The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Potential landing spots for Odell Beckham Jr., spotlight on Cowboys coaching staff, can the Titans keep rolling & more with Lindsay Jones + a Green Bay Packers team visit with Matt Schneidman

Episode Date: November 11, 2021

Where will Odell Beckham Jr. land? Robert Mays and Lindsay Jones break down the best teams for the wide receiver. They also talk about the spotlight on Mike McCarthy and the Cowboys coaching staff, Russell Wilson’s return and the Titans’ dominant defense. Then, The Athletic’s Packers writer Matt Schneidman joins the show to talk about Aaron Rodgers’ status for Week 10 and Green Bay’s COVID-19 violations. They also discuss Jordan Love’s debut, David Bakhtiari’s activation and the surprising stars on defense. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Football Show. The Athletic Football Show is presented by State Farm, because like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Get a quote today. Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. Today is Thursday, November 11th. I'm Robert Mays. Great show for you guys today.

Our Packers writer from the Athletic Matt Schneidman is going to be joining us a little bit later to talk about a very eventful week in Wisconsin and all the things that have happened. It was great to get Matt's insight for some context about everything that's going on in Green Bay over the last few days. Before we do that, though, I am pleased to welcome the athletic zone, Lindsay Jones. Lindsay, how are you doing? I am great.

It has been a crazy week, and I actually saw those Packers a couple days ago in Kansas City. So, yeah, it's been a wild few weeks. There's a lot of news. A lot of news we're waiting on. It's, yeah, we're right in the thick of, like, the really fun time of the NFL season, I think. Obviously, there's Aaron Rogers news. We're going to talk about that with Matt later. But there's plenty of other news that we can chew on right now.

Now, and let's start with Odo Beckham Jr. Obviously, he was released earlier this week by the Browns. He was not claimed on waivers. So he is a free agent. He is free to sign with anyone. We are currently recording this at 459 p.m. Central Time, just so you guys know, I'm sure something will inevitably happen the moment we stopped recording this podcast, which is great.

But based on the world we currently live in, Odo Beckham is unsigned. there are reportedly many teams interested. Lindsay, which of the teams that you've heard mentioned in connection with him or which of the couple have kind of piqued your interest than most, which you've heard like, ooh, that sounds interesting. I like that one. Yeah, so the Packers are one of them. And we are going to talk to Matt Schneidman all about why the Packers are interested in

why he might be a really good fit there. But after watching their offense, and yes, their offense last week was quite different with Jordan Love and quarterback. I just would love to see them add another elite receiver. And when you just think of what that offense needs, it's really exciting to think about what Beckham could look like there. The other one to me is the Patriots because, look, for as much money as they spent in the offseason on other positions,

they didn't get like that receiving option that they... They spent money on receivers. They just didn't get that receiver option. Right. Yeah. I mean, it was what Nelson Aguilar. I mean, it was not like, Like, it wasn't Odell Beckham.

And I just think it could be really, really fun. This is an ascending team very much fits the profile of a guy that Bill Belichick would go out and get, would like to break in, kind of a mid-career veteran who needs a fresh start. You know, not quite the same as like when he's when they signed Antonio Brown, but not all that different. A guy who, you know, can be very, very productive and just hasn't been for whatever reason in his previous, previous spot. So the Patriots, I think to me, are really interesting. And, you know, I just think that would be a really fun fit and, you know, make the AFC, that AFC playoff race really interesting if he could go from Cleveland to New England. I think that makes sense from a football perspective and just what they need. This is a team that is in the playoff picture in the AFC.

I mean, they're playing well enough to be a factor in what has become an absurdly muddy conference. So I can understand that. I to me, the Green Bay thing is so intriguing just because how many times if we had this conversation over the last couple years where this team feels like it's close, who's that extra weapon going to be? Remember, it was Will Fuller last year. It was Will Fuller going to get traded there. Is he going to be somebody they can make a play for? Every draft over the last three or four years, when are they going to get another receiver? And the fact that they are interested, how interested, we'll see, because even if they are showing some interest,

Are they going to be as aggressive as some of these other teams might be? And that's my other question here. What sense do you have about what he might be looking for, what the report is? Is he going to get the minimum somewhere? I'm sure there are some financial details here about the way he was released about what he's owed with the Browns that may be a complicating factor a little bit. Yeah, because I think that's the other, just the other layer to this is being released was much more attractive to him than being claimed, obviously, because you always want to have the ability to choose your next team. And he has not gotten to do that before.

He has not been an unrestricted free agent at any point in his career. He got traded from the Giants to the Browns, signed an extension, a new contract with the Brown. So he hasn't really ever gotten to go out and, like, survey the market and figure out what quarterback do I want to play with? What does this look like? Obviously, doing it in mid-November is different than doing it in March. And I don't know for sure if he wants to go somewhere immediately right now where he'll

signed a long-term contract, where he will get some security where he'll be signed through 2022 and 2023 if he wants a longer-term deal, or if he's willing to go somewhere where he could sign for the minimum for this year and see what happens. Because some of these teams that he or that are interested in in him, they don't have as much financial flexibility as others. The Packers, for example, I mean, they're kind of in a position where they can offer him. Yeah, I mean, the Saints have like no flexibility, right? Where, you know, you could offer him kind of the minimum right now. Maybe you can structure it with some incentives.

Maybe you can tack on some voidable years. But there's not, some of these teams don't have a ton of flexibility. So, you know, it's really looking like, you know, there was going to report earlier this week that was like, oh, no, Beckham wants to go to a contender. Well, like, no crap, right? He doesn't want to go. Like, he gets cut midseason. He really wants to go to the Jags.

Like he has desperately just wants to go play that. Right. Like, obviously he wants to go somewhere where they're going to win games. So, you know, now we're kind of in it. It's almost like like, like, like, rough. like sorority rush where it's who is he interested in and who is interested in him in this complicated matching process of whose interests align the most. I still think the Packers might be the place where the interests on both sides align the most.

But, you know, look, there's the chiefs I think are in this. The Saints are probably in this. The Patriots. The Seahawks. So it's who really wants him. I would say the Saints need him the most. Of all the teams we're looking at, they have the biggest need at receiver. But if you're Old Elbeckham, the prospect of, I guess you're playing close to home,

which there are benefits to that. But the prospect of playing with Taysom Hill and or Trevor Simeon, playing with Tassum Simeon down there to me is not as attractive as potentially playing with Aaron Rogers and having a real chance to win a Super Bowl. Yeah, or Russell Wilson or Patrick Mahomes or even Mac Jones, you know, who's, you know, they're kind of a team that's ascending right now. And I wonder if there's a little bit of them that says, I could, if I signed with the Patriots this week, I can play the Browns on Sunday.

But he's got to get it moving. It's like the end of the day Wednesday if you want to get cleared and on the team. So yeah, I mean, I think all of those things are certainly a factor. And we're going to talk about the Chiefs a little bit later. But after watching the Chief's offense in person on Sunday at Arrowhead, they could really, they could really use a guy like O'Dell Beckup. They just need bodies and people who can get even a little bit of separation. So I think that's why they're still in the mix.

All right, let's change gears here a little bit. Something that came out last night and a story that is still developing, I think that's really important to mention, is what's happening with Dalvin Cook in Minneapolis. This is something that you have been keeping track of over the last 12 hours or so here. Just lay out what we learned about the Dalvin Cook situation last night and where things currently stand here on early Wednesday evening. Sure, and we're not going to get into a lot of like the speculation of what exactly has or hasn't happened.

I think if you've listened to our show for a long time, we try to stay away from that if we can. But basically the facts, as we know it right now, are that a civil lawsuit has been filed against Delvin Cook by a former girlfriend, alleging domestic violence from an incident from last fall. Included in that lawsuit are some text messages, some photographs that could be potentially evidence that an assault occurred. Delvin Cook, his lawyer, his agent, have all said that he is the victim here, that he was the one who was attacked. he has not filed any sort of counter suit or anything at this point. But right now it is kind of a very active developing situation where there are kind of allegations on both sides. No criminal investigation at this point, no criminal charges. And because of that, no change in his status. So he will be

playing Sunday against the Chargers. The league is going to investigate as they do kind of in any of these situations. But because this is all still kind of civil in a civil court right now, and mostly just like social media sniping at each other. The lawyers on both sides is really, really ugly. It's a lot of muddying the waters last night. Yeah. And throughout today as well. Yes.

You know, and part of that is, you know, there's a whole journalism aspect to this and how the story was initially reported from ESPN and then the Star Tribune and all of that stuff that followed. It's very, very messy. But I think, you know, from a football standpoint and a league and Viking standpoint right now is he's playing. They're investigating it. He did his media availability today.

He did, which, you know, from a, look, I'm the president of the pro football writers of America. I talk a lot about access and wanting to be able to hear from guys. I mean, I guess good for him for kind of getting up and addressing it now and not letting it linger. You know, he probably got the advice from the Vikings PR team that said, look, you're either going to get asked about this and can address it now and say, I can't talk about it on Wednesday or it's going to linger, it's going to fester, and you're going to get

asked about it on Sunday or you're going to get asked about it next week. Meet it head on. Do it now. you know, he couldn't say anything. He basically said, you know, the truth will come out and I'm going to let my lawyers handle all of this. I think it's far from over where there's going to be further developments in this case. But we will keep you posted. Chad Graff, our Vikings beat reporter in Minneapolis has been following this really closely. He obtained all of the documents. You can read his full story. It is online now at the athletic that has kind of everything that's out there from both sides. But yeah, it's complicated. It's messy. But, It's kind of where we are. And that's the way we're going to approach this. I think, you know, patience, sit back, see how it all kind of develops, and we will address this and update it as warranted.

Okay? Let's move on now to the stuff we normally try to hit on the third stage show. Our fun stuff. Let's go. All right. Let's start with who has the most at stake in week 10 in the NFL this season. There are a lot of candidates. After a bizarre week nine, there are a lot of different ways.

that we could go with this. Why don't you kick us off? All right. So I'm going to go with the Cowboys coaching staff, specifically Mike McCarthy, but kind of his entire staff, because we know he delegates a lot to his assistance, Kellan Moore and Dan Quinn.

But look, Vic Fangio kind of put a clown suit on the Cowboys and their coaching staff and their game plan last week against the Broncos. When, you know, the Broncos really, look, it was Vic Fangio's probably best job of his head coaching career. I heard somebody, I believe, was on sports talk radio in Denver the other day when I was driving around saying that it was the Broncos signature win since Super Bowl 50, which is one probably correct and also very depressing, I think, a state of kind of where that franchise is. But unquestionably, Vic Fangio coached the hell out of that game and made the Cowboys look really,

really bad, really, really foolish. The game plan that they had was bad. They had no adjustments. And look, the Broncos executed it flawlessly their players did. So that's certainly a credit to them. But so right now, I mean, huge spotlight on Mike McCarthy, Kellynne Moore and Dan Quinn and how they adjust, how they, what they do after the way that they got beat. And, you know, Fangio kind of beat his chest a little bit. They've talked about how this is maybe the blueprint now for beating the Cowboys. I'm not sure if that's completely true. I don't know if now everybody else in the league can say, aha.

That's it. We run a lot of these, the cover one match and all this kind of stuff that Tedwin at the athletic got really, he did a really excellent film right down. Fantastic piece if you guys have not read it. I mean, worth the price of your subscription on its own. Yeah,

I mean, he literally broke down one play and I felt like I, you know, had taken a PhD level class and, you know, defensive game planning. So really, really smart piece there.

So read that. But so I, you know, I don't know if it's as easy as like, okay, we just do exactly what the Broncos did. But, you know,

that was a bad loss. I mean, that game was third. to nothing in the fourth quarter. I mean, just a stunning score on an afternoon where there were a lot of really surprising things that happened. So, you know, I'm putting the spotlight squarely on Mike McCarthy and what he and his staff have planned this week when they're going to play the Falcons.

Look, Dan Quinn's old team, that's going to be probably pretty emotional for him, a lot of pressure for, you know, him just kind of playing his old guys. And the Falcons, you know, I think while a lot of us maybe stopped paying intricate attention to the Falcons just based on how their early season results were. They've actually been playing pretty well. Matt Ryan especially. They're such a weird team. I genuinely enjoy them, but they are so bizarre.

And Matt Ryan was so good on Sunday. This is a game that if you had told me a month ago, that I would be intrigued by all these aspects of this game. I'd be like, okay, sounds good. Yeah, I'm sure I'll want to check into that Falcons team with the way they're playing right now. But I cannot wait to watch how this happens because this weird falcons. Falcons offense is worth watching. I think you're spot on with the questions about the Cowboys defense.

I don't know if this Falcons team is the right unit to take advantage of whatever blueprint the Broncos put on tape last week. But this is a league of adjustments. The question is when somebody presents a plan that is well suited to slowing you down, how do you pivot? What is your next step from there? If you're going to play a bunch of man, you're going to run a bunch of crossing routes, and they're passing it off the robbers and you're throwing interceptions, do you have an answer for that? And I think that when you have an offense like the Cowboys or even like the Rams who are rolling

and just like, all right, we're going to run our shit. And if we're dictating the game to you, then we know that we're going to have an advantage. And then you run into something and you hit a wall. It's like, okay, now what? Now how do we pivot from here? And I think that it's a question we're going to ask about a lot of teams this week. And it's a really interesting question as it relates to the Cowboys right now. Can we just remember to you that the last time these two teams

played. It was really the beginning of the end of the Tanquin era when they had that weird onside kick that like spun like a watermelon and everybody just stood there and looked at it. That was fantastic. That was just last year. It was week three. I mean, God,

it seems like a lifetime ago. But yeah, I'm very interested. I'd been like, yeah, sure. I'm very interested in what's going to happen in that game. So I think that's a great one. Mine is the Chiefs. I know that we've,

I probably should be over this. If I'm being honest. I'm not over it. It's fine. I should probably be at a place where I think, you know what? They just don't have it this year. And in every other year, I would be fine with that. I'd be fine coming to that conclusion, getting to that place, be like, hey, you know what?

This isn't their year. They got some kinks on offense. They can't figure out. There are too many other good teams in the AFC. We'll see what happens in 2022 after they have the offseason that kind of sit back and say, all right, what does the Chief's offense under Patrick Bohomes 2.0 look like? But I can't do that because of the way. a FC standings look.

This is a 5 and 4 team in a division full of 5 win teams, and they're about to start the meat of their inter-division schedule. Five of their final 8 games are against AFC West opponents, starting today, or starting this week with the Raiders. Two of their other final 8 games are against Cincinnati and Pittsburgh. Two other 5-win teams in a very, very crowded AFC race. So if the chiefs are going to figure this out, if they somehow can emerge from the morass that the AFC playoff picture has become, this is when it's going to have to start. I don't know if they can,

but I do know that they have a ton at stake against a Raiders team that is in a very similar spot right now. You could probably pick the Raiders as your answer to this question, considering what the AFC race looks like right now. Yeah, I will say. So I was at Arrowhead Stadium last week for that game against the Packers. And look, I've been watching a lot of the Chiefs, you know, on television, their game film. But there's just something about seeing them live that really, like, it did something to me. Like, I came away from that game, but the Chiefs won that game. But I came away from that game way, way more worried about the Chiefs than I am about the Packers. There's something about the Chief's press box is one of the highest in the league. Like, you really feel like you're, like,

like at 30,000 feet up like you're in an airplane, as you all saw from, I mean, I was as high up as Jordan Love's mom, right, in that stadium. You get that all 22 live and you're just seeing either guys not get open or guys getting open underneath and Patrick Mahomes just not looking at them at all. You're seeing that he is missing throws, even some of the completions that he's making completions that would have been explosive home run plays last year. He's just, he's a little, he's a little early, little late. He's a little high. So maybe it's an eight yard completion last year. It would have been a 40-yard touchdown. There's just something that is just feels intrinsically just off about everything. And then there's a lot of game management stuff that's going on. There's the either the

inability or the unwillingness, maybe a little bit of both to run the ball. You know, there were times where, you know, they got the ball back and it was like in the fourth quarter and it was like they ran three plays. It was a 48 second drive and they punted. And at that point, I think it was a one-score game. And it's like, what are you? I just, I remember all those games where they could just reel off, you know, 80 yard drives in 90 seconds if they wanted to. And it just, everything feels really, really, really, really difficult. And that was their best defensive game of the season that they played. And part of that was who the Packers were bringing out and what their game plan was able to be like because they were able to blitz on 50% of their snaps and the Packers couldn't block them.

And Jordan Love didn't know exactly what is going to do. And they'd didn't, Matt LaFleur chose not to run the ball. There were a lot of things, but I'm really worried about the Chiefs now. And that Sunday night game, Chiefs Raiders, is going to be really, really interesting because the Raiders game last week, clearly not their best effort, right? But it's kind of understandable. Like you can excuse, I think, a lot of going to the East Coast for an early game after that really, really awful, horrible week that the Raiders endured last week with everything

that was going on. I mean, at some point, I just everything I think is going to kind of catch up to them. But Derek Carr has been playing largely great this year. And I, it's going to be really interesting. And I think, I mean, if I had to pick games, luckily, I don't have to pick games. I leave that to my five-year-old daughter. I think I would pick the Raiders. I'll see who she picks because she is way more right than I am.

But, ooh, I am worried about the chief. So that's just the last thing I'll say about that. I totally agree. I mean, I think that it's just one of those things. but if they somehow managed to find their footing here offensively, I just think everything else is so murky that there is a world where they are relevant on the stretch, even though I should have let go of this a couple weeks ago based on how they're offence. Well, you get those little glimpses.

You know, they'll look awful for 55 minutes. And then you get that glimpse. There is a third and 15 and it's a vintage Mahomes scrambling out of the pocket getting pulled down, you know, first down completion of Tyree Kill. And you're like, that's it. that's that's the chiefs again but it's one play where we're used to seeing them do that 15 times a game and that that just isn't there consistently right now all right let's move on let's get to our appointment viewing for week 10 Lindsay what can you not wait to watch this weekend

well that Sunday night game that I'm really excited about that but the game that I'm most looking forward to and we're going to get into a lot of the reasons why a little bit later with Matt Schneidman but it's Russell Wilson making his return after he's had to the pins removed from his fingers as they go to Lambeau Field to play the Packers. We know for sure that this game is going to be weird because the Seahawks and Packers have never played a normal game against each other in the history of the series. Don't go fact check that for me, but I'm sure it hasn't happened. They've always been insane.

So one, it's just probably going to be a really fun game. But, you know, I just really want to see now, okay, who is Russell Wilson post finger surgery? He has never missed an extended period of time in his professional career because in my injury. And this was pretty short, all things considered. I think back, you know, in early October when, you know, he broke his finger and had to have pins inserted, we're all kind of thinking like, oh, crap, like this, this might be really, really bad for the Seahawks. And it still might be. Look, they, you know, they lost a couple of games when he was gone. They had one easy win against the Jags. The NFC West seems to really be getting away from them. But the NFC is kind

of muddled, too. So I just want to see now who are the Seahawks once Russell Wilson is back. And Can they somehow climb their way back into the NFC West picture, or at least the wild card picture in the NFC? We talk about how money the AFC playoff race is. That last playoff spot in the NFC, who the hell knows? I mean, you're looking at it right now. The Falcons are in the playoffs. Yeah. At 4 and 4, they have the 7 seed in the NFC.

Seattle has plenty of questions, right? Their defense has been very inconsistent throughout the year. I can't remember who it was. Someone on Twitter this week. Maybe it was Josh Cohen from CBS. His Twitter handle is Jay Cohen underscore NFL. He works for CBS and does a lot of their production work. He's big film head.

I think he tweeted last week. What did the Seahawks do well? Not in the disparaging way, but what is their identity on defense? It just feels like a team that's a little bit aimless right now. But they still have Russell Wilson. They still have a lot of talent offensively. And in an NFC playoff picture that has an opening right now, they certainly could be one of the more interesting teams that could make the playoffs.

It seemed like that was out the window when Russell Wilson got hurt when we were staring at six weeks of Gino Smith. But now that Wilson is back and now that no other team has really stepped into that void, whether it would have been Minnesota, somebody like that, they suddenly have life. So I'm very interested in that because I do think that they would be a really interesting entry into that conversation. And also I don't think Wilson just coming back immediately fixes some of the things that were wrong with their offense. I mean, I think there's some inherent, you know, some things that Russell Wilson kind of does that inherently are problematic to that offense sometimes, just kind of the over-reliance on the home run balls and their inefficiency on third down. But they are unquestionably better once he is in the game. And knowing that this probably will be a weird, close game, I feel a lot better if I'm a Seahawks fan with Russ.

Russell Wilson running a two-minute drill than I did with Gino Smith, because that was one of the most painful experiences of my life was three straight weeks of Gino Smith failing in a two-minute drill. All right. My appointment viewing this week is this weird Titans team that I did not expect. The way that their defense is playing, they went from 20th in defensive DVOA last week to 10th after the performance that they had against the Rams.

The way their front is playing. DeNico Autry is playing out of his mind. Harold Landry is having this really nice season. Jeffrey Simmons had a game of his life against the Rams front last week. Kevin Byard is playing like the best defensive back in the league at any position. It's just a team that I did not expect to perform like this. If the Titans were going to be a potential contender in the AFC, I didn't expect it to happen this way.

And now they're playing against a New Orleans team that even if they lost to Atlanta last week, we know that New Orleans defense can play. This is a team that is a test for anybody. So again, it's a big game. for this Titans team that has had a really rough schedule here over the last month or so that they've had to work through. Now it's another one. And I'm tuning in. I am excited to see what they look like and to see if they can keep this going based on the way they played over the last couple weeks. Yeah. And the Titans are so confusing. We did our power rankings. They published on Wednesday.

They were kind of all over the board. They actually moved up to their tied for second in the athletics power rankings this week. We had one voter who put them at 11th, which was the only reason that kept them from being, I think, alone in second place. But, like, their good wins, you know, their wins are as good as anybody in the league. I mean, that win that they had Sunday night against the Rams, what they did to that Rams offense, the way that they owned the line of scrimmage, like you said, Jeffrey Simmons, like, I could not take my eyes off of them. I was, like, supposed to be writing.

I was in the Arrowhood Stadium Press Box, and I just couldn't stop watching that. It was just really, really fun to watch. But, God, they've lost some really bad games, too. And like I still have that thing in the back of my head that's like, this team lost to the Jets, which makes some appointment viewing because you just never know what the hell is going to happen any week with the Titans. Yeah. And I want to see, you know, the offense looked a little bit disjointed last week. It wasn't their best performance.

It was their first team. Which is understandable, right? Absolutely. Without Derek Henry. And I want to see what it looks like moving forward. The fact that they could not have a great performance on that side of the ball still beat the Rams convincingly is a testament to the way their defense played. And that's what good teams do. You know, can we have multiple options?

options multiple ways to win. And they have that right now. So I want to see what their offense looks like as they kind of figure it out here over the next couple weeks that they settle into this new version of what they have to be combined with the way that their defense is playing. So I'll admit, this team is not what I expected them to be coming into the year. I just didn't anticipate this timeline and this version of things, but they've become the sort of team that you have to pay attention to.

And I'm going to be doing it again this week. All right. Let's get to our one big question that you have about week 10. I think we might have the same question this week, but why don't you give me yours? Well, I mean, I think the eternal question for this season, I mean, it's like who is good and who is bad? And last week flipped a lot of things the way that we feel about this league for a lot of people. And so I think we're pretty much in agreement here that the one big question is, is these good teams or the teams that we thought that were good that lost last week, how many of those were blips and how many of these are kind of a sign of bad? things to come. So if you think about like the really good teams that lost last week, the Bills,

the Rams, the Cowboys, who are you most concerned about that what we saw in week nine is actually going to be the sign of some sort of downward spiral? The Bills. I think that over the last couple games, their deficiencies have been more problematic to me than other teams. They still haven't really found their footing offensively this year. When you look at the way Dallas had been playing, the way the Rams have been playing. Last week feels like a speed bump. The Cowboys ran into Vic Fangio and a defense. It still has a lot of talent on it.

It hasn't been as good or as complete as we expected them to be coming into the season, but is capable of that sort of game. The Rams had a bad day up front, and they got taken advantage of by what has become a pretty talented Titans front. I think that eventually the Rams were playing so well offensively. This is an aberration compared to what they've been for most of the season. I think the bills have struggled to find themselves, and I think that they have issues up front. I think their talent along the offensive line and some of those problems and holes are becoming apparent.

So that would be my answer. But I think that that's my question, is which of this was the start of a downward trajectory for one of these teams and which was just a bump in the road that they're going to keep driving right over? the reason that I maybe am somewhat optimistic that this will just be kind of a bump in the road for the bills is mostly just the rest of the AFC. Like I still think that when you look at the roster as a whole, their potential ceiling, I think is still higher than just about anybody else in the AFC. Actually, probably anybody else in the AFC. It's so hard because I don't think there is a clear frontrunner now. So that's the reason that I'm like optimistic a little bit that the bills are going to be able to figure this out. But my God, they were, that was so hard to watch.

It really was. So I don't, you know, I don't know if you're, if you're Brian Dable now and you're Sean McDermott and you're thinking, okay, what is our best offensive game plan moving forward? Yes, they're playing the Jets this week. It's going to be the Mike White experience. You think that this should be a game that the bills are going to win. But I'm no longer going to take that for granted right now because they should have beaten the Jags from a talent at every single position level from a coaching matchup standpoint,

the bill should have won that game. And it was really, really disconcerting that they couldn't score a touchdown against a Jaguar's defense that hasn't really been able to stop anybody all year. I totally agree. All right. Lindsay, it is time for you to sell me on Thursday night of football. What do you got? All right. So this one's a little tough. It is the Ravens at the Dolphins. So I'm really going to give you just one selling point. And that's a Lamar Jackson is going to be playing on primetime. And if you have a chance to watch Lamar Jackson, like walk down the street, eat a burrito, you know, have a FaceTime phone call, you do it.

You watch Lamar Jackson do literally anything. And the fact that we're going to get to watch him in a standalone primetime game against a defense that has been struggling. He's going back home to South Florida. It's fun. And I just want to see him all of the time. And look, I think the Ravens offense is still kind of figuring out who they are and coming to their own a little bit. But this could be a very good chance for them to figure some stuff out. This could be kind of a get right game.

And like we've talked about some of these other teams, the Ravens only play close, weird games. They seem to really not know what they're doing for two to three, three and a half quarters and then have some sort of wild crazy finish. So it'll probably be weird. it'll probably be fun, but I just want Lamar Jackson as much as possible on my television. And I'm really glad that we're going to get that. And I'm going to ignore everything else going on with the dolphins because I don't want to watch the dolphins. I'll admit.

I just, I do not want to watch them. I cannot wait. I think that we will settle in to, I can't wait to settle in to watch Lamar Jackson. I mean, just for three hours, he is worth the price of admission at this point. He is playing so well. What he means to that team is you cannot overstayed it. So, yeah, I am definitely going to be tuning in. this one. All right. It is time to get to our conversation with Matt Schneidman. Let's do it.

All right. It's time now for our not weekly team visit. We took some time off because of some odd news happenings, of which there are more. They have not stopped. But we did want to have our Packers writer, Matt Schneidman, join us today for what has been a very eventful week in his particular life. How are you doing over there, Matt? I don't know what you're talking about. There's really been nothing going on over here. Really calm, getting a lot of sleep, not checking my phone lately. So it's pretty good over here. The funniest part was you and I talk this summer.

It was maybe June. And we were joking about how when the Rogers saga ended when it came to Will Here, won't he return to the team, you could finally put your phone down for a minute. It would finally be a time. We're like, you know what? So this is your fault. This is what we're saying. It all comes roaring back.

So let's go back and just look at the week that was a little bit. What was in your mind the most surreal moment for you over the past seven days? You're like, I cannot believe that this is happening right now. When I heard the three words cancel culture casket on Friday morning, and I was like, oh, boy, this is going to be interesting. Yeah, definitely the 46 minutes that Rogers spent on Maccabee. Now I'm not going to get into what I agree with, what I disagree with, but... As you don't have to. The way he went about that was a little surprising.

Very confrontational. Very... Here's my perspective and contrasting it to his appearance with Pat on Tuesday. A lot more reserved. A lot more... Let's put this behind us. He didn't apologize, but there was some remorse expressed. for quote-unquote misleading people into thinking he was vaccinated.

You know, he was talking about the I'm immunized comment from August 26th. You know, on Friday, he said, well, if they had asked me a follow-up question, I would have said this. And then on Tuesday, he said, well, I understand that I misled people. So I don't know if he got PR advice from someone to kind of change up his strategy. but I do think he realized the storm that he created, and maybe he regretted some of the things he said or how he went about it.

But right now he just wants to talk back to football. I don't know if that's going to work, if he can just push all that other stuff behind him, but we'll see if he talks after the game on Sunday. I want to get into some of that, but I wanted to ask you something that you are uniquely positioned to answer because we've talked about this before you and I. In the scope of NFL superstars, especially NFL quarterbacks, he is a uniquely available person.

He talks to you guys every single week. He talks to you guys at length. The tone of those interactions is interesting, where there's an openness. He's willing to discuss things. It's different than the tone typically struck when a superstar quarterback is standing there at the podium. The way that he talks to the media and the way that you guys are, interact with him is different than it was with Tom Brady and New England for 20 years. As someone with that sort of proximity to that person over the last couple years,

what elements of this were surprising to you? You know, in my interactions with Rogers, whether it's in group settings or one-on-one interviews, he is extremely not only articulate but calculated in everything he says. says he sometimes when he's upset about something or wants to get a point across, he does it in a way that doesn't necessarily stoke the fire. It's not aggressive. It's a lot more subtle than confrontational, if that's a fine way to put it. Absolutely.

He's very strategic with everything he says. And, you know, often comes across as the smartest guy in the room. Because if you ask him, just what do you see on this player? Just lob him a softball. He'll go on for a minute or two dissecting everything. And maybe I will give a little bit of my opinion here, but when he went on McAfee on Friday, yes, there were some fine points, he said.

Is it fair that vaccinated players should be allowed to go right into the building without knowing if they're positive or negative? And Rogers has to wait for 30 to 40 minutes in his car. He can debate that whatever. But there were some things he said that were factually incorrect. And for someone who considers himself the smartest guy in the room, he had a page of notes, not on camera, but he was looking down at notes that he wrote to talk to Pat last Friday.

And for someone who prides himself on being the smartest guy in the room and always calculated and always planned in everything he had to say, he certainly could have done a little bit more planning and research than perhaps the 500 pages that he said he did. So that's what stood out to me most. I don't want to say it was reckless some of the things he said, but a little bit careless when you're talking about, you know, not wanting to take the vaccine because it could affect fertility

and mentioning the J&J clotting issues, which we know don't really apply to a person like him. And he quotes MLK and mentions Joe Rogan. Like it seemed a little careless. But what was reinforced was not only with his comments after the end, NFC championship game saying my future is uncertain with him saying, I'm immunized. There is a purpose, an exact purpose to every word he says. And he means something when he says, you know, I don't know what my future holds.

We saw what happened this off season. He said, I'm immunized. At the time, I was like, oh, that's weird. But now we know exactly why he said it. So you should always be listening to every word Aaron Rogers says unless he gets a little reckless and careless like he did on Friday. All right. So let's try to move forward a little bit.

You know, we've gone over in great detail what's happened in the past. But let's look forward to this week because we know that part of the protocols right now, because he was unvaccinated and tested positive, the earliest that he can be cleared to return to the Packers' active roster is Saturday. That's about 24 hours before the Packers are going to play the Seattle Seahawks on Sunday at Lambeau Field. So take us, catch us up. What is the news now going? on with Rogers. What are they preparing for this week? And what hurdles does he have to clear to be

able to play against the Seahawks on Sunday? They're fully expecting him to play. Devonze Adams just told us a couple minutes ago that he definitely expects Rogers to start. You know, Rogers has told McAfee that going back to Friday that he feels great. So it seems that he's asymptomatic. Lindsay, what is it? Is it one negative test or two that he has to have? Well, it's going to be a minimum of 10 days, but because he was symptomatic, and that was one of the things that he told Pat McAfee on Friday was that he had at least several days of symptoms, including as recently, I guess, a week ago Thursday, was feeling not great. There are some hurdles that he is to clear. So it's a minimum of 10 days. It isn't necessarily negative tests because it's a

once you hit that 10-day period, you don't have to test negative. But he has to be, you know, his symptoms have to be gone or significantly subsided. And then the one question, that I still have and have not gotten a really great answer to is what sort of conditioning hurdles does he have to clear? He does have to pass a cardiac screening. That is required for anybody who had a positive case to make sure. But in the protocols, there's this line about a three-day acclamation period. Everyone that I've talked to dating back to a week ago today, week ago Wednesday, was that he could be cleared. But I think there is still just this gray area about you know, has he met all of the thresholds? And that is going to be set by team doctors

and has to be improved by the league's infectious control experts. So that's kind of the nitty gritty the protocol stuff. But how are they preparing? I mean, what are they like in terms of like game planning and is he zooming into all of the meetings? What are they saying this week about his role in preparation? Yeah, Matt Lafleur told us this morning that Rogers has been very active and vocal in Zoom meetings prepping for the Seahawks. Rogers said to Pat that, you know, he might have gotten a little bit of a head start on the Seahawks, but he's full into Seahawks prep. Devante Adams told us that he and Rogers talked on the phone today about about game plan stuff.

But LeFleur told Jordan Love, listen, prepare like you do any week. Prepare like you're going to be the starter. And it's tricky because like you said, you know, if there is that hard and fast three-day acclamation period that they require, it's one day. Roger Rogers mentioned on McAfee the other day. He said, I got to make sure, like, my heart responds well to all this. Devante Adams tested positive for COVID the Monday before they played the Cardinals on Thursday night in week eight. And then Devante returned last Thursday.

And he didn't practice the first day. He kind of just did some light conditioning inside. So he had Thursday, Friday, Saturday before they played the chiefs on Sunday. So he did have that three-day acclimation period. I don't know how that's going to go with Rogers. But, yeah, they got to make sure his heart's okay. But he is fully involved. in all the game planning.

And Jordan Love's obviously going to take the first team reps in practice because it's only him and Blake Bortals at practice. With practice squad quarterback Kurt Benker, it's still on the COVID list after he tested positive last week as well. But by all accounts from everything we're hearing, Rogers is preparing to start on Sunday. The team is preparing for him to start. He's just having to prepare virtually.

And, you know, as far as you need in-person reps during the week to be ready, He's Aaron Rogers, not really. Not in years 16, yeah. Yvante Adams was saying today, I've developed a rapport with him for eight years. I don't, you know, I won't lose that with 10 days away from him. And quite honestly, that's correct. So, yeah, they're fully preparing for him to join Russell Wilson in the grand return of future Hall of Fame quarterbacks on Sunday.

And I think so much of the intrigue about whether Rogers can play is based on what we saw from Jordan Love last week. Obviously, the offense was disjointed. They had trouble with all the pressure that the chiefs were bringing. I'm just curious, in the days that have followed, in discussions with Batlefleur and what he said post-game, what do you feel as the temperature that they're taking up Jordan Love right now? What do they think of the way he played on Sunday?

What do they think it could mean for the future? What have you gathered about that performance and what it says about just Jordan Love in general and his outlook? Everything they've said would make you think that they're really pleased with what he did, but they're not going to stand up there and, you know, shoot his, confidence in the foot. The fact of the matter is this, he was not good on Sunday. You're not expecting him to be Aaron Rogers, though. Unrealistic expectations is what he faced. I know Lindsay was there in Kansas City with me, obviously. It did not look pretty. He targeted Devante Adams

14 times. They only connected on six to those. So many of those throws that fell incomplete are throws we see Rogers and him connect on every single time. The chiefs blitzed on 50% of Jordan loves dropbacks and he did not handle the pressure well at all. The protection was obviously an issue, but you'd have to think, well, hey, the chiefs don't much if Aaron Rogers is there, but also that's because he's much better against the blitz, those splits second decisions, making the hot reads, you name it. He did show some good things, namely, you know, creating with his feet more than Aaron Rogers does. And yes, I am spoiled watching Aaron Rogers throw football every single day, every single weekend. So maybe it's unfair for me to judge Jordan

Love a little bit based on that. I don't think it says anything too grand about the future of the Packers quarterback position. I wrote after the game, if Jordan Love had thrown for five touchdowns in 400 yards, the fact of the matter still is the Packers need to do whatever they can to keep Aaron Rogers here long term. He turns 38 years old next month. He's still playing at or near an MVP level.

But this is the situation the Packers have put themselves in. They could have one actual game of Jordan Love tape before they have to make a decision this offseason or before they have to solidify whatever you want to call it, his fifth year option. They want him or Rogers as their quarterback of the future. And it's unfair for Jordan Love for that decision to be based off one game in which he struggled, his first start, kind of thrown upon him by surprise. But that's the situation the Packers have put themselves in and the situation Rogers has kind of forced their hand into. winning MVP last year, which I don't think the Packers thought he was going to do. But they have Aaron Rogers. That's a good thing.

And if it means that Brian Gutikun says to, you know, eat his ego here in the near future and move on from Jordan Love, then that might be something that he has to do. We are recording this Wednesday afternoon. And the other bit of news related to the Packers that's been going on is all the Odell Beckham Jr. speculation. and if he might pick Green Bay, why the Packers would want him, how he could fit in. Can you just catch us up on the latest of, you know, what you know about Odell Beckham right now, knowing that, you know, tonight he could sign somewhere else or he could sign in Green Bay.

But why has this been such a kind of hot topic in Green Bay this week? Yeah, well, the Packers are notoriously averse to making moves like this. Going back to the top in-dine's days as general manager, they don't make in-season splashes. Like they make under the radar signings like grabbing Rasul Douglas off the Cardinals practice school, adding Whitney Mercoseless as their third eddresher, trading for Corey Bohorkes, who's been one of the best punters in the league. This is a move that they don't normally make, but by all reports and accounts, it seems they're right in the thick of it. And what I found very interesting was, you know, we talked to Devante Adams a little while ago. And back when the Packers were kind of rumored to be in the mix for Stefan Gilmore,

Devante Adams commented on Instagram, call me to Gilmore. Stefan Gilmore never called him, and the Panthers later traded for him. As we know, today I started off the press conference asking Devonte, like, we know how you feel about this. You know you've said you've trained yourself to not get your hopes up because of how things work around here, but where are your hopes at for Odell? And Devante started off his answer by saying, you're right. I've trained myself not to get my hopes up, but I can't lie.

My hopes are pretty high for this one. He said he's talked to O'Dell already, basically saying, you have a home here. And DeVante joked, O'Dontera, he said, O'Dell had one catch for six yards in his last game. I can guarantee you that we can get him more over here. As long as he's good with two catches for 12 yards, we'll be straight. So, but in actuality, Devante did say he's never played with another Premier wide receiver. And that's no disrespect, obviously, you know, James Jones, Jordan Nelson, Greg Jennings, Marquez Valdez, Scantling, Alan Lazzard. But the Packers haven't just had that premier guy to go behind Devante Adams.

Is that Odell? I hear dog barking. Has Odell Beckham signed with the Packers? But he really wants him. He was pretty straight up saying it would be great if he could come here. It was interesting because he was talking as if it already happened. He said, this will, provide me with more one-on-one opportunities. I don't think that was a slip-up. I think that was just the way he was addressing it, but he seemed really giddy more so than he has been in years past. And certainly that has kind of stoked the flames around this whole thing.

That's funny because after what the week has been like, you forget that this team is on the doorstep of being able to win a Super Bowl. Like this is one of the best rosters in the league. You add Odell Beckham for presumably close to the minimum. You have O'Dell Beckham, Devante Adams, an offensive line that's only going to get healthier and better over the course of the season, a defense that has been considerably better over the last month, and also is on their way to getting healthier. And it's just one of those things like, oh, yeah, when we come out of this fog that the last seven days has been like, you remember that with one or two little tweaks, this team has a chance to win the whole thing. Yeah, I mean, just a couple minutes ago, they activated David Bactiari, who you could be. make a case when healthy is the best offensive lineman on the planet.

You know, he was a first team all pro left tackle last year, tore his ACL in practice in week 17 and is now back on the active roster as of the time we're recording this for the first time since then. Jaira Alexander and all pro cornerback was seen at practice today. He wasn't practicing, but he was for the first time since injuring his shoulder in week four. It seems that he has avoided surgery and they're talking like he will be back at on point this season. All pro outside linebackers, Zedarius Smith, who's missed the last

eight games, just returned to Green Bay. I don't know where he was, but he was missed in the back and he's back in town. They got their three wide receivers back after not having them for Arizona. They're probably going to get Rogers back this weekend if he passes all the health screenings. So this is a team that's seven and two, and they haven't really been at full strength. Now, I understand no team really ever is at full strength. But the Packers are getting, they're not just getting like small role players back. They're getting all pro caliber players,

like some of the best at their positions in the league back. And there is that, you know, sliver of optimism going around the building. Like if we're seven and two with what we've been able to do and who we've been able to do it with, what are we capable of when we get everyone back? And that's the scary thing for everyone else. else in the NFL is already one of the best teams. What could they possibly do when they get

at full strength? So obviously the Jair and Zadaria Smith potentialities are really important for this defense. But if you look at the way the defense has played over the last couple of games, sneaky performances, guys stepping up that maybe we didn't anticipate stepping up. And we talk about this on the show all the time. When you want a special season, you need to stumble into performances like that. You need a Devandre. Campbell when you just sign a guy for very little in free agency and he becomes a borderline superstar for you. You need a Dean Lowry to have the season of his life. What have they made of some of these defensive performances in conversations you guys have had with Joe Barry? Which of those

guys has been most surprising to you? What do you make of some of these performances from these unheralded defensive players that have really stepped up in the stead of these superstars that we're talking about? Yeah, it's been stunning really because Adrian Amos was talking to us a couple a couple weeks ago about how people just view the Packers as an offensive team with Aaron Rogers. And, you know, the outside perception is, oh, if the defense just carries their weight, they'll be fine because the offense always does it. But the Packers haven't scored 30 points since week three. They've kind of been stuck in the 24, 27 range. And then they obviously scored seven last week with Jordan Love as their quarterback. But this is a team that led the league with 31.8 points per game

last regular season. There have been four guys that have stood out to me, Rishon Gary. in the absence of Zadaria Smith has been an absolute game wrecker, kind of taking on that primary edge rusher role. The 2019 first round pick was the fourth stringer as a rookie. And then last year, he was the third stringer behind the Smiths. Now he's taken on a bigger role and is really killing it. Devandre Campbell, you mentioned, they got him off the street in June for nothing.

And you guys know, the Packers haven't had an inside linebacker that anyone should be scared of since Ray Nitchie. I don't know. It's been 60 freaking years. It is one of the notorious blind spots on NFL rosters. Yeah. Like bears quarterbacks for years,

the Rams couldn't find a receiver to save their life. The Jets have still not replaced John Abraham as a pass rusher. Like this, every team has one of them. And for the Packers, it's been off ball linebacker for as long as I've been alive. And it's interesting because they hadn't had a packer. when NFC defensive player of the month since Clay Matthews in 2010.

Vondre Campbell won it for the month of October. You know, what stands out about him is he's not only great against the run, he's really good in past coverage. And I've been watching Blake Martinez and Christian Kirksey for the past couple of seasons. And those were guys who, while they could make a play here and there, they would rack up the tackles based on, you know, making contact, but then the ball carrier carries them another three yards downfield. or they make a tackle five yards past the first down marker.

Devandre Campbell is the first to initiate contact. He doesn't let the ball carrier make contact with him. He initiates the contact. And he has a couple sacks, interceptions. He's really good in all facets. And he's a really short tackler. Oftentimes, whenever he's in the vicinity, he will bring someone down. And that's kind of what stood out most about him.

I know it's kind of an elementary thing, but it's just something we haven't seen around here in Green Bay. even well before I started covering the team. Sewell Douglas is another one who they got off the Cardinals practice squad. Five weeks ago, I think it was, and he obviously has the game-sealing interception against his former team. With injuries to Kevin King, Jair Alexander, now Eric Stokes, Douglas has stepped in and done a really good job at that second outside cornerback spot.

And then you mentioned Lowry. He's been really good. Since he signed that three-year extension on the eve of 2019 training camp, he's been nothing. You know, Kenny Clark hasn't gotten nearly enough help on the D-line, but Dean is batting down passes, sacking guys, getting pressures. He has more pressures this season already than he did all of last season, I believe. And he's been a really important complimentary piece on Joe Barry's front.

I mean, this team was on the doorstep of a Super Bowl last year, and they moved on from their defensive coordinator. And it's something we didn't really talk about this offseason because there were so many other changes throughout the league and most of the oxygen that had been dedicated to this team was dedicated to Rogers. That decision to move on from Mike Patton to go to Joe Barry in this system, do you feel like it's been vindicated the fact that Matt LaFleur wanted to do this and this was the move that they ended up making.

Yeah, I really do think it has. Now, Mike Patton, phenomenal interview, don't think he's a bad defensive coordinator, but Matt LaFleur clearly wanted to get his guy in here. Mike Patton was a carryover from Mike McCarthy staff. Yep. Matt LaFleur was enamored with that kind of Brandon Staley-style defense. He had to go against it, and it sucks. Well, yeah, that's what LaFleur said.

He said it was hell kind of game planning to go against that in the playoffs last year. Now, the Packers dropped 32 points on the Rams and beat them by two touchdowns in that game. But after week one, when the Packers lost 383 to the Saints, you know, the number of fire Joe Barry things I saw was just crazy. And even week three, like they let up 28 points to the 49ers. But since then, man, it's been impressive what they've done, especially with all the injuries. I've been really impressed with what Joe Barry has done. And you look back to what, yes, I do not think the chiefs are a good football team this year.

But they still have pieces that can break a game open at any point. The Packers allowed one explosive passing play to the Chiefs. And years past, we see Packers' defenses get absolutely cooked. But they use that Joe Barry, Brandon Staley style of defense where you keep everything in front, prevent things from going over the top. And to hold, I don't care what chief's team it is. You held them to 13 points in one explosive passing play. That's a pretty damn good job.

And it's indicative of how far this defense has come. Well, and that I was in Kansas City with you. And that was like one of my big takeaways from that game was that the Packers were going to regret that missed opportunity. when it was the day that the Cardinals won, gained an extra game, you know, a little bit of clearance there from the rest. The Rams lost. And I think they're just going to really regret letting that opportunity slip away when that defense played so well. I mean, Aaron Jones immediately after the game said, you know, when we score 13 or when we hold, our defense holds a team to 13 points, we should win that game. And that's absolutely true. And, you know, after the game, you and I are sitting up there in kind of the auxiliary area, the press box writing our stories. we're watching the Rams and Titans game and, like, cackling and just wondering, like,

what the hell was going on to the Rams? And I was like, who is good? Is anybody good? And you said, the Packers are good. I think the Packers are good. So you've gone through some of the reasons why, but kind of state the case for why when these games really start to matter. Let's say, you know, look, the Packers are going to win NFC North. I don't think there's really any question about that right now. So when we get to January, make the case for us for why this year it might be different. for the Packers and what we've seen in the postseason the last couple of years. Yeah, I think because Kevin King won't be on the field if they get to another NFC championship game. And I mean that seriously. I know it seems as a joke, but like Eric Stokes is a better

player than him. Alexander will probably be back by then. Rasul Douglas. I was talking with some of the other writers today when all the cornerbacks are healthy. I think Rasul Douglas has to play over Kevin King, and I think they have better depth in the secondary to face a team like Tampa or the Rams. Chan and Sullivan, their nickel corner, is kind of a key component in all this because he played really poorly against the Buccaneers in the NFC title game last year. He's been playing really well lately. He played well against the Chiefs, aside from kind of losing Tyree Kill on the game ceiling first down conversion. At the end of the day, I just think it comes down to the Packers' special teams. And I think they should be the favorite in the NFC because of Aaron Rogers and especially

if they get at Odell Beckham. And also their running game, I think AJ Dylan is a star. I think he's going to be, they got to take the handcuffs off him. When he gets going, Matt LaFlorerler needs to keep him on the field. He has kind of erred in that regard by not really riding the hot hand. If they can figure out kind of the best rotation for Aaron Jones and AJ Dylan, I think the Packers can beat anybody. Lindsay knows this because she saw it on Sunday. The Packers special teams is a serious problem. They missed two field goals in a game they lost by six and they muffed a punt to gift the Chiefs three points. And nearly muffed a second punt. I would 1,000 percent blame the Packers special teams more for that loss than Jordan Love. Like the Packers aren't lamenting Jordan

love as much as there are the special teams. Aaron Rogers went on Pat McAvey's show on Tuesday and said our special teams were not special. Like they have Amari Rogers who was Trevor Lawrence's slot receiver at Clemson last year looking like, you know, a deer in headlights returning punts this year. He never looks comfortable. And then their field goal operation is abysmal. And it's not just Mason Crosby, who's missed six field goals this year after missing two, the last two seasons combined. It's the long snapper, who they just changed. It's the holder, Corey Behorquez, who's a phenomenal punter. But one thing about J.K. Scott, the punter who they cut before the season, he was a phenomenal holder.

Corey Bohrquez is not. And that's a big part of the job description for a punner as well. So special teams is a major issue. And I think that could be the one thing holding them back in a close game if it comes to that in the playoffs. So I've got one more position group that I want to ask you about before we wrap up and let you go. Take us through what the offensive line might look like when David Bakhtiari is officially

all the way back. My best guess for that is obviously Bob Tiari will be at. left tackle. I think they'll put Elton Jenkins at center. They'll either put him at left guard or center, but I think if they want to go with their best five, they put Elton Jenkins at center. They keep John Runyon Jr. at left guard. They take Royce Newman, the rookie fourth round right guard out of the starting lineup, and they move Lucas Patrick, who's been playing center over to right guard, and then keep Billy Turner at right tackle. You know, they could move John Runyon, junior from left guard to right guard and put Elton Jenkins back at left guard, which is where

he normally plays. But I think they're going to want to put him at center because he really played well last year there when he had to fill in for Corey Lindsley when he was hurt. But I think the offensive line, as we saw on Sunday, was a big weakness. And listen, I don't know if David Bakhtiari is going to be back to all pro levels. He's coming off the torn ACL and he hasn't played in a game since week 16 last season. I don't even know if he's going to play Sunday. But I think the offensive line with Bakhtiari back is able to put Jenkins back at kind of his natural spot. He's a starting caliber left tackle in this league, but he's much better on the interior than he is on the outside. So getting some protection, listen, O'Dell Beckham Jr. would be great.

There is no better move the Packers could make than getting David Bakhtiari back. That's way more important. And I think we'll see Aaron Rogers have some more time in the pocket when that happens. The one bit of news that we didn't cover earlier was the fines, the punishments that the Packers received from the NFL on Tuesday night. How did those go over in the building? What was kind of the reaction? We've seen nationally the reaction was, oh, the Packers just got a slop on the wrist. It's not a big deal.

They should have been probably punished more. What's the sense going on in Green Bay about the fines that they got? Yeah, well, I would love to know what Aaron Rogers thinks because we normally get him on Wednesday. But because he is at home doing yoga and going for walks while trying to. to get over COVID, we did not get any quarterbacks today. We just talked to DeVante Adams and Elton Jenkins. They were not asked about the fines, obviously. Well, I shouldn't say obviously, but they obviously were not fined.

I do get the sense, and you saw what C.D. Lamb said today. CDLAM got fined more for having his jersey untuck than Rogers did for breaking protocol. What's interesting to me, and obviously, Lindsay, you're more connected on the league side. So I'm interested in what you think about this. The league knew Aaron Rogers was unvaccinated. And they knew he was doing press conferences without a mask on. Like Aaron Rogers press conferences are streamed to well over two million followers that the Packers have on Twitter, let alone everywhere else they're streamed to.

And they just decide to do this once it's public that he's unvaccinated. I just, yeah. It's fishy on Rogers part. And like we've talked about, my best guess is the Packers PR staff said, you have to do this. And Rogers is like, I'm not going to. So I don't blame the Packers as much as I do Rogers and the NFL really because it's kind of silly the way they hand out these fines. Yeah. And it was weird. I asked around a lot about this over the last few days.

And kind of one of the things that I was hearing is that the people who monitor press conferences and kind of pay attention to the media rules and that all that kind of stuff, they are not privy to who is vaccinated. Like they don't get the list. But then the NFL management council and the. there are lawyers and then there's people in the union side who know. So it's just this very weird thing of like, well, who knows and who doesn't and who's responsible for enforcing the rules. And like they probably could have, you know, racked up, okay, well, now that we know for sure that Aaron Rogers is unvaccinated, you know, okay, there was nine press conferences that he didn't wear his mask. Could we have done some sort of escalating fines? And they decided to just make it one violation. And mostly the violation was for the Halloween party was not.

for the mask, the mask stuff. Like he could have been fined for the press conferences and for the Halloween party. They kind of just like lumped it all together. So yeah, it is some like weird kind of enforcement. Basically it's like we're trying to deter you from future violations is the way that I had it explained to me. It was like, look, these are the fines that were collectively bargained. The union agreed to it.

The union also agreed to the fines schedule for, you know, taunting penalties and all of this kind of stuff. So it's all kind of silly, but, you know, but look, it's, it's definitely set a new tone for the rest of the league and certainly for the Packers that we're watching you now. I'm going to be very curious if when Aaron Rogers comes back, if he decides to do, just wear his mask at the podium or if, or if he says, I'm going to go on Zoom. I mean, my, my expectation was that he didn't wear a mask because he didn't want anybody know that he wasn't vaccinated. And now everybody knows. So he could just wear it and. Right. And what's interesting, you know, here in Green Bay is like Alan Lazard isn't vaccinated and he has to wear a yellow sweatband around his ankle indicating that he's not vaccinated because that holds his tracker.

Players that are vaccinated and coaches have worn green wristbands. Now, Aaron Rogers never wore a yellow sweatband holding his tracker because like he has said and which is why he said, I'm immunized because he didn't want anyone knowing he wasn't vaccinated. And like you said, said with the mask on mass press conferences, they did everything possible to hide this. And now is it our right to know? Whatever. Aaron Rogers saying, you know, health decisions should be private. I'm not going to get into an argument about that. But there was a clear intention to deceive the public as to his vaccination status for sure. Do you think, you know, you live in Green Bay and you, you I'm sure you listen to sports talk radio and all that kind of stuff. Have people changed their opinion on him? What's, you know, what's kind of the feeling on the ground of, you know, just about Rogers at this point and who he is and do they?

Yeah. What's the sense on him? Yeah. You know, I think I have a pretty decent finger on the pulse of Packers' Twitter. I don't really listen to Sports Talk radio, but Packers' Twitter is essentially sports talk radio written form. I think it's kind of split, to be honest with you. Half of the fan base is like this guy is crazy. I don't think people have lost respect for him because at the end of the day,

he can throw out football, you know, maybe better than anyone in the NFL. They're just like, wow, I did not know my quarterback was, you know, this short-sighted to say some of the things he said. Not so much the unvaccinated part, but if you want to believe that he actually did have allergies to the ingredients he said he did. And then there's another half who say, oh, he's completely in his right, his body, his choice. And that's not the part that we're arguing anyway. So, you know, those people are a loss caused because they're missing the point here.

But it does seem a little split. I'm interested to see and I expect it to be full cheers like it normally is. But the offensive starters, all 11 of them individually are scheduled to be introduced to the stadium this Sunday. You know, they switch off every Sunday offense defense. It'll be offense this Sunday. and if Aaron Rogers is back, he'll be the last one introduced as he always is when the offense is. So I'll be interested to see kind of the reception there. Yeah, I'm guessing it's going to be a lot of shares.

I'm guessing it'll be pretty close to normal. All right, Matt, thank you very, very much for hopping on. We always appreciate the time. Please go check out all of Matt's work on the athletic. If you have not been, he is on the ground covering all of this every single day. Appreciate the time, man. I'm sure we'll chat with you soon. Thanks for having me on.

Always a pleasure. All right, guys. That's all we got today. Thank you so much to Matt. Thank you so much to Lindsay for their time. Appreciate you guys listening. Please rate and review the podcast on your podcast platform of choice. I would sincerely appreciate that.

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