The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Midseason awards extravaganza with Lindsay Jones

Episode Date: November 9, 2022

The Ringer's Lindsay Jones is back on The Athletic Football Show, handing out some midseason awards with Robert Mays. Robert and Lindsay hit all the real awards—MVP, Offensive Player of the Year, Defensive Rookie of the Year, and the rest—but they also go off the beaten path with fun awards like Preseason Take You'd Like Back, Russell Wilson's Cringiest Moment, and more.Subscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTube1:13 Biggest surprise5:59 Biggest disappointment11:19 Cringiest Russell Wilson moment18:34 Preseason take you wish you believed in more24:24 Preseason take you want back29:03 Assistant Coach of the Year37:00 Comeback Player of the Year41:20 Offensive Rookie of the Year45:15 Defensive Rookie of the Year46:00 Coach of the Year54:16 Executive of the Year57:16 Offensive Player of the Year58:16 Defensive Player of the Year59:29 MVP Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Football Show. Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. Today's Wednesday, November 9th. I'm Robert Mays. Joining me today, an old friend from the ringer, Lindsay Jones. Lindsay, how are you? What's up, Robert?

It's so nice to have you back. It's great. It is great to be back. Just like old times, I see all the little logos and stuff and the intro. I get all warm and fuzzy inside here. So I'm not feeling great personally, but emotionally. I am very happy to be here. You got that midway through the season rasp to your voice right now.

That seems to be how you're doing. Plus a child in school bringing home, I'm sure, whatever she has. So this is a late November into December is a dangerous time for you, I'm sure. Yeah, but we're hanging in. We're going to get through this and it's going to be really fun. I'm looking forward to it. All right. Simple conceit today.

We're doing midseason awards. I love this shit. It's the perfect time to do it. It's been a fascinating season. There's so much to dig into. We have some real awards. We're going to do those at the end. MVP, coach of the year, all the sexy ones.

But I want to start with some made-up awards just as a way to talk about what the season has been like so far. So start simple. The biggest surprise to you from the 2022 NFL season halfway through. It's that both teams from New York are contenders. Here we're sitting the middle of early November, exactly at midseason. And if the playoffs started right now, both the judges. and the Giants would be in that field. And that is bonkers to me.

I've been covering the NFL for a really long time. And I can't remember the last time that honestly one of these teams was relevant, let alone both of them at the same time. And look, I'm not convinced that either- 2009-2010. Like the Rex Ryan-era jets when the Giants were still relatively competitive, would be my guess. Yeah, I mean, it's been a really long time.

And look, I don't, this is not to say. that I think either of these teams is actually really good. I think there are good elements to both of these teams from coaching, some standout defensive performances. But the fact that both of these teams are relevant right now, I mean, that it's stunning to me. We did them, you know, mid-season point, right? Where you go back and look at your preseason predictions and mid-season power rankings

and all that kind of stuff. And look, nobody was picking either of these teams to be playoff teams before the season. So that to me, I think, is the biggest. surprise. There's some individual surprises, but for a market and for like what it means for the NFL to have both of these two New York teams kind of in the mix right now, it's been really fun and stunning, like just absolutely stunning. The giants are up there for me. And it's for this reason. I could have pictured a world where the Jets were this good, especially on defense. This is a perfect example. Coming into the season, I believe football outsiders said that the Jets

would have a top 10 defense after finishing with the worst defense in the league last year. And when I looked at that, I was like, okay, like all the guys that they added, all the money that they spent, all the draft picks they pumped into that side of the ball, I could picture a timeline where the New York Jets had a very good defense this season. Their elements of their offense had been better than I expected. But the Jets isn't the most shocking outcome. The Giants being as good and as relevant as they are, that is shocking. because the Jets spent money this offseason.

The Jets were trying to be good. I believe they were a top five, top six team in cash spending. The Giants were getting worse. They were actively unloading salary. They had to. Yes. They couldn't spend a rookie class. They had to get rid of James Bradbury because they couldn't feel the team

if they didn't get rid of James Bradbury. So they were shedding the best players on their team and somehow they got better. And I understand that the, The stuff with the Giants, they've gotten lucky in some close games. They've had a couple fortunate breaks. The Giants are 12th in EPA per play on offense. 12th. You can't name a starting Giants receiver.

And somehow they're doing this. What they have built this team out of is pretty remarkable. So the Jets have a great story. There's so much to feel good stuff going on there. We'll talk more about the Jets. But for me, the surprising New York teams, the Giants stand out. So what's your biggest surprise? It's the Seahawks.

I just, we'll talk more about this because Gino gets an award for me. Spoiler alert, I got a lot of Seahawks stuff coming up. Gino Smith was in the wilderness. There were people talking about how this was the most embarrassing quarterback battle in the history of the NFL coming into the season. I did not say that. Were you reading the ringer.com? It was not from the ringer.com.

It was other people. Listen, the ringer has probably the second biggest Gino booster in all of NFL media and Stephen Ruiz. So you guys have got some tallies in the W column when it comes to Gino. We did rank the saddest quarterback battles over like the last two decades. And we definitely had Gino versus Drewlock pretty high up on there. So it was sad at the time. But now that's made it that much more exciting.

That's how I'm looking at it. The way he's bounced around. I don't want to talk too much Gino, but just the Seahawks in general. The Seahawks traded a potential Hall of Fame quarterback for a boatload of picks. And they're better. They are better on offense. a real legit playoff team right now on both sides of the ball when some people thought they would be the worst team or one of the worst teams in the NFL. So that's the answer for me. And then I don't

want to dig too much into this because we have plenty of talk about with him. But Tua playing as well as he is, that's also in the conversation. Yeah, I agree. I agree on all of those. I don't have a lot of other Tua stuff coming on. But yeah, I would agree on all of those. All right, biggest disappointment for you so far this season? For me, it's really hard to like separate these three teams because I think they're all so disappointing. But it's this entire like basically the entire like power structure of the NFC flipping the teams that we thought that everybody, not just you and me, I think that everybody thought would be the best, the bucks, the Rams, the Packers, all three of them falling off so significantly at the same time. And it's really hard for me to say like

who exactly is the biggest disappointment among those. Because, I just think they're all, to me, so lumped in together. They're all disappointing in their own ways. I mean, I had the Bucks as my preseason NFC Super Bowl pick. I don't think I'm alone in that. So the fact that they're, you know, barely hanging on in the dreadful NFC South, I think that's really disappointing. I think the Rams just being just a complete mess, like all around a mess is really, really disappointing. And then the Packers just, I mean, when we when we did our, you know, our favorite, our favorite pot of the year, right? Yumi and Nate when we do are picking our teams.

I don't know how many Packers I picked. I think we were fighting over Packers throughout that just because when you talk about pure talent that is on that roster, especially on the defensive side, the fact that they've been so bad. And now they, I mean, they have like a 0.3% chance to make the playoffs or something right now. I mean, it's really, really dreadful. So it's the three of those teams for me.

And I don't think I can separate and pick one of them. It's all of them. I absolutely can. It's the Packers. Okay. The Bucks have been injured, right? They lose Ryan Jens before the season even starts. Their wide receivers have been a little bit banged up.

Tom Brady is 45 years old. The end was coming for the Bucks at some point, and you could feel that. The Rams, same way. All of the bets that the Rams made, how many big-time moves the Rams made for their present at the expense potentially of their future, this sort of nightmarish season was always a possibility for the Rams. Packers have been a little bit hurt. There have been a couple guys in and out.

But for the most part, this is just the Packers team that they were supposed to field and be a contender with. And they haven't been very good. I mean, the offense has been dreadful to watch. For Rogers to be playing this poorly, for it to look as disjointed as it does right now, for the defense to be underperforming after everything they pumped into it. The Packers are the answer for me. My secondary team is the team that you have to watch every single week in your hometown. We got plenty of Broncos takes coming.

We'll get there. I mean, well, that one is absolutely up there. And it's mostly for the fans. Because if you're a Broncos fan, and you've dealt with this over the last seven years at quarterback, and the Brock Osweiler time, and all of the Drew Locke and the Trevor Simian year. Paxton Lynch. The Paxton Lynch pitch. I forget them.

There are so many of them. And then you make this trade for Russell Wilson. And you have an underlying level of talent on your roster. And you think, okay, here we go. And we are ready. We are ready to be relevant in the AFC playoff picture, even though all these other teams have these young superstar quarterbacks. And then this is the result where people are walking out at the start of overtime in a nationally televised game.

They're calling. They're booing in like the second home game of the year. They're calling for the coach's head within a month. And it's not. A month. It was like two weeks. Two weeks. And it didn't seem reactionary.

It wasn't like, okay, guys, everybody calmed down. I was like, all right, I kind of understand why everybody is so pissed off. So they're in the conversation to me, but I absolutely think it's the Packers. For the Packers to be out of it, out of the playoff picture by the first week in November is absolutely insane, even after Tray and DeVante Adams. Yeah, I mean, we just kept waiting for like, okay, the Packers are going to figure it out. They got to figure it out, you know, and Aaron Rogers keeps saying like, this is the best thing that ever happened to us. And it's like, I don't know, man, it just feels different this time. Like you're playing poorly.

There seems to be a complete lack of like understanding of reality going on there. And I'm just, and I've said this. I've been on the record saying this before, you know, I think even earlier this week that like I'm just sick of all the excuses of like, oh, but he doesn't, you know, it's all the new receivers and all this stuff. And oh, they try, you know, they tried to get Darren Waller and they tried to get Chase. I'm just, I'm sick of it. Like there are a lot of other teams in this league. We just talked about the Giants who have like no receipts. who have like no receivers and like they're still a functional offense because they're figuring out

how to get by with the players that they have. And Aaron Rogers isn't elevating anybody else on that roster the way that he should be. Aaron Rogers isn't playing well himself and doesn't seem to be accepting kind of the responsibility for his own play. And I'm just kind of sick of all the excuses and it's just not good enough. And yeah, disappointing all around. And I understand. I've said before they haven't been dealing with that many injuries. There have in some. You know, Elton Jenkins has missed two games. Sammy Watkins missed a few games. Sammy Watkins has looked awful when he's been on the field. Christian Watkins missed a couple games. I know Randall has been out, but that's not enough. For the offense to look this way.

Everybody's hurt. Everybody's hurt in the NFL. Look, there's no team that's like healthy. I know Bakhtiari's been banged up, but they still should look better than they do. This team is not what they were promised. And I think that's why they're absolutely my entry into this. Okay. Speaking of Broncos, speaking of Russell Wilson, one cat, we had to hit before we got out of here. Most unsettling or cringe-inducing Russell Wilson moment of 2022. What do you have for me? All right.

Well, so I'm going to be really curious to see what yours is because, I mean, I think they all have to involve like let's ride, right? I mean. Oh, mine do not involve let's ride. Oh, really? Okay. Maybe you've got like the airplane. The airplane thing.

Okay. I will say I would like to say, I've been on the record. So I went back and I looked. March 16th was the first time that I tweeted anything about let's ride. So that was right about when this happened. And I tweeted, wow, Russell Wilson's really trying hard to make let's ride happen. And then I attached to the stop trying to make fetch happen gift to that because it was cringeworthy from the very beginning. And I went back and I looked at the replies to that tweet. And somebody was like, this has to just be like a celebratory thing, right?

They're not actually, he's not actually going to say this when they lose. So the second part of that is the saddest less ride, which was after that Colts loss. And that was the only Broncos game that I've actually gone to this year because it was on a Thursday night. And I went to the locker room and he was sitting at his lot. I mean, it was just like devastation because that was like the worst football game any of us have ever seen. Right. I think we can like agree that just in terms of like, look, I was at that Taysom Hill Kendall Hinton game that should not qualify. At least that game was weird.

Yeah, it was weak. And like it shouldn't count as like a real football game because it was like two players who are not actually quarterbacks who are playing quarterback for both of those teams. The Broncos traded multiple first round picks and more to go get Russell Wilson. The Colts went after Matt Ryaner paying him $25 million a year. They were picked to win their division. That's absolutely the saddest football game we've all watched this year. I just, I mean, he did this. It was the saddest like, let's ride.

He walked off like the podium. Like he kind of whispered it into the mic and it was like, oh, he's still actually going to say it. So I think those to me were like, were really just kind of cringeworthy. I mean, there have been a lot, like, but when you could tell, like, from the very beginning that he was like, he was going to make this thing happen and that it was all very contrived. And, you know, it just, it always kind of felt like, are we, are we really going to do this? Like, we're, we're going to make this like, Red, let's ride thing. Oh, we're definitely going to do this. There was a moment where he didn't say it, though, right? Wasn't there a game where afterwards he didn't say it? Because he was so devastated. That's what I knew it was over. So he said, he did say it after the Colts game. And it was that really. sad like let's ride as he walked off the podium so yeah it was the Monday night game I believe um so then he didn't say it but then it was back he brought it back like a week or two later I think he did

it like after his Wednesday press conference and then it was certainly back in London a week ago um so I don't know now I want to know what yours is now I'm curious what have I blocked out more cringeworthy Russell Wilson moments from my memory it's to me it's definitely the subway commercial where he's talking to the camera. It's not, I mean, the blindfold one is unsettling. But for me, it's the have you ever done anything dangerous? I mean, a lot of people have meme the shit out of it and putting it into the Joker scene from the Dark Night is very good.

Any sort of weird serial killer monologue where someone's tied up in a chair, you could just put that right over it. It would totally fit. Everything about that is just not the work of a well-adjusted person. So who thought that was a good idea? What sort of publicist? What sort of commercial director was just like, oh, no, this is good. Like, this will be good for everybody involved.

I guess we're talking about the danger witch. And that's the purpose of any sort of advertisement. God, somebody's never going to advertise in the show. I guess it's never, that's the purpose of any sort of advertisement. But that 30 second clip or whatever it was, every time I see it, it just makes my skin crawl. Well, he's just entered this. zone now where like I don't think anything he does this year is everything is going to become some sort of a joke and like every single thing that he says and things that are even completely

innocuous like the whole like plane thing like he wasn't try I don't think he was trying to like I don't it just don't say it though just don't put it out there yeah do not publicize that even if you were working out on the plane and trying to get yourself right read the room no one wants to hear about that right so he is he is in that zone right now where like every single thing that he says is going to become a joke, it's going to become fodder for the people who want to just take all these shots at him. And I do feel a bit bad for him on this because like there's literally nothing he can do at this point that isn't going to become some sort of a meme or a joke other than, you know, without just like going on some

sort of a winning streak. He has to play well. I mean, that's that's the problem with this is we can put up with the bullshit and we can put up with all the silliness when guys are playing well. But when they're not, it all comes falling down. Yeah, I remember back after, you know, after week one when, like, all the former Seahawks just came out and just started, like, dunking all over him. It was like, I remember getting asked, like, maybe it was on the podcast with Sheal where it was like, are people in Denver? I am. I'm sorry. This is really cruel.

But it was like, are people concerned? It was like a mailman. It was like people in Denver concerned that so many of Russell Wilson's ex-teamates like that they don't like him. And it was like, I don't think, as long as Russell Wilson wins, I don't think people here care if he's corny or care about. any of this stuff. The problem here now is that they haven't been good. And so what they were promised hasn't lived up to the reality. And there don't seem to be, there's not an off ramp, right, to his contract. And there doesn't seem to be any sort of immediate answers from a coaching perspective of like signs that they're going to figure this out and get this right quickly.

And that's, that's the big problem. And that's made it really hard for Russell Wilson to kind of survive, survive the online. All this stuff. All of us making fun of him all the time. You think there's a chance, Hackett's one and done? I do think there is a chance if they don't get this together. And the biggest part of that is that it's new ownership. This ownership group did not hire Nathaniel Hackett. They signed Russell Wilson to the long contract.

It was the first big thing that the Walton Penner ownership group did when they, after they took over. It was in mid-August, and then by the beginning of September, Russell had a new contract. And they're sitting there in Milehai Stadium now and hearing their head coach and their quarterback get booed. They're hearing all of this stuff. Right. So that to me is the wild card here is the fact that there is new ownership and that is the one piece that could change. I think George Payton is very secure. There isn't really a chance that they change the quarterback.

So if things continue down this path the rest of the year, that's the one thing that could change. change and could change quickly. Just another tough break for the Walton's. You know, they've had such a hard time. Yeah. Really, it sucks to watch them struggle. All right. Preseason take you'd wish you'd believed in more that you'd said with more of your

chest back in August. I mean, I think, I think it was all kind of the like underlying concerns about the Rams. That's good one. And stuff with Matthew Stafford's elbow. I think I was giving too much credit to Sean McVeigh, will be able to fix this. Matthew Stafford's a tough guy, he'll be able to play through this. I think it was, I just gave a little bit too much credit to like their defending Super Bowl champions. They'll be okay and able to get through this stuff.

And when there were so many changes going on on the offensive line and injuries that were going on there, I just wish that I had been a little bit more, not necessarily given a critical look to it, but I just, I was, I think I was a little caught up still in like the Super Bowl Rams. and how aggressive they are and having so many answers for so long that they would just run out of answers as quickly as they did. Even if we take away what happened with Stafford and the heights that they reached during the Super Bowl year, this team has won in like 10 games a year with Sean McVeigh as its head coach. They sorted through a lot of scenarios, a lot of different problems. They were really good at solving whatever version of themselves emerged over the course of a season.

And they just haven't been able to do that this year. and it's been kind of strange to watch. Mine is sort of related. When I was looking at the landscape of the NFC before the season started, you look at the Bucks, the Packers, the Rams. I didn't love any of those teams. I thought that the Bucks, they brought everyone back, but their roster felt like a little bit stagnant,

and the Rams were significantly worse. The Packers were significantly worse without Devante Adams. And then I looked at the Eagles and I was like, I think that's the best team. Yeah. I think the Eagles have the best roster in the NFC. I felt about them similar to the way I felt about them before the 2017 season. And I was like, I just think they have the best team top to bottom.

And then I didn't pick the Eagles to win the NFC. And I'm still mad at myself about it. I picked them to win the NFC East. I picked them to make the playoffs. But when it came time to like, all right, who's your Super Bowl pick? I was just thinking about them playing a playoff game with that game against the Bucks. fresh in my mind and I just couldn't do it. And I regret that.

I wish I was like, you know what? They have the best team, even if I'm a little bit concerned about the ceiling that Jalen Hertz has, I'm willing to ride with this. And I wasn't. And I'm a coward. And I deserve everything that I get. The hardest part with the hindsight that we have now and making that pick there, right, is that all of those other teams, as many questions as the Rams, the bucks, the Packers,

all of those teams had elsewhere on their roster. the one thing that we all thought we could be sure about heading into the season was quarterback. And that was exact opposite with the Eagles, where you could – the only question that we had about the Eagles, right, is quarterback. And the last time they saw in play, as you said, against the bucks in the playoffs, that was a really bad game. Like a really, really bad game that, like, I'm sure they wanted to, like, men in black make everybody forget that had happened because it was just – if that stuck in your mind of, like, is this Jalen Hertz? Like, is this who this guy is going to be in these big moments? I don't think any of us would have even picked them to make the playoffs. But what we've seen over the first half of the season, and we'll probably talk about as we get into MVP discussion, is that Hertz has been really good in many more ways than any of us expected.

So I maybe give you a pass for getting that one wrong. Because we didn't get it wrong, right? I think you and I both said you picked. I picked them to win the East as well. But I just, I didn't expect Jalen Hertz to make this big of a job. week to week to week and to be this effective, not just as a runner, but as a passer. And we've seen them win games through using him as a passer. We have already seen that happen.

A bunch of different ways we've seen them win games. And that's what's been so impressive. And that's what's been really, really fun to watch. So I've got a few more. Okay. The Raiders as constructed didn't make sense. Should have known that at the time. I said that at the time.

Didn't stick to it. I should have picked them to be worse than they were. the idea that the Saints saw a completely different team in themselves than anyone else saw, and the decisions that they made did not align with a proper timeline. And they had Andy Dalton and James Winston a quarterback, and their defense was going to get worse. And all of these all-in pushes that they were making didn't align with who they actually were, which I think is fair to say now. And the Patriots hiring Matt Patricia and Joe Judd's being more of a disaster.

Because maybe a week into the air, I was like, I don't know. They're professionals. Maybe they'll figure it out. And then you hear Bill Belichick come out this week and be like, yeah, Shaq Leonard and C.J. Mosley knew the plays before they were happening. It's like, oh, man, they look terrible on offense. And probably shouldn't have thought more about this before the season started. I really leaned into that one. I was all in on the, this is a disaster. I can't believe this is happening. And this is something that we're going to roll with. This is just me as a person. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. I want to see the best in people and want to hope for the best with them. So those guys, it's like, oh, I don't know. maybe they'll be okay. Like, it's not a good plan, but maybe it'll be okay. It is not okay. It is not been okay.

I did not give them the benefit of the doubt there. And I will say, you know, with that, and now with like all the Jeff Saturday stuff that's coming up and we talk about like who gets opportunities and who doesn't, it always just felt it just felt wrong to me. Like when we're talking about like who gets opportunities to call plays and develop quarterbacks and design offenses that Matt Patricia and Joe Judge, but very much Matt Patricia were kind of just getting handed. this job without any sort of offensive background. So we leaned hard into that one and I stand by. I'm glad we went there. All right. Next one here. What is a preseason take that you want back? Like literally everything I said about the AFC West. Like every single thing. There are stories all over the athletic from last spring with my byline on it about the schedule release, about preseason predictions, all of this stuff. Just like delete it.

all from the internet. Like, can we go back into our athletic football show archives from the spring? Yeah, cut it all. I was wrong. It's been such a disappointment. And we talked about disappointments, but just that it was going to be the best division of football, that it was going to be the most competitive division in football, that three, maybe four teams could make the playoffs. It's the chiefs. The chiefs are really good. And everybody else is like pretty big disappointment. So that's it. I take it back. Not only is not the best division in the NFL. The AFC and NFC East are the most competitive divisions in the NFL, which we all would have predicted before the season. Which is wild.

Yeah, which is wild. All right. I have a couple. The Chargers being ready to be contenders. The Chargers being right there with the Bills and the Chiefs, I have regrets. I should have seen the Joe Lombardi writing on the wall more than I did. I expected their defense to take this huge jump with the influx of talent. That did not happen.

I know they've been a little bit banged up, but the Chargers definitely have not taken the step that I, I expected them to take, and I thought they would be really, really good this year. And even healthy, I don't think that this is a really, really good team. I think they're fine. But I expected them to be excellent and they haven't been. The Cowboys are going to fall off. It was definitely wrong about that. This is a defensive regression thing.

We'll talk about Dan Quinn here in a bit. But I just thought that all the turnovers they had last year, it's really difficult to sustain that sort of formula on defense and continue to be really good. But Trayvon Diggs has been better this year than he was last year, even without a mom. volatile. Yes, he's been a really good player. And they bring it back. I mean, Michael Parsons is obviously a game record, what DeMarcus Lawrence has been for them. You know, guys like Doran's Armstrong making an impact. Dante Fowler has flashed. So many guys in the defensive backfield, they're getting the most out of everybody on that side of the ball. And I think that's helped sustain this. And I really like what they're doing on offense. Like, I almost feel like they

stumbled into this really good plan because they had to play Cooper Rush for a little bit. And they're like, oh, this kind of works the way that we're doing this. And they're like, oh, this kind of works. The way that we're doing this. And then they're doing the same stuff with Dak right now. And it looks really good. So the Cowboys have just been better coached and just better put together than I expected them to be on both sides. I don't regret any of my preseason Cowboys takes.

I very much regret my post week one Cowboys takes. We're burning those. There's no interest in that. I was doing victory laps because one of my best bets was them to not make the playoffs before the season. So not feeling super great about that one. Last one. The Colts are the best team in a bad division.

and they're just going to win the AFC South by default. Oh, my. Not great. Not great. Not even close to correct. I mean, I'm pretty sure I picked them to win the division. Which, like, we all talked ourselves into and gave Mike Brable coach of the year last year. They were the favorites to win the division before the season started.

We all must remember this. It's not just hindsight from one or two people. The Colts were the favorites to win the AFC South. Now they might be the worst team in the league. I mean, the Titans were one of the teams that I think from like a roster perspective got worse. Yes. After last season. They traded away AJ Brown, who I'm going to talk about here in a little bit.

I think some question on the defense, they, you know, had some significant injuries before the season. It was just completely to me discounting just how good of a coach Mike Rable is. And just kind of, I think, remembering back to how poorly the Titans played. they were the number one seed and then they lost at home in the divisional round of the playoffs. And that part was stuck in my mind. And I don't think, and you know, we got kind of caught up in the Colts and the quarterback change again and some of the roster stuff and overlooking the very big holes that the Colts had elsewhere on their roster, offensive line, wide receiver, especially that they didn't have talent or depth at either of those positions. So yeah, I'm with you. We were wrong there.

I did not give enough credit to the two very big holes in the Colts offensive line. Their lack of a plan at left tackle and at right guard, they're still trying to figure it out. They still haven't figured it out. And we're eight games into the season. It is torpedoed them. They're the worst offense in the NFL in large part because of their inability to figure that out. And from some pretty forgettable play from the guys on their offensive line that are supposed to be pro bowl, all pro caliber players. So I think that everything about them has just been not the way that I expected to be coming into the season.

All right. Assistant Coach of the Year. one. This is, this was a Beller special that I'm glad that we're including. Okay, so I've got two guys. I've got Shane Waldron, offensive coordinator. That's a good one. In Seattle. Because he kind of like, he was very clear of like, this is what my offense is.

And this is how we're going to play. Pete Carroll hired him two years ago, right? It was before the 2021 season to kind of bring the Sean McVeigh offense to Seattle with the thought of this is going to help Russell Wilson. and Russell Wilson is going to like this offense. What we've seen happen is that has actually been the very perfect offense for Gino Smith. So, and Gino is very much like he's running the offense the way that Shane Raldron has designed it and called it. He runs it on script.

He does exactly what the play calls call for. He goes through his progressions. Like, he's not making big mistakes. So Shane Waldron, to me, he's one of my top assistants. And then the other one is Giro Evereaux, defensive coordinator. in Denver hired another former Rams assistant hired off of Sean McVeigh's staff after the Super Bowl last year. He's now the D.C. in Denver. And one of my big questions going to this year was how much of a defensive falloff with the Broncos' experience after firing Vic Fangio.

Vic Fangio was not a successful head coach in Denver for a lot of reasons, mostly which because the offense sucked year after year after year because there was no stability at quarterback. But his defenses were always very good. And I thought that they, they, might have a significant drop-off and a setback after kind of losing Vick's influence there and his design on that offense. Evereaux has been fantastic. The Broncos defense is one of the most. They're awesome to watch.

They're so fun. They're great to watch. They're really well-coached. We'll see what they look like now after taking Bradley Chubb out of that mix. We'll get to see them for the first time. What's the Gregory prognosis? Do you know what the timeline is on him? I haven't checked it this week, but I think they're getting close there.

So they think that they've got good depth. and some young players. I mean, like, Barron Browning has been fantastic. Them rolling out Gregory and Browning is fine. Like, they're still going to be pretty good. Yeah, I mean, they don't, you know, you're just now, you start tapping into that depth. And like Gregory coming back, he just has not shown that he can stay healthy for really long stretches.

So I've got some questions there, you know, and, and Chubb was so productive on just kind of a snap to snap basis and just so incredibly disruptive. So we'll see exactly what impact that has. But Evereaux's background is with defensive backs. And you can absolutely see that in the way that the Broncos secondary has been playing. So I think he's a guy who's going to get added to that short list of, you know, if teams want to look for defensive-minded head coaches, the Domingo Ryan's crew, I bet it's not too long before he's getting some significant head coaching looks into the future.

So those are my two guys. I want to hear yours now. Man, you, Adjero is like further down my list, but you've kind of swayed me a little bit. I'm second guessing my decision. Shane Waldron is a really good one because I do think that now we're getting to see what Shane Walton really is as an offensive coordinator. He's been unshackled from Russell Wilson, which is so weird to say. Because Russell loved him, though.

Like they had a really good relationship. Russ just would not do what he was, what they actually wanted him to do within that offense. My answer is Dan Quinn. And maybe this is just some residual feelings from last year because that, defense was just so much better than I expected it to be. But again, them being a top five defense, I'm staring at it right now, fourth in EPA per play on defense right now, Dallas is. Them being that top five defense without all the turnovers and them sustaining the success

that they had last year without the volatility that we talked about. It's really impressive to me. You know, you go get a guy like Dante Fowler and he's just playing so much better than he has been in previous stops. Every single guy along their defensive line is pretty. producing. Malik Hooker looks so much better than he had as in other places. They just get the most out of everybody. And for you to build that defensive ecosystem, and then for him to just be so much more creative and varied and open-minded than he was in years past, this might be a

multi-season award. I probably gave him some version of this award last year. But he's the one I'm giving it to for all of those reasons. Agiro is a great, great answer, though. Because to go from Vic Fangio to someone else and to get better on defense. And Justin Simmons was hurt for the first month of the season. Like, they've had guy, Randy Gregory's been hurt for a good chunk of the season. You guys that were supposed to be the centerpieces of this defense. And Alex Singleton's playing well. And there's so many guys, it's like, man, this guy's really flashing.

And that's what I like to see on the defensive side. Like, are you getting the most out of every single guy who walks through the door? And I think that Adjero has done that. And I think that Dan Quinn continues to do that. Yeah, I mean, you and I were very critical of the Dan Quinn hire when it first happened. It was uninspired to me. That's how I would describe it. But what has been, I think what I underestimated at the time and now we have seen

borne out over the course of a season and a half is just what a good people person he is and what a strong teacher he is. And I don't think Micah Parsons, so we're going to talk more about Michael Parsons in a bit, I don't think Micah Parsons is the player that he is, this standout potentially generational type of player without the coaching of Dan Quinn, without the relationship, the personal relationship and connection that the two of them have and the creativity from a football standpoint that Quinn has shown in figuring out ways to use him. Part of that was by design last year.

They were forced to do stuff with Michael Parsons last year that they weren't. Sometimes that's how innovation happens though, right? Yeah, exactly. And it's been really inspiring, I think, to see Dan Quinn. evolve as a coach where I know it was very disappointing for him the way that his tenure ended in Atlanta. And we've seen a lot of the guys that come from the Pete Carroll defensive coaching tree who kind of are like, this is the way that I coach and this is the scheme that I do.

And they've never really been able to stray too far from that box. We've seen Dan Quinn figure out ways to evolve, change his coaching style. But it always comes back to me with him that he's a really good team. and he has really, really good personal one-on-one connections with his players that enables him to get the most out of him. So I think that's also a really good pick. I'm going to be really interested to see if Quinn, he was a high head coaching candidate this year. And he pulled himself out of a lot of those jobs. And if he wants to get back in that mix and kind of what his head coaching future is like in the next cycle.

All the stunts they use, all the weird, funky coverage stuff they do. There are so many details of that defense I really love. If you guys I wanted to mention before we move on, Shane Steichen in Philly, I think has done a fantastic job as their play caller. I know that Nick Surianne is in the office of my head coach. Jonathan Gannon has done a wonderful job with the Eagles defense. They're incredibly fun to watch all the different stuff that they're doing.

Shane Bowen in Tennessee. They have a top 10 defense without Harold Landry with the rotating cast of guys at cornerback. It hasn't seemed to matter. He just fields a really good group of players. In the last couple of years, he's been really, really good. and then both of the coordinators in New York, Mike Kafka and Wink Martindale, both of them. I think I've done a really good job.

And even the other guys, Michael Fleur and I mean, Jeff Obrick and Robert Salon, parsing credit there is a little bit difficult, but I think a lot of really good coaching jobs this year. All right. Next one here. Comeback player of the year. This is always an interesting one. Yeah. I mean, I think there's kind of a small group that is separated themselves.

And I remember I was really uninspired going into the season looking at like the list of, you know, you look at the betting odds list of the people who could win this award. And it was Christian McCaffrey was kind of like the top guy in that list. And I was like, we're just betting on Christian McCaffrey to stay healthy. And right now he's going to be my pick. And I think Gino Smith is very much in that conversation. And I think he could win that award. And I wouldn't be surprised if we get to January and I'm voting for Gino Smith there.

But something about Christian McCaffrey kind of, one, being healthy, being really productive and now switching teams at midseason and becoming like better and potentially like the guy who flips the season for the nineers offense. It's an amazing situation. Like his life has had a comeback. Yeah. He no longer has to be in a long distance relationship with his like reality TV star girlfriend. It's fantastic.

I was even thinking about that. I think he doesn't have to play for Matt Ruhle anymore. Well, that too. That too. But yes. But yeah, I mean, it's like it's a perfect situation for him. I think to kind of revive his career and his season. And I didn't check the betting odds exactly where everybody is there.

But I think he was the preseason favorite, I believe, to win that award. And I just was like, I could not get into it. I just like could not buy. And the other guys on the list, it was like James Winston. And like it was not a very interesting list because there wasn't like a Dak Prescott or a, you know, Joe Burrow, somebody like a quarterback coming off of a major injury. So I had a really hard time getting excited about any of those guys. Yeah.

So it looks like Gino and Saquan Barkley are the favorites for that. Saquan is interesting and I think you might want to talk about him too. But Sequin is interesting because like he played, he was healthy last year. So he would be coming back from having played from Joe Judge. Like that's what he's coming back from. Not him personally sucking. It's a hell of a comeback.

I think a lot of giants could potentially win that award for that reason. Can we just give it to the whole organization? Gino is the favorite right now. He's minus 135. Gino is my pick. It has been eight years since Gino Smith was a full-time starter in the NFL. It's been eight years. Think about how many versions of the NFL have existed since the last time that Gino

Smith was a starter. Think about how many teams Gino Smith has played for. Gino Smith leads the NFL in completion percentage over expectation. He's playing at an insanely high level for someone who hadn't started a quarterback for the last eight years. Gino Smith is just walking into a season as a 32-year-old quarterback and playing at a top five to seven level. If the Seahawks decide at the end of the season that the best thing for their chances and their trajectory is a franchise is to give Gino Smith the franchise tech worth $30 million. I'll just nod.

Think about that. Think about how far from reality that would have seemed at the beginning of the season. But that's where we are. That's crazy. Like, Sequin Barclay being really good, we know Sequin Barclay is really talented. That's fine. Christian McAfrey being really good. We know Christian McCaffrey is really talented.

I know they were both hurt or ineffective, whatever, last season. Gino Smith came back from the wilderness to be this guy. That is a comeback to me. I think he absolutely deserves to win it. Yeah, no, I'm with you. It'll be fun to see how the rest of this year kind of plays out for both of them. Geno gets to play in Germany this week. So that'll be,

I think that's going to be kind of a fun taking on the Bucks and that Bucks defense. So yeah, I'm excited. It's been fun. It's wild just because nobody thought that we'd be having this conversation about like Gino Smith signing a long-term extension. He signed all of these one-year deals. We thought that the Seahawks who have two first-round picks. And they're going to have the Broncos first-round pick, which is going to be a very nice,

like high first round traffic, that they would kind of be in that mix for the top quarterbacks next year. And now I don't think that's going to happen, which is really wild and really fun. It's crazy. I did not expect to be here. All right, next one here. Offensive rookie of the year. All right. So I was kind of down to three guys for this one. Chris Olavé, who I think was maybe the preseason, preseason favorite there. I don't know. Him and Kenya. Drake London, I think, was the preseason favorite. Okay, Draclin.

But so right now I think it's probably between Kenneth Walker the third and Damien Pierce, the two kind of standout rookie running backs. And I think this is very much going to be a second half of the season award because Kenneth Walker didn't get a ton of looks early in the season. He wasn't their starter, you know, at the beginning of the year, but he's really come on over the last month of the season because of injuries that have happened elsewhere, you know, to that running back room in Seattle. you know, Damien Pierce is like the only good player right now for the Houston offense. He's carrying them. He's going to have a really good argument, I think, from a statistical point of view. But if we're voting on anything that's more than just exact, you know, stats wise, I think it'll be a hard case for Pierce. But I think Kenny Walker because he's like explosive and he's fast and he's like making highlight play.

And you're catching that narrative wave for the Seahawks, man. I think that's definitely part of it too. Kenneth Walker is a good one. Damian Pierce is a good one. George Pickens. George Pickens was like the hot preseason pick because he was so good in the preseason and in training camp. And everybody was going through La Trobe.

So yeah, there was a lot of George Pickens type. I'm picking Olave just because I think that Olavet is already one of the better receivers in the league like play in and play out. He's eighth in yards per route run this year. He has like 650 receiving yards. He missed a game. And we're halfway through.

the season. He's on pace for 1,300 yards, and he missed the game. You watch him play. I mean, he had some moments last night against the Ravens where just the way he sets up routes and some of the things he does tempo-wise as a route runner, getting

in the blind spot of certain defenders. I mean, that guy is, he's so, so good and so polished already. And I know that Walker and Pierce are going to get the opportunities, but I just think that Chris Oliva, to me, has been the most impressive offensive rookie and the production has been there. I mean, you look at it yards per game,

what he's done every time he's been on the field. He's my winner. Yeah, I think he might end up getting maybe like demerits or whatever because the Saints overall are just kind of bordering on irrelevancy, especially, you know, after Monday night football. It's harder to see. They might have a couple more of those games like they played against the Raiders a couple weeks ago. I don't know if they're going to shut out too many other teams. But, you know, a lot of times. You know, a lot of times it's the guys who for these awards and who plays the best and is the most relevant in the second half of the season. But it has been fun to see Olavé because I still don't think the saint should have traded a first round pick to move up. No. That we can remove ourselves from

that. The process was not great, but the player is excellent. We don't give them a process banner. To be clear, these are guys who I think should win the awards. Not the guys who I think are going to win the awards. These are the guys that I think are the most deserving. So I just want to make that clear before we keep going here. All right, this one, the answer is the same. Defensive Rookie of the Year, who you got? I mean, it's Soss Gardner. It's definitely Soss Gardner. There's literally no, like, I don't even know who else is in the conversation. I think that Tariq Wollan has been excellent. I think that Jack Jones from the Patriots has been really, really good this year. I think that Devin Lloyd from the Jags has had some nice

moments. Kirby Joseph has really come on, the safety for the Lions in the last couple games. Sauce Gardner is the defensive rookie of the year. Yeah, I mean, he's already, we're trying hard Defensive players in the league. Yeah, sauce Gardner is that. I don't think we have to say much more about that. This one, there's a lot to dig into. Coach of the year, you could name six guys and make an argument for them, and I would totally understand it. I'm going to continue the Seahawks love here on this podcast, and my pick is Pete Carroll. And I think you can make a really strong argument for Nick Seriani, Robert Sal, Brian Dable, Kevin O'Connell. And I hope. hope that you are going to make a strong argument for some of those other guys. One of the things that has – and look, I vote for these awards. I've on and off have voted for these awards for about 10 years or so. And so I very much will include myself in the problem here. We tend to get caught up in, like, who is the hot new thing?

And the guy who – you know, a first-year head coach who turns a team around really quickly. It's like the Matt Nagy when he won it a couple years ago. And the guys who have been here doing it – year after year after year, we tend not to consider those guys. Mike Tomlin has never won this award. There's a million times that Bill Belichick probably should have won this award and he didn't because we get caught up in Matt Nagy or whoever it might be. Pete Carroll, the coaching job that Pete Carroll has done, and I'm going to go back to March

and include this in there when he went ahead and okayed this trade to trade Russell Wilson, re-signed Gino Smith, believed that Gino Smith was going to be his guy, even though they baked all this stuff about how much they liked Drew Locke. It was always Geno Smith's job when we actually went back and watched what was happening there in the preseason. What he's done with

retooling his staff, changing out his defensive staff, getting the most out of this rookie class that he has, all these rookie defensive backs especially. And then just getting this out of Gino Smith. He looks like he's having so much fun. He's totally re-energized.

he is loving everybody dunking on Russell Wilson all this year. Although I will say he's somehow gotten a pass for all of the drama that he kind of helped create the environment that he fostered there of the competition and wanting to give credit and giving probably like some double standards for Russell Wilson that he didn't give to other players and those sorts of things.

But just the coaching job that he has done from a roster management standpoint to developing his rookies to everything that he's done with his offense and his quarterbacks. Like, I love all of this for Pete Carroll. So he's my, he's my, he's my pick at midseason. I don't know if ultimately he'll be the pick at the end of the year, but I'm riding with Pete. It's a really good answer. It's a really good answer.

And he deserves it as much as anybody. He's not my pick. Let's go through all these. The guys I did not pick. I did not pick Nick Siriani because I think that Nick Siriani is coaching the best roster in the NFL. What Nick Siriani has done over the last two seasons is incredible. Like the flexibility that they've shown on offense, picking Jonathan Gannon to be his defensive coordinator and just kind of letting Gannon loose on what that defense would look like and just

them folding in new ideas based on who their players were and playing to their strengths. He's done an excellent job. But I just think this specific season he has a ton to work with. And I'm dinging him a little bit for that, even if that's something unfair. Pete Carroll absolutely could win it. What Pete Carroll was doing with this team when some people, again, people expect to them to maybe be the worst team in the NFL or one of the worst teams in the NFL is incredible. Mike Frabble, again, is dealing with a team that should not be this good and is going to

win the AFC South. What Mike Frabble continues to do every year is unbelievably impressive and he deserves more credit. Kevin O'Connell, I understand that the Vikings record may be a little bit smoke and mirrors. They've gotten lucky in some of these games. They're not overly impressive. I do think that culture change and that shit is real. And when you talk to people there coming into this season, when you see some of the stuff coming out of there, how different it feels compared to how it felt under Mike Zimmer, that's real.

And Kevin O'Connell deserves a ton of credit for that. And I think he's done a very good job so far. But again, I don't think he's the winner. Robert Sala has done a very good job. I think that he deserves credit for what he's done with the Jets. but again, the Jets spent a lot of resources to upgrade that roster this year. And I think that, to me, that dinks him a tiny bit, even if that's somewhat unfair. It comes down to me to two guys.

The second, the guy that's my runner-up is Mike McDaniel. And that might just be because I've watched a lot of the Dolphins offense recently. We talked about two on the show last week. I just watched them play the Bears. How that thing is built and how fun it is to watch and how effective they've been. For them to be the most efficient passing offense in the NFL with a guy that a lot of people were questioning whether he was going to be their long-term starting quarterback, how perfectly it's constructed around the skill sets of their players and their quarterback and just all the little tweaks that they have on it. It's like, all right, here's the exact same play with a slightly different formation with slightly different personnel. All of the levers that he's pulling as the main offensive designer and kind of figurehead on that team has been so incredibly enjoyable to watch.

and so he's up there for me. But my answer is Brian Dable. Like, if this is a coaching award, the Giants were supposed to be one of the two worst teams in the league. The Giants spent no money on their roster. The Giants didn't try to make any upgrades. The Giants didn't have anybody that was coming in as reinforcements this offseason. The Giants have one of the worst two or three rosters personnel-wise in the league.

They have very, very little talent. somewhat on purpose. Some of it's a little misleading. They're probably not a six and two team, but they are light years better on both sides of the ball than they have any right to be. And I just think that's coaching. And Brian Dable assembling the staff,

the situational decisions that he's made, and how often he's put them in advantageous spots making those decisions, he is the answer to me. I just think that Brian Dable and the Giants have done the best coaching job purely this season in the end of. I just, it's like cool that there's so many like deserving candidates for this award. And it's going to be really interesting to see how it plays out over the second half of the season of who ultimately wins this,

that win this award. Because a lot of times it's like what happens over the final month of the season and who gets themselves into position to get the number one seed and all of those sorts of things. You know, we're not talking about Andy Reid. We're not talking about Sean McDermott. You know, those, some of those guys, which Andy Reid will be interesting by the end of the season because of reconstructing his offense and offensive philosophy and how he use all of those different pieces. I will talk about, I do want to say a couple things about the guys that you picked, though. Because when we talk about like culture change, it's really, it's an indictment on some of these other like culture coaches, right? But they're still like losing a lot

of games. You know, Nathaniel Hackett in Denver, a team that has a better, should have better talent, right? A talent up and down there should have had it, a quarterback. back, right? And not winning a lot of games. You know, Brandon Staley, who we thought last year maybe was like kind of changing some cultural stuff and everybody was really excited, not living up to expectations, not winning a lot of games. Josh McDaniels comes in and probably had a lot of hype. I will say I was on my, I stand by my preseason takes about what the Josh McDaniels's experience was going to be like in Vegas, or at least my concerns about what it was going to be like. So then when you see guys who come in and are able to have that much of an immediate impact,

especially when you don't have a ton of roster talent. It's really, really impressive. The thing that I love about Mike McDaniel is that, like, he's just so different, like, personality-wise than most other, like, football guys and head coaches. And he had never been a play caller before. So that's wild to me. That, like, I think we always knew that he had that, like, brilliant offensive mind to him, right? That was what everybody who ever played for him said. But we just didn't know who he was going to actually be when he was the one in the headset calling the place.

So that part has been really fun. And then the other thing that I really like about Brian Daibble is he was the play caller in Buffalo. It was him and Josh Allen. And he was the guy in Josh's ear. And yes, they did a lot of building that roster. But like that was his offense. Right. And he worked for a defensive-minded head coach.

What were the first thing that he did when he came to Buffalo or when he came to the Giants? He gave up play calling. He hired Mike Kafka and said, Mike, you are going to call the plays. I'm going to do this other stuff. And then he also hired a really veteran, well-respected defensive coordinator in Winkmartindale. And it showed to me that that's just a lot of, like he didn't have a lot of ego involved there, that he was willing to give those things up. It is amazing. And I think that he wanted to be more present in the building.

He wanted to make sure that he was getting his hands and everything. He wanted to be the head coach of the team because I asked him about it. So why would you do this? And the awareness of what it would allow him to do elsewhere, I think, is one of the reasons they've had this sort of success. All right, we got a few more of these. We've got to get through pretty quickly here. Executive of the year, who you got? Howie Roseman. It's two horse race to me. I think it's Howie Roseman. He's my winner. I think he should be the winner. I think what John Schneider did to get all of those picks of Russell Wilson hit on this draft class and have a top 10 pick next year that wasn't originally yours potentially. And the trajectory that the Seahawks are on, he's the other guy worth mentioning. It's Howie Roseman. Yeah, it's Howie. Look at that team from top to bottom. And the guys they had it this year, James Bradbury, C.J. Gardner Johnson, A.J. Brown, Hassan Reddick, Jordan Davis.

And they have a top 10 pick next year. They could win the Super Bowl and pick in the top 10 based on what he's done and how he has set this up. So I think Holly Roseman has built the best roster in the NFL. Yeah, I agree. And look, I'm giving the Seahawks a ton of credit on this podcast. But, yeah, I mean, if the Eagles ultimately make the Super Bowl here, and I think a lot of us are not going to be picking them to be the team that comes out of the NFC. It's going to be because of coaching.

It's going to be because of Jalen Hertz's development. But it's mostly going to be because of how Howie has rebuilt this roster in the span of two years and has pushed all the right buttons to fix the secondary. You know, I mean, just it's all of these. They were a nightmare, Lindsay. Yeah. They were awful in 2020. Like, they were such a terrible football team to watch. And now they're the best team in the league top to bottom.

That's amazing. And he deserves a ton of credit for that. That guy is looking for every single rock he could turn over all the time to make his team better, all the time. And you see that. Like, I just think he's a really, really good general manager in the process they go through. He's getting that reputation now of like if Howie calls to make a trade, like, hang it up. Because he's going to fleece you. Like, that was like Belichick for a long time, you know, because like Belichick always knew like

when to get rid of players or whatever. But like, yeah, I mean, howie just with Chauncy Garner Johnson or. or, you know, A.J. Brown trade or whatever it was. He just has a really good pulse on exactly how to fix the team. And then also just like the way that they, I think, organizationally have empowered Jalen Hertz, too. A lot of other places would have messed that up really, really, really badly. And they've kind of threaded that needle really well this season.

So people don't yell at us. I think Joe Douglas has done a very good job. But with a, he had a ton of picks. I think that they're a much better team than they were. ending of last season, but I still think that Howie Roseman has done a better job. Are you saying Jets fans might get mad in the comments? Joe Douglas has done a very good job as the Jets general manager.

Quote it. Tweet it. Chris Greer going out and getting Tyreekill and the moves that they made to improve this team, I think, are, you know, he deserved credit. And I just, the Raiders, or the Ravens, the Ravens like building that deep group of guys up front on offense and the way they've retooled their offensive line. So I just wanted to mention Eric Acosta before we got out of there. All right.

Offensive player of the year. This is an easy one for me. Tyree Kell. It's Tyree Kel. Yeah. Production. I mean, he's on pace to break the receiving yards record and beyond that, just the influence. When you watch what he is to that offense and what it allows them to do and how structurally everything changes because Tyree Kill is on the field.

He is the most influential receiver in the NFL. He's the most influential non-quarterback on offense in the NFL. And he's been the most productive receiver in the NFL. So I don't, I'm on arguments as to why he shouldn't win it. we're in agreement. AJ Brown has been very, very good. Justin Jefferson's been very, very good. Andrew Thomas deserves mention from me.

Andrew Thomas is awesome. Like, he's one of the best left tackles. He might be the best left tackle in the league right now. There was, like, a most improved award or something. So that's over two years, though. He was good last year. That's over two years to me. I think that I had somebody that we did a most improved.

Caleb McGarry and the way he is playing for the Falcons this year. year, especially in the run game. He has been really, really good and so much better. All right. Defense player of the year. Michael Parsons. I also have Michael Parsons. He's my midseason winner, and I think he ultimately will end up being the end of the season winner, too.

I mean, my preseason pick was Nick Bosa. I thought that he was, and we'll see. You know, he's still extremely disruptive, and I think that the Niners defense is going to, I think I picked the Niners to make the NFC championship game in my midseason picks that we're going to be publishing later this week. And if that happens, Nick Bosa is going to have a huge, huge say in that.

But I just think Michael Parsons is, he was revelatory as a rookie, and he's now even more just kind of productive on a snap to snap basis as we're seeing all the different ways that Dan Quinn can use him. So I think Mike and Parsons, he's just one of one. Yeah. That's right.

The ways that he can wreak havoc on an opposing offense, that's why he's my pick. I just everywhere they can line him off, all the damage that he can do. The other two guys that I had were Miles Garrett and Nick Bosa. Like, Miles Garrett is as good as he's ever been right now. He's been the most productive pass rusher in the league on a person at basis. And Nick Bosa, whatever he's on the field, is absolutely dominant.

So you could pick any one of those three guys, and I would totally understand it. But I just think that it's Michael Parsons this year. All right, last one. I'm sure this won't ruffle any feathers at all. MVP. Okay. So I've already been on the record for a mid-season pick here. And it's Josh Allen.

then all the elbow stuff this week and all the uncertainty there is making this really I don't feel good about it because if he really is dealing with issues now with like the ligaments in his elbow and by the time this podcast comes out, but Wednesday morning we might have more info coming out of Buffalo about his elbow. If he misses any time, it's going to be over for him. I think there's too many other good players, namely Patrick Mahomes and Jalen Hertz, but especially Patrick Mahomes that if Patrick, if Josh Allen is not on the field for a couple weeks, an extended period of time, anything like that, I think it's done. But he was my preseason pick. He was my midseason pick for the way that he played over the

first half of the season. And if he is healthy, I still think that he will win this award. But I'm way more nervous about it right now saying that than I was a couple days ago. After the last, if you had asked me two weeks ago, I probably would have said Josh Allen, after the last two weeks, both the way the bills have played and the way this other team has played, I'm going with Mahomes. Like, to trade away Tyreek Hill

and to still be the best passing offense in the NFL so far this year. And the way that teams have played against them and the amount of man coverage the teams have played and essentially been like, all right, we dare you to beat us. Like, you have to make the throws. We dare you to beat us.

and he continues to just destroy people. That transition and the fact that he's still probably the best quarterback in the league in this version of who they are, it's amazing. Like that guy is just, he's just something else. And to continue this sort of greatness without any sort of dip, without any sort of barrier, it's remarkable. So he's the answer to me. I think Tua has been so good in what they've asked him to do.

I think J-1 Hertz has been so good and what they've asked him to do. but if we remove, if we put Patrick Mahomes into either one of those situations, if this is the most valuable player to their team, to their offense based on everything else around them, to me the answer is Patrick Mahomes.

Like, those two guys are in such incredible situations. Like, if you drop Patrick Mahomes onto the dolphins, like, what would they look like? If you dropped Patrick Mahomes onto the Eagles with that supporting cast, what would they look like?

And if you dropped either of those two guys onto the Chiefs, it just wouldn't even be a conversation, even if I do think both of them have played very well this season. So I just think it's moms. I think that his greatness is unwavering. Well, and I think we've talked about this before, too, is like he was statistically so incredible when he won his first MVP award. The bar for him became so high for what it would take for him to match the production that he had in his first MVP season, just the way that he kind of just took over the NFL, the yards, the touchdowns, the extreme performance numbers that they got out of out of that offense. What's cool now is that now he's going to get the narrative

bump too, that like he might not have to throw for 5,300 yards and 50 touchdowns, and he's going to be able to win this award. But he's on pace to throw for 5,200 yards. Maybe not 50 touchdowns, right? But he also gets an extra game than he did when his first time. But this, he's, he's going to get that narrative now where he's had to evolve as a quarterback. He's had to change the way that he plays. He's had to evolve to new teammates

pulling Tyree Kill. It would be really cool if Tyree Kill wins offensive player of the year and Patrick Mahomes wins MVP. Because it almost never happens that there's a win-win that teams can one of the only other... But that's the bet that chiefs made and the bets were the chiefs were correct

in making that bet. This was a bet on Patrick Mahomes. The chief's decision to trade tire tire kill was like, you know what? We got the guy. He'll be fine. And guess what? They were right. They were absolutely right. I just hope for Josh Allen's sake that his elbow is okay and that we get to see these two guys like they're not going to get to play each other again before MVP voting comes down to it. But like I just hope that we're going to get another like both of these guys at the full extent of their powers later this season. And I think the MVP race is far from over and it's going to be really, really fun to watch over the last month of the season. All right. That's all we got.

Lindsay Jones, thank you very much for doing this. It was so glad to have you back on the show. I missed it. It was lovely to be back and say hi to everybody for me. I absolutely well. All right, guys, that's all we got for today. We will be back on Thursday. We're doing our weekly preview show with Ali Connolly this week because Nate is having a baby. So he is not available to do that with us this week. So Ollie's going to come on. Really excited to do that. 3.30 p.m. Eastern, if you guys want to check it out on YouTube. In the meantime, if you want to subscribe to the podcast, if you want to leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcast, we'd really appreciate it. Subscribe to Theathletic, theathletic.com slash football show. For now,

that's all we got. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you later. This was the Athletic Football Show.