The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Prospects to Pros: Hendon Hooker suffers torn ACL & top college players to watch during rivalry week

Episode Date: November 23, 2022

Andy Staples and Dane Brugler discuss Hendon Hooker’s ACL injury and how it impacts the QB class in 2023. Plus, rivalry week is here! They discuss all of the top prospects in Michigan-Ohio State, Ole Miss-Mississippi State, Florida-Florida State, USC-Notre Dame and more. They close out the show by talking about the TE class and their favorite Thanksgiving food. Follow Andy on Twitter: @Andy_StaplesFollow Dane on Twitter: @dpbruglerSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTube0:54 Hendon Hooker ACL injury & how it impacts the QB class11:12 What NFL teams will be in the market for a QB in the 2023 draft?18:10 Michigan-Ohio State27:09 Ole Miss- Mississippi State 31:06 Florida-Florida State 36:29 USC-Notre Dame39:03 TE Class45:18 Thanksgiving food Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Football Show. Welcome to Prospects to Pros, where we talk about the guys who are still in college, but they're headed to the draft, the guys who just got drafted. And everything in between, I'm Andy Staples. I'm here with the athletics draft guru, Dane Bruegler. And we have a lot to get into, Dane, because we got rivalry week coming, we got Thanksgiving. We have food takes. We got to get off. But more importantly, we got to talk about a game that probably, a few.

the quarterback draft in 23, maybe not in the way that everybody thinks. There's an obvious piece of it, but there's a less obvious piece of it too. And I talk about, of course, the Tennessee South Carolina game, which was the shocker of the weekend. South Carolina clobbers Tennessee.

Nobody saw it coming. The saddest part of that game is Hendon Hooker, the Tennessee quarterback tearing his ACL. He's done for the season. Magical run for him after transferring from Virginia Tech where he really, helped turn around Tennessee's program and put them in a really great place going forward. But he's done in college football.

The next time we see him will be in the NFL. What do we think happens with that day? And obviously, ACL injuries are not what they used to be. You know, 30 years ago, they were a career ender. But how does that affect Henn and Hooker in terms of the draft, what he can do before the draft, what he can show teams? Where is he going to be at these next few months? As long as the surgery and the rehab go well, you know, stays on schedule,

I think that the injury itself is not going to necessarily hurt hooker, hurt his grade, his draft grade. But, you know, it is a missed opportunity for him. When you think about the draft process and him unable to go to the senior bowlers, the shrine game and showcase his skills as a passer, because that's the biggest thing, I think, for the next step that teams want to see, is Hennon Hooker outside of that Tennessee offense, when he's asked to maybe do some different things, throw some different routes.

You'd be able to see that during senior ball practices, but now that's just not an option for him. So I think it's a missed opportunity, and that's unfortunate. You know, we looked to past years with quarterbacks, you know, to Otago, Aloha, when, you know, it was about this time, what, three years ago, that he had that separated hip.

and you know that that was a college career ender for him. It's a catastrophic injury. That one was worse than Hooker one for sure. And it's kept him from participating at the combine. That was the year COVID hit, so we didn't have pro days. But he wasn't able to work out before the draft anyways for teams like that. So, you know, and he still went five overall. Now, obviously there's, we're talking about two different.

levels of prospects, you know, Tua was expected to go that high, where with Hennon Hooker, he's more of a day two pick. So, you know, but I think that, you know, with, look just to last draft, Jameson Williams, which, you know, an ACL injury matters a lot more for a speedy wide receiver like Jameson Williams. He had an ACL injury in January, and he still went number 12 overall. So with Hennon Hooker, as long as the surgery goes right, the rehab goes right, he's going to wow during the interview process throughout the draft, the combine and the team meetings and things like that. I still think he's going to go on day two. But like I said, I do think it's a missed opportunity for him to potentially move up and

help himself, you know, missing out on some of these events. Where do you think he falls in this quarterback class? Where would you slot him in? Okay, well, let's, I think the first three quarterbacks drafted are going to be Bryce Young, C.J. Shroud, and Will Levis in whatever. order it ends up being not confident that's the order some teams are going to be all in on Bryce young some teams the size is a non-starter for them uh will levice is obviously a very volatile uh player because it's it's a projection is a big part of that um after those three

we have to see which underclassmen come out uh Anthony Richardson for as much as we have said you know 2024 class and uh if he comes out which is it's possible uh you know he might believe that he's done all he can do in Gainesville. If he decides to come out, he's still going to go top 50, top 60 somewhere. This is such an interesting conversation because I get asked this question pretty much every day in Gainesville. And what I keep telling people is there's another facet to that question, and that is, is Florida sure they want him to be their starter next year?

Honestly, I'm not familiar with their depth chart. I mean, do they have someone that, you know, Well, no, there's the transfer portal. Now, they have a freshman coming in a game of Rashada, but I'm not projecting the freshman starting. I'm saying, do they go into the portal and get somebody else? Well, they've got that Ohio State transfer too, right? Yeah, they have Jack Miller.

Yeah, they have Jack Miller, and then, you know, they have Jalen Kittner, who's been the backup this year. Miller probably would have the backup, but he got hurt in camp and missed a lot of pretty important time. So Richardson, like, if you look at his stat line from the Vandy game, threw for 400 yards and it's a decent completion percentage. He played very poorly in that game though. See, I mean, honestly, watching the Vanderbilt, watching that tape, he made some

throws that made me go, okay, you know what, this guy, he, he, I can see why teams are really infatuated with what he could be because he's making some throws that are just outstanding. So overall, maybe it was the best physical tools of anybody. Yeah. And you know, you look at the Utah game. You look at, you know, for parts of that bandy game. I mean, I see it. I get why teams are going to be really interested. And I'm actually, I've got my first mock draft of the year coming out next week. So we know what we'll be talking about next week on the

pod. Yeah. But and I'm, you know, I'm looking at Anthony Richardson and saying, hey, could a team realistically, you know, bite on that talent late in the first if he comes out? It's something that is not crazy. So, I mean, back to the original, you know, question and topic. You know, what does Anthony Richardson do? What's Tanner McKee do from Stanford, who has not had a great year, but the situation around him makes it really tough to evaluate him? And then you've got, you know, a guy like Boe Nix from Oregon, who has been a revolution this year and keeps going up and up and up. Very easily can see him

drafted ahead of Henan Hooker. So that's seven quarterbacks right there that we could be talking about as top 75, top 80 picks. So it's a really interesting mix of quarterbacks where last year we had one quarterback in the first 73 picks. This year, we've got plenty of question marks about these guys.

But you could certainly understand why a team would, look at one of these and say, hey, yeah, let's let's take, just roll the dice. But, you know, and again, we mentioned this before, one of the reasons teams did not take Malik Willis earlier or Desmond Ritter or the guys that were drafted in a third round last year, they were looking towards this class and saying, hey, you know, our advanced scouting tells us next year's quarterback class is going to be better. Could that happen again when you look at next year and what Caleb Williams is doing at USC, what Drake May is doing at North Carolina?

There's some other really talented quarterbacks. Could advance scouting tell some of these teams, hey, let's maybe not go all in on one of these quarterbacks. Maybe we wait. So there's still a lot of moving parts with this quarterback conversation that it makes it really interesting. I want to ask you about another potential moving part because it's not something that we were even thinking about until Saturday night. Spencer Rattler is a third year quarterback. He has draft eligible.

He's the guy that we assumed was going to start for Lincoln Riley at Oklahoma, that he was going to be kind of the heir apparent and the next great Lincoln Riley quarterback at Oklahoma. And then he winds up getting beat out by Caleb Williams. He gets pulled in the Texas game. Caleb Williams takes over, doesn't give it back up. Spencer Rattler then becomes the starter at South Carolina, had a pretty pedestrian season up until Saturday night when he looked like everything we ever thought he would be when

he was a five-star recruit. Let's just a stat line. This is bananas. 30 of 37 for 438 yards and six touchdowns. That's an 11.8 yards per attempt average, 81.1% completion percentage. I mean, and watching the game, it felt like that. Like, as crazy as those numbers are, they're not too surprising when you watch that game and see him how productive he was, using.

using every part of the field. I mean, yeah, watching that game, you understand, okay, this is why he was a top five pick and mock drafts a year ago. You know, this is why, you know, we were maybe putting a cart before the horse with Spencer Rattler because the talent is there. He's a fourth year player, by the way. I'm sorry, he redshirted to Oklahoma the first year. So he's fourth three player this year. Right. And you see the arm talent, I mean, the guy, he has mobility. He can, you know, positive yards is there, he'll take it, he can buy extra time, quick delivery, the ball is up and gone with the zip. So, and some of those deep balls, perfect accuracy. I mean, you're seeing him push the ball. But you know what, there's some of the character stuff is an issue.

You know, he just, he rubs people the wrong way. That's something that could potentially hurt him through the process. But then just the, like, what do you do with a guy that, you know, You watch earlier this year against Georgia or watch earlier this year against Kentucky Where it's a week before against South Carolina when he couldn't do anything Florida right? I mean it's Florida and it gets Florida. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. What do you? Crazy. What do you do with a guy like, I mean, what's the, what is the draft grade for a guy like that? Like, yeah, I'd love to, you know, bring him on my team. Let's see if we can develop him. But, oh, I have to draft him in a third round. Oh, yeah, no thanks.

Never mind. So like, what's he asking for us? Will Levis got shut down by the same defense. That's just mind-blowing to me. Three weeks earlier, Will Levis got shut down by that same defense. And then Spencer Rattler just goes crazy on it. And I have no idea what that all means, but it is fascinating to me. You talk about the moving parts, and I was thinking about this before we started the show.

And you tweeted out earlier on Tuesday, the draft order if the season ended today. one pick that I find very interesting is the one the lions got or one of the ones the lions got in the Matthew Stafford trade from the Rams. Right now that's number six. The Lions are clearly a team on the upswing. They've got Jared Goff. He's playing well. Do you use this pick? Because remember, they got the 2022 and 2023 first rounders from the Rams.

So they don't have another Rams pick in case the Rams stink next year. the lions don't look like they're going to stank next year. Do you use that pick on a quarterback now? That's, I mean, I think that's the idea, right? Is either that or you use one of these picks to trade back and try to get a first rounder next year where, you know, you need to put yourself in position to go get a quarterback. I don't think that the lions are,

I don't think they have the belief that Jared Goff can lead them to a Super Bowl. I just don't think that they believe. leave that. And so, you know, he's, he's been good right now. And I think he's helping them win football games and that's great. But you have to think about the future and, you know, what, what is that going to look like at the quarterback position? So is there a quarterback this year that they love, that they feel like we can't pass on this guy. Let's bring him into our program. And, you know, let's, if there is that guy, they have to draft them. And, you know, to your point, picking sixth. And then also right now they have the 13th pick. Right. If they,

wanted to package those picks to go get the guy they want, they could do that. If Bryce Young is, hey, that's our guy. We're worried about what some of these other teams might do. But, you know, look at Houston. They have the first pick and the seventh pick right now. And we know they need a quarterback. So, you know, what happens there? Carolina has the number two pick right now.

They might not be interested in trading back because they want a quarterback. Or, you know, maybe they want one of these, you know, Will Anderson, Jalen Carter, one of these impact defense. lineman. So it's a fascinating, you know, a group of teams here in the early part of the draft because multiple teams have multiple first-round picks, top 15 picks, and they need a quarterback. So it really shakes things up and it's going to make it, and especially because this quarterback class, it's not like two years ago where Trevor Lawrence was the easy number one pick, and then we knew quarterbacks were just going to fly off the board, whether it's Trey Lance or Zach Wilson,

Justin Fields, Mac Jones, you know, five going the top 15. This year, Bryce Young, C.J. Stroud will love us. I understand why each is laked as a prospect throughout the league, but they're not universally loved. And so what is that going to, how is that going to play out? You know, it's not going to be where we see quarterbacks for one, two, three. I'll bet that. Quarterbacks will not go one, two, three.

It's going to be more spread out. And even the ones who are university. love don't always work. I mean, Zach Wilson may be getting benched in favor of Joe Flacco or Mike White. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's a role. It's a huge roll of the dice no matter what, but you still have to do it because it's the most important position. And if you get that guy, if you get your Patrick Mahomes or your Josh Allen, then you're set for 15 years. And it's a shame because you look at the Jets and I mean, the run game has had their issues. You know, the wide receivers are a little up and down, but, you know, the defense is championship ready, you know,

the way that they're playing. That roster is good. And the injuries they've had, when those guys, like, next year, offensively, the roster's good outside of the quarterback. Good enough to win a division and make some noise in the playoffs. There's no doubt. But the most important position, you have to hit on that. And so for some of these teams, it's going to be.

be interesting if they love one of these quarterbacks. I don't think the Jets just said, well, we need a quarterback, so let's see if Zach Wilson works out. I think they genuinely loved him as a player. This isn't a Jets problem. Zach Wilson was loved as a prospect by multiple, multiple teams.

This wasn't like a Mitch Trubisky situation where there was a split vote. Like everybody liked Zach Wilson. Yeah, great example. I mean, this was, Zach Wilson was going to go number two. If a lot teams were picking at number two. And so, yeah, it really, it makes it interesting this year because, again, I don't think

it's quarterbacks one, two, three. I think it would be a little more spread out. And are teams going to be willing to be patient like they were last year? Or do they feel a little bit of, you know, the pressure that, hey, you know what? I'm not promised next year. Let's get our quarterback now and see what happens. Yeah, it is going to be a fascinating set of circumstances because, like you said, because there's so many teams with a couple of picks there,

like we know the Texans are going to take a quarterback. It'd be crazy not to. But they also could take an impact defensive lineman probably or a corner or, you know, they can fill another need. But the lions where they're at may have to package that to get the quarterback they want if they want to do it now. And again, they're in a weird situation where things are going well.

They can't stink next year or they don't want to. stink next year. So you're not really going to be in that class unless you get somebody to give you a pick for next year. And you got to hope that team stinks. Yeah, there's a lot of moving parts there. It makes it interesting. And look, and Houston at number one, they have the clear advantage right now. They've basically a two-game lead for that number one overall pick. So I'm sure their fans don't like to hear that. I know. Well, hey, I mean, I don't think they had any, you know, illusions of grandeur. Illusions. Yeah. Yeah.

But so this was, I mean, I think they're in a position now where they're the clear, overwhelming favorite to end up with that number one overall pick. And then it just comes down to, yeah, I mean, it's, you know, Nick Casario, you know, coming over from the Patriots, we knew Bill Belichick ran things when he was in New England. This is his chance to, you know, put a stamp on things. You know, his first two drafts have been a little, a little up and down.

You know, some questionable picks. some, I think he's also hit on some. But, you know, what is, is this his chance to go get the quarterback? And, you know, I'm fascinated to find that out. Yeah, I can't wait. Now, speaking of the Lions, Aiden Hutchinson has been everything they wanted him to be this year. Interesting point about a game in college football that is very exciting because of the stakes of the game. The Big Ten East title is on the line.

essentially the Big Ten titles on the line. A playoff berth could be on the line. Ohio State, Michigan. It's everything we want. Huge stakes. The weather could be an issue. It's exactly what you're hoping for at noon, Eastern time on the Saturday after Thanksgiving.

But Aidan Hutchinson was in the unique position for the last, I'd say, 15 years of this rivalry, where he was a Michigan player, who was the best player on the field in this. game that has not happened very often. And I think it had a lot to do with what happened last year, where Michigan won in dominant fashion. Hutchinson and David Ajabo just destroyed C.J. Stroud in that game.

Now, Michigan's offensive line also mashed Ohio State's defensive front pretty well. But now you go into a game where, if we're talking about who are the best players on the field, Marvin Harrison Jr. for Ohio State, the receiver, probably the best receiver in the country. They've got a couple of young guys on their defense that might fit this bill. C.J. Stroud is their quarterback. Who from Michigan do you think can make a big difference in this game? I mean, besides the obvious, you know, Blake Corum, because I think that's, if Ohio

State can, and we know the Ohio State defense is a lot better, right? I mean, compared to last year, it's night and day better. Better than they were, yes. So, you know, if they can limit Blake Corum, you know, we don't know how serious that knee injury is. You know, he came back in that game against Illinois last week, so it could have been that serious. But now, you know, after a week. We only carried one time. Right, right, which is kind of weird.

I mean, I don't. But, you know, after a week, is it more sore maybe? I mean, who knows? Well, that's an unknown variable at this point. But, I mean, they still have a pretty good running back back field. that offense is made to run the football. And our buddy Bruce Feldman had an article that came out today on The Athletic about the Ohio State Michigan rivalry and some interesting insight from coaches talking about both teams.

And, you know, there was a part in there talking about how Michigan, knowing they couldn't out personnel or out talent Ohio State, they have to be. Out culture and out physical. Exactly. So basically, I'll tough them. You know, be the tougher team and it starts in the trenches. And that's what we saw last year, to your point. So can Ohio State answer the bell this year in the trenches?

The defensive line is better this year for Ohio State. We saw that, you know, last week against Maryland, when Ohio State needed a play late in the game, Zach Harrison showed up with back-to-back sacks to basically end that game, close out that game. And that's what you're looking for. A pass-risher, you want closers. And that's what Zach Harrison was. Can they do that in this game?

You know, they have to be able to stop the run first and foremost. And then you have to force J.G. McCarthy to drop back and try to beat the Ohio State defense with his arm, which against Illinois, he missed some wide open targets. He's a guy that has a little more juice in his arm. And so he will overshoot his targets at times. Can they put enough pressure on him that really gets him off his game? and so I'm looking at JTT up front. I'm looking at Zach Harrison. Can they get that pass rush that Ohio State desperately needs?

Michigan's got one of the best offensive lines in college football. You know, I'm a big fan of Ryan Hayes at left tackle. You know, what can he do against Harrison? And then, but again, I think it comes down to Kinestock-Blakoram. Lanham Ransom, Ohio State's safety has been awesome down the stretch. Yeah, he was all over the field against Maryland, yeah. Special teams, defense. I mean, the speed is.

the difference with him. Once he sees it and goes, I mean, it's a lot of fun to watch. Tommy Eichenberg is going to be a big part of this game shutting down, attempting to shut down Blake Corum. So, you know, this is the type of game. And look, I'm biased. I grew up in Northeast Ohio. So, you know, I've got buddies who are Ohio State fans.

I've got buddies who are Michigan fans. And so I grew up in this rivalry. That's why I think it's the best in sports. but you know it's it never it never disappoints you know even when it seems like one team is clearly the favorite it still turns out to be a good game and i have i'm sure this one will be exactly the same way so um i think honestly the key to this game might come down to cj strout and i'm glad you went there that's where i was going next yeah can't the biggest and the biggest my biggest issue with C.J. Strau that talked about a ton

is can he be creative enough? And when he's forced to move his feet, can he be creative enough to move the football, move the chains? And, you know, because we know that Michigan defensive line, as good as Ohio State's tackles are, they're going to be able to get a little bit of pressure. And they have, I like DJ Turner at corner, him going up against Marvin Harrison would be a lot of fun to watch from an evaluation standpoint. But,

Can C.J. Stroud make enough plays when he's forced to move his feet from a scouting perspective, that's what I'm focused on and just trying to figure out who's going to win this game. I think that's going to be a big, big part of it's going to ultimately determine the scoreboard and the outcome. I go back to the Penn State game, which is probably the best past Rush Ohio State has faced so far this season. And I got very worried about C.J. Stroud because it didn't seem he sensed pressure very well. There were several plays where somebody was coming off the edge and he didn't even notice them. And it was interesting to contrast because if you watched when Penn State got the ball, like JT. Tuey, JT. Tuoie Malau, who is a guy who's not draft eligible this year, but we will be talking about him a ton next year, was just terrorizing Penn State.

And so what Penn State decided to do was slide their protection away from him so that everybody else is going to get blocked. And they told Sean Clifford, just deal with him. and Sean Clifford, who is not a prospect that we are talking about on this podcast, most plays are like, okay, I can duck under him, I can move my feet, get away, and get this pass out. I don't see C.J. Straub being able to do that. Yeah. And that's why I have not been head over heels on Stroud as a prospect, because that's something that is, maybe not essential, but pretty important to being a production. of quarterback in today's NFL.

It's something that you want that mobility. Those second chance plays are so big. And he's done it a few times this year. I will give him credit. You know, the Iowa game, you know, there were a few games where he has done it, but not consistently. And so can he be consistent here when, you know, Mike Morris, who missed the Illinois game, it might have been just like, hey, let's just, you know, rest of week.

They warmed him up and then they decided now today. So, yeah. We don't, you know, is he 80% closer to 100%? Who knows? We'll find out. But I think Mike Morris, who has, you know, you're not going to replace Aiden Hutchinson and David Ajop, which is not going to happen. But Mike Morris has done a really nice job stepping in in that role.

I still believe he leads the team in tackles for loss and sacks. He does. And in the process, he's helped himself. I think he's put himself in that top 100 conversation. But, you know, can he put enough pressure on Stroud? that offense. You know, it's, when everything's in rhythm, that Ohio State offense is just, it's humming. And I, but it seems like every game, there has been something that has maybe slowed them down

a little bit, you know, whether it's, you know, against Iowa, he took that sack that ended up being a scoop and score for the hot guys, you know, against Penn State. They dug themselves into a hole early and some of the issues that you mentioned last week against Maryland. They struggle to stop Maryland. And it just, we're, keep waiting for Ohio State to play a complete game. And I, you know, is this the week they could do it? I mean, we know that even though they're preparing for the next week's opponent each week,

they're always having their eye on Michigan and introducing different things. And so I'm really eager to see how that, how that plays out. It's going to be, it's going to be a lot of fun noon on Saturday. It's from a fan perspective, from an evaluation perspective, there's going to be a lot to learn, a lot to take away from this game. Now, you got a packed weekend, though, for you. You got the Egg Bowl Thursday night. You got Ole Miss of Mississippi State.

That's going to be a fun one. I imagine Zach Evans is a guy you want to see for Old Miss. How about Old Miss, a pair of 200-yard rushers last weekend, is Arkansas, and they scored 27 points. How's that possible? Well, I mean, if Arkansas hadn't taken its foot off the gas, they never would have gotten close to 27. Arkansas is destroying them.

And a lot of that is, that Ole Miss defense is designed to get annihilated by a team like Arkansas. Like with KJ Jefferson and Rocket Sanders, that is not what you, because like go back to the Auburn game for Ole Miss. Robbie Ashford, Tank Bigsby is a very talented back,

but Robbie Ashford is not KJ. Jefferson. And you saw them run all over Ole Miss. So you knew that these guys would be able to, and they just controlled everything. And so that was the biggest problem, I think. But now you've got the Mississippi State defense. You've got Emmanuel Forbes, who probably the best corner in this game. We get to see some Will Rogers. You know, I don't, we, air raid quarterback. But, but hey, there's an Air aide quarterback who might be the best quarterback in the game right now in Patrick Mahomes. So you never know. Well, anytime we get to see Jonathan Mingo, the old misreceiver, go up against Emmanuel Forbes,

that's going to be a lot of fun. I mean, Forbes set the college football record last week with his sixth career pick six, which is awesome. He's got four. He's a third year junior and he's got 14 interceptions. So, like, he's a guy that he had a pick six in his first career game. He set the tone immediately. He's a guy that he's not afraid to freelance.

You know, it's a double-edged sword type of thing with him. And so he will have some rough points, but he gets his hands on the football. And obviously, that does not go unnoticed by NFL teams. But how does he do against Jonathan Mingo? Jonathan Mingo is a really interesting player. He's a good-sized receiver, 220 pounds, strong hands. I was watching the Arkansas old mistate from Saturday. to really to focus on Zach Evans,

first play of the game, Mingo's running, I think it was a dig, and just a simple one-handed grab, just put his hand out, ball stuck to it, brought it in. So Mingo, I could surprise people how much earlier he goes in the draft because it feels like the talent's there

and it's just, he hasn't been in an offense that has really been able to allow him to flourish. And so Mingo versus Forbes should be a lot of fun. And then, yeah, like you mentioned, Will Rogers, he's over two. in the Egg Bowl. And so is Mike Leach, by the way. What can they do in this one to kind of change the outcome?

Will Rogers will have an NFL decision to make after this year? I think he's in that Bailey-zappy type of mold in terms of, you know, strengths, weaknesses, and also draft projection where he could be drafted. So, you know, this is something that you know that they want to come out with a victory, both the head coach and the quarterback. So Friday, you got a few games. You can watch Drake May, who if you're thinking you want your team to tank for Drake next year, you can watch Drake May play against NC State.

He had a not great game against Georgia Tech where they got out to a 17-0-0 lead, and then Georgia Tech shut them down to the rest of the way. Now, UNC should have won that game because Drake May put the ball right on Josh Downs in the end zone. And Josh Downs has made a lot of really good catches. So I'm not going to kill him for dropping one. But they would have won that game if he'd caught it. But you're going to get to see Drake May against a physically talented defense. NC State has not been what they were supposed to be this year.

But you're going to get to see some numbers there. Florida and Florida State, you get to watch Anthony Richardson, who I think is just a – we talked about him earlier, but it's a mystery because physically in terms of quarterback tools, there's no one better in this draft and there's no one better in next year's draft. And now Caleb Williams and Drake May are better quarterbacks. Bryce Young is a better quarterback. C.J. Stroud is a better quarterback.

But if you take the individual parts of Anthony Richardson, it could all be put together into an incredible quarterback. It's just the question is, will that ever be put together? Yeah. And, you know, we talked about them earlier. So we won't, you know, belabor the point. But it's just, I came away more optimistic with Anthony Richardson after watching Vanderbilt than you did. But, I mean, it's still, you know, it's still Vanderbilt.

I mean, one of the worst defenses in the country. And they lost. Exactly. Exactly. It's a tough conversation with Anthony Richardson. I, you know, there's a part of me that hopes he just goes back so he can get better. And it's not something we even worry about this year. But, you know, it's who knows. knows what the motivating factors are for these these juniors it's not just money it's not just

grades it's not just having you go to school sometimes it's uh you know maybe anthie richerson's just not jelling with the new coaching staff maybe he feels like you know what they've done all like they've taken me as far as i can go i need to go to that next level and he's take that next step he's an interesting case too because in the nil era he's doing very well on that front yeah so right from a financial standpoint he's much more comfortable than players would have been in the past having to make this decision. So does it affect, we don't know if it will affect people's decisions. We've not seen it because it's so new.

So I'll be curious to see if that impacts the decision because he could come back to Florida and be a seven-figure earner, you know, not what he would make in the NFL, but also nothing to sneeze at. And potentially, you know, because that's, I would imagine if Florida's coaching staff feels like there's more that, you know, more that they can get to in terms of his ceiling, that's what they're going to sell him on. They're going to sell him on. You're going to make plenty of money at Florida next year.

But also you could make considerably more money as a draft prospect between, you know, you could be like the 30, you know, and obviously like the 31st pick and the 33rd pick are two very different things. Sure. In terms of contract length and everything else. but the 31st pick and the first pick are also very different things or the second pick or the fifth pick. That's a lot of money that you could make. So it'll be a really interesting conversation that gets had here in the next few weeks. Now, anybody from Florida State that you want to see?

I definitely want to see Jared Verse. You know, they took a transfer pass rusher last year who ended up turning into a first trump pick, Jermaine Johnson. there's a good chance they do it again with verse. I mean, the way he's been playing, he was hurt a little bit, but watch him against Matthew Bergeron from Syracuse, who a lot of people like. I mean, he destroyed Bergeron.

He's a guy that very easily could go in the first round this year. Fabian Lovett, the defensive tackle, anytime we get to see him versus Osiris Torrance, that'll be a lot of fun. And then I want to give a shout out to Trey Benson, the running back. I mean, he's a guy that Oregon transfer, the last month of the season, he has really showed up.

I mean, he's averaging like over 120 yards rushing per game the last month. And he actually leads the country in terms of yards after contact this year. So just a big guy who could break tackles. Trey Benson is a redshirt sophomore. So could be a sneaky prospect that, you know, if he were to declare, a guy will be talking more and more about. Yeah, and the Jared Burs thing is so interesting. He was at Albany, his first two.

years and how that I think we've told the origin story there but basically everybody who played Syracuse last year watched the Syracuse Albany tape. Yep. And Jared Verst popped off the screen and all of those schools were calling about Jared Verse and Florida State ended up getting him. But it is that again, not the same thing. Jermaine Johnson was a role player at Georgia and had a big role in what turned out to be one of the best defenses in the history of college football, but wanted to show he was a three-down player,

very clearly showed that at Florida State, and it paid off in the draft. Yep, exactly. And he wanted to be the man, and he bet on himself. And you love that when guys bet on themselves. And with verse, yeah, it was interesting, you know, the Syracuse game, that kind of really helped put him on the map. And then coming to Florida State, playing at Syracuse, again, I mean, he just, he terrorized the backfield for Syracuse. Q. So he's a guy that has first round talent and speed, the power, he really has it all.

He, I think he leads the ACC right now and tackles for loss with 14, and that's including missing some time because he's been hurt. So this is a guy that lives in the backfield. Let's talk about Notre Dame USC. This is another game from a stake standpoint is huge, because if USC wins this game, then they will go to the Pac-12 championship game, probably with a chance to clinch of a playoffer. I'm convinced that if USC wins the next two, that Caleb Williams will win the Heisman trophy because he's basically carrying that team. And for them to win these next two games, he will have to be amazing. And he was amazing against UCLA. But who in this game do you really want to watch from a, from a scouting standpoint? Well, it's good to see Jordan Addison back to

his old self against UCLA. He missed, he got hurt at the end of that Utah game and basically missed the next three games. So he had like 11 catches, 178 yards against UCLA. So it's good to see him back and healthy. On defense for USC, Tully to Tui Poloto has been a really fun pass rusher for them. And then Colorado transfer, Mackay Blackman had a pick against DTR last week. He's been their best player in the secondary. And I think he's going to be drafted at corner.

for Notre Dame, I mean, I remember what with Dalton Kincaid did against that USC defense? Yeah. Yeah, the game of every tight end's life. Yeah, okay, so Michael Mayer's got to be sitting there licking his chop saying, okay, what can I do? Now, you know, we'll see if, I don't know if he's going to put up that type of production, but it'll still be good to see Seamire face that defense, see if he can post some big numbers.

Then we got to give a shout out to Isaiah Faw. who passed Justin Tuck as the all-time sack leader for the Irish. You know, it's something that obviously matters. You know, it's the scouting motto is traits over production. But, yeah, still, when you're getting sacks, that's, that usually lines up that you're doing something right. And so, Foski's a little bit of a, opinions are a little over the place on him. Yeah. You know, I've heard everywhere from second to fourth round on Foski, but he's a guy that puts pressure

on the backfield. And so, you know, he's got a chance to, you know, make some noise in this one against a really good quarterback. And he shows up in big games. Like, I just think there's, there's a place for somebody like that. Maybe you don't draft him super high, but you get him in your locker room, get him on your team. He's going to make your team. He's going to be on your team for a while. The Michael Mayer thing's interesting to me. We haven't talked much about tight ends this year. where does he is he your your clear number one tight end uh probably uh but i will say that like michael mayor as good as he is because he's just a damn good football player like he's not gonna run a blazing 40 you know it's not gonna and so that's something that could that's why i wouldn't say

michael mayer is a lock top 20 top 25 pick because he's not that's why i'm curious because like darnell washington from georgia is going to wow people in testing. But even Washington is, you know, he's still a work in progress as a receiver. You know, he's still, I mean, he's a freak, but, you know, he's not an easy projection because he's such a unicorn. You know, there's just, you don't see Darnell Washington's walking down the street. He's, he's very, very unique.

And so that's, that's, that's an interesting one. And my guy Tucker Kraft from South Dakota State who did this week officially declare, South Dakota State still playing. They're still in the FCS playoffs. but he did officially declare and say that he's headed the NFL after the season. And look, when Dallas Goddard was drafted top 50, you thought, oh, wow, South Dakota State, you know, it'll be a while before they have another tight end drafted top 50. Tucker Kraft could go first round.

He's that good. Tucker Kraft is one of the best offensive players in this draft. A lot of people don't talk about it because they don't watch a lot of FCS football. But Kraft is the real deal. So I think you start with those three. And I tell you what, I really like this tight end class. You know, if those three guys that we, you know, Mayor, Darnow Washington, Tucker Kraft, are all top 50 guys.

Soon after that, I love Luke Musgrave at Oregon State. If not for his knee injury, we'd be talking a lot more about him. Dalton Kincaid from Utah, who we mentioned. Cade Stover from Ohio State, I think is it a day two discussion. And then we didn't mention him when we talked about South Carolina, but Jeheme Bell, you know, playing a little H-Bashab. you know, running back. He's a really...

I mean, they made him a pure tailback the last three weeks just to force feet in the ball, essentially. They felt like he wasn't getting enough touches. Their two best backs were hurt, and they're like, here's the solution. And he's, he's a hybrid, you know, so he's unique. He's probably six, two and a half, 235 pounds. So, you know, what exactly is his role?

But if he declares, he'll be another guy we're talking about. That doesn't include, you know, five, six, seven more seniors that we could talk about as being top four round, top five round players, this tight end class, assuming all these underclassmen come out, it's going to be a sneaky good class with several players worthy of first round consideration. And I like those hybrid guys that you're talking about, the ones who aren't, you know, the ones who are like six, five and above, obviously you know what you're doing with them. But the ones who are a little bit more tweeners, there's a use for them, especially if they're

very athletically gifted, because you can, you can, you can, move them around, you can essentially play them as fullbacks, which allows you to change personnel packages without substituting. So you can confuse the defense that way. And I think that you give them one picture, motion, and it's a very different picture all of a sudden if you've got a fullback now. So that's something I think people should consider. Right. Well, and just with the tight end subject, I'm glad you brought this up because it's someone asked me this the other day and it really made me think. Who is the last first round tight end to live up to where they were drafted?

So let's, I mean, we didn't have a first round tight end last year. The year before we had Kyle Pitts, who, if we had a redraft, Kyle Pitts is still going top 10, okay? But, you know, it's still early. He's now has the injury. He's got an MCL injury. So, but up to this point, he has not lived up to being the fourth overall pick. after you know t j hawkinson was just traded for the equivalent of basically a late second round

pick so you know as a top 10 guy he hasn't necessarily lived up to it no a fan got traded yeah hayden hurst uh he uh you know did not last very long with the ravens yeah yeah the the trivia question who i mean was the raven's first round pick before they drafted lamar jackson hayden hurst uh which is just kind of crazy has been um now mark a mark a major is a great player at Oklahoma. Yeah, but he was a third round pick. Exactly. And Isaiah likely was a lower round pick who, if you watched Coastal Carolina last year, you're like, this guy's going to be awesome. Right. But I mean, just talking about those first round guys, there have not, it's hard. I mean, go back to, I mean, David Ojoku has been a good player. He's got the contract. I think he's,

he's playing his best football now. But, you know, that's still a questionable one, whether or not he's loved up to it. I mean, Eric Ebron, though. Tyler Eifert, maybe, but he was hurt so much. I mean, it's, bottom line, it's tight end is a position that you better be... Paul Kemet? Yeah, but he was a second rounder. Yeah, yeah.

You better be wowed by a tight end and would he... It's almost like the running back conversation. You know, like it's a you better be wowed. He better be that missing piece of your offense for you to draft him top 20, top 25. Tank for Brock Bowers next year. Well, yeah, exactly. And he'd be a good example of, okay, he's more in that Kyle Pitts conversation where he's just a complete free coup. Which I was surprised.

I didn't realize, I mean, I guess I should have, but I'd never realize that tight ends were eligible for the Bolitnikov Award. But, I mean, because, I mean, tight ends have their own award. I thought it was just a receiver award. But I think with the blurring of, you know, tight end receiver and, you know, like, Bauer's being mostly in the slot, like any place. a lot of outside. It makes sense that tight ends would be considered for Bolinikoff. So I was just surprised to see though. Yeah.

And Bowers is also devastating on end-around type plays. Oh, yeah. He has one of George's longest rushes of the year. Yeah. He's free. It's pretty crazy. Yeah. All right.

Speaking of freaks, I have to bring up something that we touched on on my podcast, the Andy Staples show earlier this week. So it was me and Ari Wasserman who covers college football recruiting for us and Scott Docterman who covers Iowa for us. And we were drafting Thanksgiving sides. And things had gone pretty much according to plan. Like you'd seen mashed potatoes and gravy come off the board.

You'd seen sweet potato casserole. You'd seen the usual suspects had come off the board. Scott, who is native Midwesterner, has been in Iowa most of his life. with his fourth pick selects cottage cheese what have you ever had

cottage cheese on your Thanksgiving spread like as just something you put on your plate alongside the mashed potatoes and gravy or the dressing slash stuffing or the no no that's no I have never heard of that I mean I'm a Midwest

guy I'm an Ohio guy I have never heard of cottage cheese as being a key part of a Thanksgiving meal. And I mean, I'm not a big, I mean, I was actually just feeding cottage cheese my one-year-olds last night and he kind of ruined my own meal having to do that. But wow, no, that's, hey, look, everyone's got their own traditions, their own, you know, and that's, you know, maybe something he grew up with. But that is not one that I've ever heard before. The Heartland is a different place now. And that's what, you know, people, like the Midwest is a is a pretty large area.

Yeah. And so, but Iowa and, and even where he is in Iowa and eastern Iowa, it's different than like Western Iowa is more like Nebraska. And like Nebraska, they have the, the Chile and Sinairo orals combination. That's not a Thanksgiving thing. That's an everyday thing. That's a school lunch thing. Like in Nebraska, in that, in Western Iowa and in parts of Kansas, like that is a traditional school lunch. chili and cinnamon rolls.

Like you rip your cinnamon roll part, you dip it in the chili. It's a strange thing, but it's actually delicious, by the way, if you try it. It's incredible. But so that area has some fairly unique traditions.

And it's funny because his fifth pick, he went with black olives. And I'm an avowed black olive lover. Like, I have black olives on my pizza all the time, but I have never heard of black olives. What I think is going on there with that pertinent. And we had some Iowans chime in and say,

no, no, no, that's normal here. Yeah. I think they have kind of like the chakrudery board that you'd normally put out before a gathering where you have your meats and your cheeses and your olives and all that. I think that is just part of the spread in their in their world. Okay. So it makes more sense when you look at it like that. But the cottage cheese thing is just like, I just burst out laughing. I was like, you did me.

What? Excuse me? That, that threw me. I did not expect that. That's, what is the most unique thing that you have as part of your Thanksgiving meal that maybe is not unique to you, but unique to maybe what most people have? I don't think we have anything unique. Like, I am asked to make mac and cheese for every family gathering. I stole a recipe from a place in Michigan. If you've ever been to Clarkston, Michigan, which is just north of where, you know, the Palace of Auburn Hills is where the old Silver Dome was, it's past a trucement.

on I-75, but they have a restaurant called Clarkston Union. And then they also, that has a sister restaurant called Union Woodshop, which, which says barbecue. And they serve the best mac and cheese I've ever had my life. And so I went and found a recipe on the internet, stole it, have been making it ever since. And so we do that. But I've had people say, well, that's not a normal Thanksgiving side. But in the South, it is.

Like in the South, mac and cheese is the side for every collar greens, I guess. is that is that an that's an that's a side for every occasion in the south yeah not just thanksgiving or anything but i would imagine in the midwest in the west that's not something people typically make yeah definitely a regional thing there uh is there a specific ingredient in the mac and cheese that makes it that differentiates it from well their mac and cheese so their version is the best because they use some local michigan cheeses okay that are very hard to get and I got them the first time I did it and did it right. Now, the kids didn't want to eat it because it's not the cheeses they like. So I've made some concessions over the years. Like to get the kids,

I get kind of more mass market cheeses that will work with their palates. But as they get older, I'm going to start special ordering the real stuff. Because again, if you taste it at the restaurant, it is one of the best things you'll ever eat in your life. Oh, I believe it. I mean, mac and cheese is, it's hard to go wrong. There's so many different ways to do it, but it's all good. How do you do your turkey? It's just traditional, you know, in the oven.

Do you fry it? Do you smoke it? So I've done all of them. And I still like the just roast turkey out of the oven the best. Yeah. I like it if you brine it beforehand and then roast it. So I am doing something different this year that I've never done before because this is the first year that I'll,

get to be home the entire weekend after Thanksgiving since I have no idea when. It's, you know, normally I'm going to a game. But in this case, I just want to see everything. So I'm staying home. And, but my mother-in-law who lives in town, we go to her house for Thanksgiving. So all the leftovers stay at her house. I want leftovers at my house. So I am going to cook a turkey on Wednesday that will live at my house and be my

leftovers. So I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to, put that one on the on the pellet grill and and roast it like i wouldn't have it i'm gonna do 350 and and just roast it and i'm excited about that because i haven't done a turkey in there yet and i imagine it's gonna want it's gonna turn out pretty good oh yeah i'd imagine i've smoked a turkey before and it turned out pretty good i i don't understand i think i feel bad for people that are really hate on the turkey for thanksgiving because it just it tells me that they haven't had someone fixed them a really good turkey before because it like it is a hard

thing to cook because it's it's not forgiving at all you know some meat are very forgiving turkey is not you could easily you can dry it out in a hurry yeah very yeah very quickly i do think if you've got a good temperature probe and and and and don't get two fans like i've smoked them before i've gone low and slow like a 250 and but that makes the skin all rubbery and that's no fun either yeah they've been cooking it in the oven for a long time and it's been turning out great there's a reason. It's really good that way. And so that's what I'm, you know, I'm just going to sit there.

I'm a cheater. I've got the app on my phone that connects to the temperature probe. So the second it hits 165, I'm pulling it. And I am ready to do that. And I will eat one leg immediately and one wing immediately. And then I'm saving the other ones. I love it. Now, that's great.

And I mean, it's, it's, I know my family, they all love turkey. And so, you know, we'll be at my in-laws for lunch. And then we go to my parents for dinner. So, you get two Thanksgiving dinners? Yes. It is great. It is definitely one of the days I look forward to the most every single year.

Because it's just, it's the one day between, well, that and Christmas Day. But there's only two days between August 1st. and May 1st, that I will not work. I will just focus on food, family, and then taking in the football as a fan. And so I'm very much looking forward to Thursday and everything that comes with it. It's going to be beautiful.

And so if I get everything done, and there's no weird coaching news on Wednesday, I will actually have Wednesday off as well. So Wednesday and Thursday will be glorious. And it might throw a little, you know, maybe, maybe the first showing of Christmas vacation happens on Wednesday. Nice.

We've already done it. We've been there. It's once November 1st hits, it's Christmas season here. We did that too. We took down our Halloween decorations and put up our Christmas decorations. I'm staring at a Christmas tree right now

in my office. So it's that Christmas is a two-month holiday for us, no doubt. Yeah, my daughter got a Christmas tree for her room this year. So like, and she keeps adding different things. Like every time she and my wife go out, something else comes home that winds up going into her Christmas display in her room, which is, so she's, she is going to have Whoville in her

room by the end of like the next two years. I'm just, I'm intrigued to see where it goes. I'm excited because we, uh, my wife grew up with just, uh, fake trees, fake Christmas tree. And, uh, we, that, that's what we've done in the last few years because we, you know, We still have. I can't talk them out of it. I'm trying. Well, this year we're getting a real tree. And so I'm looking for, because to me, that was Christmas growing up.

You go out to the Christmas tree farm and, you know, you cut it down yourself. You know, I, and I'm excited to take my kids this year to go cut down a tree, bring it home, drag it home. Hopefully, it doesn't fly off the move. A lot of sap. Exactly. I can't wait for that. It'll be, you know, that's the type of memories that I remember. and so I'm excited to give that to my kids.

Oh, that's, I can't wait. I want an entire Clark W. Griswold experience for your whole family. Minus, minus the going under the truck hauling logs. Don't do that. So I can't wait. When you unfurl the tree and all the windows break and let's make it as close to Christmas vacation as you possibly can. Well, Dane, I think we need to get started enjoying all this food and football. I hope everybody else is going to do that.

I hope you have a healthy, happy, and safe Thanksgiving. I hope if you're driving somewhere right now that we've helped you pass a little bit of the time and that you're being careful, stop it and get some nice gas station coffee if you're tired. But thank you so much for listening. We love you guys. We appreciate you. We're thankful for you. And just enjoy this weekend because it's going to be amazing.

We'll talk to you later. This was the Athletic Football Show.