The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - NFL Wild Card Saturday Recap: Bengals & Bills advance & what's next for the Raiders & Patriots

Episode Date: January 16, 2022

Joe Burrow snaps the 31-year playoff drought in Cincinnati, Josh Allen leads the Bills to one of the most-impressive offensive performances in NFL history, and those are just a few of the talking points coming out of the NFL's Wild Card Saturday. Robert Mays and Nate Tice react to the action & what the wins mean in Buffalo and Cincinnati, where the Patriots and Raiders go from here with Derek Carr, Mac Jones expectations and more. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays and joining me tonight. For real. It's my good friend, Nate Tice. Nate, how you doing, buddy? Again, it's good that the new Matrix movie is out because I'm jacked in. Ethernet cord is hooked up.

I have a feeling a deja vu happening right now, you know, just a little bit. I'm glad everyone can see me a little clearer. I had to sacrifice camera quality for the live audience. We'll take it. We'll take it. I can hear it works. You don't sound like a robot, so this is amazing. All right.

Where did it dig into both games that happened today? And obviously, we're going to start with an absolutely ridiculous performance from the Buffalo Bills against the Patriots tonight. I mean, not even an exaggeration. One of the greatest offensive performances in NFL history. Aaron Schatz tweeted right before we started recording, according to Football O'OA, this is the second best DVOA game by an offense since 1983. And it felt like it, right? It felt like they could do whatever they wanted against one of the best defenses in football. And this version of Josh Allen is one of the scariest players, one of the three, four scariest

players in the entire league full stop. It's how do you defend this if they're going to like, I mean, the other staff football perspective had was that they're the first team to have no kicks and punts, no turnovers, no failed fourth down attempts for an entire game as well. It's just, it's no matter which way you shake it, this is. one of the most incredible performances ever. And when you're watching a quarterback like Josh Allen, who we already know his athletic talents and how big he is, I call him the ostrich, because it looks like he's running like

an ostrich when he's out in open space. But then also he could just operate from the pocket now, just calmly dicing up like one of the best defenses in the league. And on top of that, create plays out of structure. It's just how do you stop it? Like when he's on, we are wondering if the week 16 performance if he could repeat it. Well, he repeated it and exceeded it in all different types of ways. That's what's just so much fun.

Well, it was the blend, right? It was the exact type of blend that we wanted to see from that week 16 game, where you have these moments where he's creating out of structure, but he's also making you pay underneath. He's being patient. I mean, there were so many different examples on those first couple drives. A couple stats here before we dig into the specifics. Okay.

Josh Allen finishes 21 of 25 for 307 yards and five touchdowns. He also ran for 65 yards. The highest completion percentage over over expectation in any playoff game of the past five years. Okay. What you saw was it was more impressive than it might have even seen at first glance. I was trying to explain this game to my fiancee when she was working the whole time. She was not watching it. I was like, yeah, it was an absolute ass king.

And she's, oh, so was it kind of boring? And I was like, no. It was not boring at all. It was, you look at his numbers. It was one of the most impressive quarterback games I've literally ever seen, not because of just the final numbers and the final stats, but how they were happening. I mean, he's just delivering missile shots to every area of the field while being so dangerous. as a scrambler and a runner. You know, in that first drive,

the Patriots, I think, brings some sort of pressure where they overload the left side, gives him a chance to get out the door back to his left. He runs for 26 yards. And then later on that drive, they run a QB power play for him

in the red zone on 3rd and 3. At another point in the game, they ran a QB draw for him on 3rd and 4. This version of him, with this sort of standing within their offense, is as valuable as you can be as an NFL player, the guy we saw tonight.

You'd hear the stories about Archie Manning, like against Alabama in 1969. He threw for like 450, ran for 70, and he's running around. It's like you'd hear, but like it's, that was in college in 1969. And then you're watching Josh Allen kind of do that in 2022 against a Bill Belichick defense. Like it, they talk about always here with quarterback second run. They change the math. And that's defensive quarter. partners hate it. They change the math. And you see it in the run game. But also like the math that

changes is like, I've had enough time to prep for this if you guys can't tell with me sitting away from my ear and I can work. But changing the math and covering guys man to man. Like when you're covering someone man to man, you kind of know one Mississippi, two Mississippi, three Mississippi. Okay. All right, I can kind of let up or I can kind of lean. He's not going to throw an overthrow from the opposite hash all the way over my head. That's changing the math too. That's what Josh Allen does. He just the calculations in every single way. Every degree. agree he could I mean the I mean the manual Sanders touchdown is just like is that your favorite throw if you had to kind of rank in the throws is that your favorite throw because that that actually in the glance RPO was pretty badass too because he put that like and that was a great catch by uh Davis but I think I think the aminos and you see those glances coming from right to left too it was interesting to see it kind of flipped around it was like the mirror that play what it normally looks like I know yeah right actually that's a good point yeah the the manno Sanders one though because that's like a total like F you to corner play because it's just like he's the corner is just like going with them and

just like, wait, I have to keep guarding him. And like, you can see him trying to pick up speed. Who's first and 20? First and 20. I know. It just sails it over his head. I mean, it's just all the ones that he does. That's in structure and then all the ones out of structure.

And they run play action concepts. The linebackers have to drop so deep. And then it's like, oh, I can check it down or I could scramble for 10 yards and like make guys like break their ankles. Like, he's incredible. It's insane what this guy could do. He can attack you in so many different ways and attack the entire field, 70 yards deep. And, you know, 53 and a third, I think it is wide.

Like, he can just do it on every play. I think another really good example of that is the one that he hit to Gabe Davis coming back across, right? So Davis is alone on the left side. It's a three by one set. He's alone on the left side is the X. And they're in cover three. And so the backside corner in that is locked on him in man coverage. And Alan in on that play has to drift a little bit in the pocket to his left, gets his eyes back going to the right.

and without even, with barely resetting, just launches a 30-yard missile on target to Davis coming back across to that side and just makes it look easy. Like the weather's 70 degrees too. I know. And the fact that he did this and had this sort of game when it was zero degrees outside, outside is absolutely ridiculous. So I want to talk about this just through the lens of what it says about the bill's ceiling

because this is what this game felt like to me. It felt like the best version of the bill's offense. We can get into what that entails here in a second, but it felt like the best version of the bill's offense. And this ceiling for them always felt possible. They were so inconsistent this year. So inconsistent, right? At a certain point, late in the year,

Aaron Schott said they were the most inconsistent team by DVOA and NFL history. They eventually got out of that. They climbed out of the basement. But they were still a very inconsistent team. What this game felt like was their 2020 offense, maybe even a little bit dialed up for certain reasons mixed with their 20-21 defense. And if they could ever find that formula, they would be absolutely terrifying. And that's kind of what this feels like.

Who knows if that inconsistency takes hold again when they have to go bring the chiefs next week. But if this version of the bills is the one we see throughout the playoffs, they're the best team in the league. Yeah. I mean, the defense, it's kind of like the Cowboys a little bit where the defense was a story a little bit for the bills and the first half of the year. And it was, I mean, but that was scary. It was the defense was actually dominant. Like truly against all the bad teams they played. That was a big thing too. It was like, oh, they played a soft schedule, yada, yada, yada. As it often is with defense early in the air. Right. Exactly. And but the offense, though, like, ever since really the Bucks game,

I, I always come back to that Bucks game. And that was like, it just seemed in the second half, they figured out kind of a different way to attack defenses, whether the RPO is actually just making sure, hey, we hand it off every time now as opposed to like making them shorter passes. Even that glance RPO for the touchdown, that kind of speaks to what they're getting to. Things are more down the field. The play action stuff using the full back now. It's like, it's like they forced themselves. It wasn't always pretty, but they found a formula that works.

And this is like the feather in the cap of really since December. Like since the start of December, this Bill's offense has taken a whole new life. And it's like, this is what we weren't expected a defense maybe to be this, this outstanding, like not just good, but outstanding. but it's like they've been consistent with that and now the offense is peaking at the right time and they're finding just like the little draw RPOs the the run game now they're finding just different actual running back runs it's like these little sprinkles that are actually working it doesn't like look like they're throwing shit against a wall and hope it sticks it's actually like no we planned this like this is this is all part of our plan which is fun which is

really fun once you're hitting the playoffs and you're doing that so obviously they score on the first drive they march down the field and then on the ensuing drive the paths try to take a reasonable shot, right? I mean, when we talked about this game on Friday, we talked about how the way the bills played the Patriots, the last couple times these two teams played, no respect, zero. Sticky man coverage.

And this is, so on this play, I believe it was man coverage, and it was first in 10, right? It's first and 10 in shot territory, and they're just in man coverage the bills are. And reasonably, because he didn't play last game, and he's the guy who gives you this dial on your offense, right, this kind of feel of your offense.

They tried to hit Nelson Agar on a double move down the left side line against Levi Wallace. And Micah Hyde somehow gets all the way over there and just makes a ridiculous interception. And it's kind of crazy to say that the game flipped on an interception that happened midway through the first quarter. When he made that play, the game was over because they went down and scored a touchdown. It was 14 to nothing. Patriots punted on their next drive.

they pitched the ball on third and three from their own like 30 yard line didn't get it fourth and one as soon as they punted it away I was like this is over like this game is done as soon as they're going to kick this ball to them they're going to down and score and the game is over and it's crazy that that's how early you could feel it but you could not just the offense like the offense was like oh my god it like you could tell they had an answer for everything like it's just like they're so in control but then the defense yeah I agree with that interception because even the third down conversions the Patriots had before then. It was Mac Jones throwing off platform of creative play and then scrambling on another third

down. It's like, yeah, that doesn't seem sustainable. Feels a little different when Mac is doing it compared to when Josh Allen's doing it. I know. That's a little more like, oh, this is part of their offense. So with the Mac Jones is doing it. I'm like, oh, this is an emergency button that this offense is hitting. But like on a double move, this is a kind of quarterback philosophical thing here is what,

what do you pump when you're doing a double. move. What is the quarterback pump? Because I've had two lines like ways of thinking about this. Like different coaches I've been around. But you either pump the guy that the route's going on or you pump the opposite way of the safety and you get the safety to move from the post. Like Josh counted on the huge shot that just Stefan Diggs in this game. Exactly. But it's always young quarterbacks from high school coaches are like this. College coaches I know like this. They say, oh, you're pumping like the stop and go, the stutter and go. But it's like, well, the corner is biting on the route. Yeah, he's not even watching the quarterbacks. Yeah. Exactly. And you can see

Mac Jones pumps the route, not the safety. So Micahia can start leaning. And Mac Jones leaves the throw just a hair inside. Game of inches, game of inches. But if you don't hold the safety. I want to be clear about this. Not a bad throw, but not a perfect throw. Correct.

Just an insane play by Mike Ahio. A B throw. Like a B plus throw. And like, but it was just, that's the thing. It's like when you don't have those details, when you don't move the safety, don't hold the safety, that extra split second. You make the throw a split second inside or an inch inside. That's like, those are the,

things that compound with that. And so that's a hell of a play. And that's why I just want to speak to like with the bills, how their defense was playing the entire night. But it's like that was the thing. It was like, wow, they have to be that inch perfect to score a touchdown. The Patriots offense. That's how well the bill's defense is playing.

That's like just one, one two little not perfect plays and they're going to punish them. They get the ball back and they just score like five plays later. It was insane what like a complete performance it was. So obviously performance like that from Josh Allen, still surprising just because of how, prominent it was, but you can imagine it. A couple of guys that stuck out to me that maybe we wouldn't have expected to play like this.

Isaiah McKenzie is just awesome. I don't even know what else to say about it. You watch the ways they used him in this game. I made a joke about it on Twitter, but it feels like they were using him like a combination of Devo Samuel and Cooper Cup. Those are the things they were asking him to do in this game. Multiple different times. They lined up with him in the backfield or him in a splitback look with Gileon.

as an H-back, the way that the Niners would use Kyle Usecheck, trying to get some numbers on the perimeter like that, and they were just handing the ball to Isaiah McKenzie, and then he had a chunk play early in the game, where think about what he was doing in the first week, or the first matchup, right, in that week 16 game. How many crossers and overs did they just not slow him down on when they were playing man coverage?

So what do the Patriot? What do the bills do? They tweak that expectation. He fakes the over route and returns. against Miles Bryant for a huge chunk gain. Those return routes, where you're faking the deepovers and then getting chunks off it coming back, that's what Cooper Cup does.

Those are, it's staples of the McVeigh offense. So that's what he was today. That's how they're using him. He's just a really good player. There's nothing gimmicky or fluky about this right now. They have just found this really nice presence for their offense. Yeah, they use them the perfect amount.

Like they don't go, It's so true. It's so true. We don't use them 15 times. We're really excited and like, oh, we got to figure out. It's like, nope, they sprinkle them in just when they need it. And it gave them that horizontal stretch that the offense needs. Like it's it's like their way of attacking the perimeter on the run game.

Like it's either it's like throwing a bubble or throwing or tossing it. And we're talking about like what the Bengals did when we talked to them. But like same way. This is their way of attacking the perimeter. And it's just, I know they just stumbled upon this number four receiver that they can, it's like a plus plus weapon that gets to the edge and gets up field and creates like chunk plays every time he touches the ball. That's the and also like putting him in the backfield and do all that stuff. If the Patriots want to be in man coverage when he's on the field, all of a sudden they have to go.

How do we how do we? Okay, how do we communicate on this and how do we, which we also will probably see one of the Cowboys for an Irish game. How Debo is used too. Same exact type of thing. But it makes them communicate all the motions they use. The perfect example. The one on the hit the shot to digs. They were lined up in a three by one with Diggs to the right.

They sent McKenzie in a little fake jet little yo-yo motion, and that's the side that Alan pumps to, and then he comes back to Diggs. So even when he's not the focal point of the play, they are understanding how to use him as window dressing, eye candy, however you want to describe it. And that's what it felt like today. Obviously, Josh Allen ascended to the astral plane,

but the coolest part about this is that it was everything. every single guy doing it right. Like you said, knowing exactly how much of each ingredient to sprinkle in there. And that's what it felt like throughout the course of the entire game. Anything else just structurally or schematically that jumped out to you that you thought was cool or notable, just little things that they tapped into that you felt like were particularly effective. The Reggie Gilliam using the fullback and just, and they got to those run plays because the Patriots are matching with nickel. So they're matching with, you know, even if they go base personnel, which is their,

I don't know, you want to consider Gilling, but we're 41. So we'll call him 21 personnel. I feel like they used him exactly like the Niners used check today. Like that is, that's how they were using him. Yes, it's just like a way to kind of flip certain things. Continue. Yeah. And but using him and like they get to the counterplays and why that helps so much to have him is,

okay, if you want to match with nickel, you run certain fronts of certain personnel grouping. So if you're in base for the Patriots, you know, they have certain fronts. If they get into nickel, they have certain fronts. If they get into dime, they have certain fronts. So it's like if we can guarantee, okay, wow, they're matching us with nickel. They're going to run this front against this formation that we run with him on the field. So that's how they get to the counter.

And it's like the juicest counter look that you can get. Like, I mean, it looks like clinic tape, just how the guys are pulling to like where they have. Everybody's loaded to the other side. It's exactly what you want with a counter punch encounter. But it's like those, just sprinkling those plays in where it's not just telegraphed. It's not like he's in there. And it's like, oh, I formation run. it's like, no, they're getting to different runs and different pass plays with him in there.

It's like, oh, my God, it's another layer to their offense rather than just spread formations with option routes to Cole Beasley. You know, it's just another little package that this offense can get to. And that's just, oh, that's just such a nice thing to have, especially when the weather gets colder. You're not going to be able to chuck it. That's exactly right. And my fear with this team, when you need to run it, can you run it? When you need to, when you need to get a yard, when you need to get a couple yards, when teams are begging you to run it, can you run it? And the answer tonight was yes.

And for a lot of the reasons you said with Gilliam, the design runs for Alan were another way to tap into that. Do you know who else I thought played really well tonight? Ryan Bates. Their left guard, Ryan Bates. I mean, they've been searching for some consistency at those interior offensive line spots because they've had guys cycling in and out. They used him as a polar multiple different times in this game where he was making stuff happen.

I mean, he whacked Dante Hightower on that run that got Singletary inside the five yard line early in the game. That was just so fun to see. It's like, man, good for you, Ryan Bates. I mean, just seeing that. And then there was another player early in the game. I think it was their second drive, the Bill's second or third drive. They had a third and one.

And they lined up in heavy, heavy personnel. They had an extra tackle in the game and Knox, and I think Gillian was in there as well. And the entire left side of the Patriots or the Bill's offensive line just washed down the Patriots. and it easily Singletary scampered for like four or five yard gain and got a first down. That's a small thing. But for this team where we've wondered about their physicality in certain moments like that, to do that against the Patriots front, that's really encouraging to see. Those are the little things.

It's like, all right, man, we're checking a lot of boxes now. The one other play I wanted to mention that I just absolutely loved, a couple of them early in the game. first drive, okay, or excuse me, second drive. They come out, bills come out in quads empty, where they had four receivers to the right. Motion single-tary. They send Singletarian or motion all the way around. Yeah. It's clearly man.

You're playing with just what the defense is seeing and your understanding of what they're in. And they had Knox come all the way across with Bentley on him across the field. That's a mismatch. If you can get those linebackers in man coverage, you can take advantage of those are big guys. And watching them do that, it's like, oh, they're pulling all the right levers. And the first Knox touchdown was beautiful. Beasley was the number one receiver on the right. They sent him in jet motion, so they quickly changed the numbers.

Then Diggs was number one and Knox was number two. And Phillips flew out to get outside leverage on Dawson Knox because the Patriots were in a robber coverage with somebody in the middle of the field was McCordy. And Allen just played with the leverage just a little bit on that little glance post. and it was just a perfect ball right at the back of his drop. And it's like they're just, they have it. Like they have this game in the palm of their hands. They are every motion, every single thing they're seeing, every little tell that they're getting. They're just completely locked in right now.

And that's exactly how it felt. The one the knocks on the first drive is exactly it. Because they start and overload the four by one. And then it's like with the Patriots defense, what Belichick wants to do, everything is the structured rules. Okay, three by one, two by two. That's why you hear us talk about that all the time. Empty. Usually empty is three by two or two by three.

However, you want to like shift it. When you go into these four by ones, they have to communicate who's a double, whoever the help, where there's the help coming from if they're not bringing five. So when also that motion comes all the way around, now they have to go, okay, so who gets the help where when you have Knox working against Bentley on a vertical route? It's like, well, he has no help. I mean, it's just, but maybe he shouldn't. That's the guy you probably shouldn't help on.

And that's the terrifying thing. is when the role players are starting to burn you down, you're in real, real trouble. So, yeah, just checking all the boxes. I think that's the best way, how you put it. Now they're having answers to a question marks that we had against a really good defense. It's all of these different varied aspects to their offense. I mean, just you, if I asked you after this game, not what they've been for the last two years,

but after this game, what is the bill's offense? What would you say? I mean, they're running counter runs out of spread 21. personnel. They're still doing a lot of the spread play action stuff that we've seen from them. That's the coolest part about this is that this feels like how many layers they have to it, how many different elements there are to it. And when I was watching this game, we were talking about this a little bit before, it's impossible for me not to watch that game and what Josh Allen looked like in that offense and have dreams of Brian Daibel with Justin Fields. Right. Josh Allen is

one of the most talented quarterbacks we've ever seen. And that, not an exaggeration, just in terms of overall skill set, what he brings. We saw it tonight. It's one of the best office performances of all time. Yeah, period. Justin Fields is really, really, really talented. If you are going to pick a quarterback that's not Josh Allen that checks as many physical talent boxes, Justin Fields is probably in that conversation of non-Josh Allen quarterbacks. So, you know, obviously this job is about more than dialing up plays and being a play caller. There are personality aspects. there are leadership aspects. There are certain things that are really, really important that aren't to be overlooked.

But it's still really hard to watch that game and watch what Dable is doing with Josh Allen. And just how many different answers and how tailored it is to the quarterback and think, I want to see what he tailors around a guy like Justin Fields. We're getting ahead of ourselves. But when I watched that game, it was impossible to ignore that thought. When you say, oh, we don't really know exactly what the bill's offenses or whatever, what their identity is, that's actually a good thing. Exactly.

Yeah. Because it's not like you say that he tailors it. Answers to problems. It's not Matt Nagy running Andy Reed Jr. Offense for a guy that pushes the ball down the field. Like, and he just thinks every quarterback's Alex Smith. So it's like that's the thing. He, yeah, answers.

What Davele's done really in the past six-ish weeks, it's like, that's really been a feather in his cap. I totally agree. And this is kind of like, to da da, like this is this piece of resistance like right at the end of the, hopefully you can keep it going, of course. But it's, but honestly, it's like, yeah, there was kind of cool. to see the tweaks that he's adding. And then now it's like, oh, you can adapt to your personnel because that's what coaching is.

It's realizing who your queens on the chess boards are. And Justin Fields can potentially be that. It's really exciting what he's doing with a different kind of the same build of a quarterback, but maybe just, you know, different flavoring with Josh Allen. All right. I was wondering if we should call this segment something. I was thinking we'd call it one, two, three, Cancun. Teams that are about to go on vacation.

Hardest I have laughed on this show. Let's, uh, let's have a little bit. of an obituary for the New England Patriots in the season that they just had. When you think about the 2021 pass, it's going to be the first thing that you think about. A nice run with a rookie quarterback and they have a lot of nice pieces, but it's just like they just, it was never felt like a contender of a team, but just always like a good solid football team. And this is this is kind of what it felt like. Maybe you know, push for a wild card seed, maybe win the first game, but not a deep run. It's just like they had their limitations. But this was a nice season. I think it's

a successful season for starting with a rookie quarterback. Where do you think those limitations are? When you watch them play tonight, if you're making a to do list and kind of a wish list for what the off season should look like, where do you start? Speed at receiver. I think that is the number one thing.

They have a pretty good O line, which is so usually you always look at that. No win tonight, which is tough, you know, and that's something to think about. When's a good left tackle. He really is.

Yeah. And so, and you know, they might lose some guys in free agency. I think Trent Brown is a free agent, but on Wenu, hopefully you can step in and he'll be your right tackle. So if you look at the offensive line, hopefully they have the bodies there.

The other free agents to think about, J.C. Jackson's a free agent. That's notable. Maybe headed toward a franchise tag. I mean, if you think about just if you're reading the tea leaves and what it might look like, it wouldn't shock me. High Tower is a free agent. John Bentley is a free agent. So some guys, you know, hitting free agency, but they have some money. You know, if they want to move a couple contracts around,

it would cost them, but if they wanted to, let's say, move on from Nelson Aguilar next year and make him a post-June first cut, they could do that and save some money. Not saying that'll happen or should, but there are ways that they can save and get to $40, $50 million in cap space if they want to. I think if you're looking at this, really nice season for Mack Jones, like as good as you probably could have hoped. I wouldn't look at these last couple games and get worried. I wouldn't. I would just think, you know what? They clearly have some limitations. They've clearly bumped up against their ceiling.

What needs to happen now? You said speed. I just think a true kind of alpha receiver. A true X. Yeah. What that guy looks like, who knows? Like, maybe it's Alan Robinson. You know, somebody like that, it just feels like they need.

I don't know if they're a team that's going to spend big money on a 30-year-old receiver in free agency. But I think Alan Robinson is still pretty good. If you can go get somebody like that or you try to go get somebody like that in the draft, like this is one of those moments where the Nikiel Harry thing really hurts. Right. I mean, the draft capital you spent on him, what he was supposed to be within your offense. The fact that that no longer matters and that's still a hole for you, even after doing that and giving the money they did to Aguilar, it's tough. But it's not all that surprising.

That's what happens when you miss on the draft and have to overpay for people in free agency. Yeah, not Kendrick-born, though. But if they- Great contract, really good contracts. Great contract. That's hard to find that receiver and free agency. Jacobi Myers also a free agent. So just a lot of potential moves there that they might have to make with their offensive staff.

the guy in the second round. There's some speed. Like, there's some good guys they can find the second. Like, they don't have to even spend a first on a guy. Like, there's some guys that will work. There's different flavors in this draft. And also just an offseason of them going, what understanding what Mack Jones is, a whole season of going. Okay. This is what we had as a Patriots offense. Josh McDaniel's offense. Okay. All right. So what's, Mac, what did you like? What didn't you like? Not treating him like a rookie wearing number 50 during training camp. Actually going like, hey, this is our alpha quarterback. Okay. Hey, hey, oh, some of that shock and RPO stuff. that you did in college. Okay, maybe we can tweak that in there. You know, like just some new sprinklings that maybe, you know, blends what he can do well, which is probably going to happen. Josh McDaniels is good at that.

So that's another thing that you can look forward to in the next season. But yeah, I just think finding that number one speedy type of guy would just compliment who they have in Hunter Henry, Kendrick Bourne, even John Hussmith, you know, all those types of guys that they have. If you're trying to spend this in the most optimistic way possible, you try to convince yourself as a Patriots fan that Mack Jones is Joe Burrow from last year. And I think there are different elements to their game. I think that Burroughs pocket movement, I think, gives him a higher ceiling when it comes to explosive plays.

It's just being able to kind of extend. He's also bigger. Yes. So, I mean, it's not a one-to-one comparison. But just think about accuracy, decision-making, lack of receiving talent being one of the reasons that you can't find explosive plays. I mean, just think about how different the Bengals offense looks in year two with somebody like Jamar Chase. Obviously, the New England won't be picking in the first round of the top five. But that would be how I try to spin it as a Patriots fan if I was thinking best case scenario.

A lot of their numbers look the same. If you just look at the overall kind of shape of their rookie season, there are a lot of similarities. So that's kind of how I'd be thinking about it if I were talking myself into what year, what year two of Mac Jones might look like. What they need to find isn't the hardest. That's what's nice. That's what's really nice. Let's get.

to Raiders, Bengals, all right? First things first. Sad I wasn't at this game. I was really looking forward to it. You know, it's been kind of a shitty week sitting in my house and not feeling 100%. The worst part has been every time my fiance has tested negative over the last few days, she'll just be like, I'm just built different and then just keep walking. She's just being, I'm just built different.

She just does it every single day. It's actually very funny, but I resent her a lot. I also resent not being able to be at this. game because it would have been very, very cool to see that environment. Because those moments, when it's been 30 years since you've won a playoff game, and you've bottled this excitement about somebody like Burrow and what this offense has looked like and you feel like you've found your guy and that guy just exudes pure confidence in the way that Burrow does, I mean, there is something really cool about that moment.

And for them to win this game and just what it's been like and what it's felt like it's kind of have this we're here moment as a fan base in that building. Those are really, really special days. I would have loved to have seen that, but you could definitely feel it even through the TV. Oh, absolutely. That, yeah, Cincinnati and Buffalo just outstanding atmospheres. Like, you forget last year's too, especially with Buffalo is that they, you know, it was COVID year. So there's no fans for those playoff games. So now you get kind of like, it's that pent up energy. You see guys doing Randy, Randy, Macho Man, Elbow, drops. Oh my gosh. Perfect form, by the way. That was like, bravo to whoever that guy was.

Josh Allen had one of the best games in the history of the playoffs today. That was the most impressive performance in Orchard Park today. Was that guy doing the macho man elbow onto that table? Perfect. Yeah, but yeah, but say you can feel it just in Cincinnati, like especially after the strip sack and you could just feel that. Totally. Like, and you, yeah, like you said, you could feel it through the TV and it's like you get those goosebumps, that kind of feeling. Like when you're at a live game and then you go, then you watch it on TV like a year or two later you watch some different game. You're like, oh, man, I remember what that feeling is, that smell that kind of like,

your high five and brand of people sitting next to you like that type of kind of like, like kind of feeling. But that's just the just the best. And it's really cool to see when especially it's three decades of pent up energy. I mean, that's all you ever heard about Marvin Lewis's tenure there was, oh, it couldn't win a playoff game there with all the talent. And it's like, you just, oh, but when you have Joe Burroughs smoking cigars and you kind of like have not just a, oh my God, we're lucky to be here.

but like you said, a confidence, even when we have injuries at the offensive front, it's like, well, we still got Joe Burrow. That's such a cool feeling

to have as a franchise, like the mouthwash of a good quarterback. It's just like, man, that's what it felt like today, though, right? I mean,

this was not the most explosive fireworks show sort of performance from our offense, but they felt really in control. You know, that was to me, I don't have one bad drive, like off top of my head.

That was just good. And I thought they did a few different things that really stuck out. It was they did such a great job. of making the Raiders wrong however they wanted to play it, right? If you were early in the game, just picking on any sort of cushion they gave Chase, they were more than happy to take any sort of comeback that was there.

If they wanted to go play an empty and have Boyd play with whoever was covering him in the slot, it was just a very in control sort of game. None of those big monster shots down the field that we had seen, but that's exactly what the Raiders were taking away. And when they were taking those things away, the Bengals were happy to say, we'll take whatever you're going to give us.

If you want to give us all that space and all that cushion, happy to eat it up. And the other thing, I thought they did a really good job of what we're talking about controlling the tempo of the game and the feeling of the game. Burrow on first and second down today, 2.5 average time to throw. They never, ever allowed that pass rush to get going.

Ever. Did a really good job of chipping in the right moments, a couple third and longs where they got heated up in ways that you might expect. And because, The Raiders blitzed twice today. They blitzed two times. The second time they did it was in the fourth quarter on the third and seven where they bought the slot.

And Burrough saw it, identified it, said it was coming before the play happened, and then hits Chase over the top for a 14-yard gain. And it's like, well, I guess we can't do that. And that's why. That's why you can't. And you could just feel that sense of unease with Gus Bradley, with the way the Raiders are playing defense, the entire game because Burrow held the controller in his hand the entire time.

That's what it felt like from the start. And that's like game plan coming together. Game plan knowing which weaknesses are. And so like props to the Bengals coaches. Like I mean, it's kind of obvious. You know what the weaknesses are of the Bengals offense. It's off. It's a line.

But it's like knowing, hey, let's get the ball out quick. And Burrow is so good at that anyways. And then he can create a little bit afterwards. But they're just hitting Burr, like hitting on the outside. They're just running seam turn concepts, which is just, Two seams on the inside. You think of four verts, instead of the outside guys run verticals,

they stop. You call it a turn around, a stop route, a deep hitcher out, whatever you want to call it. But it's not quick game, but that ball comes out. If you're in the gun,

it goes one, two, three, plant throw. Yeah. So that ball, that's why it's under two and a half seconds because really it's a two second throw. It's extended quick game,

essentially, because it's pick aside. And really on those types of concepts, it's one to two to check down, one to two to check down, one to two to check down. But say you shortcut a throw and go, I got Jamar Chase on

insert corner name here I mean it was too fine after Trifon got hurt I mean you got Desmond Troufan who's bounced around the league I mean he was a bear at one point before this season started I mean then he was in New Orleans

for a second I mean it's there's been a lot of that and for him to be on Jamar Chase in these moments there's not a lot you can do I mean especially when he's getting away with little pushoffs earlier it's the short arms we thought the short arms would be a downside They actually are an upside to his game because the rest are never going to call it. He's just going to jack guys like a little punch with a jab.

But like even one of the back shoulder throws because that's what in a Seattle defense, when they treat every corner like he's prime Richard Sherman. So this is why they teach this. They go, stay over the top. Make them throw underneath you. They make him throw back shoulders. But guess what? When it's, you know, Richard Sherman reading routes like, yeah, it's great.

But when you have old Desmond Truffon, I love you, Desmond Truffant, but him trying to stay on top. like, okay, we'll just throw back shoulders over and over and over. And then as soon as they get, as soon as they step up even 10 seconds, two inches, we're throwing it right over the top. And it happened multiple times. And that's just that. That's all it is.

That lever they had the entire game. You could feel it. I think the Raiders needed to play, not a perfect game, but a really good game. They needed to be like one of the better versions of this Raiders team. They couldn't kick field goals. And they weren't today. They just weren't today. Think about how many self-inflicted wounds we saw from the Raiders in this game.

Let's start with the late game spike. Oh, you can't? Oh, my God, can we? You can't do it. I mean, it's,

you cannot do it. You have to understand in that moment with 30 seconds left, the down is more important than the time. Yes. And they just, again, the same way it felt like their defense was scrambling, you could sense that unease all day.

Yep. In these game management situations, you could sense that unease from the Raiders. You had the spike in that moment. Earlier in the second half, they burned two time out. in plays where you just can't do it. Hayward had to burn one when they had 12 men on the field.

And then before the fourth and five, they had to burn another one. So now when you need those timeouts later in the game, eventually you have to spike the ball on first down and you lose it down. I mean, it just all starts to compound. It does. And especially all the holdings.

I mean, they're getting offensive. I was getting penalties like the infinity got went. Every single one. Oh my God. And all big plays. That's the thing. None of them were like a one or two yard gain.

No. It was all eight yards, 12 yards 14 yards first down like what the one was going to the one yard line and then that guy i mean that just changes the entire complexion of the game but like and like it's just so funny like uh running those plays too like as just like their offense like a spike in the ball why you don't want to do that is like you said the downs you have no timeouts we know that but it's 30 seconds and you're first thing goal like you're this is it you got four plays you can't count on nine penalties like the bangles got against the chiefs a few weeks ago like you

This is it. So we have four plays. Each play in your head, a NFL play typically takes four seconds. So it's pretty much. You have a lot of time there. Like we can run an extended route with seven seconds. Even the Josh Allen Scramble play took nine seconds, you know, to Dawson Knox. So it's like, you know you have enough time to get these plays off.

So that's why they get to, they do so much no huddle stuff, so much at the line stuff with Derek, with Derek Carr, because he's so intelligent. But that's the thing. That also leads to the fourth down timeouts because he's trying to get to the perfect play. and sometimes like, hey, just line up and go. That happened all day today. You're on the road. He's trying to talk in somebody's ear, trying to change something at the last moment,

or he's walking up to the line. He's like, what do we do? Let's do this. Let's do this. And they're ticking down the play clock until two seconds every single time. And it's like, ah, it was driving me nuts. I was making me physically anxious while watching the game. And just, again, it led to that feeling of unease that they had.

And I thought that the final play. It's fourth down from the nine-yard line. How are you going to have Zay Jones stop at the one? And then they had Darren Waller in the flat. So to that side, you have somebody standing at the five and you have your deeper route one and a half yards short of the end zone. Like you can't have one guy near the end zone on that sort of play. And that's just what it was.

I mean, it's a small thing to get so worked up about. But those things really started to accumulate over this game. especially when you're not as good as the other team. Yes. Those sorts of things really cannot happen. So that's why those, I'm sorry, but those lack of details compound because like,

okay, Derek and Carr are trying to get to the perfect play, the one where he throws the flat to Renfro. So, okay, so he throws the flat to Renfro. Okay, he checks into that because the Bengals are throwing a pressure look.

Okay, they're going out from three by one or like from the line of scrimmage all the way to trying to run out to it. But the problem was, that it was a tight split, and then all of a sudden they throws a flat, and Deshaun Jackson is the one trying to block. So it's like, oh, man, that's just so brutal, so brutal to have. Like, and it's like, I get that they're trying to get to the perfect point, but it just, it's not, it's not perfect. And so that it's just absolutely brutal.

If you're looking at it from the moments where the game kind of swung, I would say they were two. The whistlegate, we're going to have a long conversation about it, right? I mean, as well, we should. Early in the game, Raiders, understandably so, one of, historically bad, Red Zone, offense this year when it came to give or defense this year when it came to giving up touchdowns, tried to throw a little bit of a curb ball. Said, all right, when we get down here and it's going to be third down, we're dropping eight. We're dropping eight and just flooding the end zone with defenders and hopefully that's

going to give you some trouble. And it did. And on that one third and four, Burrough uses that to escape, gets out of the pocket, is on the sideline, nearly steps out of bounds, whips it back to Tyler Boyd. And whistle blows, no call. And the league has come back in the side. essentially admitted that it was the wrong call. It should have been blown dead. We should have replayed the down. And on that play, I mean, that's a game swinging type of result. Not sure it would

have mattered in the end. But in the moment, it's a huge deal. And deferring to the NBC rules analyst as like, oh, yeah, no, he's got a, he's the one that, yeah, he's got it. He's got it. We're not going to actually say anything. But he's got it. He actually covered all that. But oh, my God, that was just like even I get it. I get it. It's like, I think the touchdown would have happened anyways, but the fact that they didn't even need to blow the whistle because Burrow didn't get out about. So it's like, oh my God, that's just, you're just compounding the issue of not only that you make the wrong call that you blew the whistle in the middle of the play, even though they said, even though sound travels slower than light, they say that the whistle happened after the

touchdown, even though the whistle clearly happened right after Burrow through the ball. So I don't know if they're just really trying to bend physics with that as well. But that, that just honestly, was just such an incredible, like, insane kind of play. Like, it really was. And I'm sorry if I'm sounding like a robot. It's okay. And then so the other one that was a huge play. And again, if you wanted to attack this up to mistakes by the Raiders,

the Hendrickson strip sack. Yeah. I don't understand the protection. So it's a max protect call because you have the tight end coming across the formation. I think you had the tight end coming across. No, they had the tight end locks on the backside against Hendrickson. And they had a running back coming across. I wasn't sure if it was.

supposed to be play action the way that the action was working it's their full slide like they get to that when they're trying to go for a shot play but they only run the routes to one side of the field usually with it and so it's yeah it's kind of like a flash play action but it's like a full slide protection they do just say hey we're going to wot it up because they don't want to sort out any of the blitzes or anything like that yeah i mean it's one of those things where it was third nine so trying to use play action there wouldn't have made sense to me so i think that makes more sense. But when on the structure of that play, you have Hendrickson alone on Foster Moreau. That's a mismatch. That's absolutely a mismatch. He takes advantage of it. And you have guys

wasted on the other side. They brought Jesse Bates on a blitz. Jesse Bates had a really nice game, by the way. We'll talk about that in a second. But Hendrickson, Rose Moreau, Strip Sack, and is a huge game swinging play. Eventually, obviously, they are held to a field goal in that moment. The Raiders actually did a pretty good job of kind of, kind of, sort of. shuring themselves up down in the red zone today. But again, it's a huge moment that feels like as much of a Raiders mistake as it is a really nice play by Hendrickson. Well, that too.

Yeah. And also they went to the same protection on the two minute drive on a third down and with Darren Waller as the blocker on an edge. And then they did it again on the fourth down. And it's like to me it's lazy because what they're doing is they're full sliding and saying, we're not sorting out eight bullets is that come. We're just going to wot it up and that's that. But it's like having Darren Waller.

stay in. He's one of your best receivers. He's one of the better tight ends in the league. And it doesn't understand to me on a third and season type of play and a fourth down and season type of play that all of a sudden that they're just like, boom, that's it. Like we're, no, we're going to have wall or protect as opposed to getting them out on a route. So that kind of stuff just like, it's like weird lack of detail that they had in like really, really, really big plays for the season. All right. Just digging into some of the specifics of what the Bengals did, anything schematically offense, defense that jumped out to you that he thought was particularly important. We already kind of touched on it, but all those quick hitters, like even

offensively, like they hit 989, which, you know, me and I love. And it just, it just talked to also like, okay, so they did quick game on third down a little bit, which is like stick. They did slot choice. They did slant flats a couple times. They hit with Jamar Chase on one on a slant. So they had quick game. And then when they went to the down the field stuff, it was like you mentioned before, it's of seven man protections or it was, it was Joe Burrow going. Oh, the gun. It's either under center. It's five hitch and throw from the gun.

It's three hitch and throw. Three hitch throws back shoulder, Jamar Chase. That ball was just getting out, out, out. All the play action stuff was quick hitters. So it was just everything just, they had a real game plan.

They went, our right guard can't block a soul. There was even one pressure. I think that one of those two pressures they brought. He was like turned sideways like completely. Yeah, it was the Jamar Chase ball. He was like completely,

they're like, even the commentator was like, oh man, they really picked up that pressure. And you look and the right guard was looking at the sideline as the blitzer went right behind him. So it might be something to look for for next week. But it was, they just had a really good game plan. I think offensively, it was just, hey, we, we know exactly what our weakness is. We know what our strength is. All right, spam it. Let's get the

ball out. What's what Joe Burrow make plays. And I think they did a really good job of it. Speaking of pressure looks, that was really jumped out to me is the Bengals pressure looks when they were on defense. So they blitzed on seven dropbacks. Not a lot. Teams are, it's funny because you look at it. I believe these two guys, I think Carr and Burrow, this season are what were one and two in air yards per attempt to win blitzed. Both of these guys get really aggressive when teams send pressure. And they burn teams. They make teams pay for it. So not a ton of blitzes from either side. But the Bengals brought seven pressures today. On those plays, Derek Carr finished one of five for 13 yards with two sacks. Wow.

He averaged negative 0.138 EPA. Wow. A bad EPA is like a fifth of that. Yeah. That's how bad they were on those plays today. And a couple of that really stuck out, obviously, the strip sack was the biggest one. They brought heat on that play. The other one that I absolutely love the design of was the one in the shadow of their own goalpost. And the terrible play by Peyton Barbara on the kickoff, which we didn't even talk about just in the tapestry of mistakes by the Raiders today. So on third down in that drive, they lined up, and he did this a couple times today, but they lined up Hubbard off the ball as a linebacker. Yeah. So as part of the design, they had Okunjobie as the nose and BJ Hill was the other was the three technique. So they had Ok and Joby kind of take care of the center and then Hill came all the way across on a stunt, picked the center, and then Hubbard came back around behind it. It was a really nice design, just a different way to kind of attack them. I thought it was really, really nice.

And then a couple other plays, just again, small examples. Hilton came off a slot pressure and blew up a run play. And Sam Hubbard cleaned it up. Hubbard had a couple nice plays in this game. First drive, he pushed the right tackle into Carr's back or into Carr's lap. And he had, I want to say it was Hunter Renfro on that play. And Hilton was able to catch up on that play because of the pressure that Hubbard got. And I thought overall, the defensive lineman that played for the Bengals really stepped up in this game.

I thought had some really nice moments. Ogen Jobb – or excuse me, DJ Reeder drew two big holding penalties, two. And there were only two defensive tackles by the time this game ended for the Bengals. I mean, they had so many guys go out because Daniels was hurt, Tupo was already hurt, Ogon Jopi went down, and then Hendrickson had a concussion. So for the guys that were in the game to make plays consistently was really important. Reader drawing those holds and Hubbard making just a scattered few plays here and there ended up becoming really important. And the other guy on the Bengals that I definitely wanted to mention is Jesse Bates.

I mean, he had three, four plays today that ended up becoming huge plays. He blitzed on the Hendricks and Sacks, just the fact that they trust him to do that, I think is telling. And then the play he made on Renfro, that saves a huge. huge play on that PBU that he had down the left sideline. I mean, that was a monster kind of swing moment in the second half. Because that's when right when the Raiders felt like they were starting to put some stuff together. And it was just like, oh, there was another chalk play here. Oh, oh, it was kind of like shocking to see how to Redefro drop a ball.

Yeah. Not only that, it was like two, it felt like two steps after. But it was like, it was just a great play. You played through the whistle. You played through the hands. The other thing I, yeah, Jesse Bates played a really good game. And this is like, this is this is the value that he has. He's a guy that does everything well.

He's not the fastest guy, but like, you know, maybe not the best hitter or anything, but he does everything well. He can like make those types of plays in coverage. He can blitz. He can like, he knows how to line guys up. It's like a very, very valuable guy to have. Lying guys up is a great way to put it. He almost had the pick in the final drive in the red zone where he just red car's eyes the whole time.

Then there was another play. I think it was a second down. And they were playing some sort of. of robber coverage with him dropped down where he was not the depost safety but he was dropped down and he just drove on foster morrow on a crossing route and broke it up just little tiny things there are four or five of those moments stay for him that were impressive yes and you know it's another thing too is so funny both teams running split zone so much just like a totally off topic thing but it it's funny like i guess bradley defense because he's stuck in 2014 with his defense that it's like

a lot of one of the plays that teams attack him because the bangles kind of go like like, okay, what are the coverages that we're playing this time? Okay, we'll make it a, okay, we're going to just run those ones, those beaters against this cover three. And so that's why you saw the jet sweeps today. And you saw the split zone because they're taking advantage of just the cover three fronts, not just coverages, but the fronts that come with cover three or single high defenses. So it was just really funny seeing the Bengals get to it. And then also on the flip side, the Raiders getting to it on the exact same drive. It was like, jet sweep, split zone.

Like both both teams probably doing it to each other. And it was just, yeah, I don't know. It was just kind of funny seeing that happen, like drive after drive. It's like, oh, that was a good play. Oh, the Raiders ran it too. Oh, okay. The Bengals ran the exact same run play. But just kind of funny seeing that because some of the fronts were similar

that are getting played today. And then also some of the offensive like run looks were the same from both teams. I also love the last bit I'll talk about the fourth and one toss to Jarre's out of empty. Just that really cool design. Make it look like a smart way. Smart way to get him in the, to get to get him the ball. And they, with Burrow going under center. the defensive line condensed

toward the ball and that just gave them an edge to be able to hit that play which is again a little small moment that I really appreciate it. All right. Let's one, two, three, Cancun here for the Raiders

and what their offseason is going to look like. Obviously, it starts with a coaching search, right? I think that if they, if Passaccia wins a couple of games there, maybe he gets the job, that's always scary to me. I just don't think that's really worked out.

I think you're making a long-term decision. for short-term results and even if he's done a really admirable job, which he 100% has, by the way. Correct. I mean, keeping this thing on the tracks, he deserves a ton of credit for that. I think it's probably best for them to cast a pretty wide net with what this coaching search should look like. Yeah.

That's exactly it. It starts there. And then you, honestly, it sounds funny, but it starts at the top. Yeah, but just going head coach and then it's the next step up is what happens with the quarterback, you know, because I could go and the GM. Because I mean, that's, I think those are three very important spots on a football team. I think so. I think so.

My team has never had all three at the same time. So I can attest to the fact that they're all important. That article was incredible. When they, when he spell out what the bears have gone through since Lovie, it's like kind of like, wow. Like with just like when the ESPN and I had an article earlier this year about what exactly the Giants and Jets have been this last decade. And you just kind of when you spell it out, you're like, wow, that's a lot of shit. That's the idea of keeping pace was always like, are you really going to do this?

We don't have to spend a lot of time on this, but continuing to keep some GM for no reason that you have to force a match with. That's why if you're the Raiders, like, New get it. Mike Mayock, really appreciate your time.

I really appreciate all the work you've done. You found some really decent players. We'll get to that in a second. It's probably time to start over. We don't need to force a marriage that doesn't need to be forced. Let's try to get everything aligned on the same page and go from there. And I think if you bring in a new head coach and a new GM, what the question they'll have to answer is,

what do we do with Carr? And Ian Rappap report reported today that his future might be tied to the head coach. And we've talked about this a lot on the show. If he's up for, if he's up, if he's available, if he's on the block, people should be lining up. No, he is not a top five quarterback. He's not a top eight quarterback,

but he's probably a top 10 or 11 quarterback. And for some of the teams that are needy at the position, that is worth its weight in gold this off season. especially after last offseason all the ones that struck out on it. You don't think, though, like every team that's just been dying for competency at that position are going to just go like, oh, man, we got, we're a piece, we're a piece away and we upgrade our quarterback two tiers. Oh, my God. And I think his contract's very reasonable. That's the thing you should probably send him to a new deal.

Okay, yes. So that has to be a consideration with whatever price you're going to pay. But it's going to be fascinating. The Colts might be in the quarterback market. Oh, yeah. There are more and more teams. getting added to the list here. And I think that those teams should absolutely kick the tires on Derek Carr.

If you're the new front office or coaching staff, you're the new power structure with Las Vegas and you walk into the building, I don't think it's delusional to look at a core that has car side, Colton Miller, Hunter Renfro, Darren Waller, who's 30, and it was dinged up this year. Nate Hobbs was a really good pick in the secondary this year. Trevor Mourig is a rookie. And Gokwe is expensive, but I think he had some moments this year.

He's really the only expensive veteran they're going to have on this team that's an outside free agent signing. I don't, Colt Motor doesn't really count to me. He's a $16 million left tackle next year. You do that every single time. If they move on from Littleton,

they don't really have any pricey free agent deals. A lot of these guys they brought in as the Gus Bradley kind of paper it over team were on one year deals, which makes sense, right? Yeah. So you have a team with $50 million in Capspace and some pretty decent players at high value positions. And I think you, with the right coach and if a coach likes Carr,

I don't think it's the worst thing to kind of move forward with that group and say, you know what, we could probably be pretty good with the right moves if you surrounded this. If we went out and got like a true number one, right? a true number one receiver to pair with Renfro and Waller and Josh Jacobs and a couple pieces on this line. The line is a concern, right? Like the two steps back that they took this off season to kind of use that money and spread it around, it ultimately cost them. You know, Leatherwood has had a rough year.

Brandon Parker had a pretty brutal game at times today. I mean, multiple missteps for pretty much every single member of the line. That needs to be addressed. But you have money to do it. You're not really tied into any of those guys. I mean, I think it's a kind of intriguing job if you're looking at what other openings are available because, I mean, this is, and would you rather have the Vikings job or the Raiders job? I think the Raiders, because Vikings is like a, almost like a nuke situation, right?

And then, but not in a good way. And then the Raiders is like, hey, we have pieces, but it's more like a retooling. And it's also like, you kind of, if you get carte blotch to do what you want, there's stuff you could do. There's so many more paths that you can have. The Vikings, it's more like, we might have to take a sec before we can make a next step. Raiders, it's like, man, we can get there pretty quick. I think it'll depend on what expectations are from ownership, right? That's great.

And you can blow this up. And in 2023, you can have a total blank slate. I think it's a really good job. But if you're talking about what you want to do in 2022, how many games can you win? If you keep car, I think it's actually a pretty promising group of players. So we'll see. I mean, it's a team that we knew this, right? We've known this for since the Grewdon.

news happened. We've known that they were headed toward a franchise reset. And I think that it is a little bit rosier with a little bit more light at the end of the tunnel than it might have seemed, you know, maybe coming into the year with, you know, let's say if they, if Groon got fired even because they've failed to mean expectations. I don't think they're really at a dead end in the way you might think after some of the money that they've spent. A guy like Crosby coming on like he did, you have a pass rusher, a left tackle, a really nice receiver in Renfro, a couple young dbs you can build around that like that is not a bad place to start and that's kind of the point they're starting from yeah the only thing i think the hardest selling point is oh yeah you

have to play mahomes in a herbert four games a year it's a good point that's a very good point i think that's actually going to be the hardest selling point for any coach or gm i mean there's no state income tax here in Vegas as well so you know that's also really nice but it's also going like i have to play against number 10 and number 15 four times a year that's going to be rough but yeah No, I agree. I think that it's a little more intriguing. I mean, to say intriguing,

but just like, hey, I got some stuff here. If you get time, if you just really get the, they are going to have the resources now. But like, there's so many more paths.

It's all about paths that you can go on. It's not going, we have to reboot. We have to nuke it. We have to, we have to win now. If we can just kind of pick how we want to go with what we put together, that helps a lot,

as long as you don't have to go against Mahomas and Herbert four times a year. That's one more thing to have to consider here. All right. Guys, if you root for one of the teams that we have talked about tonight and you don't listen to our local shows that cover those teams, I don't know what you're doing. You absolutely should go check those out. They're fantastic. I highly recommend them. If you're a Bengals fan, please go check out, hear that podcast growling with Paul Deiner Jr. and Jay Morrison. Paul's been on the show many times. It's a great team podcast. I mean, sure you will love it if you're a Bengals fan who doesn't listen. With the Raiders, we have State of the Nation with Vic Tafer, Jim. me Durkin, Ted Nguyen, and Tashon Reed. I highly recommend you go check that out. And in Buffalo, we have the Buffalo beat with Joe Buscaglia. Again, a really, really good local show that covers the team totally in-depth.

Please go check those out if you have not. That's all we have for today. Please enjoy the games on Sunday, if you're listening to this on Sunday. We will be back on Monday morning with another show that includes a review of the Sunday games and a preview of Rams Cardinals. We're going to push that one more day, so we have a little bit more time to prep for it. Sincerely appreciate you guys doing it.

Please rate and review the podcast on your podcast platform of choice, and please subscribe to the athletic. Theathletic.com slash football show. Highly recommend that you guys do that. We will be back tomorrow with recaps of all the Sunday action. Until then, appreciate you guys listening. Talk to you soon. This was The Athletic Football Show.