The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - NFL Week 5 Monday Hangover — Jets roll up 40, Saints-Seahawks fireworks, and more

Episode Date: October 10, 2022

Robert Mays and Diante Lee are back for another round of the Monday Hangover, looking back at a handful of Week 5 games that needed a little more time to marinate before we could tackle them in full. The guys dig into Jets-Dolphins, Saints-Seahawks and Eagles-Cardinals on this episode of The Athletic Football Show.Follow Robert on Twitter: @robertmaysFollow Diante on Twitter: @DianteLeeFBSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTube5:59 Panthers fire Matt Rhule20:00 Dolphins-Jets38:20 Eagles-Cardinals61:20 Seahawks-Saints Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. It's the athletic football show. I'm Robert May is joining me today. It's my good friend, Deontay Lee. Deonti, how you doing, buddy? I'm doing well, man. I'm doing a while. How you doing?

Doing all right. Just another Monday hangover here. We had a good week. We were going to talk about Titans in Washington today as part of this show. Unfortunately, it got bumped like a late-night guest because we got a bigger attraction here. The Carolina Panthers. have fired Matt Rule, and we got to talk about this. Inevitable, felt like we were cruising toward this as the end point.

Panthers were the worst offense in the league through the first four weeks of the season. Can't imagine it got much better after yesterday. They could not figure out all of the most important elements of being an NFL franchise while under Matt Rule. So it seemed like we were cruising toward this finish. This leaves them in a pretty weird spot. What was your first reaction to the Matt Rule firing and what comes next year? for Carolina. I mean, the predictability of it is probably where we start, right? Like, I think everybody could have kind of circled this game after the way the season started as, A, knowing how

the result was going to be, and B, there being probably a perfect jumping off point, you know, I think that if you're looking at the situation in terms of getting your butt kicked, you start assessing where this roster is at within this regime, which is basically nowhere, the quarterback roulette that they've played, and the fact that the guy that you brought in is now nursing an ankle injury, so you're going to have to play your backup and lose more games anyways. This is probably about as good a time to go ahead and cut bait as possible. I'm sure we'll get into it, but I think the most surprising thing was that they kind of got rid of all of rules guys as well and leaving Steve Wilkes as an interim head coach.

So I thought that that was kind of an interesting additional piece of this. Yeah, it seems like they want somebody in charge who has done this before and maybe clear house of a little bit that are the rule guys. You know, Phil Snow is a rule guy. he was just fired. Can't be based on the performance he had as the defensive coordinator of this team. It was the only redeeming part of who they were over the last couple of years. But I can understand just wanting to turn the page and give this to somebody who's been an NFL head coach before and Steve Wilkes.

And now you have kind of an NFL-centric staff. They also fired their special teams coordinator. So they're clearly trying to clean house here. Right. I think the initial conversation point around this, that's an understandable one, is that Matt Rule is a college guy who completely rebuilt two college programs that needed to. be rebuilt. And he did a great job of doing that. So if he can rebuild a college program, why can't he rebuild an NFL program and why are we having this extended ongoing conversation about why some of these guys who've succeeded at the college level just can't seem to figure it out in the NFL?

I think it's all like resource allocation, right? And I think that there is, and maybe, you know, you don't want to ascribe too much to everybody. But in all of the failures, it seems to be a consistent line of not understanding how resource allocation truly has real world effects on the field with what you can and can't do. There is no such thing as just playing your backups, right, or having replacement level players and being successful in the NFL. We don't have a point of reference in this league of teams succeeding year over year that way. If you don't have a true infrastructure, you know, when you think about the best head coaches that have influence on the way that their personnel goes, whether it's Kyle Shanahan.

You can look at that team year over year with him as a head coach and see a very clear idea of how they want to play offense and defense, not just in the plays that are called, but in the people that they bring into the building. You think about Andy Reid in two stints now between Philadelphia and Kansas City, and I'm using these shining examples to kind of paint the picture of what it looks like at its peak. On a baseline level, I need to be able to, if I am an ownership group, if I am a GM, whatever the case may be,

I need to be able to see your vision based on your personnel and play calling week over week. I don't know if we've ever had a point where we could do that with Carolina while Matt Ruhl has been here. Especially on the offensive side. I think on defense, I can understand the contours of a plan. Right. Let's find these flexible athletes that are kind of positionless and we're going to play this aggressive kind of pressure-filled style of defense, play a lot of weird zone behind it and just be an oddity. a little bit of a different thing, a difficult thing to prepare for in a week-to-week basis based on

the players that we have. They did that on defense. I think there were times where it looked really, really good. And over time, it was fine. It was an acceptable way to approach that side of the ball. On offense, they just never, ever figured it out. They're cycling between Joe Brady and Ben McAdo and it's quarterback after quarterback, and they spent a ton of resource on the offensive line this year.

It didn't really end up mattering. Christian McCaffrey was hurt, but even when Christopher was playing, it doesn't really matter. they're the worst offense in the league. And if you can't figure out that side through multiple quarterbacks, multiple play callers, that's ultimately what's going to happen. If you're going to have a bottom five defense, you're going to get fired sooner rather than later. And that's exactly what took place. So now we get to this place where, all right, this team is kind of strangely assembled.

You know, you've given out a contract extension to DJ Moore. Shaq Thompson's on a pretty big contract extension. You really have no cap space next year based on the way that you've done this. You traded away some future resources to go get Matt Corral in this year's draft and then ultimately traded for Baker Mayfield to make him your starter anyway. So I'm wondering what is the plan from here? Beyond who the next head coach is going to be, we've got a long, long time to figure that out. But the people that ultimately end up in charge, which direction do you want to take this thing? Let's play this out as a hypothetical.

The Panthers end up as the worst team in the league this season, which I think is absolutely on the table. They win four or five games. they have the number one pick in the draft. You have this team that has DJ Moore on it, that has Christian McCaffer, you've spent all these resources on the offensive line, you have players on defense that you think are kind of interesting. J.C. Horn, Brian Burns, who is going to be coming up for a contract extension here pretty soon. It's like, if we drop a cheap quarterback into this, if we almost stumble into a solution

to our quarterback problem because we don't have any money and we have less resources than other teams, can we get there with the roster that's currently in place? think there's an argument that it might be easier to go that direction than it is to go in the total tear down direction. The other big question, though, is who's doing this? Who's making these decisions? Yes. I can see that. Actually, I don't hate that argument, right? And I think that you can look at both of those pathways kind of evenly because for as painful as I think 2023 is going to be because of the lack of flexibility outside of what you're going to have to do in terms of paying Brian Burns, you'll have some open, some open doors in 2024.

If you can kind of embrace the suck between the remainder of this year and all of next season, I'd imagine. So I think that if that's what you're looking at in terms of your short term, how do we patchwork this thing to get to that place in 2024 where the doors kind of opened up for us in terms of spending that we can do, then I think that trying to get in a Gino Smith type of guy, you know, not that he would be available because I think the Seattle's very happy with them right now and we're probably like to keep them around whenever they make a pivot at quarterback if they decide to do so in the coming off seasons. If you can bring in a quarterback

like that to just get you from point A to point B, that probably is a more viable direction in the immediate future than doing the tear down because I don't even know where the tear down leaves you because of how weirdly they've spent their money and some of the holes that they still have on this roster. I was talking with a couple of my colleagues who were like, well, if you're Seattle or Baltimore, shouldn't you be calling about Brian Burns? And wouldn't you offer them some pretty, you know, decent draft capital for a guy like that? And the answer is, yes, those teams should. I've just been kind of tortured with looking at it from Carolina's perspective. Like, what does that actually do for your franchise right this second? Do you think that you're one big draft away,

you know, after you clear your money? If you have a few, you know, productive guys on rookie deals, especially if they play premium positions, does that change your outlook at all in the immediate future? The Brian Burns thing, I think that would make sense to move on from someone like him, just because you haven't paid him yet. He's going in the final year of his rookie deal next season. He's 25 years old. Yeah, that's that one I get. But DJ Moore has been extended.

Taylor Moten's been extended. Shaq Thompson's been extended. Christian McCaffrey. You've got, Shaq Thompson is at $24.5 million next year. McCaffrey's at 20. Mone's at 24.5. DJ Moore's at 25. these are all contracts that are fairly fresh and new.

So moving on from all of these deals, essentially after you've just paid the signing bonuses, that I feel like what are you really accomplishing if you tear it all the way down? But again, the question is going to be, is Scott Fitterer the person who will oversee this and what sort of autonomy does he have to make these sort of decisions here in the next three or four months

as they move toward a new head coach? And if they decide to keep him and then hire the coach, and those two sides are misaligned again, then you're running into just another problem. So that's what they have to figure out, is that not just who the coach is going to be, but what is the organizational vision here? Because every three or four months, it changes.

This is the shiny new quarterback. This is the shiny new quarterback. I don't like this. I'm going to go do that. That's how I make decisions. I am not David Tepper who owns an NFL franchise. And I feel like you can sense that. You get that feeling every time you see them make any sort of

of choice is that they're willing to get off of it in two seconds. And sometimes that's a virtue, but not when you're trying to do the most important things involved in the NFL picking quarterbacks, building around that quarterback, figuring out what your offensive identity is going to be. So I think beyond the roster being torn down, I think the process has to be torn down and rebuilt. And I think in order to do that, you may have to clean house. Which is why, you know, and I'm glad you brought it here, because, you know, for as disappointed as I was at Phil Snow, was not retained, I think I like the messaging behind getting all of the rule guys out and having I totally understand why you do it to stand in, right? The messaging there is that we want adults here

who have a vision, a clear vision of what it takes to succeed in the NFL, right? With true NFL bona fides is what I think they're going to be putting out in whatever candidates they end up interested in. It's going to be true NFL guys if I had to guess that have done this, that have maybe worked under guys who have built their rosters. up a certain way because they believe in playing football a particular kind of way. And I think that that has to be the focus for a team that's in this kind of odd situation where all your young players are being paid right now short of Brian Burns, you know, to that point.

You're not in any easy jump off, you know, type of positions with a Christian McCaffrey, you know, with the Shaq Thompson, DJ Moore, you know, there's no easy way out for any of these types of contracts. So if you know that your young good guys are going to be paid and it probably behooves you to just eat, you know, the next couple of years on their contracts and hope to try to get as most productive production out of them as possible. Then I think that the messaging in, and we're going to clear house, you know, I'm interested to see what that means for Fitterer, you know, in the personnel side of this thing, but I think that they're going to have to bring

in a head coaching candidate who can walk in and say, at edge rusher, we're doing this, at cornerback, we're doing this, at quarterback, we're doing this, offensively and defensively. Here are my coordinators and my assistants, and we're going to play football. this kind of way, full stop. You know, that's where this franchise needs to be. Something that they had, I think under Rivera, when you had McDermott, you know, and all those Eagles guys around, which was reflected in how they were competitive and successful in that Cam Newton era of Panthers Ball.

And since then, I mean, they've just been floundering. And you brought in a guy in Matt Ruhl who, while building up college programs, I think, didn't never met the expectation of being a quote unquote culture builder, being that infrastructure builder. And this franchise now, I think, needs it more than ever because they have just struck out on quarterback after quarterback after quarterback. And this offensive line being in the hole that it's still in after addressing it, however many ways, they said that they've addressed it in the last couple of seasons. My understanding about Carolina, or about Matt Rule, when he was at Baylor specifically, is that they just recruited all these Uber athletes that were kind of like taken from the island of Misfit toys. They were incredible athletes, but it was about figuring out how to deploy them.

that's never going to be a strategy you can use in the NFL. The athletes are all on some sort of baseline level. Like your advantages have to be schematic or they have to be cultural or they have to come through detail. It's not just about like we can find this totally untapped resource and get the most out of it. That's just never going to be the way that it works. So I can understand why there's a gap between what he could accomplish the college

level and what he could accomplish at this level. And my thing is when you're tearing down, you're usually you have to tear it down in order to get bad enough to rebuild it. Yes. They may not have to do that. They may be in such a bad wave right now that even with some talent on the roster, they could be bad enough to put themselves in a position to draft a quarterback. And then can you really get this thing going again if you're a C.J. Stroud in April

and most of this roster stays intact. Because that's the concern that I had is that they make two moves here. They cut Robbie Anderson, make one or two more cuts. They get $10 million in caps space, they get like $5 million in cap space for 2020. If you have a rookie quarterback contract, even with the top three pick, you can easily fit that into whatever plan this is.

Again, you stumble into a solution for the problem that you have created for yourself. So I'll be fascinated to see what they end up doing and what sort of moves end up happening. If I'm Ryan Poles, I am calling about DJ Moore yesterday. Because this is a guy with $19 million dollar base salary next year, 14, 15, the next two years.

All the bonuses are already paid out. 25 years old. I'm trying to pick this corpse for whatever it has if I'm GMs around the NFL right now. Whether or not they want to do that, entirely different question. But they're going to have to have some real look yourself in the mirror of conversations in Carolina about how this all goes next and how they can not run into the same problems they just ran into with the mat rule era. 100%. All right. Let's get to our first game here. Jets and dolphins wanted to dig into this one. Jets get a big win against Miami. We talked about this a little bit last night, me and Nate, just about the guys that stood out for the Jets. But when you rewatch this game, what was the first thing that you noticed going back through? I think that the big takeaway is that Breece Hall is a real playmaker, right? I think that we saw that the way that they deployed them, I thought was really interesting

in tandem with Michael Carter. You know, I think that now you're starting to see what they're trying to do. I think that Devonte Freeman, Kevin Coleman era of the Falcons, you know, with having the between the tackles runner, tackle breaker guy and Carter, and then trying to use Hall, maybe as more of your speed guy out on the perimeter, get the ball to him on screens, and he's a guy who can create a lot of offense down the field for you. So that was the first thing that stood out to me. And then the more I zoomed out, it's like, okay, if you get a performance like this out of Breeze Hall and we have what we've got in the Browns game that it just played earlier this

year with Garrett Wilson, you can look at this draft and say, okay, you know, our offensive skill position guys that we brought in, have produced. You know, Jermaine Johnson, I think, had a good game last week as a pass rusher. You know, so now you're saying, you know, some of these guys that we picked in these premium stock kind of positions are higher up in the draft have all kind of produced for us. And that allows you, I think, to focus your energy on exactly where the development of a Zach Wilson is. And that's what the benefit of having your better players, you know, your better

young players look like they might be hits, is that it allows you to focus your energy on the guy at the head of all of this, would be Zach Wilson at quarterback. I think that that's right on. I think the young guys playing as well as they have over the last couple weeks is extremely encouraging. Even a guy like Elijah Verit Tucker in year two, the fact that you're just throwing him at right tackle this week.

He's never played it before in his entire career. And especially in the run game, he had some really impressive moments. And then now you have Dwayne Brown at left tackle. And it's like, all right, now we can start to operate in the way that we want to offensively after shuffling this stuff around a little bit. So the way that AVT played, the way that Breece Hall played,

I mean, as a runner, but then explosive plays in the passing game, he had multiple explosive plays. I really like the job that Michael Fleur is doing and kind of creating those. The touchdown, the long 79-yarder is a beautiful design. They're in heavy personnel. They're in their pony package. The dolphins match in base defense. It's condensed splits with the tight end as the number one receiver on the left side. They totally clear out that side.

And it looks just like a lead run to the left. Hall leaks out and you create explosive play out of nothing. They had another one deep in the second half where they had them leak out into the flat with a little slant-flat combination just for an easy completion, really creating those. So the idea that they have these players that we're excited about. And again, they're kind of consistently creating explosive plays, conjuring that amount of nothing is really encouraging. And then you move to the defensive side of the ball. Sauce is just legit. He's just legit.

He's freaking good. There were a couple plays in this game where he's one-on-one with Waddle on the defense's left side. and either really his change of direction for a man as big and tall as he is is extremely impressive. And he's also, you can just tell he plays with a lot of confidence where it's like, I can, I'll give you this cushion because I know even if you eat it up, I can drive on this. Or you know what? I'm going to play a little bit of press here because I'm not too worried about you beating me over the top. This is Jalen Waddle that we're talking about here. And his ability to do.

The thing was the perfect example of that. Yes. That's what you're saying. That trust in self and athleticism is to say, I can give you four yards. of separation as maybe the fastest person in the NFL because I trust myself, my length, my athleticism, and what I'm seeing from the quarterback to be able to jump underneath it. Well, that was helped by that ball getting tipped and taking about seven seconds to get to where he was.

So the Skyward Thompson element of this game is an entirely different conversation. He was not terrible, but he was not good. And honestly, gives you a window into some of the throws the two it has made and even been willing to rip this season. Because the Jets did a really good job of, in my opinion, I'm curious what you think about this. I thought they did a really good job of just compressing space on the second level of the defense. Because think about all of those throws that the dolphins have been able to hit behind linebackers in front of safeties because the speed is a concern to you. And you're having to come up because of play action in some of those RPO's.

And Thompson isn't even willing to take those, but they were all tight window throws based on the way that the Jets were playing. Not a lot of blitzing, a lot of quarters, and I thought they played it really well. But then now when you can start to weaponize your defensive players, there was a third and five. I think it was 447 left in the third quarter or in the game. I can't remember. My notes are messier than they should be. But they played a straight like one double on Tyreek with DJ Reed and C.J. Mosley and sauce is one-on-one with Waddle.

And if you can start doing that kind of stuff against a team like this with these sort of receiving options, again, weaponizing your corners who right now, look like your best defensive players, then things start to get a little bit interesting. I mean, and that's how you allow your your pass rush to get home, right? Yes. And it was a twist and it was a sec. That was exactly what happened. You move the pocket on guys. I'm taking away your number one option with two bodies.

And I'm going to take away your secondary guy with our best player, you know, our best cover player, I'll say. And now that twist has an opportunity to really get a guy off his platform. And it's man underneath with everything else. You're making a decision on throwing the ball in the tight windows. So to that point of being able to use quarters, I think, on earlier downs to really take away those intermediate passing options and then still having defensive backs that can live in those man-to-man situations against legitimately terrifying speed that we've seen cause problems for secondaries all throughout the league so far this year. I think that that speaks well to the defensive infrastructure that we've wanted, you know, Robert Salad and an over have been craving. Yes.

I know they've been desperate for this. And this is exactly why you go out and get a sauce gardener and then make sure you still get a guy like a Jermaine Johnson, you know, because the idea is if we can just hit on this in coverage with versatility and we get guys who can just be pocket pusher, power rushers, you know, hand in the ground and we're just tearing off up the field types of guys. You'll be successful more often than not. And I think across the league we're seeing that the best ones are the ones that can do that. So we're starting to see, I think, the outlines of the picture of what you want Jets defense to look like under this. regime. Would you think of the way Zach Wilson played yesterday? Decently, I will say decently, I will say decently. I feel better about, I obviously feel better about him now than I did last week. You still have a little bit of leaving the pocket for no reason. But I would say, I mean,

what we harped on when they played the Steelers still exist, which is that he is an up the sideline thrower of the football. You know, everything, it felt like every throw he made was up the sideline. Yeah. And it's a difficult way to live down over down and week over week in the end. NFL. If you can't scheme up everything for him to work a wall in the middle of the field, then we're talking about Jimmy Garapolo basically on Hunky Deal, right? Where everything we do for you over these intermediate areas has to be off of play action or schemed up with these condensed splits and all this misdirection and things like that. Those are the things that still concern me. And that's still on display here, especially against the team that you know is going to

send a bunch of pressure and play man. And if you can't deal with it when you're getting clean pictures like that on the back end in terms of rushing five and tight coverage and you're not confident enough in your arm, which was a selling point on this guy in the first place, is that he would rip those throws when they need it to be made. Then we are talking about a lower tier type of fringe starter quarterback, you know, and that's what the ceiling has looked like because I don't have anything else to go off of in his starts to this point. He made like three or four throws.

It's like, all right, I can get behind this. He had a whole shot to Wilson in the second half that just like you see the arm. And you're exactly right. I didn't even notice that when I was watching, but if you want to bucket of throws, it's a lot of outside the numbers sort of completions in this game. But there were a few that I was really impressed by. And then there are moments where I thought he played fine. Like the pocket mobility stuff and just the overall awareness and things like that,

I thought were worse last week than they were this week. But not a ton of stuff that wows you except for those three or four throws. And then there was one play that just absolutely drove me insane. He has Elijah Moore on a crosser to the left side. And instead of just setting. his feet and throwing a ball to a wide open guy on the sideline, he tries to, like, put some sauce on it while moving to his left and never setting his feet, and he throws it out of bounds. It was like, why?

It was incomplete. Why? All I'm thinking when he does that is the, it's the, we need to talk about Kevin thing. It's like, why can't you just be normal? Just throw the ball. Why can't you just be normal? And so it's a mixed bag. It's his second start of the season.

It's his second year. I think that with the way that the infrastructure currently is right now, with again, lot of the younger guys that we're excited about. The fact that the offensive line is sort of healthy, I guess is what I would say. Like they found a five that I think could work for them, even if Veritucker's at right tackle and we have the past catching options. I do think that if you keep seeing flashes like this from him, there's reason to be optimistic, but still just want to see more.

I guess that's where I'm left with this. This was a 17 to 14 sort of game deep into the game. I mean, into the fourth quarter, this is a one-score game. It got away from the dolphins late. and this is against the backup quarterback. So credits for finishing them off like that, but it's not like they blew them out over the course of this entire game with Miami playing with the backup that had to come in one play into the game.

100%. And I think that, again, if you can zoom out, I think and remove the perspective of Zach Wilson being a potential fulcrum of this offense, to your point of, okay, this offensive line moved to Miami defensive front that I actually think has been playing really, really well up to this point in the year. So if you're able to create some movement while still being a little dinged up,

that lets me know that as guys continue to get healthy and you get more continuity with these backfield that I think that they can have at its best, there's enough to build a real offense where it might be entirely possible that you don't need Zach Wilson to be the nucleus of everything. And if that's the case, and that changes my entire evaluation of him as a quarterback, right? Because now I can ease up on what I need him to create as a quarterback in these dropback scenarios. So that's kind of something that I'm looking at as well is you've got guys that can create after the catch in Elijah Moore and Garrett Wilson that can work three levels of routes between these guys.

And you've got two legitimate backs. And I think an offensive line that has some potential still to be good when they're all together and healthy and whole. So if that's, again, to the point of infrastructure coming off of this Panthers conversation, that was something that I walked away with was like, I can see the bones of what this might be. And it makes me feel a little bit less, a little bit less hesitant. to believe in what they're trying to do is Zach Wilson because I see what else they're trying to build around them.

And if some of these guys really hit the way it looks like they might, then that makes that much more possible in a way that I think would definitely ease some of my concerns about this franchise. I'm totally with you on that. Let's get to the Dolphins just a little bit. I mean, I think really the biggest concerns here are guys not playing or guys leaving this game. The fact that now we've got Brandon Shell playing left tackle for most of this. You already have a backup right tackle. Now you see some cracks in the foundation. starting to form for the dolphins, even when Tua make it back.

If you're going to have two backup tackles, we'll see how long Tauron Armstead is out. He's seeing a specialist in New York staying there after injuring his toe. This is what happens, right? Yeah, he signs that contract to free agents. Everyone's like, man, what a great deal, right? Like, why was he so cheap? It's like because he struggles to stay on the field. Yep.

It is when everything looks great, and it's week one, two, and three, you've got to love it and you got to be excited about it. But then when you're playing with a backup left tackle for huge chunks of time, it becomes a concern. Zamin Howard missed this game. Tyreek Hill is in a walking boot after the game. Not expected to be serious, but again, just something to keep an eye at to take a look at because when this group was healthy, they looked really scary. But if you start shipping away at that, then what does this ultimately look like?

Because while I do like some of the players up front on defense, down in and down out, the defense has not been very good this year. This team needs to score a lot of points to be a potential playoff team in the AFC, even if we think the overall field is watered down. I mean, and that's how this roster was built, right? It was built. It was not built with margin for error in mind. It was built for being as explosive as possible when all pieces are available.

So think about the resources that went into Wadle and Hill. Think about how many sheer draft picks were spent to get those two guys on the roster when you think about traits. 100%. I mean, you think about the fact that like they enter doing this and I kind of thought about this in the Thursday night game and they played against Cincinnati, but they've really positioned this offense to where Mike Gassicki can be a luxury, where Michael Daniel can legitimately look at him and say, I don't need you on these plays. We can use Ingold as a blocker instead of asking you

to do something that you don't do very well, and we can drop you in when we need you to do the things that you do best. And that's all awesome when everything's available to you. But I didn't, that's something that's hard not to notice, right? I mean, obviously you start off with two and not be available. And then you have Teddy Bridgewater. sustain his head injury early in the game and now you're down to QB3 and you never expect a team to win games on QB3 in the first place. But that guy can't practice all week. He's a thrust in the game, one play into the game.

Exactly. You're happy if that guy spends enough time watching film to know exactly why you're calling, what you're calling on a week five-lead basis. So that's definitely, you know, I don't want to be unfair in the expectations, but it just makes you look at the rest of the roster, right? Well, if he'll can't, if he'll has to come out, what does that do to this offense? So no Taran Armstead when I were starting to see a lot of what she saw last year, which is ball out right this moment. Second to cutches the quarterback's hands.

We got to get it out on the perimeter and see if we can get some yards after the catch. And that's a gear that I think that they can use because of the speed that they have on this team. And I think that having Rahim Mostert there healthy, somebody else that you probably shouldn't rely on to be there for 17 games worth of NFL season. But, you know, when all of it is together, you can see it. And then the less of it you have, now you're starting to look at like, oh, yeah, that's right. Toronto Armstead does have injury issues. You know, Rahim Moster has taken, you know, quite the beating, you know, between his time and San Francisco and now and has been nursing injuries at this stage in his career. And you don't have what you would believe to be your leader and quarterback.

And the defense is not playing as well as they had on the whole as what they were the last couple of seasons. It does not leave much margin for error, which is why they've got to find a way to be able to generate as a couple of. explosive offense as they can with these speed threats because this is not a team that's built to just beat you down or beat you in five, ten different kinds of ways that we expect the other best teams in the league to do. The problem with the Rahim Mouser side of this is that Chase Edmonds looks like he's just a mess right now. He's dropped like three passes over the last two weeks. I mean, he's been one of the least efficient running backs in the entire NFL over the first five games of the season. So this group that looked like they might have a couple options there and a guy

they paid this offseason, he has been an absolute non-factor. And when you're slinging the ball over the yard and two is the third most efficient quarterback in the league and you're creating five or six explosive plays a game, that shit doesn't matter. But nobody, it doesn't matter. But when you're looking at a game like this where the marching for error again starts to shrink and shrink and shrink, one, two dropped balls from a running back that should be an easy chunk of five yards to keep you on schedule, those suddenly become absolute drive killers.

And that's what it felt like on Sunday. So credit to the Jets, because this is what they need. They need those guys. They need that underlying foundation of young players to continue to progress in the way that we saw on Sunday. So that's what I would attach myself to if I were a Jets fan. It's like, man, you know, for those three, four, five guys, like if those guys can be real dudes, then we can be cooking with something here. Yeah.

All right. We're going to get to Eagles Cardinals here in a second. First, we're going to take a quick break. All right. Let's get to Eagles Cardinals here. The Eagles squeak one out. against the Cardinals team that is looking a little bit better in some areas. We can get into that.

But somewhat of a disappointing performance from the Eagles is a 5-0 team, but you want them to kind of go in and beat up a team like Arizona that's really struggled to find itself this year. Where do you think the Eagles fell short the most on Sunday? What was the most disappointing area of their performance for you? I think it all just comes back to the fact that they could not generate explosive offense. That was a thing that just blew me away. Not only not generating explosive offense,

but I thought that there was just a lack of an attempt to create downfield passing opportunities. And that was something that I had not expected coming into the game. You know, you get the obvious third down situations where you start to get those ridiculous mugged up fronts from the Cardinals. Like, he is an unhinged man. Like I can kind of understand, you know, looking at that offensively and saying, you know what, we'll just get five out in the pattern in jail. And if you don't like it, just check it down. I get it.

I 100% understand that, but the early down stuff, not setting up downfield play action shots, knowing that you're dealing with a single high, a cover one team, and not trying to find as many crossers or end breakers as you could. That was something that kind of left me scratching my head a bit. So I'm kind of fascinated to know if that was just because there was no Milata, because you're still not dealing with the greatest pass rush in the world. And I know that Kelsey had to leave the game before you returned for a little bit. I know that Landon Dickerson, I think, had to leave the game as well.

But that was kind of the approach from the beginning, right? It's not like things changed once guys got a little nicked up before coming back into the game. There was a lot of horizontal offense from them in a way that kind of left me scratch in my head for a team that's really been rolling offensively the last few weeks. It was interesting because when they played that way against Jacksonville last week, my thought is it's some missing your left tackle, but it's also. some rainstorm. Right.

Like we have to play ball control, and this is the way that we have to create offense. So seeing the same offense, this week, Sands Rainsstorm was a tad bit surprising. And that leads you to believe they're playing like this because they just do not trust their offensive line. I think that has to be the answer that you come to. Some of the numbers in this game, 3.81 air yards per attempt for Jalen Hertz in this game, 3.81, 44.4% of his passes were at or behind the line of scrimmage. which was the highest rate in the NFL this week, obviously, at the lowest air yards per attempt,

just beating out Joe Burrow in both categories. So good for you, Jalen, really nicely done. They brought a ton of heat. He was blitzed on over 40% of his dropbacks. That's what the Cardinals are at this point. I actually have to give a decent amount of credit to the way the Cardinals have played defense over the last four weeks. They got shredded by the Chiefs in week one.

Weeks two through five, they're 12th in EPA per dropback, which should not be the case based on the talent that they have that side of the ball. It has not changed that Vance Joseph has been very good at this over the last three or four years. Like this is a team. If you look at some of the pressures they're bringing, it's insane shit. They're just mugged up and like- What if it makes sense, man? None of it makes any sense. So from an outsider's perspective, they're lining up like cover zero, eight guys, eight guys across the line of scrimmage,

bring in five or six. It could be any five or six, like truly any five or six, which is really difficult to sort out. Is there anything more nuanced or interesting? to the way that they're bringing pressure at the quarterback that I just can't see when I'm watching it? So far from what I've watched of them, not really. Like, I remember watching it last season when I played the Jaguars. Like, it was clear that game that they kind of picked up some tell that the Jags had in protection, because I remember seeing a lot of the same pressure pathways over and over again from Joseph in that game. But so far this year, and maybe it's just because of them trying to find exactly who they want to be.

I think we're seeing more of just the insane makes no sense coverage rotations in terms of what they're doing, you know, would zone off of these mugged up looks that I think has really helped them out. And I think a lot of that is probably influenced as well by the fact that you don't have a true number one pass pressure. Right. So a lot of this is really just like, and we just want to present as much of a threat of ridiculous pressure as possible and then try to time it up well of sending real pressure versus feigning pressure and dropping it. coverage and actually caught the Eagles on one. I think it was third and eight in the third or fourth quarter after dropping out and basically just rushing four and playing these different rotations of cover three or cover two behind it.

They got one where they actually did play straight up zone and they brought two off of it or straight up man, excuse me, and brought two off of an edge when Jalen Hurts was expecting another one of those kind of simulated pressure cover three looks and they got a sack off of it. Two three rushers on that play. Two guys are just completely unblocked off the edge. 100% and that is the value of it is that the threat of pressure becomes just as valuable as real pressure because the offense has to honor both. So those are always the times where I look and I say like, okay, none of this makes sense to me, but clearly it works well enough to be viable for Vince Joseph and this offense, excuse me.

But even with that, when I'm looking at Philadelphia, I'm like, you guys have an offensive line and tight ends that can max protect and you can push the ball down the field. So when I'm looking at guys' usage, that was the thing that was really kind of. to odd to me. Like the screens to Dallas Goddard are cool and I like them as like a cautious sleeping type of thing. But when I'm looking at like AJ Brown's usage, I'm like, you know, he could have taken a couple of these screens, right? Like from a Devonthe or as Watkins or a Dallas Goddard. That's a guy who can create tough yards through contact, you know, after the catch. So those are the kinds of things that I think leave me kind of like scratching my head or raising an eyebrow of it. Yeah, I think it's just one of those games where you can tell their

conversation and coming into the week was we just can't lose this game. We can't just have a disaster game. Just enough to get the hell out of here. That's exactly right. We're going to play against this team that brings pressure on half of its plays. It's going to be this wonky shit. They play 75% zone behind their blitzes, by the way. This team that's running all this, and I think really one of the only teams currently

playing like this where it's like, holy shit, what is going on? It's like them and the bucks with the ways that they're playing zone behind some of these pressure looks. It's very fun, but it's very hard to deal with if you're in offense. So I think that just saying, this is our plan. We have enough to beat them this way. Let's just try to hang on while our left tackle is out. And then you lose your left guard, you lose your center at what point during the game.

I can understand this as a plan, even if watching it in practice is a tad bit underwhelming. I love, there was one stretch where it was third and two at like 335, I think in the second quarter, when Kelsey got hurt. And so he got hurt at the beginning of that of a series of plays. And they brought two pressure looks. on those right, the next two plays, they brought it like insane heavy pressure in both of them. And the Eagles just had no chance to sort it out without Kelsey in there, which is just really smart.

It's like, all right, your Hall of Fame center who's been in the league for 15 years is out of the game. Like, good luck. And on the third down one, they did a full slide to the right because what else are we going to do? Like, we don't have a more sophisticated answer to what they're doing right now

with our backup center coming in midstream against the Blitz-happiest team in the league. They leave Watt totally unblocked and it just torpedoes a drive. And that's what was happening. It's like when you're having to sort through all of these moves, it's the worst team, I think right now potentially in the league to lose your starting center against, especially when you are starting center is Jason Kelsey. 100%. I mean, and that brings you right back to the point of like, are I really going to full

slide or we're just going to release all five to the pattern. And we're not so like we're just not even going to deal with this. Yes. We're not going to think about this, you know. I pretend I do not see it. The middle finger, yes, you send the middle finger right back across the sidelines, right? It's effus in both directions. Like I'm not even going to try to sort all this out.

So that, you know, and I think that it was just those kind of key situations that kept the Eagles offense kind of ground to a halt, especially in the second half. I thought that they did decently well by trying to run into some of these crazy looks that you get, you know, or these like base fronts where you're leaving these bubbles, you know, between the center and guards. are huge. I thought they did a decent job with that. But to the point of doing just enough to win, I think one of the things that was really telling in that was running like multiple quarterback sneaks in short-yarder situations.

They also didn't go forward into short-yard situations, which was kind of, it was like there were a couple like third and fourth and one, fourth and two where I think in another game situation, maybe with like another game script or a different opponent, they would have gone for those. It's just kind of a weird plan from them overall in terms of the lack of aggressiveness they showed on multiple levels.

What did you think of the Arizona offense against the Philly defense? I think that, and this is something that I just pick up with watching Cliff Kingsbury's offense over the last few years. It's just like watching you get progressively less vertical, like series over series and kind of pass attempt after past attempt because they just can't protect anything. It is endlessly frustrating watching Kyler Murray have to be the kind of quarterback that he is for as talented as he is and seeing him have to. to bail out of pockets or create all of these ridiculous throws, high degree of difficulty plays because they can't actually protect long enough to push the ball down the field. I think that one of the things that Philadelphia did that was really interesting to me, and I'm not sure if they meant to play it like a fire zone or if it was like cover three

robber or buzz where you're using that weak safety to take away those overrouts. But they kept creating these kind of like five-man fronts where it looked like, you know, whether it was T.J. Edwards or Hassan Reddick or something like that lined up as a standup guy over the center where it almost looked like he was a spy of sorts. And they were just trying to run contain rushes with like almost his fire zone coverage behind it. And that was giving Arizona a lot of trouble. And I thought that that was an excellent way to play zone coverage in the way that we know that Philadelphia wants to and to be able to take away some of those vertical throws that we know Arizona wants to get to while also affecting the pocket. And I think we saw a very uncomfortable Kyler Murray because of that, especially early in the game. Really, like two of the biggest completions that they had in this game, there was the RPO glance to Marquis Brown that ended up becoming a big play, which there's putting linebacker in conflict. If you're going to attack somebody in coverage on this team right now, like for T.J. Edwards, I think it's been better, but still the guy you probably want to go after.

And then the touchdown to Brown, it's actually a really nice design. They were in empty. They essentially ran him, let him run an option route against Gardner, John. Johnson in space. It just did a great job. Pry and loose taking it to the house. And then there was another one. He dropped on a similar sort of RPO.

They could have turned into another big play. So I'm curious what this Eagles defense will look like against some of those RPO teams that want to attack the middle of the field and kind of keep them moving because they really, have they really played anybody else that wants to play like that so far on offense? No, they have not. They have not. And one of the fascinating things to that RPL point was they spent a lot of time in like penny personnel. So we got a lot more Jordan Davis against like this spread

offense than I think I would have anticipated. And Davis played well. Like he did a great job, I think of taking away some of the gap scheme stuff that Cliff Kingsbury was trying to get two out of these like 12 personnel looks where you're in shotgun. You're going with these pair sets or Y Y, Y wing or hip slot, whatever Nate or me or you are using to describe these formations on the same side with the other two with their two receivers on the same side. Just think two by two with the two bigs, two smalls. Yes. So, you know, I thought that, you know, Jordan Davis handled that well, but I would not have imagined that the approach going into this week would have been more guys at the line of scrimmage and more airspace on the back end.

That was something that was kind of interesting to me. So I think that, you know, on both ends for Philadelphia, it seemed like doing just enough to get out of this thing is kind of the approach on both on offense and defense. The only other personnel note I had was watching. watching Chelsea Gardner Johnson get that pick in the middle of the field. Yeah. And navigating, you know, what I call the wave concept, two posts on one side and an over route coming from the opposite in. I was like, wow, that was like real high level safety shit, dude.

And playing the posts like that. I made the exact, it was almost like he baited him into it because he's trying, he's playing both of them at the same time, but he's got his eyes on the quarterback, the entire play. It was, it was beautiful. And I was like, okay, so that, that makes the bet on him being a capable safety, like cash money. I walked into the season a little frustrated at the idea of it because I really wanted to see him in the slot.

But the more that he's made plays like that around the middle of the field or up to seams, it's been like, all right, you guys saw something that I did not. And this looks really, really good. He needs to do it just enough. He has been impressive. He needs to do that just enough. He needs to be able to do that like a handful of times a game where you have to honor him as the post safety and not the down safety. That's just kind of what it feels like.

And then every, I mean, he made, he made that play. Redick had another sack today, or yesterday. Every, every week, it's just one of these other guys that they got this off season and making a big play. Redick is, I don't know how you feel about this, but I watch him, his power is just so surprising to me for a guy that weighs 240 pounds. Like, the fact that he can just really go to that long arm or speed the power move and just bowl people over when he wants to just makes him so incredibly dangerous.

with dangerous with how explosive and bendy he is. It's so odd. I mean, with him and Brandon Graham, right? Like you talk about guys from a build perspective to be able to turn speed to power as effectively as they do. And it's consistent week over week.

A lot of these sacks are not, you know, bending off the edge or intricate hand and hip usage. A lot of that is just lining up as a nine technique. So outside of the tight end and tearing off up the field and generating enough strength, you know, able to drop that long arm into somebody's chest and take all the air out of the pocket. And I think rush moves like that work particularly well against an offense and a quarterback

like Kyler Murray, who was probably looking for the door out of the pocket based on the way that they call this offense more often than not. You know, I have one other little weird note that, you know, and this comes up every time that I'm watching Arizona and this is separate from that point. It's I always leave games with the Cardinals, especially the ones where they lose. And I'm like, was this offense like built this week to attack this particular defense? Or was this the package of plays that we just like? It's hard not to kind of have that thought watching the way that they call offense.

And Cliff can just be hilarious sometimes. You know, one thing that kind of stood out to me is a sequence of plays where they go one by three, as Nate describes it. So you have a tight end on one end, three wide receivers to the opposite end, five down linemen showing that kind of five, two box. and they get a really good run off of it. Most teams, you know, if you get a good run off or something like that, maybe you go tempo, but you go to like your two minute type of tempo,

which is we already have 11 personnel on the field. So we're just going to get into a base 11 personnel look, and maybe we're going to run some kind of quick screen or quick throw or hand it off again out of like some condensed set. For Cliff, he gets into the same formation. Everybody's in the exact same spot. And I think they threw a tunnel screen that got blown up right after that. And I'm like, I feel like I'm watching like my scout film,

when I'm getting ready to play against the high school offense sometimes. Like, oh, play work, formation work, get right back on the ball. And let's go to a screen because of run worked. And then if the screen works, let's go to a play action off of that to see if we can hit them down the field. So there's just these still just these really weird and kind of funny quirks within this offense that leaves me feeling like things are disjointed. And that has been the word that I've used with Cliff Kingsbury and his error calling offense here. This is a team that was a misfield goal away from potentially sending this thing to overtime.

and it's because the clock operator or the scoreboard operator in the stadium gave them the wrong down and distance. I've had that guy. How quickly do you think you leave the stadium under those circumstances? He's never to be heard from again. He's just like, you know what? Tim and the Golden State Warriors training staff that sent that video to TMZ. They were both going into Witsack.

Well, at least that guy probably got a nice chunk of cash that he can scound off to wherever. I mean, he's in Cabo right now. This dude, I'm sure he's just looking at it, be like, is it really? really worth it to go back? Like, what do I really lose? Like, I just go find another job somewhere. I'm sure it'll be fine. I can't look these people in the eyes ever again.

Never again. And I think that's, it speaks to just how overwhelming that Eagles performance was the fact that it was that close, that it's one spike ball, one misfield goal from a backup kicker away from potentially going that way. That's kind of what happens when you play with that. You know, we're just kind of try to get out of here and go home sort of mentality in the NFL, especially against the defense that can be this volatile. and I think can be this difficult to play against.

Honestly, it was a little bit worried watching that week one game against Kansas City, because I think Fance Joseph has done a really good job over the last few years that he's been here. They've made some weird personnel decisions with how they've spent all those first round picks on linebackers. And even though it does look from the outside, like they've spent a decent amount of resources on the defense, the pieces cohesively do not fit together in a way that makes sense. But this is still a guy who is somehow manufacturing top 10 defense pretty much year in a year out and then you watch what they're doing right now and it's like we're just going to turn this thing all the way up to 12 and just say fuck it like that's our best shot right now and it's going okay for

them like they are a difficult defense to play against right now as evidenced by the fact that the eagles clearly thought they had to go into a shell to just kind of play four quarters and get this thing out of here yeah i'm i'm still i still and this is year over year i do not know what to do with the stock football team because they can do just enough in these six situations, particularly defensively, I think, to keep real criticism at bay. And, you know, this is all just inevitably leading to another, you know, horrible stretch of football where I'm right back where we always are with this football team. So I still don't know exactly where to place them, but I did like the fact that they were

able to hang. And there was really no disaster plays from Arizona throughout the game outside of that pick early by, by Chauncey Gardner Johnson. All right. We're going to take one more quick break and then we're going to hit Seahawks Saints and get out of here. Here's the deal. I've got a hangover. Who knows what that means?

All right. I know they lost this game. But Gino Smith just makes like four or five throws a game now where it's like, what the hell just happened? I have never been in a point in time of my life where I've watched a Gino Smith-led team get scored on late in the game and thought, ah, you left him too much time. I think you might have left Gino a little bit too much time.

And that's where I was at watching that Saints game. I could just tick them off. There was the touchdown to D.K. Right at the beginning. There's both locket touchdowns. Both locket touchdowns are like the best, the best throw a quarterback will make over the course of the season where both of the touchdowns of Tyler Lockett. He had the fucking missile shot down the left sideline on the move to DK. No, excuse me.

That was the Disley, I think. Or no, fans. It was a no fan on the left side line. He's on the move. I'm like, what is happening right now? And of course, they lose the game. Right. Yeah.

So honestly, in a lot of ways, it's like if you're Seattle, Perfect. Our quarterback played great. And we got closer enough to getting a high draft pick. Couldn't be better. And the Broncos are a disaster. We could have two picks in the top 10. Yes,

can be mad at that. But, yeah, I mean, again, it is just what Gino is doing from the pocket just defies logic in the NFL. Like, not only are we talking about climbing the pocket

and delivering under pressure. We saw that all last week against the Lions, right? And that was something that was a big deal I've been talking about. And then you saw in this game, we saw like moving pockets, It's like bootlegs where he's stoned the ball from moving platforms. And I'm like, why is this on time and perfect still?

You are not this kind of quarterback. I don't understand what is happening here. And then you get, I think the first post ball was the one that just like had my eyes falling out of my head. Like, wow, like two hitches, perfect climb in the pocket. And you deliver the ball right over the top where nobody but your receiver could get it. And then to be able to show up in the second half late in the game and be able to deliver another one of those. I don't have words because none of this is tracking with the way that I would like to believe that football actually works.

As a defensive coach, I'm not sure if you watched all 22 of those plays. I did not have time. I only watched the broadcast version of it. Is that a moment where you're like, guys, what the hell are we doing here? Or do you just kind of tip your cap being? Those are two perfect throws. I don't know what else we're really supposed to do about that. The first one, you can kind of say, hey, man, we didn't get home.

Perfect pocket, perfect ball. shouldn't have happened but hey great job offense the second one is probably the one where it's like all right guys what the hell now like what's going on because i want to say the first one if i remember right might have been like a tampa two look if i remember properly um and then i think the second one was against cover three or cover one so it's like we have a post guy for the post throw and a post ball just got completed for a touchdown here i don't know what's going on so yeah that one was that one was the one that one was the one that boggled the mind was late in the game against, I think, a coverage that should have handled it much better and still get it delivered like that. I don't have, I don't have an easy answer to that. There's no coverage call to fix. You're just getting beat in the coverage that's supposed to work against whatever got thrown on you. And this is a, we're living in a world now with a margin for error for the Cocks is so small that if they don't score on a possession, you start to get worried. So the fact that their punter just decided not to punt a football at one point,

who gave the same to ball on the 30 yard line. That was great. B.K. Fumble inside their own 35. If you're the Seahawks at this point and that happens, it's pretty much over. You don't really have a chance. Yeah, you can't afford any of this, especially when apparently Seattle's defense does not know the same package of like six plays

that Taysam Hill has been running since he's been this wildcat quarterback. I don't know what else you're supposed to do about that. You can't fumble the ball, can't have those fourth down mishaps, you know, in punt situations if you're also not going to be able to fit the run against the single wing the way that New Orleans. was in in the second half of this game. I mean, just that nice little wrinkle, right?

All the runs, all the runs, all the runs, one throw, and it's a touchdown. And that's what the, I mean, this offense, we talk about just an offense that has to cobble something together right now. That's where the Saints are. And I was, on defense, I do want to give, you know, the Saints Seahawks offense is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination. I think the Gino Smith is playing pretty well. But Cam Jordan is still a mismatch for Abe Lukis at this stage of their careers.

So they got just enough pressure on some moments in this. game to really create some problems outside of the couple mistakes slash turnovers that the Seahawks had. And then on the other side of the ball, I'm fascinated that if you're Seattle and you're looking at this offense that has Andy Dalton and hasn't really figured itself out and is out most of its receiving options and then Chris Oliva gets hurt and almost all of them, the Seahawks blitzed on 55% of the Saints dropbacks in this game. They were the most blitz-happy team in the league this weekend after being like 25th over the first month. What about this Saints team if you're the defensive brain trust over there where you're like, this is it. Like this is how

we're going to get back on track on defense. Andy Dahl was 10 of 15 against the blitz in this game for let me look it up really quick. 10 of 15 for 140 yards and was not sacked when they blitzed and they blitzed all of the time. It was really weird to watch. Which is it, it is double disappointing when it's not just like your regular run-of-the-mill, you know, 3-3-under-fire zone blitz. Like they were playing zero on some of these blitzes and not getting home. I was like, oh, this is a sad, this is a sad state of affairs for Seattle's defense when you're sending more than the offense can block. And Andy Dalton is still carving you up, which is really disappointing because like one of the

other things I walked away from this game with is like, woolen can really go. Yeah. Willing can really go. That juice is real. and he actually might really be a playmaker on the ball. And that, that I think was a big deal is a big deal for them. I think that Kobe Bryant is definitely somebody who can kind of fit in as a piece of secondary as well.

I thought he looked okay. But for the play calling then to go, I think, devolved later and later into the game with more blitzes, more bringing six, more cover zero, more, you know, man free where you've got no whole player underneath. I didn't understand why you would give Dalton the benefit. of a pass rest that you know can't get home, blitzes that aren't getting you free rushers and man coverage along the middle, in the middle of the field where he can just deliver the ball with basically no strain or stress at all. I think in a lot of ways defensively,

they kind of handed this game to New Orleans on a platter. What do you think about just the state of the Seahawks defense at this point? Is this a, this team is kind of rebuilding and even the players they did spend on aren't really playing and this isn't something to be concerned about. it's a multi-year project. Are we in a space where this is kind of supposed to be what they do? And it just should look better than this, even if you're not in love with the personnel on that side of the ball.

I just don't really know how to make heads or tails of what the defense is over there right now and why it's so bad and whether I should be worried. Personally, for me, I felt like I kind of walked into this with good enough clarity on it. I remember we reviewed this or previewed this division together before the season started, right? And the optimist in you will throw some names out. like, oh, they have Quentin Jefferson. They have Al Woods. You have these 300 plus pound guys who can be your nose tackle and four eyes and these

odd fronts. And that's all great in theory. And then you turn on the tape and it's like, wow, even the New Orleans offensive line, which has not been very good this season, it's just walking guys off the ball and outside zone. And it's just a reminder that it's not good enough to just be big. If you're big and can't move, then you're just big guys who are. just big guys who can't move. And I thought that that makes, I think, Jordan Brooks a worst player,

just our linebackers and second level of defense in general, worst player. And I think that's where you get led to situations where you're saying, we've just got to send the entire kitchen sink at an offense if we're going to have any hope of making plays in the backfield. You know, the times that they did rush for, I'm looking at pockets that aren't even being affected in the slightest by this pass rush, whether it's stunts or twists or straight ahead rushes or trying to create some different looks up front where maybe you can force a protection to be checked a certain way. They're just not affecting the core of the formation at all. And if you look at the bodies and the names, that shouldn't be a shock. So on one end, I think people are probably having a hard time

with looking at Seattle, you know, with the reputation of what they've had defensively go through this philosophical shift. And I think that there was maybe an assumption that with this philosophical shift, that they had the pieces to make that move now and it was going to give them better results right this second. But the truth of the matter is that they don't have the edge challenge. The defensive interior is decent at best, average at best, and probably more replacement level realistically. And that's what they look like defensively to me, especially when they're trying to defend the run. So right now they're 25th in edge spending. Uh, That includes Puna Ford, which he shouldn't be in there.

So I assume when you look at the actual guys on the edge, it's going to be even lower than that. Probably like in the bottom three. Yeah. And then at corner, they're 30th in the average cap dollar spent at that position this season. I mean, obviously, they're playing a bunch of rookies. It makes a lot of sense. So that's kind of why my thought is, eh, it doesn't matter. Like this is a transition year.

They're not spending a ton of resources over there. We'll see what it looks like when they start to weaponize some of these picks. and really start to rebuild it. But at the same time, they've been just unbelievably bad on that side of the ball, like really, really bad. And so I think that, you know, the Saints offense will see what happens as,

Andy Dalton's their quarterback right now. Again, Chris Olavet comes out of this game after making a ridiculous touchdown catch. That was a scary play. But an incredible play by him. And he's been making one or two of those a game. But now this is the team of the receiving options. Like, oh, what's happening right now?

And most of their offense in this game was, you know, Tassum Hill and then one screen to Alvin, Camara. They did fine against a terrible Seahawks defense, but I think still a lot of questions. I'm wondering where you are with the Saints defense right now. I think that it's still just enough to be maybe not the highest level of Saints defense, but I think it's still just enough to keep them competitive week over week. I will say that one of the things that I kind of walked away with in this game was watching Abe Lucas and Charles Cross kind of handle those power rushers as decently as they did in spite of, you know, I think the few reps that Lucas lost, that kind of

reminded me that like, okay, Cameron is kind of losing, you know, losing a step a bit, you know, or I think that attrition is coming. Those dudes are all like 30 something. Yeah, you know, Tyron Matthew is a guy in his 30s that's taking a lot of punishment, you know, it looks like it sometimes. And they've lost Marcus Williams, you know, you try not to beat the same drum too hard, but at certain points, when you look at some of the explosive passes, they're giving up where else would that lead you except to these things used to not happen when we had our stars and when our star guys that we have now were younger and I think a little bit more spry. So I think it's just general attrition.

But I think that they've hung pretty well for what the situation is, you know, dealing with some of the offenses that they've dealt with. I thought that Minnesota played them really well after not being all that hot the weeks prior. And I thought that they handled them relatively decently. and then this week to have another Gino game the way that they did. And I think that they did just enough in terms of turnover variance to escape with this one. I'm not ready to completely cast them aside yet if this offense is going to be able to run the ball just well enough to keep them in football games or at least shrink the game. So where they're not on the field all the time.

Yeah, I just, again, I'm not sure exactly what to make of them. Like even in a watered down NFC, like can they be a wildcar team? Is the defense good enough to get them there? I don't know. I don't have a definitive answer on that, you know, quite yet. Shitty news about Rashad Penny. I mean, this guy's just a really good running back when he's on the field. He's out for the year with a broken leg now.

You know, they have Kenneth Walker who obviously had a splash play in this game. You know, we'll get to see a lot of him. A combination of the two of them would have been. It would have been awesome. So it's a lose penny is a huge bummer. And then speaking to Marcus Williams,

now he's going to be out for most of the years. He's got a dislocated wrist. I mean, it's just, we're losing all the guys I want to watch, which is just a bummer. But, you know, this is the NFL season and this is how it goes.

So at least we have Gino Smith. At least all of us have Gino Smith at this point. That's all I'm all in on Gino, man. All in on Gino. That's all we need. All right. That is all we have for today. For those of you who really wanted some Washington football talk,

there's a Thursday night game this week, baby. We'll get there. Titans are on by, I believe, this week. But I would like to revisit the Titans at some point. I think obviously that this is a division that is completely up for grabs, a team that doesn't really do anything great, continues to win games. I think that's a testament to them,

even if it's against bad teams. So worth revisiting, we will do that over the next couple weeks at some point. You guys can blame Carolina and Matt Ruhl for taking up that time. So for now, that is all we have. Really appreciate you guys listening. We will be back later this week. We're going to do a show on all the receiver movement that happened this offseason,

what it's meant so far for the teams that made the trays, what it's meant for the teams that lost those guys. excited to dig into that conversation. In the meantime, if you guys could subscribe to our YouTube channel. If you're watching this on YouTube, just click the button. If you're listening to this as a podcast, it is in the podcast description. So you can go and do that. If you have not, we're doing a ton of YouTube content this year.

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