The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Prospects to Pros: Bruce Feldman’s players to watch, RBs on scouts radar + comparing the 2023 & 2024 QB class

Episode Date: November 9, 2022

Andy Staples and Dane Brugler welcome The Athletic’s Bruce Feldman to the show to talk about the players who have caught his attention ahead of the 2023 NFL Draft. They discuss Tyree Wilson, Michigan’s draft prospects and several running backs who could land in the top 100. They also dive into the quarterbacks and where the 2024 class with Drake Maye and Caleb Williams compares to this year’s group of C.J. Stroud, Bryce Young and Will Levis. Follow Andy on Twitter: @Andy_StaplesFollow Dane on Twitter: @dpbruglerFollow Bruce on Twitter: @BruceFeldmanCFBSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTube1:16 Tyree Wilson8:56 Michigan draft prospects (Mazi Smith, Olusegun Oluwatimi, Eyabi Okie, Blake Corum)30:54 RBs to watch (Jahmyr Gibbs, Zach Evans, Zach Charbonnet, Eric Gray, Izzy Abanikanda, Sean Tucker, Chase Brown39:47 Prospects Dane hated leaving off his midseason top 50(Josh Downs)47:17 2024 QB Class (Drake Maye & Caleb Williams)56:13 2023 QB Class (C.J. Stroud, Bryce Young, Will Levis) Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Football Show. Welcome to Prospects to Pros, the show where we talk about the college football players who are about to be NFL players, the NFL players who were just college football players, and everything in between. I'm Andy Staples. I'm here with Dane Bruegler, the athletics draft guru, and very special guest. The King of the Freaks list. He's actually a freak himself, if you ever seen him do pull-ups. Bruce Feldman. from the athlete. Hey, Bruce.

Oh, good to be on with two of my favorite people, two my favorite co-workers. So I'm excited about this. I always love this kind of nerd space that we're in that we're all kind of, I don't know, a little too giddy about. We're going to be really nerdy. And I'm so excited. I was texting with Dane the other day. And so there was one prospect in his top 50 that I meant to ask him about last week.

And I didn't really get a chance to. And then I watched the game that you were at this weekend, the Texas, TCU game. And I'm like, oh my God, Tyree Wilson from Texas Tech, he's the edge rusher. He's 6-6-270. He almost single-handedly ended TCU's undefeated season. Like if Texas Tech's offense had to be able to do anything in the second half, Tyree Wilson may have changed the whole story of the Big 12 this year. What did you see in person from this guy? Yeah, I mean, so fortunately, I'm able to be out on the field a couple hours before game time. Sometimes you see the guys warm up.

You don't see them, you know, not in pads. And he, he, A plus is the eye test for sure. When you see him, he looks different. I mean, he's, you know, really long arms, really, you know, he's not six, three and a half or whatever. The other thing that that kind of I thought of when I saw it, I was like, man, this guy could probably carry 295 pounds pretty easily. He's like lean. He looks a little like a power forward, you know, not like a legit NBA, you know, like a big power forward, right, kind of thing.

I talked to Tim Derruder, who's a defense coordinator for tech. And he, remember, he was just at Oregon. So he had Kavon Tibado and he had some guys. I mean, DJ Johnson is another one. I'm curious what you guys think of, too, different kinds of players. But, you know, he was like, yeah, there's a lot of stuff you can do with him. He was very effusive in how he talked about him. I think personality-wise, he's probably a little different than Kvon, too.

But he was impressive, not just impressive, like watching him move around in the free game and what kind of frame he has. But then certainly, as you guys saw, there's some wow plays he puts on film. And I'm curious to see how he gets used because so much of, you know, I'm running into a lot of personnel people before games. and there are certain players and even players that maybe I'm asking them about who aren't at my game, Colizia Cancy is definitely one where it's like, oh, it's going to be interesting to see how, like what kind of system he goes into or how they use them. And I feel like so much of that is like, especially with DeLy lineman, you know, it's like, okay, what kind of system are you going into?

How are they going to use them where the value is? But he's really interesting player. Well, and I think that's part of what makes him so appealing is because like you said, he could fit a lot of different systems. I mean, they've run a lot of three-man odd fronts at tech, and it doesn't matter if he's head up over the tackle, on the inside shoulder. He has that power to go right through him.

He's shock in his hands. I wouldn't call him necessarily refined or crafty as a pass rusher, but he'll use different moves. You see a swipe rip, you see a cross-rip that's pretty effective. And so he's so long. And you see those long striven. too. So he's faster than you think. He'll chase down players from the backside, which is really impressive to see. And so right now, he is second in all of college football, just ahead of Will

Anderson in total pressures this year with 47. So this is a guy that has the traits, looks the part, plays the part, still has growth potential, like you mentioned, Bruce, and the production is showing up. Even though he doesn't get a lot of just, you know, pin your ears back, you know, beat the tackle one-on-one, he's still fine. ways to get to the backfield and affect what they're doing. Yeah, and I think the difference, and this is not a slight on Will Anderson, but he is the guy who everybody knows about now, right, you know, on that defense. So, you know, you're going to get all the focus of what they're doing.

And I think that's interesting to see how he can still be productive, because sometimes you will see a guy and they will put up huge numbers as a sophomore. And you're expecting like the TFLs to go crazy again because they just did and the players is probably better, but the other team is probably more mindful of him. And to see him still be that kind of impact guy at the point and do some of the things he can do, really interesting player. I'd be curious, you know, like who is the four eye you see in college football right now? I was like, is there a separate ranking of those guys and where does he fit in that?

Because, I mean, man, there's a lot of, there's a lot probably NFL D-Line coaches or what would be excited about with him. There's no doubt. And Texas Tech, not known for. for defense, obviously, but I looked it up. They've never had a top 20 pick on defense. You know, offense, you know, Mahomes, Crabtree, they've had high picks. But on defense, they've never had a top 20 pick.

This guy's got a chance to be their first one. He came in at number 12 on my top 50 list. Jaze, yeah, a pretty impressive player. Yeah, I remember back this before you guys, I think it was Gabe Rivera. He ended up, he was a, I think he was a first round pick of the Steelers, but then he had a horrific bar accident. never played. Then a few years, just a few years ago, they had Jordan Brooks.

Jordan Brooks. Yeah, that's what I was going to say. He was the 27th overall pick to the Seahawks. Yeah. Rivera was 21. So that's why I said top 20, yeah. It's pretty hard. So it is interesting because this is a different position.

And like people say defensive end and you got to remember that defensive end means a couple of different things. If you're a defensive end in an even front, that's your classic edge rusher six foot five two hundred sixty pounds you know really fast giovon curse that that type of person the state of florida was like back when you know maybe a little past you andy but oh yeah florida state had renard wilson and and andre wadsworth and well there was it morn was coming up and at roland seymour and they had guys like that probably probably like honestly Brian Burns like a precursor to Brian.

Yes. Or Jermaine Johnson even, I think, is kind of that guy, even though he didn't really play, he didn't play that role at Georgia. He played it at Florida State. But what we're talking about is an even front defense event. So this is a person who plays four eye, which is inside eye of the tackle, or five technique, which is head up on the tackle on the other side. And you've got to be bigger.

Like, in the NFL, you need to be 285, 290 to play this position. effectively. I think it's a really different skill set. And that's what watching Tyree Wilson, I was like, good Lord, because he looks like the Kavon, Tibido, you know, even front type guy. But he could be very disruptive coming through the middle of the offensive line rather than coming around the edge. Yeah, I think there's been some interesting prospects who come through either Houston. You know, we've seen Peyton Turner. I'm trying to remember who was the guy, who was our guy last year, who was probably raw, but maybe more explosive. Logan Hall. Yeah, like there are guys like like, I'm not saying this is Marcus Davenport. There are guys who did not go to Texas or Texas

A&M who are really interesting like D-Line guys who have kind of developed and or blossomed. And I think it's like, okay, what's the next step in their development, you know, along the lines like, that because I definitely think we've seen some of them. Yeah, it is going to be fun to see where Wilson ends up getting picked because it's a need specific thing too. You know, it's going to be a team that that's, you run a primarily odd front defense. Now, I do think if he can really hold 290, that offers some positional versatility where if you want to do some even front looks, you could even put him at three technique. And then you have some rush up the middle that would be pretty nasty. So I, especially on a passing down. So,

I am excited to see what he does. But Bruce, because of your job with Fox and getting to go to the big noon Saturday games, you've gotten to see Michigan a ton. I have some question about several different Michigan guys because Mazzie Smith was number one on your freaks list. And if you want to regale us with some of those testing numbers, by all means do. But then I want to get your take on what you've seen from him in person on the field this year and does it back it up. Yeah. I mean, he is super-explan.

and powerful. And when you watch him, there's some times where you see, and the most dominant delinement I've seen, you know, as a sideline reporter, and this is a, this is like basically a six or seven year window. It's not a 20 year window, but Vita Vaya was Vita Valle was just throwing guy, 300 pounds around like he was throwing stew around. You know, just like these are, he, it was incredible to watch what he did in the act. That would be Stuart Mandel, our, our co- worker at the athletic who is not 300 pounds. No, and probably has like 23-inch arms.

But this is like just insane to see what he was doing. And Washington State had pretty big alignment. And so when you watch Mazi, what's different, you know, it's not fair to compare it. Like Vita V has much longer. Mazi is, I think, is somewhere in the middle of that and Duran Payne, you know, just incredibly strong and powerful, moves well. he's disruptive. I think he plays, you know, everything I've heard inside the program has been, you know,

they love his leadership, they love what he brings. He really sets the tempo up front. Again, he's another guy where it's like, okay, what kind of system do you run? You know, I know he's in Dane's top 50. I don't know if you're that kind of guy. Does somebody take you in the top 20 no matter what you do at the combine, right? And this guy, I think will vertical jump. in the mid-30s at 335.

He made vertical jump 35 inches. You know, his shuttle time is going to be crazy. He, you know, he may bench two and a quarter 45 times. You know, like, he's just a remarkable athlete, and he's got the intangibles. So I think he's really interesting. You see other guys around him, you know, like, who have emerged as really good players in the D-line, like after Aiden Hutchinson moved on, they're not as good as him. but there are other guys who have really raised their game and I think he's a big part of that and so

it's a really interesting program you know I know I think your number five guy Dane is a is a Olu in the in the big 10 who's really impressive when you see him there Olu is much older I think he's probably four years older but came from is the center from any transfer from Virginia this is Olu Olu Atimi who might be the best pickup out of the transatlini who might be the best pickup out of the for Portal this year other than maybe Jamir Gibbs? Or Jaden. Jane Danes. Okay.

Yeah, okay. Jane Dales is it okay. All right. That's fine. That's fair. But he is really, really good, right? This was a great offensive line last year.

I think it might be an even better offensive line. Like the thing that, that Andy asked me about seeing Michigan, so we've had them four times in, you know, in person, they are really physical. You know,

I don't know where the other offensive linemen they have get drafted when they come out. You know, the exact centers are, you know, I think these guys are all going to play in the NFL. I don't know how high up. Like, their Olu, I think is really good.

I don't know where, you know, like where a center goes. You know, we saw that last year with a great one, albeit a, you know, a shorter, smaller one, you know, from Iowa, who, you know, as we're taping us, I watched the Monday night game last night. He's doing really well in Baltimore, you know, but really good player. And the things that I think are different about this Michigan team, than last year, they're much deeper at receiver. but Ronnie Bell's back.

They have a lot of speed. You see Donovan Edwards, I think, is actually underrated because he's so versatile and they do so much and he's really dynamic. I think Blake Corum is a really good, really good running back in terms of just his, he's just really quick in and out of the hole. He's powerful. You see him in person. He's like a fire hydrant. It's a really interesting team because I think they don't get enough credit for how athletic they are. because they are being measured against Ohio State.

And Ohio State probably has more five stars where Michigan has a lot of four stars. But I think because of the way they practice, because of the way they have developed players, there's a lot of really good football players on this team at different stages of their development. And so when I see Mazi, Mazi is grown man. He's like the alpha of the place. But then there's other guys who are not far from that. I think you got a really interesting mix there. Well, and with Mazi, I mean, you meant that the numbers are crazy.

But one thing I really appreciate with him is the athletic endurance. I mean, he's, he doesn't come off the field. He's averaging 42 snaps, defensive snaps per game. And that, I think that's something that does not, that goes overlooked. Like Jordan Davis last year was a first round pick. He is a freak. But he averaged about 22 snaps for Georgia last year. And now for the Eagles, he's not.

He's only playing kind of the same number of snaps. He's not playing his high volume snaps. Now, when he's on the field, he's just dominant. But because he doesn't play a high number of snaps, that was my one concern with Jordan Davis. With Mazzu Smith, now he's not the same size or type of player as Jordan Davis. But I think to be able to stay on the field like that and not have to worry, oh, we got to get this guy off the field to passing down or, you know, whatever.

That's something that will certainly help him come draft time when teams are breaking these guys down and say, okay, we could use a nose, we could use a one technique. This is what this guy brings to the table. It's not just these freaky numbers. It's definitely showing up. And like you said, it's helping Mike Morris on the edge. It's helping that transfer. They got number 18, Anoma, who's.

Yeah, that guy, I mean, the characters will have to figure that part out. But just talking on the field, so explosive. I mean, that guy was, and he joined a team in August, right? Yeah. Yeah. joined the team in August and it's interesting that guys were taping this. I have a big story that I worked on and basically about the guy who kind of created the culture there and helped Jim Harbaas. Jim Harbaugh's right hand man, Bif Poji. And he was an extremely successful high school coach in Baltimore.

And he had Blake Corum. He had four kids who were on this Michigan team now. And a Yabi was one of those kids. And Biff's a huge reason why he ended up transferring because he started out as a five-star was at Alabama, played some, you know, maturity was kind of all over the place a little bit with him. Went to Houston. It did not go well there. Did not fit. Transferred to Tennessee Martin played and was, you know, as a solid player, ended up graduating and then ended up getting to Michigan as a grad transfer right before, you know, right as training camp was going. And so his best football is ahead of him. You know, he did. We had, we had the Indiana game they played at IU. And he had, I think he had two sacks. He was, he definitely showed up big in that game.

And I think you see some flashes as just a situation guy. And I think that'll continue to go. But, you know, going back to your point about Mazi, I think Mazi played last year like 20 pounds less than he is now. So the fact that he's like 333 or 335 and he's playing 40 plus snaps. And at a high level, you watch him. He plays hard. And that's not that common. for, you know, big dudes. So, I mean, for that, I think it's, you know, I don't know what that is going to be worth in terms of first, second round, depending on the team.

But I think that bodes well for whoever gets them, that they will get somebody who's going to work and it is bringing in tangible to him in addition to, you know, shocking strength and explosiveness. So Bruce, growing up in Ohio, sorry, real quick, living in Ohio, the Ohio State Michigan is always the game of the year. I mean, but just from my first of the year. an evaluation perspective, I cannot wait to see that Michigan defensive line go against that Ohio State offensive line. I think Ohio State has the best tackle tandem in the country.

I mean, Paris Johnson at left tackle has been great. Zero sacks, zero penalties this year. DeWan Jones have been blown away by that right tackle, how good he has developed, how much he has played compared to last year, how much better he has played. And he's still young. He's just turned 21 years old. I think it's an important factor with him. and then on the inside, Whippler at center and, you know, they've got decent guard play. So seeing that Michigan defensive line go up against that Ohio State offensive line, which we know was such a factor last year when Michigan won that game.

So seeing that this year is going to be, I think, the story of the game. Yeah, well, we had the Penn State game and Penn State has one really athletic tackle and one okay. The center is a good player. Now, I don't know, like I know Ohio State really likes their center too, but that was a tough day for Penn State in the trenches. I mean, it was, you know, especially Michigan's O line, just really wore them down. It was almost like Penn State broke. I'm not saying Ohio State's will because when you see, when you see Jones in person, you know,

he's just a massive man. He almost looks like he's in like a costume that he's that big. A giant human costume. Yeah. Seriously, because before the game, it's an 89-inch wingspan. It's just unheard of. It's crazy. Yeah.

Before the game, they, so I was by their offensive linemen at Penn State. And so I'm blanking on the left guard, who's not a small man either, but he's definitely not got the length of Paris. But you watched him kind of them fire each other up. And I was like, I was like, well, Penn State's going to be in for a long day if this offensive line is going to play with this kind of intensity for four quarters. But you just look at how big the tackles are. And look, I don't know, you know, Petit Ferrer was impressive athletically.

But I feel like the, I feel like, you know, Paris is probably a notch above even that, right, in terms of what he's bringing. And Petit Ferreira was a was what, a five star Andy? I mean, he's from here. Yeah, he was a Tampa guy. Yeah, he was a five star recruit. And it's starting in the NFL right now. and I saw him starting on Sunday night football the other night.

So I do a question for both of you, though. I don't know how much either of you got to see the Ohio State Offensive line against Northwestern over the weekend. There were some absolute like must get rundown plays where they got just jacked up by a Northwestern D-Linman. It did not look good. And it really worries me for them for the. Michigan game because it feels like Michigan is built to win in the trenches against Ohio State. And I, as good and as athletic as Ohio State's offensive line is, I'm not sure we won't

see something similar to what happened to them against Michigan last year. Well, let me, let me spin that a little bit to both you and Andy being as an old offensive line in yourself. I'm curious how you think of this and see it. But like, there is a feeling that that Ohio State kinds of. wants to go sideways more than it wants to go right at people. And I think people in the Big Ten talk about that enough, where I'm sure Ohio State's heard that.

And at some point, there is going to be a challenge made to these big athletic people. I don't know if it's a switch you can turn on, you know, a given week. But it would be interesting to see because in person, Mayan Williams, it's almost looks like he looks, this is probably not fair to him, but he almost looks like Ironhead's brother who is at his old son. Cam Hayworth's brother who's at, you know, it was Conner. He played at Michigan State, yeah. Yeah, it was a really good all-around athlete.

He talked about a Steelers too. Yeah, really good all-around athlete, really good ball skills, but just did not like, you know, he's almost like a bowling ball. And mine Williams, it's like a bowling ball coming at you. He was a guy who, you know, I think Ohio State beat Iowa State 4, and maybe he's a 4-6 guy are coming out, whereas Travion can roll. And you're seeing the wow highlights in some ways. And I think Travion's an awesome back.

But I wonder if the mentality with Maya and Williams for that offense may be better suited to what Andy is hinting at or saying outright, which is like you've got to go out. Yeah, you got to push people around. Like watch Michigan's offensive line. They push people around. Blake Quorum is not, Blake Quorum has very good vision. Like if you, if the whole breaks open on a wide zone and it's outside and he has to go outside the hash, he'll do it. But he's also not afraid to just slam it right up in there. And they're not afraid to, you know, just mall you at the point of attack,

move the line of scrimmage back three or four yards. And Blake Corum is getting three yards before he's touched. I don't see that with Ohio State. That's fair. I mean, because, yeah, Ryan Williams, yeah, Blake Corum, I think, has arguably the best line of scrimmage vision in college football. He is so good at reading quickly and making his moves. Lyon Williams is he's not a guy that will consistently string moves together.

You know, that's not his strength as a player. He's a guy you want rolling downhill, and he can shake guys along the way or go over them. But he doesn't have that start-stop coordination that Ohio states, you know, when they use them on some of those stretches or outside runs. And credit to Northwestern number 99, Atabare. He's a senior. He's an interesting prospect because he's got a weird, not weird, unique body type because he's like six one and a half two 70 and they play him as a we all got

unique body type stain that's that's that's that's all of our problems you get older game so but he's they use him as a three technique uh but he's a little bit of a tweener but i mean he he was consistently making plays uh in the backfield winning the point of attack not allowing uh you know the guard to reach his outside shoulder so he's shutting down these plays uh he played his tail off and so i that that tape alone, I think, is going to get him, you know, some more consideration. Teams going back to the tape and saying, maybe he's not a late round pick. Maybe someone we consider a little bit earlier. But, no, I think that your point is fair.

We saw it in last year's game. Obviously, Michigan's defensive line, that was the strength where, you know, there's no Hutchinson or no job. So I'm not as worried about C.J. Stroud getting just destroyed. But I am worried about them not being able to run the ball. when they need to or use the run to set up the pass. Yeah, that's fair. And I mean, it's fair to say that Trevion Henderson was out against Northwestern.

My Ann Williams coming off an injury. So, you know, I think that there were other factors going on there. But to your point, I think it's very valid that they could not just blow that Northwestern defensive line off the football and impose their will. So it'll be interesting. And that game, I do have to mention this too. When it comes to C.J. Stroud, I've got a lot of tweets about how C.J. Stroud couldn't throw it. Throw that game away. Throw the tape away for C.J. Straub. It does not matter. 38 mile an hour win. You could be Dan Marino. You're not throwing him. No. I talked to a scout that was there. And there was no room in the press box. So he was on the field for that game. He said it was like nothing he's ever experienced. He said they had to have people by the pylons because they kept blowing over. They wouldn't stay up. You couldn't tell which way the wind was going. because the flags were all the way around the polls.

So, like, it was just, he said that the game will not matter. It's something that for C.J. Stroud's evaluate now for offensive line and, you know, for other positions, absolutely. But for the quarterback, it's a non, it's a tape they won't even factor in. I actually think it is somewhat helpful for C.J. Stroud because when his team needed him to, he ran the ball very well. That's not something I expect from him. No.

Yeah. I mean, so. By the way, I do want to point out, Like, so our Atabare, he was a freaksless guy. And he, there are guys who you feel like it's like, I don't know if they look like the cult's old Robert Mathis kind of, you know, like where they're, okay, how are we going to use this guy where he's six one ish, 280. You know, like he was top 30 on our freaks list this year because, you know, some crazy shuttle numbers and really, you know, great agility. Like he's a guy athletically who could play on any team. It's just in that slop, you know, and I feel like Northwestern's had some of these guys.

Obviously, everybody knows about their offensive tackle. But, you know, it was, I think that's the kind of game watching it that Pat Fitzgerald loves. It's like, all right, we're going to play in soup. Let's see how good you guys are in soup. But I kind of think Jim Harbaal likes soup. Like he thinks chicken's a nervous bird, but non-chicken-based soups, I think he's good with. So before we leave the Michigan topic, I do want to get. Your take, Bruce, and a little more from you, Dane, on Blake Corm.

Because we talk about him in college football in context of the Heisman Trophy and, you know, can he win it? But I'm curious about him as draft prospect. We haven't talked about him all season as a draft prospect. And I'm curious where he falls. Well, and I'll be, yeah, interested with what you think, Bruce. But I know for me, he did not make my top 50, but the next day I did have an article said, 15 players that just missed that I hated leaving out, and Coram was on that list. I hated leaving him out of there.

Like I said, the line of scrimmage vision is so impressive. His decision-making, we talk about decision-making for quarterbacks, not enough in terms of talking about decision-making for running backs. He's so good at the line of scrimmage, following his blocks, anticipating where those holes are going to be quick, quick decision-makers, and he runs so low to the ground that he's able to bounce off tacklers who are not wrapping him up. He's got the footwork so he can cut, hit it without slowing down. His movements just have this energy that you feel like he's going to make something happen.

And so for those reasons, even though I don't think he's going to have a great 40-yard dash, you know, there are things you can pull holes in his game. But I still think that he's going to translate pretty well and be a guy that can be a nice part of a backfield. I think this is a really interesting running back crop because typically you see a load, it's loaded talent from like the SEC. But when I look at it, you know, in the in the big 12, obviously Bijan is a big back who can do everything.

There's some wow in his game. Everybody raves about his character. Kendrae Miller's blown up at TCU. He was actually in the same recruiting class there as Zach Evans. And the guys there really, I mean, you see the balance that kind of that jumps out. I don't know where he would get drafted, you know, if he comes, you know, if he does come out. And then the other one in that league, and I don't know what he is in the NFL because of his dimensions, but I think he's an NFL player with Deuce Vaughn. To me, Deuce Vaughn's the most exciting player in college football. And so you have those guys, you know. If only there was an undersized Kansas State back that had a good NFL career that we could compare him to.

And a long NFL career, no less. Yeah. Yeah. And so you have those guys. I like Corum. Because I just think getting in and out of the hole, I think a lot of that translates. Now, is he a, you know, like there's guys who kind of really pop in the NFL. You watch like, I feel like a bunch of them played at Memphis recently, you know, you know, where you see Tony Pollard, some of the stuff he's doing with the Cowboys. I just think Blake Horm will be a guy who will be one of two somewhere and he will put up really good numbers and people go, yeah, I'm not surprised he's, you know, doing well. Like I don't know if he would, you know, a couple of years ago, Clyde Edwards, Heilars, you know, kind of snuck in the end of the first round off a huge year at, you know, at LSU to go to the Chiefs.

I don't know if Blake Corum, because they do a lot with Donovan Edwards in the past game. So I wonder if some of that obscures like Donovan Edwards could be a receiver for them. But then, you know, some of the guys on the West Coast, like I love Zach Charbonnet's game. He was at Michigan with them. And he's a bigger back. He's every bit of 220. He's gotten better as a receiver. And I think what you see with him is really good vision.

And he's in a really interesting offense. And so there are guys out there. I don't know if outside of Bejon, I don't know if anyone said, oh, yeah, that's going to be a first round pick because we know what the NFL thinks about running backs now, you know? And it's just a weird place where if you had told me midway through last year, who's like the most talented running back in college football, I would have said either Trayvon Henderson or Bijon, but certain guys have a hard time staying in a rhythm.

And what I think in college especially, and I think what we see is Blake Quorum is a running back who just runs with a tremendous amount of confidence. And I would be surprised if he doesn't turn out to be a starting NFL running back at some point because he's doing now. It's funny you mentioned Memphis because I actually wrote down a better version of Derell Henderson. as one of the comps that fits. So that makes total sense. I think when you look at this running backs, Bejohn, obviously, he's going to go early somewhere, probably top 20. But then Jamir Gibbs, to me, if he doesn't go in the first round, something's wrong. Something. I know he's going to be about 200, 205 pounds. But his feet are so impressive. Watching the LSU tape from the weekend. You just expect something big to happen every time he touches the football. I think him as a

pass catcher is really impressive. Devin A-chain from A&M is going to be really interesting because we know he's going to run really, really well with his track background. And that speed is something you see on the football field. But, you know, he's listed at 185 pounds. How is that going to factor in? I think Zach Evans, too, you know, at Ole Miss. That sets another one. So this is a really interesting running back class. You mentioned Charbonnet, who is, I think in terms of, you had a great story on this, Bruce, I think, maybe even last year with Chip and how he's just a great fit for that offense. What he wants. Exactly. And I think you see that with the vision, the patience. Now, he's not the dynamic athlete that is going to get him drafted in a top 50, but in that 51 to 100 range,

a team's going to get a really good back with Sharbonne. And then one of the running back I wanted to mention, speaking of the Big 12, is Eric Gray at Oklahoma, the Tennessee transfer, who is now able to be the guy for the Sooners. He's doing a lot of good things. And there's some buzz for him among scouts as a guy that could go somewhere

in the top four rounds. Can I ask you guys that would go back a little bit on Gibbs for a second? The guys who were like had some, you know, total wow players to me when I watched them in college, who weren't the biggest backs. Certainly one of them was Swift, who went, you know, it was at Georgia and there was like a lot of, there just had a lot of juice in him, right?

And, you know, I know he's been at the lions and sometimes he flashes. I mean, is that, you know, is Jamar Gibbs a better, better version of that? I don't know. I'm asking. I, so I, I think Gibbs, needs to go to an offense where they are, they really like to throw to receivers,

or throw to backs out of the back field. Like, actually, you know, he's probably going to go too high in the draft for this, but like what Jacksonville's figured out with Travis Etyen, like as a compliment to him would be tremendous, but I don't, I don't think Jacksonville is going to use that sort of draft capital because you'd have to pick him probably in the second round, or maybe the late first.

So I don't think they're going to do that. But if you want like an every down back who you can throw to, that's your guy. And you're not going to pick in the top 10 and take Bijat. So I think that it just depends on how much you like to throw to your backs. Like what the chiefs wanted to do with Clyde. I think it's very similar to Clyde coming out of college. Because Clyde was really important to the 2019 LSU passing game. He was kind of the key to everything.

We'll put all five guys out. and go good luck dealing with Cly. Yeah. I mean, and especially this year, because Alabama has no receivers who can separate, Gibbs is that much more important. And actually, I learned this Michael Casagrano, who covers Alabama for AL.com,

put this out on Sunday, and it blew my mind. The longest pass play this season for Alabama was Jace McClell and the other back taking a dump off 65 yards. That's the longest play all season. Gibbs leads the team in receiving. He led the team in receiving on Saturday against LSU. I mean, he's a guy that the passing game is essential to what he does.

I do think that the mini Alvin Kamara comparison, because Kamara is a little bit bigger, but if you're talking about maybe a smaller version of that, I do think that fits with Gibbs. Yeah, I mean, the people who had him at Georgia Tech thought he could win the Heisman at Alabama. and I don't think as disappointing as that offense has been, you can't blame the quarterback and you can't blame him, right?

No, you blame the receivers because now Harold, the transfer from Louisville got hurt, just started playing, so you've not gotten to see him too much. But like Jermaine Burton coming over from Georgia, I remember everybody who doesn't follow Georgia closely when that happened was like, oh my God, Alabama got Jermaine Burton. And all the people that you were like, oh, no, we lost Germain Burton. Oh, what are we going to do?

And like, you've seen it. There is no Devante Smith, no Jalen Waddle, no Jerry Judy, no Calvin Ridley, no Amari Cooper. There's no, and we've been so spoiled by that at Alabama the last few years. It is jarring to see them unable to have explosive pass plays. Dan, can I throw another running back day match? I'm just curious what you think of him, just because he was a guy that, you know, Pat Narduzi told me about for a while. Is he a Bannaconda?

You know, he's been at times as productive. Like, I mean, he definitely looks like an NFL running back when you catch him on the, you know, against maybe an average team in the ACC. He definitely seems like he's, there's some wow to him too. Yeah, no, there definitely is. And he's a guy that, I think, has put himself in a position where he's going to have an NFL decision to make after this year. But, yeah, I think you take, you take away, you know, his full.

or five best games and you're thinking, okay, why can't this guy start to the next level with his ability to hit the hole? He's got a good mix of quickness, a little bit of power. I mean, he's got an all-around type of game that you think will translate. So that's another good one. And, you know, I think we, just for the fact of the topic, mentioned Sean Tucker at Syracuse, what he could be at the next level or even. He can't, like, if I'm not mistaken, he's only a second year of sophomore, right? Sean Tucker?

Yeah, I thought he was. No, he's a junior. Or he's draft eligible. Oh, yeah. I thought he was a sophomore too. No, he's a third year guy. All right. Well, there you go.

He's a third year guy. So he's a guy we'll be talking about as, if he declares, we talk about him as someone that, he did not make my top 50. I didn't really consider him that high, but in the 51 to 125 range, somewhere in there. He'll be, you know, dukeying it out with guys. like Corum and Eric Gray and Charbonnet and those guys. And I think, you know, maybe Chase Brown.

Chase Brown into the conversation. Exactly what I was about to say. What he's done this year, Chase Brown deserves to be mentioned. Coming into the year, Brown was viewed as maybe a late round pick, but what he's done out of the backfield catching the football, you know, his ability. He will test really well. He will test really well. Yeah, right.

And he's, you know, he's small or he's short. But he's not exactly small. I mean, he's probably 5-9, 5-9 and a half. But he looks like he's, you know, pretty well put together, 212, 2-15, which is good to see. And it's a little like quorum, actually. You know, they're just pat in there. It was shorter back.

Maybe that's like a, I'm not saying they play like this, but kind of built like Emmett Smith, maybe. Right. And it was good to see Kenny McIntosh have a nice game against Tennessee. He's another one where I think the passing game is really going to factor into his evaluation. He's a really good pass catcher at the backfield. He's got James Cook again.

Yeah. Well, and he actually has an NFL body. I mean, McIntosh, you know, his brothers were defensive linemen. And, you know, he's kind of got a little bit of that. He's around 210, 212. So he looks more of the part. Roshan Johnson at Texas, he could be a fourth round pick. And he's a backup.

He can be a little bit. Yeah. Special teams, everything, right. That's the guy inside the Texas program that the coaches taught. Like, that's the alpha of everything. You know, like, I'd be shocked if he, if he's not playing the NFL for 10 years because he's, he's super strong. He runs well. He can do everything.

And everybody talks about his character and his, you know, mental and physical toughness. Like, I don't know where he, where he goes in the draft, you know, but I'm, I'd be surprised if, you know, he could be the guy who the Patriots play at like five different positions on both of the ball. Well, they got to decide if they're going to take DJ Johnson first. That's speaking of guys who play on both sides of all. But, Dan, I wanted to get back to your 15 guys that you wished you could have put in your top 50. Because there's one guy who I want to talk about, and he leads me to another discussion that you actually started on Twitter on Tuesday that I think is fascinating. Josh Downs at North Carolina. Unstoppable against Virginia on.

Saturday. 15 catches, 166 yards, a touchdown. North Carolina needed every bit of that because, again, North Carolina's defense is not that great. Their offense has to kind of do everything. They escape Charlottesville with a win. But Josh Downs as a prospect won, and then on Tuesday, you bring up, if Drake May were draft eligible, he might be QB1 in this class. And as fate would have it, on the day that this podcast is dropping, now we're recording on Tuesday. So I don't know if this is going to make definitely happen.

But if the trains run on time, we will have Drake May on our show on the Andy Staples show. And he's a guy. I keep telling people, look at his stats, take the names away and put the stats up. Drake May would probably be your favorite for the Heisman. Can we talk to this other discussion? Because I think it goes, it's real. Oh, yeah. Yeah, there's a little bit of both in there.

But yes, let's talk Josh Downs first. I mean, he doesn't, if you just walk down the street and you pass him, you wouldn't think anything of him, right? You know, he's not a big guy. He's listed, I think, at 5, 10, 175 pounds. But watching him play, he plays so much bigger than that. And it doesn't matter what route you want on the run. It's a vertical route. It's a fade.

It's some type of crosser where it's a catching go opportunity. He can do all of that. He tracks the ball really well. the ball doesn't hit the ground. I think he had 16 targets on Saturday. He caught 15 of them. There was just one that was just slightly off. And so this is a guy that you throw in his direction,

good things happen, both with his ability to gain separation, but then also after the catch, he's tough, he's fast. So, I mean, Downs was a guy that I hated leaving off my top 50, and there's a good chance he probably makes it on the next update. He's a good player. who would be, Dane, right now, the four draft eligible receivers you would have one through four, one through five? So I think at one, I'm probably putting in TCU, you could quit in Johnston, another one of you greet guys. He's another one who passes the eyeball test.

He was $1.95 last. He was 2.15 now. And he was banged up in our game. Like he has, he rolled his ankle two weeks ago, played through it. And then beginning of the game, tweaked it. He was out the whole game. I would have been interested to see because Texas Tech actually has really big, long defensive backs. And I think they're guys who are 20, 24 draft guys, maybe.

They're probably mid-round guys, but they're pretty good athletes. And I think they were going to try to press him. And how would he do against the press? I think that was a question mark that I think people there had. But I definitely get why he could be the first receiver to go. And he's a difficult evaluation, right, for what you just mentioned. And a lot of times these Big 12 receivers, you know, you're asking yourself the same questions. Like, what about when he has to face press?

What about when he has to face better corners? You know, that's something that you worry about with Quentin Johnson. But I think that Kansas tape really swayed some doubters. I mean, whether it's tracking the football, whether it seemed like he's making the first guy miss after every single catch. And it's not with just size. It's with he's got some elucidness to him as well. So right now he's he's the top guy, but, you know, it's fluid. Jordan Addison right after him.

He's banged up right now, but we think he's back pretty soon, right, Bruce? Yeah, I would be surprised if he is not playing at least next week for the UCLA game. Both he and Mario Williams, who's a really talented young receiver who transferred in from OU. Another guy kind of from Andy's area. He, they both missed the last weeks. I suspect they will be back at, you know, probably at the very least. by you still like. Where does Jackson Smith and Jakeba fall, Dane?

He's not really been able to play all season. Yeah. He's next. And look, I think that we've been so spoiled the last few years with receivers. You know, Jamar Chase being a top five pick. And then last year with Drake London, Alave and Garrett Wilson, and we had six receivers going the top 25. So, you know, this year it's just kind of assumed, okay, well, whoever's the top

receiver, he's going top 10. And I think that's the disconnect with Jackson Smith and Jig's. but where he's just not viewed that way by NFL scouts. They like him. Jackson Smith and Jigna is a really good player. They just don't view him as the same way they viewed Olaveh or Garrett Wilson. So Smith and Jigba, even though it's been a bummer, he's missed this season, I don't think it's necessarily hurt him from a draft evaluation.

Although it is a little bit of a missed opportunity. It would have been nice to see him hopefully run some more routes on the outside because he's been really strictly an inside guy for that team. But, I mean, C.J. Stroud is, he's played with a lot of good receivers. he calls Jackson Smith and Jigba the best receiver route running-wise that he's ever played with, and that says something. So Smith and Jigba, I think, is right there, right after those two. He's in that late first, early second round discussion. And then the next two guys, if I'm doing a top five, are really wild cards. That's Jalen Hyatt from Tennessee, who has really exploded this year.

There's a lot of missing parts to his evaluation in terms of him as an underneath receiver, him running different branches of the route tree, but he has legit low 4-3 speed, and he has trust in his hands. And those two things I think are going to get him drafted pretty high. And then Kishon Boutte from LSU, who, I mean, he's tough to figure out. He's probably a slot only. That's at least where he does most of his damage.

And that's a little bit of a question mark. And he has the ability to be a really productive pro. It's just, is he going to get there? Is he going to fully realize that potential? So he's a tough one to figure out. And so those will be top five. But even after that, you know, Rashid Rice from SMU and Cedric Tillman from Tennessee, Josh Downs.

I like A.T. Perry at Wake Forest. So it's a, even though I don't think we have a lock top 10 receiver this year, it's still a pretty good group. If Jackson Smith and Jigba goes out, and this is not a knock on you at all. If he goes outside to top 25, he will be the steel of the track. he's going to be a long time pro. There's no doubt, right? I mean, because his ability to get open, his ability to catch the football,

he's got some juice after the catch. I mean, I agree. Especially if they use him in the right way and just let him be a slot receiver and just, he'd be a guy if I have a fancy football draft, the PPR League. I'm looking to get Jackson Smith and jig. He's going to rack up those catches. I agree. It's been a bummer we haven't been able to see him this year.

Hopefully, I don't know if this is going to be a Nick Bosa situation, where he's just like, okay, at some point you got to shut it down and just start prepping for the draft or if he's really going to push. Because, you know, hamstrings are one of those things where if you push it too early and you're going to do more damage. And so it's going to be interesting with him to see if we get to see him at all next few weeks. All right. It's time to have the Drake Bay conversation because you said it, Dane, on Tuesday.

And I, my eyes kind of popped because this is a soapbox I've been on for about a week about, hey, look, if you've done, look at Drake May's stats, compare to everybody else's. You'd have him in your Heisman conversation. And it's interesting because he actually plays for a team that still has a chance to make the playoff. This is not a case where a guy plays for a terrible team and is just putting up huge numbers. But, and this is a fair criticism, he's probably not playing as good at defenses as C.J. Stroud or Hennon Hooker.

I also think Jalen Carter should be considered for the Heisman, but that's just me. But let's talk Drake May and what you've seen out of him because I realize he's not eligible for this year's draft. And there may be some people yelling at their device right now. Like, no, talk about the guys this year. You may need a quarterback next year. So let's talk about Drake May. There's nothing more annoying. I know.

Next year's quarterback class is so much better. We hear that almost every year. I get it. But I do think it was true. last year, and I do think it could be true this year. Oh, this year's definitely better than last years, yeah. Yeah, exactly. So, but when you look at next year and you look at Drake May and Caleb Williams, Caleb Williams is legit, and I'll be eager to get Bruce's take on those guys too. But in fact, okay, does Anthony Richardson take a big step in his development? What does

Quinn Ewers look like a year from now, which is more experienced? So next year's quarterback class is pretty promising. But with Drake May, maybe it's the number 10 that's throwing me off, but he looks like Justin Herbert out there. It is tall, not, you know, a little lanky, but a big time arm, he plays so natural. Like everything, everything, all the movements, the throws, he's

not laboring at all. Remember, his brother is Luke May who didn't start North Carolina in football. He started North Carolina in basketball, which means pretty damn good basketball player. There's a lot of genes in this family. Dad played football in North Carolina. Drake May was originally committed to

Alabama, flipped to, you know, background flipped into North Carolina. And he's one that I don't think the folks who, you know, who listen to this feed who don't follow college football as closely, that's a name they might not have heard very much. You will hear that name a ton in the next few weeks and a lot next offseason. Three quick things. First of all, I've gone to me as you said that, Andy.

Maybe the Twitter narrative of the player, the quarterbacks that Matt Brown didn't recruit at Texas. at North Carolina should be the quarterbacks that he flipped away from some big school. Yes. Obviously, Sam Hal. All from Florida State and getting Drake May away. Those are programs saving things for him at North Carolina. The second thing I would ask you guys, and I've seen more Justin Herbert in person than I've seen.

The only time I think I've seen Drake May in person might have been at an only 11 workout, I think. but is his do you think there's as much juice in his arm like Justin Herbert has a has an electric arm yeah do you I mean is it that caliber I'm asking I don't know I'm not sure if it is yeah it might not be I mean because yeah you're right Herbert is he's up there and it might not be quite that but I think it's close I don't think it's that far off where he can make any throw he wants and it could be a small window is an expiring window on a sideline he's not afraid to make it and he usually hits it. So I don't, I think it's fair to say maybe it's not quite there, but I do think it's

pretty close. Yeah. And the thing is Justin Herbert has one of the two or three best arms in the sport. So there is that too. Right. I would ask then the other part. And this is the part that kind of made my eyes bug a little bit. Wow.

This is a statement just because I was thinking if he, and again, I'm asking, I'm not saying I believe, I believe this. But right now, if you're telling me there is a better. NFL pro quarterback prospect in the 2024 class. I always have to feel like I'm thinking about it. It feels like we should have jet packs. Yeah, the 2024 draft class than Caleb Williams from what I've seen, from what I've heard from people there, like I don't know what he does it.

Like he moves exceptionally well. He's, you know, he's playing in a really good system. The ball jumps out of his hand. I mean, he's got pretty awesome stats too in terms of like taking care of the football. He does things. Like, I think there's probably some stuff that if you drill down deeper, that people would be like, all right, I don't know how I feel about maybe this a little bit or whatever. But there is so much, so much like stuff that's like jaw-dropping things that you see from

him consistently. Caleb Williams has kind of the Bryce Young qualities in terms of moving around in the pocket, except six one, two-fifteen. Yeah. Yeah. More explosive. I mean, both with his movements. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. If he takes off, it's a different story. Yeah. And the way the ball explodes off his arm. It's just a little bit different than Bryce Young. And that's going to be the big knock on Bryce Young is just the physical traits are not traditionally what you look for in a top five pick. But he's so special instinctively and with his vision and his poise that is that enough to overcome? Well, with Caleb Williams, you don't necessarily have to worry about some.

of those physical traits. And so I don't, I'm not, I haven't, I haven't studied enough of both those guys to say one's clearly better than the other. Like, so if you told me that Drake May and Caleb Williams was in this draft, I wouldn't have said that, you know, Drake May is a clear quarterback one because, you know, I think there's a debate there between those two guys. But among C.J. Stroud, Bryce Young, Will Levis, I think Drake May would, talking about upside, talking about the traits. I do think that Drake May would be maybe not the clear. or cut quarterback one, but I do think he'd be the top guy. Well, and what's interesting about Drake May and Caleb Williams this season,

both of them are having to make up for terrible defenses. And they're having, like every touchdown they throw, their team needs because their defenses stink. Yeah. Well, and it's, no, go ahead. Because that USC defense is, it's probably what's keeping them out of the playoff, I mean, legitimately keeping them out of the playoff hunt, right? Yeah, epically bad last year.

It's gotten a little better because it's got at least a little bit of cohesiveness to it. But it's horrible. Now, the flip side is if it was a seven-on-seven game, USC would be a huge problem for people because the receivers led by Addison are really good. And I don't know, you know, we didn't talk about him a couple of minutes ago about running backs. But Travis Dye has matured in to be a really, really good college running back. And he runs hard and he's very smart and he takes care of the ball. There were little concerns about that back in his Oregon days and early in his Oregon days.

And I just think he's a very good fit for what they do. But to me, like if Caleb was in this draft and I love Bryce Young, I am so impressed by what he does. and the only thing I would say about the dimensions and the physical, like people will say, oh, there's, you know, try to compare his game to Russell Wilson.

Russell Wilson is a big thick, or a short, thick guy. Who also was a star baseball player, like very different athletic profiles. It was like a scale down in the home's body. You know, where it's just wide and everything where that's not Bryce Young.

But, you know, it does, it's kind of encouraging. I'm not talking about like in the production that he's had, but like, Andy, what Kyler Murray looked like when he got to A&M and he wasn't really thick.

He was a, he was a smaller short guy too. He's not like he's kind of filled out some. I don't think his- Kyler's a lot thicker than Bryce Young now. He is, but maybe, you know, Bryce Young, maybe you're selling yourself to believe. Like I think Bryce Young, you know, if you can get past what he's going to weigh and worry about durability concerns, not toughness concerns, but just durability concerns. what he did. And I think he's smart enough and savvy enough to leave. All right. I know where I got to make business decisions.

Can I tell I, I'm more worried about C.J. Stroud taking hits than I am Bryce Young. Because I worry more about C.J. Stroud's pocket awareness. Like, he's going to get earhold. And Bryce Young is never going to get earhold. That's interesting. I mean, that's, and I mean, this, before we let you out of here, Bruce, I do want to hear your thoughts on, you know, these big three quarter. You know, you mentioned, just talked about Bryce Young, but CJ Straddenwell Levis, I mean, along those lines, how do you look at these quarterbacks? You know, going into the year, I thought CJ would have been because he's physically bigger than Bryce Young by a lot. He's 225 pounds. Bryce Young, I don't know if Bryce Young is 195 pounds.

You know, like he doesn't look yet. To me, Bryce Young plays quarterback better than those other guys. He sees the game. You know, and I've had these conversations with Ohio State coaches and been around them when they've had them with, you know, just because I'm on the field around some scouts, they rave about how smart and the intangibles for C.J. Stroud in those conversations, they will, they will go to bat for him in terms of what he brings intangibles wise. When you talk to some of the scouts, they're, you know, they will go to some practices and be like, they're not that. fired up about his arm. Like there are times where it's not a, you know, he's accurate and you want to see that. But I don't think there's like a man, this guy like is a, we're not talking, you know, let's put

Justin Herbert and the Holmes and those guys, you know, not even that. Like Joe Burrow didn't have an electric arm either. And he obviously led a team to a terrible franchise to a Super Bowl really fast. So does CJ have the command? Like to me, Joe Burrow was so mature and like such a coach on the field more so than any kid I've ever been around in college football. Again, pocket awareness too. I think of Joe Burrow in that SEC championship game against Georgia where Georgia was getting through. And Joe Burrow was just sidestepping, finding somebody, making stuff happen.

Joe Burrow was picking his teeth with SEC defensive players. Like it was like he was going in there like he was. playing at a game with like big big people who couldn't operate you know it's just like he made it was like unfair the way he kind of toyed with people at times i do think that cj even without jackson smith and jigba this year for most of the year has way way better talent around him to throw to and honestly has a way better system to operate in as a quarterback than then then bryce young does and certainly better than will levis like just and i'm not making excuses for Will Levis. No, we can we can make the offensive line excuse for Will Levis. I am perfectly

willing to accept that. There's a couple of things, Andy, though. Like, again, I don't know if I'm jumping on the table for Will Levis inadvertently here, but like, so Will Levis got to Kentucky after Spring Ball. He got a he got an O.C. there who really knew what he was doing and, you know, believed in him and Liam Cohen went really well as a, you know, his one year there. Without a spring ball, hit the ground running, had an awesome. some of year and then you then Liam Cohen got a chance to be the Rams offense coordinator or left and now we got another system coming in and even though it's not maybe not radically different it's a different feel so it's it's basically the third system he's had to kind of

you know absorb in a short amount of time and it has had a lot of ups and downs and so you know I think if somehow the NFL personnel people can not fall too much in love with Will Levis's physical toughness, the horsepower in his arm and his athleticism, that if he can end up in the second round somehow, you know, and go somewhere. And you give me a red shirt ear? Absolutely. He doesn't have to play right away. Yeah.

I think he would have, you know, I think it would help him a lot more than, oh, man, we got to ride him and he's going to be in a tough situation. And then all of a sudden, and I don't want to say he's this guy because I think he has a much better arm than this. but like he goes in the top 10 and ends up like having a Sam Darnold kind of run where he looks jittery and he never looks comfortable and then people worry about his accuracy and how well he sees it because he's just thrown into it into like a really messy situation and he's not comfortable. I'll give you comparison, Daniel Jones.

This is a guy who checks all the athletic boxes but didn't really drag his college offense to greatness. Like that Duke, those Duke teams were okay. They played in bowl games, but they didn't play in good bowl games. And I think that's, like, I'm looking at Levis's season this year. The Kentucky game was just an abject disaster. He was, he was bad in that game. His line was bad. And everything about that game was bad. Tennessee game. The Tennessee game. I'm sorry. Excuse me. But almost everything else. He's, you know, he's averaging 70% completions. He's, he's in the nines in yards per attempt in most games like he's not doing that badly he is trying to force some balls into windows he shouldn't but a lot of times that's because he's got to make something

happen because they can't do anything else so i'm i'm not as out on will levis as i thought i was i still think there's some hope for him but i'm with bruce don't throw him into a situation where he's got to be superman right away he poor man's jock allen well that that's what people are going to point to. That's the hope. That's it. Yeah, exactly. They're going to see Josh Allen, how much he's developed. They're going to look at Will Levin to say, well, with our coaching, we can do that.

And, you know, it's, especially once, once, you know, say if Levis goes to the senior ball, you know, that's, that's why Daniel Jones ended up in the top 10 is because of the senior ball. If Will Levis goes to the senior ball, I think he's going to look great. Obviously, throwing the ball in, you know, a practice setting like that. It's going to look

really, really good. And I'll be shocked if he's just going to top 10, top 12 at that point, which, you know, and that's a fair thing to point out, perception, if you're drafted that high, there's a certain perception that will follow you, uh, your entire career. Yeah. If Daniel Jones was a second round pick, we'd be like, oh, he's kind of a bargain. He'd also be a free agent right now or would have been a free agent this past year. Let him go to the Rams. I don't know if the Rams have any second round picks at this point. Let him go to the Rams. He can reunite with Liam. Yeah. They don't have to play him right away.

And I don't know how long Stafford is, you know, he may have to wait for four years for Stafford. don't know and NFL teams aren't waiting that long but let him go somewhere where it is it is like it is like what you said a redshirt ear and there's somebody who really is going to buy into him as opposed to like eh you know well and that's that's a situation like i was watching malik willis the other night and he makes a throw to the tight end down the seam and i'm like oh there's that arm there it is But I said this all last year. Do not pick Malik Willis if you think you need to start him this year. And I don't think Titans picked him in a spot where they thought, you know,

because obviously he's just replacing Ryan Tanahill because he's hurt. But I'm like, if Malik Willis gets enough time to develop, he might be a good NFL quarterback. Like it's potentially, with Levis, there's more tools to work with. So maybe. But don't throw him into a situation where you're going to wreck him right off the bat. And somebody has a real detailed plan. you know, I think it's awesome what the Ravens do. Like they have so much of a feel for a plan, a, you know, identity.

And Lamar is an amazing fit for what they do. And even you see like, I don't know if this is the right term of granular, but you see how like one of my favorite players to watch with, you know, in the last 10 years was Tyler Huntley. He was, he's as pound as tough as anybody. He was like, oh, right. Perfect backup for Lamar Jackson. Exactly.

Yep. You know, and there's some guys like that. We're like, okay, how would this fit if they just, you know, maybe got him in the fifth round. And I'm not saying, take a will love us out of this for a second. But it's like, you have to have somebody who goes in and says, all right, this kind of player, we are going to, we are really all in on. You can't just like, oh, he fell to us.

And now we're going to try to fit him into a different way. I mean, that's kind of what Russell was with the Seahawks. And it just so happened that when he got there, he's better than Matt Flynn. But it was like, we like this guy. We think he could be the guy in the future. So we're going to take him in the next. here in third round and see what happens. Bruce, and I'm going to apologize because I'm going to put you on the spot here.

And I did this to Andy two weeks ago. And I apologize if you heard this. And I wrote about it, my outlier article. But in the last 25 years, this has only been, this is going back to Bryce Young. There's only two quarterbacks who have been drafted out of 300 quarterbacks that were both under six foot and under 200 pounds. So, and neither were drafted in the first three. round. So Bryce Young, a complete outlier, can you name who those two players were that were both under six foot and under

200 pounds to be drafted? And while you think about that, I just, you guys, hearing you guys talk about that really brought up an interesting philosophical point when it comes to these quarterbacks is, you know, when I talked to teams this summer about, you know, we had one quarterback when the top 73 picks, you know, like, we've never had that before and this and that. They all mentioned kind of the same thing that, well, we're looking towards next year's class and you know what? We're not going to take the bait. We're not going to, because in past years,

we would have seen Malik Willis going the second round, Matt Corral going the second round. But teams were more willing to be patient. And it makes you wonder, will teams picking in, say, the top 10 this year, whether it's the Lions, whether it's the Panthers, whoever it is, if they're looking towards next year's class and saying, hey, you know what?

Because every team does this. Every team does advanced scouting. They're looking at next year's class and said, hey, you know, like we like C.J. but you know who we really like these guys next year, will they be willing to be patient? So it's an interesting part of this quarterback evaluation that teams are going to be discussing amongst themselves

when they start to stack this board and figure out if there's a quarterback for them in this draft. Dane, they're going to probably talk themselves into patience to think, you know who I really like? And that's Drew Aller from Penns. In the 2025 draft, let's go. Yeah, Drew Aller. and maybe Jimbo don't screw up Connor Wegman.

We like how those guys are wired and they throw it. You know, maybe my guess is, and I don't know if they measure the six foot part, and you're saying the first three rounds? No, no, just in the draft. Neither of these two guys went in the first three rounds. I think Bruce is going to get one of these. I don't know if they got to. I didn't get either one.

There have been 301 quarterbacks just drafted, period, the last 25 years. These are the only two out of the 301 that were both under six foot, under 200 pounds. So one, you know both these guys. One had a decent career in the NFL. It lasted for a little while. The other one didn't play very long, but I think did okay in the AFL Arena Football League. Both were a while ago. Yeah, so technically Johnny measured over six feet then, right?

Well, he was 207. Yeah, he was under six foot, but he was 207, so he was just over. He said some collars in his pocket. Tyler also over 200. And I'm going strictly by Combine Medical. So Murray was. Can you get on Francis? Because I'm going to struggle.

I have a hard time going back. There's a big 12 quarterback turn of the century. Yeah, drafted in 2003. Was that Michael Bishop or El Roberson? No, those are. I thought they were both over three. I don't know. The blast from the past names right there.

Another former Big Eighth School, not that former Big Eighth School. Not Todd Riesing. He wouldn't have got drafted, right? No, no, no, but you're right there. You're on. This is before Todd Rie. Todd Riesing would have been like 09, but, yeah. Played for the Seattle Seahawks for a little while there.

Oh, what's his name from Iowa State, right? You got to. Ollas, yep. You got it. I would have thought Senegalis was like six. This is what I said. When Dane said that I immediately started furiously looking up Sinica Wallace's draft profile because I was under 16.

At the combine, he was 5-11 and 3-8s, 1096 pounds. And then the other one was... I don't think he got drafted. He was a player I loved in college. And he was definitely under six feet and under 200 pounds was Vernon Adams. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Canadian football legend Vernon Adams. Yeah. The other one was Joe Hamilton, Georgia Tech back in the day. He was 5'10. Yeah. It's funny about this. So last week, sorry to jump in. Of course, Bruce has a Joe Hamilton story.

We are in Fort Worth, so they take our crew. This is the Davey O'Brien committee takes us to the Fort Worth Touchdown Club. And so there's like a wing of all the guys who won the Davey O'Brien Award. So we're walking in and it's a lot of overlap from the Heisman. And I go in there and it's like you see it even though like Mike Singletary apparently won it twice, this was like we're just giving it to quarterbacks, you know, whatever. So he's not even in there like his bust or his thing. But we get to the point where I look and I'm like, so I see Joe Hamilton and I tell one

of my colleagues, I was like, yeah, I went to the town. Like my second featured ESPN magazine was on Joe Hamilton because he's from a town that technically doesn't exist anymore. Alvin South Carolina does not have a postal code. It's like, I don't know, 300 people. And there's a bunch of Courtney Brown was from there who was obviously a first pick. And Pearson Prelude was a really good player. So it's like has a lot of good football players, but nothing.

Like there was one business in the town. It was it was the barbershop, the wait room, the pool hall and the fish fry place. It was all in the same place. It was across the dirt road from where Joe lived. And I thought like if Joe came. along now, I would love to see what he would have a chance to do in the NFL because he was a really special quarterback. So a couple of rows over from Joe Hamilton, I see the Jason White stuff.

And Jason White apparently won the Davey O'Brien twice. And I'm looking at it. And I'm in there with Liner, Matt Liner and a couple of my colleagues from the show. And I'm like, hmm, maybe they had like an academic component to this because Matt won everything, but he didn't want the Dave O'Brien. he was not too happy that I pointed out that he wouldn't make he was looking some of the other names in the room it's sort of like the golden globes to the Oscars yeah so but there was but yeah Joe was a phenomenal college quarterback and it makes sense I should have got that one yeah Joe Hamilton and Reggie Ball electric Georgia Tech quarterbacks Reggie had a little better talent to throw to that guy was okay that that tall guy happened to him. He could run. Well, guys, this has been amazing. We probably could do this for four hours. And we might actually, when we're together at the combine or one of those days. But Bruce, thank you so much for joining us. This was fun. I love this stuff. It's such a cool rabbit hole to go down, you know, and because it's like, it's our own version of fantasy sports. I know I think, Dane, you made a reference to it, you know, at some point in the podcast. But I just think it's neat where you kind of look and think, oh, I would really like.

like this guy or you think somebody, you're like, you know what, that quarterback, I wonder if he would play safety in the NFL or whatever. And there's, like, I had that conversation on Saturday with the personnel person I know. And it's always interesting to see how it plays out. Well, it's going to be a fun on Bruce. We're going to bug you again. So just be prepared. But you can listen to Bruce and Stuart Mandel on the Audible every week, twice a week. And obviously, catch me on the Andy Stapel show. Or right here on Prosper. prospects to pros on the Athletic Football Show feed. Thanks so much for listening.

This was the Athletic Football Show.