The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Prospect to Pros: Scouting the Reese’s Senior Bowl with Jim Nagy

Episode Date: November 16, 2022

Executive Director of the Reese's Senior Bowl Jim Nagy joins Andy Staples and Dane Brugler to look ahead to this year’s game. They dive into the scouting process and who is eligible before breaking down the top prospects who have accepted invitations. Nagy shares his evaluation on QBs Bo Nix, Michael Penix Jr. and Tyson Bagent. They also discuss several other players who have much to gain in Mobile.Follow Andy on Twitter: @Andy_StaplesFollow Dane on Twitter: @dpbruglerFollow Jim on Twitter: @JimNagy_SBSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTube1:04 The scouting process for the Senior Bowl9:03 Christian Watson impressed in Mobile & now in NFL11:12 Tyree Wilson15:46 Bo Nix & Michael Penix Jr.20:25 Tyson Bagent23:16 Cody Mauch24:57 Jaelyn Duncan26:40 Players that have come on late and surprised them28:40 JL Skinner30:28 Nick Saldiveri Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Football Show. Welcome to Prospects to Pros, where we talk about the guys who are about to enter the NFL, the guys who just got into the NFL, and everything in between. I'm Andy Staples. We have the athletics draft guru Dane Brugler here, but even more importantly than either of us, we have one of the most important guys in the draft industrial complex. Senior Bowl executive director Jim Naguiz. Jim, how are we doing?

I'm great Andy that's quite an intro man thank you oh well listen you you wield a lot of power you're you're the one who introduces us to the guys that sometimes we don't know a whole lot about and then after they spend a week with you mobile a lot of a lot of teams want to throw a lot of money at them yeah well we hope that's the case we hope we hope so so what what has this been this year been like scout and i've i love when you when you go and you got eyes on the the ground at various sites and you'll tag us every once in a while and I think you you tagged me on an osiris towards tweet you're like this is what a this is what an early round offensive lineman looks like and I was like wow there haven't been many of those in gainsville lately so that's that's that's

nice yeah it's been it's been a fun year I mean we're really kind of wrapping up the scouting process and you guys know it's year-round for you guys and Dana I know how hard you work at it so you know we started really like last February a couple weeks after our game kind of to give the staff some time off, a couple weeks to recharge the batteries, and then we get right back at it. And then we had a lot of turnover in the off season. We had three scouting assistants move on

and get jobs at the college level and our DFO left to get a job in the NFL. And we had four scouts off last year's area scout staff get jobs in the NFL. So we're always restocking the deck of scout. So just getting everyone back on board and out on the road is a process. But man, it was a lot of fun. And the one layer that we kind of,

added to it this year. We've been doing the Senior Bowl scouting school back way before me, Phil Savage was doing it for a long time. And I'd always come down and speak at that. And the only new wrinkle we've put on it, we just open it up to former players now because we're really trying to make an impact with, you know, diversity hiring in the league and getting former players into the profession. And so we got those guys out on the road this year with this apprentice program. We had them go out with our area scouts and kind of see the protocol of how you do a game and handle yourself on the road and then we cut those guys loose. And so it seems like we were everywhere, even more so than most falls this year. It's because we had some extra bodies out there. I think we

were at double-digit games every weekend through the first nine or ten weeks of the college season. But it's wrapping up and invites are out. We're building the roster. So it's just an exciting time. Before we talk about some specific players with the pandemic and all the changes in college football, the transfer portal. What have been the challenges from your perspective with just the constant evolution of how things are playing out here the last few years? That's a really good, really good point, Dane. Good question.

The biggest challenge was having the game during COVID. So we had the game two years ago kind of in the peak of COVID. So hopefully we don't have to pull something like that off again. But the biggest challenge is just figuring out which of these players. schools want to get back. And I think our process, again, long predating my time at the Senior Bowl, their protocol has always been to send the Senior Bowl invites to the head coaches of the school and then let them disseminate the invites, you know, at their own discretion. And that's, that's really worked well this year because we've sent them out based off who we know is eligible.

And we've gotten some phone calls from some from some school saying, well, Jim, we're trying to keep this guy in or we're, you know, we're going to at least talk to this guy. about maybe coming back. So that has definitely complicated it because when the invoids go out the door, you kind of have a roster number in mind. And then you get two or three phone calls, and they might be about three offensive linemen. Now you're down three offensive line spots.

So I'd say that's the biggest thing. I can't wait to get through all the COVID numbers so we can just get back to normal and know we know who we're going to get and who we can go after and who we can't go after. Is it also like the NIL has it changed the math with some of these fourth year players where, you know, if you don't think you're going to be a first or second round pick, but you're doing fairly well with NIL, do you think about staying another year in college and maybe seeing if you can make a jump? You know, it totally makes sense. That makes a lot of sense. I don't know if that's like come up yet. I've kind of, we've anticipated that, but I'm trying to think if there was an instance where, you know, a guy can. ask is it's happening in basketball, but I haven't heard of it happening in football yet. Yeah, you know, we had, we had five or six guys last year except their senior bowl invites and go back.

DeMarvie and Overshone from Texas, Riley Moss, the corner from Iowa. There's a handful of those guys. And I don't know if that was NIL related or not. Maybe it was. You know, it's just kind of we get the word from the school or like the player will reach out and say, Jim, like here's, here's how my decision went down. and I think I'm just going to go back and try to develop. But no one's really cited NIL, but that could certainly play a part of it. Well, and as just a refresher for our listeners,

what are the exact requirements to be eligible for the senior bowl? Because it's, like you mentioned, it's not quite as simple as just being a senior anymore. Yeah, it's definitely more complicated with the COVID thing. So like, just let's just keep it for this year in particular. If you left high school in 2018, you're automatically eligible. You can play in the game. If you left in 2019, you would have had to play five or more games in four seasons, five or more, not four or more. Because if you play four, then schools can use that redshirt on you.

Where we got into a little trouble, we were using those standards. Like, Siaki Ika from Baylor was a guy that didn't play five games in 2020. So we went through the fall. We didn't put them on our watch list. Dantavian Wicks is another guy. Like we were trying to just like do right by the NFL guidelines. put those guys out on our watch list. And then we submitted a list to the league office, you know, about a month ago or so,

three weeks maybe. And a bunch of those guys came back that they are eligible because they literally, they wiped away that 20, 20 years. So it didn't matter if you played in 13 games in 2020 or zero in 2020. That counted as a full year. So if you got your five games in in 2019 and only, and didn't play it all in 2020, I'm probably confusing you now. but, you know, basically 2020, whatever happens, happens,

but you had to play five and eight and 19 and 21 and 22. Yeah, Apuica is an interesting case because he left LSU midseason, had to sit out, and you're not used to that. Normally, now they just go and play right away at the new school. And so I can't wait to see him in your practices, by the way, because I love the idea of an interior defensive lineman from the Big 12 doing big things because I think that league needs needs to be able to show proof of concept to those players when they're getting recruited that, hey, you can be good here, you can be an effective NFL player,

you can be a high draft pick. Because Ross Blacklock, I think, is the only interior defensive lineman out of the Big 12 has been drafted in the first round in four or five years. So. Yeah, it's a dated reference now, Andy. I think it was my last year with the Seahawks. The entire Big 12 conference had six defensive players invited to the combine. In that same year, Alabama had seven, LSU had seven. And I think Florida had six.

So you had three teams in the SEC with as many or more players. So again, I think the Big 12 has done a better job since then. I think it's coming around. But yeah, to get to get Eke in the game is going to be big. I mean, especially for him, he projects as a two-down nose. And the question is, like in a starter level, knows. But in order to make that next jump, I mean, he's really going to have to show down here that he can at least push the pocket and affect things on third down to really

take that next jump. I think we saw that last year with Travis Jones from Yukon, came down here. And I was surprised he lasted the third round after the week he had down here. I mean, he was walking guys back, like Cole Strange and Zion Johnson, who went on to be first round picks. So hopefully Siaki can come down and do something similar in one-on-ones and show teams that he can he can at least collapse the pocket. And it isn't just a two-down player.

Another guy that your game was the first exposure for a lot of people to was Christian Watson last year. And obviously, he had a massive game against the Cowboys on Sunday. And it looks like he could be the next star for the Packers. When you know you got a guy from the FC, he was at North Dakota State, when you know you got a guy from the FCS level who can really make that. leap. How excited are you to watch them in those practices? Very excited. I mean, I think Kristen's an interesting case, guys. We talked about it before with our scouting process. It's important to me that we do all our own work. And that's why we've built a real scouting operation out here now. But part of our process, once we're done, is getting and using our

relationships with the NFL and really vetting out our roster to them and making sure we're inviting the players they want to see. And a year ago at this time, we went through that process with about half the league's teams and we do it all with GMs and director level guys that can either sit in the draft room or have the computer pulled up and just, you know, look at a position group and we just trade grades. I mean, Christian Watson was like a fourth or fifth round pick for most teams a year ago at this time. And we had reservations on his hands. You know, that's kind of what held us back. I mean, he clearly played at a different speed at the FCS level, you know, and then so that's what he wasn't even a first wave invite for us

last year because the league was so low on him. We wanted to kind of watch how things transpired in November. And then he comes down here and not only that speed carried over, like it was obvious, you know, watching the FCS stuff. But to come down here, even day one, we had senior bowl committee members that aren't trained scouts at all coming up to me like, who's the North Dakota State guy? So yeah, for him to go from the fourth or fifth round a year ago at this time all the way up to 34 overall, I think you could say the same thing with like Troy Anderson from

Montana State. He was a fifth or a sixth for most teams when we made those calls. And he gets all the way up to top 50, like right there at 50 for Atlanta. So yeah, I think all the players can benefit from coming down here and having a great week, but especially those small school guys because it's such a prove-it platform for those guys coming from the small school level. Going back to the Big 12 defender discussion, Tyree Wilson, great get for you guys. Physically impressive, six, five and a half. 175 pounds, over 35-inch arms out of Texas Tech, not just tools. I mean, he leads the FBS and pressures. I think his tape has gotten better every year. I know for me, he was clearly the best

defensive senior on my board. How does that match up with you and your staff and what you, what you thought of him when you stacked your board? Yeah, he's a reason he's a guy to like. I mean, just from just looking out on paper, he's an interesting guy, right? And then you, and then you put on the tape. And to me, the thing that sticks out, most longer-bodied guys like that with that kind of reach, have a hard time, like, generating sudden power. And to me, that's one thing he can do. And so, you know, he's just a mismatch because he's got length. He's got power. You can put him out there in the edge. You can put him over guards. I mean, he's just really got some cool versatility as a rusher.

And like you said, you cited the pressure numbers. It's not always sacks. It's how can they affect the quarterback. And he's obviously doing that at a high rate. It doesn't always show up on paper unless you dig into the deep analytics, the PFF stuff, where you get the pressure stuff and the pressure rate stuff. But yeah, he was an easy guy to invite. I mean, honestly, like, I haven't even watched a ton of 2022 tape because it's like we're doing

Chris, dude, it's like doing Aidan Hutchinson a year ago. Like you watch this junior tape, you know the guy's going to be a first round pick. Like, I can't, I don't have time to spin my wheels and watch a bunch of Tyree Wilson tape when we know we want them in the game. You got to really focus on those fourth and fifth rounds where a cut line usually falls. Well, but a lot of guys who are potential first round of draft picks will shy away from the game because they don't want to either don't want to get hurt, don't want to compete. When a guy who projects as potentially one says, hey, I want to go play, I want to show what I can do against these guys. how much can that help that person? Well, I think if you look at the guys that have come down here

and I've been in that first round range, like that somewhere mid-first to mid-second, I mean, they all help themselves. Yeah, I mean, here's the thing. Like, I've told the agent since I got this job, like to me, our game makes more sense for the high round guys than the lower-round guys because you can be Terry McLauran

and you can come down here as a fifth or sixth-round pick and get all the way to the third round and jump two or three rounds. and make a lot of money. Or you can be Cadarius Tony, who was probably somewhere in that 35 to 40 range for most teams and get up to 20 and move up 15 spots and make a lot more money than Terry McLauran did. So it's the guys that want to compete.

I mean, I'll share a brief story. Like last year, trying to get Vaughn Miller back down here for the Hall of Fame event. I was talking to his agent, Joby Branden, and Joby's like, oh, Jim, he'll be fired up about it. He loved his senior bowl experience. And Joby just shared with me, like he was recruiting Vaughn that fall at Texas A&M, and there was two other big, big, well-known agents going after him, and they were both telling him not to play in the senior bowl.

And Joby was like, well, let's just see this thing through. Like, finish your season, we'll talk about it. You know, and when Joby started talking to guys in the NFL, they had him as like a mid-round pick. And I told Jobie, I'm glad you didn't reach out to me because he's one of the highest graded defensive players I ever did. The only guy had an 8-0 or an 8-5 on Von Miller coming out. But so he said, you're a mid-first-round.

pick like and you can rush the passer and that that week is set up for guys like you that have your skill set so bond came down and he ripped it up all week and then uh you know he goes out in the game and he plays every snap of the game and joby was like sick to his stomach trying to you know watching bond go through the whole game and he wins MVP of the game he has two or three sacks um and he went second or third overall so to go from like a mid first round picked up there i mean you're talking you know tens of you know 10 15 million dollars so Again, to me, it makes sense for all the guys. If you're worried about injury, we've dove, you know,

we've took a deep dive into the stats over the last five years since we've been here. More guys get hurt at the Combine than they get hurt at the Senior Bowl. You just wouldn't think that because our guys are in pads. But there's more non-contact stuff, torn packs, rip knees that happen at the combine than they do here in Mobile. Yeah, we've seen some of the best quarterbacks in the league. Josh Allen, Justin Herbert, go compete at the Senior Bowl. And that's been a lot of fun.

Switching to the quarterback conversation, we've seen a couple of quarterbacks in the PAC 12 really stand out this year. Two transfers that have rehabbed their draft stock maybe and forced scouts to reevaluate talking about Oregon's Bo Nix and Washington's Michael Pennix. You just played a great game on Saturday. Obviously, we'll wait and find out about the medicals and all that. But just based off the tape, based off what they've done on the field, they both look like draftable players. What have you seen from both? Yeah, they both, they both helped themselves immensely. And I'm a little more, you know, intimately involved in the Bow Nix thing, just being

down here in the state of Alabama, watching that kid play high school football. And then going to Auburn and being a legacy up there. And I felt it was really unfair, like the Auburn fan base, he kind of became the whiffing boy, you know, for the issues they had up there at Auburn offensively. And again, there wasn't great offensive line play over his time here. and he made the decision to go up to Auburn, and it's been great to see. I mean, I saw an interview with him the other day that he has answers in this offense. Now, there's a check system.

He looks a lot more comfortable, and that usually stems from having answers when you go to the line and you're not locked into a bad play that you know before you snap the ball. It's not going to work. So he's done a nice job. I think the big word to describe Bow in the past has been inconsistent, and he's become very consistent this year. And he's a really good athlete. We've all seen that. I mean, his ability to run around and ad lib and play a little sandlot ball.

I mean, that's kind of what drew you to the athlete in some of the arm talent stuff. And now just the ability to play from the pocket. And then I think Michael Pennix's thing is just staying healthy. You know, he's been a guy that's been beat up a bunch. And I just going back two years ago, he was at the Manning Camp. And he was ripping it that day. I remember talking to Rhett Lewis from the NFL Network, who is an Indiana alum. And Rhett was interviewing one day after the throwing session, and we started talking.

I mean, he was lights out that day. I was over there in Tibado a couple of years ago. And then he had a down year last year. So to see him go back. And I know, Dan, you and I were texting yesterday. We were both watching that Oregon game. We were watching tape at the same time yesterday. So, yeah, both those guys have helped themselves quite a bit this year.

So we were talking about the transfer portal earlier, but I'm curious. When now that you're getting a chance to see guys, in multiple places, in multiple systems, multiple environments. And in some cases, they look like different people. And you just mentioned Bonix and Michael Pennix, which they both fit that category. Hinden Hooker's another one. There's a bunch of Hinden Hooker at Virginia Tech tape. But then he's got two years of Tennessee tape, too.

So how do you guys as evaluators reconcile when something looks completely different here from here? Well, that's a great question, Andy. I think I was up at Clemson just like two or three weeks ago speaking to their draft eligible guys. And I was talking to Woody McCorvey on their staff. Coach McCorby's, as Andy, you know, he's, you know, Dabo's right-hand guy. Davos position coach at Bama. That's right. I covered him at Tennessee on Philip Fulmer staff.

Yeah. And so Coach McCorvey was saying when they played Votech three years ago, Hooker got benched. And they brought in another quarterback. and I won't even mention his name, but it's amazing to see the divergent paths of two players. I mean, Hooker ends up in Tennessee, and he should be sitting in New York for the Heisman presentation, and this other quarterback's out west right now and got benched midway through the year. So, but what it does, it allows you to go to two different staffs as a scouting, you know, as a scouting operation, you can tap into two groups of people, I mean, gather information about the

player. And for the player, it's not just rehabbing. I think, you know, Dane used the word rehab themselves. It's also an image thing too. Like if you change schools, sometimes you can get pigeonholed is one thing in college. And college is a huge growth opportunity, right? Like we were all there. Like you're four or five years in college.

You're not the same person as a senior that you were as a freshman when you came in. So a lot of these guys, when they transfer, they figure themselves out. And it's a new environment. They can kind of reinvent themselves as not just players, but as people. So I think it's a great growth opportunity for the guys. I just think for the NFL teams, it gives you an opportunity to really drill down with two different sets of people. And it can really illustrate that growth.

I think as a team, you get a better handle on who you're drafting when you've had, when they've been exposed to, you know, more than one, more than one, more than one, more than one building. One of the more interesting quarterback prospects this year is actually from Division 2, Tyson Bajent from Shepard. I talked to him last night, really interesting guy. It's, is funny listening to him talk about how, in the offseason, he actually entered the transfer portal for a minute. He had offers from West Virginia,

from Maryland, but he decided to go back. He decided to go back to Shepard, finish what he started, be back with his teammates. His family is interesting. His dad's a world champion arm wrestler. But, you know, he accepted a senior bowl invite. And look, that's the exact type of talent that scouts want to see at an all-star game, right? I mean, clearly productive. But, you know, how does his talent respond versus better competition? with better throwing to better receivers hypothetically. So, you know, what about his tape that you saw from Bejit led to him getting an invite from you guys?

Yeah, there's a lot there, man. And you brought up. He's really a cool kid. I met the dad over the summer. As dad was up there when we brought the invite last week, and he's a huge personality. I think most people in Mobile are going to know Tyson's dad by the time the week's over. He's an awesome guy. But, you know, it's in Shepherds Town, West Virginia there.

It's a town of 2,000 people. Tyson grew up there. Like you said, he jumped in the portal and talking to the head coach. If he would have got a USC or a Notre Dame offer, he probably would have made that jump. But it was, you know, he didn't get those kind of. So he stayed. And to me that, I love that, right? He stayed with his guys that he came in with.

He valued that. He wants to win a championship with those guys. You know, but from a skill set perspective, He is 6-3. He's 220 pounds. He's a big strap together, good-looking guy. He can move around. What I like most, he can layer the football down the field, over-coverage. He's accurate. Again, it's just one of those things that there's a lot of day three quarterbacks in this class. I think it's a bottom heavy quarterback group. I don't think, you know, we talked about all summer that, you know, the big narrative in the media that this was going to be this great quarterback class.

you know i i think there's a lot of them because a lot of them stayed in school for that sixth year so i think there's numbers um but it's a lot of we meant better than last year i think that's that's pretty much all it is at this point yeah maybe maybe that was the comparison um but to me with tyson if it was tyson with a similar day three grade to a bunch of guys that have played fbs football forever he was our only sub fbs guy we had a draftable grade on we didn't have any draftable grades on fcs quarterbacks this year so to me it's it's just knowing the purpose of the Senior Bowl and what this game is here for, and that's to help the 32 teams evaluate players and draft players. We owed it to the 32 teams to bring Tyson here and let him

show his stuff. Speaking of the FCS, one FCS player, you and I talked about back at SEC Media Days, and Dane and I have been trading texts on this guy all year because he's just, just the look is unbelievable. The vibes coming off this guy are amazing. But Cody Mock from North Dakota State, and I know he was one of the first invites that you sent out for this game. And you've had great, great experiences with North Dakota State guys. We talked about Christian Watson. Carson Wentz solidified his draft position at your game. That's kind of the gift that keeps on giving.

Yeah. I mean, that Bison program is incredible. Yeah, Carson was the year before I got here two years before. But yeah, went from like late one, early two. I know in Seattle we had like a late one early two on him. And he goes second overall. and Dylan Radin's a couple years ago, went in the 40s to the Tennessee Titans,

and Billy Turner, I mean, there's a long miss there. But yeah, Cody Mock's a really fun player to watch. He's a really good athlete. What I didn't know was I saw some of the pictures. Once the invite came out, people posted pictures of Cody when he was this 220-pound tight end coming out of, you know, small school North Dakota football. Didn't even look like the same person.

He had, you know, his head buzz cut, and he now he's got the long hair. but he makes it look so easy at that level. Like there's never any strain. He's a far superior athlete against anyone he's playing against. He's super efficient technique-wise. So again, he's not even a guy. I watched a lot of 2020 tape on because the junior stuff was so good.

And him being an FCS level player, it was a no-brainer. Yeah, being a former walk-on at a tight end and to see what he's turned into has been a lot of fun. Another offensive tackle that just before we hit record that accepted a senior boy invite, Jalen Duncan from Maryland, who has been a really talented left tackle for the Terps. Not the longest player, but you love the athletic tools, stays balanced and pass pro. I really like his reset skills. But, you know, I think there's, from scouts, I've heard feedback, some say early second round. Some say more late third, early fourth round.

So seeing him in one-on-ones in Mobile is going to be a great opportunity for him. Yeah, he is, he's a, I shy away from using the word elite. I think it's thrown out a little bit too much, but he's a, he's a very good to excellent athlete. I mean, he's a starting left tackle athlete at the next level. There's no doubt about that. I think the range just comes from, you know, some of the competitive stuff, you know. Sometimes when you're that talented, it's easy. it's almost too easy and you can get bored a little bit.

I think that happens a lot with corners. I remember doing Patrick Peterson at LSU, and I actually liked his return tape better than his defensive tape because I thought he played lack of day school on defense. And when you just drilled down and you talk to him after the season was over, he just was disinterested. He got bored. Like he wasn't challenged, which tells you how talented he was in the SEC.

And I think that happens with Jalen sometimes. He can do anything you want athletically to stay in front. front of people. So it'll be a big week for him. I think that one-on-ones he can he can really solidify himself where he's at. I think he's, you know, in terms of left tackle athletes, he's probably the best in the senior class. So he was a bit he was a big out for us. We're excited about getting him down here. So of the guys that that you've invited publicly or that have accepted, who is the one that came on the latest for you that you maybe didn't think was somebody that would be in your game? And then as the season went on, you're like,

we got to make sure we get this person here. Ah, the guys that have accepted already. That's, I mean, like I said, you know, Eka and Dantavian Wicks were two guys that we were kind of laid on just because we didn't think we would have them. Yeah. But in terms of, you know, I'll say this, like we got one from Chris Rodriguez,

the running back in Kentucky yesterday. And he's just one of the guys. Obviously, we liked him last year. He ran for whatever it was, 1,300 yards in the SEC. But he's one of those big backs that you appreciate them. more you watch him. He just has that wear down factor. He's got kind of that tone setter to him. I mean, Kentucky's a different offense with him out there. And maybe I just appreciate those guys a lot,

the teams that I was with in the past going all the way back. My first few years, my first year in Washington, we had Stephen Davis. And then I go to New England. We had, like, you know, we had Corey Dillon. And then in Seattle, we had Marchion. Like, I just appreciate those backs that kind of set the tone. And Chris is one of those guys. So he has. I mean, he was at a decent score. out on the board last year. But, you know, the more I watched him, the more we just kind of kept pushing him up because I just appreciate what he brings

from a, you know, physicality and toughness standpoint. And broke a long one last weekend against Mandy, too. Yeah. And he's a pretty skilled runner. You see patience. You see some lateral agility to what he's doing. So I agree.

I mean, he seems like the type of fact that's just going to play for the next 10 years. And, you know, maybe is in a thousand-yard rusher, or maybe he gets one or two of those, but he's just going to play for a long time because of what you said. I think another guy that really, well, I mean, he started high in the summer,

but I think has sustained that. J.L. Skinner, the supersized safety from Boise State, I saw just was a recent, announced, accepted invite for you guys. You don't see many safeties that are six four, and legit six four, not just listed six four. He is a legit six four, or 210, 215 pounds.

And he's going to run probably in the 4-4s. So he's got that athletic profile. What do you envision his best NFL role being, best position, best scheme, that type of fit? Well, I think from a measurable standpoint, and you cut on the tape, and I still haven't seen Jay all myself physically. I think we saw Boise play.

We saw them play two or three different times from two or three different scouts this year. So I got some of the video back from our scouts, but I haven't like seen him yet. But anytime you see those measurable, like he's not as thick as Camp Chancellor was, but in terms of like a height safety, you automatically kind of want to stick that guy closer to the line of scrimmage and make him more of a whole player.

But I'll say this, like you brought up to 4-4 speed. He has legit range. I mean, there's evidence of him playing from depth in the secondary, whether it's off the hash or off the post. And he has range back there. And he's got ball skills back there. He can track it. So he's not just a strong safety.

I think he's got more interchangeable qualities to him than a lot of big safeties have. I think the thing for him coming down here is going to be some of the man-to-man stuff on tight ends will be big. I mean, if you can have that mismatch guy. I mean, every NFL team is trying to mismatch you on offense with a playmaking tight end. Now you need someone to take that guy away. If he can prove he's that guy, that's where you're going to see J.L. I think right now for most teams, he's probably like a later day two guy that we've spoken to at least. And then he's probably got a chance to ascend from there

if he comes down here and handles tight ends. So you invited Nick Sal DeVary from Old Dominion, the offensive tackle. That's a guy I talked to earlier this year right after they beat Virginia Tech and kind of been through it all. You know, they didn't even play a season in 2020 and stuck it out. When you find guys like that who are just kind of the glue of their team, how much can they kind of... let scouts or let NFL teams understand that during the week of the senior bowl?

Well, that's a good question, Andy. I think what happens is a scout, you go into the school and you hear that stuff, right? And it's impactful. I mean, you go around the building and you're talking to all the different sources, whether it be support staff members or academic people or your coaches or, you know, equipment staff, whoever it might be. I mean, you try to fully source the building and get different opinions from people that see these guys through different lenses, but it's even more impactful when you get, you know,

one-on-one with the player. And you hear him tell his story. You've heard it from everyone else. You've heard his story through other people's eyes. Now you hear it from their story. So it's really impactful. And I just know, you know, we're excited to get him down here because, you know, his head coach hit me up personally and went to bat for him on what a great kid he is and the get to have upside that you think, uh, think Saldivari has on the field. And, and again, just as a player, like, I really think he can be a high end center.

Um, you know, just with his, with his hand quickness and his foot quickness and his hand strength. And, um, so he's going to be just doing some of that down here in Mobile as well, even though he's, you know, he's played mostly tackle there at ODU. Um, and he's going to be coming down here to Mobile in a week, um, this Saturday after Thanksgiving. He'll be down here playing South Alabama. So I can't wait to, uh, get my first look at him. Well, Jim, what can fans,

and media expect this year at the Senior Bowl. Any changes to what we've seen in the past? You know, I know you did such a great job, you know, expanding the Senior Bowl brand and then COVID kind of disrupted things. So what's the Senior Bowl going to look like in 2023? Yeah, similar. You know, we built out the week. We had the Senior Bowl Summit event last year. It was kind of keynoted by Kirk Herb Street. We had Nick Saban and Sark and Brian Harson and James Franklin, all those guys there for that. We do that Thursday night. We've got our Mardi Gras parade with our players, which, you know, Mobiel is the home of Mardi Gras. If there's anything that Mobilians are more proud of than being the home in the senior bowl, it's being the original home

of Mardi Gras. So, and because we push back a week when the, when the, you know, the NFL kicked to the 18 week schedule, now we're, this is for the first time in a long time, we're overlapping with the actual Mardi Gras. So our parade on Friday night, the night before the game, is the first real Mardi Gras parade. There will be 60 to 100,000 people downtown for that. And then we do our concert Friday night, and we haven't announced that act yet, but just signed the contract on that.

It's going to be a good act. But I'd say the biggest thing for the media, a little more availability this year. We scaled it. We had to really scale it back for COVID. And media had to do interviews from the stands, and we got guys at podiums and whatnot. We're going to open the field back up after practices.

So I think the media will like that. But again, we just last year, we were still a little bit in it, right? So we still try to do, you know, be as safe as we could. So I think we're going to open things up a little bit more this year. But no huge changes. I think where we're at right now at the week schedule and where these players are at with the interview process, we've had a ton of interview time for our players. I think we're pretty happy with it.

The one-on-one pass pro drill needs its own television show. Like that should be you should put that in prime time like each day's one-on-one pass pro Just period preaching to the choir man. I've been saying it to the NFL network in ESPN for five years so I'm blue in the face you I there should be a one-on-one special I want tail of the tape before each each each rep like let's do it no question no you could produce the heck out of that it would be great but I don't know I'm just I'm just a dumb football guy so I'll just I'll just stay in my lane when it comes to that's go. No, that is, that is absolutely my favorite part of it. It was it Trevor Penning and Kyron Johnson last year.

Kyron Johnson from Kansas had an unbelievable day, including a rep that Trevor Penning, I think would rather forget. But that is, that is absolutely. I do have another O-line question for you, though, because you were talking about Nick Salterbury and how he's a tackle at Old Dominion, and you're saying he could be a really good center. So when you invited. Quinn Miners a few years ago from Wisconsin Whitewater, he started practicing snapping on his own

to get ready to play center in your game. Now, he's ended up playing guard for the Broncos, but he wanted to show teams that he could play center. What are you looking for in a guy who's never played center before where you say, okay, this is a potential center? Well, I think with Quinn, man, he's a, I'm glad you bring him up. Like, he's really an incredible story in what that year was all about. I mean, in terms of him playing center, he wasn't going to play tackle. You know, if you're going to be a one position player, you better be a starter, right? It's hard to be a guard only or a right tackle only and make a roster if you're a backup. So, you know, he had to try to play center. We didn't know what it would look like. He'd never

done it in a competitive environment before. In that same year, Robert Hainsey from Notre Dame, same thing. I mean, Robert had played guard and tackle, but he came down here. And we had a sixth round grade on Robert Hainz. In all honesty, before we brought him down, he was a guy that Brian Kelly really lobbied for to be in the game. And we had Liam Eichenberg committed that year. And Haney comes down and plays center. He looks better at center than he ever looked at tackle.

So, yeah, no, Quinn, I just think the willingness of those guys to come down and try it, right, and be vulnerable and say, you know what, I'm going to let it rip. And it might not be perfect. But I think the teams appreciate that, that they're competitive enough that they want to do it. I tell all the guys that, like, they're not going to hold you to a huge high standard. They're not expecting to look like a pro bowler in these rest, but just the willingness and the ability to get better from Tuesday to Saturday. That's what they're going to measure, right? And so, yeah, a guy like Quinn to come in from Division III, you know, never putting a ball

between his legs and his life, and then having a block of guys that from the SEC and the Big Ten, really one of the more incredible senior bowl things I've ever seen. And I've been coming down here for like 24 years. All right. Well, Jim, thank you so much. I can't wait. Dane and aren't going to be there. I'm going to show Dane all the best places to eat in Mobile. I know he's been there a lot, but I got the secret spots.

Oh, I got to hear about this because I mean, I think I've got the secret spots. I mean, there's... Listen, I know where you're going to the royal scam. You're going to those places downtown. But we're going to get you out, out and about amongst the people in Mobile. So... Just find me a really good catfish. place. Okay, that's catfish. Southern catfish is like my favorite thing in the world.

We can do that. And I'll actually, I'll show you a nice barbecue place that's pretty close to where they're practicing. So we're in good shape there. Jim. That's a real, Andy, that's a really good spot. I know exactly brick pit. I know what you're talking about. Yeah. I think that one's a, that's a May at Rest and Peace place. I was going meat boss is the newer one. But, uh, brick. There you go. It was one of my one of my all time favorite. I love that place. I'm partial. I'm partial to most. Moes is kind of like been my go to. barbecue-wise in Mobile. So, this is chain barbecue.

Hey. So for the people, the people that haven't been to Mobile, you can, you now know there's plenty of barbecue options. There you go. I'm not sure who's a sponsor for you, Jim. So I'm trying to be very careful here with what I say. I don't want to get you in any trouble. So thank you so much, Jim.

Yeah, appreciate it, guys. Thanks for having me on. This was the Athletic Football Show.