The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - On the Clock, picks 7-12: The Panthers and 49ers swing our first trade!

Episode Date: April 1, 2025

We're back On the Clock on this episode of The Athletic Football Show. Danny Kelly from The Ringer joins Robert Mays to make picks seven through 12 in the 2025 NFL Draft. That covers first-round picks for the Jets, Panthers, Saints, Bears, 49ers and Cowboys. The Panthers and Niners make a deal! Ashton Jeanty comes off the board! The Saints have us confused! Again!! Come and join the draft fun.Fill out The Athletic's listener survey. Three people will win $100 in vouchers at Amazon: theathletic.com/athletic/survey25Host: Robert MaysCo-Host: Derrik KlassenWith: Danny KellyExecutive Producer: Michael BellerProducer: Michael BellerSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTubeFollow Robert on Bluesky: @robertmays.bsky.socialFollow Derrik on Bluesky: @qbklass.bsky.socialFollow Danny on Bluesky: @dannybkelly.bsky.socialFollow Robert on X: @robertmaysFollow Derrik on X: @QBKlassFollow Danny on X: @DannyBKellyTheme song: HauntedWritten by Dylan Slocum, Trevor Dietrich, Ruben Duarte, Kyle McAulay, and Meredith VanWoert / Performed by Spanish Love SongsCourtesy of Pure Noise / By arrangement with Bank Robber Music, LLC Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. Fun one for you guys today. I don't know if you checked out last week's first edition of our on the clock series, but just to lay it out for you, we're going to be doing this every single week all the way in the lead-up to the draft. We're doing six picks each show, six or seven, depending on how the math works out. We're chunking up the draft into five sections.

We started last week with picks one through six. Jordan Reed from ESPN joined us. The way that we're doing this is that I am giving these draft experts three operations. three options per team when they are on the clock, and they have to pick one. And what we're doing is we're collecting these into one larger mock draft across the entire first round here over the next five weeks. Just to recap very quickly, last week, Jordan took Cam Ward with the first pick to the Titans, Chador Sanders, number two to the Browns, Travis Hunter, number three to the Giants,

Abdul Carter, number four to the Patriots, number five was Mason Graham to the Jags, Number six, Will Johnson from Michigan going to the Raiders. So that was installment one. Today is installment number two with my good friend Danny Kelly from the ringer. We chatted about picks seven through 12. I gave him several options for all of those picks. We had our first trade, which we are limiting to the teams that we're talking about, but that can still happen. And so we had a trade thrown in here, which was very fun.

I actually think it does make a lot of sense. You guys are here when you get there. But really enjoyed chatting with DK about all of these. teams and the various different directions, they could go in the first round. So let's get to that conversation with Danny right now. All right. It is round two of our ongoing on the clock series here on the athletic football show. For those of you who didn't listen to the first installment last week with Jordan Reed from ESPN, here's what we're doing on these. We're laying out several options for a series of draft experts slash friends of the show for them to choose their own adventure as a

they were the GM of this team. Last week, it was picks 1 through 6. This week, it is picks 7 through 12. And here to help me with this exercise, it's an old friend and somebody who I was very excited to have on the show. It's Danny Kelly. D.K., how you doing, man? I'm doing excellent.

How are you doing? I'm doing very well. I appreciate you getting down and playing in the sandbox with us here a little bit. The first one of these was very fun, and I'm excited to keep it rolling. I'm going to put you in some tough spots here, in part. because this stretch of the draft, and I think some of it is derived from a lack of information about these new staffs, right?

So the Jets, the Saints, these are first year head coaches. We don't know a ton about them, even if there's some front office continuity with New Orleans. And then there are also some teams in here that are either turning a new, turning over a new leaf in terms of which direction they're heading, like the Niners are a team that I find fascinating in this draft. The Panthers have so many needs

that I think it's hard to pin down exactly where I would, go for them. So I think picks one through six, we had a little bit better of an understanding of how it might go. This group, there's a lot more uncertainty with these six teams. And I think that that is going to play out in how we talk about this. A hundred percent. And especially in this class in particular, just, I think after you get through the top blue chip players, it's, it's just much less clear what guys of teams are going to love. I think there's a huge range of players that could go in this, in this area, in the draft. And so, yeah, it's, it's, it's, have to nail down exactly what these guys are going to do.

So just as a reminder, we had the first six picks last week, and we were going to do this as like a running mock draft. It's one of the reasons that we're organizing it this way. So here's what Jordan did just as a refresher before we get into pick seven through 12. At number one, the Titans take Cam Ward. At number two, the Browns take Shador Sanders, which was a fun little wrench to throw into things immediately. At number three, the Giants take Travis Hunter.

Four, Patriots get Albuquerter. Five, the Jags take Mason Graham. And at six, and this was an important distinction, and we'll get into this with you as well, because it was Jordan doing the picking, and I asked him if you were picking, who would you take? He took Will Johnson at six for the Raiders.

So that is maybe a little bit earlier than some other people would take him, but the other fun part of that is that that means Ashton Genty is still available and potential options for any of the teams that we are going to run through right now. So the quick reminder that's important with that is you were the one,

making these picks. It's not what you think the team will do. You are the one with your finger on the button here. As I lay out those six picks for you, anything there that's overly shocking to you? No, not particularly. I think Cam Ward, it feels like almost an assumption

that that's going to be the number one overall pick, probably to the Titans, very probably to the Titans. Shudor, I think the Brown's thing makes a lot of sense, considering what, you know, you're just putting the pieces of the puzzle together, what Miles Garrett said,

and why he decided to resign there, the fact that they have, you know, this quarterback situation in Cleveland. It just makes some sense. And then, yeah, the rest of those picks make perfect sense to me. Obviously, the Raiders taking Johnson,

not a huge surprise. They do have cornerback need. He's a really good player. Obviously, if Pete Carroll was picking, he might pick someone else there. He might pick Ashen Gentie, but I think that makes a lot of sense, just from a team-building point of view,

premium position, all that stuff. you had Will Johnson where on your big board? Let me see. I've got him at 10. Yeah, I couldn't find it. You guys in your big, beautiful draft guide, there's a lot of space between players here. So he's at 10 for you.

So that's not crazy. And considering the need that the Raiders have here, so he was your number one corner. I know you're a little bit higher on Judi Barron than some other people, which we'll get into as part of this exercise. So I think that's totally reasonable to connect the dots between Johnson and the Raiders based on where you have him.

All right, let's do this. So for people unfamiliar, again, I'm going to lay out three options for you for each of these teams, and you are the one making the pick. So you were on the clock with the New York Jets at number seven. Option number one, draft a tackle. Both Armand Membu and Will Campbell are both on the board here. Those options are available to you. If you choose to go that route, you can have either one.

I'm being very nice to you here. Being even nicer with option two, because again, there's so many people available, draft the past catcher as your second option. That can be one of the tight ends. That can be Tett McMillan. That can be something weird if you choose it to be. But again, a lot of room to play around there. And number three is the widest pool of all of them.

Draft any defender of your choice. Because I do think that is a little bit more... The field of defensive players. And so here's the reason I've laid this out this way. I think tackle and pass catcher, when people have looked at this for the Jets and mocked players to them, that's most consistent. right.

They need a right tackle as you look at the depth chart. They need more explosiveness at the past catching spots. Tight end. Nobody on that roster is preventing you from drafting a tight end. Jeremy Rucker is not scaring you off of Tyler Warren if you like Tyler Warren. So I think those two positions have been the consistent one. But we don't know what this coaching staff and this front office wants this Jets defense to look like. So there might be some pieces they don't feel like they have that they need.

you know, interior defensive line is a need for this team. You could argue that maybe a bigger edge rusher with Will McDonald is your number three is a need for this team. Is Brandon Stevens the other long-term answer or a corner? Do you need safety help still? So there are just so many different directions they could go in year one. That's why I wanted to leave it so open-ended. The Jets, I think, are a fun team to try and project because we don't know a ton

about, you know, Aaron Glenn as a head coach. We don't know a ton about Tanner Engstrand as a offensive coordinator. we don't know exactly what direction they want to go. Obviously, the quarterback situation is sort of in a bridge year. Maybe it could be more than that with Justin Fields. We'll see how it all goes. I think what I'm going to do is lean offensive line just based on the fact the head coach and offensive coordinator coming over from the Lions got that kind of like influence of

build from the trench, build from the offensive line. You can build everything out from there. The type of offense, I imagine they're going to be run. Running is going to be run heavy with Justin Fields where he is a part of the run game. They have three really good backs there. So it just kind of all adds up together. I think maybe I'll throw a curveball here and go with Armand Membue just because he is a right tackle. He was right tackle almost exclusively, or at least that was by far his most common position.

You know, he's athletic. He's big. He's tough. He's like 330 pounds or whatever it did weigh in. You know, he's just got the size and beef. I think they're going to like and you can plug him in right there right away at right tackle. It's less of a projection. And I do like Will Campbell a ton.

In fact, I've got him slightly above on my big board, I think. But those two guys are just bucketed together, both really, you know, high level tackles could play guard in a pinch or maybe that's even their best position going forward. But like bottom line, you're getting a really good offensive line. You're going to be able to build out that offensive line and in like just basically do the thing the Lions do, which is build everything out from their offensive line, build the entire offense around the fact that they can protect that they can run the football. It just makes a lot of sense to me. Obviously, Glenn probably like to get a defender here, but, you know, just from a team-building

point of view, it makes a lot of sense to have that elite offensive line. You're pairing need and players available. I think that it totally tracks to do something like this. Another hypothetical I'll throw out for you because you picking Membu over Campbell is interesting. Let's say you're picking for the Patriots at four and you have a left tackle need. Are you taking Will Campbell there over Armand Membo? I think so, yes. I think kind of the differences, obviously Campbell has more experience there on the

line side. They're both going to get knocked for lack of total length. I think Membo's arms came in a little bit under, you know, that 34 inch benchmark as well. So it's like you're, you kind of have the same questions with both of them, but Will Campbell played on the left side. He's played a lot of football. I just kind of, I think it's just a little bit less of a projection, if that makes sense. This is another weird one I'll throw at you. And this is like a very subtle thing. But I think with some of these teams picking in the top 10, including a couple of the ones we're going to talk about here. There's no immediate need tackle based on the rest of their roster, but you could talk about them maybe playing guard for a year and then popping out to tackle. Who would you feel better

about playing guard in 2025 if that's where one of those two guys had to play based on who else was on your roster? Oh, that's a really good question. I think I'd lean just ever so slightly Campbell. I think Membu also fits obviously just from a body type point of view at guard. But just Campbell, I think what I've seen from him, you know, he's really smooth, really quick, which I think matters obviously on the inside. You're going to be going up against, you know, big fast guys on the inside. I honestly think both of them could do it pretty well, pretty seamlessly. But I guess I'll just lean slightly with Campbell just because, you know, he's got that quickness.

He's got that, you know, smoothness and balance. Let's get to our next one here. The Carolina Panthers at number eight. option one if available which he is draft ted macmillan from arizona to be your kind of true number one receiver in that offense with a couple of the other younger options that they have option two again a little bit open-ed because there's so many of them still left on the board everyone except for abdwell carter is just draft a pass rusher that can be one of these tweener guys like jow and walker that can be a true edge player if you want to get a little bit weird that can be an interior

that you think is actually best here and that you might draft a little bit higher than the consensus board might say. And here is the one that I'm really enjoying. Option three, you can trade down with the San Francisco 49ers who are picking at 11.

As part of this scenario, the Niners give you pick 100, which is a compick of theirs in the third round. And that if the Niners are trading up, they are taking Will Campbell as part of this overall play here. So you go from 8 to 11, and you would take,

you would pick up an extra third rounder as part of this process. So McMillan, pass rusher of some kind, or you trade down from 8 to 11 with the Niners and get an extra third round pick. What are you doing if you are Dan Morgan and the Panthers front office here?

That is a really interesting scenario because I think, you know, for a team like the Panthers where they still have a ton of needs everywhere, it makes a lot of sense to get that opportunity to trade back. They've got, looks like they have a pick, obviously in the first, a late pick in the second, and then an earlyish pick in the third.

They certainly could use the ammunition. So you say you get 100 overall? Yeah, which is at the end of the third round. Yeah. I'm wondering if that would be enough for them to move back at that spot. All right, let's talk that out. What else would you need? Now, now this is me, John Lynch, talking to you, Danny Kelly,

the GM of the Patriot of the Panthers. I'm just thinking like if you're passing up like a potential for a blue chip, player, I probably would want at least the 75th pick, which I think the 49ers have in the third round, you know, to kind of just like sweeten that deal a little bit. I think if I was, if I was, if you were willing to do that, that's a difference. Let's see, that's a, in the Jimmy Johnson chart, that's 215 points or whatever you want to call it. That's about the difference, I guess, between the eighth and the 11th pick, according to that

chart. So that's probably what I'd be looking for. According to more modern charts, that is a drastic overpay by the Niners. move up three spots. But because we're talking about a potential tier break of talent here, which is how a lot of these things work. And if we think the talent smooths out after that,

maybe you're willing to play a little bit of a premium if you're the Niners. All right, I'm saying yes to that trade. So you get 75 and I as the 49ers get to move up from 8, from 11 to 8. You're open to that. Yes.

I think we make that trade. I think like you said, Will Campbell probably considered one of the blue chip players, especially a guy who can play left tackle, which is just such a hard thing to find in the NFL. And obviously he would fit so perfectly with the 49ers. I could see the 49ers being pretty excited to make that trade. So yeah, that to me makes a lot of sense.

So now if you're the Niners with Will Campbell, I guess we can open this up again. Because I did this thinking both tackles might be on the board. Now that they're not, is there anybody you would take over Will Campbell in this scenario if you were the Niners? Or do you think he would be the pick there if you were going to make this trade? I don't think they need to go

they need to be super aggressive to go get a guy like Tett McMillan there I mean Jalen Walker on that on that defense would be a lot of fun but I don't know if they necessarily like if that's like their biggest need Tyler Warren would be really fun to pair with with Kittl

a guy that they you know he's getting compared to quite often I don't know if he's really on the level of Kittle in my opinion but he's definitely like a tier below a notch below in terms of style they're pretty similar that would be a lot of fun to watch in that offense So when I was going to lay out the options for the Niners for you at 11, I had three and then the fourth bonus option because I thought it was spicy is you can take one of the tight ends if you're so compelled. So I was interested in that because not only just adding more explosives to the offense, but potentially as like a kiddle succession plan if you were San Francisco, if that would be interesting to them.

But in this scenario between Warren or Campbell, you would feel more comfortable taking more or Campbell. I think so. I think it's probably a stronger need for them right now. He could drop in at right tackle right away with the option of him playing at guard or maybe left tackle in the future when Trent Williams decides to retire. I think just like, you know, premium position versus a tight end, which is generally not considered to be a premium position. I mean, Kittle was a fifth rounder. Obviously, you see a lot of the top tight ends in the league go on day two these days. I just think it makes more sense from a team building value point of view.

just the value, the surplus value, a really good tackle is going to bring you at that spot. But that being said, if anybody could use Tyler Warren to like our dream scenario, just like positionless football, the cool thing about Warren is just, you know,

they utilized him as a wildcat runner. He had over 200 yards rushing this last year. He was snapping the football at times. He's really good with a ball in the air. I think he has potential to grow into a really good blocker. He has the want to, the size. He's 6-6-260, really good out. athlete. It just makes it would be like a dream come true for just people wanting to see how

the Shanahan would use him in the offense. That would be really fun alongside George Kittle. But I think just from a value point of view, it probably makes more sense to make a guy who could develop into a long-term starter at multiple positions on your offensive line. Yeah, you could play him wherever you wanted in 2025. If you want to play him at left guard, keep Colton McKivitz there at right tackle. You could potentially do that. If you wanted to play him at right tackle and then have it be a long-term succession plan with Trent Williams over the next two or three years, you could potentially do that. This team just needs offensive line help somewhere.

McIvitz is a free agent after the season. And even if he wasn't, again, I don't think he should be preventing you from doing anything at the high end of the draft. And if this is one of those rare opportunities, and me and Derek tomorrow are doing teams that have the most at stake in this year's draft. And I feel like the Niners are going to be on my list because they're picking higher than they normally would be. So you're probably in range for a better tier of player than you have been for years when

you're the Niners. And you have actual draft capital for the first team. time in a while. Like, they need to hit this because they have gotten a lot cheaper at some of these positions. They've cut a lot of costs. This is a real year of transition for them. So I think this draft becomes very important. So watching them potentially get a little bit aggressive to try to get one of those

blue chip guys, I don't know. I'm into it. I can absolutely talk myself into it. I think the other thing about just from the theoretical or the version of this trade where they're trading a third to move up to get the guy they really like here, it's like they're probably going to get a bunch of comp picks next year after losing, you know, multiple guys in free agency. I don't know exactly how that that will work out because, of course, they can sign guys in free agency as well.

But I think, you know, ultimately, a third round pick is not that much to give up to go get your guy. I think especially when there's a probable, I think most teams will look at this like a pretty big teardrop at tackle after Membu and Campbell are off the board. So I'm looking at it right now. As things currently stand, they are slated to get three. three cop picks two in the fourth round one in the fifth round aaron banks traverius ward tallano who fanga the ones for jaylon morin trade green law got uh axed out according to over the cap by the mac jones and luke farrell signings so still three conflicts coming their way okay mac jones hopefully

mac jones gets an opportunity to play for that offense it'll be kind of fun um not that i'm wishing injury on brock pretty or anything but i thought experimented is very fun right but this is a if you guys are I'd ever curious, the compic work that they do at over the cap, they do a very good job of it. I think it's Nick Cordy does the work for them there. And so it's just a consistent running tally based on the contracts. And some of this is subject to change just because we don't have all of the contract details all of the time. But it is a good resource if you just want to have a decent understanding of where some of these

compics could be coming from. So it's a great point. I mean, the Niners have multiple coming here over the next couple years. It's one of the only reason they've had that many draft picks period over the last two or three years after the Trey Lance trade is because they've had so many of these comp picks from their coaches getting hired. Right. Totally.

Yep. All right. Let's take a quick break here and then let's come back with the New Orleans Saints at number nine. Before we get back into the show, I want to tell you about the athletics listener survey. You listen to us. Now we want to hear from you. We're asking you to fill out a quick survey about you and your podcast habits by going to theathletic.com slash athletic slash survey 25.

Three lucky entries will win $100 worth of Amazon vouchers. So whether you're a long time listener or a new one, we want your feedback. Go to the athletic.com slash athletic slash survey 25. That's athletic. slash athletic slash survey 25. The link is also in our episode description below. All right, DK, let's keep rolling here. The New Orleans Saints at number nine.

I have absolutely zero feel for what they want to do, what they might do, what the options are going to be here. I just don't know. what to make of this group and even where they are in like the team building process. When you think about the saints right now, what is your understanding of who the saints are trying to be and how that plays into the players you've tried to put on them in this process? See, this is like the hardest part because I think for the longest time,

the media and or maybe some section of the fan group is like, look, can we just reset and take a year where we just make get our cap healthy again try and get back to neutral so we can, you know, start rebuilding or whatever. But no, this team feels like the moves that they're making in free agency so far are like, we're going to compete. And you know what? Honestly, in this division, it's not that wild of a thought to think that they could, you know, compete for the division division title.

I don't think anyone's world. They're going to be like a Super Bowl contender. But this has kind of been the story of the Saints for the past, you know, however long, decade long is we think we can compete. we're going to like maximize every cent we have in this cap and and kind of go for it and you know the future be damned i guess is like the health of the cap be damned we're just going to go for it um and you know i i think part of me is like that's really stupid and part of me is like i kind of respect that they're doing what no one else is doing here um and you know they just signed brandon cooks uh which is super random um there's just all these like very interesting random players on this team and then obviously you know they go and they go and hire Callan Moore as the new head coach. I think there's a lot of, you know, potential ways that that could go. I don't know exactly the type of offense he's going to bring to them.

You know, the Derek Carr question remains. Are they going to hang on to Carr long term? Are they going to build around him? Are they trying to get rid of them? You know, is this a spot where they potentially look at quarterback? I really don't know. I don't know what to do with this thing. Honestly, and this is like the funny thing.

Like, it wouldn't surprise me whatsoever if they picked Ashton Gentie here. because why not? Because he's a really good player and they think he could make a difference for them. Camara's not getting any younger. It would just be the most Saints thing ever to pick Gentie, but I actually could see them do it. Okay, so this is fun.

I did not have Ashton Genty as one of my four options for the Saints. I gave you four options for the Saints because the fourth one was that trade with the Niners is still on the table if the Panthers did not take it. So the Panthers did take it. My note directly below that option four is, am I wrong to think Genty is off the table for all three of these teams.

Camara has an $18 million cap hit in 2026, but if the Saints move on after this year, dead cap it? Is it worth having both of them in the same backfield? So you think there's an argument to be made potentially that there is, even with them paying Camara, probably for the next two years. So we're going to do something fun.

Just, you know, call an audible here. I'm going to put another option for back on the table and it is going to be as Shingenti. Yeah. Okay. So. To be clear, I don't think they should do this.

So I'm not going to pick the Gentie option, even though I do love Gentie. And I think, you know, he's an awesome player. And he's going to be an awesome player. But I don't think the surplus value, the Saints of all teams are going to get from him, make it, make it worthwhile or make it make sense for them. That being said, I do think when the saint, when you think about what the Saints could do in the draft, I think using logic is never necessarily the smartest thing to do. So I think he could make sense for them from that point of view.

Remind me what your other options were. I haven't even given any. I haven't given you any yet. So let's do this. Number one was draft an offensive tackle if one is available. Not really one available in this range. You probably want to draft in the top 10. So that option is likely off the board.

Option two. Draft the defender of your choice. Again, none of these guys have gotten taken yet. So whatever front seven guy you like or it can extend beyond the front seven, choose your own adventure. Any defensive player that you like here is available to you if you want to have them on the Saints. Option three, draft a pass catcher. Again, open-ended. It can be Tyler Warren. It can be Tett McMillan. It can be somebody else that we're not talking about here. And then

option four was going to be gentie. So we can strike that. We can strike the tackles. So defender of your choice, past catcher of your choice. What are you doing if you are in Mickey Loomis's chair? If I'm in that chair, I think what I'm doing is taking Tett McMillan here, which is kind of a bummer if you're the bears or Panthers, obviously, for obvious reasons. Um, but here's, here's, here's kind of my reasoning for why I look at that number one. If they are really trying to compete this year, which it feels like they are. They, they, they're a team that can win that division. It's kind of a wide open division, you know, just looking at some of their moves.

This isn't a team that's like trying to reset and, and kind of rebuild. They want to compete right away. I think Tim McMillan feels like a guy who can come in and contribute right away. The off, the, the, the offense and generally speaking, the receiver core is really not in a good position right now. You got Rashid coming off an injury. Chris Olava, who's honestly, his future, I think, is still a little bit up in the air in terms of like how many concussions he's had.

If he suffers another concussion, what are the implications of that? It's almost like you're getting into the Tuotungal Tunga Loa world where, you know, some people are probably going to be thinking he should just not play football anymore. So, like, that creates a ton of uncertainty at that position. and obviously, you know, you hired an offensive coach. You've got to make this Derek Carr thing work out somehow or whoever, you know, whoever end up being the next quarterback there, whether it's maybe it's Spencer Rattler or someone else.

It just makes sense to me to have a big-time playmaker, a guy that they can develop as a number one receiver, alongside Chris Olavé, in theory. And that kind of gives them an opportunity to compete now. Plus, you know, if he hits, you got a long-term asset there that is going to be giving them surplus value. you see what good receivers are making these days. Like that gives them a ton of value.

It just makes a lot of sense for me that they would start to invest again in that receiver core. I don't hate it because I just think that they should draft good players. Yeah. Like I know that sounds stupid to say. That's a very short way of doing it. Yeah. Well, the Saints are just not in a position where I think they can be choosy about need at

this point because I don't think there are that many guys on the roster that would prevent you from doing anything. Again, I think if they wanted to go with one of the same, the tackles here. And this is the team I was talking about with the guard to tackle move potentially. Let's say Will Campbell or Membu was on the board. You wanted to draft one of them, play them at left guard this year. You don't pick up Trevor Penning's fourth or fifth year option, which I think is totally reasonable based on how he's played. And then you can bump that guy to tackle next year. I think of one of those guys is available, that should potentially be on the board. I don't think there's

a single position defensively that should stop you from taking a dynamic defender if you like him more than the other guys here. Yeah. You look at corner, you know, Isaac Adam is on a very modest free agent extension that I think you could justify that as just corner depth if you wanted to take a corner here.

Demario Davis, I believe his contract voids after this year. And so if you wanted to take a Jalen Walker or a Jihad Campbell or somebody like that, you could absolutely talk yourself into it. And like you said, I think that's a very good set of arguments for McMillan. Who knows what Alave's future is going to look like.

Things are getting real scary there. She needs coming off an injury, even if he wasn't, his contract is up after this year. So I just feel like this is a team, whether they want to tell you they are or not, is close enough to the beginning of the process that you should just try to take

who you think is the best possible player here. Yeah, yeah. I've seen some people comp McMillan to like a, shoot, what's his not? Now I'm already blanking on his name. Mike, the slot guy. How am I already forgetting his name? Michael Thomas.

Sorry. I've seen him like people compare him you know body size body type athlete to like a to Michael Thomas type of player so I could see them kind of liking him to

in terms of just a guy who can attack on slants use his body to you know box out defenders things of that nature so it's crazy that I'm already forgetting his name that's weird what a weird end to that career by the way this is super aside yeah I mean it was the most productive receiver in the league and then like three years later was out of the league entirely

It's absolutely crazy. I mean, this team in general, like the fact that they did everything they could and leveraged themselves so hard to go get Alave and Penning. And penning seems like a miss at this point. Somebody, I think you feel comfortable moving on from if you had to. And Alave's future is a little bit murky. And they just have so few young building blocks. It's actually more than I thought, looking at over the cap. They do this interesting thing.

It's roster texture is how they refer to it. So essentially, it's the percentage of your contracts that fall under a certain banner. And they break it up into five categories with rookie. being one of the five categories. The Saints are actually 22nd in that measure. I thought it might be lower than that just based on how many picks they've traded away. But that's why this draft becomes so important is because on top of the cap stuff, the way I was talking about with the Saints, one of the things that I think has hampered them

even more than the salary cap decisions is just how flippant they've been with trading away draft picks. They just don't seem to care about them. They treat their picks like I just treated that 75th pick in the conversation about the Niners trading from 11 to 8. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're like, fine. Mickey Loomis has given less thought to trading away a middle, a third or fourth round pick

than I just did in this theoretical exercise. Yeah. So the fact that they have 940, 71, 93 from the Washington trade, 112 and 131 from the Washington trade. So they have six picks in the first four rounds, which is not normal for this team. They've made fewer draft picks than any other franchise in the league over the last 10 years. So whether they make or. all these picks is an entirely different conversation, but at least they have more of them than they typically do.

I was going to say, these picks are just absolutely burning a hole in Mickey Loomis' pocket right now. He cannot wait to get rid of them. Maybe they're a team to trade. That's why I think I've seen people connecting the Saints with the team that might trade up to number one overall, just kind of go for it because they've always been sort of that team. Maybe they don't have to go all the way to number one or whatever,

number two or number three. But they've been a team, like you said, that they zero in on guys. that they believe and they're very convicted on. And then they take them and they trade around and they trade up specifically to get those guys on their rosters. They don't think having all these extra fixes is useful. They kind of just like have these players that they really want to take and then they trade around to get them. So yeah, the idea that they have all these extra picks out of from some of these trades from last year makes me think that they're looking to move around.

Honestly, they'll probably trade up into the first from number 40. that would be like the least surprising thing I've ever seen to get like some other guy they think can be a starter. 93 or whatever. We'll get back in there. It doesn't really matter. We have too many. I have too many decisions to make here.

This is obviously off the board because he went number two overall. But I think it's worth exploring just because there's a very good chance, I think, that Shadoura Sanders slips a little bit. And if he gets outside of the top three, we start having these discussions on draft night. I'm picturing it right now. It's me and Dane and Derek Klasson. and I might as well spoil it out for you,

Bruce Feldman, who's going to be joining us for our draft show this year, it's me asking Dane and Bruce, hey, you know, do we think this is the Shadur Sanders team and me just doing it over and over and over again throughout the first round? So the Saints at 9, they're probably one of those teams. So as you look at this, and Shadur Sanders, if he were on the board for you in this hypothetical scenario,

would you take him over McMillan and the other options that I laid out for you? I don't think I would, But I think the Saints would. I think I like Ted McMillan a lot. I really think he's going to be a really good player in the NFL. I'm very confident in that. I feel like less, I think less confident that Shudor Sanders is going to be a top tier quarterback in the NFL.

I think there's just a lot more variance probably and clearly with with Shadur. That being said, like him going to a team like the Saints, they play indoors. You know, I think Kellen Moore has really has shown that he can design an offense that's suited to like, his players. So I think he could design a good offense. That would make sense for Shudur. You know, they've invested a lot in their offensive line. There's things to like about that landing spot for him.

And I don't know what they would do with their car at that point. Maybe they sit Shadur for a year and that maybe that's for the best. But I think like of all the landing spots in the top 10, it makes sense. But I personally, I think if Tett sitting there, it makes it hard for me to pick Shudder over Tett. Looking at the Saints cap this year, I mean, we're all wondering how much would they try to borrow from future years as they were trying to get under the 2025 cap? The big domino with that was the Derek Carr restructure, which they did. Essentially now, they're in a spot where they're going to have to do this same nonsense in 2026 again.

Like, they're probably going to have to restructure one or two guys. But because so many of the aging, expensive guys will likely be coming off the board next year or like it be coming off the cap or there's a chance they will, right? So Hill, Ramchek, Jordan, and Demario Davis, all of their contracts void after this year. So for the most part, the guys they've been kicking the can down the road with will be off the roster after this season. So even if we were to, let's say, restructure like Chase Young and Carl Granderson next year for them to get under the 2026 cap, if you cut Derek Carr, you're looking at $165 million in cap space in 2027. So no matter what happens over the next year or so, even if they keep having to do some of this stuff because of the position they put themselves in,

we are likely going to walk into 2027 with a relatively clean slate for the New Orleans saying salary cap. It took them two full years to undo it, but we're going to get there eventually. And I think as part of that, even if they don't want to call it a rebuild, it is a retooling and you just need some young building blocks

as part of that retooling. And so Ted McMillan is a good start. I think hanging on to most of your other draft picks to give yourself a couple more shots at those guys would be a good continuation. Yeah, which they won't do. I mean, look, they might have the last laugh and they might win the division. And then I'll just feel like, you know what? I'm going to stop doubting the Saints plan here. I'm just going to let them do their thing.

But let's say they win the division. Like, well, it almost feels like we're incentivizing. Yeah, exactly. To what end? All right. You went 10 and 7. You know, Carr was pretty good with Kellyn Moore. Maybe that means you can talk yourself into Carr again in 2026.

And, you know, potentially that's fine because they don't save a ton of money if they just straight out cut him. But he has a $69 million cap hit in 2026. So you're going to have to do something. So that means do you then restructure him again as part of this? Like I don't even, I don't think a 10 and 7 finish for the Saints team is actually a good thing for the long. long-term health of the Saints. Right, right. I don't know.

I don't know what to do. I love the fact that you brought up restructuring Chase Young. Did they just sign him like a month ago? But this is where we're at. Like, here are your options if you're the Saints. Restructuring Chase Young makes sense because he's only 27. The guys that have like restructurable contracts for them in 2026, your options are essentially most of the guys they just resigned.

It's like Justin Reed, Juan Johnson, Carl Granderson. Chase Young, Eric McCoy, Alvin Camara. Chase Young is 27 years old and easily the youngest player of that entire group. So that's why he's the best possible option to restructure if you had to do it next year. I love it. I love everything about the same. Next one here feels pretty clean in terms of the options available as the Chicago Bears at number 10.

Option one is draft ascenti. He is still available or I'm going to give you a slight hallway off of this. You can also take time. Tyler Warren, if that interests you. Yeah. So let's call this, I'm really fudging this here. Let's call this non-premium position offensive weapons. You can draft one with option one.

Sure. Option two was going to be draft Will Campbell or Armandbue if they're available. They are not available any longer. So that is off the board. So let's just call Tyler Warren option two then. So you get Ashen Gentied option one. Tyler Warren is option two. Option number three, draft a pass pressure.

Doesn't matter who it is. Doesn't matter where you're picking from here. your best pass rusher that you have available. What are you doing, Danny Kelly, if you are the GM of the Chicago Bears? This feels like such a trap. I'm taking Ashton Gentie here. I think, look, I understand all the arguments,

and I've been making some of these arguments that anti running back in the first round anti running back in the top 10. But I will say, of all the coaches that I would trust to like get the most out of a top tier running back pick, it would be the guy that the bears just hired. I don't know.

Obviously, the offensive line helped Ben Johnson designed a cool offense in Detroit. And that's like a huge, huge part of this. I think they've made some moves on the offensive line to try and just get back towards like the average point, you know, in the middle of league somewhere, which I think is a good thing.

They're not going to be the Lions this year. But, you know, having some average play would be great. I think using him in the passing game, he would have some really fun ideas on using him in the screen game, things like that. Genti really elevates the run game right away, gives him a guy who creates. The difference between him and DeAndre Swift is just massive,

in terms of like attitude, you know, physicality, intensity, just like the offensive line rallying around that guy, the offense in general rallying around that guy. I think he could change that the run game identity. I know this sounds kind of wishy-washy, Like, he could really change the identity of the run game a lot for them. And that could really help on the margins in terms of, like, their passing game. It could make the defense actually respect your run game, which helps.

So, you know, I think there are ways to defend this. I just think it would be really super fun. And it would be good for Caleb Williams. I think it would be good for Ben Johnson to have a top-to-year talent at running back that he could utilize. And it just makes that run game much more. You just have to respect it that much more. Now, that being said, I don't think he's going to. you know, they're going to have to keep working on that offensive line.

I think they can still do that in this draft in the second round or what have you. But to me, he's like the clear cut best player available for this team right here. And I do think you can you can make logical arguments, maybe not from like a salary point of view, but from a talent and overall impact on the offense point of view. I think you can make the argument that he's going to help the most here. I think it's a reasonable argument. In a vacuum, as we've talked about this on a more theoretical level

over the last, let's say, three weeks, whenever it's come up, I've always been like, eh, I don't know. And I think it's for a few different reasons. This, to me, it feels like a luxury pick to take a running back in the top 10. It just does.

And I just, it's hard for me. In a deep class at running back too, right? Yes, right? So this is a team with three picks in the top 41, I believe. So you could take a running back with either of those high second round picks if you wanted to, which we didn't point out about the Panthers before.

The Panthers have a late second round pick because they have the Rams second round pick as part of the Braden Fisk trade. They traded their second round pick to the bears as like a little sweetener for the number one overall pick trade a couple of years ago, which I love the fact that. That's still happening. We're still cashing in on that, which is very nice.

Yeah. So I think that because it's a deep running back class, you can potentially get one later, I think that's a good argument. If one of the offensive linemen were available, I think that would probably be my choice. And it's for this reason. Braxton Jones is going to be a free agent after this year. I was fine passing on guys like Ola Foshano last year

because Braxton Jones still had two years left on his rookie deal. Let's see if he's a guy that's worth potentially extending before we make a move to essentially replace him because you drafted darn all right win the top 10 two years ago. So you're not replacing that guy. Now with Braxton Jones coming off an injury and hitting free agency after the season, I think it's easier to talk yourself into replacing him as part of this overall plan.

So what Will Johnson would be theoretically, or Membu, is he's insurance across the entire line for this year. Let's say Jonah Jackson gets hurt, which he does, and you need a little bit of a stopgap. You have a guy like Membu, and then he could potentially be your long-term answer at left tackle. I liked that as a general idea. With both of those guys gone here now, now you're on to the tight ends as the best possible options, or pass rushers that all of them have questions. They're either tween or linebackers, which I don't think fits who the bears are.

They're solidified at linebacker, and those aren't the body types that I think Dennis Allen wants to seek out. Or you have guys like Shamar Stewart and Mikel Williams, who they may fit the body type question, but there are productivity issues. There are all definite question marks with both of those guys. So because of all of that, and because I have since watched Ashton Genti,

as I but between the time I last talked about this and now I have watched Ash and Jenti play football a lot I'm more open to this as an option than I probably wasn't a month ago is what I would say I think yeah and look I understand I could totally understand if people think this is silly and stupid I totally get that but I think what like you laid out

if they were to switch some picks around so you so you take a pass rusher here and then a running back in the second maybe so you get a pass rusher that has a lot of question marks, whether it's Walker with the size, whether it's, you know, any of the guys you mentioned that don't have the Stewart or Michael Williams, Michael Williams, both of those guys, the production, the productivity is really questionable. Obviously, they have a high ceiling, but right now, what are they providing in year one? There's, I think you could just, you can make

the same arguments with those positions as you can with running back, whereas I feel like Ashton Genty is going to be, you know, a very good. player for you right away and you're going to kind of like reap those benefits right away for a long time with him so i don't know so let me throw this out here for you just as a hypothetical okay let's say you take gentsy and nick scowarton from texas a and m is on the board for you with your second round pick that's option a or option b you take shimar stewart at 10 and you take travion henderson or the back from iowa whose name i can't remember right now you take him Caleb johnson you take him with your second round pick so those are your options

It's Gentie and Scowarton or it's Shamar Stewart and either Caleb Johnson or Trayin and Henderson. Which of those do you prefer? I think I prefer the first one, Gentie, with Scaritan. I think honestly, and you could sub multiple guys in for Scowarton if you don't like him. You know, princely, Uman Mielin, I think is interesting in that area. If Donovanezerakou from Boston College Falls, I think he's really interesting. There's a whole bunch of edge rushers. after you get into the second round that are, you know, potential picks there that I think people could like.

So, and this is someone that really likes Trevion Henderson. I think he's going to be explosive playing in the NFL. He's going to be really good in the passing game. But like, when you think about Caleb Williams style of playing where he's always trying to hold the ball and create big plays and make it make something out of nothing, I don't know if necessarily that's the best fit with a guy like Henderson where, you know, you're getting rid of the ball quickly. maybe that's what they want to do with William so I think that's maybe not like what he really wants to be doing most of the time I just don't know if you could get the true value

from Trayvon Henderson and also Trayman Henderson kind of similar in some ways to DeAndre Swift I think Genty is very different he's a lead back he's a volume back I don't think Omar in Hampton's going to be there in the second round when the Bears pick so that's why I didn't throw him in there because I just assumed he wasn't going to be available right now

it feels like he's probably not going to be he's probably going to be a late first and then I think like Caleb Johnson, I like him a lot, but he's not the difference maker that I see with Ash and Gentie. There's a huge tier drop there. So, yeah, I don't know. This is maybe going to look stupid in a couple of years. And honestly, like, the offensive line is really, really important. But I think there's also a bunch of offensive linemen I would take early in the second rounder.

If you're going to pay, if you're going to do it. That's probably better, right? I mean, if you want to take an offensive lineman at that spot, there are guys that are probably more appropriate early second round picks than they are guys you'd want. here or even to trade down. And one of the reasons trade down is not an option here is because we're trying to keep this contained to the picks that we're talking about. So if you get a great offer for 10 and you want to go from 10 to 16 or whatever, that may be a real life option available to Ryan Poles.

We're not doing this here because if we allow trades outside of the teams we're talking about, things would just go off the rails immediately. We're trying to keep things a little bit self-contained. I really like Gentie. Obviously, that's not a unique thought. But after watching him actually in depth, I love the way that he plays. His ability, like, press the hole and make his blockers better is so real. And he just has such a natural feel for what he's trying to do as a runner with a play

is trying to accomplish. And you combine that with some of the physical stuff. The man averaged over five yards per after contact per carry last year at Boise State. It gets absolutely insane. My one question about Ashton Jentee, I want to ask you before we move on. This is like my just being a curmudgeon about it just because I have to be. Are we a little bit concerned or should it matter at least a little bit that he did not work out or test? That we have absolutely no physical profile information on Ashton Jenty that's available to the public outside of whatever GPS stuff the teams have.

Does that worry you a little bit? Because I know that the draft guy answer to that is. Well, you just watch the tape. It doesn't matter. Sure. You think we would have liked to see some 40 times on Marvin Harrison last year, maybe? Yeah, yeah. Well, I think, yes, you have to be ever so slightly concerned.

And I'll say this. Like, I don't think, I think there is a little bit of overrating of Genty in terms of just like all-time running back prospects. I don't know if I put him in the same tier as some of the all-time guys, Sequin, Adrian Peterson, you know, going down the line. I don't know if I would really put him in that mold. but that being said, I think he's a really, really good player. You do have to have a small doubt just in the back of your mind that he didn't test. We don't know his exposure to numbers. We don't know his speed numbers.

And he's coming from playing at Boise State where, you know, the level of defense that he's going against for the most part is not, you know, as good as a lot of the other guys that he's playing against. So, or that he's that he's going up against in the draft. So, I mean, I think there's a little bit of that. But I don't know. You know, like at the end of the day, the content. balance is very apparent on tape. I think the skill set that he has in the passing game is very apparent. His vision, his creativity, elusiveness, toughness, physicality.

There's no question, like, his body type is great for the NFL. There's just, he checks a lot of boxes without seeing all the testing data. But I think you're right to have just a slight, you know, doubt in the back of your mind that it would have been nice to have a complete profile to really go fully all in on this. I was looking at guys just while you were talking because I'm with you. I don't think it's like a disqualifier. I just think it's worth bringing up just because the idea that a guy who's going to be drafted

outside the top five just being like, yeah, I'm just not going to test. I'm just not going to do it. I mean, we see that more often now, but it's typically somebody like Marvin Harrison or Travis Hunter who knows that guy's going in the top five. This feels a little bit different. Looking at just anecdotally running back soup and drafted that high

and how they've tested and what sort of athletes they are, It is a combination because we have guys like Adrian Peterson and Sequin, both of whom ran 4-4-flat, either at the combine or their pro day, which is very good numbers based on how big they are. But then there are other guys, Melvin Gordon ran a 452 and Todd Gurley didn't even run. He was coming off of injury. But there are plenty of examples of guys drafted very high that we don't have actual testing numbers on before they get picked. We could talk about the veracity of the Melvin Gordon pick in the first round. But there are examples of this sort of conversation in recent history. So it's worth bringing up.

All right. Let's take one more quick break here. And let's get to our last two teams. The Carolina Panthers, who have traded down from 8 to 11 and picked up a third round pick in the process from the Niners are now on the clock for you, D.K. Here we go. Let me go back up to my Panthers options because these are, I was like, we'll get my Niners options.

All right, this isn't as fun because I now thinks of me. I should have had one of those flow charts where I had two different options. I'm still getting to figure out the hang of this. This is our first trade that was accepted. So we're learning in real time. So here are your options if you were the Panthers. Draft any of the front seven players because none of them except for Abdul Carter had been taken. So you have your entire pick of any other front seven defender in the entire draft.

That is an option. Would you like one of the tight ends here? Because with Ted McMillan off the board, in theory, you could make an argument if you're the Panthers that that is your best option moving beyond that. I believe they re-signed Tommy Trembal this offseason. Two years, 10 million was the extension for Tommy Trembal. Again, I don't think that's preventing you from drafting Tyler Warren

if you want Tyler Warren in this spot. Or is there a receiver that it's not Ted McMillan that you feel like is worth taking with the, 11th overall pick. So those are your options. You can either take your favorite front seven player, you can take Tyler Warren, or you can take a receiver that we have not mentioned yet. So I'm really tempted to go like the Jalen Walker or Jihad Campbell route here.

You know, one of, maybe one, just like Shamar Stewart, Mikel Williams, just get like a really high upside pass rusher. That's kind of my first instinct. but I also think, you know, after trading out of that spot where they could have had Ted McMillan to help Bryce Young, I'm very inclined to go after Tyler Warren here. I think they have a, they don't have like a strong need at that, but I think what he can bring to their offense, both in the run game and in the passing game, not to mention maybe hell in the run game a little bit in terms of carrying the football. I think he's just really interesting for them in terms of like building an offense around Bryce Young. I don't think as it's built right now, that passing core is really going to help elevate Bryce Young. I think honestly, he looked incredible down the stretch last year.

A ton of, you know, positivity going forward that he could be a long-term answer for them as a franchise quarterback after looking like one of the worst picks in recent memory, you know, going into last season or really halfway through last season. But I think in terms of just like what they have in the passing game, Jalen Coker, Xavier Ligat, Adam Thielen, probably not long for the team. Getting a guy like Tyler Warren who can come in, play all three downs, he's going to be mixing it up for you as a run blocker. You know, you can trust him a little bit as to block in space to do some pass protection stuff on the edge. And then, of course, like run after the catch. Red zone stuff. He's 6-6-260 and just absolutely dominates to the catch point.

He has like that physicality of the catch point that you really like to see. Bryce Young has shown the ability to like, trust guys to go up and get the football. He's just kind of like a ball winner gives him that option. I know that, you know, Tommy Trembal, Jetavian Sanders. There's some like, you know, that people like them enough, I think, but they're not of the same level as a Tommy Trump, as a, as a Tyler Warren type of player. So I think he could really help elevate their offense.

And it is number one, it's like this is going to help Bryce Young right away. This is an interesting kind of conversation because I think it's a kind of conversation. because I think it's a conversation that a lot of teams are going to be having in real time as it relates to this draft. Do we want to take the guy that we think is the best player, even if two different fronts and considerations here? He's at a position when we don't have a screaming need

and it's a position that has just been devalued. Are we comfortable taking a guy at this spot at 10 or 11? I think the Bears will be having this conversation with Gentie having DeAndre Swift on the roster. I think the Panthers will be having this conversation about Tyler Warren, even with Tommy Trembal and Jatian Sanders on the roster. because if you're looking at it on paper,

the Panthers have way more needs on defense than they do, even at their past catching options, even if Ted McMillan was on the board. But all these defensive players, all of them have questions or holes. They're not as quite as kind of bulletproof of prospects as guys like Tyler Warren are considered to be. So I think that just as a discussion point is worth bringing up.

I will say it's hard to pass on defense if you're the Panthers, even if you are willing to concede the Tower Wars better player. So I'll throw one more in here for you because I did not give you this as an option. I know you like him. What if Jedi Baron was also part of this conversation from Texas? Because right now, as it currently stands, they still have J.C. Horn. They re-signed Mike Jackson to a pretty small deal. Again, I think you could justify that as corner depth.

So they probably still need another outside corner along with the front seven help that they need. Does that move you at all? are you still taking Tyler Warren here? I mean, it definitely is a very interesting choice. You're high on Judi Baron. I think he's like 13th or 14th on your big board, which is higher than a lot of people. I think he's 40th on Danes.

Yeah, he, I just think he's a great combination of fiery, ball skills, athleticism, versatility. I think he could play inside if you want him to or if you need him to. And I guess he just kind of like, reminds me of Devin Witherspoon a little bit. And so maybe that's why I'm like putting him so high on my board. But just a fiery, super, super competitive player with ball skills and versatility.

I still think I lean Tyler Warren here, even though that, I think that would be a good pick for them. I think that would make a lot of sense for them. But just Tyler Warren, I still think is sort of in that blue chip range where you're, the floor ceiling combination is so enticing that it's just kind of hard to pick them up. pick a, it's kind of hard to pass him up at that spot. I mean, this reminds me a little bit of what happened with Brock Bowers and the Raiders last year, where they already had Michael Mayer on the roster. Tight end was not the biggest need that they had, but they were just like, he's here. We're just going to pick the good guy.

That's what we're going to do. We're going to pick the guy who's good at football, which it's not the worst strategy. There are worse reasons and rationales, worse reasonings and rationales behind taking players in the draft other than we think he's the best player. All right. So you're sticking with this. Tyler Warren at 11. if you're making the pick for the Panthers.

Yep. All right. Stay true to my board. Let's get to 12. The Dallas Cowboys. Option number one, draft the running back. Ashen Genty is off the board,

but Amerihanpton is part of this. Big need for the Cowboys. So running back is available to you. Option two. Draft your past catcher of choice. McMillan gone, Warren gone, but we still have Matthew Golden. Still of course,

level and if you want to do that, Cowboys need some juice. However, they're going to, to find it. They desperately need it. Option three, this is the other very open-ended one here. Choose a defender, any defender. That can be barren. It can be Walker. It can be Williams. It can be Jahad Campbell. It can be Shemar Stewart. It can be Mike Green if you want it to be. So we're running back. Let's just say it's Omerian Hampton. Draft Omerian Hampton because I want to be, when I can be specific, let's try to be specific. You draft Omerian Hampton with option one. You draft a past catcher of your

choice with option two. Or you draft any front. player who is not Abdul Carter because that all of them are still available in this exercise. What are you doing if you are in charge of the Cowboys? I'm very tempted to look at a guy like Matthew Golden here. It would be a little bit high versus where he is on my board. I got him at like 20 something here. But I think, you know, they need someone to compliment CD at this point. You know, like I feel very confident like basically.

it's CD and then everybody else on that offense. It's kind of like the defenses can zero in on him. It just help everything they're doing on offense if they had other guys. But that being said, I still think you can get good receivers possibly in the second round and beyond. I think I'm going to just go with Jalen Walker here from Georgia. The hybrid linebacker slash edge rusher, they've had some success with another guy that sort of is that hybrid type of player.

In Michael Parsons, I'm not saying Jalen Walker is, anything close to Michael Parsons as a player, but I just think, you know, stylistically, explosive, high intensity, closing speed,

insane closing speed. He's just like a smart, good, tough, physical player who can line up at multiple spots on your defense and do different things for you. Get to the quarterback,

chase down plays from the backside, is just going to come in and be a good player for you right away. I really like Jeline Walker. Looking at their linebacker situation right now. the Cowboys' Def Chart is just fascinating. There's so many things that you'd forget happened. They traded for Kenneth Murray, so he is now on this team. Demerinoversh shown has a devastating knee injury last year,

so who knows what the timetable for him looks like. They signed Jack Sanborn, which I forgot that they did that, and also Matt Iberflus, right? So you have the Matt Iberflus connection. So he gets one of his Chicago guys. I think Sanborn is a more than capable starting linebackers just happen to be the odd man out in Chicago. go. So you have two guys in theory that you could start, but Murray is a low cost dice roll.

So you're really just in your mind taking the most explosive defensive player in Walker. And he is the highest defensive guy left on your board, right? As we look at all these guys. Yeah. Yeah, he's my highest ranked guy. You know, it fills a need, I think, for them in terms of pass rush depth, linebacker depth if they wanted to play him off the ball. I think a lot of people see Walker as kind of like a edge rusher at the next level.

I think he could do both if that's what you want to do with him. him. But he just gives you that flexibility, that depth. What would you do with him? One of the most important positions. I would probably, you know, I would have him rush the passer on passing downs and then, you know, see where he fits in terms of like early downs, whether it's, you know, as off ball linebackers, part-time rusher, edge guy. You could kind of move around depending on, on the different packages you're seeing.

But I think at the bottom, at the end of the day, he's going to give you a spark plug edge rusher guy. that can blitz, that can chase down the past, you know, chase down the pass or chase down the running back, just high energy, high intensity, and, you know, kind of just like give you that option to do a lot of different things in your defense. But I think mainly I see him as like a guy off the edge.

Looking at Micah's numbers pre-draft, I didn't realize how short his arms are. So he's 6-3, but he has 31-5-inch arms. Because that was the thing with Jay-Won-Walker. as I was looking at the Jalen Walker Edge Rush or stuff, I was like, man, only 6-1. He's not going to have to frame a lot of these other guys do just to pop down and do that.

But he actually has 32-inch arms. And so his arms are longer than Michael Parsons, even if he's about two inches shorter. So just something to throw out there as we think about what the transition for a guy like Walker might look like if he were to be rushed on the passer a little bit more in the NFL.

Yeah, the thing with him, too, is the way he uses his hands. He's just tenacious. rips, clubs, swim moves. He's a really good athlete, really good balance, tough, you know, at the point of attack. I just really think he's got a high floor. And then he has the ceiling to be a good pass rusher,

if that's kind of where they want to mainly use him. All right. Those are our six picks. Let's run through them again very quickly. At number seven, you have Armand Membue going to the Jets. That is over guys like Tyler Warren and Ted McMillan or any of the defensive players. I think it's totally reasonable. Number eight, we have a trend.

The Niners, moving up from 11, sending the 75th pick to the Panthers as part of this deal who moved down from 8 to 11. The Niners in this case take Will Campbell over everybody else that's available. We'll see where they play him in 2025. Maybe he's a long-term Trent Williams successor, but this feels like a, we're trying to get one of the last blue chip or high-end players in the draft available by moving up and doing this. At 9, the Saints, who are more of a rebuilding team than they want to admit. draft had McMillan from Arizona at number nine. Nice big physical presence to go with Chris Olivae and Rashid who's going to be a free agent after this year. At 10, the Bears pick Ash and Genti, which I'm slowly talking myself into by the minute.

I'm open to this with both tackles off the board. That's the only pick I feel a little bit like I'm cringing on of a little bit, but that's fine. Why do you say that though? Because I feel like so many people have tried to do this. Yeah. I think it's just because of the, I don't know, at this point, the, I don't know what the word is. It's just like running back in the top 10.

When is that going to work? You know, for, but it has worked at times. Obviously, you know, the lions are good example of when it seems pretty damn useful to have a guy like Gibbs. I don't, was he a 10th or 11th pick? I can't remember. He was the 12th pick in the draft. 12th pick. Yes.

So I guess that we're, that's, you know, a slight difference there. But they traded up for them. I mean, it's in the same general range, right? And yeah, I think that this to me brings me to the discussion we've had about running backs all year. I think part of the reason that we have not seen early drafted running back succeed is because the infrastructure for those teams is bad. That's why the teams are drafting in the top 10. And so if you draft a good running back into shitty infrastructure, you're probably not going to get a lot of results from that running back. Like, Zeeke worked out okay for the 2016 Cowboys,

right? Because that offensive wine was really good. And so there are moments when your offensive line is put together where you can see and reap the benefits from this. And I'm not saying the Bears of the 2016 Cowboys offensive line, but they might be good enough after what they did this offseason to warrant and to get the most out of a pick like this. Again, and if we're talking about it theoretically and just looking at positions, I would probably rather have a trench player with the 10th overall pick. But in this case, if both of those tackles are gone and we don't feel great about how polished some of the edge rushing options are that are available.

I can get going this direction if you're the bears, even if I, in my bones, it makes me feel a little bit uncomfortable and squeamish. That's pretty much where I am too. Yeah. The Panthers trade down from 8 to 11. They get Tyler Warren from Penn State.

I'm sure Panthers fans are going to love this one. I'm sending them to you immediately with all the, all the mentions here. And then the Cowboys at 12 take J.O. and Walker over O'Mary and Hampton and Matthew Golden. So those are our picks. Which one are you feeling best about if Genty's the one you feel worst about? I think I'll go with Ted McMillan to the Saints.

I think he just makes a ton of sense for them short and long term. And they don't have a ton of depth right now at the receiver position. He's going to help their quarterback, whoever that is. I just really like Ted. And I think that's a good value for them right there. I love Will Campbell going to the Niners. I just want them to have better offensive alignment. And I also think Membu going to the Jets and the opportunity.

That one feels nice too. Yeah. Well, if you look at it, I mean, it's just one of those, I just love these. Like, I just, I'm a person where if there's one thing missing and you drop it in and the rest of it just goes green, like there's something so satisfying to my brain about that. And that's what Membu feels like. So now you go left to right. You have Fashana there stepping in in the second year. You have John Simpson.

Whatever they do at center. The Josh Myers thing was interesting. Like, I was surprised he didn't have a bigger market. And I'll be curious how they see him. Like, are they think it's a real competition with it? minute center. The best guy win. Either way, it just feels like good depth. So I trust that they'll find a good answer there no matter what. You have A Veritucker, right guard. And then you have Membu at right tackle. It's like, all right. And now we got Justin Fields and Breece Hall. Like, I'm cool with

this team running the ball 47 times a game if that's going to be their approach. Like, that's a weird version of the Jets that I can get behind. And I mean, one of the reasons, I don't think they've explicitly said this, but it's very easy to connect the dots. Justin Fields destroyed. Justin' Aaron Glenn over the last few years. If you look at Justin Fields Detroit games and then you look at the rest of the games, there is a disconnect between those two samples. And I have to assume that was driving some of Aaron Glenn's excitement about getting to coach Justin Fields because he's had a hard time dealing with him. I love that.

That's always the best is when you look up what someone got in free agency and you're like, oh, I get it. Because he had eight catches for 200 yards against this coach last year or whatever it is. it's always funny but yeah it's like when I look at the jets if you like I like to you put that where you put it in place and it all goes green it's like it's the final piece of the puzzle and everything lights up the last infinity stone

or whatever has it ever been a bad thing to have an elite offensive line like is that ever been something where you're like oh that didn't really help or whatever like it's only going to help it's only going to give you a better chance of winning football games

so I do really like that one as well I want to read off to you Justin Fields as rushing lines against the lions in 2020 and 2023 okay game one against Detroit week 10 2022 13 carries for 147 yards and two touchdowns game two against Detroit week 17 10 carries for 132 yards game three against Detroit in week 11 of the 23 season, 18 carries for 104 yards. Last game against Detroit in those two years, 12 carries for 58 yards and a touchdown. So he had running back box scores over those two years

when they were playing against the lion. So I can understand why Aaron Glenn thinks that Justin Fields is a dangerous player. I love that. That's great. I'm kind of getting excited about, from a fantasy point of view, it's definitely really intriguing because I'm like, man, if Justin Fields ends up being the starter and just rushes for 1,200 yards or whatever it is. He could break fantasy football.

So that's going to be a lot of fun to kind of parse out that's going to go. Very excited about that. And for the emotional journey that the Jets are going to go on with having Justin Fields as their course started quarterback. I can tell you a lot about how that goes. DK., before we get out of here, please tell people where they can read, listen, check out all the stuff that you're doing. You can check out the big board at NFL draft.org.com. You can listen to the ringer NFL draft show, which we got two shows going every week. and then, you know, I think we're going to pick it up in the final week of the draft.

And yeah, those are the two main places. Check out the ringer.com. And you guys will be here in Chicago, draft week, right? Yes, we're going to be in Chicago the week of the draft. We got a live show at Lincoln Hall. What is it? Lincoln Hall. It is a beautiful venue in Chicago.

It is a place I've been to many concerts at, and my friends actually got married at Lincoln Hall, which is a very fun wedding. But it's a great venue. So if you guys are interested, said please go check out the ringer guys at that spot because it's awesome. Appreciate that. Yeah.

Super excited to go to Chicago. Are you guys going to be here all week? No, we're kind of in and out Monday through Wednesday. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, I'll talk to you about it because I'll be, I'll be here if you were curious. Our draft show is also likely going to be in Chicago this year.

If you can imagine the available studio space in Green Bay, Wisconsin is somewhat limited. Yeah. All right, guys. That's all we got for today. as always, thank you so much for listening. Like I alluded to her a little bit earlier in the show, me and Derek will be back tomorrow, chatting about just some teams that have a lot writing

on the 2025 draft. And then Dane is going to be joining us later this week. I mentioned this on last week's shows. Because Dane is finishing up the Beast, we're actually not going to have a show on Thursday this week. We're going to be recording it on Thursday for Friday. So schedule this week, Mabag, this show on Tuesday,

me and Derek on Wednesday, and then me, Dan and Derek talking about the running backs in this year's class on Friday. So please be on the lookout for that. For now, that's all we got. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you very soon.