know, Mbiammy. And they also have Patrick Mahomes behind center. And as long as they have that every single week, they're going to be in every single game. And they're going to be the best team and the team to beat.

Well, let's get to some newer guys. The things that are new with who won the week here. Just win, baby. So just a heads up, what you guys heard is one of the newer kind of audio transitions that we're doing. We're just full disclosure. We're trying to make the show a little bit easier to follow. I would like to hear from you guys. It's a little intrusive.

It's a little bit too much. When you're doing a podcast for the first year, you're trying to figure stuff out, trying to figure out the best ways to do things. We are firmly in experiment mode. So I don't be hesitant to reach out. Don't be bashful. But, you know, we're trying some stuff. So let's get to who won the week here.

And my first candidate is us to a certain degree. I think that watching that afternoon slate today, we won. You, me, the football watching public won. And the reason that we won is because of the young quarter. quarterbacks in the NFL right now. And they're the guys who really won the week. Talking about Kyler Murray, Tua, Justin Herbert. I know Joe Burrow didn't play today, but he's been great, even though we hate him, apparently. He has been really good, which that's a whole another thing. But those guys, those three guys that did play today and the guys that made up the

afternoon slate, it's impossible not to watch those games and be optimistic about the direction the league is headed. So when you were watching today, who did you just enjoy the most? Like, who put a smile on your face among those three more than the rest. I got to go with Kyler. God, he was just, he was just fantastic. I know. That was tough because Herbert just keeps doing what he's doing every single week and it's just so much fun.

Like I'm just, I'm fully on board with him and two. It was great. But Kyler, I mean, the bad stat, it's a good and bad set. He first, I think pro football reference tweeted us out, first quarterback to throw for 25 plus times and have a pass rating over. 150 and lose in NFL history. And he also rushed for over 100 yards too. He is just so unreal with the ball in his hands, like just these design QB runs, not even just mentioning scrambling, because what's so cool with Kyler is he's not just like, he's not just scrambling just to

scramble. He's going to stay in the pocket and work his eyes downfield and let these guys come open and try to attack intermediate and deep. And then he scrambles. And then they have the design run stuff. So, but he's a true quarterback. You know, it's he doesn't look. like what we, these statuesque big old school quarterbacks. Yeah, but he can do those quarterback things. And you can tell he's always aware of what's going on with the game. And the other thing it's cool to watch with Kyler is that he's improving is he still has a skill set, these traits that are really game breaking with how fast he is.

But he's doing things. He was bailing out in the pocket last year and he was going backwards. So sacks were becoming instead of six yards, we're nine yards, 12 yards, total drive killers. And now he's staying in the pocket and coming up and out. And it's like, okay, so he's still improving, which is, you know, he's offensive rookie to last year, offense rookie to the year last year. And we know quarterback's Oregon obviously get better and better. But like all of a sudden he's taking already another leap and this is just year two.

And it's like, oh my God, this is scary to watch him. Just awesome. But, you know, and that game was great. We dove into the dolphins last week, all the cover zero stuff. And the dolphins got him in one of the empty place. But then the next time was the next third down, same thing. Brought the empty look or a cover zero look. everyone mugged up and instead of just thrown the underneath stuff and them rallying and tackling,

which is what the dolphins wanted with those pressure looks, they just bombs away deep. And of course, Kyler throws just the perfect deep ball to Christian Kirk, like just couldn't place it any better. Just really fun to watch. It's disappointing that they lost, you know, Tua, we're going to talk about him. I'm sure. Fourth quarter was unbelievable. But it's, you know, Kyler is just a really fun player. One of my favorite players to watch in the league, period.

He just looks so different doing it. And when I watch him play, I want to say, and, my mind. I've never really seen anything like this before. Yeah. But it's because he's so small. I mean, I think aesthetically, that's the reason. Because Lamar was doing similar stuff to this last year, where he's affecting the game as a runner in an improvisational way and in a way that's designed. And Kyler, this season on design runs is the most efficient runner in the NFL. He has added more EPA as a runner, not on passing plays than any player in the league. Dalvin Cook is second. And that's, that's, not surprising. When you watch what they're able to do with him, the runs are such weapons

when they're designed and when he's making stuff happen. Even today, I went back and I was watching the scrambles. I was like, oh, were they in man? Are they creating some lanes for him? Is he getting out? No. They're dropping eight or like dropping seven or eight and he's just finding little creases and running for nine yards at a time. It was really amazing just how often they were able to do that. And the designs they have for him off of that. Yeah. His touchdown, they had Kirk coming in jet motion to the left.

And then they had Williams coming across on like a little wham action. So they had two guys leading up for him. And the touchdown he threw to Williams. Williams, I felt so bad for Krugier Hill on this play. He was in like, he was sitting there on the end at the, as the end man in the line of scrimmage. They did a little read action with the running back. And Williams was coming across.

so he's getting red by the quarterback in his mind. And then there's a guy coming to block him. And he's like, oh, I have to steady myself with this block coming at me. And then he bypasses him into the flat for an easy touchdown. I was like, what are you supposed to do? There's nothing you can do. There's nothing you could do. It's almost a mean to be doing those three things to him on that same play.

You didn't need the fake. You didn't need to leave him unblocked on that side. And they are just able to do such a good job with that stuff. And even like the little speed option on fourth and one that they had. They just know, which it really frustrated at me that the fourth and one they needed to win the game, they didn't let him keep the ball in his hands. It's like, why? This has worked so often all game.

Why would you not give him the ball on this play? Yeah, they're in a zone read, scrape technique, which is scrape exchange, which is supposed to design to stop that play. And it should have. And Coward just makes a miss. No, no, no. That was, yes. No, I know. I know.

But I'm saying with that, though I'm going off of what you're saying too. So then also it's like now you'd want to. to just hand the ball off and not like Cowan just make a play for you just let it make plays for you. It's good. It's good football. What he did to Kyle Van Nuoy on that play, I feel, I mean, it's just he's making professional football players look silly in the same way the Lamar did last year. And I think that's the best comparison for me, even if the act of watching it and what it looks like coming at you is a little bit different just because he's so small and he has the quickness and everything else. It's kind of remarkable how he can fit through these tiny creases because, in a way,

he's so small. I mean, it's, I've never really seen anything like it because we've never seen like a quarterback bill like this. Yeah. Yes. I mean, it's a slightly taller Darren Sproles playing quarterback. Yeah. Slightly taller.

I mean, he's, I want to, I would not at all be surprised if Kyler was doing a little tippy toes action when he was getting measured at the combine. Oh, absolutely. You see him and Russ next to each other. They're supposed to be like a quarter inch apart. It's like, no. What? So you said that you enjoyed.

watching Kyle are the most of the young quarterbacks on Sunday. I enjoyed watching two of the most. And the reason for that is because I've never seen him play in the NFL like this. Obviously, he played last week, but it was an ugly game. They didn't need him to do much. Watching him kind of get unleashed in this game was exciting, man. It was really exciting. Just the type of stuff they were doing with him, whether it was the play action, boot stuff and getting him on the move, or how quickly he was getting the ball out of his hands, or some of the stuff he was doing as a scrambler, everything about what they wanted him to be and what people projected him to be and what they said his strengths were going to be. That's what we saw on Sunday. We saw those

quick twitch movements where he's almost playing quarterback like he's a short stop, getting the ball out of his hands and moving and just turning really fast. He's making smart decisions, throwing a beautiful ball down the sideline. All these things he did were like, man, I mean, this is exactly what you wanted from him. And the most encouraging part of it is that it's exactly what you wanted from this end point of the plan that the dolphins had, right? This was it. You wanted to get your quarterback.

You didn't have to trade up to get him. You get this guy. You put him in even when people were questioning why you should. And there will be bad games down the road. There'll be bad games, maybe even next week. He's a young quarterback who's not going to play against defenses that are as incomplete as Cardinals defense is. But the traits were there.

The little things were there. How quickly got the ball out of his hands were there. The movement skills were there. His ability to play in the structure as you moved him and play out of structure when he needed to. All of that stuff you wanted to see from him, I think, was on display on Sunday. Yeah. I mean, really agree with the part about like, I haven't really watched him. I've really focused more and more NFL as I've gotten older and older and just been

evolved with the NFL. So I didn't, I saw two, of course, in the big games. but I didn't watch as much film of him as probably other guys have. And then he doesn't go through the combine process and all that, just, you know, office reasons. But it's so cool watching him is that he has a plan on every play. Like you said, it's, it's, there is the quick twitch movements and the ball is getting out. And it's because he knows what he's being a part of of every play. And at least there's, there's plays.

And it's like, it's a really kind of a difference you can tell. I don't know if it's, I don't know how best way to describe it. It's like these plays that you're giving these guys, maybe 50, 50 opportunities, your receivers. His had a purpose. And it wasn't just like chucking the ball up and like go make a play. It's like, no, he's missing in directions. And also he's like, I have no better options. It's not going.

I have no idea what's going on this play. Oh my God. I see one of my guys. I'm throwing it to him. It's no. There was kind of like a desperation heave to get a little bit. The one to get sick. The one to get sick he had to go get it.

And that was like, oh, man, all right. He's, that one was a little bit of a desperation heave. Other than that, I totally agree. with you. He checks are real for quarterbacks. But yeah, but he had one going to the left too where he just misses away. But it's like, okay, he at least knows what he's doing on these routes or what he's trying to get done. And like the, I tweeted it right before we came on. It's, you know, Tua had a sequence where he just blacked out. The end of third quarter going into the fourth, fourth quarter. That drive was unbelievable. And it was just he made plays with his legs on third down,

got the first where he truly made a guy miss. It wasn't just like everyone had their their backs turn. That scramble on second and four, that silly little scramble. And that was a crazy play. Yes, that was ridiculous. Just tossing, limbs going everywhere. Yeah. And the touchdown throw, the Kisiki, who's, you know, like, I'm pretty sure it was

Gisci who's like just Jimmy Graham Jr. You know, Diet Coke Jimmy Graham at this point. He is nowhere in that tier. But it's just that's what his role is where he can just throw these balls up to him. And but he puts it where the guy can make a play. And it was just a, it was just a revelation almost for me. And just seeing what Tua can be.

Again, like you said, Yeah, next week, it could be, it could be a bad week. But it was like, okay, I get, I get what he's supposed to be. Last week, he wasn't asked to do much, like you said, too. And just how the game script was. But he had one throw to the right and out route. And I was like, oh, he has a live arm. Like it was like, it's not just a little thinking duck stuff and just timing stuff.

It was like, oh, he has a live arm. Okay, cool. Like that's, that's different than when I was picturing him. And now I got to see more of it this week. And it's going to be fun to just keep watching him go. It's one of those things. where when you talk about play speed with other positions, like receivers or whoever where a guy doesn't necessarily run a great clock's time,

but when you see them move on the field, it looks faster. I don't think Tua has a canon by any stretch, but the decisions are so quick and he gets rid of the ball so fast that you'd never notice it. I mean, there was zero fat. Yes, that's exactly right. Zero fat on stuff.

Everything's so fundamentalist sound. And the way is, he really is a great athlete. And I mean that is he's a great athlete playing quarterback. That quick twitch stuff really jumps out to you. He had a play. It was late in the second quarter. The Cardinals had like a little four-man pressure. They brought defensive backs, but they only ended up bringing four.

So he had a little space. And he stepped up in the pocket. And we've talked about this before. It's extremely hard to throw a football while you're running straight at the line of scrimmage. The body control you have to have to do that is really difficult. And he's running straight at the line of scrimmage on this play. and just delivered a strike to Parker on the right side. And what you would have to be able to do with your body

and how compact do you have to be, all that stuff, that's really difficult to do. Then there were two other plays that really jumped out to me, and there were subtle things. To throw on, with 26 seconds left in the second half, it was that little flip to Laird to get them into field goal range. He's looking for that outlet and that checked out against pressures, and he can get it off quickly.

Just little things like that. I was so impressed with how he understood whether it was the design of plays or where his help was. I thought they did a great job today of getting him on the move. They were pulling the right guard on those boot actions to the left to give him a little bit of extra protection. Just stuff like that. I thought Chandalee called a great game and I thought too played a great game. I am very excited to see what he will look like in this offense for the rest of the season. If it's like this, I mean, he's going to be must-see television every single week.

Yeah. It's just going to be for me and you, it's just going to be more. more reps that we get to see of them because it's basically going to just double the full games that we get to see of them it's like okay there we go now we get to see even more and what all this hype been about for the last couple of seasons but yeah it's I mean they ran a nice little tight end screen like you said chan galey calls just a great game for him it was it was really fun to see to a spotlight like this and and deliver and ways and have just those moments like those moments that you want a qb to have in those very high variance or not high variance moments but high leverage

moments. And yeah, just really cool to see. Do you want to do 30 obligatory seconds on Justin Herbert? Just talk about how he just continues to just be so much fun to watch. I mean, the way, the throw he had down the left sideline, I think it was the Gighton, where he's just bouncing a little bit to the left and just launching a 50-yard bomb while never setting his feet. His pocket movement and his awareness in the pocket really jumped out to me today. He made some really nice throw The one to Allen coming across the right side down inside the 10-yard line, he had to step up and step over. It was kind of like watching what Burrow can do in the pocket. And when you're doing that, it's 6-6 with one of the best five arms in the league already, I feel totally comfortable saying?

It's ridiculous. And every ball looks the same. They're these liners. No matter where it is, it's 50 yards, 20 yards, 10 yards. They're all the same exact line drive throws right into the guy. I mean, yeah, just the accuracy. Do you think he has the second best arm in the NFL already? second no but five is yeah easy five well balms is clearly one once one yeah i mean rogers

rogers yeah i was just going to say but russ russ and stafford because russ's deep balls are ridiculous and on the move but he's getting there tough five is right i think but even we're having this conversation just seems nuts yeah exactly and it's it just looks easy yeah just consistent that's what's it's i can't believe how consistent he is every week i mean he still has a couple is, but it's like, it's, but he's making these throws on third down and just every down now. It's like, like you said, the pocket movement, it's, it looks so crazy because he's so big. And it's like, it looks like his feet are out of whack, but it's not because he's such a good athlete that he can, his, he can move his body just how he needs to, even though it doesn't

look like a traditional, like step over and step up. And the, even the goal line fades at the end, like those balls were dimes. Like, he puts the hardest throw, one of the harder throws you can make, because it's a true matchups throw. And there's, there's stuff's happening and you just have to it's one of those you can overthink it's like a basketball shooter going like should I should I bank this or should I shoot right at the at the net or at the rim and so like because you sometimes you want to lob it up and sometimes you want to line it and the best quarterbacks just know what to do at the right time and he threw them both perfect at exact placement that he should and exact timing he should so it's like God you can just you're doing that already as a rookie this is pretty scary stuff the only thing more consistent that Justin Herbert right now is the charger's ability to find heartbreaking ways to lose these games. The fact that they won this one and then it got taken away from them, it, I mean, oh gosh, it's, I'm sitting here and it's just the Alonzo morning gift every single week.

It's like, man, the Chargers is fine. Another way to blow these games. It's like, they're going to have a top seven pick and most of this team's coming back and the quarterback is good. None of this matters. So it's, I'm called between a rock and a hard place here. It's like, I want to see them win one of these. And I feel bad for Anthony Lynn at this point.

this team is good. I think they're going to be good. I think he's a good coach. But at the same time, it's like, oh, well, I mean, you're not going to win the Super Bowl this year. You might as well pick in the top 10, get Jamar Chase and then just figure it out next year. Go for the next step from there.

Yeah, no, I agree. I think the Alonza morning gift is perfect for it. Just like, yeah, well, this is going to work out. Or just even the Kermit, the Kermit gift where he's just staring straight up. He's like, I'm going to get a top, I'm going to get a top seven pick. I should get a top seven pick and just stop winning. All right. Let's get to our next candidate here.

The Buffalo Bills taking it to the Seahawks today. Josh Allen, 31 to 38, 415 yards, three touchdowns. I mean, big win for the Bills, statement win for the Bills. Because I think that the Seahawks defense is objectively bad, and we can get to that. But I had some questions coming into this game about what the Bills' offense was. Could they hit their stride again? Is this the team that we saw during the first month this season? Is it the team we've seen over the last month?

Where are they in the middle of that? And I was very impressed with the way that they played today. Pete Carroll came out and said he was surprised they threw the ball so much. And they had a great game plan for stopping the run today, which good for you, Pete. I don't know. Got to just. If teams are choosing not to run and they're throwing with 415 yards, it's probably time to not care about that run stopping plan anymore. So, I mean, was there anything about the bill's approach here that really jumped out to you?

you just feel like the Seahawks defense is pretty much a lost cause at this point. It's cool to see the bills just have no issues, just spamming whatever is working for them and not just overthinking. I love it. So many play callers. I mean, dozens, hundreds of people playing mad and no, I've called that too much. They're on to me. And it's like, no, just keep spamming what's working, buddy.

And last week they, like we're going to talk about probably is like the bills barely even ran the ball today. Last week, they threw the ball 18 times. and the runnerbacks had 28 carries and then this week. So it's good. That's a good sign. That means, hey, whatever's working, we're going to go. And the fact that they can do both is a good thing. They were dialed in.

The first touchdown, I think it was. It was the overrout. It might have been second. It was the first one. First one. It's like. It was great. It was great play design because they, how they did it was a tie, for the

backside, they tied down the backside defenders. And no one carried the overrout. which was a receiver. Why didn't they? That was my question because they looked at they were in a single high safety look. There was nothing holding the free safety there because the stop route that digs ran in from the slot was like a five-yard route. So I don't understand what the safety was looking at.

I know. I was kind of curious about it too. And it's probably one of those that the all 22 will show more. But I was, I looked like a bus. No one carried, someone who was supposed to carry the linebacker or the down safety. I believe the term is robot. And they're supposed to carry the number three going on the over. and no one did.

And that's where, but it shows good design too because that's what teams will like to do to attack that. Just for exactly that example, they're anticipating maybe a linebacker running with a receiver. And that's what the Seahawks have been able to get away with for years and years and years because they have ridiculously good linebackers is being able to carry those receivers on those routes. But they didn't on that place. So it's a wide open touchdown.

But then on the flip side, or not at the flip side, but also the bills are also able to do stuff like they're running quarterback pinpole for touchdowns with Josh Allen. It's like they can do all this stuff. And then they have nice play action stuff with with Josh Allen faking the run. I mean, just good stuff that they can do every week. And it's it's a nice variations every week. They know what they have. They got Colbiz, Beasley working from slot digs was on fire today. John Brown had some nice plays. They ran a screen to him where no defender was within it was like a third and 15. No defender was within 15 yards

probably it looked like of John Brown. So just Zach Moss is coming on like. Like, Bill's are doing good stuff on offense. That's what impressed me. You said that they just kept spamming what was working, but there were subtle adjustments in this game. On the first drives, Seahawks weren't blitzing at all. And I think they quickly realized this is not going to work. If we just bring forward, they're going to slice and dice us this entire game.

So they started bringing more heat. And it was working to a certain degree. They had seven sacks in this game. They're bringing a lot of slot pressure. They were bugging Allen. And I think that if we're, picking between the lesser of two evils and I was Seattle today, I'd much rather make him uncomfortable and deal with fewer numbers on the back end. So when they, Seattle got it to 27 to 20

and it felt like the game was shifting a little bit. Buffalo comes out and I believe on the first play of that next drive, that was that screen they hit to Zach Morris on the left side. And it's just such such a smart way to stop the bleeding when you know they're bringing heat consistently, especially on early downs. And that's exactly what happened on the John Brown play. It's third and 15. You know they're coming. They've been doing it the entire half, essentially after your first drive.

Let's just flip the ball out, get a guy in space, let him work. And it worked. So that's what I really liked is even if they did seem like they were just smashing the button over and over again with this stuff, they did make a little tiny adjustments within that game to put them in the right spot. That's where it's the double edge short for bringing those types of pressures that the C-Ox are bringing. because they're bringing Adams just basically like as an outside linebacker.

I mean, that's basically what he is on some of these plays. I mean, that's what he is. And they're just bringing them like in the rushing five. And they're saying it, they're really going gash or be gash. Some of those plays though is Adams ends up on a left tackle.

And it's just like they, the other four aren't getting the job done. Adams is against a left tackle and it's basically there, that plays just, I mean, he's just dead for the play. And then all of a sudden, Josh Allen gets to sit back there and all these moving routes.

and Allen's getting better and better at hitting them consistently. So that's where it's gash or be gash. And then when it is getting protected, that's where getting gashed, be gash can happen. Adams did have a nice sack where he blew up the tight end. I think it was, or maybe the running back.

And it was a really nice play. But it's scary. You're playing with fire with that. You're really putting a strain on your dbs. And do you trust your dbs? I think the Ciox are trying to say that they do. But it's hard. It really is hard for them to,

to do that snap after snap. It's a nice change up, but to live in that is really hard to do. I know that Dunlap is his first game today. If Adams' first game back, you hope there's a little bit more continuity. Dunbar just doesn't look right. There are a couple plays today where Gabriel Davis just, I don't even understand what he was doing. The play was down the right sideline. I think they were in a cover three look, and Davis just ran a post corner and he just lost them.

And I was just said they were like, what is happening? There was another play where Adams was actually yelling at Dunbar to, get, I think, underneath the, it was a digs completion on the right side line, and you just tell Adams was really frustrated after the play. It feels like there's something going on there. So combine all that stuff with just that kind of desperation approach to be bringing all those bodies. Are you worried that this could be the Achilles heel for Seattle, where this defense just

never gets to a point where they can keep up with some of these teams and eventually it's going to hold them back down the stretch? Yeah, it's the good of this was the Patriots game, that they came out in the end and won that game. The bad of this is tonight or today. It's that's what those are the that's what they're going to get in. These are these shootouts are going to get in every week. They really need to adjust though. I mean, they are just not getting it done past. They had seven sacks which is so funny to talk about, but it just felt like Alan was able to just sit back there and dice them up. Even with those seven sacks, it is just, it is concerning because that, but it is what we thought they were.

We earlier this year, we said the NFC is kind of like the big 12 a little bit. And I think as the Saints have adjusted, the Seahawks have it. Like, it is, it is concerning. They're just, they can still score. The, the offense is still doing a nice stuff. The bills had some great plays today. I think, you know, Tremade Edmins is coming on, like where he's, I mean, really doing some nice stuff, passing game and running game. I thought Trey White had some really nice plays in this game. I was getting worried about him. I saw he got bullied by Metcalf. He got bullied by Metcalf a couple times that one played on the left sideline. McCafs just ran right through. It's going to happen. But the interception at the last

To kind of seal the game Really nice smart play by him He comes off I think it was in quarters He the guy in front of him Is 10 yards in front of the sticks He knows it doesn't matter He falls off gets the pick

And there was another play I want to say it was early in the game The first or second drive for the Seahawks He was same technique Playing off David Moore ran a little Out route right by the sticks And he just drove hard on it

Broke it up It was like all right This is nice to see And I think the offensive line stuff I'll be curious to see what that group looks like for Buffalo fully healthy because that was another kind of thing that exhausted, you know, compounded the problem today. You have Feliciano at center, which that's not his natural spot, but Morris is hurt, so he's

playing there. And then I think, believe Daryl Williams got hurt at one point today. So you got all these moving pieces, guys playing out of position, and you're bringing all this heat. So I think they'll be okay. And the last thing about this game, this is going to sound silly. Josh Allen has a really good arm. And this is one of those games where the arm talent more than the arm strength was apparent to me, where he's really getting the ball out quickly.

And when there's traffic around him because of how much heat they're bringing, he can get the ball out fast the last second and make you pay for bringing that. There was one play where he hit John Brown to the right side where he just got out of pressure a little bit and just put really good touch on the ball. It's stuff like that where it's like this is a difference between trying to throw the ball through guys all the time and kind of, harnessing the power that you have. And it feels like he's been able to do that a little bit more consistently this year, even if the last month hasn't quite held up to what he did over the first month of the season. He's kind of the worst case scenario for a team that wants to live in the world of pressures. He's athletic as hell, Josh Allen.

He's tough and does not care about standing in the pocket and taking a hit for better for worse. He really doesn't. He's the slowest guy to go down when he's getting sacked. He's actually like him at Big Ben or kind of comparable that way, where it's just like the dad with three kids pulling him down slow and he's still just looking around trying to get the throw up and he comes down to his knees like dang i totally agree and that's why i'll be really curious to look at the number is i want to see what his time to sack was today on those seven sacks because it felt like every time he was getting dragged down he was moving back toward the line

of scrimmits trying to step up or make a play it wasn't these initial beat like guys getting beat off the line of scrimmage instantly and him getting pulled down it felt like he was trying to milk everything he could out of these plays as he's want to do. Yeah. And the seven sacks only went for 29 total yards. So it's like four, four yards a sack. So it's actually okay.

And yeah, we're talking about seven sacks still. But yeah, like you said, it was positivity. It wasn't like him bailing out on the back. And like we talked, I said about earlier with Kyler bailing in a back and taking a

a 17 yard loss. It was a one year loss or two year loss, which in the grand scheme of things actually isn't too bad for what they were getting done in the down the field. I totally agree. Yeah, that's important, though. When the sacks aren't totally crushing you and they're not drive-killing plays, that makes a huge difference. All right, one more candidate for who won the week here.

The Ravens defense is pretty good, man. Philip Rivers had negative 9.2 EPA on the day. That was twice as bad as any other quarterback in the league. And as we've established, this is a pro-Philip Rivers podcast, and he had been having a really nice year. And the Ravens made him look silly today. you called the one play Colts random mesh and the Ravens gloved up this mesh concept like it was clinic tape for all levels of football they just the wheel route there was a guy just sitting there waiting everyone else was manned up they passed stuff off the whole defender was waiting for one of the

crossers the other guy was catching the other crosser even the guy going deep they had a post on tagged on this version of mesh there was a guy just running with it like no problem just jogging with the post it wasn't like oh shoot oh shoot oh shoot it was like it was just completely glove up and when that is covered, Philip Rivers is going to really do much with his legs. So it was like as soon as those concepts are just done to done, it's yeah. And the Ravens were able to do that over and over today. I complimented, we complimented the Colts in that in the sense it's a lot of these good solid players that they, it's death from a million different, different personnel members.

Like they just get you with all these different ways, all these different guys stepping up. But the flip side of that is, and I love that team philosophy and everything what they have. And of course, everybody wants their bona fide stars as their weapons. What the flip side of that is the Ravens are really, really freaking good in coverage and they have really, really good man defenders. And when you don't have a guy that can win, you can count on winning a rep. And that's where these stars come to play. They're the queens on the chessboard. They're able to break the game for you, even at plays that they're supposed to be covered or that no one else can win for you.

It's like, hey, games on the line, I know where the ball is going, even if it's not ideal. Ravens are able to snuff that out, especially in a team like the Colts that can't play from ahead. And they actually have to pass to move the ball like this. It was a really impressive performance from the Ravens. And they did it without Marlon Humphrey. Yeah. Without 44 out there. I know.

Marcus Peters was everywhere. I mean, he's just making play after play. I mean, he's just the type of guy that can do that every once in a while. It was a fantastic performance. And this is a team that not dissimilar to this. Saints where it's like, all right, are they going to figure it out? Are they going to figure it out? And they keep winning.

And today was one of those examples where it's like, all right, the offense did not play well in the first half. You still have a lot of the same issues you've been having. Come out. You make some plays on defense, make some games swinging plays on defense. But then the offense does find its footing a little bit in the second half. They did play much better in the second half. You go home with a win against a really good team and you're still keeping pace.

And I think that's where they are right now. It's like, all right, can they figure it out on offense? But having the defense with this gear that can carry you as you're figuring it out is a huge part of kind of getting through the season. Yeah. I know that's what's so funny is like, we're like, man, can they figure it out? They have blemishes. They're winning. Yes, exactly.

So they're taking these bad losses against bad teams. It's like, no, they keep beating bad teams and average teams. And like getting in coin flips with other good teams. It's like, no, that's what's kind of. of funny. It's is that we're trying to find blemishes for some of these really good teams because we know that they could be even better. And I'm, I'm excited to watch the Ravens keep ascending like this because, I mean, they just got Yonik, like, and Lamar is going to just keep being Lamar. Like he, they were Colts made him work for it today. And they're a really good defense.

They do. They do. And they, they were all over a lot of their stuff today. It was just a few plays. It was a, it was a slug fight or a slug fest today. It really was. And, The Ravens just made a few more plays, and Lamar made a lot of plays with those legs. I assume they're very excited to be playing football this Thursday and get this taste out of their mouths in Indianapolis. I guarantee you that that's the case. All right. Let's hear it from Vince. All right.

I don't want to belabor this, but what the hell is going on with the Lions? And the reason I don't want to belabor this is because it's boring because the Lions are the same team they've been for the last two seasons under Matt Patricia. The only thing that's different about the lions compared to what the lions were last year, what the lions were two years ago, is that now Matt Patricia has all the expensive players on defense that apparently fit the system of defense that he wants to run and Dalvin Cook had 22 carriers for 206 yards today.

I don't know if you know this. While the bills did not run and Pete Carroll's game plan got scrapped, I assume the lions thought the Vikings were going to run in this game. You have to figure it. they thought, knew it was coming, still didn't matter. The Lions are 3 and 5. Their defense is below average again after this offseason makeover that they had. They have remade this team in Patricia's image with the players that he wants, with the type of guys that he wants, and the results are no different.

So my question now is, now what? It feels like you can't do this again next year. You're starting over. But what does that starting over look like? Matthew Stafford is a $33 million cap hit next year. He's 32 years old. It feels like we're kind of getting to the point of no return here, right? They have to make a decision.

He only has $19 million in dead money left on his deal. So you're saving $33 in cash and 14 against the cap if you move on from him. I was having a conversation with an executive of a team this week. And he was talking about Stafford. They played Stafford this year. And he was talking about watching him warm up and just how ridiculous it is. It's like watching Steph Curry warm up before a basketball game. He's so talented and the results have just never been there.

And I'm almost talking myself into Matt Stafford, a decade and a half into his career, and saying like, man, if the right team were to trade for Matthew Stafford next year, what could that look like? And maybe that's silly. But it also feels like if you're the Lions and you really do have to hit the reset button here this offseason and try to do something different, he is the type of guy, even at 32 years old, that I still think you could get a lot for. or if you wanted to use that to jumpstart, whatever rebuild you have to go through. There's nothing about him that you,

like, are worried about descending as he ages. You know, it's like, you know, he had his age, it's like, you're going to,

if you did trade for him, like, you're going to get five good years out of him. It's worth the trade. We, when they played the Falcons a few weeks ago, we were like laughing at the end of the game. Like,

we were both like, well, Stafford did make some really good throws. Yes, yes. You always, you always have to like make fun of the lines and then go, Well, Stafford.

Stafford are like two awesome throws. Did you see those? Like, you just kind of have to mention them. I don't think we've ever had this conversation before. What do you think of Matthew Stafford? Man, I, I've always just really liked him. It's just I've never thought he had the right stuff around him. It is what everyone thinks.

I think he's very, I think he's good. I think he's that number. He's perfectly slotted in that eight to ten quarterback in the NFL. Like, that is his tier. That seems high. You do? I think, I think if. List them off.

Would you rather have like, would you rather have Matthew Stafford and Deshawn Watson for a year? Oh, Watson. Yeah, okay. You just said that very quickly. All right. So, and I agree with you.

So if it's Mahomes, Russell, Watson, yeah, Rogers. Yeah, Dak. Would you rather have Stafford or Matt Ryan?

Ah, that's, that's, Stafford. See? So we get to eight, we get to eight to ten pretty fast. Okay.

So, all right. If Matthew Stafford was in... Oh man, that's a good one. I have to say that. It's a good one. If you put Matthew Stafford on the Titans right now, is he better than the results they're getting from Ryan Tannahill?

I don't think so because I think Tannenhill is the perfect for what they're doing. Yeah, the movement that Tanahill gives you a little bit different. The movement is so much more athletic and... I can understand that. But the reason I ask that question. I get what you're saying, though. Yeah. If we have a change in circumstances for Stafford where he's dropped into...

a spot where he's getting the help that you don't think he's gotten, what can he look like and what can you talk yourself into? This is a silly conversation to have just because I don't know what the quarterback carousel looks like next off season. I mean, my team is going to need one. I could fucking tell you that right now. But other than that, I mean, it's hard to know exactly who's going to need one and where he could fit in.

And then on the flip side of this, if you're the Lions and you think he has five good, years left. And you think he's that type of guy that if you put the right help around him, he can be good. Maybe you don't want to move on from him, even though he has a $33 million cap it. So these are the questions that you have to answer. I just, it's so funny that the guy I was talking to from a team this week, and he's somebody that's been around for a long time. And both of us, in my novice, stupid brain, had the same thought he did where it's just kind of like, man, why is the Matthew Stafford better? And it's just amazing that we can still have this conversation or a decade and a half in Matthew Stafford's career.

But I also, and I always compare these guys to a certain degree, I think that Matthew Stafford's year last year was like one of his better ones. And like, that's what we could see him do. But Matt Ryan won the MVP when he was 32 years old. So it's just I'm fascinated by what circumstances mean for quarterbacks and what he could be in different ones and what the Lions think about that. I think it's a huge franchise altering question they have to ask themselves. And it's funny what we say like no help around him.

It's like, yeah, like Al Day and Marvin Jones. are nice players, but it's like, I mean, just overall as an organization, it's just like, I just want to see him without that line stank on him. Absolutely. Yeah. And like, man, I even, yeah, that's a great point talking about last year and just seeing that window before he got hurt where he was just in fuego. Like, he was on deep shots, push the ball down the field. It's just that version of it is, I'd like to see more of that with like slightly different distributions run past, things like that. It's just,

I'm trying to build the right, like circumstances for Matthew Stafford in my mind because he's so talented, I think he lends that sort of tinkering when you're thinking about why he hasn't been better. Yeah. And seeing what,

like you're saying with the play action and all those deep shots and stuff, it's like it's a shame he can't get with like McVeigh with the Rams or something like that. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

I want to put everyone in that offense. That's just, that's always how I do. I know, right? Yeah. Another candidate here for what just happened is my Chicago Bears,

because it does feel like they were in a slightly more high profile spot today with playing the Titans. People were watching them. Mike Sando, our friend Mike Sando tweeted at me during the game, are you doing okay? And it's like, yeah, man, I'm good. I watch this every single week.

You guys aren't as familiar with this. None of this is new to me. I have nothing left to say about this team. If you can watch what they're doing offensively right now and not think that this needs a tear down to the studs and completely to start over, I don't know what to tell you. I mean, Nick Foles has been as bad

as any quarterback in the NFL this year that's not named like Dwayne Haskins if you look at the numbers. And they gave up a fourth round pick to get him because they convinced themselves that they were one Nick Foles away because he knew the system. He knows the system real well

when they can't move the ball, man. I'm just telling you. How about the false start followed by the false start sequence on fourth and one? I can't even, I don't even want to talk about it. I know you were trying to get away and I just rope. So here's the thing. Okay.

All right. Let's do. Well, it's fine. All right. Now I mean, now you've engaged me. I will fully admit that I play up the bears despair every once in a while because it's funny. Or maybe it's not funny. It's whatever.

It's a good bit. There's no need to play it up at this point. I am not leaning into it. And I've actually kind of become a little bit withdrawn from it because it doesn't need me. for any sort of boost here. They are bad enough now that I don't need to be performatively sad about the bears anymore.

I'm just real sad. That's the point that we've reached and there's really no going back. You're at acceptance. I really am. It's just like, I mean, the bears are who we thought they were. And in this case,

it's not a very good football team. All right. Let's cap things off here with this week's Would You Rather? So we're going to be doing this every week. We're going to be picking between two things. You guys know, would you rather? It's a familiar game.

I was watching the games today. And this kind of struck me when I was watching Matt Ryan and Deshawn Watson kind of go back and forth and make plays. Matt Ryan another big day. Matt Ryan's been really good this year, like really good this year. And I think Deshawn Watson's also been pretty good. Some of his numbers are pumped up by garbage time, things like that. But if you look at just the raw,

numbers and even some of the advanced stats. Deshaun Watson's also been pretty good. So if you were Eric B. Enemy or Joe Brady or whoever, the guys up there on the coaching tier, and you had to pick between taking the Falcons job and the Texans job, which would you rather have? This is so hard, but gunned ahead. I'm going to go with the Texans. Why?

And it's just because of Deshaun Watson. And really, that is like the too long didn't read very. is Deshawn Watson, but I'm going to expand on that, of course. He's, you know, he's a star. You always, you're going to give your team a chance to compete. And if you're a new head coach, he's at least going to, Deshawn's going to have your head above water for at least a couple years. You know, you're going to at least have, if you got hurt or something like that,

you gives yourself an excuse. You know, you already got those narratives that you're going to hold in your back pocket as a new head coach. Yeah, the picks are troublesome. The talent, everything around them is troublesome. They're going to get their picks back next year. They have a better cap situation than the Falcons do at this point in time. So they can do some stuff if you're in, yeah, much better.

But if they, there's a couple troublesome contracts, but they can do stuff. Tunsel is good. He has the issues. He had a ton of penalties last year. He still just has some stupid plays, it seems like. But he is a good left tackle. And that's a very hard to find out. I think he's really coming to his own this year.

I think this is the type of guy that they traded for. Yes. That's a good way to put it. He's, he's at what you, what do you want? to be for that kind of trade. And he's a legit starting left tackle that you don't have to give help to. There's like four guys like that in the league that you don't have to against a bona fide pass rusher that you don't have to give help to.

Will Fowler is a solid piece. I think he's more just a super role player than a star. So they still need weapons. But I just really do think they got they got Deshaun Watson. And you can just you have a path from there is you can decide what you want to do going from there. I think it just worked that we're not even talk about the defense because that's a whole another thing.

We don't know what JJ is doing at his age, but it's... I think you're going too far here. I think that's... You do. Because I wouldn't even be concerned with the current roster.

Yeah, because it would be so much retooling. Yeah. It's whoever comes in, it's just going to be a... So I'm getting even deeper here. The first and second round pick, that's a problem. By 2022,

you can move on from essentially every single move that Bill O'Brien made. So the Randall Cobb contract, Whitney Merciless, deals like that, which are horrendous. is, you can get out of those after next season. So in 2022, you can essentially be sitting there with Deshaun Watson, Larammy Tonsel,

Zach Cunningham, Nick Martin, and nothing else. You're looking at $100 million in cap space and a core that's essentially comprised of a 26-year-old Deshaun Watson and a 26, 27-year-old elite left tackle, and you're building from there. So the resources don't even concern me. The only thing that concerns me is the way that the franchise is, the way that the franchise guys is set up because in Atlanta, we'll see what the power structure eventually looks like. They need a new GM the same way they do in Houston.

But in Houston, Jack Easterby is still there. And he's a guy that made a lot of these football decisions with Bill O'Brien. We'll see what happens with Brandon Cooks. They can easily move on from him next year if they want to, but they traded a second round pick for him and Easterby had a hand in doing that. Do they want to do that? So what kind of lingering effects from this previous regime are still there for the GM and head coach that eventually take these jobs?

I think that is the biggest question. When it comes to resources, resources don't really concern me because you're going to have a ton of cap space in two years. You're without one drafts worth of picks. Okay. But you have Deshaun Watson. You have Laramie Mitzel. You figure it out later.

That's why I tend to agree with you on the Texans, just because I do think that Watson is just that force you can build around. He's going to be that pillar at the middle of all of this. If you look at Atlanta, there are so many more questions about the direction of the team. And that's the biggest question to me. So what's the dynamic going to be like with the general manager? That's a whole big issue.

Is it going to be where the coach comes in essentially gets to help pick the GM like it was in San Francisco with John Lynch and Kyle Shanahan? I think that's a good way to do it. We don't know. But what happens with Matt Ryan is the biggest question. Because Matt Ryan's 35. He's 10 years older than Deshawn Watson. Matt Ryan is a $41 million cap hit next year.

it's $50 million in dead money. So you can't really move on from Matt Ryan very easily. I'm sure that there's a way they could figure something out, but it's going to be difficult to do, especially when you consider some of the other deals they've handed out. They have $203 million in liabilities already next season. This is a team that pushed all of its chips in, restructuring Ryan's deal, borrowing from it, borrowing from it,

paying Julio Jones, paying Grady Jarrett. This is a team that was up against the cap for the last several years, hoping to maximize this version of their window. Now that it's gone, you're kind of sitting here asking how we pick up the pieces. And I don't know the answer to that. So even if you watch this year's Falcons and think, oh, man, bringing a new coach, I mean, Rahim Morris is doing a fine job. But you bring in a new regime.

You try to figure this out. Matt Ryan's still playing an extremely high level. You got Julio. You have some young offensive linemen. Can you tinker and get where you want to go? The answer might be yes. but I just think if I was trying to come in and run my show, I would prefer coming in and having the chance within two years

to have Deshawn Watson, Laramie Tunsel and an entirely blank slate rather than having to take on this ready-made but expensive team that exists in Atlanta, even if some of the pieces of that expensive team are attractive. Yeah, you with the Texans, you're getting two of the hardest positions to find and they're young, they're entering your primes when you're getting there, and they're on their contract. So you got a built-in window that you can work with. I agree with you.

I think just the Texans in a couple years' time, it's just you have the hardest thing to find and you have a star version of it. It's not just a good starting quarterback. It's a star. It's what you want. It's the unicorn. It's the hardest thing to find. It's pro sports.

It's a star starting quarterback. And you got it. And he's great. And he's awesome. And he's what you build a team around. and just a whole identity around. And that's the reshifting that they can do. And just with the Falcons and stuff, too, it's you can get creative with it.

You can do different things. There's different paths, but there's question marks with those paths. And even the contracts that they have out around the new core, it's like, how good is that new core or what they have out there already? Yeah. Well, you have enough tackle in a quarterback in Atlanta, too, but they're older. But it's, and you have much less flexibility outside of those two positions. So, yes.

I think that both are attractive. jobs. I think that both have a quarterback and just talent period that you don't often see with jobs that come open. But this is, to me, this isn't the Jets job where you're really starting over and you have to find talent. In both of these scenarios, you already have talent. It's just a matter of how you can build with that talent and how much flexibility you have outside of that talent. And I just believe there's much more of it in Houston than there is in Atlanta right now. Even if there are questions about the organizational structure and everything else and who's going to run that team, all that stuff.

The same goes in Atlanta. I think that Arthur Blank has done a much better job putting people in place to run the Falcons than the McNairs have in Houston. I mean, that's a different conversation. But I do think that both of those teams are going to be looking for general managers are going to have structures in place that weren't there six months ago. And I think you have to take that into consideration when you're a head coach. And the wild car, too, is what?

What is, even though the Falcons won and they're playing more competitive as if they do bottom out this season and they do let injuries happen, you know, where older guys are sitting out and stuff like that where they're just like, whatever, we're going for youth or whatever they want to do. And they want a quasi-tank. It's like, that can be a whole new wild card into the equation. It's like, hey, if we have a top five pick, Zach Wilson's looking good too. That might be three quarterbacks that we can go after that, you know, that's, you know, that are legit guys that we can build around too in Atlanta. So that's another, you know, variable in this equation. Lots to consider. All right, buddy.

Lots to consider. That's all we got for tonight. Really appreciate you guys listening. Please do me a favor. Please go rate and review the show on your podcast platform of choice. I would sincerely appreciate it. Please sign up for the athletic. We're doing a $1 a week promotion right now.

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We have a very fun show for coming for you. Some really fun guests lined up. An old friend of mine who I've done a lot of podcasting with. We're back on the show. I'm really looking forward to it. Until then, really appreciate you guys listening to The Athletic Football Show. We'll talk to you later. This was the Athletic Football Show.