The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - On the Clock, picks 19-25: The playoff teams have entered the chat

Episode Date: April 15, 2025

We're back On the Clock on this episode of The Athletic Football Show. Trevor Sikkema from Pro Football Focus joins Robert Mays to make picks 19 through 25 in the 2025 NFL Draft. That brings us our first batch of last season's playoff teams, including the Buccaneers, Broncos, Steelers, Chargers, Packers, Vikings and Texans. The Buccaneers make a statement at EDGE! The Steelers and Chargers grab receivers! The Packers add a corner! Come and join the draft fun.Host: Robert MaysCo-Host: Derrik KlassenWith: Trevor SikkemaExecutive Producer: Michael BellerProducer: Michael BellerSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTubeFollow Robert on Bluesky: @robertmays.bsky.socialFollow Derrik on Bluesky: @qbklass.bsky.socialFollow Trevor on Bluesky: @tampabaytre.bsky.socialFollow Robert on X: @robertmaysFollow Derrik on X: @QBKlassFollow Trevor on X: @TampaBayTreTheme song: HauntedWritten by Dylan Slocum, Trevor Dietrich, Ruben Duarte, Kyle McAulay, and Meredith VanWoert / Performed by Spanish Love SongsCourtesy of Pure Noise / By arrangement with Bank Robber Music, LLC Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. It is edition four of on the clock today. We are breaking down picks 19 through 25 with Trevor Sycamma from Pro Football Focus. If you guys have missed the first three versions of this show, concept is pretty simple. I give the guest three options for each team's pick. We've done this for every single pick of the first round and they've built on themselves. So it's essentially one long first round mocked.

draft. That's it. And this choice is made based on who this person would pick if they were in the chair. Not what they think the team would do, but if it were up to them, this is the pick that I would make. This was a fascinating stretch. We're getting into the playoff teams now. These teams are better. It seems like there aren't as many pressing needs. So there's just a wider range of guys who might be available. I mean, Trevor and I truly broke down every single possible position for each of these seven teams and which way they might go. So this is a conversation about team needs, about how the contours of this draft look. The Broncos conversation is a perfect example.

We're talking about maybe drafting O'Marion Hampton at 20 instead of an interior defensive lineman, but do you feel better about the running backs who might be available in the second round? And so is that a reason that you go for one of these higher upside interior pass rusher? So a lot of those sorts of conversations today, I've loved doing this exercise, and I especially loved doing it with Trevor today. Before we get into that, though, just wanted to remind you guys a week from Thursday, live in Chicago, the athletic football show's draft show, me, Dane Bruegler, Derek Classen, and Bruce Feldman, which I am still so excited about. We've done this

each of the last several years. We're blown it out even bigger this year. If you want to come hang out with us, watch the first round live. We'd absolutely love that. We're going to be acting to every single pick. Obviously, you have Dane's knowledge, you know, Bruce providing the context on what these guys were as college players. You know, Derek has really dug into the draft. So please come check us out. I know you're going to have the TV out in the background, but if you want to spend some time with us that night, we would really appreciate it. We're doing it night one and night two. No Bruce on night two, but we're still going to have me, Derek and Dane, breaking down all of the picks in rounds one and two. That is going to be coming to you guys live on YouTube. Please be on the

lookout for all of the details surrounding that show. They're going to trickle out here over the next week or so. Right now, though, let's get to that conversation with Trevor Sycambe about picks 19 through 25 right now with on the clock. It is time for the next installments of our on the clock series here on the athletic football show. For those of you who are unfamiliar, this is what we've been doing over the last three weeks. This is our fourth one of these, which is crazy to think about. Each week, we've gotten six picks. I've had a draft expert or a draft enthusiast on however you want to define yourselves.

I've given them three options for all of the teams as we've gone through the first round. We've done the first 18 picks of the first round. I'm not going to list all of them off now. I think that's probably a futile exercise. But when we talk about some of these guys, we'll mention who's been picked, who's still available. Here to help me with version number four, it is the lead draft analyst at Pro Football Focused and the co-host of the NFL Stock Exchange podcast. It's Trevor.

Trevor, really good to have you back, man. Thanks for doing this. Robert, I appreciate you having me on. As fate would have it, we're starting this exercise with my Tampa Bay Buccaneer. So a little easy, you know, it's like when you get your stuff, when you get to like make a layup right off the bat, like right when the game starts, it's like, okay, I know this really well. Now we're getting into the confidence of some of these other teams. But this is a really cool exercise. I love the way that you have set this up.

And I appreciate you. Let me be a part of it. I want to make it clear that that's totally circumstantial. I know that you're a huge Bucks fan. And it was just totally because we were moving some stuff around. Ben Solac was being a real diva about his scheduling. And so we had to move a couple things. I also want you to know he tried to allow trades outside of his little pocket in part just to make it harder on you when you got to your pick.

So even from afar, he was trying to mess with you. That's what good friends do. That's truly what good friends do. So honestly, I appreciate that he was going for that. But I also appreciate, you know, you're standing your ground and saying, Ben, you can't control this, this is not your show, no. The problem is if we got outside of the individual show, I would just lose complete control. I am going to offer you a trade for one of these. And even that, it's hard to follow the flowchart about what happens when we deal one of these

picks and all right, well, now the options for when that team is on the clock are going to have be a little bit different. I'm not nearly mentally agile enough to do that. So we're trying to keep things as simple as we possibly can here. It does make the trade sort of conversation. like fun to have this year because, you know, even just, I'm not just naming them because he's the buck general manager. It's really just the quote that I read yesterday or a couple of days ago. Somebody asked him about trading up and back because Jason Light always wants to do this. But in this draft in particular, what he said is like, you know, there's not a lot of guys in this draft outside of, you know, maybe the top five where you go, okay, this is a very coveted piece. I'm going to have all of these people wanting to move up to my spot.

And he's like, yeah, of course, like there's a lot of GMs that want to trade down. but as the phrase goes, it takes two to tango. And I'm just not sure that we're going to get a lot of partners with these teams that might want to trade back. But it'll make for an interesting night one, night two for sure. And as we move into this set of teams, I think it's important to keep that in mind. And there are a couple other kind of larger big picture things to consider as we talk about these teams specifically.

These are the playoff teams. We're starting the playoff teams here. These are the teams that theoretically have fewer kind of screaming needs or huge holes as maybe the teams closer to the top of the draft. So this is a little bit wider in terms of the range, and you're going to have more options because I think you could justify more positions for all of these teams

because the overall roster strength is a little bit better. So compared to the top of the draft, where it was like, all right, you can draft Sejura Sanders, Travis Hunter, Abdul-Carter. It's you can draft one of these three positions, which flavor do you like? So there's going to be a lot of that today where you're going to have a bigger sandbox to play

in than some of the other people who have done this exercise so far. And I do think that it's, It's sometimes funny. Like fans will go like, well, you know, look at the Ravens and the Steelers and the Packers. Like, you know, they always just pick best player available and like look what happens. It's like, yeah, because they never pick in the top 10. Like they never have these.

They're very well-run organization. So I think it is, there's always the proper amount of context that you have to have when looking at how teams go about the draft and trying to set up a blueprint print for yourself. But it is worth noting that sort of playoff. I think lens in which we are looking through what these teams are doing for the draft and sort of how it is different than those teams in the top 10. I didn't,

I said I wasn't going to do this. I am going to do it just so people understand before we dig into this. Who is not available and who is? Just so people aren't screaming at their phones. Like, well, why didn't you throw this guy out there? Here are the guys who've been drafted so far. I'm going to do this as fast as I possibly can. I'm not even going to say the teams.

Cam Ward, Shadur, Sanders, Travis Hunter, Abdul Carter, Mason Graham, Will Johnson, Armand Membo, Will Campbell, Tet McMillan, Ashton Genty, Tyler Warren, Jalen Walker, Kelvin Banks, Colston Loveland, Mike Green, Jihad Campbell, Donovan Jackson, Matthew Golden. So if I don't mention one of those players, that's why they've already been picked. We're trying to do this as like one single first round mock draft. Those guys are not available.

Let's get to your Tampa Bay Buccaneers picking 19th here. Option one, even after signing Hassan Reddick, you can draft the top edge rusher on your board. This is going to be interesting for you because the PFF board, which you have obviously a lot of input on, has some guys a little bit higher than some of the consensus boards. So typically I would say, you know, you can take Mike L. Williams or Shemar Stewart. But you're higher on James Pearson, the B.C. kid than maybe some other people are. So I'm just giving you your choice, top edge rusher, whoever you want to go with it. Option two, draft Judi-Beran.

He's number seven on the PFF board. I assume he's your top corner available. I want to have some specific players in here when I can. So Judi Barron, number two choice for you. Number three, draft Malachi Stark's. He is number nine on the PFF Big Board. Again, somebody who's a little bit higher than some of these other rankings might have him. So those are your three options.

You can draft the top edge rusher on your board, Judi Barron, the cornerback from Texas, or Malachi Stark's, the safety from Georgia. We can talk through some of these after you make your choice, but which direction do you want to go? Yeah, so I'd be taking Donovan as Raku here, even with him being a little bit lower on my board. the edge rusher from Boston College that you mentioned,

even though he's a little bit lower on my board than I believe Malachi Starks on Jada Barron are. To me, this is the area in which they have to attack the most. And it's even more so than the pastures production, which he had 21 tackles for lost, 16 and a half sacks this past year, also had a really good sophomore year two years ago when it came to that overall production. He's also a great run defender. Three straight years where he has graded above an 80 in run defense, despite being a little bit smaller of a prospect for an edge rush.

sure he's so fundamentally sound and where he places his hands and how he anchors his lower half and just the technique and how great of a run defender he is there he understands hey when i need to hold the line of scrimmage when i need to be an attacker and try to you know run defend by getting into the backfield which some guys will he's got a good blend of both of those things and so he's just in my opinion the total package of what they need and obviously assigning cassan reddick i think was great for them definitely was a surprise for me but reddick to me he's still a little bit of an in theory, right? It's been so long since we saw him really produce at the level in which you would say, okay, no, no, no, no, they got Hassan Reddick. They don't need

another edge rusher. It's been a little bit since he's been that type of a player. And I think he could be a splash guy for them. But if you now at least have an edge rush room, which was bad last year of Hassan Reddick, Donovan Azaraku, Yaya Diabbi, and Chris Braswell from Alabama. People forget they drafted him last year as well as a developmental guy. Those four, I think you feel pretty dang good about, about these waves of pass rushers and situational pass rushing that you could have in any in any time. So I would go with him here. The secondary is tempting because I think the secondary was also not just a letdown, but also thin. You know, they had a couple of corners go down last year and it was just like they were starting guys that were barely rosterable and

they were playing them in the playoffs. And I think that what we saw Jaden Daniels due to the secondary is something to at least allow you to consider cornerback here at this position. Jad A. Barron as an off-zone corner is sort of of Todd Bulls kind of staple, although I think he likes to play a little bit more press than Jada Barron does, but that's sort of how I got to this conversation. I was wondering if you'd be tempted by it,

because I know you like him, and I think schematically, it might make a little bit of sense, but I think it also depends on how you see some of the younger pieces in the secondary. Like if you think part of Barron's appeal is that he can play the nickel for you, he can move around a little bit. Tyke Smith played pretty.

well last year. You don't want to take him off the field. So outside corner feels like more of a immediate need, but also kind of a longer term need. Like we'll see how long Jamal Dean is there, etc. So I think Barron, even if in theory he does make a little bit of sense for this team, some of the other pieces they have might dissuade you from that a little bit, even as somebody who really likes him. Yeah, I think like Will Johnson, who I know went sixth overall in this mock, like he's a little bit more tempting because to me he plays really well as an off zone corner, but you can also feel decent about him being in press coverage. It's just not really Barron's thing.

Like you mentioned, his value comes more from his versatility than it does just strictly what he's able to do as an outside corner. You know, when it comes to Barron, like the Rams at 26, the bills at 30, like excellent scheme fits, in my opinion, for exactly what Barron does as an off-coverage type of a corner. But for Tampa, he's somewhat of a fit, but not enough of a home run fit to say you would take him over in Azaraku or somebody. like that. So that's ultimate. I think this team is also going to be extremely high on both Jailam Walker

and Jihad Campbell, who neither of which are on the board here at this point. But if one of them makes it to 19, I think they probably draft one of them because linebacker was also really bad for them last year. And as just a little nugget, look out for Carson Swessinger for them in the second round because I think that that is going to be a target for them. The only reason I didn't even bring up linebackers because both of the guys that could be drafted in this range were not available. But positional, I think that does make a ton of sense. I wanted to throw Starks out there, honestly, just to gauge your interest on him and just the idea of like playing him next to Antoine Winfield. Just like the thought of it, whether it would be tempting to you, I was curious about that.

Yeah, I mean, 100%. Like, honestly, I would lean, I would lean Starks as my next option, like after Azaraku. I would have Ezraku, and then I know we talked Joday Barron because I wanted to sort of talk about why I didn't go with him despite the corner need. But Malachi Stark is just, okay, he's not the generational player that maybe people thought that he was going to be going into this year, but he's still a really great player. I genuinely think he's an NFL starter as a free safety, as a roaming safety, and as a slot player. He struggles a little bit in the slide just because he's not as quick twitch as some of these other top tier NFL slot defenders are.

But he does his best work when you allow him to play back in space. He understands how to manipulate space very well, anticipate space, very well to make plays on the ball or warrant no throws, just give those quarterbacks that like split second of doubt. He's so good at doing that to opposing quarterback. So I love starts. I'm still a big fan. I know some people sort of have him drifting towards the back end of the first round, early part of the second round. But in terms of an overall talent, I still think that he is a top 12 player in this class. Bypassing guys like Micah Williams, Shemar Stewart, how much of a difference is there with

Azaraku and those guys to you? Because I know you're not as big of a fan as some other people might be just based on some of the question marks production-wise, the idea that they're more ideas than they are actual players in principle right now. Yeah, for as much as those guys are both young, and you certainly don't want to say like, oh, they've achieved their ceiling already. I have become more skeptical as time has gone on as a draft analyst about guys just figuring it out at the NFL when we haven't seen it in college. You know, we sit here and we go, look at how incredibly athletic and just incredibly gifted

Shamar Stewart is, you just take this guy and figure it out later. I'm not really with that anymore. People told me that with Tyree Wilson. People told me that with Lucas Van Ness. And it's just like, we don't, we love to talk about what could be for players, but I don't think we're as honest as we are hopeful when we talk about just these athletic alien type of especially pass rushers. And it's these guys who, if they don't really show it to you at the college level,

it does not get easier in the pros. These guys are bigger, faster, stronger. Not only that, but these offensive tackles in the league that are starting are so technically sound. They're so good at watching film. They know your strength and weaknesses just as well as you do. So you've got to be able to be a master of what you do and what they do. And I just haven't seen that from either of those guys. I think they're great run defenders.

I think they are naturally, incredibly strong football players. If you need guys who can elevate your floor and run defense, Mike L. Williams and Shmar Stewart are there for you. And the best part is that you do get to maybe believe a little bit of the upside of their pass rush. But it's hard for me to take either of those guys over a guy who is absolutely proven it already in Ezrako. I was going to ask who were your scarring moments that have pushed you in this direction. But you gave me a couple of those examples. Any positions I didn't mention that you have kind of in the back of your mind for this team. There weren't any others that

really jumped out. Like maybe if you want to draft a succession plan, a receiver at some point, but in the first round, that feels a little bit rich. Any other spots you've been considering as a fan that we haven't even mentioned at all? Yeah. I mean, maybe guard for this team. You know, they bring back Ben Bredesen, but it's like, okay, well, is he the long-term answer guard? Do you feel like you wouldn't be able to upgrade there? Like, for example, Gray's Able, I think is still on the board here at this point.

Like, Jason loves like those types of play. He basically drafted the exact same guy in Graham Barton last year. So we've seen sort of the return on investment that you get for those sort of players. He's Jason's type. That's like the sneakiest one where I go, maybe, I think Hodi Mockoff better last year, but like, do they think that Grace Able is like a future pro bowl guard in waiting? Because if you do,

then I think you actually do think about it there at 19. But that's sort of, I'm with you. I can't see receiver. Mike's got at least two years left. You just signed Chris Godwin. J.L. McMillan-Mcillan played well down the stretch last year. Sterling Shepherd and Baker Mayfield have a pretty good connection. Trey Palmer,

maybe you get something from him as a vertical threat, but like, you've got a, you've got a good starting five that you feel about there. It would be a major luxury, in my opinion, for them to take a receiver at 19. I feel the same way. I mean, Bradson's contract is actually a little bit richer than you might think at first glance.

I mean, he has a $10 million dead cap hit after this year. So that really is kind of a two-year commitment for him at left guard. So it doesn't surprise me at all to see you go that direction. All right. Let's get to the Denver Broncos picking 20th. Option one for the Denver Broncos. Yep. You draft Omerian Hampton.

You can make the case for another running back if you want, but that's the one I'm going throw out there, Marion Hampton from North Carolina. Option two, the Broncos are hard. This was a difficult one for me because they do not have a lot of huge needs. They filled a lot of them in free agency. Linebacker safety, tight end. And so I was trying to get a little bit creative here looking at maybe the next two, three year window for this team.

So the second option is you draft your best available interior defensive linemen. Kenneth Grant, Walter Nolan, Derek Harmon, Zach Allen and John Franklin Myers are both free agents after this season. So if they want a little bit of optionality there, obviously Zach Allen played really well for them last year. But just a spot that maybe is a quieter need over a two to three year period than we might think while looking at the depth chart. Option three, again, I didn't really know where to go with this. Wildcard. Whatever you want to do, if you want to double down on a position somewhere, if there's something maybe the general public isn't thinking enough about,

when you look at a write-up of the Broncos needs, it's not one of the first things that comes to mind. but for whatever reason you can see that player on this team, that can be a Luther burden, a Malachi Stark's, a Gray's Able if you want to. Luke Wanberg is hitting free agency after this season. You know, Ben Powers may be getting a little bit more expensive than you want him to be. So just a spot that maybe we're not thinking about with the Broncos.

So Omerian Hampton option one, interior defensive lineman option two, wild card, choose your own adventure option three. What are you doing if you're Denver? Yeah, Broncos have really put together a pretty good rock. honestly. Not that it's perfect, but it's why I love the landing spot for Bo Nix last year when it happened, because I feel like a lot of the rest of it was there and their defense only got better. They were top 10, if not top five in a lot of other categories. Adding Talanova Hufanga and Drake Greenlaw only increases that this year.

I think they can be a top three defense. I think they're missing, depending on how you look at Cortland Sutton, I think they're at least missing a wide receiver too, right? Like Marvin Mims, Devon Bailey, Troy Franklin. those guys to me are like all good options as wide receiver threes. I still think they need a wide receiver two. So if I had like a, you know, if I had that wild card pick, I'm pretty sure we didn't, nobody drafted Luther Burton, right? No.

Tets off the board. Matthew Golden's off the board. Luther Burton is my wide receiver two in this draft anyway. So like I would think about him there. And then when it comes to defensive tackle, I think you hit the nail on ahead there with the defensive tackle spot because not just John Franklin Meyer and Zach Allen, Malcolm Roach as well. Another guy who's a rotational dude

who could play nose for them who is also an unrestricted free agent next year. So a lot of changes are coming there. They're not going to bring all those guys back. Kenneth Grant, Walter Nolan, absolutely two spots there you think about. With,

God, how many picks do they have? They have first, second, third, fourth, three, sixth. Okay, so they have their original first four picks. I'm going to go with Walter Nolan here. Oh, man, I like it. Walter Nolan is my number eight overall player that I have on my most recent big board that I published. And the reason why is because he is not Jalen Carter, but there's too much Jalen Carter from what I see from Walter Nolan to not just go, especially in this class.

Yeah, yeah, give me this guy. Like, give me this guy in the top. I'd take him like if the Bears wanted an interior defensive lineman at 10, like I consider him at 10. Now I know they have other options. I keep thinking about it. I keep thinking about interior defensive line. As I played out the scenarios more and more, the idea of either trading down a little bit from 10

or just drafting an interior defensive lineman there, I think you can make a really serious argument. I like Derek Harmon. Like Derek Harmon is like the guy I've loved the most. And so whoever your flavor is at that position, I think you can make a really serious argument for that team. And all of these guys, like I don't think it's hard to make a case that Walter Nolan has best.

better upside as a pass rusher than guys like Michael Williams and Shamar Stewart who are being talked about like these super high upside pass rushers. I don't think it's hard to get there. I really don't. And when you look at Walter Nolan, okay, 11% passers win percentage is past here. It's not great. Now again, I'll say like he's not as big and long as Jalen Carter, which matters. He wasn't as proficient of a pass rusher when Jalen Carter was coming in the league as Jalen Carter was. It's why I'm not trying to say that he's exactly that. But there's a little bit of it. Like the physical gifts, I was watching just because I was going through rechecks and everything over the last like two, three weeks. I'm watching guys in the top 100 and then some other guys too.

I watched an extra game of Walter Nolan because his interior defensive line class, there's so many good ones. You mentioned Kenneth Grant, Mason Graham, Walter Nolan, Derek Harmon, Darius Alexander, T.J. Sanders. Like, there's just so many great interior defensive linemen. So getting the right order of those guys was important to me. I watched the Wake Forest game. Ole Miss played Wake Forest. There is a play where Nolan is lined up as a. hand in the dirt, three technique, defensive tackle.

So he wasn't coming from a stand-up position. He didn't have a runway into the guard. The ball is snapped. He takes two steps and he generates so much power with two steps. He gets up and into the guard, throws the guard back so far on a bull rush that the guard literally runs into the running back as the running back is getting the ball for a handoff and the play is over. The running back goes down. He tackled the running back.

back with the guard. And now again, we're not talking, this dude didn't have a runway. This is a middle linebacker coming with like six steps to just get full speed. He goes one, two, forklifts this dude straight into his running back. And it's plays like that that make you go, yeah, man, let me bet on this guy. So I would go with Walter Nolan here because it's a, it's a great setup as well. You still have John Franklin Meyer. You still have Zach Allen. You still have Malcolm Roach. And you can allow Walter Nolan to be exactly what he was at Ole Miss. And advantageous situations and you can continue to develop him in his rookie year to where he's able to take over the next year and beyond. So that's why I'm going to go with him at 20.

I totally understand that. I think there was a play in the Arkansas game where he was just immediately in the backfield and just making a tackle. And I was just like, oh my God. It was like in the first or two, your driver or two. And I expect, and I guess my issue with him is I kind of expected to see more of that. When you see those sorts of flashes, I wish I saw more of them. And my only other issue with Nolan is he's kind of a wild horse. Like he's kind of kind of all over the place a little bit too often for me. And that's why for Harmon, again, we talked about this a little bit last week on a show where I kind of like the guys where there's less imagination necessary.

And with Harmon, to me, there's just less imagination necessary. He's just a sturdier player than a guy like Nolan. But the flashes from Nolan are absolutely undeniable. And so to me, the question for me, and I guess the Broncos are going to have to play this out as well at 20, is your thought, I can get a running back in the second round that is close enough to Hampton to, for me, to feel good about that. And I think the gap between no one and the defensive tackles I can get in the second round is too big for me to justify passing on him here. It is, yes. That's ultimately sort of

what I come down to here when it comes to why I'd be waiting on a running back. You still have pick number 51 and I think pick 51 is ripe for Quinchon Jenkins, for Trayvon Henderson, for Dylan Samson, for Caleb Johnson, for R.J. Harvey, for whoever you like there at number 51. And then even if you waited to the third round, there's going to be guys, a DJ Giddens. at Devin Neal, like a Jaden Blue. Again, maybe if R.J. Harvey makes to you in the third round, which I think that he very well could. Like, there's just too many opportunities where you could get a really good running back in this class.

I understand it feels good to just draft one at 20 and then not have to think about it anymore. But if you're actually building the best draft strategy, in my opinion, it does start with addressing the trenches in the first round and then allowing whatever running back that you like to fall to you at 51 and making that pick there. I think all that makes sense. All that tracks. I'm totally fine with this. I know you're tempted at the idea of dropping Luther Burtain into that offense. 100% I am.

Because his skill set with Sutton, because we can say that Marvin Mims kind of gives you a little bit of that. I still think Marvin Mims is probably more of a gimmick than Luther Burdon would be, where Luther Baird is like a fully realized version of some of that after the catch stuff that you can get with Marvin Mims. And Mims can just be, you know, some design touches guy. He can be a vertical threat for you a little bit. It feels like a more fully realized version of what they got for Mims last year. And the idea of having that guy be an every down factor in your offense rather than

something you sprinkle in three or four times a game, that's tempting if you're Sean Peyton and if you're that offensive staff. It is for me at least. Yeah. And I think that Luther Burton, I wonder if I will have him go off the board here, you know, throughout this exercise. But he's getting a bad rap for 20, 20, 24 season. And like, there are some people out there who go, okay, well,

look at all those touches in 2024. They're all like gimmicky touches. They're, you know, pre-snap motion stuff. They're orbit motion. It's screens, slants. It's like, it's just a lot of people look at it. And they go like, okay, this is not translatable to the NFL. I agree.

Go watch the 2023 tape. It's like it's so much more real NFL stuff in my opinion. And even the 2024 stuff, he's still winning. His offense just stinks. So like there's a lot that goes into like, okay, well, he wasn't ever really a vertical threat. defenses know that he's not really getting over top of them because they weren't really going to take those deep shots.

Everything like I was saying was sort of manufactured for him. I can't not watch how this guy changes direction with the ball in his hands and think that he can't also be that as a separator and a route runner. Get Luther Burden a good wide receiver coach at the NFL level and it's curtains. I think that he becomes one of the best separators in the NFL if he gets with a good wide receiver's coach. He still needs to improve. He's not quite there yet.

But like you said, Cortland Sutton, Luther Burden, and then that plethora of wide receiver threes, it's an excellent buffet. And you throw Evan Ingram in there as well, buffet to be able to throw two for Bonnex. All right, before we get to the Steelers at 21, we're going to take a quick break.

Here we go. Pittsburgh Steelers, picking 21st overall. Option one for the Steelers. Draft your DiBaron if he's available. They still need a nickel corner. Darius lays on a one-year contract. I think you could easily justify this based on the current makeup of the Steelers secondary. Option two is draft Luther Burden if he's available or your next best wide receiver if there's

somebody else that's tempting to you here. Even after the Metcalf trade, I still think that there's a redundancy of skill sets in that receiver room. And George Pickens is a free agent after the season. I think George Pickens is a guy who could very well be available for trade this summer if the Steelers went a certain direction with one, well, with their first pick. They don't have a second round pick. But if Luther Burden ends up on the Steelers, I'd be calling him.

about George Pickens if I had an appetite for frustrating talent, I guess is how I would frame it. Option three, and this is the fun one, draft the quarterback. I'm not even saying which quarterback it has to be. You pick whatever direction you want to go. You take a quarterback here at 21. And option four, because this is the spot that made the most sense to me. I don't know why. You can trade down 225 with Houston, who would be coming up in this situation to

come get Josh Simmons. So you have four options if you were the Steelers. What are you doing? You get an extra third round pick if you move from 25 to 21. Sure. I mean, I like that move for Houston. I don't know if...

I think this is a good scenario to throw out because I think, you know, with Shudor or not on the board, I think a lot of Steelers fans would probably look to trade down. Houston's an interesting one because I think the only real threat to take an offensive linemen in general

before them is Minnesota. I don't think the Chargers do it. I suppose they could. If the Chargers do it, it's probably an interior offensive line. And so that's a little bit less scary to you. Green Bay wouldn't do it. Yeah, Green Bay wouldn't do it. Probably not if they're going to move Morgan to left tackle.

Minnesota would. Probably interior though if you're Minnesota, right? And so that's the argument is that if you're Houston, and you probably aren't going to worry about a tackle being drafted in front of you based on the makeup of those teams drafting ahead of you. Maybe it could be wrong. But there's not like a screaming need to tackle with any of those teams drafting from 19 to 24. But there's not.

But then you look at like, okay, you know, Washington, Kansas City, like those two teams picking after you at 2931. There's nothing stopping them from calling the Pittsburgh Steelers to go to 21. So I think it was worth sort of like having that discussion there. I feel good about the offensive tackles that are left, so I'm not going to make that move with Houston, although I'm glad that we brought it up and just talked about it. The Steelers quarterback situation is, I don't know, very,

like, I'm curious to what you think of this. If I'm the Steelers, I'm telling Aaron Rogers, your contracts either signed like next Monday, the Monday of draft week, or we're done. Like, we're moving on. Because we have to operate the draft as if, like, we don't have a quarterback, right? But do you, though?

And I guess that's my thing. If you don't like any of these guys enough to draft them 21st or even at the back half of the first round and you have the scar tissue of drafting Kenny Pickett because you had to. Do you have to go into this draft knowing if Aaron Rogers is your quarterback because you don't have that many options to draft one in the first two rounds, especially if you know going in,

we don't like these guys anyway? Do you want to be in a spot where you have to draft a quarterback and should Aaron Rogers be affecting that at all? I think you can make an argument it shouldn't if you're the Steelers. Yeah. I guess there are two sides of the coin. I think the part of this that would make me the most mad if I was the Steelers is like if we let this go until draft day and then 21 comes around and there's no quarterback

that we want. We don't have a second round pick. Then all of a sudden like you're giving Rogers more leverage like in this situation and that would just piss me off probably if I was going about this. So maybe that's, I think you can make an argument though for Pittsburgh that you probably shouldn't be taking any of these quarterbacks to the third round anyway

and the presence of Aaron Rogers doesn't affect that in any meaningful manner. That's fair. That's fair. And again, so what I would do mock draft, I'm not taking a quarterback here because I don't think any of them were worth it.

If I was taking one, like if it was like, all right, you got to take a quarterback here for Pittsburgh. They're desperate. I'd take Milro. I would take Jalen Milro and I would just bet on the town. You guys just did it on PFF this morning.

Right. Yeah, I would just, that is, that is what I would do there. I would just take the chance. That's what I would do. So, not taking the quarterback, though. It was, if it's those three options, I think I've taken Luther Burton. Because again, I like Jaday Barron, but this team plays more press and more man than I would want Barron to play. So if it's quarterback, baron, or a wide receiver, I would be taking Luther Burton, which would set up a hilarious saga incoming of what was going to happen with George Pickens.

What is the position or the player that you wished I'd mentioned that I didn't for Pittsburgh that you have in mind? It seems like you feel limited by these options, which is on me. The safer one is a sneaky one, and to me that's interior defensive line. because for as much as Cam Hayward is the ageless wonder and he's unbelievable. You lose Larry O'Ginjobie. You don't really have anybody else other than Cam Hayward and Keanu Benton. And I just, it sort of comes down to what they think of Benton. And like, do they think Benton is the Cam Hayward replacement?

Because if you do, then I could understand them being more flexible here at number 21 because they feel like they have that guy in hand already. if you think that Benton is a good starting interior defensive lineman, but you still need somebody who might have a little bit better upside, I'd take Kenneth Grant here, right? And that would be, I would probably be deciding between Kenneth Grant and Luther Burden if this scenario is the one that played out the way that we're sort of talking about here in this mock draft,

just because I would rather go with a player that I trust more for how I see the Steelers winning and a strength of their team. burden could be that, but it's just a little muddier given their current wide receiver situation. All of that is totally reasonable. One of the reasons I didn't suggest an interior defensive lineman here

is that I'm doing it for every single team we're doing for the rest of the draft and wanted to mix it up a little bit. That's fair. That's fair. I didn't want every single team to have pick your best available interior defensive linemen Because that literally is an option for all of the rest of the teams we're about to go through over the next four here.

Yeah, we're on a gauntlet. We are on a gauntlet for these next couple of picks. So it does make sense. Again, as long as we set our piece and we got it all out there, I have no problem with Luther Burden because I also think he's a different type of player. So like even if you trade George Pickens, like let's say they draft Luther Burden and they could trade George Pickens for, I don't know, a fourth round pick because I don't know how much more he's going to go for because it's on the last year of his contract. Maybe he's a third. but like you get that for George Pickens. Then all of a sudden your wide receiver room is D.K. Metcalf, Luther Burton,

hopefully Roman Wilson, who I was very surprised, didn't do anything after it seemed like he was healthy last year. Coming in hurt, it's always hard. Like there are guys where their seasons as rookies just get completely derailed if they don't start off healthy. And that's kind of seemed like that's what happened. Because I like Roman Wilson. I think he's good. So that's a pretty nice wide achiever trio, even if you're moving on from. George Pickens and getting a pickback.

So we can go, we can go Luther Burton here. I get no problem with that. Luther Burton at 21 to the Pittsburgh Steelers. Get to 22 for the Los Angeles Chargers. Like I mentioned, option one, pick your vest available into your defensive linemen. There it is. Bring Puna Ford back. A lot of their solutions on the interior defensive line are short-term solutions.

I can't remember how long the contract tire signed was. I assume it's only one year. Yeah, one year for, One year, four and a half million. So that's something where you're going to need a long-term answer on the interior of the defensive line. This team is interesting because they made the playoffs last year. And because they weren't overly aggressive in free agency, it's really a reminder of how barren most of the roster was from a talent perspective. I mean, you could justify so many different things here.

And so interior defensive line to me is absolutely one of them. So that's option one. Kenneth Grant, Derek Harmon. You want to go a different direction with Walter Nolan. off the board. But interior defensive line is option one. Option two, draft your best available pass catcher. The tight ends are off the board here. You know, the guys that generally consider to be first round talents. But if you like another receiver here, if you like a Buka from Ohio State, if you think that's a little bit too redundant with what Lab Makonki's bringing you, go a different

direction. But I think this is a team and a fan base that is pretty starved for past catching talent at this point. So I at least wanted to open the door for you to go that way if you wanted to. option three draft your best available edge rusher gloomax on a one year deal so they're going to need some future plans at that spot even after bringing him back this year and then option four again whatever you want to do because getting back to it cornerback is arguably a need still even after signing dante jackson interior offensive line could be a need if they don't pick up zion williamson zion johnson's fifth and zion johnson's fifth year option running back is still even after signing dante jackson's still a need even after signing Najee Harrison free agency. So this is a team that I think there's a ton of optionality with where they could go in the first round even after being a playoff team last year. So I didn't want to limit you. So going back through them again very quickly, best interior defensive lineman, best available pass catcher, best available edge rusher, or just wildcard. Cornerback, interior offensive line, running back, whatever way you want to go for the Chargers.

What are you doing? You know, I wasn't thinking about him, but since you brought up Zion Williamson, I mean like, you know, good size, good explosiveness. There's your tight end. Could switch. Right, right, right, you know, could switch sports so that you could work out for. No, okay. So I think that with, those are all the scenarios that I think about here for the Chargers as well. I think the prospects that I gravitate towards when it comes to who should be this pick here. Kenneth Grant is one of them.

I think that you mentioned Puna Ford no longer being there is much bigger of a loss than I think some people are willing to realize. You also have the Michigan connection with. Of course, of course. Which I hadn't even thought about when I threw his name in there, but just thought of it now. And just to take this even further, the last year that Harbaugh was coach at Michigan, like during the summer or the spring, somebody asked him about both Mason Graham and Kenneth Grant. And he called those two gifts from the football gods. So obviously he is very high on both Mason Graham and Kenneth Grant and who they are, his football player. So Kenneth Grant's on the board here.

I am very comfortable with Emekauk on this team. I think Emekaukuk could play X for you. I think he could play Z. Somebody was, I was having this conversation with somebody. They were like, do you think it's redundant with Emetteigbuk on the team and Lab and Conkki on the team? And I said, no, I don't. Because I have full faith that both of these guys could play either Z or slot.

And even if you needed to put them on the line of scrimmage for certain formations, lad will at least give you his all as a blocker. At least you know that he will be fundamentally sound and pound for pound, he'll be a good blocker because he did it at Georgia and he did it a little bit last year with the Chargers. And Emmec Igbuka is the same way. And I think that when people think about Igbuka, so this is my comp for him, so I can't be too mad at it. But like my comp is this like bigger version of Amman Rae St. Brown. And I think that when people think about Igbuka, they think he is as small as Amman Rae St. Brown. He's not.

Like he's bigger. He is a little bit bigger of a wide receiver. So you can also get away with playing him. on the line of scrimmage. So I actually don't think there's redundancy. I actually think there's just more flexibility with those two dudes. I like that. So I'm not really worried about that.

And then Jada Baron is a very interesting one because I think that he plays the brand of corner that they want to play. The Chargers, we've got team top 100 big boards that we're releasing over the next couple of weeks over at PFF. And so we have a lot of data, like scheme data that we try to bring up from teams and sort of order these big boards for where those are at. They played a lot of nickel, obviously, as everybody does. But they also played a lot of dime.

And they're a team that I think is trying to get as many good corners as they possibly can on the team. Their main cornerback alignment last year, their most common one was off coverage, not press coverage. And they played zone 65% of the time. That's one of the higher marks that we had in the league. I think that was top 12. All of that speaks to who Jada Baron is as a player. The only thing is that need isn't nearly as desperate as it is at those other positions, right? getting a good wide receiver, getting a good defensive lineman.

So that's really the only thing holding me back from picking a guy like Jada Barron. I think the Chargers who, if I remember correctly, have like 10 or 11 picks in this draft. David's a ton. I mean, it's going to happen every year, seemingly with all the compics they're probably going to get. So they have three, they have four sixth round picks is where they've really done a lot of their damage. So they have their own picks in rounds one through five. And then they have four sixth round picks in addition to a seventh round picks in addition to a seventh round round comp pick. Yeah. So they got 10, so they got 10 picks. They will be drafting one or two

corners at some point, you know, whether they're trading up, trading down, whatever. I think they're drafted at least one or two corners. I think that's something they're always going to do. You're laboring here. This is a tough one. Give me a Buka. Give me a Maca. Go with his heart. I like it a lot. I've gone with Kenneth Grant so many times. I just, I want to do something different because I think it makes sense and it's worth talking about here in this format. I genuinely believe... Talk me through your process. Well, so with Interior Defensive Line, I think we are programmed to think that wide receiver

is always more plentiful than defensive linemen. And normally that is the case. This year it's not. Especially for a Jesse Mentor and Jim Harbaugh 3-4 defensive front, you will have with all of those picks that they have later, you know, and all those six-round picks to be able to move up and down in the third and fourth round specifically. You have guys like C.J. West, Alfred Collins, Vernon Broughton, Jordan Phillips, Jamari Caldwell, Ty Robinson, Cameron Jackson, Jordan Farmer, Tim Smith, Jared Harrison

Harrison Hunt from SMU. And then that's not even talking about some of the edge players that I think are 3-4 defensive end edge rushers. Jared Ivy is one of them. Shemar Turner is one of them. Elijah Roberts, the other defensive end from SMU. Jordan Birch. Savion Jones from LSU.

So I'm just listing off all of these guys. that would be great targets for the chargers later in the draft. And I think wide receiver also good. But I would tell you that especially if you were an odd front team, Emeka Buka versus who you might get in the second or third round is actually a bigger gap than who you might get from Kenneth Grant to these other guys a little bit later in the draft. So I'm going to go with Bukka here.

I love, love, love this rationalization for this specific reason. One of the reasons I think they went with tackle over receiver last year, which I think would be a common refrain from people being like, well, they wouldn't do this. They pushed the receiver back last year. They're really going to draft a receiver in the first round when there are trench options available. One of the reasons they did that last year is they felt really comfortable about the depth of receiver into the second round compared to what they could have done to tackle. And you flipping that on its head a little bit, I think does speak to the conversation that may be happening in that building because they've made decisions. based on weighing similar things in the past.

So I really like that. The last thing I'll ask you here, edge rusher is you bypassing any of the names there. Is that more about the quality of the players that are available or about the depth of the need for the charger specifically? Yeah, I mean, like, I think Nick Scorton would be good for them just as a stand-up outside linebacker, edge rusher. Shmar Stewart and Michael Williams, like, could be as developed.

governmental guys, but I don't know if James Pierce is really going to be a fit for them just because he's a little bit too much of a finesse pass rusher, a good one in somebody who could be really disruptive. But I think he's, I think he's just a little bit too finesse of a pass rusher, which he's sort of, it ranked on my big board right at 23. So it's well within this range. But then we start getting into the conversation of like, Braden Swinson from LSU, Landon Jackson from Arkansas, JT. Tuimolo, from Ohio.

state, Oluafemi Oladejo from UCLA. These are guys that I think could be fits for the Chargers. You don't have to draft them at 22. So again, it just goes to you're building a draft strategy in which I think the ROI you get for a Mecca Buka here, a defensive lineman in the second, and then a cornerback somewhere in the third, in my opinion is the best strategy. It's one of the better strategies that you can. have there. You can throw tight end in there obviously as well because this is a very common

Colson Loveland destination. So you can throw tight end if you feel good about Elijah Oroyo, Terrence Ferguson, Mason Taylor, guys like that. But again, like I'm out here just talking, naming tight ends off the top of my head that could all be top 100 players. And I start to get worried about wide receiver after 22 because their next pick is, their next pick is 55. At 55, yeah, you could probably still get a good receiver, maybe a Kyle Williams, maybe a Trey Harris, but if you don't pick one there, all of a sudden this class drops off more a wide receiver,

then I think, again, we're taught is the case with the receiver position. So ultimately all of that is why I go with the Buga there. I like it a lot. I think it makes sense. And again, if you're trying to find a little bit more of a sure thing or something that you can bank on there, if you're going to be taking a dice roll on a defensive lineman or a receiver anyway, why be doing it in the first round when there's somebody you feel a little

bit better about? So I get it. And I think the Chargers fans will hopefully sleep a little bit better having at least one more guy for Justin Herbert to throw the ball to. All right, before we get to the final three picks here at 23 to 25, we're going to take one more quick break. All right, the Green Bay Packers on the clock at 23. Option one, draft your best available edge rusher. Michael Williams, Shamar, Stewart, James Pierce, whatever you're feeling here. Still feels like that might be a need for this team, even though they've taken a bunch of bites at it over the last couple years. I will say, I can't remember where Brian Kunkn's was. It might have been in owners meetings talking about how I think we might just have to make

due with what we've done here because we've invested so many premium picks into that spot. I was wondering if they would feel that way, but I still feel like just for the comfort and just less than the anxiety for Packers fans in general, I want to at least give you the option of drafting one here. Option two, this is kind of a question. corollary of this, but I think it's worth mentioning. Draft your best available defensive tackle. Because I don't think that's going to be

at top of mind for a lot of people. But if you look at this, Devante Wyatt 50 or option, I think, is probably a question, even with some of the flashes he's had. Kenny Clark is a $31 million cap hit in 2026 and he will be 31 years old. Yeah, they're

doing something about that. If you think your best path to a better pass rush is an interior player. rather than an edge rusher, I want to give you the chance to do that here. Option three, draft your best available quarterback. Receivers could be a potential choice here,

but again, I just feel like what do you really doing except throwing another log onto the fire with the guys who might be available here? Do you really need to do that? Right. Is there any other positions that aren't in there that you feel like you're at top of mind

for you with the Packers? No, not really. I would have considered a Buka here if the Bougu was still available, but certainly with, all of the big four off the board, Tett, Golden, Burden, and,

Ibuka, like, I'm not really thinking about any other wide receiver here for the Packers. It's really interesting that you bring that up because I also feel that same sentiment with them when it comes to edge rusher. I think they're just mad at how, like, nonproductive their edge rushers were last year. And I think they're basically saying to them,

like, hey, you just have to play better. Like, this is on you. They fired the defensive of Y coach. Yeah, I mean, like, We drafted the right guys. We just haven't gotten the right stuff out of them. We're changing out all the other component parts, not the players. That's what the messaging feels like to me.

I think that you're so right and I'm with you. If they're drafting a defensive lineman, I actually think it's an interior defensive lineman as opposed to an edge rusher, which we didn't take Kenneth Grant, right? Kenneth Grant is still here. We did not take Kenneth Grant. Kenneth Grant is still on the board. Yeah, people are going to be really mad if I don't pick. But I also think Jod A. Barron is an excellent Jeff Halfley cornerback.

When I look at the numbers that they had from last year, 65.1% zone coverage from them last year leans into who Jada Barron is. They play pressing off a decent amount both. So you feel good about what Barron's able to do with that flexibility there. And they also play a lot of base as well as Nickel last year. and when you're playing base, your corners have to be able to tackle. I mean, from both of those alignments, I think that I guess you got an extra linebacker on the field. So maybe you think that that's the case. But, man, I'm just, I'm thinking about how good Jada Barron is as a tackler.

And if you only got two corners out there, you feel really good about both of those guys and how well they can tackle. And, you know, if they've got to funnel things back inside to the linebackers, man, I just, I think I'm going to go with Jade Barron here. I think I'm going to let Kenneth Grant's slide continue, which I didn't think was going to be the case. It was a close call for the last pick. It was a close call for this one. But I just do not have faith in the corners they currently have, especially with Jaira Alexander's situation so completely unknown. So if you have Jaya on the team, great. I think that Jada Barron, I think that Nate Hobbs, I think that Jaira Alexander, really nice cornerback trio.

And I even like Harrington Valentine. And I like Hishon Nixon. Like those are really guys, good guys to throw in the mix. I think it totally looks different if Jaya Alexander's name is no longer on the depth chart. And now I think that Barron could actually be the player who goes inside and out to play the Jayaer role like this defense I think needs. So I'm going to go with Jada Barron here for the Packers of 23.

Packers cornerback to me as like one of the more fascinating positions of any good team in the NFL. And I think you could talk about that with like the bills, right? because the bills need another corner. So that's where the intrigue comes from with Buffalo. With the Packers, there are, I'm not a math guy, but if you have five guys, five positions in the defensive backfield, and you theoretically have like three guys who could play all of those positions,

just think about how many possible iterations of the Packers' defensive backfield we might have, and you still feel like you might need to draft somebody else. Like, I just don't have any clue about how this is all going to. to shake out because one of the reasons they liked Nate Hobbs is because he has inside outside versatility. Kishat Nixon is somebody who has played inside outside. Javon Bullard is somebody who has played both safety and nickel. So even if you remove Alexander, I think you could make a real argument that you have enough bodies to solve this problem, but are the bodies good enough for you to sleep easy at night if you're Brian Gouncuncunson and Jeff Hathley? I could understand it either way.

I could say, you know what, we've done enough here. We're going to be fine no matter how this shakes out, even if we trade Jair, or if we trade Jair, we still need like a true dude that we can play outside. You can talk yourself into either one of those, and I would probably be convinced at the argument. I think there's a reason why they haven't traded him yet. It's because I don't think they feel super confident in what you said. I think ideally they would like to, but I think I believe that they're still of the mindset of like, if we trade him, we don't have enough faith that we can stop the best teams

in this league. Because it's not just the best teams in this league. It's your own division. I mean, with Ben Johnson going to Chicago, that offense should. I love that that's the first team you mentioned. I love you so much. Well, well, it's the first team I mentioned because that's, that would, that's been the only weak link, right?

And now that's not, in theory, it's not going to be a weak link at all. And you're going to have Kevin O'Connell's offense. You're going to have the Detroit Lions offense. And you're going to have Ben Johnson's offense on three different teams. You're playing them six times a year. Like, forget taking the deep playoff run. You might not even have the corners to defend your own division. So that's why I think there's a reason why they haven't traded Jaya yet.

And I think that it's because they've got to know they have some sort of talent to be able to hold up if they move on from them. And if they draft Jod A. Barron, it gets a little bit more flexible to be able to do. do that. So I'm going to take Barron. All right. Let's stick in that division in the NFC North, get to the Minnesota Vikings at 24. Vikings might be the team that's like the odd man out here if you take Barron at 23 because I think corner is still probably a need for this team. Option one was going to be draft the best cornerback available. It's still going to be option one. Here's the offshoot I will give you with that for the Vikings. You can also take Malachi Stark's if you want to. Okay. Great. Okay. All right. All right. So draft your best defensive back, the defensive back of your choice, mostly corner.

But if you like Starks here, Harrison Smith's getting older. I believe he's a free agent after this year. I think you would easily justify that. Option two, draft gate, Gray Zabel from North Dakota State. Still feels like left guard is a need for this team. Ryan Kelly getting a little bit older. He's your temporary solution at center. If you want to step into a world over the next couple of years,

where you think Zabel's best at center, I think you could probably do that over a two to three year outlook. option three, draft your best available interior defensive linemen. Because even after signing Jonathan Allen and Javan Hargrave, Harrison Phillips is a free agent after this year. Javon Hargrave, you can get out for about half of the dead money.

I think he has a $20 million cap it in 2026 and you would save about $10 million against the cap if you moved on. So I think that position probably a little bit more fluid than it might seem given their free agent strategy. So those are your three options. Draft the best cornerback available or Malachi Stark's if you're feeling saucy.

Option two, draft Graf, draft Gray's able to be your left guard now and potentially your center of the future. Option three is draft your best available interior defensive lineman, given the two to three your outlook of that group for the Vikings. What are you doing for Minnesota? Yeah, if we're talking about player additions, like these are the three, I think that you nailed it. I think that these are the positions that I would go for for them, potentially an outside corner because they have Isaiah Rogers, they have Mackay Blackman, they brought back Byron. Murphy okay like you're okay at those spots you sign jeff akuta um you've got dwight mcgathern who you drafted last year like you feel okay there but you could probably if you feel really good about one of these corners you can still probably invest in that position if one falls

to you into your offensive line i agree at the gray's able i keep going back to him as an option for them at left guard if he makes it 24 man i feel like he's their guy this is a team that wants to run a lot outside zone concepts and gray's able is the perfect guy for that i think you know some people you know, when Tyler Booker was having his rise up the big boards and on the consensus boards, sometimes people would have Tyler Booker going here to the Minnesota Vikings at 26 or at 24. I think that's a terrible scheme fit because you don't want Tyler Booker on the hoof a lot. I mean, you want him combo blocking. You want him running duo.

You want him, okay, maybe as a polar a little bit. But, you know, if anything, you're really just trying to loop around the tackle or something like that. You don't want him having to try to get to aiming points and trying to wall guys off, especially for mid and outside zone stuff. So devil's advocate though. Yes. Let's say part of their run game struggles over the last couple years is that they haven't had the bodies to potentially tap into some of that downhill gap stuff.

And a guy like Tyler Booker actually helps them pivot to a run scheme that actually might be better suited to them unlocking that version of their offense. If that's what they want to do, and certainly by draft. Ryan Kelly and Will Fries, you allow yourself from the Indianapolis Colts playing a lot of downhill stuff in between the tackle stuff. I feel good enough about Brian O'Neill doing it. I feel good enough about Christian Dara saw doing it. So if they want to lean more into it, I can understand maybe this is a scenario that like what we saw was Sean McVeigh, right? For Sean McVeigh for the longest time, it was wide zone, it was mid zone, it was, it was

that kind of stuff. And then like two years ago, he's like, nah, we're just going to punch you in the mouth now. And it's like, okay, all right, interesting. So maybe you're right, maybe Kevin O'Connell and switched it because it has been a success for the ramp. So if they want to do that, maybe Tyler Booker does become a fit and he could be an option there for them. The only other scenario that I would throw out at you, which I don't want to do it because it would get complicated. This team's got four draft picks total right now.

Four. They pick it 24. Then they do not pick again until 97 in the third round. And then their fifth and sixth round selections aren't even theirs. one of them is the Browns and then one of them is to San Francisco 49ers. So they are, the bill is coming due for the JJ McCarthy trade up, for the Dallas Turner trade up. And so like they seriously have to think about moving back even if there's somebody on the board that they like here. Just because a four-man draft class is not a healthy way to continue to allow your roster to have the players that you want to have on it.

So I got to think that they're probably going to trade back. if they're not, I like Malachi-Starks here the best. I have the most worries about their secondary and long-term, I should say, with Mattelis and Harrison's scheduled to be their starters. I think you feel really, really good about Malachi-Starks being a centerpiece of your safety moving forward for a long time. So if we're just doing players, I'd be taking Malachi-Starks here. Yeah, if we could trade a little bit further back in the first round and Houston wasn't

the only potential option. because we're keeping these contained. That absolutely would be an option for this team for the exact reasons that you said. But I think Starks, I hadn't really thought about it until I started going through this. But if you look at it,

they re-signed Theo Jackson. And so they have a third safety on the roster. But Theo Jackson's got on a three-year, $9 million deal. And if this is Harrison Smith's last year, think about the optionality and the flexibility they want out of that safety room. And totally.

I'm just not sure you'd feel great about saying, yeah, Theo Jackson can just do what Cam Bynam did. I just feel like Malachi Starx might be that guy who just gives you a little bit more flexibility on the back end where you do still need another body. So I actually like this more than I thought I would until I started doing this exercise. And now that I have and it's hit my brain, I do think it does make some sense. Yep. I like what you said for what Brian Flores wants to do, what Can Biden was able to do for them as now a member of the Indianapolis Colts. Like I think that

I think this is an ideal fit. I really do. I think it makes sense in the short term and the long term. He's a building black piece for them. Let's get to the Houston Texans picking 25 to round this out. Option one,

draft Josh Simmons, if he is available or your best available favorite offensive linemen, you can take it whatever direction you want. But it seems like that may might be your guy based on your big board and based on the need they have at tackle compared to some of these other teams.

Option two, this is another team that I'm really, do they need another guy here and then you actually think about it, is draft the best available into your defensive linemen because Rankins and Autry are free agents after this year. And that don't really happen. Tim Settle Mario Edwards Jr. So think about have you dropped like a really,

really good interior offensive linemen into the group they already have and what that would do to the rest of your defense. It's at least tempting to me, even giving the needs they have along the offensive line. Option three was going to be draft Luther Burton or a mecca, Agabuka, both of those guys are off the board. I don't think you'll be tempted by another receiver here.

So it's essentially Josh Simmons or your interior defensive linemen of choice. And I think that's probably a fair set of options for where the Texans are right now. Yeah, I think that it is. And this one basically comes down to Kenneth Granter, Josh Simmons, and both of these guys. This is 17th and 18th on my big board right now. I'm a big Josh Simmons guy. He was my OT5 going into this season. There were flashes where, man, I saw him in 2023, and I was like, he hadn't put it all together yet.

He's not fully confident in what he could do, but man, it could all be there. Now, he was excellent to those first five games for Ohio State this past season. Now, of course, I'll be honest, those were also probably the weakest opponents that Ohio State faced. So it's not like he faced the best of the Big Ten. It's not like he went through that college football playoff gauntlet that Ohio State went to to become national champions. That's why Donovan Jackson's already off the board here. Well, really? Did he go? Oh, yeah?

Oh, Ben, Ben put him on the Bengals. I mean, it's actually a great pick for the Bengals, not just in terms of a what you should do type of a thing. It's a little rich for Jonathan Jackson for me, but it's fine, I consider it. The Bengals would love this dude. Big program, local guy, like, I think they're going to be all in on Donovan Jackson,

potentially at number 17. I am going to take Simmons here over Kenneth Graham simply because I cannot in all good conscience, just to sit here and say to myself, well, yeah, I mean, like, Titus Howard could have one of those offensive tackles spots. Well, yeah, I mean, like, you know, Blake Fisher could be the guy that you want. Well, you know, we brought in Cam Robinson and, okay, well, he's on his third team in

over a year. So it's like, oh, yeah, but we'll be fine there. You traded Laramie Tunsell. And I'm not going to sit here and say that you did the wrong thing because there are plenty of things that happen behind the scenes that we don't really know about that, you know, sort of come out like, hey, was the right leadership voice in the offensive tackle room? and I don't cover the team.

I'm not in the locker room. I can't speak to it. I won't say it was the wrong decision. I will say that C.J. Stroud now going into his third year, halfway through his rookie contract, you better do everything that you can to keep him upright a lot more than he was last season. Because this is, the Texans currently have the best situation that you can have in pro sports. You have a franchise caliber rookie quarterback, or you have a franchise caliber quarterback on a rookie contract.

You're about to be halfway done with that, and you just traded away your Pro Bowl left tackle. So I'm taking Josh Simmons, not just because I think it's what the Texans should do, but also because I do believe fully healthy, he could be a starting caliber, high-ceiling offensive tackle in this league. So that's why I'm going Simmons here at 25. I also think it makes sense if he's not ready right away. You at least have somebody in Cam Robinson. You could start over the first month of the season if he wanted to.

Cam Robinson has a $5 million cap at this year. year. Part of the reason for that is that there are 17,000 void years on the deal that he signed, the one-year deal that he's signed with the Texans. But I think that deal is indicative of we want to make sure that if we had to play tomorrow, we have a guy that could play left tackle, but there is nothing about that contract that is going to prevent us from seeking out a guy that we think is the answer at that position. And so I think that Simmons being here and, again, having a little bit more of a murky timeline because of the injury, I think it makes a ton of sense for where the Texans are right now.

If you're a Texans fan, I think he should be doing backflips right now with him still being there. And I kind of think it speaks to the way the tackle rooms look in those picks from like 19 through 25, the fact that he, or the 19 through 24, the fact that he is still even available. Yep. Yep.

Look, I, if he was fully healthy and he played out of the season, I have faith that we'd be talking about him as a top 15, top 12 overall guy. And so I'm going to have faith that he's going to be fully healthy because I haven't really heard otherwise, and I understand the meniscus injuries. You know, they're nothing to scoff at. But again, just going back to you have to do everything you can

to make sure this offensive line is a hell of a lot better than it was last year. And last year, it included Laramie Tunsell. So you've just got to do what you need to do. And I would throw a first round resource at an offensive tackle that I think has a starting caliber and Pro Bowl ceiling. The only thing that I wanted to at least mention before we get out of here is that when Derek Harmon ends up becoming a really good player, you're going to hear about it from me.

I saw your tweet. I did see your tweet saying like, hey, I'm planting my flag with Derek Harmon. He's my guy. Which is so silly because like he's a first round player for most people. It's not some gym that I found watching guys, but like that's not what I spend all day doing. That's what you spend all day doing. So it was more so in reference to the players at the position that could be drafted in a similar range, right?

The fact that Walter Nolan and Kenneth Grant and him, you know, any of those. guys could be the first interior defensive lineman off the board. The thought was more so I liked him more than all the other guys I watched at that spot. And again, kind of weighing the interior defensive lineman edge stuff, I liked him more than the edge guys that I watched. And so those choices from teams drafting like 10 through 20 at those defensive lineman spots are going to be really interesting to watch.

I think that Harmon says he's, he's been fun to watch his game evolve over the year because I really did not like him at all coming into this year. He's coming over from Michigan State, and when he was at Michigan State, he was bigger. He had more mass on him. I think he was closer to like 320, 325. He was much more of just a run stuffing sort of like nose tackle or a run stuffing three technique defensive tackle type of a player. He goes over to Oregon and then he loses weight. So he's playing close to I think like 310, 315.

And he definitely looks faster. And you can tell he's put an emphasis on being a better pass rusher. But then playing at a lower weight, I felt like he was giving up a little bit on the run game. As this past year went on, he got better. And you talked about sort of bringing his name up when we were talking about Walter Nolan earlier in the show. Derek Harmon has a mature game, in my opinion. You mentioned how he's not like, like, you know,

Walter Nolan can sometimes be a little chaotic, erratic. Derek Harmon is not that. A lot of what he does is very purposeful. And it's easy to really like guys that just seems so in control. even when it doesn't work, you can tell that they're doing things for a reason. And Derek Harmon, to his credit, is one of those guys who it feels like he knows the why into what works. So we will see, obviously, how successful that is with him transitioning from Oregon to the NFL. I think it'll be a little bit of a transition period for him to be as effective of what we saw this past season.

But at least you like how this guy approaches the game. And so, hey, if he turned, the first Pro Bowl ballot that he gets, you could have me back on this show and I'll take it. You can have your victory lap. We can hear about it. I think part of the empathy is that the guy's biggest weakness being the fact that he can't push away from the dinner table is something that I really do empathize with. Like we're working on the same wavelength here. So I think that's why I'm really rooting for him to succeed.

One of us. One of us. Trevor Sycambe sincerely appreciate the time, sir. It is always good to do this with you. Please tell everybody where they can check out all of the draft work that you guys are doing over at PFF. Sure. Yeah. PFF.com. if you got a PFF subscription, you'll be able to see all of it.

You can see the team top 100 big boards, which is me kind of taking my big board and putting things higher or lower depending on scheme fit and some draft history and just what we think these teams are going to do overall. So those are going to be over at PFF.com. If you have a subscription, you can get the draft guide as well, which has the strength, the skouting summary, all the PFF data points, player comps for about 200 guys in this class, which is very proud of the scouting staff that we had over there, that we were able to get to those 200 guys in that.

much detail. And then, of course, NFL Stock Exchange Show with myself and Connor Rogers talking NFL Draft 365. The best hair collectively in NFL podcasting by far over at BFF stock or NFL Stock Exchange. So please go check out that show and all the other great work that Trevor and those guys are doing. For now, that's all we've got. We've got a monster show on that for tomorrow. Again, I'm not going to, I'm not going to spoil it because he's a busy man and I want to make sure that were locked in before. Just know that it's going to be me, Dane, and a very special guest talking about some mid-round gems on tomorrow's show.

So please come back and check that out. And then we'll be back a little bit later this week, also doing some past catchers, me, Dan and Derek, breaking down this class. I'll be honest. I was talking about Harmony yesterday. I've watched like six guys. I don't like any of them. I don't like any of them, especially compared to consensus.

I'm not sure I like any of them. So I'll let you guys know when I find one that I like. as we dig a little bit deeper into this past catching group for now though that's all we got sincerely appreciate you guys listening we'll talk to you very soon