The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Offseason Interview Series: Chargers head coach Brandon Staley

Episode Date: June 25, 2021

Robert Mays continues the Offseason Interview Series with Chargers new head coach Brandon Staley. Staley discusses what has surprised him the most about his new role, the importance of conceptualization vs. memorization and the biggest influences on his defensive scheme. They also talk about how Staley is imprinting his values on the offense, his relationship with Justin Herbert and much more.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays. Very excited about today's show. It's the next installment in our off-season interview series. A man, we talk about a lot on the show, but have never talked to on the show. Chargers head coach, Brandon Staley. Coach, how you doing?

Doing well, Robert. Thanks for having me. I sincerely appreciate you doing this. Really appreciate you taking the time. We actually talked a lot about your defense and those ideas and the principles on last week's show because we're doing kind of a defensive trend show. So the timing of this actually worked out very well. I want to kind of take a step back, though, and just talk about the initial few months you've

been on the job because you spent one year as a coordinator, but you've been in the league for several years. I'm sure you have ideas of what being a head coach will look like. I'm sure in practice it looks a little bit different. So which part of the job would you say so far has been the most surprising? Just an aspect that was not like how you imagined. I think that probably the big aspect is just scheduling. I think the amount of schedules that you're responsible for, not only just, I mean, I'm talking like practice, but just all your meeting schedules, all the sports performance part of the job.

And then, you know, just long term, like the long term schedules of training camp, you know, into the regular season. Hey, a normal week Sunday to Sunday, Sunday to Saturday, Sunday to Thursday, quick turnaround. So just I think the scheduling part and being out in front of things. that way. I think it's been, you know, you know that you're getting into it, but you also know that like the long-term aspect of the job is, is an important one and one that you have to spend a lot of time on. And so I've enjoyed it, but it's, it's probably been, I think, the most, you know, new to me in terms of the role. The scheduling, the sports performance, all of those kind of the bits of minutia, is there anything that you want to be drastically different

than the places you've been? You can feel comfortable sharing what you want, but just an aspect of how you wanted to go about your week that you're you feel like you're trying something new? I think the one aspect that I've learned since being in the NFL is that you're dealing with players that have played the game a lot longer. You know, like Limbaal Joseph, he's 33 years old. Chris Harris, 32. And then you're also dealing with rookies who are, you know, 21, 22 years old. So you're dealing with people that have played the game, kind of in much different spaces in time. And so you can't manage those people the same way. And so what I've learned since coming in the NFL and really before I even got the NFL,

it was just studying a lot of the other, you know, major sports leagues. And I've really, you know, dove into like the Premier League, you know, European soccer because I think their schedule is really unique,

interesting, bringing players from all over the world. The age thing is like similar there, where you've got these young phenoms with some veterans. And so I've just tried to study as much as I can to be out in front of that, where we can really use data with our sports performance team to make really informed decisions on our players, on an individual basis and then inform our players of why we're doing what we're doing

so that, you know, they're fully invested in our plan and knowing that, you know, we have to, you know, always stay frosty because things change a lot. You know, it's a dynamic sport. Things are always changing. And so I think that that's a part of the job that I've enjoyed, teaming up with our people here who have helped me a lot. But at the same time, teaming up with our players, you know, so that they're feeling like every time they go out there, they're one step closer to being the player they're capable of being. And I've seen you say this before that you feel like you really don't need to have the gas pedal on the floor all the time with these guys in terms of hours spent.

It's more about using those hours efficiently. And last year, you put in the NFL's best defense over Zoom as a coordinator with no offseason, everything else. So kind of that working smart, not hard. I'm wondering, what about that process? and communicating ideas to players and getting those ideas from your head into theirs, what tricks did you learn last year when you had to do it virtually? Are there aspects of communication that you feel like you got better at over the last year because of that?

For sure, Robert, I think this is an important topic, one that we take really seriously, but our teaching progression, we feel like when you install something that you need to do it in a sequence where a player is building on something that he has a foundation that he's always building on. And where he's not memorizing things, he's conceptualizing things. And so I think the more you ask someone to memorize, that volume, right, really starts to take shape. And then you have, you know, diminishing returns. We really think that if you're a conceptual teacher and you do things in a way that makes sense to your players, then you can build a lot quicker. And that's just a teacher and me being a son of a teacher and a coach.

But I think that before we got to the Zoom world last year, what I kind of knew was before we get started with this thing, we're all going to be like on a computer screen. I needed to individually connect with these guys before we got going. Because they're not going to be listening to somebody over computer screen if they don't believe in them. So, you know, kind of going to the individual route first and then giving them a preview of what was going to be happening and really giving them a preview of, hey, this is our plan for you.

This is our plan for our defense. This is why. So that you just create a little bit more of an investment beforehand. And then when we got actually to the Zoom world, just really being a, intentional about how we built things. I think so often now, you know, you get to the highest level in football and you're so quick to get to the scheme. We really wanted to build a foundation how we wanted to play, killing blocks, tackling takeaways, situational masters.

We really wanted to lay that foundation first, put our money where our mouth is. Like, hey, guys, this scheme isn't going to save you, you know, from tackling these great runners, you know? This game could be great, but we still got to be a fundamental team. We got to kill blocks. We got to tackle. We got to take the ball away. and then all this scheme will come alive. And so we tried to do that the best we could.

And then when we got to the scheme, we wanted to do so and really, you know, install it intentionally, do it in a really specific sequence where we felt like, hey, at the end of this, our guys are really going to have a framework that they know and that they can take the training camp where we can get this thing running right away because we knew that there wasn't going to be a lot of time.

You're having to defend Sean McVeigh right away, you know, practice one, one of the best, you know, offensive coaches in the league. So we knew that we had to have that defense up and running. And, you know, we wouldn't have been able to do it without remarkable assistant coaches. And I think that that's the other layer in that pandemic, Zoom world, it was just like the communication between us, coaches before we even hit the players, making sure we were connected, making sure we were speaking the same language, because pro players can sense if you're not connected.

They know so quickly, they're so intuitive. We need to make sure that we were really airtight with our communication, knowing that we would have to stay flexible and all that. But I felt like our assistant coaches were fantastic last year. And you know many of them, E.J. Everro, Aubrey, Aubrey, Pleasant, Eric Henderson, Joe Barry, Chris Shula, Thad Bogartis, John Cooley, those guys, those guys are superstars. We did it as a team. And then obviously those players, they deserve most of the credit.

What would you say is the main distinction between memorization and conceptualization? How would you distinguish between those two things? I just think that if you give a concept, some type of arbitrary meaning that doesn't relate to anything where they can't associate a world, then it just, I think that over time, you know, they're going to forget. I think that you can make your coverages make sense. Your fronts make sense. Your, you know, your pressure packages make sense. If you can kind of group them into worlds where, hey, hey, I know that when I'm in this world, I can, I need to apply. these set of tools, right?

Whereas if they just have like these independent meanings and they don't connect to anything, then a guy may may lose track of it. So what we try to do is build things intentionally that way. So our guys can always lean on the concept that they're in and the world that they're living in so that they can go apply their techniques and their tools. What's an example of one of those kinds of world, like one of the buckets? Yeah, just I think from like just from a coverage standpoint, like splits, safety coverages for us are even number coverages because that's how many

safeties are going to be in the deep part of the field, right? Odd number coverages for us are single safety coverages because those, there's going to be one safety in the, in the middle of the field at the end of the down. So just little things like that. And, you know, I think that you'd be surprised how that can help a guy. And then just the types of rotation that you have, weak rotation, strong rotation, how you, how you, you know,

sort of specify that within those coverages, that can help a player play better. And I think that we do a good job of that. I think that's why we can play the amount of coverages that we play is because it's not difficult for our players from a conceptual standpoint and the way we teach it, the way we organize it. And then more importantly, how we rep it. You know, we put them through the paces. If you're going to play a lot of stuff, you've got to put guys through the paces so they

can execute their job under pressure. So a lot of people have written about, I've written about it, I've talked to you about it, about how your defense is well-tuned for the modern NFL. And it's bringing a lot of new ideas to the forefront, all of that. But I think everyone knows what's old is new again in the NFL. So if you had to kind of distill the most important influences that inform what we'll call your scheme the way you want to play, what would you say those are? Yeah, I would say up front, you know, we want to play a lot of different fronts up front. We want to be multiple up front where what people have to block is not the same every snap. And then what allows us to do that is the different personnel groupings that we play, which allows us to play multiple fronts.

And then after you talk about what people have to block, then you're talking about what coverages they have to see. And so we want them to have to identify a lot of stuff to block up front. And then we want them to have to identify a lot of stuff in the back end, especially after the snap, you know. And we always want those guys having to work each and every snap in terms of from an identification standpoint. And I think that that's where the modern NFL is headed. You know, if you look, I mean, you see some recent videos like, you know, just like an NFL network or something of a playoff game in 1995, the way that game was played in 1995, which is, hey, man, I was, you know, freshman in high school, you know, or, you know, eighth grade or something like that.

You're watching Steve Young out there. You know, it was a pro slot, you know, real simple one-back, you know, sort of world in 11 grouping. And now, you know, you're seeing, I mean, the reverse. You're seeing three receivers on the field most of the time. You're seeing motion all over the place. You're seeing, you know, quarterbacks in the shotgun almost exclusively where that was kind of just, you know, part of the equation back then. It was starting to happen.

And so the game is, the game is, is, it's changed quite a bit. And I think that you have to change with it. And I think, certainly from a defensive standpoint, we try to keep those same principles that will never, ever lead defensive football, but also stay current with what you're having to defend each and every week. What served as the inspiration for that, those ideas of being tricky post snap and just having a lot of complexity to the way that you look? How did you kind of build on that? Where did you build on those ideas from? Where did you first identify those? Well, I think that from the quarterback position, if you start with the premise that the quarterback is the most important player on the field who you have to defend at the end of the day, okay, the Tom Brady's, okay, the, you know, the Patrick Mahomes, the Russell Wilson's, all these great players, Josh Allen that, you know, is coming out of here. And then just in the history of the game and all the great quarterbacks that you're aware of, Troy Aikman, Steve Young, Joe Montana, you know, you just start with that. Like that, those are the players that are, are the key to the game, well, then you got to make that position work, you know. And if pre-snap, those guys have a really good idea of what's happening, then it's going to be a tough day for you, you know? It's just, to me, it's going to be a tough day for you. And I feel like you have to start with the premise of making that guy work after the snap. Because pre-snap, those guys are so,

they're so intuitive. They have just such an inventory of experiences to draw from. What you've got to try and do is you've got to try and challenge them after the snap and just try and, you know, slow them down account, buy some time for, you know, your operation to work. And you got to do it over and over again because it's so challenging against those elite players at that position. So we kind of start with that premise and, you know, kind of work from there. It's funny because the last show we did, we talked a lot about how teams are playing more quarters on first down. You guys have done a lot of it. The rams, or excuse me, the Niners have done a decent amount of it.

I'm going to use this opportunity to kind of go straight to the source. What do you think is the motivation behind that? Why do you think that transition to more two high safeties and more quarters coverage on first down has happened? I think that you know where the offensive football is headed towards from a design standpoint that, you know, a lot of the early down stuff, play action keeper run game is designed to attack single safety, you know, that there's that movement, you know, kind of in the 2010 to now like that 10 year window where that was the lead coverage being played,

you know, middle of field closed. And so you saw basically every offense in the NFL with all this designer stuff to attack those coverage systems, whether it was single safety zone or single safety man. And so I think you're just seeing, you know, sort of a movement to defend those plays that are difficult to defend against single safety. So, you know, that's that's, that's, part of the chess match in football. I don't think it's new, you know, in the 80s. You know, I mean, when you go back to what was happening then with the West Coast offense and how that

sort of expressed itself to the NFL and what people did to stop it, to defend it, I think it's, it's similar. You just see these different waves happening and this one is just the latest one. And, you know, I think that that's probably the biggest reason. So you and I have talked about this in the past, just the idea of creating layers in coverage and overlap in your past coverage. And I was hoping you could explain that a little bit more to the listeners. What you're trying to accomplish with the ways that you deploy your resources in coverage. Well, I think if you start with the premise, you don't want people on islands very much defensively because the more people that are on islands, if you lose a matchup, that that play can go a long way.

So we just try to, you know, operate from like two-on-ones, you know, in the passing game so that you eliminate those one-on-one matchups that people are going to try and exploit, and then one-on-ones in the run game. Okay, it's the opposite in the run game. You're trying to get as many one-on-ones at the point of attack as possible because that's going to create overlap in the first level, and then in your second and third level, you get the two-on-ones in the passing game. And so what we're always trying to get is, you know, the way we do things on defense is we all

have the ball. We all have the ball. And so it's not just, hey, man, I got my job and this is where I'm playing. Like, that's not how we do things. You know, we operate where, hey, we're all going to finish on the ball no matter what position we play. And so that's where the overlap, you know, concept, you know, that we really emphasize comes to play. And that's where from a fundamental standpoint, it comes back to kill blocks, tackle, takeaway, is that fundamental premise allows that, you know, concept to really ignite when you're getting guys.

finishing on the football, taking on blocks, defeating a blocker. Everybody knows, you know, they're leveraging from a tackling standpoint, from a run, you know, fit standpoint, from a past fit standpoint. And then when you have vision, right, on the formation, when you have vision on the ball, you have population, then your chances for takeaways increase. It felt like when you, watching you guys at times last year, the Seattle game, I think late in the year especially. I mean, there were certain plays that looked like the entire secondary had the same brain,

the way that they were moving in concert with one. one another. I'm wondering, how do you guys hone and work on communication between the secondary, where those guys are just one single unit kind of moving as one piece? We meet a lot together. And that's the, that's the biggest reason for it is so that everyone's hearing it the same way. We want that synergy within our communication systems. And so our back seven, we meet a lot together. And so we want that those guys that are, you know, responsible in a coverage system to know how to work together and know how to play off one another because things aren't nice and neat all the time, you know, you want them to be. But we really teach our guys how

to play together and play off each other. And we really want to create that connection in the back seven so that we can see a formation. We can see a route concept start to express itself. And our guys know how to play it together. And they know how to, you know, work together to increase our chances to be successful. And we do it the same way in the past rush front and the run front. But mainly in the back seven, we meet together a lot. And then in the front, we meet a lot together. You know, our inside guys and our edge players meet a lot together to create that same

connection to organize our run fronts and then our pass rush plan. Do you guys spend a lot of time on maybe the half second or second right after the ball was snapped, just the way that routes start to develop and what sort of information needs to travel in that exact moment? moment. Yeah, you got to be a team that's good at defending anything, you've got to see a lot of stuff. You know, we're not one of these people or organizations or defensive operations that say, see a little, see a lot. You know, look, we don't, we don't believe in that at all. We want our guys to see a lot. We ask them to see a lot because there's a lot of information that you can

gain. And so we really believe in that full field vision, that wide field vision, a panoramic view, because that's how you're able to play more plays, is that I might be on the left side of the formation, but there could be something on the right side that could tell me a really big story and how to play. And so we ask our guys to see a lot. They're responsible for a lot. And then, you know, when we, you know,

kind of how we organize things from a practice standpoint, from a walk-through standpoint, is we get our guys a lot of shots at what's happening, you know, so that they can learn and make a lot of mistakes in practice and really we put them through a lot of tough situations and practice put a lot of pressure on them so that they know like, hey, by by the game, we will be ready for this. Like, you will be exposed to what's happening and hopefully you can play it well because

you've been put through it. And we're really big on that. And I'm big on that with our coaching staff is making sure that our practice is organized. So these guys have a have a really good chance to be successful. And you can't keep it. You can't make it easy on these guys in practice. And we talk to our guys about that on the front end. The practice is is going to be, we're preparing.

It's not just practice. We're preparing, we're training to be ready for the game. And we feel like that's going to give us the best chance each and every week to be successful. And you saying that, that there's some information on the other side of the formation that might be useful and being able to see the full field. I'm just imagining John Johnson in my mind, like picking up a crossing route coming from the other direction. And I'm really curious, how do you think the demands on that position specifically have changed over the last few years? because it just feels like the role he played within your defense, and that archetype of player has just risen in prominence and importance

within specific kinds of defenses. I think what's different about the safety position is that that guy needs to be more of a DB now than ever. You know, you don't need that enforcer that you used to have that strong safety type, which really is just a linebacker, you know, a guy that's just playing down in the box And it's like a, you know, just a hammerhead, a guy that's a just a really physical enforcer type run player, blitzer, you know, bringing that physical element because that's not what you're defending. You're defending a lot more spread out stuff, you know, and the runs aren't requiring that type of body type anymore, you know. So I think what's just happened is you just need more of a secondary player where that safety really needs to play like a corner. he's got to have cover traits.

Okay. And you got to start there that like this guy's got to have range in the deep part of the field. Okay. He's got to be able to cover in the slot man to man. And then he's got to be able to play the ball in the deep part of the field. He's got to be able to track it, you know, find the right angle. And then he's a guy that's got to, you know, run the show for you. You know, there's so much happening every snap.

I think that you've got to have guys back there whose brain works, you know, that can process and see. I mean, you know, that's just the reality of the game. And if you can't make adjustments back there on the fly, then you're just, you're going to have a tough time because there is so much happening now before the snap. And so you got to have people back there who can operate. And as you mentioned, you know, JJ is one of those guys that fits that description. And we've, we've had a lot of good ones here. My time in the NFL, I've been fortunate to be around a lot of them. You know, our defensive coordinator, Rinaldo Hill, was a 10-year safety.

NFL, you know, so we got a pretty good guy that's talking to our guys every single day who fits that description too. He was a corner at Michigan State for Nick Saban and then became a safety in the NFL and played a long time. So, and we got a great DB environment with Derek Ansley, former safety at Troy, all-time leader in interceptions there, Tommy Donatell. You know, so we just feel like we got a great secondary environment for our guys and, you know, just feel like that gives us an edge. So Ronaldo played for Nick Sabin in college and then spent the last two years before this year, I think, with Vic Fangio in Denver.

So he's coming from some pretty decent places with some pretty decent ideas, I would have to say. Yeah. And Derek, you know, DA was with Nick, you know, for two different stops at Bama and so and his coached in the NFL as well. So we've got a really, you know, and then Tommy Donatell's dad, Ed, you know, is one of, you know, my mentors, one of, you know, guy who's taught me a lot. And, you know, certainly Tommy was.

with Pete Carroll, one of the best defensive coaches, you know, in NFL history. So we feel like we got a good, good situation with the Chargers. And, you know, I know that I learn a lot from those guys every day. And, you know, in the back, you know, our entire defensive staff is just fantastic. Mike Woj, played for Vic in San Francisco. Was with Dennis Allen and the Saints before this. He's a fantastic up-and-coming coach, Johnny Timu played for us in Chicago, inside linebacker.

And then up front, you know, we got Jay Rogers and Giff Smith, who are just two of the best front coaches I know. So we got a really cool defensive environment. And it's been fun connecting with those guys and creating our way with the Chargers. It's interesting because it feels like there's so many guys of differing backgrounds, so many guys from different sort of systems per se or they just have different experiences. And I'm sure that's important for you because you'll pull an idea from anywhere, it seems like. So having people with fluency in a lot of different types of defense and a lot of different approaches,

Was that important to you as you were putting that staff together? Yeah, I wanted to have guys that had a, like, you know, that had a baseline of, of how we do things. You know, Mike, well, it played in this system. Yeah. I mean, he played seven years in the NFL and six of it were in, you know, Vic's system. And so he's a believer in it.

Like this, you know, he played in it. He lived it. This system made him a lot of money. So, and, and now he can help, you know, these young guys make a lot of money and play their best. So I wanted people that were fully invested. Jay was with us. with us in Chicago. And he's a big reason why we were so successful with our front in Chicago.

You get, you're aware being a Chicago guy, you know, Eddie Goldman and Keem Hicks. I mean, Bilal Nichols, Roy Robertson Harris. I mean, those, you know,

the reason why we were rolling in Chicago is that front. I mean, you put those guys out there. You put, you know, Leonard Floyd and Kille Mac out there, Roquan, Danny,

you know, Trevathan, you got a good shot. And that's not even talking about Eddie Jackson, Kyle Fuller, Prince, you know, Adrian. So,

you know, those guys all have like a, those guys all have like a, had a huge impact on my career. But I think the reason why we've been able to connect so well. And Giff Smith, he really trained Eric Henderson and Chris Shula, who I was with last year, who were so integral in our success with the Rams. So I felt like we had a really, you know, just a really connected staff and the vision.

But at the same time, we had enough variety that would always keep our system current. You know, Tommy coming from Seattle, D.A. coming from Bama, you know, you're able to, you know, really connect and say, okay, we've done this. Okay, now where can we take it with this new group of guys? Because we're going to have to play different because we've got a different group. And that's kind of been the hallmark of where we played is that, you know, year to year, we're going to change based on who we have. And so you need that.

You need those guys that are really sharp. But at the same time that are team guys that we can all connect and push it together. So I want to ask you a little bit about self-scouting in a second. But I wanted to start with just the process of building around your players as you get to the Chargers. So last year when you went to L.A., how much of the plan would you say you had coming in and how much was informed with, okay, this is what Jalen can do, this is what John can do, this is what Aaron can do, this is going to inform the way we want to play? How, like, what ratio is there as you build the plan in its entirety? I think specifically when I went in the interview with Sean, those were the three guys that I felt like we could build around. I felt like those are the three guys that I felt like we could engineer the system around.

And I felt like, you know, AD's versatility, you know, playing inside or outside, any technique that we could really engineer some stuff for him, that we could also get him playing some different techniques that I felt like could benefit our team. I thought it would benefit him, but I felt like it could benefit our team. And Aaron Donald, to me, he had his best year last year. I know that he had more sacks a couple years ago, but I felt like he played his best ball, and I felt like our team defense was a reflection of that. And I thought he was just remarkable last year. I just can't say enough about him.

We could spend a whole podcast talking about Aaron. Just the way that you would use him on third down as like a missile, going across three gaps. It's just the way that you could deploy him to make everyone else better in the pass rush game was just so cool to watch. His brain, just like being able to, you know, you know, to line him up all these different places, he's got to have, you know, the football IQ to be able to do it. And he's got to have that command over all these different techniques

and right side, left side, you know, edge, inside, you know, shade, two eye, three, four, five. I mean, he just, he plays all over and can do it. And so that's why Aaron is, is who he is. And that's why he deserves all the credit in the world for being one of the dominant defensive players to ever, ever, ever play this game. And a big part of his, because of his, of his brain, okay, because this guy is so sharp. I mean, he is like, like a freaking bangle tiger ready in the in the jungle. He's so he's got just this awareness that it's just, um, it's hard to explain. Um, other than I guess everyone watches that unfold, but I'm telling you this guy is just so sharp and I'm so thankful for the guy.

But I felt like we, we start, you know, with Aaron and then you, you know, you knew Jalen. To me, I just, I knew I was aware that Jalen was more than just a corner. Okay. And I felt like a corner, there was still more in him that I felt like, you know, could express itself. I felt like he could play better off, you know, playing a little bit more square to the formation. I felt like he could see a little bit more where he could be a little bit more of a playmaker where if you're always playing bump and your backs to the ball a lot, like, you know, you're just, you're not, you're decreasing the amount of plays that he's going to be able to make, right? And so we wanted to be able to change his fundamentals from that standpoint.

And then when he was playing bump, give him different leverages to take advantage of so he could do what he does best. And then move him into the slot where, hey, he could follow a great. receiver or like, hey, if it's a team that kind of, hey, maybe they're a cut split team and they don't really allow you to play outside bump. Like maybe we can get him closer to the action as a blitzer, as a slot defender, you know, because he's such a instinctive player. He's physical. He's a really good open field tackler. I mean, this guy could go back to safety and he'd be a first team all pro. I mean, especially the way you used your safeties. Yeah, he could be a corner. I mean, and a matter of fact, I used to joke with this guy all the time. And I guess now that I'm, you know,

we're not together. I, you know, I can, I feel like I can say it because we've talked about it. I was like, I like, I like, I like his play style a lot more inside. I was like, I just, I think you're, I think you're more locked in inside, you know, like outside. You just kind of, you got some reps that I don't like, you know, you kind of joke about it. I'm like, when you're in the slot, I'm like, you're always in the stance. You're always locked in. And just his play style is just a little bit more attractive for me. But, yeah, you start with him and doing all that. And then JJ, we just felt like, whether it was playing in the deep part of the field. being an organizer, playing dime money, you know, just felt like, you know, he was our green dot.

He was our signal caller. I just, you know, he led the way for us last year. And, you know, just those three guys are pretty special. And I think with, you know, with Joey and with Derwin, on its face, they're different players. They play different positions than two of the, than Jaywin and Aaron do. So you don't have to tell me specifically how it's going to look. But what is the process of understanding their strengths and using that to filter your filtering your defense through those ideas.

Yeah, you know, I think, you know, you take a look at Joey and Derwin. Those are two great places to start. Those are two first team all pro players. I think that they're unique players. You know, Joey, one of the premier edge players in the league. You know, I know that coaching, you know, Killeel, Vaugh, Bradley, Leonard, those guys, we always watch Joey Bosa, you know, just in terms of his ability to get off, his hands, his bend, his burst to close.

I mean, he had all that. he has all that and now he has a lot more experience, you know, so we're just hoping that we can take advantage of that, you know, certainly working with those other edge guys. I feel like we have a framework of how to use them. But I know that he's going to be going forward in a real playmaking role for us. And then, you know, Durwin's just, he's a unique player. I mean, you know, I think there's like the, you know, the analytics combine. There's been like four DBs in the last 20 years or something to have like this set of combine numbers. And one of them was Ramsey and the other one's Derwin, you know, and when you're with Derwin, you see it. You know, you see, like, if they were

right next to each other, you would say, okay, like those guys, I get it. Like, they, because they look very, very similar, you know, because they're both over, you know, they're really close to 210. I mean, they're, they're bigger guys, 6-1, and then, you know, 4-4, 41-Vert, you know, they've got all that stuff. They're both DBs, okay? Like, they can do anything. And, and that's they play the same position in college. They both played that star spot at Florida State, which is hilarious. You know, Derwin's, you know, Derwin's, just, and he's just a, he's one of these magnetic igniters, the leadership you can't minimize with him. And it's been a lot of fun teaming up with him. And certainly you get a head start with

him, you know, because of him and Jalen being so close. And that's what I think has been cool about is just the best business is referral, right? You know, so, you know, just getting a head start with him through Jalen's been awesome. But I think that those two guys are certainly really good places to start for the Chargers. And, you know, and then, you know, I've, Kenneth, Jerry Tiller, these guys, Nas Adderly, you know, we're trying to take advantage of who we got with the Chargers, you know, we got Vato Davis, a corner, young corner who's really up and coming. And so that's what you got to do, Robert, is you got to go into each situation and you've got to assess, okay, this is how we need to play because we can't copy paste. You can't, you know, like Control V, you can't do that. Like that doesn't exist in the NFL. There will be some things maybe, you know, that are similar. But we can't copy paste. You can't, you know, like control V, you can't do that. Like that doesn't exist in the NFL. But we. We don't. We. We got to take advantage of this group. And that's what it has been really fun, you know, to get started with this springtime, was just laying that foundation with these guys. And, you know, like you got a guy like Chris Harris. I mean, with the Chargers, you know, Straps one of the elite, you know, DBs of the last 10 years and being able to team back up with him. We were in Denver 19 and just like Chris being a quarterback for us. And, you know, using all his experiences, um, to help us out has been, it's been awesome too. So, um, I'm looking forward to it. I want to ask you about the office. offense really quick because one of the things that you've said multiple times that I find super interesting is that you don't want you never wanted to contract out the offense you never wanted to

be a defensive coach who didn't have a hand in that side of the ball which I think is a really smart way to think about it because then you have established principles within the team that don't travel if the offensive coordinator happens to leave it allows you to sustain success so first of all what does that look like in practice how do you is a defensive minded head coach let's call you that to be fair. How do you imprint what your values are onto your offensive approach? Yeah, Robert, I think it's a really good point. And, you know, I've used that term subcontracted because, you know, if you subcontract something, it can be taken from you, you know, and I think that, you know, you never want that. And I think that the great businesses, organizations,

teams, they have an identity, you know, and football just happens. You got to have to have an identity in all three phases of the game. And what I wanted was, um, complementary systems in all three phases of the game. And certainly if you start with our system on defense, okay, because that's, you know, the side of the ball that I've come up under,

you know, how we play. I wanted a system that mirrored that, you know, multiple groupings, being able to play game plan specific, being able to move people around, take advantage of who you have or who you don't have.

And then, you know, certainly feature, you know, your, your quarterback, you know, that to me is like where every offense starts is you got to feature your quarterback.

And so I felt like in looking at that hire, and it's obviously a huge one, as everybody knows, especially with a quarterback like ours and an offensive skill group like ours, you know, I just felt like when you hire Joe Lombardi, a guy that I know extremely well, that offense, that I know extremely well, that's the offense that I came up under, that I learned from a young, age to now and have seen it evolve and shape over, you know, 15 years, I felt like that would fit us best and it would fit Justin Herbert best. And I felt like... Why do you say that? What aspect of his game do you think aligns with that type of offense? Because I've never heard you say that. I'm curious about it. Yeah, I felt like, you know,

putting the game in the hands of the quarterback from an identification standpoint, being able to give him a lot of tools at the line of scrimmage to operate, having a lot of different types of passes, you know, formationally, you know, because you play in a lot of groupings, you can dictate a lot of different formations to the offense, to the defense. And then from a passing game standpoint, you got a lot of passes to defend, you know, against that team. There's a lot of passes, play action passes, keepers, five step, three step, empty screens. I felt like when you think about that, you kind of think about our defense and all the coverages, you've got to play against all the fronts. You got to play against all the pressures.

And so I wanted an offense that could mirror that. And I felt like I wanted our offense to run through Justin Herbert. And I didn't want our offense to run through somebody else, you know, where someone else was kind of responsible for making it work. I wanted him to make it work. And I think that that's what's been fun to, you know, sort of get started. Rather than the quarterback being somebody who pulls the levers that the play caller is telling him to pull, you want Justin to be the one that's pulling all the levers. Correct. And that's a, you know, it's an ongoing process.

This is not going to happen overnight. And I know that he's going into a second year. But I think that ultimately those are the most dangerous quarterbacks that you defend where the quarterback becomes the system, you know, and studying the great players that have played that position. And certainly guys I luck up to from a coaching standpoint, like a Jimmy Johnson, you know, Bill Belichick, a Pete Carroll, you know, Mike Tomlin, you know, John Harbaugh, these guys. And then, you know, Bill Parcells is a guy that I've just.

since I was a little kid just always admired. Their quarterbacks have all played really, really well. And they've had continuity with their head coach, and they've had continuity with their systems. And, you know, and I think that that's something that a defensive coach can provide, and hopefully I can provide it, you know, to our team, not just Justin Herbert, but to our team, is that other side, that extra education that hopefully can, you know,

sort of complete their thinking and help us be the, team that were capable of being. Last one. I'm curious about this because you mentioned Belichick. He and Brady met every week. They had a sit down where they would talk about ideas and like this is what they're trying to do to you. Do you plan on having that sort of consistent communication meeting with Justin where you guys

are going to have some of those back and forth to kind of let him know? From my defensive brain, this is what people are trying to do to defend you. Yeah, we've already started it. So for sure, the answer is yes. And I would say it's the same thing that I did with John Johnson, Ramsey, you know, Michael Kaiser, you know, we have our signal caller meetings throughout the week, you know, defensively last year.

Um, our game plan meetings, you know, before the game, rank them, you know, uh, you know, going into the game plan, you know, from a, you know, just a signal caller meeting. It'll be similar. Um, obviously, um, a little bit different because I mean, Joe and Shane and that group of guys will be, you know, with the actual game plan. But I think that going into the, the week is hopefully, um, you know, linking up with Justin and our guys on offense,

you know, Corey Lindley, our signal callers, and then doing the same thing in defense and then doing the same thing in a kicking game. I think that that's incumbent upon you as a head coach. And I think that's how you create a connected team that is going to go into the week, at least knowing, hey,

this is what our plan is to win, you know? And I think that when you get, you know, whether or not you get it done, least everyone knows what the plan is and then how to adjust the plan if it doesn't go well. So I'm excited. about that part of it. I've really enjoyed that part about being a head coach is being able to

impact all three phases of the game, not just one. And so certainly, you know, we're going to find out a lot more in training camp. Getting to put your quarterback hat back on. Yeah, that's, you know, I miss, you know, I joke with people. You know, guys, you know, offense never left me. I'm a quarterback coaching defense. You know, that's all it is. And, you know, and I think that certainly, if not one of the biggest, you know, probably the biggest reason why I'm here is the way I kind of look at the game and how I try to coach all of our defensive players. And they'll tell you that is I try to get him to see the game to the guys as the quarterback and think like the quarterback because ultimately that's the guy that you've got to beat. All right. We could do this for the next six hours, but I know that you have to go.

So sincerely appreciate you taking the time out to do this. Yeah, well, I really respect the work that you and Nate are doing this. you guys do a great job and you know i'm just a big fan of of spreading the game you know i think you know the more the people learn about the game the more they're going to fall in love with the game i think that's what makes football so amazing and i think that the more access the fans have to the inside part of the game the more they'll want to watch it and and i think that you know there's something that i i've told everybody in the chargers building i told people on my interviews was you know what makes football special or the players and the fans and i think that it's like

podcasts like this, shows like this, that really give that unique access to the fans. And, you know, you guys do a great job. And I appreciate you guys having me on. Well, that's a great night on which to go into the weekend. Thank you very much. Really, really appreciate you saying that. That's very kind. I'm sure we'll talk to you down the road. Brandon Staley, thank you very much. We'll talk to you soon. Thanks, Robert. All right, guys, that was great. I hope you enjoyed that as much as I did. Sincerely appreciate Brandon taking the time out to do that. Really appreciate you guys. listening, please rate and review the podcast on your podcast platform of choice.

I would sincerely appreciate that. Please subscribe to The Athletic, theathletic.com slash football show. Tons of great stuff still coming out during the off season. One other quick note here. If you guys are looking in your Apple podcast feed, you're going to see some subscription stuff that is not a part of our normal feed. It's going to be additional mailbags. We'll have some conversations that don't make it into the feed.

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