The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Prospects to Pros: Caleb Williams, Drake Maye, and the rest of the QB landscape at the halfway point of the season

Episode Date: October 25, 2023

We're just about halfway through the college football season, which makes this a great time to check in on the quarterback landscape. That's exactly what Nate Tice and Dane Brugler do on this episode of The Athletic Football Show's Prospects to Pros. The guys start off with the top two in the class, Caleb Williams and Drake Maye, before moving on to their respective QB3s. They wrap things up by discussing a the rest of the quarterbacks who will, or could, come out this spring.Follow Nate on Twitter: @Nate_TiceFollow Dane on Twitter: @dpbruglerSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTubeThis episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/MAYS and get on your way to being your best self.Show Burrow you’re listening to The Athletic Football Show by shopping at burrow.com/mays and get 10 percent off your first order. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show's Prospects to Prospects to Pros. Hello and welcome to Prospects to Pros, sponsored by Invesco QQQ, the official ETF of the NCAA. I'm your host, Nate Tice. We are going to be talking quarterbacks today. Yes, the blue chips, the guys at the top, the signal collars, whatever you want to say, the field generals. But we're talking about what should be a loaded class or something that we've talked about being a very interesting class, especially at the top and also the depth of it. So we're going to get into that today.

To help me do that, as always, is my guy, Dane Bruegler. How are you doing today, Dane? I'm good. This is going to be a fun conversation and a very nuanced conversation because it has to be when you talk about quarterbacks, right? Before we do, though, can we at least we spend like two minutes on Marvin Harrison Jr. I mean, how good he was on Saturday. Slot Marv. Like breaking news.

Like he's really good. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's the thing is he. he played a lot in the boundary last year. And so this year there was more of an effort that, okay, we're going to get him in the slot. We're going to get him to the field, you know, play across the formation. And number four, Kaelin King moved around with him a lot.

And Marvin had no problem getting open. It was a really special performance. It's a type of thing that, you know, you point to and say, okay, yep, what we've been talking about, why he's a top three pick in this draft. This is why. It was that type of performance. Going back and I posted the all 22 of the matchups between Kaelin King and Marvin Harrison Jr. And it's no offense to Cal McCord, but some of those throws should not have been completed, but, you know, it's Marvin Harrison. He's an easy button. And so so much fun watching him play. He's just, he's a different cat. And it's, it really does make it an enjoyable watch when

you're studying a guy like that. It's fun too because there's sometimes where these top receivers are producing and it's just, you know, like a go ball, like a wide open post and okay, there's 70 yards there. And then it's like two other catches. And then you look and someone's like, wow, four catches for a buck 15 and it touched out. They had a great day. And then you watch and you're like, kind of.

Like, you know, it's like a couple checkdowns and all. Harrison's is just everything, everything. Slot routes, nuanced routes, routes, routes where he's winning with power, routes where he's winning or catching the ball outside his catching range, like just totally outside of it. It's like you said, I'm glad he wrote. There's a slant ball that you posted. And it was like, yeah, it should have been incomplete.

But it was not only. Yeah, the touchdown. I think. Yeah. I was going to say first down. So it must have been a touchdown. I remember just being a positive play. But again, he's going against a good corner.

And he's giving his quarterback room for error. And that's what you got, what you want when you have a true ace like this at the receiver position. He's so much fun. I've got to put those clips because they're just the details that they show the technical ability that he has. The releases, the stem work. At the catch point, yeah, the touchdown that he had, I mean, how many receivers either drop that ball or stop their momentum to make sure they secure it? He just naturally, comfortably snatches it behind his ear and is able to get in.

I mean, it really was an important performance for his evaluation to just kind of show, okay, this is what we're talking about. And I think to your point. point, there weren't any of those big, deep balls in this game where he's just running by everybody. No one, you know, no one got a hand on him, anything like that. It was all, I mean, there were many explosive plays. So it was, yeah, a lot of fun to watch. And it'll be fun to see how he finishes, you know, as they lead up to that Michigan game. I suggest anyone that's not really like, watch, watch Marvin Harrison, maybe seeing the highlights, the highlights. Look at Dan's timeline and just watch those releases. That's all you need to say.

see because this guy's 6-4, all of 6-4, you know, 6-3, high, 6-3 is in change. Like, he's legit tall at the receiver position. And he's doing stuff that guys that are 510, 5-11 should be doing that we expect out of those guys. It's so much fun watching this guy. So glad we got to talk about them. Don't probably have to worry about the quarterback discussion from that game. So we can maybe put a pin in that.

But we can talk about the guys that are at the top of the 2024 class. We feel like we let it cool. about how this could be a quarterback three discussion every single week after Drake May and Caleb Williams and just how that's going to be. But even at the top, there's been some interesting stuff, how these guys have played May and Williams, like I just said. And the QB3 race and everything after that has been very interesting. There's a lot of guys to talk about. So let's just dive right into it. Want to just start with what has been the consensus number one guy, Caleb Williams from USC, Dane so far this season. It's about halfway through the college football season.

What have you thought about Williams so far? it's been up and down at times you know the obviously the Notre Dame game was uh that was the one that sticks out as being his toughest performance up to this point really just because those three interceptions um it was one was just an inaccurate throw the other two were just bad decisions um that you know i think he he was the first one to say after the game like it was it was a bad game i should not have made those throws yeah it just it was not it um but you know i think that this is what happened. Can we ban the word generational, by the way? Yes, please. Let's start a petition. What are we got to do? When you put that type of word on a player, it just kind of, it sets a bar way too, especially at the quarterback position, sets the bar way too high. Quarterbacks are up and down. You know, it's going to happen. You know, don't, if you think like, you know, Caleb Williams is not going to be, you know, the top pick anymore because of, you know, the last couple of. You know, the last couple of.

games, don't go back and watch Patrick Mahomes and Texas Tech. And, you know, some of the games he had, don't go back and watch some of the games Jalen Hertz had, you know, it's just all the, most of these players have games like this where I've seen Trevor Lawrence have some stinkers. And he was, he's been my number one quarterback I've ever watched as far as a prospect. And Justin Herbert had some of those. Yep. Right.

I mean, Joe Burroughs one of the few that just in that final season just didn't really have. Oh, so you didn't. Oh, so you didn't face many, uh, speed bumps that year. But yeah. No, they didn't. But that's not the norm, you know? And so, and especially with the USC situation where the offensive line, the receivers, the scheme, I mean, there's a lot of context involved with him. And so just this past Saturday against Utah.

So here, how is this for context? Against Florida in the opener, Utah rushed five or six rushers. So they blitzed 48% of the quarterback's dropbacks, okay? So almost half of the dropbacks, they were blitzing. Against USC on Saturday, Utah rushed five or more rushers. 11% of Caleb's dropbacks. They don't have to against that USC offensive line. They were routinely getting home with four.

So they knew they didn't have to blitz. And they were fine dropping seven or eight in the coverage. And that's just a hard way to live if you're a quarterback. And like I said, Caleb's catching a lot of heat just because of the up and down play. And some of that is very much deserved. And it's 100% fair that we're talking about it. But I think it's also, you know, part of the context is the offensive line's not helping him. The receivers are not.

running the proper depth, they're not getting open. And a perfect example of this is there's a play in the second half against Utah, third and four. I think they're right around midfield, 50 yard line. The play is designed for a quick throw to branch in the slot who is just going to run to the sticks, sit down, boom, move the chains. He runs three yards, okay? So he doesn't run to the sticks. And because of just the way that, then this is a freshman making and a freshman mistake, Caleb looks at him, kind of makes a little pump, and he doesn't throw it because he,

he knows that it's not there. And there's a defender driving on him. Like it's not going to be a first down. So Williams pulls it back. And by the time he does, the left tackles already in his lap. And so he's got to do a little dance, get out.

He goes to the sideline and finds a streaking receiver towards the sign line, makes a incredible throw, and it's a first down. And so plays like this, he's going to get killed because, oh, he didn't sit in the pocket and go through his reads. And the receiver, I mean, he did the right decision. receiver did not run the proper depth.

And I think we see this a lot in this Lincoln Riley system where when the first read is not there, a lot of times the quarterbacks get on the move. This isn't a Caleb thing. This is something we saw with past quarterbacks in the system. So, you know, it's all, again, this is all, I'm not making excuses for Caleb right now. I'm trying to. You're paying the picture of what the situation is. Right. Add context to when you evaluate him, all these things come into play.

And this is why quarterback evaluation is so tough because it's not. as simple as, oh, he missed the throw or, oh, he missed the, you know, there's so many moving parts here. And it's not like, you know, we get it all right all the time, even though we're watching the tape and really examining these things from so many different angles, it is a thing where trying just to lay out all the context and have a dialogue about how we feel about it, how that's going to translate. And with Caleb, there is definitely a lot of nuance involved here. Yeah. I will say, just even traits wise is he's so accurate, especially when throwing around the move.

Naturally. It's just naturally accurate. And I keep using the dart analogy with him is that like, because it's all elbow to elbow to fingertip where he just flicks it. It's truly that flick where he's accurate. And he has excellent contact balance. Excellent to me is the top tier you can kind of give a grade. Rare is technically the highest. But I always found that fungible.

Like no one ever gave it. So what's the point of having that grade on the scale? That's the nine. But I think he has excellent contact balance. He can throw zip from the weird angles. All this stuff we know. he has, and it's funny, I watched the Colorado game this morning on All 22, and I'm, I'm just about to get ready to damn. I'm going like, hey, man, this guy's not progressing at all. It's anything times a five-step dropback or a seven-step dropback. He doesn't find his checkdowns. He proceeds to find back-to-back checkdowns.

Like literally after I wrote the note, he finds checkdowns. So that's quarterbacking, which is good, which I think is growth. That's why I want to see. And what you're talking about is a bug and a feature of the Lincoln Riley office. It's heavily designed. Some of the, best designs you'll ever see. But the thing is, if that number one guy that Lincoln Riley designed all week to come open is not open, the whole thing, whole thing comes unraveled. And so that's where you try to parse through this. It's sometimes, once in a while, it is Caleb's fault, but sometimes that's the offense. And number two, the checkdown quote, unquote, is, hey, Caleb, go do something. Go. Go. And so I think that's where even the generational stuff is annoying, too, is that Caleb has so many good traits. But because people have labeled that, they expect him to be perfect. And he's what, 2021. He's only got X amount of starts. He hasn't

hit a pro. And that's the thing is this offense is going to be conducive to see the stuff we want him to grow with because that's just the offense. So it's not until he's going to be a pro that we'll see that. But I still think the traits are there. Some of the blemishes I had coming into the year I still kind of have. But again, that might be some of the offense, the inconsistent, progressing from the pocket. A little too relying on creation, but he's really good at it. So again, you have to kind of parse through that. The only thing I think is concerning is the time to throw. It's over a half second longer than when Mahomes was at Texas Tech.

And his pressure to sack ratio is almost at 20% while Mahomes was at 11%. So that is, I'm not saying comparing to Mahomes, but Mahomes was more of a freestyling, freewheeling quarterback himself. So just kind of do bring a little bit of context on there that he's going to have to improve about on that. He's going to have to improve a little bit on some of the timing throws over the middle. you go coast to coast a little bit and not anticipate. But the thing is he has the arm talent to do these things. He flashes that progression. He flashes the stuff that the quarterbacky stuff, which keeps for me a high grade on him.

So that's the thing is that the blemishes are there. He is not maybe the high, high marks that we talked about that he might attain this year. But he's still an easy first round quarterback. And I think anyone that has said otherwise is kind of, I don't know, I think they're trying to hype up a wrong storyline to me anyways. Right. Yeah. And again, it comes back to what was your opinion of him coming in? Was it buying into the hype of him being this generational guy? Like, if so, then yeah, you're probably disappointed by what's happened in the last few weeks. But in reality, that's probably not the best way to look at him. He's a really good player. But, you know, it's, we have to look at him as a flawed player. Both these, Drake May, all these quarterbacks are flawed in their own ways. And, you know, the time to throw thing is interesting because I know, like this was something. like last year with Anthony Richardson, he was at 3.18 seconds time to throw. That was the longest. Yeah.

I mean, higher than any, you know, quarterback that's gone that high in the past. This year, Caleb's at 3.10. So, I mean, it's, you know, right under there in that same territory. But last year, he was like close to 3.3. So, I mean, he's at least getting down from where he was at this point last year. So, yeah, it's, it is something that is another thing that when you, have a mobile quarterback like this that is able to create, you don't want to lean on that.

But, you know, I think he has shown that he can make plays from the pocket. Yep. He has shown that he can either make that quick throw or like you, you were saying, work through some of his reads, work the checkdown, you know,

work off that back foot, throw a laser because he has really good arm strength and he's really accurate and he throws really well on the move. I think that he does have instincts, you know, when as just a playmaker. And so that certainly helps them bail them out. But you know what?

It'll be interesting now against Oregon, against Washington. I mean, USC still has a lot of work to do to be a, you know, finish with a nine and three type of record. You know, it's, they've got some landmines coming up here with some pretty good Pack 12 teams. So we're still learning with Caleb Williams. You know, this conversation is far from done. Absolutely. And he is probably, he seems a very aware kid. Like he does.

Like I really like some of the answers he's had. interviews like you even brought up with the Notre Dame stuff, but I, I've really liked it. And that's all I can glean from and, you know, kind of have takeaways from. He's aware, like, he knows what these blemishes are. I'm very sure that he's probably trying to improve upon. So I think the second half of the year is going to be really interesting to watch with him. But this is one of the toughest parts about evaluating a quarterback is, okay, when you separate him from Lincoln Riley, what is he going to look like? Correct. I mean, that's why I don't want to damn him. Right. Yeah. And that, and then this is what NFL

teams will be so, okay, we remove him from Lincoln Riley scheme, we drop him into our scheme. How is this going to look? It's, it is really hard. Match him in the Shannonhan offense. On the move, under center, throwing out, like, that's amazing. That would be like fantastic. And that's like even a guy like Stroud last year. Okay, so much in the pocket, so much all this stuff.

The offense that he runs in Houston is so different than what he ran out of Ohio State, but that's where you look at the traits, what he does accomplish. And that's why it's translated so well so far in Houston. So it's a great point. All right. Going on to the other guy at the top of the class, my personal QB1, which is not changed. But that is Drake May from North Carolina. Halfway through the season, they just came off a loss. They were undefeated up. They just lost to Virginia. It was on the CW. I had it. I had access to it. I watched way too much of it because I realized Virginia was keeping it close. So I was checking it out. But so far this season, what do you think of May so far? I had a high opinion of him coming in. And my quarterback preview back in July, I said this is quarterback 1A and 1B. This is razor thin.

And I've been very, very impressed at Drake May. Even against Virginia, which, you know, the box score scouts will look at it and say, oh, 50% completion. They lose a 1 in 5 team at home. Obviously, Drake May is bad, which plenty of people on Twitter told me the last few days. I watched the tape this morning and it was a good tape. It was. It wasn't a great tape, but it was a good tape. It certainly wasn't a bad tape.

And, you know, he, yeah, 50% completions, but five drops, legitimate drops that hit the receiver in both hands that a college receiver should make. A couple other plays where the receiver fell down. He had a fourth touchdown in this game that got called back because of penalty. And on that drive, they settled for a field goal. And that changes the outcome of this game. So, you know, there's a lot with Drake May that he's, yeah, is he reckless at times? Yeah, he is.

And there are there are reckless tendencies to his game that he needs to reel back and figure out, you know, just, okay, don't make that throw. Because he is not afraid to test those small windows. He believes in his arm. He believes in his legs. He is a guy that's, you know, he knows he has the tools. And he is not afraid to, he's not going to hold him back. He is going to go play and go push the ball, go be aggressive. But I, there are more positives with him than negatives easily.

I mean, he is a legit. And I tweeted this over the weekend, but I'll say it again, I'll be very surprised if the first three picks are not Caleb, Drake, and Marvin Harrison. And in whatever order, I'm not saying I know the order. I'm not even going to try to predict it at this point. But I'd be surprised if those three guys aren't the first three picks because of just how high level they are. And Drake May absolutely belongs in that conversation.

I mean, I'm not even interested in, you know, the Caleb versus Drake, you know, debates that people are going to have because both are really good. And yeah, right. If you're not going to get one, you feel fine with the next guy you're getting. So, again, I think a lot of people are going to look at that Virginia game and just, first of all, most of them didn't watch it because, again, it was on the CW. Most sports fans have no idea of CW if they even have it or what channel it is. but they just look at the box score and say, oh, you know,

obviously he had a bad game when reality, that ain't it. It's just, you know, he had a really good game that showed off all of his talent, all of his skills, and,

you know, it's, it'd be fun watching him the rest of the way. I agree. And also, both of these guys and a lot of the parts carrying the team down and down out.

It's like, you'll see the North Carolina will have a great run game. And it's because the defenses are terrified of May. And because he makes, they do some RPO's, he makes good decisions with that. Same with Caleb.

there's times where it's like he's the only one churning first downs. There's guys botching routes. I love May. I do. I'm with it. Size athleticism, accuracy. Like you said, willingness to push the ball.

I always prefer that as opposed to guys where you're trying to drag it out of them to push the ball to take the high on the high low. He does it. And sometimes it's like, okay, let's rein it back a little bit. It got him in trouble early in the year. I think he was like had one to one, like four touchdowns,

four interceptions at one point in the year. And that's because when he had the lead, you can see his basketball background because he goes on a heat check. He's like, I'm going to try this out. It's like, not now. Wait until you're up like three scores, not one score, Drake, you know. So I do think he has honed that in a little bit. He's rained it in a little, but he does have that part to his game. I think his pocket movement's good.

There's times last year, this was my main blemish with him, was that he would drift backwards and because he was trying to create a play. I think he's taking that. And he bounces on his feet a little bit. But yeah, I think he's gotten better. You're right. Yes, yeah, it can throw him off and he makes up with it with his arm. And I think he's tightened it a little bit, which is good. And he's let comebacks.

So I really like him. I, uh, yeah. And Tess Walker now being in the fold, that changes things. That first touchdown against Virginia, those two. I tweeted it. Oh, my God. Yeah. Oh, that's an NFL play.

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. The speed streaking down. I mean, was he in a slot? Yeah. Yeah. And he just streaked down, uh, the zipper there. And, yeah, and hit him.

It was perfect. Yeah. I mean, it was a great throw, great. Great Route. Great route everything. Tess Walker kind of changes things because he is a legitimate NFL receiver. I was wondering what about that. Oh, yeah.

I mean, he's the way he tracks the ball, the speed that he brings, the way he can accelerate. Yeah. I mean, he's, he went to North Carolina because he knew, okay, I've got a quarterback. I've got a chance to really explode now. I mean, I know he's from the area too. But, you know, he's just another guy to include in this wide receiver conversation because, yeah, I think he's legit. I'll say this. I think this will kind of be my way to wrap up kind of.

of the May and Williams discussion for me is that both of these guys, too, are tough as hell. And that the teammates' feet off it. May got smoked in this game. I thought he was going to be knocked out. And he bounced up and he was like talking to the ref. I was like, I always laugh at Josh Allen sometimes because Josh Allen will take the most brutal hits. And he'll get up and he's like laughing and talking to everybody. Right.

But same with Caleb. There was a game, oh, man, it had to be, they went back and forth through a team and then pulling it out. So it might have been the, I'm a tournament where I was at Stanford. But they, no, it wasn't Stanford. They blew them out of the water. But anyway, he had a game where he scores a touchdown at the goal line. And it's like a QB sneak and he gets stuffed. But then Caleb drives his legs and runs over the defender to score a touchdown.

And it's like, that, you want teammates feed off that. When they just see your quarterback is doing that dirty work and doing that grunt stuff and doing that hard nose stuff. Oh, yeah, they love it. So I just wanted to kind of leave it with that. Both these guys are tough football players. people laugh at me for maybe some i know some people laugh at me for my for my older brother theory but i absolutely 100% believe this is a thing when you have older brothers you grow up playing sports with older brothers that just develops your toughness right away it's different than if

you're the oldest and you like it's just it's just a little bit different drake may has three older brothers who are all high level athletes so he was playing with you know 10 and 12 year olds when he's six and seven and he so you know that's that's a little bit of that's That elevates you at a young age where you're always playing ahead. You're developing that toughness more. You're developing your coordination more. You're getting stronger quicker than other kids your age. Drake May, that is, I mean, there's countless examples of this, I think.

But this is one of those where he was the younger brother and he benefited from having three accomplished athletic older brothers that really pushed him growing up at a competitive family. That's part of the context here. Absolutely. That's such a great point. This is, we talked, we said originally that the QB3 discussion would almost be a weekly discussion.

I feel like it could be, but we put on pause for a few weeks. So let it, let's simmer, let it marinate. I am curious now, especially after your pre-season, the QB3 has had some nice performances. How do you feel about the QB3 discussion? If right here, right about Halloween time, just before, who would be your QB3 if you were to put your big board out right now, Dane? I'm sticking with my QB3 from the preseason, and that's J.J. McCarthy from Michigan. And his eval feels incomplete, right?

Because he hasn't necessarily been challenged by a high-level defense at this point. But he's taken care of business. He's done exactly what he's needed to do to beat whoever's on the schedule. So we'll learn more about him in November. Penn State's coming up. Not only Penn State, but going to Penn State. And then playing Ohio State at home. Those two defenses are top 10 defenses in the country.

So how he does against those. And look, I guess, this is where we have to have the asterisk about what's going on with the sign stealing. And like, I don't, it's, it's tough because I, you know, we just don't know enough information. Now there's video of the supposed, uh, assistant on the, Venmo receipts that that's, yeah, there's people are going through the Venmo receipts and going like, why do you sell a T-shirt? Like, oh, yeah, I know, I know. I mean, like, it's, I'm so glad I'm not college football man.

Right. Well, okay, I mean, this is a perverse, you know, conversation to have with you as someone that spent a lot of time, you know, with different programs at the college level. And, you know, as a quarterback and, you know, you had a lot of responsibilities on game day. I don't know. I mean, kind of what were your experiences with? Because, I mean, sign stealing is not new. It's that's something that, and I don't care what sport you're in. I mean, if you're on second base, you're always trying to look and see what, uh, what the,

catchers do with this thing. Pull that jersey. Off ball pitch coming. Pull that jersey. Absolutely. I mean, it's, you know, it's, it's, that's part of it. So, but your experiences with, uh, sign stealing and all that, you know, kind of share that with the listeners.

Oh, yeah. Uh, as, especially as a professional backup quarterback or actually was a professional college backup quarterback. It was, that was what I did a lot of, especially when we were on defense. Um, you know, when we were on offense, I would more look, you look for personnel. And that's usually pretty basic. nickel five, you know, like base is like big, or a goal one would be big arms. But when we would be on defense, I would look for the opposing team, look at the opposing

quarterbacks. And it would be so funny that some teams would have 500 guys fake signaling. Right. You know, as the game went along, some guys get lazy and you can start kind of piecing together what it is. I would say actually at Michigan when Richrodd was there in 2010, they had all these fake signals, all these signs, everything, and Rich Rod was a signal guy. So after a while, you realize that.

And then you can even see on the box score, we end up blown them out. But it was like, they had like a 10-play drive. And that's when me and the other backup quarterback figured out the signals. And then they went three and out, three and out. And we were up like three scores. But it's part of the game. That's the thing with NCAA. They don't have the headset.

I think the extent that Michigan did it was kind of like, oh, you got caught. But everyone does it. And there's only, you still have to stop it. When I was at Pitt and I was a GA, I'm in the box. And I'm sitting next to the defense coordinator. I was on offense. but again, we're on defense, so I'm right in my notes. And I have my binoculars.

I'm looking at their sideline against Old Dominion. Taylor Heineke was the quarterback there. And right away figure out their signals because he only ran like five plays. Like Curles was Hank, which is curl flats. Like a machine gun was their center pole play. Like I just, I can remember this day. So this is the point I want to bring up. If you look at that box score, we did not stop Heineke that day, Hanicki that day.

It was, so you still can know the signals. You can still know what the play calls are. You still have to stop it. You still have to have the right design. You still have to have everything. So to me, there is some advantage and there's some tendencies, but you still have to communicate it to the players. Do the players know what that call is in the loud environment?

So that's where I kind of go back and forth with that. I think it's part of the game, especially with college, but I think people are making way too big of a deal of it right now. It'll be interesting. I mean, first of all, I doubt we'll have any resolution to this in the next two months before Michigan would potentially play for a playoff spot or national title. But it's going to be one of those things that we'll probably find out in June and they'll vacate wins. And by this time, Harbaugh will be moved on.

I mean, I think it's kind of funny that people are saying. Los Angeles Chargers head coach, Jim Arbor. Yeah. I think it's funny that people are just talking about Harbaugh going to the NFL. Like he hasn't been trying the last five years. Every single off season, he tried. He has tried. And no takers.

So, I mean, now. this offseason he might not have a choice and you know he might just go and be an assistant or something but yeah it'll be interesting to see how this this plays out but yeah back to McCarthy he's he's playing really well quarterback yeah uh i mean look i i i get the you know concerns now people like you can't tweet about j j jc mccarthy like getting it somebody sarcastic tweets about him knowing the signs and all that stuff but he he's he's been great um and you know with today's metrics. There are so many different ways to break down the quarterback position. And there's not one that is fail safe by any means, but something that I always find

interesting is a quarterback's percentage of throws that result in a first down or touchdown. Basically, who is being most efficiently productive with each throw? Anything over 40% is a good number. C.J. Stroud was around 44% last year. Bryce Young was 45%. McCarthy leads the FBS right now with 56% of his attempts going for a first down. or touchdown. It's a great number. Jane Daniels is second, 52.6.

Caleb Williams is third, 48.7. So all three of those guys, great numbers. But, you know, with JJ, I think you just, all the tools are there. Yeah. You know, and just this year is all about can he be more consistent? And so far he has. I mean, really, except for that bowling green game where he had three inexplicable interceptions, he hasn't thrown a pick outside of that game.

He's really good off platform. and on the move. His touchdown, and I tweeted this clip, but he had a touchdown to Rowan Wilson against Michigan State on Saturday is a perfect example of this, making the blitz or miss, moving his feet,

getting outside the pocket, throwing on the run, and, you know, at six points. He has just such a dynamic set of skills. And I think the intangibles are top-notch. There's just a lot of things that in a quarterback I want, and it's consistency now. Can he be more consistent?

How he plays in November against, I think it's a three-game stretch, Penn State, Maryland, Ohio State. How he plays in those three games, that will tell Scouts a lot more on, you know, what his draft grade should be. I think it'll determine whether or not JJ McCarthy comes out or he goes back to school. So, yeah, there's a lot of things, you know, kind of TBD with McCarthy. But to this point, I don't see any reason why I should move him off my quarterback three right now. I think he's a clean thrower. I think his arm's strength is pretty good, but then he'll crank it and zip it.

He sometimes has a crow hop into it, and I think he's a good athlete and great. Do you have any knocks on size at all, like as far as weight or anything like that? Lean, yeah. Because, I mean, he's, he's, height's not an issue, but he does have a leaner frame. I wouldn't call him skinny, but he's not built, you know? And so it's, he's a very just, and slight's not, I don't even know if slight is a good way to describe him. But he is, but it's not, I wouldn't say his weight is a positive by any means. But I'm, you know, I think he protect, for the most part, I think he protects himself.

Like you don't see him take a ton of really heavy shots. It's not Janey. Daniels. Right. Right. I, we'll talk about Daniels, but, man, he's, he's a maniac. He's Johnny Knoxville. He is, he is.

And I absolutely love him for it. But yeah, McCarthy, that's part of it. And part of it, too, is we've talked about it, the run game. This is a run first team. And he's not asked to do as much through the air. And so, you know, that 56% that I mentioned with, you know, of his attempts being first down or touchdown. Part of that could be misleading because some offenses, the pass is part of their run game in terms of those quick throws. So on first down, they're getting four yards, which is by design.

That's as good as a run. And so it kind of skews things a little bit. But again, the opponents that he's had, the situations that he's had, he's stepping up and making throws. And we can only go based off of the tape that we have. And so far, if the draft was tomorrow, J.J. McCarthy would beat my quarterback three. But again, November coming up, there's a lot still we need to learn. Yeah, I'm still, I like him better than I did, I would say in August.

And I still am just not all over there. No, not first round good. That's actually what I was going to say once I talked about my quarterback three is that as of right now in November or in October is I only have two guys with a true first round grade and that's the top two guys. All these other guys are more day two guys. Yeah. All these other guys are more day two guys that can ascend.

And that's kind of, that's how I feel about the whole group. So I say with McCarthy, I look still kind of that more late second, early third grade, give or take. I like him way more than I did again a month ago. You had the first down stat. Yeah, success rate, which is, you know, not just first downs, but, you know, nice gains on first and second down. he's over 60% that leads the country too. I think he is a good operator.

I think his eyes are pretty good. I think that he can get accurate. He can get hot and throw underneath and throw guys open again. But I just want to see against better competition, just like all the things that he brought up. So I would say he's improved for me as far as how I look at all these guys, but just hasn't tipped over to the first round yet. Want me to talk about my quarterback three?

I've been waiting. I can't wait for this. I'm shocking myself here. And this was, I hinted at it because I was watching them on TV. I finally got small 22 copies. I don't ever want to have a definitive take until I watch these guys on tape. And that's Tyler Van Dyke from Miami. And I'm just, I'm as shocked as everybody else is that that, that name just came out of my mouth.

And he's battled on injury this past week, but he's coming, coming back against Virginia. So we'll see how he goes there. I just, I've liked flashes. I've liked glances of him over the last couple years. It just didn't, wasn't all consistent. He's a little long and elongated was, oh, you know, I don't really seem progressive. in these offenses. And now this year I see him in a real offense, quote unquote, real offense.

And I think he looks great. It has good size, of course. I think he has good arm strength. He's willing to push the ball and against pressure too. Like he's a big game hunter. And so he'll push that ball and it doesn't matter for guys about to whack him. He's going to launch it. So I always like that again.

I think he has good accuracy and can get to the underneath stuff a little better than you would think with this kind of longer motion and longer arms. And I think he has improved his first. footwork and his balance to help him do that. Yeah, but he does the things I like. He throws guys open downfield, whether they're closely guarded. I would say he's a solid athlete, okay athlete, you know, above average-ish, but I do think he can, you know, get a little bit on a scramble. He's not just a total stiff. Like, he's not McKee last year. And I think it's a progression's improved. He's finding checkdowns. And again, that's being in a real offense. So I think he's just

ascending. He's played well this year. I hope he gets back healthy. And yeah, I shocking me, because I love it. Yeah, but he's my quarterback three right now. Again, this is more of a second round grade. But yeah, I'm buying some stock on Tower Van Dyke right now because I like what I've seen through two months. I really did like that Texas A&MTA. I thought that was his best game. I thought he, I agree with most of what you said.

I think toughness isn't a question with him. I mean, that certainly stood out. I do think he's accurate, you know, even on the little stuff, you know, even like upfield slants. where you have to hit the right shoulder. It surprises me. Right. Because he's those big guys and this is as someone that's long is I had trouble with that because you're so long.

It takes you a second. You have to kind of the arm range. You know, he's getting a lot more creative as a thrower and throwing sidearm. Sorry to cut you off. But yeah, no, I'm with you on that. No.

And I think that, you know, as an athlete, I think he's functional. Yeah. You know, he can do things that you want to see. I think, you know, Shannon Dawson coming in as the OC, I think that's really helped him. Kind of take a step back. The offensive line has been improved. That makes a big difference because, again, it's a confidence thing. When you have guys in front of you that you trust the block, you know, your confidence is better.

I do think there are gambling tendencies here with him. Yeah, oh, yeah. I think the Georgia Tech tape maybe. Yep. That one sticks out as. Yep. Yeah. And that's more, most iffy game was that game.

Well, and I think it. Part of it is his eyes are a little undiscipline. I mean, he will at times stare down exactly where he needs to go. And, you know, that's part of his maturation as a quarterback. You know, but he is a guy that he's got a lot of talent. And, you know, he's technically an underclassman, but he's a fourth year junior. So he is a guy that could potentially be in an all-star game, which would be big for him. You know, if he ends up declaring, you know, he would be, he's the type of guy I want to see at the Shrine game with a senior ball.

and, you know, just to see how he does in that environment. So, yeah, I'm surprised you have him as high as three, but I love it because, you know, he's played, he has played really well this year. He has definitely, you know, based off of what the opinions were over the summer, he's certainly, you know, ahead of that. Yeah. But, yeah, that's great. So if your team picking in the late first round and you need a quarterback, you'd feel fine rolling the dice on him at that point. I'd be, I'd be willing to take him in the 20s as far as that half round great inflation that you kind of do with quarterback. So yeah, I know, dude, I, four days ago, this was not my take, five days ago.

And then I'm glad I watched all 22 of him because this is, I had an inkling that I'd be higher on him than me. Two years ago, I liked him or going into last year's draft. And then last year, it was just no, he was hurt sometimes. It was just up and down. The offense was not good. And so I was like, all right, I kind of cooled on him. But it was, it's really nice. And this is continue some of our Caleb Williams discussion is that seeing him in an offense that's more quote unquote normal and seeing those kind of normalish progressions and everything.

And it's like, oh, you do have it in you. So it's, yeah, that's why he's rapidly. He's thinking less. He's just in a, he's in a different place. There's a comfort level there that we didn't see last year. Absolutely. So when he does get pressured, he's not panicking. He's an answer.

Yeah, right. Even if it doesn't always work out, he doesn't look panicked like he did last year. And that's a huge part of maturing as a quarterback. So, yeah, I mean, while I don't have him as high as you do, I am very encouraged by what we've seen so far in terms of him growing as a quarterback and making him or making us pay attention more to, okay, he's not just the guy that we saw last year. He's getting better and better.

And I really wanted to see him against Clemson. That was a bummer with the injury. But, yeah, hopefully he gets back. And, you know, we can see him against some more quality. the opponents here. Yeah. Who do you want to go next? I don't know if you want to go with your what you have as your QB4 or maybe do is there a crop of guys that you're looking at in that kind of range, but who do you have at this point or what do you want to talk about next? Let me let's talk about Shador at this point. You know, I know, you just watch Colorado

this morning. So what do you think is Shudor Sanders? I, first and foremost, and I mean this in a good way and a bad way, is that I think he should go back for another year. Because, but why I'm saying that is because he's rapidly improving and I, but he's He's not all the way there yet. I think his footwork can be a little scattershot. And again, another guy that's too bouncy can lead to some timing issues. His awareness in the pocket, it's kind of funny. Some of the negatives that maybe had with May, they're not the same type of player.

It's kind of the same with Shudur, feeding back in the pocket. Maybe trying some stuff. But that could be inconsistent because working back in the pocket is a death wish in the NFL, unless you're a freak freak, 1% athlete. I think the armtown's there. Some of the throws he had against Oregon, even though it was in a great game for them. he threw a couple guys open and that surprised me. Like he had some sideline throws where he's truly placing the back shoulder and I was like,

oh, that's, when he's comfortable with the route and comfortable with what he sees, you can see the flashes. And I think that's where some accuracy helps out. When he's not comfortable and he's not, that's where it kind of comes unraveled. And that's why I think he needs more time. So I look at him as more of a third round type, third, like late third that can ascend. But I think the tools are there. I liked him better than maybe I thought a couple weeks ago.

And I'm glad another guy, I'm glad I watched it all 22, but I do think he needs more time. Yeah, that's fair. I think, you know, the arm is B plus in terms of velocity. You know, he navigates the pocket pretty well, keeps his eyes down field. The poise is something we've talked about before, how that is just a central part of his game. I mean, that is the connective tissue that really helps him be a playmaker, whether it's the late game situations or, you know, it doesn't matter the situation. He has that poise that you need from your quarterback. And, you know, I listen to his teammates talk about him.

They talk about his leadership. They talk about his attention to detail that even when he does scramble, they know, oh, he's going to go make a play. I'm going to go help him out. Like, it's just the play is never dead. And so when, you know, your teammates have that type of belief in you, I mean, that really accelerates an offense. And so with Shadur, I mean, the, you know, does he hold the ball too long, too much big play

hunting, things like that. Yeah, there are times on tape where he's just missing open receivers because he's, maybe his eyes aren't in the right place or, you know, he's passing up a double looking for a triple, whatever it may be. But that's part of growing up and developing as a quarterback. So, yeah, it's on a brand new team with brand new receivers, brand new, mostly new play caller. Yeah, I mean, he's got one of the best touchdown interception ratios in the country.

It's like, what, 21 to 3? Yep. It plays a lot of balls. Yeah. Yeah, and Colorado's got, you know, a couple other big games coming up here. So, you know, it'll be, it'll be fun to see because, you know, he started so hot, right? Where it was this come out of nowhere, all of a sudden, the first month of the season, he's this Heisman contender. And then they have a few tough games.

And that Stanford game was the debacle in the second half. Now it's coming back down to earth a little bit. And now what does, you know, the month of November look like for him? And I agree with you. I think he should come back. I think there's a good chance he will considering, you know, we talked about it before, NIL and, you know, his, I doubt Coach Prime is going anywhere at least for another year, a chance to play with Travis Hunter and whatever other receivers they bring in, whether upgrades on the offensive line. So Colorado, and next year was the 12-team playoff. So Colorado could be a legitimate playoff contender next year, which, you know, I could certainly understand why he'd want to take advantage of that while making $6 to $8 million through NI.

and putting off the NFL for one more year. I'm being one of the most prominent teams rather than being, you know, yeah, yeah. In terms of brand, there's no bigger brand right now. Even bigger, he's bigger than Caleb in terms of just pure brand as a player. So, yeah, I think a lot of signs of pointing him to going back, which I think would be a good thing for him long term. I, that's why I want to kind of come back to like why I'm glad I watched a tape on him, especially that Oregon game because so much got out of hand. His presence was with what was helping. Like, he was playing quarterback.

And playing quarterback is being that leader. And sometimes it's, yes, the raw, raw stuff. Sometimes it's, oh, I'm the first one in every meeting. But sometimes it's just, I'm the only one staying calm. You guys better chill out too. That's kind of how he played. I liked him more than I did a few weeks ago. And I thought he has more quarterback to him.

And it's getting better every week. So I think we're- This Saturday would be big against UCLA. That UCLA defense line will get after you. And I mean, I think they ranked top five in a nation in terms of just pressures from the defensive line. So how should her navigates that and handles that? That'll be big.

Yeah, absolutely. Who else can we go with here? We already talked about plenty with Bo Nix and Michael Pennix. I know those guys are other guys that we talk about. Do you want to talk about Jane Daniels from LCO? I think we have to because Jane Daniels, man. He is funny. I liked him at Arizona State.

I was like, this guy's kind of underrated. He's kind of like a, you know, a sixth round version of, you know, Trevor Lawrence Because he's a string bean, long, you know, can move. And all of a sudden, he goes to L.S. 21, or sorry, I'm sorry to catch off. The 22 class, I, uh, I remember I first watched my first group of quarterbacks. And I said, the two quarterbacks that I'm liking more than the other guys right now are Desmond Ritter and Jane Daniels.

Like those were the two guys. You like those skinny guys. I know, right? Something about the 205. I think it's because I want to go back to that. I want to be a freshman in college again. Well, hey, Daniels. He's 205, 207, but I think scouts are happy with that because he was 185 as a junior at Arizona State.

And so the fact that he's gotten much significantly bigger is good. I mean, you wish you were 215, 220. That's just not his body type. But yeah, he took a big step last year at LSU, decides to come back. And he's been so good this year. I mean, he leads. The high's been conversation is interesting right now because Pennix had a, Dudd against Arizona State on Saturday, the way J.J. McCarthy's been playing. But Jane Daniels, he'd be a hard guy not to vote for right now. He leads a nation in touchdown passes. He leads a nation in plays of 10 plus yards, plays of 20 plus yards. I mean, because he is a true dual-thright guy. He will beat you with his arms, with his legs. He's a little crazy with his legs. I mean, you wish he took better care of himself.

Some of the contact It's like he tries to It's like he tries to go for like the craziest hit Yeah How can I get hit the weirdest way How can I show you how tough I am Okay Linebacker

Okay I'm gonna play chicken with his linebacker I'm gonna jump into him Right yeah he's crazy But you know you respect it But yeah the So the most 20 yards Or the most plays over 20 yards this year Jane Daniels at 57

Second is Michael Pennix with 42. He has 15 more plays of 20 plus yards this year than anybody else in the country. It's, yeah, it's crazy. And that part of it is that defense is so bad at LSU that they have to keep playing and running up to score and all that. But credit to Daniels because he has gotten better and better from the pocket. Just processing, staying composed, working the whole field.

I've been really, really impressed with Jane Daniels. And I would not be surprised at all if he is the first senior quarterback drafted. I think that maybe a lot of people would be surprised by that who are, you know, Knicks or Pennix fans. Jane Daniels, he will be ranked above those two for several teams. I promise you. The way he has been playing this year has been a lot of fun. Consider me one of those several teams because I would have him over those guys too.

Yeah. You and I both. Yeah, he knows how to win. And what I mean knows how to win. I mean more just like out from the pocket, getting the ball out time. And then that's why the creation stuff comes in is because he knows that's when he has to do it. It's not every play. He's running around doing all the stuff.

It's just that, okay, when it's time to go to creation mode, he lets it all hang out. And it's kind of fun. But almost like a, I'm not saying one to one, but I was going to say like a diet Coke, skinny, tinier version of James. I don't know, like, you know, kind of just that craziness, like willingness to push the ball. can throw it accurate. Notice that he's a pocket passer. I don't know. That's like the only way I can describe him.

I like him. I, yeah, I, I, I, I, I'm with you. I looked at him as more of a day three type. Last year he was good, but how he's playing this year, yeah, yeah, I think he's in the thick of things with all these other guys because he's just playing good ball. He's, even stat wise. You brought up the first down stats. He's second success rates, that's including all of those throws.

And then he's first an EPA. So he's, yeah, he's doing all he can to win games for LSU right now. And he's doing some good stuff because he's, we're talking about the recklessness and all the crazy stuff. He plays smart ball. Like he is a good pocket passer and accurate and everything. He was even like that Arizona State. That's why I liked him. So, yeah, I'm glad I'm not just kind of like trying to seeing a couple of throws and just kind of praise that up.

So I'll talk about, should we, Quinn Ewers? Any thoughts on Ewers last month or so? We haven't hit him up in a couple weeks, maybe. Yeah. And, you know, I thought he made some nice throws against Houston. The touchdown to Mitchell was. a great route and a good throw. The throw to Xavier worthy, the touchdown was good because he, outside of that Alabama game,

he's been dreadful down the field. But he had a good game going. It was like, he checked the box and he was like, never have to do it again. Right, right. This isn't a quarterback running the 40-year dash. It's like, you know, that's not how it works. But, you know, Quinn, Quinn is tough because there's, he's clearly talented. This isn't a talent issue.

Um, it's just, I think he's a young player who, it just, it seems frenetic at times where his eyes are all over. Um, you know, it just, it makes things a little more difficult than they should be. Um, and I don't want to make it sound like he's had this bad year because he hasn't. It's been far more positive than negative. But when you talk about him as potential first round pick, you know, this is where you nitpick. And with him, it's just, it doesn't always feel composed. And, uh, you know, it's the deep. all stuff that now he's injured. And so we don't know when we're going to see him back on the field. That's not encouraging for a player that you want to see more tape on. And so the Quinn Ewer's conversation right now is tough. You know, it's not, it's hard to have, at least for me, it's, it's hard to have a firm opinion that, oh, he's definitely this or definitely that or like, I'm just not there with my evaluation on him. And look, I learned this a long time ago. It's okay to say that. You know, this isn't, this is not April 25th, where it's, you know, time to draft these guys.

This is October. It's not even Halloween yet. It's okay to have an incomplete feeling about, especially a quarterback. Yeah. But really any prospect. And that's where I'm at with Quinn Ewers. I like him. He's talented.

But in terms of understanding or having a great feel for what he's going to be at the next level, where he should be drafted, what his value is, I'm just not 100% there quite yet. I am like really nothing to add because that's literally what I was going to talk about. I was like, he can get hot and it looks just as good as anybody. He can make the throws, but it's so inconsistent from drive to drive, from play to play. I've seen them repeat play calls, same coverage look, and he's going to two different reads. And that's, that's, you know, that's a scare, that's an alarm bell because that just means, you know, is he guessing? Is he just not seeing cleanly?

Another guy, yeah, and like you said, the injuries. But then he'll make a third down throw and reel you're right back in. That's just the best. Yes, exactly. And that's why even the beginning of the year, I think I had him at four because I was just, I don't know, I'm interested in what he could do. And like he gets in these high throws are sticking in my mind. I do think he has, like you said, he's played good ball this year, better than what I thought. But some of those bad mistakes, some of the inconsistency is reading the thing. He doesn't have overwhelming size, overwhelming, you know, athleticism. You know, athleticism, you know, athleticism. You know, you do too. I'm just explaining to people listening. But it's just that those are mistake erasers. That gets you out of harm's way. That lets you create when plays aren't going well, either your fault or the scheme's fault.

So, yeah, I just, I'm right, I'm inconclusive with him. He's one that for two years now. I, or I just say a year and a half now, I just, every day, every week, every time I watch him, I'm just like up and down with him, just as how he plays. Right. Riley Leonard was my QB3 going into the year. Hi, Uncle Sprain. And he was kind of a NPC, non-playable character against Florida.

state so that kind of didn't really get me much. He's another guy that I think should head back for another year. I was liking what I was seeing, but still I think he just needs time. But I don't think it's anything damning with him. I have more again, another guy that I have more of a third round grade on. But I'd like it. He's accurate. He's got good athlete, but he needs another year, I think. I just, I, there's just not a lot of NFL throws on his film. Nope. Especially this show much quick game. It's like right. Right. Exactly. It's all. And it's not that he can't do these things. It's just, you know, but show me his 10 best play. or 10 best throws

and it's not going to stack up next to any of these other quarterbacks in this draft because it's just he's not asked to do that consistently. There's a reason that me and you tweeted or used the same exact touchdown throw going into this year because that was like one of the few plays.

Yes, that you saw him push the ball and it was like in the reds, it was like one of the few times he saw it because you're like there it is. But again, yeah, you don't really see it with the offense. Sorry to catch you off, but I just thought it's just exactly. Yeah, it's part of that offense.

It's right. And it's no different than what we talked about with Caleb and Lincoln Riley's offense or any of these things. You know, it's it is hard to take a guy out of a situation and say, okay, this is how he looks now. But in ours, this is why it's going to look a little different or this is why I look the same or whatever. It's it is not a fail safe type of, you know, equation to make. So it's, it is tough, especially with a player like this who has talent, clearly, he's tough as nails. You know, the character stuff's off the charts. The talent is there.

It's just, yeah, what is he, can he consistently make those tight windowed throws when he need him to? Can he consistently bail you out of trouble if, you know, you need to put the game on his back? You know, it's hard to be there quite yet with him. And as a guy that was a basketball first player for so long, like most of his life, it seems like, and then stumbled into, oh, I'm a college quarterback. Those guys, it's just like, sometimes they don't know what they don't know. So I'm sure he does, he's like, yeah, this is the offense I run it. He doesn't even know that he wants to push the ball. that's just what I'm told to do.

So again, I think if he does come back for another year, I'm excited to like, I think he'd be at the top for me, him and Schroder for the 2025 class. I'm creating a storyline in my head that hasn't even happened yet. So like this guy could like he'd come back after the high ankle spray and just keep playing and be okay. But I just wanted to mention him as well because I think that's where I'm at with him. Any other guys that you want to throw in here? This is kind of a wrapped us up. I'm glad we got through a lot. I'm pretty proud of us.

We did. Yes, I know. Carson Beck from Georgia has been really good this year. Well, I should say he's been getting better and better and better. For a guy that really didn't have any experience coming into the year. And I was surprised that they don't have this true stud at running back. They've got a good running back room, but they don't have that true stud they can lean on. Right.

But they've asked him to throw it a lot. And he's done a nice job. And like I said, every game, you see him get more comfortable and push the ball downfield. Now, not having Brock Bowers for here in a couple weeks, that will play a factor in how he performs. But for the most part, Carson Beck has looked good. My favorite maybe mid-round senior in this class is Michael Pratt from Tulane. Oh, yeah. Big fan of Michael Pratt.

He's a football player. Yeah, and he's a guy that could have transferred and gone to a bigger school. And I think the collective that Tulane stepped up and made sure he stayed put. But he's a fourth year senior, so he's another guy that have a decision. He could take that COVID year and maybe, you know, transfer somewhere else, do the Sam Hartman type of deal. Or he could go to the NFL draft. And I think he'd be somewhere in that third to fifth round range. But he's a guy that I don't, you know, I don't think it'll go in the first two rounds.

But he, there's a lot of what he does that, that I like that I think translates well the next level. Yep, right there with you. I think we talked about him a few. He had a game early in the season, I think. And I liked what he was doing. and he cleaned up some of his timing. He was a little quicker anticipating stuff. Another guy that kind of stumbled into playing quarterback.

These guys need their reps, and why I want to bring this up, is that those reps are more valuable to the guy that has been playing the position since they're five years old. You know, and that's been gone to camps every year and has a private quarterback coach in high school and has all this stuff. So those guys are kind of sort of maxed out while a guy like this, like a Prad or Riley Leonard. It's the Josh Allen factor, you know, a guy that didn't grow up going to those camps. I mean, didn't have a Trent quarterback train or anything like that. And he just kept getting better and better and better because he had not hit that ceiling. Every rep, they get more XP in the video game than a guy that's already maxed out at those things.

They don't get as much juice out of each rep that you give. All those madden drills that you're running through. But no, I like what. What about Dylan Gabriel? Does he do anything for you? Oklahoma quarterback former UCF quarterback? Not really. Fun, but not really.

I think he hasn't seen the game that well. I don't think. I think he gets away with some of it. So I like him though. Like I'm not saying like, oh, he's the worst player I've ever seen. I just as an NFL prospect, I think he's more like a fun run around day three guy. Yeah, yeah. I mean, he's, he's efficient. He's, you know, like he doesn't have necessarily one thing that you point to and say,

okay, that's going to get him over the top. You know, his size is okay. The arm's okay. But, you know, he delivers a catchable ball. He's, you know, the way he plays. Yep. Yeah. You know, obviously against Texas, he made some plays when it counted most.

So, you know, I, Oklahoma would be interesting down to stretch, you know, when they, can he do it consistently for 12 games, you know, and play at this high level? So, but he's at least a name that I think has helped himself with what he's done this year. There's so many of these senior quarterbacks. We haven't mentioned Sam Hartman or Cam Ward or, you know, Jordan Travis of Florida State. Right. Um, you know, any of those guys that, you know, you, uh, you think are worthy of the mid round conversation or these all just mid the late round type of players. I look at all those guys mid the late.

Uh, Travis, I think is a lot of fun. He's another one of these guys. And I always say that term run around. And I think that, yes, they might not be a dude as of true blue starter, but I don't think I like them as, I like that archetype as a backup. I like, I always say the hyena key type. Like the guys that are smart enough to, you know, when stuff's in structure, they can do enough. But then can they have that high variance play to make you, you know, if they have to start two games, eke you out of win.

You know, like, because they run around. They're smart. They're tough. They go in there. They're going to play. They're going to know the playbook. So kind of group those guys all together as day three guys. That's kind of my default grading.

But that is also where I throw guys like Brock Purdy in. And, you know, and I'll see how that works out. But it's just kind of that archetype I looked at. We saw Iowa State Brock Purdy last night. Oh, yeah, we did. Monday football. So you just never know and that's going to creep up on you. I did Barnwell show and he was asking.

He's like, would you watch him in college? I was like, I saw him every day at Shrine Week. And I'm telling you guys, if you saw him at Shrine Week, you would not be saying, but you'd be like, how did he go to the seventh round? You'd be like, how did someone draft him? Right, right. Well, I mean, he was very close to going on draft. I know, but that's what I'm saying.

It's like, even that. Right, right. No, but it's, yeah, you never know situations and everything. But that is coaching matters. It does. It does. graduations matter. Yes.

You know. We're talking with some of these guys we like and we're saying some of the systems aren't conducive for them. We don't know. It matters so much. It is. All I know is this is not the last. We'll be talking about these quarterbacks.

This is going to be a conversation we continue to have. My updated top 50 comes out next week. Yeah. I'm kind of navigating how many quarterbacks are going to make it. How, you know, that's, that's, it's always tough when you include a quarterback in regular rankings. because they're, they're just, the positions are weighted differently, you know?

It's so hard. Marvin Harrison Jr. is the best player in the country, in my opinion, or the best prospect in this draft, but, you know, quarterback like Caleb or Drake, may they impact the game more. So do they go above him?

You know, it's always tough. Quarterbacks really shouldn't be in the same rankings as other positions, but, you know, it is what it is. It's a half grade inflation. It's like,

it's, that's always like, oh, you have a second round grade on them. Would you take them to first? Yeah. Then why do you have a second round grade on them? But, well,

it's how it works. It's how it works. That's it. I know. I know. I know that's some people are going to, some people just can't wrap their heads around it. But it's how it goes. No, thank you so much, Dan.

This was a lot of fun. We teased you guys last week with some offense to tackle talk, you know, just for the junkies for that. So let's get back to the pretty boys with the quarterbacks. But thank you guys so much for joining us at Prospects of Pros. We will be here every single Wednesday and see you guys next time. This was the athletic football show's prospects to pros podcast.