The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Mailbag: Coaches helping QBs, trading for coordinators, confused about the Patriots & more with Ted Nguyen

Episode Date: October 13, 2021

The Athletic's Ted Nguyen, @FB_FilmAnalysis on Twitter, joins Robert Mays for this week's Mailbag as they dive into your voicemails and emails coming out of week 5. Which current head coaches are HELPING their QBs the most? How should Bengals fans feel after the OT loss to the Packers? If you could trade for coordinators, what would your first move be? And more! Send your questions or CALL each week at 872-222-7073 / athleticfootballshow at gmail dot com. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays. Today's Wednesday, October 13th. It's our mailbag day, and I'm very excited to welcome my good friend, Ted Nguyen. Ted How you doing, buddy? Good, good. Week 5 and some crazy games ahead. So excited to answer these questions.

We got some good ones. As always, guys, I appreciate you sending these in. I appreciate everyone who called in. I appreciate everyone who sent an email. We try to get to as many of these as we can. We don't want the show us to be four hours long. But I just want you to know every single week. I know I always say this, but I genuinely appreciate you guys taking the time to do this.

It means a lot. It's the reason that we do it because of the quality of the questions. And your guys' engagement truly is something that I appreciate and I'm grateful for. So thank you again. Let's start with the voicemail this week. Kent, cue it up. Hi, this is Bryson from Lexington. And my question is, which question is,

which quarterback is most helped by their play caller and which quarterback is most disadvantaged by their play caller, especially in light of Herbert's amazing performance this past Sunday, just trying to get a feel for which coach is helping their quarterback or hurting their quarterback. Appreciate that question from Bryson. like these questions. Just kind of a landscape of the league. And I wanted to ask you this, Ted, because you do such a great job kind of digging into the granular aspects of the X's and O's of the game. So I really like what Sean McVeigh is doing for Stanford. Obviously, Stanford's helping him out too. But just as far as wide open guys, they've even left plays on the field where, you know,

Stanford might miss by a yard or two or two. So yeah, I mean, right now, you know, that Rams offense is cooking. and McVeigh is a big part of it. The arches concept you mentioned is interesting. Seth Galena from PFF tweeted this out last week, and he tweeted out a sequence of plays where the Rams ran arches. And you would explain arches just in a very simple way. The inside receiver kind of clears out, and then there's receiver one spot outside of him kind of follows.

So it looks kind of like a double slant in a way, but that receiver is following the first receiver that vacates that area. They're moving in a similar direction. So the Rams just run it out of a very, various personnel packages, various formations, but it's all sequenced the same way. They're all building off one another. And I think that's why it's so cool to watch this team is you can feel the sequencing. He understands exactly how one play goes into the next play, he understands how to set stuff up.

And I always appreciate that. And I think he has a really good sense of that. And you talk about quarters beaters. Sean McVeigh has such a deep understanding of NFL defenses and how they're trying to attack him. And I think he's really tried to dig into and tap into where the league is going, what the next step is going to be so he can stay one step ahead of that. I think that's what you've seen so far this year and the results have been excellent. I have a couple guys that come to mind. Kellan Moore is in there for me.

We've talked about the Cowboys offense a lot on this show. Obviously a lot of talent. I mean, both up front, their quarterback, they're receiving talent. But I think some of the stuff they've done with personnel, play design, again, the way that things build off one another. They've done a fantastic job coordinating that offense this year. I was kind of disappointed with the way they looked even over the first month of last season with Dak Prescott. They were putting up all these gaudy numbers.

But I thought the offense was kind of static and had some room to grow. They've grown. This full off season with that coaching staff and kind of letting Kellyn Moore cook with the receivers he has with Dak Prescott, I think the results have been excellent. The other guy I would mention is Kevin Stefanski. I was looking up some of the numbers today. How many yards per attempt do you think Baker Mayfield is averaging on screen passes this year? I was just going to say, yes, some of those brown screen passes are nasty, but I would assume, I mean, just because you sound like it's going to be, you make it sound like it's going to be a big number.

I'm going to say 12 yards per temp. 13.2. Okay. No other team in the league is averaging more than 8.8 yards per attempt on screen passes. The Browns are at 13.2. Baker leads the league and yardage on screen passes. 22% of his passing yards this season have come on screens. When you think about all the ways that the Browns make it easier for him, they're innumerable. The ways they use play action, the ways they use their screen game.

So I think that those two guys definitely come to mind for me. And then Sean McVeigh was my third one. All right. This takes us to our next question, this conversation about, coordinators to a great email from Mike. I love these sorts of questions. Mike asks, if teams allowed coordinators or position coaches to be traded midseason, who do you believe could make an immediate impact for an on-the-cusp team this year?

This could be a straight swap of coordinators or position coach personnel for another, or draft picks based on the value of the coach, or even current head coaches that are on the hot seat that would be better suited for coordinator roles. Totally bonkers and stupid question, but something I've always thought about and wondered if anyone else might have thought about it as well. It is not a stupid question. I love shit like this. I think it's really fun.

I had a couple that immediately came to mind. Did you have any that just instantly clicked for you? Yeah, I think Greg Roman is doing an underrated job with the Ravens right now. And I honestly think that he would do wonders for Justin Fields if he was the cornered to the Bears. Because right now, you know, watching the Bears offense, I think they're doing some good under-center run stuff, some good play action stuff, but they're not doing nearly enough with the option game with Justin Fields. I mean, you know, Justin Fields clearly has some things that he's working on. He needs to develop as a passer, but you could really help him out by having, you know, a strong

option game because he's an elite athlete and this offensive line is actually pretty good at run blocking, not that great at pass blocking. So if you have a strong option game put in there, And then you have some of the deep shot type of concepts that Roman is using this year to make the Ravens Pass the game explosive. And they're actually third in the league of rate of explosive pass plays with 20.2%. So they're getting guys open. And I would love to see Fields in a Greg Roman offense. I like that one a lot. That's interesting.

Mine was teams that aren't very good. So you could rent them for a little while. That's the direction that I went. My first one, I want the Washington. football team to trade from Mike Zimmer. I want to see Mike Zimmer coordinate the talent on the Washington football defense because I am so disappointed with the way that they have played. And for whatever you want to say about the Vikings team success over the last couple

years and how many games they've won, their defense is still playing at a pretty high level without a ton of top tier talent. I want to see what Mike Zimmer could do with the defensive front that Washington has, all of those guys on that roster. I think it would be fireworks. They would not be 29th in EPA per player, whatever they are right now, if Mike Zimmer was coordinating that defense. Now, quarterbacks will be really sore after a game with the Mike Zimmer,

Washington football team defensive line. I mean, man, have you really watched the Washington football team defense closely? So I watched the front. Yeah. Go ahead. I watched the front earlier a couple weeks ago. I talked about it with Mitch a little bit. I want to dig into what's happening on the back.

because obviously the big plays jump out. I was looking at some of the numbers today. They're 22nd in success rate allowed on defense, which that's not good, but they're 29th in EPA. So that gap is explained by all the big plays that they're giving up. And Rod Rivera came out today and said, you know, well, you know, it's only four or five plays that swing a game. We're not going to make any changes off of that. Four or five plays, you could give up five touchdowns on four or five plays. It's one of the bigger disappointments, one of the big. surprises in the entire league this year. I'm kind of deflated about how bad they've been.

They're blowing coverages at a crazy rate right now. Like, you know, you remember that one against the Giants where Steve Slaten dropped it? They blew two against Stefan Biggs. They blew another one against Cordell Patterson, the darling of the league right now. And they blew another one against the Saints. So it's just crazy what's happening there with that much talent on the defense. That should not be happening. I had two more. Said Joe Brady the Bengals to work with Joe Burrow and Jemar Chase. I mean, he can just be on the staff.

I mean, I would like to see him call plays. I think you would do a better job than what Zach Taylor has done for them there. But I still just throw him into the mix. I think that would be fun, even though the Panthers are pretty good so far. Send Robert Salo to coordinate the Seahawks defense. Jets don't eat him for right now. It's a long game there. He can come back in the offseason.

We'll address this when things get started. I think that what he did in San Francisco and the job that he's done as a defensive coach, they could only be helped by his input and his presence there in Seattle because things are not going as well as they might have hoped on that side of the ball so far this year. Yeah, now that Joe Brady's a Bengals one is good because that's another offense that has a bunch of guys just running wide open is the Panthers and Sam Donald's having some trouble hitting those guys right now, but I think Joe Brady is doing his job. All right, speaking of the Bengals, let's get to our next voicemail.

Hey, Robert, it's Jack Bengals fan here. I didn't lose my voice from the game. I lost that the other day, but is there any lessons or glimmers of hope that I can take from today? I get that they technically competed with the banged-up Packers team, but do I have any reason to be optimistic? or the Bengals just going to be frisky, I guess. Ted, me and Nate talked about this a little bit yesterday, just the takeaways we might have had from the Bengals lost yesterday.

I think the answer is yes. I think there are reasons to be optimistic. I'm curious what you think after watching the Bengals here for the first five weeks of the season. I know. I think there's a reason to be optimistic. I thought the defense played the Packers as well as you could for a while. but when you give Aaron continue to give Aaron Rogers chances

he's going to eventually take advantage. I think Awuzier is a real find in free agency. He did a pretty good job on Devante Adams for most of the game. And with that offense, you know, I think Joe, I criticize

that the Chase pick for a little while. This guy thought they should have picked Sewell. But seeing Burrow and Chase play together, you know, I think they made the right decision. And they still have some offensive line issues, especially the depth there. But putting those two together has really, I think they're going to be a good combination for a long time. And they'll eventually be able to fix that offensive line.

Just hopefully they don't get Burrow injured or anything for next season. I think he's really developing and coming into his own. And I think that's exciting when you have a young quarterback that is coming into his own. You have a chance to be good in the future. So, you know, watching that offense yesterday, I just got the feeling like they were going to score when they got the ball. So I see some good things for this team and they're a young team with some talent. Yeah, I think having building blocks is something that they've missed. They really have not had much homegrown talent over the last five years.

And that's how you arrive in this place. When you draft horribly in the way that they have over the last several years, it's really hard to win. It's really hard to be good. and now when you see them kind of building these pieces and Jamar Chase, a lot of this stuff has been weird. I mean, there's been some very strange big plays that he's had, but there's no doubt the guy has juice. I mean, he is explosive.

He can make some stuff happen. That's great. I mean, having that element in your offense is really important. Jonah Williams is playing very well for them right now at left tackle. I think Joe Burrow is going to be very good. I think he is the type of quarterback that you can build around. So now, and Joe Mixon is a final. running back, but you have a left tackle, a receiver, and a quarterback, and then T. Higgins is a good

player. I mean, this is, you can get going with this stuff. This is really a core that you can get excited about at premium positions. On defense, they're not homegrown guys, but they've gotten a lot, like Chinoby-Ewuzier played great again yesterday. I mean, he's just been such a nice influence and such a nice presence for them on defense. They're just stacking this stuff up. You know, I think that they're going to be frisky all year, and I think that's what you should hope for as a Bengals fan. I don't think they were ever going to be a contender this year, but you just want to be building in the right direction. And I think that's exactly what's happening right now. You know, we've got some questions about whether the gap between, you know,

some of Zach Taylor's decision making and some of the other coaches in the league are going to leave this team shorthanded. I apologize for not remembering who sent that email. You know, that could be a worthwhile kind of founded anxiety, but I still think there are a lot of reasons for Bengals fans to be happy about the direction that this thing is headed. Yeah, and I believe the guys, I believe Jack asked that question. Jack sounds so dejected in that voicemail that I forgot they were actually three and two, and they just lost to a championship contender that they took to overtime. So, you know, there are definitely reasons to look up for this Bengals team.

One of the things that I'd be excited about is I was worried that the Bengals were on a similar trajectory to a team like the Raiders on defense when Paul Gunther was there. where you have all these free agent signings, you have all these moving pieces, and you change out the component parts every year, and no progress is made. Because you just aren't well coached defensively. It doesn't matter what the pieces look like. Guys just aren't on the same page. And that was my concern is that this defense on Louaamarino would look the same way.

It has not. They've looked pretty good. This isn't a laughing stock defense. I don't think they're a top five unit like they've shown over the last five weeks or or so and what the numbers bear out. But I think they're a solid defense. And to me, that's progress that I didn't necessarily expect them to make, even with the signings they made this off season. All right.

Let's get to our next one here. This is not something that we have talked about on the show yet just because strange timing. The Thursday night game happens after we record Friday's show. And then Sunday we spend recapping what happened during the day. So we have not talked at all about Russell Wilson. Spencer sent a very simple email and said, So with the defense the way that it is and Russell Wilson out, what do the Seahawks do? Do they have an easy enough slate to stay afloat?

I don't know the answer to this. I mean, it's a very strange spot that they're in. They're two and three right now. They're in a division with an undefeated Cardinals team and a Rams team that I think all of us think is pretty damn good. It says that Russell Wilson's going to miss about six weeks. So four to eight weeks. They have their buy in there, which is nice. here are their five games over the next six weeks.

Pittsburgh on Sunday night football, New Orleans, Jacksonville, Green Bay, Arizona. I guess they can go two and three in that stretch. Then they're sitting at four and six. I don't really know what that means for this team in 2021. And with all of the questions about their future, I don't know what this means for this team beyond 2021. It's, I don't know, man.

It's a murky, murky place that they're in right now. Yeah, and I mean, they can end up losing all those, you know, all these games at Russell Wilson's missing because they don't have a defense to fall back on. Oh, I think they can still beat the Jags. Okay, yeah, they might be able to beat the Jags. But, I mean, just the defense is alarmingly bad. I mean, you know, we talked about Sean McVeigh being a great play caller, but against the Seahawks on Thursday night, he called the same play like five or six times. And they hit big on a lot of those plays. And, you know, Pete Carroll talked about after the game.

He said, like, things have, things that have happened in the game or things that we practice and is alarming because we're on it and it's up to the players to execute. And, you know, a quote like that just alarms me because, you know, they're saying they're working on these things and it's just not translating on a field. So maybe the voice, you know, his voice is not being heard. And I just don't see how they're going to get out of this. The best option might just be the tank. and try to rebuild that defensive line because right now they got LJ Collier. I know he's a first round pick, but he's been disappointing. Mayoa is supposed to be starting at Leo.

And this Seattle style of defense just does not work when you don't have a strong pass rush. So, you know, they need to rebuild this line and they don't have a first round pick. So maybe tanking is not a great idea. But yeah, like you said, this is just a very murky place where the Seahawks are at, right now. And, you know, it's tough to see how they're going to get out of this. I mean, you look at it. So they don't have their first round pick. They're sending it to the Jets. Russell Wilson, we're not that far removed from him wanting out of there. You have a 70-year-old head coach who's supposed to be a defensive-minded head coach. The defense looks like an

absolute mess. Their kind of core of talent next year, for the most part, looks like D.K. Metcalf, Tyler Lockett, Russell Wilson, and not a ton else. I mean, on defense, obviously, you still have Bobby Wagner, but he's getting older. Jamal Adams is there. I mean, this team just doesn't have that many blue chip players, especially on defense. I don't know what the solution is. I really don't. I think that they're in a very strange middle ground right now. And the questions about Russell Wilson's future, I think, are legitimate. And whether or not, maybe they should trade him next offseason and maybe they should consider whether they need a new regime there and kind of press the reset button a little bit. I mean, these are things I did not expect to ask three weeks ago, but if this is going to be another loss season for them, I don't know. I really don't know where they go from here. And I don't know if they can stay afloat. I think the biggest question with that is what the rest of the NFC looks like. You know, if they're four and six, can they potentially be in the mix for that second wild card spot?

Because the Rams and the Cardinals most likely will be in the playoffs. That second wild card spot, I guess it kind of depends on what happens with the Panthers and the Saints. Teams like that, if the Bears defense can continue to play well, can they hover around 500? But that's a lot to ask for Wilson to miss five games for them to still grab that spot. And if they don't make the playoffs this year, they're just kind of sitting there again wondering what they are. I really don't know what the answer to that is. All right.

Let's get to our next voicemail here. Hey, Robert. David. Robert. Anyway, Saints fan in Houston, Paul. The Saints are getting absolutely crushed by injuries, but somehow still winning,

lost Tatham Hill and Deonté Harris last week. And I'm wondering, like, how good do you think, the Saints could actually be, once we get all the pieces back, Michael Thomas, Toronto Armstead, Marcus Davenport, Deontaharis, if he stays out, Trey Kwan Smith, Bill Lutz, injuries are endless, but we're still looking pretty good. Ted, what do you think about this? What do you think about just the Saints ceiling this year with all of those pieces coming back?

Because when you list them off like that in succession, there's a lot of guys. I mean, they are still staying afloat, despite what's happened to the. them on the injury front. Yeah, I mean, I think that they could be a borderline top 10 offense if they get some of those pieces back. I mean, they're still moving the ball on the ground. They're still moving the ball with James Winston. And I think where James Winston gets in trouble is when he gets pressure and he starts just heaving up the rows while he's getting hit. And, you know, when you get obviously Taran Armstead, who's arguably the best left tackle on the game back, that's going to help his protection. You get Michael Thomas back. That's going to give him an outlet to get rid of the

ball a little quicker. So, you know, and, you know, obviously they have their pieces there. I think they're going to be fine offensively, defensively. I haven't really watched them as closely. But if the offense is playing at a high level, you know, I think they could get into playoffs as a wild card. I absolutely think they can. They've been a top five defense without Marcus Davenport, with some of the other injuries

they've had to deal with. They're still really good defensively. David M. Yamada has been suspended. He's going to be back soon. They've really been able to stay afloat on that side of the ball in an impressive way. Marshawn Latimore is playing in a really high level right now. He was fantastic yesterday against Terry McCorren. And they shut down that Washington offense for the most part, that entire game.

And I think that they're flying around on that side of the ball. And I totally agree on offense. This is an average NFL offense so far without Michael Thomas, without Eric McCoy, their center for the last several games, without Tehran Armstead. I mean, the guys like Calvin Throckmorton are playing for this team's James Hurst was at left tackle yesterday. The receivers are their best receiver this year has been Deontay Harris. That's all you need to know about this team. And Michael Thomas is potentially coming back. So I think they're going to be riding the James coaster all year, no matter what the offensive line looks like.

I think that yesterday's game against Washington was fairly emblematic of what it's like to watch James Winston. I mean, just the highs and lows are incredible. And I think that will continue. But like you said, if they can have a formula that looks closer to what they did in week one, where they're just going to try to run the ball, let James throw the ball 18 times a game, you get one or two big plays hopefully out of there. And that's what it looks like on top of having an elite defense. I think that does make you a playoff team in the NFC.

For the reasons we just said with Seattle, there really aren't a lot of other teams in that mix. and the NFC East doesn't have any team that's going to push you there. If Carolina falls off, then it's really just the bucks in the NFC South. Do we really have hope that the Bears are going to stick around with their questions on offense? I don't have a ton of confidence in that. I truly believe they're one of the best seven teams in the NFC, especially with all of those guys coming back. And that's just the type of team that especially that defense,

you don't want to play them in the playoffs. It's just going to be a group that you really don't want to see. And I think that's a pretty good outcome for the 2021 Saints. It's not that far off from what I assumed they could be with all of the roster talent that they still have there. Yeah, I agree that if they do make the playoffs with that defense, you definitely don't want to see them as a wildcard team because as we know, and you know, you talked about Winston could play like a top five quarterback. And he could also play like a bottom five type of quarterback. but if you run into the good Winston in the playoffs, you know, that could be it for your team.

So, you know, I think they could make the wild card and there'll be a dangerous team if they get there. I'm fascinated to see what the Jamis Winston Michael Thomas relationship is going to look like. Michael Thomas with Drew Brees made all the sense in the world, right? You have this exacting quarterback. You have a receiver that just incredibly good at finding space. And the way that those two fit together, it made sense to me.

I understood how those pieces worked. the Winston Thomas matchup is so different, and it's very, very hard to understand what that's going to look like in practice. I do think this offense will be better with Michael Thomas back. And even Treykwan Smith, I mean, just the guys they're playing with right now, the fact that they're staying afloat is very impressive. All right, Ted, real quick one for you here. I thought you could easily answer this. Tim from North Carolina said, I know teams run a lot of RPO's and know broadly what they are, but I see football Twitter calling out broadcasters for overusing the term or misidentifying them.

what exactly makes up an RPO and what differentiates them from other similar plays? RPO is a run-pass option. So it's basically a run play where the quarterback has the option to throw the ball. And they're usually, usually the offense leaves one player unblocked that has a conflict, a run-pass response to be conflict. So, you know, he might have to play the B-gap, but he also has to play the hook. So they'll run a outside zone play where they're reading the weak side linebacker. And if he triggers and plays the B gap, they'll throw the ball behind him on a glance route.

Or if he sits back and doesn't play the run, then they'll hand a ball off. And the offense will have a numbers advantage because they have one less player to worry about. And I think where broadcasters get it wrong is they just assume every shotgun run is an RPO or every shotgun play action is RPO. and where you can tell is it's watching the offensive line. If the offensive line is getting off and they're run blocking, they're getting down field, then that's RPO. But if they're sitting back and they're being passive and past blocking, even if there's a play fake, that's probably a play action play.

Yeah, that's always how I've tried to differentiate them is by watching the offensive line. And you can just tell with all of the called and not called, offensive or eligible receiver downfield penalties that there have been this year, it's been a much bigger issue and a much bigger topic than it ever has been before in the league, similar to the way it is in college football, where the rules are less stringent. So you see it called less often.

But I can't remember a year where I've seen this many offensive linemen downfield on throws. And again, both called and not called, just because of how many RPAs we've seen. So that's always how I've differentiated them by just watching the offensive line, how much they're run blocking, how much they're not. That's a simple way to do it. But that's always the way that I've tried to. All right. Jared Williams and Ryan both asked questions about just their concerns about the Browns future and their concerns about the way the Browns stack up. Ryan asked whether or not the Browns are more limited by their quarterback's abilities, by Baker's abilities, or an offense based on running and play action when they're forced into bad circumstances. Jared Williams asked if it's too nihilistic an outlook to look at.

the way that Justin Herbert erased some of the mistakes in that game, and Baker just couldn't, are we at a place where they're going to have a great roster, a good coach, and a GM, but for all the edges, those things bring us to a place where the quarterback cannot convert in big moments. We talked about this a little bit on last night's show. I'm wondering where you are on this, Ted. Where are you at about just Baker Mayfield's overall status and how it affects the brown ceiling as a team?

It seems like we get this question every week, but we've gotten it multiple times every single week. I feel compelled to address it. Yeah, I mean, I think the construction of the offense and the way that Stafancy calls plays as a result of the quarterback, you know, and we saw that with Sean McVeigh, how he was pretty heavy play action screen, and then all of a sudden he gets Matthew Stafford and they're at the bottom league and play action. So I think there's Mayfield definitely has some limitations that affects the way that

Stafansky calls plays. But at the same time, I think, you know, just judging by that. Chargers, Brown's game. I think it was a little unfair to expect Mayfield to make plays in the fourth quarter. He got stuck in some third and really long situations. I also think the injury is going to give this. I think year two in this offense is where we really have to evaluate Mayfield and his ability to execute in the drop back passing game.

But it's going to be difficult because I think that injury is really, you know, it's going to lead to him to him or it's going to be the cause of him missing some passes. as well. And it's still early in the season. So, you know, it's kind of a cop-out answer, but I do just want to see more of Mayfield to really make a judgment on whether he can be that quarterback that erases mistakes as the listener asked. Yeah, I think that's a really good way to put it. His inability to erase mistakes, I think is real. I think that they need to be playing on schedule, being able to dictate the game is really important for them. And I think really important for him. I think that's always going to be the case with him to a certain

extent, especially when you compare him to some of these other quarterbacks. Their viewpoint that I think is a franchise has been he's good enough to win with. And that's, I think, the company line that they have taken. And I still believe that's true. There can be a gap between Baker, Mayfield, and Justin Herbert, and you can still have a worthwhile team and a championship caliber team. I think that's still possible. And I think that's kind of where we are. I will say something I did not take into account last night when Nate and I were talking about the Browns. It's hard to keep track of this on a Sunday all the time when so many things are going on. I didn't realize that Jack Conklin had also gotten hurt.

So now the Browns were down, both of their starting tackles and their swing tackles. They had Blake Hans at left tackle, which he was playing there the whole game. They were trying to help him out. There's a lot of chip help. And then they had their fourth string tackle playing right tackle by the end of that game. You're missing Jarvis Landry. I mean, they have so many. injuries right now. I think that might have affected some of the decisions that they made later in the game.

I believe Kevin Stefansky said as much after the game when it came to running the ball on third and 10, for instance. That, to me, would be the bigger question for the Browns right now than Baker Mayfield's aptitude. It would be how injuries are affecting this roster overall. I mean, the offensive tackles are a huge part of the way this team succeeds. The offensive line is a massive part of the way this team has been built. if those guys are going to miss extended time in Wills and Conklin, that's a huge deal. Jarvis Landry's already on injured preserve, and I think that they can survive without him, but it still helps to have a guy who does all the things he does for them.

So the amount of injuries piling up to me would be my bigger concern with this team short term, and then we can address the Mayfield stuff later on if they do, in fact, hit a wall later in the season. All right, let's get to our next voicemail here. This one's from Dan in St. Petersburg. Good morning. This is Dan calling from St. Petersburg. I'm at this place and, of course, disappointed Lions fan. And wondering if there's ever been a wide receiver group currently constructed or previously constructed, maybe in the last 20 years, wide receiver group worse than what the Lions currently have. I know Hawkinson will add a little bit of flavor to that group, but as far as actual receivers go, is this the worst we've ever seen.

Thanks. I love questions like this because it inspires me to do a little bit of research and see just how bad it's gotten for other teams. I actually did look into this. It's not super easy to answer just because you can't see every receiver group lined up. What I did was I went back and I looked at which teams over the last 20 years average the fewest passing yards per game, which quarterbacks did while throwing a certain amount of attempts. there are some good answers here.

There are a couple teams from the early 2000s that are pretty rough. The 2004 Ravens, no wide receiver on that team had more than 35 catches on the year. A guy named Travis Taylor led the team in receiving. He had one season in his career with more than 60 catches. Kevin Johnson, who had a decent year for the Browns back in 2001, was their second leading receiver that year. And there's a few other examples. The 2,000 dolphins were pretty brutal.

The 2,000 Falcons were pretty brutal. But we don't even have to go back that far. How about last year's Patriots? Jacoby Myers led that team with 729 receiving yards. Demir Bird had 77 targets for the 2020 Patriots. He's not even a road. He's barely a rotational player for the Bears right now, who I think are 29th or 30th in EPA per play on offense.

but I have the actual answer. I have the actual correct answer for who is the receiving cord that might be worse than this Lions team and might be the worst one of the last 20 years. Let me present you the 2018 Buffalo Bills. Their number one receiver on that team that year who finished with 541 receiving yards was Robert Foster. Remember Robert Foster? Yes. No longer in the league.

It's not in the league anymore. He was the number one receiver on that team. Number two was Kelvin Benjamin, who had 62 targets that season, and 23 receptions for a cool catch rate of 37.1%. This is the answer. That 2018 Bill's receiving court is officially worse than what the lions are trotting out right now. I feel confident in saying that. Well, I forgot Kelvin Benjamin went to a different team after the Panthers.

What team do you try out for Tide-in as? Oh, the Giants. The Giants, and he was like, peace, I'm out of here. Yeah, that's, I think that's the answer. I definitely think it's in 2018 Bills, who responded by signing Cole Beasley and John Brown in the exact same offseason because they were like, we need to do something about this issue.

Yeah, I was going to say, it's credit to them for building that receiver core into one of the best in NFL that quickly after that kind of disaster in 2018. Wasn't there a chief's team that we, where their wide receivers didn't catch any touchdowns throughout the entire season? There was. It was the 2014 chiefs. Dwayne Bo did catch 60 passes that year for 754 yards.

And Dwayne Bo had been a productive receiver in the NFL at one point. So I feel like that might put them over the top. But other than that, their number two receiver on that team. They're number two wide receiver. The second in receptions on that team was Albert Wilson was 16. Donnie Avery was third with 15. So they had one receiver on that team, one wide receiver, that caught more than 16 passes. That's incredible.

That is a truly remarkable statistic. The Lions this year are going to push those teams just because, I mean, even the guys they sign this offseason. Tyro Williams and those guys aren't even contributing in any sort of meaningful way. So you have Quintas Cephas. Ammon Ross St. Brown is a fourth round pick, though. I mean, he is somebody that I think they invest. invested in to some degree. It's pretty bad. It is pretty bad when Kaleef Raymond is getting as much run as he is with this group, but we've had some in the past that I definitely think can rival it.

I sincerely appreciate the question from Dan. That is a very fun one. All right, let's get to a couple Patriots questions. Gabriel Schoenfeld asked, despite all the money spent a free agency, the Patriots, supposedly the class of the league coaching organization-wise, look like a mess. They can't hold onto the ball. They're bizarrely averse to passing the red zone, and they can't seem to get out the field in key defensive situations. Plus, we haven't drafted well in years. Should I resign myself to mediocrity and twice yearly blowouts against the bills

for the next decade? Micah Boys asked, he's trying to figure out the Patriots one week after nearly beating defending champs, they nearly lose to the Texans. Are they a good team, a bad team, a team that plays down to their competition? Ted, where are we at on the 2021 Patriots?

Because like Micah and Gabriel, I am very confused about exactly what this team is supposed to be. Yeah, I mean, they obviously haven't drafted well in a while, and some of their bigger free agent ticket guys aren't performing the way you would want with that kind of money. But, I mean, this team could legitimately be four and one if they could hold onto the ball in scoring position. They lost a late fumble against the dolphins at the goal line. They fumbled in scoring position against the bucks and could have beat the bucks. I think they, I do believe that they have a championship level defense. I'm not saying they're the best defense in the league, but they have a defense that could win them games and get them in the playoffs.

And they're doing things that Patriots teams don't usually do. They're missing tackles like against the Texans. A couple of their touchdowns were due to mistackles you don't see happen often. The fumbling problem, they take that stuff seriously and they don't usually do that. But it's happened in the beginning of the season. So I think even with all of the bad general manager type of moves they've made, this team could be a team that will be in the playoff conversation later in the season if they get some of these problems fixed. And if you believe that Mack Jones can develop into a quality type of starter, you know, I don't know if he's going to start playing close to the level of, you know, like a top five quarterback or anything. but with that defense and if this offensive line could get healthy,

they played a game with what, like four of their starting offensive linemen not playing in the game. If they could get healthy, run the ball a little bit better, and Mack Jones develops as the season goes, I think this could be a team that, you know, is in that playoff conversation, even being where they are now. I tend to agree with that. I think the offensive line health is the number one question.

Can they get those guys back in healthy? Because that was supposed to be the strength of this roster offensively. and it just it hasn't been i watched that texans game over again today those guys were living in the backfield it's not like the texans have marquee pass rushers they were struggling with jacob martin in a way that you shouldn't i mean you got cojuiced out there i mean they're just not the offensive line that we expected to play for the patriots coming into the year i still think they're past catchers on offense i mean it's it's not a good situation i mean the amount of money they played nelson aglow it's kind of striking just how little explosiveness and pop they have on the outside and what they've invested

than those guys. Jono Smith ran like a dozen routes or something, considering what they paid him this offseason, I still think the past catching group is very limited and it's going to limit the ceiling of this offense, along with Mack Jones. I mean, he's, I think he's operating in a pretty decent level. I think that their play action game

and their ability to kind of create space over the middle of the field makes a lot of sense just as an overarching philosophy. But I think the ceiling of their offense is extremely limited. They're going to have to run the ball. That's how they're going to have to just move the ball. That's how they're going to have to career. create offense with this group. And I think the offensive line getting healthy is the biggest question with that.

Defense, I think they're going to be fine. You know, yesterday a couple fluky plays. You got to flee flicker. You got to play down the right sideline that's just over a guy's outstretched hand and they miss a tackle for a long touchdown. So I think their offense is going to be below average all year. They're going to lack explosion and they're going to have to matriculate down the field. And it's really difficult to consistently create offense and score points when you have

to play like that. But I think that's how they're going to have to play. and I think their defenses end up being really good. So I think they'll probably hover somewhere around 500 and try to sneak into the playoffs. I think that's what this team is. And with a couple bounces to the ball, their record looks a lot better than it does right now. Yeah. And as far as, you know, the future, it just all depends on how you think Mack Jones is going to develop moving forward.

You know, it's tough to see me, for me to see him develop into a top 10 quarterback. but if they could keep the defense at a strong level, which it's tough to do, but they have Bill Belichick. And he could play around that, I don't know, 12 to 15 range. You know,

I think the Patriots can be a team that is in a playoff conversation for the next 10 years or so. But it just depends on how McDonnell is going to develop. Yeah. If you look at the investments they've made along the, on offense, it's not great. Nelson Huckle are $15 million next year. They're playing Hunter Henley $15 million next year.

John Smith's making $13.8 million next year. They've got about $24 million in cap space as it currently sits. And that's with an offense that really doesn't have any pieces that you're excited about. I mean, whatever you think of Mack Jones, the supporting pieces in the skill position rooms are not very good. I mean, there is not a lot of upside there. So they're pretty maxed out on offense in more ways than one. And it's going to depend on how much Mac Jones can develop. And I don't know. Similar to you. I have similar questions about where the ceiling of this group is with Mack Jones.

And I think their defense can be pretty good, but where does that leave you? And I don't really know the answer. I think it's fairly underwhelming, if I'm going to be honest. All right, guys, thank you so much for listening. We'll be back tomorrow with Lindsay Jones. We'll dig more into the John Gruden situation and kind of the league-wide ramifications of that. Some of the news that came out today from the Washington Post about the NFL's decision to not release anything else related to the Washington football team investigation.

Looking forward to digging into some of that with Lindsay. We'll also have our Chiefs writer, Nate Taylor-on, my good friend, to talk about some Chiefs panic. We very rarely get to discuss bad things they relate to the Chiefs, but this team is in kind of a strange spot after some smooth sailing over the last several seasons. Please go check out all of Ted's work and everything we do on the site. We'll be back tomorrow.

Until then, appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you soon. This was the Athletic Football Show.