The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Lamar Jackson flips past the Chiefs, the Cowboys edge the Chargers, Kyler Murray carries the Cardinals & more with Nate Tice

Episode Date: September 20, 2021

Robert Mays and Nate Tice bring you all the week 2 headlines as Lamar Jackson finally edges Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs, the Cowboys and Dak Prescott barely scrape by Justin Herbert and the Los Angeles Chargers, Sam Darnold continues to impress in Carolina, Zach Wilson and Trevor Lawrence do the opposite after a few weeks and Who Gets the Belt for week 2? All that and much more postgame reaction on The Athletic Football Show. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays. Joining me tonight. It's my good friend Nate Tice. Nate, how you doing, buddy? I'm doing great. You know, there's a line that, like, especially when guys get hurt or kind of like,

you might miss a couple days with like an angle injury, that it's, it takes two weeks to get back in shape and two days, two days to get out of it. I believe it because now I'm like, all right, we're hitting week two. So it's like, all right, I've been getting my C legs back under me. and today went a little better than last week watching the games. Today was a lot in several different ways. One, the Justin Fields experience, which we will get to a little bit later in the show. I wasn't emotionally prepared for that to happen today, for me to have to wade into the Justin Fields era, but it did happen.

Second of all, starting at about 4 p.m. Eastern today, just all hell broke. I mean, the second half of those late slate games, there seems to be a touchdown every two seconds. an inexplicable play for both good and bad reasons that started in the second half of those games and just went all through the Sunday night game. It was a nonstop thrill ride starting at about 3 30, probably about 4.30 my time, probably about half time of those games. So that's what we're going to start with. For the first 15 today, we're going to get into all of the craziness that happened, starting in the afternoon slate and going all the way through the end of Sunday night. I don't even know where you want to start.

I guess we have to start with the Sunday night game. I mean, it seemed like the Ravens were dead in the water at one point in the second half. They were down by 11. It just felt like they didn't have it, which wouldn't be surprising, right? Their defense was so banged up. They're playing against the Chiefs. It's like, all right, you know, maybe this isn't the Ravens' night. Maybe this isn't the Ravens year.

And then somehow, some way, Lamar puts up about 380 total yards, has over 100 on the ground. they make enough plays on defense and somehow the Ravens are one and one and I really don't know what to make of it. We were texting. You know, we always text before the show. I usually prep for the during the Sunday night game. I think I had my head down watching another game and just going through to condensed game, all that stuff. And also, I looked back up and I was like, the Ravens were in it. Like my emotions were ready to like reset because I've already kind of gone like, hey, the Ravens are, they're smart.

They know it's a long season. So, okay, if they lose, hey, we'll reconfigure some stuff. things aren't going great. I think a couple other guys got hurt today. So it's like also I look back up and it's like Lamar's doing a flip into the end zone. And it's like, oh, well, they're okay. I guess the ravens are still in it. They didn't care that they don't have any runnybacks.

They're just like we have Lamar, let's just use him every single snap of the ball. Why not? Because if he looks like that, it looks great. I mean, obviously in the second half, they leaned on him as a runner in a huge way, taking advantage of a banged up chiefs linebacker group. I mean, you have backup linebackers in there. You have young linebackers in there. And it was a problem.

problem. So Lamar, and just everything they do, a lot of trap plays, a lot of counters, a lot of moving pieces, tons of eye candy and Lamar Jackson running the ball. And that was enough for the Ravens to sustain offense combined with just a few scattered jump passes and one just like RPO slant to Marquise Brown and just cobbling together offense in a way that we've gotten used to with the Ravens. And even if it doesn't represent any sort of evolution from what we want to see from them, sometimes Lamar Jackson is just enough. Sometimes what he is and everything that comes in that package is just enough. And that's exactly what tonight ended up being.

It's one of those where you go, oh yeah, he won the MVP two years ago. Yes. It was a super young age. And like we were all just enthralled about what he could do. And it's like he can take over any game. I mean,

any possible game. And especially this going into this game and privately I, I had maybe a player prop on Lamar's over rushing yards is that against, I guess a heavy pressure team like this, like the Chiefs, is that their backs are going to be turned because they're just trying to wall off, wall off inside out with the defenders,

trying to cover everybody. So when that happens, Lamar is going to have so many running lanes. It's the aggression, rather than attacking downfield with the throw, it's attacking with his legs and really taking advantage of how aggressive the defense is going to be. But like just everything they did,

even going for it on fourth down, it was just like they put the game. You could feel like it was like the Ravens really, that everybody wants. every NFL game, but like this one was just like you could tell this was like a real passion game for them, like a real kind of franchise game for them, which is so cool. And then on the other side, like the chiefs are the chiefs, they're going to be in so many of these games. When you got that kind of target on your back like them and the bucks are going to have, everyone's going to bring

their best and everybody's going to treat your game like a Super Bowl. It's like Alabama playing in the SEC, you know. And so that's just that's just the deal. We're going to just see so many of these games there just like that. And it's fun. It's fun seeing fireworks, fun seeing haymakers getting thrown at crazy plays and stars being stars like Lamar Mahomes. I love the moment at the end where you can just, it was cool seeing it live because I noticed it live when they flashed a hardball on the sideline and you can just see him saying, Lamar, do you want to go for this? And we didn't see Lamar's reaction. Obviously, I think he's told Michelle Defoya, I said, hell yes, I want to go for it. And that was enough. And it was similar

to that play against Seattle a couple years ago that became famous where you have Harbaugh asking his quarterback what he wants to do. Lamar's saying, hell yeah, we're going for it. Why the hell wouldn't we go for it? They pick it up, they win the game. And, you know, I think that this team has a tough road. With all the injuries they've had to deal with, and with all the injuries they're going to continue to deal with,

it's going to be difficult for them to keep pace in the AFC. But let's say, you know, they can get a couple of these where Lamar is enough and they make enough plays on defense and they get a little bit healthier. You know, that's the hope, is that you can hang on long enough where if we can just get right by the end of the season, if there's a better version of us down the road, can we sneak into the playoffs?

I think that has to be what the Ravens are shooting for. That's exactly it. They're just trying to be feisty enough on defense. And I mean, they had the talent to do it. Justin Mada Bukia. Hey, hey, had a nice little standout game. And yeah, good old Mammadook, he came up. But it's just those, like going for it on fourth and one,

Ben Baldwin's got the, you know, go for it kind of Ben Baldwin bot that on Twitter that you can see. And it was just an 18% advantage, like win probability to go for it right there. And when you are going to try and win this way, win this way, like you just said, like probably having a really feisty defense. And then Lamar being Lamar, hopefully a role player like a Sammy Watkins or somebody else steps up. Marquise Brown tonight did a couple nice things. But hopefully one of those guys steps up. But you need these types of plays going for going for two a whole bunch of times, creating extra chances.

Like the Eagles on their Super Bowl run, that's how you create those extra chances is just being super. super aggressive and just leaving it up saying like, hey, we might get stopped a couple times, like those two two pointers they had. But if we go for it on a fourth down, we're good enough. Lamar is good enough. We have enough plays that we can create more chances and create our own luck and just maybe take every sort of advantage they could possibly have going with it. And you saw it tonight. All right. Let's get into those afternoon games. Again, I don't really know where you want to start here. Let's start with the Cowboys and the Chargers. Good. just the charger is another heartbreaker.

I mean, just like an absolute heartbreaker. 99 yards of penalties, missed field goals, two touchdowns called back. I mean, it's one of those things where I'm starting to get a little bit concerned about their early down efficiency. If you look at the numbers and they still struggled so much on early downs, the early down rushing 41% success rate on early down carries. They're just getting in third and long way too often and asking their quarterback to make god level plays of which he made a couple today by the way the whole shot down the right

side line is i just don't i can't i sat there and thought about it like really thought about it for like five minutes after it happened like it's one of the most ridiculous throws i can remember that throw 25 yards down the sideline is an impressive play let alone 50 yards in the air across the field like i just don't even the deep E.Bs probably thought it was dead. There's no way they thought that ball was coming to that spot. Yeah, that's the thing. They have landmarks too. So they're like, oh, I'm good. I can start trailing a little bit. Come stuff. Maybe there's something behind me that I have to check out. I mean, you knew it was a good throw. Not even just me and you freaking out. But when the noise Tony Romo made what happened here, he was like, oh, like it's such a good throw throw.

And I mean, the one before he, I think you tweeted it too, like the one right before that when you, oh, yeah. And he threw back or he was scrambled drill and he threw back. And it was just. Naturally, it was called back. Yeah. Of course. That's just how it goes. Even when the whole shot hit, I was just like, oh, something bad had to happen. Like maybe, you know, it was an illegal formation or some sort.

But that's, that's such a great point about the early down efficiency. That was actually one of my, my notes is kind of just the negative side is as much as I like Austin Echler and as much as I like kind of what the chargers are trying to do with their receivers and everything. And as far as being an 11 personnel and formationally is I think some of the run game gets kind of limited. Just Echler being a lighter body more about awesome. some scat back type, which is great from some cases, the choice routes and everything underneath. But in other cases where you just kind of need that three yards in a cloud of dust, it's like, he's not just the best for that. And it's, it's fine.

Like you can get around that, but it just, it limits you. It really does. But I mean, just it was a great performance by, I mean, Herbert just does some of that stuff. Oh, by the way, all those now throws and, and, and smokes, like a now throws like a no step slant or a one step slant. Oh my God, Saints offense 101. one. Like he hit the smoke to Mike Williams for a touchdown, which is the best thing ever. It's just just pitch it out there.

Like Charlie Weiss, everyone thought was an offensive genius at Notre Dame because they just did that to Jeff Samarja over and over and over. And he was just like, take a smoker out like 30 yards for a touchdown. But it's it's the best. You just, the read is the simplest thing ever. Is the corner off? Yeah. Right.

Fling it out there. I was wondering, is that like, is that an RPO? That's a call run and he just throws it out there. It is. It's now what we call an RPO. So in my head, bubbles. a flat, a smoke or a now throw, to me, it's called a packaged play. Mixer, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's an advantage throw. But if you called an RPO, I would not like, you know, wouldn't bad by the same concept. The Packers were running those, a ton of those, like, before we were talking about RPO's in the NFL. I mean, that was before that term to become popular. That's exactly how we refer to it. Farms are on those nows all the time. And everyone, now everyone's like, oh, my God, look at that RPO. It's like, Farve was doing that, like, 05 to Donald Driver on accident.

Like, it's just because he made stuff up. we can easily make jokes about the cursed Chargers team and everything that went wrong today and all those little tiny things. I think today was a reminder that for as exciting as the Chargers are in some capacities, this is still a team that has a little bit of a waste to go. And beyond their first down efficiency, and I think missing Brian Belaga, I think you saw some of the issues that having Storm Norton in there presents. I when that happened last week, Storm Norton is just like the perfect name for a swing tackle. I just chuckled when you said the name. I was like, it's such a creative.

Yeah, Madden generated name. When that happened last week and Buago went down, which at this point, unfortunately, you can probably predict, right? He's had a lot of trouble staying on the field. I was wondering if they might be better served to move Matt Filer to right tackle and put Brendan Hymas or whoever one of their backup interior alignment is. Typically, I hate that. Typically, that's the last thing I would want a team to do is to start moving pieces around. but when you have a guy who's proven to be a capable tackle,

and you have pieces of interior line depth, and hi-miss is a rookie in a fifth-round pick, and I understand that, but he looked okay in the preseason. It almost feels like their best five might include Matt Filer at right tackle. They didn't end up doing that. I think it hurt them at times today. But I think you're starting to see some of the cracks.

Like, they'll be okay in the long run. They're exciting. They have a little bit of a ways to go. The other element of that that I thought about, their run defense, you could see some of the issues. shoes today. Jerry Tilleri on that side was just getting blown off the ball consistently. Zach Martin is a Hall of Fame player. That's going to happen every once in a while. But this type of defense and the way that they want to play, you need guys that can eat up blocks

up front. And they only had one off season to reshape and think about what they wanted this front to be like. And that was one of the questions coming in. Do they have the bodies to play like this in the front. Today they struggled, and I think one of the reasons that they struggled, is the Cowboys started giving the ball to their best running back. I mean, Tony Pollard, that element of their offense and that ability, when they're going to take away big plays, what do we have? You saw the answer today. Like, they could run the ball on this team. They did it efficiently. Pollard had 109 yards on 13 carries. He has a lot of juice whenever they hand him the ball. They have elements and package.

where he's on the field with Zeke. I mean, I just think that this was another example today, like last week when they lost to the bucks, of their offense just being able to find stuff when they need to find stuff. And I have faith that they're going to be able to get there. It's a long season. This wasn't the most impressive performance ever.

You scored 20 points. But I really do have a lot of belief in what this offense can be over the course of the year. Their defense just needs to make a couple plays here and there. Trayvon Diggs looks like a real, real player. He was in our list for, breakout players possibly this year. And if he's going to do that, and

Micah Parsons is going to give them something with DeMarcus Lawrence out in an NFC East where Washington's defense isn't playing very well, who knows what Philly is, I still think that this Cowboys team and what they have on offense gives them the best chance in that division. Completely agree. Just the usage of personnel

right in the first drive, it was kind of fun, like I was talking about the Friday show. And it was like, oh, the two things we noticed were 12 personnel and pony personnel. And it was like the first drive was just 12 and pony like just over and over and over and I was like yeah there we go but it it was great I mean I loved that after last week doing the kind of side-to-side dink and dunk or to replace the run game they kind of attack they attack the chargers defense in a completely different manner exactly that's what a good offense does even if you only score 20 points

and speak real quick with the charger stuff is that was our concern too was that it was that it was joey bosa and the bow sets up front and that was just that was it and it's also a side like it's such a great point you're talking about the lighter box and the bodies needed up front, going from that kind of quote unquote Seattle system where it's ears pinned back and go and you're more. And that's exactly what Hillary wasn't coming out, right? He was a penetrator. And when you got all those guys, that transition can be difficult. You need more of the brawler, brawler types that could just really muck it up and stuff.

But yeah, but speaking of the Cowboys offense, which is just, it was so cool just seeing the mix and matching of personnel's and formations they were using. And I mean, they had CD in the backfield in like zero or one, oh, one personnel, which is awesome. Rip it off 12-yard runs on first down. It was, I know. I know. It was just the cool stuff.

And the CD, like the little Hail Mary, they almost scored a little option pitch. It was like like a rugby play. I mean, all the stuff. It was just really, it was one of those games where everything else that happened with the Cowboys made me feel better about them.

And it wasn't like a hard loss for the Chargers in the sense where it was like, oh man, they can't win a game. Wow, we got way too ahead of ourselves. It was more like, hey, they hung up with them.

Cowboys' offense is not easy to hang with. And they did. Sante Samuel had a great game. And, uh, but I, I just really, really liked just what the Cowboys had done these last two games and what Calamore has really shown. Like he's, he's doing some creative stuff and Dak is executing it like to perfection right now. He had a couple of blemishes today, but he still had some great, great throws and great, just his eyes are just so amazing. And I can't wait to watch that stuff on film. Vikings Cardinals. We're in the running here for craziest game of the weekend. I mean,

this game had everything. This game was a Stefan sketch. I mean, it had Nick, Nick, Nick, touchdowns, spin around touchdowns, Kyler 14 yards in the backfield, throwing up balls against cover zero. I mean, it was, I don't even know what to make of this game. I mean, I'm going to have to go back and watch to kind of get some nuance as to what actually happened and how he arrived at this final score. I saw all the big plays, obviously, but it's still, I have no idea what the Cardinals are.

Like, last week, they're shutting down Derek Henry. This week, they're getting gashed on the ground for half the game by Dalvin Cook. I mean, Kyler finished 20. of 36 for 400 yards today. But I still don't know if the Cardinals passing game is good. There are so many plays where it's just, hey, let's roll the ball out and let's, our guys are just better than your guys. It's so funny, that seems to be their plan offensively.

It's like, all right, our quarterback is immensely talented in a way that no one else is, good luck planning for all the stuff he can do. Every single one of those short completions that we've seen in this offense over the last two years, look a shitload better, go into Rondale Moore than they did go into Larry Fitzgerald. I mean, that play before the half where Prater kicked the 62-yard field goal, they threw the ball to Rondell Moore. He caught it at his own 38-yard line, essentially on the hash, and then went up the sideline, cut back inside, cut back outside, and managed to get out of bounds on the other, on the

mine of the plus 38 with two seconds left everything about that play should not have worked but he's making that stuff happen it just they sometimes even if we don't love the schematics of it all the one play that sticks out to me i was like oh that's kind of cool they hit a rpo where they fake the bubble and then they threw the slant back to geandre hopkins josh jones the right tackle was five yards downfield he's like i said that to somebody i can't believe you just said that i took a screen grab of that i go he's like six yards upfield he looks he looks he looks like a like a receiver sitting there. Like, at the hash, it's ridiculous.

And so there aren't that many players we're just like, oh, that was cool. Like, that's really making the game easy on their guys. But when you have these players that are just explosive plays waiting to happen, that's what ended up going down. I mean, the way that Kyle was playing, we'll get to him in a little bit. I mean, there is nobody more exciting over the first two weeks of the NFL than the way that Kyle Murray has played. But other than that, it's like, I don't, I really don't know what to make of this team.

I think that over the course of the season, we're going to have a much better understanding of what they are. Right now, that is incredibly murky to me. It still is. I know. Nothing's really changed that much, like, just that their protections are a little more sound with Roddy Hudson. That's like, that's it. Like, you watch this stuff and even just the Vikings were just sitting in the hook areas, just waiting. Like, that's where the pick six happened.

It was just that all the linebackers and safeties were just ready for them to attack that seven to 12 yard area. that by the hash is because that's how much they just throw to that, throw to that, throw to that, throw to that and they're squatting on stuff. Kyler had a completion percentage over expected of 14.6 today. That's insane. That's all you need to know. That's a perfect distillation of what he did today. I know.

It's because nothing, nothing was really, they don't make anything easy for him. Like it's like some stuff's great where it's like the guy is wide open. It's like, oh, that whiteboard play looked great on actually on the field. But there are so many of those that you could just tell the 1A that they had. circled star that's going to be wide open when they practiced it all week is not wide open. And then Kyle just goes, ah, fuck it. It just starts and bricks contain. It just if he plays like this, it does it for 17 weeks, 18 weeks.

Yeah, go for it. It's awesome. But it's kind of more of the same, which is still fun to watch, though. Just think about all his big plays. The first touchdown was third and 10. He spun around in the pocket. He literally spun all the way around, had to escape, and then threw the ball to a sliding DeAndre Hopkins in the back corner of the end zone.

his rushing touchdown is just him taken off after that crazy Rondale Moore fumble that wasn't a fumble like that again this game had everything and then the fourth and five play is a truly insane play like if you I took a picture of it I thought it was a touchdown

but it was just a game winning play that game that play sealed the game him making that throw they have two guys in the agap it's Harrison Smith and Eric Kendrick's lined up in the A gap they do not have enough people to block them he knows this at the snap he starts backpedaling as fast as he can backpedal and just throws the ball off of his back foot.

If you look at the still image of that, he is 14 yards from the line of scrimmage when that ball leaves his hand. And it's a completion and it seals the game for them. And it's just, that's just him. That's just the quarterback making a play. The fact that you could see the Vikings dialing it up and then as soon as Kyle got it caught it and he started backing up and it's like, we've seen this before now. He keeps doing this week after week after week.

You know, we talk about how like some defenses make the quarterback and offense coordinator always have to be right. They're like saying, hey, your protection has to be right. Kyler does that for defense coordinators. How good can you, how well can you tackle? Like how well, how good is your contain and blitzing lanes? Like, you know, how long could you do a scramble drill for it? It's like he makes you just do your fundamental. It's like to the extremist extent because if you don't do it, it's just like you're screwed and he hits a play like that.

Like even Harrison Smith on it, like when he's rushing, you can tell he's like, he's going to juke me. Like he like sprits through the A gap and he slows down because he's like there's no way he's going to keep backpedaling. Like he has to break one direction. And then he's like, oh, this MFer really does. It's just going to back pedal 15 yards and launch it. And that's what he did. He threw the grenade. I do want to talk to too about on the other side of the ball is the Vikings run game.

It's so much fun to watch today. Like Dalvin Cook finished 22 carries, 131 yards, six yards of carry. none of he had no rush longer in 16 yards that's incredible that's exactly what you want just meandering all the way down i mean just chunk after chunk after chunk like they were getting into light personnel the cardinals switched they almost like platoon zaven collins and isaiah simmons based on run downs and pass downs they were getting into 11 personnel so isaiah simmons had to be on the field and then they're just messing with them like they're just running like split zone stuff and like Isaiah simmons just going every which way and like it was it was

They had a plan and it worked to perfection in the run game. And it's, I mean, I couldn't believe that field goal too, that 62 yarder that would have been good for like 70. Like Lane Kiffin, remember when he kicked with Sebastian Janikowski from. Oh, yeah. It would have been good from there. Like Lane Kiffin needed, needed Prater to kick that field goal they did from the opposite, opposite like 20 he did a few years ago with Janikowski. I want to ask you, are the card, if you played a pickup football game and you just got whatever the teams were, the Cardinals would be the second best team after the Chiefs, right?

Like just an offense, like the pickup offense. That's essentially what they are. They are. It's pretty much just. It's DeAndre Hawkins winning ice arounds. Like it's Rodel Moore making stuff happen with the ball in his hands. And it's funny because when they put this team together, that this was clearly the vision,

I think it's almost too pure a version of the vision that they had. They almost wished it wasn't exactly like this. Again, AJ Green making plays too. but that one throw to AJ Green on the right sideline again is just Oh, it's gorgeous. A legitimately perfect play by the quarterback. I mean, he's doing some ridiculous stuff right now. All right.

Yeah. Last game from that late slate. Again, I have no idea what the Seahawks and the Titans are. Like, the Titans offense looked awful again for half of the game. And then Derek Henry over the course of the second half rips off like four ridiculous runs, a 60-yard run that I still don't understand what the Seahawks were doing on that play. they had two tight ends to that side and A.J. Brown motion down. It felt like they were just outnumbered on that side. And it left Henry one-on-one with the corner. We all know how that goes. Julio had a big game. And there are a few plays just broken coverages by the Titans defense that still don't make any sense.

I mean, it just, but then again, at the end, in the second half, the Seahawks couldn't string enough plays together. I mean, it's, they made enough stop. So again, just one of those games, I'm going to have to go back and watch again to truly grasp all. the nuances of what happened. It was just that afternoon slate, it just felt like a wave of ridiculousness washing over me three and a half hours. I think all at one time there was a game winning drive happening all at the exact same time. Like after every game seemed like they're in a different state. Also, it was like, oh my God, everybody is like driving down. It was DAC at one, you know, and Santa Hill and the other.

The thing I noticed with the Titans was they finally did get to those inbreakers with Julio and AJ Brown. Yes. Yes. They finally got to them. and and it looked great. And honestly, the bomb to Julio was like a change up,

which was really cool. They, because on that, the play action that the Titans loved around is just hard play action, dig in a corner. And it's just an easy read for Tanna Hill. He just goes corner across the field. And what they did was they had, they hit it once to AJ Brown.

Then later in the drive, they went, Julio acted like he's around the corner. He leans into it and then he just runs the post. And then Tana Hill put the ball up beautifully. Julio had laid eyes and laid hands on it, which I actually wasn't thinking he was going to look. Like it was like,

Julio was just booking it. And then finally at the last second he looked and caught it, which was, I mean, he acted like, I mean, that's Julio Jones. I,

I'm shocked. He's not shocked. Of course, that he can do that. But it's like, those changeups started coming in. They did that at least four times. The screen game was coming from that because they would do the hard play action and then they'd be able to dip it back right

over to Henry. They were able to check it down. So they, they had a friendly game script, but they kind of just stuck to what they did. The run game, like they varied some stuff up. I'm going to talk about one of the plays late.

Actually, the one you were just talking about, the Henry long touchdown. But also they ran pinpole. They were in power. They weren't just running outside zone. So they had a good game plan. It just took them a while to get to it. It's a really,

to really actually take advantage of what happened. But like you said, I have no idea what these teams are because it's like even with the Seahawks, it looked like they're going to blow them out and they lost. It was just, it was weird. It was a weird game. By the end of the game, it felt like we were watching a version of the Titans offense we'd seen over the last couple years. And it's not just because they were being successful.

There was the same sort of stuff that we saw. saw last season when they needed to protect their tackles the same way they need to right now. I mean, they got Ty San Bril on one side, they got Cuisinburne in the other side. It's the same situation they ran into a year ago. So it looked again, my concern coming into the season, was this going to be like a cheap knockoff of those teams? And at times today, it did. For the second straight week, they just refused to block someone on a boot and had a debilitating sack fumble as a result of it. And it made no sense because they had both tight ends sealing off the back side on the boot. It was like, all right, we left that as a naked last week, not doing that

again after the Chandler Jones play. Now, let's actually put some guys over there for whatever reason doesn't work. They just let, 98, who's named my camera, I can remember, Alt Robinson. They just let Alton Robinson through for a sack fumble. Later in the game, though, they're running a couple of those just max protect, straight back play actions that we're used to with too tight on staying in there, and it looked exactly what we had seen what they, it looked exactly what they were doing last year. And it was like, all right, this is just, just do the same stuff. Like, you need, it was working. You need variations of it, but I have seven guys in protection, have Julio Jones and

A.J. Brown. And like, this is going to be okay. Like, just run like glances and posts and just let those guys be what they are. And it felt like they finally started to settle back into that a little bit today. Who knows what the long term health of that is going to be. But that was encouraging. That locket talks. I'm confused. It was the exact same situation as what happened when it against Indianapolis last week, where it looked like they're in some sort of like two deep coverage where he has a two way go on the safety with nobody touching him. And it was the exact same end result, which I just don't understand why teams continue to do that against this team. I think they just struggled to pass it off because it's just one guy probably getting too excited. Another guy can't rally because they have to slingshot. The pick Rogers had last week, the real. bombs away one that he just chucked it up there and the guy at the corner rallied all the way back. I want to say defensive guys called that slingshotting. And I think a lot of those guys are just not doing it.

And I don't think you'd expect much out of the Titans defense this season as far as top tier schematic game planning and top tier talent across the board. Jeffrey Simmons did play well today. But it's that's just what this team is. It's almost like a team, just a total chaotic team week and week out where it's going to like there's going to be some really cool stuff and there's going to be some stuff that you're just like what was that like the titans did a couple of times it was pretty cool was um because the see ox are so aggressive with their safeties is they blocked the tight end and the safety trigger or he went to the hole and then they released the tie down like a late leak almost like a upfield screen they hit that a couple times. I was like oh that was pretty cool like kind of little nifty. I have no idea if it was planned or if it was just like oh he's wide open. I hit him like you never know with that stuff but it happened twice and I was like oh that's pretty cool. I was like oh that's pretty cool. I was like oh that's pretty cool. I'm like. I was like oh, that's pretty cool. pretty cool. But Seahawks' offense, though, they did, like we talked about this week, was that they're leaning into stuff for us does well, which is good. You know, the heavy play action

stuff, the naked's. I saw on two minutes, they ran true mirrored concepts where it's the same concept on both sides. And I was like, yeah, there you go. And everything was outside. Don't make them read over the middle. Yeah. But then end of the game, you know, some stuff happened. That should have been a safety, by the way, at the, a walkoff safety. You were very excited about the potential of a walk off safety. Oh my God. It's like a walk off walk in baseball, like where it's basis loaded and someone walks and it walks in the winning run. That's like my favorite. But it's like, yeah, it could have been that walk off safety is you don't get many of those. It's a very rare occurrence. I would have loved it. All right. Let's move on to a couple of the things that really grabbed our attention today. Gentlemen, you have my curiosity. Now you have my attention. All right. Let's start with the Raiders offense. For the second straight week, the Raiders put together a pretty damn good performance. Derek Carr averaged 0.49 EPA per dropback today. Just for context, that's about twice with the best quarterbacks in the league averaged over the course of the entire 2020 season. This team consistently does a lot of really interesting

things. I mean, the play that really sticks out to me today, the one that just, I think, is a perfect example of how they do throw little tiny tweaks on stuff. It was, I can't remember exactly what the down and distance was. I'm looking through my notes. It was a seven, it was third nine, there was seven, ten left in the third quarter. They were in empty, which they did a lot today. A lot of empty today, which, which, but it was, the way they do it is so interesting. And I want to get into that because they're doing it out of like heavy personnel. And they're, they're changing it up. And it was interesting because the Steelers today for the most part, I'd have to go back and look at all the plays, were matching their 12 personnel with nickel because they knew that they

wanted to throw when they were in 12 personnel. Still didn't matter. They still threw the ball extremely well with multiple tight ends on the field, which we'll get into why. But my favorite play today, again, I think is very emblematic. At third nine, they're in empty. Every single receiver on the field ran a stutter go. Like, ran a stutter. And so every single receiver went to the marker essentially, stuttered at the marker, and then took it vertically. He threw it to Renfro, but all five guys did it at the same time. It was like watching.

like synchronized swimming. It was beautiful and it worked. And it's like that this team is a really good for verticals team. Like they get to it in a lot of different ways. And this is just one more wrinkle. There are 10 more examples we could use in this game. But I think that Gruden has done a consistently good job creating and designing this offense over the last couple years.

And I think that this is the best version of it that I can remember seeing, the one that we're getting to see over the last couple weeks. Yeah. And the point about them being in base, or heavier personnel's and going empty, it keeps the defenses like basic. If you keep them a base personnel or like they may be big nickel today, like the bills last week going against the Steelers defense and going with so much empty,

so much empty, they're all in zero personnel, 10 personnel, 11 personnel. So they just match and sub and defenses love their exotic looks of subpersonnel out of nickel and die. They love being able to twist guys up and move guys around. When you give them a base, they get a lot more vanilla. It's just their day one.

day two install. And that's the advantage the Raiders have week in, week out. It's an advantage I used to have at Wisconsin, or not I, but the Wisconsin Badgers as a program used to have. And at Pitt was all these teams are going spread, spread, spread. And then you just line up in 21, 12, and 22 personnel, all these tight ends and fullbacks. And teams are just like, we've never practiced against this. We've practiced against all 10 personnel every single day. We don't know how to take on a fullback. And that's kind of what the Raiders advantage is every week is. We have Darren, Waller who's a matchup issue on anybody we have Henry Ruggs who's like a super role player taking the top off and all that which was oh my god I've never seen Derek throw a ball further than he did

yeah to Henry Ruggs say oh my god he let that one go and maybe some three rivers wind got got behind him but it is but like just those kind of dressing up the four verts and when like they I'm glad you brought up the fourverts because they got to one out of 13 personnel and I I four verts you can do out three by one that's a staple one but two by two which is a mirrored concept actually is another way to do it. But what I've always found is if you just went 11 personnel two by two formation and just ran for averts, defense is just passed it off like it's nothing. You have to dress it up with a motion or a funky personnel grouping. And that's what they, that's what he's doing. And you're just making it just, it's not reinventing the wheel. It's just

cute. I was going to say cuter looks. But it's kind of, I mean, when we compliment what the saints do, this is what they're doing. That's exactly right. This is it. Formation and personnel advantages with staple concepts. And that's what it's really cool to watch when a team goes empty out of heavy personnel. And on the next nap, they're four by one concept. On the next nap, they're just running up your ass. Like it's, it's pretty cool to watch a team do that, doing some kind of creative stuff out of those big personnel groupings.

I mean, just, and even it reminds me also in a lot of ways with the Patriots did a couple years ago where they do a lot of empty out of those heavier personnel sets just because it dictates coverage immediately. It's like, if I have the running back split out to the left here and you're doing this a certain way, I know what I have. I mean, they do a great job of just garnering information with the way that they line up. The Foster Moreau touchdown to me is a perfect example. They have two tight ends on the field.

Both of the tight ends are to the left side. A lot of teams are doing this, by the way. Tons are, tons of teams are running that hip slot where they have the two tight ends in the same side. We talked about it with the Cowboys last week. It's a way to give your quarterback information. So they have both of the tight ends on that side. All three receivers on the right side. So all the corners are on that side.

Joe Sherbert is literally the most, the furthest. outside defender on that side. So like, all right, we have man coverage. And they threw a corner route to Foster Morrow instantly out of that set for a touchdown. And it just, it allows... Great ball, too. Really good ball.

Really good ball. But it allows Derek Carr to play. He already is really smart. Like, we know this. He's a very, very cerebral, intelligent quarterback who has a very good handle on all the details of this offense. And when you're giving him the answers, before the play even starts, it allows him to play even faster.

And when you combine that with the players that they have, like the amount of choice routes they run with Renfro and Waller and just like scheming them up where it's like, all right, you have this person one-on-one, either in manner, some kind of manor zone coverage, but like, this guy is responsible for you. You have a two-way go against the singular player. The way that they dress all of that stuff up,

and they have those two pieces combined with the speed that Ruggs gives them, and then just the trying to describe like what kind of receiver Brian Edwards is he's just like that bigger body like kind of slasher type guy just like I'm gonna hit a deep dig to you and like that's what you are

like now they they have all these pieces and the pieces makes sense and I think that I don't know it's just fun to watch this offense right now for all of these reasons yeah and the the usual negative with Gruden sometimes he can get too cute

and like you know it's like Oh, you could tell he really liked his design. And, and, but sometimes he snaps out of it. But seeing them when it's clicking, it's really fun. I mean, it really is like watching a team do this because it's, it's good concepts. It really is. Like they're not doing anything too crazy. But also the smattering they're doing.

Like they'll attack vertically. Like you're a stutter and go example. They'll do the all go runoffback seam stuff out of heavier personnel. But creating those advantage matchups like you're saying with the hip slot stuff, defensive guys call Y, Y, Y, wing, which I'll never do. do, but that's what some people know it as. And that's the two tight ends or a fullback and a tight end doing that. I think we're seeing it more and more with two high defenses being more prevalent.

And getting that advantage, you're putting either the linebacker and no man's land. So if I were to run a zone with a bubble there, he either has to play the bubble or he has to play the zone. And I'm going to make him wrong if I'm running the ball there. Passing the ball, sometimes that guy, he has to be a curl flat player and work underneath. Say I ran a smash concept, what we've talked about before. he has to sink underneath that corner route on those concepts. And you can get an advantage that if you have Henry Ruggs

or somebody with some speed, if you create a stack formation and you're making a linebacker in a corner pass these things off as opposed to two corners that do it every single day and know what these looks are. And it gives you the advantage. I think just teams got away from it a little bit because everybody was in cover three so much.

Defensive would just rotate the weak safety over there and it kind of messed with your run game a little bit, maybe it will less advantage. But I just think with, more too high two high defenses is now that's why that's coming back because now it's just like an easy tell if they want to bring a pressure like a lot of these teams will bring that base pressure these fan geo defenses i know this is stealers but just talking league wide it's it's an easy tell oh there's a safety cap and that's a lot pressure here it comes like i know i you

like you said you're just giving so many little advantages that just add up over a course of a game and i think cars playing extremely well i mean like he's they've done this before where the offense is like oh they're doing some nice stuff i think he's playing at a really high level that throw to rugs is like high level shit like that's a really really, really impressive play. All right. Let's get to our next one here. Sam Darnold, you have my attention.

Yeah. He played well for the second straight week. 26 to 38, 308, two touchdowns, an interception, and a couple other questionable throws today. He had some moments where it's like, Sam, the third down, the third down when he rolled, when he spun out to the left and he threw the ball back. Trip behind him. Oh, my God.

Please. Like, that's just, it's, that's all I don't want you to do right now is exactly those types of plays. But for the most part, I mean, this is similar to what we talked about last week where it's like, this is here for you. Like, we're talking about giving guys answers, little tiny ways today so many times where it's like, all right, you have man coverage. The DJ Moore touchdown. Perfect example. It's like, all right. We're motion to McCaffrey out.

Like, you have man coverage, slant flat, hit the slant, touchdown. Like just little tiny things where it's like, just. play the game that's in front of you. Play the game that I'm presenting to you. And right now, he is doing that at a high enough level where if I were the Panthers, I would feel pretty good about it. Yeah.

And the first TD he had on the naked was so cool because I think Darnold in the past would have hit the flat. And the flat was there, but it would have been a catch and tackle, like a two yard, three yard gain. He glanced at it, but then he was like,

wait a sec, that guy's coming down. And he glanced his head. I would say the ball was good. It was a little high, but it was like, he put it right on there, touchdown.

hits the over route for a touchdown. He's taking those doubles and triples when a single is there. And that's where you hope to see how a good quarterback or a good quarterback play. And like I think you just brought it up too is that they're putting Joe Brady's doing a great job just putting the guys in good. DJ Moore, which really good, like really doing the receiver stuff. Like he's like catching the, I'm not only just like the slant route, but like he was catching stop routes like a true X.

And it was like, oh, okay, DJ Moore. And oh, actually even this is kind of like what you just said too. like they opened up the whole offense to him saying like, hey, the world's your oyster a little bit. Kind of like, hey, this is your team, Donald. We trust you what you're doing was it was third and 11 in the four minute drill at the end of the game. What a four minute drill is is you're trying to burn the clock. And teams will have structure of plays that they really prefer in that situation. It's a whole other type of situation that offenses and defenses have.

And it was third and 11 in that four minute drill and they threw it. And they didn't have to. They're ice in the game. Most teams would probably run it and just burn some clock. but the fact they trusted him to make the right decision was like, okay, they're building some confidence, not only just in him, but everybody else with what Sam Darnold's doing. So that's pretty cool to see. Like you mentioned, the, uh, the throwing behind him was bad Sam all the way. It was terrifying to see that. And then also he had the interception on the little quick game concept where he was trying to, he was getting, he kind of floated ball. Yeah, exactly. Just trying to do too much. So I try and do too much. And on that play, this is like, we're going to get into it probably. But like, talking about that's what Carson Wentz does a million times. It's a quick. It's a quick. game concept, you know you're getting pressure. It's one and done on that read. It's that ball comes out because the O line is not blocking for that long. But O line and quick game, O line knows it's quick game. So they block a certain way. It's one Mississippi, two Mississippi,

ball better be out. So the fact that he double clutched there is like, oh, come on, Sam, but that wheel's got to be turning a little bit. And that's something that Wence gets into. But the thing is they've taken, that used to be seven times a game. And the fact that only happened once or twice, maybe. Just flip the percentages. That's all. I want the proportions of good and bad to be flipped. And that is what they've ended up doing. And I just think that when you combine

the DJ more touchdowns a perfect example. Another one I loved it. This is talk about plays that are becoming more and more popular just the way teams are playing. They have a formation

that they'll use where they'll have a tight end. It's Arnold a lot because they do it in like passing specific situations where he'll be like that nub trips look where he's a tight end

attached to the formation on one side and the three receivers on the other side. And they did it today. and they created one of those four strong looks where McCaffrey's in the flat. And then they had the other two guys run off. And then they had more on the deep out to hit that vacated area against what I assume was like a quarter's coverage. And it's, I love that.

It's like, again, that's easy. Like, just you, that's exactly where you should go with the ball. The coverage dictates. That's where it is. It's just everything aligns in that moment in a way that makes the game easy on a quarterback who we know is talented. And I think that happened consistently today. Oh, go ahead. Oh, I'm sorry, but it's just he's not missing a lot of throws right now.

His accuracy is totally good right now. It's just that he had, it's the, he had a couple bad decisions. So it's not the physical stuff. And why that accuracy is playing so well is because he's so confident what's being asked of him to do. So it's what we saw with Josh Allen last year. His feet are calming down. I'm not saying to that extent where he's going to have a freaking MVP season, but it's, but it's just like things are slowing down mentally.

so then his feet calm down. His feet are less noisy. So now he's not spraying balls because he's late and he's over extending or any of those types of things. So now it's just it slows down his brain slowing down. So now his feet are slowing down. Now the accuracy is coming with that. It's kind of the process is leading to the results.

And it's kind of cool to see it week one, week two as opposed to going like, oh, he's doing a couple good things. We'll see it in week eight. It's like it's good to see it real so early on in the year. I will say McCaffrey was great today. Oh, fantastic. The weapon hit he is for them in the passing game is amazing. The Stephen Ruiz meme with Cali Shanhan with a microscope, that was Joe Brady and Zach Bonn today.

I mean, that was, I will say it, that is, that was a consistent issue for the Saints. Was Zach Bonn having to play zone coverage in the middle of the field and the corners, corner injury issues they had today? Those showed up. So there are caveats to what Darnold did. But just again, he's playing a very good version of football in the way that, I mean, the way that they're asking him to play. And I thought he was impressive today.

And the same side of this. Well, I was going to say, and hopefully his head coach doesn't punt the ball at the 33 yard line again. I, Kim, I'm so sad we did not talk about that last week. I am too. That's one 100% on me. It's one 100% on me.

That's why I roped it back in. Slowly, as they slowly gain confidence in their quarterback, hopefully that stops happening. There are five more examples of cool Joe Brady plays I could throw in here from this game. He's doing a really, really nice job. The run game's great.

Yep. Sorry. And it's, keep cut the off. I'm so excited with it. When they're creating, I mean, like the shot play they had Rob B.

Anderson today. They wind up 21 max protection. It's just like, do this in a good way. Like it just, you can take shots. Protect yourself. Protect your quarterback.

Make the game easier on him. Yep. From the same side of this, it's a miserable day. I mean, James was, we talk about Bad Sam. We had some James plays

that were vintage James plays. They had eight coaches. They had eight coaches out today. Like it's just, this seems like one of those games. You're coming off a fantastic win over the Packers. You got players out. You got coaches out. You're on the road.

I mean, these are the types of games that happen. I'm not going to make any sweeping declarations about what we think about the Saints after today. Yeah. It burned the tape type of game. Just like the Packers had last week, like the Saints are now on the receiving end of that. It's just kind of like, hey, take lessons, write some notes down. All right, let's move on to week three.

The one thing I'll say on the Saints office. offensive side of this. Reddick multiple times was just not paying attention to the eye candy that he's supposed to pay attention to on some of those play action concepts and just beeline toward the corner. Beeline. Yeah. And it's and that that that have a couple splash plays for them as a result of that today. So that's interesting. I mean, I'm wondering what the coaching points are on that, whether he's actually being taught. All this stuff tight end slicing to the flat, them running away from you just like they're supposed to be kind of slow playing that and squeezing it down.

Don't worry about that because he made a couple huge plays as a result of that today. And the Saints just couldn't make them pay for it. Yeah. Even when they were trying to like have the tight end help over there like coming across the formation like with the Rams do a lot like he was late because Reddick was just so fast. It's exactly the play that I'm thinking about. I think yeah. I think we both have the same play in our heads.

And that that is probably some coaching points. And that's him maybe teeing off hearing a call or something knowing something like that happens too where guys are like they don't say rip when it's a. run like you know like they know they hear those Aaron Donald's like that's for all of his athletic gifts that's actually what Aaron Donald does extremely well too is he understands what old line calls are it actually takes advantage of it but it's I think some of that too and that's that's just changing the angles of your attack and that's one of those where it's like oh like by time I think maybe they could they could adjust it was a totally different game script that exactly yeah yeah but they were just

weren't it was the Panthers had had a page ahead and by time to say and said just it was game was probably too late for them to actually do it. Because the way that you make them pay for it is you run at him. Yeah, right. When you're down by three touchdowns, it's probably not going to work as well. Can't really set that up. All right. That's the stuff that we were excited about today and then we thought went well today.

Let's get to some things that maybe did not go quite as well. Why don't you explain this to me like I am an eight-year-old? All right. Here's what I need an explanation for today. I need the NFL explained to me why the fuck this taunting rule is a thing. Just, it's just, it's just to annoy us. I mean, I swear, it's honestly such a big brother move. Like, just like, kind of like, just like, I'm not hitting you kind of move. Like, and I just go ahead. Like, when I was with the Raiders, in 2017, they changed the rules to allow more celebrations. We could do team. We could do units celebrations. No one, everyone loved it, right? Universal praise. And what's why ruin that? Why? It's such an NFL move to do this. there is no utility to it.

When we were a couple years ago, because this is what happens, right, in the NFL, we have these points of emphasis early in this season that the refs are told to look for. For the first two or three weeks of the year, it's all we talk about. Remember when the past interference was, excuse me, when the roughing the passer calls

were totally out of control, the body weight calls were just ruining everything. This happens. The past interference reviewable, rule. Every year we have a version of this. I can understand how we got to reviewable pass interference, right? That moment from that Saints Rams game, I understand how we get from point A to point B. I understand how we have a greater emphasis on roughing the passer calls. Quarterbacks are the most important players in the league. People tune in to watch quarterbacks.

I grasp the league's motivation here. There is no justification for this. There is no justification for trying to legislate emotion out of a game where these guys are what we're asking them to do for three hours every single week and just the heights of emotionality that you have to bring yourself in order to play the game at a high level to ask people to just erase reactions to plays. It, you're gesturing incomplete in someone's general direction and we're going to throw a 15-yard flag that can swing the outcome of a game. It's insanity to me.

It just there is no upside and no benefit to this being a thing. And typically, I'm not like a pile on like, we all know it's stupid. Like I'm not making some novel point by saying that this is dumb. Everyone on the internet said it was dumb. but that's how dumb it is that I feel I still feel the need to spend five minutes talking about this because it infringed on our football Sunday in a way that has zero justification. Exactly. And like you said,

you're telling these guys that are psychotic competitors that is one of the most, I mean, imagine us as fans when a ball goes incomplete and everyone goes, ah, and that's us as fans standing there. Now imagine making the play. Don't you think you're going to be a little hyped up? Like, and you're just telling the person that made the play, not one cheering it on, made the play can't have any emotion. And it's like, they're like, well, we want positive emotion. But guess what? Well, now you're putting it in the place where it's like, what is that?

What is that? Some of these guys are so dumb. Some of these guys have been doing that since like middle school where you're signaling this stuff. And it's like all of some they have to like as grown men now they have to worry about it. Like there's so much that goes into us. Receivers and D.Bs. O-Limon and D-Lyman. Guys talk the entire game.

Guys are motivated the whole game. Do you think a guy just made a bad play? And then a quarter later makes a play that saves the game or or just redeems themselves. And they just have to walk up the field and go like, like, okay, good job me. Like, no, it's like, no, if you're going to react, they're human beings. It's just let them play. Now you're making them think about more. You're making all of us think about more.

We don't get to enjoy touchdowns now because we have to worry about a penalty that's some bullshit. We don't have to like, you know, a big third down stop. Like just all these guys, now the rest have to look for it. The refs, I'm going to bring it up again. The rest blew that safety in the Titan Seahawks game. Guess what? They're probably worried too much about the guy celebrating too much for getting the sack, like rather than actually like calling the game, you know,

the rules like what their actual job is. And so we're putting more on these guys that we already acknowledge influence the game in a way that we don't like. And now we're rewarding that with more. And I just don't understand. The NFL as a whole is usually so reactive and not proactive. And it's like the first time ever, they've been proactive about something.

It's like the worst thing possible to be proactive about. It's just like I said before, it's just such an NFL move. And I just, no one likes it. I don't like it. You don't like it. It's just I don't understand it whatsoever.

Not only is the spirit of it wrong, but it's weight the importance of the plays. Typically, this comes on third down. These are drive-ending plays. They're now extending drives. So one, it's a dumb rule that makes the game lessens,

to watch because it's, I like when players are excited. Like, I like when there's emotion in the game. So one, it's making the experience of watching the NFL less fun on the Sunday. And two, it's swinging games in disproportionate ways for what's happening in the moments that it's happening in. Like in two, in two different realms, this is dumb and is completely indefensible. We're penalizing a team for playing better because the team celebrating is generally. the one probably going to get penalized. So now we're rewarding the team for doing better, which is just, I'm a board game nerd.

I love rules. So now it's just like, this is like one of the worst things you can do. It's like you're rewarding. It's a bad incentive. And that's not what that's meant to be. When you change a rule, you're rewarding, you want good incentive. You want in soccer, they change it for our win is three points instead of two points. We want to why they do that.

We want people to try to go for the win instead of the time. Like that's, you know, that's incentive. That's a good rule change. I mean, but that's NFL is just like this is how it's a knee jerk thing. And that's what they want to do. All right. Let's get to a couple things where we want to slow down a little bit. I want to take it easy after week two.

Pumpy brakes key. All right. I love it, I just love that name that drop right there. It's perfect. How many times have you seen Tropic Thunder? Oh, 30. I've actually listened. to the director's commentary where Robert Downey Jr. doesn't break character.

Like he he stays in character during the director's commentary. It is of movies that have come out like in the last 20 years. It's, it's one of my most rewatched movies. It is, I look for excuses to put it on. And it's one of those that's just clearly in the rotation. It's just there's so many scenes in it that like, even when the director, uh, director, he doesn't see where he just goes like, what to Nick Maltese's character? Like just little scenes like that.

Like I just like think about like constantly or just you know anything with Bill Hater and Tom Cruise's character. Like I mean everything. I mean, one of most quotable movies ever. There's everyone in that movie is throwing a hundred. I mean, it's absolutely ridiculous. That game. That game. That the entire movie is a heat check by everybody.

Like everybody's just got yeah, let's go for it. Screw it. A couple guys didn't have to worry about heat checks today. And that was the rookie quarterbacks. So, but I want to slow it down with the rookie quarterbacks. during the preseason, it became very easy to be like, oh, man, look at these guys. These guys are ready. Can you remember a group of rookie quarterbacks that has looked this good in the preseason?

They're still rookie quarterbacks. It is very, very important to remember this. And I want to talk about it through the lens of a couple different guys. But let's start with Zach Wilson. Zach Wilson had a nightmarish game today. We have seen, it's almost a cliche. at this point is rookie quarterbacks having nightmarish games

against Bill Belichick. Like if you go back and look at the picks, they're every version of awful, right? I mean, there's bad decisions, there's bad accuracy. The one that he overthrew to McCordy, he throws wall moving to his left for no reason. He's just like

trying to put sauce on a throw when he's like down two touchdowns that just doesn't need it at all. Is that when he flipped his feet, like he flipped his feet and hips? Like he went for style points. I don't know. And the pocket was actually like clean too. He was just like, yeah, let's just flip the hips real quick.

Yeah. It's like Tony Hawk pro quarterback. It's like you don't need to do this, man. He went for the no one. He went for the faky side. Yes. Yeah, just let's switch. Let's go goofy foot on this one.

And that's fine. And like it's, I don't, to me, this is not a moment. I'm like, oh, man, I'm really worried about Zach Wilson. Like, there are going to be issues. His offensive line is a mess right now. I mean, you have the injuries, you have the concerns. you're playing against the Patriots. That's going to happen.

Trevor Lawrence, same deal. An awful day. A couple, I mean, his numbers were terrible, a couple of really bad decisions. I picked by Sartan was an insane play, by the way. I mean, just absolutely ridiculous play. So it's, these games are going to happen. And then Justin Fields today, I don't know, what did you think? I, it's kind of what I expected out of him.

He had a couple good throws, but he got put in so many shit situations. It was like third and long has to pass. third next or long has to pass. He still has to work on a protection stuff. I actually did see him check one. And I want to watch. It was a beautiful play. I want to look at it.

He saw the nickel was coming. And he called it out. It was like, all right, he's learning. I know, so. Hey,

you'll learn very quick when you get your head taken off of the pre- yes. I don't like that feeling. So I'm going to change. I'm going to work on how to stop that. What's the process to not get my head taken off? I thought it was fine.

I mean, God, he can create. I mean, that zone read where he's spinning on. on Hendrickson. Like he just, I mean, he does all those types of things.

It's just there, he learned a couple of mistakes. They all these guys had a welcome to the NFL moment today. And like Zach Wilson had he, I think Zach Wilson today learned what NFL open is. I, I think he realized, I can't take that extra little hitch I like to take that I took up

BYU a lot where I kind of got, he gets that little extra little gather and then flips. And his arm is outstanding. His arm is as advertised. It's, it's so funny. It's like for me, like I have to like,

see what these guys look at an NFL. And I go, oh, he has a good arm strength. Like even when I'm great, guys, I'm like, I could still be a kind of a hater. But like, it's like NBA. When you see a guy dunk on an NBA court, you're like, oh, yeah, he is athletic. Like, you know, like I believe it now because I see the scale of it all. But same with like Zach Wilson. He, I think today he got caught double clutching a lot of things.

He was aiming throws. He felt, it felt like he was late on a lot today where he was backing up in the pocket. All these guys today. I would say Lawrence did as much because his pocket movement's really good. But Fields, Wilson, even Mac Jones a little bit, they work back in the pocket, which you can get away with sometimes. But it's it, you kind of have to wean out of it as you become a pro. And working back in the pocket is because the past rush and the offensive tackles are taught to set at a certain point. So if you're there taught to block you at seven yards and you back up to nine or ten, it's what we get on Mahomes about all the time.

But my homes is my homes. But backing up to nine, 10 yards, also that DN could just be aligned towards that point. And the tackle is like, oh, I didn't do anything. thing wrong. I'm blocking, you know, I'm blocking inside out. Um, so I think Wilson had a couple those today where it was just like he's working back and taking an extra hitch and he ends up late. Like he had a fourth and two. He's late on the outthrow. And it's because he just takes that half a little second, just that little count and the ball comes out late. And he tries and then he's trying to gun it in there. And, and I think just today, Bell Belichick just had a field day

with that. I actually wasn't as low on Trevor Lawrence rewatching him as I thought I would be. he he's the opposite of Alex Smith in the sense that that that dude does not take a check down he really doesn't it's third in 12 he's he's thrown at 20 it's third and four he's thrown at 15 he is like he goes for the throat every single time so I'm like I'm not I'm not like I'm not like hating it too much like that's something that's so hard to teach and do a guy and like it's easier to teach out of it I've talked about this with Darnold that's why I was always kind of higher on Donald. He was willing to do that shit.

But he's taking the high on those high, low concepts. And so it's even like he hit a two minute drill, he did a backside dig. Shout out Seth Galena. He loves a good old backside dick because Breeze used to hit them all the time. But it's like he hit one of those in a two minute drill. I was like, ooh, baby. Like that's, that's the good shit right there. That's what you want to say on your quarterback.

But he's just, I think he's just gauging stuff. He's got learned that, hey, it's okay to punt. I think he's so used to be in with Clemson where they're just, or knifing guys left. right all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's okay to be aggressive and make a mistake. I think in the NFL, sometimes the classic saying for you teach quarterbacks is end every drive with a kick, whether that's a field goal, an extra point, or a punt. And I think he just has to learn that that's what it is now. It's like, hey, it's third and 12. I didn't get the first down. We got

five yards we punted, but at least it's not a pick. And now they have the ball in the red zone come to the other side. But I thought all those guys, and then just real quick on Mac Jones, who had an a dot today of four yards. Uh, which is the second, uh, Ben, Ben, second percentile for ADOT in a game. That's what it was. Second two. Like that's what it was. But he is so damn accurate.

I mean, he really is Chapainton's Redux. But with him, he only can go as far as the guys create after the catch. Because he's going to put it on the money every freaking time. But if they only can get two yards after the catch, that's what it is. That's what the game is going to be.

That's just how his style is. But he is like rare accuracy. He is his. his accuracy has been really, really impressive to watch as an NFL quarterback. It's like maintained what he did at Alabama now at the NFL level. I could tell you the three throws

where he threw the ball more than 10 yards than there, I think. He hit, wasn't it a corner to Jacoby Myers? And then he tried to go back to it and it was incomplete. And then they had to trick play to John Doe Smith down the left side by. Those were the three points.

What's so funny on that trick play, he hits Jondu and he had a higher throw over it. He's willing to do it sometimes, but it's like, come on. Like push it downfield. You got it right there. But he's like, He's almost to a fault.

I would say to a fault, actually. I'm not going to diss this at all because he is, he knows what they're trying to accomplish on every single play. And that's what something he did Alabama is you could tell the intent of every single concept they ran because he's going to run it exactly how it was designed as far as his eyes and where the ball comes out on time and stuff. But that's why he needs guys to create, maybe create after the catch and because they want to maximize what those plays are

supposed to do. But it was, they're rookie quarterbacks, man. We've been spoiled with some good rookie quarterbacks. and we forget that some of these guys are going on on some shit situations, and they only can do so much. It's really hard to play quarterback in the NFL as a rookie. It's really hard.

My final point on Justin Fields, he finished six for 13 for 60 yards. If Mooney catches that first deep cross that he dropped, and if Robinson catches that touchdown, that suddenly becomes eight for 13 for 115 yards, and the entire game looks a lot different. Yeah. I mean, it's the big is bad.

That go ball was beautiful. That go ball allowed on Rob, so it was beautiful. It was gorgeous. His ball placement is really good. That's what he does very well. And he multiple times down the field. There were a few plays where it's like half an inch here, half an inch there. His ball placement was exactly what you wanted to be.

He's making plays with his legs. The pick is tough. That's a pick Lamar Jackson made through last year. Against that exact team against that exact look. Yeah, it's hard. Comes down and he drops out and it's like, oh, man, well, what are you going to do? Like that's a really difficult play. I remember Lamar doing that against the Bengals last year.

It's okay. It's a, it's a, that's a, welcome to NFL moment because that is a lean into the punch throw you have to make because it is they, you're pre snap going, all right, I got my crosser. They're blitzing. I'm going to replace the pressure with this crosser. Let's get the first down. We're done.

Yeah, don't you have to think, hey, just get the snap and clean it up. And you got a guy dropping right to where you're throwing. And that that's the thing is the counter to that is going over the top of it. And it's like, but that's. And he'll get there. All these quarterbacks were so cool about them is they're willing to push the ball. Like I would say none of these guys where I'm like, oh, boy, this guy might not have a chance. It's just that they have to sometimes you have to take your blows before you can kind of like learn from it.

And sometimes having a negative play is better than a positive play because sometimes you're just like, I can get away with that. Who gives a shit? But having a negative play going like Justin Fields getting his head taken off. Hey, I want to learn from that. And I think all these guys kind of want to learn from those negative plays. Last thing about Justin Fields, I think the toothpaste is that. of the tube here, man. I mean, I don't, I just don't know how you can, I just don't know how you can do it.

I mean, we, the justifications for, someone say that a while. I mean, I was trying, cats out of the bag, whatever it is. This is over. I just don't think you can go back now because the way that he played, he was exciting enough and, you know, who knows how hurt Dalton was, I just think you have a hard time now regressing. That just felt like the moment where I was back and forth about it. I understood it both ways. I understood not wanting to put him out there.

But I just think it's going to be really hard to keep him off the field now. I actually didn't see what Nagy said after the game about fields and about what the timeline would be. But I just think it would be really hard facing your locker room after that and being like, yeah, we're going back with Dalton now. Yeah, especially after he iced the game on that fourth down or I'm the third and long where he scrambled and broke the tackle and everything. and he ices the game. He gets the first down. That kind of, that puts it out of reach.

And like you said, it's like he did enough. It wasn't like he was a total train wreck, but even though statistically it wasn't all there. It's like he did so much stuff today that was like, yeah, that dude does some different things. And that's stuff that can win you a game when everything's not clicking for you is when a

guy can create like that. And, you know, even though Dalton had did play well in week one, I mean, for what he is, it feels just kind of does a lot more. And it does a lot more. And it's only going to get better as with more.

with more reps. Not today, my good man. I'm feeling saucy. All right, every week we like to dig into. It's kind of a quiet, understated aspect of a game that led to success on offense or defense in some way that we wanted to shine some light on.

So Nate, take this one away. What did you want to talk about today? I wanted to talk about the windback run concept, which is a super sexy. I know, guys. But what I want to talk about, it just cropped up a whole,

cropped up three, at least three different teams today. What a windback run is, it's kind of what it sounds like. It's a run that winds back with a running back. But what it is, it's usually a play off of a zone concept. So you'll see a lot of zone heavy run teams, offenses run this. And what you're trying to do is to get the offense or defense to flow heavy with it. So if you run the zone a lot, the linebacker is the second, even the defense aligns can

really flow with the run direction. And instead you're kind of pinning them. You're using an old line to set and then pin the defense going that way and then wind the run back to the other side and take advantage of that that Derek Henry long touchdown that you brought up that was a wine back play and on it it was just kind of it was funny it was they dressed it all up it looked like either duo it looked like zone it looked just like everything else they ever run looks like it's about to be zone comes back that's counterfoot work by the qb and that's actually a good way to look at why back windback wind back and counter are kind of similar thinkings but just different

versions of it counter being the kind of power version with a polar whiteback being in the zone version And they pinned aside. It's just a tech Derek Henry on a cornerback. Boom. Makes that guy miss outruns the safety, by the way, like who had an angle on. Oh my God. It was ridiculous. I know.

I, when you were talking about the play, I was like, I want to talk about this later because that play was awesome. But they ran it. The Vikings ran it today. The Vikings did theirs. And what's kind of cool is my three examples, they all ran out different personnel groupings,

which I think is pretty cool. I like that shit, guys. I don't know. I'm sorry. That's the stuff. That's the stuff that excites me when I watch this stuff. But theirs was out of heavier personnel.

And what they did with their same exact thing. They're a heavy zone team, boom, pin the defense, work right back. And when you have a real fast running back like Dalvin Cook, he can really take advantage of that. They hit a couple today that were really, really nice plays. And that's when they were taking advantage of like Isaiah Simmons, his eyes and Zaven Collins, who actually played really well today. He just, saving Collins is hilarious to watch out linebacker because he's a big player bust.

He's like, he thinks he's read something right. He's like, I'm going for it. Like, I think this is his own. I am going for it. And that's why a wineback play kind of gets him. But the one I wanted to talk about, which is it's kind of been one of my favorite plays for the last about two is year years now is the Rams version of wineback. And they've done theirs.

Famously, the Rams have run 11 personnel. They like to major in 11 personnel with three receivers. They can get away with that because they have two awesome blockers in Cooper Cup and Robert Woods. And they use them basically as de facto tight ends at times, which is just so, so cool. And when they, against your bears, the 2018 game, went the 6-1 front and all that, and they're taking away the outside zone. The Rams, they came back the next year in 2019, same thing. Teams started doing the exact same front to them.

And you can say there's a limitation. There's think pieces about what's happening with the Rams offense. And they came out of the buy week with this crazy to me, windback version with a receiver as the lead blocker on it. And it's kind of a weird. I've never seen it with a receiver. The Saints copied this last year. I saw him do it with Trey Kwan Smith, which I was pretty excited about. I saw Jonathan Taylor or Zach Pascoe be asked to do it with the Colts last year.

So I was like, okay, maybe this is a play that's going to proliferate around the league. I'm still holding out hope for that. I still have stock in this play. But what the Rams are doing now because now they're tying so much more with shotgun with Matt Stafford is now they're running the ball out of the gun. So against the Bears last week, they were running inside zone out of the gun. and how they tied it in with another run that they got to was they did the whiteback, but they did it out of the gun this time.

And what they did is they had the receiver insert. And this stuff, it looks, it just looks so different than a run concept that you're used to. We're used to fullbacks leading. We're used to the outside zone now where everything's just pushing to the side. And just seeing almost like this power play with a receiver leading the way is really kind of goofy to watch. And it's really cool. And I do think it's a creative.

It really speaks to Sean. McVeigh and the run game stuff that they've done under his tenure with the Rams is they kind of take when they get lemons they're like all right rather than just going we're never doing that again they go hey what's our change up now that can let us get back to our fastball and that's what that's what this windback play is for all these offenses this is just another good change up some of these offenses have and it's fun that's all these kind of teams that run a lot of zone that they get back to this play it's really cool and I really like the Rams version all the stuff that they're tying in with Stafford being able to operate from the gun and actually

read stuff out. They're now going like, okay, well, if we're going to be in the gun, we can't be a heavy tendency in the gun that were only passing, which they did the last couple years, but it's so funny. So they're now like going like, hey, let's try and get some runs and everything. And they're actually trying to do it. And I want to see maybe the next step, because what they did with the zone stuff wasn't anything revolutionary. It worked on against the bears last week. I want to kind of watch what they did this week. But getting to that wine back. So it already shows me that they've already thought this through, that they're like, hey, we know teams are going to be on it.

What can we already? And they put it on film already. One with cup leading away. One with woods leading away. One out of 12 personnel. One out of 11 personnel. So I'm very excited to see where kind of this play goes because it went from under signer to God.

And what's the next step of it? Do other teams start copying it going like, well, that's pretty cool. Like we need a new version. Let's get to that. So the windback run. Yeah. Learned. That is the concept of the day.

And I just, I really like it. There's some big plays that happen today off the wineback. the whole point of this segment is for you guys when you're watching next week to be Leo from once upon a time in Hollywood pointing at the TV. That's what we want. Like that's the ultimate goal of this segment. So when you see that play next week, you'd be like, oh, yeah, that's what they were talking about last week. Ideally, you're at a bar with your friend. You can be like, look at this. Isn't it? I can explain this to you. That's what we're trying to get here. All right. Last segment for today, we're going to talk about who won the belt. How do you feel about the match?

It doesn't matter how you feel. That's all for you, baby. That is all for you. Every wrestling draft that we can use is definitely for Nate. All right, very quickly here. I only have one candidate. I think that the performance he put on today, Lamar probably has some claim to it after the game he had on Sunday night football.

I still think after what he did today and what after he's done the last two weeks, to me it's Kyle Murray. I mean, what Kyler Murray did today and just putting his team on his back, he's playing at a ridiculously high level right now. He really is. We knock the Cardinals offense because it just what they do schematically, not because of what Kyler does. Yes. That's I always want to differentiate. I love watching Kyle and Murray play football.

And today was just him, it was the epitome of what he is with the Cardinals. He truly is, I mean, most quarterbacks are the most valuable player. But it, him more than most offenses. is Kyle is the offense. It's just everything runs through him in the sense that he's creating plays. He's making he he's getting whatever his lemons making lemonade. He's doing the same thing and just doing it time after time after time. And just being able to, it's just so cool watching some of these guys.

And we're talking about getting a bucket and creating plays and that stuff we talked about with quarterbacks. Kyle is doing it time after time after time. And with these teams that I want to bring, what are the kind of defensive kind of flavors now? it's pressure or match stuff, right? Defenses are taught to, it's really a count in their head. It's like one Mississippi, two Mississippi where they have to pass stuff off or I have to guard for this long because that's how long concepts are. How do you match coverage chaos?

And that's what Kyler does. How do you match chaos? And that's what he does. And that's what a guy like Josh Allen does. But Kyler today, because of his willingness to go deep, like he punished the Vikings today just where they wanted to pressure, he punished him. Like that's what that was the Rondell Moore, a scramble throw.

And then also like he had the draw for a touchdown. And on that play, it was match coverage. Eric Kendricks, who's playing phenomenal, by the way, but he, Eric Kendricks is taught to,

you know, they're looking up, they're bracketing guys. So what is snapping of the ball, he looks up to who number three is because that, his eyes don't go on the quarterback. It's not playing and dropping in his own and all that. He's looking at the receiver.

So the Cardinals are on QB draw. Roddy Hudson's at the goal line before any defender even comes at. I'm like Rodney Hudson's just, you know, I always love watching an offense alignment in space because you can tell they're just so uncomfortable. They're like, there should be more people near me. So like Rodney's looking around like going like, where is everybody? And then, you know, Kyle ends up scoring on it. But it was pretty cool. And yeah, I, I've all for it.

Kyle or Murray, I win the belt. Hold it up, man. It's not the cruiser weight belt either. He actually wins the heavyweight belt. Like he doesn't get the light heavy weight belt. I mean, he threw a couple interceptions today. but I mean, when you're lifting an entire offense, the way that he's being asked to lift it right now,

I mean, he's trying to make every single play. He's trying to win the game with like every single play. And that's going to have both good and bad moments. But today, they good far outweighed the bad. So when I was in my senior year, we had one play. One play where I got to, I mean, I got to pull a bunch, but it was a, it was a screen. And like, I leaked out and I was the lead blocker on this screen.

It was a play we were like dialing up all week. And I was like, I'm going to throw the. biggest fucking block on this play. Like, I'm just going to ruin the corner and we were going to score a touchdown on this play. And we ran it during the game and I just completely whiffed. That's what? And my office, my, my, my offensive coordinator just, he was like, you talked about this all week. All week you talked about this. So talking about just offensive line and being uncomfortable in space, listen, I, I, I've been there. You get it. I've, I've, I've been there. At least twice in my life, I have seen where we had a trap play. I got some badass like detack

or something like that. And once in Wisconsin, once in the pros, where the person that we're calling the trap play to block it, once was a tight end, once was the offensive guard, all week, it was like, you're going to lay that MF her out. Like, you got it, man. You're going to lay him out statement. We're going to open the game with it. We're going to open the game with that trap.

We got you. Air ball. Both of them. The tight end one, freaking took out the entire left side of the offensive line because he missed the block so bad. He just knocked every. It was like a five-yard blow up. And it was just like, oh, my God. It should have been the highlight.

It just opened the game, which is a five-year loss. It just looked like shit. So I kind of get where you get hyped up. I'm used to be in a quarterback where I had the ball in my hands, but I was handing off a lot. So maybe I didn't have too much dialed up. It was a throwback tight end screen. And it was just me in the corner. And it just still haunts me to this day.

So I feel for Roddy Hudson in that moment. All right. A couple things that we're going to be keeping an eye on this week before we get out of here. We did not talk about the Rams and the bucks a lot today. They're playing next week. So we're going to dig into that game in a big way on Friday's preview show. Also, a lot of injured quarterbacks today. Carson Wentz got hurt, Tua got hurt, Tyra Taylor got hurt,

see how that all plays out what the long-term ramifications of those injuries are. Obviously, huge bummer for Wentz and Tua, just because think about all of the intrigue about both of those guys coming into the year. Hopefully they're back sooner rather than later. We'll be talking about that a lot over the next couple weeks. if they are going to be out for an extended period of time. But for now, that's all we got today. Really appreciate you guys sticking around.

Appreciate everyone who watched the stream. I know it's late. Appreciate everyone who's listening on Monday morning. It means a lot to us. Remember, mailbag tomorrow. We're doing it with Stephen Holder. Very excited about doing that. He's one of our cults writers, but is also now a national writer for The Athletic.

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