The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - NFL midseason awards & superlatives with Bill Barnwell

Episode Date: November 3, 2021

What team has impressed the most this season? What team has been the most disappointing? Who is leading the way for offensive and defensive rookie of the year? Coach of the year? MVP? ESPN’s Bill Barnwell joins Robert Mays to give out midseason awards and superlatives.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. Today is Wednesday, November 3rd. I'm Robert Mays. Joining me today, it's my good friend Bill Barnwell. Bill, how you doing, buddy? I'm great, Mase. How are you?

You don't sound great. I was hoping. You're not happy to be here? I'm happy to be talking to you about football. I was admittedly, as someone who loves a good trade, hoping for a little more. trade deadline action, but we didn't get that. I'm not surprised. I feel like with a lot of the cap constraints,

it was going to be a down year in what is always a disappointing time in the NFL calendar. There are a lot of benefits to covering the NFL. I find the sport fascinating. I think that there's always something going on and we're talking about. But when it comes to trade deadlines, we get the short end of the stick. I mean, Nick Foles couldn't have gone somewhere. He has to be the third-string quarterback for the Bears. Would that really have moved the needle for you?

you, that's what you would have gotten excited about? I'm just got to scratch that it, you Mace. I need something more than Melvin Ingram going to the Chiefs. And there was like some six-round pick. Oh, no, the Lauren Duvarni-Hardiv trade. So two trades, not enough. Blockbusters. I mean, we did get a whole-of-fame player traded yesterday to arguably the best team in the

NFL. That's really all you can ask for. And he traded apparently because he threw a party and then asked his teammates to pay for it and the teammates were like, yeah, maybe not. And that didn't go over super well. Did that seriously happen? That is per reports. I cannot confirm that myself.

I'm not reporting that myself. Just per reports, von Miller planned a party and the team, the rest of his team, didn't really want to pay for it. And it created some dissension, allegedly, supposedly. I would love to know more about the details of this. Pay for the event space, pay for the food. Pay for the guest. A member of Migos was going to be the musical guest for this party.

I feel like they don't come cheat. I love that you know this. I mean, I have the internet. I'm not like not a total invalid when it comes to figuring out how stories break. I didn't do the reporting myself here. And again, this is not, I believe it's not confirmed as of yet. What does Emily Post say about this? You're supposed to pay for your own party, right?

I will say at the same time, I don't know how you would take me as an M.A. Postbuff. But certainly, it feels like Von Miller, one of the highest paid players in the NFL for a long time now can probably afford for his own Halloween party. All right. We're going to actually do a show today. And we're going to do it is because it's the trade deadline season, because it's the middle of the season, we're going to do a check-in about halfway through the year. We're going to do some superlatives. We're going to do some awards, some of the things that. maybe it snuck up on us and we're a bit surprising.

We're going to do all of that. And I want to start with what you think has been the most impressive team in the NFL through two weeks. Not the team you think is going to win the Super Bowl, not the team necessarily you think is the best on paper, but just the team that has impressed you the most through the first half of the season. I am very impressed by the New York Giants for managing to win two games, despite apparently not having a five. functional headset for most of those eight weeks. No, I would

say the Green Bay Packers. And I know that like, yes, they are 7 and 1, yes, if you move a few plays around, they're 4 and 4, like they're grossly outplaying their Pythagorean expectation. Like, this is a team that is so consistent when it comes to finding

ways to win football games. I mean, having Aaron Rogers helps in that scenario. And yes, like, I don't know what AJ Green was thinking on that interception to end the Cardinals. most game, but, like, they're such a well-oiled machine. They have so many guys who can step up and make big plays. They are so consistent. And, I mean, I just, we're going to get to coach of the year later on. And I don't think he has any shot of winning. But, like, it does seem crazy that Matt Lafleur

is not going to be one of the favorites to win coach of the year this season. Do you feel like he's underrated in the job that he's done since he got there? I mean, I don't know how you feel about the Mike McCarthy era with some hindsight, but I think everyone agreed, okay, things are pretty stale here. I mean, it seemed like it was about to be the end of the Aaron Rogers era in Green Bay, whether it was a year away or two years away, who knows, they're 33 and seven since he got there. 13 and 3, 13 and 3, 7 and 1, two trips to the NFC championship. Yes, I mean, granted, they did not make it to the Super Bowl.

The end to their postseason have been frustrating last year. Lefleur probably deserves some of the blame with a late game decision. But like overall, you have to be pretty thrilled about this. Certainly, I mean, if Matt Lefleur were to leave that job tomorrow, I feel like there'd be maybe four teams, five teams in the NFL who wouldn't want to fire their existing coach and hire him. I mean, just given the track record he's developed so far, you have to say it's impressive. I agree. And I feel like he gets, it gets output a little bit just because of the Aaron Rogers' fact. but Aaron Rogers hadn't been Aaron Rogers

for the last couple years of the Michael McCarthy era. And I've seen and talked about the situation there a lot over the last couple years. I went up there in 2019 during LeFour's first season when that team was winning more than people expected. And their record that year was maybe a little bit misleading. I'm not sure they were really a 13 win team in terms of how well they were playing.

Last year, they were every bit the team their record said they were. But even during that first season. Well, whatever. They were better. They were better. That's what I'm saying. They were a better team last year than they were the year before, even if the win totals were the same. So if you look at, when you go back to that 2019 season, it just felt different there.

You say stale. Stale's a good word. It was stale there in the last couple years of McCarthy. It was kind of antiseptic and dead in a lot of ways, and it didn't feel like that anymore after LaFleur got there. It was funny. I thought about that this week, and Lucas Patrick, who was one of their backup offensive linemen, said this during a press conference, just talking about some of the interaction between him. and I think he was referring to Rogers.

And he was talking about the kind of emotional bank you have as a player with your teammates and how you put stuff in there over time. And under the McCarthy era, one of the defensive players on that team told me that they hung out like twice over the last two years of the McCarthy era as a group. They were never together. It was just a weird kind of atmosphere. And I think that's changed a lot. And that's just on an emotional level, personality-wise,

let alone all the schematic stuff that they do and the ways that they put that team in really good positions. And you said the amount of ways they can win on offense. I think that's going to be a theme here for me over the course of this show. But I totally agree. Yeah. I mean, this is a team that, you know, their formula has changed each season. I mean, year two, they have like the craziest red zone in the history of football. Aaron Rogers is league MVP. I mean, this year, they have not been great in the red zone. Aaron Rogers has not been playing at an MVP level. And there's still, winning football games. The defense has played a little better.

They're forcing a ton of takeaways. They just, they find a way to win every year. And maybe it'll go away. Maybe they'll go on a big losing streak right now. But I don't think that's likely to happen. I mean, they're just so consistently really good at this. Yeah.

And I think that them being heard up front makes it even more impressive. We're talking about the most impressive team. The fact that they've been able to win all these games without Bactiari, with a third string left tackle, there for a couple games. That to me is really notable. Right. I mean, like they've won games without Devante Adams. They've won games without, they're winning without J. Your Alexander. Like, like nothing seems to face them. I think it's a great point. And I feel like they're absolutely in contention here. I said the Rams just because the offense is even better than I expected it to be.

I, even if you could have predicted some of the tweaks that they'd have with Stafford, whether it's more shotgun, more spread out, they'd be able to push the ball down the field more often, more efficiently. I still didn't expect them to be the best offense in the league through the first eight weeks. Even if they were a tad more explosive and exciting, I didn't expect it to necessarily look like this. I didn't think the Cooper Cup would be on a historic-paced challenge Calvin Johnson records halfway through the season. And that's where we are. And just how different the offense looks and how different it feels in so many of these situations, that to me has been one of the more notable things about the entire season so far.

and that's why I would put them in that spot. Yeah, I mean, I can't fault you. Like, they were my second pick if it wasn't going to be the Packers. And the defense has been fine. You know, it's been borderline right above, right near the top 10, which is exactly, I think, what you would hope for when defense kind of vacillates from year to year. So I think combined with that and the way that they've been playing on offense,

they're my answer here. Sure. And now they get Von Miller. Yes. Add to the bunch, making, for them, the minimum, which is, I mean, like, I understand why people have been like, hey, you know, it was a great deal for the Broncos to get those day two picks. And I'm, you know, I'm a big pick guy. I'm not going to complain about that at all. But like, like, at the same time, you know,

like getting, getting a Hall of Fame edge rusher on a team where we know, uh, the guy in the middle is going to make any edge rusher look a lot better than they did elsewhere for $900,000. Like, I'm on board with that for sure. It's almost as if teams can make a trade and it could be beneficial for both sides in some way. One team doesn't have to win in a landslide every single time. Every trade doesn't have to be some treatise on value in what goes right or wrong in the NFL. Why are you coming at me for having a career to writing treatise as about value? Like, I don't criticize you for doing interviews and stuff.

You, I mean, most situations, you do a great job with that and you're a great arbiter of that value. In this case, the Internet does not have to pay. past some sweeping judgment about all of this. It makes sense for the Rams. It makes sense for the Broncos. I'm glad the trade happened. I find it interesting. That's why we need more trades.

So people are just focused on this one deal. All right. Let's go to the other side of this. Who would you say is the most disappointing team in the NFL through the first eight weeks? I mean, I feel like there's only maybe two choices. I think realistically one choice. I'm assuming we have the same one here. The dolphins?

It has to be the dolphins, right? Yeah. Like maybe, maybe Washington just because. Oh, we'll get to Washington. Okay. We'll get to Washington. But yeah, I mean, I think it has to be the dolphins. Yeah.

And we have another category that I'm going to throw Washington into it, and I'll explain why in a second. Okay. To me, if you told me coming into the season that the dolphins would be ranked 25th in offensive DVOA, which I believe is what they are right now, I would believe that. Oh, sure. It would be disappointing, but like, okay. you know, two, it fell flat. You know, we'll see if they can figure that out in the offseason. You know, maybe they'll make a trade for somebody.

That's, there's a pivot point there. I never expected every other aspect of their roster to look this bad. I never expected the defense to fall back to earth this hard. And it's one of those things where it's not just that the offense has been disappointing. It's not just that they haven't lived up to expectations. You can't tell me one thing they do well. And this was supposed to be a team that was supposed to be on the brink of making the playoffs this year. me like are they above average at throwing fades to tall white guys like that's

it's a small list of teams i mean like they have mike isicky and durham smiths derm smith's tall i i don't know how tall derm smithes yeah he's six six yeah i mean like he's tight up in the NFL he's taller than you i mean the steelers the steelers are rapidly approaching on them with the uh with pet friarm move faking over now but yeah i mean like like they don't do anything well and like coming into the season I don't know if we should have seen them being as bad as they are. But like, the writing was on the wall. Like they did very little to address their offensive line.

They have George Godsey and Eric Studeville as their offensive coordinator. I forget who it was. It might have been you. But I asked someone before the year, like, what is the dolphin scheme going to look like? And this is like, you know, like late August. Like we should have known this by now. And they were like, I have an absolutely no idea. I think it was said all our POs all the time.

And that's what their offense is. Yeah. And like, you know, that's. That's fine, I guess, but it'd be nice to have a plan B. And then I guess they're building up because they don't trust their line and they realistically shouldn't. They might not trust Tua. And I think Tua has been inconsistent, certainly. So far this year, there's been some flashes.

But, I mean, this is a very broken offense. Then on top of that, I mean, I sure you were going to say that the defense was something you would not have expected to be as bad as it is. And I agree. I mean, the talent on this defense has not. not changed all that much from a year ago. It was another year in this same scheme. I mean, the key players have been healthy. I think Saving Howard has been pretty good, not as good as it was a year ago, but still decent. Like Byron Jones isn't playing well. You know, there's just a lot of guys in this defense, just they're not playing at a high level. And I could have seen them being

average. I could have seen them being even a little below average, but they're bad. And like, it's so depressing because like there's so little to hold on to yeah when it comes to this team like I talked with uh Marcel Luis Jacques who covers the dolphins for us at ASPN my podcast last week and I said like hey like if you were going to you know talk about making trades with this team who's untouchable and he could name like three guys and that was it and I don't I think that's probably pretty accurate this is a hard tough task here but if you were trying to fix this in some way. What would your priorities be this offseason?

I think you start with the offensive line, right? I mean, it's terrifying because they put so many investments into it. Yeah, but you haven't done enough. At least three second round picks are higher, right, in the last two years? I believe that's true. Would you, hmm, okay, this might not be pop.

I actually know, because you can make him a head coach. Would you hire Bill Callahan as your head coach just so he could take over the offensive line? It's a creative solution. I will give you that. I don't know what you would do. And that's the problem is that it's the most disappointing part, and it's the most depressing part about where this team has landed is that we're at the end of this rebuild

where this was supposed to be it. They were supposed to have all of these picks, and it was supposed to create this foundation for the next stage of things in Miami. And those picks have all fallen so flat that there is no easy pivot point. There is no say, well, if they get a little bit better here or they do this, so many parts of this have just failed to materialize that I don't know what the next stage is supposed to look like. Do you think the Rams just send like the Dolphin Step chart around the building and just like, yes, this is why we hate picks. It's not the worst argument in the world.

It's not the worst argument. I'd rather be the Rams than the dolphins right now. Like, I can't blame it. But yeah, I mean, like, I think the, you know, the idea of, oh, let's just trade for Deshaun Watson. leaving aside the obvious moral and ethical quandaries that puts you into as an organization, like, that's not going to solve anything. Like, you're going to be, you'll be the 2020 Texans if you make that trade, a team that doesn't do a great job of protecting, doesn't have much around a quarterback,

and doesn't have a plan to get better, and doesn't really have the assets to get better when she make that trade. So, yeah, I mean, like, like, it feels like they have to take what they have, have and somehow make that better. And you can either land, you know, a 10 of 10 perfect head coach or you can get lucky. And like, I'm not sure what the alternative is for them. All right. Let's keep moving through these here.

What is the team coming into this season that you were the most wrong about? I think the Cavat here might be other than the Chiefs, but I don't know if that's necessary for you. I read that the Chiefs were going to decline before the 2021 season. I did not think to be fair they were going to be a team that was playing deep into the fourth quarter at home with the Giants on Monday football

I know the dolphins I thought dolphins were going to win the AFC East and clearly that that's wrong I would also say the Jags I thought the Jags had much more significant upside than they do I thought they were going to be a team that would compete to win the AFC South and that is not happening the Jags are awful yeah and And, you know, I figured, okay, well, you're getting a much better quarterback in Trevor Lawrence.

Maybe Urban Meyer is, you know, even if he is not the greatest off the field coach, maybe he is a solid offensive mind. This offense is a mess. You have guys who are not on the same page now still in week eight. The defense wasn't expected to be good. It has lived down to expectations. It's also bad. It's not so bad. And it wasn't expected to be good.

I mean, they have two takeaways in seven games. one of them is against the Cardinals of all teams, which is pretty remarkable. But, like, they're just, they're bad at everything. And, like, you only get a certain amount of time with Trevor Lawrence before you either, he either gets expensive or hurt or declines rapidly because he doesn't trust the players around him. And, I mean, I don't know what's going to happen. Maybe they will improve in the second half. Maybe Urban Meyer is just going to have this job for a while.

But, like, would it be more surprising to you at this point if Urban Meyer, you know, Meyer returned for a second season or left after one year taking over this team. It'd be surprising if he was back. I think as an organization with having Trevor Lawrence and having that piece already in place, I think that you'd be doing yourself a disservice by not trying to figure out some other way to move forward here, right? I mean, I can guess what the answer is going to be to this question. Who do you think should be the Jaguars coach in 2022 if it's not Urban Meyer?

Oh, I could name a half dozen guys. Anybody who's given me offensive coach du jour and see if it works out a little bit better with Trevor Lawrence, I think you have to find another solution here because like you said, you only have so many years. You only have so many years to get this right and figure this out. And you just cannot waste another one because I do think he's going to be pretty good. I think he has a chance to be pretty good. And watching that team right now is horrifying. He's not the problem with that football team.

I mean, like, he's, he's making mistakes because he's a rookie and it happens. But, like, he's not like, like, he is still making good throws. He is, you know, he's still capable. It's not like he looks totally lost. He just looks like he doesn't have any support. You talk about teams that have squandered draft picks. I mean, they traded Jalen Ramsey. Another point for the Rams in this argument.

What they got in the Ramsey trade and just the way they've used their resources overall here over the last couple of years is a nightmare. You talk about a team without a lot of pieces to build around or guys. You'd say, oh, yeah, that's a foundational piece of what we're building here. Who are those guys for the Jaguars? The whole of you have Jamal Agnew, who has been really good this year. You know what? That is one thing I have to give Irmaier some credit for. He was determined to find kind of a gimmicky, gadgety playmaker in the draft.

whether it be Cadarious Tony or Travis E.T.N. And guess what? They found one in Jamal Agnew. So that is a point for the Jaguars in this whole conversation. Yes. It's only cost them a first-round pick. The removal of Livisca-Shanalt from like every excited fantasy person's list of top young whiteouts. It's just, it's so sad. Tamon Austin. Tamen Austin's actually on this team. Wow. So I guess they have a backup in case Jamal Agnew gets hurt. That's an important piece. That's a position on this team right now. I went with Washington just because I thought that they would be, I didn't think they'd be necessarily the best defense in the league. We know how volatile defense is. But with the amount of talent that they had on defense,

I still expected them to be a top 10 defense. I thought they would have had so many good players on that side of the ball that it'd be hard to screw that up. And they have managed to screw that up. them being a bottom three-four defense to me is the most surprising thing about this entire year because even if that stuff ping pongs between seasons, I still thought with the front that they had and even with the player, the guys like Cam Curl and going to get William Jackson and just Bobby McCain's like a real NFL player. I expected them to be a professional NFL defense with a lot of talent and that has not happened. And on offense, I expected them to be maybe average,

a little bit below average with Ryan Fitzpatrick. That becomes complicated when he gets hurt. But I just never expected this version of this Washington team, even if I didn't think that they would be a contender or anything this year. It's crazy. I mean, like, you look at the numbers for them. I had it in my column last week. This doesn't include this most recent game. But they're like on first and second down, I think they're fourth in the NFL and EPA per play on defense.

And on third town, they're like one of the worst defenses of the last 10 years, which is so weird. That has to come back to Earth a little bit, right? It has to come back to Earth a little bit. And it's so weird because like if before the year I told you, hey, where is why is why? Washington going to be good this year. You'd be like, oh, on third down because they have great pass rushers and a ton of pieces in the secondary. And that's where they're horrific this season.

It is a reminder that football is very strange and difficult to predict. It feels like this is a long way of looking at this. But with those numbers, if you said that to me, that feels like a defense that's going to be better next year than we expect it to be after their performance this year. Right? For sure. Which that doesn't do Washington fans. good right in this moment when they expect it to be good this year. But God, what a weird, weird team.

All right. Let's go a little bit the other direction. What is the team that has surprised you the most this year in a good way? I would say the Bengals. I mean, I would say especially on the defensive side of the ball. I mean, they're sixth in scoring defense so far this year. They've looked genuinely good for stretches. I know they just allowed 34 points to Mike White and the Jets. Well, listen, that There's no shame in that. Mike White can play. We'll get to Mike White later on in this podcast. But like, you know, I don't think anybody was expecting much out of this defense.

You kind of figured, okay, they've invested a bunch in free agency. They've brought in a bunch of starters, you know, but Trey Wayans had him played at all last year. DJ Reader got hurt last year. Trey Hendrickson was a guy who I didn't think they honestly should have signed given the price tag he got. But it's working. I mean, Chdow Wusee is playing well. Hendrickson has been great. Like, I've been 100% wrong about.

Trey Hendrickson. He has been a difference maker for them up front. Larry Oaken Jobby's been good. Sam Hubbard has flashed. Jesse Bates, one of the more underrated guys in the league is still playing at a high level. They just like, like they have these pieces and they're getting the most out of each of the guys they have. Someone like Eli Apple, who's bounced around the league, has been kind of, you know, shunts it away whenever he's been given an opportunity for any extended touch of time is playing well as a starting corner for this football team. And I think that, you know, if you'd ask me to predict whether they were going to finish in DVA before the year, I would have guessed 25, 26. I said 20 before the year. Yeah, and like they're a legit,

like, they're not, I don't think they are a great defense, but they are a good enough defense that the offense can win games. And certainly, we've seen the upside this offense has. They can certainly score at a high level. And I think this is a, you know, I don't know how that division is going to break down just because it's so tough and there's going to be, you know, so many things happening at the vision in the weeks to come, but like this is a legit playoff team. And that's, I expected them to be better,

but they're beyond what I was expecting heading into the year. Yeah, I feel really similarly. I thought they'd be, let's say the 20th best defense in the league, because they just lacked difference makers in my mind. They spent all this money and they made all these changes and they signed all these guys.

And then you look at the starting 11 and even some of the depotent's like, okay. There's not that many guys you get excited about. But to me, it's been an argument in favor of a defense that doesn't have a ton of holes. They don't have superstars, but they don't really have any glaring needs either. And I think part of that is somebody like Eli Apple playing better than expected. Somebody like Chedobie Ouzier playing much better than expected.

And they've been deployed in the right way, right? I mean, their game plan against the Ravens was really smart. I think they've been a really difficult defense to prepare for. They've been unpredictable. And they've been fun to watch. They're definitely in the conversation for me. I'm curious, you mentioned the AFC North being really tough. what do you think if you were kind of picking that division right now

which teams from that division do you think make the playoffs I'm mostly curious about your take on the Browns right now Baltimore is going to make the playoffs although their defense is quietly bad which is very strange I don't understand it like writing about the AFC North actually from my column this week on ASPN.com and I think the Ravens last 22 years they've been in the top 10 defensive DVOA 20 times

that's insane and they're like 20th in DVOA on defense this year. But I still think they're good enough to make the playoffs. I think the Bengals will also make the playoffs. I don't think the Steelers make the playoffs. I don't think the Browns will make the playoffs. I don't want to keep plugging the articles I write for ESPN.com, but like before the year, I wrote, hey, the Browns are a good football team that had a lot of luck and close games last year.

I don't think that's going to happen again. They were very healthy, especially along the offensive line. and that has not been the case this year. Baker Mayfield really flourishes behind a good offensive line, and I'm worried he's going to struggle if the offensive line is not as effective in 2021. There we go. And I think the schedule is going to be tougher. And I think all those things have contributed to where the Browns are.

You know, they're a good football team. Like, I think they're better from snap to snap than they were for the majority of last season's play. But they haven't been quite as lucky, and they haven't been quite as healthy. when that happens, like even if you're a better football team, you're not going to get the same results. So I think, you know, it has to be frustrating because I think we can see how close they are to being a great team. But last year they were a about an average team with very good luck. And this year, I think they're a good team with below average luck. Yeah.

I think that sends you back to the drawing board a little bit if you're the Browns this off season. You know, you have expectations. I think more so just the Brown's fan base in terms of expectations. I don't think their front office and their coaching staff. I don't think it's necessarily that much of a pivot for them. I mean the people who told me that I was, who called me names and made fun of how I looked because I suggested that Baker Mayfield was not as good of a quarterback as Justin Herbert or Deshaun Watson. Yeah, those exact people.

We're wrong. And that's kind of the question you asked. It's like, all right, we are close. They're going to bring back most of this core next year. They have a lot of these players. They're going to be a good team for the next couple years. or have a really nice collection of talent for the next couple of years. So I think you ask yourself a question of, all right, what should we do at quarterback?

What are the last couple things we can do to finish this off? So it's for a team and a fan base, I think that really wanted this year to be the year they took the leap. Maybe it's a little bit disappointing. But I think you're right. I think they are still pretty close and it's going to be an interesting 12 months for them. My team here is the Cardinals. I just did not expect their defense to be this good again. I think that it's been one of the more impressive units in the entire league,

just in how they've done this. You know, last year they had this man-heavy approach where they were sending all of this heat and they had this really weird approach up front because Chandler Jones was hurt. They didn't really have any top-end pass rushers. So they were deploying a son rhetoric in these weird ways and, you know, Dennis Gardek.

And it worked for them. They really patched it together in an impressive way. And this year, it's been slightly different. You know, you get Chandler Jones back. Obviously, JJ Watt has hurt now. But they've been playing a lot more zone in certain situations. and it's worked for them, and they've used kind of the odd players that they have in interesting ways.

They have a lot of athleticism at linebacker, and they've deployed that, and the ways they teach some of their corners about getting depth in certain situations, I've just been really, really impressed by how they've been a slightly different version of the defense they were last year, but still a very good defense. And I think that's a testament to that staff. I really do. Oh, for sure. I think Vince Joseph is very good at his job, and I think they have a lot of guys who are playing better.

I mean, Isaiah Simmons this time last year was barely playable from stop to stop. And now he's a good NFL linebacker. You know, they were going to move on from Jordan Hicks before this season. And they kept him and he's played very well. Granted, again, last week, linebackers did not have a great game against the Packers in the hole. I think it was Hicks that got driven back on, was it fourth and one or the touchdown? I can't remember now. But, you know, like, little stuff happens here and there.

But like, overall, they're flying around the field. That's what they do. They fly around. They really do. And the cornerbacks they had, which was going to be their big weakness, like, yes, who's the rookie? Marco Wilson, like, teams are going to target Marco Wilson and make plays. That's going to happen. You shouldn't be starting a rookie fourth round pick.

I think they should have gone out and gone on the corner here at the trade deadline. But, like, Robert Alford hasn't played in two years, three years, and he's fine. He's pretty good. Like, he's not great. Like, he's doing his job. And, like, there are teams that cannot even get back. with that. Byron Murphy's playing well.

Like, I think that's, you know, like, they look very professional. And if they can create a bunch of takeaways, that's all that offense needs. They don't have to be great. They just have to be good enough to, like, steal a drive or come up with a fourth down stop in the red zone or just give that offense a short feel because that's going to be enough to kind of push the game in the offense's favor. It's sometimes you look at some of the moves these teams make from the outside. It's got to be more complicated than that.

You know, they go get J.J. Watt and they go trade for Rodney Hudson, and they go get A.J. Green and draft Rondo Moore. And like, those are the moves they make offensively. It's like, all right, you know, if we get a stabilizing force in Rodney Hudson, it'll help our pass protection. If we get kind of a gadgety guy in Rondell Moore, it allows us to have those yak opportunities that we really didn't have over the last couple of years because it's a skill set that we were missing.

And if Kyler gets healthy, that's enough. And James Conner is a nice compliment to Chase Edmonds. I think, oh, I guess so. And then it all worked. That vision of the team has come to be. And I think that it's just, I didn't expect that. I did not expect it to be that easy. I don't know what they look like.

We'll get to this a little bit later. I don't know how it looks for the rest of the season, but I think over the first half, they have surprised me the most. Yeah, I agree. All right. What is one prediction or one take from before the year that you would like back or that you'd like a redo on?

When do we get to talk about when I'm right once in a while? That's never going to happen. Sorry, bud. Prediction you did wrong. Team you were most wrong about it. I mean, the dolphins are the Jags. Like, I thought they were both going to win their division, and they are combined, like, one in 37.

So either of those teams qualifies for me. I wish I would have been higher on the Cowboys. Yeah, I could see how that would make sense. This spring, I wrote about how it was strange to me that we weren't talking about them more. It was, and it made sense, right? I mean, they had not made a lot of noise in the offseason. The DAC contract was done, so there was no more drama around that. But when I was looking at them,

coming into the year, I think both of us picked them to be the number one team in the NFC last season, right? I believe that's true. So I picked them to be the best team in the NFC last season. And coming into this season, when I was looking at everything, I was like, are they really that much different than the team I picked to win the NFC last year? I think their offense has a chance to be really, really good with DAC and a couple tweaks schematically.

Let's see, obviously the health law and the offensive line was a question, but I still thought they had the pieces to be really good on. offense, I had no faith in the defense. And defense we know is really hard to predict. It's really difficult to pin down a team that can just get some breaks defensively. And that's what they've done. They've had a couple guys play better. And they've played a style of defense that I think lends to what they want to be.

It lends to the formula of this team to be aggressive and a little bit erratic and have pair that with an elite, elite offense. So I just wish I would have believed more in how I saw. saw that team from a year ago because not that much had changed. I think you say a couple of guys are playing better on defense when Tronon Diggs has gone from being like an okay corner to being like that certainly helps. Like like prime Diclobo. He was one of my breakout players coming into the season.

I thought he would be really good. And I still did not pick this team to be good. And it frustrates me just because I really did believe in what the offense could look like. I was just so disheartened and disappointed by how static everything felt even with Dak on the field for the first month of last season. I was like, man, I just thought they'd be more exciting than this. And then this year, this is the offense I wanted them to look like under Callan Moore.

So it's maybe a little bit of revisionist history, but I just wish I would have believed in them more coming into the season. You know what really bothers me about last year with some hindsight now? They started Ben Danucci and Garrett Gilbert when they had Cedric freaking Wilson and his cannon of an arm on the roster. Are we going to talk about Cadarius Tony being. the best quarterback on the count of the Giants right now. That was an easy flip he had last night.

Did you hear what they were saying before the end of the first half? He could throw the ball 70 yards. He could throw the ball 70 yards. And like it was common knowledge around the team that he would be a better quarterback for a Hail Mary for the Giants, if not for the fact that he would be the one who would have to catch the Hail Mary on the other side. That's definitely what you want. It's a really good sign for your football team.

What a incredible football team. The Neary Giant Service. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, certainly I have not seen the defense creating as many takeaways. The offense, you know, getting back all the injured offensive linemen, getting back. And you would presume, I mean, I don't think you could actually play all 17 games, but at least 14 or 15 games after five or six games last year. Absolutely.

I mean, I think I expected them to be better. I did not expect them to be six and one. and I probably should have been more optimistic about their chances. The other thing I will say, even beyond the offensive line staying healthy, Tyron Smith playing like this, he had not been playing like this, even when he was on the field. For those guys to be elite, elite players, so I'm going to get to a couple more of those guys as we get to some of these awards, but I do think there were aspects of this that were harder to predict than others, even if I was bullish on the offense overall.

All right, what to you has been the most confounding aspect of this season through the first eight weeks? just the thing that you found the most confusing about the NFL at large. I wish I had saved my Giants headset joke for this one. Sorry. I mean, it's the Chiefs. Like, I think just seeing the Chiefs with all the same pieces we had last year and on paper, a much better offensive line than the line they had for most of the past couple seasons, just not be able to figure it out.

And, like, yes, I know I wrote about it. I think everyone on every website has a right a what's wrong with the Chiefs piece. And we all kind of came to the same conclusion. It's like, hey, they're incredible on offense, but they keep turning the football over. And yet, we saw that happen again against the Giants on Monday night. We've seen it now for several weeks, and this is a team that has turned the ball over now more frequently in the 2020-season than they have over, I think, the entirety of most of the Andy Reed-era seasons in Kansas City. Like, theoretically, we should know this is in the range of outcomes for any great offense. but actually seeing it happen and play out in real life is so confusing and so just bizarre because

they're really good but they're also just they can't get out of their own way and that's happening week after week after week and at some point you have to question like okay like in my head I know this should change I know that this shouldn't be the same I know that they're really good but like when is that switch going to flip yeah it's it's more complicated than But I think, we talked about it on the last week's show with Mitch and Seth Galina tweeted out today. Their offenses faced, I think, 50 to 60 more snaps this season than any other offense in the league of teams rushing for and playing too deep coverage. And that's what teams are doing. And teams have done that in the past, right?

I mean, it's, this isn't the newest thing in the world. But it does feel like a microcosm of a larger conversation we had a lot on the show coming into the year. As teams play more of this way, as teams set, we're going to sit back and, too deep and we're going to make you move the ball down the field. Sure. Do you get bored and do you make a mistake? And the chiefs have gotten bored and they've made a lot of mistakes. It does feel.

Do you watch the game last night? Yes, I did. So there was a play where the ESPN commentators who I think do a very good job, Lewis Fridick and Brian Greasy and Steve Levy, of course, were breaking down the two deep coverage. And it was Holmes throwing a pass in the flat to Daryl Williams and Greasy was drawing on the, you know, on the. screen on the Telestrator, like, basically like, okay, look, this is all covered. This is all covered.

You have to check it down to Daryl Williams in the flat. Daryl Williams is wide open. And there's nobody near him. It's an easy 10 yards on first and 10. And like, Greasy's right. Like, yes, they are taking away that stuff. But like, it tells us how twisted our sort of feelings are about the Chief's offense simultaneously that we're like, okay, like, it's weird that they have to just take this easy, free first down that, you know, the Jets would kill for. this easy of a first down. The Jaguars would kill for this easy of a first down and yet like 10 yards for the chiefs almost isn't enough. Like we need to get more out of them than the easy, obvious play. And I think you're 100% right. Like the boring thing for the

chiefs and the thing that's available for the chiefs is not going to excite us. It's not going to excite Patrick Mahomes. But like that's what's there. And they can do that at a high level as long as they want until teams adapt. And teams, they haven't done it at a high enough level or frequent enough level yet. that teams have felt like they've needed to adapt and sort of go back and try and take that stuff away. It was the most fascinating part of this offseason for me where the conversations I had about this subject with coaches around the league. And so many people, every single person I talked to, every single one, offensive coach, defensive coach, mentioned the word patience. And where they talked about this kind of staring contest that was going to exist between NFL offenses and NFL defenses as more of the teams around the league started playing this defense.

style. And it really is an experiment. It is trying to play into the impulsivity and ambition of the people that you're going against. And when you're Patrick Mahomes and any throw is on the table for you, you're literally making shit up in real time to see what you can do, no look passes and all of this wild stuff. It's really, really difficult to do what is boring. And that's what's happening. And I just find it so, so interesting to watch it play out. It's so strange. All right. Mine is not nearly, I think that's the right answer.

To me, it's just trying to figure out which weakness of these AFC teams matter more than the others. Because as we look at the hierarchy of AFC teams, I can't figure that out. It's like, all right, do the Ravens concerns in the secondary matter more than some of the boring stuff the Bengals do offensively? and the Titans don't have any corners, but does that part of it and just trying to parse the way the packing order and the AFC should be and why,

you can throw darts. I have no idea how it's going to shake out and I still don't know after thinking about it for the last like four days straight. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's so difficult. And I think so much where it comes down to, who are you playing, when are you playing them,

what's the field conditions like? Who's hurt? Who's not hurt? You sound like Bill Belichick. I'm going to give one of those bill-ball check answers that lasts like 90 seconds and doesn't say anything of substance. And yet people think it's like a really insightful answer because it's long. No, I will not do that. But like, like, I agree.

I mean, I think, you know, the Ravens are really struggling to tackle right now. And like, that's going to matter if you're playing the Chiefs and the Chiefs are doing all, you know, throwing all flat routes and drag routes and RPO's. Like, because Travis Kelsey will break four tackles and go for a 45-yard touchdown. Like, he did against them earlier this year. If the chiefs can't hold up in coverage for four seconds, well, the bills are going to destroy them. The Ravens might not be as effective on offense if that's the case. I think those weaknesses really come down to who you're playing because I think certain teams are going to be able to exploit those weaknesses more than other teams in the AFC.

I agree. And the specificity of that, I think, speaks to how jumbled it really is and just how bunched up those teams really are. All right. What to you is the most important lesson that you have learned through the first eight weeks of the season, just about the league in general, I guess. This was tough. I would just say anything's possible.

Like, I think we get so caught up from week to week in terms of, okay, well, this is the new definition for this team. And I think the Jets have been the team that taught me this lesson strangely. The Titans lose to the Jets, and then they beat the Chiefs and they beat the Bills. The Bengals beat the Ravens by like 24 points. They blow them out. They're celebrating. It's in Baltimore.

And then they lose to the Jets the following week. The Jets have managed to be two of the best teams in the AFC and have lost every other game they've played this year. Like, I try to be cautious and take a longer view of what's happening than I think maybe the public does. And sometimes that's good, sometimes that's bad. But I really feel like it's important to keep that in mind, maybe more so than I give myself credit. I typically do because I feel like, you know, you can't just write literally anything off from week to week. And it's, it makes it tough to be a like prognosticator or someone who wants to seem smart. But it is a fun product to watch.

It is. It has made the season inherently more interesting. And I've enjoyed that. There are no truly elite teams, especially in the AFC. And I think it's going to make for an inherently watchable second half of the season. Yes. All right. Mine kind of goes back to what you said about the Packers earlier in the show. To me, the most important thing I've learned, and I guess I've known it in the past, but it's been really stark this year,

is that you better have more than one way to win, especially on offense. You better have more than one thing that you can go to. And the Rams to me are another good example, right? The Rams for the last few years have been very specific on offense. They've done this one thing, and it was incredible at the start, and then the diminishing. return started over the last couple seasons. And they understood that and they made a big change as a result. And now we just see what this offense is with Matthew Stafford and what they can be.

And I think if you look at teams all around the league, the best teams, the teams that I feel are the most dangerous. They can beat you in so many different ways on offense. The Cowboys can just run the ball down your throat if they want to. They can spread it out if they want to. The Cardinals, I feel like, kind of fall into this category simply because Kyra Murray can make something happen. Lamar is the same way. They can make these plays outside of structure and just do things outside of whatever the specific box of their offense is. And that to me is in contrast to a team like the Browns right now. I love the Brown's offense. I love watching the Brown's offense.

To me, it's one of the coolest versions of football and the way they all tie it together in the play action game and the run game. But that's the only way they can win right now. And when they're not allowed to be themselves when they have to play left-handed, they don't have any answers. And I think that gap between the teams that can do it a bunch of different ways and are flexible and the teams that aren't, that gap to me is so, so apparent right now. It's been the thing that's kind of been in the back of my mind the most as I've watched this season so far. As you were saying that, I was just thinking about the Steelers and trying to think if they

have one way to win games on offense. I know they're four and three, but like, do you mean the browns yes like i i sort of made a sarcastic aside and their passing game has been a real problem this year but like yes they are great running the ball and that's fun to watch but you're right i mean like at the end of the day like i think there is a like like i think because you have this diversity of style and diversity of approach on on defense like you're going to have to try and do something different i think at some point throughout that's too good defense has just gotten too good

and they're just too smart and I feel like defensive football is at a high level right now in the NFL because of how slanted the game is in favor of offense I think they're more flexible than they've been in the years past. Yes. And I think the offenses have to be more flexible

as a result of that. And if you don't have that flexibility, to me it shows up. And I think I've thought about that a lot over the first half of the year. All right, we can go through this one quickly. I'm just curious because it's been such a topic of conversation.

I wanted to hit this in some way. Who is the first or second year quarterback in the league that you would buy stock in right now? Does Mike White count? Yes, Mike White counts. Because he's not, he's technically, I think it says his third year, fourth year in the NFL. Isn't he like 26 years old? He is 26 years old. That is correct.

A man who has before his victory over the Jets, for the Jets over the Bengals had not played quarterback, I believe, since the 2017 season. So a man who was waiting for his moment and delivered. No, I said Justin Herbert. Like, I'm not saying that I wouldn't be interested in Joe Flacco or anybody else. I think Trevor Lawrence is going to be fine. But like Justin Herbert, even though he struggled against the Patriot yesterday, like just looks so good as a quarterback. Like, I think he has the prettiest ball in football right now. And I think he is someone who can make every throw.

He makes generally smart decisions, although he's still improving. at that factor. Like, I think he has made so many strides over the guy we sort of expected coming out of school that I feel like he would be the person I would choose. I think so, too. It's obviously in a rough couple weeks. And I think his stock is maybe a little bit more expensive than somebody like Trevor Lawrence's is right now.

So it's kind of a cheap answer. But I would still probably say Justin Herbert as well. I mean, you didn't ask me to give like a complicated or difficult answer. I know. I should have made it a little bit more complicated, but that's okay. All right. Let's cruise to these awards. Comeback player of the year.

Who do you have? I mean, like, it's too obvious to pick back, right? But it has to be. He's going to win. It has to be back. But let me ask you a different question about my second pick. But my second pick is Derwin James. Yeah, that's a great answer.

But I have a question for you about Derwin James. So with hindsight, I'm going to assume the Seahawks would not make the Jamal Adams trade again. I think you know where I'm going with this. If you are a similar team in similar circumstances and the Chargers decided, hey, we don't want to give Derwin James a enormous extension to be the highest paid player in football at safety, would you make the Jamal Adams trade for Derwin James? No. No.

I don't think there's any. He's really good, though. I was about to say that I don't think there's any non-quarterback in the league that's worth two first round picks and a contract extension. And I say this as somebody who has lived and lived through the Kalilman trade and has come out the other side. I think Jalen Ramsey might be an exception simply because of the way that a cornerback can flip the math for you defensively.

But I still think I'm comfortable saying that. I don't think right now any defensive player is worth that. You don't think Darwin James flips the math for you defensively? Hmm? You don't think Darwin James flips the math? for you on defense? Not just, I think the way the things you can do in coverage with a corner to me are different than the things you can do with a safety.

Mm-hmm. Okay. Fine. Why would you do it? Trade two first-round picks. Yeah, you definitely wouldn't do it. Do I have seven of them? Yes. If not, we're holding on to our picks.

Yeah. I really don't, again, I've changed my tune on this with a little bit more wisdom and a little bit more time. I don't think there's any defensive player or any non-quarterback that's worth that. We've got a perfectly good Derwin James at home, sweetie. We don't need to get Derwin James in the trade market here. All right. Offensive rookie of the year. This one's interesting to me. Is it? Why? Because I think it's a conversation. Do you think it's a conversation because you think it's Chiefs Guard, Trace Smith? No. Because I was thinking you might pick him.

No, but I do have another offensive live and then I'm going to mention here. Is it Rashon Slater? Yes. I mean, like, he's really good. Like, I wouldn't fault you. But I don't think he's part of that. I don't think he's a real conversation. Well, I think Jamar Chase is going to win if he keeps doing this.

But I feel like if we really gave it to the best offensive player, best offensive rookie in comparison to the other players at his position, it would and should be a conversation between Jamar Chase and Rashon Slater. I mean, like, like, I, I, Rishon Slater is playing really well. would not fault people for making this argument on an academic level. But like, there's no reality where Rishan Slater, even if he should win, is going to win offensive rookie of the year. I know. And that's sad. It is sad. I agree. That's why I wanted to mention him. But like, Jamar Chase, like, I don't know where you rank him in terms of the actual wide receivers, rookie status aside. But like, I don't think he's number one. But, I mean, he's pretty freaking high after his first half season in terms of like guys I would choose for one game on my team

to be an NFL wide receiver like he's he's in the top 10 to me yeah and I think he deserves to me in the top 10 but I also think Rishon Slater has been one of the 10 best tackles in the league if not a little bit higher that's why I think he deserves mention there that's it all right defensive rookie of the year I would imagine Michael Parsons is going to win I don't know that he would be my pick though who would be your pick I I would say maybe Eric Stokes I think Eric Stokes has played very well for the Packers, given that he's a rookie cornerback where the bar is like impossibly low. I think to be a little bit of a homer,

Azizzo Jolari has been really good for the Giants. For, you know, given that my expectations for Giants players, Ryan Shaft picks are very low as well. How do you feel about the Giants defense? It feels like they're coming on to me. Like they were disappointing to me for the first month of the season, especially. It seems like they're kind of settling in right now. I mean, they, you know, they did just allow like 38 points to the Rams two weeks ago.

So like that's okay. The two game sample you have there is the Panthers who they played well against the Panthers, but also they're the Panthers. It's Sam Darnold and the Chiefs where I think the Chief's problems are of their own making more so than the Giants defense. So if they play well against the Raiders, you know, I'll be optimistic. If they play well against the Bucks after the buy, I'll be very optimistic. but I think they're about an average defense, and I think they're going to improve a little bit as the year goes on. That's fair.

Okay. I think Michael Parsons is the answer. He has 24 pressures on 125 past rush naps. That's a ridiculous rate. What would you, like knowing what you know now about Michael Parsons, what would you do with him if you were the Cowboys? In what sense? Like, what's his long-term role on this roster?

I think the role that he's in right now, where it's kind of a hyper role where you can use him in a bunch of different ways. I think especially in a world where more teams are transitioning to these odd fronts where it's a little bit more nebulous and we don't really know who's coming and where you're going to line guys up. I think that flexibility and that kind of air of unpredictability is really important in modern defense. And I think that he fills that role really well. Yeah. I mean, I think if you get creative, you can get a lot out of Micah Parsons. And I think it depends on your coordinator.

Like I trust certain guys to get more creative with really talented players and others. But I think, you know, I think you can be valuable as a traditional linebacker. I think you can be valuable as an edge rusher. Like I think if you're creative and you find spots for me in each role, I think you'll get more out of him. And I think that it seems like so far the Cowboys have found, you know, ways to make that work for them. I totally agree. All right. This is not an award in the NFL.

I kind of wish it was. Yeah. Who would you say is the most improved player in the league this year? Okay. I have a bunch of guys here, but the one I picked, if we have the same guy, I'm hanging up and ending the show. Because I feel like I plucked someone from, to me, at least, relative obscurity for most improved player. I want to hear yours first, actually. No, now I have to hear yours first.

No, I want to, please. I want to hear yours first because I'm going to be very upset if we pick the same guy. I picked Terrence Steele. I did not pick Terrence Steele. God, damn it. I mean, like, he has been a lot better, though. he's been so much better. I mean, he was somebody that was a real problem,

and just the work he clearly put it in the offseason and what he was able to do for them, and the fact that they lost Lyle Collins and did not miss a beat, and now his playing playing so well that they feel like it's worth sticking with him at right tackle. What a testament to that guy. I mean, that is really, really impressive in my mind.

Yeah, I mean, you know, they could have put Ty and Seki in there. Yes, I expected them to. When coming into the season, And it was funny. I was at Cowboys training camp. And I was having a conversation with some of who covers a team. And I was like, yeah, you know, I felt like they needed to make an investment at that swing tackle spot. It had been a problem for them in years past when they've had injuries there.

They went and got Tynaseki. And the person I was talking to was like, I don't know. I think that Terrence Steele might be that guy this year if somebody gets hurt. And then he was and then he played really well. So good on Terrence Steele. Yeah, full credit to him. I had some other guys as like, you know, runners up. I had Harold Landry, who's been really good for Tennessee.

Max Crosby, who I think is taking a lead bar. Yeah, I would say Nassir Adderly for the Chargers. Javon Hargrove, who I mean was good in years past, but really was not very good for the Eagles. Last year is Dawson Knox came to mind for me, you know, as a guy who was basically like, oh, we need to replace him. And now he has looked like a viable tight end one before the injury. The guy I have is Jonathan Greenard of the Houston Texans, who has a. has seven sacks in six games for the Texans.

And like you watch him. You could have been safe that I would not have had that one. And you watch him and like it's kind of impressive. Like he's chasing down Kyler Murray for two sacks. He's, you know, like shoving down Mo Alley Cox and chasing down Carson Wentz. He's like he's doing legit stuff. It's been impressive. And I, you know, like there's not a lot of bright spots for the Texans this year,

especially young bright spots who they have on. their contract for years to come. And I don't think he is going to be Miles Garrett when it comes to his pass rushing production, but like finding a good rotational pass rusher for a guy who was not really part of the defense last year, like, you'll take it. And really, I just wanted to see if we would pick the same guy. You're safe there, buddy. All right, this, I had a hard time with this one.

Executive of the year, who would you give it to? I had a very hard time with this one. My answer, I don't feel good about it. My answer was Jerry Jones? Like, like very quizzically. Like, I don't know who you would pick. I gave it to Duke Tobin. Oh, hmm.

And I don't feel great about that. So this award is always kind of strange just because it really rewards short-term investments and some of those moves that make you better in the short-term aren't necessarily great moves in the long-term. But if you look at the moves that the Bengals made, right? We just talked about Jamar Chase. drafting Jamar Chase, huge win. He's been very, very good for that. The Awusier contract, he's 30th, an average cornerback salary on that deal.

It's like $7 million a year. That's not a bad deal. You'll make that deal. You talked about how good Trey Hendrickson has been. Riley Reef is a stopgap right tackle. I think he's 20th in cap hit among right tackles this year. Getting a functional player at that spot is really, really important. They did that this year.

I don't know how these moves are going to impact the Bengals long, long term. But I think that the contributions they've gotten from all of the guys they added this off season to me in total is the best. Those are the best returns of any team in my opinion. Who do you think would win if there was a vote today? I really don't know. I think Steve Kheim would win. He's also on my list. I don't know, man.

Like, it sort of depends on what you want to reward, right? Like, I think Duke Tobin, I think the biggest thing for Duke Tobin is that he chose to Mar Chase over Pena Sewell. And it's not, which I respect Sewell. Like, that was a controversial pick. And, I mean, so far, Chase looks like he was not a bad selection by any means. Yeah, it's, I don't think there's any obvious good answer. I also think you could make an argument for less sneed just for the Stafford trade alone.

Yeah, I mean, like, but like, you know, like, it's the internet, like, not the internet, but people, the internet, it's easy to trade multiple first-round picks in the future. It is. It definitely, yes. And it earned Brian Pace an executive of the year award. And, like, that's great. And I think Lesneed is, you know, they have a plan. And I think their plan is working.

And I can't take no issue with that. But, like, you know, I think there have been other teams where I pick Brandon Bean probably before Lesnade, even though the, the Rams have a better record. So, Brandon Bean, I thought about that as well. What move of the bills do you think, what does that for you? I think bringing as many guys back as they did. Like, I know that the, the bucks got credit for that, and they deserved credit for that, given how many other pieces they brought back. But, like, they were able to bring back pretty much everyone they wanted this year on that roster.

And I think that is, you know, for a team that was, was, had the risk of splintering, I feel like that's pretty impressive. And the contracts they had given out, like, yes, you pay Josh Allen a ton of money, yes, you pay Matt Milano a lot of money. But routinely those contracts have come in a little lower than I think I would have expected. And I think that's a testament to how they've been able to get people to buy in within that organization. I think that's fair. And I think even some of the moves they made, going to get Emmanuel Sanders, he's been really good for them. Greg Rousseau has been a nice piece for their defense.

I think that makes sense. To me, if you're looking at just guys that were added this year, I think the bank did a good job to fill a lot of holes. They've gotten more out of those guys than I expected them to. Yeah, for sure. All right. Coach of the year. I alluded to this earlier.

I think I'd pick LaFleur. I would have no issue with, like, a half dozen other guys. Like, I don't think it's clearly anybody, but I would go with LaFleur. I'd pick Sean Payton. Yeah. I mean, like, would you pick Peyton and Mickey Loomis for executive of the year? Or do you think it's more about coaching with the guys they have as opposed to bringing in the coaching with the guys they have?

I definitely think it's a coaching with the guys that have. You know, Coach of the Year is tough because you can't give it to a staff. But if I was picking an assistant coach of the year, Dennis Allen would be in that conversation. And what he's done with that defense. I mean, I think they have a chance to be the best defense in football over the second half of this season. They're only getting healthier. And they're still really good. They're already really good.

Who? Like, this is the whole other podcast in terms of trades we would have wanted to happen. Like, I don't understand why the Saints didn't trade for Teddy Bridgewater. at the trade deadline if the Broncos are willing to basically sell Von Miller for $9 million. I don't wonder what they're going to do at quarterback. Is it going to be Taysam Hill or is it going to be Trevor Simmy for the rest of the year? Taysam Hill for, I mean, 10 games, like, you know, or for 10 games plus a possible playoff run. I mean, I like Trevor Simian.

Like, I think he is a, I think he's like the 42nd best quarterback in football. But, I mean, I'll tell you what, if they go like six and four or seven and three in the second half, I think this Sean Payton should have been coach of the year. I totally agree. I mean, I think them being in the mix right now, being five and two with how hurt they've been and all the guys that they've had missed time over the first half of the season, I think what they've done is really impressive. All right. Defense player of the year. I think it has to be Trevon Diggs. like I know that I think there is this like presentation of him because of those two plays against the Patriots where he had the pick six and then the long touchdown right afterwards as treating him like he's Marcus Peters or somebody and like not to say Marcus Peters is a bad player but just like he's not like guessing a ton and getting beat a ton like even on that play I'm not sure he was the person who blew that coverage that it was his fault like I think it was the combination of of you know him getting aggressive and the safety uh over the top not making a tackle behind it and sort of getting lost between you know going for

for the football and trying to break it up or making a tackle. So, I mean, like, it's hard to be as valuable as Trevon Diggs has been as a non-quarterback. He's, as the closest defender in coverage this year, has generated 32.7 expected points for the Cowboys. Like, that's like, like, a quarterback can do that, and a good quarterback can do that in a half season. That's pretty much it. I mean, it's, like, yes, it is not something that's sustainable for the long term, but just given how he's played over the first half,

like as good as Miles Garrett is, as good as Miles Garrett has been, like he's not getting the Browns a possession of game. Like, that's just not possible for a defender unless you're doing what Trevondays has done. So I think to me, it's just on pure value. Like, it's hard to argue. It's a really good argument.

I had Miles Garrett just because of the play-in and play out in. He's great. And just he leads the league in sacks. He leads a league in Pass Rush, Wing, right? He leads the league and pressures. I mean, every single down, he's just ruining people. And so it's not at the sack total is, it's earned. Every bit of it is earned.

That's what he has been this year. But the 32 EPA is insane. Like, like, if he had forced seven fumbles and the bronze had recovered seven fumbles, and they got seven possessions, you would say, man, that's crazy. And, but that's, that's what Trevon Diggs has done. Like, like, if you're, if you're getting your offense, which, by the way, that offense is incredible, an extra possession per game, or I think he has a pick six as well. He has the Patriots.

Does he have two? You might have two. So like, like, you know, if you're scoring it outright or setting your offense up with the short field, like I think the number side of me just says that it's impossible for anybody else in defense, even as good as Malascare it is, to be at that level. So to me, I think John thinks it's the guy. You swayed me. I think you're right.

I think you're right. I know I'm right. That's my conversation. MVP. I have no idea. I like like it's so hard I pick my homes after week four and that seems stupid and naive now

I had Tom Brady before last week and I think Tom Brady's going to be fine but like you know he turned the ball over three times or yeah three times in that game like that's going to drag you down a bit I would say now it's probably Matthew Stafford but like I think it chances from week to week for me I think I think

it depends on what, I mean, we have this conversation so often, what you mean by MVP. Like, I think the AP MVP right now, like the most valuable player award should probably go to Matthew Stafford because he's the quarterback of the best offense in the league. I think the guy who has been the most valuable to his team's success this season is Kyler Murray. I mean, I can't fault you for doing that. Like, I think, you know, he's turned the ball over a little. too frequently for me.

But I also would not blame you. Like he is the thing that makes that offense work. I think they would be pretty ordinary if it weren't for Kyler doing what he's able to do. That's my argument. That's totally defensible. Like I don't think that's unreasonable by any means. I had Tom Brady and Matthew Stafford, both on this list because I'm with you. I think it's really, really difficult.

Can you remember an MVP race that's been? and this muddled. Not because they change all the time, right? Mm-hmm. Over the second half of the season, they change every single year. But I can't remember sitting here at week eight doing this exercise, being like, I don't know,

and just throwing my hands up about who the MVP should be. It's tough. I don't remember from year to year, especially in like mid-season because stuff changes so quickly. Yeah, yeah. I mean, like two weeks ago, well, let me ask you this. If Derek Henry, obviously, it had not gotten hurt, but even after the last two weeks,

you had two kind of mediocre games, after week six, would Derek Henry have been your MVP? Probably not. I think Kyle Murray would have been my MVP after week six. I think I probably would have chose Kyler. But like, if that's not, if what Derek Henry did in that stretch, which by the way, prurates out over 16 games, not 17, over 16 games to 288 yards and 27 touchdowns on the ground. Like, if that's not going to win a running back MVP, like, is it even possible at this point?

I don't think it's possible at this point. I think you've answered your question. And like Trevon Diggs, like, if a cornerback ends up with 17 interceptions in a season, is it possible for a cornerback to win MVP? I still don't think so. It's crazy. Maybe it's 17 interceptions and like five pick, sixes, maybe. That's what he's on pace to do.

It is a very muddy picture and one that I think is a little bit different than most years past. Like, like, this stuff will get resolved. Like, like, an interview will come out. Yes, it definitely will be. A coach of the year will clear out and exactly what they will make, like, by the end of the year, we'll have more clarity on this stuff. Yeah, I think it is. They're fascinating conversations right now, though, because I do think that there are a lot

of guys bunched up in every single one of these. All right, buddy, that's all we got. It's always wonderful to chat with you. Where can the people read and listen to you? I don't know. ESPN.com, I think. On Twitter at Bill Barnwell, if I haven't blocked you. Mayace, thanks so much.

Always good to talk to you, bud. Talk to you soon. And guys, thank you. you very much for listening. We will be back tomorrow with Mitchell Schwartz and Lindsey Jones. So please come back and check that out. In the meantime, please rate and review the podcast on your podcast platform with choice. Also, please subscribe to the athletic, theathletic.com slash football show. I'm telling you, if you don't have a subscription, you want one. That's all we got. We'll see you guys tomorrow. Thanks for listening.

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