The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Prospects to Pros: Dane Brugler’s 2023 NFL mock draft 3.0 + Combine standouts at each position

Episode Date: March 8, 2023

Who does Dane Brugler have going No. 1 in his latest mock draft? Dane joins Andy Staples and NFL.com analyst Lance Zierlein to talk about the teams who could trade up, the number of QBs in the top 5 and much more. Then, the guys go position-by-position discussing the players who stood out to them at the NFL Combine.Follow Andy on Twitter: @Andy_StaplesFollow Dane on Twitter: @dpbruglerFollow Lance on Twitter: @LanceZierleinSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTube1:19 QB impressions from the combine17:08 Jalen Carter19:30 What will Houston do at No. 2?24:02 Could the Bears trade down twice?25:40 Combine standouts position-by-position…26:05 QB29:47 WR33:58 OL37:24 TE41:45 RB45:32 DL/LB1:00:12 S1:05:40 CBToday's show is brought to you by...Atlassian: For projects impossible alone, visit www.atlassian.comPhilo: Sign up today at philo.tv and use promo code MAYS to get 50% off your first month Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to Prospects to Pros, where we talk about all the guys that are about to get drafted in the NFL, the ones who just got drafted in the NFL, everything in between. We're definitely focused on the guys about to be drafted because we all just got back back from the combine. Dane and I were podcasting away. Lance Erline was on the field for four days of workouts, and we got big stuff going on. And we're going to get to our lesser-known winners of the combine with some insight from Dane and Lance in a second. But first, I feel like we need a siren for this, Dane.

You have a new mock draft out. Mock draft 3.0. And it is a banger. Especially if you're a Bears fan. If you're a Bears fan, this is your favorite mock draft. It has nothing to do with the players you're selecting because you've traded down twice. amassed a stockpile of future number one picks. But you did that, you did that day because you were,

you're projecting quarterback needy teams moving up to make sure they get their guy. Right. And I mean, coming out of Indianapolis, there's so much information that you hear that, you know, just talking to people. And it's, okay, time to parse all of that and figure out what is fact, what's fiction, what has the most likely chance of happening. And when you look at these quarterbacks, you look at the teams that are going to be jockeying for position,

it just feels like, okay, we take a team like the Colts, where you have a first year head coach, you have a general manager who he knows if he doesn't get this right, he might never run a draft again. He might never be in this position to be a general manager and be at the head of the room, building the draft board, doing all that, and Chris Ballard.

And then you've got an owner who's a complete wildcard. And it just feels like as I was leaving Lucas O'Oyal Stadium on Saturday night watching that CJ Stroud performance, I came away thinking, you know what? This might be the guy that all three can agree on, that all three look at and say, you know what, he's the accuracy, the ability to come in and compete right away. And just there's so much going for CJ Stroud that I feel like Indianapolis, if they move up to one, now it's going to be expensive. they know that, but this is a team and organization that's been compromising on the quarterback

the last, you know, since Andrew Luck retired. And it's time to stop compromising and go get your guy. Now, who is that guy? We don't know that. But in this mock draft, I went with Stroud at number one. Lance, tell me, what do you think about that? Well, I mean, I could totally see it. I went into this combine expecting him to be the most accurate and he was.

Like for me, nothing changed with C.J. Stroud. I'll tell you what was different being on the field is seeing what Will Levis looks like, you know, in person, seeing what Anthony Richardson looks like in person, seeing them stand next to Stroud. And Stroud is not the physical body type that those two guys are. He's not. It's not an impressive. It's more like a standard quarterback, maybe. And then having Bryce Young stand next to, at the time, Levis wasn't there, was Stroud and Richardson. Bryce Young and it's like, Bryce Young looked like a skater kid.

He had his backpack on, he had his backpack on. He looked like a skater kid next to them. And I thought, number one, as expected, Bryce came in over 200 and didn't work out. So then when he gets to his pro day, he will not weigh. He'll probably be, you know, somewhere in the 190s and he will throw him work out. In hindsight, smart move for Bryce Young not to take off the hoodie and put on the shirt and throw next to those guys because I don't I think it could have hurt him. Just, you know, when you see him next to those guys throwing, you got one guy who's super

accurate in Stroud, you got one guy with a great body type and a big arm in Richardson. And then you'd have Young going at the very back end of that after DTR and Clayton Tune, you would have, you know, eventually gotten to Bryce Young. And he would have had to have been either as accurate as C.J. Stroud. if he wouldn't have, it would have, I think, hurt his stock. So I think in hindsight, just getting to 200 pounds is a big deal. Because not forever he'll be a 200-pound quarterback. He'll be 204th quarterback.

Forever. So in the books, even though he didn't play in the 200s, he'll be a 204-pound quarterback. So we can't go back and say, hey, here's a quarterback that did it who was under 200 pounds. That doesn't exist. He wasn't under 200 pounds. But I think waiting until his pro day and not taking a chance next to a couple of guys with big cannons and Levis.

And Levis was humming it now. People aren't talking about Levis much because nobody likes him. He's just, he's everyone's least favorite quarterback for some reason. He's just trying to mind his own business. And people go out of their way to, like, slap him across the face on the way to tell how great Richardson is. They walk by and just go slap. And by the way, Richardson's so much better than him.

Levis actually, I thought, I mean, he showed it. He did show a gun. He can really drive the ball. You can feel it down on the field. but Stroud, I thought, got started off a little just average, and then it really picked up. And what I thought was impressive was he was able to match Richardson with deep ball, with deep ball distance, which I thought was just, you know, kind of impressive.

So I don't have a problem with Dane putting at number one going C.J. Stroud. I really don't. I think he's more ready, certainly. I mean, to me, it goes Bryce Young than below that Stroud. And then the other two guys are high ceiling low, floor guys. So if you're going to talk about getting a guy who that you want to be game ready, you got two guys potentially who are those guys, even though nobody's really game ready as a rookie. And then one of them happens to be bigger than the other one and actually more accurate

than the other one. So if you bet on Bryce Young, part of it is you're betting on intangibles and focus and poise and consistency. If you want accuracy in the body type, then Stroud's going to probably be your guy. And I, and to Dane's point, I said this on Twitter. I truly don't know how these players are going to stack up on people's boards. I don't know. There's a lot of teams that might like Levis a lot. I think Daniel Jeremiah told me he had talked to teams that had Bryce Young third, someone who had Adam second.

I think these team boards are going to be greatly fluctuating from team to team what quarterbacks look like. Especially with Anthony Richardson in these interviews, I got mixed reviews from teams on how his interviews went. Like some said, you know, he did pretty well. Others said, there's a lot he just doesn't know. Like, he's just, he just has so, like they were really not surprised because, you know, it's expected.

He's a registered sophomore, 13 career starts under 400 career pass attempts. So, yeah, it wasn't a surprise, but I think it was a little more eye-opening, just how much, how the gap that he has to go for him to be where teams want him to be to go out there and start a game tomorrow. It's a big gap. He can't. He can't. He's not ready. And you can see, by the way, he attacked zones. Teams started figuring out they could zone them up. And he didn't have a great game playing for painting pictures and zones. He just, he doesn't throw out the anticipation. That comes with time. You have to play football. So he came out a year early. I mean, I think it would have really benefited him to make his NIL money and stay another year. You're

going to be just as athletic. You'll be just as impressive. You just would have learned more football potentially, and I think it would have really helped him. But he's still going to get drafted eyes. Combine helped them. I don't think there's any way around it. But I want to bring this up because you guys both are in the media. I think we'll all appreciate this. You know, I was reading, I'm not going to say who,

but there was something that came out last year about how impressive Malik Willis was in Combine interviews. And then I talked to some teams and I brought it up. And my question said, I hear Willis was really great. And like, he was okay. You know, not great. Like, you know, none of these guys were great in interviews. And I said, oh, I saw a media report that he was killing it in Combine interviews.

He said, he was okay. I mean, there was nothing special. He's got a lot to learn about football. But, no, I didn't kill it in interviews. That's one team I talked to who said that. The pro day, everyone got really excited about Blake Willis's pro day. The narrative, and I think it's pushed more from Twitter. And frankly, the 24-hour shows that are on all the time with sports

were Malik Willis, can he pick it? Who's going to get first? I mean, we all were asking that question. Who's going to get picked first? And then all of a sudden, Malik Willis, there's rumors he could go to the Lions. He could end up going to the Lions. He went in the third round. And the reason I bring this up is because we finally reached a point where the reality of tape.

And by the way, his tape was not good last year. So Malik Willis shouldn't have been drafted. the first off of tape. The reality was the NFL drafted him on tape and Twitter and social media and the media had narratives that were out of control on him. And so it was like this shocking turn of event when he went third. We had and we had the trick shots by Zach Wilson and he got went second and then we see trick shots from Malik Willis the same throw. And it's like, wow, you know it is pro day. He went third round. Anthony Richardson, huge athletic boost. Now I'm seeing stories about he's killing it in his interviews. Dane just said he just gave you an opposite

angle there where he said, you know, he's still got a lot to learn. So the media starts saying he's killing in interviews. This passes on. You see the highlight reel plays. Now, I don't think we're going to see another Malik Willis 2.0 where the media narrative is so high on him. I'm just telling you the tape is not as good as you think it is from the highlight reels. And I know. No, it's not on Will Levis. But neither of these guys did great. And you watched him, Andy. Tell the truth, you watched him.

You're a Gator. Yeah. No, it's not. It's highly inconsistent. There's some great highlight plays that are followed by a bunch of what the hell was that? I mean, the Florida State games are priming. I went back and rewatched every three he made the Florida State game. He couldn't miss for about a quarter and a half.

And then for the last two and a half quarters, it was just awful. and I think he finished nine for 27 in that game. Now, there's some drops, sure. But there are also some things you cannot explain. And like, as far as the narrative about the killing it in the combat interviews, I'm always very hesitant to report that. Obviously, I did a story on Anthony Richardson. I met up with his team, him and his team after the performance on Saturday.

And I like those guys. They're the same guys who trained Brock Purdy last year. they're really interesting people they're not that you know I think they do a good job but is their job to present the player in the most positive light possible

so of course they're going to tell you that they're killing the combine interviews and they're killing the team interviews but I trust what the teams say about that and so like what Dane said tracks with what I heard too

that everybody likes him He's a very nice guy. He seems to want to work really hard. And there's a lot that needs to be learned. Now, he's 20. That was like, Wikipedia's got his age wrong. Don't trust Wikipedia. Wikipedia had him at 21 for the whole, you know, season.

He's 20 right now. He turns 21 in May, I believe. So he's considerably younger than most of the prospects we're talking about. And that may have something to do with it. he may get a little grace because of that. We'll see. But Lance, I'm with you. The tape thing is hard to ignore.

Now, he did put some good things on tape. Like, Malik Willis's last year at Liberty, there was some ugly, ugly, ugly tape. Yeah. And Richardson's was inconsistent, but probably not that bad. Well, and I think that it's... Oh, that's right. It's tough because a guy like this, you want on the field, getting reps because that's how he's going to get better, but you can't put him out there right now.

And that's where the hangup is with Anthony Richardson is we can't play him right now, but that's how he's going to get better. So, you know, we're just going to sit him. And how much better is he going to get sitting for a year as a rookie? I just, I'm not, I don't know, it's tough. But again, at the same time, we're not saying that he's going to fall to the third round like Malie Willis. I mean, Lance, you still think he's going top 10, right?

Yeah, I do. I actually, my mock draft comes out today, and I've got him going forth, but to the Colts. I've got them going to say, you do. I don't think there's any doubt that when you watch him throw, see, for me, I actually saw things I like from Anthony Richardson throwing the ball. Yeah, he sprayed some high, that's who he's going to be.

He's going to be Cam Newton. He's going to, and even Josh Allen, they're going to spray some. That's going to happen. But if you're a home run hitter, then hit home runs, too. I'm okay with strikeouts. As long as your launch angles hitting home runs, I'm okay with some strikeouts. That's going to be okay.

But I need you to have a few more singles if you're Anthony Richardson. I need you to have a little better plate discipline when it's third down and eight yards to go. You've got to be able to check one down, make an easy throw, and move on and punt and move on to the next play and not throw an interception. So I think all that stuff has to happen. But the way he comported himself, the way he, his demeanor on the field, the way he threw the ball, the way it came out. I actually came away way more impressed.

And I'll tell you what happened for me was watching him in person. And it happened with Smith and Jigma too. But watching him in person, I was able to, I was able to really think about the boom side more than the bus side. For the first time, I've been in the middle. But I was able to kind of start to see him having, like I could see headlines where he has these big games. and I'm thinking, why was I ever, you know, that concern?

Like he had special talent. It was a weird thing. I was going through a projection in my mind thinking, you know, I could see him doing special things for the first time. It's hard when you see someone who is that special of an athlete up close to think about the negative possibilities because there just aren't that many human beings like that. And, you know, Levis is, it's funny because if Anthony Richardson, weren't in this draft, we'd be saying a lot of the same things about Levis, who is a very good-

30 pounds. 29. They both look like a create-a-player on Madden. And like, I would never wear a shirt if I were either one of them. No, big hands. Both of them have enormous hands. Both of them have big velocity. Both of them, you know, you're right.

Will Levis is 229, and he's chisled. He looks good. And I think Will Levis is the forgotten quarterback. I'm kind of down on Will Levis personally. but I don't think it's fair what's happening to them, if I'm being honest. I think if you're talking about one thing with Anthony Richardson, and then you don't have Will Levis in that same conversation, I've made a point of putting Richardson and Levis in the same conversations

because to me they're the same quarterbacks. I mean, they're different types of quarterbacks, but they're in the same tier. High high ceilings, but disappointing bus level, level, you know, floors. So I've got a higher grade on Richardson, because I think that his athleticism and ability to run are always going to trump a guy who is a tough runner, but not the same type of explosive runner. We saw with Justin Fields.

You can lose a bunch of games, but still pile up stats like Justin did running to football. It's just that eventually you can't win games that way. Like eventually, and you're right, it's so tantalizing to see it. You're right, Andy. You see it and you're like, oh, my gosh, I can't believe what I'm seeing. And then you see Joe Burrow and he's pasty looking, he doesn't have a tan. and then he's just dicing you from the pocket. Bang, bang, bang, bang.

None of that has to do with how high he jumped. None of it had to do with how fast he ran. It's all about accuracy. And that's why you start going back to C.J. Stroud, you know, frankly. Which is why Dane's got the Colts trading up to get him at number one, which makes a lot of sense. Dane, I want to ask you, you've got Will Anderson going three of the Cardinals. And then you have Jalen Carter going five to the Seahawks. Does that have anything to do with?

with Jalen Carter's legal situation, or is that because you think people will trade up for quarterbacks and the Cardinals need an edge rusher? I mean, it's Jalen Carter's, it's just a tough situation right now. You know, we don't know enough because the teams don't know enough. Once the teams do more digging, because this situation, I mean, they already had some concerns just because Jalen Carter's, you know, the maturity, things like that.

They didn't, they weren't worried about anything criminal, but they were worried about the maturity. This situation, which they didn't know was coming, now we have updated evidence of, you know, some questionable decision-making, so teams need to go back and figure out, okay, what's really going on here. So that's,

it's a little up in the year with Jalen Carter at this point, but I still feel like, you know, he's too talented to fall too far. And when you look at it, the Cardinals, they're a brand-new regime, first-year general manager, first-year head coach. I don't know that they'd really go for a guy like Jalen

Carter when you, meanwhile you've got Seattle, you know, Schneider and Pete Carroll. And, you know, they're more, a little more season. They, you know, you could see them maybe taking a chance more so than Arizona. I heard from a lot of Arizona fans who were mad that I didn't give them the same deal that I gave the Bears in number four, because I had the Bears moving from four to nine so the Panthers could move up and take Richardson. I think the Arizona ones out of there badly, according to the fans. So, you know, I think that it's interesting with the quarterbacks because I had seven quarterbacks or four quarterbacks when in the top seven.

I was fascinated to learn that's never happened before. Like I am going through the history and we've never seen four quarterbacks going to the top seven picks. And I was like, wow. Like, could this quarterback class really make history doing that? But yeah, it's possible. And so. Lance's eyes twitching right now. I mean, yeah, it's a quarterback class.

It's very flawed, but you know, you can understand the optimism. But I will, I tell you this. And Lance, I'll be fascinated to get your read too. Talking to people in Houston or in Indianapolis, I was interested in the amount of people that are not convinced that Houston's going quarterback at number two. They feel like there is a realistic scenario where Houston's going to continue to build up the roster because they still have two first-strapers.

next year, you know, and so they don't, if the right quarterback, you know, they don't feel like they need the pressure to go up to one, but if the right quarterback's out there and two, they're not, they don't feel like they need to reach for that position. They can go with a position player, trade back, whatever, and then look to address it next year. And, you know, Jimmy Garoppos is your starter next year or whatever it ends up being. So it makes sense. It makes sense. I don't believe it. I think it's smoke. Here's what I think is happening. if I'm trying to read the tea leaves or go through my you know as a detective going cyclopedia brown on you I would say that they want that out there to as many people as possible to diminish

any trade leverage the bears have I think they want to make sure other teams know that the Texans have no interest in drafting quarterbacks and no one feels the need to get into a race with the Texans to get to the first pick um you know what we're going to see this is going to be really interesting because you're it's not like this is this is a good quarterback it's this quarterback draft is fine you know it's it's good it's got its holes here and there so it is strange that we're having you know a lot of people thought the the 2000 and uh 21 quarter draft quarter two 2020 one quarterback draft was a more explosive draft you had justin fields you had zach wilson you had tray lance you had obviously Trevor Lawrence and then mac jones

is wherever Mac Jones was. On paper, that one's better than this one. But you're right. I wouldn't be surprised if four quarterbacks go to top seven. I certainly think it's very possible. It happens inside the top nine picks. I think the Houston Texans may be putting it out there to try to tamp down any urges for people to start getting really aggressive from a trade standpoint because they want to be able to draft Bryce Young at two without having anyone try to move up.

And I think what Ryan Poles' job to do is now is get as much smoke out there to get the interest up. So what we're hearing is, well, the Bears actually like a lot of different players. And the Bears, you know, the Bears already know. Ryan Poles came out yesterday. I already know I can get a first rounder in 2014, the 2024 and, yeah, 24 and 25. He already said, I already know I can get two first rounders. Why do you say that? That's a little brazen.

Rob, oh, for you saying that. I mean, I don't know if I'm. buying it. Maybe he can get it. And maybe that hopefully knows he can get it from like a team. You know, he might be saying that because, you know, who's telling him that Washington commanders. Okay, that might be true. Maybe Washington's offered that and you've got to take the 16th pick now and drop all the way down. So Ryan might be telling the truth. But the reason he's putting it out there is he wants

every team to hear it so that they will be interested. That's his job. The job of the Texans now is to try to, hey, let's keep this cool. The job of Chris Ballard is like, hey, Jim Mersey, let's stop saying things out loud, you know? And I do think there's some smoke going on personally right now. There's jockey. This is my favorite time of the year because as a reporter in most stories, somebody involved has an incentive to tell you the truth. In the pre-draft environment, no one is incentivized at all to tell you the truth.

Everyone is incentivized to lie to you. And that, but honestly, that's why I usually, I mean, I've learned who to trust, who not to trust. But when teams talk about other teams, that's where it gets interesting because there are some truths in there. You just have to find them. You have to, you have to, you know, really go mining for those truths because not everything will be the truth. But when teams talk about other teams, there are bits and pieces of truth in there. It just, it can be hard to figure, it separate the fact from the fiction. It's, it is going to be a lot of jockey.

Because, well, because Davis Mills led a really nice touchdown drive at the end of the season. That's why there's going to be a lot of jockeying. Because if the Texas were sitting at number one, this would be so simple. They would be picking a quarterback, whichever one they wanted, and that would be that. And then the jockeying would happen underneath. But with the bears in their situation, I mean, Dane, what you propose in your mock where they trade down twice is, I mean, that is the dream scenario for them. because that way, if Justin Fields is not the guy, if they figure out at the end of the next season

that Justin Fields is not the guy long term, they have the capital to move up and get Caleb Williams or Drake May or whoever the flavor of the month is at that point. If I'm Ryan Poles, I'm almost going into, like right now, I'm thinking that Justin Fields is not the guy. And if he turns out to be the guy, great. But I'm positioning myself as if he's not going to be the guy. And so next year, I'm going to have multiple first rounders,

multiple picks to go and rectify that. But yeah, in this scenario, they end up with five picks in the top 64 and two additional picks first rounders next year. So three total first round picks and next year's draft. And that's exactly, I mean, there's no 2025 first rounders, but I think Ryan Poles would feel pretty comfortable with that type of haul. Plus, you know, and I've got him going Lucas Van Ness at number nine, who, you know, he's a Chicago kid.

He's dating. Cole commits younger sister. So a lot of fun connections. Do we have a Brady Quinn, AJ Hawks situation going on? Right. Exactly. Exactly. So, but I also think, you know, you think of Ryan Poles of what he's, Ryan Poles is a long-term thinker. He's not focused on 2023. He is focused on what's, what do we look like three years from now, five years from now. And a guy like Lucas Vandes, who is an ascending player, he fits that profile for what Poles is looking for. Well, this is going to be fascinating to watch. But let's talk about the guys we saw over the weekend who are not as sexy, who may not be winding up in anybody's first round mocks. The guys who are going to help teams who may have helped themselves over the weekend. And we've gone position by position and everybody's made their lists. So, Dane, I'm going to give you the floor. What position would you like to start with?

Well, let's just start at quarterback. back. I was in the stands, but Lance, I know you were on the field, so we each are coming at this from different vantage points. And I'll be interested to hear who you have to say. And the purpose of this exercise is to kind of point out the non-obvious, the guys that maybe didn't, were obvious winners from the combine, but guys that stood out in some type of positive way. And for me, I thought that was Jared Hall. I really liked how he went out there and, was spinning the football. He looked good on the move. What about you, Lance?

What was a quarterback for you that really stood out? I thought, actually, Aidan O'Connell through the deep ball. I was kind of, number one, he was getting his lower body through. It looks like he's made some corrections on his delivery, because on tape, he just doesn't get his lower body into the throw enough, and it really has an impact on the amount of velocity he generates for being a, you know, a taller quarterback. I thought he did a better job with that.

And I thought he threw deep balls really accurately. He had some post throws and some nine routes that he threw with really good accuracy, he floated it in there. I don't know that I'm going to change my grade on him necessarily. But I thought he, you know, I thought he accounted himself quite well. And then Jaron Hall, you know, it's funny. I thought Jaron was up and down. But on tape to me, Jaron Hall is the guy that I would say out of the group,

the conglomerate of DTR and Clayton Tune and Aden O'Connell. When I watched Sharon Hall throw on tape, I actually thought he was really poised, was really accurate, through some, had some things from an accuracy standpoint that I really liked. He was bad at the Senior Bowl. Didn't really play very well at Senior Bowl practices.

Kind of his profile went down, but I didn't study him as much at the combat. I mean, I was watching his throws. I might have been watching wide receivers a little more. But I think Jaron Hall is going to surprise. I think he's going to be that guy in the fourth round that comes off the board. I think he's going to separate himself from Tune and Aiden O'Connell a little bit in DTR. I think that's going to be the guy after Hinden Hooker.

It may be, Jaron Hall may be that next guy. Yeah. And you think of like a team like the Giants and like, you know, a team that maybe is looking for a young quarterback and what they do with the movement on that offense. Like, Jaron Hall would be a great fit. He's so good on the move. that's where he's comfortable. You know, he's an older guy.

He's got a chance to be Brock Purdy. He's got a chance to be Brock Purdy for that offense. I mean, if I'm the Houston, Texans, then I take a quarterback in the second round, and he's there, and Jaron Hall's there in a forth round, I mean, you got a lot of, there's a lot of, you already have Davis Mills, so you really can't do that. But I could see a team that's trying,

maybe the Green Bay Packers saying, hey, he actually runs an offense that we were, like he would look good in an offense we run. Let's get him as a middle round. on pick as a backup and then we you know if we don't love Jordan love we can see what we've got with him maybe he's got some purdy elements yeah i i think you're right there's just about the the usage and that's what it comes down to is is where were these guys fit like aton o'connell is an accurate pocket guy so if that's what you need in a backup he can be your backup right now and you can feel

comfortable putting him in the game if you need to and i i think that's a the juries The Beren Hall thing is very interesting because that would be, there are certain teams that he just fits really well. And the Packers make a lot of sense. So let us move on to the guys they were throwing to. Who stood out to you guys? So Trey Palmer ran the fastest 40 among all the receivers. So he doesn't really count.

But I'm still going to say him because it was the on-field work that I was really impressed with with Tray Palmer. I thought the way, I mean, obviously the kids fast, but catching the football, tracking the football, I thought he did a really nice job. Yeah, I'm trying to, because I don't want to say, because I let me just, at the top, I'll say Zay Flowers and Josh Downs killed it. I mean, absolutely killed it with their work. I thought they were outstanding. I thought the workout for Matt Landers is going to open some more people's eyes and they're going to have to go take a look because when you're six, four, 200 pounds, and you're running in a four threes with a one-five-one split and a 37-inch

vertical jump, you better go back and take a strong look at that guy because there's not a lot of wide receivers who look like that. I would say guys who did better, let's see, oh, Copeland, Jacob Copeland, Jacob Copeland was super smooth in his race. routes. And it was fun. I was watching all these wide receiver coaches were down there running the wide receivers through the routes that they were going to run and telling them how to run it. And including Keenan McCardell, who I know just a little bit, who's with Minnesota. And, you know, he came from Maryland. As a matter of fact, he went from Maryland to, I think maybe directly to Minnesota or maybe he was a different NFL team. He had Stefan Diggs at

Maryland. When they recruited Diggs, he was there as a receiver's coach. And he gave me a great intel on him when I was one of my early years is I think it was either my first or second year at nflb.com and like he nailed stephan dix he had a nail dead to rights anyway um i thought copeland watching copeland work around the corner a lot of guys were falling on the hard speed outs that were like intermediate beyond 10 type like 12 yard routes and they would fly around this cone and they were slipping on the field turf and it was the guys who were able to keep their feet beneath them and, you know, run the routes with efficient movements. Josh Down, Smith and Jigba.

And in Copeland, Jacob Copeland did a really nice job, I thought, as a pass catcher and a route runner out there from Maryland. That's one of the guys that stood out to me. It's funny because Copeland left Florida, went to Maryland to get more playing time, more touches, and, man, Anthony Richardson could have really used him last year. And that Maryland, I mean, they had talent at receiver. And so he, Copeland didn't get it really, I don't think he started a game. The production wasn't great.

So, you know, he's a guy that has talent always has. It's just a matter of can he get on the field and get consistent targets. So the one for me is not necessarily what he did in the on-field drills. It's what he did in the testing because I already know from his tape that he's good and he's productive. And that's A.T. Perry from Wake Forest. but he had a 4-4-740, he had 11-1 broad, 35-inch vertical.

So showing some more athletic traits where he didn't necessarily come off as super explosive and athletic on tape, but he was extremely productive on tape. So if he's got these traits and he produces in the offense he played in, that makes me a little more apt to want to take him. I think the big number with AT-T Perry is 198.

And for a guy that's 6-3-5, just that lean body structure, how skinny he is, that's the biggest worry that teams have is the lack of play strength. But I do think that 447 number did help him because that was another concern that I know teams had is just, what's his long speed? Could he consistently win vertically? And 4-47, you know, not an amazing number, but I think it's a solid number for him. So, all right, we've gone quarterback receiver. Do we want to go to the offensive line now?

Yeah. I mean, I always want to go to offensive line. I want to hear Lance waxboard. This is all you, Lance. The stage is yours. Well, first of all, let me put on the record that I think Dane does a really good job with the offensive line. But you can always tell who kind of knows the position and who's just kind of riding along

with the rest of the crew. And Dane knows his offensive line. So never think that Dane doesn't know what he's talking about because he absolutely does. I think Matthew Bergeron really helped himself. And he's not a guy who's, he's kind of off the radar a little bit from a general sense. But he's always been teetering on the brink of the first round, I think. I'm not 100% sold on him being a tackle. I think his hand issues, his hand placement is punch.

I think that's going to take a while to correct. But he is a guy who's 6.5 and a quarter. He actually measured taller than I thought he was going to be. He was 318. And his reach was 33 and three force arm length, which is, you know, pretty solid. I once again, I think he's going to be a fail at tackle, moved a guard type of guy. But I think he really, I think he may have pushed himself into the first round. So he definitely helped himself.

He's not way off the beaten path. But Blake Freeland had a workout also. He came in at 302 pounds. He was heavier than that at the senior bowl. He got down so he could run faster. Guess what? He ran a 4-9-6-40 with a 16-8 split, which was terrific. He had a 37-inch vertical leap and a broad jump of 10 feet.

Blake Freeland, I've seen a picture. I talked to his dad. He showed me a picture when Blake Freeland's carrying 325 pounds during COVID, where he really just got into working out hardcore. He was like the mountain on Game of Thrones. I mean, he looked incredible, but he said he doesn't feed. He feels too slow at that way. I think Blake Freeland's a guy who can weigh 318, 320, which is important when you're 6'7 plus.

So I think he can carry plenty of weight. I don't think that's going to be a problem. But he's a very athletic mover. He tested well. And being over 300 pounds of combine and being even heavier than that at senior bowl, I think he's a tackle. I mean, I think he helped himself. Nees to be on a wide zone scheme. Let the man reach.

He's good at it. He's built for it. I mean, that's what he had at BYU. And these traits are perfect for that, for that piece of it. Now, pass pro is its own thing. But he looks like if you could build a tackle for a wide zone offense, that's what you build. I really like Braden Daniels, Utah. I thought he was moving pretty good.

And for a guy that has that position flex, you got to people at Utah, they rave about him. and the positional versatility that he offers, tackle guard. They even can play center possibly. So, Bray and Daniels is one of those guys that stood out. John Gaines from UCLA, the way he was moving. Good workout. Yeah, on the interior can play guard, can play center. The UCLA coaches speak really highly of the character,

the way he carries himself, the way he works. And then the testing numbers and his positional workout, I thought were both outstanding. So let's go to the tight ends. Obviously, Darnell Washington suck the oxygen out of the tight end conversation by just being Darnell Washington and everything. We've talked about what Darnell Washington can be. But, again, this is a really deep class.

Some of these guys looked really good. Will Mallory ran really fast. And I think, I mean, he's a move tight end. You kind of expected that. But I really liked Sam Laporta. I thought he showed some. athleticism. And let's face it, Iowa's offense stinks. So there's a chance he could be a lot better in the NFL than he was in college. Yeah. And it's, when you talk to scouts about him,

they don't bring up Hawkinson or Noah Fann. They bring up George Kittle when you talk about Sam Leporta. And that ties into the toughness and, you know, just the way that, you know, he goes about his business. I want to mention Zach Coots from Old Dominion, who had unreal numbers. I mean, just across the board, fantastic numbers. But his positional work, I thought, was really good.

I mean, Lance, did you, would you see him catching the football? You know, I didn't pay much attention to him. I was watching the other guys. I didn't pay as much attention to Coons because I just feel like he's a workout warrior, to be honest with you. I think his workouts are.

they're mind-boggling. What Coons did, and I'm pulling them up right now, they're ridiculous. I mean, he ran a 455. It's 6-7 and 3-8s, 255. You basically, I mean, the stride length that that requires or get your strides up to par in 40 yards is impressive. But he had a 40-inch vertical jump. He had a 10-foot-8 broad jump. I mean, those are just crazy, crazy numbers.

That's quarterback numbers. Yeah, I mean, they really are. And so the guy that kind of caught my attention a little bit was Will Mallory. And Will Mallory, I know he's not going to be a great blocker. He has kind of average size of 239 pounds. But I think Will Mallory is making me kind of go back and take a little, take a little bit more of a look at Will Mallory. Let me put it that way. I'm just, I want to make sure that I have him right. I know I have Britton Strange right. I think Britain's Strange may have opened some people's eyes. Nothing crazy with his 40 time. He was a 4-7, but the explosive stuff was pretty good.

I think in space, what's interesting to me is he plays fast. So I'm curious if you had any thoughts on him because in talking to teams, he's not a secret. I thought he was kind of my secret, but the team's all just like, yeah, Brent Strange is a good player. I don't know where you see him or how you rank him or what your thoughts are in him yet. Dane, but I think Brenton Strange is going to be a guy that maybe goes higher than people expect from Penn State. Yeah, my initial grade on him was a fourth. And now that I kind of go back

and what grade do you have on? I had, I had, well, I have a starting grade, but my, my draft projection where I think he'll go is, I believe I think he's going to go in the fourth. Yeah, I've got third, fourth. So I think you're right. I think that's where he goes. It's my grade on him. is I project them to be a future start. Yeah, it's tough, right? Because there's so many tight ends in this group that, you know, like when I did my top 100, I wanted to get, you know, Luke Scoodmaker in there.

I wanted to get, you know, there's tight ends that you know you want in the top 100, and then you just run out of spots and a guy like Britain Strange or Davis Allen or some other guys that you think has, they have a chance, a real chance to be players in this league. You know, they didn't fit in the top 100. But you can foresee a path where they become, guy. And with Strange, he's exactly, he fits that profile. And it's not just the movement. It's, he'll catch the football, take a hit. Like, he's, there's a toughness factor to him.

You know, I feel special teams. What do you give you on offense as a versatile piece that can line up in the backfield, can line up in a slot, can do different things for you. So Strange, he's a good player. I think you're right. Doesn't get nearly enough attention. The running backs, we've talked about this could be a potentially deep class that you could find value in the lower rounds. The one, again, not necessarily what he did on the field. I already know his tapes good that stood out was Devon A. Chain, who he knew was fast, but he's fast, fast, fast, 4.32. And I realize there are going to be concerns about his size and running between the tackles. but again, go back and watch and play at Texas A&M,

and then you know he's that fast, and you know he can return kicks. I feel like that's a lot of value there. But who, Lance, who on the field really stood out to you in the running back group? God, it's so tricky sometimes for running back. I thought Tai J. Spears would be one. I'm pulling up my running backs right now. How about Bijon?

How good? I mean, how good is that guy? My goodness. He's really good. You know, he's had two ACL tears in the same knee. So some teams are going to be afraid of them. Wait, wait, we're talking about Spears. Sorry, sorry.

I mentioned, I mentioned Bejohn. I just want to make sure people know we're not talking about Bejon. We're talking about Spears. Oh, yeah, we're talking about Tycho Spears. Yeah, yeah. It's the guy. I thought another guy who stood out was, I wish we would have seen McBride

because he's a guy. a lot. De Nerec Prince, actually. I didn't see that coming. Is one of those guys where I had already kind of, my grade's not great on him. And I said, I'm going to look, I'm just want to make sure. I just want to make sure what I'm seeing is what I'm seeing. Deuce Vaughn, holy moly.

Deuce Vaughn is made for an event like that. I mean, Deuce Vaughn is actually a really great football player. He just happens to be 5'5 and 179 pounds. 27-inch arms. I mean, he's one of the smallest. Historically, you can't find running backs that size. They don't exist. They don't exist.

You can tell me about Jock Quiz Rogers all you want. Quiz is like close to 200 pounds. Big, thick, lower body. Sproles is built differently. Yeah, they're built. You can't find guys, Deuce's size. And yet, Deuce is a competitor. He's tough.

He can work out of the backfield. He's got wiggle. He's got speed. like, I don't know. I don't know what to do with them. I put a six-round grade on him because I think somebody's going to take him, but historically, teams are just not going to be okay with his size. And yet when you watch him work out and you see the foot quickness and you just,

and all you can think of is, is there any way like how could we use him? What could we do with the guy like this? Can we run him out at wide receiver some or how do we use him? You're trying to figure out a way to get a good football player on the field. And that's why his combine workout to me was so important. because maybe it makes you think even harder about getting outside the box with a good football player who lacks size. But it doesn't lack toughness.

He had plenty of carries. Go look at his touches. Show me all his injuries with his touches. Well, and so I came up with this theory based on Tyler Lockett, actually, when he played at K State. But if you have an offense where there's one main weapon and everybody knows you're going to force feed that weapon and he still puts up numbers, you draft that person.

And that is deuce Fawn. It's not a bad thought. No, that was Drake London last year. I mean, everybody knew he was getting the football. I mean, he had like 15 targets every single game and you still couldn't stop him. So, you know, he didn't run a 40-year dash last year, still went top 10, first receiver off the board.

So no, I think, yeah, that makes total sense. All right, let's move on to the defensive side of the ball. We talked about Jalen Carter earlier. So we'll go interior D-line to, start with. I'm curious, Lance, what did you think of Zach Pickens? Oh, that's the name I wrote down too. Yeah. Yeah, Zach Pickens was, I actually liked him on tape. It's just he wasn't consistent enough. I had more of a, I had more of a low-end starter, high-end rotational backup thing. And then after I watched him work out and I talked to one of his coaches, I feel a little better about him.

I ended up, you know, my new grades that will be coming out after the combine where I make some shifts. based on size, links and things, because we don't get a lot of these numbers on underclassmen. You're not going to have them. He's a guy with super long arms, too, by the way, at 34 and 3-8s for being 6'4 foot 3. I thought Zach Pickens really helped himself. Very athletic, looked great.

The tape, you can find enough on tape to where you say, you know what? I had enough on tape to like him already, and after the combine, I'll like him more. So I think Zach Pickens may have shot. himself up into the second round he's for sure on day two but i think he may have gotten himself into the second round no no worse than the the early third and uh yeah it's it's a good name that's a good pull and he absolutely helped himself and he's somebody off the off the grid a little bit right now

that people need to be talking about along the interior watching him work out it was kind of like a reminder that oh yeah this is why this guy was a five star that's why this guy was you know everybody wanted him out of high school and uh you didn't always see see it during the games, but the talent is there. Lance, I want to get your opinion on Kalaja Kansi, who, you know, everyone's talking about the 40-year dash, the 10-yard split with him, you know, came in at 6-1, you know, it's great. He grew. People thought he'd be 6-foot or smaller. But 30 and 5'8s arms, that's the number that is kind of my takeaway with Collaja Kansy's Combine. That, that's tough. I mean, I still think Kansy's going to go

the first round because the tape is that good, the quickness, the play violence. But 30 and 5 eighths inch arms is really tough to overlook and play with when you're at a disadvantage against, it doesn't matter which blocker you're going up against. You're at an immediate length disadvantage, whoever you're facing. Yeah, so I had to go pull this up because I wanted to check. So Ed Oliver came in at 6-2. I think he may have been 6-1 and some change. Although I've stood next to him.

I don't know that I think he's 6-2, but I have to go see what the exact combine results were. 287 pounds, and he was 31-3-quarters arms. It may sound like a small thing to people, but that extra inch on the arms is a big deal to teams. The fact that in 31-3-quarter arms, Ed Oliver has short arms. However, it's longer than collagic can't see.

So if you, if you can't, care about 285 pounds, then you're really going to care about 30 and 5 eighths inch arms. The combination of the two. Let's add another person because this is the person who keeps getting brought up since they went to the same college. You go ahead. Aaron Donald, 6.1, 285 of the combine, 32 and 5 eighths inch arms. Yeah. I mean, the arm length is substantially different that Dane brought up and you brought up.

But I think what we have here is, so Aaron Donald, who was his dominant, as maybe any player I've ever seen as a senior ball. Aaron Donald, despite his size, ended up going, what, 12, I think, in the draft. Yep. And then because of his success, Ed Oliver, who was not as good as Aaron Donald, but had flashes,

Ed Oliver was drafted, I think it was ninth by the Buffalo Bills, because the Aaron Donald effect. Now, ironically, Ed Oliver hasn't been as productive in pro football. So now I think Colligia Canstey's hurt by that. I still think he's going into first. So does Dana because you'll find that in his mock draft. But I just think Collegiate Cancy, as long as you know who he is,

which is a devastating potential pass rusher and game record, if I'm a team, I say, look, we're going to have a big old boy playing first down. They're going to be, you know, eating up the blockers. And when we get teams in second nine or second eight, here comes Cancy. And we're bringing him on and he's going to shoot into gaps. and if you're going to run, he's going to bust up your run scheme. If you catch him perfectly, you're going to cave them out of the hole, and it's not going to be a problem for you.

And if you're passing, he is going to get by your guards and you're going to have some real problems in the pocket. He's a really, to your point, Andy, he is a really talented football player. Everybody, he's along the interior. Everybody knows he's the guy. They try to block him. They can't. He's still productive.

He still creates pressure. And I know he's going to take losses because of his size. but the wins he can generate with his quickness for a team like the Cincinnati Bengals, for example, or somebody who's looking for interior rush, he is going to be the guy that they really love. You just have to know that he may not be playing on a lot of first down. And the band has had Gino Atkins for a long time. Right, right. Well, and I had another powerhouse, yeah.

I had him going to the Lions at 18 overall in my mock draft. Who's the general manager of the Lions? Brad Holmes, who is really responsible for the Rams drafting Aaron Donald. Brad Holmes got up on the table and said, we need to draft this guy. So, you know, size be damned. Let's get a good player. Look at you and two and two together. I like that inside knowledge.

I didn't even know that. Yeah. And the Lions, they really want that interior disruption on the defensive line. You went, Aidan Hutchinson last year, you got the juice off the edge. Now, let's bring it on the interior. So I do like that fit in Detroit. Just for the record, my mock draft, I had Jalen Carter six to the Lions. So I ended up going Bijon.

I gave them Bijan because I already had a defensive tackle. So let's move out to the edge. Who really stood out? Lance, who stood out on the field for you? Well, Nolan Smith, I mean, so I'm not as high on Nolan Smith as some other people are. And I still have questions about if all of those athletic gifts translate into the rush. I think he's a really tough run defender. I still have, you know, I still question whether or not his best opportunity may be as a

stack linebacker who can, from time to time, you know, you can, you can flip between even front and odd front and really have him off the ball or on the line. He has that kind of power. He has that kind of speed. And he's smart enough to handle that too, to handle the varying roles. Absolutely smart enough to help himself. And I think another guy that helped himself. was DJ Johnson from Oregon. Now, DJ Johnson has some of the best power.

His bench press numbers are 38 on tape. He has 48 reps, basically. He's one of the most explosive, he has some of the most explosive heavy hands that you're going to find. He's 6'4, 260 pounds. They list him at Edge. I told his agent, I said, look, honestly, based on when you see the way he's built,

I feel like he could end up at 280. 29, 290 pounds. It can become a three technique like Henry Melton did when he went from being a defensive end to a defensive tackle. But when you see the way this guy moves and you see how strong he is, you see the flashes on tape. But I think you could really get a feel for, all right, this is kind of a diverse player when you saw him on the field because he is built like a much bigger,

thicker guy at 260 pounds. There's no question he can carry a lot more than 260, in my opinion. A guy that I really was impressed with was Yaya Diabi, the Louisville defensive line. And I, you know, I thought he had an okay week at the senior bowl. He didn't blow me away. You know, I remember watching Louisville tape and thinking like, okay, Yasser Abdullah is the guy that I really like in this front seven.

But then Diabi at the combine, man, for a guy that's 263 pounds to go and have, I think they hit the second best 10-yard split. among all the edge rushers at that size. So it wasn't far off from Nolan Smith, and he's also, you know, 25 pounds bigger than Nolan Smith is. So there's something there with Diabi. It's just you have to really, if you're looking for a developmental edge rusher in those mid-round,

Diabi has that explosion. He has an NFL body to work with. He's long. He's almost 34-inch arms. So he's a guy that I'd be really trying to target there in the middle rounds. Yeah, I love Diabi. I thought Diabi on tape was really a tough player. I think his combine was fantastic.

And a guy that I thought looked really good in drills, looked very fluid. It was Robert Beal Jr. Man, he was floating out there. He ran a 4-48. He was really smooth out in space, measured in it close to 644, 247. His arms are over 34.5 inches.

I thought the way Beal moved around the field kind of reminded you that this was, you got to remember now, this was a guy who was the leading sack man just two years ago for his team. So you have to keep an eye on Robert Beal as well. I think he's somebody who could be one of those middle to late middle round guys who teams bet on because of the trades. Well, and let's remember his team is Georgia. Yeah, yeah. Look who he's playing with. A lot of talent over there. And leading them in sacks. I do want to stay in the SEC, move back a level and go to linebacker because I thought Owen Papo's testing numbers were really interesting and it makes you wonder was he used properly at Auburn? Like that that you get a lot of questions like that

when you see a guy running a 439 at 225 pounds. I mean he was I don't think he's these I just don't think he sees it very well. Yeah. I knew he was a good athlete. This doesn't really change anything for me. I'll bump him a little bit because I think you know he's going to be a lot to be a special teams player. So I want to make sure I have the proper grade on them. But to me, all the testing in the world, he just doesn't see and diagnose the plays quickly. None of that's going to change with great testing. I just, you got to be able to see. He shouldn't play in the middle. To me, this is the other thing I wrote is he needs to be a will or you can let him run. Whatever you want to put him. But let him run and hit. Don't make him diagnosed and try to get the

fits perfect because that's not who he is. Yeah. Who's you guys? Who'd you guys like? in this group? Who did I like? I did like Abdullah, the Louisville linebacker. I thought he looked good. Who else? I've written down here.

I mean, Jack Campbell, Jack Campbell had a good workout. He did. Better than I thought when it shows on the tape. And I didn't love, I liked Jack Campbell. I didn't love him.

But, man, some of these numbers, the way he was moving out there, he looked really, really good. Yeah, I would agree with that. I'm trying to go through a list because I didn't think anyone, you know, I've been big on Deion Henley is already, he's already, I think Deion Henley look really good. That's the guy.

I mean, when I was watching him do it, the W drill, you watch his change the direction. He's so compact when he moves. He has such efficient movement. And he's not the biggest guy at 225 pounds, but I think team, I think fans would be horrified. if they knew how small linebackers get during the season. These guys lose weight and they get way lighter.

And they've taken to linebackers get way lighter during the year than you think. They've gotten so much smaller over the past 15 years anyway. I mean, it's funny because people think of Dante Hightower, who was already bigger, he was big for that era anyway. But that was like a Coke machine playing linebacker. The guys who play linebacker now would have been called safeties 15 years ago. Yeah, who, Lance, for you, who's the third linebacker in this, in this draft behind, Drew Sanders and Trenton Simpson?

Is it Campbell or is it, is it Henley? Let me check real quick. I got to see who I have and where I've got to make some, so it's Henley. It's Henley by, oh, I mean, it's Henley and Campbell right next to each other. Henley is maybe going to pass Trenton Simpson for me. I'll probably keep him below, but you have to remember this too, Dane. Trenton Simpson is carrying a 62 grade for me. He's somebody who has all the physical traits,

but I don't like the way he sees the football either. So me personally, I have a grade that would be more like a second third on him. So I'm not as high. Henley, I think I actually trust him as a linebacker a little bit more. So my grade for Campbell, Henley, and Simpson are going to be when I make the move-ups, they're going to be very, very, very similar. I do think it's not a great year for linebackers. I think, I think, 2-0-2-0-2-0.

I think I hope I'm pronouncing it, right? Hint or Toto. Yeah, I think he's fine. I think he's fine. I think he's solid, but this is not a great year for linebackers. If you need linebackers, it's kind of hard to find. How do you stack them? See, I have not, I'm kind of, I think we're the same on Jack Campbell.

I see the testing numbers, but I don't see him move with that swiftness and suddenness on tape. No, and he's not a bad athlete on tape by any means. He's just not the supremely gifted athlete we saw at the Combine. So, yeah, I mean, I like Jack Campbell. I think my initial grade was an early third, and then I bumped him up a little bit. And so he's one of those guys that I, you know, I think will probably be drafted maybe a little bit earlier. than I have him graded. But, I mean, he's, he put himself probably close to the top 50, top 60 conversation now with how we,

how we did at the combine. So it's a, he helped himself, no question. So let's move into the second level. And the safeties was, I, there's one guy in his testing numbers were, we're not all that impressive. But I love Jamie Robinson at Florida State. So Lance, I'm curious what you saw from him on the field. I thought he looked, I thought he looked good in the field.

And yeah, the testing numbers were a little bit disappointing to me, too, because I think he's a really good, I just think he's a really good football player. I think he's highly competitive with the nose for the football. And I thought he moved around the field pretty well. I think, unfortunately, he plays a position on the back end where they do pay very close attention. And look, his official numbers were 459, which is, you know, it's okay. Usually it'd be okay. that 4-6 mark is what they want you below.

But now that the combine turf is so much faster, I think that's going to be a concern for teams is if they make any adjustments, if they adjust them to a 463, a 462, and then you look at his arm length isn't even 30 inches, he's 5'10 at safety. He is really more of a nickel, I guess. You've got short arms.

You didn't run super fast. Your vertical jump was okay at 33 and a half. usually starters at that position are looking at more like a vertical of about 35. He's going to fall below the mark on some important testing numbers for teams. But when I watched him move, I thought he moved great. And I think he's a really competitive player who, to me, plays better than some of the testing might indicate. But this is one of those things. Once you start having a few exceptions, okay, he's below the standard for a vertical for a starter.

He's below the standard for 40-yard dash for a starter. He's below the size standard. He's below the arm length standard. You start, he's below the weight at 191. All right, well, now he's a nickel. Okay, well, we now we've got a 459 nickel. So we're going to have to play zone. Now of a sudden, you start really,

I'm just telling you how it's going to end up playing. We can talk about how much we like them all we want, Andy. What's going to happen is that funnel is going to get smaller and smaller for teams they're going to consider him. And that means he's probably going to drop in the draft a little bit. It's always tough when you, because you play the percentages. but you also trust the tape. And, you know, it's, some of these guys are hard conversations.

He's one of them. One of my favorite Nichols in this class, I thought had a great workout, Kwan Martin from Illinois. I mean, really, both those Illinois safeties look good with Sidney Brown. Throw Chase Brown in there, too. I thought all three of those guys looked really, really good,

really athletic. They moved really well. So it was, and the highest drafted Illinois player, Devin Witherspoon, didn't me get a chance to work. work out. So Illinois represented themselves pretty well. Yeah. Somebody, somebody said that Sydney Brown looked like a muscled up running back.

And it was like, yes, his twin brother is indeed a running back. Funny to say that. Yeah. Funny to say that because, yeah, I think Quaun Brown really helped himself. But I want to ask, I mean, we're focusing on guys who look good out there. Brandon Hill to me from speed. I know my issues with him are how he tackles. he takes bad angles to the football, tries to land knockout blows all the time. I think he needs to just calm down and play consistent football.

But Sidney Brown, along the draft process, has helped himself in my eyes. Oh, yeah. No doubt. I think Juan Martin has helped himself in my eyes. I think the guy that I have to go back and reassess now is going to be Jair Brown. And I'm not going to kill Jaya Brown because I think he's a really excellent football player. I think he runs well on tape. However, he ran a 4-6-5.

In his vertical jump, now, if he jumped 39, 38 inches, I could say, okay, he had a 32-5 vertical, which is low for a safety. He had a 9-11 broad jump, which was, you know, disappointing for a safety. He ran a 4-6-5, which is disappointing for a safety. And, I mean, this is a guy that I absolutely love. on tape, but these are, these are, there's concern because on tape, I feel like he's more explosive, but these numbers don't show any explosiveness at all. So I don't know what you're going to do with that day because I think he's a really good football player. Yeah, he is. But I can't just ignore

them. I just can't. No, you can't. Well, to be completely honest with you, I, I wrote down a four, six, five in my notes. I thought the long speed, that that's right around where he was. Now, I thought the explosion numbers, the jumps would be a little bit better than that. He was, I think, number 68 on my top 100. I had an early third round grade on him. And so I don't think I'm going to necessarily move him much at all. I mean, he's, it's just, you know, it's not a great safety group in the top, top 100 picks. You know, Brian Branch didn't have a great 40, but, you know, he's got a great tape.

You know, ideally you want better than a 4-5-8 at the nickel position than what he gave you. but you know, you're going to trust, you know, what Brian Branch and his strengths and his coverability and his intelligence. And I mean, I was told he just was outstanding in the interviews. So I don't think that's going to kill Brian Branch all that much. But it's just, it's just a rough group for safety's early. Let's go to corners because there is a little more, it feels like more meat on the bone with the corners. Who stood out to you guys? Well, I mean, right at the bat now, I have a first.

first round great on this guy. So DJ Turner, I'm sure he woke some people up with that speed, although he was expected to run fast and he ran. You called it. You called by preview. Oh, yeah, that's right. Yeah. DJ Turner had blazing, blazing speed. But I think it's for me, it's how he can mirror and match. Like, I feel like he mirroring matches like Tradavius White did coming out. I'll never forget watching Tradavius White and saying, why aren't more people talking about this guy? This guy has beautiful footwork. And I feel the same way about DJ Turner.

He has similar footwork. He plays like he's a bigger cornerback. I want to see him make a few more plays on the ball, obviously. But I think DJ Turner helped himself. And, you know, at the combine, and not only the combine, but I think the workouts, he was pretty good too. And we're trying to go off the beaten path. We know Christian Gonzalez did also.

but Terrell Smith, man, I liked his tape a lot. I'd heard about him at the East West. I didn't go to the East West. He ran a 4-4-1. He had a 1-50 10-yard split, which is a blazing 10-yard split for a guy, 204 pounds. He's got terrific size. And I just think he's got good footwork and coverability. I think Terrell Smith is a player all along this process has really helped himself out.

And I think this is a guy to watch for who really just cemented that, for me, at least, Dane, here at the combine from the cornerback from Minnesota. Yeah, there's some top 100 grades out there around the league. There's some love. And I thought, you know, you watch him on tape. I thought he did an admirable job against like Charlie Jones, Purdue. But there's a lot. He loves to make contact. He'll be called for holding.

I think his eye disciplines a little inconsistent. You want to see them better track the football, make plays. But when you're that size, you have that speed, you have that suddenness. Yeah, teams are going to take chances on you all day. The Maryland corners were outstanding. Maryland in general, I already talked about Jacob Copeland, and a lot of Maryland players tested really well. Lance, Andy, I want to get both of your guys' opinions on Emmanuel Forbes,

who I love the tape, love the ball production. 6-1, great. 32 and a quarter-inch arms, good enough. 435 and the 40. Yeah, 148 and a 10. Love it. 166 pounds.

What are we doing with that? Devante Smith is a person who exists. It's, it's, it's hard Devonthe Smith every game. Devonte Smith doesn't have to tackle. Emmanuel Forbes needs to tackle. Devonte Smith has to get tackled. Listen, I get it. He's small.

He's skinny, but sometimes dudes are skinny. Okay, hold on. We're going to put you to the test, ready? So we're in the draft room. Yep. And you're on the table for him. And here's, all right, well, who do you compare him to? Who do you think that's in the league right now?

There's nobody I can compare him to. But there really was anybody could compare Devante to. And I realize Devante Smith is a receiver, different position. But it's the same type of body. It's the same body type where you're like, this is a wiry person. But it seemed like he, you know, he didn't affect him in college. He played against top, top, top receivers. His calves look like Twizzlers staples.

Do you want to send you out to North Dakota? You want us to give you Duluth in North Dakota State? Yeah. And when he has three pick sixes as a rookie, you're going to be glad he's on our team, Lance. I love the ball production. What are we going to do with him as soon as he snaps his ankle? What are we going to do? He ain't going to snap his ankle.

He's already proven durability. It's durability. How long? He's 166. Show me. The next time we have a meeting, show me the guy, bring in your comps. I want to see three comps on him and why you think he'll be able to tackle. Sometimes you got to use your imagination, Lance.

That's exactly what a G. That's exactly what you want to hear. You have no argument. It goes like this, right? FCS, Texas high school football, high school football in general. Then you get Power 5 football. Then it goes group of five, then power five. And NFL's the last to be imaginative.

They don't like. Oh, I know. But the problem, the problem, and this is what you're pointing out with this exercise, you can't find a comparison. No. It's very difficult. Not 6-1. Not a guy.

That's why I keep going back. That's why I keep going back to Devante Smith because physically he's the only person similar that I can think of. Yeah, but you can't find a comp either to, like, there was none for Bryce Young and we were, you know. You also can't find guys who have many pick sixes for touchdowns. Like ultimately, I'm talking to an executive at one point during the combine, and I'm thinking he's going to kill, I think he's going to kill Forbes.

And he's like, no, Forbes will be fine. I said, yeah, but he was 166 pounds. Like, did you see his ball production? Now, I didn't think he moved great. I think he's a little bumpy. It's hard to be smooth when you're 6-1-166 and you have those long legs. But his ball production, like, it just comes down to, if you're going to make an exception for size, you better have something really strong.

you're going to make that exception for it. And he does. He does. He has ball production that is unlike anybody else. So to your point, Andy, you make exceptions if there's something exceptional that you can counterbalance. And he has that. It's the same thing with Cancy and his shorter arms.

Yeah, same thing with Bryce Young and his slight frame. I mean, this is just a draft that has a few of these outliers that are really, really intriguing. And some of them are going to wind up being great. And some executives are going to look like a genius. And some of them are going to bust. And they're going to be like, see, we told you. Told you. But that's just how it goes.

Gentlemen, it has been a pleasure. We shall reconvene. And we got a lot of chewing on these guys as pro-day season gets into the next few weeks. They start tomorrow. I mean, scouts are already on the road for pro days. It's crazy. Why waste time? Why waste time?

You had a good workout of the combine? Let's go. Knock it out. row day, then you can just chill. We're going to just chill for a while. We'll talk to you later. This was the Athletic Football Show.