The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Prospects to Pros, Mailbag Edition: Michael Penix Jr.'s place in the QB3 discussion, Keon Coleman the WR2?, top position groups in the '24 class, and more

Episode Date: September 20, 2023

Nate Tice and Dane Brugler open up the mailbag on this episode of Prospects to Pros. The guys discuss Michael Penix Jr. (and J.J. McCarthy) in the context of the QB3 race, consider how close Keon Coleman is to cementing himself as the WR2 in the class, and find some agreement on the best positions in this class, plus a whole lot more.Follow Nate on Twitter: @Nate_TiceFollow Dane on Twitter: @dpbruglerSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTubeThis episode is sponsored by Sleep Number®: Save $400 on the New Sleep Number® c4 smart bed. Plus, special financing for a limited time. Only at Sleep Number® stores or sleepnumber.com. Sleep Number. The Official Sleep and Wellness Partner of the National Football League. See store for details.This episode is sponsored by Duer: Don't miss out - for 15% off, go now to shopduer.com and use my promo code: maysThis episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/MAYS and get on your way to being your best self.This episode is sponsored by Burrow: Show Burrow you’re listening to The Athletic Football Show by shopping at Burrow.com/mays and get 10 percent off your first order. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football shows Prospects to Prospects to Pros. Hello, and welcome to Prospects to Pros. Sponsored by Invesco QQQ, the official ETF of the NCAA. I am your host, Nate Tice. We have our first mailbag of the season, first mailbag that we have done as a pairing, as a duo, the duo being me, Nate Tice. And as always, the athletics draft expert, Dane Bruegler. How you doing today, Dane?

I'm doing good. Still feeling a little numb from that Chubb injury last night. But you know what? You got to power through. And that's it's just, I don't know, I think all of us in the NFL around the league just, it couldn't happen to a better guy. You know, that's a thing. Right. And so it's if anyone could battle back from it, it's Chubb.

He has a guy that had a left knee injury before. The guy's, you know, he's made out of vibranium anyways. You know, like he's going to be able to bounce back. is just how long is it going to take? And, you know, the Browns have some contract decisions to make at the running back position. So what does this mean for the Browns this year? There's so many, in the way, especially the way the game played out last night. So many questions come from that injury.

But just a shame because it's such a good player, such a good guy. By all accounts, supposed to be just a tremendous human, just a tremendous person and everything, great teammate, everything you want from a football player. And I think there is something about when a guy gets hurt and it's just that look at defeat right away, like, where it's just like, they know where they're just like, yeah, that's it. Oh, that, that one, those are the ones that, I mean, yeah, a person really making a lot of noise when they get hurt too. But like, those are the ones that are just like, man, they really sink in, especially a star like that, like you're saying. And I think it's going to be extremely interesting for what happens with this Browns team because of some of the struggles with the passing game and some of the stuff that they're trying to blend together. So a lot of elements.

I hope Nick Chope comes back because he's one of the best players in the league at any position. And, I mean, just such a dynamic talent. So hopefully it gets healthy. That does sing. That does stink overall. It really does. Big opportunity for Jerome Ford. John Ford.

Second year guy who, I think you liked him maybe a little bit more than I did. But, you know, I still, I got that like fourth round type of grade on him. And that was the third round. It wasn't like, I was super, super high. Yeah. Right. And so this is a big opportunity. I mean, he has speed.

He's got some burst to him. It's just a matter of, and he's playing behind a really good offensive line. Right. But to your point about the passing game, I mean, Stefansky and Watson have to be on the same page. It's not going to matter. So it's going to start with the quarterback and play caller. And then how everything just evolves from there. That'll kind of tell the story of the rest of this Brown season.

Yeah, the floor of that run game was so high with you up that. They could have time to take, you know, take their time with the passing game. Now it's like, well, this has got to be show ready. You're on air, like very, very quickly. And I think some people were starting, I think people were starting to realize what we saw last season from that passing game with Deshaun Watson and now early this season. It's like, yeah, this is becoming a trend. And now, like you said, I like Jerome Ford, but he's not Nick Chubb.

So it's going to be very, very interesting in next couple of weeks. So having said all that, got a little weekly talk with that. Let's get to our first mailback question. I'm excited to do this. Thank you guys, sending in all the responses on Twitter. and to my email. I've learned a lesson to maybe make a separate email for this type of stuff. So lessons learned as you're hosting your first mailback question from Milback Shell.

So here's the first question from Arrowhead Price from Twitter. He noticed, or his tweet, I've noticed the deliberate avoidance of Michael Pennix Jr. Is this just the injury history? Is the league just way out on him for that reason? Others in draft media see him as a possible QB3 for 2020. Dane, where do you want to start with Michael Panix Jr. from Washington quarterback. Yes, Washington quarterback. You know, I, this is a legitimate Heisman contender.

This is a guy that is, you can make the argument, Washington is one of the best offenses in college football. This is a legitimate college football playoff contender. The Pac-12 has got a lot of good quarterbacks. Michael Pennock is right up there in terms of college quarterbacks. Now, as a prospect, I've studied. at all three of his games this year. I think the number one takeaway from his film is the Washington receivers are really good. Yeah, and we've talked about them a little bit before.

Rome O'Donze is one of the best in the country. Good size speed athlete, really coordinated ball catcher. The accuracy with Pennix, it's just okay. It's not, I would not call it a strength to his game. But that allows a guy like O'Donzié to consistently bail him out and really show off that catch release. I mean, he's making full extension grab. Highlights. Yeah, right. He's catching behind him. It's like, oh, that's awesome,

but it's like the throw is pretty crap. Right. Like, there's so many of these targets that are going to him that I'm like, okay, why is he have to, wire his feet off the ground right now? Like, they shouldn't have to be, but he needs to jump and make this full extension grab. You know, Dunez, I mean, he made my top 50. No surprise.

You know, he's making a strong case for first round status. Jalen McMillan's probably the best route runner of Washington's wide outs. Works mostly out of the slot. Nice tempo. He can free himself pretty easily. He's really improved too, I thought. He's looked really good this year.

He has. Yeah, no. And then Polk, the other one. Washington could have 3,000 yard receivers this year. Like, that's how good this offense is. But back to Pennix, he's really confident. He's really aggressive as a quarterback. And I love his eagerness to use the entire field.

But like I said, I don't think. you come away from his film saying ball placement is strength for him. And on paper, I think people are maybe surprised by that because the completion percentage looks great. I mean, it looks awesome on paper, but the tape says something different. And aside from the receivers, Pennix really benefits from that Washington offensive line. He has, I looked up over 700 dropbacks at Washington the last year and change. He's been sacked only five times.

The blocking is giving him time. Sit in the pocket, find a target. So I don't know. What have your impression's been of Pinnock so far? Yeah, the accuracy stuff comes up. And I think exactly what you say. You look at the stat lines and then you look even how far he's pushing the ball. And you're like, oh, wow, that must be something's cooking there.

And there is something cooking. The offense is awesome. The designs are awesome. The past catchers, like you mentioned, the offense line. It's a really, really fun offense. And there is some talent. Like, he does have some pop to his arm and he can push the ball and drive the ball. There is so much issues with his footwork.

and his timing, that that's where I get very hesitant, especially for someone that has, you know, he's an older player and he also has medical history. So he also has those kind of blemishes to start off with. But he overstriads a lot as a thrower. And that's because he's trying to. Yes. It makes things late. It's a Byron left witch problem.

It makes things late. It's elongated. It leads to sprays, the overthrowes. If you notice at Pennix, he misses everything high. And if you're listening to this right now and you can't just overstride. Stride like really long, like you're almost stretching. watch what your shoulder does. It lifts up.

And that's what he does time again. He gets away with it right now. And there's some times where he makes some good throws and it's good. But then there's times where it sprays. And like you said, the pass catcher jumps up and he's wide open anyways. So the room for error is just so great. He has the longer throwing process. And also just the, he's not the quickest processor at this point in time.

It does take a second for him to pull the trigger. And then the trigger takes forever to pull. And with the anticipation as well. A lot of times he's waiting for the receiver to come open or a guy to come out of his break. Got it in there. Right. And then, okay, I'm going to fire it. And like you said, he can get away with that now against Pack 12 defenses or against Michigan State's defense.

That's not going to be the case against NFL teams. And so, no, I agree. That matches up with my notes. I wrote down how inconsistent tempo in his drops, it easily throws off his timing, his accuracy. He can throw the ball. 50 yards, no problem. Oh, yeah. I think that, like,

he has some really pretty nine routes, post routes, where he's putting the ball out for his receivers to go make a play, but on some of the more timing throws. And he can drive it, but because he does wait,

there are oftentimes where he's just, there are throws he shouldn't make where it's from the opposite hash and he's trying to go the other way. And I love that eager to us to use the entire field, but he's just not going to get away with those throws with his level of arm strength in the NFL. There's not a lot of finesse there right now. And it's just you, you want to see, when you're taking a guy, especially as people

are talking about him as like, want to anoint him as a first rounder, it's like, no, there's got to be so much more time. We're talking about him in the context of quarterback three. We're not saying like he's should have be drafted and he belongs in the CFL and, you know, whatever. Third or early fourth on him right now. Like in the like I'm kind of hovering that fourth round range with him right now. There's a much better chance of him going fourth.

round than being a true contender for quarterback three. I think that's, and that's fine. Like, that's, that's nothing to stop that. You know, like that's a track to quarterback. Right, exactly. And, you know, he'll, he'll be drafted. He'll be in the NFL. He'll be in a camp.

He'll be on a team. And, you know, we'll see where he goes from there. But based on what we've seen so far, I just don't think he's a realistic contender for quarterback three. Yep. And I would agree with that. Okay. All right.

So our, our, our next one, also from Twitter. This is from Tyler Green. with four ends? Yes. Does Sanders, Shudur, Sanders have a real sick chance to battle Drake May for the number two overall pick? Dan, what do you think there? So I still think it's a long shot that anyone except Drake May is that second quarterback drafted.

But it's September. I'm keeping an open mind to this because, well, for a few reasons. First, how Shadur Sanders has played. I did a film room this week on the last. athletic, breaking down that Colorado State tape. And man, the poise and presence that he plays with is just, it's so impressive. You know, it's not all perfect. But man, he, the, that poise that he plays with, there's something there.

There's something to that. I, the other reason, I can understand why some won't be head over heels about May because of some of the reckless tendencies. Three games this year, he has the same number of interceptions as he does touchdown passes. and that speaks to an offense that's still trying to find itself. If it's a coordinator, the weapons are relatively new. So I still think that that will, he'll finish with far more touchdowns and receptions when it's all said and done.

But this early, it's still an offense trying to find themselves. And this is also something interesting that was talking to a scout about Sanders. He mentioned how with Sanders, he threw out the possibility he doesn't think, Sanders is necessarily a lock to enter this draft. He might just choose to stay at Colorado one more year and he made some good points. First, you know, you have the NIL money. No, it's not the same as top 10 money, but if, let's just say Sanders, he's considered a top 50 guy, but he's not convinced he'll be a top 10, top 15 pick.

Colorado's the biggest brand in college football right now. The NIL money that he can get from that, it's crazy. It could definitely make him feel better. putting off the NFL for one more year. And then secondly, you look at this Colorado roster, they're going to be in position to add some big-time recruits or transfers in the transfer portal in this off season. I mean, who wants,

there's a lot of guys looking at what's going on in Colorado saying, I want to be part of that. I want to play for Dion. The rocks on the sideline, masterpiece is on the sideline. Like, yeah, I want to be here. In the current state of college football, you can just get up and transfer if you want. Like, that's a thing.

And so, obviously it's not quite that simple. I mean, but it's much easier than it was before. And so you look at this Colorado team, you make a few additions in recruiting in the portal. They're a realistic contender for a national title in 2024. Remember, the college football playoff,

they expand to 12 teams next year. So Travis Hunter will be back one more year. Would it really be a shock if they decide to run things back? Right. and make another little two-year cycle and really launch themselves. Because we got to see once they get into it's thick of the schedule too, so the USC and Oregon and all that. That's it.

Oregon this weekend. Yes, that's going to be very, very fond. It's, I, okay, I'm a big fan of May anyways,

and I have Sanders has the first half of last game against Colorado State. And I watched every snap. That game was a lot of fun, just period. I mean, I love late night football anyways, like late late night football,

West Coast games, but like that one was, That was, that was some good stuff. It's 2.30 on the East Coast. I mean, that game's over. And, like, there's still, I mean, I was glued to the TV. I know a lot of people that were. It's crazy.

So many cool moments in that game. But, and Sanders in the first half, I was like, okay, come on. Like this, we got to see a little more. He wasn't really pushing the ball. And they were doing a great job in Colorado State's defense. And then when things opened up in that fourth quarter and seeing him driving on some throws over the middle, yes, Colorado State was just running cover two. But he hasn't beaten that yet.

And now he's beating that. And that's what you want to see. And this is why I get high on guys is they improve. You want guys to be launching into the league. You don't want them plateauing into the league. You want to see him getting better at the small things. So seeing him ascend in that second half has made me a little bit higher on him than maybe I was even going into that. Having said all that, I still don't think he's anywhere near at this point in time to May, even with the box score line with May.

I don't think people, and again, it's North Carolina. They're playing middle of the afternoon games. not getting all these headlines like Colorado is, is even with the interceptions, which they said four, I'd say three of them, I'm kind of mad at him about. Reckless. Yeah. Reckless. Just trying to do too much, which was my issue with him going into the year. Sometimes he tries to do a little too much.

How he's responded to them and the throws that he makes and the athlete he is, it's, he's really special guys. Like I'm a big fan of him, but he does some things that are like up there. Like he's, to me, it's like almost basically, unless he just totally. out, which I think it's the opposite. I think they're really finding their footing and really starting to send. I think he's just a pen, a marker in of top five. That's how I view him. Anyway, so I would agree with you. I mean, like I said, I'm keeping an open mind, but I, it is a long shot that it's a long shot that he's going to fall out of top five, fall out being that quarterback too. But it's not off the board. And that's, that's what you're trying to say to is that like,

anything could happen. We never know. Look at what, look at what fast Joe Burrell rose up the board. It's like, you know, I know that's a once in the kind of decade kind of thing. But it's like, You never know. You just never know. And that doesn't mean that's necessarily the right thing. I mean, Zach Wilson, for example. I mean, the way he rose with the hot start, he had at BYU and in hindsight how, okay, maybe there were a few more red flags there.

But, you know, it happens. So, yeah, but no, I'm with you. Drake May, for all the reasons we liked him coming in, those reasons are still there. And he's a player that's getting, he is getting better, even if it doesn't manifest itself in the box score. He, he, he's. the quarterback after my heart, man. Like he is just size, arm strength, scrambling, he tries stuff.

Every drive he's trying big boy throws. And that gets him in trouble. But then it's also, it's just, man, he's got really fun package. So I'm excited. All these guys, there's 20 quarterbacks we could talk about every week. And it's so cool watching them kind of ebbs and flows of this week or of this season. Speaking of quarterbacks and speaking of the QB3 race potentially,

Adam's up profit. some of these Twitter handles are just so funny to say out loud. Adam's Up Prophet said or asked, what would JJ McCarthy, quarterback from Michigan, need to put on film this year to solidify himself as QB3 to you? What specifically do you see as a weakness in his game? Conversely, what are things he excels at? I know McCarthy was your QB3 going into the season.

After a month, what's kind of your updated take on McCarthy? Well, two games going into the year, J.J. McCarthy was looking like the no doubt quarterback three in this draft. He was cooking. He was looking great against subpar competition. But he struggled pretty bad against Bowling Green on Saturday. And that's what you worry about with him. It's just it's all about consistency.

And coming into the year, he was my quarterback three because of the size, the athleticism, the arm, the intangibles, all in the plus category. But I also put him at quarterback three projecting better consistency out of him throughout this season. And, you know, we're right to remember he, this is second year's a starter. So he's still just a very young player. The, the rawness element to his game, it should be expected. But now, okay, your second year's a starter. Let's see you turn that into more consistency. But this is a quarterback with all the tools. And so we're seeing his development in real time this year. He's a playmaker out of the pocket. I love his creativity. He's a four or five athlete, throws well on the run. I want to see him be more consistent, picking

apart defenses from the pocket, especially when he has to step up, work on a second or third read. Can he do those things consistently and also be accurate? So like I mentioned, it was East Carolina, the first one, UNLV, the second game. We saw those things where he was on point. He worked inside or outside of structure. He was delivering strikes to every level of the field. We saw anticipation throws. But then against Bowling Green, he reverted back to that inconsistent assistant version, the raw version of McCarthy that we saw at times last year. And, you know, the thing that I struggle with with McCarthy also is with just the Michigan schedule.

And it's just, it's really tough from an evaluation perspective. It does. They don't play anybody. I mean, they're going to be double-digit favorites until November. Yeah. When they go to Happy Valley and face Penn State. That's it. And then obviously, they'll have Ohio State and then beyond whether that's the playoffs or

whatever. But, you know, I just, you know, they've got Ruckers this weekend, which, you know, Rutgers is a solid defense. They've got a corner that could be drafted next year. They've got some guys, but just wish there was better competition to more fairly evaluate J.G. McCarthy. It's the good and bad because you want to see them try what they do, see what they try to do against good competition and see what they can get away with or what they can accomplish and or see what punishes them. And so when you see it against the lesser competition, you're kind of always like, is that kind of a fluke thing? Is that actually what you are?

And what you're saying too with McCarthy is that my biggest thing with him was, well, one, adding to his frame, want to see that, but he is a good athlete. And so that's always one way to kind of mitigate it. And he has decent size, solid size,

actually. Height, I mean, but frame. Frame, yeah, frame, length and height,

yes. But it's, was pushing to the outside sometimes was that he would be that that hair late that you were kind of just mentioning. And he has pretty good arm strength and everything. but it was just that, just like we mentioned with Pennix, those windows are so much tighter at the NFL level. So I just wanted to see more. The guys get better at that as they anticipated a little bit more.

I thought this past game against Bowling Green was him kind of making some rookie mistakes in the sense of I'm on my first read and I'm hanging on at hell or high water. And I know I should be checking it down or getting to number two and then just still launching it anyways. And it's kind of one of those, yeah, you can get away with it against Bowling. green and yeah, you're trying some stuff. But the process of trying that stuff was a little bit, ah, man, you don't want to see a guy doing that as they get more starts. That was like a freshman mistake. So I'm still not like, I mean, what did he show the first couple of weeks? I'm excited to see once his Big Ten schedule starts picking up and see how he operates. You're not going to get a ton of attempts out of him just how Michigan plays. So you have to kind of, again, extrapolate what you

do see. But I want to see him still trying stuff, but doing. it more in the flow of the operation as opposed to kind of maybe going rogue. And that's a great point because against Bowling Green, I think he only had like 15 dropbacks. It's so hard. Right. And part of that was by design because he was struggling a little bit, three picks. You know, the one in the red zone, he just wasn't fast enough with his eyes. You know, he just wasn't seeing everything, especially with a condensed field like that.

So, yeah, it's something that, again, we're seeing him, this, this is such a pivotal year for his quarterback development and we're watching it in real time. So, you know, it's important not to overreact to the good and overreact to the bad, but just kind of take everything and the body of work as it presents itself. And so it's this quarterback three conversation, we've talked about it every episode and we're going to be talking about it every episode moving forward probably. It's going to come up in some form or fashion because it will be in flux all the way through April, I'm guessing, as we kind of, you know, debate how these quarterback shake out.

And all these guys have resumes that they can build off of. It's not like a lot of like, we're squinting to like make, make a guy happen. We're not trying to make fetch happen here. It's like, no, all these guys have cases. And it's, that's, it's not the end of the year once the draft cycle really picks up and everybody asks when the beast is coming out. It's, this is September still. And that's the ebbs and flows of as a prospect and watching these guys. And that sometimes we, you know, we're going to talk about some guys after we have four weeks, six weeks to see.

And that's really what is at the end of the season. It's something I've benefited from the past. It's like, oh, I'm going to start watching college film in January. Oh, which games am I going to watch JJ McCarthy? Oh, I'm going to watch Penn State. I'm going to watch Ohio State. Right now, we have to respond to what he's doing right now. And that's the kind of fun of this and also the things like you said, you just don't

want to get too high or low sometimes. Right. Yeah. No, that's well said. It's double-edged sword. So next one on Twitter, Jay Chappie Stick. When you're in the middle of a play, I get it could be hard to want to slide or avoid hits if you're a big athletic guy like Anthony Richardson who doesn't shy from contact. What can the Colts do to get through to him on playing smarter?

Or is this all on AR? I love this question for you because obviously you're, first of all, you're a big AR guy, Anthony Richardson. But you're also a big quarterback yourself, you know, like you have some perspective. Now, obviously you're not a four-three athlete. Yeah, they run a four-four. No, right. But, you know, it's, you know, he had the concussion on Sunday. If you're, just say you're the Colts quarterback coach, how do you suggest or train your quarterback to just not be as reckless, but without losing that aggressiveness?

I mean, I don't think you should stop calling quarterback runs. You know, it's part of what makes Anthony Richard, especially as a rookie, part of what makes him a productive quarterback. So how do you teach a guy like this to better protect himself? And that's what you say right there too is that it's always going to be a him. Like that's an aspect of his game is that he's going to be a runner. Like and it's why not? You know, like the two rushing touchdowns they had on Sunday were beautiful. And he's not a reckless scrambler, which I will.

give him credit for it, even in college. Like, he doesn't run just to run. Like, he truly is trying to work from the pocket. So that's nice, at least in that aspect. But as a true, when he does tuck it and he is trying to get the extra yards, is learning not, pick your fights. Is this the fourth quarter and we need a first down to win the game? Okay, do what you got to do.

Is this middle of the second quarter on a second at eight and you're getting three yards? Okay, you don't have to try and truck a linebacker. This is guys like Dante Colpeper had to go through this. Cam Newton is the number one example. Josh Allen has never learned this. He's still trying to do flips over guys in the middle of the first quarter on a third and 20 when he's 10 yards short of the sticks. It's like, some of these guys, you've got to let them be athletes, and you can only say so much because then their instincts come into play. Right.

But I think it's just that balance. You teach them. And I've always said, if you want to get through it, a quarterback is have them watch that 2016 week one Panthers first Broncos game and watch the shots that the Broncos were taken on Cam Newton. and how much that altered his career. And, and, I mean, those other hits accumulated, but just really got to drive home the messages, sometimes throw the ball away, sometimes slide. It's so much more accepted to slide now.

It used to be back in the day, if you slayed you, it's like, no, you get off the field. Georgia Lear, when I was a freshman at UCF, was like, if you slide it run out of bounds, like, I'm taking you off the field. So it was, yeah, so like that's some guys instill that. But nowadays it's like, no, we're paying you a lot of money. You're the star of the team.

We're going to use you. We have to save you. But you just have to get through to them and learn that they're going to be that way. They're going to be a little bit of a wild horse. You want them to be, but it's just like maybe save the two, three hits that that will add up over the years. I mean, Richardson's 245 pounds. So, you know, you feel good about the body armor and the fact that he can be someone you feel okay, taking a few hits a game. But yeah, to your point, it's all about picking and choosing where those hits are coming and making sure the juice is worth

to squeeze, right? That's exactly it. Yeah, it's now saying that and then dialing it home to him to make sure that he grasps that, especially in the moment. Yeah, that's, you know, it's like trying to tell Tim Tebow to change his throwing motion. Like it's not that easy, you know, like it's not how. Both start flying. You're going to go back. You're going to revert back to what you know.

And to Anthony Richardson, I'm going to try and truck this guy over. Yes. It's these guys, they got here how they played their whole lives. Like you're as an NFL coach, you're just giving them tools that they choose to use. And sometimes it cuts through and sometimes they use them, but sometimes they're going to just keep playing. And we'll see. But he's been a lot of fun so far. Next one from RLADS SI.

How would you compare the tight end groups from 2023 to 2024? The 2023 group was one of the deepest we have seen. But 2024 looks more top-heavy with average depth. What do you think about this class so far, Dane, how it compares to last year's class? Yeah, that's a good question. And David's a good follow, by the way, if you weren't doing that already, when it comes to draft coverage, he's pretty good. This year's tight end class has a clear alpha at the top, right, with Georgia's Brock Bowers. I mean, this guy, he was someone else I included in my film room this week.

His ability to find the hidden yards is just blows me away. I mean, the athleticism is great, the speed's great. but his competitive toughness with the ball in his hands is awesome. I mean, he will carry guys seven, eight yards, and just those hidden yards add up over a game. It's just, it is really fun to watch. So, I mean, this is a top 10 pick. I don't, I don't really need to sell Brock Bowers that much.

He's an easy top 10, or easy first round guy, likely top 10 pick. But he's the only tight end in this year's class that I really feel strongly about, you know, would be drafted ahead of Dalton Kincaid. or Michael Mayer or Luke Musgrave or Leporto. So I think the 2023 class at tight end, which we talked about so much leading up to the draft last year, I think it's stronger. And I think it is more top heavy with the exception of Bowers. Jatavion Sanders from Texas is really athletic. I think he could be a weapon.

But he's not clearly above that those guys we mentioned drafted top 40 last year. I think we both like Ohio State's Cade Stover as a top senior. Kansas State's Ben Sinat is criminally underrated. I think you should be a day two pick, but he's not a top 40 guy necessarily. So I think that there, and there's a few other tight ends in this class that really helped the depth. But compared to last year, I don't know, I give the clear edge to 2023, both top heavy and depth with the exception of Bowers. How Bowers, I would still, I would probably have over mayor, I think pretty easily last year as well, totally different types. of players, but good in their own right.

Bowers is a true difference maker as a pass catcher, while I think mayor is like ultimately super useful and totally different styles. But then the titan, if any of those guys that went, shoot, we had what, La Porter, a Tucker Kraft, schoon maker, any of those guys that were like tight end four, five, six, seven, I would have as tight end two in this class. I think that's the best way I could put it. Just because I do like a couple of guys. the ones that you just mentioned, the Kansas State,

tight ends are really fun, like kind of a Swiss Army knife type. But I view that more as like, you know, third roundish, you know, kind of a luxury kind of guy, a good teamer and everything, almost like Noah Grayish. I know he went day three, but maybe it kind of like a plus size version of that. And I think the other ones are more, you know, receiving only, which I always kind of knock back. While I thought a lot of the guys last year were good receiving only's type ends, but a lot of guys had a path to be that true inline why, which I think is ultimately more valuable. So I would say Bowers is a true difference maker, a true needle mover.

But then after that, all that big chunk of day two guys that went last year, I would have ahead of what's going on right now at this class. But it's not a bad class. It's just that last year's class was just exceptional. Yes. Yes. No, we see it the exact same way. Okay, awesome.

All right. So next one is Mike Smelts, also on Twitter. If you had to rank in parentheses a loose ranking, the top four position groups for the upcoming draft, what would they be? So obviously we don't know The underclassmen are going to come out Things like that So that's it's early to do this

Yeah at this point in the year I think I'd go with offensive tackle At number one You have the absolute stud at the top With Penn State's Olu Fashnu And then potential for Just amazing depth I had more offensive to tackles

In my top 50 than any other position We also got a bunch of Olu questions so we can talk about him right now. I mean, this guy is, I've only had the chance to talk to him once, but he blew me away. As a person just talking to him, he's extremely smart. So, yeah, he's very, so just away from the tape as a guy, as someone who, he has a very keen understanding of his strengths as a player. Like, he's, the cognitive ability there is really blew me away. you can tell he studies this,

you could tell that he cares. The type of guy that once he dials, really commits himself to something, that's all he does. And he focuses on it and he picks it apart and he perfects it. And then, of course, you watch the tape and you're like,

oh gosh, the way this guy moves, the body control, the coordination, the feet, the play strength. Not a perfect player. A lot of times his hands are late. You know, he, the pastoral. He'll fall off at the block sometimes.

Pass rushers are making the first contact, first meaningful contact, which, you know, he can anchor and halt that pretty quickly. But, you know, when you're going to go up against NFL patch rushes, obviously you want to be a little more combative and control the rep. But this is a guy that has a lot of what you want in a tackle that you're considering top five and top seven picks. So, yeah, I think offensive tackle is the first position that came to mind. And Olu at the top is a big reason for that. I love him. I think he's just an awesome player. We had another question about the Olu.

If you're a team and you have needs of both receiver and tackle, Olu versus Marvin Harrison conversation. Like how do you, and this reminds me of a couple years ago with Jamar Chase versus Pena Sules. You know, with the Bengals at five. And that was a big talking point. And, you know, which direction you go. And I think. at the end of the day, it comes down to, you know, who do you just envision making the bigger impact for your team?

It's hard to find either one of those guys, you know, but I think I would, in this situation, as much as I love Olu, I would lean Marvin Harrison Jr. Just because he's so different, so special in what he offers. So I would go, it's, it'd be harder to find a Marvin Harrison than it would be to find an Olu Foshanoo, not that you're going to find either one of those guys as a plan B, but I think it'd be harder to find the receiver in that scenario. But it's still an interesting thought process. Well, I think it speaks to both players, like even for me, like who could be very hard on receivers, especially taking them early.

I have no qualms who take Marvin Harrison Jr. I'm top five. It's like, I just, yeah, he's that special. The fact that Olu is even into consideration, and even for me, I would maybe, it's certain team makeup. So I go, well, yeah, I'll take the tackle over base. Again, it's all going to come down to the team. The fact that he's even in that conversation with how high we are on Marvin Harrison,

Jr., is like speaks to Olu and the ability that he has. I love him. I think he's fantastic. He's one of the best tackle prospects I've watched in a while, and he only gets better. And it's really cool just watching technique. You said you spoke to his intelligence. And you can see that in the film, even last year, was when defenses run blitzes and games and twists.

His eyes are perfect. and the fact that he doesn't have a ton of starts and he's already showing that. I should say perfect. That's mean. But it's as good as you could hope for someone that has that many starts. And it's just, yeah, he's especially the athletic traits and everything. Also outside, so outside of tackle, how did you rank the top four position group? So you went tackle first.

Tackle first. Second, I'd go quarterback. Out of QB, yeah. Yeah. Star power at the top, obviously. And then just the quarterback. Three conversation. the depth that we'll see throughout day three.

It'll really be interesting which quarterbacks say, man, screw this. I'm going back to school because I, this is ridiculous. Even All-Star games, like, you know, the Senior Bowl, you know, doing their cut list to, I mean, I think they're going to have to take eight quarterbacks. Sometimes, some years they only take six. I think they're going to have to take eight. Shrine game, same thing. But no matter if you go to the Shrine or the Senior Bowl as a quarterback, there's enough of these all-

star spots to go around that there's going to be a lot of these quarterbacks a good chance to show off what they can do. So yeah, did you go offensive tackle at one, too? I went oh, yeah, tackle one, QB2. And then I went receiver three, but I'm actually curious where you went. That's where I went. Yeah. Okay. Again, it's like, it's like tackle. You have the stud at the top with Marvin Harrison. Several other first round possibilities. The senior class of receivers, I don't think is as necessarily exciting as we've had in other years. Malachi Corley. at Western Kentucky receiver I like quite a bit. Had a pretty good game against Ohio State over the weekend.

But even him, he's not a first round guy, probably not a top 50 guy. But still, the underclassman that we potentially see coming out. I know we have a wide receiver question later. I think we'll get to. That's something that you see the depth, the potential depth, and it's easy to get excited about some of these weapons. Oh, I mean, even just watching random games, or I should say random, but Colorado, Colorado State, here comes Horton from Colorado State.

And I think you said he was a borderline top 100 guy for you or trying to make a case for that. Coming into the year, yeah. And that's what I wrote about him last week going into that game. It was funny because last week from my NFL draft watch, my weekly article, I was thinking, all right, we have no ranked matchups this week. Like, what am I going to write about? And I was like, oh, okay, I was like, this is perfect. It's a perfect weekend to watch a group of five prospects. So, okay, watch Western Kentucky against Ohio State to check out Malachi Corley to check out Austin Reed, the quarterback.

These guys will be drafted. probably in the top 125, 150 picks. Also, Tori Horton, he's the one that let off the article against all eyes around Colorado, but Colorado State has a receiver who I think, he's long, he's got speed, he's going to run the four-fours. He was great. Really good ball skills. Yeah, I want to see him get a little bit bigger. He's really lean.

But, you know, he's a guy. They're killing him with all those crossing routes, but I was so impressed to how he got north and was bouncing off guys. He was creating like five, six yards of pop, which I, for a long, leggy guy like that, getting north like that was super impressive how twitchy was. So sorry to kick you off, but he really impressed me on Saturday. I was really, really big fan of his. I was glad that he was able to have that type of stage to kind of tell people, hey, I'm a legitimate guy.

And yeah, so coming into that game, I thought he was a third, fourth round pick with a chance to, you know, get a little bit higher as we get closer to the draft. But yeah, that's Tori Horton's a good shoutout. He's a top five, top six senior receiver this year. Yeah. There's some interesting guys that are kind of really come to fruition. And then what was the fourth position to add on your list here? So I think you could say edge rusher.

I think, you know, we've been underwhelmed, right, by the guys at the top. But there's still first round, top 40 type of guys. You know, guys that could be useful and maybe develop into more. I think defensive tackles are really strong. group. They've got a case for this spot. I'm going to say corner. Okay. I say corner. So I actually you're going to go edge there. But so we had the exact same. There we go. I was actually curious where you went. I actually was curious where you went with the number four here. I kind of went corner by default just because it had a little bit more at the top. I thought than edge did. So I want to hear

kind of your case as well. You know way better than I do. Well, and like wide receiver, the volume of guys, right? We just, we have so many corners that it makes it easier to be excited about the depth and just because there's so many options. So I like the corners at the top and the depth is really promising. So yeah, I think that's, I mean, we've got a question coming up talking about what corners, right? We've got a great segue coming on right here. The next question is Alex Katzen. How do you see the corner class right now?

It seems like there isn't a solidified number one guy right now. Is it fair to say we might only see one or two in round one? I'm more optimistic than that. I think we'll see, you know, at least three in the first round, maybe more. Cooley McKinster, he's not going to be from Alabama Corner. He won't be for everyone, but he's a terrific prospect. You know, he's not going to run a 4-4-2 and, you know, the speed won't necessarily blow you away. But he's just a really smart, good-sized player, has length, knows how to use it.

There's just a lot to like it by Kool-Aid. I'm still super high on Nate Wiggins from Clemson. I think he's the best defensive player on that team. She doesn't get enough credit. Yeah. I just, I'm not sure why many are sleeping on him. He's the first wrong guy. Of all the guys, he looks the part. Like, I mean, Kool-A does too.

But like, I look at him and how he moves. I'm like, that's a corner. That's an NFL corner right there. So sorry to catch you off again. But I'm glad you highlighted Nate Wiggins before the season because I got to kind of watch, keep an eye on him as the season's got along. Yeah, he had a pick six. It's against FAU, but still he had a pick six on Saturday.

So making some plays out there. Cooper DeGine from Iowa. This is a first-round player. That's awesome. I'm not budging on that take. He's a first-round player. One of the best all-around D.Bs in college football. Kaelin King from Penn State.

He's also in the mix. So, I mean, that's four. That's four. Yeah, that's four right there. And then, look, we always have guys at the position that they rise throughout the season. Last year, it was Deonté Banks, right, from Maryland. Two years ago, Northwestern, Greg Newsom to the Brown. You know, he was a late riser that, even for scouts, I know talking to some scouts didn't really, and he was an underclassman too.

So they hadn't done enough work on him at that point. But it wasn't until November, December that they realized, oh, okay, this guy's legit. So this year, you know, who's going to be that guy, that corner who rises up late? Ohio State's Denzel Burke. He's been awesome through three games. he looked more like that 2021 version of Denzel Burke as a freshman when he looked like a future first rounder. So, yeah, that I think this is a position where it's a stopwatch position so we can see late risers all the time. But we also see some athletes, especially underclassmen, kind of come out of nowhere in October, November and say, hey, I belong in that first round mix as well.

It's because cornered just by nature, it's there's so many loles and where they're not doing stuff on film. but also the box score numbers. You can't, a guy might have 22 tackles of one pick, so you look at their stat and you're like, oh, I don't see a star here. You know,

like you said, Nate Wiggins gets a pick six and also you keep an eye on that. But if a guy doesn't have a lot of action, a lot of box scores, that might not be their fault until you start watching them. And so,

and what we talk about with JJ McCarthy in matchups. You don't sometimes get guys until you see, oh, I got, all right, I'm watching, I'm just making one up here,

but I'm watching Florida against Vanderbilt. Oh, well, Vanderbilt has a corner. I might have to keep an eye on. Just make it up an example, but that's what kind of happens. You have to wait for matchups to kind of bring your eyes to it. You mentioned the Ohio State Corner as potential riser.

Our next question, another segue. It's like you aligned this pretty perfectly. There you go. Rich G780 said, it's early in the season, I know, but there is a prospect, do you expect to rocket up draft boards through the All-Star Games and Combine process? So, yeah, this dovetails nicely because there are a few corners that I, don't think I'd get enough attention, but could see them rising throughout the process.

Toledo's Quignon Mitchell, 6-1, 200 pounds. He ran in the 4-3s over the summer for NFL Scouts. I think he's a guy that going to the All-Star games, going to the Combine, he'll test really well. I think he'll be a riser. T.J. Tampa from Iowa State, another senior corner. Another guy with size, 6-3, 200 pounds.

Not going to run quite as well as Mitchell, but still going to test well. He's a former Hooper. Basketball scholarships at high school. The jumps will be pretty impressive. Should run on the four-fours. So Tampa's another guy to keep on the radar. And then Jaday Barron from Texas,

that pick against Alabama. Coaches rave about him, the impact he's had in the secondary. So those three corners, Mitchell, Tampa, and Barron. All three seniors, guys that I don't hear talked about a ton. Don't be surprised.

if maybe those three are quote unquote risers between now and April. No, those are good ones. And like we said, I'm just right from the last question. So that's the position. As soon as they get the clock, oh, wow, you got 32 and a half inch arms. Oh, you just ran a four four flat. Oh, okay. Oh, let's go back to that tape that we maybe skimmed over before.

It's a great point about, you know, you can't, you can't look at the box score and understand what a corner did on, you know, it just, it doesn't tell you. Like, obviously. It's Sous Carter. Like, right. Right. That's why with Soss Gardner. I was late to the party on Soss Garner because I knew he was good, but I was like, okay, is he really a top five pick or is he more of a mid to late first round? Because he, no one targeted him.

It was so hard to get a true read on how good he was when nobody throws in his direction. And, I mean, finally, by the time, you know, we get to the draft process of my, I'm a believer in this guy. He's a, you know, he finished fifth overall or whatever in my rankings. but I mean, he was a guy that I was a little bit late to because we just didn't see enough targets going his way. And I think obviously you'd love, you want to see these corners with double-digit passes defended and at least four picks, five picks, whatever.

But it just doesn't always work out like that. And another example of that that I've learned from is Martin Emerson to the Browns. One thing that I really just did not like about him at Mississippi State is the ball production. It just really bugged me with him. And I ended up, and I like the athlete, I like the size. I liked his demeanor, but I knocked him down because the lack of ball skills, the lack of ball production, it really turned me off. And I was wrong on him because, you know, even though the ball production wasn't there,

and the ball production really hasn't been there in the NFL either, but he's still a really, really good, good player, good corner. I think the Brown's got themselves a steal with, what he's, a third rounder, mid-third-rounder. I think he's a really good player. I remember when he got drafted. My only thing I had to say about him was, I was like, oh, Browns are sticking to their type. They drafted the youngest player remaining. And I think that was, that's all you know what I had on him going into it.

I know the guy, we're going to have bleachery reporter, the person that was in charge of the DVs. Like, he liked him, but it wasn't like an overwhelming like. It wasn't like, oh, I have a first round grade on him. But that's the thing. Corners is hard. Corners is hard to scout. Oh, yeah. It is such a hard position.

I mean, those, there's so much in between that you have. to pay attention to and you just don't know and they're so scheme dependent at times too so it's that's it's very very hard some guys you could watch as much film as you want and you'll never see them back pedal you know like yeah right what they're asked to do in college and projecting that forward like it's it is a very difficult position to to scout not in every situation but definitely in some yeah absolutely all right so next one also on twitter from josh trailer o three how's paris johnson junior doing so far. He's an offensive lineman for the Arizona Cardinals. His top 10 pick. Not too many people are talking about him, but he seems to be doing pretty well. Dane, did you take a peek at Parris Johnson

Jr. so far this season? And what did you think? So I did the opener. I didn't get to the Giants game yet. Perfect. I did the Giants game and I didn't do the opener. So there we go. Awesome. Awesome. That works. We did not plan that. I thought he played really well in week one against Washington. I was interested in how he would do at right tackle because he was a left tackle and a guard at Ohio State so this is a new position for him. Washington's got that nasty front and he held his own in pass pro.

I think he had maybe one pressure. It was like a half pressure. I would even call it a full pressure. He did have one penalty, but no sacks, no glaring mistakes that led to the offense unraveling. run blocking was a little more of an area that needs work, but I was really encouraged by what he put on film in week one.

I was super encouraged. The Giants game was great. A couple of late league plays, but like, you know, where a guy wins late, but at least that first two, two and a half seconds,

it looked great. I also thought his, this is natural. He was such a young player. And again, like it was, not a lot of time of left tackle and all that. Was his past sets were a lot more consistent as far as slowing down.

You know how he kind of like, he would always have a, he would get caught with his shoulders turned a little bit sometimes and create some edginess. And it's like, dude, you're such a good athlete. Just calm down. Like, you're going to be fine. He's already kind of improving that area, which is really kind of encouraging to see as like somebody in his second start and he's doing it on the right side. So I think it's also fair to ask him to do it on the right side with his youth.

It's kind of scary to have a blind side for rookie tackle. Also with DJ Humphreys and the team makeup and everything. But I think, I thought he looked good. I was very, I like Paris Johnson a lot going on this process, but I think so far, it looks like a good baseline building block for this Cardinals team that needs them. And I've been, I've been impressed. I've been actually, I thought I was going to say he's going to do fine. He's doing fine right now, but I was actually impressed of how he's looked so far.

Yeah. And that's, if you're the Cardinals, you love that. Because that's what you want. You want that building block. You want a cornerstone that you can build around. And so far so good with him, yeah. That's all you want. The next one off of Twitter, next question for a mailbag is, that Brett guy, that underscore Brett, underscore guy, has Keon Coleman from Florida State wide receiver?

Solidified himself as receiver two in this draft class. I think solidified is too strong a word. For this point in the process, at least, you know, he's absolutely in the conversation for wide receiver two. And I can understand the case that he's the favorite maybe at this point. I'd say he's a leader in the clubhouse right now, but there's a lot of golf to be played. That's, and yeah, perfectly put. Because, I mean, against Mississippi State on Saturday, Malik neighbors kind of reminded everyone why he's also in that conversation,

13 catches, 230-some yards, two touchdowns. His ability to put corners just in a blender with that route acceleration is awesome. Amika Abuka from Ohio State, the production, the numbers aren't necessarily just popping off the page. But he had two touchdowns on Saturday that were just really impressive. He's still one of the most talented whiteouts in the country. New quarterback, so take some time. I'm eager to see him against Notre Dame on Saturday.

The body control ball skills just so good with him. And I mentioned O'Donze earlier. So, yeah, this is, it's almost like that quarterback three race. It's going to be fun to talk about throughout the process. There's going to be ups and downs for all these guys. And especially with receivers, it's important to remember that with this topic, just every receiver is different with what they offer. And as much as we want to say, oh, no, this guy's definitely wide receiver two.

I mean, the reality is the answer is going to be different for each team based on the roster, depending on the type of receiver they're looking for. Kionn Coleman and Akbuka, they play the same position, but they don't, right? So it's just like one team could prefer one, another team prefers another. It's just, it's important to remember that context, or, you know, For fans to remember that context as we debate who should be the receiver too, it's just going to differ depending on exactly what you're looking for. It's just like when they're all in the same tier,

that's when it comes down just what flavor you want, what flavor you want to pick for your team. We might have a guy built just like Keon Coleman. So, all right, we want more of the kind of Bruiser Z or zone beating Z. We might want more of a slot guy. Like you never know what these teams want or we will once the process goes along. But that's exactly it. I think there's a lot in that tier where it's not just like Marvin Harrison, blank tier one.

Okay, tier two's just Keon Coleman. It's like, no, tier two's got like you mentioned, half dozen guys at this point in time. And even what I do like about this receiver class in particular is that it's different than last years, which had so many undersized guys. And this year, it's like, okay, we got some size. Like we got some real X's and Zs now, some real guys, vertical guys. And like I said, zone beaters, blockers. So I'm getting excited about that. So I think that's, like you said, it's just always important to remember the tier and also just the flavor that all these teams want.

Yeah, I mean, I'm looking at my, I just put up my receiver rankings in front of me. I'm looking at just the underclassman and like the top six or seven are all above six foot. Now, I mean, that might be a little generous with a guy like a Bucca who's, you know, right on the fringe. But, I mean, these guys are all, you know, decent size. And then you've got, you know, a guy like, like Keon Coleman, who's a legit six four or. Marvin Harris in 6.3 and a half. O'Donza is 6.3. So, yeah, it's a, it is a receiver group of size and guys that maybe are a little more traditional with what teams are looking for for an outside receiver.

I like a dunzy. And dunzy. Is that, I like him. He's the, of those Washington receivers, he's the one that, like, is like, he's, he's, he could do everything because he has size. Yes, speed. He can break tackles. It's ridiculous. I mean, he's a, he's a really good player.

Oh, he's a Vegas guy. I actually didn't know that. I went to Bishop Gorman right down the road for me. They've produced some guys. Yeah, one or two. The guy that I'm sticking with my comparison for him is Chris Godwin. So that's my high, high-end comparison for him. But what I think I could see him as.

Next one from Twitter, and we have two more here, is from Skiesmith 21. We'd love to hear what your top ten prospects looks like from five to six years ago, now that we know what they are as NFL players. Who do you regret, including? and who do you regret not including? So I believe you looked at your 2018 kind of big board and that draft class for maybe this exercise. Yeah, pulling that up. Okay, so hindsight is undefeated, right?

We know that. Oh, yeah. But it is interesting doing these lookbacks because it's, we've had a healthy sample size of who these players are in the NFL. Obviously, we write about some of these guys. We're wrong about some. But understanding the process of how we got there is always, it's always really interesting. So yeah, I'm looking up my top 10 from the 2018 draft. This is the darn old Baker, Josh Allen draft, but also had a lot of pretty good non-quarterbacks that year.

Nate, where were you for the 2018 draft? 2018 draft. I was in the AAF. I was just joining the Atlanta Legends. And getting that show off the road that only had a couple shows before that thing closed out. So, yeah, but that's that I was looking at a lot of practice. squads at that time. I was looking at a lot of guys that were recently cut, maybe in the CFL. So that's what I was doing more than looking at maybe this 2018 draft class.

I do know that Sam Darnold was my QB1 for this class. I was a Sam Darnold guy. So that has anyone that's listened, has known that. But I will say my redeeming thing is that Josh Allen was my QB2. So going into this, but yeah, I was a big Darnold guy. I thought he had, he has everything I like. He still does. Maybe just not the processing. that I've always, that maybe I've wanted, but I have learned something. So I'm sure we'll talk about. Who was your QBW in this class? It was Darnold.

I was a Darnold. I was too. Okay. Yes. I felt like a Josh Allen apologist, but I didn't rank him as high as that. I mean, I still had him in the first round, but he didn't make my top 10. All right. So I'll just, I'll just roll through it.

Yeah. At one was quitting Nelson. Now, look, I'm not advocating in draft a guard with the first pick, but this was just a, look, he's the best football player of watch. So I'm putting him out. one. So, you know, it is what it is. Quentin Elson was one. Yeah. Minka Fitzpatrick was two, actually, which, you know, this is, and that's a good example of, I was okay being wrong on draft day because Mika didn't even go in the top 10 that year. But I felt really good about the ranking. Just because he was such a good football player again, just like Quentin Nelson at one. Give me the best football player. Yeah. And, you know, Minka was at two. Three was Bradley Chubb, pass rusher, four, Sequin Barkley, five cornerback Denzel Ward.

Six was the first quarterback, Sam Darnold. Seven, linebacker, Roquant Smith. Eight was Derwin James. Nine, this is the rough one. Quarterback, Josh Rosen. And then 10 was Calvin Ridley. So, I don't, were you on Twitter back to then? I don't know if you were.

I was not. I got on Twitter or I had a Twitter, but I didn't really like start tweeting until the AAF closed. Then spring that next, that following spring of 2019. I just remember so much discourse with Ridley specifically at the combine. He was a guy that year where all through the process he was the guy. But then he goes to the combine

and he jumped like, it was like 31 on the vert, like a short shuttle was bad. He did well in the 40, it was like a 4-4, but I remember just getting killed in my mentions because all of a sudden Calvin really wasn't good anymore. It was just really strange.

I was like, guys, watch the tape. This guy is just dusting corners up and down the field as a route runner with that speed. I don't care if he, if his vertical is what it is. I mean, this, I'm trusting the tape with this guy. And I don't know. That was such a weird, weird thing during that combine. It was all over the place. He was such a clean prospect.

I even like, mostly even just TV scouting. It was just kind of like, yeah, I mean, this guy's a real receiver. And look how he looks at the pros. He looks like very much a real receiver. He looks just fine. Yeah. Yeah. A guy like Bradley Chubb, what were your kind of feelings on him throughout the process?

I know because he tested very well, I believe. And he was just like I never fully, fully got around on him, but I would be lying if I said I scouted him and like had a report on him or anything. But like what did you feel about him? Because I know he was graded high by everybody at that point in time. Yeah. And I think this was in the time where it's like, okay, Chandler Jones is doing some really nice things. Yeah. And okay, Chubbs, he's got some of that because he's six.

four and a half, 270 pounds, he's long, he ran in the mid four sixes, in the 40, good athlete, and he was productive. He had back-to-back

years of double-digit sacks at NC State. So it's like, okay, production checks out, he's got pretty good tape, he's good against the run. Like,

I felt like there's a lot of things. Now, he wasn't that elite get-off, Von Miller type of player. It's just a little bit different. But the way, the fact that he could win in multiple ways,

that's what really sold me on Chubb or why I was optimistic about what he could be at the next level. So, yeah, he was what my third guy I said. So, yeah, he was pretty high for me. I don't know if he's necessarily loved up to it. Now, injuries have played a part. But, yeah, I thought it was a pretty clear. He's one of those that he's good, but it's just maybe in a different way that I think

people pictured when you take a guy that early in a draft. And I think that it's that disconnect. It's like he's still a good player and everything. Yeah, not a bosa, not a. Yeah. Maybe not even a Khalil Mack. I don't, close, I guess. But, you know, it's not, not Chase Young.

But yeah, he was taken, what pick was he? He was taking fourth. Okay, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I know that's, I know that. His kind of career is always kind of like stuck with me because he was just such a unique guy. Well, and that was the year Elway took him instead of Josh Allen, which was a big that, you know, obviously hindsight's undefeated again. Right.

But I know that that was a big talking point. And always likes tall quarterbacks. I mean, that's exactly. Josh Allen was big, big arm. I mean, just, yeah. It's like it's too much like Farr, I don't want this. But going to, like, all those quarterbacks, like how maybe did you tear them? And this thing is not to like kind of go like, oh, you had Rosen up there and everything.

Because this quarterback class amongst all these ones where a lot of quarterbacks go high did have so many flavors and different types and different narratives around them. you know, with Baker and his success and him being kind of like an analytic starling with his stats and everything and hype around him as far as winning a bunch of college games and the highism and all that. But then, yeah, Josh Allen was the huge wildcard. Lamar Jackson was in this class. So kind of like, do you remember like kind of your initial feelings with all this? Because I remember this the discourse about this quarterback class was just tremendous.

There was a lot about it. Well, I remember I had all five in the first round. I thought all five were Now, how you tiered him That was always something you debated Because a guy like Baker who's so accurate You know, you felt good about All right, that accuracy is gonna

That's gonna transition well to the pro game He moves, he's got that subtle pocket movement He's when he's locked in, it looks nice And hey, it looked good on Sunday For the Bucks when he was locked in Making some anticipation throws And you know, Baker, when he's When he's on a heater, man,

And it looks nice. And so I understand why he went one to the Browns. He was my third quarterback that year. But I also had first round grades on then Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson. Alan, as people were, again, talking about Twitter at that time, everyone was anti-Josh Allen. I mean, it was people almost took it personally. It was weird. But, you know, I just, the fact that he was so big and so, it had so many tools to work with,

it's just, you know, the accuracy, just. got better and better and better. And this is taking into context, the fact that he didn't grow up going to quarterback schools and quarterback trainers. And he was still very much learning on the go. And that played a part in why a lot of people had optimism about where he was headed and its trajectory. And then, you know, with Lamar Jackson, obviously a Heisman trophy winner, a guy that,

you know, there was so much the explosive nature of his game, you know, the athleticism, the way that you felt like you got better and you can continue to see him getting better. And, you know, even if he did need training wheels to start, if he was going to bust out of those training wheels pretty quickly because he's just too good, too talented to just not be something. And so I thought all five of these guys were first round players. And a little surprise, Lamar fell as far as he did. You know, the Ravens taking him with the last pick in the first round. wasn't even the Ravens first, first round pick that year, which is crazy to think about. But yeah, no, it's funny to look at now with hindsight, that's for sure.

I know. And that's even for me, my feelings on this class. And again, it wasn't like a deep dive study. It was more just me. I like to watch all the quarterbacks anyways. It was, I had Rosen high too. It wasn't like, I'm like, ha, ha, ha, Josh Rosen. You watch Josh Rosen.

He threw some pretty balls. His mechanics were clean, clean, clean. And it was, I could see the paths. so easily. I was like, yeah, he's got good size. He's a pretty good athlete as far as like, I would say as a creator, but I can throw on the move. And I was like, okay, this guy's path I could see just so easily. But talking about like quarterbacks that are already maxed out and getting to the pros and then also the room for growth and taking a Josh Allen where we're in basketball taking a Janus and just going like, hey, what's not like, I mean, we're swinging for defenses.

might as well really jack it, really put a full swing into it. So I liked Allen just for just because of that. It was just like I had an experience of being around a more or less inexperienced quarterback with Dante Colpepper and seeing kind of a project guys work out. Alan was even more of a project, I think, just because it's just everything. And you can never, you're betting on mentality and work ethic, but you never know once these guys get paid.

You never know when these guys move across the country. And like, yeah, Josh Allen has worked to create this. what we know him now. So that class is always just a really fun kind of like litmus test as far as how you feel and what you saw. And I think there's a ton to learn from because like Darno's a great been a great learning experience for me too. Like he really has just some of the things that I glossed over before like as far as like getting to the next year, trying some stuff that you shouldn't try. I was like, oh, he'll grow out of it. He'll grow out of it. He'll be fun. He's so young. He's fine. That's it. Right, right. Yeah. And he was a registered sophomore coming out.

Like he was, yeah, it's interesting comparing that quarterback class to the, what, 2021 class where, you know, with Trevor Lawrence and Trey Lance and Zach Wilson, Justin Fields, Mac Jones. I mean, where we're sitting right now, only one of those quarterbacks, we feel, I just speak for myself, only one of those quarterbacks I feel good about moving forward. I really, obviously being Lawrence. And so it that's. And Mac Jones is probably the one of those. I feel second best about. And he was the fifth one to go. Yeah.

But even Max Jones, like, it's hard. You have to really justify why you would feel Mac Jones could lead you to a Super Bowl. You know, like it's hard to really believe that. And it's kind of crazy just looking at those two quarterback classes with, well, five quarterbacks taken in the first round,

each draft. And the two drafts have played out very differently. Totally differently. The top guy worked out for one. The other one is now on his fourth team, I believe, at this point in time. It's crazy. It's crazy. I mean, that class.

How much do you think the Jets would love to have Sam Donald right now? Like, it's just, it's funny how that works. Right. I know. I know. They got their next one already there. Yeah. The Jets draft picks are kind of like they kind of like show what happened.

They took Sam Darnold and Zach Wilson. The kind of, the Jets are always involved in both in this way. both times. I think that's going to do it for this mailbag on Prospects to Pros. Thank you guys so much for joining us. Thank you to Dane, as always. We will be here again next week on Wednesday. I'll see you guys next time.

This was the Athletic Football Show's Prospects to Prospects to Prospects Podcast.