The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Postmortems for Wild Card Round losers

Episode Date: January 13, 2026

Five teams saw their seasons come to an end on Saturday and Sunday of Wild Card weekend. Where do they all stand as they start to turn the page to 2026? Robert Mays and Derrik Klassen dig into the immediate future for the Panthers, Packers, Jaguars, Eagles and Chargers on this episode of The Athletic Football Show.Rundown (timestamps are approximate)4:24 Carolina Panthers19:48 Green Bay Packers33:25 Jacksonville Jaguars46:57 Philadelphia Eagles54:02 Los Angeles ChargersConnect with The Athletic Football ShowYT: https://www.youtube.com/@TAFootballShowPodcasts: https://podfollow.com/the-athletic-football-show/viewX: https://x.com/TA_FootballShowIG: https://www.instagram.com/tafootballshowTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@tafootballshowDiscord: http://discord.gg/theathleticfootballshowCall us: 847-448-0701Email us: [e-mail]: Robert MaysCo-Host: Derrik KlassenExecutive Producer: Michael BellerVideo Producer: Katy DuffyAudio Producer: Michael BellerSocial Producer: Scott KrinchFollow Robert on Bluesky: @robertmays.bsky.socialFollow Derrik on Bluesky: @qbklass.bsky.socialFollow Robert on X: @robertmaysFollow Derrik on X: @QBKlassTheme song: HauntedWritten by Dylan Slocum, Trevor Dietrich, Ruben Duarte, Kyle McAulay, and Meredith VanWoert / Performed by Spanish Love SongsCourtesy of Pure Noise / By arrangement with Bank Robber Music, LLC Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. Mention this on the recap shows this weekend, but we wanted to spend some time today just doing some half postmortems, half what comes next sets of questions for the teams that lost this weekend. So on this show,

we've got the five losers from the weekend, the Carolina Panthers, the Green Bay Packers, the Jacksonville Jaguars, the Philadelphia Eagles, and the Los Angeles Chargers. The loser of Monday's game, which we do not know yet because we're recording this about 4 o'clock on Monday,

we're going to tackle that team and that version of this conversation on that Monday night recap. And so that's why we did not hit the loser of the Monday night game among this group. But the other five teams, we tried to just hit on their biggest questions this off season, some of the resources that they're going to have, what sort of changes might be coming, really enjoyed this conversation with Derek Klesson. Let's get to it right now. We alluded to this on both recap shows that we did. this weekend. We're going to spend some time on Monday doing sort of post-mortems of sort,

but also just looking forward at what needs to change, what the priority should be like for all of the teams that lost to this weekend. Beller sent me some initial notes about the layout and some details about each team. And I was like, what order is this in? It's the order they were eliminated in. So that's what we're going to do today. We're going to go through all five teams that were eliminated from playoff contention this weekend and just chat about what their future might look like.

I'm pretty excited for this. I think when I went into this, I was, I think when you come out of the games, you assume whatever you're going to think about this team is going to be a little bit more complicated than it is. But then I kind of dug into a lot of these. And for the most part, other than maybe the last team we're going to talk about, I felt like what I kind of thought actually coming out of the game is about where I landed after doing a little bit more research, digging, trying to look forward.

So as you were starting this process about the Panthers, what was like the first thought that came to your mind? really cool story this team is still not good they are it's not a good roster they paid they paid to be better on defense and they were but this was still

the 22nd best defense in the league and they were by DVOA and they were 25th on offensive DVO and I think that that is a little bit skewed by like the offensive line being really banged up towards the second half of the year so they couldn't run the ball

I think quite the way that they had for the first half of the season where they actually were kind of giving it to teams but still this was I think we all knew how lucky it felt in the moment that they could escape with 8 and 9, not even winning their final game, still getting in. But I think when you're in the moment, you still try to play it up, like how nice of a team this actually was.

But then you look at it again, this was, they were by DVOA marginally better than the New York Giants. We think about those two teams extremely differently, but it's probably more reality that they are closer than we would think. Close is a good term because I think when I'm thinking about the Panthers from this season, it's really important to acknowledge the strides that they made, especially on the defensive side of them. I mean, that's where they really went from historically bad

to an acceptable level by the time we got to the end of the year. The number that I think puts the finest point on that. Last year, the Panthers were the only team in next-gen history with a run defense success rate on, with a run defense success rate of 50% or more. Since 2016, they're the only team with a lot of 50% rushing success rate or more. They allowed 3,000 rushing yards in 2024. for. They tied for the worst mark in the next gen in the next gen era at EPA per rush was like

0.12, which is a very good passing game, like very good, like top five passing game. This year, they go from a 50% rushing success rate allowed to 38.8, which was the seventh best mark in the league. They finished 23rd overall in defensive DVOA. There was still bottom 10 and EPA per dropback. We'll get to where some of the holes are with the team personnel wise, but they made significant strides on that side of the ball. I do think that the offense, when the full arsenal of players was there, you can talk yourself into what that can be moving forward. If you're trying to spin it optimistically,

because I have the exact same numbers. They were still 26th in EPA per dropback per next gen stats. They were 26th in passing DBOA. With Jalen Koker on the field, they were a league average passing game by EPA per dropback. And so that was in the back half of the season when the offensive line was banged up in the running game wasn't very good. So if you can have Koker,

McMillan Chitavian Sanders comes back you find some sort of like speed number three receiver if you feel like Legat's getting pushed out of the rotation or that's just what he becomes for you right? He's just a role player which is fine. You have the offensive line coming back with a couple question marks which we can talk about

and you feel like some of the flashes that you got from Bryce Young and high leverage moments and some of the big time throws he was able to make that's something that you can carry over. Is there a path for this being the 14th best offense in the league next year. I think if you're trying to spin it optimistically, like there is a world where that can all come together for you.

I think they can do that. They're just, that to me still feels like a really high-end outcome. And also, I think if they don't fix the offensive line and fix meaning like they're a couple of guys are pending free agents, Ikea Aquano is potentially not going to be healthy for next year. So they've got some things to answer on that side.

To me, the identity of the team and the settling part of the team is still when they can run the ball. Like it felt like they were their best games were when they could control the game. Like the Rams games, especially the first one, felt like kind of lucky in the sense that, again, you're betting on like these fourth down plays

where you're just chucking it up to the big guys. And that can work sometimes, but I think that just leaves you in a really volatile space with their passing game. So I think if they mostly go into next year with a lot of the same guys, and maybe the offensive line is five to 10% worse, even at their best because of, again,

some of the injuries, a couple of guys leaving. That to me just, it still feels like, even if you have a couple of those games that are really high, like the Falcons game or a couple of those Rams games, it just feels like there's still, to me, going to be a lot of the lows where you just straight up lose games because of the way that your offense plays at times.

That's what happened all the time this year. I mean, it was the most inconsistent offense in the league by pretty much every single measure. The offensive line composition is worth considering, like you said, Iki Aquano, we're going to say this multiple times on this show, has a torn Patel or tendon. It's a devastating injury for anybody,

but it's happening consistently with so many offensive linemen. If you look at some of the numbers behind it, only like 55% of guys who have seen that injury even come back from that injury. At all? Yes. Wow. And if you look at the actual historic medical data

associated with the injury, it's a devastating injury. And in terms of return to like performance level, which is a nebulous kind of way of framing him, but I think they did it by like PFF grade. This is like an actual like study that was done. It's like 35% of guys return to previous levels of performance within two years.

So it's a career-altering injury for a lot of players. There are some recent success stories. Josh Simmons is somebody who tore his Patel Orton a year ago. He came back, looked healthy, he was playing well for the Chiefs. And so there are guys who can come back from it pretty quickly, but it is an injury that can truly change the course of your career when you're a player who weighs 330 pounds

the way that Ikea Kuanu does. Exactly. That's the other thing is like these big guys, especially once they have some of the lower body injuries. Exactly. That can be really scary. I guess if you're trying to like paint the silver lining on the other end like Robert Hunt should be healthier next year so you have at least a

little bit of a push and pull there but again like Taylor Moten is getting a little bit older and like you've just got other guys on the interior that are potentially up for free agency like there's just going to be it's just going to be a different offensive line next year than it was this year center is the is the question because Cade Mays and Austin Corbett are both hitting free agency by the end of the season Cade Mays was he kind of won that job and I'm actually curious what his market's going to look like in free agency this year I think you can make an argument for trying to bring him back. They probably should.

I mean, he'll be, he'll be the best young center on the market. There are a couple of other guys. Linderbom. Yeah, I guess Linderbom is also like, specific. And that also, to me, I would be

shocked if the Ravens just don't find a way to make that work. I mean, if he's hitting free agency, he's going to have suitors. We'll get to a team a little bit later that I feel like could very much be in the market for a Tilerbom. And then left tackle and center are the questions there. Again, I think we'll see what happens with the receiving core.

But if Ligat just becomes your number three kind of vertical player, I think you can live that way. The tight end room has some pieces to it. Like Mitchell Evans was... They have three like quality players there. There's a decent collection of supporting cast pieces here. The Bryce Young of all of this, I'm at a spot where he has played well enough

that you just keep trying to chip away at getting the most you can with what he's giving you and trying to build the best roster you can around him. Early reports, after I think said earlier this week that they are going to pick up his fifth year option. It's going to be $27 million in 2020. That's a lot of money. But at the same time, the downside case, if he has a really nice season, a really nice lame duck season and then you're sitting there at the end of 2026, you're like, what are we going to do?

The franchise tag is likely going to be like $48 million in 2027. And so you're protecting yourself here and kind of giving yourself a two-year runway at the position. I still have my questions about what a Bryce Young offense and what the ceiling of a Bryce Young offense looks like. But I feel like he's played well enough or he definitively falls into like a you can win with him bucket if a lot of the other stuff going on around him is right. And I feel like that's kind of how the Panthers have to operate because I'm not sure they have a different solution at this point. I think I kind of agree with that and kind of don't. I think you can win with him in so far as being like your ceiling is like a 10 win team.

I think his feeling as that is just right. It's just significantly lower than like because in my mind the ideal win with quarterback is like a Baker Mayfield. But like his ceiling is significantly higher can like push you to like top five, seven offense. Yeah, yes. I don't think you're going to be a top five or seven. I said it before. I think you're shooting for being like the 14th best offense.

I think you can win with that sort of construction, but it's a very narrow path. Yeah. But I'm just not sure if you're the Panthers right now, where else you would seek out an option. And I think he played well enough that you just have to see what you can do with him next year. And that's the thing. If this was the 20-24 draft. class where there's like five or six guys that people are trying to sell themselves on and it's like we can shuffle around a little bit in the first shot and maybe we can go get a guy this just

doesn't seem like the class that you would even do that even if you wanted one team's pick yeah you have the 19th pick and there's like one and a half quarterback prospects that anybody likes like it's very unlikely that you would really get yourself in position to to get one of those guys and so I understand them picking up the fifth year option in terms of you probably weren't going to replace him this off season and then next off season like 27 million or whatever sounds like a lot of lot of money, but it's half of whatever the going rate is for a quarterback. So it's kind of whatever. It's really not as financially binding as it sounds.

I just, I think I'm still at a point where I would be, even though I get why they picked up the option to save themselves for this year and next year, I just would be shocked if they ever get to a point where they feel like they are going to extend him. I think that's probably right. Or extend him at like the market rate. Right. At like a market rate. And we don't see, I mean, any quarterback who is getting a contract with the team that

drafted them after the end of that rookie contract is getting 50 million. million dollars a year. They're not getting the Sam Darnell, Baker-Mayfield, $30 million. Yes, they're getting the $50 million up in that range. I'm really curious if a team does eventually sit there and say, we're giving you the mid-year quarterback contract. Like, that's what you deserve. That's the type of player

you are. It has not happened yet, but and this is two years down the road, we're going to have to have this conversation, but Bryce Young is the type of guy where maybe you could talk yourself into that. At the same time, though, if you're doing that with a quarterback in that situation, most of the time, the reason those quarterback contracts are handed out is because

teams have to give out those quarterback contracts because they don't have a pathway to someone else. And so I just think you see what happens, you see what you get out of Bryce Young in 2026 and then in the 27 off season, you evaluate your options. I think that's where the Panthers are right now. Yeah.

Just the state of the roster overall, and the reason that this team does not have a lot of like financial wiggle room. And they have like $29 million in cap space per over the cap, heading into 2026. They're going to carry over some cap space. they don't have a lot of like clear ways to save a ton of money against the cap either. There are four or five million dollar cuts here and there. But there aren't a lot of like, oh, we'll save 20 million if we move on from this guy.

And part of that is just because they've had to spend in free agency to overcome what their drafts have looked like over the last three years. The 2024 draft is already looking tough. Draft the Xavier Ligat in the first round, Jonathan Brooks in the second round, Trevin Wallace and the third round. None of those guys have really been contributors to what you've been as a team over the the last couple years. 2023 draft is just Bryce Young. The 22 draft is just Ikea Kwan. That's it.

So there just is not an underlying foundation of talent here, and that's why they had to go out and spend. And if you look at all the guys that are making, like, real money on this team, Trevin Merrick, Robert Hunt, Damien Lewis, Toshan Wharton, those guys will cost like $80 million against the cap this year combined. And then you've already given out extensions to Taylor Moten,

to Derek Brown, to J.C. Horn, the guys that are worth handing out money to, but this is not a cheap roster. Like they have spent a lot of the resources. So there aren't a lot of clear pathways to adding a bunch of talent and a bunch of different positions. If I had to kind of settle on what their needs are

and where I would seek out modest additions sometime this off season to round out, especially the defense. Off-ball linebacker, I think, is where you have to start. Christian Roseman is hitting is a free agent after this year, even if he wasn't. That's a position that I think you still have to upgrade. Trevin Wallace think is still a question.

Mark heading into his third year after being hurt for a good chunk of this season. I think you need another pass rusher. Scorton is, I think, on his way to being like a solid number two. Yes. Prince Lee, I think is a good situational number three pass rusher, a third round pick. I think that's probably what he is. You need to try to go out and find like a true difference maker on the edge at some point. Because even for his, I think, optimistic as we might be about those two guys.

And I really do like Nick Swarton. And obviously they have Derek Brown. this was still the worst pass rush in the league. Like them and the Niners who lost Nick Bosa and like three other guys, those two were equal pass rushes for most of this season. Yes. And a lot of their additions and body types are run stoppers. They went out and got Bobby Brown.

They have Derek Brown. They have Aitianne Robinson. Like that's they, whatever they wanted to be in that area, they accomplished that. But they still need more pass rush juice. And then I think the last position, I would say, they need a little bit more ranged athleticism on the back end.

Right. Nick Scott is playing a ton of snaps for this team. The way they use Trevin Merrig close to the line of scrimmage, I think just a safety that's going to cover some ground for you on the back end, that is worth seeking out if you're Carolina. And you don't want Trevin Merig to like be your band-aid solution to that. Be like, oh, we'll just pay Trevin Merig a little bit deeper and we'll play somebody else in the box. The closer he is to the box, to the action, he's been better.

That was true even at points when he was in Las Vegas, there were stretches where they played him too far at deep safety. And he was just kind of, you know, quiet. And then the closer he can get to the line of scrimmage and make a little bit of noise, he was really, really good this year doing that. They drafted Lathoran, Lansom in the fourth round this year. I think you go with a veteran for most of the year with Scott.

Is he somebody that can take over that job next season? That gives you an answer. Then the other just personal thing that's worth pointing out, the Mike Jackson contract looks awesome. Him making like $8 million against the cap considering how good he was for them this year. That contract looks really, really good in retrospect. Of all the signings they made, like Trevin-Maric,

you paid him what you. should for that safety and he I think made good on that. Mike Jackson is significantly like an incredible contract compared to all the guys that they handed out up front. The Mike Jackson contract looks awesome. He was about as good as a number two corner can be this year. He was awesome. It's always dangerous to think about things in this way, but with Carolina specifically, I think you just try to have incremental gains on both sides of the ball. Can you go from being the 22nd best offense and defense in the league to a top 15 offense and defense next year and just be competitive? to just be competitive in the NFC South.

I truly think that is a reasonable pathway and a reasonable outcome for next year's Panthers. I think that's on the table. I think you have to feel pretty good about what you've gotten from Canales and from the staff over the first couple of years. And the path that you're on, I think you just keep trying to tread the path that you're on.

And that's the thing. I think with the offense, even if I got a question about the quarterback, I can sell myself that just like another year of like, yeah, Tetaro and McMillan gets even a little bit better. They figure out how more they want to, use all these three tight ends. Those guys stay a little bit healthier.

I can, and Canal is just honing what he wants to do with the offense. I can get myself there on that. The defense, it's going to need to be like two pretty significant upgrades up front for me to start to feel good about it. Get to our next one here. The Green Bay Packers, obviously the biggest question has to be answered about the Packers. We've gotten some clarity on in the last 24 hours or so. Multiple reports that they're going to start working on an extension for Matwell-Flure.

I mean, that's the biggest question about the Matwell-Fluer part of this. It's different than some of the other coaching consideration. it's not just whether you want to move on from out Will Flores. He's going to be, his contract is up after the 2026 season. And so he needs a new contract extension. And I assume he's going to want a lot of money to be the head coach of the Green Bay Packers. I'm not surprised that they're starting that process because I think he should be the head coach of the Green Bay Packers. We've talked about this.

I also think he should. I just think optically it is going to look really funny when they give him like a pretty hefty extension after the worst loss of his Packers tenure probably. like that is going to look pretty funny. I spent a lot of time thinking about this on like Sunday morning and just the idea of whether they should move on from him, what that would look like. And where I land with this is I just don't know who these like magical coaches are

who people think are going to come in and give you better results than somebody like Matt LaFour has given you. He's missed the playoffs once. They've won like 10 plus games in a majority of those seasons. This is an incredibly frustrating loss. And I'm not trying to diminish that or dismiss that if you're a Packers fan and you're sitting here wanting some heads to roll. I can understand that.

But if you just take a step back and you think about what this has been in the last few years when they've pivoted to this version of the roster with Jordan Love and all the young pieces that they have, in 23, they, I think they're over under 23 was like eight and a half. They make the playoffs. They destroy the Cowboys in the Wild Card round. And then they give the Niners all they can. can stand on the road in the divisional round. It is a roaring success of a season.

The problem is they haven't really built on that and that we can discuss that. But that is a great first step with this version of the Packers, which I think is demonstrably different than the Aaron Rogers version of the Packers was. In 24, you, again, surpass your preseason over under.

You go on the road and lose to the eventual Super Bowl champions as five point underdogs as one of the youngest teams in the league. I think that's totally reasonable. This year, their over under was 10.5. They finished 9, 7, and 1. They didn't try in week 18 against the Vikings. If they beat the Vikings in week 18,

they would have had 10 and a half wins when you consider the tie. And they flame out in the playoffs and that's worth considering. But at the same time, I look at this, and I think that there probably should be some reflection and some change based on how this season ended. You do some stuff with the staff. You think about some of your situational processes that's if there's any serious

concern and contention about how Matt LaFleur operates it's to me is like he does sometimes play to not lose the game like obviously it's easy to say that coming off of the Bears game they just had where they're like trying to play pretty conservatively I thought in the second half to me it was the Dallas game the drive that they have at the end of that where they are playing for the tying field goal instead of trying to win the game that to me is insanity when you have a roster and a quarterback as good as it

Like you just, you should be a little bit more aggressive. And it does infuriate me at times that there are moments where it just feels like he doesn't want to put foot to the pedal. And even some of the timeout usage in this last game, I just think those are the elements of being a head coach that are important. But none of these head coaching candidates or prospects of the guys that you would hire are perfect. None of them have all of these things that all line up at the same time. I just don't think you're going to go out and find somebody that's giving you. when you think about the different ways that you can affect the game as a head coach, and I think Matt LaFleur affects the game as a play-calling offensive head coach in a meaningful way,

they are consistently getting an advantage on that side of the ball, and that's incredibly valuable. Whatever drawbacks he has with some of the situational stuff, I don't think offsets what you're getting in that way. So this idea that you're going to go out and get like a true head coach that's really going to be a difference maker in that way, what are the chances that if you add it all up in the aggregate, you're going to get the offensive advantage with that sort of coach.

Like those guys, your Vrables, your Harbaugh's, your Dan Campbell's, like those guys are great in some of the situational stuff in that CEO type role. But I think you see the downsides of that. Like you saw it with Dan Campbell this year having to change out coordinators. You've seen it with Vrable in the past when he hasn't had the right coordinator. You see it with Jim Harbaugh right now as he's about to fire his offensive coordinator. Even somebody like John Harbaugh,

the idea that like, well, what if we replaced Matt LaFleur with John Harbaugh? So you're going to replace your head coach because he's crashing out at the end of some of these games. And you're going to go hire John Harbaugh, who has had the exact same problem over the last couple years. With better rosters than a better quarterback. And I still like John Harbaugh, but you know what I'm saying. I just think that there are not these magical solutions. Like there isn't this perfect coaching candidate out there that is without question. And even if you're playing the percentages, going to give you a better chance to win with this roster than Matt LaFleur has considered.

You can also learn how to do that stuff. And there's a chance that he never does. Maybe this is just a blind spot for him forever. But both Sean McVeigh and Kyle Shanahan are significantly better in those areas than they were two years ago, three years ago. And we saw Sean McVeigh win a Super Bowl when he wasn't any good at that stuff. I want to say this. The flora when it comes to the feel of the game type of decisions and like the aggressiveness and all of that, that's a different conversation. That like going forward on Fort Down, if you look at it, if you look like Ben Baldwin's numbers,

no team went forward on Fort Down at a higher percentage in the situations where they should this year than the Green Bay Packers. So there is like situational decision making where he is doing some of the right things. So I just think that you should not overreact to how the season ends in this way

and cut bait with this staff and think that you're going to do better elsewhere because I just don't think you're going to. I think this is probably the best coach that you're going to get. And if you want to have some upgrades and Justice Skate has talked a lot about this where they don't really pay their coaches very much. And so the pool of money to pay

assistance isn't very high when they are promoting people like when Adam Stenevich is the offensive coordinator who's just promoted into that job from the offensive line coach. They just promoted someone else from within the staff to that offensive line coach job. And again, if you want to reevaluate how you're handling some of that stuff, I think those are the types of smaller changes that are maybe worth making rather than completely hitting the reset button with somebody who has been as successful as Matt Willfler. Right. And because then even if If you're looking at that from the Packers' organization perspective, some of the assistant coaching stuff and whatever,

that's not Matt Lafleur's fault. Like, you can say that maybe he should hire better people, but if the pool of money to do so is a little bit more pinch, it's harder for him to do that. Some of the personnel questions for next year, I think is kind of where my mind goes next. The defense after the Micah injury, they were 29th in EPA per dropback.

They were 30th in defensive success rate. Like, that defense without Micah Parsons was not good enough. And so I wonder what change is there, especially if Jeff Hathley gets hired. way to be a head coach. Like you're going to have to potentially handle that. And then some of the personnel stuff. Roshan Gary has a $28 million cap at next year.

I just don't think he's going to play on a $28 million cap. But he's not giving you that sort of impact. I think you probably need another interior defensive lineman, even though Devante Wyatt's coming back. Quay Walker is hitting free agency. And sadly, it does seem like they probably need an outside corner at some point. And the fact that they gave Nate Hobbs that contract. and now he's sitting there as not one of your top three corners with Bullard and the nickel,

but he's making $12 million next year. We talked about this right after the game. I think that the ways they spent their money and some of their resources this offseason and the fact that all of them look like, if not huge misses, then guys who are not actively contributing to making the team better, that's a tough place to be if you're the Packers. If you spend that much money and those are still your problem points, even if it's not necessarily like glaring red lights, that is a massive problem.

So, yeah, like them, I think the secondary, even though like the Nate Hobbs thing hurts and they're probably going to need to fix the outside corner a little bit, to me it really does come down to the defensive line. Because obviously, the way that they bled talent there over the course of the year was kind of insane. Obviously, you trade Kenny Clark, which getting Michael Parsons back for that, you would much rather have Michael Parsons. But you do lose a body on defensive tackle. You lose Devonsa Wyatt at some point this season. And then almost every guy behind Devonto Wyatt at some point was in and out of the lineup at this season. I mean, there were stretches where they were down to, like, delinement six at certain points in the season.

That wasn't necessarily the case in this last game, but they, I think, really need to fix their depth there. Because if they, if they can't defend the run, and part of what Halfley wants to do is be in some of this too high stuff and throw some of these funky pressures, well, if you're in second and four all the time, who gives it shit? You don't get to do any of that stuff.

Be curious what happens with Clay Walker. He's a free agent. He was playing well by the end of the season. The linebackers were one of the strengths of that defense when you're watching them by the end of the season. So if he's gone, then that's somebody that you potentially need to replace, which that's worth considering. Anything else about the Packers? Anything else about just what's on your mind as it relates to the end of this Green Bay Packer season

and what might need to be a little bit different next year? I'm actually fine if they move forward with like what the skill players are. Because again, they still don't have a superstar, but like they've got enough guys. Christian Watson played incredibly well. I totally agree with that. The offensive line needs help again. And I just, it is going to be hard to find where they get that. Obviously, don't have a first round pick.

I think your first pick is at 52 or something like that. You don't necessarily have a ton of money to throw around. And they're also in a weird spot where it's like they've spent so many resources there recently that I wonder if they just feel stuck like they have to move forward. Like you just drafted Jordan Morgan a couple of years ago. He's, he's been struggling for you. You just paid Aaron Banks who has been not like a disaster, but you probably would have wanted more for what you paid him.

And then Anthony Belton, I think, is a little bit all over the place and they're not sure what they're going to get from him. He was a rookie. I mean, he was playing a bunch of different positions. You can give him another time. Yeah. I think with that group specifically, if you're looking at where they've invested and who's potentially moving on,

Rashid Walker, their left tackle over the last couple years as a free agent. It seems to me like we might walk in the training camp next year with Jordan Morgan at left tackle, Aaron Banks at left guard, a question mark at center because I'm not sure they can bring Jenkins back at $24 million. And Sean Ryan, who played center for them after Jenkins got hurt, he's also a free agent, Anthony Belton at right guard,

Zach Tom at right tackle. We just talked about... That does not sound good. At this point... Yeah, exactly. That's the problem. At this point, that might have to be the group

that you're working with. And so, and we just talked about the Pateller Tendenton thing with Aquano. Zach Tom has a partially torn pateller tendon. And so who knows

how quickly he's going to be back. So that's definitely the group on offense where there's concern. The past catchers, Dobbs is a free agent. I think you're likely going to lose him

because unless you want to tag him, which is going to be a ton of money, he's going to get paid in free agency. It's funny that the position that was one of the wastelands in free agency over the last couple years was a receiver. And then this year, between him and Pierce, those are two of the most intriguing free agents of the entire class with the way that Dobbs was playing by the end of the season. But I think if you're rolling next year into the season with Watson and the way that he played this year, Golden, Jaden Reed, and Tucker Kraft, you're fine.

I think that's more than enough at receiver Because I do think even if Golden didn't really do Produce a ton this year I think you saw enough from him Where when you think about like complimentary skill sets with the other two guys I do think that's actually like a really solid trio To build around especially when you're gonna put craft back into the mix

He's talented man like I I would wager some of the issues they had with him Was just like a coach like Matt Lafleur I think sometimes with rookies can get a little bit Can just get a little bit hairy and I figure it was a lot of that And so hopefully with just a little bit more development going into next year, he is a guy who, again, maybe he's not the superstar you want when the Packers finally spend a first round pick at wide receiver.

But I do think that he'll be a nice piece of it. He was a 22nd pick in the draft. Yeah, it's not like they spent like the ninth pick on, you know, Jalen Waddler, whoever it was. All right, let's take our first quick break and then come back and talk a little bit about the Jacksonville Jaguars. I'm going to let you start us off here. I want to know where your offseason anxieties potentially lie or where your thoughts are right now as we sit in the end of the 2025 Jags season.

I think the word I come to is content. Like, I would have liked to see them go further because I do think that this was a good team and they were playing really, really well. But I'm fine with how, especially the second half of this year gone. And there's going to be a couple of questions to answer. But I said this to you after Wild Card Week, and I think before we went live on the show,

the Jaguars were the only team where I feel the only team who lost, so that we'll talk about today, where I feel pretty good about where they're going in 2026. and also did not embarrass themselves this weekend. Because, like, the Packers, I still feel fine about where they're going to be in 2026. They were embarrassing. The Eagles will probably be fine in 2026. They were embarrassing.

The Panthers were actually not embarrassing. I have a lot of questions about what they're going to be in 2020s. Even the Chargers, like, they'll probably be fine. They were embarrassing on the – the Jaguars were truly the only team where it was like, you played a good game. You had a good season. Josh Allen was on fucking fire for four quarters. And sometimes you just lose a game that way.

I don't necessarily disagree. I'm curious where your optimism lies and them being okay in 2026. So if you're trying to build me the case for why this team is going to be competitive again next year, where do you think that starts? The offensive line, or the offense, the offensive line is actually the one question I have. The offense in general, assuming they stay relatively healthy, like I think the continuity there with Cohen, Trevor Lawrence getting another year in the system, like they're keeping Jacoby Myers, Parker Washington will be back for next season.

he still has another year on his contract. You've got Brian Thomas Jr. who hopefully can get a little bit more comfortable in the offense and get back to what he was as a rookie going to the next year. Even if I've got some questions about what the offensive line was, I still think the continuity, the firepower on offense, I'm there.

The defense I have some more questions about it, and I think some of the numbers over the back half of last season or of this season were they were playing a lot of bad quarterbacks. I still like a lot of what they did schematically, and I think they tackle really well. The front, I think, is still really good. secondary, especially the corner's got some questions,

but part of my hope you'm there is like, Travis Hunter will be playing corner next year. I certainly hope so. Because here's the thing. Where you would play him in the offense would basically be Parker Washington snaps. I think at this stage, this sounds crazy. You cannot take Parker Washington off the field for Travis Hunter.

Like he's a dynamic player, but Parker Washington was really awesome for them. It would be crazy to take him off the field for him. I think part of this is just... And your biggest hole is corner. That's the reason is that obviously we know that receivers when you're looking at just the market in general. Receivers make a lot more than corners at this point. Receivers are more valuable positions in the way that we reward them in the NFL right now than corners are.

But if you look at the makeup of this roster, and even if, let's say you traded Brian Thomas Jr., they're very different players. They play very different roles within the offense. And so even if you want to do that, I'm not sure that's enough of a justification. That's not enough of a justification to move Travis Hunter back to receiver. So Buster Brown and Greg Newsom are both hitting free agency this off season. And so you have a need at corner and you just drafted a guy who is an incredibly talented corner.

So just sliding him in there at one of those outside corner spots and rolling with what you have a receiver, I think it makes total sense. Even if though, you are going to move Travis Hunter to corner, if I were another team, I'd call about Brian Thomas Jr. I would too. I don't know what the deal was this year. I think once they found a little bit of a role for him, I think that they'll be happy that he can be like their field stretching X,

but I would at least see what the deal was there and try to see if I could get an answer. I'd call the day after the season ends. Okay. Not that it really matters because they're not in the same division, but can you imagine Buffalo beating your ass and then in the off season, they're like, can we take your six four extra speeder who can fly? You can't let that affect your decision making. You got to do what's best for the team.

I'll be curious what that looks. looks like. I'm pretty sure I land on unless I'm blown away, it's worth having him on the team. Like that skill set and what he provides for you there, you need that within the offense. And that's the best version of that you're going to get. But I would at least call if I were another team because of just how strange this season went. I think the case for optimism is pretty much what you laid out. After the buy, they were 12th in offensive success rate and sixth in EPA per play. that team which Kobe Myers with Parker Washington

with Trevor Lawrence getting settled that offense looked really good on defense they were sixth in defensive success rate and third in EPA per play some of that is driven by the competition that they played in the corners you're not going to create 31 turnovers you're not going to have 31 takeaways next year most likely

so that's I think part of the pessimistic case if you wanted to spin it that way but I think there's a lot to work with here and I'm in the same boat you are I think the DB room and linebacker too because Devin Lloyd is hitting free agency. I think that's personnel-wise, the biggest consideration that this team has to address, especially on defense as we head into next year.

It will be like, Devin Lloyd played really well this year and he'll get paid by somebody. I think when you're a linebacker who's really only had like 12 good games for it, like I'm not that worried about them losing him. I think I have some amount of fate that they'll be able to replace him.

Ventrell Miller has actually given them a decent backup snaps. I don't know if he'll be the starter, but it doesn't worry me. much. And I also, I think there's an element that might be like, oh, well, Anthony Campanile might get hired away to be a head coach. He's great. I really think that he is.

I would be shocked if after just this one season, he gets hired away. Like, to only have done it once and not been like a dominant, dominant defense, it would be, like, kind of shocking that he already gets that kind of call. It'd be surprising. I mean, I feel like in this cycle where there's a lot of just defensive coaches, and it seems like kind of a strange year for coaching candidates, I don't necessarily know if I'd be shocked, but I do think it would be surprising if he got a job after one year.

In terms of resources for this team, it's an interesting team because it's not a typical year one explosion because they've spent a lot of money. They have negative $7 million in cap space as things currently stand. They've handed out a lot of substantial deals that will still be on the books in some capacity next year. Walker Little, Eric Armstead, Foyle-Lewikon, Josh Hines-Allen, Patrick McCarrie, Jordan Lewis.

They're eating $40 million in dead money. for the Tyson Campbell, Gabe Davis, and Darnoff Savage contracts. And so it's an expensive team for this to be like the first, for this to be their breakout season essentially. Like this idea that, oh, we can really build on this and this is kind of the first stage of it. The resources don't really align with that, especially when you consider they don't have a first round pick because the Travis Hunter trade, but they still have four top 100 picks because of the Isaac Tesla trade.

So they have two additional third round picks because of that deal. So they have four picks in the top 100. and then over the last few years, there is, like, compared to the Panthers especially, like the Panthers have these two or three draft classes that are just non-existent. The Jags made a lot of, like, second through fourth round picks over the last few years.

And even beyond that, like, Parker Washington was a sixth-round pick. Antonio Johnson was a mid-round, or day three pick. There is... Jerry and Jones was a third-round pick. There are, like, six to eight guys over the last few drafts that are contributing players to this team. even if they've spent a decent amount of money in free agency and it's an expensive roster

compared to Carolina, like I said, there isn't an underlying level of talent. There is kind of an underlying level of talent to this Jaguars team. Yeah. Like cost control talent. Right. So and again, like them, I really hope a lot of those picks go towards the offensive line because I do think part of the problem is one, finding offensive linemen, particularly

along the interior that you would want to sign in this cycle might be difficult. But they also spent a lot, I mean, not a lot, a lot. They were mid- mid-tier contract. but they spent on center and right guard last off season. And so to like dip back into the free agency pool would be hard, I think it would make more sense if like maybe that first third round pick is like an offensive lineman that you just hope wins a camp battle

and does something for you. I think that's right. It reminds me a little bit and I don't think they'll be as aggressive in some of the solutions the same way that this team was. It's what Washington did last year where they had Al Goretti and Andrew Wiley and those guys were like year one starters that were kind of like, stopgap players, that did not prevent them from using draft capital to try to get to upgrade at those spots.

And so they go out, they sign, they draft Josh Connolly in the first round while he gets bumped down a spot. Like if they did that with the left guard in the center this year, I don't think that would necessarily be surprising. McCarrie's making too much to justify that. He's making like 15 million. But the other interior spots, like, I don't think that's crazy at all. Look, I'm actually curious.

Yeah, Hainesie's making $8 million. against the cap next year. You can move on from that as a starter and not really have much of issue with that. If that's the depth piece for you, I think you can justify that as just like he's your swing guy. Again, that's kind of a similar range to what the Washington guys were making. The one that probably needs to be addressed in some way, Walker Little has a $15 million cap hit next year, and Colvan Landon beat him out as you're starting left tackle. And so I would not be surprised if they tried to move on from Little in some capacity.

They cannot cut him because they would actually lose cap space. he has $18 million in dead money, but if they traded him, they'd save about $7.5 million in space. And even if he got beat out by Van Land, and he has an $11 million-based salary for a team that needs a capable tackle somewhere and the rotation,

I think that's a call worth making potentially. Somebody would give you a very late-round draft pick to just, like, give you a shot at that and free up the money for you. Anything else? Anything else on your mind about this Jags team? the only other player that I don't think we really mentioned in terms of pending free agents is Travis Etyn.

Yes. I think they'll be fine if they just let him walk. I think he had a decent season, but I actually really liked what they got from a couple of their other backs as role players, Bachel Tutin and Le Quint Allen. And then I also just think that that's a position that for them and for like what ETN gave them, I think it would not be that difficult for them to replace him

either with some other cheap free agent running back or spend, you know, third, fourth round pick on a guy like that. and try to replace him. What is your confidence level that the 2026 Jags will be as good as the 2025 Jags were? Not that high because they're going to play a first

first place schedule. And I do think, again, some of the takeaways are going to go away. And like, I do think that it's more likely that they end up a team that is like, barring some sort of crazy move

that they make that gets some superstar in here, which I don't foresee, given that they don't have a first-arm pick to really wield. I imagine they'll probably be like a 9-10-win team, which is fine. not quite as exciting as it was this year. I think that's probably where I went to.

They lost like 10 total starts from the offensive line this year, which isn't nothing. They were banged up. It was like two games here, two games there. So they were relatively healthy there. They were six and three and one score games. They were plus 13 in the turnover margin. So there is a chance to take a slight step back. But I think there is justified reasons for optimism when it comes to what the most important

piece of the franchise now look like. You hope that if the offense is what it was for the last eight weeks, the whole year, that kind of washes away some of the other areas that you might regress. Yeah, I 100% agree. All right, we're going to take one more quick break and then come back and talk about our last two teams. The Philadelphia Eagles,

I feel like we don't have to spend a ton of time on this one because we did more of it on the recap show than we did with some of the other teams because to me it's just not that complicated. This is the simplest one to me when it comes to the off-season question questions that need to be answered about the Eagles. I don't know if you agree.

No, I'm pretty clear about what they need to do. Even some of the pending free agents is just like, I have a pretty good idea of who you should let walk and who you should try to keep in the building. Jalen Phillips, given what you traded for him and how insanely good he was for you when you got him, I think you absolutely have to keep him. The other role players on the defense,

like Reed Blankenship has been really nice for them. You can probably let him walk and replace him. N'Cobi Dean, I know he's really fun and like an awesome blitzer. You just draft a Jahad Campbell. You can probably just let Nacobi Dean walk. Like Fred Johnson, like I know he's been decent for them as like a swing tackle backup tackle, you're the Eagles. Like, you run an offensive line factory.

You can probably let him go. Like, I think a lot of the choices that they have to make here are pretty simple. Really, the only complicated one is like, there's clearly a riff between AJ Brown, the quarterback, all of that stuff going on. You just can't really move AJ Brown this year. They can actually do it fairly easily after this year. And it's not going to really kill them, but this offseason does make it pretty difficult. It's a $44 million dead cap hit if he's traded before June 1st.

And so you'd have to trade him after June 1st for it to be. be palatable financially. Whether that's what they want, they have the appetite for that and they feel like it's something they need to do, I can't speak to that. A.J. Brown is a really good player, and I think I'd rather just try to fix the ecosystem offensively before I traded A.J. Brown. Right now, they have four top 100 picks because they, I don't know, I'm curious where that one came from. They have a third round pick from the Jets, which is just one of my favorite things about the Eagles every single offseason is looking at the picks they have. I wonder where that one came from. Who did they steal that one from?

Let's look at this. I want to, I want to, find out the answer to it because I think it'd probably be a, it'd be fun to know. Oh, the Hassan Redick trade. Oh, my God. That's very Eagles to get that back. Reddick is on neither of those teams now, by the way. So because of the Hassan Redick trade, the Eagles have the 68th pick in the draft.

So it's not even just that it's a third round pick. It is the fourth pick. It is the fourth pick of the third round that the Eagles now have in the Hassan Redick trade, which is just wonderful. And they gave up the 87th pick in the Jalen Phillips trade. That's good business. That's real good business. That's,

they typically do a lot of this. And so that's the other thing that makes this not very complicated. It's like in terms of the money decisions that they have to make, you know where it's going to go in terms of like Jalen Phillips and where it's not going to go. I don't know if it's going to go to Jalen Phillips necessarily. I think I should. Right. I think he should be this year's version of what they did with Bond,

where maybe he wasn't in your plans originally, but he's played well enough within the defense that. that you could justify bringing him back. 100%. So like at least in my mind, that's where it would go. And then there are some of these other teams where the Jaguars, the draft gets complicated because you don't have a first round pick or whatever. The Eagles are going to have their first round pick and like you said,

three other top 100 picks. They have all the resources to be good again. Assuming they just get offensive coordinator back to a competent level, somebody who's done it before, this team, if they can fix the vibes a little bit and get A.J. Brown happy, this team will win. Like they'll walk to 11 wins next year. offensive coordinator is going to be the biggest question.

We know that. And my assumption is it'll be somebody who's called plays before, the exact same way they did it with Kellynne Moore. The name that I keep coming back to just because he's available in this cycle, he's showing an ability to do this before with a talented roster and with a talented quarterback specifically. They hire a guy like Brian Dable. You have Brian Dable and Vic Fangio heading into next year.

You have this roster back again. I just don't know how much more complicated it is than that. And it's funny. You actually posed this to me before the show. I recoiled hearing the name Brian Dable just because of how weird the last couple of years with the Giants have been. But we have seen him have success with this style of quarterback before. One, he literally did it in college with Jalen Hertz when they were at Alabama. And then I think just in terms of like overall physical skill set, you can make a good case that what both Daniel Jones and Jackson Dard are is like not that dissimilar from Jalen Hertz just in terms of some of the throws they like to make, physical ability, some of the rushing capabilities.

all that stuff. Like I, if Brian Dable can get them back to C plus play calling, which is really all that it takes, they'll probably be fine. I totally agree. We said it last night on the show. I just think it's about clearing a certain bar of competency. And I think Brian Dable clears that bar of competency.

And so trying to go out and get somebody like that, I don't think Siriani should lose his job. Like, but this cycle of go to the Super Bowl or crash out, go to the Super Bowl or crash out every single year is pretty maddened. if you were to root for this team. But I don't think it's frustrating enough for you to be considering that sort of change in this moment.

Yeah, again, you have to have two years in a row like that where it really starts to... And if they do have two years in a row, we will have that conversation. I think the Eagles will probably be ready to have that conversation if it doesn't come together next year. The personnel stuff, you mentioned this a little bit. Blankin'chips is a free agent,

so I think that's something you potentially may need to address. You have Makuba coming back from injury this year, but I'm not sure there's another guy in the same. safety pipeline on that team. I was going to roll in the next season when Sidney Brown is a starter, probably not, right? So that's an area that probably needs to be addressed. And then they need to do something to upgrade that other outside corner spot,

whether that's in the draft, whether that's in free agency. Like, that should be a priority this offseason. And then the other spot that I think is something they should consider when it comes to where they're spending their resources this year, it's probably time to start committing some like real draft sources to the resources to the offensive line again for in two spots. Like Lane's going to be 36.

in May. And he's been healthier in recent years, but I think it's worth protecting yourself there, like trying to figure out the heir apparent to him a tackle and giving yourself, like, a solid, talented option as your swing tackle. If they drafted a tackle in the first round next year, I don't think that would be shocking. No, I don't think that would be crazy at all. Like, this is a team that has consistently been like you plan a little bit ahead. Them in Dallas, I think, I've always done a really good job of even planning ahead at offensive line when they have to. If they spent a first round pick on it, again, because they're in the luxury of it would be nice if their first round pick played for them next year.

The roster is so good that they kind of can burn a red shirt year on like a first round tackle that you're trying to get ready behind Lane Johnson. Yeah, I don't think that's a misallocation of resources whatsoever. Or honestly, if they really wanted to just play playing at right guard this upcoming season, because I think if they replaced Tyler Steen this offseason, it wouldn't be that crazy. And that was the next thing I was going to say. Probably time to try to find another right guard. somewhere through the draft, like with a potential like a day two pick, like a second round pick

or third round pick, that spot and getting better at that spot and trying to reestablish like a truly dominant offensive line all the way across the board so you can hopefully get back to the way you were running the ball a couple years ago. I think that should be near the top of your priority list. Last one here, the Los Angeles Chargers. I think we have to start with what is kind of newsy, right? So after the game, Jim Harbaugh was asked about whether he thinks, Greg Roman should be the offensive coordinator,

whether that he should be back. And he essentially said in the moment, I don't have an answer to that right now. He wouldn't commit to it. And I feel like that was his answer to a lot of stuff afterwards. But if that's your response, when somebody asks you if your offensive coordinator is going to be back, seems like it's something that's worth paying attention to.

The answer is probably that he's gone. And ultimately this, I've seen people making his jokes about this, like on Blue Sky or whatever. Ultimately, every Harbaugh regime comes to a point where Greg Roman, you run out of road with what it could be. And I do think like the Greg Roman offense has a lot of issues. That was also compounded by how bad and banged up the offensive line was. But we've known and we've seen with his offenses that he, I think,

struggles to come up with answers when he's got like one hand tied behind his back. And I think that's ultimately where they landed in this playoff game where they got thoroughly outcoached in that game. Fidel. The New England Patriots. Who was on a backup defensive coordinator effectively. Like, Zach Kerr was not supposed to be their play caller coming into this year. the injuries are the injuries for the Chargers offensive line but the alignment

that they came into the season with that were healthy did not play well It was failed you, it was Milton Williams in the backfield all game against your starting guard The interior all season was a massive problem and I feel like if you watch that group their inability to pick up stuns some of the protection stuff

that is a talent, there are talent issues with the Chargers offensive line and when you're playing with second, third, forward string tackles you are going to notice that but you don't want to absolve of the coaching staff and just say, oh, the group was hurt. Like, it doesn't matter. It was not a well-orchestrated offense independent of the offensive line injuries.

And so if they think that we reached that point in the Harbaal life cycle, that it's time to move on and go somewhere else, I get that. And like, does Herbert get the same Todd Monkin type boosts that Lamar got? And I feel like if he does, I'll be curious to see what that version of the offense looks like. I really hope so, man. And we came, none of this is like revisionist history on our part. we came into this offseason being like, this interior is not good enough.

Like Zion Johnson, I think, has been really up and down for them for a lot of his career. And then Bradley Bozeman, I thought it was questionable for them to continue with him. And then they tried to like flip-flop those two in camp. They bring in Andre James for like extra help at the center spot. Like they were trying to shuffle around that interior.

Ultimately landed like where they were before and put in Bechton at Right Guard, who the Bechton one, it's like, okay, you get it. He's, you know, finally looked like he found a little bit of life in Philly, you're running a scheme that theoretically could fit some of his strengths, but then he just kind of flames out and doesn't really do anything for you. Like a lot of the bets that they made and a lot of what they were trying to do process-wise on the interior, just none of it came to fruition. I feel like this is one of those moments where, all right, you try to do it the cheap way,

no more half measures. Like you have $103 million in cap space this year. Is it worth just saying we're going to go out and get two new starters on the interior? Joe Walt's going to be back next season, right? Joe Al said today that his ankle injury was as like layered and multifaceted as it could have been. He said, I think the exact quote was everything that you could do to an ankle I did. But I think it's like a four to five month recovery process. He should be ready for the season.

Roshan Lisslater is yet another offensive tackle that's going to be coming back from that Torampettal injury. And we'll see what his return timeline looks like. But that happened in training camp. And so optimistically, maybe he's ready for the beginning of this season. So you have both your tackles back. I'm fine rolling with Beckton again as your right guard. Like you've committed to him. He signed a two-year deal.

That's what are you going to do? Yeah. If he's going to be your right guard next year, that's fine. Those two other spots, you have $103 million in cap space. This is the team where just throw some money at Tyler Linderbaum. Throw some money at David Edwards. Use that money to kind of leave no doubt about the talent level of your offensive line. Because if you can do that and if you can hire a staff or an offensive coordinator

that can give you a better protection plan and not consistently get picked on all year, You have a talent personnel solution up front. You have a schematic solution up front. I'm fine with the current collection of pass catchers. Like, I'm fine with that group. I'm not sure you need to go out and do anything drastic there. It would look better if the quarterback was not under siege every single snap. And I'm not sure anyone would ever put it in the top 10 pass catching groups in the league or anything.

But I think when Justin Herbert is your quarterback, it doesn't need to be that. It just needs to be fine and have a couple of guys who can play a couple of different roles. and just not have him killed in the pocket every now. If you want to draft another receiver in the second round, and because Keenan Allen's getting older, you're probably going to move on from him, and it's McConkey, Trey Harris, Quentin Johnson, and then you're adding a little bit of competition

to that group with Gadsden. That's fine to me. I think that is a reasonable offense personnel-wise, especially if you're going to swap out the offensive coordinator and start over systematically. So that's where I would use a decent chunk of the free agent money. The other spot that needs to be addressed just in terms of the roster,

the defensive front, so many of these guys are hitting free agents. agency. Kloomack is a free agent, Tire Tart is a free agent, DeShon Hand as a free agent, and O'Dafay-O-A as a free agent. So I would assume some of that money is potentially going to go to retaining a couple of

those guys. Taya Tart was awesome for them this year. And so I think you'd have a hard time replacing a guy like Tair Tart with a cheaper option or some sort of draft pick. OA was really good for them this year. He's a young player. So how they spend that money and who they choose to bring back,

I'll be really curious what that looks like. I will too because honestly I think all those guys play well like Sean Hand was actually pretty good for them I thought as a run defender this year obviously Tiretart was incredible. Clio Mack is not you know 2022 Clio Mac but he's still pretty damn good and was like a really really good run defender which

especially for the way you're trying to play defense I actually think is incredibly valuable so I do think the front needs to get fixed and then I would still they have the weirdest outside cornerback room in Oh that's the other spot I would like Camhart for what he is

if you could get somebody better, that would probably be great. Like Cam Hart is a depth piece, fine, but think you need to go out and really commit to that this year. It's exactly what I wrote in my notes in terms of what they might need to do at corner. That's pretty nails.

Like, if he has to play and there are certain matchups where he's great, as a 17-week starter, there are some games in some times where you're like, we wish we had somebody else out here. The offensive line and corner specifically are two positions where they were like,

all right, let's see if we can tinker and figure it out. It didn't work. okay, let's bring a little bit more of a hammer into this offseason and see if you can get some more expensive solutions there. I think that's totally fine. I actually will say to go back to the offensive a little bit quickly. Obviously, offensive line is the big thing they need to solve. I would like a little bit more help at tight end. I actually think if they could get guys who are stronger role players at that position.

Like this isn't a hit on Gadsden. I actually think he's a nice young player. But he is what he is. Right, exactly. He is what he is. He's a pass catcher. Exactly. I would like a little bit more of a full tight end room,

especially for the way that I think even when, they change the offensive coordinator, I assume multiple tight-end sets are still going to be part of the way they run this thing. It's the Jim Harbaugh team. Well, it's funny. We were talking about this during the game yesterday and how the Chargers have the stoutest group of skill position players in the league. Like the Tucker Fisk and Scott Matlock snaps that we get on that side of the ball.

Like, not sure we need that many more of those. Yeah. No, I think we're kind of done with that. Two other big questions for me, or just two other conversations as it relates to this team. What hurts even worse than bottoming out and potentially new new offensive coordinator is that it seems like there's a real chance

you're losing the coordinator of the unit that got you here. So far, Jesse Mentor has requested from at least three teams that I saw, the Titans, the Browns, and the Ravens for their head coaching job. And I feel like he is a very strong candidate to get one of those jobs.

He has done an exceptional, he's done an exceptional work over the last couple years. And I thought that he was really, really, really good this season. And so if you lose him, then you're having to replace what has been like probably a top five defensive coordinator over the last couple years. Steve Klingskales, who's their – Klingskale is their defensive backs coach.

He was, I think, Minter's co-defensive coordinator at Michigan. And so they do have somebody that they could probably promote into that job. But who knows? I mean, Jesse Mentor did such a good job over the last couple seasons that there's a very real chance that schematically you take a step back on defense. And that is the best thing about what your team has been over the last couple years. again, like we've talked about when you're changing defensive coordinator specifically, there's usually a one-year buffer period before you get to whatever your best self is going to be. And so even if they promote within, you're still trying to figure out the ins and outs of like,

okay, when do I call stuff? How do I layer some of my pressures and stuff like that? And so you have that element of it if they promote within. And then I do think Jim Harbaugh is obviously well connected enough. It's consistently hired really good coordinators that he could find somebody else. Like if, you know, the Titans, like if Dernard Wilson is on the market. like somebody like that, like they could totally find another answer,

but Jesse Mintor really outside of like a couple of the clear guys at the very top like Mike McDonald was as good as it gets as a defensive play caller. The last thing I feel like we should talk about before we move on with this team is just another just playoff disappointment from the quarterback. I don't want to ignore that. And I went back and I watched that game again this morning. And when you go back and you watch a game after having watched it in real time, often you come away with different.

opinions or conclusions. It's like, oh, actually going back and rewatching it, this is how I see it. I kind of feel the same way now that I did after watching it in real time. This idea that they were out-schemed, top to bottom on that side of the ball. The offensive line still didn't play well. They were probably

five to seven plays to be made by the quarterback in that game that he did not make. And he deserves to be criticized for that. Because if you're going to be one of the guys, you need to be able to transcend a lack of help on that side of the ball. I was way more disappointed in the way he played in this game

than in the game last year against the Texans in the playoffs. At least that game, he was like trying. That was a systemic collapse last year against the Texans. They got out-coached in this game. This was not a systemic collapse. He played way worse, in my opinion, in this game, than he did against the Texans last year. And that's extremely disappointing.

Like, if you're going to be one of the guys, you should be able to transcend what's happening around you more than he was able to yesterday. I 100% agree. And I will say, like, I don't think that there are many guys who could have transcended how bad it was. But it's not like he needed to transcend it and score 30 points. He needed to score. Yes, exactly. Like, that was the type of game that he was playing.

And he ultimately struggled to do that. Like, I, it's such a tricky conversation, too, because it's like, I think the biggest issues that Herber had in this game were, one, he was not seeing it well whenever he came off his first read in particular. and he was not accurate. Herbert's entire career will tell you those are not issues. But ultimately, you get to this game, you're pressured, I think I was looking this up. He was pressured like almost 57% of the time,

which is the highest pressure rated in the game over the last two years. But still, he's had moments this year where he could overcome that against better defenses like the Philadelphia Eagles. And in this game, he just, he kind of had nothing. And that's it. You're right in that it is a tricky conversation.

Because I can understand if you're somebody who is a Justin Herbert skeptic and you look at this game and be like, well, why does he keep playing his worst football in the playoffs? And I'm somebody that, and I've said this over and over and over again, like, I don't think how a quarterback season ends should discount everything that came before it. They shouldn't have been in the playoffs, if not for how well he played for a lot of the seasons. Yes. And so I don't think it should discount everything else that happened this season. But at the same time, like, if you are going to be one of the best quarterbacks in the league, you cannot consistently be having your worst performances in the playoffs and that's exactly what's been happening.

I wouldn't go as far as to say like the playoff bone in his body doesn't function. Like I just don't know if that's a thing. But if this continues to happen, then I don't know what other reasonable conclusion you can reach other than he just doesn't have it in these moments, which is not a place I typically go. But if you keep stacking these up, then I don't know where else you're going to be able to land. Right.

At a certain point, if it happens, if it ends up happening like six or seven times. And it's like, okay, this does start to become a problem. I'm still willing to, especially the last to explain them away to some degree, given how bad the offensive line was. But again, I'm just, I would have liked to have seen them play better than that game. Because there were some chances. It was a disappointing performance. And again, I come back to the same place I was at last night.

I think that he's almost overcompensated for their, my frustrations with Justin Herbert in the early parts of his career. And that's what's funny is that I think that there, The criticisms of what he was last night are very, very different than the criticisms of what he was early in his career. Early in his career, my frustrations with Justin Herbert, whereas he was like a risk-averse robot. He was like Derek Carr-ish. And so watching what he was last night, we need something in the middle of those two things. Like we need something where he is taking chances and he's trying to be the best player on the field.

But he's not doing that at the expense of making the right decisions. And that's what was happening last night where he's just going into hero mode so quickly that when there are opportunities to be made within structure, he's not making those opportunities. But that's so far removed from what his shortcomings were even like two years ago that I don't think this is some like continuation

of the problems that Justin Herbert's had in the past. It's been like a moving target as to what is negatively affecting him. And that's kind of the thing too, is like you just hope that him going so far outside of himself over the last two years, especially like as a scrambler and as a runner, you hope that that finds its middle ground somewhere.

You hope that it finds its level, especially. And I do think that there will be a higher chance that it does find his level if he's not getting killed every place. Yes. Like if the pass protection gets to 20th best in the league and he doesn't feel as frantic as he did in some of these moments, then maybe he does start to like settle to a point where, okay, I can take some of these shots where I need him,

some of these other times. I just don't have to do that. But it is frustrating that he's oscillated between these games and these letdowns where early in his career was not doing enough despite the talent to these moments where it's like, buddy, we need to like settle down a little bit. And you hope that a system,

a coordinator that instill, and pass protection, that instills a certain level of trust can get you to a place where you find that middle ground. And I'm not trying to make excuses. Like this is tough. This is a tough place to land if you're somebody that believes in him.

As someone who also believes in him, this is probably the most frustrating one of his losses that I've watched. Because even like, you know, we can say whatever we want about how he played in the second half of the loss against the Chargers. That is a defensive letdown. The Jaguars.

Yeah, against the Jaguars. That is a defensive letdown in that game. And then the Texans game is just like, you are flatly outgunned. You are not... Systemic failure. Yes, yes. Like, you were simply outgunned in that game.

The Patriots game, you can argue because the offensive line is so bad that it's a very difficult position to be in. But that's not like a world-beating Patriots seem. Like, they came out with a good game plan, but that is not like a world beating talent front that you just lost to. In my opinion of the three playoff losses, this is easily the one which he was most culpable for. Yes. And I think people would look at the, how many interceptions you throw against Texas last year. Yeah, and they would be like, that's a crazy thing to say.

To me, it's not even like, it's not close. Like, I'm way more frustrated and disappointed in the way he played last night than I am with the way he played in that Texas game last year. He wasn't putting throws anywhere near his receiver, let alone DB. is like the ball just wasn't even in the area to be picked off. The offense could not function against the Texans last year. They could function last night. They just didn't. And he deserves a chunk of the blame for that.

All right. That is all we've got for today. I think right now in your podcast feed, our recap from last night's game between the Texans and the Steelers should be available for you. So if you have not listened to that already, encourage you to go check that out. We'll be having a bunch more shows coming your way this week on the feed.

Building the Beast will be in its normal spot on Wednesday. I'll be back on Thursday recapping the latest coaching news. We had to do that again. I mean, there's no way that we could just bypass all of the coaching cycle stuff because so much stuff has happened since we did our initial check-in on Black Monday. Mike McDaniel was fired. John Harbaugh was fired. So Kevin Stefanski has interviewed for a bunch of these jobs.

John Harbaugh seems like he might be trending toward being the Giants coach. there's just a bunch of stuff that we're going to have to hit. And so that's going to be your way on Thursday. And then once again this week, we're going to be breaking our divisional preview into two separate shows, one for Saturday, one for Sunday. So a ton more coming your guys way over the next five days or so. For now, that's all we got. Appreciate you guys listening.

Talk to you very soon.