The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Mailbag: The Super Bowl experience, how players adjust game day habits, the post-win celebration & more

Episode Date: February 12, 2022

Ahead of Super Bowl LVI on Sunday, Mitchell Schwartz joins Robert Mays to answer listener questions about the big game. He explains what surprised him the most about the week, how the game day dynamics are different for players and what halftime adjustments really look like. They also talk about the moment he remembers the most from when the Chiefs won, how the Bengals will try and game plan for Aaron Donald and much more. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome, the athletic football show. Today is Saturday, February 12th. I'm Robert Mays. Joining me today, Mitchell Schwartz. Mitch, how you doing, buddy? I'm doing pretty good. How about you?

I'm doing great. We are recording this a little bit earlier in the week. I'm still at Radio Row. A lot of craziness happening. There's so many things on the feed this week and just so many people that we wanted to talk to that we felt like we would move this show to Saturday. So if you guys are listening to this on the weekend, obviously the game is creeping closer and closer. But we wanted to give you guys something, a little bit of something pretty much every single day.

So we're going to answer your questions today instead of earlier in the week. And appreciate you guys sending them in. Appreciate you sending in the Super Bowl specific questions, getting to some of this stuff. Because obviously we have someone who has played in a Super Bowl. It's a unique resource to be able to tap into at this point in the calendar. So Mitch, let's get to our first one here. Ben Reznikoff asks, outside of the game specifically, what is something that was most surprising or unexpected about the Super Bowl experience? A cliche that players say is that they're trying to take it all in.

But what is actually something that was worth taking in or something that was just unique that stood out as you're preparing for the lead up to the Super Bowl? The thing that stood out from the players' perspective is how boring and monotonous it got, at least the way we did it with the Chiefs. And I guess kind of the way we did it is the first week, the quote unquote buy week, we almost made that like a quasi game week. So we had meetings, you know, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. We had practices Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. Now they weren't fully padded practices like you normally would. And they weren't as difficult as normal.

But the rationale being once you get to the Super Bowl, things get kind of crazy. There's a bunch of media stuff. Like the schedule is just different. You can't have your normal schedule because. You know, you fly in that Monday night is the big media event. And so you've got to be on your feet and doing that for a couple hours. Every morning, there's an hour of media availability. I mean, this is pre-COVID.

So this is the way it used to be. Yeah, this is not how it is anymore. But that's how it used to be. It used to be amazing. Yeah. So essentially, we had like two game plan weeks. We had a game plan week in Kansas City. And then once we showed up, we had as similar to a normal week as possible working around our obligations.

and it's just like by the ninth time you're watching the San Francisco Blitz tape and you're just seeing them destroy teams it's like I got it. Bose is good. Armstead's good. Buckner's good. We got it. But it's like it's the same meetings. It's the same film.

It's the same everything. And we actually were lucky we had Wuznowski or was Nuski on our offensive line. And he had to play with Philly like a year or two before. And he told us our offense line coach, Coach, Coach, was smart enough to ask him like, hey, do you have any advice for the upcoming couple of weeks? and his thing was like, it's going to get boring. Like, make sure that you don't get bored. Make sure you're paying attention to meetings.

You're taking notes, all those things. And sure enough, he was correct about that. And so that's one thing that I definitely remember, just the same film over and over and over. But in terms of being there that week, the obligations and stuff, I didn't think it was that bad. I know people talk about, oh, it's so crazy, you got to do media here and this and that.

You know, essentially you're adding like one night that Monday night, which I thought was cool. It's cool to, you know, go to a facility and have a bunch of people come around and ask you random questions. I think that was kind of fun. And then, you know, we're used to media obligations anyway. So just taking 30 minutes or an hour in the morning. I think we got the better schedule.

I think we got the favorable one where we got to do media like at 8 a.m. right after breakfast and then go on our way to practice. So we got the better schedule in that regard. And yeah, the week itself was fun. It's, you know, I don't know the take it all in thing. I'm not, you guys probably know by now. I'm not someone that really. shines on a moment and tries to suck it all up.

I usually look back after the fact. But it definitely was a fun week, a different week, and obviously the outcome of the game was what made it so special. I remember that it was in the morning because the breakfast room is the room that I accidentally stumbled into in the Chief's Hotel when they tried to revoke my credential and essentially kick me out of Super Bowl week. But the last time and the only time you played in a Super Bowl. Yeah, that is correct.

we've told that story before so our long-standing listeners will know that you almost got kicked out of the Super Bowl 54 shenanigans. But yeah, the breakfast were good. I mean, you could have at least gotten some food out of that. I got nothing out of it. All I got was like I saw whoever was sitting in that room, like Harrison Butker, whoever it was, that wasn't having to get to their media obligations yet. And I was scolded and sequestered by NFL security. So not having to worry about that because there's. no in-person availability.

As talking about watching the same film over and over again, how do you try to see it with different eyes? Like, how do you try to make it unique and not just glaze over by the 10 millionth time that you've watched it? There's not really that could have a way. Really, the only way to do it is to try to, like, almost trick yourself. I don't know if that's the right terminology, but basically pretend like it's the first time you're presenting that information.

And so you go in, it's a Blitz meeting, and you, you, you go in, it's a Blitz meeting, and you, you turn a page, you get a fresh page, you start taking notes. Maybe you wrote something down that week that when you referenced the previous notes, like you wrote something slightly different down because you got a different nugget of information. You know, essentially that's what, and we've talked about this in a previous podcast, maybe a couple weeks ago. What does an install look in the offseason and talking about installing an offense at five different times throughout an off season? Well, essentially, it's all the same information.

You're just hearing it multiple times. and so maybe you pick up something slightly different this time than the last. When it's all condensed in a two-week period like the Super Bowl, you know, it's a little fresher. And so you do tend to hear the same stuff over and over. But I think the best thing to do is to kind of assume that you haven't heard it before, you know, kind of take notes or go through whatever process you go through to take in the information, you know, try to make it as fresh as possible and see if there's anything new from the last time or maybe, you know,

that time, the first time you watch a blitz tape, it's like, okay, well, this is the structure. what they're doing. I got an understanding of it. But maybe that fourth time you're watching, you kind of know what the play is. You know, oh, this was the play where Bosa stunted inside and the norm said looped around. And maybe now you can look at like some minute detail that, oh, well, he was lined up, like head up on the guard instead of like slightly inside. And normally he's slightly inside and maybe this four inch difference in alignment is what's doing it. And then like the next play you can see, oh, is it the same alignment? Oh, but it's a different thing or it's the same thing.

And just trying to delve deeper and find these little intricacies that sometimes can drive you nuts and sometimes don't lead to anything. It almost seems like it might be overload. Yeah. I mean, at a certain point, like you're overthinking and over analyzing things to the point where it might be a problem. It might get you down a bad road a little bit. Well, that's correct.

And also when you're watching that defense align over and over again, like we used to have, so, you know, we've been places where either Monday or Tuesday, after you watch the previous week's film. You have a little bit of like a highlight tape of who you're going to face the upcoming week just to, hey, these are the guys you're going to face. You know, start thinking about them. Sometimes it's that Wednesday, the kind of the first true start of the week where the offensive line coach is showing you, hey, these are the guys we're going to face. I just want to give you a little preview. And so sometimes they like to show like, okay, this is Vaughn Miller's spin move.

This is where he beat the right tackle got a sack. This is his ghost move where he dips around the corner, sacks the guy. but it's like you don't want to see all his best moves and just watch guys get crushed as like your introduction for it. You'd rather see like, okay, this is what he's trying to do and this guy did a good job countering it. And like this is his spin move, but this guy kind of countered it. So in my career, we've had to tell some O-line coaches and some assistant O-line coaches like, hey, don't show all the sacks. Like the first thing you show us, don't make it be his highlight reel. And like in Cleveland one of the years, one of our offense line coaches, he would like,

put stars like a four star general or five star general and like three star whatever and he'd show I remember we were playing the Texans and he'd show like j j wats 20 best plays where he just like juke and backdoering making tackles getting sacks it's like well how can I how can I block this guy like you just showed that he's literally unblockable it's like all right now you got to go block this guy all week so yeah uh to your point there's definitely like sensory overload overload of too much information and also you just don't want to see those guys like beating other players over and over so it has to be the right clips. How much of the game plan is installed before you guys travel?

Is that pretty much set in the sense of this is what we're going to run? This is why we're going to run it. The actual mechanics and the nuts and bolts of the entire thing. For us, it was pretty much, I'm not going to say solidified, but essentially the coaches went through and that first week was, all right, we're going to assume we're playing on Sunday, like get the body clock right, everything's geared up for Sunday, go through the normal install week. you do the base game plan, the third down stuff, red zone, short yardage goal line.

As a normal week, you had a full game plan, a full, you know, like playbook and all the installs. And of course, as they get, you know, another four days to kind of look at it with maybe a fresh set of eyes from their perspective, they tweak it a bit. But it wasn't like, okay, we're going to install these 10 runs and then five of them didn't show up. And we added 15 more, like most of the stuff that we went through that first week. was what came up, you know, the following week once we actually got to Miami. So, yeah, they tried to make it as complete of a playbook as possible. Obviously, things change. And, you know, especially as you're running stuff, maybe it doesn't look good. And now you have two weeks to run this

specific route concept. And on the second week, you realize like, yeah, this isn't what we love. We prefer this other thing. And you have a little bit more time to flush that stuff out. But, yeah, we tried to do it where, you know, as much of the playbook was in and it was familiar. And once we were down there. It was more staying locked in and remembering the stuff instead of, you know, complete wholesale. Like, here's a full new playbook. And we got to learn it in a week that we don't have as much time to meet and to practice as normal. Did you guys install anything new before that game that you remember? Yeah. I mean, you're always installing like new stuff or little tweaks. We ran a single back power. I mean, technically single back power, but it was from two tight end. So

you could argue that it was kind of normal power, but the fullback's already pre-aligned. But like in the certain, I think it was a slot formation too. So in that specific formation, if like the defensive end was in a nine technique, then the tight end could insert inside. And if they were in cover two, then the will would like walk to the slot to cover the receiver. And then we wouldn't block him essentially. So the tight end would then wrap inside essentially for like the cover two corner. And then sometimes it's the safety and an invert look and he's replacing it.

And I remember Kelsey screwed that one up a few times. And finally by the end of the week, we got it blocked pretty well. But because it was, it was difficult for essentially the wing tied end to like know that it's cover two because of the slot on the opposite side of the formation. And then now he's got to block the corner instead of the, you know, Sam linebacker. And in a cover three luck, the corner's in the same spot to him. And it looks very similar. So like I remember that that particular play was. a newer wrinkle for us because we like the idea of like basically Blake Bell as our wide tight end

blocking out on these Y nine techniques and taking advantage of the space they created. Sure. But then we also had like a similar formation and once Kelsey motioned essentially if you were in like a one by three formation where it's a say a tight end to the right, the three receivers to the left, the tight ends attached. Well the nine tech would kind of come down to a six tech and then he would slant inside and it was pretty consistent that he'd slant inside. And so remembering, you know, from the offensive line perspective,

hey, when we're in this specific one by three formation, we're running these two plays, you know, on the front side, your D-N's going to slant inside. On the back side, he's going to slant inside. Like, you need to know what to do. So you're always kind of honing stuff like that. And then having the extra week to rep it and to really get guys, you know, like listening to formations and knowing what the formation is.

That's what you have the time to do. So next question here. Michael Fisher says, We always hear about how professional athletes are creatures of habit do their best to stick to their routines. How difficult is that for the Super Bowl, not just because of the magnitude of the game, but because of the mechanics of the game, you have a longer time between warm-ups and kickoff. There's a longer halftime. There's more commercial breaks.

It's always a little bizarre to me that teams play 19 to 20 games with specific rules, and that gets thrown out the window when it's time to decide the champion. I think it's a really good question. I'm sure the actual mechanics of the game day are so different. Was that strange? Yeah, a little bit. I will say coach hit us on that almost every day for a full week to make sure like guys this is going to be very different you know we're going to have everything mapped out for you but this is much different than you're used to and like you're like okay we got it we got it and he's like no like this is how it's going to be and part of it so

it really starts pregame's normal I mean you take the bus to the stadium you show up at the normal time that's pretty normal once and I think there was something we did like an anthem and then we did a second anthem or we did a like a memorial song. We had some sort of thing. Kobe had actually just passed like five days before or something. So there was a tribute to Kobe as well that we did. And it's like we're going to go do warmups like 20 minutes earlier than normal. Then we're going to stay on the field.

We're going to do a tribute. You're going to go here. This song's going to be sung. Then we're going to go back to the locker room. And then there's this like you take the field like 16 minutes before kickoff. And normally you take the field eight minutes before kickoff. And it was like, Like, okay, so when we get back out there,

coach was basically like, I don't want any of you, like moving around or warming up. Like sit down on the bench and we'll tell you, okay, now it's time to warm up because he didn't want, you know, this much of nervous energy and guys are trying to stay loose. But it's like if you're just running up and down the sidelines for 20 minutes and you start wearing yourself out and you have all your emotions kicked up.

So he was really good about pregame. Like, there's going to be a ton of time. Just relax. Like trust me on it. It's going to be okay. The in-game timeouts, I mean, it's just, it's a little bit longer than normal, so it kind of gets lost in the shuffle.

And then halftime, to your point, it's like 30 minutes, normally half times 12 minutes. And so we had a pretty regimented where like, hey, these first five minutes, we'll do this, the next five minutes, we'll do that, and then we'll do a warm up. And then the coaches will talk. And they kind of broke it down so that it was a bit structured. And it wasn't just like, yep, go sit there for 25 minutes. And eventually your coaches will come by and talk to you. And then you get warmed up.

Like, now there were segments for everything. And they made sure we ate calories and, you know, stay. in the proper energy situation, or I don't know how to describe that better, but everything was like very regimented and detailed and, you know, coach had been in a couple Super Bowls before, and so he definitely understood it better than some others do. And I think he did a really good job preparing it for us. It seems like having a coach that's been, having a head coach that's participated in a Super Bowl for is like a legitimate advantage the way that you're describing this. Yeah. And I think that's, I mean, that's one of the things with Brady is, I'm sure, last year,

He basically gave Ariens like, this is the schedule. This is how it's going to go. Not that I don't know at the top of my head if Ariens has been in one before. But he would have been in one in Pittsburgh in 2010, right? And so either way, Brady's been in more than anyone else. So I'm sure he also had a very specific system. And like, this is what we did? This is what worked for us?

You know, he had been in what, nine before then? Or one, six of them? So he had been to a lot. So he probably had a better, you know, knowledge than most of, you know, we've tried all these different things this work for us that did. And I prefer if we do it this way and not. So, yeah, having guys with that kind of institutional knowledge, like it is a thing. Obviously, it didn't really matter for us last year in terms of our knowledge from the year before.

But I'd like to think that the San Francisco year, it led to some positive benefits for us. 2009 for Ariens, the 2008 season, which I should have known. So Dusty Evilly asked us, which it kind of has a. a little spin-off on this. He knows the concepts of halftime adjustments is a bit overblown in season. But does that change with the extended halftime? Do you have more time to kind of go through whatever tweaks you want to make for the second half?

So you do have more time. I think to your point, you get to be a little bit too, like, meddlesome and you start to tinker too much. You know, typically, we talked about halftime adjustments last week, that you're not really making these wholesale changes. Like, a defense is going to play. I mean, it was San Francisco's covered. three, like they're only going to play so much man coverage and cover two. It's like, hey,

they're sprinkling that in more than normal, but we also expected it. Or like, you know, certain formations like, hey, Richard Sherman's not going to play corners over in a man look. Like they trust them against a tight end in his zone on one side. So maybe that's a small adjustment. So you definitely have more time for it. Coaches, if they have too much time, it gets to be a bad situation and pretty much all facets of life. So Super Bowl halftimes isn't the best for the way their brains work. But the way we had talked about it was, you know, the coaches would come in. They'd kind of give us a synopsis of what the previous half looked like, you know, what we like, what we didn't like. They'd go back. They'd talk about it a little more. They'd come back out and tell us like,

hey, this is the stuff we're going to do for the next half, which is similar to what you do in a 12-minute scenario. It's just, you know, you have more time to do it. And so the coaches came in. They kind of like talk to us and you can't like talk about the first half and not talk about what's going to come in the second half so they're like yeah we like these plays we'll probably feature a little bit more of this stuff in the second half so they came back out for like the second scheduled break and they're like all right so what are we doing next half and i think coach hack was like we we already talked about it i don't know what else to tell so it's more just like that's really funny you guys are on your own because yeah i mean you know we like these runs we don't like these runs this does

works you guys are doing great keep working like you don't need a second segment to do that so Yeah, I'm sure some coaches probably take that a little far. And I could imagine that McVeigh is a guy that sits at his desk for all 18 minutes and tries to maximize everything. His brilliant mind is processing in real time as he's throwing it out onto a sheet like a symphony. So for a guy like him who's got a photographic memory and doesn't forget anything that's ever happened on a football field, you'd like to think maybe it'd be an advantage. So in terms of that game specifically, was there anything unexplicated?

or did the stuff that they ran, the overall game plan, the way that they played certain guys, is it mostly what you anticipated heading into the game? Yeah, for sure. And again, that's a defensive structure that isn't going to change too too much. Now, they were doing some really creative stuff with like blitz schemes and we were trying to figure out, all right, in this look, you know, is Fred Warner going to be a down lineman or is he going to be, you know, an offball linebacker or when he gets up, you know, into a stand of three technique like how do you treat him and then it depends on rotation and stuff but for the most part

I think you know both sides played it pretty normal there wasn't anything you know too wholesale like I said I mean that structure isn't going to start playing two man for the majority of the game like they are cover three shell their cover three tends to play a little bit more like man coverage in certain situations but they weren't going to you completely shift the the tenor especially because I mean they were the best defense set here and they had the best front four yeah so it's not like they were going to be like, this is our strength and we need to change it for the chiefs. And it worked for three and a half quarters, you know, so there wasn't anything that was like, oh, man, these guys are playing us in cover four all day. And it's a completely different defense.

And we, you know, have to go to this next part of the playbook that, you know, isn't as prepared for it. I think it was pretty much good against good. And it was what was expected and it turned out to be a pretty good matchup. How relieved were you when they lined up both on the other side for like, nine, 95% of the plays in that game. Dude, you have no idea. That was my biggest stressor the entire two weeks. So I had an inkling that would happen.

So he, at that time. Why? Because he had primarily played over the left tackle for like 10 or 12 weeks in a row to start the season. At some point, I think maybe D. Ford got hurt or someone else got hurt. And he started to play over the right tackle a little bit more. But like the two weeks of the playoffs that they played, he was playing much more. the left tackle and the only times he was over the right tackle I'm pretty sure it was like in a specific bear defense they were running where he was like the strong side defensive end in the bear and

they wanted like d4 as a weak side defensive end or however that played out so I had a pretty good inkling that like if they played at full health if they played their normal defenses he'd really only be on my side in that bear defense and I just didn't think they'd play us in bear too much you know That's not like we're a big running team or anything. So I had a feeling I probably wouldn't have to seem too much. And like literally the only play he lined up on my side was third and one, bare defense, and we ran a speed option to the right and we optioned off of him.

And so I kind of nailed that, but me being the nervous guy that I am, I worried the whole time that they were going to put him over me. But no, if assuming all health and everything else, like Bosa played over the left tackle all the time, D. Ford played over the right side all the time. Armstead played over the right side. So kind of the way it broke down is in their base defense, quote unquote,

like Armstead was a defensive end. And as they'd move towards more pass-oriented defenses, Armstead would kick down to three-tech. D-Ford would come on. He'd rush over the right tackle. And Bosa was just over the left side. And I forget who his backup was, but essentially he'd play the other side. So I had a good sense that like run downs, run situations,

Armstead, pass situations, D-Ford. and I was very thankful that Mr. Sala complied. So just that day in general, is there a moment from the game that has stuck with you the longest? Just a play, whatever it happens to be that just, when you think about that day in-game, it's the first thing that comes to mind. In-game, I mean, I think Damien pretty much called his shot

on the game-winning touchdown run. Like, we got in there, we ran the ball. I think we ran power on the first play. It was a pretty good run. And Damon's like, hey, if you guys hold your blocks, like, I'm taking this to the house. And next play we did. And we ran like a weak side lead play to the left. Shirm had a pretty good sense of the Bosa-Fisher matchup.

Like, it's a four-minute situation. Bosa is super strong. Like he's going to play the point really aggressively and probably like Barry too much and potentially loose-contain. And I think that's what happened. So Shirm had a good sense. of where to bounce it, where to take that, where to kind of lead Damien.

So Damien's like, hey, you guys hold her blocks. Like, I'm taking this in. And I think he and Sherm were talking. Shirm was like, dude, I got you. Like, I'll leave the way. And so he, like, kind of called his shot in the walk-off run in a four-minute situation of a Super Bowl, which is like an offense lineman's dream. So that one, that one was a pretty cool one.

There was a play, I think, maybe first quarter, second quarter. I think Pat ran into the end zone and maybe got hit and, like, fumbled. And he took a shot. but he got up and was like, he doesn't necessarily like talk smack, but it was more just like firing himself up. Like, yeah, I'm tough. Like I forget what he was saying,

but it was pretty awesome. He was like, you know, I think they went to replay in the whole like three minutes. He was talking to the Niners and they were talking back and stuff. And it was like very competitive, but also like not derogatory or anything. It was kind of like clean trash talk, but in a good way.

So that was pretty cool. And that's, I mean, that's why we love him because he's like so competitive. and he likes to take hits, he likes to dish it, he likes to, you know, kind of just be a normal guy and not a quarterback that's too protected. What do you remember about just the aftermath? I mean, what does it feel like?

It just, I can't even imagine you've worked your entire life to get to this moment. Every single minute, every single terrible notorious Andy Reid training camp practice, it culminates in this. And like, what is that moment like? So in the moment, it was maybe 80 to 90% relief and like 10 to 20% excitement. And I remember sitting on the bench in the fourth quarter and kind of looking up and there were 10 minutes left and we were down, I know, 10 points or whatever. We just gave the ball back.

I was like, man, this would suck if we don't win. And I didn't think that we weren't going to win or anything, but I just had that moment. Like, we've come really far. This whole process would just be a total waste if we lose. And so it's kind of that relief. that like you didn't do all this for nothing. Like it was worth the extra five or six weeks of the postseason. It was worth all the extra practice in the games.

And like you said, kind of everything you've put yourself through for that amount of time. So it was a lot of relief. And then, I mean, the excitement of it. I still maintain, I mean, people probably call me crazy. My wife doesn't because she kind of agrees as well. So the post-AFC championship, like celebration was better and more fun than the post-Super Bowl one, because post-AACC championship,

it's like the excitement of, hey, we're going on the Super Bowl, it's at Arrowhead, our entire fan base is there, like it's a much more intimate setting, the confetti's falling, like there's not a million media members, there's only 200,000 of them. So it's just less like corporate, more intimate, you're surrounded by all your fans. You know, that was the first time we've been to the Super Bowl and forever,

so it's like a very special moment for Kansas City as well. So post Super Bowl, like it's a zoo. There's a ton of people pulling you left and right. Somehow every reporter gets down on the field. They're trying to get you for interviews. And you're like, I just want to find my wife. I want to find the podium. I want to find the trophy.

And like you're standing there and I like to think the chiefs maybe had 60 or 65% of the stadium. But you only have 60% of the stadium that's yours. And so the other 40% are bummed out and they're leaving and stuff. So it's not your stadium. It's not 100% capacity stadium. There's too much media. there's too many other people down there. It's just not as like intimate of a moment.

And then the other thing that kind of sucked is every, because you have so many other like media obligations and stuff, there wasn't one moment that we were all in the locker room together as a team. Like we celebrated obviously on the podium, you know, there are certain guys who wanted to get to the front and be on camera and be on TV a little bit more than they deserve. So that was annoying trying to like block people out of the way and stuff. And like, no, like you don't play like get out of here.

but it's really funny if you go back and watch like pretty much i mean any ceremony you can like see people like looking up to the jumbo tron like trying to like scoge over to make sure they're in the frame and stuff uh really funny but after after that like people hang out with their family they hang out with their parents they go back to the locker room at their own pace then there's the media tent which is off the field and you get kind of pulled there like hey they want to go talk to you go to this place go to like booth whatever and then you go at your own pace you grab food you get on the bus there's not like the whole team wasn't in the locker room and it wasn't you know coach calling us up and talking to us like a normal game which we had at the a fc championship game

so the combination of winning an arrowhead being there with the whole stadium everyone cheering for you and then having that moment in the locker room where the whole team is celebrating together after the fact that made that a little bit more special than the super bowl post game now the flip side is the bus after the super bowl going back and the plane ride yeah the plane ride yeah the plane ride ride was amazing. But the bus, I'm a bus one guy and so like coach reads on that one. A few of the other offensive guys. I think we

have got like five buses normally. So I'm a bus one guy. I think Pat's on that one, some of the other linemen. And so coach's wife walks on first and then coach comes and like just kind of monotone and whatever. And then he like flashes us the trophy and like everyone went

nuts and then you know we were playing. We are the champions. We're all singing together and stuff. And like that that singular moment you asked earlier and you cashed it with what part of the game sticks out to you the most or do you remember most like that moment on the bus like us all celebrating singing together like that's probably the moment that i remember the most from that super bowl and that kind of the whole celebration what is the moment you remember most from the plane ride is it the beer luge from the trophy No, I remember, well, again, you cashed it with from the plane ride. As we were driving up to the airport, I think the security guys and the guys who were given us, the police escort, they all kind of stopped and they gave us a little like siren salute and stuff. I remember Kelsey said something hilarious, like, oh man, I never heard sirens that were a good thing. And the whole bus just started dying laughing.

Like all like you know coach reads on there. I forget what other coaches. Like a lot of a lot of the coaches. And Kelsey is just like, man, I never heard sirens. They were a good thing. And we all just started dying laughing. So that was a, that was a pretty cool one.

He was the MVP of the postgame situation, correct? Yeah. I mean, he's the MVP of every situation. So, yeah. So there was the whole Super Bowl luge thing. I mean, I don't really drink. So that wasn't that like cooler and trusting to me. And after enough people did it, it just stopped being cool.

And it was like, it was cool. when Kelsey did it because Kelsey's Kelsey. But then like... Didn't he fall asleep on the plane with like a bottle of champagne in his hand? Correct. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, he was passed out for a lot of the plane ride.

But luckily we were able to capture some of the better moments before he fell asleep. So yeah, the plane was awesome. I mean, again, for people that haven't traveled like that. And this is why travel normally is annoying on plane specifically. Because they want us seated for one of the first. plane takes off but like if someone's standing in the back someone's standing in the back like the plane still takes off like no one turns off their phones you don't put your phones on airplane mode like they don't really care you can do whatever you want so you go on a normal flight it's like make sure

you're seated and your seatbelts on and your phone's in airplane mode and you can't do this and that and it's like our plane takes off like everyone's phones are on probably half the people are wearing seatbelts like maybe one or two people are standing like it's total chaos and so um that's like the cool thing with the plane is like you can just walk around you can do whatever you want and obviously guys are celebrating and some you know more than others and it's just uh it's cool one of the times that like playing music on the plane is is awesome and everyone's digging it um yeah it's just it's just a special time because you're all kind of like reminiscing and kind of going back over the game and the cool plays and stuff and it's uh it's one of those like few times that you remember of like again

this is what guys miss after the fact it's like that camaraderie that hey we accomplish what I miss. Yeah, it's like you accomplish this thing together. You get to talk about it. You get to reminisce, have fun. So that plane ride is, you know, part celebration and part, you know, kind of the talking about it and spitballing. That's what I miss about playing football is singing on the bus on the way home after you

would win games. Like, it doesn't change. Like, it doesn't matter where you play, how old you are. Like, that is what the celebration looks like if you win a high school football game or the Super Bowl. And there's something so pure about that. Yeah, essentially. I mean, we're, again, that.

This is a game where big dudes who play it, but it kind of brings you back towards being a kid and just that youthful energy and exuberance. So the last thing I wanted to ask you about kind of specific to this game, you've played in a Super Bowl, but you've also played against Aeron Donald before. I mean, in one of the most famous games that we've ever seen in an NFL situation, what does it like to game plan for him specifically? And if you're the Bengals offensive line or the Bengals coaching staff this week, what is on your mind as it relates to him? well game planning for him sucks uh there's really no other way around that because you know we started this talking about well don't show a guy's best plays it's like you can't really watch more than five plays without him making a splash play so you can't avoid them um and he does it in such like a i mean you could say unorthodox but like he's singular in his skill level combined with his

athleticism and his size like he's one of one so he does it in a very like specific way that that works for him and, you know, he aligns wide. And so as an offensive tackle, part of the equation is like, hey, make sure you don't fly out of there and give the guard too much space. Make sure you're, you know, constricting that gap and holding space and stuff. And now we've seen that work against tackles. They get too worried about the three tech. And now they take bad pass sets.

Well, you've got Hall of Fame Rvonne Miller and first rounder Leonard Floyd opposite you. So it's like, okay, do I really want to help my guard when he's probably getting center help anyway when I got to go block this monster out here? So there's like that element of, hey, the tackles have to chip in this week. You have to just make sure you're not hanging your guard out, creating too much space. There are certain schematic things you can try to do in terms of he's going to be the three-tech. Which side is he on?

Do you want to run at him? Adam, do you want to run away from him? You know, setting formations, shifting, you know, tight ends to try to get advantageous looks where traditionally maybe he's not the backside three-tech. But on this specific play, you want him to be. So you pre-aligned with the tight end to the right. He lines up as a three technique. You know, tied in motions to the left.

They don't shift their defense line. You know, theoretically you get him where you want him. That's the thing with him. Like, front side or backside, it doesn't really matter. Like, he's going to do his damage. I think the consensus is that you'd actually prefer to run at him. Because on the backside, like, kind of what JJ Y used to do, he's just so disruptive. And he can get out of a gap and still make the play.

That's, like, the thing with him and JJ, that they can freelance do their own thing, but it's so good and they're so athletic that they can get back to the gap. they jumped out of and it caused havoc and make the play. So I think ideally you try to set it up where you're running at him and obviously the guard has help. Now the problem with that is like he can win so quickly upfield that if the guard is like scared of it, say you're running a run play to the right. He's over the right guard.

He's on the right shoulder of the right guard. So he's outside of him. Now he can just sprint up and beat you over that right shoulder so fast and like you're scared of him jumping around. So maybe you don't, you know, get as far. far to the right as you to as the right guard. Well, the second you do, he also beats you to the left. And he also beats you so fast that, like, the center doesn't have a chance to cover that

ground to, like, help you before he does. So it's this, like, very difficult guessing game of what exactly is my angle and landmark on Aaron Donald, and he can beat you either those ways, or he can just run right down the middle of you and shove you six yards deep in the backfield and make the tackle with you. So it's a kind of a loose-loose proposition, and it's tough to, you know, go into a game as a guard and have a ton of confidence because he beats guys in all three manners. So you don't really know what the right angle is, what technique to use, what's going to be the best scenario.

So ideally the coordinator is setting that up as best as possible for you. You know, the inside zones, you have help from maybe the right tackle, the outside zones you've got help from the center, essentially at all times knowing that like someone needs to have extra hands on him, whether it's the tackle. Is that just like the four hands thing is what people say all the time? That's a prominent part of the game plan, no matter, like, for you guys it was. Well, essentially because, so part of it is like there's an intimidation factor that, like, you don't trust that you can block him because he's so good. Like, every guy deals with the stress of like, can I block him?

Am I good enough? You know, whatever. As an offense alignment, you feel better when you know you have help. Like, okay, if I, you know, have center help as a right guard again. If I go too far to the right, Donald goes to the left, he goes inside. Well, my center is there. So I don't have to worry about going further. I can be more aggressive.

And if he goes inside, I trust that the center is there for me. Whereas if you're one-on-one, now you're like, okay, he can be me in any of these three ways. I don't know what to do. I don't trust myself. I can't throw my hands because he's got the chop move and he beats me instantly. If I don't throw my hands in him on my heels, he runs down the middle and he's as strong as anybody at like 275. So you gain confidence knowing you have help. And you can use that help.

If your helps to the right, you can use that. If your helps to the left, you can use that. So scheming in help for that guard is a really big thing, not just physically, but also mentally. I think it's actually more mentally than anything, just knowing you have the confidence of another guy there for you. So, yeah, I mean, like, he beats double teams, he beats single teams. Having more guys available to block him is definitely beneficial. I mean, in a realistic sense, like Robinson's a good defense alignment, but he's not a guy that you need to send two guys to when you could send two to Donald.

And to get to the game planning thing, some teams and some, you know, offense line coaches, some offensive coordinators will say, all right, just slide to Donald every time. Just make sure that the center's going that way. The center is going to help. Some staffs don't like doing that. That kind of throws off like the blitz rules and the running backs pickup and stuff. And so that's what, you know, Staley did a good job of.

I think Morris is doing a good job this year is you can't just like rush for every time and trust your front forward because it gets somewhat predictable. in that we can just send the center to Donald's side and we can ensure that we have four hands on him at all times. You have to have enough creative blitzes that force the running back to block a linebacker one-on-one and forces the offensive line to slide away from Donald. You know, we see the three defense alignment on one side

kind of trying to force a one-on-one for the offensive guard. So there are ways for the defensive coordinator to take away what the offense line wants to do in terms of the help. And so that's where it kind of gets that cat and mass of how do we really handle him. In terms of the amount of attention and time spent on him as a defensive player, would you say it's the most of any game plan for any one specific defensive player that you've ever been a part of? Yeah, it is.

And it's, again, it's almost harder to scheme help for a three tech than it is for a defensive end. Yeah. Yeah. So we've, you know, talked in the past. You can make defensive ends uncomfortable with receivers, with tight ends, with a bunch formation, with a running back, you know, even if he's not chipping, if he's running a route, hugs the tackles outside pretty tightly. Like you can scheme all that stuff in there.

You can make them uncomfortable before the snap. You can't really make a three tech uncomfortable before the snap. Like he's a three tech. It's the same five guys and the same alignment every time. Like he doesn't feel any condensed pressure. He doesn't feel like, oh, this, you know, 270 pound tight end could just knock me off balance as I take my first step. And then again, as we're talking, like, yeah, you can say,

all right, in this formation, they're going to line up in this front. And with their blitzes, you know, we feel comfortable setting in the center that way. But you can't always guarantee where the center is going, depending on the way your protections work. So with edge guys, you can line up and say, we're going to have these two guys outside. They're going to chip them regardless of anything because it's built into the route. It's built into the protection. You can't always guarantee the center sliding to Donnell unless you just say, screw it, we're going to slide his way. Running Max got the other side of the field. And if they bring two guys to the running back side, we got to have a hot. Like that's tough to do. That breaks up

essentially what you've been working on all year in terms of how to block guys. So it is more difficult to scheme for a three tech. And as we talked about, run game, front side, backside, it doesn't matter. He's equally as good. You know, past game is obviously dominant. So you can't... It's an argument for why he's so valuable is that he affects the game in every single way and it's actually harder to defend against him than it is von Miller in his prime or

Kalil Mack in his prime. And it's hard to be that level of disruptor as a three technique, which is why most of the time those guys aren't as valuable as an Aaron Donald would be, but because he is that singular force, it almost makes him more valuable than any edge rusher could be. Right. And he's closer to the ball. So the pressure he gets, like, it happens quicker. And now, I know there's some studies about edge pressure still kind of gets to the quarterback quicker

even though it's not like a straight line, whatever. But like the way Donald wins in his quickness and his speed and his ability to slip guys, like he gets into the backfield and he's in the A or B gap. he's clogging up the middle. He's making things uncomfortable for the quarterback. You know, quarterbacks don't like feeling pressure up the middle. They don't like feeling like guys are in their face. And he does that. And so run game, the running back is taking the hand off and he already feels Donald is two yards up field. Like those are uncomfortable things. And so he's disruptive in a position that's harder to scheme help towards and he's closer to the ball. Like those are all things that

make it a lot more difficult. And as you're saying, like it makes him. kind of the hardest guy to game playing against in terms of a defense alignment for sure. Well, good luck to the Bengals this weekend. All right. That's all we got. I really appreciate you taking the time to do this. I appreciate you taking the time to do this all year. I know the people enjoyed it.

I certainly enjoyed it. Guys, game is tomorrow. Enjoy the game. Thank you very much for listening. As always, please rate and review the podcast on your podcast platform of choice. Please subscribe to the athletic. We have so much stuff.

on the athletic right now from this week. You can read everything Jordan Rodriguez written, everything that Paul Deiner Jr. and Jay Morrison have written on the Bengals. Please go check all of that out. We will be back on Monday morning. We're not going to do a live stream on Sunday night after the game just because it's going to be 2 a.m. Easter time by the time we get back to the hotel from the stadium, all of that kind of stuff.

But me and Nate will be recapping the game. It will be available to you guys on Monday. So please come back and check that out. For now, appreciate you guys listening. Talk to you later. This was the Athletic Football Show.