The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - NFL Week 6 Recap — Bills top Chiefs, Eagles beat Cowboys, NFC flops, and more

Episode Date: October 17, 2022

The Game of the Year lived up to the hype, with the Bills and the Chiefs spending the entire 60 minutes within a one-score window. Ultimately, it was the Bills who were just a bit better on this given Sunday, a fact that Robert Mays and Nate Tice dig into on this episode of The Athletic Football Show. The guys also discuss the Eagles win over the Cowboys, flops from a trio of supposed contenders in the NFC, the continued success of the Jets and Giants, and more.Follow Robert on Twitter: @robertmaysFollow Nate on Twitter: @Nate_TiceSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTube2:38 Bills-Chiefs24:18 Cowboys-Eagles34:28 Giants and Falcons zag where everyone else zigs44:08 The Patriots have our attention55:16 The Jets have our attention68:28 Failings of the supposed NFC contenders80:03 We See You, Ja'Marr Chase82:03 Last words on Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays, joining me tonight. It's my good friend Nate Tice. Nate, how you doing, buddy? Doing well, we're almost one-third of the way through the season. One game to go, and then we're one-third of the way, because I just can't do the season without knocking it out in quarters or chunks.

So I'm just going to go with one-third because that's just really, sounds really smooth, you know, coming off. We got the thirds. I do have a thirdly season award. article coming out this week. So maybe this is just my way to add. Yeah, right? My way to advertise it.

So there we go. There are great weeks and there are not so great weeks with the schedule makers over the course of an NFL season. And this was a great week. We had Bill's Chiefs that we will absolutely dig into. We're going to talk about the Eagles Cowboys game that we just saw. Talk about a couple of the teams that are zigging where everyone else is zagging, Zagging where everyone else is zigging.

And we really have enjoyed watching that. We're going to talk about the Jets and what they did to the Packers and what that might mean for the greater NFC playoff picture. But I want to start with on paper the game of the year. The bills go back to Arrowhead, talked about it on Thursday's

show, what that game was in the playoffs last year, what that show was that those two quarterbacks put on. And not the same crazy sort of finish, not all of the points that we might have expected. But I would argue that those guys put on the sort of show that I

wanted to see from both of them. it was almost like a dunk contest where it's like one guy made a throne and it's like ooh and then the other guy made it thrown you're like oh like that's all it felt like I when we we break down these games before we do the show and I watched every snap of that game but then rewatched it again like the replay and it was taking me forever to get through it because I wanted to clip so many plays like I felt the exact same way it was taking me forever because I was like oh my God look at this oh that's cool but also not only just these two juggernauts and Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes going at it, but it was some really cool kind of like

schematic twists and that's what happens. Those old Patriots Colts games used to be awesome between Belichick and Manning. And I just say Manning because that's what those Colts teams were. But just between Belichick and Manning and like just because they were always the one, they always finished first in the division. So they were playing each other every year. It didn't matter how the rotation of the schedule. But watching those like just little tweaks every game that they would do against each other.

That's how this is starting to feel. And we're going to dive into. do it, I'm sure. But there was a couple, especially from the bills on offense and defense where it's like, oh, that's interesting. They're already throwing these changeups in. And we got a little bit of that that hectic action at the end of the last year's game. But this year, we got in the first half. So it was almost like perfect at the regular season. We just got in the first half. We got like 120-something yards of offense in like a minute. So we got kind of like just like a half little like defibrillator on our heart. Not that the full, full juice up action today. There were a couple

stretches, like two to three play stretches in this game, that you watch these two guys and you just realize that they're on a different planet. And with Allen, it was near the end of the game for me. He hit a whole shot up the left side line. Excuse me, this is the drive before, but he hit a whole shot up the left sideline and Dawson Knox at one point. That was insane. But at the end of the game, the end of the game, there's a three play stretch. I think it was four plays. It was like a little post corner stop to Diggs where he fires like a missile shot like 30 yards. And he's, you know, into the air with digs sitting in between three guys. The next play is the play where he hurdles the guy along the right side line, where it's a design run.

Then there's one yard for like one run for like one yard and then he throws the touchdown in Dawson Knox. Which was insane. It's an insane throw. The ball placement on it is just absolutely ridiculous. So that's three plays. That's three plays over the course of a four play stretch where that happens. The drive where Mahomes finished it off with a touchdown to Hardman, if you watch Mahomes, is pocket movement on the two plays preceding the touchdown to Harmon.

He has a scramble for a first down and then he somehow gets out of it and scrambles for like two yards to get them to the three. And then the way he bounces in the pocket and moves up in the pocket to finish off that drive to Hardman, these are three play stretches, quarters, runs that no one else on the planet is capable of. And when you're watching these two teams, it's just apparent all the time that the places their offense can go are different than the places most of the other offenses in the league can go. And the stat I tweeted out during the game was these two teams were first and second in the

NFL and conversion rate on third and eight or more of this season. Chiefs were at like 47 percent, which is totally unsustainable and absolutely ridiculous. But the bills were second at like 39%. These guys also are bottom five, bottom seven in sack rate. They don't throw many interceptions. There are no negative plays. And when there are some negative plays, these are the two quarterbacks that can erase them in a single moment. You get to first and 20 if you're the chiefs on that cheap PI, and it doesn't even matter. That happens all the time.

And that's just my takeaway after I step back and really think about this game is that these two guys are on another planet right now, and that means these two teams are really a step above everybody else. Absolutely. When you watch like even the Eagles tonight, like their third launch can be exhausting because they are always a four down team. because they're short yards, run game, so good. These guys, it's third and long.

They're going for 10 yards, 20 yards past the sticks. It's not to get okay to the fourth and two. Sometimes they are, but it's like, no, they're hunting for big plays always. And I mean, just that play that you, both plays you brought up there. So the Mahomes went to Hardman. These guys break the rules so much. And that's why even against a, like, Mahomes going against this top tier, Bill's defense and whatever you feel about the chief's defense, they can give a lot of guys issues is they break the. those rules of the coverage. The touchdown to Hardman, it was a four strong concept. So four guys

going to one side, Kelsey's lined up one-on-one. They ran as like a little slug-up. So on those reeds, those are taught on those four strong concepts like this is if I have a one-on-one, I'm taking it. Usually you're going to take Kelsey in a one-on-one. Like that's kind of, that makes sense to me. It's not some no-name guy out there. So my home's okay, hurry, broke the rule already. I'm not going to take my one-on-one. I'm going to go to the four man side. The bills pass it off beautifully. They cover every, that's so hard to do in the low red zone. Boom, boom, boom. Every guy's covered. All right. My home's just going to buy some time. One Mississippi, two Mississippi. And then he makes the throw. So that's a rule breaker right there. The digs one they brought up that Josh Allen hits. If you notice both sides of the ball, both of these guys a lot, they'll run kind of these sale concepts, but the guys are getting targeted in between the numbers and the hash. So they almost stop short of a whole shot. And like in between it's because, uh, uh, Kelsey also had one. That Kelsey won against Milano was almost the exact same kind of idea after the past interference.

Mahomes and Kelsey have gotten some really good chemistry on those. They've started trickling more and more. Those guys can get away with it because they're so freaking good. That is such a hard throw. You're throwing a location throw against zone coverage. Most times you're playing zone coverage. It's like what? What I always say, that middle high, lows?

You're hitting right over in front, right in front of you. Not 20 yards to the field in between three guys. Those, that's breaking rules. Like, it's, these defenses have gotten so good with how their corners sink and kind of mixing together the quarters with the cover two kind of rules in a little bit, like a little bit of ways. And they're breaking those rules. They're just saying, oh, yeah, your guy wants to sink. Screw you. I'm going to hit right in front of them.

There's a 20-yard game. Good luck. Nice time. And they do it just over and over and over. There's another one I tweeted was Josh Allen hits a dig, a deep dig to Stefan Diggs. 27 yards flat footed, he throws it. The ball never sinks. It just lines the whole way.

and he hits him on this deep dig. When you throw a backside deep dig, the aiming point for the quarterback's the hash. And really it's more like just in front of the hash. He completes this when digs is at the numbers. The chiefs have a safety driving on this dig. He is, that is his rule. He is driving on this dig to blow that exact throw up. And Josh Allen flatfooted throws this ball before the safety can even get there.

Those are rule breaking throws. It's just insane. They do these throws 10 times a game. And on top of it, they can run. run for first downs. They're totally on a different level and what they can do. It's so much fun to watch. I'm sure people are thinking about this.

It was a 24 to 20 game. Like you guys were that enthralled by the quarterback play. Yes. There's a lateral fumble by Isaiah McKenzie. The chiefs or the bills go for it on fourth down and don't get it. The chiefs miss the field goal. Mahomes threw interception in the end zone because these guys are going for broke in this game.

They know what it's going to take to win this game. And there's no holding back in those moments. And that's how you end up with something like this while the teams are consistently moving the ball. So the bills obviously win this game, which is huge for potential home field advantage stuff. Also just after what happened last year, I think you need one of these every once in a while to be like, all right, we can handle this team. Like we can go in there and we can beat this team. So we're talking about those schematic tweaks, quirks, however you want to put it. What little things do you think the bills solved today that you were impressed by in real time?

There's a couple and I'm really excited. Really excited here. I got numbers and we'll, well, little schematic stuff. So one was the use, the bills used 12 personnel, which is two tight ends, seven times tonight. The entire weeks one through five, they used it five times total. They used it seven times tonight. And how they were using it was really cool, just ace formation, dot formation, which is a balanced look with two tight downs each side, two receivers on each side. They had some runs out of it.

They had, they did a pinpole out of it. They also did it naked where freaking what's his name. Tommy Sweeney is getting a catch. I had to look up as not. I was like, who the hell is Tommy Sweeney? I'm sorry. I have to look you up. But, okay, so they're running that.

But what you notice is that makes the chiefs get into base personnel. They had three linebackers, just in a stack old school four three look. It was actually kind of funny to see. And they're also, when you're breaking down, when defenses break down to offenses, they group 12 and 21 as the same kind of. They're like, okay, you're in pro personnel. And they were in pro personnel, the bills were tonight on a third of their snaps, which is a season high.

To put it in perspective, two weeks ago against the Ravens, they were in pro personnel on 3% of their snaps. So they just used it on 24 snaps. They got 0.31 EPA out of those snaps. And that was just a cool little, hey, this is what we can get this defense to do. And the fact that they can rotate their offense, that was something that we were having issues with the bills last year was

they were going too light. And now it's like, oh, no, we can sprinkle on this balance looks. It's awesome. For context, 0.31 is about what Mahomes is leading the league. with. So it's the most efficient passing offense in football with point three. Yes. And they're, doing on every point. That's a coon of the runs. I mean, and there was point. The running game actually looked okay today. They were doing some interesting stuff. They had a really interesting run where they fake the pinpole and Morse reversed course back the other way. They ran a little like pitch out.

And it's a mind. Gabe Davis got called for a hold, but it was beautiful. And like, so they're getting guys on the move. I did like a lot of the stuff they're doing in the run game. And they're, obviously the run game has been struggling a lot this year. I, and I can also. tell just that they watched the Bengals games against the Chiefs last year because that Gabe Davis touchdown near the end of the half, which I'm going to be breaking down for wind of the clock because of the protection on that. And the bills in it did a seven-man protection, which is the running back in the tight end and not full sliding it. And when you want to get in a seven-man protection, and actually the bills caught the Chief's offense out of this, the bills don't

run this that much. They'll run it sometimes. They sprinkle it in. But the Bengals started running this in the second half of last year, and they caught the same chiefs, same location of the field on a third down pressure. And this one was in two minutes. It was called it third down. Caught it up and he threw a go ball for a touchdown. It was deja vu all over again. Like they blocked this up perfectly.

Tighten got Reed running back. I want to say it was Singletary on the play. Got the other DB that was blitzing. They got their guys. So they were able to wot it up and he hit the go ball for a touchdown. It's gash or be gash. And when you have a backup corner in there, it's like, ooh, that's a perfect type of game or type of type of play to do.

I mean, there was a pressure on the digs touchdown too. I mean, both of those times. He started 0 for seven against the Blitz. And I believe he was six of his next seven for about 100 yards and two touchdowns. Oh my God. And that's the thing.

They said, okay, we're going to protect it up. Rather than throwing hot and get it out quick, they went, no, they went with the other way, let's block it up and hit you deep.

And they hit him deep a few times. And we'll get into what the bill's defense day against the chief's offense. But it was, that was a really impressive to me was being able to, change their point of attack and look of attack the bill's offense and getting the chiefs in bad looks for them, less ambitatious looks for them and taking advantage of it. And they did it throughout the game. They adjusted throughout the game.

That's what the bills like coaching staff does all over and over and over. Well, you mentioned that could have learned from what the Bengals did against the Chiefs last year. I assume they learned again what the Bengals off defense did against the Chiefs in those games last year because they were dropping eight more in this game. They were doing some funky different coverages. It does seem like they were willing to play outside of themselves. a little bit defensively as well.

A lot of man coverage, a lot of cover two. They changed up everything they did. The bills have been running more cover two. Going to this week was about 20% compared to two years ago or last year, I should say, it was 5%. So it's way huge uptick. A ton of cover two, but they also brought some man pressures. They also just ran straight up cover one.

Like when they were dropping eight, the, the bill's defense dropped eight. They've only dropped eight, I think, what was it, 2% this entire year? Yeah, 2% of their snaps this entire. year have they dropped eight tonight they dropped down one out five snaps 21% of the snaps against the chiefs and they ran cover two mostly behind it but they also ran one robber out of it they ran two man out of it which is what got the bangles were doing last year and they're just double teaming kelsey basically so they were really mixing up right we say that sometimes going against these top tier quarterbacks you have to throw to kitchen sink at them it's suicide to blitz of a bunch and

suicide to stay in the same coverage so they said screw it we're going to run everything and the other thing that I thought was interesting is they ran dime personnel a whole bunch of times. Those extra drop eight looks, they were in a three to six personnel package, three defense alignment, two linebackers and six DBEs. And they did it on two thirds of their third downs or seven out of eleven of their third downs today were in dime personnel, which is just something. That's a new twist. They have only been in dime.

They haven't been in dime this entire year. And they ran it to like they ran it multiple times tonight, which I thought was super interesting. And that last play, the last pick was another example of the spy stuff working with Matt Milano, who's playing outstanding, where it gives Von Miller a two-way go. He can rush however he wants. I can go inside because I know if Mahomes bails out, Milano's going to come around as my edge contain. You're basically just standing up the edge contain guy so he can go to either side. And now the D-Ns have two-way goes. And so now if they want to provide chip help like the chiefs were doing, now Von Miller can go inside and not have to worry about it because here comes the outside help.

really it's just an awesome defensive game plan and offensive game plan from the bills and they executed so so well it gets a really good chief's team what was different between who the bills are now and who they were in that game last year in the division round bond miller's a huge part of that and i mean he finishes off to insanely important plays that third and six sack where the i mean the dip on that to get to the rip move against wiley well homes is a little bit deep and he's drifting a little bit so that's not all on wiley but there there's one particular a defensive line drill where you watch where you're actually grabbing a towel off the ground as you run the hoop. And it's literally practicing getting as low as you can to the ground. You're touching the ground because you're trying to dip that shoulder so low.

And that Von Miller is dipping his hand all the way to the ground there when he's going against while. He's nothing can do about that. The way his body bends is just impossible to deal with. And then the sack he had on the spin move, that sets up that final drive that they had before the half. If that sack doesn't happen, they might even get the ball back. that people one of my favorite things about these quarterbacks is that there are so many plays that happen over the course of the game that you'll never remember they're not the game deciding play

they're not the highlight real play but they're the plays that quietly make these guys the best players in the world and there was a third and 13 on that last bills drive before the half when it finished off with the touchdown to Gabe Davis where there was third 13 in the shadow their own go post they're on like their own two and Alan drifts to his right just a little bit but then stops on a dime before stepping up and just fires one to Davis on third and 13.

And just like those plays, they happen all the time. They're like five or six of them a game that these guys, maybe one or two other people in the world can make and they give them their teams a chance constantly by doing this stuff. And you're never going to think about those plays again,

but they happen constantly. And this game was full of those plays. Oh, my God. from your own one yard line and you're extending the play and ripping those. It's just, it's when the defense has, or the other team has an advantage on you. And you're not only getting back to neutral. You're creating a positive place. It's the biggest swings.

We talk about swings from a penalty or swings from a turnover, like a pick six. You know, but just think of the yardage swings that these guys do constantly. Okay, rather than punning now, backed up and wow, they're going to get great field position, probably at midfield. now we're getting a first down on top of it. We're not even just getting out of our own end zone. Like they just do it over and over. Like that, okay,

so the drop eight and I just want to bring it up because I want to compliment my homes because this throw was ridiculous. It's one of the coolest. There was like three throws tonight, maybe four that should be highlights. And we, we will never talk about them outside of like Knox's touchdown. And it was the sale route to Skymore that I already talked about.

But they're dropping eight. They're running one robber. And one robber. So the corner has inside leverage, or sorry, outside leverage on more because this helps come from the inside. So he runs this deep sail route. Mahomes, it's to his right. He's backing to his left. So he's going all the way to opposite side.

And in rhythm, whips the sail route that's about 18 yards down the field all the way to the opposite of sideline, essentially, puts it on a line, perfect ball place in the sky more. He catches it and gets yards after the catch. It's like feathery touch. Like the touch on that ball and just like how he feathers it right over the. It's insane. It's fake. It's, that shouldn't be possible. As soon as he gets knocked back, his eye should go to a checkdown.

Like, that's how you're usually taught. It's like, oh, I'm knocked off the platform, checking it down. No, he's still attacking and hitting a deep sail route against robber where, you know, that guy has outside leverage. Like, good job by Skymore winning. The guy still had great coverage on him. And he just makes a great throw. Like, it's, you can't defend it.

You can't defend that stuff. It's insane what these guys can do. It's amazing. It's awesome. Like, it's like, we should just appreciate. this every week, all these highlights that we get to see. It's the coolest stuff. Putting a button on this, I mean, I think my takeaway is that these guys are going to be there

at the end. Like, we're cruising towards, we're on a collision course for these two teams playing against each other when we get there in the AFC championship game. And hopefully by that point, no disrespect to him, but like Joshua Williams isn't playing. And we have these teams closer to full strength. Like, the Chiefs lost this game, but it's the bounce of the ball two different ways. And I feel like with the way these are both set up right now, both of them,

that's how it's going to feel every time. they play against each other. Yep. They're going to be, they're going to be given their best. Like, we don't have to worry about these two teams going to like, is this going to be a bad game from them?

No, it's the elite teams thrown aimakers at each other. It's awesome. The last thing I want to say, I, every time I watch them play with each other, and every time I really sit down and watch the bill's offense, I thank God that Stefan Diggs got traded to the bills.

Not because, just because they are such a perfect marriage. Yeah. Like, them kind of pushing forward the best versions of their football selves together. Like there's a sliding doors moment where Stefan Diggs is just never a bill. We never see what this is with them together. And I just love it.

Like what they can do together is absolutely insane. They have this mind-meld thing now where they're just making plays out of structure or its advantage throws in run looks where they know exactly what they're doing, the timing that they both have. I just don't appreciate it enough. I am grateful that that pairing now exists because of three or four different things falling into place. The mind mill is such an important thing because how much they ad lib and the fact that they never look wonky. There's never one.

It's like, oh, he missed him again. Watch the Packers sometimes and him like Aaron Rogers now trying to throw all these kind of trick shots to guys. They're going all over the place because he has no rhythm with these guys, no chemistry. No, these two are just, they're insane because how much they ad lib, Diggs is able to slow down or speed up. and Josh Allen just makes these perfect throws. It's, it's, and really, my homes and Kelsey kind of have that going on too. Oh, absolutely. I totally agree that like, I'm glad Diggs is there because as fun as some of these other players are for the bills, it's always nice when you have that true number one alpha, even if he's not built like how we picture an alpha guy.

But neither of them are, right? Like Stefan Diggs is a bill like that. Travis Kelsey is a tight end. But that's the thing you're talking about where it's that kind of half whole shot that's actually a little bit further inside. the spacing and timing on that has to be perfect for it to work. And these two pairings of guys, Mahomes to Kelsey and Allen to Diggs, hit that throw multiple times in this game. It's a type of thing that only happens when you're completely in sync with one another,

and that's what these guys are. There's so much danger on those throws. So much danger. Guy leaks from the inside, guy leaks from the outside, you know, like a corner drops in. The hook defender comes in. The cover two safety can squeeze down on it. Like there's just so much danger, and they do it constantly. every game. Like, when I was with the Raiders, we were trying to go for one of these throws,

I guess the Dolphins at the time, 2017. And we're like, okay, we got to complete, we got to play one of these. Like, we were trying to get one of these types of throws just to move down on third and extra long because of the coverage they played. And they do constantly, they do like once a drive. And it's, those are such hard throws. And they make it look so easy. And that's why we don't make a big deal of it usually. All right. Let's get to our next kind of game of the week here. The Eagles handle the Cowboys. Eagles. now six and O commanding lead here. Well, not commanding lead.

They're only one game on the Giants in the NFC East. But the Eagles are in the number one seed in the NFC right now, the only undefeated team left in the league. What did you leave this game thinking about the Eagles? That offense is just always going to have answers, even if it's not always, doesn't always look pretty. It's this team, like, it's just so hard to play them because if one guy botches, they run, their offense is very unique and very unique.

redundant way to go Nate but they're but they run this offense that has you know just the RPO answers like how many times you see AJ Brown just wide open in a flat route like I love him doing the slide on the RPO slide instead of it's awesome there do they have so many different wrinkles that they're throwing into this right now it's I want to compliment what they know what to lean into week and week out like every week they figure it out you know the Cardinals game got a little wonky in the second half but but most of the time they know what to lean into that week it's a offense that's built out of easy buttons. but I don't mean that in a bad sense. I mean, they know what their money plays are of that week and they just go, boom, bu, boom, boom, boom, boom. They just pound away at it until you stop it. And why not? They have good players. The run game is extremely sound.

They're passing game. It's not, yes, they run a ton of RPO's, but nothing is gimmicky. There's not, like, you watch the Ravens offense. And you're like, what the hell are you trying to do there? You watch this Eagles offense, even for me and never being in a heavy RPO offense, I can go, okay, I know who you're putting in the bind there. I know who you're reading there. because it's all very sound.

So sound offense, really good players, and they have answers. Like, if you want to play two-eye, we do this. If you want to run one-eye, you do this. You don't have a lot of speed. We'll do this. You do have a lot of speed, but not a lot of power. We'll do this. They're able to just change how they attack you.

It's really, really hard to stop on that offense. I was thinking about this the other day when I was thinking about the bear's offense and how I'm not overly disappointed with what the structure of it is. I do think that there's a little bit of square peg round holeing it going on just because they've dropped Justin Fields into like what is a version of the Packers offense to a certain extent. Right. The Eagles have completely reshaped. This is old hat. We've talked about this a million times before.

They've completely reshaped what they've done around the skill set of Jalen Hertz and the skill set of their players. And it's almost just I'm more incredibly impressed with their flexibility over the last 18 months than I am disappointed in a coaching staff that can't do this. And that's how I feel every time I watch the Eagles. And my prevailing thought after watching that game is that I'm a tiny bit worried about what the ceiling of the passing game is as we get over like an 18 to 20 game stretch. Hertz average 3.1 air yards per completion in this game. 3.1. He got blitzed on 48% of his dropbacks. And I do think teams are going to continue to do this.

And we'll see what happens with Lane Johnson and the timeline with that. but even if you have that concern in the back of your mind, it's an unbelievably impressive how this team can win in so many different ways on offense and defense. The offense can tap into whatever it needs given the situation when all those guys are healthy. Lane Johnson is one of the most important players on the Eagles offense, if not like a top three. I mean, we can stack them up if you want to. He's right there. He's in the conversation.

So if they lose him for any length of time, that flexibility starts to deteriorate a little bit. but they have that flexibility in offense and then their defense can win games for them. The Cowboys were able to sustain with Cooper Rush because they weren't turning the ball over. They were able to do just enough. And they got dismantled over the first two and a half quarters of this game by what the Eagles defense is on the back end.

The talent that they have at every single level, that's why they can win these games in so many different ways. And they feel like just such a complete team in the sense that because of their defense, they stay in good game scripts. The only one, like, was the Jags game, which, like, got switched on its head quickly, like, before halftime. So they didn't stay in that kind of negative game script that long. And that's the thing is that they know their offense is going to put together these drives and move the ball and just consistently do it.

So defense plays really aggressive. And you can see, like, they have a lot of hands on balls. There's a reason those tip balls become interceptions. Like, it's because the guys are near the ball. And they have guys at each level making plays. the linebackers are still question mark a little bit. I know they said like they, Collinsworth and everything gave like some shoutouts and stuff or whatever.

It's called Space Spade. Their DB room is great. So all these teams that against them have to pass the ball because their offense is putting up points and their DB rooms get the tee off on guys and they're played really sound. They don't really beat themselves. And that's kind of what this team is. They don't really beat themselves.

Like that they are kind of like keep coming at you, offense and defense. I agree with you as far as the offense. though, just real quick, is that then that's why I want to compliment the defense and why it's kind of a complete game by them is that they don't get into these negative situations where we have to see hurts dropping back. Like, even though third and extra extra long is not their ideal place. It's not ideal place for any offense, but especially for the Eagles.

They don't want to sit back and drop back. Like, that is just not how they're meant to win games, but credits of the defense for always keeping them games when the offense is struggling and the offense for always staying on schedule. Like, like, it's just, they just keep coming at you. It's a good team. It's a really good team. It's like the one blemishes, oh, they can't drop back.

And then you look at their schedule and you're like, okay, well, who's going to make them drop back? You got buy week, Steelers, Texans, commanders, Colts, Packers. Okay, there we go. Okay. So we got maybe then that Packers aren't some hot shot team at this point in time. So yeah, it's, I'm willing. I'm still waiting to see some team make them drop back 20 something times a game and we still haven't seen it. Watching the defense tonight and just thinking about how all those guys ended up on the defense.

the idea that James Bradbury was available to anyone. Anyone could have signed James Bradbury for a very reasonable amount of money. It was $7 million? Anybody. You think about how many teams around the league need corner help. Signed Reddick is on a $3 or $45 million deal.

The way that the deal was structured, his caput of $3.9 million this year and $6.7 million next year for what he has done for them this year. I mean, even when the way that they got Darius Slay, I've said this before, but I truly think that this. team does as good of a job as anybody at turning over every single rock to look for contributors.

The Maillata thing is part of that, being able to get him in the seventh round and him coming out today before the game and saying, I went to Jeff Stoughtlin University. That's exactly right. They've just been able to, the way that they've been able to develop players at hugely important positions because of somebody like Jeff Stoughton, their offensive line coach, the way that they've really tried to look under every single rock and turn it every single page to find players on defense to finish this thing off. They have weaponized the financial flexibility they have because of their

quarterback, and that has allowed them to create the most complete roster in the NFC, and I think arguably the most complete roster in the league. The bills are very, very good top to bottom. The bill's offensive line is not full of dudes. They subsist because their quarterback is able to allow their falls to matter less. But if you look at it top to bottom, position and position. The Eagles are the best built roster in football. And I think it's knights like tonight that really allow that to shine. It's like they can beat you in 10 different ways because they have

a guy that can change the game at 10 different positions. I know. It's, I'm not, and this is not, knocking a hurts here. I'm just saying it's the most quarterback proof roster. It just is. Like, just with that O line, those receivers up there and the defense and keep them in games. It's that O line is, I know Lane Johnson is out. No, my lot of thing is great too. And just the double benefit of him taking him late in the draft was he was an international pathway player. So he didn't count as a roster spot when he first came in.

Stuff like that. That's a bonus. Like, and now they got a bona fide top five left tackle in the league. Like, and it was a project in the late, and day three. Like that's just,

yeah, it's the red paper clip constantly with this team. All right. We are going to take a quick break. And then we're going to get back. you have my attention. Gentlemen, you had my curiosity. Now you have my attention.

All right. I want to start in a kind of a weird place here. We were talking about two teams that we wanted to dig into. And I want to start with the Giants, but framing it this way. They have my attention because they've embraced the Zag. You watch this Giants team and you wonder like, how the hell is this happening? How are they continuing to do this? And they caught some breaks.

late in that game, right? And the ball going through Lamar's hands and those turnovers and being able to kind of cash in on that. That's not always going to happen. But you watch what they do on offense and they're just trying shit that no one else would be willing to try. It kind of brings me back that conversation I was having about the Eagles. And I think that along with the Eagles, the two offenses that I think have gotten the most impressive coaching this season. You can make an argument that it's the Giants and the Falcons. They're not the best offenses in the league.

But what they are getting out of their personnel, they are pushing every, they're pulling everything they can out of the players that they have. And that's how I felt watching the Giants again today. It's like they're moving the ball up and down the field, but they've got like four or five plays a game where it's like, this shouldn't work. This shouldn't even be an idea that you try, but somehow you're trotting it out and you're getting chunk plays out of it. I thought it was so funny.

We both ended up tweeting out the exact same play. It's it. The Giants, that was really funny. I mean, watching Aaron Rogers today, that play made me feel like I was doing ayahuasca. Was watching that play and just seeing it in an NFL game. Just explain it to people and what it was. Yeah, the play we're talking about is the Giants had a 23 personnel, which is, I'm sorry, 32 personnel, which is three running backs and two tight ads. But it was three tailbacks.

It was not a fullback out there. So this is a team that struggles to have receivers. They got Wendell Robinson back, but they, yeah, they're finding out these ways. but they went a full house backfield, ran a front side naked. A naked is usually you fake one way and have the quarterback boot all the way around the other way. I've seen a lot more front side naked is actually this year. So they fake the dive and then the quarterback is booting to the same side he's faking on.

They have a wheel route to Matt, Breda, right? Yes. A wheel route to Brita with Barkley coming into the flat underneath. I'm just a traditional naked concept. Actually, not really with a wheel route. And Daniel Jones hits a whale route to him out of this 32 per, 32 pony personnel, double pony personnel that the Giants got into.

There was another one, the Bellinger TD down in the red zone. They were in 14 personnel with four tight ends and one runnerback in the game. They ran a bootleg in that. And again, just like our conversation about like the bills and putting themselves in good position and using different schematic twists, putting 12 personnel on the field, it is they were forcing the Ravens. The Ravens have struggled with depth this year. There are tons of injuries on defense once again with D.

line and linebacker depth, they are forcing them to say, hey, put those backups on the field. Put as many backups as you have on the field because we're going to get these guys and we have a better play than you have on defense. And it works. That's just, it's knowing your personnel. That is what coaching comes down to, especially in the NFL, is knowing your personnel and putting them in positions and the Giants do it constantly. The one that they hit on the wheel to Breda, they're using Seekwon as a decoy on that play. He's in the flat. They're trying to pull up the defender right there with Seekwan going to the front. flat. They had another one. There was a crosser to Wondell Robinson where they had Sequin

pulling up that flat defender again. They know Sequin Barclay is the most visible, important player on their offense. So they use him to influence the passing game, even though he's a running back. Splash the water. They're just splashing water with him. That's all it is. It's like, all right, we know that your focus is on him. He is the most central running back to an NFL offense that exists right now because they have no other personnel. And they're using him that way. Even the Bellinger touchdown, the way that they're boot, and both of those tight ends are coming back from the right side. And I can't remember who the other one was besides Bellinger because I don't know any of their names. And I apologize about that.

There's four of them. Yes. So the other tight end takes it vertical at the last second and pulls out the defender right there where Beliger can just sit down. It's a beautiful play design. Like, it makes sense. And you watch this happen with all of these tight ends and all of these running backs and no receivers. and it's like, this is wild. It is wild that they get anything out of this skill position group and anything out of this

offensive roster, but they're doing it because they're willing to try things and do weird stuff that no one is willing to try. And the Falcons are the same way. The Falcons won another game today where their quarterback completed 13 passes. All of the different personnel groups that they're using, all of the different ways that they're doing this. I know they got a couple picks today and the turnovers are certainly helpful. but they're moving the ball on a Niners defense, even if they're banged up,

it's still impressive when you consider the skill position talent and the offensive line talent that the Falcons have. Both of these teams are torn down teams. They are bottom three teams in cash spending and the ways that they're building up this roster. These are supposed to be full-scale rebuild jobs where they're the worst teams in the NFL. And both of these teams are competitive week in and week out because of the wonky-ass shit that they're doing because they're willing to try it because why the hell not? Why the hell not?

Like, oh, I, I love the Falcons offense so much. I love that we get to keep talking about it because just there, like you brought up the personnel usage. The Falcons were in 11, 21, 12, 22, and 13. Those are like the big five personnel grouping. So 11's three wides, 21's a fullback, two wides, 12 was two tight ends, two wide, 22, two pullbacks, two tight ends, 13's three tight ends. They ran every single one of those personnel groupings today, 10% are more of their

snaps. So about five or six snaps or more of each. And they do it on every single down. It could be any down that they are in these personnel grubments. Different types. They'll be in 12 with three different types of tight ends rotating out throughout it. And just a couple plays they do out of it. Like today they were in, I think, nothing but shotgun. So they've been doing all this play action stuff out of under center pistol and shotgun. Today, every single play action was out shotgun. They were running spread looks more this week. And I'm, I'm going to to guess they wanted the guys more out on islands. But it's knowing their change-ups has been so cool.

A couple weeks ago when they played the Browns, everybody's getting, every offense is getting highlights against the Browns defense. But this one with the Falcons was really cool, was the center whyback play. And we discussed it. But this was another, that's just knowing the change-ups that your offense is going to have. And the Falcons love running a toss outside zone play. You'll see a lot of Shanahan offenses do it. Arthur Smith runs just a little bit of everything.

So again, they were making it look like this toss outside zone play. And what they did on it was they went 22 personnel, Kyle Pitts in the game. They made it look, though, like a 12 personnel look where Kyle Pitts is a receiver. He's split out in a close split. They make everything look like if you watch a Ravens offense, you watch the four in nary's offense, you watch juice check or Patrick Ricard lead blocking on these toss outside zone plays. They make every pre-snap action look like that. But then they run pinpole the other way with Kyle Pitts blocking down on the

end. They know all their change-ups. And it's just like, I mean, I've watched enough baseball that I can actually talk this language now. They just, they threw a change-up at 94 miles an hour. Like, it's the change-up after they throw 103 at you and also in the change-up. The breaking ball is in the mid-90s. It's like, oh, how do I hit that?

And that's what this team does in the run game. And they get all these explosive plays. They back up running backs in. And these guys are getting explosive plays. They have Caleb McGarry, playing like one of the most improved players in the NFL, like making key blocks. They're pulling with them. This guy looked like he couldn't even start playing the NFL a year or two ago.

Now they're just making him like a weapon. It's really cool what this offense does. They're running like fade RPO's to Drake London. I love this offense so much because of what they, the weekly tweaks that they do and the changeups that they show every week. I don't know if the Giants can sustain this for an entire season. I don't know if they're going to get the sort of breaks that happened again that the Ravens had late in this game. Another Ravens collapse. Are you concerned that this is symptomatic of a broader problem with the Ravens or

It's just shitty luck. Yes. No. It's, I mean, it's a lot of like, what do you, their D.Bs are really frustrating to me.

It's like the, especially with their tackling. Because I think they, I don't know what, they just get tired or whatever. Someone has the best tweet ever because I tweeted about it, of course. And someone replied to me and says,

it's just arms and sass. That's the Ravens DBs like tackling. Just arms and sass. And I love that so much because how many times you see Marcus Peters, barely always half missing a tackle. and then getting up talking. So it's, I'm a little like,

it is annoying. I'll tell you that, especially as someone that's been consistently betting the Ravens. And I think just with this team, I really just think their, their offense runs out of stuff

to throw out teams. Like they have some good plays and they kind of come out of it, it seems like, and they just keep shooting themselves in the foot, whether it be the fourth downs and miss short yard

opportunities against the dolphins, just this game with a botched snaps and other plays. They just seem to keep doing that. It's a team that has faced a lot of injuries. So you have some wonkiness, especially on defense. But yeah, I'm a little worried, but I also think they'll break out of it because you can't just keep having this bad luck like this. That's kind of where I sit with it as well. I mean, it doesn't really feel like this is something they can't be fixed. And we know that records

in close games often comes back. Yep. So it does seem like they've got some bad breaks, but the Giants continue to get good breaks. So congratulations to them. Embrace the zag. They both have and they both have rewarded for it. All right. Next one here. I was going to frame this as the Patriots defense, just because the Patriots defense was ninth in defensive TVA coming into this game. They had a really nice day against the Browns. I assume that's only going to go up. Browns defense's offense has been pretty good this year. I'm doing the Patriots in general because going back and rewatching that game, Bailey Zappy is fun, man.

The Patriots defense plus Bailey Zappy the last couple weeks has been really enjoyable. Oh, Bailey Zapp. I compare Bailey Zappy to Chase Daniel in the pre-draft process. One man after my own heart. And it feels great. It feels great watching him. His college film was so much fun because you knew you're, I shouldn't say you know, but watching him right now.

It's like, okay, he has a ton of arm limitations, but this dude knows what he is and he's smart. And those quarterbacks are so fun. They spread it out at Western Kentucky, this coaching staff brought him with him. And him and what's his name? Jared. Jarrett, Gerith? Yeah, Jarrett Stearns. Caden Stearns is a little brother.

He plays at West, he played at Western Kentucky. He's this little 5-7 receiver. and he caught like 150 balls for him. But Zappi was just, they just put him in a shotgun and he just watched this guy dice up. It was like those old Hawaii offenses with like Timmy Chang running the run and shoot. That's what this looked like. And man, when you watch it today, when he has no pressure on him, just watching him just knife defenses up because he knows where to go with the ball. Like he always is going to have the right answer.

It's just getting him there. And they got, they let him get there. They point, let him, let him shoot. And it's a lot of fun. Bailey, okay, was. was blitzed on 50% of his dropbacks today. On those plays where Bailey Zappy was blitzed in this game, he was 13 of 18 for 225 yards and two touchdowns.

Not bad. Bailey Zappy this week was sixth in EPA per dropback against the blitz. And no one else that was even close to that was blitzed as often. Matt Ryan was blitz on 31% of his snaps. But the other guys that were that high, 4% for Cowan Murray, 9% for Andy Dalton, 7% for Trevor Lawrence. That's a sample size thing. Bailey was maybe the best quarterback in the NFL against the Blitz today.

And he was really good last week when teams brought extra pressure. He knows exactly where he's supposed to throw the ball. He can't throw it more than 35 yards, but he knows exactly where he's supposed to go with the ball. It's remarkable to watch him play because he has decent pocket awareness. The ball placement is good. but every single one of them looks like it was shot out of a t-shirt can and it doesn't really work where it just it goes out and then it just boo just it tails off at the end every single throw but I'm truly enjoying watching him play he plays how Big Ben thought he would play in his late career like

this is what Big Ben's image of himself at his end of his career was playing with his arm like but like he thought he was just going to be a point guard back there Bailey Zappy is actually that point guard like you can't listen because he gets a ball out so quick and they're running like um like he hit a hundred and Henry. couple times, maybe just once. But like he targeted him just on little hot routes. Just like you blitz off the slot, he gets a ball out so quick that before you can recover and have a guy come down, he's, you're getting eight yards, 12 yards on it. It's yeah, he's he's, he's a ton of fun. And he has, and he's throwing up to Parker and Parker's dunking on guys. It's, it's, it's a weirdly

fun offence to watch because their run game's been pretty fun. So now you got this kind of a, this kind of like passing game. That's interesting. When I was going back and rewatching the game, I was assuming that I would go back and rewatch the defense and what they did against the Browns and the fact that they slowed them down. And then I started watching the whole thing. And I'm just laughing while watching Bailey Zach. I'm just cracking up. I was like, this dude played really well today. Like, this is not bullshit.

Like, he actually played really well in this game. But I do want to talk about the Patriots defense because they are a top 10 defense by pretty much every metric. I was worried about the Patriots defense coming into this year. They had no corners. And the fact that Jack Jones. is now playing like this, and Marcus Jones had some nice moments today. I would like to go back and watch it all 22

to see what they were actually doing coverage-wise, but it seemed like they were playing a lot of man. They were really daring the Browns receivers to beat them, and it was not working very well. And then the ways, the physicality, Mari Cooper had four catches on 12 targets in this game. So one-double two, I would assume is what was going on. Yes, it was.

So you watch the run game, the collisions in this game. The ways that they were taking on blocks and pullers, every single guy. Bentley, they had a play where the bronze were in a split back, and they had Bryant coming all the way across the formation as a lead blocker. And the way Bentley took on that block in the hole,

the collision was just insane. And Judon was also taken on Teller coming across from the other way. And I can't remember who ended up making the tackle. Barmore had some really nice moments. Dugger's interception. Dugger blew up Kareem Hunt on a blitz. like absolutely exploded him in the hole. Like the way,

the physicality that they played with on defense today against the Browns team that usually beats the shit out of people was really enjoyable to watch. He, Dugger had another one. The Duggernaut had another one where he blew up. It was like an eight-yard gain. So like it wasn't like, if it could be a highlight, I'm not going to tweet it because then you'll get some like sour Cleveland fan going, it's an eight-yard gain is he blew up a blocker and tackled Kareem Hunt from the side.

And it was like, oh my God. He like, but like, you could tell Hunt was like, what was that? And that was on like a run play. He thought he was about to break it for a long run. But no, this, this is, it could be a multitude of things. This Patriot defense, Belchick always scouts to size. Like he, his linebacks are always thumpers. Yes.

He, his de-line's always big. This is like the fastest this Patriots' defense has felt in a while. Like, I don't know. They feel like they have a little more speed to them. And I don't know. I want to really study it and see maybe why. But even up front, they're never going to go for bendy guys. Like, that's just not it.

But these guys have a lot more rather than just with pocket pushing when they do get these edginess, they're able to burst to the quarterback. Like, I don't know. The linebackers have a little bit more movement to them. The DBs always been kind of like the samey. But I don't know. This team feels fast. And maybe it was just because they're going against this Brown team. They had kind of them on their toes or on their heels.

But I don't know. Every week I've watched this defense, kind of just seen the same thing. they're really playing really, really fast. And Dugger's kind of the epitome of that. Because he is that General Swiss Army knife that Belichick loves. He always loves having one of these in his DB room. But this guy is like a monster. He's 225 runs a 4-4 and just wipes out tight ends.

One of the best athletes to come into the draft in like the last 10 years. If you look at like his testing numbers and how big he is. And now they, and now they've, I mean, he's playing so smart and they unlock. He is the tight end eraser. Like that, Ninjoku had a great catch on him up the sideline. But that's why when they do that one double stuff, if you have a good tight end, they could just put 23 on him, Dugger, and he'll wipe him out for the entire game. Like he is. And then like you said, he'll blitz, he'll blow up run plays.

He's playing really good. Dietrich Weiss is playing well. Like week one against the dolphins, he had a good game. And like he's kind of just, you know, this last game. I mean, he's kind of just doing some stuff. Like it's a good, really fun defense. They play physical and they have some, they have some dudes. And another shout to one of their DBs is Brendan Scholar, this rookie special teamer.

that is going to be with the Patriots for the next 12 years, like him and Slater are just like knocking dudes out on punt. And it's awesome. He got the, he recovered the fumble and he tried to give it to Belichick, like a cat with a dead bird. But he was like, hey,

look what I got for you? And Belchick's like, what are you doing? Like, what are you doing? Yeah. Another little highlight for the Patriots today. But it is a fun team.

It's a lot more fun than I thought even a couple of weeks ago. Some of DeKalder's best physical comparisons. If you look at it from the draft. Yeah. Number one is Trello, Ben's first run pick. Number two is Eric. Barry top five pick.

Durwin James is also in there, top first round pick. I mean, that's the type of athlete that he is. His interception today, he's playing super low and it's play action. And he gets all the way back under in Joku to make the play. It's just a really, really impressive combination of awareness, physical skills, everything. He's playing really well. He's, I mean, we talked about him coming into the season. He was one of your breakout players for this year.

And he is currently breaking out for a defense that's playing much better. better than I expected them to based on their personnel corner. And Jonathan Jones didn't even play today. And they still were able to do this on the back end. So every single time I want to throw dirt on Bill Belichick, he has a two-game run where he's pulling out defensive game plans like this and just erasing teams. I guarantee you that we'll look at people look back out of five weeks and I'll be like, what was the Lions and the Browns, right?

Like it was Jared Goff and Jury 50 percent. These have been top 10, top five offenses by efficiency before they ran into the Patriots and these very hyper-specific game plans. That's what this team can do. They can look at what you do and be like, okay, like we're just going to run one double in Amari Cooper at the entire game, which look at the other Browns receiving options. Doesn't that make sense? It's like we are not going to let number two catch the ball if you're going to throw it all.

We're going to play our fronts such that you're going to have a hard time running the ball against us, and then we're going to double your best receiver every single play and see if you can beat us that way. And the answer was they couldn't do it. Right. And it's, and it's not only, like I say, they feel like they have more speed, but it's, it's, you can have as much speed as you want. If they're not communicating well, they don't know what they're seeing, then they look like crap. There's so many good units over the years or talented units that don't play fast and they're running into each other, all this. And you watch this defense communicate. There's, there's snaps where they're running like a robber down, normal man, but with a robber coming down. And the Browns are running a typical high, low concept. You have an under route, five yards and in and a bender behind it. And the low safety, the robber safety is the one that comes down on the under route. He took away the high route and then the low route because he understood that the middle defender, the slot defender had the outside leverage. Just like he understood the leverage points.

And he goes, oh, this is a concept of Brown's run a ton. Okay. He recognized that. That comes to the coaching again, but also just players playing fast. You see the linebackers. The Browns love to when they go into heavy personnel or they use a back and a tight end protection. When they release it, they love to cross them. that's a thing that some teams will do.

Some teams will just wide them out. You run both outs. They'll have guys sit. They like to cross them to force communication errors. Watch the Patriots defense. If anyone watches this replay of this game, watch their intermediate defenders communicate those passoffs. It's so cool. They're you, you, you.

It's like watching a good two, three zone in basketball. And they're just passing this stuff off. It's really cool. It's a really fun, fun defense to watch that. Even a couple weeks ago, I was optimistic about it, but not, I didn't think. I mean, they're like, don't. accommodating right now. And it's cool. And then you got Bailey Zapi. And we'll see what happens. I mean, Mack Jones can do a lot of the same things that Bailey Zapi can do. I mean, their offensive line is good.

Interesting kind of situation at right tackle today where Marcus Cannon came in for a little bit, something to monitor. But I mean, they have a decent amount of players up there. And if their quarterback, I can be solid and they can play defense like this, they're going to be in a lot of games. All right. Last one here. The New York Jets, you have my attention. Goodness gracious. that came in and kind of dismantled the Packers' offense. The Packers' offense was barely functional for good chunks of this game. Aaron Rogers had to make a couple hero throws, including that one-up, the left sideline to Alan Lazard.

Other than that, they could get nothing going consistently on that side of the ball today. And then the Jets run game in the second half doing just enough interesting stuff to put that thing away. And that combination of that defense playing like that with the way, that they can run the ball and the talent that they have and the creativity in that area of their offense, I mean, they can give a lot of teams some problems that they're going to play like this. Well, it was funny. They, at first, the jets were bringing some pressures and like they brought a couple of blitzes. And then they realized, oh, we don't have to.

We don't have to do that. We don't have to do this at all. I mean, they ran a ton of games. Oh, my God. It was just picks and twists and just every combination. And when you have a dude like Quinn and Williams, dominoing guy. and knocking offensive alignment into each other, opens up a lot for other teammates.

But then you got Carl Lawson, who's been playing extremely well coming back from injury. At linebacker, Quincy Williams, who was off-dove. The linebackers were super impressive today. Like, their identification of stuff, the game planning they did during this game, I don't know if, like, Mike was in some meetings. Like, I, I'm truly wondering, like,

what the preparation was because they snuffed out shit immediately. for four quarters on the second level of their defense. It was really impressive. This Packers offense is living side to side to side. We'll get to him in the sec. But they're very side to side to side side to side side to side. This is where team speed comes into effect. And that's the thing is, again, you have as much team speed as you want. If they don't know where they're pointing and shooting, it doesn't matter. And that's the thing is you'll see a flat route that a bad defense. That would be an 18 yard gain, 12 yard gain, going for a TFL, going for zero gain, because they're running out and understanding where they're about to get attacked and

understanding what the Packers were trying to do. It was awesome. And then on top of it, they have a sneak peek to my 30s awards. That's what I'm calling it, the 30s with the D30s awards that's coming out this week for the first third. My defensive rookie of the year, Soss Gardner, is a star. There's no questions about it. If you had any, like, hesitancy about this guy, he's incredible. Not just his fluidness and how tall and long he is, his awareness is so good.

good. We talked about him a few weeks ago, but he is just a complete player already so early in his career. So now they have these guys playing fast at every level. And by the end of the game, True Media said they only blitzed four times, which I thought was pretty crazy because at first they were blitzing, those must all came in the first quarter because by the end of the game, they weren't. And it's because they have these dudes winning up front. And they're just over and over and over. They just keep coming at you. Last three weeks, they're blitzing 9% of the time. And they're sixth in the NFL and pressure rate over the last three weeks. That's what they're doing with that front four.

And what they were doing today, and the Packers just had no answer, they were running a little overload front with three guys on one side. So they'd head up over the center and then head up over the guard over the tackle. Linebacker walked down over the other guard and then an end lined up a little bit wider. So kind of like a 5-0 look and they were consistently dropping the linebacker out of there. But they were running games with the three-man side that the Packers just had absolutely no shot of picking up. And the amount of heat coming at you in those games with the way that Quinn

Williams is playing right now, that's why it's a problem. And when you combine that with the way they're playing on the back end, they play more man than teams from this tree theoretically would. Like if you're thinking about the Niners, the Browns, like the coaches from this general family, the Jets are willing to play man coverage on like 50% of their third down snaps. And that's partially because of what sauce can give them. And the other guy sauce.

The other guy who's I've been unbelievably impressed by this year is DJ Reed. DJ Reed is playing excellent football. And now when you think about everything they spent

coming into this off season, draft picks, free agent capital, how they've built up these individual units when you talk about the defensive line, how they rework

the entire secondary over the first couple weeks. I was like, when is this going to come together? Like when are we going to see this. And over the last couple weeks, you are starting to see it come together. Like, this is the vision. This is the plan. This is what they were supposed to be on defense after they built it over the last couple of years. And Robert Sala came in as the head coach of

this team. This is what the final product is supposed to look like. And that would be the most encouraging part to me as a Jets fan. We're like, all right, that was the plan. This is the execution. And this looks beautiful in practice. It's fun. They're, they, they do have, I mean, you can see the real roots all the way to that Legion of Boom defenses in Seattle as far as up front in all those games. And the overload front's one of them because they all pin their ears back. The other ones that do this is a 49ers defense. Everyone has their ears pins back and they just go. And for a quarterback that's trying to find who his number one option is in the past game and Aaron Rogers is now he has to hunt a little bit in the pocket.

When you're creating all these games and the quarterback is not bailing out outside, like Josh Allen or Mahomes, that's suicide to do that, to let them get to the outside, you know, break contain outside. Rogers isn't really doing that right now. He's like choosing just not to. And so he's trying to operate from the pocket. But when you create all this, what I call edginess in the pocket with all these games, someone is winning at different points. So it's not like I go, okay, well, my right guard keeps getting beat. So I know just the bail left.

Well, well, my right guards get picked off there. But my left guard is too. So should I bail out? Oh, shoot. Carl Lawson just won on the. outside. Okay, now I, okay, I'm going to move a little bit to the left. Oh, shoot, here comes Quinn and Williams looping all the way around into a fool's goal part of the pocket. And that's what this defense is doing. And so that's how you create pressure without blitzing. And, and even

pressures that don't even get home, you're just creating almost like a QB hit because you're just making him move off the launch point. Any time the quarterback gets moved off the launch point, it just, the success rate drops down. That's why I want to bring up the play. Like that's what's happening. You're affecting every single play when you're playing like this up. That's why we're freaking out about Mahomes and Allen because that stuff doesn't like really apply to them. But like right now it's applying to Rogers and the Jets, if you're playing a quarterback and they can do that to Rogers, there's a lot of other quarterbacks they can do this too. And it's really, really cool to watch it in action because it's just some good players

playing really, really fast and really aggressive. DJ Reid's a great example too. Their DBs are all willing tacklers. Sauce is a. Soss knocked out Teddy Bridgewater last week. He is a willing an able tackler. So this whole defense. This is what I thought they'd play like. This is what they were supposed to play like. When Sala came over and he has this aura about him and it's all of this culture stuff and we're going to play this way and you watch how the Niners.

Aggression. Yes. And when you watched the Niners play over the last couple of years before and he was the defense coordinator there was like, this is what I wanted. The way they're playing now is what I thought they might play like when it all came together. And that's why I just was like, what is happening? Even over the first couple games this year, they were the worst team.

defense in the league. And now, I mean, a couple guys banged up, but still not playing the way you would think. And then now what they've been like over the last few weeks, like, this is what I expected. Then the Packers have their problems on offense. But I think what you said about the corners being willing tacklers, it's exactly what I'm getting at, is that there is a mindset, one to 11 that they are playing with right now. And even the guys are rotating in on the defensive line. Like Vinic Curry just got called up this week. He had a TFL on a miscommunication.

But still, a lot of guys are getting into this. Shelton Rankin's made a bunch of plays today. And I think that is what's worth pointing out is that it's an entire unit playing this way. And when you think about teams like the Niners or think about teams like the Cowboys, the really good defenses in the NFL, that's what it feels like. And now the Jets are starting to feel like they're on their way to being one of those groups because they have the pieces now because of how much they've spent to get here and how many resources they've had to unleash. but now they have the mindset all the way across that unit. That's what's impressive. And then you combine that with the shit they're doing in the run game is unbelievably cool.

Like that huge Breece Hall run where he's running, I don't even know how to describe it. It's like a fake reverse that he pulls back. It's like a trap play. Like that was one of the coolest plays at the week. Yes. He went rogue on it. So it was awesome. But that's because he's freaking awesome.

Breece Hall is really good. Michael Carter's really good too. Yeah, no, that was awesome. It was at first, because it was how they pulled everyone. I thought it was like an undercentered GT counter. I was like, oh, that's cool. And then I saw Garrett Wilson running a reverse. It's like, huh, you don't run GT counter with a fake reverse action.

That's not something you tie together. Then I realized it was just Brice Hall being a baller and realizing that, oh, shoot, I can't get back here because the defensive line is so far upfield. Yeah, he just took it and went for it. But that's not to take away from the other runs that they do. I mean, they are a good, efficient run game. They do a little bit of everything. and Little Thor, Mike, before it gets into his bag, as soon as they get inside the 30-yard line,

he'll call everything. The barriers touched out with the score today. I mean, it's all on the table. That area is where they'll just start to unleash that stuff in the high red zone, like just outside fringe red zone plays. They love those, and they've got 20 different things that they can go to. So the New York Jets, you have my attention. All right, we're going to take one more quick break here,

and then we're going to talk about the team that the Jets beat up today. I'm not mad. I'm just disappointed. I want to start with the Packers here, but I want to take this a little bit wider than that. The supposedly elite teams in the NFC, I'm not mad. I'm just disappointed.

So coming into today, outside of the Eagles, the three teams that had the best odds to win the NFC, were the Bucks, the Packers, and the 49ers. All three of those teams lost today, and all three of those teams are three and three. are there any good teams in the NFC outside of the Eagles right now? No. I mean, keep a couple bucks shares, stocks, but really it feels every week it goes by and I'm yelling at this offense.

I can just keep yelling to clouds and say, they'll get healthier. And they just keep putting up performances like they did today. I don't know. I think the Eagles are the class of their own easily right now in the NFC. the Vikings are four and one, but the Vikings offense didn't play great today against the Dolphins defense that didn't have any of their defensive backs. Like Skyler Thompson was playing for Chuck in this game, that he got hurt, that Teddy Bridgewater came back in. It's not like they ran away with that game. I know the Giants are four and one.

God bless them, but I'm not sure what the long term outlook is on something like this. So I don't know. I just don't know what you can count on with that second tier. And five and one, excuse me. The Giants are five and one. I'm sorry. Thank you, Bellar.

I'm even disrespecting the Giants here as I've tried out their record. But I'm watching the Packers in this game, that is the team of Bucks Packers and Niners, I think I'm most concerned about right now. Because the Bucks, I don't know. That's a good question. Are you more concerned about the Bucks of the Packers right now? Packers. Yes, more concerned about the Packers. The Bucks offense is they got to figure out what their chemistry or they're kind of

Not chemistry, but their, yeah, I guess their chemistry is on offense. And not in the sense of, like, the players coming together and, like, having a kumbaya, but more in the sense of, like, how they're splitting their runs and passes because I'll just drop this stat real quick. Well, the fact that the, the Bucks got a Tom Brady QB sneak stopped today is like, this shows you what type of day that they had. And by the way, the Patriots defense stopped Jacoby Brissette on a fourth and one QB sneak. We had, like, the two most automatic, those two Josh Allen and Jalen, Jailen Hertz. Those are like the automatic QB sneak guys.

Two of them got stopped today, which is weird. But they had 21 rushes on first and second down today. The Bucks did. Only five went for five or more yards. They had eight total successful runs on those 21. Five of those came in the first quarter. So that means they only had three for the rest of the game that were considered successful. And yet they ran the ball over and over and over.

And it just, what's the strength of this Bucks team is, Tom, Brady sitting back there and knifing it up to Godwin, a couple deep balls of heavens. Like that's kind of where this offense lives in. And it just always just feels like that it's not like that. They just don't have a lot of like sustainability, it seems like. And they just keep getting these tight games where they can't blow any, any doors open. If you want to be a truly great team, we want to see those kind of impress the voters. You know, they used to say with the AP top 10.

And press the BCS voters. You know, impress those guys. Like that's what I want to see a little with the Bucks team. and then they just keep having performances like this. Yes, the Steelers got a little lucky on their offense, went four for four on third and 11 plus in the second half. The league average is 15% on third and 11 plus and they went four for four in the second half.

That's not going to always happen against you. But really my buck's concerns is with their offense. And I do have faith that they'll figure it out. But it's like another week just passes by where they have another performance where they're stubbing their toe. There are two things I'm worried about with the bucks. One is the interior of the offensive line, right? Like the group we knew that wasn't going to get healthier.

You know, the tackles were going to come back. Yep. Donald Smith was going to come back eventually. Judges out for the year. That was never going to get better. And that was a problem again today. I mean, what Cam Hayward did to Luccaddecki on some of those plays is horrifying. And their inability to run the ball.

They're dead last in EPA per rush. And they are dead set on running the ball on early downs, even though they're the worst rushing offense in the league. And even on some third downs today. That third and one that got blown up, what happened to Kate out on that play is just the way their tight ends have blocked even hasn't been very good. They are not a good team that can just line up and run the ball against you. And that's what they've been over the last couple years. I understand that you don't want 45-year-old Tom Brady throwing the ball 60 times a game for multiple different reasons.

But what they're doing on early downs running the ball and their inability to run the ball is holding them back. The Packers side of this, what happened to their offensive? line today, even if you're worried about their receiving talent. And that's another reason that I'm a little bit bullish on the bucks eventually figuring this out is that the guys catching the ball are good enough where they'll get there. Godwin looks amazing again. Yeah, they have those guys. The Packers don't have that sort of past catching talent.

We knew that coming in. But I still thought the line would be fine. Like I thought, all right, they'll figure it out up front. Their line has been so good over the last couple of years. Even with Bakhtiari out, they figured it out. they will get a solution there. You watch the way they played today. I just can't believe that's their best five at the spots they're currently lined up in.

Because you watch what's happening at right guard with Royce Newman and he got subbed out a little bit today. I can't remember who else played. But their right guard situation has been a problem. And then Jenkins is playing right tackle and he's not playing that well at right tackle. So isn't there a world where you take your all pro guard? and put him back at guard to make that position stronger and see what Nyman can give you at right tackle. It just feels like there is a better five group of offensive linemen for the Green Bay Packers than the one that they're using right now. I can understand not wanting to put Nyman there if you don't feel like he's comfortable on the right side.

But it does still feel like this is not the best solution for it. It feels like kind of a way to have a left tackle only backup. Like, and he is, and he's a good player. Like, I mean, he's a legit starter at tackle. Like, I know he's only played left side, but I mean, I get exactly what you mean, because how that performance was today, like, Rogers isn't really pulling the trigger as quick as he has at the pass. And I get it. He's not playing well. That's also part of this.

The performative deep balls, like he, you can almost put a, you could, it should be the safest bet. Like, after the other team has a long drive for like 10 plays or more or 60 yards or more, like you can put either one. that first throw from Aaron Rogers is going to be a bomb. It's like automatic. It's, he did it again today. And it's so much as side to side.

So like the, the Bucks offense, because it's a very old school type of offense. It's Ariens. So it's at you runs and vertical passing. So they do some, they do some screens and stuff, but there's not a lot of side to side

quick hitting passing game. There's not a quick game because they say we under attack underneath with short yards, you know, or running the ball or throwing quick little screens on the outside. That's how we get you underneath and that we attack you vertically. The Packers' offense is all horizontal. It's running the ball or throwing short. There's nothing to make you stretch vertically. Yes, they have vertical elements on their passing concepts, but how many times you seem completed? Like, yes, there's a beautiful, I mean, 1% ball, you know, to Lazard on the left

sideline, but there's not a ton in the touchdown, I guess, later. But there's not a ton of that in the kind of scheme of the offense by design and by choice with Rogers. And Rogers also had quotes today after the play after the game saying that they made simple mistakes on complex offense. And he's saying that there were too complex. We have too much motions and shifts going on right now. Which if you rewatch this game, it's like, why are your mistakes but aren't coming with motions and shifts?

Like there's not like there. You guys are just getting in it empty sometimes and you're not getting rid of the ball. I'm getting kind of worried about the dynamics going on over there. Like he looks like late. McCarthy, I'm kind of checked out. That's exactly what I said to some. Rogers right now. And that is, that's a concern.

He's not pushing the ball. He's, he's just like, I'm good. I'm not trying that throw. I don't trust insert receiver name here. Like he had, I mean, it's just, they had nine snaps of empty day. What motions and complex? You know, why is that complex? You've done that your whole life being an empty.

They did have six drops, which doesn't help. I was actually going to write about this week was I love their shotgun run game because they were the only team that is majority shotgun runs that doesn't have a running quarterback. Like they've made a living in this shotgun jet sweep run game world and it works for them, but then they don't do anything off of it. And it's weird. I mean, it's all these flats and checks and bubbles and RPO's, but it's the package play RPO's that Rogers lived in with McCarthy.

And now he's like, we saw this too at LaFleur, but it was the threes and layups. It's a layup only offense. And I think that's the best way to look at right now. It's really frustrating to watch. Niners, I think my biggest concern with them is, I mean, obviously the quarterback is going to do some wild stuff every single week. You're just going to have to live with that.

But the injuries are the biggest thing, right? Yeah. They come into this game, no Jimmy Ward, no Trent Williams, no Eric Armstead, no Nick Bosa. And then Chavarious Ward gets hurt in this game. When she gets dinged up in this game, you'd have to hope that when they get healthy, we can see the best version of them that they're going to be relevant in the NFC picture. but I don't know when they're going to get healthy or if that's going to happen. So that's been a consistent concern for them and it continues to be. The other two teams that mean worth mentioning, I do think the Cowboys with Dak and the way that

they play defense, they're going to be an annoyance in the NFC. And I think that if we have consternation about these teams that we think are at the top, I think the Cowboys are as good or better than any of these three teams right now. I feel better about the Cowboys right now. If DAC plays how we know DAC can play, then these three teams I would just talk about. I really do. The Vikings, I'm still not sure. The Vikings, like, their inconsistency on offense still really concerns me.

So we'll see what happens with Minnesota. But I do think I feel better about Dallas than maybe any of these three teams right now, which is not. And the Niners mostly because of injury. And that's just not something I thought I was going to say. No, I know. And that's I said about the Vikings. I said, the good news is they keep winning and they haven't had a complete game yet. the bad news is they haven't had a complete game yet.

It just keeps working out for them. So it might get ugly if they don't fix some things. Yeah, I like what the Vikings do. Their record doesn't indicate how they're truly playing, but, you know, they keep winning. And I do like some of the things they do. I have no idea what to make of their defense. Every series. One series, they look brilliant.

I'm like, oh, my God. And one series, I'm like, you guys can't guard anybody. And there's nobody within 10 yards of the receiver. So I have no idea what to make for them. But I love that you brought up the Cowboys, too, because it's, weird how okay I feel about them like at this point I anticipate being here I really didn't me either me either and I'm not ever going to mention the Rams they're not even like there yeah the Ramsers is not good that like that's we don't have to talk about the Rams in this

conversation the Rams are not a good team and it makes sense when you think about how devastated their offensive line is and all the issues that they're dealing with there and the fact that they have no juice at the receiving positions like okay like the Rams just aren't very good right now and that's fine. We don't have to talk about them in the same class as the rest of these teams. All right. We're going to talk about a couple guys that we noticed today and then we're going to get out of here. All right.

I want to talk about Jamar Chase just very quickly. We're going to talk about this game on the Monday Hangover tomorrow. We're talking about Bengals and Saints, but this is a reminder that Jamar Chase can just do this every once in a while. It just says like, this is always going to come, right? Like he was going to be able to have one of these games, this offense was struggling a little bit, but there were always going to be, there's always this possibility that he was just going to explode in one of these games and have two mind-boggling plays. And that's what happened today, where he just turns a play into a touchdown. And just one of those guys that, oh, yeah,

like he's really, really talented and eventually they're going to figure some aspects of this out. No one hates playing Jamar Chase more than Tyron Matthew. Like he got, he refuses to try to tackle him even. He's just like, ah, I missed, sorry. And then there goes Chase going up. That's why not in Kansas City anymore. But it, I mean, they have been force feeding him targets, which I always approve of to a talented player like that. He was due to pop. And it's one of those where he literally popped where he gets the ball and it's, he's gone.

He just bounces off guys and he's gone. Actually, the Bengals had some tweaks today. I'm actually very interested to watch this game against the Saints for the Bengals offense in general because they're peppering underneath routes. Like, Burrow completed so many balls between the hasions and numbers. Remember we were saying, middle high lobes. I'm curious if they leaned into that today, saw some RPO's from this offense.

So I'm glad that Jamar Chase was able to get a couple of these that wasn't the usual go ball flare last year where he was just dunking on guys or contorting his body. It was more on the flow of the offense. And like you said, it's cool to see a talented player pop off again because it's like, oh yeah. Oh, yeah. You can throw one guy way off of you and then burst past everybody else. And it's like, don't you have the angle? Oh, there goes the angle. And then there goes Jamar Chase for a touchdown.

But yeah, we see you, Jamar Chase. We will dig into that game tomorrow on the hangover. Before we get out of here, though, we're going to talk about just what it was like to watch Allen and Mahomes today. Because I tweeted this out in the second half and the idea that we could get another decade of this. You know, Mahomes is 27. Allen's 26. And we're in this world now where Rogers is on the way out.

potentially Brady's on the way out. Breeze is retired. Peyton Manning is gone. And there was always this question about what the next group of quarterbacks was going to look like. And Lamar, obviously, has been great and won an MVP. Patrick Mahomes won an MVP his first season as a starter. And there is this group of guys, but watching Allen and Mahomes and what this rivalry can potentially be for the next eight to ten years. These guys are under contract from now until whenever. And the best thing about Colts Patriots is that it was always a little bit different. There were always different characters that were kind of rising and falling. And there were different versions of these teams.

And that's kind of what it feels like now. Like now Von Miller is a part of this. And now you have these kind of young players on the chiefs defense and what that's going to look like. And just this storyline of the bills eventually needing to beat the chiefs to get there. And that feeling of this big brother that's had your number and what it means to finally knock them off and get all the way to the top. Who knows if it's going to happen? Like they were so close last year. and being in that building and what it must have felt like to have that 13 seconds go by

and know you were so close and know that you could be the best team in the league and you didn't win a Super Bowl. Right now, the Chiefs are number one in offensive and defensive DVOA. The bills are number one in offensive and defensive DVOA. Like they're back. They are as good as they were last year. This is as good of a chance. And now they go in, they beat Kansas City in Arrowhead in the regular season.

They beat them in the regular season before. now what's going to happen when we get to the playoffs and when these teams probably meet again. And the fact that that storyline and that rivalry and this pairing of quarterbacks, we get to watch this for the next eight to 10 years and these guys playing like this, this is what makes football fun. This is what makes watching the NFL compelling. You can do this forever and you still get to watch these two play against each other and feel the way that it felt today. That never gets old.

And I cannot wait to see what chapter 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 look like between these two guys. Because I do think right now they are on a level that's all they're on. You'll always buy tickets to see Godzilla versus King Kong. Like that's like it's that's what it is. You'll always buy tickets to watch them. And I love the point because those two are just, they're so exceptional. For the 40th time this pod, for 40th time you'll hear me say it every day. it's so awesome to watch these guys break rules,

but also do all the normal stuff exceptionally well. It's not like they're always ad-living. You're just like, oh, well, that won't sustain. No, they can do sustainable stuff and the stuff that, like, shouldn't be sustainable. But I love the point you brought about the rotating cast of characters. That's what makes two teams that are good for a while or have these main featured acts for a while. It's cool to look back and go, oh, that was that game. Yeah.

Oh, that was when Belichick went for it on fourth down. Like you remember these times, like you remember these little plays. Oh, that's when they changed the illegal contact rules because the Patriots kicked their ass. You know, in the AFC championship game. You remember these just these random games and they gives you, oh, yeah. Oh, he was on their team. Brian Cox played for him.

Like you, you remember these random players that they played on these teams. Oh, that was when Bob Sanders was speaking. It's the story of the sport. Yeah. And those rivalries tell the story of the sport. And that's where we are right now is that I think that these teams and these quarterbacks playing against each other

is going to potentially tell the story of the sport for the next 10 or so years. That's awesome. And knowing that you're watching that in real time is incredibly exciting. And that's what it felt like to watch that game today. And I can't wait to see the next time these two teams play against each other.

We're the winners. That's exactly right. We certainly are the winners. And I cannot wait to talk to you guys again very soon. We'll be back tomorrow with the Monday. Hangover, me and Mike Sando doing the hangover this week. So please come back and check us out. We're doing it a little bit later. I think it's a 530 Eastern, right, Beller? 530 Eastern tomorrow.

We have the Monday hangover. So please come back and check that out. Really much, very much looking forward to that. In the meantime, please subscribe to our YouTube channel. You can click on that in the audio version of the podcast below. Or if you're watching right now, you can just subscribe to the channel. Please subscribe to The Athletic. Theathletic.com. slash football show. And also, please subscribe to the podcast and leave us a rating or review if you have not. So really appreciate you guys listening. We'll be back tomorrow with Sandow.

Until then, talk to you guys soon. This was the athletic football show.