The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Patriots’ dominant defense, why Washington’s offense is working & how bad are the Jaguars failing Trevor Lawrence with Nate Tice + Sheil Kapadia’s Week 13 picks

Episode Date: December 3, 2021

Robert Mays and Nate Tice begin the “Friday Five” by discussing how the Patriots’ defense is bullying offenses this season. They also examine why Washington’s offense is working with Taylor Heinicke, the Chargers’ offensive game plan and how bad the Jaguars are failing Trevor Lawrence. Finally, Sheil Kapadia hopes for a big Week 13 as Nate gains ground in the picks segment.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Football Show. The Athletic Football Show is presented by State Farm. Because like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Get a quote today. Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. Today is Friday, December 3rd. I'm Robert Mays. Great show for you guys today.

Shooka Pottie is going to be joining us a little bit later for our weekly pick segment. We're going to dig into the Friday 5 today. We pick five topics, questions, big things heading into the week. We're going to chat a little Washington offense. We're going to dig into the RPO world. The dolphins are living in. Talk about Nate dumping on the charters in a way that was unfair on Sunday's show. A little mea culpa from both of us.

And we are going to talk about just how bad the Jaguars are failing Trevor Lawrence. Before we do any of that, I want to talk about the New England Patriots and how they have built an absolute bully on defense this season. You look at it, they're playing the bills this weekend, Nate, on a Monday night in a huge game. They are first in a weighted defensive DVOA. This is a time as a flat circle sort of situation with Belichick just building another monster on that side of the ball. As you've watched the last couple of Patriots games, as you've dug into the tape of the game they had against the Titans last week, what has jumped out to you about the way that the paths are playing right now? It's like Belichick got his guys and he's unleashing him.

And we think of Belichick as a bit of a DB guru. Like he really is. It's like he can get undrafted corners playing like. defensive player of the year of candidates. And, but honestly, he's always had a type up front. He likes big thumpers. It's like I'm D-Line and linebackers and watching this team play right now when they get these three, four sets and just how they like playing the Titans was perfect,

but it was a great little snapshot. We watched them play the Saints before this year. We watched them or earlier in this year. We watched it play the Cowboys. We focus on those types of games. We've taken a look at their offense a lot. But watching this defense is kind of, it's kind of nice seen a little familiarity. Like, you know, kind of seeing like, hey, this is a little old school right now.

And seeing like that kind of like crop up a little bit. Like they're like an old school three, four fronts where it's a head up nose and they have their D.Ns lined up over the tackles. Either head up on right the tackle. And even wider sometimes. They're in five texts. Yeah, I know. And that's old school. Yeah.

When you break down like as a quality control guy, you break down defensive fronts, break down coverages and everything of opponents. And there's just ways to tag everything. So you say like three, four odd, which is just if you're thinking of a three, four front. those guys are four I, which is inside the tackles. If they're in a three tech and they're covering the guards, it's bare. But then there's another adjustment, which is three, four, five, which is three, four, with five techs. And you don't see that much.

I think of my two years doing it with the Raiders, I marked down two plays in two years where I saw that. They're doing it like every other snap. And it's when you watch it, especially against what that does, first off is it takes away cloth for double teams. And when you get a team like the Titans that love their double teams, they love those own stuff. And all the variations off of that is now those guards are releasing to the second level.

The center has to win a double team against a big ass nose. Look at a lot of centers in the league right now. A lot of 300 pound types, 305 pound types. Yep. A lot of speed finesse guys makes sense. A lot of past setting is becoming more and more important at that position. Not a lot of guys are ready to build against a 320 pound or 330 pound or head up. And that guy's two gap.

And I mean, it's old school. It's really cool, actually. And then those guards will release. to his second level, you got High Tower, you got Bentley, you got these big thumping linebackers that can take on guards. So I'm talking, usually we focus on the back end with this front, but it's so fun to watch the front end for this, for this team. And different guys are making plays for them. Barmore is a monster, High Tower, Lawrence Guy, Joam Bentley, Judon, of course. They just, it's just rotating all these guys. It's a really, really fun unit on base downs and on

pass downs. Then you get the Patriots, you know, the Blitz stuff, the cover zero. that I'm seeing ghost stuff, then you get soft cover two dropping eight, like where they just have guys everywhere, really heady players on the back end. Really, really fun unit. And it's cool to hear the way to DVOA because that's how they look right now. They're playing fast. We talk about confidence with the defense. This is a confident defensive unit.

Judon got a sack. Seven guys on that Patriots front were doing a celebration with him. Not only were they anticipating the sack. On the first play, too. Yes. On the first play, that's when you come out. Remember there was that moment when the Chiefs played the Cowboys and the guys are just dancing everywhere.

When they're doing that in that menacing way, defense is, it's like, oh, shit, we're in trouble now. The first play of the game, I think the first play of the game is a perfect example of where they're at right now and what they're doing against the Titans last week. They line up in the exact front that you're talking about, okay? Lawrence guy just destroys the tackle to that side, just tosses them and makes the play in the back.

backfield. But as he's doing that, Hightower just takes a bullet path toward Roger Saffold, blows him up and then gets in on the play. It's just the type of play you don't see from most defenses because they don't line up like that and they don't have those sorts of guys. And afterwards, Guy does like a home run, Clayys Campbell celebration. Everyone's celebrating with him.

It's like, oh, God, we're in trouble. You don't see Patriots defense. As soon as that happens, like, oh, we're in trouble. What is this? And the Titans ran. for a bunch of yards, but they had a 70 yard thrown in there. They had a negative EPA per play. It was a draw. Yeah. A couple

draws. They had a negative EPA per play on the day. They had 90 yards passing. Okay? Like the Patriots handily won that game. So you look at that, and I think that that brings us to where this defense is. Coming into the season, I thought this front

seven was going to bully people. That's what I thought that they were going to be defensively. I thought that they had so many ass kickers up there. And that's exactly what's happened. And it's so fun to watch this defense go an entire different direction from the way that the league is going. And Pelichick has always done that, right? It's always finding these inefficiencies. And we talk about that on offense, where they have this downhill ISO running game where their fullback is just leading up on linebackers. You know, when the Patriots, or excuse me, when the Niners are using their fullback, when the Bravens are using theirs, they're using motion and they're trying to get to the perimeter. I mean, it's a modern version of a two-back offense. The Patriots are running a two-back offense from 20 years ago, and they're killing people with it. Defensively, they're running an old-school type of defense with the way they line up and with their personnel. One of the reasons they can do that when moving their defensive ends a little bit further out and allowing guards to get on their linebackers,

like you said, they have 255-pound linebacks, which is unheard of us with the way the game is played right now. And offenses just aren't used to dealing with those sorts of personnel. If you take it one step further, I thought the numbers who were fascinating. All right. Patriots have had 407 snaps in single high this season. It's the most in the NFL. They've also had 781 plays with five or six DBs on the field, which is the second most in the NFL. So they have this weird combination of a single high defense that's flooded with defensive backs.

And so they've been able to play single high and be able to defend the run. But the way they flooded the intermediate areas of the field with the, DBs and just different sorts of DBs still allows them to defend the past. It's very, very cool when you see it all working together. And guys like Kyle Dugger filling a specific role, Adrian Phillips filling a specific role. They just have so many different guys that are useful in very specific ways. And then the last thing I'll say about just the overall trends, I texted you this last night. It's awesome.

This season through 12 weeks, there have been 3,247 snaps of course. quarters in the NFL. Last year through 12 weeks, there were 2,670 snaps of quarters. That's a 21% jump in the use of quarters through the first 12 weeks of the season. When we were talking about what the trends would look like coming into the NFL this year, the too high shell coverage look with that early down quarters is what we were talking about. We're just, we're not going to let you beat us. We're going to play that shell dome.

We're going to keep everything in front of us. Of those 3,247 quarter snaps, the Patriots have 10 of them. That's ridiculous. 10. It's, the average is 1001 per team. And the Patriots have 10. It's probably all in the red zone too.

Like, you know what I mean? It's like, you talk about zigging where people zag, man. I mean, it's unbelievable how they're just like, fuck it. Yeah.

Like all the, you could take your trends and you could like shove them. I have no interest in any of this. We have our identity and we are going to lean into it fully. That's what they did. Yeah, I know. When you,

yeah, Zigging whatever else zags. That's what they're doing, man. And it's they, they can play like the three, four front with, with cover two behind it on base down sometimes because they have so many ass kickers. Like you said, all their defensive front guys can two gap. And they can play both gaps. We're seeing some weaknesses a little bit with the Chargers defense is you want to buy the too high. They're trying to tweak it, but they don't have the personnel that horses up front to hold those gaps and hold those double teams and make it sloppy for the offense.

And yeah, you might you might get a run. they might get three or four yards, but you only get three and four yards. These Patriots defense, like, they're getting gashed. Other defense try to do this. No, not the Patriots. It's like, nope, we're just going to have a whole bunch of 300 pounders up there. And one of the weaknesses you would think is, oh, their linebackers are thudders. They can't move side to side.

They can't go, you know, sideline to sideline. They don't need to because it's all built together because their D ends are so big. They set the edge. And so now, yeah, if you want to go outside zone, well, it doesn't matter because you're not getting the edge. your tight end is getting his ass kicked by her 280 pound D.N. Who's just going to thump and push him back. So now those big thumping linebackers. And they're set so why?

Yes. And so it's like, it all works together. It's like, wow, it's like Bill Belchick knows what he's doing. But man, it is like,

like Judon's a perfect example too. It's like he's always had his type of guy, but now he's got the souped up version of it. He upgraded. He went, he went from a, you know, I'm not a car guy,

but he went from a Ford to an Asson Martin. But, you know, you know, that's the best I can do. But that's what he did. He was like, hey, I like this. I got some money saved up, which he did, literally did, Bill Belichick, the GM did. And he's like, I'm going to splurge a little bit.

I'm going to get myself a Christmas gift this year. And that's what Matt Judon is. It's like, that's what he did. Rather than get some cheapy, some guy retread, Kyle Van Noy type, he was like, I'm going to get the souped up version. And it's working out for him because that's what this whole defense is. It's a souped up version of what we've seen. But it's, we haven't seen a Patriots defense like this in a while. Really?

I mean, just... The cool part of it that I like is that we've talked about positionless football and versatility and hybrid players with other teams like the Panthers, right? If you look at the Panthers hybrid players, they all weigh 2.30. Yeah. If you look at the Patriots hybrid players, they all weigh 260. Yep. So there's just an entirely different physicality when they're lined up in those mugged up looks. Because that's the cool part of this defense is that Judon can drop.

You can have, you can drop eight guys, even if you can drop. if you have that mugged up look with all those big bodies. You can drop Hightower. You can bring them. You can drop Bannoy. You can bring them. So there's a lot of uncertainty, but there's a physicality, especially in the run game, being able to just take it to teams that most other teams that

are built like this don't necessarily have because the body types are smaller. Yes. And the fact that they've been able to get away with this is very cool to watch. A play that jumped out to me just in terms of the uncertainty. Like when you don't know what they're going to bring in a given situation, the first third down that the Titans had, they came. out in a bunch to the left. And they ran like a little pick play.

Which when you play a team like the Patriots that likes to run a lot of man coverage, that makes sense. It's third down. It's a team playing. Let's run a pick play. They dropped eight and it was covered. Oh, I know. And they're picking nobody.

And that is where it is right now where they can do so many different things out of pretty much every look that they have. It's really hard to anticipate what they're going to be in on a given plus. And when you have talent and that uncertainty, you're just having quarterback X, Eaton sacks. The defensive line is cooking. I mean, it is all working in concert right now in a very cool way. That play.

That's a great example because like Adrian Phillips on it. He's mugged up and they drop out. So they look like a pressure look. You know it was third and two, I think. And it was like a little pressure look. And then Adrian Phillips right at the snap of the ball. You can tell how heady all these guys are, how smart they are, how well coached they are. They're all looking up for the concept.

It was like they all dropped out and they're like, okay, we know what you're doing. Even though it was a game play and play for the Titans that they're only running on third down. probably only once or twice this year, they knew exactly where it is. And it's when a team playing fast, they're talented. And we talked about their offense, kind of being a deep bench,

like a basketball team going nine deep. Defense is the same way. That's what it is. It's just like, in every area. In every single area. I mean, just all the defensive linemen they can rotate into,

all of the defensive backs they can rotate with. It's cool. I mean, it is the perfect version of the way the Belichick wants to play. A couple specific guys. It feels like Jalen Mills has been a really good communicator for them.

There were a couple different plays where he's, there was a vertical that they tried to run. And he was passing it off to the free safety. He's just like, he's like, this is the number one receiver to his side was in a condensed split. They had motioned into it. And he was motioning back to McCord. And he's like, he's coming. He's coming. You don't, that's you.

And I'm here. And it was just like, oh, that's really cool to see. And then the other guy that is just so much fun to watch now that he's back is high top. And it's just, he is such a Patriot specific player. in any other defense, I don't know what he looks like. He's a throwback to a different era. Remember we did the Hall Very Good coming into the season? He walks into the Hall of Very Good the moment his career ends.

The Hall of Very Good was built for Dante High Tower. He's been to two Pro Bowls in his entire career, but all of those amazing playoff moments that he's had and just how fun he is to watch. He is the exact type of guy that is impossible not to appreciate when you watch him enough over time. Yeah, he's a football. guy's football player. I mean, that's like,

yes. And I'm never going to be to one. Like, oh, I'm a football guy, but it's like, he is just so fun to watch because he's so he's so heady. That first play was awesome. I'm glad he talked about too because he was like the juggernaut like from Marvel. Like he just like, he was like, oh, I blew up everything and just got in there. I was like, holy crap. Like that. Imagine being having to block that 260 pounds who knows exactly what you're about to do and is willing to bring it. It's like, screw that. Like, I feel bad for him. Put his forearm in Roger Saffold's ribs. It was nasty. Saffold. Saffled.

I know. If Saffold's getting, you know, I should say punk, but getting brolin up like that, it's like, ooh, I feel bad for some of these backup guards. Like, God forbid, Daniel Brunskill has to block him. So the one thing I want to point out in reference to this week's game, right? If you look at the most recent Pat's opponents, okay, in terms of usage of three or more wide receiver sets, Titans are 21st in the league at 60%. Falcons are 32nd at 35%.

the Browns are 28th at 50%. The chargers are 20th at 61%. The bills are as wide out as spread out as an offense gets. So as this Patriots defense has started rolling, we have not had to see them deal with an offense that's structured like this. So when you can take these bigger base looks that they have,

that we have loved to see, and you can break them apart, what does this look like? And that's why I think stylistically, it's such an interesting matchup, and I'm wondering what the bills do, because we've seen them struggle at times when they've just spread out and thrown it around, but do they want to do that against this team in order to kind of get those bigger bodies in space? And also, though, like the Patriots, we've already seen it.

That's such a great point, too. They go going against more base sets. Yeah, it's a great, great point. But it's, I'm curious what they lean into on this game plan because we, the Patriots can run cover two and they can bring a lot of heat. And the bills have struggled a little bit with pressures the last few weeks. and was this belichick which one does he lean into you know which flavor of you know have his chocolate vanilla strawberry ice cream which one is he to go with against this bill's bill's offense

this matchup is so much fun on both sides of the ball because it's like yeah just i know we're talking about the Patriots defense but also on the flip side i want to see this Patriots offense against that bill's defense as well like i i'm really really excited for this whole game on monday night well what are the bills going to do defensively i mean the two teams that have really brought it to them physically with the course of this season. With Tennessee and the Colts, they beat them up.

And I think that the Patriots, where the Patriots defense may have to have a little shift philosophically in order to take advantage of the Bill's offense, the Patriots offense can just be what they are and take advantage of what the bills have been on defense. So that, I think I can envision what that matchup looks like in my mind pretty easily. This one's a little bit hard. For as much as I like what the Patriots have done,

it feels like they're going to have to change the dials. a tiny bit to play against this Bill's team in the right way. All right. Let's get to our next one here. I want to know how in the hell Washington has constructed an offense that has made Taylor Heineke the most efficient quarterback in the NFL over the past month. Over the past four games, Taylor Heineke leads the league in EPA per play. I love that.

I bet I get some twice too. I love that I bet it gets them twice. Listen, even if that's fluky. Even if that's a sample size, you know, endpoints, randomness, whatever, the fact that this team is middle of the road offensively over the course of the year. I think they're 15th and offensive DVA for the entire season. And they've had a backup quarterback play for that entire time. It's not like they've been healthy elsewhere. Curtis Samuel has not played.

He's gotten six snaps a game as a gadget player when they paid him to be like a true top option as a receiver. They're on center number three. right now. Brandon Scherf limped off last week. Sam Cosme's on IR, so they have Cornelius Lucas playing right tackle for them. I've lived the Cornelius Lucas life. We all have. There's a version of Cornelius Lucas that your team has dealt with. He's a fine swing tackle, right? Fine. But when you're playing with your swing tackle all season, you start to see the cracks a little bit. And the fact that they've been able to field an average offense for most of the season, and at times a super efficient offense with a backup quarterback who was not an NFL player for the last five years

and backup offensive lineman in some pieces and dandre carter is their number two receiver this is a testament i mean just he was yes look at yes and antonio gibson had a bum shin for a little while like this if you listed off the injuries starting with the backup quarterback this could be disaster level offense and it's been the opposite of that over the last month or so. So how have they done this? With gum and toothpicks, but it's really, I mean, honestly, they, it's really, really and I sound like a broken record sometimes when I say this, but it's, it holds up true.

It's, it's really good concepts, good sound passing in concepts that is windowed dressed to the max. It is like, it is as possible, as much as you could possibly dress up a fourverts concept, they are going to try and do either personnel formation, motion. They use a lot of motion as well. So much motion to, man. They just have to. It's like they're trying to any like they say, oh, you know, motion going to add 2%.

It's like, okay, well, let's eke out that 2%. You know, like just any little percentage they can get. They're trying to eke it out. And you got to commend them. It's really, they had a sale concept. There's a couple of third down concepts that they were on. I mean, I'm third down passing. I should just say passing concepts.

They're just running sale. The sale concept, which is usually a three man side. It's a flat. It's a, you know, it's a slot. corner and it's a go. They ran like a super sale. And it wasn't a four strong concept, which we've heard before against the Seahawks. They ran a five strong sale concept against the Seahawks.

They had everybody overloading the side. And it worked and Heineke ended up checking it down to the tight end. There was nobody there because the defense had to. Yeah, had to push so hard against it. But it was like, yeah, he's checking it down. But those checkdowns are going for first downs. It's not, you know, that was the same. And he did that several times in that game where he's working to the checkdown.

but because there's so much space, he had one to Humphreys on third down, where the Humphreys is on a little shallow cross on like third and six, checked it down to Humphreys, and they blitzed. And McKissick is a great, Macisic is great pass protection. Yes.

So that's why it's just like, it all works. It's like, all right, we're going to bring five and our quarterback, who can be a little over ambitious sometimes, is going to check it down because our little undersized passing back is able to pick up that blitz.

It's just did little tiny things. Like, it's fun to watch. It is. That sums it up perfectly. J.D. McKissick is a key player for them and he's playing well. Yes. And it's like, and he's doing the right thing time and time again. They are well coached. They, they don't get into these funky formations and guys are going like, like what? And guys run into each other or what, you know, the young backup receivers run the wrong route. No, everybody knows what they're doing because they're not really running crazy, crazy concepts. I mean, you see sale, you see forverts a lot. You see a little bit of white cross. You see just like good, good pass plays. But they just dress them up. And everyone, knows what they do. And it's, it's, yeah, I like it. But also the run game. Like they're max,

they're getting what they can with what they have. Like they, they just run a little bit of everything. We're, we've talked about the bills and the chiefs struggling to run the ball, how spread looks. Washington's a lot of spread too. And they are finding run plays that work for them. They're going like they run GT counter, which is where he pulled the garden tackle, which, you know, we'll, we associate with like Lamar Jackson, not Tyler Hankekekeke, running it. But it works for them because it's, it's, they're running against these. the defense has to go too high against these spread looks. Well, that's a juicy run look if we know which we're doing.

They're running Y insert out of like sniffer formations with what's his name, John Bates, the rookie tight end who is 87. Yeah. He's a plus blocker as a rookie, which is like good for him. Like they're there. He's going to have a role for about 10 years. They use him in interesting ways too. I mean, he's motioning across and like, yeah, doing like WAM blocks and sometimes

they line him up as elite blocker. So they're still, they're playing with that because they're, they're an 11 person team. Like that is what they want to be in. It's what they've been in for essentially the entire year. They have 519 snaps out of 11 this year. It's the third most in the league. And they've actually been an average rushing team out of those sets.

When they've spread to run, their running game has looked average, which doesn't sound all that sexy. When you consider how not excellent their offensive line is and the fact they've dealt with injuries there, to be an average running team with their personnel, that's pretty good. Like that is a very good result. You only can name one offensive alignment off the top of your head. Like I could.

Like I looked at a line and I'm like, who's starting for them again? Oh, Sheriff, okay. Who the hell is that? Like that's what you're like, who the hell's playing center for them? Like, okay, okay, I got to remember who that guy is. Well, now it's Keith Ishmael. And the fact that they get a decent return from Eric Flowers. Yes.

You know, things like that. I think that they've gotten the most out of their offensive players. It really have. And I think that says a lot. The one play they ran a couple. different times that I loved was the out and up stop. Yeah. Like the squirrel route.

So they did it twice in that game against Seattle. And it's funny because we've seen a lot of corners run out and ups for people recently. Like a lot of teams aren't taking – he did it again against the Chargers, by the way. They tried to throw a back shoulder ball to Mike Williams and didn't work. So Washington did this twice, whereas the corner doesn't bite on the initial out and up double move, they ran a stop. So it's out and up with a stop. And McCoran snapped the corner off. Heineke completed it.

To Carter, there wasn't as much separation. And He just doesn't have the arm. So he was trying to get it to him and the corner was able to break on it. But watching them run that. And it was cool because, like you said, it just makes sense out of what they're doing, right? So it's a two-man concept out of max protection. So when you do that, faking a double move and trying to get something out of it makes sense. because you run double moves out of eight-man protection off play action.

So it's just like a nice wrinkle off something you would expect. And they just do a lot of that. I mean, it's not the craziest stuff in the world. The other thing that is very, very funny to me, this is not sustainable. Over the last four weeks, Taylor Heideke is completing 67% of his passes while pressured. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's totally sustainable. Are they all on third down, too?

Like, it's been wild. I mean, that kind of stuff, it's going to come back to her. Taylor Heineke is not going to be the most efficient quarterback in the league moving forward. There is a chance that they are going to be a below average team overall over the next six weeks, and the Vikings are going to catch them and make the playoffs because the Vikings are better than Washington is. But the fact that they've been able to get these sorts of returns from their offense, even for a short period of time, is incredibly impressive. We see other teams that have dealt with quarterback injuries, injuries elsewhere. I mean, having who knows as your number two receiver outside of McCorrent and the wheels fall off.

And they have not fallen off for this team. Yeah. And that's funny that I'm glad you brought up the sit wheel route. So I've been places we call that a chair route because it's not a wheel. You sit in a wheelchair. Ah. And you sit down on it. Yeah, we're so smart.

I see it called a squirrel route? Yep. That's a squirrel route as well. Yeah. Yeah. So I know you said scroll route. I was like, yeah. I'm like, yeah, there we go.

No, no, I with Hyeneke as much as we, we gush about him, we love him. He's the always important difference between fun and good. And that's what you always have to remember watching him. He does a lot of fun stuff. And he maxes out what he is. But you see the limitations crop up. But he, once in a while, go make a play for you. I mean, against the bucks.

Of course, when I bet against him, I'm just going to keep referring to that because I still can't believe it. He's just going a monster on third down. And he's making guys miss and making plays. And it's like, okay. And when you have an offense that, like I said, it's a patchwork offense as far as personnel. That's what you need. You just need guys making plays for you.

If random dudes just making plays for you. But they're lining up guys, we're going to talk about an offense, even though I'm going to walk back a little bit on my chargers besmirching is that they line up their personnel. Everything makes sense. Like they ran the forverts out of empty and they had scary Terry as the underneath route. And so you love having him against a linebacker. They didn't have, you didn't go empty and have like their four. string receiver as the slot guy doing that because they're like, oh, we got to get vertical.

It's understanding your personnel and it's getting your good players and good positions. And it's like, it's good. You got to commend Scott Turner. Well, he ran the slice route off play action off a boot too. Yes. Where instead of having the tight end do that, they ran it to McCoran out of the slot. And it turns into an explosive play rather than an afterthought. Correct.

Just little stuff like that. It's an 18 yard game, seven to eight yard game. But those add up over a game. So, yeah, it's especially when you need to just squeeze everything you can out of those 18 yard games. I may be overreacting here. But I think that if you look at just the landscape of it all, right? Fitzpatrick's on a one-year deal.

He's going to be gone. I'm sad to have missed that entire experience with this team. It's kind of a bummer. But if you look at it and they end up making the playoffs, or even if they don't make the playoffs, they have the 13th pick in a draft with no quarterbacks. And they don't get a veteran or one doesn't come available. I think they could survive with another year of Taylor Heineckee,

quarterback. Just hold the forward. I think he's playing well enough where if you had to roll into 2022, it's not the most exciting thing in the world. I'm sure Washington fans are like, I don't know about this. I think he is settled in. I think that he looks confident. I think he's been more decisive with the ball. Fewer hospital balls to tarry over the middle. There are a couple. There are a couple every single game popped up. But the ball popped up about 30 yards off the screen on that interception. Oh my God. I appreciate his ambition with that throw to Logan Thomas. But at the same time. So I think, but I do think you could live with him for another year. If they have to go in with this, I do think you could get one more year out of it and have an average offense and say, all right, what are we going to be? Maybe that doesn't happen. I don't normally say that with a lot of quarterbacks, a lot of back quarterbacks, even with flashes of competence. I think they could survive with one more year of him as their starters. It's tolerable. It's like, it's like, it's like, it's taking some medicine, but you know it's good for you. It's like, okay, at least we're going to get right and we can evaluate everybody else, which is always important as well. That's the important thing.

And I think that they could absolutely do that. We'll see what happens and who's available. If they can't upgrade, they absolutely should. But if there isn't a clear path to somebody like that, then I think that they can survive. Correct. All right. You mentioned it. Let's get to the Chargers.

Do you want to say you're sorry? I do. I do a little bit. I do want to say, I'm sorry, Joe Lombardi to the Chargers offense a little bit. I laid into you on Sunday night show. Robert gave me the floor and I lashed out. And I'm regretting it now. I am Irish Catholic.

I feel regret sometimes. This happens. But it's, but I really honestly watching, watching, rewatching that Broncos game and watching another game, watching the Vikings game, the concepts are fine.

They don't, they didn't lean into quick game as I thought they did. It was just the ball ended up underneath. They run good concepts. It's not all perfect, but it is, it was much better game plan and a much better, uh,

design for all these plays than I had, initially suspected when I looked at the spray chart and I watched the game taking peeks at it throughout the day. It's just one of those things where I just wish they leaned in stuff a little bit more. But having said that, it's not as bad as I initially thought after I was rewatching it on Sunday. And so, yes, I will say I'm sorry to Joe Lombardi. What do you think?

You look at it and it's kind of funny because they're second in offensive DVOA, which seems hard to believe because it does feel hard for them so often. often because there's so much underneath stuff, because of the lack of speed that they have. And just because of what their personnel looks like. So why do you think they've been able to kind of sustain some level of offensive efficiency, even if they can be frustrating to watch it? His name rhymes with Hustin Gerberg. But honestly, he is a phenom.

But it's another. And actually, it's kind of really funny. I tweeted this and making a joke and referring to Super Troopers is that it's funny watching Washington's concepts and watching the Chargers concepts because they are obviously Washington's going to be Norv Turner inspired. But Sean Payton is very North Turner inspired as well. And so is Joe Lombardi because he comes from that tree. So watching all these like deeper seven step dropback concepts that they run.

One of them, the Washington one is like cheeky and fun and seeing the formations of personnel and then like watching the Chargers run these concepts like cruel and tragic because it's like just like static and just very like like this. Give me an example. What's something that Washington. would dress up in a way that interests you and the chargers would do in a way that's a super sale that i just refer to having five strong chargers run it is a is a three by one formation and it's exactly how you design it day one install it's a three by one formation tight ends at the number three spot the number two receivers at number two the number one receiver is at number one the ex-receivers at the x spot

nobody is moving anywhere you know so it's it's they all run the sale concept and it just looks like sale and that's a good sound concept so that's what that's kind of like the talking about both sides of my mouth here is that it's a good play. They called it at the right time, but dress it up just a little bit. Maybe get a different guy running the sailor out. Get Keenan Allen in the slot running it. Instead of, you know, or get, uh, get guiding on the backside, get him out of the play. So at least get all the available options. Use your personnel maximize your personnel. Like they'll have a, their use of personnel can be still a little bit frustrating is they had one play. It was another third down. They had Keenan Allen as the chip guy. Like they went to an empty formation. They had him

chipping the D-N and then they had Guyton running the cop route, which is the corner stop route. And I was like, why? Like, have Guyton. I don't care if he's soft or whatever. If he's like, I don't know if he is or not. But it's like, have him do that and have my Pro Bowl receiver run the very important route on third log. That's where the frustration comes from, is that they could, they run these sound stuff that I have no qualms with, but they don't tweak it and dress it up where they can really help themselves and find those 2% advantages like we just talk about Washington does. I know that their offensive line prevents them from doing this, and that some of the

injuries they've had along the offensive line are a problem. There was a sequence in that game that I think speaks to some of the issues that they've been having and where this offense is, right? So it's third down. There was a little sit route, just like a little shallow route that Sterns broke up. It's just like, it's a four-yard throw from Justin Herbert that just drives me inside. And they got them to third down. On third down, they have three-by-one set with Williams on the backside.

Like they do very often where he is that true ex-frew. they throw a true back shoulder ball to him on third and long that was beautiful. Just a beautiful throw. He gets called for offensive pass interference. A weak call in my opinion. Maybe a make-up from the last one where he did push off, but I don't know. Whatever. It's called on a weak call of pass-interference.

So now it's third and super long. The response on third and super long is for Justin Herbert to throw a rocket shot to Keenan Allen up the right side line that he makes look as casual as you could possibly imagine. So gorgeous. I mean, just out of this world good. Later in this drive, they run a two-man play action concept. We get so upset about their inability to push the ball down. I'm glad to call this play. And now they're doing it, right?

It's like, okay, we're going to run an eight-man protection, and we're going to try to push the ball down field. On this play, 34, one of their backup running backs is in, and he whiffs on the block. Yep. Yes. If Echler is in there, who is a good pass protector, that is a wotted up play against a pressure from the slug. lot that they turned into a chunk.

And that's the problem with this team. It's just that on those plays, even when they're trying to get those, it's just one little thing that they can't get right. And it just seeps out this Justin Herbert superpower and it drives me crazy. It's the kryptonite. It's the, but that's the, they had two other play action. So I'm glad you brought that one up. Then you just reminded me the two other ones.

They had another one. And this is like we said, and it's all out of the same formation. You know, it's that it's all hip slot, Y, Y, way, wing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is the classic play action concept. Hello, North Turner. I'm telling you, these concepts are great because this is just Wisconsin's 2010 offense all over again with Scott Tolzin back there. That's an issue right there.

It's a Scott Tolzine offense, not a Justin Herbert offense. Hey, we don't besmirch Scott Tolzine on this show. We do not. No, he's a TAS All-Star just from vibes and friendship. But it's watching like, so they had another one where they ran to play action, slot. So you have both the receivers on the same side. So it was Keenan Allen split all the way out. I think Mike Williams was in slot, which makes sense.

They're in base personnel. Run the play action. They run like a blaze out with Keenan Allen. And the corner is, it was just bad luck. The corner kind of like was playing outside leverage. And so it was Derby. And so Keen and Allen runs the route right into him, catching them. But the problem was is the middle route that Mike Williams was on was going on the all the way opposite side of the field.

So rather than being a two-man concept that most of these play actions are where there's a high, low created, a split divide created. What they did was just created, it became a one and done read. And it was like, oof. And it actually might be the same one that like, I know it was a different one. But it was like, so it's you're limiting yourself as you're making a one and done read. So now it's hard. Oh, shoot, because he has to buy one of those. It's impossible.

It really is. Even for Justin Herbert to go all the way outside to the field boundary and then rally to the middle of the field to the opposite boundary where Mike Williams was running his route. It was like a deep over. That is impossible to do. And if the checkdown doesn't get. out, then you have no checkdown. Then it's Justin Herbert holding onto the ball. It's like, well, this isn't great. There's only one guy releasing on the route. Then you have other ones where

mistakes get compounded. Like, rewatching this game, you know, Trey McKitty, who's a rookie tight end. So it's a hard position. Trust me, especially for rookies. Tide end is you have to do a lot of things. You're basically playing three positions at once. They run the same play action, same formation, same everything. He's usually why you do that formation, why that's such a heavy play action concept is you're going to have a tight end blocking a D-end. So what's getting hip formation, but two tight ends next to each other so they can double team, a pass rusher. So poor guy, I'm trying to remember as a perumpf is the other tight end. I was calling peromph because it's an area near me.

But it's he's blocking the D-end and he's expecting inside help. Trey McKitty, the rookie is like, hey, you got him. See ya. It just starts running on a route. And so the D-N just works inside sex, Justin Herbert. And it was like, what are you guys doing? And it's that, like little mistakes like that get compounded. And it's like, man, it should just be a little easier.

They just make, like you said, it's the number two DVOA offense, but you're just wanting more. You just want more. And I get it. You don't have team speed. You got Trey McKinie rookie tied in having to do those key blocks. But it's like back up offensive line. There are reasons for this, right? Here's the comparison I would make about it.

When they get into third and long, the numbers are insane. Like their, their EPA per play on third down is the second highest in the league to Buffalo. And it's one of those things where we expect the Justin Herbert stuff to come back to Earth on third down. Maybe it just won't because he's such an alien and the way that they can play on third down. When they're in third and long, it's my favorite version of their offense to watch because the way they push the ball down the field.

If you look at the numbers. On third down against man coverage, he's averaging 0.69 EPA per play, which is about two and a half times as good as the efficiency numbers for every other quarterback in all situations. That would lead the league over all passes by two and a half times. that's how good they are against man coverage on third down. It's about five dropbacks a game. So it's fairly a small sample size.

His A-DOT is 9.7 on those plays. He's completing 70% of his passes in those situations. It's absolutely ridiculous. It's just stupid stuff. So when they're in that, it's the version of their offense I want to watch. It's almost like those years where all we wanted to see was the Seahawks play in two minute all of the time because that was the better version of their offense. that's what it feels like to me when it's third and 11 for the chargers.

I just wanted to be third and 11 all the time. I know that's not possible, but that's just the version of them that I enjoy watching the most. I agree. It's because they run all the traditional seven-step concepts that are awesome. And that's the Keenan Allen throw, the one you alluded to on a third and extra long, those scissors, which is, you know, sail without the flat. And so they had scissors. Sale is probably their best play or choice. H-choice is pretty awesome, too, with Eckler in there.

That's a really fun play as well. That's where the issue is, is they run like, five good concepts, but then they have no changeups off of it. Like, you don't see why cross getting run, which is bizarre to me because sale and why cross work off of each other. So you get these great concepts, but then it's like, add to it. Add some sprinkles, you know, or run that on second down and so third down. Please, please do it.

So yeah, but I know, it's like, once you get the third down, you're like, all right, here's the good shit. Here it comes. And then you get the first down and then they're, you know, running stick. All right, let's get to another controversial quarterback topic here. I want to investigate the Dolphins RPO machine that they're running, okay? If you look at it, over the past month, Tua is second in EPA per play to Taylor Heights. Right?

What was November, man? You look at these charts. And it's just a month, right? But he's completed 80% of his passes over their last two games. Their offense has been efficient, and they've been able to move the ball. and he's just sitting there playing point guard. Their offense is bizarre to watch. They're running RPO's on almost 20% of their dropbacks total.

And he's using play action on like 40% of his dropbacks, which is the highest rate in the week. It's unlike any other offense in the NFL, and they're getting some reasonable returns out of it. So how do we treat this, I think is my question. Do we say, Ben Solac did a great job writing about this on the ring or earlier this week. I already wanted to talk about this. So, Ben, if you're listening,

which you might be. I'm not stealing this from you. Anyway, I think the question here is that how much should we credit the dolphins for building this offense? Before the season, we were talking about this. What will the dolphins' offense look like? All RPAs, that's what I assumed it would be. Because they didn't have any other identity, and that's what it is.

So should we credit the dolphins for building an offense around Tua that is tailored to his strengths, or should we be concerned that the constraints of this offense are going to create a ceiling? for what this team can be with Tua at quarterback. Last year, Tua had a blowup game against the Cardinals, I think. We had a good game. And we were like, yeah, we talked about it a lot. Talked about it.

It was like, it was like, oh, yeah, there was a, oh, here we go. That's right. And the thing with Tua is he's a fast operator and quick operator, I should say. And but you're just, either word works, right? I don't know. But is wondering if that's a feature or a buck. Is that because, is that because that's what he does? or is that because like he really has no idea what's going on like you know just why you don't know

unless you know to and get to meet with himself this is also what happens when you draft a whole bunch of offense alignment and a tight end that can't block let's just negate them we just take him out of the equation entirely and just get the ball out quick and run r pos because that way we can at least give ourselves a fighting chance i bet you phil snow this last game sidebar was like i got out college i don't have to deal with the shit anymore yes because that's that is the thing right if you watch RPO's in the NFL. There are several versions of RPO football in the NFL. When you watch the Packers, the Packers run RPO's with bubbles.

That's what they do. It's an extension of their running game and they treat it as such. A lot of other teams will run RPO's with like a slant here and there. The bills have done that. They've created some explosive plays out of that. The dolphins are running RPO's that have layers to them where he can pick two different guys based on high lows. It's college level RPO's.

It's not just interim, like it's not RPO's one. where we're going to spring them in as a run game addition. It's literally RPO's as the baseline of your passing offense, which is weird to watch in the NFL. It really is. Yeah, like you said, they've run every version that you can think of. It's like they're on a stick version. They run slant, slant flat. They run like pistol formations where the tight ends releasing to the flat and they're running like, no, zone read.

And then he can hit the tight end in the flat or he can hit the receiver running the little corner route. Yes. It's, it is weird to watch. It absolutely is. And I know. And that's the issue too is that sometimes it creeps up is when you're running like in this happens with the chiefs a lot is when you run like the stick RPO and they don't have the tight ends evolved.

Do you lose that extra set of hands? Yes, technically you're controlling the defender with that route. But then there's no double teams created. So no one climbs to the second level. They'll run those like spread zones and there's a linebacker just sitting in the hole like, all right. Like you got nobody climbing up to me. So I'm just going to hang out and whack them.

And that's where the limitations come in. If everyone asks like, well, well, this works for them. Why don't they, why don't they, why don't other teams do? it these are the weaknesses of this is that you can limit yourselves in other ways and i'm sorry i know we're just focused on the offense and r pos but i couldn't stop watching brian burns and jalen waddle it's like that's all i ended up watching in this game was just brian burns jama wattle because it's just watching a highlight tapes for both of them but that's what helps is having a guy like waddle that can take a slant and take it to the house not take a slant get six yards where hey that's an

efficient play good for you that's the extra element that you know that they might have that other teams that maybe if they're trying to run an RPO and create some stuff is get to the good players and let them let them make us look smart. But the issues of this offense crops up because their baseline's RPO's, not just the stuff of the blocking, not just the formations and stuff is that when they get into a dropback set, a dropback type of play, the old lines, they're not good. They really aren't good. But also they're just not ready to pass protection stuff off. It's just not what they're living in. They're not comfortable with. And on top of it, the concepts they run are just a little, you can tell the players aren't

comfortable with them. They ran like a mesh concept where they had the both of the outside crossers coming from like the numbers. So like there, it's like as opposed to mesh being like where it's tight and the crossing happens right away, Portua is finishing his drop. He's hitching up twice and then the crossers are happening. It's like that. Well, you want that sort of timing when your offensive line is blocking really well. Very well.

Yeah, exactly. You really want seven step concepts where the guys are taking forever to get to the hole. and or to get to their spots. And that's where the limitations come is because they probably don't practice it a lot. So now it's like they don't have field. They don't have the details aren't there because they're focused on slants and flats and running RPO's. Like that's the detriment of doing an offense like this is that you're not able to work on those details on situations that really, really crop up a lot. Third down.

That's a dozen sometimes a game. And that's where you can see the limitations come in. And in, and in two is, I don't want the Dolphins fans jump down my throat. Tua is limited in a lot. He really is like Alex Smith with those first two years with the chiefs. Like, I mean, that's like what I'm watching with him. He's like lefty Alex Smith. It's a really interesting comparison.

It is. And it's. Yeah. And that's really what when the chief started kind of sprinkling some RPO's in the mid-2010s, that's, yeah, I know what it really feels like with this offense. And remember the lacquer receivers they had. They had a whole year where they didn't throw up. Yep. That's what it kind of feels like.

Just a worse version of that. And if you look at their stats, I did a little football reference. I did the two-year little thing. I'm so smart on football reference. I can do this now. And I compare the players and look at their per game numbers. It's actually scary how close it is with all their stats and stuff. But off of that, the limitations of Tua is he's not, the feature of the bug is he's not going to

a guy that pushes the ball. He wants the ball out quick. He understands his old line. And that's also just how he operates. He's a quick operator, but he wants the ball out quick. He just wants it out. And that's it. And what my playmakers plays.

And you see crop up where Jaylon Waddle is running a high corner. I tweeted it where Waddle is so. freaking fast. Could have been a shot play, but, you know, Tua double clutches it and then finds a checkdown underneath on a naked or, or it was a late delay. Also, the touchdown to Waddle. There's a great throw, great anticipation by Tua. And, you know, he's, he's throwing it before Waddle breaks.

But then you see his lack of arm strength crop up there. He doesn't, that ball is like, it has a little float on it. And the corner for the Panthers who I don't know, that's how not good he is. I'm not going to learn his name. That's, if you ever sense a theme is that he breaks on the. ball. Imagine a good corner. A good corner would have undercut it and picked it off. And it was a touchdown to waddle. So yes, the results ended up good. But that's where the limitations of an arm strength can come in. And that's why, you know, people want to jump down our throats for liking

Dante Coppiper and Josh Allen. But that's why arm strength matters is because when you anticipate well and push that ball, defenders can't break. And that's where that's, that crops up sometimes is when you have to really drive those throws in the red zone. Quarterback play is in so many ways problem solving. Yes. And arm strength strength solves a problem. That is when you are put in it,

we're talking about Justin Herbert, when you're put in a situation and Josh Allen, the fact that Josh Allen and Justin Herbert are one and two in EPA per play on third down is not an accident. Nope. Nope. Like the fact that they're solving problems in disadvantageous spots is because of the physical skills that they bring to the position.

How many different ways can you give me a bucket when everything is muddy and bad? And when things are perfect, and they can run RPO's on early downs consistently, and they're running this really weird ball control version of offense. It's fine. When it's third and eight, what are you going to give me? And that's the problem.

That's why when somebody says to us, I want to see a core. Why do you like quarterbacks with better physical attributes? Yeah, I do. Because I like athletes. It's like that's athletics, right? Don't you want bigger, faster,

stronger? Yeah, I think it's pretty self-explanatory. But yeah, and that's the thing. It's working for them. It absolutely is. The room for error.

The margin for error is just so much bigger. And I think that's the problem with this version of the Dolphins offense is that the margin for error is extremely small. And when they're pushed off their spot a little bit, and when the game is no longer in their control, what's going to happen. And when the situations are no longer in their control, I think that's important. The other fascinating part of this is that when you look at a team like the Colts, for example, right? Frank Wright came out this week and was talking about their run past splits and some of the decisions that they made. and it was fascinating. And I actually talked to him a little bit this week about that and just the choices they were making.

And you think about their RPO game versus their run game, it's a box count question, right? Like if the box count is advantageous, we're going to run. If it's not advantageous, we're going to throw it. And so their run game efficiency kind of ties into the use of RPO's. The Dolphins are one of the worst running teams in the league. Yeah. So it's just this weird disconnect between all the RPO's they run and the fact that they're a running game is absolute trash. It's an RPO where you're praying that it's PO that it's just like, please pass it.

Please don't run it. Don't hand it off. Please give us a bad box count. Please, please, please, please. Because like you said, and by the way, I didn't know people were so down on a freak right after his game on Sunday because I rewatched that game. I thought he called a brilliant game and designs and everything. And he ran the R.

They ran stick RPO. I would say about four or five times. The buck started playing it and they played it. They covered it well. Guess what? He got away from it. And they just went, oh, okay. And that's why Jonathan Taylor started picking up the run game.

It was because the RPO controlled them. And then they got to their. fastball, which is hand the ball off to Jonathan Taylor. It was like they're using it to keep the defense, you know, so they can't just hone in and swing on the fast. The word, the word he used to me consistently was dictated. And that's what he does. It is just a way to help you.

You're just keeping defenses off bounce. And that's what play calling is. It's keeping defense is guessing. You don't let them tee off on you. You make it always a rock paper scissors battle. And that's what you want to do as an offense. And that's, that's what maybe this limitation of this elephant's offense is, is you know it's rock. So can you tackle Jalen Waddle?

Then that's what it really comes down to. All right. Our last one here. I want to talk about just the ways that the Jaguars are failing Trevor Lawrence. And it's for this reason. I'm guilty of this. There are too often, too many times over the course of an NFL season where we'll get to week 13 and there are teams that are just off my board.

It's like pass. Like I just, there's two few minutes in the day for me to spend any more energy on you. We can't do that with the Jags. though. Because they have the number one overall pick and a guy that we talked about like a generational talent since the moment he stepped foot on campus at Clemson. And now he's in an offense that's borderline unwatchable with the team that's one of the worst in the league. And we need to kind of revisit this idea of what he was supposed to be, what he is now and what they might look like going forward. I'm going to let you dig into this because you've watched more Jaguars football for whatever reason. God help you, I don't know, than I have this year.

what are the frustrating elements of this Jags offense and how much of it can you separate from Trevor Lawrence still a little bit as a prospect more than a finished product? Yeah, it's usually not the thing that usually hurts rookie quarterbacks is a battle line. And then I mean, as you know, uh, really watching the Jags. Thanks, but yeah, no problem. Another, I've watched a lot of Bears offense too. Oh, man. I love watching these rookie quarterbacks on bad offense. This is a lot of fun.

Uh, but it's watching this Jags old line. They're fine. They're fine. They're about league average. They do some fine stuff. And this NFL or this Jaguar's offense with Beville and Schottenheimer as kind of the play designers. It's an NFL offense for better or worse. There's not, we talk about the chargers, maybe not having that window dressing, that design kind of tweaks that help themselves out.

But also it's the lack of receiving personnel. And I mean, it crops up every single play. And we think it's lack of separation, which is a huge issue. And it doesn't matter because Trevor Lawrence can throw. guys open, but it's also the lack of detail these guys have. And it's been really, really kind of frustrating and bewildering at times to watch because you have veterans like Marvin Jones making mistakes. And this is not me just theorizing. I can tell this stuff happens. You never see a dig route run at eight yards. You never see a certain routes run. Every route's short. Guys are

struggling to line up. You know, some part, someone's a problem. Like a guy like Wivinsky Chanel, he should be more of a super role player. And he's having to play like Z. and like get these real routes. And he's not a real route runner at this point in time. So he's not creating the separation. But like the lack of detail, not just like short routes, not guys lining up wrong, guys laying lack of spacing or anything like that.

Also the interception against the Falcons that came up in the red zone. Marvin Jones, he's a veteran. I mean, he's played for a while now. He's been in a bevel offense before as well. They're in a dot formation, ace formations, two tight ends on the other side of the offense aligned and the two receivers. They're in a close split.

both receivers. He's covering the tight end who's two yards away from him. And he'd also send the snap. The cadence is gone. Trevor Lawrence is starting to the cadence. He notices it right before the snap of the ball. He's trying to move off the ball right at the snap. He gives a little hand signal to the rep. That's what the defender flinches is because he's moving. Snap of the ball happens. Marvin Jones is like, oh shit. And then starts running his route. He is like short on his route because he's late. And so Trevor Lawrence is assuming he's like, man, I got pressed with Marvin Jones in the red zone and the safety's all the way on the opposite side. I'm going to throw this high corner to him.

The high corner wasn't even breaking because he was laid on the ball. So it's these issues that get compounded. And then poor Trevor is trying to make it right and throw a guy open. And he ends up throwing a pick. And it looks like everyone's like, oh, he thought he had a free play. Wow, what an idiot. But it was like, he didn't think he had a free play. Trust me.

It was Marvin Jones fucked it up. Oh, yeah, I can say it. We haven't said enough word yet. We're good. But everything and why I'm blaming more of the other guys, the teammates and maybe a little bit the personnel usage is because you watch the process of Trevor Lawrence, and it's already outstanding. Not outstanding for a rookie. Outstanding for an NFL quarterback. He handles all the pre-snap responsibilities. He's pointing. When the defense brings pressure,

he's glancing and look confirming pressure and able to whip his head back around and progress on three-man concepts. He's able to move in the pocket. It's not a, I just said the offense line for the Jaguars is fine. They still make mistakes. It's not a bunch of world beaters up there. There's a lack of sacks that happen because Trevor Lawrence is such a quick operator and also can make every type of throw possible. And also you just look at the, you're looking at his throws. And this is more anecdotal, but it's starting with really Trevor Lawrence, Washington College, but even stuff like on his pro day, his accuracy really is ridiculous because it's his ability to move and throw off platform as he's moving in the pocket and put these throws where we can throw a guy away from a

defender is outstanding. It really is. And I was honestly, a Jaguars podcast early this week for Jaguars fan podcast. And I said to him, it's like, the process is there. It's just that the results aren't there yet. And it's just the lack of help around him. And it's probably going to be a, who does that fall on? Well, the GMs, whoever drafted these guys and lack, they, I mean, they emphasize team speed, but they're also going to get LaQuan Treadwell trying to run go routes.

But also to help that out is, I put it on this. I would say it's, I would say 60% is personnel. It's always Jimmy's and Joe's. I mean, it is. We want to talk about coaches being gurus. It really comes down the talent level. But I would say the rest of that, so maybe 70% on that. I would say the rest of that is getting these guys in a proper spot, not having

Levinsky-Gernel run a deep dig, not having, you know, and I get it. Who else did they go to? You had a freaking. Jamal Agriber. I was going to say their best receiver this year has been Jamal Agnew. It was a converted quarter. It's a kick turn. Yeah.

And now Tavon Austin looked like their best receiver because the, the, the, the, the, the negative negativity of the Jaguars franchise hasn't like seeped into him yet. So he's still making plays for them. You know, so that hasn't cropped up. So I would say it's really, it's a lack of personnel. It really is.

But then it's a little bit on, hey, help help a brother out. Like help Trevor out, help this offense out and maybe design some stuff that's not very, NFL cookie cutter. I think is a good way to put it. Oh,

that was a rain. Well, plenty more time. Listen, you're allowed to rant. It's a frustrating situation. I think with this, It's a common conversation.

It's a common thing that we think about, talk about, concentrate on. How does it change? What does this off season look like? How does this get better? Because it's the most frustrating thing when you see a quarterback that you're really excited about and you see some process that you're really excited about. You see growth and just incremental steps that you're really excited about. But you don't have faith in whatever infrastructure is going to exist there

to support that quarterback, even with another offseason. And that's the problem is that We've gone back to it a million different times so far this year You just feel those places that are incubators for offensive development And the places that aren't. And when you have a guy like Trevor Lawrence that's in a place that decidedly isn't, it's frustrating. And you just don't know what the answer is.

It's like those guys are going to be back. They're not going to fire Urban Meyer after one year. I don't think. No matter how bad it's gone. So now it's like how does this get better? like just Travis E.TN and like whatever they draft in the first round next year. Like, who the hell knows? Like it just, I mean, it's for it.

It's tough. It's really, really tough. Hey, you know who was available when they took Travis Eton, even though they had James Robinson on the roster who's a great player. You know, Rashad Bateman, Elijah Moore, you know, Ron Dale Moore, you know, guys like that that could really, you know, team speed is an issue. And they emphasize team speed for whatever reason. And also they have the slowest roster in the NFL.

I mean, honestly. They see four birds on. They were in all-go, RBCM. Cool. All right, cool concept. No one was past eight yards when Trevor Lawrence hit the back of his drop. Those guys are supposed to be at 14 when they hit that drop, 14 to 16. That's the difference.

It's six yards short. It's not a yard short. It's not a half a foot short. It's six yards short. And that's the entire Jaguar's offense right now. Well, when you have a quarterback with a noodle arm, it's sometimes that's, you need to compress things. Yeah, you got check. Chad Payton back there, I guess. No, no, it's freaking Trevor Lawrence. He can push that ball. I know. Get him, get him in that Bruce Ariens offense. I want to see that. I want to see him run 99. I want to see him just launch that bitch. Listen, you can, listen, you could see the narrative right now. Byron left, which is returned to Jacksonville. Let's do it. Full circle, baby. All right. So I'm making authority decision right now. That's a moratorium on my Jaguars talk for like another two weeks. We checked that box. We did it. That's it.

No more Jacks talk for another two weeks. We're going to get to Jets Texans here in a second with Sheal. Speaking of that, let's get to this week's pick segment. All right. It's time now for this week's pick segment. Thrilled to welcome our buddy, Shil Kapata. Shielders, did you wrong for the second time this season. You get your lukewarm lock wrong.

You get two games right, only one game right on the week. So that gives you zero. Nate went two and one. Is a coward and did not pick a lukewarm lock. Correct. giving him two points, which brings the season total to Sheila 22 and a half, Nate at 19 and a half. This thing is getting slowly closer as we get to the home stretch here. Sheila, how are you feeling?

Nate's just going to let me sink myself, which I'm more than capable of doing. I'm mentally fragile in all aspects of my life. I feel like a broken man this week. I was doing my picks column yesterday, and I'm just second guessing every single one going shoot. I am a disaster right now. And so, yeah, last week was bad. I mean, I couldn't even get to halftime, really, with a chance of the Steelers covering that game.

So I don't know if that's better or worse to be just put out of your misery quickly. So I have to show you what a mess I am right now. I actually have five games written down on my screen. I don't know which three I'm going to pick. I don't know which one's going to be my lock, if I'm going to do a lock. So this will be good.

This will be a little improvisation for the podcast. Listen, we're just complete messes. over here on this show all the time. So I completely understand that. We had a good day yesterday. There were a lot of people tweeting us about that we were on their year on Spotify lists and people were listening to the show and that they loved it. And all day today, I was just convinced that the show was going to be terrible.

So don't worry. We're all in the same boat over here. It's just a consistent up and down with no consistency whatsoever. All right. So for the rest of the year, we're in a particular time of the calendar, right? Thanksgiving just happened. Christmas and the holidays are about a month away. We're making lock because this weekend.

to celebrate my fiance's Jewish heritage. It's that time of year, right? So for lukewarm lock punishments from now until, let's say Christmas, the punishment is going to be, this may sound complicated, but stick with me for a second. Whatever team you bet on, however many points they score during that game, let's say hypothetically it's 20 points, you have to donate triple the dollar amount to a charity of your choosing

as part of your punishment. It's the giving season. going to lean into the giving spirit and make these a little bit less mean and a little bit more generous as we get toward the holidays. Does that sound good to you guys? It does. It does. Does there have to, should there be any relation to the team?

Yes. Yes. Yes. So the my cause, my cleats thing. So the my cause, my cleats thing is happening right now. So you have to pick a Steelers associated charity or Bengals associated charity, one of the two teams that speaks to you, you will give to that.

If we get out of the my cause, my cleats time in the calendar and you just want to do something associated with that city. whether it's a hospital or a children's charity or whatever, that's what we're going to do. You can pick a players charity if you want. But yeah, in the spirit of that team or city, that's what we're going to focus on here. And I'm not going to be cheap like Nate was joking that.

I'm just going to pick the Steelers every week. And, you know, at the worst, I'm giving $9 to a charity. I'm not going to do that. I'm going to give more if you are a Steelers or Bengals fan and you know one of these players is really like doing great stuff with something. Definitely please tweet at me. I'm going to look at those after the show. we'll uh you know it'll actually make me feel better terrible picks degenerate segment here uh i can give

some of my money to a good cause so i i really like this idea i want to just do this every time i don't be dressing up as bellichick drinking campbell coffees let's uh let's just do this because i don't think the next six weeks are going to go good but we learned that the through the holidays it was a good lesson with that campbell coffee though that like that's part of the order now like i i it was a good lesson to be learned from that one stop betting on the lions and two i now have a new order when I need it on a Sunday. I need to pick me up or something like that. But no, this is a great cause.

I really do like this idea. I didn't, you guys just threw it at me right before the show. And I was like, oh, yeah, this is great. I really like what we're doing with it. But yeah,

might have to avoid lions and Steelers picks for a little bit, just so we can up the ante a little bit. But I've never been happy to lose a bad. Let's say there's a minimum. Let's say it's like 50 bucks. Yeah, is the minimum that you have to do. The big Ben rule.

Yes. Yes. Yes. The big Ben rule of charitable giving. All right. Nate. because you miraculously have beaten shield at least once, it is time for you to kick us off.

What is your first pick for week 13? Last week was great. I played a little small ball. Just hit a couple singles, bunted some guys over, got two points and we won. Small control. Just got to win the time of possession.

One two, nothing in a pitcher's duel. It was great last week. I think I did the math. I am 500 for this season. Doesn't matter what the points are. So I am back to 500. This is perfect.

This is what all my sporting interests. This is always cheered for with the Mariners and Timberwolts. Just get the 500. So I am in a comfortable place right now. But I, after saying all that, talk about small ball, Lou Pinella style. I am going with a pick of the week to start right off the bat. Luke warm lock right off the bat,

tilting up the shoulder, swinging for the fences here. Right now, I'm going to start with the bucks minus 10 and a half at Atlanta. And honestly, my angle here is the bucks or the bucks, even with the loss, or I'm sorry, the close game against the Colts. Yes, they got a little bit lucky with turnovers from the Colts and everything. The Colts are a very good team. It was at Indy. And the one weaknesses that we are seeing with the Bucks of some of their past coverage stuff isn't great. Palkins aren't really going to be threatening that. It's not a offensive system and an offensive personnel groupings

that can really threaten where the Bucks have a little bit of a weakness right now. And on the flip side, even with D.N.P. is trying to tear some things up and do some fun things. And even with AJ Terrell, honestly, we've talked about before, but AJ Terrell is playing at all pro level. right now. It's been really, really fun. He gets no help other than Grady Jarrett. But other than that, Falcons are the 32nd team in DVOA right now. Not the Jaguars, not the Jets. The Falcons are 32nd in DVOA. It's 10 and a half. I know it's a divisional tilt. I just think the Bucks are on the upswing. Yeah, they're not going to have a game like that where Brady is, you know, kind of nickel and dimeing like a little bit more than usually see. I mean, he pushed it a little bit. But that's why I'm

going with. I think the bucks are going to start rolling this last month of the season. And really the Falcons can't threaten them in a way that I think that you should get after this Bucks defense. The last time we saw the Falcons offense, they were unwatchable. That game against New England was unwatchable. It was one of the worst offense performances of the season. Their offensive front, their offensive line is playing as bad as pretty much any unit in the NFL. And now they're playing against the Bucks front. There's a weakness in the Bucks defense that's on the back end because of the injuries that they've had.

They're still figuring out even with Murphy Bunting back. they now have a safety suspended for three games along with Antonio Brown, which is the news never stops when it comes to him. Goodness gracious. 10 and a half. I mean, this is a game that easily could be a two touchdown game, a two touchdown spread. If you look at some of the monster spreads from earlier in the season, it feels like the Falcons are getting some undeserved respect here when a team like the Jags or other teams like you mentioned might not. Yes. Yes.

It's a especially, man, just looking at McGarry, the right tackle and he wears the black shoes. so that doesn't help. But it's like, man, he is short-armed and slow-footed. And it's like every pass play is like just hold onto your hat. Like that's what stinks. It's like if they're not going to be able to run the ball, they don't have enough team speed to really threaten them. And then like as far as passing the ball, it's like, you know,

Russell Gage, Frank Darby, you know, like it's not, you know, it's not really guys, I'm really going to go. Tagee Sharp. It's like a whole bunch of number fours and number fives. And it's like not really, not really an offense. That's like I'm going to keep me up at night as much as I love you, Matt Ryan. All right,

Shio, what's your first one? All right, I'm going to, I've gone to this method before where you do one night game, so at least the day goes terribly for you, but maybe you can still salvage it at night. I'm going to go to Broncos Chiefs Sunday night, right?

Yeah, this is the Sunday night game. The Broncos are nine and a half underdogs. I'm going to take Denver. I'm going to take the dogs here. I think this is a big line. You look at it, Denver's defense has played pretty well, two of the last three weeks.

I know the Eagles ran all over them, but still going up against the Cowboys and the Chargers, those are legit offenses. They played really well in those games. The Chief's defense has definitely been much better the last month, but I'm not sold that they're like some kind of juggernaut. And I feel like anytime the Chiefs have a good game, we're quick to be like, all right, the Chiefs are back.

They figured it out. I'm not sure they're all the way back. I mean, I still believe in them. They're going to be there certainly in the playoffs and in the Super Bowl mix, but I don't know that they've shown enough consideration. to be considered a juggernaut with a line this big against a team that's like mediocre and not terrible in the Broncos.

So really, I just thought it was a big number. I think Denver should be able to run the ball in this game. I think Fangio will certainly dare the chiefs to run the ball and try to avoid giving up some of those big plays. And so we'll see if it works out for me or not. If Chris Collinsworth is going, this Patrick Mahalwick. If he's pointing at stuff, all of a sudden and the chiefs are up like 35 nothing at halftime, Well, yes, that is a scenario that could play out. But I'm going to hope that that's not the case.

He'll make sure to say that Creed Humphry is the number one center, according to PFF audit. He'll make sure to throw that in there. At some point, at some point in the discussion, I'll get thrown in there. The Broncos defense is just so hard to figure out at this point. I mean, there are games where they look fantastic and then you look at it. They're 25th or 25th in defense of DVOA, but they're 28th invariance, which is not surprising at all. I mean, they've been all over the place. I mean, they've had great games. They've had poor games. So you look at the way they played the Chargers last week, which Nate, you and I got

into, and they played well. I mean, there's so many plays that are just snuffed out. And then games where they play Dallas really well. So, I mean, if they have one of those games where they bring it, then nine and a half is a lot of points. So I completely understand that. All right. Nate, what's your second one for us? I'm listening to what Shield just said to. And I'm going on the opposite end. I am the Chiefs. My one and a half. And I have it. This is going to be a blood back. And that's what I know.

But everything that she'll just said was exactly why I almost talked myself out of it. But honestly, really the one thing and this is going to be touted this entire week. Oh, man, it's Friday. So probably people have already heard it. Andy Reid coming off a by week, you know, 19 and 3. Oh, yeah. That's right. A whole lot of stuff when they come off a by week.

Wait until we see this first 15 plays. I've been on the receiving end while as an offensive coach. By the teams that I've been a part of have been on the receiving end of an Andy Reed first 15 coming out of the buy. And it is, it is hard. It is a lot of, a lot of stuff coming at you. A lot of like, he has been sitting there for the last 10 days, having some barbecue, getting this stuff ready. There's going to be, there's going to be some tweaks coming out of this by week.

And I think maybe the run game, which they have hinted at right before the buy, kind of more under center, getting more tight ends involved. We saw some Noah Gray in there, more Blake Bell in there, getting a little more under center play action. Okay, so they're adding that end. That was before the buy week. So I'm really curious what they throw at defenses in this last month of the season. Also, they're at home.

But everything you guys said about the Broncos is so true. I've now watched several of these games. I'm like, this defense is just tough. It's just, they do, they just, they just make it hard on you. It's a very smart unit. They run sound coverages. We all know, we've, Vanjo's defenses have been the story of the whole year, everybody trying to run their variations of it.

But the Broncos are also missing Rizner. They're missing, they're banged up on the offensive line a little bit. But so that's just, that's maybe a little thing that pushed me over the edge with the chiefs. But really, I'm betting that Andy Reid's going to be just throwing some, some screwballs, some jump, some split finger fast balls, maybe a knuckle ball in there. You know, just really throwing it at him. And then also the Patrick Mahomes brings the 102 mile hour fastball right up, right at your chin. So we'll see. By the way, Broncos defense.

Kenny Young is playing really well. I just want to give him a shout out. It's just like, I, yeah, he is playing very, very well. And it's a guy that I was like, who does this 41 just keep popping up? It's like, oh, that's Kenny Young. But yeah, he's playing very well. So shout out to Kenny Young. I'm just imagining Andy Reid, like, in the lab and just a time-lapse video, like a montage

from a movie and the pile of cheeseburger wrappers in his garbage can just starts growing and growing and growing. Like, that's the only way that you know the time is passing as he's just dialing shit up in his little cave. Yes, yes. To show you what a mess I am, there is a window on my screen right here that has the, you know, Andy Reid's biweek record. but just four and four against the spread me with the chief. So listen.

I try to look it up a little bit. Good teams win, great teams cover. So listen, they can go ahead and win by seven, eight, even nine. We'll give you nine, Andy. You don't need to lay it on at the end. Let's rest those guys. We've got a Super Bowl run coming. Maybe we'd get a little garbage.

Teddy Bridgewater to Jerry Judy, backdoor cover or something. I will take it any way I can get it. Mike, and the anxiety I'll feel now for this Sunday night game. Nate will have already hit the bucks. I'll be. So I could be trailing at the end of this week, right? I'm up by three. Yeah. Yeah. So I go, oh my God. Unbelievable. I don't even want to watch football anymore. It's going to be great. We're going to be prepping for a Sunday night show and I'll just be like, sorry, sorry, Robert. I can't, I don't have any

notes ready. I've just, uh, I got to, I got to watch this. There's a lot of, a lot of stakes on this. All right. Shia, what's your second one? I can't believe I'm doing this. I mean, this is like a sickness, this next pick that I have. It's just like, pull me away. from this freaking team. Don't let me do it. But I'm doing it. I'm taking the Steelers plus four and a half at home against the Ravens. I'm not going to sell you on anything.

It's Pittsburgh Steelers team. I do not like anything about this team. T.J. Watts's not going to play. Their offense is a disaster. I mean, they're 27th in defensive DVOA, like the stuff they usually hang their hat on. They're not even doing here. This is more about the Ravens maybe being a,

little bit overvalue. You know, the top seat and the AFC, they've won six games by one score. They're just squeaking by in all these games. And so I'm going to go ahead and trust like the old school data, the analytics people telling me that these one score games are often random and luck dictated. And they're not blowing teams out. I mean, they threw four interceptions last week and still win. That hadn't happened the previous 54 times that a quarterback had thrown four interceptions their team had lost they broke that streak so uh they're very lucky so i guess it's good to you know smart move she'll go up against the team that's just been like the you know all the bounces are going their way this year so i i mean i still like the ravens i just don't think they're as good as

maybe you know they're their seating and their record would indicate so ugly this up mike tomlin take it out on them i mean you got to reach into the bag of tricks my friend you've done it before you've done it with duck hodges and the mason rudolphs of the world you can put this is a division game, a hated rival. You're at home. Come on. Your season's not over quite yet. You're not playing music. You know, I loved his quote this week about playing music and practices. I mean, he seems, you know, I love every time he has a press conference. So listen, this isn't going to go well. I mean, like I said, I'll make a vow here. If I lose this one, I am like pulling it away from, I'm not allowed to pick the Steelers in this segment the rest of the team. You know you don't have to now,

right? I know. Listen. I look. looked at it. It was calling to me. I'm trying not to just, I'm going, Mike Tomlin as an underdog. Come on. It's come through before, not every time,

but it's come through for me. It's week 13. Lucky number 13, man. That's what you're going to. Hey, but just maybe get a little black cat magic going on for you. Shil, are you okay?

No, absolutely. Are you doing all right? This is one of those things where as a friend, I feel the need to step in. I've, on Sunday show,

Nate said that Ben was on his no fly list now. I want to put the Steelers on your no-fly list. I'm done betting any AFC North battle ever again. I'm like, I'm done betting. I'm like those four teams are just blah. Like anytime betting angle, I'm off the AFC North. I know. Black and blue.

It's the new black and blue division. That's because it's punching me and shield in the eye. All right. Nate, what's your last one? Last one. If you haven't noticed, I've had two big spreads already. I got 10 and a half and nine and a half. And let's just keep it going.

Let's go with the rain. Rams minus 13 hosting the Jaguars. I am going with the Rams are going to have a get right game. I, that's what I'm and also just, have we watched the Jaguars play? But the weakness of the France right now is that they're non-Rams you guys can't cover. It's kind of what we talked about a little bit with the box. But and also their linebacker number 51. I refuse to learn his name.

He's awful. Shouldn't be on the field. And the Jags don't really have an offense. I can take advantage of that as much as I like Trevor Lawrence. That was me and I know I'm sorry. But watch that game against the Packers. The season has just beaten you guys down. I've got so much and me.

I mean, I'm not even betting on these games and I feel that way. I went through Thanksgiving and I was like, it's such a great mood this past week. I just got sour for some reason. I'm just, I'm done with this. I'm done trying to be nice to these guys. It's like,

but the Jags can't really take advantage of that. We alluded to it a little bit, Robert, when we talked about the Jaguars, but it can't really threaten much with this Jaguar against this Rams defense. and also, you know, the Jaguar's offense line is actually okay, but the receiving weapons are just garbage. And it's just that's where they're at right now.

And on the flip side, I think this Rams offense, Stafford, they listen to the noise too. Like they do. As everyone wants to talk about ignoring the noise, but they're in L.A. They're going to hear the chirping. And these guys are proud players. They're a proud team. They're a team that has Super Bowl aspirations. I mean, they're pretty much all in on that.

So I think they're going to be very aware of the situation they're in. And I think they're going to blow the doors off and try to make a statement on the Jaguars. and it's at home. That's going to help a little bit too. You've got Jaguars going from the east coast to west coast. I know they'll probably travel on a Friday, but that's where I'm to go with. Rams minus 13.

I've already said it up about the Jaguars on this podcast. Yeah. I'm done. It's the best to be on the other side of the Jaguars, really. I mean, I don't know what the spread would need to be. I mean, I was making the joke like that, like what's the score that would cause Urban Meyer to just like leave the stadium at halftime and see if that Oklahoma job is like, like, I don't know,

35? Nothing. Is he just like, hey, you know, I'm going to head out. I'll be back guys, maybe just call his agent and see. Oh, there was tweets like, Arbor Meyer has no interest in the Oklahoma job. That came out so quick. It was like, did anyone ask?

Like, who was asking? Apparently, like, he has high stock still? Like, I know that would correct me up to knowing. Hey, Irvin has no interest guys. Hey, don't ask him about it. It's like, who did ask? Oh, gosh. So I'm being nice.

What's your last one? All right. So I'm looking at two games here. Which one am I going to go with? I also have to decide which one of these is going to be my lukewarm lock of the week. So let me pick my game first. I'll just tell you it's down to two. It's down to the Eagles minus six and a half at the Jets or the Vikings minus seven at the lions.

Those were the two I looked at. This 49er Seahawks spread. I mean, this isn't going to be my pick. But that is like a scary, right? I mean, the 49ers are only three and a half point favorites. I was sure you were going to pick this next because I feel like you've had luck with these where it's, I stay away. I'm scared because it's too obvious. You pick them and they hit.

hilarious, you said that. That's the one I threw out. You said you had five games. I had four games. That was the one I threw out. And I went with the Chiefs over that one. Those were the two else aside. But I was going to go 49ers minus three and a half.

And I threw it out. So yeah. Okay. I know. I thought, yeah, funny. You know what? I'll just, I'm going to go with the Eagles.

I'm going to go with the Eagles minus six and a half. I'm playing the hits from last week. I mean, this Jets team, it's kind of funny if you look at the splits when Zach Wilson has been, like, If you look at their overall offensive stats, they're more in the 20 to 25 range. If you isolate to just when Wilson has played, they're 31st in the NFL in EPA for playing. Man, that matches the eye test when you're watching them. I don't even see many of the flashes that you were hoping to see.

If you look at every quarterback performance this year, I did this exercise earlier, only one of Zach Wilson's this year has been just above average, just above the 50th percentile. So that offense had just been a match. That Tennessee game that still doesn't make any sense. Right, yeah. Yeah, I mean, his head is just spinning out there. Yeah, that's sick, Robert, really. I mean, pulling out the Jets Titans, like, I can't remember even what happened last week. You have a different type of sickness. Mine is bad. That I guess is for the good. But their defense has been a mess. I mean, 30 second. They're giving up over 30 points per game. I look at that Eagles game last week. They turn it over four times and they still had a chance to kind of win there at the. the end. So they had a lot of mistakes. Don't throw the football, really. If you want to just run it 65 times in this game, I mean, their offensive line is just crushing dudes, get Jalen Hertz involved. I'm a little worried. He's got a little bit of an ankle issue, but he played with that

in the second half last week. I'm counting on a week of rest and recovery that he's going to be okay. That Vikings line was at seven. So that half point, you know, if the Vikings line was six and a half, I think I would have gone with that. But I like the six and a half with the Eagles more than the seven so I'm going to go Eagles minus six and a half and then what do I want to make my lock here? I love it. Is it going to be my lock? I'm not locking against my homes. I can't lock the Steelers.

So I guess it's by default. Let's go. The game is threw and at the end. The game I threw it at the end. Of course, I'm very sure about this and feel very confident. That's why it's my lock of the week. Eagles minus six and a half is the lukewarm lock of the week. At least I know charities in Philadelphia.

I can give to Big Brothers in Philadelphia. you know i i already have that picked out so 50 dollars coming your way uh big brothers of southeastern pa perfect when we were in my i was in miami last week i watched games out at a place in winwoods first time i've watched football games in public this year because i had a friend in in town we went to do it and somebody asked for the texans jets game on like a tv just to the just out of you just out of my periphery and every like 10 minutes or so i just caught a glimpse of it i was like if is that game really happening like i know it technically is but in the real world. Like, is that game actually happening? How many people that are not invested in the Texans or

jets are spending more than 10 seconds watching that game unless they have money on it? And if they do have money on it, we need to have a discussion with them. Yeah. You got to have a rooting interest in every game sometimes where it's fantasy gambling. Yeah. Action, action, we want action. Again, if you have anyone fantasy oriented in that game, I am concerned. True. Your fantasy season no longer matters. You should just. Someone did the pregame like, hey, this is warmups. Like, look at the crowd. And it was like, there was nobody in Houston for that game either.

It was like, like we were saying that game actually happened. It's like if a tree fell down in the forest and there was no one there, like, you know, that actually happened. That's exactly what that game really felt like. It kept coming glimpses. Like, didn't, yeah, Zach Wilson had like the little shovel off the runoffback's butt. Like that happened. Yeah.

That was a fun play. I'll give them credit. It was. It had some entertainment value. It was a little better in the mountain west when you're playing New Mexico State when you do that stuff. You know, that that, there's some learning. of when you're a quarterback. You're jumping all up to the NFL.

All right. Well, this is just an absolute disaster. There's so much money guys in this segment. I don't know why. It's just mudslinging everywhere. I'm sorry. By week 13, we're done. We're just, we hit the playoffs.

The playoffs need to get here immediately. All right. Gentlemen, always fun to do this with you guys. We'll see just how terrible this all goes here over the next 72 hours. Appreciate all of you for sticking around through this nonsense and for listening. Please rate interview podcast on your podcast platform choice. I very much appreciate that. Please subscribe to The Athletic, Theathetic.com slash a football show.

We will be back on Sunday nights with me and Nate. Until then, enjoy your weekend. Talk to you guys soon. This was The Athletic Football Show.