The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Packers-49ers' insane ending, Justin Fields' dud debut, the Raiders & Bills keep winning, Steelers struggles & more with Nate Tice

Episode Date: September 27, 2021

It was an insane weekend of NFL action during week 3 as the Packers and Aaron Rodgers stun the 49ers and Jimmy Garoppolo in the dying seconds, the Chiefs get upset by Justin Herbert and the Chargers, the Raiders and Bills keep on winning, Justin Fields debut is a disaster, the Steelers might be cooked, Justin Tucker makes history and more. Hear all the instant reaction from Robert Mays and Nate Tice on a NEW postgame Athletic Football Show. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays. Joining me tonight. It's my good friend Nate Tyson. How you doing, buddy? I'm doing well. What an adventurous day.

What a lovely day. I had to throw that Mad Max Giff in there because it was just like everything, every game just had something. It really did. Like it was just like something magical happened at every game, it seemed like. I mean, obviously there were some low lights. We'll get to those. many of them, including my day and my life, which should be wonderful.

We had a kick six. We had the longest field goal in the history of the NFL that was made, which is an amazing moment. That's just one of those. You'll remember that. Watching an NFL Sunday, and we'll get to that, but watching an NFL Sunday, I was watching my brother today. I was at his house.

And we were just like, are they really going to try to do this? And when the ball hit the, I'm getting ahead of myself. Anyway, this wonderful day ended with some fireworks on Sunday night football. Kyle Eustech falls into the end zone with 30-ish seconds left. Like, it's a long way to go, but they only need a field goal. And I've seen him do this kind of stuff over and over and over again. The first throw that Rogers completes on that final drive to Devante Adams, when he let that ball go, truly bonkers.

Just, I mean, the trust to understand, all right, I know exactly how much I have to put on this to get it over, Fred Warner. I know exactly the moment which I have to let this thing go. He just drops it gently right over the top. Devante gets it. They despite the ball. One more completion. 50 yard field go, go home.

Packers are two and one. Like it was clockwork. It's amazing. The fact like we have like several of these to refer to now like not only just like overall but just like national games like you know, the Jared Cook one like that was, you know, against the Cowboys like the toe tap one. And it's just like that entire drive was like inevitable.

Like like after juice juice check scored, it was really telling that the Packers defenders all looked up not to go like what the hell just happened, but they all looked up to see how much time they had left. And they were just like, okay, we're good. I don't think they actually thought that.

But I'm sure there's like a little inkling that they all had there. It was like, okay, we still have a chance. I tweeted out the dragon gift for people. I've done this for a decade now. Years. I mean,

it's, it's been, it's been the longest running bit that I have. I told Bill Barnwell once when he was at his height. It was probably during the 2014 season when he won the MVP and when they were just really rolling. And we were doing the ground on an NFL show. I said he's not a quarterback. He's a fire breathing dragon.

And he is. He is. Obviously there have been those down years. There were a couple of them. And this wasn't his greatest game. But I've just seen him do this so many times. And there's just nothing that can surprise me anymore. Somebody responded when I tweeted out the gift and was like,

You're a Bears fan that worships at the altar of Aaron Rogers. And it's like, if you don't, I don't understand you. Yeah. I mean, I remember I was, I've told the story a couple times in the podcast over the last couple months, but I was talking to Nate Hackett, who's their offensive coordinator, and we were having discussion about like broader kind of trends in the league. And he was heavily quoted in the story I wrote about the Fangio Staley defense and what offense were doing against it.

And I said something about Aaron being the, Staley told me that he was the best quick game thrower in NFL history. And Nate Hackett stopped me and he goes, he's the best quarterback in NFL history. And people, it's not just me that worship at the altar of this guy. It's people who have been in the league for a very, very long time see him as something special and something different. And these are the moments where he reminds you that that's the case. And these are just the ones we see because sometimes the plays that happen in practice that you never. Like, I remember Scott Tolzee sending me videos from practice.

Like, I'm sorry, Scott that I've ever read you out right now. But I remember you sending me that one that there was like a. to the left or he threw it all the way back across the field. It was like a grainy practice video. Sorry, Scott. And I saw a legend from high school legend Scott Tolzee. Yeah. It was like a 55.

He was like behind his, he was past behind midfield through it all the way across back corner like one of the craziest throws I've ever seen in my life. And it was from practice. Like that's like the rainy moss stories. Like I've seen him like like high pointed ball and ended up on a guy's shoulders like stuff like that. Like you know, like just those type of stories is almost sounds like Paul Bundian tales that these guys have, but that's, that's, that's, that's the level that Rogers is at right now.

It's like just, there's just countless of these. And even some of these throws that he makes are almost becoming like repeatable. Like he almost like, you know, just the benders over the linebackers and just, these throws are not just the one off. So you go, wow, that was one of the greatest throws I've seen. It's like he's doing it now like once a season, like once every three weeks, four weeks. And it's just ridiculous. Where are you at on the Packers and the Niners after tonight? I mean, I don't think that there's anything super illuminating. I think that the Niners are going to be a feisty team. I think their offense is still kind of weird. I mean, Jimmy has made some, what Jimmy does within that offense, I think, you understand why they want him to be the

quarterback still, right? Like, he can deliver the ball over the middle of the field. He's still got a pretty quick trigger. The way that they operate, just that yak world, I mean, that big kiddle completion is a perfect example, right? He's going to be able to do some of that kind of stuff, but I still just, I don't know. I still feel like what they want to be on offense and their ceiling. all of those things are still questions to me even after watching that game and them almost winning that game. You know how like last year we saw what the ceiling was of a Rams offense when they had to rely on golf where you're like, okay, this is it. This is this is this is how much we can get out of him. That's kind of how it feels with Jimmy, especially last week watching the Eagles game back, which I watched every play as it was going.

But then watching it back on film was it was it was just everything's just hard with him. And this is this is always the story with it is that they can get the guys open and he's, He's going to deliver it. And like, if it's on time and everything's good, he's going to stand, deliver those throws. But it's like, it's very telling. He only had two throws past 20 yards today. And one of them was the pick that after Alexander just made the great play on.

And like, it's telling that they never really went back to the deep ball. It's like, all right, we took that away. You're done. All right. We took that toy away from you, Jimmy. I'm sorry. And people are making an argument that be their offense has been super efficient over the first couple weeks, even while doing that.

It's like, that shouldn't be the argument. Just because they're efficient, it doesn't mean. that he's creating or helping build that efficiency. The Rams were efficient, to your point, for years with Jared Goff as the quarterback. Just because you can do it doesn't mean you should be trying to make it more difficult

on yourself. There's a chance that Lance is not ready, but there's also a reason that they wanted to make that move in the first place. And I think that even if this timeline is okay, they're one 50-yard field goal and two miracle throws away from being 3-0, you still understand that there is a waste

for this offense to go. There is that final tier at final step. And we're seeing what it looks like before that step is taken. Which I guess is exciting if you're a foreign irish fan. Yeah. That's pretty. It's like, oh, this is pretty good. It's not like it's doldrums.

And you're just like, wow, I can't picture this off. We're going to talk about the Steelers offense going, like, well, I don't know what the path is. We're maxed out. It's like, well, this is not bad. And we still have a lot more room to grow. Like if number five is actually what we think he is. And they're hanging around with no corners against the Packers.

Like, I think this team. is definitely going to be there and be a team that's going to be fighting for a playoff spot in the other scene. Lenore is the rookie corner number 38. He is a solid player, man. Which is a very good thing because they needed to find one of those guys in the draft. And he has been good over the first couple weeks. A fifth round corner rookie is playing like he's playing.

He's very he's very he's sharp and he's got good size. Long speed. But I mean, he's useful already. And that's a fifth round corner. That's, I mean, good on them. Well, I mean, they have him. And then K.1 Williams gets stinged up. Josh Norman gets stinged up.

It's like spinal tap drummers at this point. It's absolutely ridiculous. So you mentioned the Rams and you mentioned the Rams and how Stafford has taken them to a final place. The first 15 tonight we were going to focus on, I almost said St. Louis Rams. We were going to focus on the Los Angeles Rams and what they did today against the bucks because, in my opinion, that is the most impressive performance that any team put on today. And this was everything we hoped they would be. You know, I looked at some of the numbers.

We had a long conversation coming into the season about how we talked about on Friday, the dropback area of their play sheet that could now exist, you know, the way that they could play. A non-play action throw out of the shotgun today. So non-play action throws out of the shotgun today. Stafford was 24 of 35 for 309 yards and four touchdowns. He had averaged 9.69 air yards per attempt. This was not just a supercharged version of the Rams offense that we've seen over the last three or four years under Sean McVeigh. This was a, we're going to spread it out, back it up, and sling it around. And they managed to do that in an extremely high level against a pretty good team that was banged up in the secondary.

But I still think that the performance they put on today was kind of a declaration that this is a different sort of team that everyone else in the league is going to have to deal with over the course of this season. Absolutely. It's that was the joke I made. And actually there's going to be another guy we talked about later where this is kind of the same thing that's happening in their offense is now that this whole part of this playbook has opened up. It's just like it's just another rock paper scissors that you add on. Like you know, now you have a fourth option to go to that's like, oh shoot. Now we have to defend against that. Uh, you really get into three things you have to defend is hard enough now. And when I say that it's run game play action boot and then now it's drop back. That's four. And then you got screen game. That's top tier screen.

I mean, that was really cool stuff they were doing with the screen stuff, like just isolating the tight end on the back side. They were just taking it. They dressed it up two different ways on the same drive, right? So cool. So cool. And they did the same way. They went four by one on both times. But they did it like you said, two different ways get into that.

And just taking advantage of that. And also like a lot of times they were going like trips and put like Higbee all the way out as the lone receiver either as the ISO'd like Kelsey like a one by three or just like the on the trip side being like the number one receiver. And they're just getting man zone tells. That's all it was. It was just, and not without emotion or anything. And I want to say just a lot of these plays, they just gave, you know, Stafford a kill, a man's own kill or a pressure, pressure, pressure, anything else kill or something like that. But instead of going like run past, like a lot of offenses do, they went pass pass. And they were just like, all right, we're going to go with our man beater.

If you're not man, all right, we'll go with our zone beater. Oh, you're on pressure. Okay, we're going to run a screen like to Higby on the outside. It's they were just a page ahead the entire day. Like it was a clinic. Like it really was on offense. They only had one penalty. They only gave up one sack.

The line has been playing really well. That's another thing that they've really allowed them to function because when they're doing some of this longer developing stuff, even like the Deshaun double move for the touchdown. Some of the stuff where Cooper Cup is like putting sauce on routes that don't even exist. You need to hold up to do that. There's a reason that people aren't running corner post corners. It's because you can't. But when you're protecting well, which they have been, you are able to kind of allow the offense to unfold in this way. I think the two screens to Higby on the same drive.

I think it was in the first, it was in the second quarter, I want to say. So they came out and like you said, he was the trips to the right, he was this furthest outside receiver to the right. And they ran a screen to him on third down with cup and woods blocking to that side. On the touchdown, it was third down again. He was the single receiver on the right side. they ran another screen, just a traditional screen with the lineman blocking. The fact that they're just as comfortable with the receivers doing the blocking in that situation as they are with the offensive linemen, exactly to your point about penalties and protection and details, there's a lot of pride on this team. They are of a lot of pride in doing things well.

And I watched a team today in Chicago that played the Browns, it's the exact opposite. And when you have a team like that where every single thing is we want to block well, we want to align well, we want the details. to be right. And then you combine it with actual players and now a quarterback that can sling it however he wants to. That's what you see. This is the final product that you saw today. The one very telling about taking pride. And we talk about this. This is kind of the sign that you have a real unit or not only just team, but like real offense or defense or even special teams is a van Jefferson is when a role player steps up or a role player does something that's like, oh, shoot. In Van Jefferson, I'm not saying like, oh, okay, he's extraordinary. But he had this

played near the end of the game. The Bucks brought a quarter, quarter blitz against a weak side zone that the Stafford, Stepard saw at the last second. And he adjusted, he ran a side adjustment. They got the conversion, got the first down. They kept milking the clock. The fact that Van Jefferson, like,

rubber woods and Cooper Cup, I know are extraordinarily smart receivers. Sean Jackson is as well. Van Jefferson, like really their number four guy is doing that type of thing. Adjusting to the side, to a corner blitz is really cool stuff. And that's, like you said, taking pride.

But even like how they dress these things up like it's just so cool to see McVeigh in this new world. Like we've talked about a million times about four by one concepts. And like McVe's twist on it is going four by one, but then going four by one empty. But with the tight end alone, having all the other four guys, the three receivers on their side. But rather than just going like, you know, we've talked about a million times is Burrow getting pressure and he has to get the ball out quick. He can't get vertical with it. They're doing a little better job, but getting, again, vertical and all that. That's the downside of being an empty.

What does McVe do? He has chip help. The tight end and the runnerback are chipping on those. And like you were saying, the DeShon Jackson deep ball, they had one against the Bears where they hit Deshaun Jackson on over the same, the same formation. They came to it like at least three times in this game.

They hit cup on a sail route. So it's like a triple whammy. Like you're getting the defense to make an empty check, which is usually a little softer defense or a little more telling defense. You create an overload four by one formation and you get the tight end tells. and you get the tight end loaned receiver tail and then also you get the chip help and it's just like these ah it's just like these little tweaks that just stack on top of each other just opens up all this stuff for them it's just it's really really cool to watch this offense play it really is and

we haven't talked about the defense but they're stars but it's just this team was firing today it was really and oh the use of tempo that's the other thing I want to talk about sorry before I just have to it was so cool watching go tempo and then like keeping sue and vea off the field like Anytime Sue were Veda got sub sub subbed out for the one or two snaps, they would go temple, tempo, tempo, tempo. They were rolling, trying to keep them off the field. And you could tell the bucks were like, oh, shoot, okay, we see what you're doing. And I saw Vaya on a third down sprinting in. Like, I've never seen a big man move faster because he knew he had to sub in after second down.

It was awesome. But it was just one of those things where the ranch had a great game plan. They executed it perfect. We talk about this being a little bit of a coming out party from Matthew Stafford over the last few games. I also feel like it's been somewhat of a coming out party for Cooper Cup. And, you know, Cooper Cup has been in our lives forever, even in this offense. But I think that as it's on, as it is expanded and as we've seen more elements of the offense, we've seen more elements of him as a receiver.

And he did every, a little bit of everything today. And just every single thing he can do for this team, you know, it's short area stuff where he's running that little, I guess like a reverse whip stop is what it was. I don't even know how to describe his touchdown down there. But like, but he's also just, you know, slot fades from this like with little picks. and that's his touchdown was the same kind of deal. They're scheming stuff up for him. And I just think that we're seeing every single thing he does well

and how it's unlocking certain aspects of this offense. His body control is so incredible. When you said he was 6-2 today, I was shocked. No one realizes that with him. I was shocked. He's an inch taller than DeAndre Hopkins. Yep. That makes no sense.

I just heard about a million brains. How many people listen to this bust right there? It's just like, it's, that's, isn't, that's the thing, too, is that it makes his route running more impressive. Totally. And that is also why they're able to get away with all this. So if we've talked about with him and Woods, be able to block. They use him as defact so tight ends. That helps.

He's got, he's so strong. He also is more of a catch rate as than you think he does. He's made a lot of catches away from his frame that now suddenly make more sense because you think about that. Keenan Allen's the same way. Keenan is six three. And no one thinks about that. So who else would be unlike the year he's taller than you think. all-stars.

Because those two guys are like starters on the on that. He's taller than you think all-stars. It's the reverse DeAndre Hopkins. I can do the he's shorter than you think all-stars. Matthew Stafford is the quarterback. Yeah. Mahomes kind of is too. Matthew Stafford is the starter.

Matthew Stafford is like 6-1. He is not that tall. And then 6-1-6-2, Hopkins is definitely one of the receivers. He's shorter or taller than you think is tougher though. But those two guys are definitely on that team. Because I did not know. I've covered the NFL since Cooper Cup came into the league. I did not know Cooper Cup was 6-2 until today.

Oh, you know who's one? Is Ryan Matthews, the runnerback for that dude for the Eagles and the Chargers. That dude I did not realize was like all of like 6-1, 6-2. Matt Forte, same deal. Yes. Oh, that's another good one. Yeah, Matt Forte was another one. Yeah, like you don't realize.

You think he's like 5-11, six foot, but just built. And it's like, oh, no, he's like all of 6-2 are running back. Speaking of Keenan Allen and tall guys, let's get to the Chargers win over the Chiefs today. I mean, weird game, a lot of different stuff going on. Obviously, the Chargers had a leg up just because the turnovers by Kansas City early in that game, three tournaments in their first three drives. Weird pass interference penalty at the end that I still don't really understand that helped the Chargers win that game. But Chargers still deserve a lot of credit, going for the throat multiple times on Fort Down in ways that they should have.

I mean, Herbert's just making like on the nails. throws when the game is on the line. I mean, those two throws to Michael Williams, where he's just manned up down to that side. I mean, they are starting to figure out how to use the pieces within this offense. And they did a good job against Mahomes today. I mean, I think it's one of those games where if the chiefs have the chalk at the end, they probably win again, but that's always how it is. So you need a couple turnovers here, a couple turnovers there, make sure that you use all four downs and don't let them have the ball at the end. And that's exactly what happened. and now the Chargers are two and one and ahead of the Chiefs in the Division.

They, as much as, okay, they went, or the Chiefs went minus four, the Chargers went plus four, that speaks to Chargers not turning the ball over themselves, like you just said. And now you kind of understand, after what just happened with Rogers and the 49ers, you kind of understand why Staley was staying aggressive down there and going, we're not letting him get the ball back because you could see when these top tier guys, what they can just do to you if you just leave too much time. But I think these, these Herbert Mahomes games,

this is the new normal now. These are the two Titans. Like this is Batman Superman shit. Like this is just what it's, this is, I mean, seriously, this is what it is what it is now.

Like I'm telling you, next decade plus we get two games of this every single year. It's going to be awesome. Um, but Herbert was ridiculous. I mean, he, he is.

He's, the touchdown throw he had to Keenan Allen to the first, their first score to the jump throw. A six foot six guy doing a jump throw touchdown. Jump ball over a guy, a guy trying to bat the ball down. He throws it underneath. Like he double clutched it in midair. And also that play was stick, of course.

And, uh, but he went outside in on it. So he read it out. And then so that this is like just Herbert in a nutshell is like he read it out perfect. And then on top of that made an athletic as hell play like getting around a guy jumping. But it was just the chargers like designs had some awesome stuff. And they were just abusing the chiefs linebackers just like right. Just abused them. I mean, they had him going every situation.

every which way. Like they had the orbit motion. Oh, Echler's touchdown. They ran the orbit motion with Keenan Allen, getting them around the formation. They caught the chiefs in the blitz. And so the chiefs linebacker started pushing with the motion,

but he didn't realize that he had Echler. Came out the back door. Yeah. Ecclors is just sitting there like, okay, thank you. But that's the thing is when you put those, that's why the motions, that's why it's so important if you just do it with your stuff,

because that was just a choice route is you're making the defense now do math right at the, right at the snap of the ball. That linebacker had to go. who's number three oh shoot like he had to realize that his guy was not all the way to that all the way to the opposite side of the field it was like it was a runnerback right over here but that's what that does it changes the number count right to snap the ball but well i pray that they stop they start like setting for a beat before they snap the ball with all those motions the amount of illegal shift

penalties that this team gets is insane like that's the only that's a frustrating part is that you can tell it's still fairly new you can tell that they still have some kinks that they're working out but the way that all the pieces are fitting together with the offense you can see the vision for it, right? Like Mike Williams is that ISO ball. You are a true, true, true X receiver. We're going to use you in those moments. There was his sluggo that he had against Mike Hughes.

I mean, he's beautiful. Just play ISO ball one-on-one with him, and he's going to win a lot because Herbert trusts him. And the amount of trust and the way those guys are playing that two-man game is awesome. And then on third down, they're just destroying people with Keenan Allen. I mean, just on man-beating routes little angles. Let me just little pick. I mean, that's the formula.

It's like, all right, on third down, third and short, we have this guy who's going to destroy you in short areas. Anything else, if we want to chunk play, we have this guy. And it's very cool the way it's fitting together. The one play I want to talk about, though, it's just like, Stafford's the same way. You talk about that sale route to cup. Every team runs sale. You know, it's in every playbook.

But his ability to just like, the way that you can spread it out and how just much, it becomes devastating instantly because of his arm. and the way that he can place that throw outside the numbers. I think it was in the fourth quarter. It was the first and ten. It was like six and a half minutes left. The Chargers ran that same play action slide concept

that every single team in the NFL runs with a tight end cuts, slices across, and he's coming into the flat. The Bears ran it to disastrous results today. Everyone runs it. Everyone runs it. Everyone runs it. So Herbert, instead of even looking at the slice

coming into the flat, wall moving to his left rips a 25-yard throw to Mike Williams down the scene without stopping. So that's the difference. You can run the same plays everyone else runs.

But instead of having to worry about the edge player coming off and just dumping it over him to the tight end coming into the flat, he just keeps his eyes a little bit further down field and rips a 25-yard throw that's a chunk game that sets up the game-winning drive. I know.

That's the difference. No one watching this game should try and copy any of it. like as far as quarterback play. It's just like, that's the thing. It's just a whole bunch of triples and home runs. Like there's no singles and doubles.

Like it's just, it's just guys just like, like you just said like most times you call that play. Hey, we hit the flat. We get a nice eight yard game way to go. But it's like no, it's hit a 24 yard gain.

Like, let's just make it easier on ourselves to get two first downs and instead maybe a first down. It's like that's what you're generating. He's generating two first downs. Like I don't know if that's like an expected stat like you could do on these. But it's like, hey, they expected on this is half of first down.

He's generating two and a half. And then that's what, that's what Mahomes and Herbert and really the top, top guys do is that they just go big game hunting over and over. Rogers, I mean, obviously, but that's what they do is they just take these extra runs, extra yards, extra, they create these points that weren't there or maybe would have been harder to get there. And they just do it over and over and over. The one he almost had to guide. Oh. It was a 50. If you guys didn't see it, I tweeted out.

just the video of it. He was drifting to his left and just let it rip from about 55 yards away on a line and almost hit Jalen Guyton for a touchdown. He almost knocked him over. The ball had so much juice on it by the time it got to the end zone. It's just insane. He's making like two of those throws a game. So a really nice win for them. A disgusting sack for Joey Bosa against Trace Smith, by the way. That was like one of my favorite plays of the entire day. He sets up this in and out that just how smooth he is with that ability to set it up while consistently moving toward the quarterback, it's just so hard to deal with. As a guard, it's not even fair. So I'm glad to see that they're starting to figure out, all right, these are how we're going,

this is how we're going to use all of our pieces. You know, when you come in as a new team, even if you're exciting from the start, the way that the Rams have been, the way the Chargers have been to a degree, it takes a while. It takes a while to figure out and settle into yourself, be like, all right, this is actually what we're good at. This is actually how to use these guys. This is actually what their skill sets align with in terms of our vision. And I think that watching that process for some of these teams, Chargers included, they're going to clean that stuff up. Like, those illegal shifts and the shooting themselves in the foot,

I do think that stuff is going to get iron out. And when you're winning games en route to that, that's always a good thing. Gentlemen, you have my curiosity. Now you have my attention. All right. Let's get to, you have my attention. We do this segment every single week. During a day of games, there's a ton going on.

My brother today was like, how do you do this every week? because I got five games going on plus the red zone and he just doesn't. It's information overload. The stimulus is just too much. And it's because when you're watching, things grab you. And that's what we try to do with this segment every week. What grabbed you when you were watching? Because sometimes stuff gets lost in the noise.

What jumped out? And I think the first thing for me today was the way that the Buffalo Bill's offense played. It really, I mean, this is what we thought. It was every time the first week we talked about how it was a Steelers. was more having a better game plan than anything that the Phillis offense maybe didn't do. I guess I just didn't do, but it was right. No concerns with Josh Allen. I think that was maybe the best way to put it.

Week two, same thing. Funky game. But Dolphins had a great game plan. Beat him and man had some great robber stuff. And then Josh Allen was kind of a, you know, like he, it was making it tough on him. Well, not today. Today was not tough on Josh. He was.

He was, he was, I shouldn't say vintage, but it was like, yeah, but that's what it kind of was. It was the type of stuff that were you. to sing from him. When he hit that first missile shot to Sanders in the back of the end zone while rolling to his right, that is vintage because that's exact type of play. I mean, how many times they do it against the Niners last year? Like, we've seen him do that so many times.

And when he hits that, it's like, oh, boy. Yeah. Here we go. So, well, I was going to say, is, like, remember we were laughing about Washington on Friday show? We were talking about, like, their lack of contain. Like, just like all the bad stuff right there. And it was just like, oh, okay, well, I think the bills really wanted to take advantage of that today with Josh Stone breaking contain on passes.

He did such a good. I want to get into just how he dealt with pressure today because it was very cool to watch. But just looking at some of the numbers overall, he completed 74.4% of his passes today with an average depth of target of 9.6 yards. Yeah, that's ridiculous. His, it was 9.2% completion of percentage over expectation. You should not complete three quarters of your passes when your pass are traveling 10 yards in the air on average. but that's what he was doing today. I mean, just putting the ball on guys.

I mean, that downfield throw to Emmanuel Sanders, disgusting. He almost had digs for that one straight up the seam. I mean, he was very, very on point with his ball placement today. A couple of things that I really, really noticed, though, in terms of just his overall play, he did such an incredible job playing in muddy pockets today. So his ability to play with traffic around his feet,

both getting throws off with people in his face, and just sidestepping guys. I mean, Duran Payne won against Cody. I think Cody Ford was playing right guard for them today. He won, I think, instantly a couple different times. And just very smoothly, step up, step up, step out, keep my eyes down field, make something happen. And how late he can get throws off on crossers, things like that, where he can really let stuff develop because of his arm. It just, today was a combination of everything.

It was all of those things that make him such a special quarterback in terms of his gifts all packaged into one. You saw the entire thing today on display. It almost turns into like a delayed sprint out. Like how many times you go like up and out? Like, you know, like that. And that's a classic thing. And we'll talk about it with your favorite team's new quarterback is that a lot of quarterbacks have to learn is stepping up into the pressure and then out. And it's hard to learn that.

It really is. I made the joke about leaning into it. This is leaning into the punch, though. This is like, I don't want to do this, but you have to. And Josh Allen was like a, I mean, today was just clinic tape about it. Like Chase Young was just going wide. They had these wide rushes. And so Allen was just like, okay, I'll just step up and then loop back out.

And like he did it over and over and over and over. But they had a great game plan. I thought this was, Davo did a great job. They were abusing the linebackers, which we had talked about might be something that might happen to the Washington defense. They were running a mash, mesh return. And he was just doing a great job of just not just doing the street ball plays out of the pocket, but staying in the pocket, just like late, like you were saying, just finding the crosser late.

It's a settler late and keeping his eyes downfield. It was very, very cool. And it was cool to see the Bill's offense kind of, okay, they ran the ball a little bit more. They don't have to lean on that, but it's just like, just have it in the toolbox just to make everyone's lives easier. But they did some, they did a cool thing. they did a tackle pull RPO. Like they pulled the tackle and they were in a glance behind it. And I was like, okay.

Oh, nice. So, okay, so, okay, they got a little new sprinkle in there. And I want to see, I can't wait to watch the game pass on it. It's been out right now. But just watch that and just see if they did that more, if they did any of those types of things more, whereas these kind of next steps, new wrinkles in their offense. I liked a lot of stuff they're doing in the red zone. They would have, they would line up one of the receivers in the backfield and the

running back in the slot. And then they would just flip. They would just flip. They'd be like, all right, this is the information we're getting. Now we just flip it. And now we just play. Now we know what you're in. It's just a very simple way to do that.

And then the Dawson Knox touchdown, they lined up in a three by one set with Dawson Knox as the single receiver on the right side. Cole Hoken was on him. Josh was like, well, you're manned coverage, I guess. So I'm just going to fire a missile back shoulder to my tight end one-on-one against the linebacker. And it's it, right? When you have these teams where coaches are putting them in good spots, making the game easier for them, and the players are already better than the guys they're going against, these are the type of performances that you end up with.

Exactly. I'm glad you said that because that was actually another one. I said abusing the liebackers. I was like they put Dossan Knox out there like he was Travis Kelsey. Yeah. That's what they did. They just like, I said them up. I know he didn't even hesitate.

He hit the back foot of his drop and just missile that thing. There were several of those today. And that was the cool part is that when they're playing on time and you can sprinkle in. all of the stuff out of structure that makes him such a pain in the ass to deal with. It's really cool to watch. I mean, this is one of those games where it's just special. And I don't know, I'm kind of worried about what the Washington defense looks like.

I'll be honest with you. I think that their front played okay today. I think that they actually were more disrupted than the final box score would probably indicate just because Alan was so good at playing with traffic around him like we talked about. But on the back end, they just could not hold up in this game. I mean, St. Juist, obviously, as a rookie, I mean, he's going to get baptized by Stefan Diggs. It makes sense.

But these are guys that, I mean, William Jackson got a lot of money this offseason. We were excited about, you know, Cam Curl. Bobby McCain is somebody that, I don't even know if he played today. But just the overall structure of the secondary. These are the guys that we thought this defense was going to be really good. And it has not been really good. So I think that that's something definitely to keep an eye on. It really is.

Another. I'm sorry, but it was like that was what we talked about on Friday show was that it's they really only run three coverages. And when you run only three coverages, like the Seahawks defense did for years and years and years, Washington does quarters, three, and pressure, the offense knows where you're going to be in.

Okay, you've got to out-execute them. So if you're not winning up front, you're not creating turnovers, it's like it's really hard to live that way, unless you're, you know, you're really starting to make the quarterbacks think and double clutch.

And when you're not doing that, it looks kind of how today went. Let's get to another quarterback performance that jumped out to me. Kirk Cousins was awesome today. Awesome. And we talk about, mentioned the stats that Stafford had. What's the thing with Kirk Cousins, right? Like, he's a play action machine.

Like, that's why a lot of those efficiency numbers have been as good as they have been over the last few years. Because within that structure of that offense, he looks pretty good. Today, on non-play action throws, he finished 24 of 29 for 268 yards and two touchdowns. He looked like that. That's how it looked, man. Like, when we were talking about the Rams and we said, hey, they added that whole section of drop-out. that's what like the Vikings did with Kirk Cousins. That's who I wanted to talk about.

They, he's not, they haven't operated like this in the past few years. Like this is not, this is a whole new animal. Like 11 personnel drop back on first and 10. Like they would not live that way before. Well,

I think that they were doing a lot of, and I'll have to go back and watch with like a little bit more detail. It seemed like they were doing a lot of three by one stuff in order to give him information and like give him choices before the snap. Because coming into the season, talking to people there, they wanted to just give. him tons and tons of clarity because when you can point Kurt Cousins in the right direction,

he's one of the best pure throwers of the football in the world. Like, he's incredibly accurate. He doesn't have like a monster arm, but he's a really, really, really good pure passer when you are clearing up the picture for him and just pointing him where he's supposed to be going. And they were doing a lot of that just via formation today and just eating up the Seahawks to that single receiver side, who it was. The one on the touchdown. They hit Jefferson on the whip on the touchdown. They hit Jefferson on the backside of a couple different things.

And I just think that that's what they're trying to do. It's like, all right, by formation, here's what we're giving you. This is, you know where you want to go with the ball. Essentially before the ball is even snapped, go that way. And he looks pretty damn good when you can just not muddy it for him. Just like, all right, this is where you're going with it. Let's lean into you being a pretty damn good quarterback when you're not doing a lot of thinking. And this isn't maybe the Seahawks defense, but especially with more coverages being more balanced or too high, just by definition, that's balanced.

Being three by one is unbalanced, you know, but your offensive structure. So it's just, it's just that's when you're saying that was given those tells, it's just that natural tell. Like it's making defenses shift and have to adjust their rules to just by being in a different formation, you know, for them. What's really cool today is he had 30 completions day, I think, and they all went to his starting 11 personnel lineup. They all went to five guys. 30 completions to five guys. That's pretty awesome. Yeah.

Nine to Justin, Justin, seven to Tyler Conklin, six to Madison, six to theelin and two to Osborne. His 11 personnel lineup is starting five. He just, that's all,

every target, what that's all they went to, which I just think is awesome. 38 targets to five guys. But that's how they operated. They just, nothing crazy. Like they were running slant flats on third down.

Yeah. It was mowing them down. Like the C-H can not stop it. This is, what you have, throw the ball to the guy who's going to be open. It's just like, just operating quickly on time, and it's, he's pretty good when he can do that. And that's a very simple concept. You know, you know how you knew, how confident he is when you're saying operate on time.

Kirk Cousin is one of the best throwers, the double post to Thielen. He had Jefferson wide open on the crosser. He didn't care. He hit the back foot, ripped that in there. And that thing, that's exact throw that I have in mind when I say that, by the way. Because that thing is a missile shot. Like that was, that is a beautiful ball. And that is in general, like little.

tiny subtle stuff today. The first screen to Madison, just that the loft he puts on that ball to kind of give him a little bit of space to run. The placement on the Conklin touchdown. Just little tiny things. He just played quarterback really well today. And then the Osborne play to seal

the game on that blitz on third and five where he's throwing the ball off his back foot. That is just excellent. Like that's just a quarterback making a play in a huge moment. And that's what he did today. I mean, he's had stretches, man, where he gets hot and he looks really, really good. And today is one of those games. I mean, it's just, when he's really feeling it,

it's cool to watch. It's much more impressive than you would typically ascribe a quarterback like Kirk Cousins. Exactly. Because we talk about that tier of guys being like the same, but it's, but that throw to Osborne is exactly it. That is the bad Kirk we've seen in the past. We've seen bad moments when he got put in like that. He trips over his feet. The ball gets sailed and tipped and gets picked, he drifted back away from the pressure and just threw that with touch, but not too much touch where someone can drive on it from the opposite side, just enough to get it over it. That was a beautiful throw. I'm glad you brought that one up because that just speaks to what he's doing right now. Just even the situations where it's not a clean pocket, he's still

creating a throw, which is usually one of the negatives for Kirk Cousins. So that's pretty cool to see. When Kirk Cousins is hitting his back foot and letting the ball loose, he can be really cool to watch. And that's exactly the mode that he was in today. Why don't you explain this to me like I am an eight-year-old? All right. Every week we have somebody, whether it was a coach, a team, anyone. Explain something to us. Explain a performance.

Explain what just happened because we need a little bit of context because it was so bad. And unfortunately today, that is the Chicago Bears offense. I'm sure people have seen some of the numbers. Justin Fields finished six of 20 for 68 yards. He took nine sacks for 60. seven yards. For those of you counting at home, that means he took three more sacks than he had completions, and they finished with one net yard passing.

It's one. Ridiculous. I don't even know where to start because it was a failure on every single level. There isn't one person who is at fault here. He didn't play well. He was put in terrible positions by his coaching staff, by the players around him. they played against a front that knew what was up. They took advantage of that today.

The entire Brown's defense was locked into the exact mode they needed to be in. I can't remember watching a game that was this futile from an NFL offense. And I can't remember how long. And for it to be Justin Fields' first start with all the anticipation that came with it, it was pretty brutal, man. I don't know where you want to dive into this, but it was not a good day. It was not.

When they started with the field goal in the first drive, I was like, okay, all right. Nothing awful there. Even that they should have gone for it. Yeah. Oh, I know, right? Oh, my God. You got to know what the situation is, man. You're the worst team.

You are not as good as the team you're playing. It's fourth and two at their 28-yard line. Go for it. And also one of those things where it's like, I know you're not supposed to know what the gambling lines are, but no, no, you're a heavy dog, Chicago. Bears. Like, no, no, God, know your situation. Do you think, I think I'm sure Staley knew what his situation was today.

But you're playing against a rookie court, you're playing a rookie quarterback against a team that has been rolling on offense, rolling. It just, it's inexcusable. Anyway, that that's like the 10th most offensive thing they did today. And I can, shit, I can go sack by sack. Because I do have notes on these sack, but it's even the fact. If you were trying to tear it. Yeah.

You were trying to say, all right, if I'm stacking up, who is most responsible next, next, next next, how would you build that tier? That hierarchy of blame when it comes to what happened for the Chicago Bears today. As things start getting unravel, it's absolutely on a coaching staff for kind of panicking with their calls because they started stop chip helping on the left side. Made no sense. With Jason Peters. I love Jason Peters, but you know, we've got to know what Jason Peters is at this day and age against Miles Garrett. You can't be running SCAT protection, five-man protection. Sorry, Scott's a different term. That's what it is. But, Five-Man protection.

You can't be doing that shit over and over because you're with the old line that you have. The theory that I think Nagy had on in this game was, oh, we're going to go five-maner protection because we're going to get the ball out and the ball's going to get out quick so that D-line can't beat us. What have we talked about a million times what empty and five-man protection does? You do have to get the ball out quick. But if the defense knows that and they can just- They're sitting on shit. They were running routes for people in the second half.

They were running routes for people. Consistently. It was brutal. and it never adjusted. And it seems almost counterintuitive with this, but it's almost you have to lean into the punch. And I always say that line, but that's what it is because you have to trust yourself.

And it's like, yeah, our line sucks. We can't hold up for deep passing attack. No, they can't. But guess what helps that out? Seven man protections, play action, move in the pocket, pull up sprint outs. That just bullshit offense stuff that just eases everybody. Change the launch point for your quarterback.

They ran zone re today, a half dozen times at least. Nagy never adjusted that there's this thing called scrape exchange where the end can crash down the line so the quarterback keeps it and the linebacker just loops around. Or the corner. Or the corner. College defenses have done it for like a decade plus now to stop zone read. And it's NFL defenses have done it ever since, you know, Colin Kaepernick torched the Packers defense. And it was like, oh, shit, how do we stop this?

It's stuff that they have. Browns knew that. They did it a couple times. So, of course, it looked good to fields. He's like, oh, shit, ends crashing. We're good. Gets there. And there's a linebacker stand there.

he's trying to make a play. It's a two-yard gain. Those types of things, it's, they ran stretch, the first two sacks were stretch play action. I've never been in an offense actually had this. I'm not saying like it's good or bad, but I know the weakness of it is a blitz from the weak side. They got blitzed from the weak side on it because that's the weakness of it. The Browns knew they were going to do that. So they blitzed the weak side with Will linebacker, free runner. I think that was sack number two. sack number three, Trent Williams stumbles. Back number two, though, I thought that was the RPO where he had Mooney. That was on Fields.

I'm missing one sec that what I was trying to go through these. Okay, cool, because my counts off. But they had the, okay, so what was the one that clowny knives inside? Like, clowny knives inside. That's the stretch PA. And then it was, I mean, there's so many that we. How do you account for that? Do you, because of Fetty multiple times today, set as if it seemed like he was getting help

inside or thought he was going to and didn't. And it became a problem on multiple. occasions. And that's one of those things where I'm not trying to ascribe blame, but when we talk about an offense that isn't getting details right, that's what it looks like. Somebody's fucking up there. I don't know who it is, but somebody is. And even if it fucks up once, like that happened, Clownie nice inside. That's what Clownie does. He clownie goes rogue. He does the Betterby plays all the time. He cuts inside. He does it against a run all the time. And you got to know that. So the Feddy on the one like just oversets on it. And it's like, I think he was lined up

tight on them. And it's like, why are you oversetting on that? That's a detail thing. Like you say, that's a player. Player coach scheme kind of thing. Trent Williams stumbling on one. There's a juke route where Alan Robbinson stumbled on it or the guy ran the route for him.

They squeezed it. Like they knew on third down they're going out in Robinson. Like they were the Browns had a great game playing on defense. There's a sack. I don't even know what it is. Five, six or seven. Third and ten. No chip out.

Feedy gets beat. Sack six. Empty on third and long. Empty on third and long. That's, that's all I need. to say it really feels breaks contained but gets tripped up because you know that's just what goes on then i mean it was that one was it felt like he could have on that one they ran a stunt it felt like he could have escaped to the right instead he bailed to the left and garrett caught up to him but very

few of these in my opinion were on him i thought he missed an rPO to mooney where you just you have to let that rip yeah like that that is open but that was very rare today because even if stuff was coming open there are people in his lap this entire game they were going to in three for three on one side and running a stunt with the end coming off, where Garrett would either roast Daniels as a three technique or be the penetrator on a stunt and be in the quarterback's lap the entire game. It was malpractice. And even they kept trying to run that slide play action we talked about that Herbert ran, but the guy was crashing off the edge. That has been a coaching point throughout the league this year against these boot teams,

is that teams are just saying, fuck it. We will, I don't care if you complete this pass to the tight end. I don't care if the running back gets the ball and I'm not defending the run here. I am going to make a splash, devastating play, and they're just tearing after quarterbacks on that. It's happening all over the NFL. Over the course of a game, you have to have an answer for that. If they keep bringing that guy off there, it's as simple as, one, don't run it or two, just have that tight end seal off the backside. Yep.

It's really, really frustrating to watch these things just pile up and pile up and pile up. And then when it happens two or three or four times, then he's just in his own head about this stuff. Then you're thinking about the rush the entire play. You're staring at it. And then that starts happening. And then eventually they were just sitting on everything. I mean, there's so many plays in the second half where you have guys that are a yard ahead. of where the receiver is going on certain routes.

And it's just there's nothing you can do. At that point, it just starts to unravel and you lose yourself. And that's exactly what happened today. Which is, it just so frustrating because it just shows also a lack of awareness of what your quarterback strengths are. Like the best thing Justin Fields did was push the freaking ball down the field in

college. Yes. And that's where the whole lock onto his receiver thing started, which is bullshit. But it was like with that stuff, it was all down the field. And then you check it down. Touchdown the checkdown.

That's what he operated. And they ran like a quick game or PO offense today. And it was like, yeah, he can do it. But it's like, it just showed a lack of what he can do well. And that's why I was excited to see Justin Fields because I wanted to see him throwing overs and goes and posts and sale routes and big boy throws. And that's, and instead it looked like, it looked like Fields was out and they had to start Dalton. And that's the offense they ran for Dalton. That's what it looked like more today.

It just, it just, and also like the most malpractice thing, I think it was at the end when they just fed him to the wolves and they just stopped providing chip help. And they just went five man, five man, five man, five man, five man protections. That was just that, that's bad. That's just like, it's like you're, you're just hurting you. Like, I hate that kind of stuff because that's just there, the defense is teeing off. The defense knows what you're doing. And you're just not going to help them out. And we saw what happened.

I just, I just don't like that. They, the, the, feels got pressured on 55 percent of his dropbacks. pressured on 55% and people are going to say it's because he held out to the ball too long there were a couple throws today where he should have gotten rid of the ball but that was not the biggest problem today

there were 10 biggest problems today when I was worried about him playing this is why this is why I mean this is exactly why you're playing against the team that is completely outmanning you at front and you have a quarterback

that mentally cannot protect himself yet. And you have a coaching staff who's not able to help him. This was the disaster scenario. This is exactly what I had in mind when I was like, man, I don't, the scar tissue and the bad habits. And you have any more of these days where he's taking nine sacks and getting hit 15 times, getting pressured 55% of the time? This is where things start to go off the rails. And this is literally the worst case scenario. This is the disaster that I feared coming into the season when, if he were going to play early. I know. I, I, I, I, I watched the game last week and I was optimistic.

I was like, okay, they did enough nice things where it's like, okay, they understand what he's doing. And I saw what feels, how he was operating before the snap and he changed the protection and all that stuff. Like, I was pretty fired up because he had already grown from preseason where he's adjusting a protection. And it was like, on this today, it was just by the time he could even get his head straight. It was like, the game's over. Like as far as their offense, that offense was kaput in the second quarter. Just they, they, and it was like, okay, okay, half time, you can adjust. Sorry, we can chalk up that old adage.

That it's like, okay, they're going to adjust that halftime. It's like nothing happened from that. Yeah, we saw what we saw. God, there's so many plays today. There was a first in 10 with 545 in the third quarter. Darnal Mooney jogs in motion from right to left, which I, in what I was, assume was supposed to be jet motion. He jogs in motion from right to left.

No urgency. Miles Garrett pays no mind. Zero mind whatsoever, tears off the edge on one of those slide boots and just blows up the entire play. There was another boot where he was rolled to the right. They ran like a flood concept to that side. Commets in the flat, he turns it up the sideline for some totally unknown reason. You have Jimmy Graham, Jimmy Graham in 2021 running the deep over behind it. It takes him 10 minutes to get over there. So they're standing in the exact same spot because Commetta taking it up the sideline. So there's no space between them. And then he throws a pretty good ball to Goodwin on the third

level of that, Goodwin doesn't come back to the ball and it falls incomplete. It's like, this is a nightmare. Like, it's just every single aspect of what they're doing is wrong. There's something wrong with every single thing about what they're doing. And it's not all in the quarterback. They went one for 11 on third down. And it was, and it was the only one was when he pinned it on Allen Robinson. They had a finally an isolated situation on third long and they ran up like a somewhat intermediate throw. And it was like a deep stop route like 12 yards. They finally got past eight yards on a route. It was bad. I'm glad I looked forward to this all week. It was really enjoyable. I had a really, really good time. I've got a real article on Justin Fields on Friday.

Let's keep the tone nice and rosy here. Another thing I need an explanation for, why did the Steelers think that this was going to go any differently with Ben Rathlisberger? I think they're cooked, man. I do too. I mean, I don't really know what else to say. He averaged 5.41 year yards per attempt today. Talk about Josh Allen's completion percentage.

Ben Rothersberger negative 7.2 completion percentage under expectation. That's. Najee Harris had 18 targets. Yeah.

Yeah. 17 carries 18 targets. Or 14 carries 18 targets. Their offense is completely broken. I mean, I don't know. It's week three.

I understand that things can get better. I don't understand a path to this getting better. No. I don't think there's an argument for why it would. They don't have a young quarterback to go to.

They just like it's, I mean, Dwayne Haskins, but it's just the, this offense, when we watch, we were like, okay, excited. Matt Canada is the Matt Scientist. And okay, all right, all right, all this motion. Okay, they're going to maybe some more play action stuff because they're going to, you know, they drafted in Najee Harris in the first round. They're invested in the run, right? And then we watched it in the preseason.

What did we say, right? Oh, it's exactly the same. It's like a couple more motions in the. zone. Like that's, that's really what it is. They can't keep doing this RPO shit. Like, they just run it. Like, they can't give Ben the option anymore. He's thrown like quickouts when they have a run play. And it's like, great, Trace Claypool will make a guy miss and they get some yards. But it's like the opportunity cost of those is just getting them all out of rhythm. And you're putting in the guy's hands that can't create anymore. So if that doesn't work, it's, it's fucked.

Like the whole play. Everything's a one and done read. Like they, the like wedge screen that they love to do that they for like years and years and years. Bengals had a great play on it. They had a pressure look, double a gap. And then they buzzed out and all their linebackers just ran straight at the bunch because they knew what was coming. And Big Ben didn't know what you do? You went, uh-uh, you like, Statue of Liberty that it just held the ball in the air.

And he was like, oh, and he like spiked it down. That was another problem today is that even when they were struggling last year, at least he was getting the ball out. Yeah. Today, just holding on to it. I mean, they had a seven-man heavy play action, seven-man protection at one point in this game, he took a sack on it. Yeah.

I mean, it's, and that was happening a lot where he's just eating the ball, trying to make something happen with his legs, which definitely isn't happening at this stage of what's going on. I mean, it was, it looked, it looked really, really bad. The shovel pass, he's the shuffle. He's like shuffling and it's like, he doesn't even pitch it with his left hand. He just, he just, like, flicks it with his right hand, like just throwing the shovel. It's not even a shovel.

It's a dart. It's like a little mini dart. I know. It's, it's bad. It's, it's what we, it was everything we thought. I mean, the fourth and 10 at the end of the game. Oh, my God. Like thinking like, okay, all right, if you're going to say, hey, you're going to be the point guard and be the cerebral guy.

And I'm going to let, think and dunk. Everyone thinks they could be Aaron Rogers now. I mean, everyone just for like five years now, everyone thinks, oh, I'm going to operate out no huddle. And I'm just going to think and dunk and throw all these short throws everybody. The fourth and ten at the end of the game, they baited them thinking it was a pressure. And he's like, oh, I'm going to outflank it. And throw it to Najee Harris. And it was like, they had a post coming right behind it.

And it's just like fourth and ten. And you're throwing it short, not even short of the sticks, short of the line of scrimmage. And that's, that's, that's, that's a rough world. Every time he, every time he pushed the ball even slightly down the field today, it was like, it was depressing to watch. I mean, it just, just airmail and stuff. I mean, just nowhere in the vicinity. And it's, it's pretty terrible right now. And I, again, there just don't seem to be that many routes to get getting a lot better.

All right. Let's move on. Let's get to our next segment here. I'm going to ask you to slow, slow me down a little bit. Pumpy brakes key. We know that I can occasionally get overzealous. It's one of my defining personality traits. I'm willing to admit that.

So I think we're going to throw out some ideas here over the rest of the season, and I'm going to have you kind of pull me back. Are the Raiders legitimate Super Bowl contenders? Are the 3-0 Las Vegas Raiders legitimate Super Bowl contenders? Here's why I say this. I know this was not the most impressive win.

This is a game you lose. Yeah. Against a feisty team where you throw a pick six in the first quarter, you don't get a fourth and one on your own 30-something yard line early in the game. You go down 14 to nothing. It's like, ah, you know? Like, the Chiefs today.

That's a game you lose. You just, even if you can stay in it, even if you put up a fight, this is often a game you lose. Instead, the Raiders win this game. And I don't know, man. Like, I just think there's a lot of encouraging things happening there right now. And I don't know. I'm wondering, I'm willing to say it.

I'm willing to say that they are a relevant team in the AFC playoff picture. That's as far as I will go. Okay. Yeah, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, we're not pumping the brakes. We're yielding. Yeah, we're we're yielding at the at the yellow light right now because that that's kind of what it is. I trust this offense. I, I, as far as definitely the passing tech, I, I've seen enough where it's, I like the 12 heavy, heavy, personnel downfield passing attack. It's not just play action. Like, they're just dropping back from these heavy looks, which is really fun. Um, the run game, but on the flip side, I don't still trust this defense. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I just don't to be a true, true Super Bowl contender, but more of a feisty playoff team. I think that's where we're both leaning on. How good of a defense do you have to be, though? Like, truly, how good of a defense do you have to be to be a real contender? If this offense is one of like seven best offenses in the league, or even better than that

by the end of the season, if their offensive line comes together, they got young pieces up there, if they really coalesce over the rest of the year and they're like the fifth best offense in the NFL. How good does their defense really have to be? They just have to be not shit, I guess. They have to be like, and they have not been shit. They've been tolerable. Yes.

And they have been that. They are ninth in EPA per play through three games. That's ridiculous. That is ridiculous. I know they've played Jacoby percent. The Steelers team, we just talked about being cooked. And they played the Ravens in week one. They played the Ravens in week one with no offense of tackles.

So the context is important. And EPA is not adjusted for. opponent. But, but the vision coming into this year for this Raiders team was this, we have the formula offensively. We just need a little couple tweaks here and there. If we get a little bit more from Derek where it's, and the way he's making plays under pressure and just out of structure, like that is that, that's the step that need. I thought he played extremely well last year and over the last couple years. If you look at a lot of the numbers, he was being more aggressive down the field last year. But this

out of structure stuff where he's making plays on the move, that's cool. That is a little bit different than what we've seen. You combine that with rugs looking like a real player now. Yes. Where that is, he's making contested catches. He's a real part of the offense. Yes.

And then obviously, and Edwards has given them just kind of that big body option that I think only makes plays in the fourth quarter overtime when the game is on the line, which is fine. And then Waller is like a true superstar, right? Yeah. Yeah. And And I think that all of those pieces, and so again, just turn the volume up a tiny bit on what it's been over the last two years. And then we just need a defense that is full of professionals.

And I think that's what you're getting. I don't think they're going to have this tear the league down pass rush over the course of the entire season. But I do think Crosby and Gokwe are useful players. And I think that Casey Hayward is playing extremely well. And if more it can be somebody that plays pretty well as a rookie and is just a solid, reliable piece back there, it's all they need to be is fine and I do think that there is a pathway for that version of this team to exist at the offensive part I'm gonna man you're not buying the defense you're still just like I'm just picturing because I'm like yeah man you're like starting to talk me into it I was

like yeah yeah you know you know the linebackers didn't look too bad and I was like oh but any team that can run on them I think is they're going to give a lot of issues I know I know would they play the Ravens, but that game is such an outlier, I think, week ones are. But I, I do 100% believe in the offense because, like, you were bringing up the point with Renfro and Waller and Rugs. Renfro too. I didn't even mention Renfro who's playing awesome this year. Oh, my God. I know he's fantastic. But that is so hard to stop because maybe it's kind of like the Packers in the sense they have the Alpha with Devante Adams and the whole bunch of nice role players with it. Yes. Same time of thing with Waller and then all these other guys. And,

the sense, well, Renfro is like in his own role is like a superstar role player. But it's like those guys are really hard to stop for a defense throughout an entire game. Like one off so you can stop them. But having a tight end and a legit move around slot guy and then you have matchup nightmares and a coach that creates matchups, that is where they get really dangerous. And that's exactly what this offense is. And that's why it's so fun to watch. Yeah.

The puzzle pieces are fitting really nicely. And then you just got rugs up at the top. Like it's like, okay, that's nice. It's not a lot of overlap with their skill sets. but that works if you're designing really good place. And that's what they're doing. And that's, I know,

but I just, like you said, I just can't believe the defense. It's just, but, and they're not going to play Jacoby-Prisen every week. And it's just, this offense is legitimately fond.

And it's, that is what's going to carry. I love you. Keep saying the offense. The offense. I can't. I can't. I can't,

I can't see Yonick Nagu Kegu Kyi playing against the run for 18 weeks or 17 weeks and then going into January and like playing these teams are just going to pound it. right at him. I just, I don't know. It's tough. The whole point of this is for me to play devil's advocate a little bit during the segment, which is going to create a lot of just, I can't wait, horrible sound bites that people are going to come back and you bite me with. But Gus Bradley is the definition of good enough. Like, that's exactly what he's supposed to be.

You, you hire Gus Bradley so you can be good enough. And I think that's what they're trying to do. And I think so far, it's been okay. I am curious to see where it goes from here. Because I was super skeptical of it because the way they built this, right, by going to get the Gus Bradley All-Stars with In Gokwey and Casey Hayward and KJ Wright and Denzel Perryman. It was in Quentin Jefferson. It was a joke. It was, but it does work to a certain extent. The problem is, as you get deeper into the AFC playoffs, you're going to be playing against the team like the Bills who just has just talent lining the whole roster. And their upside on defense is much higher than yours.

And that's the concern. But I will say, I do think that this formula could make them relevant deep into the season. And that's what I'll say. That's as far as I'm willing to go. Hey, how about the NFC West. We're going to have to play with this segment. We're going to have to see how dangerous I'm willing to get with some of this stuff and how far of a limb I'm willing to walk out on because I'm afraid of the internet for the most part.

How much liability are willing to hang out there? How much I hate myself. We're going to have to start figuring that out. Oh, no. So we need some more of these Bears games so we could just get the hottest and hot takes going out. Just because I have nothing left to lose. Yeah. That's exactly what we need.

Just fire them all off. Not today, my good man. I'm feeling saucy. All right. Every week we like to talk about the secret sauce that helped the team win. Just a little kind of understated aspect of a game or a particular concept or idea that we noticed that we felt might be important. So you saw something during the Sunday night game.

that you wanted to point out. Why don't you take it from here? Yeah. And it would be long. It's, it's pretty, a pretty simple thing to kind of explain, but the Jaya Alexander Interception,

where he made a hell of an athletic play and basically ran over the top of a post route coming from the opposite side. Yeah, just normal stuff. Just normal, casual stuff. Yeah. Actually,

this is a part of a reason why actually this is hilarious. They probably only see this in the NFL is because you can do this with NFL. It is, I really want to say this term. He's called Slingshot, and I've referenced it before, but if defensive guys, if you want to correct me in my, my Twitter at Nate underscore Tice, yeah, you can you can tweet right at me with this. But we're seeing more of these quarters coverages. And with quarters coverages with two high stuff, a good way to really hit a shot play on this. And this is the only time Jimmy G went deep tonight is running a post over combination or a dig post combination. And it is a classic combination. You've heard me on this podcast and Robert on this podcast, talk about so many teams doing it because we love it. We love posting overs. They're fun plays. It's big shot plays. It's awesome offense. Touchdown to checkdown. On these against quarters, the safety is going to drive on those overs and he's going to come downwards on them and drive

on the overs. The corner playing the post that has outside leverage. Naturally, that's going to create a nice wide open post throw with whole bunch of space to work with for that post where the quarterback can lay it out there front side. How defense is, especially in the NFL, combat this is they slingshot the opposite corner all the way back in the post like Jayair tonight. And what you're doing is you're basically just squeezing the route. Now you got two guys forming a V, you know, vicing this post route that's going deep. And we've seen it crop up a couple times in the first three weeks.

And I can name one each week. Week one, Aaron Rogers threw the deep pick. And he was kind of just saying F it and just threw this ball up anyways. But the Saints, like on who it is, but the Saints corner sprinted and ran the post for the guy. Same thing. That's what that was. It was hit that guy coming from the opposite side. He had nothing to hold him.

And he just run to the post. He's taking away that post route. It's, it's kind of hard to call both things post because there's post safety. There's post route. There's running to the post, which is the deep, deep middle of the field.

So I'm sorry if I'm confusing anybody, but that's what that's what football is. It's a lot of using the same terms to describe five different things. But, and then last week, the Cardinals had one, or I'm sorry, the Vikings had one against the Cardinals.

And what it was, Kyler ended up throwing this short, It was in the red zone or near the red zone. He threw it right at the goal line. He ended up underthrown the ball. So the corner made it or the safety drove on it, picked it off and stepped in front. But Breshaad Brieland was coming from the opposite side and running to the post. He was going to pick it off anyways.

And we're seeing more and more of this just because of the natural, what we've talked about for months and months and months, more too high defenses. So now this is, offenses are attacking that. We're seeing more posts and overs post-de combinations that are going to take advantage of that safety driving. So now it's cool to see what's the. defensive answer to that. You're not going to just let teams hit posts on you over and over and over. Otherwise, you just can't run quarters. So this is, it's just a cool way of like, oh, how do you defend that? Okay, this. And I actually had Andy Hutchins tweeted at me. He replied, he was like, so what does a, like, offense do to like kind of take advantage of that? Like, you know, what? How do you hold Jire Alexander? And it's like, Captain hindsight says run a different past design. That's basically, that's your answers. Check it.

and okay, live to play another day. Hopefully your quarterback sees that guy flying to the post. Jimmy G. did not. But it's also really what it is is like, okay, we got to take advantage that somehow. We run a corner. We run something with the Rams ran in week one where it looks like a posting over and then there goes Van Jefferson run to the high corner on a pylon route. That's what the next tweak is.

But it's cool because we're going to see this throughout the league. We're seeing the same types of offenses, these play action shots, and we're going to see these same types of defenses. So you're going to just see this kind of combination play out a couple times. Helps when you have Jayre Alexander running faster than the post route. That also helps. That'd be able to do that. That's probably why you only said.

Not today, my good man. I'm feeling sorry. It was talking to an offensive play caller coming into the year about some of the more quarters and what it would mean. He said against an older version of quarters, it's a little bit more aggressive. When you are driving on things, you're throwing posts all day. That was the answer. You're throwing posts all day. So if you're throwing posts all day, this is how defenses have to respond, which is great.

So, again, the whole point of this segment is so when you're watching, you can be the Leo meme from Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, which someone tweeted us this week about a wineback block. We love you. It's exactly what we're shooting for, so we sincerely appreciate it. You guys don't realize how excited that makes me when you guys do that. All Nate wants is recognition

for wineback blocks. It's all he wants in the world. All right, before we get out of here, it's time to talk about who won the belt in the week three. And that's the bottom line. Because Stone Cold Sipso. I love you, Kett. I love that we're going to be cycling those in and out. We're changing it weekly now.

This is awesome. Let me rephrase. The only thing Nate wants in the world is you recognize in windback blocks and pro wrestling references. That's all you want in the world. There's really only one way to go with this. And this is with the man who kicked a 66 yard field goal today and won the game for the Ravens. So Drew Brees pointed this out on NBC, which was, and I noticed it in the moment, but I thought it was a mistake. So when he lined up, first of all, the throw that Lamar made to set this up was just ridiculous.

But when Tucker lined up to kick the field goal, he moved. And I thought that he had had like a false step and that he thought that in whatever reason his timing is thrown off. But Breeze observed that he actually took like a crow hop before he got into his approach because he knew he needed more juice, which is amazing. Happy Gilmore. That's exactly what it was. It was happy Gilmore kicking. It was awesome. And it could not have been more perfect.

The fact that it hit the crossbar and then just had that moment where on TV, there's no way to know which direction it's going. So all you see is it pop up and I'm sitting there with my brother and I'm like, oh my God. Because it looked good. As soon as left his foot, I was like, it's good. It's good. And then it hits the crossbar and I was like, oh. And then it pops in. And I just started going crazy.

It was what an awesome moment. I mean, just and the fact that I mean, I don't think there's any conversation. He's the greatest kicker of all time. Yeah. He probably, he already was the greatest kicker of all time.

And now the fact that he has this feather in his cap and the belt around his waist, you got to give it to the guy. I mean, what a moment. I didn't even know that was like a discussion day. He's the greatest kicker of all time. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

He definitely is. Yeah. Oh, I know. So that title belt is not only for the week. But yeah, it's like he's the linear champion for, for having the kicker belt as far as the fact that he's the most accurate kicker of all time and he plays in outdoor stadiums in baltimore he plays in the asc north he plays a game a year in hinds field

and he's the most accurate kicker in NFL history it's it's absurd no no no dome games or anything like that oh i know i actually thought at first it hit the camera uh oh yeah yeah and i was like that would be actually pretty awesome if it did that but the crowhop's hilarious that is good for the happy go more because drew breese of course knows that uh well probably especially late career, Drew Grease and knowing when you have to throw all hell Mary. Look at you. Just taking shots. I should know.

I can't make fun of anyone with that. But it's those little crow hops, man. You have to do it. You have to like, all right, here we go. You're just taking that little hop up and you're getting a rhythm. You've thrown it? You ever seen like the old, yeah, of course you've seen this. Like the old QB contest he used to do at the Pro Bowl and stuff.

Oh, of course. Yeah, yeah. No, watching all the quarterbacks and then like throw the longest throw. Because every quarterback I've ever been around kind of has a different way to throw your longest throw. Like I almost needed someone to like trot. So I almost like trick my brain into like throwing it like leading. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's hilarious watching Peyton Manning do it. Like some guys just like crow hop, like, like, Brett Farver, I think did it. He was just crow hop and just whip it. Paten, of course, did like a full like a full like play action drop back. And then like we take like five, five crow hops into

it and throw it like 64 yards. You couldn't do it. Like those parts of the process of those weren't in there. He just physically couldn't do it. He had to do the entire thing. Look it up. It's hilarious. It's like I love it because he didn't even just do a drop back. He had to do a play action, turn his back. Like it's like, come on, man. Come on, Peyton. Like, he just can't get out of that machine robot world. But it's awesome.

I mean, it's fun talking about, we talked about the Janikowski kick last year or last year like over a decade ago when Lane Kiffin was the head coach and he had him kicked the 70 something yarder. Well, that was the thing. We had both outcomes today. We had the 66 yarder that went in. We had the 68 yarder that was returned 109 yards for a touchdown. That's possible outcome.

It's almost a bad thing that Prater made the field goal last week because then Cliff's like, oh, I'll just try them back out there. And then they return it 109 yards for a score. Just a great week for kicking moments. Just a great week for kicking moments and a great week for NFL football. It didn't matter of last week's was indoor, you know, anything on turf. We're going to road at Jacksonville. What do you think the humidity was in Jacksonville, that thick, thick air?

Oh, it's miserable. I know. And the fact is, like, Urban, do you even know how to, like, celebrate was also hilarious? Like, he, like, didn't know that, like, he, like, just didn't know. Like, everyone's, like, like, like, rocking him. He's just like, oh, my God. Like, you know, it's, oh, it's like, oh, man, is Anedonia personified? All right.

Before we get out of here, a couple things that we want to keep, we're keeping an eye on for this week that we did not get to. I want to go back and watch the Colts offense. I did not watch much of that game today. it seemed really bad. I mean, you look at some of the numbers and they're startling and a little bit disconcerting, not a little bit,

very unsettling if you're a Colts fan. The trade might be bad news. I mean, it might be bad, bad news. I mean, he is not playing very well. I want to watch the Patriots offense ahead of this Bucks game. I don't know if you knew this,

but the Bucks are playing the Patriots next week. Oh, wow. Yeah, if you caught that, the Dell commercial is just pure emotional manipulation. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I'm into it a little bit. That's fine. I hate that I like it, but I'm into it a little bit. We've hit that age where you're just kind of like, oh, it's the lowest common denominator. Yeah, lowest common denominator. And I am in the lowest common denominator, which is fine. I, at this point, one of the greatest transitions in my life I've ever made is just not giving a shit about being cool anymore. Like, it has been a freeing, freeing experience for me. And we have certainly reached that. I've board games.

We're going to, so. behind me right now. Yeah, I just do not care anymore. So we're going to go back and watch Patriots offense this week. Also, the Broncos defense. To play the Jets this week, but they've been playing well. Obviously, the Broncos are 3 and 0. We talked a lot about the Broncos offense last week when Nick Hosmiter was on.

We were talking with him with Lindsay. So I want to kind of dig into the Broncos defense a little bit this week. We'll get to all of that stuff on the athletic football show over the next few days. In the meantime, really appreciate you guys listening. Please subscribe. to The Athletic. If you have not, Theathletic.com slash football show.

I think I might write this week. So you can come check that out. Sometimes I still write. So I have something I've been cooking up and I, this is the week to break it out. Somebody played well and I'm going to use it as an excuse. So please check back on that. Theathletic.com slash football show.

Please rate and review the podcast on Apple. If you're an Apple listener, I would sincerely appreciate you guys doing that. Also, please submit to the mailbag. We would do a mailman. bag episode we're recording tomorrow afternoon with Charles McDonald from For the Win. So please tune in to that and submit your questions for me and Chuck. Email them to athletic football show at gmail.com or if you prefer, which we love, leave us a voicemail.

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I will see you later this week. Sounds good. Can't wait. All right. See you guys later. This was the Athletic Football Show.