The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - NFL Combine Recap: Anthony Richardson wows, Bryce Young weighs in, and more with Dane Brugler

Episode Date: March 6, 2023

The entire NFL world spent the last week in Indianapolis for the 2023 Scouting Combine. So...what happened? Who opened eyes with their performance in drills? What are the biggest headlines and takeaways? Dane Brugler breaks it all down with Robert Mays on this episode of The Athletic Football Show.Follow Robert on Twitter: @robertmaysFollow Dane on Twitter: @dpbruglerSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTubeToday's show is brought to you by...Atlassian: For projects impossible alone, visit www.atlassian.comPhilo: Sign up today at philo.tv and use promo code MAYS to get 50% off your first month4:28 Top takeaways from the combine11:10 Anthony Richardson wows everyone23:02 Bryce Young's size28:21 Will Levis's week32:18 The Jalen Carter news35:40 Others who did well for themselves38:12 The wide receiver group45:15 Other standouts60:06 Cornerbacks63:22 Running backs and offensive linemen66:25 Edge rushers69:34 Will Anderson74:54 The best things we ate in Indianapolis Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays. Joining me today, the athletics draft expert guru. This is the king of this time of year. Dan Bruegler. Dan, how you doing, buddy? I'm doing great.

It's been a long week, right? It's more so than like any other week during the year, the Combine Week, just there's so much info that comes at you. You're going from morning to night every single day. It's just a long week. There's so much to take from it. But then we have to kind of sit back, dissect it all, figure out what it all means. And, hey, I guess that's what we're going to do on this show.

I was up until at least two every night from Monday through Thursday night. They're long, long days. They're great. It's one of my favorite weeks of the year. I just, I love seeing everyone. I love seeing all the media friends that you have, catching up with people you wouldn't otherwise running into people you've never met. That part is great.

It's just good conversations that way. The football conversations are fantastic. There's nothing like it. I go to training camps every single year where I'm going to 20 teams. And that's fun. But there's an urgency even to those conversations because guys are running to and from meetings or, you know, three other guys are there that day. And there's a decent amount of downtime at the combine.

I mean, I think that's the reality of it, especially now that they've flipped the workouts to the evening, there's a decent amount of idle time. So it's a really good time in the calendar to just kind of sit, catch up, pick people's brains. And I don't think I knew that when I was 27. Now I do know that. So my combine time is a little bit different. But when I got home on Friday, I was in bed asleep by 10. And I slept for like 10 and a half hours.

My fiance is like, are you okay? Is there something wrong with you? I was like, I'm absolutely fine. I'm just on a sleep deficit, the likes of which I am not used to at this stage of my life. Well, and this year was a little unique because they, Last year was the prime time, and that was awful, where all the drills were happening at night. This year, they started at 3 o'clock Thursday, Friday, and then 1 o'clock Saturday, Sunday. And so, you know, that was as much for the players and the Combine prospects as it was for everybody else.

So you could still go out at night. You could still, you know, help that Indianapolis economy with the bar scene and all the restaurants. And so it's just, you know, it's a, it's a fire hose of info just coming at you. And you can't walk down the street in Indianapolis without seeing somebody that either you know or you know of and that you recognize. So it's just, yeah, really fun week. So I just got home today. And it's, I'll tell you what, that pillow is looking awfully soft and soon enough. I'm happy for you, buddy.

You'll get there at some point. We got to do this first, though. The fire hose that you mentioned, that's what we're doing tonight. We're going to try to guide the fire hose. We're going to try to take the information from the workouts, some of the discussion and news around some prospects. We really haven't talked about the J.1 Carter situation on this show up to this point. I think we have to dig into that. Really, just everything you need to know about what happened in Indie here over the last five or six days.

So let's start at the top. If you're thinking about what you're the number one takeaway you're going to have from this weekend in Annapolis, is. Your biggest thing, it's like, man, this is what I'll remember about this combine. Where would you start? Quarterback and wide receiver day at the combine is, it's always the most fun. Those are the fireworks. And sometimes it lives up to that. Sometimes it doesn't. I thought this year did. And as I was leaving Lucas Oil Stadium Saturday night, I was thinking about, or the lasting thought that I kept going through my mind was the performance we saw. from C.J. Stroud, Ohio State

quarterback. Really, he didn't do anything that was surprising because you could turn on any of his tapes this season. He's surgical from the pocket. But watching it live was just a little bit different. You saw the composed footwork, smooth delivery, the ball comes out so

quick and tight. And then what you love the most about Stroud is he puts a premium on accuracy, places the throw to help out his target, and that's exactly what we saw during every single one of his throws. at the combine during the passing drills. For me, when I evaluate a quarterback throw in person,

you want to be able to feel just how natural everything is. And I think that's what we saw with Stroud. You want to see how repeatable everything is from their feet all the way up to their arm and their eyes and the way they see everything. With Stroud, that's exactly what we saw. Everything was repeatable. Everything was natural.

The touch, the way he layers, the way he controls ball speeds. it's all very repeatable. It was all accurate. And I wrote in my combine preview how Anthony Richardson and C.J. Stroud going back to back because they do all the drills in alphabet of order, how interesting that would be. Because on one side of it, you have Richardson who's just got this rocket launcher for an arm. And then you've got, you know, Stroud's arm strength, which is good, but he doesn't have a power arm. How, you know, would that stand out at all? But then also the juxtaposition, which was, okay, Richardson's placement might be. a little off compared to Strouds where all of his balls were on point. And I think that's exactly what we saw. Stroud is just, he's so good at finding his rhythm. And this is a really unique setting to throw. You're throwing the receivers you've never thrown to. You're in shorts and a T-shirt.

But he still was able to find that rhythm. And he's touching up his throws. He's throwing with pace, throwing with accuracy. So as an evaluator, you feel like you have, with Stroud, you see a high floor. You know, the ceiling is a little tougher to figure out. I think that really depends on how he embraces the athleticism and the ability to create some of those off-scheduled plays. We don't necessarily get to answer those questions here at the Combine. But if you watch his passing performance at the Combine, I think you feel coming away, you feel like, okay, this guy has a really high floor as an NFL starter.

How many guys, top guys, top five-ish prospects, have we seen three? throw recently. Because all of the buzz about his throwing workout, it does feel like not as many top guys are throwing at the combine over the last few years and kind of creating this narrative about themselves. Is that off base? Anecdotally, that's what it seems like to me. I can't remember a top five pick where we came away from Indy being like, man, he just threw really well because so many guys have elected not to throw recently. Yeah, it really is hit or miss. Some years we do, some years we don't. I mean, I remember my first. My first combine was. back in 2011 when I remember seeing Cam Newton throw, and it was not good. I mean, it was all over the

place. And, you know, he's still what number one overall. So I don't know that teams don't want quarterbacks to come into this and say, well, I'm just going to wait to the pro day. I'm wait until everything's a lot more scheduled and everything. So I don't think teams kill the quarterbacks if they're not perfect and on point. It's just more, can you come here and show off? And I think that's what Stroud did. It kind of seems like he's the forgotten man in the narrative conversation around the quarterbacks in this draft, especially after the combine. Because coming into it, we had so many discussions about Bryce Young's size, which we get into. I think that Anthony Richardson this week, based on how he tested, has really stolen a lot of the attention because he's probably the most athletic quarterback we've ever seen at the combine.

So when you're looking at CJ Strau just as a prospect, I know this is dicey territory. but who are you comping him to in terms of that floor ceiling conversation where he could potentially land? What sort of guy are we looking at? Because I feel like we haven't talked about him that much. I was talking, I was at dinner with Greg Coussel the other day talking with him about this. And I get a lot of heat for it, but I see a floor of like, you know, like Jared Gough. I think there's some parallels there with what Jared Gough does and what C.J. Stroud does. It's not apples to apples, perfect comparison.

I think Stroud does have a little more athleticism to him, even though he doesn't always show it. And that's kind of the big question with him. But the way that they can use all three levels of the field, I mean, C.J. Stroud led all of college football last year and completions of 30 plus yards. So this isn't like a guy that's just taken advantage of underneath throws and crossers. And, you know, he's hitting those deep balls.

So I think that there is, there are some comparisons there with Jared Gough. Again, I don't, it's not a perfect comparison, but I think you can see some of that. I think the biggest knock of the biggest concern about Jared Gough, as it relates to his ceiling, is that lack of playmaking ability and off-schedual playmaking. So if there's a little bit more of that with C.J. Stroud, then I think that suddenly becomes pretty interesting. Right. And I think that's, that's the question with C.J. Stroud. That's, okay, am I getting the guy that we saw in the Georgia tape in the Peach Bowl, who, you know, his first 27 games. games of his college career, he had one single, one, mistackle against Georgia, he had three. Okay, so what guy am I getting here? And, you know, he had a month to prepare for that game. And so, you know, it clearly, they talked to him about being a little more creative, being a little

more accessible with his feet. And he did a nice job with that. But is that truly his comfort level? Can it become his comfort level? I think that's where teams are going to be debating. and that's what will determine his ceiling. But I think, again, you feel good about the floor, and his passing workout was a great example. Why? Let's talk about Anthony Richardson. He's going to be the most athletic quarterback

that has ever come through the combat, which is insane. I mean, you look at every, the fact that he weighed in at 244 and then did everything he did as a tester, it's unbelievable. I mean, historic stuff. So put that in context for me.

Does that change the way that teams are going to, look at Anthony Richardson? Does it change the way that you look at him? Did you already know this is going to happen? So it doesn't really move the needle all that much. Just talk me through what this really means what we saw this week. No, I don't think this changes. I mean, if anything, it was just fun to see. I mean, it was, it was entered. Which is enough sometimes. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I mean, that's, but I don't know anybody that was truly surprised, uh, people that have actually, you know, watched them play and studied and played. I mean, if, if, like, In my combine preview, I wrote, okay, if the over undersers 4-50, I'm taking the under, easy.

And he ran a 4-4-3 at 244 pounds, you know, one of the most, the fastest 40s we've ever seen for a quarterback. And the other guys that are ahead of them are like RG3 and, you know, guys that are 20 pounds, more than 30 pounds less. So it's, and not only that. That's an amazing tight end workout. Like that is an incredible tight end workout. and workout. As Vernon Davis. I mean, it's remarkable. Yes. 40 and a half inch vert and then 10.9 broad. So, I mean, this is with him going out there and flexing and say, listen, guys, this is what I do. This is who I am. It's kind of like Justin Fields running at the Ohio State Pro Day when he was coming out. He didn't have to.

But it was a flex. It was like, I know I'm fast. And now I'm going to show you. I'm going to put a number next to my name that's going to blow you guys away. So, you know, going back to my, you know, in the summer, my quarterback preview, I wrote, he's a freak show. Like, it's not something that is new information that we didn't know, but it was a lot of fun to see him do it. And then also not just the testing, but seeing how big and athletic he is out there in person and then throwing the football, the unforce velocity is just remarkable. Now, the accuracy, the timing, it was okay. It was a little up and down. Not Stroud's level, but not terrible either. But, I mean, it was fun to see the ball just explode off his hand.

There's something about watching a quarterback throw in person that makes you really appreciate what he does. I mean, it doesn't matter if it's Josh Allen or whoever. Just when you see him actually throw in person, you just come away with a much better understanding of how special that is. is and how important it is. So, but with all that said, I do think that the biggest step for Richardson at the combine was all about the interviews and the board work. Everything on the field was him, give him a chance to show off. But behind the scenes, the interviews, that's what's really

going to move the needle on where we're talking about Anthony Richardson being drafted. And there were mixed reviews, honestly, about that. The feedback I got was he did a nice job overall, but there's just a lot of work he needs to do. There's a lot that, you know, he just doesn't know yet. And that's not surprising considering he's a redshirt freshman. You know, he didn't come from a big time high school. So there's a lot of quarterbacking he had to learn when he got to Florida. And then he only had 13 starts. And, you know, with two different coaching staffs. And, you know, there's just a lot of, a lot of things going on there that, you know, there's going to be a lot he has to learn once he gets to the NFL. So, you know, a lot of what he does.

just natural. You know, when you see him go out there and throw and move, it's all very natural to him, but obviously, like we know, playing quarterback in the NFL, it's a lot different. And so his ability to, how quickly can he get everything that he needs to get on the field? That's going to be, the answer to that question will be different depending on who you ask. So, you know, if you're going to take him top five, top seven, you better be convinced that he's going to be the first one in the building, exhausting every resource to figure out, okay, this is what I need to do to get on the field. This is what I need to know, you know, just to build up that acumen. And so I think teams are going to be really split on, you know, can he be that guy or can he be

that guy? It's interesting because I've been fascinated by this over the last several years, but I think this year really kind of put it into focus. When you have a quarterback that is a work in progress, when he is not just a ready-made capable starter in the NFL from day one in the way that Joe Brown. Burrow and Justin Herbert were. So the guys you come back to immediately are, in my opinion, Josh Allen and Jalen Hertz. Both of those guys are wired the right way.

They had the physical skills, but they're absolutely wired the right way. But what I come back to with Josh Allen and Anthony Richardson is that even though Josh had a ton more starts in college, he had a larger body of work, he didn't play quarterback in one of these, in a lab camps from the time he was young. He came to the position late, and he had a lot of work to do. So if you're trying to find comparison points, that's where I would probably start than Anthony Richardson, right? He just hasn't gotten the chance to work on this stuff as long as some of these other guys have.

And that's how if you're trying to talk yourself into the upside and how much more polished he can become, that's probably where it would start, right? No, absolutely. And that is where, as an NFL team, as evaluators, you have to really become a psychologist and get into the mind of these guys. And that's where those of us on the outside, that's where we're kind of in the dark. And we're left waiting for information on how these interviews went and what we think, what teams really think. And, you know, we can't really digest all of that and get to the bottom of Anthony Richardson like some teams can.

Or they think they can at least or they hope. So, you know, Anthony Richardson, it's going to be a fascinating one because physically it's got everything you can possibly want. Now it's just a matter of, okay, I think you're spot on about the way, you know, you said how they're wired right. like Jalen Hurst is a great example. Like he, the mental toughness that you have to have to all the mistakes that he made, but he, you know, you learn from them. But you have to have that mental toughness to come back and, you know, put every mistake behind you.

Not every guy can do that. A lot of guys, the mistakes compound. They pile up. And, you know, not everyone is wired like Jalen Hurts said. They can do that. And not every team has, will give a quarterback that opportunity to take, their medicine and get better on the field while still making mistakes. So with Anthony Richardson, it's going to take a team that, you know, I think he needs reps,

but at the same time, he's also not going to be ready to play right away. So figuring out when they get him on the field, how to get him those reps so he can get better, be more consistent. It's really going to take an organizational decision to bring him in and have a plan for him. I can't get the Detroit thing out of my head. I can't. Oh, yeah. Until we get there, I'm never going to.

going to be able to. It's just said, the words I keep coming back to, it's rare. This sort of chance is rare. He can just sit there. He can sit there for the entire year because so few teams that have a top 10 pick and need a higher upside at quarterback have the luxury of not playing the guy right away because there's organizational urgency to do it. And it's all going to come. And so it's, it's tough because even in conversations with coaches and people this week, it's like, well, you've got to like the guy. I know, I know you got to like the guy. I know that is a necessary components of this, but if you're thinking about it in a more abstract way, it's just that connection point makes sense where he can sit, he doesn't have to be thrown into the fire, you can move

along at your own pace, all of that stuff. So that being said, thinking about him at six. Over under Anthony Richardson, right now, your guess, pick six and a half in the draft. I'll be surprised if he's still on the board after the six pick. Oh, boy. And I just think that it's too enticing. I really do. I'm with you, man. Yeah, and not, I'm not just saying the lion specifically, but there's just, there's too many teams there. And, you know, it's tough because you can point to, you know, like the Raiders. Okay, like, you know, okay, Josh McDaniels. And would they have the patience for a quarterback like this?

I mean, you could really go either way. You know, it's just the list of quarterbacks in the NFL who had fewer than 400 pass attempts in college, it's a short list. It's not a very long list. I mean, we just, we went through this with Trey Lance two years ago. But, you know, that was COVID related and, you know, there were some things going on there. This is just he, he's a puppy. He has not had time to really develop. And, you know, it's, it really puts a question mark.

So, you know, and I had a, I had a scouting director point this out to me earlier this week. And this made total sense. You know, he meant, you know, because I think so much we talk about how a guy with tools or a quarterback with tools, you say, oh, the ceiling is through the roof, you know, what he could be. Something that he said was that they've got it wrong. They got it backwards. See, the arm talent, the physical traits, that sets the floor. What sets the ceiling is the interviews, the boardwork, everything between the ears.

That's what sets the ceiling. Because you can survive on the traits early on. It helps you get there. It's a bridge to a different version of yourself. And that's why it's almost become non-negotiable for certain guys, right? In my opinion, I wonder what you feel about this. I think that Joe Burrow, kind of to me, is like the floor of athleticism for high-end quarterbacks early out in your career.

Where can you survive in the pocket? Can you extend plays? And I had somebody say this to me. I can't remember who it was. It might have even been Jordan Palmer a couple years ago when we were talking about this new era of quarterbacks. And he said, to me on the record, he said, I think Jared Golf would be the last guy that goes number one that has that little, those, that less.

level of movement skills. And I think that we've kind of entered that phase, and it does have to do more with the floor with the ceiling than sometimes. And I think that it's tough because it's not like you can look at a 40 or a dash, because it's more than just movement. It's a feel. You know, and Joe Burrough, he's so advanced. He teaches a master class on feeling and moving. And it's not something that you can really quantify with a number at the combine. It's it's something that you can just, by studying the tape and seeing how he's how he's handling it, it's really something to be impressed by. And so I don't, with a guy that came through Richardson with, and you see that, we see the movement, you see him escaping and all that.

But the feel to move around the pocket and buy those extra, you can see it on film, but at the NFL level, it's a different animal. And it's funny because you mentioned the guys with less than 300 attempts. Cam Newton was one of those guys, ready, 292 attempts in college. But Cam Newton was a supernova. his last year at Auburn.

Oh my God. And he did it by himself. There was nobody else on that Auburn team. He willed that team to the national championship. So, and Andy Richardson, he started 13 games and had a losing record. So, yeah, it is something that I think Cam Newton is a very natural comparison. Not just not saying you're making that comparison, but I think just in general, I understand why many will compare him to Cam Newton.

But that's a big difference in performance and what they were able to do on the field. Even he compared himself this week, kind of a blend of Cam Newton and Lamar Jackson. Lamar Jackson had a lot longer of a track record at Louisville. But again, Lamar Jackson was the best player in college football. He was the best and most electric player in the sport. And that just didn't happen with Anthony Richardson. So I think that's absolutely worth keeping in mind. All right, let's stick with the quarterbacks here very quickly.

Bryce Young measures 510 and 1 8th inches and 204 pounds. Bryce Young and I both, I think, ended the regular season. I've already made this joke when I'm making it again. Ended the regular season at like 5.10.5. 185. And after the Super Bowl and the combine, we're about 510 and a half, 200. It's for very different reasons. He was purposefully trying to do that. I got there on accident based on the way that I ate.

But Bryce Young cracking that 200 palm mark. Again, let's point that into context a little bit. Does that answer any questions for you? Are you still worried about his frame? Where are we at after Bryce Young weighed in? Yeah, something about going to Indianapolis just makes sense. makes the weight go up a little bit. I totally get that.

Beyond the steak at St. Elmo's, it was the butter in the mashed potatoes. Like the texture of the potatoes is like, I'm going to gain eight pounds at this meal. I know that's going to happen. And that's just how it went. And we'll be talking a little bit more about some of those meals later on. So look, I don't, I get why Bryce Young did what he did because he's playing the game. He will go down as a 200-pound quarterback, as opposed to, if he came in, it was 197, oh, well, he's below 200 pounds, and that's going to follow him

his entire career. Now he can say, on his, on his football card, they still make football cards, right? Yeah, so on his football card, yeah, it'll say 204, 205, whatever, even though his playing weight is probably around 190. That might be being a little bit generous. So, you know, it won't be a mystery that when he goes to his pro day and he has a full throwing session, I bet he won't weigh that day because you know what? He's already got that number down and that's all it matters.

Look, it really honestly did not matter what he weighed in, whether it was 192 pounds or 204 pounds. He's small. Either you're okay with that or you're not. That's as simple as it gets. And so it's just a matter of every team has to be comfortable with that. I think you're comfortable with everything else.

I mean, he doesn't have a power arm. I think there's sometimes where he's in the pocket and he can't escape and everything constricts. and you can really see the lack of a power arm. That is something you can point out as a legitimate concern. But after that, it just comes down to the size and his body structure. It's just different than a Kyler Murray, who, you know, we saw a lot of comparisons on Twitter, right? They're just, they're two totally different body types with Bryce.

He's just very slender. The shoulders, the torso, it's more slight. And it's not a situation where, okay, we'll just build them up. I don't think it's quite that simple. So you just have to be comfortable with his body type. Some teams will be. Some teams won't. And you look at just the way that, yeah, like Kyler Murray is built.

Kyle Murray's lower body is just so much more substantial than a guy like Breits Young's is. And even if you want to make that Kyle Murray comparison and they weigh in almost the exact same numbers, Kylea Murray has an electric arm. For his size, it almost doesn't make any sense how much arm strength he has. And also, Kyler Murray's been hurt the last couple of years. he has not been able to physically withstand playing quarterback in the NFL at that size. And even when we still think Bryce Young is slighter than that, other guys who have been slight quarterbacks. Lamar Jackson has had trouble staying healthy over the last couple of years.

6-2-215. If you look at the way it's distributed, he's also a fairly thin, skinny guy. He was a little bit bigger this year. Some people think he was a little bit slower as a result of that. These concerns are real. Like your ability to operate as an NFL quarterback at that size, there's a real. reason there aren't that many of them. There's a reason teams don't make exceptions. And even

if some people are going to say, well, it's the same as Kyle Murray. He went number one. It's worth him going number one. I think that there's a lot of things worth considering when you're making that comparison. Kyler's a much more electric athlete. So, yeah, the comparisons don't make any sense at all. And I think

Kyler's much, I mean, he's, I think he's closer to 210 now. And that's not something that Bryce Young is going to be. That's not his playing weight. And you just have to be okay with that. I think, and especially with Bryce, he's a guy that he welcomes the chaos. Like, he's not a guy that's going to be rushing and picking up yards with his legs all that often, but he loves to get outside the pocket and buy those extra half seconds so routes can come open.

And, I mean, if there's a free rusher coming at him, he welcomes it. Because he knows or he has a feel for making that guy miss and then going and making a play, second chance plays, third chance plays. He loved. And that might be his best part of it. his game because he's so instinctive. His peripheral vision is unbelievable. That's why I've thrown out,

I threw out the Steph Curry comparison before and people didn't like that. People just don't like comparisons. I've come to realize that. But he's in the NFL when everybody's a little bigger, a little faster and he's welcoming that. You know, it's just, it might be a little bit of a learning curve to not take as many hits on it, on his body that he did in the SEC.

speaking of SEC quarterbacks last guy and the kind of that top four at the position what were your will levis impressions coming out of the week and what if you heard physically really impressive i mean this the the way the arm comes or the ball comes off his arm is is really impressive he's he's kind of the prototype in a lot of reason in a lot of ways like the biomechanics of of his body the release and it's just it's almost perfection um now i thought there were some of some of his issues i think you could see with just the upper body and lower body not being on the same page, not being repeatable with his mechanics, and that does affect his accuracy at times. But overall, I thought it was a solid workout for him. The biggest thing with Levis is just that last year did not go as planned, and there's a lot of reasons for that. Some teams will look at him as reasons, some teams will look at them as excuses and want more out of that. So, you know, I know one offensive coordinator has him as a third tier quarterback. There's certain quarterbacks in the first tier, certain quarterbacks in that second

tier. He's got Will Levis in the third tier. It's like the, what, seventh or eighth quarterback? So, but I know there are several other teams that are really optimistic about what Will Levis is going to be at the next level. And it's more than just the physical traits. It's how intelligent this guy is, how tough he is. People don't realize he was getting injections, you know, shots.

every game last year over the second half of the season. He shouldn't have been out there, but he had a serious foot injury, only missed one game. I don't think people really realize how hurt he was. So that's another factor to consider. So Will Levis is a complicated projection. There's no doubt about that. You can see the talent.

You just wish he saw things a little bit quicker, but how much was the lack of a true supporting cast, a brand-new play caller who was already got fired? You know, how all those changes, how did that factor in to the inconsistencies we saw from him this year? I would stick near the top of the draft and, you know, bits of news that came out this week. Jalen Carter News, there was a arrest warrant issued for him in Georgia. He was accused of racing his Jeep in a fatal crash that involved a teammate and I believe a, sorry, in a fatal crash that involved a teammate and a Georgia football staffer.

So obviously, you know, it was, it dominated the conversation around the combine the day that it happened. we haven't really touched on it much. I wanted to ask you, what do you think this means for the conversation around him, what teams are saying, and just ultimately how it will play out as it relates to the draft? I think it's important to point out that teams did not know this was coming. This was a surprise. This was something that, you know, we've heard in the past, you know, quote unquote, character concerns with Jalen Carter, which I, those who I asked said that was a little unfair,

you know, is he a little bit immature? Yeah, but most 20, 21-year-old kids in this draft, you know, you could say that about a lot of times that Kirby Smart had a ride, did he have to ride them to get the most out of him? Yeah, but it wasn't something that would stop them from drafting such an impressive talent. Now, this is a completely different situation where he made clearly a very poor decision and something that is more than just the initial act, it was the aftermath of not being there on scene and then what happened after. And, you know, he's taking care of it now. But how, how, when teams ask him about everything, how is he going to answer those

questions? That's, that's, again, for those of something on the outside, we don't really know how that's going to go down. And can he convince teams that, hey, this was a single act of industry. discretion and not a perpetual problem that is going to follow him to wherever he is drafted. And that's just what it comes down to. It's teams have to be convinced. It's an isolated incident.

It's not something that we're going to have to worry, bringing this guy into our program, into our building, into our community. And that's easier said than done, trying to figure out something like that. So teams drafting in the top five, top six, top seven, they're going to be doing a lot of homework on Jalen Carter to figure out, okay, are we, we know we're comfortable with the player. Are we comfortable with the person? And I'm not sure that a team has a great answer to that just yet.

And I think if there is a silver lining to the situation is it's not like the gas mask with Laramie Tunsell, where this is coming out the day of the draft and, you know, teams are scrambling. And teams have plenty of time to do their own, you know, investigating and really figuring it out. and that'll ultimately decide where Carter is drafted. Right now, with what we know, I'd be surprised if he fell out of the top five. But you know what? It's a dicey situation. We'll have to wait and see how it plays out.

Yeah, a lot of time between now and when that decision has to be made. Any other guys in terms of on-field workouts that really jumped out to you, somebody that you just feel like, again, is going to stick with you from this week? Well, I mentioned how Stroud, you know, walking out of that, out of Lucas Oil Stadium Saturday night, how Strauss' performance stuck with me. So did Jackson Smith and Jigba. His Ohio State teammate, really talented wide receiver. He missed almost all of last season. And so this was his chance to go back out there and say, hey, remember me? I'm still pretty good. And it's exactly what he did. So the routes were

outstanding. He caught everything. And again, it's kind of like Stroud, where if you studied the tape, you know, that's not a surprise. That's who Stroud was. And this is who Jackson Smith and Jigma is. He's a fantastic route runner, outstanding ball skills. The main question was just pure speed. He didn't run the 40. And honestly, I'm not sure we're ever going to see him run a 40. I don't know that he needs to. We didn't see it from Drake London last year.

And, you know, he fell to the seventh. Oh, no, he went top 10. So it's, you know, it's okay. I think Jackson's been the jigmas. He's not going to be in a hurry to run that 40. And Drake London didn't even work out, right? I mean, we didn't have anything from him. He did do positional. He did, he caught some balls, but that was it. But he didn't do any of the testing. He just caught passes. But with Jackson Smith and Jigba, he did do the short area agility drills, and he dominated. So in a three cone, he was at a 6.57 easily the top time this year. Not of just the receivers. I'm talking to any player this year, the best three cone drill.

and then in the short shuttle, a 393, which, it's just an unbelievable number to get under four seconds. Over the last decade, only three receivers have had a better short shuttle than Smith and Jigba, Brandon Cooks being one of them. So, JSN was just an outstanding positional workout. And then what he did in the three cone, the short shuttle, that it really matches up with the type of route runner that he is. He did jump to. The jumps were averaging. It was like 35 in the vert, which.

that's what you expected. He's not super explosive, but he's not a bad athlete either. So, yeah, I think that he's right there in the mix to be a first round pick, just like we thought. I don't think this makes him a locked top 20 pick, but some team's going to get a really good football player with JSN. So let's compare that to the testing and just the overall kind of discourse around the rest of the receiver class.

Because based on what little I know, you look at the testing from some of those other guys, Jordan Addison didn't blow people away. It was a flower as somebody in that conversation, Quentin Johnson. So with Smith and Jipa kind of doing this and kind of reminding everyone what sort of athlete he is, reminding him what sort of player he is to an extent, how would you compare that to where the rest of the receiver class is if you had to restack it up right now? Yeah, and I think with a lot of these guys having average numbers, you know, like you mentioned Jordan Addison.

He ran a 4-49. at a lightweight. You know, that's not ideal for, you know, he's, Jordan Addison's my top receiver at this point in the process. But, you know, it's close with him and Jalen Hyatt, Jackson Smith and Jigba, Quentin Johnston. You know, I think that this is just a reminder of, this isn't last year's receiver class.

This isn't the year before. We've been so spoiled with, you know, Jamar Chase and Jalen Waddle last year, six go in the top. what, 18 pick or 23 picks, whatever it was. But this isn't that type of class. So, you know, Jackson Smith and Jigba, as good as he was, if he's in last year's draft,

he might have been the seventh wide receiver drafted. I don't know. It's not a slam dunk that he's drafted ahead of Trayland Berks or Jahan Dodson, you know. And so that doesn't make Jackson Smith and Jigba any less of a receiver. It's just when you compare it class to class, this receiver class really stands out as being good, just not great. And it's not below average, but it's just solid. It's good.

And I think that we'll carry over into the second round, third round. There are some good receivers in here. But if you're looking for a number one guy, I'd just not convinced you're going to find it this year. Jackson Smith & Jigba, he's a slot receiver. If you already have your slot receiver, I just don't think you're going to be looking at Jackson Smith and Jigba all that seriously in the first round because that's what he is. I don't know that you can, you can't really look at his tape and see him win on the outside because he didn't do it. So, you know, it's just, I think you have to look at these receivers, understand what they are.

And I think teams have already accepted that this isn't the same receiver class we've seen the last two years. I think a lot of people, a lot of fans need to accept that. But it'll be interesting if we see any of these guys end up going in the top 20. Quentin Johnson from TCU, maybe the most physically impressive. You know, his high size, 6-4, he jumped really well. But, you know, I had one team point out that he's 208 pounds. Like, he's skinny. The play strength is a big concern.

Aside from the drops, aside from him being a raw route runner. So, you know, this is- Not necessarily playing that big. Right. I mean, even though he is 6-4, he doesn't always, you know, he doesn't necessarily have the play strength to match that size, that stature that you look at. So, you know, this receiver class, you know, it's not. It's a lot of good players, but I think teams are going to be a little disappointed if they're thinking they're getting a true number one out of this class.

The last guy I wanted to ask you about before I talk about some of the guys who are really impressed in the workouts, the defensive linemen from Northwestern, whose name I am not even going to almost try to pronounce because I hadn't heard of him before like 48 hours ago. So I'm not going to do what Nate would do and just stumble all over it. This is a guy who his tape is that of a day three pick, but he tests like a top 10 athlete. So first of all, tell us how you pronounce his name. And second of all, tell us what you're trying to do when you're reconciling those two different things. Yeah, that's, so first off, we're talking about Atatomiwa, Adabare, who is one of the freakyest athletes we've ever seen come through the combine, plain and simple. He comes in at 282 pounds and runs a 4-4-9. We've never seen a 280 plus pounder runs sub-4-5.

It's never happened before. So I, and now, okay, what do you do with this? That's the question, right? Because you watch him on film and, like, he watched you a house safe film. He did a nice job, mostly as a three technique. You know, he doesn't allow, he doesn't get reached. He's able to work up and down the line of scrimmage. But you don't watch his tape and say, oh, this is a first round pick.

Or it's even, he's a top 100 pick. But he goes to the senior bowl. has a really good week there of practice, mostly inside as a three. And then he goes to the combine and does what he did. And it wasn't like that. It was 37 and a half in avert, 10-5 broad, 27 reps on the bench. Just an unreal workout. What do you do with that now?

That's where he's probably the most complicated evaluation now because of what. So scouts, when they go through, Area Scouts, they go through these schools, you know, for like at school like Northwestern, they probably went multiple times, but probably twice. You have a grade over the summer when you studied him. You have a grade when you go to the first time, then you have a grade the second time. And then in December, when you turn in your grades to, you know, to home base, it says something. Okay?

And then so, so, the guy like Adibari, it's probably the grades from most teams were in that fourth, fifth, round range. But then he goes to the Senior Bowl, then he goes to the combine, and all of a sudden it's like, okay, what are we missing here? Because this is a big time athlete with power. And for a guy that's shorter, you know, he's 6-2, he has 34-inch arms. So this guy is super long. You know, there's more to him than just what the tape showed. And so it's like, okay, can we get more out of him? Is he an edge player? Is he, do we want him in the inside? So the grade now, it's going to change a little bit. And so teams have to reconcile that and figure out,

okay, where are we comfortable? Because the projection or the evaluation is one thing. Now it's up to the valuation and figure out, okay, where do we feel comfortable drafting him? If I had a guess right now, we're still, you know, we still have a long way to go, but I would guess he's probably going to go somewhere in the second round,

which is kind of crazy based on what we thought, you know, two months ago. But you just can't, you don't ignore what he's done, you know, the last month and a half. You just have to bet on the traits at a certain point, right? Especially when they're this rare.

Right. I think that's exactly it. For us, we've never seen a 280 plus pounder run a sub four or five. That means something. You know, what it is, I don't know.

I mean, it also helps. He's a great guy. You know, he's a Kansas City native. You know, his brother's actually a five star just signed with, I think,

Oklahoma. So, I mean, they've got the gene pool. That's for sure. All right, let's run through some guys you think really help themselves. It's just kind of really stood out. You know, it's always a stretch to say someone really helped themselves at the combine.

Like we just talk about that example is a good example. But other than that, we know a lot of this stuff. So let's start at tight end, somebody that really stuck out to you among that group this week. Oh, I got to go with Darnell Washington at Georgia tight end. You know, for a guy that's his size, you know, almost six, seven. 264 pounds. Basically was a sixth offensive lineman for the Bulldogs. Probably, he had arguably the most impressive number of the week at the combine.

And that was his short shuttle. At 264 pounds, he clocked a 408, which was the third best number at the combine this year. Not tight ends, third best overall. The two guys in front of him, Smith and Jigba and Jiu Brent, a corner. from Kansas State, they're both under 200 pounds. So Washington, 65 pounds greater than both these guys, and he put up a number that was close to there. So just a total freak number,

in the 510-5 drill, just, he can move. There's no question about that. You know, his 40 was respectable in the 4-6s. I mean, it's, you look at his production, and it doesn't get you excited, but then you realize, okay, they also had Brock Bowers. who's going to be a top 15 pick in next year's draft, and you see how good of a blocker he is,

and you understand, okay, he didn't get more targets because he was too valuable keeping him close to the line of scrimmage. And so this is a true combo tight end who can block his ass off, but he can also go and make plays as a pass catcher. He's an ascending pass catcher. So I have a hard time, and I thought this coming in, I didn't think he was going to put that type of number in the short shuttle. But I thought there's a good chance.

Okay, this guy's going first round. He's too impressive. And based on what he did at the combine, I have a very hard time believing he's going to be available after the first 31 picks in the first round. So after all the tight ends tested this week, how many do you think belong in the first round in your opinion, if we're going to throw him in there? Belong or how many do I think we'll go? Well, if that's a different answer, then we can explore why that's a different answer. But how many do you think we'll go in the first round? Well, I think it's a different answer because this tight end.

class is just, it's awesome, it's deep. So I think a lot of teams, not a lot of teams, but the few teams in the back half of round one, so I mean, let's just take, you know, yeah, every team in the back half of round one, eliminate the teams that aren't going to be considering a tight end. So we're down to probably four or five teams, maybe, okay? And then you look at those four or five teams, there might be three of them who say, you know what, we really like Luke Schoonmaker in the third round or Sam Leporta in the second round or, you know, we just feel so good about our depth at this position that, you know, we can get a guy in the second, third, fourth round that, you know what, let's get our corner here or let's get

our tackle here. I think that there's a good chance we see some of those teams think that way. But with that said, I do think there are four tight ends in this draft who, you know, deserve, maybe not deserve, but they grade high enough. Their first round talents. Yeah, they warrant consideration in the first round. We mentioned Darnow Washington. We didn't get to see Dalton Kincaid, the Utah tight end workout.

He's probably the best pure pass catcher of this group, the way he can isolate the football. And then how quickly he goes from pass catcher to ball carrier is phenomenal for a guy that size. So, I mean, Dalton Kincaid's there. He's more of your joker, your true, you know, your F tight end. Luke Musgrave from Oregon State, big-time athlete, but can be a Y, can line up in line, can block. He's a really fascinating tight-end profile because of his athleticism. For sport, I've asking people, four-sport athlete in high school, see how many people can guess the first four or the four sports.

And I've had very few people be able to name football, track, skiing, and lacrosse. But that's Luke Musgrave. he's just a, he's a big-time athlete. And he tested pretty well. And then Michael Mayer, who I think is the best of the group and didn't test like a freak, but he's a good athlete. He blocks well. And he's just, I think he's more along the lines of what a lot of NFL teams are looking for

with just that combo ability. I think he's also the best contested catch tight end. I've evaluated the last, I don't know, five, six years. I mean, he's just, he's really good in those contested situations. It doesn't matter to the crows. crowd around him. It doesn't matter where he is on the field. He has really strong hands, the way he can box out. He's got that basketball background. He thought he'd be playing basketball for Kentucky, which that didn't work out, but I think he's doing okay for himself.

So four tight ends can warrant first round consideration. Now, I'm working on a mock draft. That'll be up on the athletic here this week. And it's tough to figure out how many will actually go. I texted a scout over under three. He said that's exactly the line because I don't I don't feel great saying two and I don't feel great saying four. So I think right now, you know, hovering around the three numbers is probably the right way to go. I'm fascinated by how teams that need playmakers will look at this group compared to the receiver group. Because I think that that's a consideration going back to the trade that the Vikings made for T.J. Hawkinson. Going out and getting a guy like that in a market where you're not having to overpay the way

that you are a receiver right now. I was talking to a head coach this week and a head coach that I think needs playmakers. And he just referred to them as difference makers. Like we need a difference maker somewhere along the line. And that could be a tight end. So if you're a team that doesn't love the receiver class, but you just need a little bit more out of your playmaking group, do you look at this tight end group as a place where there are some opportunities?

Because they're not making $20 million a year. You don't need to pick one in the top 10. So do we see teams start to go that route a little? bit more because there's more access to players at this position than there are to some of the big time receivers that we're seeing going all over the place right now. I think it's very possible. The first one or two past catchers drafted this year are tight ends. And I'd be fascinated to get your opinion on this.

So, I mean, let's go back the last 15 years. There have been 12 tight ends drafted in the first round. You look at the list and you see a group of solid players. You're T.J. Hawkinsons. You're David and Jokos. Evan Ingram. Solid players, but no stars. Meanwhile, you look at the second round. And, you know, like between picks, 33 and 75, and it's a better group.

You're getting, you know, your Dallas Goddarts, your Colquette, Mark Andrews, Pat Friermuth, Zach Ertz, Gruncowski was in that range. I mean, how do you take that? If you're a talent evaluator, you're a general manager, how do you take information like that when the first round, crop of, you know, historic profiles of drafting the position is not as impressive as the second third round. And so does that affect your thinking when you're possibly looking at a tight end in the first round this year? Think about the impact that Dallas Goddard has on the game. If you knew that a guy was going to be Dallas Goddard, he was in this year's draft. And Dallas Goddard tested extremely well coming out of South Dakota State.

if we know kind of the contours of the sport right now and how much importance those patch catchers have and I told you that somebody would be Dallas Goddard would you take him in the top 20 right now I mean I think yeah I feel comfortable doing that if you told me I was getting Dallas Gardert sure and I just think that that's maybe that's the way to think about it just like yeah even if that guy was taking it in a second round if that's the impact that sort of player can have is that worth the top 20 pick I'd argue probably it's it's starting to become that way I also think that it depends on what you need, right? If you're a team like the Vikings where you have your number one receiver, you have the guy you can build your passing game through and you're looking

for complementary pieces, there's an argument that a really good tight end is 80% as valuable as a really good number two receiver, whatever the number happens to be. The market for that has not caught up. The franchise tag number for wide receivers and tight ends is literally half. So I do think that there is some hidden value to be found there if what you're looking for is complementary pieces rather than a guy to build your passing game through. I think that makes sense. And I look at teams like, take the Chargers, for example, they get so little out of their tight end position last year. And you have Mike Williams. Keenan Allen sounds like he's going to be back and be a big part of what they're doing on offense. You know, like you feel like at

receiver, they've got weapons. But what could a Michael mayor or Dalton Kincaid or whoever you plug in there. What could that mean to that offense? To me, that's fascinating. Or Jacksonville. You know, they've, you know, Evan Ingram's there, but, you know, we know Doug Peterson how much he liked to use the tight ends when he was in Philly, add another one to that group.

And, you know, what does that look like? Cincinnati. You know, you mentioned having the receivers, Jamar Chase, T. Higgins. Let's upgrade our Hayden Hurst and get a bigger star there, someone that's really, going to threaten defenses. So I do think that we're going to see three, four, five teams in the back half of round one seriously considered tight end and find it really tough to pass on one of these guys. That's where I'm at too.

And Cincinnati, there's going to be a time, I believe, where Tyler Boyd is going to have to be the odd man out there. You know, he's already gotten his second deal. He's going to be a little bit expensive. They're going to pay T. Higgins. So you're going to need that third receiving option. Is it best to kind of pay up for that guy rather than cycling through these one-year deals for guys like Hayden Hurst?

because the look of your offense is eventually going to have to change. I think those are the considerations that you have to keep in mind. Like what even the way that the, I know T.J. Hawkins is like the biggest star in the world, but the way that the Vikings passing game transformed when they got T.J. Hawkinson, it was real. But you could just feel how different it was with a guy who was a capable player at one of those spots. And I think that one of the reasons that these guys don't get drafted in the top half of the first round is because there are so few stars at the position, right? So if you guys who feel like earth-shattering players the way there are a receiver, but if you can find a guy in the top, in the back half of the first round that can be that sort of influence that can reshape your offense the way that a T.J. Hawkinson or Dallas Scott or those types of guys do, is that worth it? Or is the first round reserved for your corners and your pass rushers and guys with a much higher ceiling? I understand it both ways. But I do think that with the importance of past catchers becoming more and more and more prominent in the league, where can we find a little bit of a discount on a guy who can really help our offense?

Has to be something you're thinking about. Last week, or this past week at the Combine, I asked Will McClay, Cowboys de facto GM, if we're being honest. I asked him straight up about, okay, running back, tight end, two positions that the Cowboys could realistically look at in the first round. I asked them how do you look at positions like that where you could argue the value's not there, but if a special player is, how do you pass? And he said straight up, you know, like you play the percentages. You know, you do when it comes to the NFL draft and saying, okay, well, it's a better chance that, you know, we draft a position here, position here.

But at the same time, you have to stay true to what the tape tells you. You have to stay true to the traits and all the information you're getting. And if that leads you to one of those positions in the first round, then so be it. So, I mean, that's kind of how NFL teams think. And I know Will McClay is not the only one that thinks that way. It's because I think that one of the reasons that tight end has been one of those positions where you can find guys a little bit later in the draft is that it's not necessarily based on physical traits, like why guys succeed at that position because spatial awareness, understanding how to operate inside,

all the different things they ask you to do. And one of the other things I think complicates tight end is that because they're so, many different things that are part of that job description. It takes so long to develop into a difference maker at that position. A lot of these guys are three, four years into their career before we see them start to become the players that they are on their second contracts. You know, a lot of these deals that tight end sign, they end up looking like bargains because they get better into those second deals. Like Dallas Goddard is, I think, a really good example of that. I think we've seen that consistently at the position. So the evaluation,

it is just a little bit tougher than it is for some of these other spots. But I do, I find myself fascinated by it right now because I think it does tell us a lot about where offensive football is right now and what sort of players you might eventually need. Before we move off tight ends, one other player from the Combine I want to mention, Zach Coons from Old Dominion. He had a tremendous workout, 6-7, 255 pounds. He had the second fastest 40 at 4-55 for tight end. everything else he, I think he was first.

40-inch vert, 10-8-broad, 6-8-7-3-cone. A 6-8-7-3 cone at 255 pounds is just remarkable. He's a really interesting player at Penn State Transfer, who's just big physical freak. And his positional workout, I thought, was outstanding. So, Zach Coons, we saw last year, you know, Jalani Woods have a great pre-draft process and went up in the second round.

The Colts, you know, they saw those traits and said, Come on, let's go. And so Zach Coons is definitely a name to keep on the radar as a guy that came into the process as probably a mid-round pick. He hurt his knee late in the year, so we didn't see him in November, December. He wasn't at an all-star game because that knee wasn't even sure he was going to be able to work out at the Combine, but he did, and he put up some big-time number. So keep Zach Coons on the radar as a possible riser as we get closer. Didn't Old Dominion have a lineman at the Combine, too?

We had two Old Dominion guys working out of the Combine this year? Two Old Dominion guys plus Keon White to Georgia Tech defensive lineman who's going to be a top 40 pick. He transferred from Old Dominion. So, yes, mentioned Old Dominion more times this week than probably ever. All right. One other position we definitely wanted to hit was Corner. Your guy, Christian Gonzalez, had a really nice week. Obviously not a surprise to you, but kind of put into context his workout and compare that to what we've seen from the rest of this cornerback group and just how you're thinking about that collection of guys right now.

Yeah, Gonzalez was awesome. During the drills and then the testing, 438 and the 40, 41.5 inch vert, 111 broad. He was expected to test well, but it really matches the tape. And it kind of, it's like at the end of Avengers Endgame, you know, like the final battle when everyone's coming back and capses, assemble and all that fun stuff. I'm watching it and I'm wondering like, okay, why is this comic book movie giving me goosebumps? It's kind of like last summer. I'm watching Christian Gonzalez. I'm like, okay, why is this Colorado corner giving me goosebumps?

It was that good. It was awesome. And so a scout told me good things about him, and I was blown away by his 21 film. And then he transfers to Oregon. His 22 film was awesome. It was just as good, if not better. So, you know, the hype was there. He answered it.

He did a nice job at the combine during his workout. So plenty of buzz on Gonzalez from NFL personnel guys in Indianapolis. He's got a legit chance to be that first corner off the board as early as the top six or seven picks, it's possible. But after that, you know, Devin Witherspoon from Illinois in that mix. He didn't have a chance to work out. He'll be at the pro day.

Joey Porter from Penn State, Joey Porter Jr. He's big physical, 34-inch arms. He wants to press you. He wants to just smother you at the line of scrimmage. I thought he did pretty well. And then after that, I think the order is a little a little different for everybody. Deonti Banks from Maryland's a really big tester for his size.

He's definitely in that first round conversation. Keeley Ringo from Georgia as well. Maybe one of the most, the toughest evals among these corners, Emmanuel Forbes in Mississippi State, you watch his film and, okay, this guy, he goes after the ball, takes it away. The SEC record, the NCAA record for career pick sixes. But then he comes to the combine and you're like, okay, he's skinny. But how skinny is he?

6-1, and he measures in a 166. All right. What are you doing that? I mean, that's an issue. And talking to a Southeast scout, it's like, okay, the hope is he can get to 180. But, you know, if you're not at 180 right now, it's not. If you didn't get there for this. Right.

And I get it. You're trying to cut weight to run fast. And he did. He ran in the four-threes, four-five. but man, 166 is a glaring number. And this is, he's not 511. He's 6'1. So Emmanuel Forbes is a tough one because he's a, he's a good player.

I mean, Mississippi State has been cranking out those corners. Cam Danzler and MJ Emerson and now Forbes. He has a chance to be the best of the group, but that, you know, the run defense, the play strength, that's a real issue. All right. Anybody else really jumped off tape to you or jumped off the field to you as you were sitting in there watching the workouts? You know, I think O-line and running backs are the last ones to go.

We need to touch on them a little bit. I thought the top guys tested as expected. Paris Johnson, Broderick Jones, Peter Scronsky. They all looked really good. If I had to pick one guy who I thought maybe had the best offensive line workout, I think I'd go Darnell Wright, the tackle from Tennessee. He did a really nice job. Moved really well.

I think his, there's too much there for him to fall out of the top. 35, 40 picks. He has a really good chance to go somewhere in the first round. The need is there from teams. And I think that the ability's there. I think the bigger question with him is, okay, is he a right tackle only? Or can he play other positions?

Because last year at left tackle, it was a little rough. Move to right tackle this past season. And all of a sudden, everything clicked for darn out right. So he's a little bit of a complicated evaluation, but a good player. Bejan Robinson was as expected, ran in the four-fours, caught everything, did a nice job. He cemented himself as the top back. Now it's just a matter of, okay, where's Bejohn Robinson going to be drafted?

That's a tough one to answer, you know, just the position that he plays. And, you know, you do a simple mock draft and you go through team by team. And it's like, okay, they're not taking a back. They're not taking a run. It's hard to find those teams. And the ones that do usually don't draft a running back that early. Talking about, okay, Philly. They haven't drafted a running back in the first round since before I was born.

So, you know, it's something that is a little tough when you have such a talented player, like a Bijon Robinson, who I think he's number six on my top 100, and deservedly so. He's one of the best players in this draft. But where is the need in the first round? Where can you see that pairing? And at a certain point, it just becomes like, what are we doing? Like, this guy's too good. Let's not let another pick go by before we get this guy. There's a good chance. He's going to end up being a steel wherever he ends up falling. Some of the other numbers for running backs, Jamir Gibbs ran a 4-3-6. It was he kind of as advertised with the way he moves. He's so sudden. It's unbelievable to watch. He's a quarterback's best friend because the way he catches the ball, and he's an offensive line's best friend

because he's so good at pressing and reading and then hitting the hole exactly at the right time. And it just helps that he's also a 4-3 athlete with this remarkable footwork. So Jemir Gibbs to me is a first-round talent. Easy. You can't name me 25 better players in this draft than Jamir Gibbs. Now, will he go in the first round?

Probably not for the same reasons I just mentioned about Bejan Robinson, but that just means some team's going to get tremendous value in the second. I saw somebody compare him to Jamal Charles earlier in the week, just his testing, the way he moves. And I think we all need to remember how awesome Jamal Charles was. The fact that somebody who compares somebody to Jamal Charles is like, that instantly makes me like, okay, I'm interested now. Like, you have piqued my interest if that's the guy.

that you think he can be. Pass rushers, I want to talk about real quick just because some guys tested really, really well. We have some big names in that group. Nolan Smith ran a 439 in the 40th. Just kind of, again, contextualize what that means based on what you've seen on tape, the type of prospect that he is, because he seemed to do very well for himself during the testing stuff this week.

Oh, no, they started at the podium when he was talking. He was, during his interview, laughing, crying. There's everything. The full range of emotion. This guy is awesome. Texting back and forth with David Pollock over at ESPN, David, he's a big mentor for Nolan, and he's been working with him for a long time,

and he just raves about the person that he is and the way he carries himself. On the field, he's awesome. He came into this week as my number 19 overall player. So this isn't just a workout warrior, but he went out there. We haven't seen him since early November when he had the shoulder injury.

and so this was good to see him back out there, ran a 439 at 238 pounds, 152 10 yard. That might be the most impressive number right there. The 152 at 238 is really impressive. Now, he is a little smaller compared to your traditional pass rushers, but this guy is physical. One of the things that Pollock would say to me is how he will try to, to rush you down the middle. He'll try to rush you with power because he has that in his hands. He just needs to show more of a plan and really figure things out the sequencing and all that. But with the athleticism that he brings, I'll roll the dice on a guy like that in the top 20 all day.

And I think that's what he did at the combine just kind of confirms that. So Nolan Smith, if he's not off the board somewhere in the top 20 picks, something's definitely up. He had an outstanding workout. Some of the other guys that are going to be in that first round range, Lucas Fen, Ness, you thought was going to test very, very well. Do you think he hit the benchmarks that you expected from Iowa? I should be better about this. No, no, I think so.

I mean, he's, they call him Hercules, and I mean, he really impressed. I thought he might get in the 455 range. You got 4.58, close enough. Three cone was outstanding, 702. This has got, you know, 275 pounds. So this is a big boy. And, you know, zero career starts at I. Iowa. But you're catching this guy on the upswing. I mean, you are, this is, this is,

this is Leonardo DiCaprio coming out of Titanic, okay? He is, it's all up from here. Okay. So Lucas Van Nuss, good chance he ends up in the top 10, 910 broad, big number for him. Also with, we want to hit on the linebackers too. His teammate at Iowa, Jack Campbell had a really nice workout. He, it's not a great linebacker class this year. I like Drew Sanders from Arkansas, Trenton Simpson from Clemson, but Jack Campbell really made a case for himself as, okay, hey, I'm, I'm ready to go. You want to play tomorrow? Let's suit up. I mean, he is a plug-and-play linebacker for his size.

He's 249 pounds, ran, put a 674 into 3-cone, a tremendous number. I did not see a 6-7-4 watching him on film. I didn't think he was a bad athlete. I just didn't see 6-7-4. He's one of those guys. I definitely want to go back and say, Okay, if I'm missing something here, is this, one thing I didn't love about his tape is there were times where he would wait for the ball carry. I want to see, you know, be more of a thumper. Go get that guy.

But he's really good in zone coverage. You know, you throw on the Ohio State tape and watch him pick off C.J. Stroud. So Jack Campbell really had a nice workout and someone that I think, especially in a class like this where the linebackers aren't great. That's only going to push him up further and further. Maybe he's into the top 40 or 50 picks. Same broad jump as Nolan Smith, 37.5 inch vertical. Not bad. Those are fairly good numbers at 249 pounds.

Before we get to my favorite part of this show about what we ate this week, Will Anderson. Reviews what you expected. I think he's really the big name guy we have not touched on so far in this conversation. I think whatever you thought of Will Anderson, however you felt coming into the week, that's how you feel going out. You know, he's the weight was good to see. you know, that was kind of a big question, would it be closer to 245, would he be under 250? He came in at 253.

So that was a good number for him. You know, you look at 4-6 and maybe that doesn't jump off the page. But that's more along the lines of what, you know, most patch rushers are doing, even if it wasn't a freaky number. 161, 10-yard split is a fine number. the average for all the I do this every year just to put context on on these numbers I take the top 20 at every position it takes their combine results and you know find the average so that for the top 20 pass rushers in the NFL right now their average 10 yards split was 163 and will I understand at 161 so I mean that that's pretty good a pretty good number he didn't He didn't do anything else, but he, I thought he had a good workout.

And whatever you thought of him coming in, that's how you leave Indy feeling too. Speaking of leaving Indy and how you're feeling, what is the best thing you ate Indianapolis this week? I understand that it's just, it's low-hanging fruit. It's the obvious answer, but it's a St. Elmo's, man. First off, my favorite thing, not my favorite thing, but one of my favorite things about St. Elmo's is the bread. Okay? It's the best bread I've ever had at any restaurant. No one talks about the bread, but it's like a flat bread with some cheese on it.

I don't know. But you better believe, I told the way. What you love about St. Elmo's is the waiters. They're so compliment. They bring whatever you want. I mean, so, okay, I want two more baskets of this bread. Start with the lobster bisque, finish with the cowboy ribby, medium rare. And I just, I don't know how you can do it.

better meal than that. I really don't. I went to Harry Nizzi's not saying almost because I'm not fancy enough to get a reservation there. We went with a fairly like a slightly larger group. I had the cowboy rabbi. Same food. Same food. Same food. I had the cowboy rabbi. It was great. I had my own shrimp cocktail. My buddy was trying to order shrimp cocktails for the table. I was like absolutely not. I want my own with four pieces. It is an experience. I mean, I know everyone talks about it. I love horseradish just like as a flavor. I'm always a big fan of it. So the fact that it's just all that freshly grated horseradish on there.

It's hard not to choke when you eat it. I mean, when it hits the back of your throat, it is a sensation, but it is very, very good. So really solid man. The best is when you're there with someone who's never had it before. Yes. They could experience it for the first time. And so, yeah, that's always great. The amount of, when you look at it, the amount of cocktail sauce on each individual

piece of shrimp with all of the horse radish in there, it's wild. I mean, there is, it's unlike anything you've really ever eaten. So thoroughly enjoyed that. We went to Tinker Street on Monday. me and Nate and a couple other people. Just an eclectic meal, we ordered probably 20 different things. They changed the menu over pretty regularly, is my understanding. My favorite thing I ate, though, they had a Korean fried mushrooms, and it was on like a little scalyon pancake, but it wasn't like whole chunks of scalyan.

So it was more like consistency-wise, a regular pancake. It was a little sweet. And they had some pickle, diacon radish in there. It was delicious. Little go-chujong honey. That was fantastic. And then they had a sweet potato pasta. And the server, to his credit, was like, you should get the duck with the pasta.

So we did that. And we had like a cranberry sauce. So it was nice and tart, which is great with how fatty and heavy the duck is. A little peanut in there was really, really good. And then we went to livery on Tuesday night. The barbico with soapes there are awesome. It's like a Latin kind of small place place. There's a restaurant group in Indy that has probably a dozen different concepts.

It's like Cunningham Restaurant Group. And livery is like there's small plates, Latin place. And with seven of the beatwriters at the athletic, we had a fantastic meal. The barbacoa soapy there is awesome. It has like pickled peach and just the heat in the barbacoa is very, very good. My favorite thing I ate there, though, was wild. It was the end of the meal. By the time we got there, Joe Person, it was just horrified by the amount of food I had ordered.

And the skirt steak had like, it was a fried polenta square that it came on. And it was like a manchego polenta, but it had like a heat to it. And when I bit into it, I was like, that is so much more interesting than I thought it was going to be. So I'm just sitting here like so, so full. And I can't stop eating this fried polenta that came with the skirt steak. And I ate way too much of it. The empanadas there are great.

We went to Modita the next night, which is kind of like the Asian execution of what livery is. It's a lot of shared food. It's the same restaurant group. So a bunch of dumplings and noodles and everything else. That was another great, great meal. And then we did Harry and Izzy's on Thursday. So I ate pretty well. I'm going to put a lot of raw vegetables in my body here in the two weeks before my stupid bachelor party in New Orleans, which I didn't really think about when I was planning the way that I was going to eat at the Combine and the Super Bowl this year.

That's St. Patrick's Day weekend then, huh? Yeah, it is. Is that by design? It was the design was that we wanted to go the first weekend of the tournament because it's just something to do during the day. So there's that Harris down there with the sports book. So we're going to go watch them college basketball. It's going to be great because I've watched zero seconds of college basketball this year. So going and betting money on those games without an ounce of knowledge is exactly what the sportsbook wants.

So it should be good. It's a food-centric trip that happens to be there on New Orleans or happens to be there on St. Patrick's Day. So that's how we're framing it. You have a gift for finding some of the most interesting places no matter where you are. So I have no doubt that will continue there. We're going to have to eat together next year at the combine. Our schedules did not line up this year. We tried.

But next year, what's happening? I don't have the most diverse palate like you, but, you know, yeah, we will definitely have to do that next time. We're going to Kansas City, though, hopefully for the draft. So that's right in your wheelhouse. Absolutely. By the way, I've already made some reservations at barbecue places. The draft is in two and a half months. That does not surprise me at all.

I got you. Okay, all right. I'll be interested to see what you have to offer. Well, we're going to scale it back a little bit on eating this week, but the draft will be here before we know it. Dan Bruegler, thank you very much, my friend. This is the type of stuff that really only you can do. I really appreciate you helping me who knows nothing about this year's draft so far,

getting a little bit of context from everything that happened in Indy. By the way, everyone can catch you and Andy Staples weekly doing the Prospects to Pros to Pros podcast on the Athletic Football Show. you guys be back on Wednesday this week? I think so, yeah. We'll do a little recap of the Combine. You know, talk about something separately.

We talked about today. But, you know, we'll kind of preview. It says it's pro day season already. It's kind of crazy. I mean, it's, I know, I was talking to a scout leaving Indy and like,

oh, you know, where are you going? He's like, well, I got to be wherever, you know, on Tuesday. So it's like, it's already here. So a lot of stuff to dig into

as we really lean into draft season. We will be back every day this week. We only have one week, really, of free agency previews. So we're going to do a show starting tomorrow every single day this week about this class, some of the stuff we're watching, best fits, some players who might be available that aren't technically free agents, some mistakes we want to see, teams avoid. So there's going to be a lot of free agency content coming to you guys this week, along with the return of the football GM.

So we got another seven, eight podcast this week. It's March. But that's what we got coming your guys as way. So be on the lookout for all of that. If you have not, please rate and review the podcast. If you want to go to Apple Podcasts, let us know why you like the show. It does help us. I would consider it a personal favor, and I would really appreciate it.

Please subscribe to The Athletic. Theathletic.com slash football show. It's where you can read all of Dane's truly indispensable work this time of year as we ramp up the draft season. He has another mock draft coming out later this week. So you might as well subscribe now and be ready to get that. For now, though, that is all we have. I have. Really appreciate you guys listening.

Excited to get into free agency time. Talk to you guys soon. This was the Athletic Football Show.