The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - More Urban Meyer reactions: Effect on Trevor Lawrence, coaching candidates & what's next for the Jaguars with Sheil Kapadia

Episode Date: December 16, 2021

Robert Mays and Sheil Kapadia bring some more context to the Urban Meyer situation with some bonus podcast coverage covering the coach's affect on Trevor Lawrence's development, what direction the Jaguars should go in for their next head coach, & whether or not the Jags as they are today can even be trusted to get things right. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Football Show Welcome to a bonus episode of the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. Joining me this morning. It's my good friend Shooka Pottis. How you doing, buddy? I love the feeling of waking up and there's something big that happened when you were sleeping. I hate it because I'm sad that I woke, that I fell asleep.

I wish we could have done this last night. I would have loved to have had like a late in the night, just by candlelight breakdown of their mirefiring. but I was on my ass after that booster shot. I was very much asleep by the time Kent texted me about doing this. So I do enjoy it, though. I do like when some of the NFL world burns down overnight and that's what you wake up to. Yes, there are multiple, you know, there are different senses of excitement.

One is the late night, you're right, you check your phone one last time before sleeping and something big happened. But then the other one is you wake up in the morning and first thing you do is look at your phone and something big happened overnight. that's what we have here with the Urban Meyer situation. All right. So we're going to break down all things, Urban Meyer, and the Jaguar's decision to move on from him late last night. Reading Shot Khan's statement that he put out yesterday said after deliberation over many weeks and a thorough analysis of the entirety of Urban's tenure with our team,

I am bitterly disappointed to arrive at the conclusion that an immediate change is imperative for everyone. I informed Urban of this change this evening. As I stated in October, regaining our trust and respect was essential. regrettably, it did not happen. Oh boy, I would say that regaining their trust and respect absolutely didn't happen. If anything, the trust and respect has roared it even further with how all of this unfolded here over the last few months with the Jags. I mean, what a run, really, from start to finish, to pack all of this into 11 months to hire Chris Doyle, a disgraced, you know,

strength and conditioning coach and then get him let go. The Tim Tebow, charade, the off-season fines for violating practice rules, skipping the team flight home, the players doing one, two, three, grind to break down a Wednesday practice. That was one of my personal highlights there. The video at the bar allegedly calling his coaching staff a bunch of losers, reportedly literally kicking the kicker, Josh Lambo. I mean, these are things, you know, I hate, I usually hate when people say you can't make this stuff up, but it definitely applies.

You can't make this stuff up. You can't. I mean, it's, you know, I thought it was going to be a pretty spectacular disaster when they hired Urban Meyer. This even exceeded my very lofty. This was 11 months, 11 months on the job. And I didn't even mention all the crappy stuff they did on Sundays, which we can get into. I mean, going to an 11 is like an afterthought here with all the other stuff. So, yeah, what a run for Urban Meyer. Fantastic job.

You forgot that he said they wanted Cadarius Tony in the draft. but way before they draft the Travis E. T.N., which was a good one. You forgot that he split the first team reps in training camp with the guy they drafted first overall in Gardner Minshew. I went there. It was in early August. It was, I want to say it was August 2nd or 3rd. It was during my Florida trip during training camp.

And their practice fields are right outside. I think it's TIA Bank Field or whatever it is in Jacksonville. I can never keep it all straight. It was unlike any other NFL training camp practice I've ever seen. They, before the practice started, an assistant coach gave like an extended speech. Like, I don't, I can't, it was five, six minutes long and they would transition each day. A different person would give it. And it was just a very strange kind of thing.

There was a PA system that was announcing kind of the movement between different sections of practice, which my understanding was as a college thing. but just the amount of a yelling that took place during individual drills and what it felt like, I was like, this, I don't know about this. I'm not sure that this is going to last very long. Having conversations with some of the NFL coaches that I've talked to over the years that are successful and the ones that build successful programs and the demeanor that it takes to do that, even if you have guys who have energy, like a Sean McVeigh, for example, guys that have that sort of endless fire to them, there is a modicum of respect that hangs over the

entire thing. Like, if you heard, I remember talking like Andrew Whitworth in 2017, 2018, when the McVeigh era started. And you hear the way they talk about the collaborative process between players and coaches and the open dialogue between players and coaches and what it feels like. Even if you have a raw, rock coach, there needs to be an underlying understanding between everyone in the building that this is a partnership. we are on very equal levels here, and that's how we're going to define our organization,

define how we communicate with one another. It seemed like that never happened in Jacksonville, along with everything else that was a problem there. I mean, I cannot remember a more embarrassing NFL coaching tenure than this, even if there have been ones that have been as poorly run and as unsuccessful. Yeah, you said it well. I mean, it's about treating players like grown-ups with respect. It doesn't mean, you know, we're not saying everybody, everything has to be soft. We've been around NFL practices where coaches are getting on players.

But a lot of times there has been an understanding. There has been a respect. There has been sort of the groundwork has been laid that I'm going to do this. But hey, later, you know, I'm going to hug you up and we're going to, you know, I'm trying to get the most out of you. The player understands that. We know the dynamics of the player coach relationship. But when you begin with what I, you know, the list I just reeled off before you even held an NFL practice,

you've already, you know, made misstep after misstep, and then they just continue and continue and players don't, you know, players want to get better. If like, they will take different types of coaching, most of them. I mean, every, every player is different, but they'll take different types of coaching if they feel like the coach is getting them better and they're improving. I mean, I have found that to be true most often throughout my course of, you know, covering the league. And so with that team, no one was getting better. I mean, there was no improvement. And so now you're, doing all this stuff. You don't respect the coach. The coach is acting like a jerk. The coach is not fully invested in the team. And all of a sudden, you're looking up and it's week 15 and you're saying,

what are we doing here? So, I mean, he failed so spectacularly on so many different levels that, you know, I want to say it's hard to even fathom, but, you know, there was a bit of a predictability to this even when they hired him. When you look at coaches who have run hard practices, who can be hard on guys, Andy Reid, Bill Belichick, Andy Reid's training camps are notorious. You earn that. You earn the right to do that. You earn the right to have that sort of environment within your organization over time. When you stack up wins, when you show players, I can take you where you want to go.

You want to be successful. You want to win games. You want to make money. I can help you do that. But that's earned. You don't get to start with that. It doesn't matter how many games you want in college. It doesn't matter how many TV shows you were the co-host on in the morning with Reggie

Bush and Matt Weiner. That shit doesn't matter here. It matters how many games you've won and how many skins you have on the wall in the NFL, and he had none. And to do that and to show that not only have I not proven myself in this world, but I should just demonstrated a lack of engagement from the start of this thing. For them, it's a small thing. I know it was a joke on the internet.

But for a reporter to ask about Andre Sisko's snaps last week and for him to say, oh yeah, I think he's playing more. and for him to play zero snaps in that game, when you are not the offensive play caller, it's not like you've contracted out a side of the ball and like, oh, yeah, that's what I do. Like, I have a Vance Joseph or a Wade Phillips in year one, and that's what they do. There's no excuse. There is zero excuse to not have every detail down to a T if that's the type of coach that you're supposed to be.

If you can't do that, then what are you doing here? That was shocking. You're right. You know, so many of these little things went under the radar, you know, stuff like that. Like, think about when you listen to NFL head coaches, the amount of detail that they have about what it's not. I have the time of thinking, how does this guy remember what happened, you know, during the course of the game or three weeks ago? Or, man, he remembers this back-to-back play call he had at the end of the first half in week eight. And I'm asking him about it now.

And he remembers exactly what happened there. It's incredible what they do. And that stuff was just week after week after week. I mean, that was with players. I remember there was a back-to-back thing. I think we talked about it on the athletic football show. I brought it up during the pick segment. There was a time in Seattle.

They had 12 men on the field on defense. They get flagged. They go back out there. They had to call time out. You know why? Because they had 12 men on the field again. I mean, that type of thing was happening over and over again with this team. I remember they were down by 24 points in the fourth quarter.

They score a touchdown. They don't go for two. And then they kick the onside kick. Are you trying to win the game? these are like the baseline things you have to have in check. And then it's just the relationships. Like berating your coaching staff, I mean, that stuff rubs me the wrong way. You know, everything he did, like a lot of being an NFL head coach, we're always looking

for who's the next great schemer in the X's and O's. You know what? A lot of it is just like you have a lot to deal with. You have media. You have a coaching staff. You have the front office. You have ownership. Like, you've got to be somebody who can get everyone pulling in the same direction,

somebody who people want to be around. A sense of leadership is really all important. And like he failed on every single level in that respect also. We did a show this spring about the coaches we would want and what qualities you'd be looking for in a head coach. And I had a head coach reach out to me after we did it. And we were talking about just the different things that you need to be successful. And this is a coach that's been to the playoffs. And he said two things.

He said, you need to be a great communicator and need to have command. Those are the most important things. You don't need to be a rah, raw guy, but you need to command the room. Just think about Urban Myers body language in so many of these moments. I know the Mike Vrable Handshake is a viral moment on the internet, but just think about if you played on that team and you see him walking off the field like that. And just so many of his kind of sunken shoulders, oh, I don't know answers at press conferences, that stuff matters.

Like, that command that you have to have in every single one of these moments when you're the face of an NFL franchise, that stuff matters. And the fact that this is all he was supposed to be. The only thing he was supposed to be was this culture setter, changer of things where I was going to get things moving in the right direction and I was going to give us instant credibility. That's the only thing he was supposed to be able to do well from the start. and it is the thing he got the most wrong. Every week. Yeah, it was every week. I mean, I don't remember seeing a coach look that miserable on the sidelines. I mean, you know, you have moments, you have tough losses where that happens,

and it's a last second thing, and you put your head down. Like, I'm always shocked, actually, at the way coaches between that, you know, the time the clock hit zero to the 10 minutes later when they're talking to the media. Like Pete Carroll was the master of this. Like, you would watch him and the game just ended and you're like, oh, my, he is not in a good place. 10 minutes later he's going out, you know, he's in front of the media. I'm not, I'm not giving up.

We're going to get this right. I believe in the guys in those locker room. That is a skill that you have to have because, you know, the players might. Yeah. I mean, the players may not be watching every minute of the press conference, but when a clip goes viral, there are many waits for them to see it. They're noticing it. And it's not just that, you know, you're not just catching a 10 second glimpse with

Urban Meyer. I mean, that I imagine was what he was like a lot there when you just hear these stories keep coming out and coming out. and I'm sure there will be even more. And it was just like, what was he even doing? What did he expect this experience was going to be like for him? Did he think he was going to come in and go 12 and 4 in his first year and take the league by storm? I mean, it's possible that he was arrogant enough to think that that's what was going to happen.

But clearly he couldn't handle the way it eventually turned out. And obviously a huge portion of that hope and optimism was rooted in Trevor Lawrence. And that to me is one of the sadder parts of this entire thing. is that you have a guy who was billed as the next great quarterback prospect. And in so many ways, I don't think we should be off of that, right? Like, he's had flashes. I think the way he's handled this is actually really impressive. I mean, that's a small thing.

But again, I do think that that's something worth paying attention to. And you look at the circumstances he's dropped into. And it's such a reminder that what surrounds these guys influences the way that their career goes. And it could not have gone. worse. It could not have been worse for him in year one. I think the only thing that could have made this a worse season and a worse start to his career for Trevor Lawrence is if the Jags offensive line was just a disaster and he was getting killed every single week. That hasn't happened. They are a functional offensive line. Every other part of this has gone as bad as it can go.

And that's the issue with these guys is when how far down the road do you get with this awful development? And that's my concern here. Is it like, is this been such so bad of a year? that Trevor Lawrence is worse off now than he was when he stepped onto the Jaguars on May 1st or whatever it was of this year as the number one pick. Like, is he regressed? Are his chances for success less now than they would have been a year ago as they start to retool this whole thing? Yeah, it's a good question. I'm with you. I feel like you don't see, you don't watch him and say he's developed those terrible habits that you're always worried about with a rookie quarterback who's under a lot of pressure.

and you feel like that can affect him long term. I mean, maybe, you know, 10 years from now, he's given a press conference at the Super Bowl going, man, that first year I learned like the worst of the worst in the NFL can look like, and thankfully it went up from there. I mean, let's hope there's that type of trajectory. But I have to say, I mean, the Jaguar should not be given any type of benefit of the doubt that they're going to get this right now.

You know, we talk about the dumpster fire organizations in the NFL in Washington, deservedly so, and the Texans have gotten in there. This Jaguars team has been a complete mess. I mean, last offseason was the ultimate, don't freaking screw this up scenario with your head coaching hire. You know you're getting Trevor Lawrence. You have other draft capital. You have money to spend in free agency. Get some competency.

Get some stability. What did they do? They hired Urban Meyer with a laughing stock for his 11 months, who is now out of there. I mean, look at what they've done in the 10 years under, you know, Shotkins ownership. they've won more than six games once in 10 years. I mean, in this era of the NFL with parity and you're getting high draft picks year after year, like that is really, really hard to do. And these haven't just been like little misses here and there.

Like the Gus Bradley era, that was kind of a typical, all right, it didn't work out. Things didn't go great. But look at the other ones. I mean, the Doug Marone Tom Coughlin era, the not being able to hold on to the best players you've drafted, the Urban Meyer stuff. I mean, this has been miss after miss. after miss as one of the worst franchises in the entire NFL. So yeah, I am nervous about what it's going to mean for Trevor Lawrence here going forward. Like they need stability, they need competency,

they need leadership. They don't need to hit a home run. They need to, you know, hit a double, I guess you could say, and just get, you know, become an NFL franchise with a little bit of respectability, surround Trevor Lawrence with pieces, whether it's personnel or coaches, where he can at least have a chance at fulfilling his potential. And we'll see what they do now. I mean, maybe they'll go in that direction and they'll kind of luck into it because we know that happens sometimes. And we always see with owners, it feels like once you hire one type of coach and it fails, you go all the way in the other direction. So I would expect them to hire like somebody who everybody loves.

And at the very least is a very nice person and who people want to be around. But I mean, let's see. I'm not convinced that it's going to happen until they have some sort of success. They've had no sustained success during the 10-year run. I feel like the Urban Meyer solution or the Urban Meyer move is not that far removed in its thinking from the Tom Coughlin move, right? You have this establishment coach, even if Irbyer coached in college, it's a big name. It's someone who's had success, but is like a football guy, right? Tom Coughlin comes in.

He's this notorious hard ass. And that was the overarching feel of the organization that players hated. It was a miserable situation for those guys there, and that's why they consistently lost players. That's why that there were so many complaints to the NFLPA. It was not a harmonious situation with Tom Coughlin in Jacksonville. And you bring Tom Coughlin in to be this stabilizing force and the opposite happens, where it just creates this environment that is unhospitable for players. Same kind of deal with Urban Meyer, right?

You think you're bringing in this stabilizer, this guy who's going to keep the train on the tracks, and the opposite happens. So I think it's kind of a reminder that the guys who can do that for you that can quell the storm a little bit maybe aren't these head ball coach type of personalities that we kind of cut from this new rockney cloth that maybe doesn't make a lot of sense anymore. So that brings me to the next question here is what should they do? What type of coach should they be looking for? Who should be on their short list as they try to figure this out?

Yeah, I think it actually is a bit of a difficult question because it's twofold. I mean, number one is how do you maximize Trevor Lawrence's potential? I mean, that is number one. That's going to, you know, you can make all kinds of errors in free agency in the draft. If he's the guy who he's supposed to be, it's going to make up for a lot of that. It's going to erase a lot of those mistakes. I mean, we see that happen all the time in the NFL. So that would be number one.

But like you said, you know, so does that mean you don't hire a first time head coach? like with someone like, you know, Byron Left Witch, Kellyn Moore, you know, these coordinators who we think are going to be mentioned in this cycle, you know, that to me would make some sense or do you need someone who has done it before, you know, because you don't want them coming in and saying, shoot, I didn't know I was going to have to deal with X, Y, and Z. Is there someone like Doug Peterson, Jim Caldwell? It might not be somebody who you're throwing a parade for right away with the hire and everyone's fired up, but it's like, all right, they know the deal here.

They've worked with quarterbacks before. They deserve a shot. those are probably the two, you know, I don't have like a list of names, but those are sort of the two avenues I'm looking at. If you can get someone who fits both of those, that would be ideal. But the biggest thing, which they should have learned, is that a coach needs to be able to assemble a staff that is really strong. So maybe it's not the most exciting coordinator, you know, hot, hot offensive coordinator, but do they have a list of people, hey, this is going to be my quarterback's coach, this is going to be my OC. These guys are going to put, you know,

Trevor Lawrence will improve, number one. I can. show you how these guys have done it in the past. It's going to happen here. So those are some of that. I know I'm rambling there, but those are some of the things that kind of come to mind when I think about who they should go with going forward. And last thing I'll say is it needs to be someone who there's harmony with the front. I mean, the last with the front office, the last thing they need is some head coach GM battle coming in. So you need to have two people who are aligned, bring them in, say, hey, if it works out for one of you, it's going to work out for both of you. If one of you's fired, both of you are fired. So go ahead. Here are the keys and make it work. Well, I think

the front office part of this, there's no reason for them to say like, oh, Trump Alki, you're still the GM. Like, you're the GM. We'll bring in a new head coach. He was the interim GM last year after they moved on from that front office structure and then was just given the job, which seems to be a habit for them, for those guys down there. Like Dave Caldwell was there in various roles for numerous years. You guys can just press the reset button if you want. There's no reason you have to kind of keep dragging these half regimes with you. And I feel like considering that might be worthwhile. Like, Trump Balky's been there for a year. It's not as if the Jags crush the personnel side of this over the last year or so.

They absolutely didn't. So I think everything should be on the table in terms of solutions, potentially bringing someone in, like we've seen with other structures, right? Like the partnership that we see in a place like Indianapolis, for example, and what Chris Ballard and Frank Reich there are together. San Francisco is not perfect, but bringing those guys in together. I like that. Like, I just like trying to have that. We have one vision. We are aligned.

This is how we're doing this sort of approach. Even the structure of it and who gets final say and all that stuff is a different consideration. But I think that hitting the reset button starting over, there is value in that. And I think that they should consider it. What do you think of the Doug Peterson thing? Because you covered him. You know his personality.

I'm curious how you think he fits in a role like this because that was the first name that came to mind for me. Yeah. Personality. Absolutely. I mean, if you remember when the Eagles hired Doug Peterson, it was coming off the Chip Kelly tenure. And what the owner Jeffrey Lurie said at the time was, we need someone, forget it, is it emotional IQ? Emotional intelligence.

Yeah, that was the buzzword that he used. Emotional intelligence. But I can tell you that that's absolutely legit. I mean, players liked him. He came from the Andy Reed tree. He was a player's first coach. They had the meetings every week, bring in one leader from each positional group, you know, talk to me, how our practice is going. Do I need to ease up this week?

Taking player input. I mean, I are even, and that's a cultural thing too. I mean, I remember Jim Schwartz saying, yeah, during one game, like, yeah, Malcolm Jenkins came over and told us we needed to, you know, do X instead of, you know, this instead of this coverage against this personnel. And we did that. And it helped. Like, are the coaches willing to listen to that? So I think from that respect, he absolutely makes sense. In terms of offensive schemer, getting the most out of Trevor Lawrence, I mean, I think he's got a show I can put together a strong offensive staff. That was an issue in Philadelphia. You know, he had his guys. He was loyal to them, which I think there's, you know, something admirable

about for sure. But in the end, the staff was not great. They were not getting the most out of their players. It felt like the offensive ideas were stale. The Carson Went situation was obviously a disaster. So that's what I would want to know. I would want to know, hey, Doug, what did you do in the last year? We know he visited a couple different training camps. What ideas did you pick up that you might want to implement during your next stop as a head coach in terms of your staff, in terms of your offensive scheme and see what he says there. But, you know, Peterson is an attractive head coach not only because of the emotional intelligence thing, but like he's not going to be, hey, I need all personnel say. You know, you can really hire a personnel person who's going to do that aspect of the job for him. You can get a top tier defensive coordinator.

He's not going to be in those meetings telling them what to deal. He'll hand him the keys and say, give me a veteran D.C. And this guy's going to get the most out of my defense. So in that respect, like, he's not going to be meddling in all those different areas. So I think that, you know, would be something if I were an owner that would certainly be attractive. I mean, there could be some guys on the market this year. Like a Mike Kimmer, a Vic Fangio. I mean, there could be options.

And that is very intriguing to me. My understanding at the end of the Doug Peterson era. And this is just a larger conversation about coaches and what they might learn. That last year especially, really after Frank Reich left, I think this was a consistent problem. Too many voices. Just way too many voices. And when you have this chorus of different voices chirping in your quarterback's year, so what if we did it this way?

What if we did it this way? What if we did it this way? That's a problem. And I think the people there and people on that staff have admitted to me that it was a problem. And that's something you learn as a head coach. I need to put my foot down. I need to be the singular voice. And if you listen to the people in Indianapolis, talk about the way they've dealt with Carson Wentz.

Frank Reich is the singular voice. They are at the end, he is the one that Carson Wentz is hearing. They are on the same page when it comes to the vision for the quarterback. And that's something hopefully Doug Peterson learned. That's something that can be fixed. That is not some broken, rotten aspect of who you are as a head coach. So you'd hope that you learn from what that situation was like and you bring that into your next stop. And you combine that with all of the good qualities that he has.

had as a head coach. He's very interesting to me as a name for a job like this because I think he checks a lot of the boxes for what this team should be looking for. Yeah. And it also speaks to the front office and ownership structure. You know, in Philadelphia, it wasn't just, hey, Doug, go hire your staff. It was, hey, you know, we kind of like, look at what Kyle Shanahan's doing over there. Can we get, oh, hey, Rich Skangarello's available. You know, let's bring, all right, put together, you know, this guy from college, Rich Skangarillo, your own thoughts and mess it all together there. So, you know, there has to be some kind of understanding at the same time, you know, Peterson did not always have the ideas of, hey, here's how we're going to fix things

and make things better from last year. So, you know, there's always both sides of it. But you're absolutely right. Yeah, I wouldn't look at that as kind of like a fatal flaw or anything with Peterson. I think it probably should be an offensive coach. I feel like that when you're thinking about what you need in your organization and how important Trevor Lawrence's development and success is to who you're going to be over the next 10 years. Somebody like Leslie Frazier comes to mind, like as a defensive coach, again, somebody that's well-liked, that has experience. I feel like someone that has done this before, and again, has some success, has some

proof of concept, but it has a different sort of personality. That, to me, is the blend that I'd be looking for. But who knows? You know, there are so many first-time head coaches that come into the league and are perfect solutions for some of these problems. it just feels to me like they need to make sure that the overall vision and the overall message is aligned and that there is dialogue between players and coaches, that there is just a culture of respect over there in a way that there has not been over the last five to 10 years.

That to me is the number one thing that needs to be solved. Absolutely. Leadership first. And it's always harder with the offense, defense thing. I'm with you only because it's hard if you know, you could hire a great. CEO type head coach, a defensive guy who brings in a great offensive coordinator, but it just seems like so often, unless that's a veteran offensive coordinator who's not going anywhere, if that's a younger guy or somebody who's looking for a chance to be a head coach, I mean, if he has two years with Trevor Lawrence and Trevor Lawrence looks awesome and another team's

looking for a head coach, that guy's gone. So you have to have a plan. I mean, I would ask this question of every defensive candidate or CEO type I interviewed. All right, this is your first offensive coordinator. What's your plan for that situation? How are you going to build that pipeline where, hey, the quarterbacks coach can just step in and be the offensive coordinator or you're going to build younger guys on the staff who can come in and replace that? Because that's always the worry when you have that type of setup. Byron Leftwood is an interesting name just because of the Jacksonville connection. I worry that they'd chase it for that reason. And that's a bad reason.

Yeah. So that's the only thing I have there. It's like, guys, first time head coach. Is it because you're trying to tap into this more successful era of the franchise? that gives people some decent feelings down there. So I think that he's a worthwhile head coaching candidate in a lot of situations. I just worry what the reasons would be. And that, again, just kind of speaks to the larger question they have to ask. Do we want a first time guy? Do we want someone with some experience?

Because they need to do everything they can to get this taste out of their mouth because it was as bad and as embarrassing as you could possibly imagine. It's like, as we're talking out, I'm kind of like, you know what? They're probably going to have to luck into someone. Yeah, I don't really trust. their process to, you know, nail this. I think they're going to, you know, look at some of the lists online. You know, I don't know if Sandow or someone's doing one for us, they'll look at some of those, you know, they'll print them out, do some check marks. Hey, you know, who's this guy's agent?

Give them a call. And maybe it'll work out. But, you know, like I said earlier, I'm not giving them the benefit of the doubt that this is going to be a fantastic process and they're going to come away with the right guy. But maybe they'll luck into someone. For Trevor Lawrence's sake, you know, maybe they'll luck into someone. And I don't think they'll hire a jerk. So that will be a step in the right direction, if nothing else. Well, we're going to put a pin in our Urban Meyer conversation for right now. I'm sure we will return to it as the stories inevitably start to trickle out here over the next week. It's going to be wild.

I have a lot of confidence in the fact that we are going to hear some truly weird stuff over the next week or so. Shia, thank you very much for the time, my friend. Appreciate you scrambling the Jets here on a Thursday morning. Thanks for having me. Talk to you soon. All right, guys. Thank you very, very much. Appreciate you sticking by with us.

We will be back tomorrow with Sheel and Nate for our normal Friday episode. Until then, please rate and review the podcast on your podcast platform of choice. Please subscribe to the athletic.com slash football show. We'll be back tomorrow. Talk to you guys soon. This was the Athletic Football Show.