The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - On the Clock, picks one through six: A quarterback goes first...and second

Episode Date: March 25, 2025

Welcome to the debut of On the Clock, a new draft exercise on The Athletic Football Show. Every week, a draft analyst will join Robert Mays to cover six or seven picks in the 2025 NFL Draft, considering a trio of potential decisions for each of the teams in question. By time we get to the end of it, we'll have built an entire first round mock and had some interesting discussions along the way. Jordan Reid of ESPN is Robert's guest for the maiden voyage of On the Clock.Host: Robert MaysCo-Host: Derrik KlassenWith: Jordan ReidExecutive Producer: Michael BellerProducer: Michael BellerSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTubeFollow Robert on Bluesky: @robertmays.bsky.socialFollow Derrik on Bluesky: @qbklass.bsky.socialFollow Jordan on Bluesky: @jordanreid.bsky.socialFollow Robert on X: @robertmaysFollow Derrik on X: @QBKlassFollow Jordan on X: @Jordan_ReidTheme song: HauntedWritten by Dylan Slocum, Trevor Dietrich, Ruben Duarte, Kyle McAulay, and Meredith VanWoert / Performed by Spanish Love SongsCourtesy of Pure Noise / By arrangement with Bank Robber Music, LLC Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. We're doing something fun today. We are going to kick off a series of shows that we're going to do over the next five weeks before we get to the draft. That's not dissimilar to an exercise we did last year. If you guys remember, we did mock draft Monday's last draft season where me and Nate went through the entire first round and kind of mock certain players to certain teams. We went from 32 to 1 and it was kind of messy because there was actually no order or no set selection of players.

so guys weren't off the board when we were having those discussions. It's the first time we did it and you learned stuff along the way. So we wanted to do something that was sort of similar to that this year, but change a couple of the details about it to something that we felt fit a little bit better. So what we're going to do this year is we're going to break this up into five shows. We're going to do picks one through six, seven through 12, 13 through 18, and then all the way until 32. We're going to break it up into five shows. What I'm going to do is we're going to have five separate guests on those shows.

shows. And for each of these picks, I'm going to put them in the GM share, put them on the clock with these teams, and give them three different options. Some of these are going to be players. Occasionally, they're going to be trades. We're going to try to keep the trades contained to just the teams we're talking about on that show so it doesn't send things kind of a miss when we talk about other teams. We have to keep track of where the picks are, et cetera. But for the most part, it's going to be three players, three choices for these guys sitting in the GM chair while they're on the clock and then we're going to keep track of this. We're going to figure out who is left, who's been drafted, and by the end of it, we are going to have a one through 32 draft by the time

we get to the end of April and to the 2025 draft. To help me kick this off, I appreciate him being the first one to do this and kind of learning on the fly as we go. We welcome Jordan Reed from ESPN. Somehow we've never had him on the show. It does great work as part of their draft coverage team. So let's kick off our on the clock series with Jordan Reed from. ESPN right now. Joining us today for the first installment of our on the clock series on the athletic football show. It is a first time guest, which I am not sure how it took this long, but I'm very happy to

have him on the show today. It's Jordan Reed from ESPN. Jordan, how you doing, man? I'm good. I'm not going to hold it against you, man. I've been a longtime listener of the show and I've always enjoyed it. So it's a pleasure being on here. I will say, for the most part, because we have Dane and the hopper, the guests for the

draft part of the year are not quite as important as the guest for the rest of the year. But obviously, Dan is a lot of things that he has to worry about. And we're doing more draft shows this year than we did last year. So very happy to use that space to incorporate a lot of the draft voices that I respect around the space and very happy to get you involved. And you're the guinea pig of sorts here because we are starting off this series of shows. We've never done this before. This is a slight tweak on a concept we tried last year.

It's always a little trial and error, right? you learn lessons whenever you trot something out for the first time. We went back to the drawing board. We watched the tape. And there were some things that we wanted to do a little bit differently this year. And I think this is going to go a little bit more smoothly. For everyone who listened to the intro, you know the rules here. We're going to go through every team in the first round over the next five weeks.

We're going to break it up into five separate shows. We're going to give Jordan three options for each team that we're going to talk about here, picking one through six in the draft. And you are going to pick one of the three options I give. of you. You're allowed to push back on this, by the way. If the three options are unsatisfactory, if I didn't do a good enough job, you can get upset and we can talk about what else you would want to do with these picks. So don't feel boxed in by the concept. I'll blame you for not working the phones good enough on draft day if I don't like the trade back option.

So that's another part of this. And again, I mentioned this a little bit in the intro. We are going to do some trades in this show, but in order to make sure that we don't lose the plot entirely and we don't go full multiverse where there's different things happening across the entire draft and we have to account for them, the butterfly effect, keeping it in check. The only trades that are going to be allowed are trades within these picks. And that makes a lot of sense for the top five more than some of the other ones. But that's the one thing we're going to have to fudge here because trades are fun, but I don't want to send this spiraling in a direction where we get, we totally don't have

a handle on it anymore. I got you. That works for me. Let's start with the Tennessee Titans, who I own the number one pick in the draft. They sent everyone involved with the history of their organizations. to Cam Ward's pro day today, so maybe sending a little bit of a signal about what they want to do with the number one overall pick. Here are your three options for the Tennessee Titans who are now on the clock at number one. Option one, draft Cam Ward with the first pick. Seems like a reasonable

thing to do at this point. Option two, this is our first trade scenario. You can trade the first overall pick to the Giants for numbers three, 34, and a 2026 second round pick. If Option two, then we'll talk about the Giants, we can flip that a little bit. For option three, which is, you know, maybe a little bit further off the beaten path, but we'll consider it here. You take Abdul Carter with the number one overall pick. With those three options, what are you doing if you're the Tennessee Titans? I'm taking the quarterback, Robert, and I mean, it's simple.

Like, you don't have a lot of opportunities to have the number one overall pick. And it's been interesting over the past month or so. And I even put this in my mock draft, like all of the steam coming out of the combine was that the shop and the pick, you know, want to move out of number one if they don't take Abdul Carter at the top. And I even had the exact same trade scenario that you proposed to me with the second option. Instead, I had a third round pick instead of a second round pick in 2026.

So the biggest rumor coming out of the combine was that Tennessee wanted to move back. They were not in love with any of these quarterbacks. But as they began to meet with Cam Ward at the combine and then all the other meetings that they have had with him, it seems like they've really fallen in love with him. They've been infatuated with him. I've been a huge fan of Cam Ward going back. to that Florida game where he was just running all over the field and making miraculous throws.

And every year we have that quarterback that really just catapults himself up the board. And Cam Ward has really been that guy this year. And I've went back and forth about this so much. And I try to put myself in Mike Burgundy's shoes, the new GM there. And basically, I said, would he be comfortable in year one tying his tenure to anyone of these quarterbacks, whether Shador Sanders or Cam Ward? But it seems like he's comfortable doing that now. And all signs point towards Cam Ward.

Ward being a number one overall pick. So I'm going to stick and pick and take the quarterback here. I don't blame you at all. I actually watch that Florida game this morning. I come to the quarterbacks and just the draft process a little bit later than most. We're doing the quarterbacks later this week with me and Derek and Dane. So I watched that Florida game this morning. And I totally understand what you're seeing in that game.

There is a lot to love about what Cam Ward is bringing to the table. We talked about this a little bit last week. Independent of the Cam Ward part of this, whether you like him at one, if he's not going to be the quarterback for the Titans at this point, who is or who would be the quarterback for the Titans. You did your mock draft before free agency started. So in theory, you could land on a Sam Darnold. You could get a veteran quarterback.

But the fact that now the dust has settled, they haven't chased anyone and they haven't even really talked to anybody. There haven't even been murmurs or rumors of them discussing anything with a veteran stopgap quarterback. It really does feel like as the seats have started to get filled here, this feels like the most logical conclusion, even independent of whether Cam, Ward is deserving of the number one pick. And I think more and more people are getting comfortable with the fact that he is

deserving of that number one pick. Yeah, I agree. And I mean, when you go out and you beef up the offensive line like they have done, giving Dan Moore $82 million, which is another discussion for another day for a lot of people. You bring in a veteran stopgap and Kevin Zitler, so you figure out that guard spot as well. And like you mentioned, they haven't done anything besides bringing in Brandon Allen as a backup to Will Levis, who knows what happens with that situation, assuming that They do select Cam Ward.

So I think you're spot on as far as they haven't done anything as far as addressing the quarterback spot. But they've been really aggressive with a sure enough their offensive front, which to me, the science points to where you can read the breadcrumbs leading us to really them taking a quarterback at number one overall. I totally agree with that. The Kevin Zitler one to me sends the most signal because that's a one-year stopgap option.

This is a team that's probably a couple years away from competing. You want a 35-year-old right guard if you know you need to protect a rookie quarterback. if you know you need to drop that guy into a good situation. And that's exactly what's happened. I want to talk with you a little bit more about Cam Ward as a prospect, because we haven't dug into this a lot. So I'm curious just about how you see him compared to previous quarterback classes and then the rest of this class.

Because I think a lot of people have framed this as a weak quarterback class. And compared to last year, I understand that. There aren't seven guys that can go in round one. Maybe there's one and a half that can. But that doesn't mean that that doesn't make Cam Ward a worse prospect, even if there are fewer quarterbacks we're taking in the first round. So as you look at him and you compare him to the sort of prospect that maybe, even if we get outside of the top three guys, a Michael Pennix was or a Bo Nix was,

or even a guy like Jaden Daniels, what sort of quarterback do we think we're talking about here with Cam Ward in your estimation? So I was on the Dominique Foxworth show about two weeks ago, and there was a viral clip that they posted saying that I would take Cam Ward ahead of J.J. McCarthy in last year's class. I just forgot Jay-Cardier. Yeah, and I mean, for whatever reason, everybody's using last year's quarterback class as the standard, and I get it. Like we had six guys go inside the top 12, which is phenomenal, something that we had never seen before.

But when I'm stacking those guys and I place Cam Ward in that tier, I still would have Caleb Williams, Jaden Daniels, and Drake May ahead of him as a prospect. But I like him more than I liked J.J. McCarthy coming out in Michigan last year, just because you talk about the arm strength that he has, the poise, that he plays with. But I just love quarterbacks that have that underdog mentality. And everywhere that he's been, he's changed the program, whether it's in Cardin and Word, Washington State, and then most notably at Miami. But every time I look at Cam Ward,

like he just makes that extra play to help catapult them to victory. And I know a lot of that was his own wrongdoing in some games. But I look at the Cal game. I'm not sure if he watched the Cowell game. He was not good at all in the first half of that game. Virginia Tech, which came down to the last second. And every single one of those games, he was just able to make that extra play to help them to victory. And something else you have to remember, he was playing against two defenses every week.

He was playing against his own, which was giving up 40 points a game. And he was going against the regular defense. So he just fits the prototype and the modern day quarterback that we're looking at, whether it's, you know, guys like who I consider the top four in the class, or excuse me, in the NFL this year, Lamar Jackson, Patrick Mahomes, you know, Joe Burrow and then Josh Allen, you could put them in any order that you want to. That's like the four guys at the top. And not saying Cam Ward is going to be in that tier, but he has a lot of the qualities that

we like in all of those guys. And all those guys that I just named, these are the players he's going to have to beat in order to go to the Super Bowl. So do you feel like he has the traits or the requisite traits to eventually get you over the heel to beat those guys in the playoffs? So I think Cam Ward has the ability to be a high-level starter. But another thing that I'll add is he's going to have to go to a coach that understands how to straddle the line of letting him be him,

but also have to rein him in a little bit as well. And then the player that I compared him to was Jordan Love coming out of Utah State. And if you remember, he was a very polarizing prospect as well, just because everybody loved the traits with Jordan Love. But he just had a couple head scratching plays per game where you were like, man, what the hell were you thinking on that throw? But that's kind of the thrill. That's kind of the intriguing part with Cam Ward.

And if you think about, you know, guys that we see in the league every day, that are playmakers like Mahomes and Josh Allen, they have a lot of those plays like, what I call, no, no, no, great job. So there's a lot of thrill when we're talking about the playing style of Cam Ward. And that's why I think Tennessee has really become intrigued with him with the number one overall pick. Jordan Love is the first name that I would mention when watching him. When I watch those two games this morning, again, it's my first real in-depth dive into who Cam Ward is, just the way that he's moving around the pocket, both good and bad, right?

There's a little bit unnecessary pocket movement. he drifts a little bit, he's backpedaling a little bit. But you combine that with some of the creative stuff he can do as a thrower, and you get some of the good and some of the bad with who Jordan Love is. So that was the first comp that I would make. It's nice to hear somebody else say that. And the last thing I'll say about Tennessee and why I feel like, even if we consider Cam Ward an imperfect prospect,

and maybe not the type of guy we typically see go number one overall at quarterback, especially when you compare it to some recent classes, if you're at Tennessee, you've got to do this at some point. You've got to pull the trigger at some point. on a future plan at quarterback, who knows what's going to happen in 2026. You trade down to three, you pick up some extra picks along the way. There's no telling that you're going to be in range to draft another one of those guys next year.

And so running the risk of doing that, even if on a spreadsheet it makes sense because you need some more picks, I think there's a lot of downside in that decision. So them just doing this now, making sure they get it done because Ward clears the bar and is worthwhile of this sort of pick, I think it makes a lot of sense for where Tennessee is right now, even in year one of a new front office. Let's get to the Cleveland Browns. Now with Cam Ward off the board, the Cleveland Browns are on the clock at number two. Here are your three options with the Browns.

Option one, drafts your door Sanders at number two or any quarterback. I'm going to leave that door a crack open for you. Maybe there's somebody else that you think is worthwhile there. Option two, draft Abdul Carter, the pass rusher from Penn State. Option three, you draft Travis Hunter. Nobody's trading up for this number two. pick here. Nobody's making calls. So these are your three options for the Browns at two. Which direction are you going? I'm taking the quarterback. And I mean, it's simple. This regime,

this regime has to win next year, man. And like I've been telling everybody, I think it's an easier pill to swallow if you win five or six games next year with a visible plan at quarterback in place, as opposed to you win five or six games next year with no visible plan at quarterback. And you're stuck in the situation again, and there's no telling if you're going to be at the top of the draft, or excuse me, inside the top three, or having the second overall picking next year's draft. And everybody likes to look at the next quarterback class, but we have no idea what's going to happen next year. So if I'm always in opportunity, or if I'm always in position to take a quarterback, I'm always going to take that guy. And if I think about it, like all the quarterbacks

that Kevin Stefanski has had success with, even going back to his days in Minnesota, they're very similar to Shedora Sanders, those prototypical pocket passes. that win with accuracy, really good ball placement. They can play from under center. They can play off a play action. Even though they're not overly great athletes, they have just enough ability to get out of harm's way. So I think Shador Sanders,

he compares very favorably to some of the quarterbacks that he's had success with in the past. And I just think Cleveland has to take a quarterback. And I know Shadoura Sanders is not going to be the number two ranked player on anybody's big board at this point, in my honest opinion. But if you're in position to take a quarterback in your Cleveland, I just don't see a scenario of where you can pass on a quarterback right here.

It's a very good argument and one that I haven't heard a lot of, this idea of, all right, if you're going to win five or six games anyway, is it easier to justify another year for the front office and the coaching staff if you have a rookie quarterback that you can say, all right, we're going to have some development into year too. Like the arrow is pointed up. I know this wasn't good for the second straight year, but give us another shot because we're building towards something rather than, we don't know who the quarterback is going to be again. That being. said, and this is how I've laid this out, and this is how I talked about it with Dane last week, and I'll do the same thing for you and give you two more options.

You can take Shador Sanders at two and then draft whoever the best prospect is available at 35, and whether it's an edge rush or whether it's a receiver, whoever, this team has a lot of needs. Or you can take Abdul Carter at two, who might be the best player in the entire draft independent of position, and you can take a quarterback whoever's there at 35. Do you think there's any justification and any merit to that set? and option because of how good Carter is and maybe because there's not that big of a gap between who Sanders is and the rest of this group of quarterbacks.

I think it just comes down to how closely you have Sanders and let's just assume Jackson Dart is their third ranked quarterback right now. If there's not a huge discrepancy between the two, then of course, you go with Carter and then you take Jackson Dart at the top of the second round or if you want the fifth of your option, you could trade up into the back end of the first round or wherever he is at that point. So I think it just comes down to how far of a discrepancy that you have between or the differences, I should say, between their grades at this point. I don't have Jackson Dart graded that highly. I think he's more so of a late, second, early third round pick. And my honest opinion, and I think it's just more so of a lack of

supply and a lot of demand with these quarterbacks. And we see this every year in the draft. This guy just magically comes up the board. And I think Jackson Dart is that guy this year. So once again, it just comes down to how much of big of a difference that you have between the grades of Sanders and then also Dart. How big is the difference for you? Like, do you have Shadur Sanders definitively as a first round player or is he a little bit further down and you're just not quite as high on Dart as some other people? I'm just not as high as on dart as some other people, but I do have Sanders late one early two. That's the grade that I have. He's my 19th ranked overall prospect.

So he's in that late one early second round range right now. So that's not too bad. You taking your 19th rated prospect of number two overall if it's a quarterback. That's a bridge you feel comfortable crossing. Yeah. And I mean, it just, and I'll back up. So if this was Kevin Stefanski and Andrew Barry's first year, I think without a doubt, they take Abdul Carter if he's there without question.

But with the Deshaun Watson mess and everything that has created and then also them having to win next year, I just don't see a scenario where they can pass on a quarterback, just because when you have a quarterback, and let's say you win five or six games, you can go into Jimmy Haslam's office and say, hey, we have a visible playing at quarterback. Just let us see it through. Let us develop Shador Sanders, whoever they take. And now just let us see it through that point as opposed to we have Abdul Carter, who's an amazing player, but we still have question marks at quarterback in 2026.

I'm going to lay one more hypothetical out here for you, just because I think this is fun. Okay. You're Andrew Barry. You call Terry Fontno a week before the draft. and say, all right, we are willing to trade you a fourth round pick if you'll eat half of Kirk's base salary this year. So you're paying $13.5 million. When we trade for him, we'll convert that into a signing bonus. We'll make his cap hit $5 million, whatever it is this year.

We'll spread this out. Kirk Cousins is our bridge answer at quarterback if we're Cleveland. The only way Kirk agrees to that is if you are not drafting a quarterback at number two overall or in the first round, period. are you open to that solution if you are Andrew Barry and Kevin Stefansky? I'm not. Just based on how Kirk looked last year post Achilles tear and then what we saw from him and that sample size that he did play, I just wouldn't feel comfortable having Kirk Cousins as my starter just because of how we looked from the sample size that we saw from him.

That's totally fair. I throw that out there because the Browns are also one of those teams where we're running out options, man. We're at the Russell Wilson Joe Flacco stage of this. And so throwing one more name into the. mix to make it feel a little bit more appealing. I thought might get you there, but I understand going that direction. I think that they're in such a unique spot where they can't really afford anybody where they don't have that many options. They may have to do something that smells a little bit like

a desperation move, but they're in a spot where they might need a desperation move. So I can completely understand them going that direction if it comes to it. Yeah, I mean, I just don't, I just don't see how you can be comfortable going into the years. Based on what we saw last year, I wouldn't be comfortable going into the year with Kirk Cousers as my starter. I think you need, no matter what happens here if you're Cleveland, there needs to be a very clear and honest conversation with ownership before this pick happens about what the expectations are this year. Because I think you could sell it to the Hazams where you say,

listen, I understand we had a terrible season last year. I understand things need to get better. But it is the wrong, long-term move for the Cleveland Browns, for us to pass on a guy like Carter or two and take a quarterback just to do it. let's just feel this out for another year. Let's get another elite player in the building. We'll find a solution at quarterback next year when there are better solutions at

quarterback. Whether or not they buy into that plan is an entirely different discussion. But I think the conversation is at least worth having if you're Andrew Barry and Kevin Stafansky because of the unique circumstances that you're playing under right now. Yeah, I agree. And I think that's the first thing that they should have had that conversation a few weeks ago when they were starting to build out the drive board. And I'm sure they did just because I'm sure Abdul-Card is very.

high on their board and there's going to be a huge discrepancy as far as their grade between probably the quarterbacks on here and then also Abdul Carter. All right, we're going to take a quick break and then we're going to come back with the New York Giants at number three. All right. At number three, the New York Giants are on the clock. This is the first wrench that we've thrown into this. I had draft Shadur Sanders as one of the options for the Giants.

He's no longer involved. So here are your three choices if you're the Giants. Option one. Draft Abdul Carter or Travis Hunter, whichever one is left on the board, both of them are left. So you can have your pick of either of them. Now, option two, draft Mason Graham, who was, I think, went fifth overall in your most recent mock draft to the Jags.

So you have him as a top five player, the defense tackle from Michigan. Option three, because both quarterbacks are gone, I'm letting you choose your own adventure here. If there's a wild card that you would rather have than either Abdul Carter or Travis Hunter, you can make that pick here if you are the Giants. So which of those three options are you going with? Well, just backtracking a little bit perfect scenario is Shador Sanders falls to them or they call Cleveland and they try to trade up for the quarterback one more spot. But in this scenario, I'm taking Travis Hunter.

I think Travis Hunter is the best player in this draft. And I think this guy is like so rare, Robert. It's very rare to see a guy not only play one side of the ball and be so good at it, but also go to the other side and be just as good or even better at it as well. I have him as a cornerback, but he's so good, a lot of teams possibly see him as a receiver as well. And the player that, the only comparison that I can find for him, and I did this one before the season, was Champ Bailey when he was coming out of Georgia. And if you remember, Champ played over 100 reps his final year each game in the final eight games of his final year at Georgia. So very comparable to Travis Hunter.

He played, I believe he averaged 115 snaps a game last or this past season. but a scout put something to me that I thought was really interesting in that a lot of people were saying that Travis can't play both ways, but he believed that he can just because the tempo of the game is much slower in the NFL. And what he meant by that is teams are huddling much more periodically in the NFL. But if you think about it in college, they're snapping the ball as quickly as they can. That's why his rep count was so high. And the tempo of the game was much quicker in college.

Now, the speed of the game is obviously going to be different in the NFL. is going to be much quicker just because everybody is bigger, faster, stronger. But with everybody huddling up and the tempo of the game being slower, he possibly can play both sides of the football now. So I thought that was a really interesting quote that made me think about or rethink a little bit about Travis Hunter playing both ways just because I would play him at corner full time and sprinkle him in maybe 20 to 25 plays a game as a receiver. But that quote really made me rethink things a little bit.

I think that makes total sense. I think that is the easier way to do it, just being in the defensive meetings, being a full-time defensive player and then getting to Moonlight as a receiver. You can correct me, am I wrong about, if I'm wrong about this, you'd know more about it than I would. At Colorado, they were signaling routes into him, correct? Isn't that a lot of how the mechanics of it worked for him to understand what he was supposed to do on offense because his meeting time was full-time as a defensive player? So in the NFL, I'm really curious about that.

Like, if he is going to be a full-time defensive player, and that's where his meeting time is going to be, what are the mechanics of him getting the information look like? Because even if you're huddling, is it a situation where, all right, you have Brian Dable on the headset, and he's talking to, I don't know, name your quarterback, I guess it's Russell Wilson in this situation. He's talking to Russ in the headset and he's saying, you know, we're, I don't know, ace, right, slot, whatever bullshit. And then Travis is lined up in the slot and he's running a corner. Like what does the actual communication process look like because of how limited

the meeting time is going to be. The answer to that I'm fascinated by, and whatever team chooses him, how they land on just the distribution of his time and time management is going to be a really, really cool thing to parse through. Yeah, that's a great point. But just to push back on that, now he's just worried about football.

So I think if anything, he's going to have more meeting time than anything and not really have to worry about going to class and all these other things that are associated with college. So I don't think the meeting time is really going to be a big problem at all just because he's going to have more time to allocate to the actual meeting space in the meeting room of everything. Now, on defense, I think it's a little bit more easier than offense per se, just because the terminology and the different routes that he would have to run different concepts. With defenses, you really can just have somebody tell them, or, you know,

I've seen some teams in college keep that guy closest to their sideline and just signal in whatever the coverage is. So little things like that I've seen done with defenders. With the Giants, specifically, I think the plan of him playing quite, corner and then playing a little bit of receiver makes sense based on the rest of their depth chart. The Giants could still use another corner here. I mean, they signed Pulsin-A-Dibo and Free Agency, but Deante Banks has been a little bit up and down. So if you want to move a Debo inside, potentially, whatever, even though Drew Phillips is there, how the room shakes out, I think that's going to be something they have to figure out. But in your mind, he's good enough that it doesn't really matter.

You're taking him and then figuring the rest out later. Yeah, I mean, just imagine the headache, him and Malik neighbors would cause. like garden both of those dudes would be an absolute nightmare for defenses. Let's get to the New England Patriots at number four. Option one with the Patriots on the clock was if available, draft Travis Hunter or Abdul Carter. That is obviously on the table for them with Apple Carter still being on the board. Option two, draft Will Campbell or Armand Membue with the fourth overall pick.

In this scenario, a little note here, the Patriots have not signed a left tackle and free agency. So there is a huge glaring hole for them at that spot. Option three, because so many players are available here and I didn't want to box you in, is draft your front seven player of choice for the New England Patriots. So among those three options, which direction are you going? I think you go with Abdul Carter. You take best player available. And I think the most interesting thing about New England's offseason so far is that most of their resources have been allocated to the defensive side of the ball.

I mean, they've signed Milton Williams. They signed Harold Landry. They signed Robert Spillane as well, Carlton Davis in the secondary. So they've spent a ton on the defensive side. They really haven't touched outside of Morgan Moses. They really haven't touched the offensive side at all. So I think they're going to attack the offense heavy in the draft. But if somebody like Abdul Carter falls to you, I definitely think you have to take him at number four overall,

just because this team is just starved for talent on both sides of the ball. And even though we don't have that high-end. tackle prospect in this year's class, I think that's going to work in the Patriots favor, just because there's no Joe Ald or anybody like that in this year's class. So I think there's going to be a player for them at the back end of the first round or even at their pick in the earlier parts of the second round that still could be there for them, whether it's somebody like an Ariante ursary out of Minnesota that I think

could be a starter within his rookie year. So you get Abdul Carter, you pair him along a defensive line with the Bilton Williams and Harold Landry. Now you're starting to stack those players that you can build around. And I'm just thinking like building a defense around Abdul Carter, Milton Williams, Christian Gonzalez, Christian Barmore. Now we're talking like serious building blocks on this defense from a year ago that really was invisible just because of the lack of talent that they had on the defensive side of the ball. So I would take Abdul Carter here without question. And then I will look to possibly move up into the back end of the first round or just stick and pick at the top of the second round to address left tackle.

Other than the Minnesota left tackle, who are the other guys? Are there other two, three, four other names that you think might be available in the back half of the first, early second that could be a potential target for a team like the Patriots or another team that could use the left tackle in that range of the draft? Josh Connerly out of Oregon is another name that definitely could be there. And lo and behold, Josh Simmons of Ohio State could be there depending on how comfortable you feel about the Patel attendant injury that he suffered in the sixth game against Oregon. And he reminds me of Christian Derasol when he was coming out. I think if he stayed healthy this entire year, I think he would be a bona fide top 10 pick. But because of the Patelitendin injury that he had, that could cause him to slip down the board. But if you're New England, I definitely think that's a chance that you would definitely risk taking just because you have no visible plan.

At left tackle right now, you passed on pretty much everybody in free agency. I thought they could entertain the thought of Cam Robinson. But it seems like they didn't even touch them at all. So, I mean, it's clear that they possibly like their options in the draft. that's the route that they're going to go. All right. So let's say we do that. Let's say we take Abdul Carter at four and then a left tackle either with a slight trade

up or you find one at 38 in the second round. If I'm a Patriots fan, I'm waking up in a cold sweat and having night terrors about who's going to catch the ball in these scenarios. They have two third round picks. They're picking at 69 and 77. Is there a receiver that you feel like might be available in the third round? I'm really making you go deep here. I'm making you do an entire Patriots mock draft live.

but I'm testing you. Is there a receiver in the third round that you think the Patriots might be able to find that you think makes sense for where they are right now? Just pulling up my list here, some guys that I actually do like at the position. Kyle Williams from Washington State is one that I liked even coming out of the Senior Bowl.

I definitely think it could be in that third or fourth round range. And that's why I really think the depth of this year's class is really like that second third or fourth round range. We don't really have, in my opinion, and that bona fide top 10 or top 15 player like we have seen in years past. So he's won. Elic E.O. Maynor out of Stanford is one that could go in the second or third round. And then also if they're looking for a specialty receiver just to take the top off of the defense,

Isaiah Bond out of Texas is definitely another name that I think is really interesting that had some first round buzz coming to the year when he transferred from Alabama to Texas, but was banged up this year and didn't have the year that he was hoping for. So he could be there inside of the top seven. So those are definitely three names, but yeah, you're right. I mean, they have to have somebody to kiss the ball for Drake May just because another position that they really didn't show any interest in anybody in the offseason. So let's play this out a slightly different way because I do want to talk about the tackles a little bit.

This is the spot where we could do some of that. Let's say in theory, Cam Ward, Travis Hunter and Abdul Carter are off the board when the Patriots are picking, and they do end up zeroing in on one of those tackle prospects because of need and value. if you are on the clock at four and you are taking one of those two tackles for the Patriots and that guy has to play left tackle for you is it Will Campbell or Armand Membue and why This Armand Membue for me just because I think he has the athleticism that you love to see at the position And he's battle tested both have been in the SEC of course him and Will Campbell But I just think the the traits the requisite traits to play tackle consistently

I just feel more comfortable with Membo doing that he has the strength that you love to see at the position he's really physical at the point of attack as a run blocker as well. But if there was one caveat to the Mimbu pick is that he's never played left tackle before. So it would be a huge adjustment for him going over from the right side to the left side. So that may be the tiebreaker if they do elect to take Campbell over Mimbu. But for me, I think Mimu is the better prospect overall. And I mean, I think he's a plug and play option at left tackle. Try to think of the last guy who did that. Jed Wills was the right tackle in college, correct? And then went over to play left tackle full time for the Brown.

So that would be an example. There's been a couple other ones recently. Who else was a full-time right tackle and then moved to the left side? Of those guys, like what's typically the hit rate was something like that? None immediately comes to mind. I know Joe Alt did the opposite last year. And he went on to play really, really well. But I can't think of one that like immediately comes to mind that went from right tackle to left tackle.

Jed Wheels was the last one that I immediately can think of of. But outside of that, I can't think of anybody that went early that primarily play right tackle and then went over to the left side. Now, the patrons are going to need to find one somewhere here. So whether that's Membue, whether that's Will Campbell. You can count Tristan Worf's. Yeah, that's, I mean, he's played everywhere at this point. He's able to do every little bit of everything. We're going to take one more quick break here and then we're going to come back with picks five and six.

Let's get to the Jacksonville Jaguar. here. I put it in italics at the top of this. For our purposes here, Hunter and Carter have already been selected. They have already been selected. So we don't have to worry about that with these three options. Here are your three options with the Jacksonville Jaguars on the clock at number five. Option one is draft Mason Graham from Michigan, which I believe you did in your mock draft that you did before free agency started. Option two, draft your edge of choice, dealer's choice, whoever you want, whichever is your favorite edge player left now that. that Abdul Carter is off the board, you can do that.

Option three, some sort of wild card. With both tackles on the board, we can throw the, the tackle's been in there. If you wanted to go get a corner, maybe, Will Johnson for Michigan, because of what the Jep chart looks like for the Jags, that's available to you. So those three options, Mason Graham, Edge, or surprise me, which one of those routes are you going if you were the Jags at 5? I'm sticking and picking and I'm taking Mason Graham. And outside of Abdul Carter and then also Travis Hunter, he's.

He's the other blue chip player for me in this year's draft class. And I mean, he's gotten better every single year when he was at Michigan. I think he's a plug and play interior guy, whether it's one technique or three technique. I think he can play either one. Even though the weight was shocking to a lot of people at 296 pounds at the combine, he got up to 306 at his pro day. And he probably played somewhere from 310 and 315 during his final year if I had to guess. But just the hand strength that he has.

And, you know, when I'm going through these possible picks, that these GMs could make, I really try to match some of the tendencies that they have. And if you think about it, James Gladstone and what he created with the Rams, they always take players that are ready to play right away. And if you go back to last year's draft, Jared Verson, Braden Fisker, two other great examples of players that we all knew that could come in and play right away. And I see that with Mason Graham. And if you just add him to Trayvon Walker, Josh Heinz Allen, Mason Smith, who showed some

promise last season for them the second round pick a year ago, Now adding Mason Graham along that interior to be that linchpin in the middle, I think that quickly becomes building a strength on a strength. And now we've seen what the Rams they like to build from the inside out. And they like to have their defensive line as one of the strongest points of their entire team. So I could see Glassstone really investing into that defensive interior really quickly. That's why I took Graham right here. It's such an interesting contrast because if you look at what the Jags have done,

the Jags are drafted on potential more than those Rams front offices have. I mean, Trayvon Walker is obviously the best example, but its traits, its size, et cetera, and maybe we'll figure out production somewhere down the road. The Rams haven't really done that. So that contrast is interesting when you're thinking about this front office compared to the previous regime in Jacksonville. And even a guy with Mason Graham's sort of profile,

if you think about some of the other players they have, even if they bump Eric Armstead inside, and now he's playing three technique in some of those four down fronts, you still need a nose tackle as part of that overall equation. And so having one more defensive tackle who's a stout player, maybe isn't quite as dynamic of a pass rusher or some of the other guys that you have, that probably makes more sense for the overall composition of the Jags front than it might make for some other teams who are looking for maybe more of a dynamic pass rushing force on the interior. So for the Jags specifically, based on what I understand about Mason Graham, I think it does make a lot of sense. Yeah, it does without question. Like I said, just building a strength on a strength.

and I'm looking at the offensive lines around my division. I'm looking at Houston, whose offensive line is in shambles right now as they've tried to remodel everything. The Colts just lost two of their anchors along the interior and Ryan Kelly and then also Will Fries. So if I continue to build up my defensive line, I think I have a clear advantage of some of the other offensive fronts in my division. If Mason Graham is not on the board for the Jax and you're having to look at some other needs and just some other options for them, as you've thought about mock drafts and just who might be available at five, or maybe they don't like Mason Grammy. There's no way for us to know.

What are some of the other things at top of mind for you about places and directions the Jags might go in the draft? I think Corner is definitely an area where they could look to go, just finding somebody opposite of Tyson Campbell. They've really struggled to find somebody opposite of that one. I know they signed Jordan Lewis here in the offseason, but he projects more as a nickel to me. And then also they have Jerry and Jones, who they selected last year. So I'm really interested to see how the nickel dynamic works out for them.

So that could be one area where I think they could serve to improve, but also guard. Guard is another area where I think they could look to upgrade. They signed Patrick McCarrey in the offseason, but they could look to add some more depth there as well. So either guard or corner is another area. And then also receiver. I think receiver could be a very underrated need. And I know they signed Diami Brown, but he's more of a third guy to me, in my honest opinion. So I don't view any receiver in this class outside of Travis Hunter.

Now, Travis Hunter is there. Obviously, you take them. But outside of him, I wouldn't be comfortable taking any of these guys inside of the top five. So if you trade back into the teens, like anywhere between 10 or 14, now you're talking about potentially Teteroa McMillan, who I think would be a really good fit with Trevor Lawrence. I was just looking at teams that potentially would want to move up to five if the Jags were to move down because then again, guys like Will Johnson, if you wanted a corner,

Ted McMillan, if you wanted a receiver. if you wanted to trade even further back and try to find a guard in the middle of the first round. I'm just curious who would want to come up to five and who it would be four, though. I think that's the bigger question is, is there a prospect in your mind with Carter and Hunter off the board who would be worth trading up for if you're a team like the Panthers, the Saints, the Bears, the Niners, the Cowboys sitting there from 8 to 12? I don't see it, honestly. And that's the most interesting part about this draft, in my opinion, honestly, just because the players that you're going to be. going to select pick 12 through pick 50 are basically going to be the same exact players in my opinion there's really outside of Carter, Graham, and Hunter, there isn't that guy that you're just

itching to trade up for in this year's class in my honest opinion, much different than what we saw in last year's group of where there was just studs after studs, not just the quarterbacks. I mean, guys like Brock Bowers and, you know, Joe All, league neighbors, Marvin Harrison, that you just knew could come in and play right away. This year's class isn't really like that. but if there is a defensive lineman that somebody really likes, whether it's a Jalen Walker or a Mikel Williams or somebody like that, that somebody could be itching to trade up for that could possibly happen,

but I just don't really see that in this year's class. All right, let's round this out with the sixth and final pick of the first edition of this exercise for us. The Las Vegas Raiders are on the clock. Here are your three options for the Raiders. Option one, draft Ashton Genti running back from Boisey, with the sixth overall pick, which would be a very fun swing in year one of the new regime. Option two is draft your edge player of choice.

Again, some of these talented but maybe not perfect edge prospects, all still on the board here after Abdul Carter was gone. That is your second option. Option number three, draft Ted McMillan wide receiver from Arizona. You still need a receiver somewhere in the mix here if you are the Raiders. you have Jacobi Myers obviously, but if you want a bigger outside the numbers option to go along with him and Brock Bowers, it does seem like McMillan might be your choice there. Among those three options, which one are you going with if you are John Spitech and Pete Carroll? So before I make the pick, I think this pick comes down to one thing for me.

And it's how high do you have Ashton Genty graded over the other running backs in this year's class? just because if you have a very similar grade between just this scenario, Ashton Genti and then also Amari and Hampton, then I think you try like Heck to trade back or you take somebody else at this spot where there's a Tech McMillan and then you come back in the second round and take somebody like a Trayvion Henderson or a Quinshot Junkins if you have them in that second round range. But if you have just a astronomically high grade on Gentie and he's head and shoulders above any other running back in this year's class, then you just go ahead and take them just because Pete Carroll's about to be 74 years old, man. He wants to win right now. So we want to get these guys that can come in and that can play right away right now.

So I'm going to go with Ashton Genty right here just because I think that's what Pete is going to want to do. And I mean, you add Genty to Brock Bowers for Gino Smith. Now you have two building blocks along as far as weapons-wise that I think can be really A-level players. We already know Brock Bowers is already a-level player. record imaginable for Ricky tight ends. But Ashen Gentie, man, he's just so special to me. He's that guy that can come in. You can build the running game around him.

But an underrated part and what a lot of people don't know about Genty is that he was a receiver before he was a running back. And he was so good as a running back last year, they just strictly used him in that fashion. But he has untapped potential as a receiver. So you're not just getting a guy that can run the football. You're getting somebody that you can really incorporate your passing game around. as well. And with Gino Smith, we know that he really likes to incorporate those type of players

in that offense. So Genty, you can split them out wide. You can obviously use them in the back foot as a rushing thread as well. So you're not just taking a running back at this spot. You're taking somebody that you can use not only as a running back, but you can incorporate in the passing game as well. So you have Genti at four on your overall big board for this year. So you think that he is that type of prospect. I totally get that. So even if it's not Pete Carroll or SpyTech, If you're the one making the pick here, are you still taking Ashton Gentie because of where you have him ranked? I would not take Gentie right here. I would elect to go a different way.

I would go whether it's a Tech McMillan, a Will Johnson, the corner from Michigan or somebody of that area, just because the running back class is so deep. I would feel perfectly fine. Like I said, getting somebody like a Quinstein Jenkins or a Trayvionn-Henerson. I keep saying those two names just because of the Chip Kelly connection. Sure. And this could be the route that they absolutely go. just because of the familiarity with both of those guys.

So if it were me, I would go a different direction. I would look to go, you know, whether it's a receiver or a corner or even an edge rush or anybody like that. And then I will look to take the running back in the second round. So you have Will Johnson at five on your big board. And if let's say they do pass on a gentee here. I still think corner is like a screaming need for the Raiders right now when you just sit there and look at the depth chart.

So that would be appealing to you if maybe they don't love Genty as more or because they think the running. running back class is so deep that we want to get the corner here. We'll figure out running back later. And then also, if I'm John Spitech, I just saw what Bucky Irving was able to do in Tampa Bay as a fourth round pick. So I originally mocked Genti, number six overall here, but just putting myself in Spitech shoes and just seeing what Bucky Irvin was able to do a year ago as a fourth round pick, that could give him some pause about taking a running back that early as well. all right so let's let's rewind a little bit here then all right so let's do this again you're making the pick here okay and it's it's gentie it's gentie so you're making the pick here it's gentie yeah it's will johnson or it's tett mcmillan which of those three routes are you going

if you are making the pick here and you're the raiders i would take will johnson um i just think even though he's been banged up throughout the pre-draft process i think he's a very very good cornerback prospect. And like you mentioned, we have such a huge hole at corner. I just think he could come in and really change the outlook of the position at that. And then also, whenever I'm comparing like stacking players, so for example, what I mean by that is, would I rather have Ashton Genty and somebody like a Azariah Thomas, who was a cornerback from Florida State who's projected to be a second round pick? Or would I rather have Will Johnson and then a Quinshot in Junkins. I would rather have the Quintin-Junkin stack along with Will Johnson as opposed to the other options.

So I think that's something that they could weigh heavily in the draft room. And then also that's the exercise that I go through on mock drafts as well that I always find really interesting. Just trying to put myself in the GM's shoes of which stack of players in the first two rounds would you rather have. Now I got to decide which of these answers I'm going to use as we do the rest of the first round. I think I might just stick Johnson there because it's more fun to still have gentie on the board as we go through all of these other teams.

So I get to decide how this goes. We're making this up as we go along, so we get decided which is more fun. So you have Johnson at 5. It feels like that was a name, you know, again, as somebody who is not knee-deep in the draft process or even in college football throughout the entire season. You know, that's a name I was hearing even coming into the year as one of the prizes of this draft class.

And it feels like some people have cooled on him a little bit as we've gotten a little bit deeper into the process. He didn't work out at the combine. He's not going to work out at his pro day, even though he is going to have a private workout, apparently, like you mentioned in your rankings, before the draft. Why are you still so high on Johnson where it feels like maybe some other people have backed off a little bit? So I always say every prospect is the greatest prospect ever until they're draft eligible. And whenever they have that draft eligible spotlight on them, that's when everybody starts to poke holes in them. And we see this with every prospect coming into the year that we've praised over the past two years.

and I believe that's what's happening with Will Johnson. And like I said, he hasn't had a good pre-draft process just because we haven't seen him. He had the turf toe injury during the season. He only played, I believe, four or five games during the year. So he's been banged up. We haven't seen him at all since very early on in the season. And quite frankly, the tape wasn't very good early on this year just because he was very banged up during that time. So the last great game we've really seen him have was really back in 2023.

So just with that. then you stack all those things together. A lot of people are really starting to stack the negatives against Will Johnson. But when I go back and I look at the positives of this player that we praised during his freshman and then also his sophomore year, I mean, he was receiving Patrick Sertain the second comparisons coming into the year. So it's like that guy to me didn't just magically disappear. He just doesn't have that momentum that he possibly could have created during the pre-draft

process. And I'm not going to dame him for that stuff just because I think he's still a really good prospect. For some other people, it might be interesting to kind of rewind and do the Jags again with Will Johnson. If you had Will Johnson as your fifth overall player, most people, that might be a conversation for the Jags at 5. But because you have Graham at 3, it makes it a little bit less complicated. But I think there's probably some others out there maybe aren't quite as high on Mason Graham, but they're also probably not quite as high on Will Johnson. So what the Jags do at 5 will be an interesting kind of linchpin moment in this draft just because, like you said, the elite

elite players are probably off the board at that point. And then what the trickle-down effects of that look like, if it is Maksin Graham, if it is the corner, et cetera, it would be very fun to watch. So the Gentie watch and the Will Johnson watch here in the top 10 to 12 will be something we'll keep an eye on as we keep going through this exercise. Jordan Reed, sincerely appreciate the time, sir. Sincerely appreciate you helping us trot out this little exercise here that we're going to do over the next month or so.

Please let people know where they can find you and the work that you were doing here. in the month before we get to the draft. Yeah, so you can find me on X, Twitter, whatever you call it, nowadays, at Jordan underscore Reed. That's J-O-R-D-A-N underscore R-E-I-D. No, I am not the former Washington Commanders tight-in. I get that on Twitter every single week, somehow, some way, even though he is now retired.

You can also find my work on ESPN Plus as well. We're releasing mock drafts, player rankings. We're also releasing BuzzFiles, where we're sharing insider information, things that we're hearing. as well. And then, you know, going back and forth with these pro days, being able to talk to the scouts as well, sharing things that I'm hearing from certain teams as well. So go on ESPN Plus. You can see all of that along with my colleagues, Mel Kuiper Jr., Field Jays, and then also Matt Miller as well.

Awesome. Sincerely appreciate the time. We will do it again very soon. Thanks as always, Robert. All right, guys. That's all we got for today. Thank you so much to Jordan for his time. We'll be back with two more shows this week. Tomorrow we're doing something a little weird. It was a conversation last week with a buddy of mine, Justice Muscatah talking about this idea of whether or not traits or production is more important for edge rushers and what actually is a bigger signal of success in the NFL. We're going to talk about that tomorrow.

If you're draft and edge rushers, how much does production actually matter and how much of this is a traits-based position? That's going to be tomorrow's show with me, Justice, and Derek. And then on Thursday, me, Derek and Dane are digging in to this year's quarterback class. Very excited about that. So please be on the lookout for those shows. for now. That's all we got. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you very soon.