The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - On the Clock, picks 13-18: Teams chasing needs, teams chasing dreams

Episode Date: April 8, 2025

We're back On the Clock on this episode of The Athletic Football Show. Ben Solak from ESPN joins Robert Mays to make picks 13 through 18 in the 2025 NFL Draft. That covers first-round picks for the Dolphins, Colts, Falcons, Cardinals, Bengals and Seahawks. The Dolphins and Bengals get some offensive line help! The Falcons take another swing at ending the John Abraham bit! The Seahawks bring in another receiver for Sam Darnold! Come and join the draft fun.Host: Robert MaysCo-Host: Derrik KlassenWith: Ben SolakExecutive Producer: Michael BellerProducer: Michael BellerSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTubeFollow Robert on Bluesky: @robertmays.bsky.socialFollow Derrik on Bluesky: @qbklass.bsky.socialFollow Ben on Bluesky: @benjaminsolak.bsky.socialFollow Robert on X: @robertmaysFollow Derrik on X: @QBKlassFollow Ben on X: @BenjaminSolakTheme song: HauntedWritten by Dylan Slocum, Trevor Dietrich, Ruben Duarte, Kyle McAulay, and Meredith VanWoert / Performed by Spanish Love SongsCourtesy of Pure Noise / By arrangement with Bank Robber Music, LLC Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. Today is our next installment of On the Clock with my friend Ben Solac from ESPN. For those of you who are not familiar with the concept, we broke the first round into five chunks. Picks 1 through 6, 7 through 12. Today is 13 through 18. I give Ben three options. He chooses one of them for this team.

And this is the pick that he would make, not the pick he thinks the team would make. We list off who has been drafted. at the top of the pod. So if you guys want a little bit of context, who's still on the board, you can listen to that when we dig into it. But that is the game. We'll get into that with Ben in a quick second.

First, a tiny bit of housekeeping. One, the Beast is out on Wednesday. 6 a.m. Eastern, Wednesday, April 9th, Danes, Magnum Opus that he does every single year. Hundreds of draft profiles. Just the best product on the market around draft time. That will be available for you guys on Wednesday. same PDF forum that it's always been available in, but also this year we have a very cool new interactive digital version.

Highly encourage you guys to go check that out when it drops on Wednesday. Draft, live draft show like we have done over the last couple of years. We are rolling it out again. Live from Chicago, nights one and two. Night one is going to be me, Dane, Derek, and Bruce Feldman, which we are extremely excited about. We will have times specifics for that as we get a little bit closer. but like we've done each of the last three years, we're going to be coming to you guys live on nights one and two.

The first three rounds of the draft, we will be reacting to every single pick. So please be on the lookout for the details about that show. We will give them to you as we have them. For now, let's get to our conversation with Ben Solac for this installment of On the Clock. Joining us today for the next installment of our On the Clock series here on the Athletic Football Show. it's our buddy from ESPN. Ben Solock. Ben, how you doing, man? I'm well, Robert. How are you doing? How are you doing? How are things going with your draft

world over there? This is your life. Like, this is your, this is your sweet spot. This is where you are most comfortable is this time of year, I feel like. I've officially reached to the point where I watch more players I dislike than more players I like. And that's the, that's the real hard part, right? Where you're just like, all right, I tried to save some guys this year, right? I was like, oh, you know, I've seen enough of this South Carolina defense attack and I'm going to like him. I'm going to like him. to wait and watch him when like I'm really, really a bad way. But you get into the doldrums a little bit. But when you're watching through the doldrums, then you actually find a guy that's a very rewarding feeling. So we're doing okay. We're burning out, but we're burning out at the appropriate base. Is this draft being relatively less exciting than some previous drafts?

Do you feel like that's wearing on you a little bit in the prep process? I think that's happening to some people as I look at this collective enthusiasm that we're all feeling here about 15, 16 days out? It isn't because I think that. this draft is very poor if you have a top five, six pick. After that, I think, I think that the, it's right on the mark, right? For like how good the 43rd overall player is, I think he's about as good as in previous years.

There's certainly been years for like some of the talent, right? I remember the Jonathan Taylor year, whatever that was, 21, I want to say. That year felt like epic 50, pick 55. Like, oh my God, all these guys are amazing. Like, there's some years where it's really talented. But to me, the only real weakness for this class is like, yeah, it kind of sucks for the bluechippers. It's not a great class to have a top five pick.

After that, no, I think it holds its water. picks in the 40s are really good as such a draft guy thing to say. I really appreciate you coming with that today. Dude, the strength of the running. Let's reset a little bit before we get into this version of the exercise. So for people who have not listened to the first two installments of this that we did, the first one with Jordan, the second one with Danny Kelly, we did picks one through six with Jordan,

and we'd pick seven through 12 with DK last week. So what we're doing here is I'm giving you three options per team. Today we're doing picks 13 through pick 18. So that is the Miami Dolphins through the Seattle Seahawks. The 12 picks that have been made previously by the two guys that were on here, just to run through them fast so we know who's off the board. Cam Ward at one to the Titans. Shador Sanders at two to the Browns.

Travis Hunter at three to the Giants. Abdul Carter at four to the New England Patriots. Mason Graham to the Jags at five. Will Johnson to the Raiders at six. Armand Membu to the Jets at seven. a trade up for the Niners with the Panthers from 11 to 8 to get Will Campbell. Ted McMillan to the Saints at 9. Ashton Genti goes to Chicago at 10.

Tyler Warren to the Panthers at 11. Real spicy there from D.K. And then Jalen Walker, the linebacker slash edge from Georgia, goes to the Dallas Cowboys at number 12. Any on there that you feel are just totally out of pocket. You're wondering what the hell Danny is doing? At first one, I saw Jalen Walker to the Cowboys. I was like, what? And then Jalen Walker and Michael Parsons on the same team together is actually.

extremely fun from a like, you know my 11 guys in the huddle, but you don't know where I'm going to put them perspective. You can do some gnarly, nary stuff with those two players together. I love Jalen Walker. I think some of the like four overall of the Patriots talk is rich, but he's a very likable player. How about Jordan Reed getting Will Johnson the Raiders before Jack Jones was even cut? That's a well-sourced man, all right? Look at him go. Even with Jack Johnson still being, are Jack Jones still being on the roster? At this point, Jack Johnson could be a starting corner for the Las Vegas Raiders. given the current state of that room.

So even before the Jack Jones news, I feel like you probably could have popped a corner on there pretty easily. That to me was like one of the most screaming means on any roster in the entire NFL still is coming into this exercise. So the fact that he did that to me was not shocking. I feel like they need to address that pretty early or they're going to be in a bad way on that side of the ball. Very good corner class at the turn, right?

And around one beating a round two. So Raiders, Raiders, look forward. I think that 37 is their second round pick. That's where it's just like, man, there's a lot of guys they could take. They should double dip. They should. One note here as we get into this.

So your three options that I'm giving you, the one you land on, this is what you would do. This is not what you're predicting the team would do. So that's how we get the Will Johnson at six landing spot for Jordan, is that he liked Will Johnson. That's what he would have done in that spot. So I want people to have a little bit of freedom to pick the guys they like, go the directions they like. Don't try to put yourself into Chris Greer's head here. you do this as Ben Solac picking at 13. So just a little bit of context before we get into these.

I would prefer if I made it as Ben Zolak and didn't make it as Chris Greer, being honest. Let's kick this off here with the Miami Dolphins at number 13. Here are your three options if you are picking for the dolphins right now. Option one, with both Will Campbell and Armand Membu off the board, you pick Kelvin Banks as the next possible, as the next best offensive line. And you may think differently about that. We can talk about it. But in this scenario, Kelvin Banks is your choice.

Option two, you picked a Jedi Baron cornerback from Texas. That feels like a need for the dolphins right now. They also have a need at safety, given some of the guys that they've lost. Obviously, they signed FML, PhoneW, in free agency. God, Ashton Davis, don't think either of those guys are preventing them from drafting a safety in the first round if they want to. You have your pick of the safeties. Whichever safety you prefer in this spot, you can pick if you are as someone drafting for the Dolphins. So, Kelvin Banks, Jedi Baron, or the safety.

of your choice, which direction are you going for the Miami Dolphins here? I would go Calvin Banks, I think. I think that you've seen enough poor offensive line play in this Mike McDaniel offense. And I think that seat's starting to get a little bit warm there where you realize, okay, you know, if we can get an immediate floor razor and ceiling razor by getting a guy who can be a quality left tackle for us for many games, for ideally most of the games of the NFL season. I think you know how impactful that's going to be, especially with the departures elsewhere

on the line that they've had, right? Like right now the interior is looking like Liam Eichenberg is going to play again, right? They added James Daniels to hopefully take one of the guard spots, but he's got to stay healthy. Like, you know, they've had their departures on the interior. And so adding talent everywhere starts to become more important along that offensive line. I'm not a baron guy. I think baron is a full-time nickel in the NFL. And so to me, that's not a player that I'm going for in the top round one.

And then I- Is there a corner that you would consider in that range if you were thinking about a corner in the top half of the first round? So, yeah, I like Will Johnson. And like I said, I'm not a barren guy. And then after that, I think most of the corners are more sort of end of the round one guys. And again, it's a very dense group there. Savon Ravel, the corner out of East Carolina is coming off the injury. I like Azarié Thomas out of Florida State.

You have Harrison, the Kentucky kid who can fly. Like, there's a lot of good guys. But to me, again, those are like 20s dudes. And it's the same thing with Malachi Stark. I find him a very likable player, but I find it to be a, you know, I expect to be a solid starter in the NFL, which is just, if I'm at 13, it feels like I'm going too far for a, you know, more non-premium position like safety is. if you let me, you know, kick back 10 picks, then yeah, I think Malki Stark starts become a lot more viable.

Emin Wari, yes or no? Yeah, but I think Emin war is a year away. And I think that if, you know, obviously McDaniels, all the one calling the shots in the room. I don't think McDaniel could be really messing around with the years away, year away sorts of guys. And even for the Dolphins sake, right? You have the one year deal on If you Malphan, with the one year doing, Ashton Davis. So if you go and you add him in Wari, okay, you can maybe hold, hold the spot with one

year with one of those guys and then he steps in. I think it works. But I just don't think you're getting. as much impact as you'd like to you for a pick again top half of the first round. I was considering giving you an option to trade back here with one of these teams. We're trying to keep the trades contained to the teams that we're talking about so you don't get some weird multiverse butterfly effects. I want to screw over whoever's coming on next week.

Yeah, exactly. I think it's Trevor Sickerborda hops on next week. Excellent. I used to come as I was trying for three years. Give you all of his picks. Let's go. I was going to say you'd be happy to screw over Trevor, but I think try to keep it contained so we don't have some weird butterfly effect multiverse thing happening.

is what we're trying to do. There wasn't a team involved here that I felt compelled to give you a trade for. Like, if you look at the Falcons, the Cardinals, the Bengals, and the Seahawks, in the Colts, I don't think that there's a player in this range or a position available in this range, that one of those teams would be like, we have to trade away a fourth round pick to move from 17 to 13 to get one of these guys. Do you disagree? Do you think there's a prize here that one of those teams could potentially be willing to

move up for? I like prize probably not I would say that I look at the falcons at 15 the bangles at 17 and I go okay some edge rushers are about to leave the board I look at the Bengals at 17 the cardals at 16 the Seahawks 18 I go okay some guards are about to leave the board and so if you're taking me to a team after that group who wants to go move up to get a guy I think trading up this year is going to be very very cheap on so if you're like you know if you feel good about Mike green off the field and you absolutely love the film which is defensible Mike green's a great film you say okay he ain't making it past the falcons of 15 out with Jamie walk off the board I got to go get a guy, then maybe it's the positional runs that makes it happen just because there are some similar needs in the end of the teens here, the end of my group. But yeah, for a specific individual, no, no on the board who felt like that. It's a great, that's a great thing to bring up. And looking at a couple of those different options, the Bengals feel like a team that might be compelled to go get a pass rush or defensive linemen of some kind. They're not a team that is very aggressive in these spots. And I also think reading a lot, and we'll talk about the

Bengals here in a second, but reading a lot of what Paul Deiner has written over the last couple weeks here. Their needs don't seem to line up with the public perceptions needs. So them like needing an edge rusher and wanting to maybe hop in front of the Falcons might be less of a concern for the Bengals than it is for Bengals fans. And then the other teams like, let's say the Colts are a little bit worried about the dolphins drafting an offensive lineman or the Cardinals are a little bit worried about the dolphins drafting an offensive lineman. I think both of those teams have enough needs and enough potential guys where they might not feel compelled to give away picks to move up for the best interior.

offensive linemen in the group. Yeah, like I say, I think it's a great year to trade up, because I don't think it's going to cost a lot. I think very few teams are going to feel compelled to do it. So if that phone does ring for you, you want to trade back. And one team actually is so committed to Mike Green, Calvin Banks, whoever it ends up being. Then yeah, I think you're going to see, I think you'll see more trades in round one than you expect because I think the asks are going to be pretty light. And accordingly, yeah, like, I'll jump up two, three spots to make sure I go get my guy. That's fair. And for Atlanta, obviously, they need an edge rusher, but because of who's drafting in front of them right now and who's still on the board in this exercise,

there are like three or four guys who might still be available, which is one of the reasons they might not want to move up. So that's why I didn't throw a trade out as one of those options. But I think Kelvin Banks does make a lot of sense for Miami at 13. Like you mentioned, they signed James Daniels in free agency. He's coming off of Achilles. But even if you think he can be your starting right guard, you need somebody at left guard to make Liamikenberg depth.

So I think Calvin Banks does make a lot of sense. And I think Banks is ideally you're starting year one left tackle, but if Patrick Paul beats him out in camp, which I don't think we said anything in Patrick Paul last year that makes you feel like that's happening. But if it does, then Banks to me is a guard candidate. Like every tackle this year is kind of a guard candidate. So there's utility there. My thought is in reading kind of the tea leaves of what the dolphins have been saying about potentially losing Toronto Armstead and Patrick Paul being the guy that was next in line there, that's why I was thinking that he could play left tackle and then Banks play left guard. But however that shakes out, your banks would be a starter for you day one.

That's the ideal situation. Let's get to the Indianapolis Colts at 14. here are your three options for the Colts. Tight end Colson-Levelin for Michigan. I don't need to hear the next two. That's it. Keep going. Keep going. The other one was interior offensive lineman.

Calvin Banks, if he's available or Tyler Booker. Third option was Jihad Campbell from Alabama. For you, you don't need to hear the options. Colson Leveland is the answer. John Campbell is interesting for a second. I like Campbell a lot. The film is good. The torn labor room seems like it's really impacting the draft process.

There might be a fall there. I can't really speak to his medicals. That's something that kind of got talked about post combine, and we're also hearing about through the grapevine. I have loved Linda's tidet one. I like him, my hair better than Warren. I think I can't,

like it's splitting hairs legitimately. They're both very good tight ends. They both bring value as blockers. They both bring value as receivers. They're just to use a little bit differently. So much of Warren's production at Penn State was the goofy stuff, right? Was like, you know, the screens and the throwbacks and the wheels on the fake screens and everything, which is totally fine.

Playing center and catching jump balls in the end zone. It doesn't take anything away from, he's clearly got height. He's got, you know, power. He's got some strength. He's got some movement skills to him. But it is to say that if you want Warren to have a round one impact on your passing game, you got to design stuff for him. You have to go make place for him to, for his skill set to shine.

Loveland, I just put him, why forget about it, right? Because he has the long speed. He's got the change of direction. He catches everything. He's got wonderful hands away from his frame through contact. He can line up on the outside for you too a little bit if you want to use that way in your tight end. So you go and you look at the Colts and you say, oh, Anthony Richardson. and the run game and the multiple backfield stuff.

Like, Warren would be a great fit for them, but there's nothing that Loveland can't do. And I do think that if you're being a run-heavy approach there with Richardson, I do think in the trenches tied up next to the offensive tackle, Loveland is a better blocker than Warren, which I think Warren gets like the tough guy moniker, so you just assume he's a better blocker, and he is tough as nails.

But he's got really short arms. He actually doesn't displace, like, un-roop-root people the way you might expect him to. He's very high-cut. He doesn't have, like, that lower-body leverage. So what do you think has led to? to that reputation in your mind? Like, why do you, why do you think that that has been attached to Warren more than

it's been attached to Love One in the process? Because he plays for Penn State and he kind of has a mullet and like, and he makes insanely, and he's very physical with the ball in his hands. And so it just, it makes sense, right? Our brain is actually kind of fill in the gap of the evaluation. I just, I, he has, it's the length thing. He hasn't wanted to see like 10th percentile arm length for tight ends where he does. It's 31.5.

It's very, very light. And so you just see him when he goes to, you know, that he's into contact, good, his His pads are low, his hips underneath his pads, and then he goes to uproot, and he doesn't have the lockout that you would expect a guy to have because he's a little bit lacking in length. All of this to say that Loveland, who's a little bit linear and thinner,

and just like he's not going to, you know, 260 pounds roll people off the line of scrimmage. He's still, he's a Michigan tight end, right, to fall into the new stereotype now. And he absolutely, he understands how to get into his blocks. He knows how to seal guys off. He's like, kind of steal an extra half second with a hold. Like, he gets the job done.

And so to me, like, Leveland would fit very nicely with all the Colts needed tight end. So, so that, okay, that was that's, I was going to my next question here. You like Lovin as a prospect. How does it fit with what the Colts already have? So now your past catching group here, if you draft a tight end at 14, you've got a really good tight end, hopefully.

You've got Michael Pittman. You've got Josh Downs. You got Adi Mitchell you drafted in the second around last year. You have Alec Pierce. The quarterback, we have absolutely no idea how this is going to go. But you probably feel pretty good about the Colts past catching options if Colson level and turned into the player that you want him to be at 14. And I do think that one of the, the, the,

issues that the Colts ran into last season was they looked at Pitman, they looked at Downs, they looked at Pierce. They said, okay, obviously Pierce plays way deep down the field for us, but he's kind of this 50-50 guy, this jump ball guy, and, you know, Pittman we more so use underneath. Downs can play downfield a little bit, but he's smaller. We use him in the slot. Let's get A.D. Mitchell, and let's have some real, like, you know, speed, some field stretching abilities, that's a big place. And then Mitchell just, it never crystallized with Richardson a quarterback. The chemistry was never great. Mitchell's made his mental errors, and Richardson had his accuracy issues, and it was no good.

in Loveland, I'm introducing a player who from the slot from the seam can put a lot of vertical stress on you right away. Loveland eats up ground off the line of scrimmon. She's got big strides and he goes. And so this is not like a traditional field stretching, you know, thought. But if you're thinking about that play action heavy approach and that ability to sucker some linebackers down and then get your one-on-one opportunities down the field, I like Loveland in that sort of a role because of how quickly

he gets downfield, he's so good catching above the rim. He's awesome, awesome, awesome, catching the ball when it's above his face mask. And so I like verticality with Loveland. He's good on the breaking stuff and he's good yards after the catch. But I do like the ability to get him moving up the seam in this exact offense. How do I feel about the Colts offensive line as it currently stands? Because I don't think there's been a lot of national conversation about this after losing two starters that got paid a hefty amount of money in free agency. And now banking on third and fourth round picks from last year to just step in and try to hit the ground running so you can maintain what sort of rushing offense you want to be.

I'll tell you, the Tanner Bordellini film, I promise it's his real name. People don't think it's right. Tanner Bordellini. I love him. The film last year was good. For rookie center, the film last year was good. I understand why they have the amount of faith in him that they do.

Matt Gonclay is a little bit more of the question. He, if memory serves how to play, a majority of his snaps at tackle last season, moving him now into the guards. I think that's a little bit more of your question mark. You have Danny Pinter there who's been good depth for you over his time. And the Colts have historically drafted pretty good along the offensive line under Ballard. I don't mind keeping the faith where the faith is right now

in their ability to draft and develop along the offensive line. especially like I said, Bordellini, I think is going to pretty quickly step in and be a good starting center for them. Maybe not what Ryan Kelly was at his peak, but still enough. And so I have really more so one major question at Guard.

I think Guard is one of those spots that it's, as the Colts can have evidence, you know, looking at how they're approaching it, you can fill that in round two. You can fill that in round three, right? Impactful past catching tight end. It usually can't find those anywhere, right? You drop in round one and you miss.

But if you're going to go do it, I think, I think round one is the spot with Loveland. So Jihad Campbell being tempting for you here. Is that more about Jehad Campbell the player or how Jehad Campbell fits with the Colts current situation on defense and their specific needs right now? John Campbell, the player, I think he's a very good stack linebacker. And the fact that he can line up on the edge and did that in his college career at times and is good at it is cool. Right? Like, okay, like Lou and a room mobile like that, that would be handy.

But if you took that information out of my head, and I didn't even know that he had the edge background, he could do it. And you just showed me a stack linebacker play, like offball linebacker. I beg, yeah, yeah, that's a round one linebacker. the size, the movement skills. He gets more comfortable as the year goes on, playing with routes behind him and getting into throwing lanes. He's very handy, hawking down those mobile quarterback sideline to sideline,

which is a big deal now for your modern linebacker. So to me, yeah, like I just, I like Campbell a lot. He's one of the guys that's hardest to find a landing spot for right now, just because offball linebacker in round one, there's going to be some teams who's just, it's a straight now. And then, like I said, he's got the laborer, and that I think is going to take him off some other boards as well for the medical. So it is tricky to find a home for him.

The Colts haven't needed offball linebacker coming into the draft for the first time. in I don't know, 10 years. They've been cycling draftics, yeah. It's been a very long time since that has been a clear need heading into the draft because you had that moment where it was Darius Leonard and who was playing next to Darius Leonard at that point. Bobby O'Kareke. That's right. That's right.

So it was J. Lerick, and Zaire O'Karek, and then it was Bobby O'Carichay and Zayor-Franklin. And then it was Zyir-Franklin and E.J. Speed is gone. So now it's the first time that it's like, all right, we actually probably need to find one somewhere along the way here, which is not a conversation we have typically been having a, about the Colts. But I think that's another reason why Jehad Campbell is at least a little bit interesting for that team because they do have a need at that spot.

Yep. I will say, in class of Colts fashion, they do have a guy in the building they like. Say, go to Lobby. All right, they got another one. He's coming up. Here we go. All right. We're going to take a quick break and then come back with the rest of the middle of round one here.

Before we get back into the show, the Beast from Dane Bruegler is live on Wednesday at 6 a.m. Dane's authoritative draft guide is interactive this year. he and our design team put together a really cool digital version of the beast that you guys are going to love. For those of you who prefer to hold it in your hands, it is still available as a PDF. As an old man, I deeply appreciate that. I love the fact that it's just sitting on my desk top and I can access it whatever. And of course, Dane will be on the athletic football show twice this week, including tomorrow's launch day. He will be with us twice a week all the way through the draft.

And like I mentioned at the top of the show, our live draft show is coming to you guys on nights one and two this year, live from Chicago. and that will just be all Dane all the time. So if you're excited about the beast, your weight is over. It will be available on Wednesday at 6 a.m. Eastern. Let's keep rolling here. The Atlanta Falcons, the way that this is set up here, if you're Atlanta, you got to feel pretty good if you like any of these edge rushers, because the only two guys who, I guess you could say are edge rushers that are off the board right now

are Abdul Carter and Jalen Walker. That's it. Every single edge, like true defensive end, is still available in this draft. other than Abdul Carter. So that's option one. Pick any of the edge rushers. Whichever one you like. Is it Shabar Stewart?

Is it McCaw Williams? Is it Mike Green? I don't know. You get to choose. Option two, whoever the top safety is. Do you want a safety? Whatever one you want, he is available to you here. You can do that.

Option three, I'm going to scrap this one because I know you like, you don't like Judi-Baron. Wild card. Defensive wild card. Any other defensive player. Is it a defensive tackle? Is it something I'm not thinking about right? now. So edge rusher, the top safety available, or defensive wildcard, anybody that has piqued

your interest in that spot. What are you doing? So first, I don't think Falcons fans can ever feel pretty good. And I think we have a ceiling on how good they can ever feel. Especially when it comes to edge rushers and finding one. Yes. And the NFL drafted the first round of it and the plans there. I think the ceiling is below pretty in terms of how good Falcons fans can feel. As always, the most fun Falcons stats, right, besides John Abraham, the leading sack getter, for the Atlanta Falcons over the last 20 years is Vic Beasley, right? Because he had one 16 and a half sack season. It's just, it's been so dire.

It's been so tough for them in the past rush your department. I think, in arguably, you have to go edge here. They add Leonard Floyd. They add Morgan Fox, who Floyd is a, is a Demico Ryan's retread. Fox actually never overlapped with him with the Rams of memory serves, but still, these are veteran players who've been around for a while, who've had their moments, but just like, you don't, they're not scale-tipping players, probably kind of did this a little bit last year with Matthew Judon,

always going to solve the pass rush. Justin Simmons is always going to solve the secondary. If they've been around, they've been around. And usually we want to get younger players and players a little bit more in their prime. And so I think so much more is needed to add to the past rush right now. The player for me is Mike Green, Adam Marshall. I think that he is the best family, the guy that I would pick. Now, like I talked about this earlier, Green's got off-field concerns.

He had, he's had two sexual assault accusations. He talked about this at the combine, one in high school and then one during his time at Virginia that led to his suspension from the program and then he transferred to Marshall. He's never been charged. So now that we're at the stage We from the outside have no information about this Teams have been asking him about it They've been talking to people that he knew about it

We're going to find out on draft day Kind of what teams have cleared green with a flag Which team hasn't I don't know what to tell you on that The film on green is yeah He led the FBS in Saks at Marshall He dominated when he played a high caliber competition They had Ohio State Virginia Tech He was highly impactful in both of those games

Motors is extremely hot The play style is what you expect Of a double digit sack rusher in the NFL In terms of the bend and the high side rushes uses the hand to get around that outside corner can flatten the quarterback, highly bursty player, very explosive so he can be off the line of scrimmage and then he can get to

that passer and get him down before the quarterback's able to change his location. He came in weirdly, again, short arms at the NFL Combine and so I was like, oh, this is like a Daniel Hunter sort of player, Brian Burns sort of player and then he has like 31-inch arms. They're like, okay, wait a minute, maybe he's never going to kind of generate that longer than that speed

of power. What was the remasure of the arms after the combine? Did we get any better? That's very true. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We can't trust any more NFL combine arm lengths because the scout doing it was having a bad day and just wanted everybody to be stubby. Mike Green. I'm wondering what it was. 32 and 3 eighths

at his pro day. Much more palatable for Mike Green. It's a very good point. Just wanted to bring it up. I feel like something we have to like recheck every single time when we're talking about these guys. So when you mentioned Leonard Floyd before, you met Rahim Morris. See, he was with Rahim Morris in L.A. So that's the connection there. So as you look at, I'm curious about what

you think of Shemar Stewart and Michael Williams, even if you like Mike Green Moore. Shemar Stewart is obviously a divisive kind of prospect and conversation right now with all of the tools, none of the production. And Michael Williams feels like a diet version of that a little bit was more productive than Shamar Stewart, but still feel like there are some questions. Even if you like Mike Green better than those two guys, where do they stack for you in terms of where you would draft them if you were another team in this range?

I have, so Mikel Green right now is my 10th overall player in the draft. I have Michael Williams at 12 and I have Shamar Stewart at 15. Gotcha. So all in the same general range. I love that we're doing this with Stewart more so. we're doing with Mike Lowe a little bit, as if we just haven't done the draft before ever, where we're like, man, this guy was not productive.

It is highly athletic. What could be the case? He watched the film. You're like, oh, because he doesn't get to play the rush the passer position. One of the, and this was less a thing. I think this was less a thing like 10, 15 years ago, and that's why we're still getting it into the conversation come draft year every single season.

But the, I line up at edge, I play the C-GAP, and then I rush the passer roll, which in the NFL, every single team has, Usually two guys doing that. Very rarely we see only just one guy doing that. There are many, many, many, many college defenses who have zero guys doing that on a snap because of the field, the different size of the field,

where the hashes are, because of the amount of RPL, the amount of quarterback run, defensive structure and the college ranks has changed very, very much so in the front, such that you have fronts like Texas is this year and like Georgia's for years now. I remember talking about Trayvon Walker, right?

For years now where the guy plays a role for 70% of his snaps that is just not analogous, not only to what he'll do in the NFL, to anything he'll see in the NFL. He'll never, never, never do it. Short of Brandon Staley and like, you know, even like Mike McDonald comes up

from the college ranks, oh, Jesse Minter comes up for the college ranks. They don't run these four eyes the way that they do in college because you don't need to do in the NFL. It's not useful. And so, oh, like, how can we draft Shamar Stewart in round one?

Because what he did in college just not represented to what we're going to ask him to do in the NFL. So you have to fall back on traits and traits on Shamar Stewart and Michael Williams are both like, right, 99th percentile, breaking the graph,

highly explosive long and big dudes. And so I like both of them. And I get it for both of them. If you're looking at the rest of the needs for Atlanta, how close do you think safety and corner get to edge rusher? Are they in the same stratosphere? Or do you think that edge rusher is in its own tier by a lot? Yeah.

Safety, I feel okay-ish because Jesse Bates is so good. And obviously that that strong safety spot is not great. But strong safety is one of those spots that you can cheese decently well at the NFL level, get a guy in the box, kind of minimize his role. Like, I think that, you know, good, good offense will pick on you, obviously. But, like, you can kind of work around the margins there. Corner is such a huge need.

But it's just how long edge rusher has sucked that it feels like it can't. Like, if this really is the same way. If I didn't know it was the Falcons, I'd be like, oh, edge and corner for sure. But put the team name on it. I'm like, it's got to be edge, right? Because of how long they've suffered at this position. Yeah, bringing Mike Hughes back was an interesting choice for the depth that corner spot.

I was a big Clark Phillips guy coming out. I think he looks good when he plays, but they play him on the outside and he's short. And they won't let him in the nickel spot because they have my cues. And so I, I don't understand what the plan is for the opposite corner, AJ Terrell. So yeah, like if you, again, if you wanted to take a guy here,

I think it's defensible. But I like the edges at 15 way more and I like the corners. New coordinator too. So it feels like there might be a different conversation for who gets on the field, how they're trying to play. What do you make of the Jeff Obrick fit with this current personnel? Because for me,

it was kind of a statement that we're not tied to anything about this defense. Like going from Rahim Morris and going from what the Rams had looked like over the last few years to Jeff Ulbrook, who was like a dyed in the wool four three guy, it feels like that is a signal that we didn't feel like anything here was not worth scrapping and starting over with the best possible coordinator. So how do you make, what do you make of this personnel filtered through that schematic lens now that Oldbrick is there? I think it's broken up the right, tray.

I think that, right, there's a section of defensive coordinators who are just like, I will solve every problem with the four-down rush, right? I remember watching Jim Schwartz when he was the Eagles, D.C. I was doing Eagles coverage. And it was just like, man, this guy will bang his head into the wall against any offensive system. He's getting ripped to shreds by good pocket bastards. He's just going to solve with the four-man rush, right?

If we can just dominate up front, it doesn't matter. And Ulbock falls to me into that category. It's like, so, okay, I think that that, let's say that's the direction that the Falcons want to go and they want to get that guy. I would then turn to Rahim and I'd be like, dude, you have to decide what your defensive identity is. You can't build a team like this, right? Like it has been since, since 2021 now, right?

That's when he took over for Staley, I want to say, with the Rams, maybe it was 22. Yeah, it was like three, yeah, four or five years now. It's been, oh, Rahim Morris is multiple and he's changing what he does and he's fitting his personnel. Like, that's great and we love the coach speaking, like you should fit to your personnel. At some point, you got to know what your tenants are.

You got to have cornerstones. We need this body type at defensive end to make this section of plays work. We need this guy at corner to make these car. coverage's work. And when you're constantly remapping and reconstructing and figuring things out, it just, you lack a North Star from a personnel perspective, right? And again, like I look at the Leonard Floyd and the Jordan Fuller and the Devon Diablo and the Morgan Fox. I go, oh, a lot of veterans who can do stuff. And it feels like, right, they're just trying to just plug gaps as they appear. And they very much feel like they lack direction for me on defense.

That's why I think this is interesting, though, because I don't think, if you look at the guys they've drafted up front, I think up front, it's easier in the back end. it's easier to kind of strayed in different directions because I think those players are probably a little bit more malleable than they are up front when it comes to body types. And if you look at the body types up front, the guys that really would pigeonhole you into playing a certain way were drafted by previous regimes.

So Arlabucati is drafted in 2022 when I think Dean Pease was there. That's a very different sort of defense than when Zach Harrison was drafted in the third round when Ryan Nielsen was there. But other than that, you kind of got some interior players they drafted last year and then Leonard Floyd is now your biggest investment among your edge players and your pass rushers. So it does feel like because they haven't committed to any sort of approach on that side, they can kind of start over if they want to. And that's a little bit what this

feels like to me. So that's why like you can just drop in whatever edge rusher you want because you haven't chosen a direction. So let me let's say it's the Jeff Oldbrick defense, man. We're living in the four down front. We're going to rush the passer. It would take three draft picks. in the first three rounds for me to get excited about this defensive line in that system. That's the issue, right? Is it when you're always changing and taking you turns and refiguring out your approach, every year, I'm like, okay, you're multiple pieces away. Because I just like, if you get two good pass rushers on this defensive line,

I still think I can eliminate those and you can't punish me with the other two. My problem is I think that they're multiple pieces away anyway, no matter what sort of front that they're playing. I think that's where I land with this team. Let's get to the Arizona Cardinals at 16. Here are your three options for the Arizona Carlin. Cardinals. One, you're a top offensive lineman available. I think you lean into your offensive lineman here, but if you want to get a little bit wonky, if you like Josh Simmons, for example,

Jonah Williams, I think is going to be a free agent after this season. That's available to you. I'm giving you a little bit of wiggle room there. Number two, any defensive player that you want. The Cardinals. What's number three? Is it just all the other players who are left? This is amazing. So number three, Matthew Golden, because I do think their receiver is still a need for the Cardinals. If you wanted to have a different receiver there, you could. But I just wanted to throw out Matthew Golden is probably the highest receiver on the consensus board there. The reason I didn't get more specific with the defensive player for the Cardinals is that I don't necessarily think there is one glaring need positionally for the Cardinals right now. I think if I threw two out there based on their current depth chart, I would probably start off ball linebacker.

Kaiser White was a free agent this year. They replaced him with the Keem Davis Gather who feels like more of a depth piece to me than somebody. you can really rely on. And then Sean Murphy Bunting is going to be a free agent after this year. I think you can get better at outside corner, even with Max Melton stepping in a year two. Those are probably the two biggest needs, I would say. But I don't think anything is really off the table. Even with the Josh Sweat signing, even going out and getting Clayas Campbell and

Dalvin Tomlinson, obviously both of those guys are a little bit older. I think you could justify an interior defensive lineman. I think you could justify a safety if you wanted more depth there. This is a team that plays three safeties anyway. you could justify an outside corner and I think you could still justify an edge rusher. So that's why I didn't get more specific about it because I think anything is available to them right now. Yeah.

I agree with you. I was I was pretty like, all right, they're going to be a defensive tackle team before the Dalvin Tomlinson signing, which they made pretty late in the process. I don't know in 2025 how much, how many eggs to put in the Dalvin Tomlinson basket. He got real money, man. Two years, 29 million, 14 million guaranteed. I was surprised about that. Yeah.

And right, exactly. So they gave him that money. They have Ballal Nichols and Justin. Jones both coming back from injury hypothetically and so it's like right. I don't just don't know if there's enough snaps to go around for around one guy. I'm inclined to think Jihad Campbell here. You brought up Kaiser White being an upcoming free agent. I think they've,

when they've suffered at the linebacker spot, they've suffered for size between Mack Wilson and Kaiser White. They've struggled for strength and losing at the point of attack. I think that's an issue that Jod Campbell can solve for you because of the way that he's built. Talked about him earlier. The labor is an issue. I don't know if teams are going to have him here. Mel Kuiper has said multiple times now he might fall all the way out of round one.

So the range is really, really wide. but you can get a year one use out of him, even when you have Kaiser and Max still both on the roster because he can give you some pass rush package stuff. We know that John and this team specifically, I think that matters, right? They're going to do a lot of wonky stuff and use him. Yeah.

Gannon is very comfortable with players like that, right? I talked about the midseason trade last year for Baron Browning and a guy who's not necessarily a super big edge rusher, but hey, I want him for particular sub packages. And, you know, they have Brian Browning, they have Zaven Collins. So, okay, like, you know, do we have room?

And they obviously had Josh Swet. Do we have room for him? Yeah, you do. Because he can rush. A gap, B gap, C gap. Like you can put them anywhere and move him anywhere as part of your packages. But then you're right, year two, year three moving on. Then you have the ability to replace Kaiser White for him.

He'd probably move to Mike linebacker and Mac would move to Will, which I think is a better spot from Mac overall anyway. So John Campbell feels like, yeah, the biggest immediate need, but it's more so a long-term view for Arizona. When I had defensive wildcard of the options, the four things I typed out were IDL, safety, cornerback, Campbell. So he was the only specific player that I had mentioned because I thought that you might want to do that.

If the Cardinals draft a third round one linebacker in the last like five years, they may lose half the fan base, but John's actually like, he's good. It would be a nice pick. At least it's a different front office. At least it's a different group of people making the pick. So it's a little bit easier to talk yourself into. The Cardinals, after having been flush with draft picks over the last few years, actually don't have that many picks this year.

They only have six picks as things currently stand. They do not have a sixth round pick. They own their picks in rounds one through five. Let's say, hypothetically, the Cardinals pick, Campbell here, and they draft whatever corner is available at 47. And they get a guy that can step in and compete to be a starter there in day one. How do you feel about the Arizona Cardinals defensive personnel, if that unfolds? Are you at least a little bit intrigued by it?

So my rule of defense is always this, right? There's the regular season and there's the postseason. And the regular season, if you have 11 good players and you got a good schemer and you can throw a lot of different pitches and you'll adjust your opponent, right? Like the Cardinals say, oh, you know, this play this way against the dolphins, then this way against the Ravens. Like, it's all fine and dandy. It's all great.

I think the Stevens could be quite solid when we play regular season football. The moment you hit postseason football, I start looking for stars. I start looking for game records, game takeover players. Because postseason football, the opposing offense is going to find your 11th best player and hammer them. And there's nothing you can do about it. No defense is 11 great players. It doesn't exist.

So now I need guys who can make up the math difference for me. It can be that impactful of guys. Right now on this team, I would say it's Josh Sweat. And I just sweat to me does not rise to that level of like, oh, I'm scared during postseason football. So this would be a sort of defense where I would say the, we love it. We're talking about it in week seven. Makes for a nice week 10 column, right? What are the Cardinals up to on defense?

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Like it's good regular season fodder. But this to me does not going to get a defense that would be ready for postseason football, which obviously like no one's talking about the Cardinals is winning the Super Bowl. But hey, like it's been a couple years now for gaining and awesome for it. Like the plan that the time is the time. Like we got dudes now that you've turned over out of this roster. It's time for there to be something postseason.

and proof in the putting, as it were. And so, yeah, that's my, they're a good regular season defense. I'd be worried about the postseason. I think that's totally fair. I think your hope is that you get serious jumps from Darius Robertson and MacMelton in your two. Oh, and Buda.

I should say Buddha for example. I figured you would include Buda in there as well. But I think that's what you're betting on because they, for the most part, used a lot of their high, high end draft picks on offense. To, I would say, varying degrees of success, right? Drafting Paris Johnson and Marvin Harrison in the top 10. Like, they're guys that you,

can rely on but aren't super needle movers on that side. They've weighted a little bit on defense. So again, you really need that 2024 draft class to show up in a big way. Darius Robertson obviously didn't play much last year. So that would be a pretty big boon to what you're talking about. But it's not as clear the pathways for finding those stars on defense as it

might be on offense for the state. Max Mellon, a nice little rookie year that I'll tell you that. Again, I don't think it's needle moving yet, but Max Mellon had some plays. He's fun to watch. Any sort of temptation to take an offensive lineman here. because I just want to see better talent along the Cardinals' offensive line

that they've had over the last two years. I think the Cardinals' ideal draft is trade back and get an interior player because I think right now at 16, 17, 17, 16, I think we're a little early on Tyler Booker, a little early on Donovan Jackson. Another Ohio State guy would be the third dude in a row, but I love Donovan Jackson.

It's a little bit too early on the guards just for where they're currently slated. But I think you'd like to do that and right, have a, again, talk about scale tippers, a real impactful guy in the running game, a dude who like, you know, will win some one-on-ones against some elite defense tackle competition guy.

You can build a running game behind. Because the Cardo's running game has been good and interesting and impressive and petting and scheming it up and it's been great. James Conner's upcoming free agent. Benson last year, I think, had some good plays, had some bad plays. They did, I thought, a very nice job initially filling the roster. Evan Brown, Yelta Froholt, right? Like, they made nice moves.

There's some worlds where like very quickly, this running game just, okay, loses its fastball, right? Connor's super banged up. And like, you know, the league's kind of. of wise on what the schemes are and how they use Kyler. And then all of a sudden, like, again, like, you just don't have a dude on this line who's, okay, you know, we run behind Trent Williams, period, right?

Like, he's just this for us. Like, they don't have that caliber of player. Tight end, same thing. They're not with that caliber of guy. And so, yeah, I would, I would not mind an investment early in the office line with a focus on the running game. I just think 16 is a little too rich. I think that's totally fair.

And I also think that just the dropback game and being able to hold up when you want to live that way has been a struggle for them over the last few years. If you look at the gap between their play action efficiency, and their dropback efficiency, there is a real gap there. And I think offensive line talent and personnel helps explain some of that. So getting some real dudes who are not paper over solutions. Like, Evan Brown for two years, 11 million is a, if we don't find anything better solution. Like that's exactly what that contract tells you.

I think they would like to find a couple things that are better than what they've been dealing with over the last couple years. I agree. Let's take one more quick break here. And then we're going to come back with the Bengals and the Seahawks to close this thing out. Let's get to the Cincinnati Bengals here at 17. Let's do a quick reset for the players that have been drafted so far, just to throw it out there. Oh, yeah, I got to make sure I know who's off the board.

Miami at 13, Calvin Banks. Colts at 14, Colston Lovelland. Those are option one for both of those teams. I feel pretty good about that for setting you up that way. Atlanta Falcons at 15, Mike Green, Arizona Cardinals at 16, Jehad Campbell linebacker from Alabama. I think I'm smashing it currently. Let's keep it going.

Option one. for the Bengals, your top edge rusher available. If you'd like to pick a defensive tackle here, we can talk about it. But for right now, I'm giving you whatever edge rusher you want here. Option two, top interior offensive linemen available. That can be Booker, that can be Donovan Jackson maybe, whoever you happen to like here. Option three, again, this is partially driven by what Paul Diner has written about how they see their needs and safety being maybe more of need and more pressing than some of the other spots potentially.

So I had Starks or Eminwarie here as a third option for you. So top edge rush are available, top into your offensive lineman or Starks or Emuari, which direction are you going if you are picking for the Bengals? My highest grade of player is just above Malachi Starks. Actually, no, it's the edge rushers. I was immediately going past the edge rushers because I very much agree with, I don't think the Bengals want this Trey Hendrickson thing too fizzle. I think they want to make sure their price tag stays way too high.

and their interest stays way too low and it's just, oh, we wish, oh, we want, oh, we can't. And then maybe they're able to get an extension done or maybe he just plays another year. That plus retaining Joseph Osai, having the first round picking Miles Murphy. Again, like, I don't think, I don't think Osai plus Murphy, they're like,

woo, we're killing it. But at some point, you have to say, okay, we've invested X amount in this position and we just have to invest somewhere else and see if those investments can do something for us to the point where I don't rush to edge rusher for the Bengals. Obviously, if something happens with Hendricks in between now and then,

that calculus changes dramatically, but that's where I'm at right now. So to me, I don't want to go edge. And like I said, I've Stark's graded very highly, but right above my of Donovan Jackson. The guard out of Ohio State, he had to kick over and play left tackle this year after Josh Simmons went down.

Took him like three or four games. And all of a sudden, he's just playing great left tackle. Like out of, it was, and like he's clearly not built to play left tackle. He's heavy footed. He's a waistbender. Like, this is not the body type you want out there. And he's surviving and he's creative with his hands

and he's getting away with holding. And like, it just kind of shows you, okay, this player understands football. He gets how he's going to win and how he's going to lose it left tackle and he's making do with the hand he's been dealt. I thought that was very impressive. You go back and you watch the guard film

when he's playing there next to Simmons before he went down. Yeah, this is a squatty, thick, powerful left guard who will move people for you in the running game. And once he gets his hooks in you, it's done. It is very, very rare that he loses

after he lands his punch, which is what I like in a past directing guard, right? Okay, you get hit, you know, Jeffrey Simmons throws a club rip on you. He's in the A gap. You lose early. It's going to happen to the best of them. Can you finish rushes?

You know, you don't lose to power. You don't lose the secondary hand usage. You're going to stonewall guy once you get him. And Jackson does that very reliably. He's got great hands. Like I said, a little bit heavy footed, a little bit of a waistbender. There's about 20 good guards in the NFL. You can say the same thing of, you know what I'm saying?

It's a little bit part for the course for the position. So right now, Cody Ford projected to play right guard for them. Jackson's been a left over the course of his career. But I feel pretty confident he can make the solution outperform, Cody Ford in 2025. So I'll give Donovan Jackson to the Bengals. The hope is if you pick an offensive guard in the first, first couple rounds here, and that is nominally your starter at one of those spots,

then you feel a little bit better about the process of, all right, we're going to roll the ball out whatever of Cordell, Voulson, Cody Ford, or Lucas Patrick wins that job. We can cobble together starting guard play. Yeah. We can quibble with whether or not we agree with that, but I think that's a justifiable

plan if you're the Bengals. It's where you're at as a team. It's where you've arrived. Yeah. Why Jonathan Jackson over Booker for you? So, Booker, a much bigger player. He tested at the NFL combine ran pretty slow.

A worryingly poor 10-yard split. Obviously, four-yard dash, who cares. But worryingly, a wordingly poor 10-yard split, which is that short air explosiveness we like to talk about at the guard spot. So I think that made some people can reassess is this really our top interior

offensive linemen. I think when you put the film and the film next to each other, I can't get a big difference between Booker and Donovan Jackson. Like, I think they're pretty much the same tier in terms of play style is pretty similar. I think Jackson's a little bit better

in the past the game. I think Booker's a little bit better on the running game. And then I have no medical flag, I have no athleticism flag for Jackson relative to a little bit of a red flag on Booker. And I watched Jackson hop over to left tackle and play pretty well against Apple Carter

for four quarters. And again, I don't want that to happen in my NFL life, but if a player can do that, that to me is just a sign again that he fundamentally has a really good understanding of how the game works. They did that mid-season, right? They wanted to put Simmons back about there.

He was struggling. And they said, Jackson, you just solve this problem for us. Like, that's, to me, that's maturity. To me, that's football IQ. Like that's a big green flag for me. And so if the Bengals take Booker day of, I would not be like, oh, what a mistake. Oh, but Donovan Jackson was on the board. I don't think the difference is that big.

But for me, Jackson's got a little bit of a safer eval, a little bit of a higher ceiling. Okay. So you shoot edge rusher because you think that with Hendrickson, with Miles Murphy, with Osai coming back, you're comfortable at least rolling with that group to start things off compared to some other positions. If I had given you an into- Probably rich. I accept the reality of doing it.

You can justify not taking one. here and progressing with the guys you have or maybe trying to fire a guy in round two. If I had given you the option of one of the interior defensive line in here, do you think you would have taken one of them over Donovan Jackson? No, Derek Harmon is right about in this range for me. Kenneth Grant is right about in this range for me. Grant, I wouldn't say makes a ton of sense just because he's really heavily of the run defending type.

Obviously, that was a big problem for them this year. But I would hope that when the Bengals add to their defense attack room, they look for a little bit more pass rush juice. And I think. Especially after going to get Slayton and free agency. I mean, the one goes that you're missing. And again,

I think they're banking on Jenkins and McKinley Jackson getting more from them this year than they got last year. I think there's a lot of just relying on progress from some of your in-house draftees in a new scheme with the new defensive coordinator. We'll see how much of that is warranted and how much of that optimism is warranted. But it does feel like there's a decent amount of that coming out of the spin the

Bengals are trying to put on their free agency period. Which, and like, it's easy to be talking cheek about that because, A, some of these guys have played and have not been very good, right? And so, like, you're concerned about that. Obviously, like, the coaching staff change is a, uh, it is a big deal there, right? Lou Anirumo, who, like, I love Big Lou, you all have Big Lou. All the football podcasters love a Big Lou. Very complex defense.

A lot of thinking goes on in a Lou defense, especially for that back seven. And so some of those players, okay, let's simplify us to play a little faster. Let's see if these guys can turn their careers around. But the nature-develops young players. Like, if you look at the last five years of Cincinnati Bengals football, all of their best defensive players, essentially other than Jesse Bates, have been guys that they signed as free agents. Like, almost exclusively that has been the case.

And you would hope the tide turns on that a little bit. The defense I want to make for the Bengals is every team that enters like a contending window always comes to a season where it's like, all right, and now we trust the young guys, right? We got a little bit reload, mouthwash, so the cap settled down, and, you know, we're going to make compics this year. We, you know, let's see what the young guys have. The Eagles right now are doing a very similar thing, right? Eagles, no more James Bradbury, no more Darius leg, Gilear Ringo, show us what you got.

Milton Williams is gone. Morrow Jomo, solve a problem for us, right? Like, you, you, this is inevitable in the NFL. It's those, the Bengals certainly could have managed their roster and their extensions better than they did. That is absolutely true. But this conversation, whether it came in 24, or now in 25 or in 26,

was always going to happen with Cincinnati, where they were going to walk into the draft with a lot of needs and a lot of young players at those needs, and we would be saying, some of these guys are going to have to step up, because you don't have three first round picks, you only have the one.

I sort of agree with that. I think they could have signed two more starters and free agency in this off season if they wanted to. The defense I want to make for the Bengals is this. I will mend my previous statement. Logan Wilson was also an in-house draftee who was developed and signed a second contract. You can kind of say that about Jermaine Pratt.

I'm going to say Logan Wilson is more of a success story than that. But if you look at the other defensive players who have been big contributors to this team, when they've been playing good defense, we're talking about DJ Reeder, Trey Hendrickson, Mike Hilton, Chidobiae Wuzier, Von Bell, all of those guys drafted by other teams. Jesse Bates and Logan Wilson. And then B.J. Hill traded for.

So all of the guys that have been contributors for them and have earned more contracts out of this team for the most part were drafted by other teams. at some point, that is going to need to change for the Bengals to be successful. It feels stupid to say that. It feels self-evident. But the fact that it hasn't explains a lot of the chasm for where this team is and where they want to go. Lou Aniromo, man, not a rookie friendly defense. I'll tell you that.

I mean, the fact that he was so excited about getting Von Bell back last year, I think is all you need to know about what they want out of those defensive players. And again, there's a reason he's not there anymore. I think that he's a little bit of a scapegoat for how this has gone over the last couple years, but it is undeniable that they have not been able to develop those guys and they need more in that area specifically. The Seattle Seahawks, what an offseason it's been for the Seattle Seahawks. Very quickly, before we get into this, yay or nay on the Seattle Seahawks offseason compared to like the general consensus about it. Are you more or less pessimistic? I ranked them 31st out of 32

teams to their approach to free agency this year. And Seahawks fans have been hitting my lineup for the last couple of weeks on that. Oh, oh, you, you said the DeMarcus Lawrence contract was too big, but actually it's $10 million less than was reported. Buddy, I don't give a hoot. It's 2025. What are we doing? Man. The DeMarcus Lawrence contract wasn't as expensive as you originally thought is some real coping from a fan base this deep end free agency. That's not the good news you think it is. If the silver lining is we pay less for DeMarcus Lawrence than initially reported, that is a bad sign, man. Let's get to. to the Seahawks here.

Three options for the Seattle Seahawks. Option one, take Matthew Golden from Texas or whatever receiver you happen to like better than Matthew Golden that you want to drop into this group. Option two, you take the top interior offensive linemen available. That group is starting to dwindle here. Booker is really the last guy in that tier that you might take. Maybe I'm wrong about that. Maybe there's another interior player that you might take in this range.

But whatever interior offensive lineman you like. Option three. you take your cornerback of choice here to play the other outside cornerback spot. I don't know what your take on Josh Job is, but whatever it is may, whatever it is may influence whether or not you want to take a corner here. So Matthew Golden, top into your offensive linemen available or your cornerback of choice. Any other needs that you feel like are really pressing and are not available in those options that I missed? No, I am, I, Clint Kubiak was a really big dude tight.

and guy when he was the OCE of the Saints. I understand that, you know, Seahawks fans like, we have Noah fan. I think that you would probably like to improve on Noah fan. I like what I saw my AJ Barner last year. So like in the universes where one of Colson Loveland or Tyler Ward makes it down here, it didn't happen in this trap. But in those universes, I would say, man, watch out for that.

Like, I go different direction. That's fine. But I do think that that's viable. I really should be a response. So let's say the Miami Dolphins. want to move down and you're the Seattle Seahawks and you have a lot of draft picks

is that something you would do for the Seahawks? If after the off season he had John Schneider trades up in the first round for a tight end it would be the heat check of a generation man just who is driving this machine I would

that would be too much for me just because the hit rate of of tight end and some of the other needs on the roster that would be I love love and I love Warren I would like the outer part of me would like it like just like the football brain oh like go for it he's cool every like rational thought I would have

like this is terrible I just didn't want to extinguish your creativity in this exercise if that's something you wanted to do at least wanted to give you the option we couldn't redo the whole thing but just throwing it back out there two hour pods see the domino effects

the responsible thing to do is to take the interior offensive linemen I'm going to take Matthew Golden out of Texas I think that I think that golden is ideal like I think golden first is firstly if it's very nicely with jackson smith and jigba right people talk a lot oh he fits really well with cd lamb yeah same idea for me in smith and jigba where i want to be

able to get that player in the slot ideally uh and i can do that now obviously cooper cup is in the building and i think the cup's gonna play outside for them that's a little bit of a tricky thing but golden has i think that that vertical third ability a little bit of a fuel stretching ability to to create some space for smith and jsn is in the slot when jsn is in the slot and then i can also put golden in the slot and i can he's like you know he's he's he's got some toughness to him to make those catches over the middle of the field. And so I think the fit is very nice. I do think that Golden is ideally in the NFL not like your primary target getter.

I don't think he's the guy you want to lead your team in targets. And I think with the way they used JSN last year, obviously new staff, new quarterback and everything, JSN is the guy that they kind of want to funnel volume to. And then Golden makes the bigger pays and the splashier plays. To me that that fits his plays on his skill set a little bit better. At this pick here, 18, right? This is right around when like Zayflower started to go and Jordan Addison started to go a couple years ago. And to me, that's the sort of impact you can expect from a guy like Golden.

So to me, the value is appropriate. And they do objectively, like, again, Cup MVS. I know they added players. They got to add younger players and I think more talented and more athletic players to the wide receiver room. And so I'll take Golden. As I said, office line is the responsible thing. But this is in a way she performed the irresponsible thing because you do need to make an ad like this somewhere at Passcatcher early in the draft. You look at the Cooper Cup contract. It's three years 45, but only 17 and a half of that is guaranteed. It's an $8 million debt cap it if they move on from him next year. They save $9 million against the cap. So this is something where it might just be a one year thing with Cooper Cup. And I think the Cooper

Cup and MVS moves are we need to make sure we have the requisite amount of past catchers and certain specific skill sets in the offense. I don't think either of them are preventing you from drafting a receiver in round one if you want to. Ideally, if this is where you go if you're the Seahawks, do you try to find your interior offensive linemen with one of those second round picks? Do you feel like there are enough guys available in that range where what you come away with here is better than drafting the lineman here in a receiver in round two? Yes, I do. I think that interior offensive line is kind of the most classic spot where I feel like, all right, I have the ability to go and get guys outside

of round one and feel like I can find impactful starters, right? I think that both the Georgia kids, Tate Ratledge and Jared Wilson are players that you can look at. Those are, I think, probably a little bit more round three guys. But if you're talking about them round two, I don't hate either one of those. Mark. Mark, Marcus Bough, who's the guard out of Purdue. He's a tackle prospect, probably going to play guard at the NFL level. I think that's a pretty classic Seahawk term in that big boxy frame, right? That wider guard sort of a style.

So there are dudes. You think that changes a little bit with the new coaching staff? It should. My confidence in the Seahawks front office, if I've made it clear so far in this podcast, my confidence in them doing some of the logical things has wanged dramatically over the last couple of years, especially when it comes to the offensive line. And so, yeah, like I could very much. see them right going for the smaller guy, the shifter guy.

That's more your Rattlerge and your Wilson, the Georgia kids, if you're talking in the interior. Any needs on defense that you feel like we're not talking or thinking enough about when it comes to the Seattle Seahawks? So the second linebacker spot next to Ernest Jones is a spot that's been talked about. And obviously Jones had health problems. And so maybe it's the first linebacker spot. I get why they like Tyrese Knight. He played a lot of ball for them in his rookie season, walked out there, was clearly drowning when he first had a

to play out there. Then Ernest Jones gets traded. But Ernest Jones gets traded for, right? And all of a sudden, Ernest kind of calms everybody down. He's the veteran in the room. And you saw the light bulb for night every single week. Just a couple fewer mental mistakes, a couple quicker plays. Like, all right, like, I'm getting what he's figuring out.

I know you can see that happening live. So I understand why they feel good about him. I think that you probably don't mind making another, right? He was a round four pick, another round three round four pick at linebacker in case Jones goes down in case night takes a step back. So that's there. And then, yeah, like outside corner two is a legitimate need. Josh Job, who, like, you know, I said, Eagles great. But still, this has been like a career special teamer.

they have him and Shamar I can't remember his name but they have a free agent who they added as well as kind of just like you know depth guys so yeah like a corner in round one

Shamar Jean Charles thank you yes is yes I wouldn't mind a corner in round one said it now four times I'm gonna say it again not for me at 18

much more for me at 28 with the way this class is built so let's say who's picking 28th in this draft all right this is a very good this is a very good

Quantan can't it for this. Let's say it's 27. It's the Baltimore Ravens. And you are John Schneider. And you have as somebody with a million picks in this draft, you're picking at 50, but you also have 92. How are you feeling about moving up from 50 to 27 and given 92 to

the Ravens in order to get your corner there? Moving up 23 picks into the first round is once again an unbelievable heat check from Schneider. I like how words making Schneider more and more unhinged in his approach. They've got so many picks here. I'm just tempted to have them throw them around, at least a little bit.

I'd want to know what, you know, picks 20 through 26 look like, right? If I watched two corners go off the board and my guy's still there, all right, we're a little bit needy, right? But I think there's a lot of drafts where we get to the end of round one. There's a lot of universes and like, of the top 15 players remaining in the top of round two, like four of those guys are corners. Remember last year where like Kool-Aid went, Camarie Lasseter went, Cooper DeGine went, like it was just, okay, there's this group of corners we all thought, maybe end around one,

none of them happened to go for whatever reason, different needs. Porter was the 33rd pick in the draft. Yeah. Yeah. I think you can see that dense group in the, right, in the mid-high 30s, and then you'll see, right, like the Eagles traded up for Dijin last year to get in front of the Packers to go get that guy. That's where I would more so expect Seattle to make the trade as opposed to the end around.

Gotcha. Okay. That makes sense. But you think hunting for that corner from picks 33 to 40 is something that you would probably try to do if you're Seattle, especially if you're taking the receiver at 18. Yep. And Seattle would not be far from the only team that I would expect to do that, just given the way that this corner class works.

out. All right. Well, I think we've fixed all the teams that we talked about here. All six teams. Six for six, dude. Let's go. All right. I'm not going to read off all of the pick. Ain't what? F***. Here we go. Here are the 18 picks we have so far. One breath. At one, Cam Ward to the Titans. At two, Shador Sanders to the Browns. At three, Travis Hunter to the Giants. At four, Abdul Carter to the Patriots. At five, Mason Graham to the Jags. At six, Will Johnson to the Raiders. At seven, Armamemamon to the Jets. At eight, in a trade with the Panthers, the Niners go up for Will Campbell from LSU. At 9, the Saints Pit Tech McMillan from Arizona. At 10, Ashton Genty to the Bears. At 11, the Panthers Pick Tower Warren from Penn State. 12, Jalen Walker goes to the Cowboys. 13, use of your picks now.

Kelvin Banks goes to the Miami Dolphins. At 14, Colson Loveland, tight end from Michigan, goes to the Colts. At 15, Mike Green Edge from Marshall goes to Atlanta. At 16, the Cardinals take Jehad Campbell from Alabama. At 17, the Bengals take Jonathan Jackson from Ohio State. And at 18, the Seattle Seah get Matthew Golden from Texas. You feel pretty good about that? Yeah, Donovan Jackson's going to be the eyeball razor, but he's one of my guys. And I get to make the call for the Bengals,

and thank goodness for the Bengals, because that's a good guard right there. All right. That's all we got. Benjamin, tell people where they can check out what you're doing these days. Yeah. ESPN NFL, so ESPN.com is where all my draft writing will be.

Meena Kime show featuring Lenny doing the pod. I'll be on the live, the YouTube draft show for ESPN day one and day two. So if you're turning on the TV and you're finding Mel, that's not me. you got to go on the internet, go to the YouTube, and then that's where I'll be. All right. Appreciate it, buddy.

Always good to do this stuff. Thank you, Robert. Talk to you soon. All right, guys, that's all we got. Appreciate you listening. Thank you to Ben for his time. We will be back tomorrow with Dane Bruegler and Derek Klasson. We're doing the most polarizing, divisive, you name your adjective, players in the 2025

draft class. We're going to talk about 10 to 12 guys that maybe Dane's a little bit higher on the consensus, that maybe he's gone back and forth about. We're going to pick his. about that stuff. Like I mentioned, Dana's going to be with us twice a week all the way up through the draft. And that does not include the multiple live draft shows we were doing on nights one and night two. So please be on the lookout for those. For now, that's all we got. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you very soon.