The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Mac Jones dominates the Browns, Cam Newton is back, Dak Prescott's MVP campaign, Seahawks score 0 & more with Nate Tice

Episode Date: November 15, 2021

Week 10 in the NFL was full of high-scoring blowouts, a shutout, a tie, the return of a franchise QB, and more headlines that felt oddly right for this 2021 season. Nate Tice and Robert Mays react to Sunday's biggest stories, from Mac Jones' ascension in New England & the Browns' issues, Cam Newton being BACK in Carolina, the argument for Dak Prescott the MVP, the Minnesota Vikings being contenders, curious losses for the Buccaneers and Seahawks and more! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays. Joining me tonight. It's my good friend Nate Tice. Nate, how you doing, buddy? Doing well. Officially we're in the second half of the season,

and it felt like, you know, maybe some narrative, like season two narratives are forming, even though it's one single season. You know some stuff from the first half. It's like, oh, how the writers treat that character and treat that team. So now we're starting to see that come to fruition, I think, with some teams and other teams, it's like, We're still got to see how those plots wrap up.

That snowfall in Green Bay I think was indicative of a lot of things changing. That first ridiculous set of shots of opposing players walking out there shirtless. It's very cold where I am right now. It's too cold for the middle of November. I was wrapped under like four blankets today. When you live in the Midwest, you don't feel the need to show how tough you are when things start getting chilly like those guys did today. But the calendar is changing. We are moving forward here, and I totally agree.

There were some really surprising moments today. And I think I want to start with what happened in the Pat's Browns game, because that to me was the most impressive performance anybody put up today. The Patriots dominate Cleveland, 45 to 7. And the game was never close. I mean, their offense just rolled the entire day. The Brown's offense never found its footing. No Nick Chubb, but no excuse for how disjointed Cleveland looked for most of today.

But the most impressive part of this, to me, was the way that Mack Jones and the Cleveland, excuse me, Mac Jones and the Patriots offense played throughout this entire game. That entire game, you know who also is like that Kendrick Boring guy is pretty good. We should have somebody talk about it once or twice. You know, that was a lot of fun to see Boren get some shine, not just results, but every type of play they drew up for him today. Well, that's what I'll say is that on top of the way the Mac Jones played, which I do want to dig into, this was a situation where the entire Patriots offseason. was on display, even just with their offense, right? Yeah. Kendrick Bourne had a really nice day. Ramandre Stevenson had a really big day on the ground. Trent Brown was back, which I think really made a difference for them.

And I do want to get into that. And then obviously, Mack Jones. So you have all of these. And then Hunter Henry had a really nice day. So all of these pieces that they added this offseason, the vision for what this team could be, I think, was on display today. And a couple of weeks ago, you were as enthusiastic about. them as really any other team in the AFC and I was like, I just don't know what their ceiling looks like

offensively, but with the way that he played today and with the way that things are really falling into place on several different levels, offensive line, quarterback play, and play calling. Just that he was yanking, McDaniels was pulling all the right levers today. And I think there are a couple different examples stood out. The first drive that they had, they had a first and 20, I'm pretty sure. or maybe it was a second drive.

They had a first and 20 after they got a holding call. And he called an end-around to Kendrick Borg. And they got back on-true. They had so many good back-on-track plays today. Yes. They had a third and 13 completion to Bolden on a screen on a touchdown drive to get them back down inside the 10. Just all of that stuff today.

They built on those born end-arounds. They ran three of them and then they ran the screen compliment off of it. Just all of this nonsense combined with their players playing well. And I say nonsense in a good. way. I mean, just deep in the bag, but in ways that makes sense. A clowning was crashing down. They were getting chunk plays off of it. So you're seeing it all start to come together and their defense continues to play really well. So it just leads me to think of what could this Patriots team be in this muddy AFC? Because if they're this team,

then they can give anybody problems. And that was why a few weeks ago, I was pretty high on And it was going into that show, because we were like, okay, we were the top five. Because you and I were just like, what's trying to figure this? Like by talking about it. And I was like, I think I actually do like the Patriots. It was more like, it wasn't me talking myself into it. It was actually like they kind of check a lot of boxes. One thing we've talked about many times is they win in different ways.

And how they've hung with different types of teams, different styles that get thrown at them. And they just kind of battle in every game. And it's one of those things where even the offense wasn't maybe as in It was fine, but it was as impressive before, but they were doing the right things and they were hurt. You know, so it was kind of like, it's going to go up. Like I was like, all right, I'm more optimistic. I was very bullish on that. And the defense, obviously, like, it's such a great point to talk about all those signs.

It was like Matt Judon had a great game on defense as well. And the Josh McDaniels kind of clinic. I'm so glad he gave him the shout out too because it's like today was a absolute clinic on how to neutralize good edge rushers. Yeah. Screens, like you said, draws. They had a couple really nice lead draws. all those endar rounds, that's taking advantage of edges not playing the rules. It's just like a naked does.

It's a clowny beater. That's a clowny beater. It really is. It really is. But they were getting everybody with them. Like they got Miles Garrett on one. And, you know, but that's what they're doing is now these edge rushers aren't like every down. They could just go, whoa, I'm going right up the field.

Now they actually have to play. Like, they actually have to think. And that's the worst thing you want people to do, right? You don't want your players thinking. You do, but you don't. You want them being very instinctual and playing fast. and also like shout out to Nikiel Harry. Like great blocking today.

Like he was like, I mean, his job today was to set screens. Like he was like a guy coming off the bench of basketball and just setting screens on the edges. But he was doing like a great job on him. So that's why they were getting all those outside runs because they're just attacking these good players like on unusual ways. And that's the offense. And I know Mac Jones played very well. I mean, he's playing efficient football. And even like he had.

He's good, man. I know. He had the. the go route. I want to say it was a third down. Yep. It was two buyers. Yep.

And on that one, it was, that was what I was waiting to see from Mac Jones was like, I could tell he's efficient. Every ball goes the right, right spot, right spot, right spot. But it was like, all right, I want to see him push it a little more. But then it was like, you could tell today, like against some of those pressures, he was like, I'm being aggressive. I'm not even going to read this play out. I'm going to just take my one on one.

And he's, I'm going to make him, let him get a chance to go make a play. And they did. And it's like, oh, it's cool. He's like, he's not just a, I'm always safe. And I have to be, everything has to be perfect and safety. He's like, no, he was throwing guys open. And when you have a rookie quarterback doing that with really good pieces around him, and a really good game plan, it's like this is what it looks like.

And I've been talked about the defense because you can tell they were just on top of their shit. Like they, every formation, just any motion that the Browns did, all those Patriots DPs were just communicating. I have a couple of examples. But it's, it was really, really impressive team performance from Patriots today. The most impressive thing to me was even when Mack Jones was pushing the ball down the field, It was instantaneous. That goal ball he hits Jacoby Myers. He hit his back foot and he let it go.

The corner out he threw to Hunter Henry. That was just a beautiful ball. He had several of those today. And you mentioned, and you look at some of the stats, I want to look at it. It was 16.2 completion percentage over expectation, which I think was the highest mark in the league today. It felt like it. The lack of pressure was huge. He was only pressured on five of 25 dropbacks, which again, that offensive line coming into form is going to be really important for them just being able to play.

the way that they want to. You mentioned not thinking. And this is to me kind of one of the coolest things about watching what he's done this year. He is thinking. And he's thinking in a really good way. There was a play at the two-minute warning. It was second and 11. And he walked up and he called an alert and he checked it.

And I think the terminology said gold grease is what he checked into. And it was a four-man box with two linebackers, a four-man front with two linebackers. Probably a run to the left. And it was run to the right. And it was a run to the right. And I think it was just a duo run. And they got a nice gash on second and 11. And this to me, that to me is so emblematic of what that offense is for young

quarterbacks. Because I think that there's a gap between what that offense asked their quarterback to do and what other offenses asked their quarterback to do. I was talking to Ryan Fitzpatrick this summer. And we were talking about when he went into that Patriot style offense when he was in Houston, with George Gottine with Bill O'Brien. He said it kind of opened his mind to how much control a quarterback could have over an offense because the quarterback controls everything.

As the Shanahan type of offense becomes more prevalent in the league, that offense minimizes the quarterback impact at the line of scrimmage. You don't control everything. It's a way for the play caller to kind of play through the quarterback. So Mack Jones is really the first quarterback we've seen since Tom Brady grow up in this New England offense that's kind of designed around him and we've watched somebody develop in it. And I think it's going to help him become a better quarterback than some of these other guys might have a chance to because he literally controls everything.

He's checking into the right runs. He's eight games in his career. That's a really, really big deal. And I just think that offense gives its quarterback a unique ability to do that in ways that a lot of the other offenses de jure in the NFL just don't. And I think it's going to help him in the long run. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Right in August they were doing it.

And you can tell he messed up a couple. Like, I'm just watching on TV. You can tell he messed up because you can see McDaniel's going like, no, do the whole talk thing. Obviously, no one listening to the podcast saw what I just did there, but I was mouthing stuff right there. But I just realized that. But it's a, but what it was, I mean, this is so good.

This is why you want to watch so much this pre-snap stuff with these guys is how much that gets put on them. That's why I'm very optimistic about Trevor Lawrence. is because he's the same way. He's very in control of their offense. That's because they were just like, hey, this guy's good. Let's let him do it. This Patriots way, it's like you said, for better or for worse, they, I mean, everything.

The mic point. Obviously the motions and everything. And why I say the mic point, some offense is more, that's an old school kind of thing is having the quarterback do that where they're identifying who the mic is for the whole offense. Usually the offense align more and running back and tight ends of protection. So they were doing that right away. There was a play.

I can't remember if it was preseason or it was in September. September, but he had a play where he had to swap the receivers because they were on the wrong side. He got the motion. And the whole time you can see he's looking at the play clock, kills the play, repoints the mic, brings the motion back in and runs the play. It was just like a normal handoff. But it was like, it's tough playing quarterback in the NFL. And that's not even a pass.

And that offense. In that offense, especially. There's no training wheels. That's the best way to put it. There's no cheap RPO's. There's no, yeah, they have a couple gadget plays. But it's like, everything's a real play where he has to read it out. And I love the point you brought up with the press.

pressure stuff too because that's what's been so impressive with Mac Jones. It's like, his internal clock is like perfect already. It's wound perfectly already as a rookie. So like he sometimes is so calm in the pocket where he's doing the Tom Brady dead legs and then throwing. And then there's other plays where he's throwing a ball up quick. And like it's like, his feel in the pocket is exceptional. It really is, especially at a young age. But he like just always knows how much clock he has in the pocket. Like every play, even stuff he can't see. Just he has that feel, that spatial awareness. And it's really impressive to watch, like play after play after play, different types of routes.

It's not like he's just run a quick game and just getting the ball out right away. He is because he can, but then he's running play action and he's running drop back stuff. It's impressive to watch a guy who's what, started nine games doing this stuff. And even if he doesn't have that godlike arm talent, he does as far as arm strength, he does have incredibly rare accuracy and he has an incredible feel for the pocket. So his bar is always going to be high. He's going to, you know, whatever you run for him, he's going to do it to the fullest. And it's just up to the players to execute from there.

Do you think people made a mistake about having him in that pecking order, in that hierarchy among the rookie quarterbacks? Or do you still worry that his ceiling is lower and we shouldn't jump to those sorts of conclusions? Because I am a little bit torn about that right now. I'm a little torn because it's, I don't want to sound like a hater right now, but it's, this is what we expected a little bit out of him, being a smarter, everything being quicker. Not to this extent, not to this extent.

It's not, he's playing better than I, you ever could have hoped. But those other guys have played like seven games. Like, yeah, that's the thing. This is the best system. He was picked 15. All these other guys are on garbage-ass situations. It's like so, yeah, in two years, let's talk about it.

Like, you know, this is, like his situation is really good. He is, this is the best path he's been on. He could be on. I think, I don't know, I felt like I was graded him how this was, but this is ridiculous what he's doing. I just think his situation is so much better than all the other rookie questions. I agree with that. Here's my thinking behind this.

My concern over about a guy built like him, just with his skill set, is that you need to win with your mind early. And he wasn't going to have solutions and answers to the test. When you can't be right athletically or with your arm in the way that we've seen some of these other young guys be. Or with Burrow, where it was a really strange situation where he was just running his college offense. I think it's difficult to be young and again, just have solutions to problems when you don't have that athletic profile because it takes a while to develop the upstairs part of it. You see guys that are 10 years into the league can play like that and dominate games, but it's because they've seen everything. It's because they have this backlog of 10 years of football. He doesn't have that and he's still winning that way.

And I just didn't think that was going to be possible because time was such a factor. So if he's going to be able to play like this, then even if there's a diminished ceiling athletically, he's still capable of a lot. So he just overcome the shortcomings I thought he was going to have so much faster than it seemed like any quarterback could because I thought that time and experience was the most important factor. And if he's able to kind of throw those out, then maybe we made a mistake. Yeah, that's a guy that, again, it was when I watched him.

I was like, I was a hater when I started watching the band of stuff. Oh, he's got great receivers. It's the easiest offense ever. Look at all these RPO's. Then you watch him and you're like, holy shit. This guy doesn't miss a throw. And that's why it was like, okay, if you have accuracy, accuracy translates. That's the best way I could put it.

It translates no matter what you run around it. And it raises the bar of what that quarterback is capable of. And it's just, oh, man, this is hard because it's like, I want to talk out on both sides of my mouth because it's like, I love what he does. Like, it's incredible what he's doing right now. It's such a young age. It's just those other guys. guys just have that upside and that's always just going to be hard for me to just go, oh, that's, you know, that they can reach that point.

Yeah. But it's like, it's really, really impressive because he doesn't have to win with his legs ever already. Like in the fact that he can find an answer. The other thing about him that the other thing we can, uh, I'm sorry about him, that's like pretty awesome, like that I just love to is his competitiveness. And this is why I think in the off season when the combine process, we into the draft, I think the coaches that we talked about before, but I think the coaches interviewed him. We're like, this dude's a, you know, a competitive psychopath.

He looks like a nice kid and everything like that. They had to play a couple of weeks ago where he's screaming at Josh McDaniels. He's MFing him because they had a burn a time out. And Josh McDaniels, of all people, who was a pretty intense coach was going like, hey, dude, calm down. Like, calm down. Like, you're okay. Even today he had that screen that got batted down by Miles Garrett batted it down. He's like, like just pissed.

He's like slapping his hands. He's going to nuts. He's mad at himself. So I could see this guy just like he's going to always be working this way, which is really, really cool. All right. That's a 20-minute Mac Jones conversation. But I do think there's so much to dig into.

Because I think the Patriot ceiling and his ceiling and what he's been, all of that is just worth considering. Because to me, it's a larger conversation about what you need your quarterback to do. When we watch guys like Dak winning the way that he is. And we've seen this entire era of quarterbacks, including the guy he replaced, win in this very specific way. to me the gap was going to be, can he overcome the early part of it? Because that's the hardest part.

And right now he's doing that. And if he's answering that, then Jesus, I mean, what else can we want? And that makes me excited about it because I thought that his growing pains would be tougher than the other guys just because he wouldn't be able to solve it in other ways. And he's been able to solve it in a way we thought he would as a five-year veteran. And that to me is incredibly impressive. and it has changed the way that I think about this team right now and moving forward. All right.

Absolutely. Let's get to, you have my attention. Gentlemen, you have my curiosity. Now you have my attention. All right. Every week, the wall of stimuli that is an NFL Sunday is sometimes hard to sift through. There's a million things going on. We like to pick out two or three performances that kind of made us sit up and take notice over the course of the day.

And I want to start with Justin, Jefferson, who has my attention, nine catches 143 yards in the Vikings 27 to 20 win over the Chargers. Sometimes you see a box score and you see what a guy put up over the course of a game and maybe it's a little bit empty. You know, it's a catch here and there that didn't have a huge impact on the game necessarily. He made so many monstrous plays in this game. Huge third down conversions. He caught nine of his 11 targets in this game. He had nearly 48% of the Vikings air yards. He was as important to an offensive performance as a wide receiver can be in the ways that he affected the game today.

And how he won on each one. Yes. I mean, the display. Different flavor. Every time. I tweeted the one clip about him doing on a run play. He's a competitive dude. That's why I was high on Justin Jefferson coming in was he was a blocker and he's working from the slot even though he's a taller guy.

And I was like, oh, this guy's got great feel. he's competitive. And so he doesn't take, he's the ex-receiver away from the run play. He doesn't just kind of jog off and whatever. He's working on his releases. He's making the corner feel uncomfortable. And today, it was awesome display of like his flexibility, which I know you have touched on so many times in such a great way that today,

if you, or today in this game, if you just watch all of his clips, all his catches, every play basically, all of his releases and how he just toe taps his legs. And just, it's like each of his legs is like on a,

he just figurates them. And you can see why it throws corners off because they were like, oh, he's about to get at me. And he still hasn't moved from the line. And then he takes a long stride past you. So like third timing is just gets thrown off. It's so cool. Like it's just like really fun to watch because he's such a funky looking dude. And on top of it, he's got incredible ball skills because he's so long.

That was the thing that stood out to me today. It's him just going to get it a couple times, including the third and six that essentially won them the game. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I know. And that was a monster catch. I mean, that's like, that's a big boy catch. That's like a, like you said, go and win a game.

A receiver affected the game as much as he possibly could. That was one right there. It's like that is, you know, that's what a star does as win you a game like that. And that's exactly what he did. And all the inbreakers he was catching. He's catching in traffic. He's extending. He's running after the catch.

He can do everything. Yeah. And that is I, today, kind of putting the performance into context, I think he might be like over the next five years has a chance. chance to be one of the best one or two receivers in the league. I truly believe that. If you were, if you were kind of ticking off the guys, Devante is getting up there. It's 29. You know, Tyreek Hill is almost 30, which we forget. He's been in the league for a while.

I think that, you know, so I actually don't know exactly how old is, but he's getting up there. I mean, he's creeping up. No, but I'm thinking too. And then Hopkins, too. But all those guys are getting older. All those guys are like, AJ Brown, I think, is in the conversation. I think that their offense is a little disjointed right now. Jamar Chase will see what happens with that. But the ways that Jefferson is affecting the game right now and how much more complete his game is now than it even was last year when he was just dominating people. Everything he can do. And that to me is that stood out today. It's the going to get the ball. It's the physicality. It's the vertical stretchability outside the numbers.

The one catch he had that it was an incredible play, the one he high pointed on the left side line. he initially tried to have an outside release. He didn't get there and then slow down again to create more separation. And then he does his little like flipper with the right arm to give himself a little bit more at the end. He's slithery. So, that's that's that is the word. He's slithery. And you watch him do all this stuff.

And then the third and 15 in the second quarter that he got the PI on, that is one of my favorite when, and he caught it. That because in that offense, they run all these. overs, all these big overs in that Kubiak offense. And that is why he's so terrifying because he's running this big over and he somehow throttles down those long ass legs to cut it back outside. The way he can drop his hips, hips that are like three and a half feet, four feet off the ground is wild. He just, he is like and moves like no other receiver in the league.

And he won the Vikings a game today because of that skill. I'm so fired up. You brought up that play because that, not only that the corner is outside press on him and he wins on an outbreaker against outside press, like heavy outside. And it's that's what good receivers do. It's like, doesn't matter what your leverage is. It's not like, oh, two men, you can't win any end breakers. It's like, yeah, he's just going to win.

Good luck. You better put a safety over the top and hopefully you can cloud it up and make it look like a little more muddled for the quarterback. But that's what it is today. It's just that he, I love that you're bringing up all the high pointing and catching, catching away from his body stuff because that's what it is. He's a complete receiver. He's not some finesse guy winning cheap.

He's not some, you know, just ball winner with no, you know, no craft to his game. He's just like a complete, complete receiver. And that's, I agree with you. I really do think he's already ascending to that upper echelon. And it's only to just keep going up as he just gets stronger and gets kind of more, even more nuanced, which is ridiculous. Terry kills 27. He'll be 28 next year.

So it'll be 28 when next season starts. He's creeping up toward 30. Justin is, I believe, still 22. Which is absolutely crazy. So that's what I mean when I say that. Over the next five years, we're looking at his prime, and he's 22 years old, and he already has this complete feel to his entire game. One other play that's not going to show up in the box score, he drew a third and 10 pass interference when they were up 17, when they were down 1713 to set up that touchdown. Just affecting the game constantly in huge moments.

The other guy on the Vikings I wanted to mention before we moved on, Eric Kendricks made two like stupid plays in this game. The sack he had early in the game where he triggers on a play action because how many times have we seen that play from the Chargers where they reset the pocket and allow him that launch point? It's their best play. It's like it's absolutely their best play. It's their best play. They run a play action for him to set up outside the pocket.

Kendrick sees it, triggers on it, and has. as just a monster blow-up sack. And then I think it was in the second quarter, six minutes left. They ran a deep over off play action from Keenan Allen, who was the number three receiver to the right side. So you're counting outside in one, two, three. Eric Hendricks on that play, steps forward with the play action, turns and then runs with Keenan Allen not only sticks with him on the over,

but picks the ball off. It was not a bad throw. Nope. He just stuck with him the entire way. Those two plays are just how many off ball linebackers in the NFL can make those two plays in a single game? And it's like, I wish the Vikings were better. God, I know. They're safe.

Every, but every time, every time, every coach wants their linebacker to be able, I believe a lot of people will probably say it this week. The robot technique is they want those people, the linebackers to be able to do that. Only about two in the world can usually three maybe. You know, Fred Warner is one of them. But it's like, it's really, really hard to do that. we've joked about a million times. Everyone wanted to copy the Seahawks defense. And then they realized, oh, our linebacker can't run out with a receiver.

That's a Bobby Wagner play. Yeah, that's a old school Bobby Wagner play or prime Bobby Wagner play. And the other one, I love that you brought the sack too because on those pull-up play actions, it's actually like a simpler protection for the offensive line because it's kind of like a naked, but they're kind of sealing. So it's like elephants on parade is the joke about offensive line. So they're just washing down. It's almost like a zone.

So gaps get created because they're all on the same unison and, you know, defenders are doing different things because it's play action. So that's just that's just pure heads upness. I guess that's the phrase I'll use. That's all that was. It's awareness. It's awareness. It's him being a football player and watching film and going, they love that play.

As soon as they wash down, I'm triggering because I have no coverage assignments right here because the line, the tight ends a part of that. Just awesome stuff. And that's what smart players do. The Vikings are four and five. They are very much alive in the NFC playoff race where that seven seats. is totally up for grabs. Their season is so bizarre because they have these guys. They have this handful of players that can do things so few other guys at their position can

do. They've lost so many frustrating games, but they're capable of beating anybody any day because of stuff like this. And I think that they're one of those teams. If I were in the NFC, if I were a contender in the NFC, I would not want to see them. I would much rather one of those other teams, like a Carolina, I think, who will get to or even in New Orleans with their quarterback situation or Atlanta. The Vikings are just, they're such a strange team, but they have these moments and they have

these peaks because of the talent that they have at some of these spots. And that was on display today. More than a lot of other teams, they have identities on offense and defense. And that leads to their strength sometimes leads to some of their weaknesses, but it's like, they have identities. They have something to lean on. And like you said, they've had some bad luck games, but they're not like They're a good team.

It's just sometimes they, you know, I don't know if the new stadium, it might be the Minnesota curse. I got to experience it for about 10 years or whatever it is. But yeah, it's just sometimes it just doesn't break their way, but maybe on the upswing in the second half. All right. Let's get to our next one here. Philadelphia Eagles, you have my attention. A 30 to 13 win over a Denver team that smoked the Cowboys last week. Yep.

And I wanted to dig into the Eagles because we haven't talked about them very much. And one of the reasons they got my attention. today is because I think it was one of those moments where I had to pay attention to what they were doing. I had to lock in to what that was. I still have zero idea what to make of them. But they're four and six, and they're starting to find, we talk about identity with the Vikings. I think they're starting to find what they want to be a little bit offensively. I mean, there was that stretch where they just weren't running the ball at all at the beginning of the year. They ran for 214 yards today against the Broncos. It would have been 220 without that horrendous Jalen Rager reverse.

And that, it seems like they're starting to settle into, all right, this is what we want to be offensively. We have this run game with Hertz, and that just gives us numbers, and we have Devante Smith. He made some plays today. They are better than I thought they were going to be. This team is 13th in offensive DVOA. Over the past four weeks, they're second in EPA per play on offense. I don't know what their long-term plan is going to be.

I still don't know exactly how to contextualize them, but they were impressive today, and they've had some moments recently. Ever since that Lions game, when they, of course, when Sheel and I, you know, had a, had a, have our lukewarm locks on it that, uh, they like just were like, hey, we're going to run the ball. Like, we, we have a quarterback that can run and we have a couple of backs. Our offensive line is actually probably the strength of our team. So like, hey, let's lean into that.

And they did. And really, it's nothing crazy either. They're running zone read. You know, they just do it really, really well. And that's where the advantage of having a running quarterback can come, especially if you're going to play a Fangio defense that might give you those boxes. Last week, we were like, don't read too much into the Cowboys, Broncos performance. It was a good job by the Broncos, but don't read too much into it. Because one of the things that was prevalent in that game was

the Cowboys could still run the ball. Just the game script got away from them. Yeah, I think the Eagles coaches watched that film. They were like, yeah, I think we could do this all game against them. They did. Yeah, as far as like even quarterback wise, like I, I like Jane Hertz as a player, but it's, I don't know if he's the answer. I don't think, I think he's very limited as a dropback passer. I think the one time he's very, he goes one and he's done with his read. Sometimes I say that as a joke with some guys, but that's literally how he does it. The one time he was trying to progress and actually it stayed in the pocket.

It was a third and eight. And it was the one that Devante Smith had a breakup on Sartan. He's like going to the backside corner. And I know that concept. It was a deep passing concept. And on that, you never go late to that throw. That is, no one has ever taught that ever. So that's why I was like, oh, no.

I see a lot of that every time I watch this Eagles offense. Anytime they have to drop back. But he does create with his legs. So that's the positive of it. So I'm not really as high as them as others. But I am high on Devante Smith, who is wonderful. That play against Sir Tan today was wild. I mean, first of all, Sartan, like he did last week, he ran the route for him.

It was a double move the same way that the Cowboys started to do with Cooper last week. I was thinking of you when that happened. I was laughing. I was like, we talked about this. Sartan runs the route for him. Devante Smith just goes up and gets it. We're running out of weaknesses in Devante Smith's game if he's going to win 50-50 balls against Patrick Sartan in the red zone.

Obviously, the separation is very good. The nuances of the way he plays the position are extremely impressive for a young guy. But his physical profile is the one question you'd have about him. And then he's going to making that play. And then he scores another touchdown later in the game. and beats Kendall Fuller, excuse me, Kyle Fuller from the slot. Just on a little, I think there was a cover zero blitz in the, in the red zone. Yeah.

And it's just the linebacker was in no man's land. It was like a cover zero, but there was somebody sitting at the five yard line. He had the corner of the outside leverage no help inside. Yeah, I was like, why isn't there anyone inside? Yeah. But there was no safety. But then the linebacker wasn't blitzing. Yeah.

So it was a cover zero, which is with a wasted player, which is why you have an easy touchdown. I guess that's the benefit of Hertz running. I guess you could. I guess, there it is. I guess, hey, all right. Maybe that was it. Maybe that was it. But again, that seems like a weird allocation of resources.

You're playing man with no help in a five-man rush in that situation. Yeah. Oh, man, but, yeah, all the little stuff that Smith does. Like, he stays so friendly to the quarterback. That's why I loved him in the pre-draft process. I love him now. He was my receiver one. And it's, you were talking about guys in the top five.

It's like, or, you know, merge in the next five years that he's one of them, especially because just all. he's useful. Like it's just any route you'll put him on. He's good. He can create after the catch. Now he's winning, he's dunking on guys.

And he did that in college too. Because he so, he has, I'll say it again, he has rare hands. And he's so confident those hands that he can extend. He can actually use his length. And he,

that's why he can go attack that ball because he's like, I can actually catch this. It's not just him like, oh, I got a hand on it. He's like, no, I'm coming down with this thing. Like,

and that confidence, it just oozes. Like when you watch him. He just plays confidence. I love the rookie class. There's so many fun rookies, especially offensive rookies. They're really not. He's another one.

He's another one. Oh, I'm sorry. Another shout out, like Lane Johnson looked great. Jordan Maya Leida. I always butcher his name. So that's what I wanted to talk about because, all right, what is this team? And I think this year was all about how are we establishing this core moving forward. So let's start to stack up guys that are going to be part of this.

Devante Smith looks great. as it's going about as well as you could hope it would as an Eagles fan when you draft the guy 10th overall. And give my first-roup pick for it. Yes. Yes. You give my lot of that contract. He's your left tackle for a while. Lane Johnson's 31 years old.

You have Leonard Dickerson who hopefully is going to be a piece for you along the offensive line. You go on defense, Javon Hargrave looks like a monster. Josh Sweat had a sack today. Darius Slay, who will get to in a second, is playing, you know, that's maybe a piece moving forward. It's just about stacking up these guys as you figure out. this is a huge offseason. We have three first round picks, two of them potentially high. What are we going to do with this?

And I think a moment like today where you have those flashes from these guys is encouraging. The Darius Slay Fumple return today is like one of the best individual defensive plays you're ever going to see. He picks up that ball and I was like, what are you doing? He made a touchdown from nothing with some help from Teddy Bridgewater, but still conjured a touchdown out of nothing. And it was that kind of day for the Eagles. Yes. I get Slay on the return team. Geez.

My first thought was maybe we need to get the ball in that guy's hands. I know. It was actually impressive. Not like, oh, impressive for a defender. It was like, no, that was a football player, like going to work right there. That was, that's what the segment started, too. That's what's funny. We should tell it was like, Darius Slay, you have my attention.

It was like, okay, we should talk about the Eagles too. Because it was, but that's how impressed. As soon as I saw like three players from Devante Smith, I was like, let's just talk about the Eagles. Yeah, let's talk about the Eagles. We can group them all in. But I, during myelida, like he, meylaeta, meilata, my lotta, I think. Mylata, I'm going to get names right. I'm sorry, guys.

But they moved him to right tackle for a few weeks when Lane Johnson went down. It was, okay, he was up and down. And still you can see the talent there. And now get him back to the left side. It's like, oh, yeah. Yeah, that's why you were, you were looking pretty good early at that spot. So I got to get props to him that they signed them really kind of got him in a nice spot, like before he, they anticipated this.

And that's, that's good. Like, good job. I'm very curious how they use those first round picks, though. I feel like a package is coming for some thrower of the football. And that might make sense. But I think that's the thing. Can you surround that guy with pieces? And I think that was what the season was all about.

It was who is going to be around as we kind of retool this thing in what is going to be a pivotal offseason? And I think today is the type of day. We're like, all right, we have a couple answers. And the outlook for what's coming over the next 12 months is maybe a little bit better than we would have thought a month ago. Put it this way. But when this team was struggling, we did a show with Lindsay and we did the worst roster in the NFL where our pick was.

And I said, well, we all said non-Texans category. And I was like, hey, I'll throw on the Eagles in there. And I'm eating crow. Like I would say defense,

they still need some help there, but it's like, they have a lot more pieces than I even gave him credit for. What do you think about Siriani? Like, how would you gauge what he has done so far? I have no idea, man.

Like, it's, it's really a throw your hands up kind of thing. It is. Because the offense. It doesn't look that different than what I've seen before. Like there's still the hip slot stuff. I don't know.

It's like it doesn't look that different. And I was real low on him. Okay, he adjusted. I'll give him credit because they weren't running the ball. And now they run the ball. It's like, okay. So I'll get, that's one feather in his cap. Someone on that offensive staff dictated that they run the ball.

So I'll give it to that coach. So I have no idea, man. I wish I did. But I have no idea what to make of them. So TBD. All right. We got one more here. And it is time for the State Farm,

surprisingly great performance of the week presented by State Farm. I want to give it to the Carolina Panthers, who had a big win over a Cardinals team that even without Kyler Murray absolutely stumped the Niners the last time that we saw them. And this is a Carolina team that has had a strange week, right? Sam Darnold gets hurt. They signed Cam Newton. We had a long conversation about the Panthers on the show after the Newton news came out.

I think there was a big question about, all right, what is this team moving forward? They are scrambling to fill this position. Teddy Bridgewater is a $17 million dead cap hit this year. Sam Donald's on the hook for $18 million next year. They're giving Cam Newton $4.5 million guaranteed over the rest of the season. The target is moving. Do they know what they want to be? But then they have a game like today where you remember,

the defense is pretty damn good. And if they just have competent play offensively and they have a recipe where, I mean, Peter Walker did turn the ball over a couple times today, But they can not turn the ball over. They can lean on Christian McCaffrey and they can just manufacture some offense and lean on their defense. They're a team that is sitting at 500 and could be a legitimate playoff team for that number seven spot. And I just did not expect them to look as as good as they did today when you consider all of the moving pieces that we've been worrying about with them recently. Oh, yeah.

I was not feeling great about PJ Walker starting a quarterback. No, no. Neither was I. Yeah. That was not like an angle I was looking at for betting or anything like that. So it was, it was cool seeing Cam Newton become like a designated hitter and just come in and just, he's going to start next week. I know.

It was funny, though. It was funny to see him get tried out. But they. I did love the I'm back moment. I did really enjoy it. It was a perfect. It was very cam. I was very cam.

I enjoyed that part of it. I will say, offensively for them, P.J. Walker average 3.6 area arts today during this game, which. Wow. Makes sense when Christian McCaffrey is your best offensive player. So that's what they did. Christian McCaffrey got 10 passes today. Yes, that's all they did. They just ran angle routes to Christian McCaffrey,

which there are worse plans when you have their offensive personnel. So that's what I want to see. What does the offense consist of when Cam gets in there? Is it just going to be a run heavy off? Christian McAfree is not even healthy. He's still not even back 100 to 100%. So what is that going to look like with those two guys? their offensive line is still a mess.

But as long as they can get to a functioning offense, their defense is still really good. They're second in the NFL, an EPA per play over the course of the season. You watch like Hassan Reddick, the first strip sack that he had, just a disgusting move on DJ Humphreys. Their pass rush is still good. They had a ton of pressure today. And all right, so what does that give them for the rest of the season?

I don't know the answer to that. I think they could be interesting for the rest of the year, even if I feel like the way they've gone about this is extremely misguided. Yes. Yes. It's one of those where it's like, okay, we got to remember short term and long term. We got two separate discussions on them because even their, the defense we talked about early in the year, especially after the Saints game.

And we were like, hey, this is fun. Like third down, they're throwing some shit out there. They do weird stuff. Weird stuff. And they got fun, fast players, Brian Burns. They got Shaq, Shaq Thompson. Like they're just screaming every which way. It's really hard, really good offense.

The lions are having issues with it. Like even they're fooling the saints over and over. So it was like, okay, that didn't go away. Like they were fooling the Cowboys. When I watched that Cowboys Panthers game a few weeks ago, I was expecting, oh, Dax shredding them on third down, you know, pointing all them. No, they caught them a couple times. It's like, you're doing that to the Cowboys protection.

It's like you can do that to anybody. And that hasn't gone away. They were playing aggressive downhill. They were aware of the DBS, I should say. they're very aware, hey, the Cardinals don't really push the ball, and it's a backup quarterback. So, hey, that ball comes out, drive. And we're blowing stuff up downhill. It was a really nice game from him.

And I just want to end with a, I love the Cam Newton quote after. They said, how much of the playbock you knew? And he said, two touchdowns worth. The other thing that jumped out to me, the last thing I want to say, they have like 10 million cornerbacks on this team. So right now, A.J. Boyer, is. is that their slot corner. C.J. Henderson is like their fourth or fifth corner. When they run certain packages,

they have four to five corners on the field. Like, AJ Boya had a deep pass breakup when he was covering Zach Ertz in the slot. Which matters when you pressure because you're going to be isolated. And that's, and J.C. Horn's hurt. And they still have all these corners. It's a weird defensive roster.

It's a weird roster, period. But they can do a lot of different things because there were, that Dante Jackson's interception, he's in like the deep half of the field as an outside corner. The structure of their defense is very odd, and they make it work for themselves. So I think their defense is still going to be hard to play against,

and if their offense can just find some stability over the rest of the year, I think that they could be an annoying team in the AFC. Oh, especially if they get the camera, I'm getting to go on. Yes. That's annoying. Like you say,

it's just annoying because it's unique. and it's hey defense is going to give you issues on every third down and in the run game we have to deal with CMC choice routes that's not a lot of guys can defend that and also we have to go cam run game like and enough speed with our other guys it's like it's like an old panthers team the the old yeah it's just yeah it's funny it's funny talking about them a little bit why don't you explain this to me like i am an eight year old all right every week some things happen over the course of an NFL Sunday they need a little bit more explanation. Let's start with the Seahawks getting shut out by the Packers today. Just in a really, really rough performance from Seattle's offense and from the passing game especially. Wilson finishes 20 of 40 for 161 yards and two picks. They could get absolutely nothing going. And this raises some real questions about Seattle, not only for the short term, but for the long term. I mean, obviously, so much talk about him coming back this week. He was rehabbing

27 hours a day to get back on the field. He does. The Rocky steps, you know. And this is what the Seahawks offense looks like. Yeah. Yeah. It's God, you got to love an Aaron Rogers, Russell Wilson shootout. Just an instant classic.

Just an unwashable game. It was, man. It was not interesting, which is not what I expected. Man, this offense, it's, the whole middle of the field is just not attacked. And when you play a defense that is aware of that, it is. you see this happen. And it was a lot of just like a lot of clutching of the ball because those outside routes were covered or felt covered.

We talk about the Packers kind of did what they did. They ran one more three weeks, some cover two, some cover six, you know, robber mixed it all well. But he was feeling the rush a lot more. Russ is a scrambler. Like he can operate from the pocket, but he can move around, do his thing. You could just kind of not feel that juice anymore when he has to create. So a guy being forced that used to have that kind of button.

He can just break glass of case of emergency. There's commercials. Remember the fun NFL commercial with him scrambling around, the Patriots chasing him. It's like a real fun. It's not doing that much anymore. So if you take that kind of part away of your game and he's trying to be a true dropback quarterback from the pocket, and you got going one and done on reads, it becomes really hard. And that's kind of what was going on today.

The outside stuff looked all covered. They were running stick a few times because, of course they are. Everybody runs stick. And guys are just getting jumped. The spacing's bad on it. You see D.K. Metcalf and the receiver just being tight on everything. Like, it just, every feeling, again, we talk about this with bad offenses. I'm not going to say bad, bad, but it's just, it felt hard.

Everything feels hard. And Russell, they're not getting those cheapies. Used to be, hey, you want to run this against you? You want to run a robber against us? Russell's scrambling. And he's going to scramble for 22 yards. And it's going to be really annoying. Don't really have that option anymore.

And so now you see some of the limitations. Yeah, the fingers hurting them. I mean, you can tell the fingers hurting them. He missed some throws today. He sailed a couple of balls. I mean, there was that one ball in the flat to Tyler Lockett on the left side that he just threw 10 feet over his head. There were a couple of those today. He missed lock it outside the numbers multiple times, which makes sense.

Yeah. But they had no answers for the way that the Packers played against them. According to next gen, Packers used light boxes on 97% of the Seahawks plays today, which is the second highest rate by any defense this year. The average depth of their deepest defender in this game was 16 yards. Oh, boy. Average. So on a given play, the Packers had somebody 16 yards down the field, which makes sense.

That's how the Packers have played this year. They are Joe Barry is running a lot of the stuff that the Rams did. They want you to have to work underneath. The Seahawks just can't do that. They are not a precise offense. That is not the way that they want to play. And when Russell isn't there to get those cheap yards with his legs and they don't have those chunk gains down the field, they don't really have much of anything.

And it was funny to watch this game today where on the first play, they, Seahawks ran the ball, Gerald Everett comes across the formation to kick out Rishon Gary. And Roshan Gary put his elbow in Gerald Everett's chin. He was like, all right, well, I guess it's going to be that kind of game today. And it was funny watching this Packers team that has not done this very much over the years, physically take it to the Seattle offense. and they did it for chunks of this game. Kenny Clark was a monster for large swaths of this game. 93, the rookie whose name I can't remember. He is an interesting piece in the run game.

If they're going to play with these light boxes, he had some moments today where he's jarring people into the backfield. Devondre Campbell had a couple really nice plays again today. And you watch that team, and it's like, all right, if they're going to be able to physically stick with people when they're playing this way, that's how you need to in the front seven if you're going to play with these light boxes, and they did. So you have all of these resources devoted to the back end.

You're not getting beat up up front, and that left Seattle without any answers. And now, what are the big answers? Because this team is three and six, I believe. I should have written this down before we started the show. I think they're three and six. And even in a very down back half of the NFC where teams are going to be fighting for that seventh playoff spot, that seems like it's going to be a tall order for them. And if it is,

what the hell happens now? If they miss the playoffs in a year where a 500 team could potentially get the five seed, get the seven seed, and Russell only missed a couple weeks, and their offense looks like this, and you're sitting here after the season ends, and you're paying Russell all this money, your coach is in his 70s,

you're not showing signs of growth in areas that you'd want to. You don't have a ton of blue chip players on defense. You just traded two first round picks for Jamal Adams, they're left in this strange middle ground where it's what do we want to do? I mean, do we want to hit the reset button? Is it time to move on from Russ and see what we can get for him to say it's a new era here? I don't think that's overstating it. It seems like we might be coming to the conclusion of something with this group in Seattle.

And you watch a game like today, it's hard to convince yourself otherwise. Yeah. When this was the same issues the Seahawks offense had last year, that got shot in hyperfired. So it is now watching this offense again where a team, it's, I'm so glad you brought up the average depth of coverage, A doc instead of A doc.

But with that was when I was rewatching the game, it was so funny how many times I couldn't see where the safeties are because that's where you look. You look at where safeties are. When you start to play, that's where you're checking the coverage. So many times I couldn't even tell because I was like, I think that's why when I was bringing this up,

it was like, I can tell when it's single high because the guy comes down. but it was like, I think they're in two or six. Like, it doesn't make a guess because I couldn't see them. They're so far off the screen. And especially on third down because it made sense. But the fact that that has now given this offense issues, whoever is calling plays and designing stuff,

it's like, okay, well, then it's probably on the players. Yeah. And yeah, obviously Russell and stuff. But I also just, yeah, like you say with this franchise, Jamal Adams, I was straight up said it, he's not good in coverage. He's bad. And they hide them.

If this is supposed to be the star of your team, team and he's getting hidden. And this is who you sacrifice, you know, your future for, a couple first round picks and you gave him a lot of money. That's not good. Like, you want, you want your stars to be kind of scheme proof. We talked about that before. You want them to be scheme proof.

You don't want to be limited. They hide them. Like, they'll run three weeks and they put them like way off to the side. They don't run it like robber with Mika Fitzpatrick coming down, reading shit. It's, no, they're putting them off into the flat or matching with a running back and just going, okay, okay, go over there. Please don't get punished. Okay.

Now, but the fact that that's supposed to be one of their stars and that has a limitations. He's not, he's a good player too. Don't, don't get me wrong, but he has issues. Same with the offense, though, man. It's like you say, lack of blue chip players, I know D.K. Metcalf, but he has some limitations too. I do think he has busts sometimes. And I'm curious. It's just so many of their players are supposed to be, they're relying on have faults.

And that's scary. Again, when you don't have the early picks in the next couple of years. And like you said, this is a team at a crossroads. But when we usually say crossroads, we've mentioned the Vikings. a few times this year. I mentioned other teams, but with this team, it feels like, well, you kind of know what the road might be. Like, they already kind of hinted at it before.

We've been spoiled at what the feelings are with the rest of this off season a little bit. Kind of just feels bad vibes. Yeah. I think it's the best way for the whole team. It feels like it really does. It really does feel like we're coming to the end. Yeah. And we'll see what happens.

But that's the way it feels right now. The T.J. Slaten is number 93 on the Packers, by the way. Who's that one of that defensive linemen. I wanted to give him a shout-up. The other guy I wanted to mention before we move on is Eric Stokes. He's a real player. He's a real player. He had some really nice moments today, not only with Lockett down the field, but I want

to say it was against Swain on like a little, a whip or it might have been an actual scramble drill where he had to, he broke inside and had to come back with him to the pile on and stuck with him the whole way, didn't commit a penalty. It's like, okay, like this guy, not just recovery speed. He's doing real stuff. And it's the excitement and the enthusiasm about the Packers' defense is starting to grow. I mean, they're seventh in the league in EPA per play over the last month. They don't need to be great, and they're still playing really well.

So this is the makings of a contender. Their offense did not look good today, looked very disjointed, but if they can find their footing on offense and the defense keeps playing like this, they're going to be dangerous. I did not expect the defense to come on the way that it has here recently. And I liked how you said that had an attitude too. How many times that's the joke we had the last two years? Yep. You know, just, oh, just running on the Packers.

That's all you have to do. They're going to be all over the place. Not this year. They're physical. And again, they're winning in a different way. And when the offense doesn't have to perform like they can and they can still win like this where it never felt really in doubt.

It's like, this off season, that's what we figured out. We're like, wow, the Packers have a lot of good players. Yeah. They just do.

Like, That was like a realization doing these podcasts. Man, they just have good players. Like, wow, hopefully it comes together. And it's like, well, this is what it looks like when good players are in a good sound scheme. It's run well. And they're playing fast. And it looks really good right now.

All right. One more thing I need explaining to me. I need an explanation on the bucks losing 29 to 19 to the Washington football team. Same. I mean, there are a lot of confusing aspects to this game. Taylor Heineckee finishes 26 of 32 in this game. in this game. The Washington football team goes 13 of 22 on third and fourth down over the course of this one. And it felt like that. Some of those drives that they went on, including the last one that put the game away,

and me just meticulously moving the ball down the field slowly and slowly and slowly. I know. Four-yard gain, six-yard gain, two-yard gain. It was miserable. I mean, if you're a Bucks fan, or you're standing there on the sideline, but that is the worst way to get bled out. out the way that they did down there in the fourth quarter. I don't know if I'm worried about the Bucks defense. Like, you know, Carlton Davis still isn't playing. Sean Murphy Bunting still isn't playing. You know, got guys like Ross Cockrell and Pierre DeSere getting a lot of run.

I mean, that's... How's that not a fake name? Pure DeCere. It's guys that have been on the teams. Julia, Gulio. Guys that have been around, right? Like, both of those guys, we've all had some version of those guys on your roster at some point.

And it's hard to consistently play good defense when you're relying on your sixth and seventh corner in the way that the bucks have. So that, I feel like if those guys get healthy on the back end, they're probably going to be okay. On offense today, the most confusing part was just the game plan. I mean, Brady, in this game, I'm pretty sure the only guys that average fewer air yards per target today in the NFL were PJ Walker and Jared Gough, which doesn't make a ton of sense. Washington came into this game 31st in the league on EPA per play defensively against deep throws. Oh, I was aware.

And the box, it just chose not to push the ball down the field. It was just a very strange game from them today. It really was. And, you know, of course, things didn't go their way. Like the first pick was, you know, a fluke and yada, yada, yada. But the second pick was more like almost reassuring to me that like Tom Brady's human and he could miss a throw. Tom Brady can. Evan still said that was on him, by the way.

Oh, did he? Yes. Was he short? Yep. Evan still said that was on him. When I said, reissure. Okay, well, I just got taken away. Never mind.

Of course, he's a robot. Of course he's incredible. Or Mike Evans is a great teammate. So, but that was the thing. I love the third and fourth down stuff because, I mean, well, shoot, that last drive, Taylor Haneykey, like going 19 plays, 80 yards. We talk about four minute drive. That's what usually you're burning the clock.

It's a four minute drive. Not a 10 minute and 26 second drive. insane the game. Yeah. It was just, oh my God, death by a million three yard gains. But he had the scramble. He ripped the outthroat out. Adam Humphreys. He hit the slant, the scary Terry. And Terry took a shot, but came up strong with it. He had a couple of in breakers today. But he just no fear over the middle of the field. Good to see as a guy that's, you know, wins as a speed guy. He's more crafty than that. But he's a good receiver. He's a good player. But the all I want is to see him with a quarterback. It's all I want on planet Earth. Fitzmagic. That guy is real. He is a real player. And Taylor Heineke has his moments. Again, he helped win them the game team. He completed 80% of his passes against the defending Super Bowl champions.

I want to see Terry McLaurin play with a starting caliber NFL quarterback. They had the worst quarterback play in the league last year. And now he's playing with a guy who, for all of his exciting moments and for his, whatever you want to think of him as a backup, was it not. a starting quarterback in the XFL like a year ago. All I want is Terry McLaurin playing with a starting caliber NFL quarterback. I don't think that's too much to ask. It isn't. How about the EPA on the first and second down, third and fourth down, by the way. Washington on first and second down, okay, negative point two EPA per play. Okay. Washington on third and fourth down, 0.74 EPA per play. So you're essentially going from the worst team in the NFL to three

times the best team in the NFL. Yep. Just switch the downs and just get and they're all like third and nines too. Like it was like at one point I remember it was I saw the stat and it was like there were like six or like seven of 14 or seven 15 on third down average nine point eight to go. It's like that's that that's a lot of yards to be getting on third downs and to be converting like over a half 50 percent. And even the success rate 33 percent on first and second down. They were 71 percent on third and fourth down. It's like yeah, that that that that that that helps. So like we're saying with about the bucks. I'm not too worried.

They're going to get healthier. I think the offense just had one of those games. It was a weird game plan. I agree. I thought it was going to be bombs away on this team. I thought there's going to be so many seam balls and digs and overs, just over and over and I just didn't see it. So any given Sunday, I guess. I guess they knew about my lukewarm lock of the week and, you know, just wanted to, want to neuter that a little bit.

I'm going to be excited to come up with something for that. I yeah it's for me it was one of those just a strange game I mean when you when you play like that on third down you have that sort of third down efficiency it's hard to win and you have some fluky turnovers the bucks will be fine but it was definitely a strange moment all right I want to get to a segment we haven't done here in the last couple weeks but I wanted to revive it here and that is pump the brakes key I get to hear tropic thund here again the idea behind this was I was I was going to throw something out and you were going to tell me whether I had to slow down a little bit. And after watching their game today, after watching the Cowboys game, here's what I want to propose.

I think Dak is going to win the MVP. I don't think he deserves it right now. I think there's a lot of different ways you could go with it. We know how good Kyle Murray has been. You could have made an argument for Lamar probably before this week. But that's kind of where I'm going with this. you can see the water's getting muddy with a lot of these guys. Okay, Kyler's hurt.

How many games can you miss and win the MVP? We've had a couple weird games from Brady. He has not played well over the last couple weeks. The bills have struggled to find their footing offensively. The Ravens are very up and down, even if you cannot argue. It's totally unassailable what Lamar means to their offense. The only other guy, I think, that you're not. could make an argument for over the long run just because of how well their offense has been playing

and how well I think their offense will play is Stafford. Yeah. But if it's close, think about the narratives. Think about how much sexier. The DAC narrative is, Cowboys, coming back off the injury, all of the contract talk. And you just look at the way he's playing. I think if you project this over the next half of the season, what we've seen from them and just how good their offense has been, I think he's going to win it.

I think they're going to be one of the best two or three teams in the NFC. And I think his overall level of play, what their offense has looked like and all of the narrative elements behind it, I think it's going to happen. Am I crazy? Yeah, you're going to really twist my arm to go against the slughey. I'm talking to the wrong guy. I think full steam ahead. Cut the brakes. Let's go.

Choochoo. But it's he's incredible, man. Like what he does. every week. I know they won't without him. He was amazing. Amazing. Even I love what you're saying about the narratives because I kind of my little bullet points right here kind of see it the exact same way. Even with Stafford, I feel like some of the narrative can change a little bit where it goes, well, that's a team of stars. It's a McVeigh. It's the, it's the LA star team. It's not just one guy. It's exactly right. And then, you know, DAC, I mean, the Cowboys are loaded with great players,

but it's DAC. You know, it's, it's DAC and the receivers. It's DAC and the runnerbacks. It's deck in the line. You know, it's like, that's what it is. And it's like, can the defense support DAC? It's all about DAC. And it's the Cowboys. And I am with you, man.

That, if you just need to sum up, Dak Prescott's that touchdown throughout the CD Lamb, the second one. So stupid. Third down, cover zero, buys time. That route is a classic, classic Red Zone concept. You'll see it every week. It's two underneath routes, two unders, which are the square ends. And then the number three guy runs a deep corner. or red zone corner is a good way to put it.

That play, he's hot. It's cover zero. They only have five guys. They're an empty. Five guys protecting. He buys the time. And usually when guys are buying time, they're trying to throw the under just like,

okay, and then I'm going to find that under, let him win. Boom, we'll get the first downs. Third and seven, we get a five, maybe breaks the tackle and scores.

Not Dak. Nah. You know, he's not a dicker or ducker. Like that, we might think he is with the A dot itself. It's like, nope, when he has a chance to gash you,

you do not. Why do people keep blitzing this guy? Don't blitz them. Don't blitz them because he just does this. He just buys time, finds it. And not only is he buying time with pressure right in his face, going to, working to his left, throwing to his left, puts it right on the money.

Actually brings C. Because he knows he can put that into space. He knows exactly what they're in. He knows where he's not going to get hurt. As long as he puts it in that open space, that's going to be a touchdown or it's going to be incomplete. It's one of those two. Yes.

And that awareness is what has separated him right now. He has such an incredible feel. for everything that's happening with that offense. It's so much fun. By the way, the first lamb touchdown, the block by Zeke coming over and just wiping out Dion Jones. And that is one of the other reasons that it's insane to blitz this team. You have a quarterback who's seeing the goddamn matrix

and you have one of the best past protecting running backs in the entire league. Why do teams keep doing this? The Broncos didn't last week. They gave them a hard time. Today, deck six of seven for 72 yards and two touchdowns. against the blitz. Let's keep doing it. Dial them up.

And it's the old line. If they get, you know, they're getting healthier and Tarns Smith's down, whatever, but it's like, they're always on the right page.

Like, that's what's so cool about their protection. It's DAC helps them out, of course, but then everybody takes ownership on what they have to do. So like you say with Zeke,

he's not just like, oh, I'm just in the way. Ha, ha, ha, ha. Like, you stop DB or lineback that's blitzing. No, he's like, bringing it.

And that's supposed to be one of the stars when they're doing that. That's what we've talked about with Amari Cooper. Mari Cooper's fitting up on runs. It's like the stars are playing like doing the little things. And that's the team. And even with, oh, Michael Gallup was back. He looked great.

Yeah. But even today, like, or just like it's stats. So we're talking about narrative and stuff like two. Counting stats are good for deck. Like, I mean, just a traditional box score stats. He has good touchdown rate, you know, the, you know, average yards in a tap, all that stuff. QBR isn't that high, but he had 93.4 QBR today. So I think it's going to get a little bump.

He's first in DVOA for quarterbacks going into this week. Today, he had 0.78 EPA per play. It's a face stat. Yes, 27.2 total EPA, total EPA. For comparison, Mason Rudolph and Jared Gough, their EPAs today, negative 2.8, Mason Rudolph, negative 11.9 from Jared Gough. So that is, those are the spectrums if you want to see it. But it's what DAC is doing.

And he does it every single play. He does all the little things. It's not just cheap yards. They're running as what you're going to see, the most traditional looking NFL type offense. When you heard pro-style offense, it's what the Cowboys are doing and how he's operating it. We're saying it's a dying breed,

not a dying breed, a breed in transition. It's really cool to see a guy that's in his 20s still, be able to do all this stuff mentally. And then on top of it, push the ball, throw these drop dimes in, scramble for first down with things break down, just because he can.

He can literally do everything. It's really, really fun. So, yeah, I'm not really telling you to pump the brakes at all. I'm just, yeah, let's full of steam ahead. Let's, yeah, crank it up, full throttle. I mean, if you look at it, he's played eight games because he missed a game. So he has eight games left. The Cowboys have eight games left.

It's kind of a nice little, it makes it clean with a 16 game season. So if he plays 16 games and he stays on this pace, he's completing 70% of his passes. He throw for 4,600 yards, 40 touchdowns and 10 interceptions. that's an MVP season. Yep. For a team that will likely win as many games as the Cowboys will win, that is an MVP season. And I think with all the narrative juice and all the narrative momentum that could potentially get behind him and with some of the holes in the arguments for other people, I think it's going to happen. Yes.

And it's the rule of new. It's a new name. It's a new phase. People love new. If it's close between him and Brady, who's going to win it? It's going to be deck. It's going to be deck. Yeah, exactly.

They want new. So that's exactly it. I completely agree. I know. So that's the thing. It's like not all arguments make sense. It's numbers, narrative. All right.

Now the wind's just got to keep coming. That music instantly brings me back to a very specific time. Was that what Mick Foley won the belt, Kent? You can say in the chat. Yeah, yeah, funny. Oh, that was amazing. All right.

I think we have to give it back from Holmes. After the season that it's been so far for him and for the Chiefs, he throws for 400 yards and five touchdowns against the Raiders. And don't look now. the Chiefs are 6 and 4. There are no good teams in the second tier of the AFC. And who the heck knows? This is why I kept talking myself into them.

And I don't know how many of their problems are truly solved at this point. They played against a Raiders team that is a perfect matchup for them. That doesn't play like any other defense in the entire league in a world where everybody's going to say, we're going to play too high and we're going to make you beat us underneath. The Raiders are the one team that doesn't want to do that because of Gus Bradley and the way they play. So I don't know what this means for the chiefs moving forward, but it was a monster day for an offense that is still very much capable of this in the right circumstances. Yeah, they needed that cover three mouthwash. Yeah.

They got it. They got it. And you remember going like, oh, yeah, this is why teams stopped running cover three against the chiefs is because he saw this happen to them. And that's the thing with it is that Baham's, it wasn't like they played a perfect game. Like, they missed plenty of opportunities. And it was really good to see this offense. The tweaks are starting to happen. They're under center running the outside zone stuff.

They were using more tight ends. Like Noah Gray was getting shoutouts left and right. There's a reason Blake Bell and Noah Gray were getting a lot of name checks tonight because they're playing. That's why they're running more tight end stuff. And seeing Mahomes play more in rhythm, everything was, there wasn't the exaggerated stepups as much this week. There wasn't the, I'm already planning to ad lib when I can just. throw on time. And it felt like he was just so much more in rhythm. I think that's the best way to put it. He still had his crazy plays. I mean, when Williams just decided to dunk on a safety out of nowhere,

like, you know, like that happened. Like that was, you know, his classic where he moves up in the pocket. But he had so many plays today, it felt like where he was just truly dropping back, reading it out, one, two, three, out of the gun, boom, boom, boom, throwing a swing, throwing something underneath, letting stuff developed down the field and then finding something underneath. And it was cool. It was like, okay, this is, this is what this offense is. They've been doing stuff this year. Like, they've been moving the ball, but they were just like, I don't know what it was. Like, if they just like stole like a sacred amulet or something like where they just had bad luck.

Like, there's just stuff. Stuff was just happening to this offense. So a game that was just a little more consistent with for them and Mahomes and just the whole team. And on top of it, I saw this step from NFL research was Patrick Mowens who recorded his 30th career game with 300 plus passing yards. Yeah, breaks a tie with Kurt Warner. most such games in a player's first five seasons. He's played four. As I wrote that, I put the stat down, I was just sitting here thinking about it.

I was like, oh, he's somebody started for three, really three and a half. Like, you know, it's not four full seasons. That's Patrick Mahomes. And it's like, oh, yeah, you're a once in a lifetime quarterback, a once in a lifetime talent. And it's nice to see him kind of more in this element playing with confidence. And it's weird to say that about MVP, Super Bowl MVP, all that stuff. But he's human. Yeah.

You go through those ebbs and flows. And tonight it just, it's like, oh, yeah, here's this monster that he can be. And I think that if you look at the overall formula, right, the defense is never going to be great, but it just can't be the worst defense in the league. They can't be a walkover every single game. And they're playing better. Defense is volatile. We know this.

They probably weren't going to be the worst defense in the NFL over the course of the entire season. They have some players on that side of the ball. If they can be competent defensively and their offense can find its footing, it's wide open. It's wide open. And I don't necessarily think that they're as good as some of the other teams of the AFC or as complete. But in this year where it's so, so bunched up, I don't think teams want to see them standing atop the AFC West in the way that they are right now. Absolutely not. It's a saying a lot in the NFL is just get to the dance.

Just make it to the playoffs because anything can happen. And when you have the best player, that becomes even more relevant. I like that Trump card. When you have the most talented player, that is definitely a good way to think about this. I love always playing with the Ace of Spades. Like, that's really, really fun. I don't know what game I'm playing, but Ace of Spades is really nice to have. And I think that's what it is in the AFC, man.

It's going to be every game's going to be so matchup dependent. And the thing is, when you have Patrick Mahomes, we talk about scheme proof. Matchup proof, yeah, that's what, no matter who he goes against, he's going to give the Chiefs a chance. So, oh, yeah, you play them in the playoffs. It's just like, no. It's like, come on. Can't we just play?

Couldn't so-and-so snuck in? Like, can we, you know, the Broncos? Yeah, can we play the Steelers? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Could we have Teddy Bridgewater sneaking in at 500 or 9 and 8? So it's, it's cool to see the Chiefs in their element again.

All right. Guys, that's all we got. As always, thank you so much for listening. Please send in your questions for this week's mailbag. Mitchell Schwartz is going to come on this week. We're going to talk to Mitch on Tuesday instead of Wednesday this week, which I think we're going to do a little bit moving forward, just depending on schedule. So if you want to get your questions into Mitch, please send them in.

The number to call for the voicemails is 872-22-7073. Again, one more time. It's 872-22-22-7073. You can also email us at Athletic Football Show at gmail.com. Please get those in by 1 p.m. Eastern on Monday. If you're listening in the morning, I'd really appreciate it. We always are very thankful for the questions that you guys send in. In the meantime, please rate interview the podcast on your podcast platform for choice,

and please subscribe to The Athletic, theathletic.com slash football show. We will be back with Mitch on Tuesday or tomorrow, depending on whenever you're listening to this. As always, thank you guys for listening. We'll talk to you soon. This was The Athletic Football Show.