The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - NFL Free Agency, Day 4 recap: Orlando Brown, Miles Sanders, Jamaal Williams and more

Episode Date: March 16, 2023

We're on day four of free agency and still going strong. Robert Mays and Nate Tice recap the latest, including Orlando Brown to the Bengals, Miles Sanders to the Panthers, Jamaal Williams to the Saints, and Fletcher Cox sticking with the Eagles.Follow Robert on Twitter: @robertmaysFollow Nate on Twitter: @Nate_TiceSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTubeToday's show is brought to you by...BetterHelp: Visit betterhelp.com/Mays today to get 10% off your first monthAtlassian: For projects impossible alone, visit www.atlassian.comMorgan & Morgan: For more information on Morgan & Morgan services, go to forthepeople.com/Mays or dial 1(800) POUND-LAW from your cell phone2:30 Bengals sign Orlando Brown11:30 Browns sign Juan Thornhill15:00 The Steelers have been busy21:06 Panthers sign Miles Sanders25:50 Jamaal Williams to Saints; Alexander Mattison sticks with Vikings28:12 Fletcher Cox, Dairus Slay stay in Philadelphia30:24 The intriguing New Orleans Saints33:04 WR moves: Parris Campbell signs with Giants, D.J. Chark visiting Carolina, updated numbers for Juju and Patriots39:05 Thursday's minor moves Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays joining me today. It's my good friend Nate Tyson. How you doing, buddy? Doing very well. Put the fours up. Put the fours up fourth quarter.

Here we are. Free agency, day four. Put those fours up. But I'm doing very well. Some interesting. Some news every night, it seems like, that we get to marinate on throughout the day and then get to talk about a few hours later. How are you doing?

How are you doing it? Is it the big easy? I'm in the big easy. I'm in New Orleans. It's been great so far. My friends rolling in. We had a wonderful afternoon as I was eating a po-boy and keeping track of what was going on in the free agency world. What?

Shrimp-po boy? Shrimp and oyster is what I went with. Oh, you have full-blown. Yeah. It was very, very good. So I'm starting at off right. We had a fantastic meal yesterday. I'll do a full New Orleans food recap next week after I'm done.

We don't want to do it halfway. So just a quick heads up. Not a ton to get to today. So we'll get through some of these fairly quickly. We're not going to do any kind of big picture wrap-up stuff yet just because I'm going to save that for early next week into the middle of next week. So kind of some winners and losers, big picture thoughts about free agency. We're going to have plenty of time for that as some more of these signings roll in and the dust clears a little. So today we're just going to kind of pick off, you know, six, eight signings and maybe some conversations about teams and how those signings fit into some plans today.

but we've already knocked out most of this. Things are starting to die down. I think that's kind of the big picture takeaway here is that most of the big dominoes have fallen, and we're going to talk about physically the biggest domino of them all to fall in free agency, and that is Orlando Brown signing with the Cincinnati Bengals, okay? Tom Pelliserro had it first Manifal Network four years, $64 million, a $31 million signing bonus. You know what reports that it's $43 million guaranteed. Seems shockingly low, right?

Yeah. I was talking to somebody about signing and lending in Cincinnati this morning. I was picking their brain and was a coach and asking him, why do you think the market was so low? I don't know what the market forces were, but I think the only reason Cincinnati was able to be involved, it was because it was this reasonable. They obviously got some big checks coming down the road here, but now they have a guy who is going to play left tackle for them. locked in for $16 million a year for less guaranteed money than Mike McGlenshey got from the Broncos. Which is really, when you stack it up, you first, it's like, oh, 16 million a year. And then you stack it up and look at other tackle contracts, even with the guarantees.

It's like, okay, this is, I know he wanted to set the market and this is well, not even like setting that upper tier. This is that kind of next tier down, which it shocked me. I thought somebody would bite and it looked like no one did. I mean, someone did. The Bengals did. other teams were interested, of course. It seemed, you know, I trotted out the Kalil Mack trade because the Bengals had space. And I was curious, you know, with their signing.

They brought, yeah, they brought Pratt back. But they kind of kept that space a little, you know, a viable candidate to assign somebody. I was just very curious who it was. And it turned out to be Orlando Brown that they made a stab at. But yeah, it really was. I thought the money would be a little bit more, even if I didn't feel like it was justified. This actually is like a little more tolerable for what he is. is and kind of how the market broke out. I mean, he's making less per year than guys like,

you know, like Gariboles. Like that some of the right tackles. Less than less per year and less guaranteed than Taylor Moten. Yeah. And less again, less per year and less guaranteed than Mike McGlenshy. The contract is less than what Cam Robinson got per year. I mean, it, we talked about this in relation to Donovan Smith, kind of the guys in that serviceable tier of left tackle contract. where they're getting between 15 and $17 million a year. The way that I've always described it is the Jake Matthews contract. Like, he's the guy I use is kind of the benchmark for it. Yeah.

This comes in. Above average to good. Like, you know, that tier. And this is where it comes in. And I don't know if this was a case of there not being that many teams like we talked about that had a seat at left tackle where they were willing to pay a premium for him. If this is how the league viewed him. I don't know exactly what factors led to this, but it's definitely a smaller number

than I would have anticipated for sure. Absolutely. There's a couple of these contracts this season. I don't know. It just feels like the secondary market, not the DBs, but the second tier market and third tier markets kind of no one blinked. No one kind of outbid themselves. They really felt like teams were pretty smart about it. And it feels like a lot of those for a premium position like this, that tackle and a corner as we talked about yesterday is those premium position second market or the second tier market has kind of solidified. Like, nope, this is what we're paying. It's a good point. And it's interesting. I think it's a, it teams have gotten a little bit smarter. It feels like a lot of teams are like, nope, no, we're not doing it. We're not doing it. We're not doing it. It's got to make sense. Yeah, I got a credit. I like this for the Bengals, too. Just speaking from that, I think this is more than fair for Orlando Brown is. I really do. Um, so yeah, it was just, it was interesting. I really did think somebody would blink and splurge on him like someone, like the Broncos did with McGlinchie. Like they, they blinked a little bit there. And it feels like somebody did with Orlando Brown. They guess, I guess they did not. On the bankless side of this, I think two things to consider short term, long term. Short term, he's going to play left tackle for them. I can talk with somebody about that this morning. As he'll tell you. He is going to play left tackle for them. So what does that mean with Jonah Williams? I think the first iteration of the plan is that Jonah Williams will probably play on the right side.

But I don't think that is set in stone. I think their thought short term here is let's get our best five. Let's figure out who the best five are. Let's go through camp. Let's see who that group is that gives us the best chance to win this year. Jonah Williams on his fifth year option this season. So he will likely be moving on next year anyway. So I think that there's a short term aspect of this.

and the long-term aspect is we now have a left tackle for the next several years at reasonable cost control as we have to pay borough as we have to pay Jamar Chase all of that. Yeah. I mean, look at how they try to hodgepodge their offensive line together, even investing those first round picks like Jonah or free agency last year, Lale Collins. They're trying to find answers. They're trying to find answers. We've talked about that.

But it's like they're trying to find answers. And at least this is this is better than a lot of other answers that could, they could have had. They could have drafted another guy in WIF. They could have had another stop gap and try to figure it out. This is a real, real deal tackle at either side, but going to be left here. They're going to find their best answer, like you said, their best five. That's, I think, and again, I think teams have gotten a little smarter about that have gone, we just got to figure it out.

Let's get guys that are a little versatile. I can play both sides and make the best five out there. So it made a lot, a lot more sense for the Bengals than I maybe realized going into this process, but I just didn't think they would be in that range and they were. Steelers also reportedly in the mix. that's a team we threw out that potentially could be interested in him just because they did have a seat available where a lot of teams did not. Bears were not in the mix. Ryan Poles said during his press conference today that the scheme match is a big deal for Cincinnati.

What do you think he means by that as to why Orlando Brown is a better scheme fit in Cincinnati than he would be in Chicago? Well, okay, in the Chicago, we've talked about Chris Morgan, the offensive line coach, and even with Luke Getsey, they like to, they prefer zone running scheme. That's what they want to do. One-A. If they can't do it, they'll find other answers. Landau Brown is not a zone tackle. He is a power tackle. A lot of gap scheme runs in Baltimore.

When he even went to the Raven, or when he went to the chiefs, one of our immediate responses was, does this mean that the chiefs are shipping to a more gaff-heavy scheme? It took them two years to get there, but a lot more gap scheme runs from Kansas City this year. And Cincinnati, even though they come from a zone-based scheme where Zach Taylor was with the Rams, the new line that they had last season, we saw them fold in and kind of become more of a gap scheme running. Yes, especially from the gun.

It's a lot of what he did with the Chiefs is going to translate. The duo counter stuff, counter gap scheme like you're referring to, that matters. He's a power tackle. He's an at-you tackle either as a polar. Even though he's not the greatest athlete, he moves well as a polar. That's what he did at Oklahoma. It's what he did with Baltimore. It's what he did with Kansas City.

I bet you the Bengals are going to do that. We've talked about so much with the evolution of the Bengals run scheme. And it's because they had to be, they're so spread heavy as far as like not a lot of tight ends attached. They're an 11 personnel a lot. So they had to reconfigure their run game. And that's what led to a lot of their success in 2022. Orlando Brown fits that really well. Like just a duo at you run games and all the stuff that they trap. They like to run trap where he's pulling. This makes a lot more sense for Cincinnati scheme-wise than ever did for Chicago. And that's why I was a little worried when at first I heard that they were interested because

it doesn't really fit that well. Adam John's talking today about the potential outcome. everyone cares about this, the Bears five offensive alignment, but Braxton Jones sticking on the left side, having Kevin Jenkins by left guard, maybe Cody Whitehaire plays center, Nate Davis, and then taking a right tackle, which as things were coming together and was wondering where White Hair might play because of Jenkins, I think that made sense to me, but now you put yourself in a position where you need to find a right tackle in the draft. And that's never really a fun place to be. They may not see it that way. They may just say, yeah, we'll piece it together.

We're two years away anyway. But if you're trying to get answers on your quarterback, I think that there should be some urgency about who's going to play that spot and there just aren't that many bodies left available in free agency. I know that Darnell Wright from Tennessee. I've talked about him. He's a right tackle. I really like him, especially in that early teen slot number nine. But really, once you get outside that kind of top seven of this draft with the quarterbacks and then the kind of, well, whatever you want to make of Davis right now, but with Will Anderson and all that, like then it becomes like, okay, we can quote unquote reach, but I don't think it's that much

of a reach. It's two spots, four spots from one of those guys are ranked. So I think Darnell Wright would be a great fit. But there's other, it makes a little more sense now if they are aiming for a right tackle to maybe build around. Maybe that has upside to maybe even move to the left side. Parrish Johnson as well from Ohio State is another answer as well. You said Davis, you met Jalen Carter. You're mixing up your big Georgia defensive. Georgia 10 tackles.

Do you see me hesitate too? Because I was like, I know this is wrong. We're on day four here, buddy. Nolan Smith, Walker. I don't know. I'll name all of them except for the guy I'm trying to say. But as anyone that's listened to this show, do that quite often. We're four days in here.

Fours a year. We're getting by. Fourth quarter. Fourth quarter. We're getting through. Let's stick in the AFC North here. This is a guy that I threw his name out when we were doing our Kirkland brand show. Like, all right.

If you're going to shop in a different aisle, he can give you pretty good production. The Brown signed one Thornhill, three years, $21 million, according to Tom Pellasero, $14 million guaranteed. I really like it. I do too. They're building the spine, man. The moves they've made on defense. So now you have Dalman Tomlinson that you drop in, Okoronkwo,

and now you have Juan Thornton Hill stepping in for John Johnson at a pretty reasonable price. Yeah. You can get behind the pieces that the Browns have on defense right now. And this isn't breaking the bank. I mean, this is very, very fair for what Juan Thornton Hill is. He's a useful guy. He is also if Schwartz, if Jim Schwartz wants to be a little bit more, aggressive. He's great as kind of the lynchpin guy to, like, kind of shore up a lot of other

things that's happening around him. Just really, the rebuilding that's spine. And this is what they've needed. Anyone that watched the Brown's defense get gashed in the run game or anything over the middle of the field, it's like, man, how do we, how do we fix this? Well, you invest in a nose tackle and then you get a secondary pass rusher on passing downs, which is also something they've needed for a few years. I know Clownie was there and played well. But again, like we talked about this. Different types of player. Different type, different type. Different type. This guy is a true DPR designated pass rusher as opposed to Clowny, who kind of was balanced, did both. And then Thornton Hill is a lot more, I'm going to say a creative player when maybe you can get creative with him.

You can do a lot with him. And I think that makes sense. It's not going to be as static of a defense. They'll be a little bit quarters base still. But he's kind of, Schwartz will reconfigure based on how his player's skill set, some playmaking at the position. I think that's a better way to put it. But I think Thornton Hill really, really matches this. I like this.

Another great fit. I really, really like this signing. this is going to be a really forced analogy, but after you made a couple cross-sport ones yesterday that I appreciate it, I'm trying to throw my hat in the ring here. And I almost feels like Clowny is more of like a dirty work, like rebound and defense type of guy where Okorakwo's game is like more of like a shooter. Like it's like a little bit smoother.

It's a little bit cleaner. Like he's going to get you those dagger sacks in a way where Clowny was just kind of like a wrecked shit player. It's a very forced analogy, but just like watching both of them, that's what it feels like the difference is. He's like a rim running dunker. That's what Cloudy is now. That's how Clowny plays. And that is not how Ocaronqua plays.

And so you're a little bit more bendy. It's a different body type. You're just getting a different feel out of that secondary pass rusher than what you've gotten over the last couple years when Clownie has been that guy. I like this a lot, man. It's these are, even if I thought the Tomlinson thing was a little bit of an overpay, I understood the thought process behind it because of what they needed. I think these are all three just like at least doubles for the Browns. I really, really like this trio of guys they signed. And Delpit started playing much better at the end of last season.

You have Thornton Hill in there to be kind of, again, just a stable force. Their corner group is pretty good. You have a little bit more meat up front. Just the overall starting 11 on defense looks so much different than it did last year. I think in large part just because Delvin Tomlinson is so much different of a body type and a skill set than what they've had over the last couple years where when you see him in the grander mix of it, it just feels so much different than the type of team we've been looking at over the last couple seasons. Yeah.

They're add a little beef to their. speed and even if Okoronko is undersized, but that's what they're doing. They're adding a little more, well, meat and potatoes to some of the frosting they've had there. More ASC Nordstep. We haven't talked about this team really at all, but they've made a bunch of kind of lower tier, mid-tier signings. The Steelers have added a bunch of different pieces.

Yeah. They bring back Larry Oak and Joby, according to Tom Pelliserra, three years, 28.75 million, $17 million guaranteed. So definitely, like, one, two steps down from some of those other bigger defensive tackle deals that we've seen kind of like Tomlinson. They didn't really have much depth or many bodies on the interior of their defensive line. They have a couple guys that are expected to depart in free agency. So you keep him with Cam Hayward after they signed him last year.

And then some other things just to kind of like fill out depth on their defense. They go sign Cole Holcomb from Washington, who has been a useful player in Washington, somebody that can just plug and play. So they're clearly getting cheaper at that position. They cut Miles Jack. Devin Bush not expected to be there. So Hulcombs, again, just the guy you drop in and can play. Feels like Nate Herbig is the same kind of deal at Guard. And then they bring in a Landon Roberts.

So what they're doing, it feels like just kind of piecing together some of these starting roles. Patrick Peterson feels like that. I have no idea what to make of this team still. Like, they are just a black box to me. I still don't really understand the Steelers, but this is kind of the area they've been shopping in on defense here over the last week or so. Yeah, they're definitely working the middle aisles, maybe even to lower budget aisles. But these all made sense. And then with Ogon Joby, I mean, the Steelers run defense was fantastic last year.

I think they were like a top five unit. Look at all the metrics. But, you know, Ogon J. Hayward, T.J. Watt and Alex Highsmith, oh, man. That's a good group. That's a good. That's a fearsome for some right there. And yeah, it made sense they kind of de-invested or stopped investing in linebacker. It seems like, you know, the Miles Jack trade and all that. They kind of work, okay, what's reconfigure where we're putting our resources.

And, of course, they have the star of stars on the back end with Make of Fitzpatrick. So I think that's where we like to. And then they resigned to Monte Casey as well to kind of just be that other safety now that they might lose Terrell Edmund. So, I mean, it's not the most exciting group in the world, but they've done, they've been really successful with groups like that. Even like their cornerback play last year with like Weatherspoon and the guys they pieced it together. They've done a good job of piecing it together. And that's kind of what this feels like. Yeah.

No, that's exactly it, piecing it together. Even the Herbic signing. Like, I understand that. That's a little stab. You might get a nice solid guard there for $8 million over two years. That was fine. Like, it's just like you said, they're piecing all these parts together. And that's fine when you're doing that in free agency.

And then you keep your resources in the draft. And you're able to kind of maybe find more of those splashier star potential players in the draft. That's what they're doing. They're trying to just get on base with these guys. And I think they did a good job with it. I think Holcomb is fine. I don't think there's going to be much drop off, even if he doesn't have the name recognition of the guys that he's replacing. And that's how you win free agency.

You save money and get the same kind of level of play from the guy. He was a much, much better player than Jamie Davis when Javan Davis was drafted in the first round. He got Coralcom holding down the middle of that defense in Washington when you're just terrified about the play of your first round pick consistently, which again is one of the reasons why investing in a first round pick at off ball linebacker is often a dicey proposition. Couple more running back signings. Miles Davis. Miles Davis. Good Lord. Miles Davis.

Hey, you're in New Orleans. I haven't heard way too much trumpet over the last 24 hours, apparently. Do we have a Louis Armstrong coming up? I was at a spot last night and guy just killing it out of the trombone. Just just kill, just killing it. I was like, oh, man, this is, I love this place. All right.

And just, and it's like, how are you not a star? You'll walk by these people playing. It's like, this is the best music I've ever heard. It's like this hole-in-the-wall bar with 30 people in it, the beautiful music being played. Miles Sanders landing in Carolina, quarantine raport and Mike Arefoo, four years, $25 million, $13 million guaranteed.

Pretty robust deal for a second contract for a running back. Duce Daly is the running back's coach there, a little reuniting, a little reunion there for those two guys now in Carolina. What do you think about this as it relates to the broader scope? of the panthers offense and how miles Sanders fits in carolina they needed backs you know that's i actually thought with how strong or i project how strong their offense a line was going to be i didn't think they'd have to invest that much they got so such good play out dante foreman last year and uh hovered that that i kind of thought okay you can find a guy in the middle aisles you'll find some guy that

would just get a job done or a day three pick or something of that sort so i was surprised that they were the team that made this splash move. Miles Sanders is talented. He was one of my most improved players, not just because of the yardage that he gained this past year, but because of his play style. He always liked the bounce things. I've talked about this before, but he became a lot more patient as a runner staying in between the tackles. He still is the liability and pass protection. He is best running out of the shotgun. So he has some limitations. And if I'm splashing some money at a runnerback, I don't want to really hear about limitations. I want my guy to be a true three-down guy. that can take 20 touches and don't even think twice about it.

So I just, I was surprised. I like the player. I like Miles Sanders. I like this fit because I think the offensive lines could be great. So I think he's going to eat. I just was a little surprised by that they would actually splurge on him because I just didn't think it was necessary. So this feels like the tier of running backs that is starting to emerge kind of a step down

from the big name guys, right? So obviously, you know, we've seen the contracts that McCaffrey got and Alvin Gamera, Derek Henry, you know, Nick Chubb is kind of in that same general range in AAB. this is not dissimilar to the deal that James Connor got from the Cardinals last year. James Conner got that a little bit older, I want to say, than Miles Sanders was getting that second deal. Steve Kimes special. Yeah, that was just one of those deals that just like never really made sense. They're keeping together in offense.

It's like aging and not that great. But he was 26. James Connor was 26 when he signed that deal. Miles Sanders is 25. So those two guys signed a very similar contract. And then this is very similar to the one that David Montgomery signed. So it's kind of like that starting caliber, second to third tier running back contract that has started to emerge around the league a little bit, the likes of which we don't see very often. Yeah.

These contracts are fairly rare just because if you're going to sign a guy to this sort of deal, it almost feels like you're going one step up in order to sign someone or you're waiting to get somebody in the draft. So there aren't that many of these. There's like three or four of them. Yeah, the middle class is really there in runoffbacks. It's either guys that get splurged on, like usually those names you mention CMC and all that, or let's find some new fodder to throw in there. Let's find some new day three pick or some guy for a one year or two year deal. That's cheap. So this is really interesting.

Okay. So. And by AAV, you have McCaffrey, Camara, Dalvin Cook, Derek Henry, Nick Chubb, Joe Mix and Aaron Jones, all of them making at least $12 million by AAV. Guarantees all over the place. Obviously, the Bengals don't guarantee anything after the first year. So the guarantees are anywhere from $15 million for those other guys up to $30 million for McCaffrey. Still fairly low considering the overall deals. And then you have the three guys on franchise tags after that group.

Tony Powell or Josh Jacobs, Sequin Barclay at $10.1 million. Then it's a significant step down. There are four or five guys then at like $6 to $7 million. And that group is James Connor, Miles Sanders, Neheme Heinz on his old deal that he signed with the Colts. the Austin Echler deal that he signed in 2020, which was a steel at the time, and it's still a steal. David Montgomery,

Kareem Hunt. Yeah. So, and that's that next group. So it feels like we got the top group, the guys on tags, and then this other kind of second tier that has started to emerge a little bit.

It's like the aces that play 80% of your snaps, and then it's the guys that are more of that 60-40 split of snaps. Like, you still need another back to help carry this load. And these are the thumpers of that group. You know, I mean, if you wanted to describe David Montgomery is kind of a thumper. And I think in that role in Detroit, that's what he is.

Yes. Yes. Yes. No, big back. Yeah, no. It's an interesting set of tears. It is. It is. I know. I know high. And then Naim Hyme Hyde. It's one of those that me and you love him, but maybe you shouldn't get that contract. That's a little bit overpay for him. But it's another usual player that's part of a split. Like he's going to need another guy with him in the runback room. So one step down even a little bit further from that. And I guess it makes sense. He's on his third contract. So it's a different sort of consideration is Jamal Williams signing with Saints, three years, 12 million. So it's four million a year with eight million guaranteed. So the first two years essentially of that deal. But I think

this is kind of a similar consideration. Like I think that he's probably a little bit less dynamic than some of those guys that we talked about that are in that second tier of like moderate workhorse running backs. Yeah. Yeah. And that's yeah. Jamal Williams is all these guys have uses. And that that's what is. It's almost like you want to compare Jamal Williams with Nahim Hines, even though the run styles are very different. uses in certain roles. Like, it depends what happens with Camara, with Camara, but it's, Jamal Williams and him pair together very, very well. We've always seen this.

It was Markingham and then it was Tamis Murray and then now it's just, this is the version of it. That's it. That's it. This is the next version of it. And it's that type of back. They take their 12 touches, you know, and they play a lot of valuable snaps for you as pass protection.

And then if it's third one, they're back there. And they're running down the pipe for you. But that's useful. But that's what it is. That's that tier right now, those guys that are maybe with another back and they're kind of that complimentary role. So say in the running back lane here, Alexander Madison gets two years, seven million with most of that guaranteed reportedly, according to Tom Palisero, to stay with the Vikings. Seems like this is giving them the option potentially to move on from Dalvin Cook if they want to. What do you think about Madison?

Let's say you're throwing three guys out. Jamal Williams, Madison, Miles Sanders. Do you think this is reasonable money in that sort of framing for a guy like Alexander Madison? No, I think he's a tier below those two of Miles Sanders and Williams. I think he's just okay. Like when I say the term replacement level, that's how Madison feels to me. Gotcha. You're not, he's not a losing player where this guy shouldn't play, but it's not like he's not winning you games.

He's just eating snaps for you. That's what he always felt like to me because he's had so many times to take that role and run with it, pun intended. but he kind of just never did. He just doesn't have that something to him that I think is flashy. I think this is a little bit overpaid, but I understand why they did it in case they do move on from Daumicoke and having something, some replacement level back as opposed to go, I'm like, oh, shit, we're playing two rookies and one of them's undrafted.

You know, I think that's what they did here. Some more NFC news, Fletcher Cox heading back to the Eagles, one year and $10 million. They are also keeping Darius Slay. Our first little rope-a-dope. moment of the free agency period where guys, listen, if it's not pen to paper and nothing's been signed, you can still change your mind. You can say whatever you want.

So Darius Slay heading back to the Eagles, I don't know exactly what the financials of that are. But now, with Darius Slay coming back, they lost Hargrave, T.J. Edwards, and Marcus Epps's starters. But they've brought back James Bradbury, Brandon Graham, Slay, Fletcher Cox. They have Nikobe Dean potentially waiting in the wings to step in. for Edwards. We know that they have some pieces on the defensive line and they can find the safety somewhere, especially if S.J. Garter Jans comes back and they have one of those two guys.

This group mostly that we thought would have to just be totally torn down or at least refabricated over the course of this season. Now is going to come back mostly intact it feels like. Yeah, which surprised me. I thought one of these corners would be gone. Like if I were a betting man, which I am. And I, Hartgrave felt like he was gone. Like he was going to get paid off this deal. Yeah,

yeah, yeah, that one felt inevitable. Edwards felt like he was gone because somebody would pay for him. He had a really good year and someone would pay for him. So those two kind of felt inevitable. But all the other ones, it was kind of question marks.

And I mean, getting Fletcher Cox back, man, he was wildly productive and his underlying numbers are great for him. And hell yeah, go for that. And then Slay coming back, I actually really liked this because they kind of let him

test the market because he wanted to raise. Oh, I want the raise. They're like, okay, fine. Go see if you can find somebody. And he went out there and then they welcomed him back with open arms. And I think it's a win-win because it's not a bad move for the team to say they did it right. They communicated it with it. They said, hey, go test your waters, see what happens. And they build us from goodwill and said, hey, we're not so bad, are we? Like, we're not paying you that bad, are we? Like, so come back to Philly. So I don't know. I think this is a win-win for everybody. I'm sure Eagles are stoked because that's another hole they don't have to fill. I'm sure they'll move too money around like they always do. Speaking of

moving money around. I wanted to ask you this while you're in the Saints section. So now that these, a lot of the dominoes have fallen, a lot of the dust is set out, whatever metaphor you want to use about the Walens's building process here. So now you have Derek Carr, you have Michael Thomas,

Alvin Camara, Chris Olavay, Juan Johnson is back. You know, they, uh, Rashid, uh, Rashid, who was very good for them last year. I'm turning into you. And they have a pretty solid offensive wine and we know, what their defense is.

I tweeted out a picture today of what their salary cap looks like. And every single guy has a million dollar base salary. Like every single guy with all the restructures that they've done. Jamal Williams's cap hit this year is like $1.3 million, which kills me. I have no interest in talking about whether or not that's a smart team building strategy anymore. That's bores me at this point. Just for this season. I'm sort of intrigued by the States.

I don't know if they're going to be good, but building this version. of it, the way that they have, I get it. It's like, okay, well, why can't we be, like, the best team in this division, certainly? And you look at the NFC and, like, the quarterbacks in the NFC. I think it is a objectively risky way to live and exist. And if you're betting on a cataclysmic event somehow happening that destroys the world and you don't have to worry about it anymore, I understand that. But, and they probably need it at this point, eventually somewhere down the road. But they are mildly intriguing to me as a 2023. built roster. They are the team that's going, hey, zero is going to hit on roulette one time. It's going to hit. Hey, it's just in the odds. It's going to hit. And I think that's what they're doing. The offense is intriguing, especially if Michael Thomas, and this is, God, just pull a string. How many times have he said this? Like, one of us has said this. Like, if Michael Thomas comes back into somewhat of his final or fully formed Michael Thomas play, really intriguing pass catchers like you laid out, The offense line, if they can stay healthy, is a very talented offensive line.

A lot of guys I like there, McCoy. It is solid at the very least. Oh, yeah, Ruiz was way improved last year. And I've always been a fan McCoy. He just hasn't stayed healthy and Ramchick as well. You know, we'll see what happens with Penning. But it's a lot of talent on that offense. Of course, I love Chris Olavé.

I think we both do. I think he's going to be a star. But I really already is. It's intriguing. It's an intriguing roster. and I understand it. In 2023, what's not even care about 2024 or 2025 or anything that happens in in 2020. It's intriguing. I'm very, very interesting. I'm interested in all the NFC South teams, really. Bucks, maybe not. But I'm really interested in the Falcons as well, really interested in the Panthers as well.

It's going to be a fun little kind of, I don't say a fist fight, but slap fight, whatever that's called now that the UFC sponsors now. That's what it feels like to me. Who's going to just slap each other silly? A couple other teams trying to wedge their way. It's like NFC contender status because there isn't a lot happening at the top of that conference. The Giants signed Paris Campbell one year, three million. Worthwhile bet. I mean, this is just one of those teams that we need pass catchers. We need to find a way to support whatever our, whatever.

This Daniel Jones-Laden plan. This Daniel-Jones-centric plan, how can we surround him with guys in a market where there aren't a lot of available past catchers? Trading for Darren Waller and signing Paris Campbell on a one-year prove-a-deal. I think is the start of a very solid approach with those spots. Yeah, you can't build a receiving room without starting at the bottom or start in the middle. Like, yes, everybody wants the ace and the number one. Even if you got that guy and you drafted the guy, they still needed a two and a three. Hodgson said a nice year, but they still needed a whole room to rebuild.

So this is a part of it. And they resigned Sterling Shepherd, who was playing while last year before he got hurt. I mean, there are obviously these guys are massive injury histories with guys like Campbell, Shepherd, Waller had struggled to say healthy last year. But it's not like they're paying big money or overextending themselves for any of these guys. It's a lot of fairly cheap dice rolls. Let's see if we can piece this thing together with these sort of mild, modest bets that we're making. And it's certainly a different looking and more impressive group than it was a year ago.

So I understand their thinking here. Staying on kind of modest bets at wide receiver, DJ Chark visiting the Panthers. This feels like the type of thing may need. This is perfect. Yep. This is what they need. He's the ex-receiver of fortune. That's what he is.

And I'm all about this. Like, this is exactly the competent ex-receiver for whoever they're going to pop in that quarterback. And they need pass catchers. And he's won. And he's a very solid one. If you're trying to figure out, how can we make sure that we have the requisite amount of pass-catching talent to allow our rookie quarterback to function as soon as possible?

DJ Shark is like the perfect outside receiver to fit into a plan, into a plan like that. He's perfect. He can go vertical. He does enough for you. Like he's, when he was healthy at the end of last year, he was looking really good.

So yeah, I'm all about this. They were kicking the tires probably on feeling as well. I'd much rather have chark in this offense and a little bit of youth. He's still in his mid-20s. Much rather take a bet on this and pop him in there because he's going to, he's going to help out your receiving room. He'll play winning football for you.

Last one here on the receiver train. A little update on the juju numbers from yesterday. We were a little bit. surprised that he got what seemed like the same deal as Jacoby Myers got. Why wouldn't they want to keep Jacoby Myers? It's three years 25 and a half for Juju. That 33 is, it was a little bit inflated. So now maybe makes a little bit more sense compared to why you would want Juju

compared to Jacobi Myers. So we think is a better player and just a more dynamic option for them within that offense. So a slight discount may be one of the driving forces there. Taylor Rap visiting the Patriots on Thursday. This is a team that certainly loves their flexibility in the secondary. And that is something that Taylor Rapp would be able to give them. So pretty on brand for the types of players that the Patriots chase on defense. I know.

It's Kyle Van Nuoy has story. He's not DB, but Kyle Van Nuoy had a story when he went from Detroit to the Patriots. And he said, like, his first practice, Belichick walked up to him and was spinning the whistle. And he just goes, how you doing, Kyle? And he's like, he's a good coach. How you doing? He's like, I always get my guys. And that's what this feels like.

Like this is like a Belichick guy that like he's kind of going after. Like this is exactly the type of player that he likes. All right. I think that's mostly all we've got. We've got a couple smaller ones. Patriot signed James Robinson, which was as a Remindsay Stevenson dynasty owner makes me a little bit sad. But the fact that they're not going out and getting any like a big number two guy, I think is probably fine. The lion signed Graham Glasgow, according to Amshep Shefter one year up to four and a half million.

They just need a guard. They're going to move on from my tie, which it feels like they're going to. They just need to find an answer at guard. That was the biggest issue that they had for most of last season. Isaiah Oliver signs with the Niners on a two-year deal. Explain why. He's a nickel. He really came into his own.

He's about some injuries the last couple of years. My two-time Kirkland brand nomination at the quarter position, but he was much better moved to the slot. I think he's just a do-it-all, aggressive player. I even have a fun little stat. There are 204 DBSs last year, played 300 more snaps. He played like 350, Isaiah Oliver did. He was second and snaps per splash play.

Splash play is being like TFLs, run stops, PbUs, interceptions, forced fumbles, whatever you want to say. He was just above Jaylon Ramsey, Avante Maddox and Mika Fitzpatrick. Eighth was Jimmy Ward. And that's that statistic. They needed a slot, perfect. I mean, this defense is really, really cool, I think, with especially their DB room with Fonga, Gives, and Tavarious Ward.

I'm a big fan of Lenore, and it's cool that he could play nickel. He had some snaps at nickel, and they liked him better on the outside, which I think is really cool as well. So, God, this defense is going to be awesome again. I really do think it even losing Damiko rides. This is going to be a really cool defense. And I like this. I thought there was a really nice signing. The Niners are one of those teams, especially in the secondary.

When they make a move, it's like, ooh, I wonder why. Like, what do they see? Like, why are they piecing it together? Because they've been able to do that. I mean, like, going to getting to our various ward and some of the guys that they've signed in the veteran free agency to fill holes for them. Even like what they got out at Hachon Gibson last year and him coming back, they've just done such a good job of squeezing everything they can on some of these value signings in the secondary. And, you know, we'll see. Obviously, this is, they're turning a new page with Steve Wilkes coming in there.

And, you know, this is the first time where they haven't handed it off to somebody in-house or had somebody that was a part of that group that really built it from Salah to Domingo Ryans. And, you know, it's them maintaining what they've. been defensively is going to be maybe more of a challenge than people might think just because, again, it's an outside hire, you're losing some continuity. So we'll see what happens. But they're a team that has done very, very good at kind of plugging these holes on defense over the last couple years. Yeah. And even with Wilkes, if he wants to be aggressive, like this is a perfect type of slot, you know, this is what, you know, with Atlanta being pretty aggressive, it wasn't a great defense, but Dean Peace being, being Dean Peace and bringing all those blitzes, like he, he liked Oliver. Because

So he was like, I can get this guy going. I let them probably a couple dozen times, but it was like that's where he fits if Wilkes wants to be more aggressive. Like he's shown Carolina a little bit after Snow moved on last year or they fired Snow. I should say Phil Snow. Really some of the bigger dominoes that still half the fall, still waiting on Dalton Schultz, and see what he's going to do and how that might affect some of the other pre-agent tight ends who might be available. Still waiting on CJ Gardner Johnson, which we alluded to a little bit. Yeah.

The Odell Beckham question is a big looming question. Bobby Wagner, if we're sticking on some of those legacy guys who are available right now. Isaac Salamalu, Salamalu has not signed anywhere yet, so he's kind of the last interior, free agent offensive linemen to keep an eye on. But a lot of these dominoes have art, and then Dalton Reisner as well. So I think they're probably kind of waiting for the other person's market to kind of shake out. Really, the only guard who is signed is Ben Powers, like up there and those the best available guards and the kind of starting caliber guards who are available.

But other than that, man, again, a lot of this stuff has fallen into place. So we will spend some time over the next. Keep an eye on my guy, Yash. And that's right. Yeah, that's another one. And that is absolutely another one. I'm just interesting because I'm curious who's doing their homework. And so I'm curious if he has any market.

I have no idea. But it would be really interesting just for me because that's the stuff that gets me excited. That gets me going in the fourth quarter of free agency week. It's seeing the market for a restricted free agent for an offensive tackle at the second round tender. That's what gets me going. So we will have some more coming out of the weekend, either coming to you guys, first thing Monday morning or early at some point on Monday, just looking back at the week that was. So please be on the lookout for that. Tomorrow, Mike Sando and Randy Mueller are going to be doing the football GM on Friday.

I am out. So those guys are taking over. for us. We're handing off the free agency recap baton to them. I'm sure you'll get Randy's thoughts on a lot of some of the bigger deal signings that have happened. You know, these guys really haven't recorded since free agency began. So excited for them to be able to share their thoughts on that.

So please come back and check out Mike and Randy tomorrow. Taking over for us. In the meantime, we sincerely appreciate you guys listening. If you have not, please rate and review the podcast on your podcast platform of choice. You can do that on Apple Podcast. Leave us a message. Let us know why you love the show. We would sincerely appreciate that.

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Thank you guys very much for all the support. We're excited for all the stuff that we're. we're going to be doing on video here over the next couple months. So please come back and continue to check that out. For now, that is all we got. Please come back and check out Randy and Mike tomorrow. Appreciate you listening. We'll talk to you soon.

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