The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Offseason Buy or Sell: The Playoff Hopefuls

Episode Date: May 20, 2025

Seven of the eight teams in this edition of Offseason Buy or Sell made the playoffs last year, and the one that didn't, the Bengals, had one of the best offenses in the league. In other words, each of these teams goes into this season with realistic playoff hopes, and some of them are harboring even bigger dreams than that. So how do we feel about what they all did this offseason? Robert Mays and Derrik Klassen make buy or sell calls on the Steelers, Vikings, Bengals, Buccaneers, Packers, Broncos, Texans and Chargers on this episode of The Athletic Football Show.Hosts: Robert Mays and Derrik KlassenExecutive Producer: Michael BellerProducer: Michael BellerSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...⁠Apple⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠YouTube⁠Follow Robert on Bluesky: @robertmays.bsky.socialFollow Derrik on Bluesky: @qbklass.bsky.socialFollow Robert on X: @robertmaysFollow Derrik on X: @QBKlassTheme song: HauntedWritten by Dylan Slocum, Trevor Dietrich, Ruben Duarte, Kyle McAulay, and Meredith VanWoert / Performed by Spanish Love SongsCourtesy of Pure Noise / By arrangement with Bank Robber Music, LLC Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. Our buy or sell series on NFL off-seasons continues today. Derek Classen joined me to chat about the teams that were bucketing as the playoff hopefuls. These are teams with over-unders from like eight and a half to nine and a half-ish teams that are going to be on the cusp of wild card. A lot of really good conversations here. We had some back and forth about the chargers and whether or not we're actually into how measured they were in their approach about the Vikings, the Bengals, a lot of really interesting teams in this group.

Very much enjoyed this conversation with Derek. So let's get to it right now. Buy or Sell rolls on today. We are getting into the really good teams. We're getting into the teams that are supposed to make the playoffs by virtue of betting odds and expectations and all of that good stuff. So this is our third of these four shows. We will be hitting the contenders in this exercise next week.

I don't know about you, Derek. When I was prepping for this this morning, I was really enjoying it. Like, this is one of those shows I was very excited to do. We did the lingering questions. We started that yesterday and I'm feeling the juice of like actually watching NFL games again. So I think I'm just still riding that high 24 hours later. I think it is partly that.

And I think this is also the range where you start to be like, you have to tell yourself a bit of a fairy tale with some of them. But like these are teams that reasonably could go to the Super Bowl if a couple of things break. Right. For some of them, that's probably not true. But there are like one or two where it's like you could start to talk yourself into it. So the fact that we are finally approaching the part of this process where you can start to see some of the conference contenders and stuff like that, I'm into it. I'll also say this was a collection of teams where I really had to go back and forth. I'm going to make a joke about it later.

But a couple of these are like the Larry David Giff where it's just like, I don't know. That's how I felt with several of these. Just a heads up when it comes to timelines here. I want to be transparent with you guys because of the next thing that we're going to talk about. We're recording this on Thursday, May 15th. It is running on Tuesday, May 20th, because I'm going on vacation. So we're banking a bunch of different shows here over the last couple of weeks. And so some of the shows we've already recorded are going to be running before we run this one slash after.

The reason I'm talking about this is we're about the Caleb Williams, Seth Wickersham situation that came to light on Thursday after the excerpt from Seth's book was published. I wanted to talk about it in some capacity. and this is the best outlet and the quickest outlet for me to talk about it, even though this show is running five days later. So we didn't forget to do this for five days. We're just doing it now and you guys were hearing about it a few days later because of what our recording schedule looks like and because we're banking a bunch of shows for when I'm gone. Just throwing that out there and to be clear before we dig into this.

It's June. That's the way that those things are going to go. I don't even want to spill my thoughts on the Caleb William things yet. You're the Chicago guy. I kind of want to see where this is going to go first. It's the only reason I felt compelled to respond to it is because if I didn't respond to it, I think it would kind of be weird based on how damning some of those quotes were. So if you guys have not seen it, Seth Wickersham, who is a friend of mine and has been on this show,

is releasing a book in the fall that I'm very excited to read just about quarterbacks throughout the last 20, 30 years of the NFL. Some guys who are young, some guys who are current, established players, some quarterbacks who are out of the league. part of that book is about Caleb Williams. In the book, in the excerpt that was released, Caleb Williams and his dad say that they did not want to go to the Bears before last season. They were exploring avenues to potentially go to the U.FL to circumvent the collective bargaining agreement. They were going to do everything they could to not go to Chicago.

I want to address that part first and then get to two more elements of this here in a second. That part of it, I completely understand. based on the organization's quarterback history, and just think about this if you're Caleb and Carl Williams. You have been building to this moment for 21 years. You've done everything you could to put your son in a position to have a successful, celebrated NFL career. This is now the first time as a football player,

he is unable to control his destiny about where he goes and who he's going to play with. Trying to exhaust every option you can to make sure you're putting him in the right situation, given your shared history and given your obligations as a parent, I completely understand this. And so I don't mind that part of it whatsoever. Them getting to a place where they decided they weren't willing to get their hands dirty

and nuke the city is what the quote was because that's what would have taken to convince the bears not to draft him. I think that also makes sense. But that whole part of it, I don't really see a ton of issues with that based on the bear's quarterback history and based on how they're looking at this as father and son. I don't blame him at all. Think about how much time we spend talking about how much environment and supporting cast and coaching is for all of these young quarterbacks. And so for our position, we can be like, man, it would be great if we could put X guy in X really good situation. So I'm not going to paint the player himself as being a bad guy when he's like, well, I don't want to play in the bad situation. I want to go play with Kevin O'Connell, who everybody involved in the sport believes that Kevin O'Connell is one of the smartest and like well thought out. coaches in the entire NFL, I could see why a guy as smart as Caleb is like, well, yeah, of course I want that guy coaching me and that guy pushing me.

And that even bleeds into some of the stuff that he was saying at the end of this piece about Ben Johnson, where he's excited about playing with Ben Johnson because he feels like he's going to push him. And so I get, I don't feel like Caleb is painted as the bad guy at all in this. If I was a player in his position where, again, you have been working to this for 21 years where you're going to be the best player coming out of the draft, I would like to control it a little bit if I can, so I don't blame them for exploring that. The Kevin O'Connell part of this is the second thing that I want to address.

This is a reminder. The entire situation last year with the way the Bears' offensive coaching staff and coaching staff in general was organized, this was completely avoidable. They did not have to bring back that coaching staff. I said it in the moment that it was a mistake. When you're drafting this guy first overall, there is not a compelling enough reason to keep Matt Iberfluse based on the defensive improvements and start over again with Shane Waldron, who is in the best case scenario, a middle of the pack offensive coordinator.

This is not hindsight. I said it in the moment over and over and over again and firmly believed it. Organizations are not a monolith, okay? When Caleb Williams says that he was excited to play for the Vikings, what does the Vikings history of successful quarterback development look like? Organizations are not monoliths. They are the people that comprise the organization. he was really interested in the Vikings after having that conversation with Kevin O'Connell.

Do you think he would have been interested in playing for the Vikings when John D. Filippo was the offensive coordinator for Mike Zimmer? Or do you think like any player in the league was excited about playing for the Lions as recently as three years ago? No, because it's, yeah. So how do you bypass that dynamic? You probably could have hired Ben Johnson a year ago. And maybe not.

But Albert Breyer has reported that he probably would have taken the job if he were offered it a year ago. And maybe we don't know if that's exactly the case. And maybe this all works out in the end. But it was not difficult to see in the moment from afar that the bears were putting an unnecessary obstacle in front of them by bringing that staff back. So I think that's part of this is that organizations get painted in certain ways when it comes to quarterbacks, receivers, whatever players or positions have failed to develop in those

spots. If you change out the component parts and you get a really good offensive coach in there, you can change the reputation of your organization pretty quickly. they decided not to explore that avenue and it left them in the spot they were in last spring. That's the thing with, you know, organizations are not monoliths. It's like, oh, the bears have never had a quarterback. Well, that doesn't mean they can't ever have a quarterback. It's just that for, you know, 100 years, they've struggled to do it.

But like you said, if you get the right people in the building, then, yes, you can go have a good quarterback. And so for them to have hired Ben Johnson, hopefully that is what we're going to get out of Caleb Williams at this point. We've talked about this. They've never hired an offensive minded head coach who was the primary, Clay Carr at his former job. That has never happened in the modern era of the organization. There's a reason that they haven't had any good quarterbacks. They have not assembled the franchise in a way that sets up good quarterbacks or

quarterbacks to be successful. The last thing I'll say about this and the quotes that were in that excerpt, the film watching part of it, where Caleb comes out and he says, no one told me where to watch film or how to watch film. I think that is not surprising based on some of the stuff I've heard about him and some of the stuff I've heard about just the way that the dialogue and the communication happened in that building last year. And I think this is something where maybe somebody will look at that and just be like, why isn't he more of a self-starter? And I just think that's the wrong way to conceive of it.

I feel like when you have a 21-year-old kid in any business, in any field, it is on the management in that place to help that young person become the best version of themselves. And this is something, I don't know if I've said here, but I'll just say it now. at the combine, I was talking to a coach on the Cardinal staff, and he told me that Ben Johnson sought out a conversation with him so he could learn about how the Cardinals taught Kyler Murray and how the Cardinals put film in front of Kyler Murray and just what his learning style was like

because he thought that Caleb Williams had a similar sort of wiring maybe to Kyler Murray. That to me is already a signal that this staff is going to be better equipped to put this guy in the right position and understand which buttons they need to press to get him to learn and digest information in the way that they need him to. So that part of it was not surprising to me based on what I had heard. I'm already encouraged by what this new group is doing to potentially overcome that issue in year two with Caleb Williams in the building. I'm encouraged by the new, I think we both love the new coaching staff.

And then also just the fact that, again, Caleb seems very excited to work with this group. Whereas I think what's interesting when you watched him last year is he was very clearly trying. trying to be a pro quarterback. And what I mean by that is like how much they were, he was trying to handle protections and get in and out of the right plays and really play from the pocket in a way that he didn't always do at USC. I think you could tell that he was trying to be something different and a little bit more professional and more mature.

But again, going back to the point of he wasn't being led along that path the right way by the previous coaching staff, it just never looked like he was doing the right thing in the right way. Like he was, he had these ideas of what it was supposed to be like to play pro, quarterback, but nobody around him was actually like properly telling him how to do it. And hopefully we get that out of Ben Johnson. It's a great way to put it. I think he wanted to do the right things and wants to go about it the right way, but no one

was helping him or showing him how to do that. And part of that was my issue with the way that they built the quarterback room last year. They also didn't have a veteran backup there. It was Tyson, Bajent and Shane Waldron. And so I think that having just a better infrastructure overall in that building with Ben Johnson, with the way that they've set up the staff, I. I just hope that some of those issues no longer are important.

Case Keenham is there now, which I think is something, again, they should have done last year. But all of the sins of the spring of 2024, I'm hoping they're absolved. I'm hoping that this all looks funny in retrospect when it all starts to work this year. You know, I'm withholding judgment. And I'm going to wait to see it. But that is my hope is that six months from now, none of this shit matters anymore. And that, all of that is the vestige of a previous era of this. franchise. Yeah, I think we, Bears fans are not. I'll just want more young, good quarterbacks in

the NFL. And so if we can get one more and just say that 2024 was a wasted year and that was it, then I think we all be happier for it. It sure was. But I think we all knew that coming in and we all sure as hell know it now. All right, let's get to it. We're buying or selling off seasons for the playoff hopefuls. That is what we are calling this group of teams. To be clear again, we are dividing this by Vegas win-loss totals. This is not even how we see the teams. We are bucketing this by what the over-unders look like for these teams. So if you think that your team is a contender,

but they're not in the contender bucket, take it up with the people at the win or whoever make the odds, because it is not my choice. Just want to put that out there before we even get started. Let's start with the Pittsburgh Steelers. Coaching changes, none of significance, acquisitions and extensions, a big trade for DK McHaff,

a second round pick, four years, $132 million. $60 million guaranteed. It's quick note on that. He's fourth in AAV among receivers, but ninth in guarantees. So there's a little bit of funny money in that contract that's worth looking at. Also signed Darius Slay, one year, $10 million. Smaller deals for Malik Harrison, Mason Rudolph, Juan Thornhill, Robert Woods.

Drap picks took Derek Hart, Derek Harmon, 21st overall out of Oregon, warms my heart. Caleb Johnson running back in the third round. Jack Sawyer, the Edge from Ohio State in the fourth round. Losses traded George Pickens to the Cowboys and then lost several of free agents. set themselves up very well for comp picks in 2026. They should have a third, a fourth, and a fifth because of the Dan Moore, Justin Fields, and James Daniels contracts that were handed out. Are you buying or selling the 2025 Pittsburgh Steelers offseason? I think you kind of at this stage have to sell because they don't have a quarterback.

They don't even have a planet quarterback right now. Let's do this. Let's say Rogers signed yesterday before we did this show. It was for one year, $15 million. Are you buying or selling the Steelers offseason? So this is what I was going to say. If it's Rogers, I'm still selling. If they trade for Kirk Cousins, I can get to like neutral.

I was wondering if it was going to go from buyer. It was not going to be by. That was going to be a big gap between those two guys. Yeah, that's a little too much. I still think that it's very likely it's going to be Rogers. So even if Roger signs tomorrow before this show runs, I still feel like we're probably in good shape to say that you're going to sell this thing. Exactly. And I think it probably will be Rogers at, I mean, maybe it's by the time this

airs, maybe it's late July, who knows. But I think it probably will end up being Rogers. But here is my issue with the Rogers thing. I think what we've known about Aaron Rogers for really the past like decade is he is very particular about the kinds of receivers he likes and the quality of receivers that he likes. And I think DK Metcalf is a good player. But some of the stuff that we've talked about with him, sometimes being in the wrong spot with routes, sometimes the way that he'll go up for the ball. He just feels, even if he's a good player, a very not Aaron Rogers type of player. And I think we even saw Rogers last year contend even with that a little bit with Garrett Wilson, who I think is an even better player and a better separator. And even those two kind of had a weird chemistry at points last year.

So I think Rogers, one, was not very good last year. And two is stepping into a Steelers wide receiver room, an overall pass catch room that I don't think is as talented as it was with the Jets, especially over the second half of last season when they had Devante Adams. So I just, I struggle to see why this would work. The argument, of course, is that the Steelers can win 10 games anyway, but I just, I can't get myself excited about it. At this point, it gives a shit. That doesn't matter, exactly. The reason that I'm selling it is that it just feels like they've hand waved another year. Like, we'll wait out, Rogers.

We'll see what happens. I'm just not sure it'll be a meaningful upgrade from what they got last year, even if they're probably conceiving of it as that. So let's just say they sign Rogers. What do you think is the most likely outcome? Because I'm going to play it out for you as how I see it. They sign Rogers. We treat it as this huge upgrade over Russell Wilson in the same way that Russell Wilson

was this huge upgrade over Kenny Pickett. They end up 17th in every offensive efficiency metric. They get to the wild card round. They get stomped out. And then we do this whole. thing again next year? Like, is there a reason based on how Aaron Rogers played last year and based on the other pieces on the offense where all they did was swap out George Pickens for a very expensive

D.K. Metcalfe and not address the other receiver spot for me to believe that it's going to make a meaningful enough difference for this team to be any different in January than it's been over the last couple years? I really don't see why it would be because the other thing about Aaron Rogers is the thing he is best at right now outside of the back shoulder balls. he is still phenomenal at that. He is still a pretty good quick game passer.

The problem is who are the quick game receivers in the Steelers offense? It's kind of just Calvin Austin and that's fine, but if that's your only guy who is going to generate that for you, I just can't. Right, like those guys you're thinking about.

And even then, like, how excited are you really, really getting about that? And so I honestly think the way to sell yourself on the offense is not that the quarterback play is going to be that much better. It's that the offensive line might be a lot better and that the running back play might be better, which that you can actually

kind of maybe get me there on. Like I think Caleb Johnson is a great fit for all of this. I think they're obviously going to get Troy Falunanu back in the lineup. Some of the young guys might take a step. That you can get me there on. The quarterback in the passing game stuff, it's hard. Even the offensive line though, Dan Moore was solid for them last year. Like, you could absolutely see a world where Broderick Jones is worse at left tackle than Dan Moore. Or if they point out of put project Jones are right however that ends up shaking out where fontnup plays but one of their tackles i think has a chance to be worse than dan more last year and fatano we've never really seen play for an extended period of time he's essentially going to be a rookie in a lot of ways this year so i think there's a path

for them absolutely to be better and more dynamic and explosive with that group but i don't think it's a guarantee by any stretch and i still have some concerns about the other past catching spots so i think this is all playing out to a place where 2026 is going to be the important offseason for them they're going to have that extra ammunition. I think that they're going to be motivated to potentially go get a quarterback. And that's fine. I don't think they necessarily had a ton of better options at that position this offseason.

I'm not dumping on them for not doing a better job of upgrading the quarterback spot. But even with what they've done, I just think this feels like we're just kind of hand-waving this year. We're going to get to next year. And that's where we're going to have a chance to make a real push at this thing. And when a lot of your best players are in their mid-30s or in T.J. Watts's case, I think 30 or 31. I just feel like it's hard to get excited about this sort of offseason

and losing another year with guys like that. And especially in the case of like Hayward, even though he continues to play incredibly well for his age, he is getting to the age where he could just retire any year. And then Wai isn't quite at that range yet, but he has hurt all the time. So like realistically. 31 this year.

And realistically, when you're hurt as much as he is, like it's probably closer to like 34 in football years, you know, in terms of the way that, you know, I don't know what the exact calculation is on that, but it's probably something closer to that. Minka Fitzpatrick is a little bit, you know, getting towards older and like, I just,

I'm kind of with you where. He must have come into the league young because I think he's only like 28 years old right now. But he's been in the NFL for a really long time. So this is going to be his age 29 season, Minkin Fitzpatrick, but he has played 106 games. He has 101 career starts.

This is going to be his eighth year. So, I mean, he's almost been in the, NFL for a decade and this is his age 29 season. So a lot of these guys are getting pretty long in the tooth, the difference makers on this roster. And so again, to essentially have another year where you feel like, eh, maybe this won't be our year. Maybe it'll be next year. I think that's a tough one. And you know what's funny? There one like big kind of free agency splash on defense was Darius Slay, who for a corner is on the wrong side of 30. And he was actually like kind of good next last year,

but it's just, you know, a corner that old, you never know. It's really hard. The cliff comes very quickly for guys at that position, especially at that age. And I still don't think they did a lot to shore up the other corner spots. I mean, they got Brandon Eccles. And so I still think the nickel spot is potentially a question for them. So I don't think this is just a quarterback issue. I think that there are still other meaningful holes on the roster beyond some of the concerns that we have about how much of a difference of this quarterback upgrade, quote, unquote,

is ultimately going to make. That's pretty much where I land. Like, even if we want, if you want to make all the fantasy land cases that the offense is going to be a little bit better. I think for them to be a serious team that also requires the defense to play at a top five level. And it just feels like there's a little bit too much fickleness on that side of the roster for that to be the case. The last time we saw the defense, do you remember what happened to them? They got hammered. Yes. Because they were all like, there was like a mutiny field by the Ravens. There was a mutiny at the end of the year. It's important to remember that and not just make this a

quarterback issue as we talk about the Steelers and we project them moving forward. Let's get to our next one here, the Minnesota Vikings. No notable coaching changes and active offseason with players, though. Signed Will Fries, five years, $88 million, brought Byron Murphy back on the same cornerback contract that everyone got this offseason. Jonathan Allen, three years, 51 million. Javon Hargrave, two years, 30 million, with $19 million guaranteed. Ryan Kelly, two years, $18 million at Center.

attacked another year on to Andrew Van Ginkle's deal, so he'll be back, retained Aaron Jones, traded for Jordan Mason. I forgot about that one. Thank you, Beller. And then acquired Sam Howell to be the backup for J.J. McCarthy. Draft picks, they didn't have many of them. Donovan Jackson, in the first round, 24th overall,

they drafted wide receiver Ty Felton speedster in the third round, lost Sam Darnold, Cam Bynum, Cam Robinson, and Pat Jones. I forget the Cam Robinson thing, obviously they traded for him midseason when Christian Dair saw got hurt. Are you buying or some? the 2025 Minnesota Vikings offseason. I am buying it because the issues that I had with Minnesota coming into last season

and also at the very end of last season was the interior of both of their lines was just not good enough. And I know that some of the numbers for their defense actually look fine in terms of how the interior played, but it's just when you watch them against certain teams, they were getting moved around. It's because Flores was just throwing shit at the wall

and he's good at doing that. And the footout pass rush too, right? I mean, it's not just the run game. I think that when they didn't have to when they weren't conjuring black magic on that side of the ball and there's a way to get a pass rush, it was a little bit difficult for them. When they're not just like slinging Ivan Pace over the wall

and throwing him at the other team. Yeah. And so that's, I'm very glad that they went and upgraded both of those sides of the trenches, especially on the offense. And this is the reason I think the offense, the offense needed it for two reasons. One,

they could not run the ball when they wanted to for pretty much the back half of last year. They did it a little bit early in the season, but the back half, they really struggled. And so I think bringing in Fries, Kelly, and then drafting Donovan Jackson, you're probably getting upgrades at all three of those spots, or at least two you would hope. It's a lot of beef. And the other reason I love that is you're inserting what is effectively going to be a rookie quarterback. And now you have a center who's done this for a very long time and a guy who's going to be able to handle some of the protections and understand all that stuff.

So I just, they clearly knew what the issues with this roster were and why they didn't have enough punch at the end of last year. they went out and solved it and they did stuff to really help this rookie quarterback along. So I just, it's hard for me to take much issue with what they did. I think I'm buying it and my interest in it and my appreciation for it is rooted in the offensive line moves. You know, we've talked about this a lot. The issues they've had, not just in the back half of last year, this is a multi-year problem with them not being able to run the ball on their terms.

And I think them finally realizing that and saying, you know what, we're not dancing around this anymore. We're going to take a sledgehammer to this thing and make sure that we're fixing these issues. And they spent to do it, but I appreciate what they're trying to do and what it could potentially open up for the offense. You can make a really serious case that this is the best single environment for a quarterback in the NFL right now with those upgrades along the interior of the offensive line and Darisaw coming back. Because the only real case against that over the last couple of years has been the interior. And if Jackson is even like in the middle of his possible outcomes,

Fries comes back from injury well and Ryan Kelly has a little bit left in the tank. I think you could absolutely make an argument that this is now the best single set up for a quarterback in the entire league. I think it is. Even if I wasn't in love with the Jackson pick, but if he is quality-wise, and they're slightly different players, but if he is quality-wise as good as Brendel was last year and then the other two veterans are who we think that they are, this is a massive win. They're going to be a significantly better offensive line, both in the run game and pass protection. yeah, you look on paper, I wouldn't fault any quarterback for wanting to play here instead of

wherever they are currently. Yeah, and you could make, I mean, there are other people in the running here, like the Eagles obviously have a great supporting cast player-wise, but you got Kevin Petillo as a first-year offensive coordinator. We're going to do an entire set of shows about this, so we don't need to step on it. But I think you can make a really serious argument. This is the best one. So that's why I'm on board, because I think that how they identified their issues on offense

and the way they went about solving them, I appreciate that. And I think that's the best possible path for this team to reach. it's ceiling. I will say this, though. I sort of have some questions about how they've spent some of the other resources this offseason, okay? Those are really healthy deals for Javon Hargrave and Jonathan Allen. Very healthy deals, both of whom were released this offseason by their teams. And they can get out of both of them after the year. It's $17 million in dead money for Jonathan Allen. I think my main concern is that you're kind of having to thread the needle a little

bit here when you're bringing in 30, 31-year-old players based on where this team is right now. Because I think their best shot is actually in 2026, not in 2025, because you have a first year starting quarterback. And even if the guy is good, I think it's really hard to get over the top in those situations. So spending on these guys who are a little bit older and now potentially needing them more next year than you do this year, I just wonder how that's ultimately going to shake out. This is a regime that for the most part has done very well in free agency. But I think part of the reason they've done very well is they've chased guys that are younger and going into their second contracts.

Your Grenards, people like that, Byron Murphy. This is a different strategy. And I think it's a strategy that's usually best served teams. It's like a finishing stroke. That's the last thing they need. And I just wonder if it's a little bit early for this roster as constructed to be making those sorts of moves. So you like that they attacked it. Would you have wanted them to have been, I don't know, the Tershawne Wharton team or something

like that where you're buying a second contract? Potentially, yes. And I will say that in this group of free agents, we've talked about this a ton, there weren't a lot of those guys available. And I don't even necessarily know if I'm criticizing the defensive line spending. So if you look at the guys available, I think part of me thinks should they have maybe spread out some of those investments? rather than chasing a hardgrave, do you go give yourself one more corner or safety,

which is a position group overall that they didn't really do a lot to address? They've gotten by without doing that over the last couple years. I think they're really banking on Mackay Blackman coming back at corner, et cetera. But I think the hardgrave one to me is like, did we need to do this? Was that money better spent elsewhere potentially as somebody, again, coming off of an injury and he's going to be in his age 32 season? So I'm fine with it overall, the overall plan. I am. I'm buying it, but I just have a couple questions about some of the individual settings. I think that's fair, because I do think the issue now looking at the Russia that I still have is the secondary.

Yeah, it gives me, it gives me the, some concerns, man. Like Harrison Smith is, is pretty old. Josh Mattelis is really going to supposedly be potentially going into a full-time role at safety with Cam Bynum out, who Bynum had done a really good job in the way that this defense was constructed. He got paid a shitload of money this offseason and we didn't really blink at it. We didn't because he, he was a guy who, coming out of college, played corner, and then just they put him at safety.

And he just, he's so smart, he's so physical. He was a perfect fit for what they were doing. They're just banking a lot on Smith not losing a step and Mackay Blackman coming back from injury. And then guys like Isaiah Rogers potentially being their second outside corner who I think Rogers for a majority of his career has been fine if he has to play. But now they're signing him to play week one, which is it's just a different dynamic. And yet the expectations are different. So I will say if this goes wrong for them, it's probably.

a secondary issue, but I think they're just betting that the front is going to be so much better that it can kind of make up for it. I think that's a fair way of characterizing it based on how many good players they now have up there and you'll see what Dallas Turner is in year two. I just feel like we maybe could have spread out some of the defensive investments and giving yourself a little bit of insurance a couple of those spots in ways they didn't. But I think the way that they attacked the offensive line and the way that they attacked those issues and how they set up to solve some of their previous problems. That's why I'm ultimately buying it. All right, we're going to take our first quick break, and then we're going to get back with a few more by ourselves.

Next one here are the Cincinnati Bengals. Major coaching change, Al Golden, in for Luana Rumo as the defensive coordinator, spent the last three seasons at Notre Dame and was the Bengals linebackers coach back in 2020 and 2021. Acquisitions and Extensions and Jamar Chase and T. Higgins for a lot of money. We know all about that. Retained BJ Hill three years, $33 million, $11 million dollars guaranteed. Brought back Mike Gisicki on a three-year deal. Only six and a half million dollars guaranteed on that one. T.J. Slayton, two years, 14 million, five million guaranteed, and then smaller deals for Joseph O'Sai and Oren Burks. Drap picks, Shamar Stewart, Edd from Texas A&M, 17th overall in the first round. Demetrius Knight, linebacker in the second round. Dylan Fairchild,

guard from Georgia in the third round, and then Barrett Carter, linebacker in the fourth round. Lost Alex Kappa, Sheldon Rankin's, Akie from Davis Gaither in free agency. Are you buying or selling? be Cincinnati Bengals 2025 off season. They're the hardest one for me to have like a definitive answer on because I think I don't necessarily disagree with a lot of the things that they did. Like spending a majority of their higher picks on defensive players, totally get it. You needed another pass rusher. You wanted to replace guys at linebacker.

They spent some other picks elsewhere. And then using one of your other picks on the offensive line and getting a guy like Fairchild who I think we both like totally get all of. that. And I also understand them moving on from Anirumo, even if I liked him and getting what is, in theory, going to be a little bit of a simpler defense, a guy who works with more young players because he's more of a college coach. I understand all of that. I just don't know if I feel like this team is any better. And that's the part that I, that's where I struggle to find like a real answer. I'm selling it. Yeah. It's for that reason. When I just, I look at it, I'm like, okay,

I get the story they're trying to tell about the L Golden move, but they're hoping this is really like a cure-all along with the guys they drafted on that side of the ball. Their free agent acquisition this offseason on defense was T.J. Slayton. That's it. And then Orrin Berks. Those are the moves that they made in free agency this off-season.

So now you're making a huge bet. The secondary was untouched from what it was last year. You're getting deck-so-back from injury. And they were benching guys. And so you're getting Dax Hill back from injury. We'll acknowledge that. So hopefully, you know, he was playing well a corner after the move before we got hurt. So hopefully that unit is better with him coming back.

But again, he's coming back from injury. Other than that, you're making a huge bet on Al Golden and this new staff as the group to unlock McKinley Jackson and Chris Jenkins and Miles Murphy and DJ Turner and all of these guys. Maybe that happens. But I'm just not sure that that's the magic fairy dust that's really going to change everything on that side of the ball. Can I, here's, here's the other thing that actually makes me kind of sell the Al Golden thing a little bit.

He was their linebackers coach in 2020 and 2021. So this is not even like a, we're going out of the building. We're trying to find new ideas, all of that stuff. They just went and brought back a guy who was previously on the staff. Like I just, it's not as exciting to me. He was a college coach. And so he can develop the young players. I think that's the mindset.

Where with Lou, it was he wanted the veterans because, as he was putting a ton on their plates mentally. Again, I think there's some gymnastics necessary to justify this set of decisions, but I think that's how they're trying to do it. The other part of this, and I think this is very specific, but to me points out some of my frustrations with this team. And I understand that there are financial realities to this stuff, but that doesn't mean that those financial realities aren't putting you at a disadvantage.

Go look at the contract structures for Jamar Chase and T. Higgins. Go look at them. combined against the cap this year, those two players are going to be making about $50 million. That's about what they were going to be making before they signed the extensions. You look at every other major wide receiver extension over the last three or four years, and you look at the year one cap number and how that plays into the broader AAV. C.D. Lamb, who is on a contract that is in the same area code as Jamar Chase's, made $8 million against the cap in year one.

Jamar will be at $25 million. That's a starter. And the same thing could happen with T. Higgins. This team just doesn't pull the levers that other teams do. And I think it's always going to put you at a disadvantage. I'm not asking them to do anything crazy. This isn't like a ton of void years or any of that other stuff where you're all like so much cash over cap that you can't survive as an organization run like the Bengals are. These are layups to be taken.

This is just modern NFL contract structures. You shouldn't be in a situation cap-wise like they are after paying those two guys where you're not giving yourself any sort of relief. They're going to be 16th right now in cash spending after handing out those two massive extensions because they didn't do anything else with the money, even though they were going to save some against the cap if they just organize this stuff in a modern way. And I know that's just how they do business, but I don't have to like it.

I don't there is no if you're a bangles fan they'll probably be fine they'll probably be fine they'll probably be good they'll probably have one of the best three or four offenses in the league they'll be exciting they'll be fun they'll be a team we love watching but in your heart of hearts if you're a bangles fan you know that they're not doing everything they can to push this thing over the top and maybe they can't but at the same time i think part of me would die a little bit inside watching that offense knowing we were maximizing our opportunities to get the most out of that quarterback and those two guys. It's incredibly frustrating.

I just, I don't understand how when you have a top five quarterback, one of the best receiver duos in the NFL, that you are not constantly leveraging yourself to do as much as you can to be the best team that you can be on both sides of the ball and use your money correctly. Like, I just, if they had done the T. Higgins saying the way that you're saying, they could have fix the defense a little bit. And if all we've talked about with this team is they just have to be. That's all I'm asking for.

Two guys. All they have to be is the 18th best defense in the league. And they had the, in theory, if they had done the things that you're talking about with the wide receiver contract, they could have probably made the moves to get there. And now they're not going to get there because that's just not the way they operate. And we can all say, oh, the Bengals have always operated this way. So it's fine. And that's okay for compartmentalizing it and understanding it.

It doesn't make it good business. It's still a bad thing to operate the way that they're operating. It doesn't mean I have to buy it in the broader environment. No other teams are operating this way. And those are the teams that you're competing against. You have to beat the bills. You have to beat the Eagles. You have to beat all these teams who are willing to do this sort of stuff.

And I just think if you're not doing that, you're putting yourself in a position, not necessarily to fail, but not to maximize the opportunity that's in front of you. And I think that's why it's true. just really, really hard to be fully bought in on this team when they're just not pushing the buttons that pretty much everyone else in the league is pushing. Yes, the mechanisms in which they are getting there are going to be very different, obviously, but I just, I'm scared that we're going to live in a world where the Joe Burrow Bengals are a little bit too similar to like the early 2010s Saints teams where it's just the constant

seven and nines and they're like the most electric offensive football and it just doesn't matter because the rest of it sucks. Yeah, that's a good comparison. And those were the worst defenses in the NFL, those several Saints teams. That's how you get to 7 and 9 with a team scoring like 30 points a game. Even if this is like a diet version of that, though, and you're going 10 and 7,

but you're losing in the wild card round, that still doesn't make it any better. Like, that's still not a better outcome than what those Saints teams had to endure. That's the thing, 10 and 7 every year isn't good enough when Lamar Jackson is next door. Like, it's just, that's not good enough. Let's get to our next one here.

The Tampa Bay Buccaneer. Josh Grisard promoted to offensive coordinator after Liam Cohen left town. I think he was the passing game coordinator last year. Acquisitions and extensions brought back Chris Godwin, three years, $66 million, $44 guaranteed. Hassan Reddick, one year $14 million. Brought back Ben Bredison on a nice contract, rewarded him for a bounce back season and he won at left guard. Brought back Levante David one year $9 million.

Draft picks, Ameca Abuka, 19th overall receiver in the first round. Benjamin Morrison, corner out of Notre Dame in the second round, Jacob Parrish, cornerback out of Kansas State in the third round, David Walker, edge rusher out of central Arkansas in the fourth round. Bellin right to schools in here. This is all me, by the way. Just rattling this shit off. I'm ready to go.

Lost Robert Hainesi and Joe Tryon Shainka in Free Agency. Are you buying or selling the 2025 bucks off season? So they did not do anything I thought they would do or wanted them to do this offseason. However, despite that, I'm kind of buying it. And I'll start with the Igbuka pick

because that's obviously, I think the biggest thing they did. I love this framing because I think I'm just sort of in a similar vein. They're just, it had a weird off season. Like the Igbuga thing, I think it captures all of it.

I don't think anybody thought that they were going to go after a wide receiver in the first round or go sign a big one, whatever. But then you think about it and it's like, okay, there's a good case that at Buku was probably the best player available on the board. That's a decent draft strategy almost no matter what. He is also Godwins and Mike Evans insurance in the case that either of them get hurt. They're both a little bit older.

Godwin has a history of getting hurt. He was hurt last year. It's also good future planning. Evans is a free agent after this year. Exactly. It's good future planning because Evans might be gone next year. This is also, I think, a good way to potentially stave off some regression that might come with losing Liam Cohen. and just the natural regression that can happen sometimes with offenses.

They were pretty healthy on the offensive line last year, all that stuff. So I think it was just a good way to, this was the best part of our team. Let's just try to keep it going. So I actually like that. And then defensively, I really wanted them to be more aggressive with the pass rush. Pretty much all they did was sign Hassan Reddick, who didn't play football last year, really. And then they went and drafted a bunch of corners. But then I thought about it.

And I was like, you know what? I kind of like Yaya Diabi. if Reddick is at least 80% of what he has been before, then that's probably enough. And I really like Benjamin Morrison and Jacob Parrish. So it's like at the end of the day, even though they did none of the things I thought they were going to do or wanted them to do, I kind of like it all.

I had a really hard time with this. I think I'm selling it, and it's for this reason. They deserve the benefit of the doubt. They've done such a good job over the last three or four years retooling this roster in the post-Bradie era. And I think the corner moves and the Big Buka move are perfect examples of this. You look at the way that they spent on Corner and then you look at the multi-year outlook at corner.

Jamel Dean is really expensive heading into next year. That's been an up and down experience after that extension. So now you're giving yourself depth for this year and I think competition for this year. I wouldn't be surprised we saw a lot of those guys. But the multi-year plan at that position, you potentially lock up that spot for three, four years if this stuff hits. It's great. I have no issue with that whatsoever.

similar to me, like, what they've done with the offensive line over the last couple years, where it's just been consistent additions, consistent retooling, and they've really solved that group. And they've done that a lot over various different position groups over the last three or four years. I think they've done a very good job. So the draft, I think, is really representative of that. And I think it's a good team. I think that they have a real opportunity to make some noise in the NFC as constructed,

even with the offensive coordinator movement. I think promoting from within and trying to roll with that, continuity makes perfect sense to me. Here's why I'm selling it. I just think we might get to January, and our conclusion might be, I just wish they'd done a little bit more on defense. I just wish they'd shown a little bit more urgency on defense. And maybe Chris Braswell hits in year two, and we're not worried about it.

But off ball linebacker is another spot where it felt like they could have used somebody. And maybe that happens. Maybe at some point this summer or early into the season or mid, middle of the year, they're like, yeah, we're close, we're good, let's go get one more piece and kind of put this thing over the top. But right now, even if I love most of the things that they've done, and I think they're consistent with how this organization operates, they're never scrambling. I really like that about them. They're never scrambling. And I think that's really the sign of a good organization and a good front office. I just wonder if that calm and that very measured approach that

they've been taking a lot was a little bit too calm and a little bit too measured. And they're going to be paying for it a tiny bit when we get to the most important games of the year. I think, I do think that that's fair. And maybe I just, maybe I was struggling with, with, uh, being that harsh about it because I just don't quite conceive of the bucks as a Super Bowl contender anyway. And so them, I think just doing what they can to make the defense. But if they're not now, when are they going to be? I think it's just hard for me to get there when Baker Mayfield is the quarterback.

And I think he's a fine quarterback. I don't want to say that Baker mayfield is secretly bad or anything. It's just I think if he's going to be your quarterback, your roster has to be like kind of perfect to be a Super Bowl contender. And I do think to your point, they probably could have been more aggressive on defense. Not addressing linebacker at all was shocking to me because at least with the pass rush, they did address it even if it was not as aggressive or as, you know, the players I would have wanted to go. But them doing nothing at linebacker was was kind of shocking to me. And that like to your point might embody the fact that we might get to January and be like, ah, the deep. Defense is a little bit better and a little bit faster,

but they just don't have enough to actually win these games. In their defense, and I think it's important to acknowledge this whenever we're talking about, oh, this team should have done this at this position. It was a horrendous offseason for linebacker acquisitions. They all went back. Horendous. Every single free agent that was worth signing went back to his team. I'm curious, if you had to list off the top free agent linebackers in AAV this offseason,

who do you think they are and what do you think the numbers are? they were all hanging around like 10, 11 million. Those are the guys that went back. Yeah. In terms of guys that didn't Spillane did not go back, that's one. Jack Sanborn did not go back. He wasn't even a starter, so that's not really a good one. The fact that I'm already digging that deep.

Oh, I'm sorry. I was doing inside linebacker, not off ball linebacker. Oh, okay, okay. Okay, even with that, Spillane was number one. Spillane got $11 million a year from the Patriot. rates and then Dre Greenlaw got 10 and a half from the Broncos. After that, it was $7 million a year. It was Divine Diablo and Cody Barton were the best off ball free agent linebackers

available according to the market. And then you might not even start. No, he's 7 million years, two years, 14 million for Diablo. And we've talked about the offball linebackers in the draft. So I think you have to acknowledge that when you think about, oh, well, you know, if they drafted both those corners, could they have drafted a linebacker? it's probably in their best long-term interest to have taken the players they thought were best at a position that very quickly can become a position of need for them.

And maybe that means I shouldn't be selling it. I should just be acknowledging the realities of the off-season. It's just hard for me to ignore that inkling I have in the back of my head where I'm just a little bit worried we're going to get to the end of the season and wish they had more at some of those spots. I think that's fair. The middle of their defense does still give me, like those linebacker spots, David wasn't bad last year, but you know that he's getting a little bit older.

And I do think there's just going to be a point where the linebackers are really going to hurt them at the end of the season. I will say the only like hopium angle for that is they are in theory getting Antoine Winfield back for the entire season next year. And he'll be healthier. So that helps a little bit. But even that, it's, I don't know if that's enough to fix everything. Yeah. I think this is the way I would wrap this up. I think I'm selling it, but it's not a criticism.

I have no issues with what they did. I still think that overall what they were and what they are now at the end of it, it's just hard for me to be overly excited about it. I think that's a good encapsulation of how cruel the NFL is, though. Like, they didn't really do a lot of stuff wrong. It's just like, it's hard to be really, really good, man. It's hard. And maybe them not doing anything splashy or flashy is there's a lack of imagination in how

I'm seeing it and I'm probably not giving them enough credit. That's certainly possible. But I just can't ignore how I'm feeling about it right. now. Let's get to the next one here. Green Bay Packers. Fired their defensive line coach, hired to Marcus Covington as their new defensive line coach in year two of a new defensive regime. Signed Aaron Banks and Nate Hobbs in Free Agency. Those were their two big moves. Aaron Banks, four years, 77 million, but only 27 of that is guaranteed, which I think is important to point out. At Hobbs, same sort of deal,

$16 million dollars guaranteed on a 12 million dollar a year AIV contract. Draft picks. Matthew Golden, 23rd overall at receiver Anthony Belton, offensive tackle in the second. around 54th overall, wide receiver Savian Williams in the third round, 87th overall, a deal I still don't understand, or a move I still don't understand, and then Baron Sorrell, edge rusher from Texas in the fourth round, 124th overall. Are you buying or selling the Green Bay Packers offseason? I'm going to fully admit that this might just be like residual effect of me just liking the coach and quarterback anyway, but I think I am buying it because I think some of the issues that

had with the offense last year are kind of solved by what they, not necessarily solved, but in theory solved by what they've done in the off season by drafting Matthew Golden, who I think is a much better one-on-one winner than anyone they have on the roster right now. And then theoretically fixing the interior of the offensive line where Banks is going to play left guard, Jenkins is probably playing center, and then Morgan will come back healthier and play right guard. We joked on a different podcast that like who knows what they're actually going to do with their starting five. But in theory, that's the best one. And I do think that makes the interior of the offensive line a lot better.

So I think if the offense can, instead of some weeks being the fifth best offense and some weeks being the 15th by just the way that sometimes it can be volatile, if they can consistently be the seventh or eighth best offense in the league because of some of the stuff that they've done and then the defense mostly holds its level, I think I can get there. I will say on defense, the thing I do buy is them swapping out the defensive line coach. I think last year we saw that they just weren't getting enough out of those young guys and then making a change there does inspire some degree of confidence in me. Yeah, I think the one area they didn't address personnel-wise this offseason, the fact that it

really didn't do much on the defensive front outside of drafting Baron Sorrell in the fourth round, I get, if you're Brian Guncoo, it's sitting there and being like, we can't do anything else. We can't draft more. We can't draft more guys. We've drafted four guys in the first round. I know Kenny Clark was like 20 years ago, but they've drafted a lot of guys in the first round along that front. And then you have two of those guys now on market extensions. There's been a ton of investment in that group. And I think trying to do what you can to get

the most out of those players is a totally reasonable approach to that position group specifically. The other position groups that they hit, I support it. I understand what they're trying to do. I think Matthew Golden and his skill set and what they were lacking with that group last year is important, especially in a world where you don't have Christian Watson. Christian Watson is a limited player, but this is an offense that struggle to be explosive without Christian Watson. So I think this takes you in a new direction with the skills you're adding to the offense. And if Watson doesn't come back this year, you have an – or at least deep into the year, you have an explosive element that you're adding to this thing. That I support.

Offensive line, I'm right where you are. I think going out and getting banks, it's a deal they can get out of. I think it's pretty rich. But, again, there's a lot of funny money in there. You get better two positions by moving Jenkins over. Hopefully you get Morgan back. That sounds great. Nate Hobbs, second contract player, he has versatility.

We can do all these different things. I get the position groups they invested in. I just worry a little bit about how these plans are supposed to come together. And we've made a lot of comparisons on this show between the bills and the Packers and how the overall the solid approach by the front office and the broad strokes by the front office have been good. They just haven't netted out a lot of needle movers at other positions outside of like quarterback. And I think another similarity between these two front offices and having spent time

talking to people in them is that there isn't enough attention paid to how all the pieces are supposed to fit together. There's a lot of theoretical thinking. And I think the Packers' Offensive line and the Packers secondary here remind me a little bit of the thinking with the Bill's past catchers over the last couple years, where it's like, oh, we're going to add all these flexible pieces and look at all the stuff that we're going to be able to do. And it doesn't really matter if we don't exactly understand how it's all supposed to fit. We'll get there. And that is the coaching staff's job.

I just worry if that broadstrokes vision and the implementation of that vision, every once in a while, there's a little bit too much lost in translation for them to maximize the players that they have brought into the building. That's my like lingering concern here. So I think that's, I do think that that's fair. With the offense, I don't have that concern though. I don't think I've ever watched a Matt Lafleur offense and thought. he wasn't making sense of the pieces that he has.

So that side of wine more than the past catchers to me. Yeah, but even that still, I have some degree of faith that he's just going to get the right five out there, which again, what five is that going to be? God knows. But I do have faith that he'll find the right five. The secondary is where I still don't know how that's supposed to come together. Here's my point about the offensive line. It's that, oh, we're going to draft, we're going to sign Aaron Banks.

We're going to move to El Jenkins's center. El Jenkins is already pissed off about this. He's already like sitting out practices and already upset about it. his contract. So again, that's something that on the outside, I think makes sense. And then you think about what it looks like in practice. And it's like, well, there's a little bit more friction here than you might have anticipated based on how you're moving around these pieces on a magnetic board on a depth chart. You know what I'm saying? So I'm with you and that I think I have more faith in the offense figuring that out. I still think the defense, there are some questions here.

This is nitpicky, though. Again, I think that the positions they've addressed and the way that they've addressed them. I'm typically on board with and mostly on board with. I am buying it. Those are just some of my like overall lingering concerns about what it may look like when it's all supposed to come together. I do think that's fair. Like I won't be surprised if by the end of the year there, again, a 10 win team, maybe 11 win team, but we still feel going into the into January where we're like, this still feels a little up and down and weird and like the pieces don't fit right. I I wouldn't be surprised if we still end up there. I have enough faith in the offense, but we'll see.

I would be very interested to see what the Golden Edition does and how quickly he can be a good, useful player and a differentiator. I guess that's the word I would use. How quickly he can be a differentiator for what the offense feels like compared to the last couple of years. And there is absolutely a chance where the offensive line is just a significantly better unit because of some of those smaller, quieter upgrades. And maybe there's a world where Anthony Belton beats out Rashid Walker's the left tackle.

and they get better at that spot. They've given themselves those sorts of avenues. And I appreciate that. This is an organization that always does that. And I think it traditionally sets them up well. Let's get to our next one here. The Denver Broncos. No major changes on the coaching staff.

They lost Declan Doyle's their tight ends coach. He's now the Bears offensive coordinator, but obviously that's not a huge one. Brought back DJ Jones, three years, 39,000, 26 guaranteed. Teleno Hufonga, three years, 39,000, 20 guaranteed. Drake Greenlaw, three years 31,0.13 and a half guaranteed. Evan Ingram two years, 23,0.16.5. Guarantee Barron, 20th overall cornerback out of Texas.

RJ Harvey running back in the second round. Pat Bryant, wide receiver in the third round. And then age Savion Jones in the third round, 101st overall. They lost Cody Barton in free agency. Are you buying or selling the 2025 Broncos offseason? I'm buying it. And they- Hard buy.

Yeah, they scare me. Well, that's why they scare me is like, I feel like we're all in agreement that we're all buying it. And so, again, I feel like there's something I've got to be missing here. But then even when I combed over it again before doing the show, I was like, I don't know. I like a lot of this. Because for as good as the offense was last year, you know, getting more at a Knicks than we thought. An offensive line being awesome and Sutton reviving. They still struggled a little bit to feel explosive and fast at times. And Marvin Mims gave

that to them a little bit, but that was where they were lacking. Well, they went out and signed Evan Ingram, who all he wants to do as a tight end is run fast and play in space. And then they drafted RJ Harvey who between the tackles, who knows. But once he gets out in space, he is one of, he is an incredibly dynamic player. So they very clearly sought out explosive ability on that side of the ball. And then on the other side of the ball, they just went to get ass kickers. And I absolutely love that. So I just, there were, there weren't many things that I had like an issue with in what they

did this off season. They did everything we wanted them to do. Yes. Every single thing he wanted to do. But the start of the off season, when we're talking about, all right, what are the team needs for the Broncos. Ask kickers in the spine, a pass-catching space-oriented tight end and a dynamic running back are the boxes that we want to check. They've checked every single one of those boxes. So it's just hard not to buy it. Let's do this. I think that there has been a universal celebration

of the Broncos offseason. If we're trying to play devil's advocate, I would do it in a couple different areas. One, the guys they signed, those ass kickers, they've paid the price physically for the ass kicking. Yes. They are as liable to getting their own asses kicked by themselves as they are for kicking other people's asses. The Green Law and Hufango, we got a couple of crash test dummies back there. And I think that they've paid the price for the way that they approach the game.

So if those guys get hurt, and you could say that about anybody, but their injury history, I think, with both of them, I think is worth pointing out. Green Law, it's a big fluke injury, but it's a fluke injury that he's not that far removed from. He didn't really play last year. and then Hufanga has consistently had injury issues. So I think that's worth pointing out. The only other thing I would say is I think that some offensive line insurance somewhere might have been nice.

They were relatively healthy along the offensive line last year. They missed eight total starts between, I think it was Wattonberg and McGlenshy, both missed four games during the regular season. That's not nothing, but they were relatively healthy with that group. And that offensive line is a huge strength of who they are. are. Wattenberg is going to be a free agent after this year. And so them just kind of bringing back Matt Pert as their swing tackle and that really being the only thing they did with that group, maybe a little bit more to fortify that and protect yourself against some downside cases.

But again, we're really midpicking there. Like those are my, even my devil's advocate cases aren't that strong for what they could have done a little bit differently this offseason. Yeah, I mostly agree with the defensive stuff, even though it's risky some of those signings, those are still signings that I would have made like 10 times out of 10. We're trying to win fucking Super Bowls here, man. Like I'm okay like making some risky bets in those moments. In that division, you kind of have to. Like you're not going to be a good enough team if you're not taking risks

the way that they did with their defensive signings. And then the offensive line one though, I do agree because they were like you said, a pretty healthy unit last year. And it was it was the best part of their offense. Like they did a lot well schematically and had some decent skill players. But the best part of the offense was that they had like a, top five offensive line last year. It would have been nice to throw a little bit of insurance there in case

McGlinchy misses six or a guard misses five. Like something like that would have been nice. But again, even with that, I have faith that Sean Payton is good enough that even with a couple of injuries, that they'll still be able to stay afloat pretty consistently. They did last year. I mean, we didn't really notice that those guys were hurt for those small stretches. I also think doubling down on a strength with Barron, I like that. Again, you're not resting on your laurels.

It's like, oh, the defense is fine. We don't need to worry about that. I think trying to improve in meaningful ways at some of those position groups, that's a worthwhile chase. And I've said this, I love RJ Harvey. Like, RJ Harvey to be is a very fun player. And if you were not going to get Tray Van Henderson in the second round, that's the guy I wanted them to go get.

And that's exactly what they did. So I'm excited about this team. You know, I'm sure it'll go wrong in ways we're not anticipating yet. But when it comes to the offseason approach, I'm smashing the buy button on this one in ways that I'm not with many of the others. Yeah, I just checked everybody. It was really good. All right, we're going to take one more quick break,

and then we're going to get back with our last two teams. The Houston Texans, notable coaching changes, hired Nick Cayley, formerly of the Rams as their offensive coordinator after moving on from Bobby Sloick, which is a tough decision, I assume that I think was necessary. Acquisitions and extensions gave Derek Stingley a monster, three-year, $90 million extension with $89 million guaranteed, extended Jaylon Petrie, making him one of the higher paid nickels in the league.

Traded for Christian Kirk and Truncy Gardner Johnson, also Ed Ingram, but obviously Kirk and Gardner Johnson are the more significant investments there. The Kirk Kenyon Green trade, I love that for the Texans. I think that's a really, really smart move based on what the Eagles like to chase and what the Texans probably need within their defense. Signed Cam Robinson to a one year $12 million deal that's actually split over two years. They've done that with a couple guys. They've done with Kirk as well. And smaller deals from Mario Edwards, Nick Neiman, Sheldon Rankins, Justin Watson.

Notable draft picks. They did not pick in the second round. they actually traded down out of it. So Jaden Higgins and Arrote Ersery in the second round, Jalen Knoll, wide receiver in the third round, and then cornerback Jalen Smith in the third round. Losses traded Laramie Tunsell to the Washington football franchise, and Steph Diggs moved on to hit free agency.

Are you buying or selling the 2025 Houston Texans offseason? I think I'm buying it, but I have one huge complaint, which is that I just... So here's the thing with the offensive line. I think they made the right decision to scrap it. They were terrible last year. Like, even with Laramie Tunsel, like they were one of the worst units in the league.

Whoa, whoa, what? What do you mean? Scrap it. They didn't scrap it. Well, they scrapped parts of it. They scrapped parts of it. They let the left tackle go. They let some of the guards go.

But here, this is what I'm getting to. The guys that they are now putting into play guard are backups for them last year. And all of the guys that they signed are like, Ed Ingram, Lakin Tomlinson. These are not moves that inspire me. So like as an idea. Those guys, those two guys that you just said, the replacements for those teams were the highest paid guard and free agency and a guard that was drafted 18th overall in the

first round. That is the urgency that those teams had to replace those players. So that's what I'm saying. I don't mind that Houston went and saw it like, okay, we have to get new starters on our offensive line. The problem is they gave away the best one. and then all the competition for the other spots are not good. And so it's one of those things where like, okay, you had the right idea here.

And then the execution of it to me was disastrous. And I say that that's my big complaint because I like a lot of the other stuff they did. And we'll get to that in a minute. But that's like my big hang up with their offseason is I just, the particular individual specific moves they made on the offensive line, not good enough for me. This one for me again, let's just throw out like memes from, 2016 because I'm deeply a millennial.

I'm not up with the internet conversation. The guy's sweating, trying to figure out which button he's pressing, that was me with this team right now. Because I think for every good thing they did, there was a bad thing to follow it. And so it's hard to know where I come out at the end of the process. But I think I'm ultimately selling it, and it's because of the offensive line stuff.

I like Nick Cayley. I'm excited about Nick Cayley. I think seeking out that offensive system, that was worth it. I cannot wait to watch what this group looks like with that sort of offensive. framework. The Christian Kirk thing, probably a little bit aggressive to bring on that contract, but they split it up. He's $11 million in dead money next year. It's a decent amount to pay, whatever. And you didn't know you were going to get two receivers in the draft because you don't

know how the draft is going to go. I don't love Jaden Higgins as a player. I'm willing to acknowledge that I could be wrong about that. He has the prototypical size and explosiveness and all that to potentially be a good player. So I'm open to a lot of moves they made. I think that if you're swing to improve this offensive line is trading away your best offensive lineman. You've galaxy brained yourself. And drafting a second round tackle who we all know is a project. Yes. And I get the culture problems or whatever and that he wanted another contract.

Fine. But I think trading away a, he had a bad year last year. He's still your best lineman. And I think you're trying to blame some of the other offensive line issues on the coaching staff because you didn't really replace those guys in any meaningful way, but you're not going to blame that on the best guy. Like the best guy somehow is the one that landed up on the chopping block. I don't understand that.

It's like trading him. They were trying to make a point to the rest of the room, which is like... Maybe. And maybe that was the case. But I don't have to like that. Exactly. That's where I come down. Like, I don't have to like that they did that.

Because now that they don't have him in the building, I don't know if they have a single guy who is even... We know for sure is at least an average starter in the NFL. Well, maybe you could make the case for Howard. Like, I think at his best, he has probably been that. Other than that, you're hoping for a lot out of all of these guys. There is absolutely a timeline and a path where the offensive line is significantly better because of the offensive ecosystem and infrastructure.

That could have been the case with Laramie Tunsell still at left tackle. Those two things didn't have to exist in contrast to one another. This is exactly what we said about, like, the Gino Smith with the Seahawks and how they went about it. It's the same dynamic here. It's the same exact thing. I think part of my other issue here, and you could make a similar argument

with the Seahawks and D.K., right? Like, they trade DK away, and I think I supported that and the chance to, like, build him in the aggregate and use those resources. I think that Laramie Tunsell and left tackles of his caliber are really, really hard to rebuild in the aggregate.

Like, they're just so hard to find that I'm worried about going about it this way, where it's like, oh, well, we got a second round pick in 2026 is part of this. And with some of this extra draft capital, we drafted one in the second round. And we were able to move and we'll be able to move some of the money around. This goes back to like an old Bill Simmonsism about NBA trades. It's like getting the poo poo platter back for like the best player in the trade. I think that's basketball thinking.

But for left tackles, I think you should apply basketball thinking. Yes, you absolutely can't because teams. So with receiver, you can create stuff in the aggregate guy by moving guys. around and having all these specific role players, yada, yada, yada. When teams try to do that on the offensive line, look at Washington last year, they did it last year and then immediately went into this offseason and said, don't want to do that shit again. Don't like that life.

Yep, not fun. And so like, that's the thing is with left tackle and offensive line in general, it's just hard to recreate stuff like that. It's that old tweet about like, you don't want to be out here. Like you think you want to be single. You don't want to be out here. That's the Washington realized they did not want to be out here. And unfortunately, I think the Texans may come to the same conclusion.

There's a chance ursery hits. We've had some second round tackles develop into good players, you know, at times over the last 10 years. But the history at that position in the second round, it's a tough one. I mean, other than receiver, or excuse me, other than quarterback, that is the spot where for the most part, your best players are coming from the first round. You can also throw edge rush in there, too, a little bit. But I think tackles a little bit more pronounced when you look at the history of the position. And even if he does hit, it's unlikely that it would be this year, which obviously, you know, when we talk about 2026, 2027, that's all fine. But for this year, it probably just doesn't help you very much. And when you're a team like the Texans who is already winning the division and kind of needs to amp stuff up, you probably do want players that can kind of help you right now, especially at the offensive line when you have a very young and good quarterback. I'd want to make sure where I'm acknowledging that I did like a lot of the other stuff that they did. I think the tone of this is a little bit negative. but I just think that's because I'm really weighing and feeling the risk of this sort of move

and what the downside of it is. Other than that, I really like a lot of this stuff. I really like J.L. Noel. Again, I'm willing to acknowledge that maybe Higgins is better than the NFL thought Higgins was better than I think some of us did. And so that happens a lot where for whatever reason, like the football, the draft cognizente looks at a guy and it's just like, I'm not as excited. about him. I think a lot of people like Noel better than Higgins. The league clearly did not. And I'm willing to acknowledge when we might have some blind spots in those situations.

So I think the positions they hit, I love the Gardner Johnson trade. I think them fortifying the secondary and then drafting another corner in the third round to give them some depth there. I like that. And so I do like a good majority of what they did. I just hope that we get to a place in, I'm trying to think of the best possible example, right? Like, let's say Joey Bosa has a really good year and you're playing the bills in the divisional round and Joey Bosa's just eaten up Arante Ursary and he has two and a half sacks and you're sitting there being like man I really wish that we had Laramette Me Tunsel right now. That's not like some far off far-fetched story to tell. That might be the most likely outcome for this team is that

like this is probably a playoff team again and then they might end up again where the tackle play is just not good enough when they need it. The thing I do want to say, because again, this has sounded very doom and gloom for a team that I still expect to win double digit games. I love all of the stuff they did on defense and not not even just the particular players, right? Like the Gardner Johnson thing is great. But it's that what a group of psychos back there by the way. So that was the thing.

It's like they have the most psychotic secondary like Stingley will tackle now. Lasseter is a psychopath. Bullock will come up and hit. Obviously Petrie is a madman. And now you add the ultimate madman in Gardner Johnson. So they've really turned up the notch from like 11 to 4. which is just, God bless them.

But I love that they were already an elite defense, right? But they're trying to save off regression by getting all of these good depth pieces. You go out and you sign E.J. Speed, who was a starting caliber linebacker, and he's now potentially on the bench for you, signing Daryl Taylor off the edge.

You go and sign Sheldon Rankins to come play defensive tackle for you. You can get Ronald Darby, who's going to be on the bench for you at corner. Like, they were just like, if somebody goes down, we need a competent body here. And that's just, it's just smart team building.

Yeah, I like it. And again, I do like a lot of the stuff that they did. I just worried that the offensive line moves were cut off your nose to bite your face sort of situation. And we'll see if that ultimately plays out. Last one here, the Los Angeles Chargers, no notable coaching changes, acquisitions and extensions. Brought back Khalil Mack one year 18 million, retained Elijah Molden, three years, $18.5 million, $13 million guaranteed. Mackay Beckton, signed a play guard, two years, $20 million, $7 million guaranteed. Dante Jackson, two years, 13, million seven guaranteed.

Smaller deals for Bradley Bozeman, Naji Harris, tight ear tart, Tyler Conklin, Benjamin Singh, juiced Deshawn Hand. Notable draft picks, a Marion Hampton in the first round of running back, Trey Harris, wide receiver in the second round out of Ole Miss, Jamari Caldwell out of Oregon, third round 86 overall at defensive tackle. Lost Joey Bosa, Christian Fulton, Josh Palmer, and Puna Ford in free agency. Are you buying or selling the 2025 Chargers offseason?

I think I'm actually selling it. And I still think they're going to be a good team because they have good coaching staff. The quarterback is fantastic. I do like that they went and got Hampton. I think the offensive line will be a little bit better. But I just, I thought they could have. And I wanted them to be a little bit more aggressive, especially on defense. And they just weren't either in free agency or in the draft.

What would you have liked them to have done that they didn't do? I wanted more bodies in the secondary, for sure. Like whether like so some of the corners that were on the market weren't necessarily fits for them because they play a lot of zone coverage and do a lot of the cover six type stuff. So like Carlton Davis probably doesn't make sense for you. Traverius Ward probably doesn't make sense. But like someone like Paulson Adibo would have made sense. If they wanted to go a little bit smaller, DJ Reed could have made a lot of sense. At safety, if they wanted to upgrade from like Gilman, Justin Reed would have been awesome in this defense.

Like just something like that. One more dynamic piece in the secondary when you have a lot of young guys back there. And also just a lot of guys who are hurt a lot. Like Cam Hart, I think, is a promising young player. He missed a lot of time last year and some of it with concussions. So I just a little bit more competition in the secondary would have inspired me. I struggled with this one. Because there's part of me that feels the same way where you look at a team that made the playoffs last year.

And then you look at the level of urgency and aggressiveness in the offseason. You're like, oh, man. Like, are they really that much better than they were last year? I think that's a fair way to feel. I'm buying it though And here's why I think this is the approach Of a team

And a front office that knows what they really are They are closer to the beginning than the end They really are They are far closer to a team that is rebuilding Than a team that is competing And so why are we going to throw a lot of money around And free agency On players that are free agents for a reason

The corners you just listed off This is a perfect example. Are you going to be a real contender as the Chargers in 2025? Probably not. Carlton Davis is going to be 30 soon. Most of the other corners are third contract players. Third contract corners is a dangerous place to live when you're seeking out building blocks because that's what they're still doing.

They're still trying to find the building blocks of the roster. And so the guy that's a second contract corner in that range was Paul Sidadipo. Paul Sinadipo, that's a lot of money for Paul Sinadipo. Like I still have some questions about. how that's going to play out. He got paid that because he's young. And free agency, especially this free agency period, is not a place to find building block players. It's just not. So them essentially punting on it and using free agency as a way to volume shoot, where it's like two interior players, two more corners, two more bodies here, a couple of bodies on the interior

of the offensive line, I'm fine with that. Because I still think they're much further away than a playoff appearance last year would lead you to believe. And I think this measured approach and this realistic approach is an indication of that in a way that actually feels kind of refreshing. I don't even think I disagree with that. It's just because they were, I think you have to make the case. That's the thing. I don't have to like it.

Because especially on the front, they're replacing Puna Ford, who was awesome last year, with a third round pick in Chamari Caldwell, who I think is a nice player. but you're asking a lot of him. And then you're replacing Joey Bosa, who I know didn't play a lot and he wasn't even that good when he was healthy. But the only thing they really did in the edge room was at a fourth round pick.

So you're probably not going to get that much better there. The only thing that I'll say that. But you need to get that much better. That's where I'm at here. They need to get more explosive. Is improvement in 2025? Is that what really matters? Probably not.

Like, it probably is right that they need to just be looking for building blocks and making sure they're not getting in front of themselves. But I just, I think, it's more likely given what they did on the defense, given they did very little on the defense, that they're just a worst defense next year. Because they didn't add enough. But who did they really lose?

Not a whole lot, but I just, it's mostly Puna Ford. And Bosa. But that's the thing is, Robosa was hurt again. And but we've talked about some of these units that didn't really add a whole lot, you're kind of inviting regression because you're just, there's nothing new here. And I do like the coaching staff and I like some of the players. It's just it feels like you're inviting, regression when you don't really change a whole lot. Again, this feels like the approach of a team that's like we need to draft good players to eventually win. That is how this is going to go.

And this pool of free agents, they're not building block players. And they weren't worth overpaying because we still need building block players. And that may be a frustrating experience for Chargers fans who watched their team make the playoffs last year. And the idea of inviting that regression and a small step back in some of these areas, that'd be tough to stomach as a fan. But again, I think it's just so removed from how we typically see these surprise playoff teams operate. Think about, and this is obviously a product of the Chargers having a quarterback on a veteran extension,

and these teams having quarterbacks on rookie contracts. Think about the approach of the 2024 and 2024 Texans and 2025 Washington franchise compared to what the Chargers have done this off season. It's night and day. It's drastically different. And I think as a fan, I could understand why that would be frustrating. I could understand why that would piss you off because just like, we've made the playoffs last year. Now we're going to do nothing to get better. But I think there's a little bit of a false signal there when teams make the playoffs in that way in a surprising way in year one about what you actually are over the next two to three years.

This is a team that when you look at the actual foundation of it is still extremely. young. Like the tackles, Vlad McConkey, the building blocks of this team are still extremely young. And I still think this is closer to stage two than stage 10 of the process for them specifically. And that's why I'm okay with that.

I think that's you're convincing me a little bit. You can say you hate it. I do but you're convincing me a little bit that it probably is. Stand your ground. You do not like this. I don't. Like it's just your quarterback is Justin Herbert, man. Like you could go

win games. The only thing I will say that I do like that they did and I think could solve a lot of their issues, the Chargers offense, first of all, was not as bad as we think it was last year, but they did have one humongous issue. They had the fourth highest three and out rate last year. They would just be drives where they were dead on arrival and that was that. If they didn't get three and outed, they usually scored somehow, but they three and outed a lot. The fact they fixed the offensive line a little bit and got Hampton I like. It's just again, I think the offense will probably only be marginally better with some of the stuff they did, because you're basically betting that Trey Harris is going to be at least as good as Palmer was last year.

And Palmer's not like some sensational player, but you're making that bet and you're making the bet that like Mackay Beckton isn't a one-year wonder. And you're thinking that some of the competition at center is going to be great. But all they did was sign Andre James, who the Raiders were perfectly fine, let it go. I just, none of what they did really inspires me that they're going to be better. And them not being better might still mean they're a 9-10 win wildcard. team, but I just, I want more for them. That's all. I also want more for them. I just don't know how much more was ever going to be coming this year. And if you were going to have that quick spike

this year, and they have a lot of cap space next year, so maybe they could have done it. But I think if you were trying to have more in 2025, were you going to rob yourself of potentially having more in 2026 and 2027, when this team is actually going to be positioned to really make some real noise in a way that I just still don't think that they are? I think that's fair. I, just, I don't necessarily hate that they are being measured. I guess I'm just think that this is a little bit too measured when you, I think, have a pretty good foundation already and a quarterback that is always, the floor is always going to be high when that guy is there.

You don't have to worry as much about that, I think. All right. That is all we've got for today. Sincerely appreciate you guys. Listen, and again, this will be running, I believe, on Tuesdays, the episode that we're banking in advance. We're going to be doing a few of those. from when I'm on vacation.

So by the time you listen to this, I will likely be in the air. But I will still be on your guys' feet over the next couple of weeks. Derek is going to help shoulder some of the load, which I sincerely appreciate. But the show is not going away. You're going to get plenty of athletic football show here over the next couple weeks, even with me gone. For now, that's all we got. I sincerely appreciate you guys listening.

We'll talk to you very soon.