The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - NFL Draft final big questions with Lindsay Jones

Episode Date: April 28, 2021

What will the Falcons do at pick 4? What will the "non-pandemic" NFL Draft look like? Which teams trade into the top 10? Robert Mays and Lindsay Jones bring some final big questions to the air in their final podcast before the 2021 NFL Draft. Make sure you tune in to their round 1 coverage Thursday night at 9:30PM EST. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays. Fun show for you guys today. We're going to be chatting with Lindsay just about the biggest questions we have heading into the draft. It's the day before the draft, which is crazy. It seems like this has been a six-month-long process, but we're finally here. So we're going to tee that up a little bit.

Just a reminder, live draft show 930 Eastern. Me and Nate Tice, Lindsay and Dane Brugler are going to be dropping in and out. We're going to be coming to. you guys at 9.30 Eastern after the 15th pick. We'll talk about what happened. We'll react to some of the picks as they go live. It's going to be on our YouTube page, Twitter. Check the athletic app. I think you guys will be getting a push notification. So just be on the lookout for that over the next 24 hours. I'm sure I will tweet about it no less than 50 times. So it's going to be hard for you guys to ignore it. For now, though, let's chat with Lindsay Jones. Lindsay, how you doing?

I'm great. I can't believe we're finally here. This feels like it's been the longest run up to the draft. ever. It really does. I think it's because we didn't have a combine. So there were fewer things to break it up maybe. I don't know why. And the draft is late. Usually it would have been about a week ago.

That might be it too. So we've done so much talk about the prospects and the positions and the conversation we have with Lance and Dane yesterday just about the lessons we can learn from watching this entire class. I wanted to go team specific. Let's talk about the biggest questions we have as they relate to the teams making the picks tomorrow. And I wanted to start with one that we've talked about so many times, but I still think

it's worth discussing one more time. My biggest question is what the Niners are going to do. And I don't know if there's any new ground we can tread here, but I read Seth Wickers piece about it this weekend on ESPN.com. And I've had similar thoughts just about how I remember in 2016 when I watched the 2016 Falcons. And I wrote a story for the ringer that during those playoffs. and I said with a lot of confidence

that I thought that Kyle Shanahan was the next great coach in the NFL. I think that what he does offensively and the way he sees the game and the way he puts his guys in positions to succeed, he's a rare talent. But what happens with this pick and the decision they make?

Not only will tell us a lot about Kyle Shanahan, but it will dictate his future as an NFL head coach. I mean, this is one of those moves that is going to define both things. Niners and his legacy, potentially, in this league. This is a guy who went to the Super Bowl already, lost, but has done a fantastic job offensively coaching that team since he got there. But this could change things.

If this does not work out well with what they gave up, this is a franchise and legacy altering type selection for Kyle Shanahan. And as somebody who's watched his career very closely for a long time, it's just hard for me not to fixate on that idea. And it's so much, I mean, I think you're right on every single one of those points. And there's just, what's making this is so dramatic because there's no drama with picks one and two. And what happens there at three is going to dictate what happens for so many other teams. It's not just us in the media that are sitting here wondering what's going to happen at three.

It's people with 31 other teams are wondering. And I think there's a lot of people who have some inclinations and think that, you know, they have an idea of what Kyle Shanahan is going to do. And it's a lot of the same stuff that we've been doing where we're reading, into his scheme and reading into his facial expressions at these pro days and going back into old press conferences to try to figure out stuff. Also, I mean, I found myself going like Seth Wickersham did, going back into like, what did Mike Shanahan do? And how was Mike Shanahan processed all of this? Back to when he had Elway and then when he had Jake Plummer and Jake Cutler and all of these thoughts of like, okay, how do we figure out what this is going to be? I think this has come back to

where we were exactly when the trade went down in the first place, where all of the Mac Jones stuff blew up right away. And now we've circled back where it's like, okay, Justin Fields, we're going to Ohio State, Justin Fields, and now Trey Lance. And maybe it's going to be Tray Lance. I think we're going to be right back to Mac Jones on Thursday night. And it's going to be wild because it's a big risk. It's a big risk if it's Tray Lance. It's a risk if it's Justin Fields. But I think it's just so unconventional based on where modern football is going right now to make Mac Jones the guy you trade up to number three to get. But I think Kyle Chanahan is unconventional

and is willing to put his ass and his career on the line for this. And that's what makes this really, really fun. And I kind of wish we were going live at not 930 Eastern. We were going live right as the third pick was happening. That is the one moment where I'll be sad that I cannot react as it happens. But I still think that this is the right choice based on how people are going to want to watch this. Yes. So I was thinking about that yesterday. I was like, man, my reaction to that, I'm almost glad it's not going to be on camera or on a microphone because I will not be able to contain myself depending on what happens. When they take Kyle Pitts at three.

It's one of those things. It requires so much, I guess pride might be one of the things. I think hubris might be another word you could throw out to believe that Mack Jones is worth trading all those picks for and that you can make Mack Jones the guy based on his physical. profile compared to some of these other guys. But based on what we know about Kyle Shannan, we shouldn't rule that out. I think he may believe that he can do this. And again, it could alter the next 10 years of how his career as an NFL head coach goes. All right, what is yours? What is the biggest question that you find yourself asking here as we're a day away from the draft? Yeah, I mean, I think there's just still a lot of kind of big push. We know that the quarterbacks are going to be kind of the story of this draft. I'm really curious what's going to happen to these

defensive players. And it's so wild, I've been doing a lot of history research over the last couple days. I had a story that published earlier this week about the 2001 draft, and that was a really interesting draft because of the quarterbacks who were in it. It was Michael Vick and Drew Brees, but it was a really defensive line heavy draft. There were just, you know, tons of defensive linemen that came in the first time, or in the top 10 picks, the 2011 draft 10 years ago, maybe the best defensive draft we've seen, I mean, in modern, certainly in modern history. And then this year, we might not get a single defensive player in the top 10. So I'm really curious to see kind of how this top 10 is going to fall and how offensive

heavy that's going to be. So who's that first defensive player going to be? How far is he going to fall? And is there a team that's sitting there in the, you know, 10, 11, 12, 13 kind of range that might be able to have their pick of all of the defensive players on the board. So I just think it's going to, it's just such an interesting class. And it's just so quarterback heavy at the top that it's going to make the middle of that first round, I think, a lot more interesting than sometimes it is, just because there's going to be such a wide range of players, wide range of positions available. So, you know, I think there's a couple, you know, those corners, whether it's Certain, you know, Patrick Certain out there, kind of Caleb Farley in that middle of the first round.

Is it Micah Parsons? You know, here in Denver, Micah Parsons has been getting mocked to the Broncos a lot if they decide not to go quarterback at nine or if there's not a quarterback available for them at nine. So it would be so depressing to need a quarterback and have a quarterback be on the board and to pick an off ball linebacker with a ninth overall pick. I would lose my mind if I were a Broncos fan. Yep, it'll be fun. So another time it would be fun to be live. Brunco's Twitter will be. And then they sign Teddy Bridgewater, like trade for Teddy Bridgewater. It's kind of depressing. The most anticlimactic thing since the Oscars two nights ago. Yeah. So I, you know, I just think it's kind of is such a weird class. And it's a interesting class. So, you know, that's not as much team specific, but when we think about like unanswered questions and kind of the things we're going to be watching for trend-wise, I'm just really curious how this whole board is going to fall and what the, you know, the top heavy nature of this quarterback class is going to do to the rest of the guys in this group. It's a great question. And I'm wondering, one year doesn't make a trend, obviously,

not even two years makes a trend. But our team's going to be valuing defense a little bit less as we come into a world where we understand offense is more valuable, it's more stable. If you build through offense, it's a better way to sustain success. We've seen that teams that use defense or money and free agency on defense tend to have more success than spending it on offense. Is that going to influence things? Is the way the college game looks going to make edge rushers marginalized, less important, harder to evaluate? Again, these are questions we won't know the answers to for a couple years. But I think based on the way this draft might fall,

My antenna are up about a lot of those different things. So my next one here, similar to number, the first one I asked, will the Falcons pick a quarterback? Again, I know we've talked about this, but I just wanted to mention it with some news earlier this week that they're hearing trade offers about Julio Jones, which I think speaks to the existential question that is at the heart of this for Terry Fondow and Arthur Smith. It's what do you do? Where do you go? Do you try to bridge the gap? Do you try to start over? If you look at their salary cap situation for the Falcons, it's brutal.

And it's not just the total number or Matt Ryan's contract in 2022. If you look at some of these restructures that they've had, they have three guys in 2022 set to make more than $23.7 million. Two of them are Grady Jarrett and Jake Matthews. Julio is at 19 million. Dion Jones is at 18.7 million. That's only five guys at the top of their roster. and they're up against it. They need to do something.

And I just think that there's a temptation with how middle of the road that team was last year, how much talent they have, and how quickly they could get good to say, what can we do to maximize this in the short term? But are you lying to yourself if you're trying to figure out those janga pieces and not pick a quarterback? It's just such an interesting consideration. The direction that they end up going, there's a lie you can read into it. I think it dictates what they want to do here,

over the next couple of years. And I'm very interested to see which one they pick. Yeah, absolutely. And the, you know, the Julio Jones stuff, it can't happen until June 1st because of salary cap machinations that are way too boring and intricate for us to get into in a podcast format. But at least they are like kind of exploring it because I think that's a sign that you're thinking a little bit longer term. What are our assets?

How can we get a little bit better? Do you only trade Julio if you've added an elite skill position player there? I go the opposite way. I think you trade them if you pick a quarterback. If you pick the quarterback because it's a longer term. Exactly. That is what jumps out to me. I think if you're trading Julio Jones, then you have another hole at wide receiver.

Is it worth trying to see what Matt Ryan can do? If you're trying to fill spots on the offense, should you just start over? That's what I'm getting into here. It just feels like one influences the other in these fascinating little ways. And just like with the Niners, you know, what happens there at four is going to change so much for the rest of, you know, certainly for the rest of the top 10, but for, you know, for a lot of the draft as well. And, you know, there's so many people around the league that are waiting to see what's going to happen at those number three and number four spots. And that's going to determine who's going to move up, who's going to move back. I mean, you know, we've mentioned the Broncos already. And, you know, George Payton, they're sitting there at nine and getting all these questions about like, will you move up? Are you going to move up to a quarterback? And I get it where he's like, we kind of got to see where. the board falls because you don't you can't move up now because you don't know what the nineers and the falcons are going to do and you know if all of a sudden your quarterback is there then yeah absolutely go up but if those guys are you know if those two teams make wild moves then you know

then maybe you don't but yeah the falcons are in a really really really interesting spot for now for the long term what do you think what's your gut tell you that they're going to do my gut tells me they're not going to pick a quarterback. Just because it's such a dramatic choice to make after only a couple months on the job when there's a guy in the building that's been there for more than a decade and has been a really good quarterback. That's been an MVP quarterback. I just think doing that in such short order is a lot to ask of a new staff. And maybe they're taking a long view. Maybe they're not afraid of having to juggle those things. But I just think it's safer to take a non-quarterback and not turn over to. the hourglass immediately upon moving into those spots as a head coach and a general manager. I think that's fair, too. It's going to be so interesting, especially if Justin Fields is there because, you know, with all of the hometown connections and the local, the local stuff, which I think that gets a little overblown.

You know, you want to draft the kid from Georgia. It's still fun. Even if it doesn't really matter, it's still fun. I mean, it's interesting. I, trust me, as a Bears fan, if Justin Fields doesn't go with the fourth overall pick and now we're getting to seven and I don't think that the lions are traded with the bears at seven. But if he's getting the back half of the top 10, do the Patriots think that they need to make a move? That was a report that was made earlier today.

I think by Mike Giardy. There's a lot of different stuff to consider here. And I will all be taking a look at it. All right. So my next question here, and this kind of piggybacks a little bit on the Falcons thing because where Justin Fields is going to be available, which quarterback is going to be available. Who is the mystery team that makes the move a quarterback? whether it's for Justin Fields or for somebody else. When we look back to the 2017 draft, for example,

did we think the chiefs were going to be one of those teams that would trade up for Patrick Mahomes? Probably not. There is always teams lurking, depending on which quarterbacks are available, how they fall, and I think the list is probably longer than most people would probably mention at first glance.

Is it going to be Carolina or Denver taking one in the top 10? Do the Patriots trade up for a guy like Justin Fields, which I believe was reported by NFL Network earlier this week that they were interested in him. Do the Bears have a guy they love fall into the back half of the top 10? They think we can go from 20 to 10 in a way we couldn't go from 20 to 4. Let's try to do this. Do the Lions take someone?

Are they ready to take someone if they really like it thinking we're at 7? We can do this now. We are not committed to Jared Gough. Is Washington quietly a team that if the right guy similar to Chicago falls into the back half of the top 10 and it's not as rich could they make a move? Or is a team like New Orleans that is always liable to do something wild in the mix for one of these guys if the draft falls a certain way? That's to me one of the biggest questions after the top five is who is the team going to be that really gets aggressive and tries to come up for the last one of these guys? And that's what all of that uncertainty at the top of the draft.

That's what makes this part so interesting because there are probably teams out there that have Trey Lance higher on their board than they have. of Mac Jones. There's probably a lot of teams or Justin Fields. And then it becomes worth it to make that move. And that's where if you're sitting there at, if you're Miami, if you are Carolina, you're in a really good spot where you're going to have a ton of options. And, you know, and I totally think you're right that something's going to happen. It has to happen.

It feels like it, right? I'm going to be so disappointed if we just get, if we don't get like a big quarterback trade in the top 10. But, God, the Patriots are super intriguing there because they have to make some sort of move at quarterback. You know, we've seen from this offseason that Bill Belichick fully understands everything that went wrong in 2020 about their roster. And, you know, seemed okay with bringing Cam Newton back. But I can't see him sitting pat for a whole other year of Cam Newton and Brian Hoyer as your, you know, as your quarterback situation and then punting this to next year. So, God, I'm so interesting.

I mean, I don't think they necessarily would even qualify as a mystery team because we've all talked about them a lot. But they're one that I'm really, really, really watching. And I'm really disappointed that we're not going to get to see the dog during all of this trade. That's the number one thing. If there are no dogs is a real disappointment. I'm just thinking about watching on draft night. And when you're watching the telecast and you see the color of the team in the on the clock box. And it's seven.

When we have that blue Honolulu blue from the Lions, I'm just ready for it to change. I'm just ready for the moment that it changes and whatever team is going to come up into that spot ahead of Carolina and Denver because they want that fourth quarterback. I can just see that happening and I'm really wondering what that color is going to be. Is it Patriots blue?

Is it some kind of red? What is that spot? Those moments are always some of the best ones on draft night. I remember 2017, vividly being, oh, shit. When the Bears slid into that slot when the Niners were picking, what is that oh shit moment going to look like?

And I think that the seventh pick is just prime real estate for it to happen. Yeah, that 17 class was really, that was really fun. I was in Cleveland. Yeah, for you. That year. I'm fair. Fair enough. Because I was like at the Cleveland Brown's like fan party for the, for the draft that year in the

Muni lot, which was wild. It was like this massive tailgating scene. I think I was actually in like a tailgating bus like in the muny lot with the Mahomes trade. It was really fun. Like the people there, like, I mean, it's their Super Bowl in Cleveland until last year. And that was kind of what we pitched and how I wrote. I mean, I was at USA Today at the time. And it was a really, really fun story because they had the number one pick and they had a second first round pick that year.

And just I remember watching all of those, these kind of machinations and all of a sudden the Mahomes trade and going like, wow, like, okay. Here we go. And yeah, I want to see. So who would be like the wildest off the wall? mystery team, you know, because some of these other teams we've, you know, they've been in the mix and it would make sense because they don't have a lot, you know, a long-term quarterback answer. Is there one team that you would be like the real, oh shit moment if they came up to seven?

I think that New Orleans would probably be the one. And the other one that I would throw out there is Pittsburgh. Yeah. That would be the other one that they absolutely could justify doing it if they love one of these guys. But I think New Orleans and Pittsburgh would be the most shocking just because they'd have to come the furthest. Another team that I don't think it'll happen, but who knows, the Raiders are the other one. Do the Raiders love one of these guys? Do they feel like they've stagnated a little bit? I mean, again, I think those are remote possibilities, but those are the ones. And then the last one

would be Tampa Bay. You know, if something crazy happens where one of these guys falls really far, I don't think that will end up happening. But if it were to happen and they loved one and thought, this is a rare chance we have to do this even if we have Tom Brady, I think, I think that would be the other one. So, but that would almost be like a, that almost be like a Packers 2005. That's exactly right. That's exactly the comparison I had in mind. But again, I just think that the list is longer than we probably think at first blush.

And that's why I'm excited to see what happens. All right. What's your next one? All right. So I'm going to continue with my trend with some of these kind of like big picture kind of questions. And I think it's going to be really interesting to watch later this week that this is kind of the NFL's like entree back into the world. Yeah. I want to say post-COVID, but we are not post-COVID. But, you know, they kind of tiptoed back in with the Super Bowl where they had these,

you know, outdoor fan events, but with pretty limited attendance, reservations, you know, you to take reservations and masks and stuff, they are, you know, now they're kind of combining both of these things in Cleveland. They're expecting 50,000 people. to be on site over the course of the weekend. They have areas that are for fully vaccinated fans in like a fan zone. But they're just expecting and encouraging a massive crowd. Roger Goodell is going to be there announcing the picks on stage. Draft picks are good.

There's 13 guys that are going to be there to, you know, walk across the stage and get their hug. And it's just going to be really crazy to watch, considering exactly where we were a year ago, where, you know, we were in all of these GMs and head coaches homes last year. year. You know, Nike Belichick was the star of last year's draft. And I think last year's draft was just like they captured lightning in a bottle where nobody knew how it was going to go, but it was kind of awesome. Like I think there was a lot of stuff that we really, really liked about it. So as kind of somebody who covers the league at large, I'm really interested in the media landscape, all of those sorts of things. I'm really, really curious how they pull this off and how they try to recapture some of that magic from, like, last year, while also getting back to some of the normalcy where they make it an in-person fan event. I want to see the hugs.

I want to time the hugs. I'm very curious how, you know, just how safe it's going to be in Cleveland. So, yeah, I mean, this is kind of one of just one of those big picture things that I think about and that I'm going to, you know, that I'm going to watch for. But when we're talking, too, about just like the mechanations of the draft, too, the league learned a lot last year. There were a lot of really archaic, just things about the way that the draft. wrath operated where they had to like, you know, call in the pick to a landline. And there was a guy

sitting at a table. He'd write the name down on a card and get up and walk the card over to a guy from the NFL who would manually put it into his computer and then take the card up. And now it's like it's all done on Microsoft teams. Like you hit a button. And everybody was freaking out about it last year. And now we've been on Zoom for a year. You know, we do this all the time. So I think it's gotten the process has gotten better. But I just want to see kind of how it's all going. going to go. And if they're able to kind of make it as fun and personal as it was last year. It feels like Cliff Kingsbury is going to be really disappointed that he has ceded the best draft surroundings to McVehan and the Rams. That's a huge loss in the NFC West to lose that standing

of having the coolest setup for the draft. The Rams definitively have won. Oh, for sure. And look, the Rams don't have a first round pick. So they're like, screw it. Let's go to Malibu. They have figured this out, by the way. We're not going to stay in a holiday. in and Mobile for a week. We're drafting from a beach house. We don't even have to worry about the first round. They have the chillest approach to this entire process. I envy the way that they've taken this.

But you bring up a good point about the Lake Cliff Kingsbury thing because that was such a fun viral moment. We needed that, by the way. I needed that last year at that point. I hope we can recreate some of that fun, you know, that fun stuff. So you can be, you know, the rest of the league is going to be sitting there and, you know, you're going to be Brett Beach and you're like, we're in a conference. room in a parking lot of Arrowhead Stadium, basically in the Chiefs facility. And you're sitting

there watching like Sean McVay sitting poolside with these like epic views in Malibu and thinking like, what do we do it? What are we doing here? We don't have a first round pick. Like what are what are doing? Like let's get up and go. This is the year where teams are going to reconsider how they do a lot of this stuff and the Rams are just two steps ahead. All right. My next one here, what do the Ravens do? We have not talked about teams outside of the top 10 a lot on the show because it's been a lot of focus on the class itself and then we did the top 10 mock last year. The Ravens obviously just traded Orlando Brown to the Chiefs this weekend. They got, depending on which chart you use, I think the Jimmy Johnson chart said it was the 45th overall pick in terms of value. The Chase Stewart chart and a couple other more modern charts have it as more the 23rd pick in the first round, which is a pretty good haul.

So the Ravens get an extra first round pick, essentially, for Orlando Brown. And I'm just so fascinated by what the Ravens do with this draft, because I think it's an interesting pivot point. If we look back and think about how we talked about the Ravens this time last year, it was how do they get over the top? What are these last couple moves that the Ravens need to make? They were so close. They were the team of the 2019 season in a lot of ways. What are the little finishing touches they have to put on this roster? Now I think they're in a much different position.

Now I think they're trying to sort through these growing pains and this little plateau of what they are as a team. Have they taken this version of the offense as far as it can go with Greg Roman? Are they going to need to make some shifts? Do they need to go get more receiving talent? I'm just so interested in how they see their roster right now and what they need to do to finally get over the hump. Now that they have those two first round picks, they've just become, they've come way more into the forefront of this draft for me than they were a few days ago. Go get Julio Jones.

That would be fun. We've talked about that a million times. I've been banging this drum since October. Come on. Let's do it. Let's make this happen. But there's such a smart drafting team that it has infuriated us to see the same holes persisting on their roster for multiple years now. But it is hard to like argue with the track.

record that Eric Dacostas put together following directly from Ozzie Newsom. I mean, to have that sort of seamless kind of transition from one GM to the next. I mean, that's so rare. So I hate to like poke too many holes. But it is a kind of a really pivotal draft for them because that trade last week was wild in that they sent what if their best young players to probably their biggest rival in the conference. I mean, the message that that sends, then what are the dominoes? how are they going to fill this? It's all really, really, really interesting to me. What'd you think of a trade?

I mean, I liked it. I mean, I really liked it for the chiefs and for Orlando Brown. I mean, the chiefs are getting themselves into a situation once again where they're going to have to spend a lot of money and they're kind of kicking this down the road a little bit where probably not going to resign Orlando Brown to a big deal this year, you know, kick it to next year where when the cap goes up. But, you know, back when they released Mitchell Schwartz and Eric Fisher right before free agency backward and, you know, early to mid-March, it was like, you know,

like, okay, now what? Like, what is your plan? And now we've seen what Brett Beech's plan was. It was really kind of interesting that they did it right before the draft where, you know, sitting there at 31 with the depth of this offensive tackle class, you know, you probably could have gotten one. Like I don't know how many words Nate Taylor has written over the past month getting into all of the tackle options.

So poor Nate, all of those words, you know, now are moot. But they don't have a narrow window. I think with Patrick Mahomes, your window is going to be kind of wide open, but you can't waste another year of it bringing some young tackles up to speed. But now you're going to have five new starters, potentially. I mean, some of these guys are coming back. We'll get, you know, DeVorny Tardeev, whose name I always mispronounced. I'm so sorry about that. DeVarne.

Yes, I am not French Canadian. So he's not technically a new starter, but he wasn't playing in 2020. But, you know, you're going to have five new guys. they've clearly gone and addressed what was the biggest issue last year. I don't know if having all of like this current line together would have won the Super Bowl last year. I don't know if the Dominoes would have fallen that way. I liked it though, but it was just really curious from the Raven side of saying, okay, we're moving this guy.

He's not happy. We're not going to be able to sign him long term. And like let's send him to Kansas City. You know, I love it. No fear. I think from both sides, it makes sense. For the Chiefs, I can absolutely understand where you're saying, we can win right now.

We can win right now. We can have a guy that we know we can plug in. There's some projection. The offenses are very different. You probably have to read something into that. But there's less projection for a guy like Orlando Brown than there would be for a rookie or taken 31st. So you're better right now.

You're going to have to pay up, but I think they're okay with this. They're going to make these splashy, splashy moves every single year, say we have the best player in the world. He covers up a lot of flaws. We can make the Frank Clark trade, have it not work out in some ways, and it just doesn't matter. We're going to be really good because we have this guy. Let's keep the window pride open as long as possible. I understand that type of thinking.

It's difficult, and it's going to put them in a tough financial spot year after year. But I understand why they're thinking this way, even if what they did by trading a first-round pick and then having to extend a guy and giving out the richest interior offensive line contract in the history of the NFL might be an over. overreaction to what happened at the end of last season, but I understand how they got there. For the Ravens, you're trading what amounts to a first round pick for a guy that was your right tackle. You've already paid your left tackle. So it was going to be hard to pay both of them market money. And he was unhappy.

And you had a replacement that you signed off the street in Al-Alandre Villanueva that you already knew was going to come in. What is the downgrade from Brown to Villanueva? It's considerable. But I don't think it's a first. round pick considerable. So value-wise, I think the Ravens did very well for themselves. I understand why both sides would make the deal.

Yeah, for sure. But I'm interested in now the chiefs just get to hang out and watch the draft. And unfortunately, they're not going to be at a beach house to do it. The parking lot in the Arrowhead Stadium. He's driving to the Ozarks. I don't know. Where do you go if you're in Missouri? Those arcs are kind of nice.

They're not nice. There's not a lot of stuff in Missouri. I've lived in Missouri for four years. I enjoy Columbia. That's what I'll say. All right. What is your last one here? What is your last big question that you want to ask about the draft? Well, so my last like kind of big picture question, and I think there's kind of a lot of things that kind of go into this. But this whole process has been so unusual. This has been the most disrupted pre-draft process that we've ever seen. Last year, we kind of made a lot out of like, oh, it's the pandemic draft. This year has actually been way more

impacted by the pandemic than last year was last year there was a combine there were some pro days that got out of the way they had an entire 2019s worth of college football tape to watch this year we have so many unknowns about so many of these prospects so the things that i'm watching and to see how this all plays out one it's all the guys with medical questions um this process has been so disrupted and teams have far less medical information about these guys than they've ever had before 150 guys were able to go to Indy in middle of April to get their checks. These were guys who had like lengthy injury histories when they were college were coming off of surgeries. So they had a list. So there's a small group of guys who have gone through kind of the combined medical process.

But for a lot of these other guys, their doctors haven't gotten to see them. There hasn't been kind of the centralized MRI database. And teams have a lot of questions about this. So a guy who has injury history, who might be a mid-round pick, what happens? happens to those guys? Our team's going to be more conservative because they just don't have the information. And, you know, can you not take a guy in the second half of the first round who you have some sort of medical question about him that you haven't had answered? Because that's a major risk. You know, you're not going to get a do-over because you didn't have pre-you-you- didn't have the medical information before the draft. So I think that is really interesting. And then

what about all the guys who opted out? How are they going to be impacted now that we're actually here? It's been really, really tough. for teams to evaluate these guys who didn't play in 2020. From just like a pure football standpoint, you might only have one real year of tape on them. And it was when they were, you know, guys' bodies changed so much in college when they're going from 19 to 20 to 21 years old. And then there's, you know, a lot of just like the football stuff that can sometimes, I think,

get a little bit overblown where it's, you know, does he love football? And why did he opt out and get into his mentality about it? which I don't like that side of it quite as much, but I'm just so curious to see. Even if it's, we don't agree with it. It's going to be a part of this no matter what. Yeah. I mean, and I think a lot of it was like, okay, well, why did you opt out? Like, why did you, you know, and it was because there was so much uncertainty.

And I don't blame a lot of those guys for doing that. I mean, I wrote a story a couple weeks ago about Sean Wade, the cornerback from Ohio State, who a lot of scouts who think he should have just come out and been part of the 2020 draft. And he could have been like a late first, maybe a second round. pick if he just would have come out after 2019. He decided to come back and instead had a really, really rough year. And now is like mid-round pick, maybe. So it's just this, it's the other side where it's like he came back and maybe hurt himself

if he would have cut, but if he would have opted out, he would have been probably getting asked all these questions about like, well, why didn't you want to play? And do you not love football? And it's just this like weird underlying stuff that goes into this whole draft process. So those are the things that I'm just kind of really curious how. this is all going to impact what we actually see. And then I think the one other, like, interesting aspect is this draft class is super small. So, like, what's this undrafted process going to look like on Saturday?

How the rosters are going to be built. There is a little more certainty about that this year than there was last year because we know there are going to be rookie mini camps. There will be tryouts allowed, a lot fewer players. But last year, it was like, if you didn't get drafted, like you were SOL. And at least this year, there'll be some options for the guys that don't actually get taken. by the end of Saturday afternoon. Yeah.

And I wonder if there's going to be some teams that I feel like we need players now. Are there going to be trade partners if teams want to consistently move back because they don't feel less confident about this class? Are there other teams that think there's value to be had because of that? Is there going to be a ton of movement this year in ways there wouldn't be in previous years? I think those are all really relevant and really important questions that we won't know the answer to until tomorrow night. My last one here, just kind of the teams on the back end.

And again, we talked about the Raven specifically, but I'm really interested in what's going to happen with the Colts in Washington. Those teams in like the 19 to 21 range, not the Bears, but the Colts I think in Washington I would put in the category of strong rosters that have a couple holes. So if Washington can find a left tackle, if the Colts can find a tackle on a pass rusher, if they thread that needle in the first two rounds, what happens with that team, those teams this year? How good can they be in the short term? even if I think probably both of them, if you were to ask them honestly, think that next year is the chance that they have to win a Super Bowl. And then the other two teams, not the case at all. Their time is right now, and that's Buffalo and Green Bay.

We had talked so much last year about what the Packers did in the draft and how confusing their strategy was when they were in the NFC championship game. They clearly are motivated to stay on their own timeline, but what do they do this year? Do they change it up a little bit? Do they go for a splashier type of moving the first round? Do they go get a receiver? I'm just not even from a judgmental perspective. I'm just curious how they see where they are in the process.

And I feel the same way about the bills. What is that one or two pieces? The bills are now fully formed. This is the bills. They had a lot of tinkering over the last couple of years as they were figuring out this roster. And now you've signed a lot of guys to even short-term extensions that were one-year free agents. Josh Allen's deal is now on the horizon. Matt Milano got his extension.

There aren't that many cheap foundational pieces around there anymore. So how do they tinker with this roster? How do they try to get this version of the roster over the top? And that starts with this class and this draft because they couldn't do much in free agency. So those teams from that 20 to 32 range, how they decide this is what we need to take the final steps? I'm always interested in that. And we just haven't discussed that very much. I bet Packers fans are probably the second most angst-ridden fan base about the draft.

Yeah. Just given like the trauma. After the Niners? The Niners are first. The poor Niners fans right now. And I, they are all over the place. I've done multiple Niners podcast recently. And it is.

I had, I had patio beers with a buddy who's a Niners fan yesterday. It was all he wanted to talk about. So, yeah, I mean, they are all over the place. And send Venmo your Niners fan. friends money for liquor or gummies or whatever they're uh whatever it is they want uh the nineers fan in your life do that ahead of the draft but i think packers fans are just like i wonder i just really wonder how they're feeling because yeah i mean last year was this like oh my god like what are we doing kind of moment that you know it kind of just showed that like

anything could be on the table they really are reluctant to take a wide receiver maybe one of those guys will be there. You know, at 29, I mean, that's tough. I mean, it's just so hard to predict. I mean, you could run a million mock draft simulators. And I know Matt Schneidman, our Packers Beat Rider, has run probably a million mock draft simulations. And the results are all over the board of like who is actually going to be available

there. Is it a receiver? Is it a cornerback? Is it an offensive tackle? You know, I think they have a ton of options. Just as long as they don't take like Kellyn Mond or something. I feel like a quarterback is probably off the board. board here.

Probably off the table, but I don't know. It should have been last year too. With these picks, and I think the Packers last year were a bit of an exception just because I did make fun of some of the stuff that they did. But for the most part, when these picks happen, I more use it as a window to understand how the teams view themselves rather than a chance to jump down a team's throat or make any immediate judgments about what they did. Because that to me is the more interesting part of this is what can we learn about the

teams based on the decisions that they make? And that's why I'm really interested in how the Packers and the Bills view themselves. Not can we destroy them if they don't take a receiver? But if they don't take one, why? Like what kind of insight can we get into the plan that they have? And I thought even last year's draft that the Packers had was interesting in that regard. And the other team I'd mentioned, as I sit here and look at this, is Cleveland at 26. We talked about them as maybe a team that's one draft away.

But what do they do? Do they add one more defensive piece? Do they need a little bit more depth in the secondary or upfront? They're a team that I've just found really, really compelling over this entire offseason, and that's not going to change right now. And then I'm just looking at the draft order now and getting very excited about things. At 23 and 25, the Jets and the Jags have those second picks. We talked about it a little bit in regard to the Jags pick when we're doing the mock draft. How do you surround your guy?

What is the plan now that we're really in the meat of the Joe Douglas era with the Jets after last year's short-lived time before the draft? What did the Jags say? This is our plan. and this is how we want to surround our guy. This is the stamp we're putting on the Urban Meyer era. Those picks, I think, are going to tell us a lot about just those kinds of issues. So we're here. I could say something I'm interested in about every single team.

So I'm not going to go down that road. It's funny. I went back and I looked through basically all of these teams that we just talked about that are drafting the second half of the first round, maybe those last 10 picks. And almost all of our beatwriters mocked them taking a cornerback. So that's interesting. They're not all going to be there. They can't all of them want to one and one.

Back after the first round, cornerback depth. Back after the first round, cornerback depth. I totally get it. God, I'm just looking at all these teams. Arizona absolutely could see them being the team that trades up to seven to try to go get one of the receivers. Very on brand for them. They've been aggressive all offseason. What do the chargers do?

Do they move up to get one of the tackles? Do they think that they have to? They get Pene Soule and pair him with Justin Herbert. If they get Pene Soule, how good can that offense be right away? These are the questions. We could go down this road for an hour. We're not going to. That's all we got.

Lindsay, thank you very much for doing this. Thank you very much for sticking with us through what seemed like an interminable amount of draft coverage. You'll be with us tomorrow night. We'll be popping in and out. You'll obviously talk about what the Broncos do, but a ton of different things. Excited to do that. Everyone else, please come by. All right.

9.30 p.m. Eastern. It's going to be on Twitter. It's going to be on YouTube. Check the athletic app. I'll be tweeting about it. me and Nate are going to come to you guys the entire back half of the first round. Lindsay and Dane Bruegler are going to be popping in and out, depending on some of the picks, some of the things that happen.

Please come join us. It's going to be a great time. Nate and I will be in person in Chicago doing this. The same way, the draft is the NFL's foray back into the world. This is our foray back into in-person conversations and coverage, which I'm very excited about. Please rate and review the podcast on your podcast platform of choice. I sincerely appreciate that. Also, please subscribe to the athletic.

Dane Bruggo's draft guide, you're not going to be able to make it through the whole thing before the draft tomorrow night, but it is still an invaluable resource. You get that with your subscription. There's a ton of other content that we've been putting out in regard to the draft over the last few weeks. Please go check it out. I promise you it is worth the price. We'll be back tomorrow with the live show. Be on the lookout for that. Until then, appreciate you guys listening.

We'll talk to you later. This was the Athletic Football Show. Thank you.