The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - NFL Mock Draft Scenarios: Picks 18 to 12

Episode Date: April 2, 2024

In the third installment of their 2024 NFL Mock Draft, Robert Mays and Nate Tice explore the choices awaiting the teams picking between 18 and 12 and what they could mean for the future of the Bengals, Jaguars, Seahawks, Colts, Saints, Raiders and Broncos.Follow Robert on Twitter: @robertmaysFollow Nate on Twitter: @Nate_TiceSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTube Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays. Join me today. It's my good friend Nate Tyson. How you doing, buddy? Doing very well. Today I learned that baby dentist's her thing.

I mean, it makes sense why they need them. But I just realized, you know, it's another thing that gets added to the appointment list. But do they need them? Because the health of those teeth doesn't seem that important. It's more about the gums, I believe. And it's the introduction. to make sure it's not a very scary thing. So I finished a baby disappointment,

open up the video, and I'm talking, I want to order a large farva right now. When I order, for anyone I can't see, Robert's Rock, Robert's rocking a monster mustache right now, and I love it. I love it. Not Movember for my dear Robert. It's Mayapril, for Robert.

So I will very quickly address this in terms of how we arrived at this moment. I haven't had a beard for a while. It had been a while since I had actually grown a beer. So there was no way to get to this intermediate step of having the mustache without having the beard first. So I had the beard and I was like, you know what? I'm going to try this because I'm just curious about how it's going to go. And I did.

And my wife liked it. So as soon as I got the stamp of approval where she's like, if you keep some of the stubble plus the mustache, she, in her mind, I've reached a point. I've reached an age. I'm 36 going on 37 now. Like I'm like a man. I'm not like a 24 year. old kid who has a mustache because it's funny. So I've reached a point where this is just like a grown man's facial hair, so I'm allowed to have it, which that's all I needed. And as soon as I

got the go ahead from her, I'm going to stick with it for a while because I actually do like it. Always people noticed yours. I grew in mind for six weeks. Not a single person said anything online or in person. So I was, I just shaved it with no fanfare, nothing. I was just like, all right, I guess I'm shaving that. So at least people noticed yours. The distance between your, Yours is thinner, and I think the distance between yours and the beard is just, it's going to be hard to notice. I'm sorry. I know, I grew the beard originally because I grew jowls when I was with the Falcons. I was very, I was very large.

That's when everyone started asking me. Used to play tackle, right? Or used to play De End? I was like, no, I was a quarterback. And that's when I was like, all right, I would start hiking three hours a day. And so I grew the beard. It's been a long journey trying to fill out that beard. But yeah, yeah, it's a little wispy.

It's always wispy and raggedy. Great start to the show today. Talk about whist me or rasp. I'm going to keep this for a while. The moment where I might take it off is for our live draft show that is happening in Detroit about three weeks from now.

Finally able to let it rip and tell people about that, it is official. We are doing a live draft show from Detroit, same way we have over the last two years. Me, you, Dan Bruegler, some special guests. We're going to go live

for the first round of the draft on Thursday, breaking down every single pick, reacting to every single pick, pick. Same deal on Friday for the second and third rounds. Same sort of schedule that we followed last year from Kansas City. Really, really excited to be on site where the draft is happening again and doing all that with you and Dane. One of my favorite things that we do every single year and just wanted to get it on people's radars as soon as possible now that it's official. We will be doing it again about three weeks from now live from Detroit, Michigan.

And it's kind of rock. It's a good one. So that's why you're growing up the mustache. It's for Tom Selling. So that's what it is. is, Magnum PI, because he always wore the Detroit hat, right? That's perfect. There, we nailed it. That's the connection. That's the segue to Detroit. I have to decide how professional or unprofessional it is, because this is a big moment. This is a big visual moment. When it's half podcast, half YouTube, I can kind of get away with it. But for the draft show, I think that I'm probably going to have to make a decision. And I know it's going to be a good studio setup because I can tell Alex is super fired up about the studio set up. So can't wait. Alex Hample, who does our video stuff?

We're hoping to keep building, you know, for you guys that remember, for you guys that have been with us for a while. Our first draft show that we did was me and Nate with two iPhones from a room at the courtyard by Marriott on Dearborn Street in Chicago. If you want to go back and find, you've started to pick 10. If you want to go back and find the visuals of that, you can. They are available on YouTube. Let's just say that incrementally the quality has improved over the last couple years. And we are hoping that that will continue this year. We're going to have some fun bells and whistles. Still working on those right now. But just again, I wanted to get it on your guys's radar as soon as possible that that is happening live from Detroit

night one and night two of the draft let's dig into some of the considerations on night one of the drafts for those of you who have followed the last couple of these shows we're continuing with our mock draft scenarios from round one last week we did picks it was 26 through 19 right those were them something around there 25 through 19 there's definitely through 19 the important part is we're starting with pick 18 today, and that is the Cincinnati Bengals. If you guys haven't listened to the previous iterations of the show, we're really just going through every single pick in the first round, breaking down team needs, which players might be available,

just talking through the process that you would follow if you were doing a mock draft. So that's what we're going to start off with today, and let's start with the Cincinnati Bengals, a roster that is in pretty darn good shape when you actually take a step back and look at it. What were your first couple needs as you were looking at where the Bengals sit right now? They went from one of my easiest teams to mock for, to mock draft for, to one a little bit more difficult as Free Agency went along. Damn, you, Shred Brown. I know.

They just kept adding little singles and doubles everywhere, like even like a Sheldon Rankins. You know, I was like, oh, okay, that took away that glaring need at defensive tackle. But it really came to what I think the Bengals it comes to is bridging this year with the next couple of years. Maybe post-T. Higgins, you know, paying Joe Burrow, paying Jamar Chase. So and really just offensive line because it's kind of some mercenaries. Some of the guys that kind of build around. It's this weird kind of makeshift. It's a good roster.

It's just a makeshift as far as timelines, which isn't the worst thing in the world. So when I first looked at it, it was offensive line and that's more of a splurge. That's like a tackle of the future to try to bridge it this year to the future years. Same with receiver slash Brock Bowers as a Tyler Boyd replacement because Bowers is a slot player. And that's just they want to reconfigure it. but they haven't done that. They're an 11 personnel team, but who knows? And then the other was defensive tackle or defensive line I put in general.

Those were the spots that kind of came to me, but it wasn't like where I was like, oh, automatic, that's the spot. It's more trying to find an argument for each one in a good way, I would say. Those are the four that I had, and it is the exact order that I had them in. Even Bowers? Even Bowers? So I had tight end. I had just tight end in general.

But yeah, I think the reason I put tight end on there was because I think that now we're getting into a range where it's worth mentioning Brock Bowers. If he were to fall to the Bengals, it would make a ton of sense for them to take Brock Bowers, really for the reason that you just said, beyond their need at tight end, they have a need for a slot receiver within this offense right now. They just don't have one. They signed Mike Asicki to a one-year, two-and-a-half million-dollar deal. Tanner Hudson is on a one-year deal, and Drew Sample signed a three-year contract this

off-season. Almost none of it is guaranteed. So there's nothing about their current tight-end room, even if it includes three guys, that should stop them from taking Brock Bowers if he's available right here and he falls that far. So I had that. I had offensive line. I had offensive tackle slash offensive line.

I think even after signing Trent Brown, he's on a one-year deal. And they could also improve, if they wanted to do a guard to tackle kind of apprenticeship program, they could also do that potentially in the same way a lot of those teams in the 20s that we discussed could look at.

Because Ted Karras is in the final year of his deal. So if they wanted to go, center, like a backup plan at center, and then I don't think Corda Vosota is preventing you from upgrading at left guard if you ultimately wanted to do that. So a bunch of different options along the offensive line, I think are right. If they wanted to go tackle because Trent Bonds only on a one-year deal, no issue with that, and receivers the same thing. If they wanted to draft somebody that would be a T. Higgins replacement down the line, if they wanted to draft somebody that was more of a slot player, Chase spent about 25% of his snaps in the slot last year, which was

the highest percentage of his career. So if they wanted to use him more inside this year, find a guy that could switch off with him just the way they built that room. So those are the three spots that I had, but I'm with you because this team is hard to pin down because they've mostly spent their early draft capital over the last couple of years on succession plans. They've had starters at each position, whether it's Miles Murphy, DJ Turner. I mean, the high picks that they've spent have been plans for the future. And I think the current state of their roster sets up well for that. It does. And that's why, again, it was just so hard for me to go, oh, easily, I absolutely knew this. The offensive line one is the one I keep coming back.

too because it just feels like that's just what the bangles was always like well i had the offensive line keep burrow up keep him up right and everything but it's for me it's going well which one because it's like do you want i think the succession plan from guards to tackle is a great one but then it's like all right so are we going to go next year we're going to try and find some new center some new interior guys so like this is where uh fatnu fatanu i'm sorry troy fatanu from washington i have to reconfigure my name pronunciation from the past year as I've learned his actual name because him to me is the ideal fit here

because I think he can play all five spots and play him well. So that's why, and again, I keep coming back to these versatile guys, I think that's so good when these teams have one and a half kind of openings, maybe two openings, but we'll figure it out and get that best five.

So receiver-wise, the guys that are in this kind of range are Brian Thomas from LSU, A.D. Mitchell from Texas, who's kind of rising. But those guys are more outside-only types. and which is more of a T. Higgins replacement. A.D. Mitchell will be a more one-to-one.

Brian Thomas is kind of his own thing. He's kind of a Z route runner type that's in a 6-4 body. He's his own thing. I like him, but he's... We're going to talk about him this week. We're going to talk about the past catchers with Dane. I find him to be a really intriguing player.

His skill set and the way that he moves, I just, where he lands is going to be one of the things I'm paying most attention to in the first round of this year's draft and how high he goes. How high he goes, because he's one where I hope his situation's good where he can get brought along a little bit, where he doesn't have to be the guy right away, but then I think he can be the guy down the road.

He's just, he's his own thing. He's like, I've been trying to pinpoint an exact comparison for him, but all the guys that I come to are like four inches shorter. It's just, he's his own thing. So,

but that's why, if they want to get a different flavor. Okay, we have a ball winner. Jamar Chase is this undersized. He's Charles Barkley, you know, who can dunk out guys.

That's what he is. And so he can do that. So technically we don't need another one-to-one ball winner. It's nice with T. Higgins and be able to do that. So I think they have some openings there, some pathways there if they want to add some pedigree to that spot. Just kind of keep the

good times going in the passing game. We've talked about the offensive line a lot over the first two shows that we did. I mean, so many teams in the back half of the first round could use an offensive tackle or an offensive linement. But for the most part, we've been sticking to names that you'd probably throw in like the second or third tier. Kingsley Sue

Mattia from BYU, Jordan Morgan from Arizona, even guys that are interior players first. whether that be Graham Barton or some of the other guys that we've thrown around a bunch. I think as we get into this range with the Bengals and then above, that's when we can, I think, start talking about the top tier of offensive tackles in this year's draft. And there have been like seven names that I think people have thrown around in this general tier. And if I'm listing them off, it would be Foshana from Penn State, Joe Alt, J.C. Latham from Alabama,

Fotton, Amarius Mims from Georgia, Fulaga from Oregon State, and Tower Guyton from Oklahoma. I know you're a little bit lower on him, but I think Dane had his submit like 18th on his big board. So if that's kind of like the upper echelon and a half of tackles, I think the Bengals are a good place to start because I wanted to do this exercise. How many teams ahead of the Bengals at 18 do we think have a screaming need for offensive tackle and would likely draft one if one of those guys was there? I had five teams that I threw out that I thought had like a glaring, glaring need on the offensive line

And we're going all the way to pick one. Could potentially go there in the top 15. I'll just list them off because unfair to ask you. I have the Chargers at 5, the Titans at 7, the Jets at 10. The Raiders, even though you could maybe argue they need a guard more than a tackle, but Thayer Munford is a 7th round pick who started half the games for them last year. They could easily draft the tackle in the first round. And the Saints are the five teams where I was like, I think tackle arguably is one or two on their needs list.

You said Titans, too? I said Titans. And then the Patriots, but they're at pick three. And the Patriots, if they don't draft to quarterback, could be in there potentially. And then, so I think there's a couple that are maybe on the fringe. Maybe the Raiders, if you wanted to say guard is more important. The Broncos, like the Broncos are such a weird team and we'll get to them.

You could easily argue they're starting over. So if you think a tackle is the best player, just take one. Garrett Bowles is in the final year of his deal. And the other team out throughout is the Bears, if the Bears wanted to trade down and go tackle. But even if you want to put those fringe teams on there, that's still only like eight teams. And if there are seven guys, one of these guys that we were like,

ah, they won't fall all the way to 26, could end up being there for the Bengals. So I think that's where this kind of top tier and a half of tackles, this is the range where we can really start talking about them because there are so many that even teams with needs at that position, we're still going to have a surplus of guys available

by the time you get to the 15, 16, 17, 17, 18th pick. Yeah. No, that makes a lot of sense. I mean, it makes sense. These are top, we're in the top 20 range. So now we're getting into true first round graded guys. I have Barton and probably Fulaga switched. I have Fugga as like my top non-blue chip guy.

He's just like, I just can't get around on him. But he is, I still think he's a good prospect that should go in the first round. I'm just not as high as other people are. And I know I'm higher on Barton than others. But that's, okay, so that's seven. So now, now, and then that's before, again, like you said, those second, third tier guys. And that's why I kept bringing up those guys. because I was like, all right, I see all these other guys going into teams or before.

So that's why we're now, like, I'm just agreeing with you. This is now we're getting to this. That's kind of why I wanted to like make a point of separation here as we get into this range of the draft. And like Fattano, I have as my 10th player on my big board. And just because I think he can do so much, so much well. And he has the size traits and athleticism traits. But yeah, this is, like I said, we're now in the top 20. So even if I am 10th, technically a first round grade usually goes to top 19, top 20.

So this is kind of his range. And again, you're going to get into flavor. You're going to get a team need. And really, this stretch is going to be interesting because there's going to be some team needs that we get to that's like, well, I like that, this for this team and not for this team. And again, usually in a draft, there's only like two or three first round-ish offensive tackle prospects. And Peter Skoronski last year, I had him more as a green chip kind of guy, like as a where I have, you know, how I have Fulaga right now. But he went where to the Titans? He went top 12.

11. Okay. I have Barton who's, they've been kind of compared as similar players. I think Barton's a much better player and he might go way later than that in this draft. So again, this is just about supply and demand. And that's what we have right now with the offensive line. We have a decent amount of supply, which is usually we never have. So it's going to be funky how this all kind of drops out, even if that doesn't match to the big board. I think it's going to be really cool where these guys end up too. The other guy I throw out that we've mentioned a little bit, but I think we're getting closer to that range. And you mentioned defensive tackle as a potential need for them in a succession plan.

be Byron Murphy from Texas. B.J. Hill is in the final year of his deal. So even after signing Shelton Rankins to that pretty decent contract for Sheldon Rankins, good for him. I still think you could argue that based on the way this team has drafted in the past, it wouldn't be a surprise to see them fortify that position group a little bit. Last thing worth mentioning, they have an extra third round compick for Jesse Bates. So as they're trying to build depth at some of these positions, just worth remembering that

they've got an extra pick in the 90s there to maybe hit on, we need another. corner, you know, our succession plans, a corner have already taken place. You know, now the depth that we had with the DJ Turner last year, Ouzier is gone. I know he was hurt for most of last season, but they still had built-in redundancies at a lot of their secondary

positions that, especially a corner, are not necessarily there anymore. So, as they need to build depth at that spot, offensive line, etc., they've got some mid-round picks to potentially do that. Get a heart runnerback. They're in a great spot to add to, like, a third-round runnerback. They're in a, like, juicy

spot for it. I personally do not support that because of my Chase Brown dynasty fantasy fantasy shares. Yeah, I do not support that solely because for my personal interests, I do not support them taking a running back. I would rather have the Thunder Lightning Zach Moss Chase Brown duo just be what they roll with for the next two years. But that's just me. All right. Let's get to the Jags at 17. I know we've talked about the Jags a lot during this free Asian stretch and their potential needs. Where would you start? I'm curious, What is the first need that you would say for the Jacksonville Jaguars? Oh, it's corner.

It's actually, it's starting corner. I was wondering whether you'd go corner receiver, and I think corner is probably a better answer. So real answer is corner. Like that, that the actual team answer is corner. That's the head answer, the heart answer is fucking receiver. I don't care if I swear right now. I'm going to say it again. I know.

I'm sorry. I haven't dropped an F bomb in a while. I've said other swear words, but I'll drop the F bomber there. Actually, I go about one to show. But no, I'd say corner. And they have, and they're right in the prime spot to take maybe the first corner off the board, maybe the second corner off the board. But they're in this range where the corners will start going to kind of get picked off.

I'll be curious, because I think there are a couple teams ahead of them that you could make an argument. The Raiders need one. The Broncos could take one. So for the Jags, I think it's, we hope more quarterbacks go. You know, we have more quarterbacks. Oh, the Broncos love Bo Nix and they're willing to trade back for Bo Nicks. great. The Raiders want to trade up, you know, for whoever it happens to be, great. So for them, I think specifically, what's happening at 12, 13, 14, a corner is definitely worth watching.

But they're a great example. And this is where the frustration sets in of that for this year, they need corner. But for team building, they need, still need offense the line to still need receiver. And that's what I look. I look at their offensive line. You can't build a long-term future around Mitch Morse and Brandon Shurf. That's two spots. I mean, they have Cleveland because he's the best of a bad Banchett left guard. But that's really three spots I think they need upgrading from next year. Not saying this year, but this is what team building is all about. And that's what you're supposed to do.

The nice part is they do have mid-round picks. So they have an extra third because they got a compick for Juan Taylor. They got an extra fourth because the Saints traded for Jake Hainer in last year's draft. So they're our spot. Oh, we're going to talk about the Saints later. We're going to talk about the mystery of where the Saints do and do not have draft picks a little bit later. but the Jags specifically have an extra third and an extra fort. So if they wanted to take some shots on depth into your offensive line, for example,

they have the capital to potentially do that. And that's it. And they need, they just need pieces. They have so much that they, it's more just like, just get on base with some of these guys. What's not, let's not keep wasting day two picks. And that's why I felt they've done maybe for the last two years, especially on offense. And so, yeah, and they're not going to take a receiver because Trump Alki doesn't take receivers. This is not his philosophy.

It just won't happen. He had known no GM is the best and less receivers than Trump Alki as far as through the draft, I should say. I agree with you that corner is the biggest need. If they don't spend like a pick on a receiver in the top 100 picks, I'll lose my mind.

If you're just going to roll into the season with Gabe Davis, Saye Jones, and Christian Kirk, I know that Evan Ingram is whatever probably a receiver too. But if that's your group in a season like this where the last year of Trent, of Toronto Lawrence's rookie deal, I would be very frustrated if they just ignored it again in the draft in the same way they've done over the last couple years.

I know, I'm just ready for a sour reaction on draft day with them. But they're set up okay to at least take what they do need, but they set up also where they have needs. And that's the Jaguars. Again, that's where we're at with them. Corner, I'm with you. They signed Ronald Darby to a two-year, $8 million deal with $5.5 million guaranteed. It's an interesting section of corner contracts in the NFL. It's a lot of guys who signed them this year.

And here's how I will describe this. We'll play you if we have to. That's this range of cornerback contracts. The warm body contract. Let me list off the names because it's so perfect. These guys all signed for about that amount in AAB this offseason. Ronald Darby, Jeff Akuto with the Texans, Amique Robertson with the Lions, Shack Griffin with the Vikings,

Dane Jackson with the Panthers. All of them sign in this exact range and they're like the only players in the NFL with cornerback contracts in this range. Everyone else is either lower than this or on a rookie deal or, you know, making $8 to $10 million a year. So that's all you need to know

is that is a replaceable player at cornerback. What's the AAV? It's like four and a half to $5 million. So like the replaceable guard is $6 million. Okay. So now we're figuring out these kind of like the like, like warm body contract. So there's different tiers.

There's the elite tier. There's the good starter tier. This is the warm body tier. I like that a lot. That's funny. So if you have the warm body contract, it does not stop you from taking a corner in the first round. And I think that's exactly what the Ronald Darby deal is.

Actually, not bad team building. It's actually not a bad thing. That's what you should do. You sign just a decent starter or someone that can hold the fort and then you replenish for this year and the whole term of the rookie contract. It's not just for this year. It's for year two, year three, your fork. That's how you build depth and talent.

This is the succession plans you're trying to do. Corner is even more glaring of a need if Darnall Savage does not end up playing in the slot. But by all accounts, it sounds like that's what they signed him to do. I'm sure Nona'll hit me up about that at all. If he's going to be their slot corner, then safety becomes a need. So one of the two, they need a nickel corner or safety depending on where Savage is going to play. So they signed him to a more than warm body contract. So wherever he slots in, they need another starter in the secondary.

But I'm with you. I think it's secondary, corner specifically, wide receiver after that. So far, like, I think that they could probably use a little bit more depth on the interior, the offensive and defensive line. But Eric Armstead is the type of piece that I was hoping that they would bring in for the last two off seasons. You know, he's an interior player in the way that Arden Key was not. But a complementary pass rusher is just something I thought they were really missing last year.

So to be able to have Armstead inside on defined passing downs when you have Josh Allen and Trayvon Walker, that's nice. And I'm with you. I mean, they just need depth in the interior of the offensive line. They still have Luke Fortner at center, but guard,

they could use some redundancies theirs. So those are probably the four spots that I would throw out for Jacksonville. Yeah, the, uh, no, that's, I was going to say. No, the Eric Armstead one is, I actually was, it's like, okay, that one's fine. But okay, I'm not going to get on you at that. It's like so funny, some of these, like,

random ones they do. That's not very random. They kind of splurged a little bit on it. But they need that so badly because, one, he helps on passing downs. Two, he helps on the run game. Even if he's 90% of what he was, still a good player, still loads better. This is the, if you go from crap to average, this is going from crap to good. That's several tiers better.

So even if he's not to what he was, he's still such a good starter and something they needed so badly. So I'm glad you mentioned armstack because I haven't gotten to kind of give some, you know, flowers to that signing and that match. I've made my jokes, but I actually did like this move by the Jaguars. Any other potential players that you did not throw out? We talked about a couple of the corners, a couple of the receivers. Any other potential fits that you think would make sense for Jacksonville in this range? I was not going to do it, but Cooper DeGine. But you gave me the floor.

But he does. You just mentioned safety, corner, whatever, not slot, because we were saying with the Savage stuff. But with Nielsen's defense, the Jeanne Savage types get unlocked a little bit. those kind of safety slot types that can play that. They get unlocked because... CJ Gardner Johnson. CJ Gardner Johnson is a great example because of the blitzing because of the use of what they like to kind of mix and match those guys

based on blitz, based on man matchups when they get into that. So the jeanne's actually a pretty decent fit there in Jacksonville. I'm trying to think of what corners did you mention that could be in range here? Terran Arnold, Arnold, again, it's the flavor you want. So my top two corners are Terran Arnold and Quinnyon Mitchell, Arnold from Bama, Quinnyon Mitchell from Toledo. and then Cooper de Gene. But then you get Nate Wiggins,

who's an outside-only corner. He's got some Twitch to him. Yep, from Clemson. I don't know if he has the size that Nielsen or Balki likes. And then Kulad-McKinstry. Balki definitely favors kind of pedigree schools.

Like he definitely has a, you know, kind of a little thing if we got coached by Nick Saban. So you got to throw him cool Coadne McKinstree in there as well because just his feisty and everything, he's got some size. So that's another one, even if I'm a little lower on him.

Again, we mentioned they have an extra third-round compick in the job. DeWan Taylor signing, and then they got that fourth from the New Orleans and the J. Cater deal. So just nice to have picks in your back pockets when you're lacking depth at certain position groups. And I think that the Jags, that certainly applies for them. Let's get to the Seattle Seahawks at 16. Where did you start with the Seahawks needs heading into the 2024 draft? The interior office is locked again? I wouldn't. It's the first place to start.

There's no question. Because you just look at what they have near. Oh, oh. Because I, in my head, and this is, actually, this is a discussion we had last summer. I was like, oh, I really like Charles Cross, and I really like Abe Lucas, and then you brought up the interior, and I was like, well, they invested a little bit in it. I've seen, I've seen it. They need more investment in the interior, just the help of that. They need juice in there. There's plenty of guys in this range that are perfect. You go listen to this show, last show, the show before, all the guys I could talk about.

But one of those offensive alignment that can play in the interior, then if you want to look defense, it's a gap shooting defense to tackle, because they have so many plugger types. but they've spent a lot of resources on these guys. So it's like, do they want to just keep pumping it? Not sure, again, there's a new regime as far as head coach and everything. What is he prioritized?

But, but like Byron Murphy was the guy I did like matching here to Seattle, but as I've gone away, I've really tilted to more interior offensive line because of the fits like Barton, Fatonu, and actually, Fetano has a background with their new offensive coordinator. So that's another kind of like guy that I can see

mixing a matching kind of perfect range, fit background, that's a guy I really have started growing too as a fit here. I also think you mentioned Graham Barton on a bunch of these other shows if he's still around in this range. All those interior guys that we've mentioned,

Jackson Powers Johnson, I think this is a prime spot. I think if you ask them, they would say interior offensive line is probably their biggest need. John Schneider's openly talked about them needing to add bodies to that position group. After losing Damien Lewis and then even independent of Damien Lewis of those other two spots,

I think you could make an argument that nothing about the way that Ola, the team he played last year, Anthony Bradford, should stop them if they want to upgrade at one of those positions. So that is the first place that I would start. And you mentioned the, not even the offensive coordinator, Scott Huff is their new offensive line coach. He came from Washington. Is he Washington's a line coach? Okay. Yes. Hey, I was Washington's O'Line coach for seven years. I like what he was doing. I like what he was doing. So I'm okay. So I usually get a little hesitant with the college to pro jump for for O'Line coaches. But if all of the guys I watch, and this is just off and I know nothing

about him. No, like a background. What I've seen on film, I like it because the rules were pro-like, which is, it makes the translation a little bit easier than other offenses. So if they like that, if they liked Fontaineau, there's obviously a ton of familiarity there. Defensive tackle I get, I get where you're coming from because I do think that skill set is necessary.

But I think you could literally throw out any position on defense. Because we don't know how they view this group and a lot of the signings that they made at positions where they had some attrition, their stopgap signings. only guy they signed to a multi-year starting-level contract defensively this off-season was Rayshon Jenkins. That's it. Tyrol Dodson's on a one-year deal. Jerome Baker's on a one-year deal.

And so you could go linebacker if you wanted to. It's in the first couple rounds. You could go into your defensive linemen in the first couple rounds. I think you could go safety in the first couple rounds if you wanted to. Even with Julian Love there and Ray Sean Jenkins on that contract, I think Kavon Wallace, they also signed this offseason, but that's a stopgap deal. and then corner. I mean, who knows what they think of their corners?

You still got Mike Jackson at that other outside spot. Do they want to upgrade at one of those outside corner positions? So when you have a new defensive-minded head coach come in, and I don't think there are a lot of like rock solid, we can't replace this guy. Anything to me is on the table. And that's kind of how I feel about the Seahawks defense. And what's so hard with McDonald is that I feel like when I watched his defense, it was so much going like, okay, this is what I got.

I'm going to make it work. it never felt like, oh, wait, I watched Jim Schwartz and it was like, well, of course, you know, like O'Kerwankwell makes total sense for what he likes. Getting the Y-9 and rush that freaking passer. Oh, physical, even though he didn't handpick these guys, those guys all kind of made sense for his fit and defense. With McDonnell. I'm kind of like, it seemed to me he was just like, all right, I got Clowny. Matabike, all right, all right, what am I going to do this? All right, Matabee, shoot the gap.

Yeah, Clownie pushed the pot. That's why we both liked him. A lot of people liked him was he used every. everyone really well. He highlighted their their strengths and limited their weaknesses, which is what good coaches do. I think you could make an argument that every single member of the Ravens defense had the best season of his career

last year. Yeah. Even Humphrey had a great year. Maybe Derby and a couple of the aging corners did. But Humphrey had a good year, too. And then Marcus William, Humphrey was hurt. So I think the fact that he still played well. But I still think he played well. So maybe like independent of like the aging

defensive backs probably on the back half of their career, everyone on the upslope of their career. But that doesn't even apply to Clowny. Clowny had the best in his career last year. So, like, 90% of the Ravens defensive players had career years last year because they were utilized in a correct way. An easy majority did. Yeah. But that's, but it makes it for this exercise so hard. It's like John Schneider's there, but guess what? And none of the old Legion of Boom defensive guys are there. Like, you know, so I can't really pinpoint that. So I'm as interested in anybody with the Seahawks do. I mean, obviously just the head coach stuff, but I just want to, like you said,

I want to know what they are prioritizing, what they think of their guys, because it's such a different roster. It's such a unique roster. I feel the exact same way about the defense specifically. Like, I just can't wait to see how they build it. Do they try to build it through what it ends up looking like because of that? Oh, I'm sorry. I know they're kind of stopgapy, but I am actually interested in that safety pairing because Julian Love and Rayshon Jenkins are both versatile and they're both smart. And so I'm just curious.

I don't think they're going to be an elite. But with McDonald, and you got spoon in the slot, that's kind of an interesting. I want to see the funkiness he kind of brings with those guys because they're all smart and aware kind of players. I think they're more excited about that group than people on the outside are in terms of how they've built that safety room compared to what it looked like last year. Good, because that's how I feel. I was looking at him really. Julian loves a really smart player and he's versatile. So, I don't know, I think McDonald's going to like that.

I'm interested in it. I definitely am. Last one I want to throw out here positionally. Got to mention quarterback somewhere along the way here, right? I like Gino. This is a, I am a pro Gino. I have a pro Gino stance. I love watching Gino play.

I think you can win with Gino Smith, but he's 34 years old. He has a $38 million cap hit next year in his age 35 season. So, and they can move on from him. I think it's $13 million in dead money. This is a Pete anymore. Gino after this year.

Remember, Pete was his biggest ally. Pete Carroll was his biggest ally. We're in a new era here. New offensive coach, new coaching staff, new decision makers. So even if I am a Gino's supporter on this side of things, I think you have to mention quarterback. And the one thing that's funny here, they don't have a second round pick. So even if they wanted to wait until the second round and pick off a Pennix or Knicks or whoever falls, they don't have one.

This is true of a lot of teams in this range. The Seahawks don't have a second round pick. The Broncos don't have a second round pick. And the Vikings don't have a second round pick. So all of these teams that are quarterback needy, quote unquote, that maybe can't get into the top of the draft to draft the guy, they also don't have a second round pick. So just something to keep in mind

as you're trying to figure out where some of these guys land. Yeah, their car is not knocking down that door. You know, he's not coming through that door. There's no second rounder savior coming through that door. No Jimmy G's of the world. For the Vikings, it's because they have 23. They're in a position where, like,

if they wait until the second wave, they're well positioned to draft that guy before anyone else can because they have a second first round pick. And I honestly think that was part of their thinking. But with the Seahawks, specifically, I think if you just looked at it in a vacuum, if they had all their picks, all Pennix in the second round, wouldn't that make sense? If he falls that far, you got the offensive coordinator, it makes total sense.

But because they don't have one, I think it kind of changes the calculus of where they might be able to draft the quarterback. This is way too rich for Pennix, in my estimation. But, yeah, no, I, that's a great call. And last year, I know they liked Anthony you're interested a lot. So it wasn't like this is not on their mind at all, like having that succession plan. It's not like they're just, oh, we'll figure it out. So just it is a possibility.

If you look at their draft capital in just overall situation, they do not have a second because of the Leonard Williams trade last year. They moved from the third from to the fourth because of the Sam Howl trade. So they do not have a third round pick that's theirs. And then they have an extra third round pick because the Broncos traded up for Riley Moss. I couldn't remember if it was Marvin Mims or Raleigh Moss because I was like, oh, Mims, I understand. Like, you know, whatever.

It's got some juice. I don't know how many snaps Charlie Moss played last year. It wasn't a lot. I don't know if I'm allowed to use this word in this context, but the draft pick trades in this range are very incestuous. There's a lot of teams that are just trading with each other. So the Broncos, the Seahawks, and the Saints are all going to be involved in the same sequence of draft trades

and trying to figure out where their picks exist. And notice where they finished. No man's land, right here in the teens, not where you want to be. You don't, you don't say. How many snaps do you think Rowley Moss played last year? He played 14 games. defensive snaps 30 23 but 30 was actually great guess because I would have gone like 90 100 23 snaps 23 steps 23 you traded a future third round pick to move up for him and we're

going to get to the Broncos in a second I think corner is still one of the most glaring needs on their entire roster I don't want to spoil the Broncos conversation I don't either I have so many you're getting into it a couple of like even the Saints conversation it's like oh hold on There's going to be a lot of ground to tread when we end up getting there. Let's go to 15 here and the Indianapolis Colts. Where does your list of needs start for the Colts as we head to the 2024 draft? Corner. Cornerback is the one that stands out to me.

Even if I like Brent's and everything, I mean, you just look at who they have invested there. For me, also, they were kind of a little difficult for me because my first thought was like, oh, pass catcher. because even if I like Pierce, I know what he is now. They've invested in Dobbs. They just paid Pitman. So that got me off of that, off of a receiver.

But doing Meena Kimesa show, she brought Brock Bowers. And I was like, oh, do you even think about that one? Who likes tight eds? Shane Steichen. And they kind of,

Ogletree, who they're interested in is no longer on the roster for reasons. We don't get into here. Jelani Woods is coming back. Totally different. Not really,

he's useful in his own way, but he's such a unique kind of guy, big giant. gigantic target. He's the spiritual successor to Moe Alleycock. It's so funny. That's what Jolani was is. And then Colin Granson's a nice role player. No one's going to get more use of Colin Granson than Shane Stiking.

Like that is like his perfect little like utility knife. Like he loves Kyle and Granson. I like Colin Grantson. But no one likes John Grants more than Shane Stiking. Having said that, that's where I could see if they want to upgrade past catcher. If they want to get a needle mover, Pittman is a nice player, good player. But another true, true needle mover.

We'll see what Dobbs and everything once AR comes back. Dobs is nice. He had nice flashes, but again, he's a slot only type. Um, and then maybe D-line, you know, but then it's kind of, again, we're kind of got not perfect fit, uh, fit here. Chop Robinson's a bit too rich for me. Um, Bauer is a big traits guy, big numbers guy. So then that takes off Latu because Latu ran layout to Latu from USLA, ran a great 40. His other numbers are not great. That's why I keep calling him like an iffy athlete, even though everyone keeps yelling at me. And I don't think they go Byron Murphy because of Buckner and Stewart, uh, because of the investments they have there. So that was kind of, I've gone back to corners, the one that kind of is

most glaring for me and the one I can see the easiest pathway too. So I think this is the right way to bucket these. Corner is by far, I think, number one, when you look at the current players on the roster, there is a need right now today for a starting level corner. There's a reason they were sniffing around what Jerry Sneed is part of that process, because they need a needle mover at that position opposite Ju-Ju-Brentz with Kenny Moore in the slot. Like number one, I think that, if you're tiering them, corners at the top, and I think that, I think, you take a step down. And I think that the way you're talking about this is exactly right. Because all the other spots that you would list off, it's not glaring when you look at the depth

chart. Let's start a receiver. Michael Pittman is a guy that they just paid. Alley Pierce is a role player that I think they believe can be better with a full season of Anthony Richardson, and Josh Downs was good in the slot last year. You look at edge rusher. They have quitty pay. They have Dio. They have Eboo Cam. But I think with both of those groups specifically, and I think you could throw a tight end in there as well with Granson and Moe Allie Cox. and all the guys, Jolani Woods. Those are all number twos.

At every single one of these position groups, these are number twos or in Pittman's case, maybe a 1B, okay? They were sniffing around Daniel Hunter and free agency. If there are upgrades at these positions, they will chase them. This entire roster, I think,

is full of these kind of guys. This has been the case with the Colts for years where it's like, oh, that's exactly what I was going to joke. I was like, this is the B, B plus Colts. There's so many solid players, but they need needle movers. And I think wide receiver and edge are two positions where, okay, let's see if we can find a needle mover. And if one of those guys, you know, whether it's Jared Verst, I know you don't love him, but if they think that one of these edges in the first round is a difference maker for the long term, I think they'll take one even with some of the guys they have on the roster. Because then, Ebukamp becomes your three, you know, Quitty Pay becomes your two.

it all kind of makes sense a little bit more, which is what the hunter signing would have been. Receiver, I think, is similar. You know, if they think Brian Thomas is like a dude and they can drop Brian Thomas in here next to Pittman and Downs, I think they would do it. And if Bowers is on the board for them at 15, I think they run up.

I didn't even had that passing thought about that. I swear until I didn't mean a show, and I told her that. I was like, I didn't even thought about that, but it makes a lot more sense as I've gone through this now, especially just, like you said, they don't want to block Pierce, but you also want to be realistic about it.

like, all right, well, you don't want to invest too much time in him. Is this, is he an MVS or where are we getting out of him? Like, that's what you're trying to figure out. But you don't want to just go like, well, we're going to keep Pierce on here. And we don't need Bowers because we have peers. So I'm just talking past catchers or anything like that. So I don't think that would be the thought process. But that's why I got to all of a sudden.

I was talking about, I shouldn't say Bowers. I should say Brian Thomas or E.D. Mitchell or anything like that, outside only receiver. But then you get to Bowers and it's like, well, that makes a ton of sense for their makeup and what Sikin likes to use. He loves using tight. So, yeah, that makes a lot more sense as I've gone through this. And the first thing is the one D-Lyman that makes sense in this range. This is where I think his range should start.

I like him more in the early 20s, but he's different than Chop Robinson. He's different than La 2, Layout 2, La 2, versus that pocket pusher, that strong, power to speed kind of guy, power to speed, oh, my God, every defense of line coach is going to slip my throat. Every speed to power type of guy. He is that type, and he tested fairly well. He's got some good traits. he's got some leadership stuff too.

So I don't think he's a true, true needle mover, but I do think he's a good player that might have some more to him. So he's the one guy that makes sense for what they like. But again, you're going to talk range and stuff like that. But that receiver kind of discussion is what I've just gone back to. It's like, you're kind of in a good spot here to invest in a true guy that could be a dude. And there's a couple guys that might be there if they like them. So that one's my two, I would say, of their needs.

But that makes more sense. And I think that they're in a spot where that's the right mindset. It's like, yeah, we're okay. If we had to play a game today, we'd be all right, but we understand that we need upgrades. I think that's true for past catcher. I think that's true for Edge. Your lot two thing is this just based on the jumps, but he's not explosive. So like if you look at the movement numbers, right, like his shuttle, his three cone,

those are all like 80th, 85th percentile. His vertical was only 32 inches and his broad jump was about nine feet, nine and a half feet. So those are more. middling if you look at like the RAS and things like that. But even those, I think, and the way he moved was probably better than some people might have expected coming into this process, right? Well, the 40 was good. This is me like just purely like outside draft moron asking questions.

No, no, it's fine. Those jumps are, he didn't do the three cone, which is what I like to see with, with past pressures. pressures. I like to see if they're under 7.2. I think he might have done it somewhere along the way. At the comedy you did. So he did it at the, he did it at his pro day.

And so his three cone was 709 and his short shuttle was 434. And Dane was tweeting about it. Those are both good numbers for a 267 pound guy. Those are good. And it's the broad. So this is where I come back is that he is so incredibly skilled. Like he is, it has the best hand usage of your watch. Is he maxed out?

I'm intrigued by him. So you think he's, you think he's maxed out and that's a problem? That's why I'm more comfortable with him in the 20s than pick 12. It's just that what else are we tapping into here with medical history? deep spine stuff, neck stuff, I shouldn't say spine stuff, neck stuff, which is scary.

The last guy I can remember who had neck stuff coming into the draft and was a first round pick was late in Vanderec. He just retired five years in his career, four years in his career because of those neck issues. So that's stuff that it's,

you know, really want to mess with. But Jaden Phillips was a guy, I think, who had some big time neck and back problems that ended up becoming okay, but he was like a hyper, hyper athlete in the way that Latsu probably is not. And a lead size. And so that's where my concerns come is that I do think he's a good player.

It's just I don't think he's a blue-chip guy. I like him more as a nice, nice, really good number two pass-risher. If you have another dude in there, ideally, the broad number, the threshold, I'm going to give away some little secrets here, but the broad number I always look at as 9-foot-9 inches, 9-9. That is kind of the threshold. 7-2-3 cone, 9-9 broad. Those are really good thresholds to get true, true set guys, Max Crosby. So you can find a lot like kind of some mid-referral.

round guys that maybe will overperform like a Max Crowley, like a DeNeil Hunter because of those numbers. But that's what he doesn't, when they don't meet those, it's like I get a little scared when I'm talking top 20. Not everyone has made them. I think Bosa was like an inch short on his broad or something like that, you know, just barely missed. But then you watch Bossa's film and his length and all that stuff. And it's like, that's why I'm a little bit more. Oh yeah, I like that a little bit more, Joey Bossa, I should say. But yeah, that's why I have more concerns with him. But I do think there's a role for him. It's just certain areas are a little too rich for me. if you get to 26, you go to the Cardinals or something like that, where they have some other stuff,

the Lions, you know, something like that, a little later in the first, I'm way more comfortable with that. But that's just me. I want to watch him a little bit more. I think I might be pumping him up because the first game I watched of his was the USC game where he was just, like, dominating the entire game. And I think a lot of people have watched that game. But for me, I think that even in the clips that I've seen and the stretches that I've seen

of him, he is super skilled. And I just, I'm thinking about pass rush for my team in that range. like if they were to pick at nine or trade down, is he somebody that might be worth it playing next to Monta's sweat? So he's just a name that's been on my mind. And I know you don't love him as much as other people do. So I just want to interrogate that a little bit. Yeah, no, the Bears fit's nice.

I've just seen them. And again, I just think there's how much are we tapping into here? So that's where I just have some of my current. The USC game is the one that I think everyone has noticed. Watch him, the good game to watch, I think, with him is Arizona because he goes against Jordan Morgan. And I think they go back and forth a little bit. and Morgan is a good matchup for him because Morgan's more of a finessey guy at tackle.

So that one was a really good matchup, and I think Morgan won it. Actually, talk about games that stand out that make you hype a guy up. That might be my Morgan game where I'm like, hey, he was blocking the crap out a lot too. That's why, but I've watched a few more. But that's, I'm glad you asked me about it because I haven't really dove into it. And I know I kind of keep kind of keeping them down, keeping them down. It's just that I think I'm more concerns because of where his ceiling might. The ceiling makes total sense, but he's one of those guys that everything I've seen.

and then some of the metrics and the past rushing metrics, I'm just like, things are pointing to me liking this guy more than people I respect tend to. So he was just one that I wanted to dig into a little bit more. And we're going to do a whole show about defensive players here over the next couple weeks. So we'll be talking about him. And I think all of the other past rushers

a little bit more in depth than we have up to this point. Two spots I would throw out just depth-wise, just worth mentioning for somewhere along the way in the draft here. Interior offensive line, Ryan Kelly and Wolfreys, both free agents after this. season. Ryan Kelly getting older. So that's one spot to look at. And I don't think Nick Cross or Rodney

Thomas would prevent this team from drafting a safety in the first couple of rounds. So just depth at those spots, I think are worth mentioning as we get round two, three, four. Rodney Thomas will never, never, I like Rodney Thomas. I think you know that too. But that will never, ever, that name

will never break my brain or leave my brain because the first time I ever talked about him, remember what happened? It was like, I think a Thursday night came and he got dunked on like for a touchdown or something like that it was like literally bringing them up for the first time ever. I'm like, like, I really like them. Make sure to check them out tonight, guys. Like when you're watching Thursday night, football, watch him tonight. And he like had like a PI and then gets dunked on. Like, I think they're playing like the Broncos or something. And I was just like, I never mentioned. I was like a

spot start. There's nothing wrong with being. Yeah, it would be a little bit excited about a guy like that that has a fallen shirt. It's good. No, no, but I just will never. That's a name. It's just one of those guys. It's like, why did I say anything? Let's get to the New Orleans at 14 here. Just the team that we could spend six hours talking about them and the roster construction and where they're at right now. I think my number one need, and I don't know how you feel about this, but based on what has come out over the last couple of weeks and where things currently stand, if Ryan Ramchak is not going to be able to play this season because of what's going on with his knee, it seems like it's a degenerative condition that is just doesn't have any sort of solution on the horizon. I think you can make an argument that with that and the penning situation to left tackle, that offensive tackle is the biggest need that the New Orleans.

Saints currently have right now. That's it. Oh, I said literally first line. O line to me is their biggest need. Yeah, Trevor Penny, experiment, totally soured. Andres Pied is a free agent. I learned that Pete's little brother is like a, I think a tough basketball guy or something like that.

But Ryan Ramcheck, like you said, my retired, James Hurst, fine player. You're not building your team around James Hurst. It's like, to me, and especially with this draft, especially where they're sitting at 14, they are in a prime position to add to this offensive line with Sean Peyton. which we'll talk about him in the second. And post- Sean Peyton, they've invested in offense line. Even, you know,

Trevor Penny was our first-round pick. So I-McCoy was second-round pick, I think. I mean, they've spent, Andre's Pete was a first-round pick. They've spent a lot of high-end draft capital on that position. I was waiting for the Broncos discussion, but I got them all. Oh, yeah, Andres Pete, Caesar Ruiz,

Stevens brother, Ryan Ramchek, yeah, all first rounders. And then, yeah, Eric McCoy, second, Armstead was in the third. That was such a home run by them. But that, they're going to invest. Arkansas Pine Bluff will do that. Oh, yeah.

His senior bowl, I remember. Is that right? Is Arkansas High Love? You nailed it. The senior, I actually went to that senior bowl and I remember the noises people made when he was in one-on-ones. That's like, I swear. Because it was like this is his phone work. It might have just been my dad sitting next to me.

But it was like somebody was making noise and going, oh, oh, like, because he was just, I swear to God, that's not made up because it's just sets were so fast. But yeah, they'll invest. They'll invest that position. I think they need to invest that position. We saw what happened last year. And Derek Carr, they're invested in Derek Carr. He melts with pressure. A lot of quarterbacks do, but he especially does.

Sure up that entire position group. I think that's the number one place to start somewhere along the offensive line. That was easy for me. The ones after that were harder for me. Which other positions came to mind quickly for you after you move past the offensive line with the Saints needs? I said weirdly edge, even though they signed Chase Young. It's because this is a prove-a-deal. So it's, yeah, Game Jordan is 35 this year, which, again, he's my first.

age, so of course, on his way to Hall fame, but his best balls behind him. You could see it kind of tailing off last year a little bit. I think he really's got one more good year. Which is normal. He's 35. It is normal for a 35 year old to not have the same impact as Nedge Rush. He barely fricking miss time either. Like, he plays so many snaps. Yeah, just a legend of a player. But who else? Carl Grannerson just signed the deal. He kind of, he's always had off-field stuff, and then he signs the deal, and as soon as he signed a deal, his play tanked. And that was kind of disappointing because he was playing so well in that first month of the season. We talked about it.

I mean, when we dug into the Saints defense early last year, he was a guy that was just jumping off the screen. Oh, my God. So I'm looking at Cam Jordan. Cam Jordan has played 16 or more games every single season of his career. He's played 800 snaps or more every season of his career until the last two, where he played 790 and then 770. It's just a ridiculous career.

And you would assume that number should have been lower based on the amount of draft capital they've spent early on defense events. Peyton Turner, Marcus Davenport, Isaiah Foske, none of them have been able to keep Cam Jordan off the field, even if that was probably part of the plan when they invested in all those guys.

Session plan like five times. They're like, oh, he's just outplaying of all still. So it's a tough situation to be there, though, where you, those three guys, obviously Marcus DeVosor's on the roster anymore, but Peyton Turner and Foskey still are, and they still sign Chase Young, and you could make an argument that they probably still need help at edge

and then along the rest of the offensive line. Nathan Shepard and Kael and Saunders are both on the roster for 2025, but those are guys that are just guys. I mean, if you wanted to improve on that with per se from last year, I mean, you could make an argument for a lot of positions on defense, yeah, I think.

But the guy, I think why the edge discussion for me was like, oh, okay, is Jared Verses a perfect Saints fit. Like, you couldn't get a better edge fit for the Saints than him. So if they... Big physical. Big physical pocket pusher. They would love that type. So it's a little high to me, but, I mean, again, this is where I think the range does

start, though. So that, if they did want to go down that path, that's where I could see it. They do have a defensive head coach, even a defensive first head coach. So, you know, you never know what happens in those meetings, even though I think the offensive line is glaring, circled, sharpied, starred, highlighted,

big spotlight on it. I think everybody could see that. I'm with you. I think safety is a position we're thrown out. They moved on from Marcus May this offseason, so somebody to drop in there next to Tyler Matthew and even Tyler Matthews obviously getting much, much older. Corner?

Probably a consideration. Paulson Adibo's in the final year of his deal. They've always really bolstered depth there. They always have one or two more corners than they need. And I think the current state of that room, they're no longer in that position. Honestly, I think you can make an argument for most positions as maybe not needs,

but spots where like, oh, they could add here. Like wide receiver, oh, they could add here. Tight end, they could add here. Defensive line. Oh, they could add here. Corner, safety. They could add here. That's kind of how I feel about the current.

state of the Saints roster period. Yeah. I mean, even looking at it, even like running back, it's all right, how many years are you get with Camara? Like, you know, it's just... They dropped to Kendrae Miller in the third round last year, but... No, and they invested in Jamal Williams. I know. It's just... Like, the Tyrant Matthew one, it's that the Saints moved on from him two years ago because they're like, yeah, we can't do this anymore.

And he's... The Saints are like re-upping them. And that's just... You mean, the Chiefs moved on from two years ago. I was like, why'd that sound weird? Yeah, the Chiefs moved on from a couple years ago, and the Saints They're like, yeah, let's keep them going. Let's keep that going. So that's where they're at. That's where they're at right now in 2024. Here's part of the problem when you're a team that probably could use some reinforcements at most position groups. The Saints have two picks in the first four rounds this year.

The one they have in the second round isn't theirs. It's one of the picks they got from the Sean Payton trade last year. So they got the Broncos two and then they gave their three to Denver as part of that deal. So if you're trying to, one of my favorite games, I tweeted this today, one of my favorite games every year is, let's do a scavenger hunt to find out why the Saints have none of their picks. Like, why don't they just have any picks? So their second this year went to Philadelphia in the Trevor Penning deal. So they lost their second round pick this year and they still need a tackle after what they did for Trevor Penning last year. Their third goes to Denver in the Sean Payton swap for the, they get a two, give up a three.

their fourth, we talked about this earlier, went to Jacksonville in a trade for Jay Caner last year. It is remarkable that you just, you open it up every single year, whether it's Takedan or Pro Sports Transaction, whatever your draft pick finder of choice happens to be and trying to figure out why the Saints have three fewer picks than every other team in the NFL.

It's one of my favorite annual pastimes around this point of the year. I love that they have four fifth round picks, three comp picks. That's amazing. They have fifth round compics. They got one for Davenport, and they got the couple other guys that signed, you know, pretty decent contracts last year.

So they got a bunch of fifths, that's, which is nice, I guess, but they don't have a third or a fourth. Oh, man. It just always just looks so funny because it just goes,

you know, when it all gets listed off, even like the Bears one, it always looks funny because it's like first, first, like gap. Like here, that's what this one always is funny.

It's like first second, gap. And then it just fifth, fifth, fifth, fifth, I think Charles McDonald said he's like, I think this is my Madden strategy. Just, you know, just

They do a lot of madden-esque strategies in the real world. And, you know, the Bears don't have picks this year, but they had extra seconds last year and they got extra picks next year. The Saints, it's an annual thing. And they got Montes Sweet. Montes Sweat with the second. Yeah, it's, yeah. They're just missing picks every single year.

So I always enjoy that process. All right. Let's get to the Raiders at 13 here. Where did you kick off your team needs for the Las Vegas Raiders? I stare at their deaf chart and I see DJ Flukers name, Penciled in as they're starting right guard in 2024. And I had to make sure, I was like, that DJ Fluker, right? That guy, I don't think he's been on a roster in what, three years, two years? Yeah, so Align.

That was that was it. It didn't get past that. It was just offensive line. And I think, again, pull the string. They're set up in a perfect position to take whatever flavor they want at the offensive line, but they're in a decent position to kind of pick whatever guy. they want Colton Miller's turn into a really nice left tackle. And I think you already mentioned there for it a little bit.

That's like, he's okay. He started for half the season last year. But he's not like it's like he was, oh my God, like you can't play this guy. It's like, okay, but it doesn't preclude you from upgrading from a seventh rounder, especially with the guys that are given here. But other than that, like a quarterback, if they want to get frisky, but then if you don't really, you're not in kind of that range, you're getting kind of moved up from that. And then cornerback would be the, you.

other one. And again, we can talk about it in a second, but I don't know if that is necessary like a glaring need, considering the defensive coordinator and Patrick Graham and what he has with corner. He can make different types work there. So it's not as much of a need as maybe a guy that wants to really match his guys up on the outside and having them go man to man or match up stuff on the outside. I think that's fair, but I still think they have a pretty huge need at outside corner. I mean, what Jack Jones gave them last year after signing midseason was remarkable. And so if he can continue to play at that level, that is a huge win for them. Nate Hobbs is a nice slot corner, but they need another outside corner as part of this equation. So I think for me, it's between

offensive line and outside corner, because we had the same process with the DJ Fluker realization. And then if, you know, you're fine with Munford at right tackle, then you need a right guard. If you're not fine with Munford at right tackle, then you need a right guard and a right tackle. So somewhere along the way, you need a starting offensive lineman and you're in range to find one in this class. Corner to me is next. If you want to draft Terry and Arnold or Quineau Mitchell, whoever the best corner in the draft is that falls into this spot or the top corner

in the draft, you could get him with the 13th overall pick in this class specifically. And I think that sets up well for the Raiders. And the third one I had was quarterback. And we have not talked about this at all. What is the plan? Like where do they find a guy? How aggressive are they in finding a guy? I don't know the answer to that.

I mean, they signed Gardner Minshue to the most bridge quarterback contract you could possibly sign a guy to. So somewhere along the way, whether it's in the first round this year, whether it's in the second round this year, they're the exception. Among all these teams in this range, they have a two. So if they wanted to wait, they could be positioned to get one of those second wave quarterbacks in a way that some of the other teams in this general vicinity are not. Is that their plan? Do they want to be more aggressive than that? Are they kind of one of those teams that could surprise us? We're sitting there on draft night.

The Patriots are on the clock at three. We're all just assuming that the Vikings are going to be the team that goes up and gets it. And boom, it's the Raiders. Or it's at four and boom, it's the Raiders. I could see that. But we really have no sense of why they would take whatever path is available to that.

Yeah. And I mean, it's like they played in O'Connell so many games last year. They signed Garner, Midshoe. I've heard through the great five. they like Pennix. Penix.

And we've got our, I did our quarterback preview. And it was, what a Dan and I talked about him about, talk about him like a late day two guy, a midday two guy. That's being nice. And so to me,

it's like, are they talking about liking him in the first round liking him? Or are they talking about him day two liking him? So that was one name I've heard maybe associated with them. But I don't know. For me, it's like that if you can't get really the top two or if you're clued in Daniels and McCarthy as well,

any of those top four guys, just figure it will just go with this placeholder stuff this should be technically you're one of this quote unquote regime the problem is you got devante adams sitting out there you got guys like that you got guys like that you got people like that it's like it's hard to figure them out man and i just don't know i don't know what the timeline is i don't know what they want to be because i think that that's exactly right i had the same thought when i was looking at all right well you know they could wait but that doesn't seem to be where they are right now you know they spent a shitload on Christian Wilkins.

They got Devante Adams in the building. Like, what is the timeline and how quickly do they want to drop a quarterback into that timeline? I truly don't know. I don't either. And I don't know, like, Antonio Pierce's long-term team building philosophy. I know that guy gets his players going, though. He's a good quote. Shouldn't be a shocker anybody's met Antonio Pierce.

But, yeah, he's with an award. So my only, like, punchline thing about Antonio Pierce at this point, after this offseason, We've had a couple months. We've had free agency. We've had a couple different things for him to react to, hiring cycles. So I think it was Minshu and Luke Getzi. His reasoning for why they hire Luke Getsy and why they signed Gardner Minchu for both guys. Well, they killed us.

That's my only bit of pause here is that like I need a tiny bit more for why these are your answers at some of the most important hiring and signings you can make in the NFL other than. Well, when we played against them last year, he did real good. Oh, no, that's such a coach answer to, by the way. I'm mostly joking. Like, it's probably fine. But the fact that that was his answer for why they hired their offensive coordinator and why they signed their quarterback is very funny to me. Yeah, so the Timberwolves as a, well, I was a Sonics fan, then they moved.

So it became a Timberwolves fan. They, Kevin McHale used to be always a victim of that. He was the GM for a while there. signed Joe Smith under a table deal. It cost them like five first round picks. But anyways, he always would sign guys that were the guys that killed the wolves the year before. It was like a lock that they would sign for some three, overpay them for some mid-tier guy, all this stuff.

And it was like the number one thing. And the only pro team I could think of that does that right now is Trump-Balky loves that shit. Love signing of the guys that killed him the previous year. What could Christian Kirk's and Gabe Davis's receiving totals and see who they had their best games against Jacksonville, Jaguars, Williams, what's his face, Darius Williams, his best game when he's with the Rams, going against the Jaguars. Yep, yeah, so that's kind of his team building philosophy too. And we always speak about him in high praises on the show.

That's right. Big fan of what they've done here on the athletic football show. So let me throw out a scenario for you here. I'm curious how you feel about this. All right. So looking at the Raiders picks and who it might be available, let's say they take Fashanu with a 13th overall pick, okay, whatever, if he's there. let's say they take Pennix at 44.

Are you okay with that plan if you're the Raiders? I'm in the first round, but I like that way better and taking Pennix in the first, and it gives you, it's a dart. You're throwing darts right now, trying to figure it out.

We have no real long-term solution here. All right, let's get three guys. We got A. O'Connell, Garner, Manchu, and Pennix, and I just don't want him in the first round. Like, I just don't, I think that's way too rich.

But again, if you think you're comfortable with him the second, he falls to the second, whatever. Again, it's a dart throw, and maybe you can find that answer. It's funny, I've been trying to figure out what quarterback class this year reminds me of. And there are shades a little bit

of the 2011 quarterback class, right, where you had the guy that was the cam year, so you had the guy at the top, that was like that top, top guy. And that was, there are two of them this year, kind of the way that you see it with Caleb and Drake. Drake made a Blake Gabbard.

No, no, no, no, no. he just got called Brock Osweiler by Dane last week. But there are a couple guys. Let's say like Jaden Daniels and J.J. McCarthy are kind of in the Blaine Gabbert Christian Ponder kind of thing where they're probably like top 10 to 15 picks, but maybe

in this year's class they get pushed up. But then in the 2011 draft specifically Andy Dalton and Cam and Colin Kaepernick went with the 35th and 36 picks in the draft. And we just don't really see quarterbacks drafted in that range anymore because typically teams just

come up and go get the guy if they want one in the back half. I guess Levis was an exception last year. But if you're picking a guy at 44, it's just different than if you have to trade up for him in the first round or pick him with the 13th overall pick. So with the Raiders specifically, if that's how the draft fell for them because they just can't get up that far and they need a quarterback somewhere along the way,

I think I'd probably be okay with that set of outcomes for them specifically. Dalton is a funny name to bring up because that is, like kind of a tier, I would maybe view McCarthy in as maybe as like upside and everything. But it's like he went pick 35, not pick five or four. And that's the, that's why I have kind of troubles with this conversation about him. But like that's the thing is like a adult. It was the different world. Totally different world. Absolutely different world. It was the, the CBA. Yeah, yeah. The CBA hadn't come into play yet. So I think people didn't really understand like the value of rookie quarterback contracts and like this was during that negotiations that, right? Yeah,

it was 2011. It was the first year. because it was the lockout. So this was really the last draft before the modern way of thinking about rookie quarterback contracts where you draft a guy because I think that's part of the reason. The reason that J.J. McCarthy is the fourth pick

and not the 35th pick is because not just teams needing quarterbacks but teams really wanting quarterbacks on rookie contracts. So the thirst for that, I think, is driving some of the predictions about how high a couple of these guys could go. But, you know, if the Raiders are an exception because there aren't as many teams looking for that second wave and a couple of these guys can fall into the second round, does that actually break well for them?

Do you want to invest that much in a guy you don't know about? Even if it is $9 million relative to guarantee him all the money in the old CBA, I'm just saying the tradeoff of all that is like it is a unknown quantity that you're investing in. Oh, you're talking about trading up for a guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And you're taking away. That's kind of what I mean.

Like if you're, okay, if you're the Vikings, right? And you have, and it is J.J. McCarthy. Let's just say by argument's sake, it is J.J. McCarthy at four. You're trading three first round picks or you're using three first round picks on J. J.J. McCarthy. Is there an argument that if it's not going to be one of the top guys, it's better to just wait till 44 and take whoever happens to be there? I don't know.

I see it both ways, but I think that's the situation we're looking at for teams in this range because only one of them is going to be able to, probably only one of them is going to able to move up and get whoever the fourth guy happens to be. And it's all about commitment to a guy if they really like a guy. That's why the chiefs moved up from a homes. They were like, hell, yeah, that's our guy. We're doing hell or high water. We're moving up to that spot to take him.

A team just has to fall in love with one guy. The Raiders could just fall in love with Pennix and go, yeah, that's our guy. We're staying Pat. We're staying Pat right here and taking them. You don't know. Like maybe the Broncos is like somebody and they want to move up for that guy. You just don't know how these guys actually viewed these guys. Like that, I mean, shoot, just even me and Dane talking, anyone you see on Twitter,

breaking guys down, YouTube. insert backup quarterback here. Like they break these guys down and like they talk about them. Oh, I prefer this guy. I prefer this guy. That's how every team and every room is. Jane and I talk about this all the time. There's some of these quarterbacks will have nine, ten evaluations just from one team.

So now you then, I mean, that's so many different opinions. So many guys didn't get stacked differently. So head coach and the GM also just fall in love with the guy. That's how guys get driven up draft boards and driven up on the picks and the owner or the owner. Yes, which is the big one too. with the Raiders, you do have to take that in consideration more than other teams. Yes, the owner is big with the Raiders. Let's get to the Denver Broncos at 12.

This is the weirdest team in the NFL to me. I do not understand the Denver Broncos. I look at the depth chart. I look at the draft cabble that they have. I look at their cap situation. I just don't understand them at all. If it were me and I'm looking at this team and even there are some, that I think could push you in this direction,

like them choosing to take on the bigger half of Russ's dead cap hit this year and the smaller next year. So they decided to flip it and take on the $50 million chunk this year and the $30 million chunk next year, which that's fine. You're not doing anything this year anyway. So I actually think that's kind of smart. My thought is just punt on the year.

Just punt. You sign Ryan Tannahill to whatever contract Ryan Tannahill wants. and you say, all right, we're building this thing for 2025. Even with Russ taking up 35 million in cap space, we have 80 million in cap space next year, we have a lot of flexibility, we can move on from some guys, and then next year will be the year that we end up trying to take a shot and go find our guy at quarterback and really push this thing forward.

In a vacuum, that's what I would say. You think Sean Payton's going to punt on a football season at this stage in his career? Probably not. So I just, I don't know. I don't know why they would go one direction or another. I don't know if they have the assets to go be aggressive at quarterback. They don't have a second round pick because of the Sean Payton trade. They don't have a third round pick theirs because of the Riley Moss trade.

Think about what they've done over the last two years. This team has made one pick. If they stick at 12 this year in pick, it will be the only pick they have made in the top 50 in the last three years. because of the Rust trade and the Sean Peyton trade. So even independent of the ammo they have to move, there are no young draft picks on this team. The guys they did pick, they traded up for. So they gave up picks to go get Marvin Mims,

and they gave up picks to go get Riley Moss. So are they in a spot again to trade away draft capital this year or next to go pick a quarterback when they already don't have any young cost-controlled talent on the team? I do not know what to do with them. I have no idea. And this isn't even a criticism. It's more so just like Lucille Bluth at the table being like, I don't understand the question.

I won't respond to it. Like that's how I feel about the Broncos right now. This is what happens when you splurge on a quarterback and splurge on a head coach, but not just money-wise, asset-wise. This isn't just money or capital or anything. This is picks, using picks to get these guys. Quarterback they've already moved on from might be the backup in Pittsburgh this year. I know people are begging for them to take a QB. I just, I don't see the avenue.

for it. Just as all that, what you just said, I just do not see the avenues for them to move up because of the assets they have. And I know from what I heard, Peyton likes May. And I don't see him liking Bo Nix. Even if guys are matching it up, like, oh, well, that's the fifth guy. Well, Sean Payton's going to love him. Oh, because he's great and quick game. And that's what Drew Breeze was so good at. Drew Breeze was a monster over the middle and launched that shit down the field on play action as well, guys. And so straining right there, I just seeing what Peyton likes, Nix is not that type of guy. That's not how Nick's plays.

We're talking day two. Sure. We just went over their picks. They don't have any fucking picks. Exactly. So I don't see them doing that. I think he's stem a decent deal last year. So I don't know.

I don't know. I think Stone's the guy there. Just for this year, just a stop gap. I think they are building. They should be building, I should say, for 2026. But this is Sean Payton. And that's where it is so hard. I'm right there with you.

This was exactly my notes. It's like, I don't know. I should say the smart thing to do is trade back. That's the smart thing to do. Move back. Take the linemen. Get some more mid-round picks this year and next year. How many times does Sean Payton move back ever?

Ever? Has he ever? The last time the Saints traded back in the draft, Lou Johnson, who covers the Saints, was talking about this today when I was making my joke about the scavenger on with the picks. 2007 was the last time the Saints traded back in the draft. I went before the show, I was going to pick or draft by draft.

I got to 2010 and I hadn't found anyone. So 2007, that's exactly. And then they traded up twice last year in his first draft. That's what he does. Whatever, the football czar. He's the head coach, but he's in charge. We know this. His first year, and he did a lot of the personnel stuff in New Orleans.

So when Sean Peyton has a say in all of this, trading back ain't part of the process, man. So when you consider his approach, his personality, the way they approached free agency last year, in a year where you could have easily made an argument, that just take a breath for one year, just take a breath. They went the exact opposite direction. So even as all the evidence points to a certain prudency and maybe having some patience

and taking a long view here, everything that we have seen, every ounce of evidence we have points in a different direction than that. So I just, I do not know what to make of them. I really don't. So it makes it hard to talk about needs and process and where they'll go because I can't get my arms around them, even to get to that level of granularity. Even last year's free agency, I remember just what you said. It made a lot of sense for them just, you know, some singles and doubles.

You know, maybe get some Peyton guys in there if he wants to splurge on some old saint players. All right, but we don't need to break the bank. You get all the stuff we got, you know, see what we got with Russ and then move on to 2024 and see what we happen. No, not Sean. He's splurge on McGlinchy powers, all these guys. But that, but that brings me to this is the one spot of my. like, all right, we just talked about with the Saints. One spot, Champaign is always drafted high,

his offense a line. And that's, again, talking about early teens, this is a perfect range. Don't want to do that whole thing again. But if they were building to build for the future, that would make a lot of sense to me as far as bridging to that. Bowles is a free agent after this year. Correct. So Garbole is a free agent after this year. If they wanted to take a tackle the future, they could do that.

They have a needed center now with Lloyd Cushenberry moving on. So that's another spot where somewhere along the way, could they address that? O-Line was one of the first things I said. said, to me, this is a Brock Bauer spot if they stick, because they just need something, right? So if that's where they choose to go, their pass catching group is weird. You know, it's Josh Reynolds discount, Tim Patrick, Cortland Sutton, who they've been trying to trade for two years. So if Bowers is there and they think he's the best player, that would make sense.

And then I think you can make an argument for the defensive line. You know, Browning has 26 career starts. He's a free agent after the season. DJ Jones is 30, he's a free agent after this season. My takeaway here is this is kind of a rebuilding team. You could make an argument for almost any single position group because that's where they are from a roster building standpoint. But that's the only thing about them that screams rebuild

is what the state of the roster is, not how they operate, not the mindset, and not what they probably will end up doing. So that's why it's just hard for me to pin it down. You just said, imagine you can see it, pick three, pick four, pick five, and you see the Raider thing come up, see the Bronco thing come up. See that logo come up and we all look at each other. Like, oh, I could easily see it.

They'll find the pick somewhere. Even if it doesn't make any sense of what they're using and they'll find something. They're going to find a new credit card to charge. That is what they will do. They'll take out a new line of credit. They'll change their name and find an alias. But other defense player, like you said,

I can see them taking another corner. So with Patrick Sturtain and the J-Quain and the slot. Yeah. Yeah, defense alignment edge might be a little richer. Yeah, everything. Yeah, that's why I just deferred to offense a line or moving back. It's like that's what I would do in their situation. But again, Sean Payton has such a wildcard.

He'll always be a wild card with this stuff. Yeah, they should have had an extra third because the rally Moss trade and the Sean Payton trade, but they traded that they lost the extra third because the rally Moss deal. They do have an extra. They do have a fourth. They don't have their fourth, but they have a fourth because of the Bradley Shub trade. This is another team where it's just like, you open the list of picks and it's like, what

is happening here? I need a road map. I need some sort of shirt to actually get from point A to point B here. Someone did that for the Eric Lindrauss trade going for hockey here. And he was like, he, Eli Manning did it when he got drafted. And I was like, I'm not going to play here. That's a good trade to the flyers. There is like a map of what the picks, the assets that got traded for him.

It's insane what it turned into. I got fined it somewhere. Someone replied to it because I made a joke about Lindrosse the other day. And so I got to find it, but it was just, yeah, Quebec City ended up turning into a Colorado Avalanche winning everything. So it's like, yeah, but I just, I, that's burned in my head. It's like what that one little trade can turn into for an entire franchise. The takeaway here is the Broncos have two picks in the top 100, one pick in the top 75, again. That's what really matters here, as we're thinking about how they're going to approach this draft

and what sort of ammunition they have to move around the draft and what sort of ammunition they have to potentially seek out a quarterback. This stretch of the draft with, and we'll talk about Minnesota next week, but Minnesota, Denver, and the Raiders, those three teams and what they need to potentially do with a quarterback, I am endlessly fascinated by how that's ultimately going to shake out, especially when you consider the spot that a couple of those teams are in because of the trades that have happened already. It's funny. And then the second half, or the first half of this show, I should say, all those other teams are such fun teams because it's like, what do you guys think? What do you think of your... How are you going to get from

point A to point B. So, I feel the way about the Colts. I feel that way about the Jags. I feel that way about the Bengals. Seahawks. Seahawks, too. The Seahawks is a grab bag.

It's like, oh, okay, okay. They honestly, this sounds bad. It's like, I don't see them missing here. It's kind of like, they can kind of choose their adventure

a little bit here. They kind of are a little different. So you're right. They're more in reset mode to me than teams like the Jags, the Wrangles and the Colts are. Those are like, how are you going to push this thing

over the top? The Seahawks, I'm more interested in, because you're going to tell me something about that I don't know about you because it's a new regime. And I always appreciate that about the draft. All right. That is all we've got for today. Just a quick heads up programming-wise for the rest of this week.

Our show with Dane is going to run on Friday this week, not on Thursday. Dane is finishing up the Beast. So we're pushing that show. Just one day we're going to talk about the past catchers on Friday. Very, very excited to dig into that. Thursday show this week is going to be me and my good buddy David Helman from Fox Sports chatting about the teams that we think have the most at stake in this year's draft. I think we'll probably be talking about a couple of the teams that we mentioned today alongside a few

others that really have to nail this year for one reason or another. So very excited about both of those. Please come back and check that out. And like we mentioned at the top of the show, we are going to be in Detroit this year for our live draft show coming to you on. YouTube live round one on Thursday. Me, Nate, Dane, fun guests, a lot of bells and whistles. So please be on the lookout for that. And we will also be doing round two and three on Friday. So same sort of schedule as last year.

Hopefully, just a tick up in the level of broadcast we could bring you guys. Yes, just just really knocking that out this year. That for now is all we've got. As always, sincerely appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you soon. This was the Athletic Football Show.