The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Prospects to Pros: Marvin Harrison Jr., Brock Bowers and the other top non-QBs in the 2024 NFL draft class

Episode Date: August 16, 2023

Last week, Nate Tice and Dane Brugler kicked off the 2023-24 football season by taking a look at the top quarterbacks in the draft class, headlined by Caleb Williams and Drake Maye. This week, they dive into all the other positions, headlined by Ohio State receiver Marvin Harrison Jr.Follow Nate on Twitter: @Nate_TiceFollow Dane on Twitter: @dpbruglerSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTubeThe Football 100, the definitive ranking of the NFL’s best 100 players of all time, goes on sale this fall. Pre-order it here.This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/mays and get on your way to being your best self. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show's Prospects to Prospects to Pros. Hello and welcome to Prospects to Pros. I'm your host, Nate Tice. Last week on Prospects to Pros, we took our initial dive into the top quarterback prospects, the 2024 NFL draft. You know, look at the pretty boys, see where those kind of guys stack up. But today we're going to be looking at all the other top prospects from all the other positions that maybe don't get the pub like the pretty boys do, but there are some real blue chippers to talk about. And who else can help me more than the athletics draft expert than Dane Brugler to talk about these blue chippers? So, Dane, how are you doing today? I'm doing good.

You know, my six-year-old daughter was asking me the other day why I just watched football all day. And I talk on the phone. And I tried explaining kind of like my job and, you know, when I'm watching and when I go on school calls and things like that. Let's just say I'm very excited for next week when school starts again. My son, he's upstairs playing my old NES Nintendo system. I try to keep him busy while I do this. So I love my kids. But I'm definitely looking forward to a normal routine again starting next week.

It's the original Nintendo. NES, not a Super Nintendo? That's what I grew up playing. So he's trying to beat Super Mario 3 right now. Of course. Does he know where the warp whistles are? No, no. He has to figure this out on his own, right?

I mean, that's what we had it. We couldn't look it up on the internet. We couldn't, you know, it was all word of mouth. Yeah. You got to ask you, yes, little Johnny's older brother. There you go. The sixth grader. The sixth grader, how'd you find the second warp whistle?

Where did you find it at? That's it. Exactly. So, no, he'll, he's so in the Mario and, you know, he's got a switch and all that. So he, uh, yeah, he'll, uh, he'll be busy for the next couple hours. Like they call those platforming games now, like we used to just call video games. Right. Just, whoa.

No, Sonic and Mario and all that. And I think. platform is a perfect word because it's a great like 101 video games. Like those games are just perfect like fundamentals because you only have the two buttons, you know, A and B, and then you got the moving D pad and that's all you need. And it's just timing and learning the map and learning the level. So it's like it's great,

great fundamentals for the video game playing. I love that. But any sports games for the NES? I can't remember which were the good ones. Technmoble. Yeah, he's got Techmobile. That's on there for sure. That might be one of the only NES games that still works.

That still works on that one. But, no, I was disappointed. Like, there's no Madden for the Switch. So, like, he's really, he got really big into the NFL last year. Okay. He's seven. So he's, you know, still learning things. But he, uh, I was disappointed.

I went to go get Madden for him for a switch and they don't, they don't make it. So, uh, you know, I don't, I don't, I mean, I, I, I'm growing up, you know, we had, what, quarterback club and Blitz. Yeah. All the good ones. Was it? That was, oh, no, quarterback. quarterback club was 989 sports or whatever.

We had NFL Blitz, obviously, NFL Blitz 2000, which was phenomenal. Yeah, we had a few of those. I remember Madden 64 being kind of disappointing after the NES games. But all right, enough of the video game talk, I could do this for the whole episode, especially once you mentioned the Switch, and that's what I play mostly now. Okay. Yeah, the Switch is great. But noted that this draft class, you know, has the two quarterbacks that are going to get a lot of headlines.

And it's going to be a really fun discussion throughout the whole year. I think I put it this way and I think you did the same. Those guys, Drake May and Caleb Williams, Ruby, they're up there. They're top prospects. But this draft class is really interesting because there's some real deal talent at the other spots, especially on the offensive side of the ball, at least in my eyes. So I kind of want to start on the offensive side of the ball. Other players at the top of the draft, other than Caleb Williams, other than Drake May,

what are some other guys, some other blue trippers? We can start with the receiver position because I think there is one guy that can really It comes to mind in this discussion. But other blue chippers at offensive spots, so we'll start with past catchers, maybe go receiver and tight end. Some of the top guys and other names and note that you have, through your summer scouting, have seen so far. Yeah, and I'm mapping out my top 50 right now, my initial top 50 for the 2024 class. That'll go up next week. And the first six guys are all offense.

And I don't see that change. I think they're going to be my top six when I turn the top 50 in. And one is easy with Caleb Williams. Two is pretty easy for me too. That's Marvin Harrison Jr., the Ohio State receiver. It's a challenge to talk about him without sounding like a prisoner of the moment. And trying not to sound too hyperbolic because he's flat out one of the best wide receiver prospects I've ever evaluated. And the thing is, you could tell almost immediately.

Last summer, I tweeted out that Harrison would have. been the no doubt about it wide receiver won in last year's class. And reading the comments now on that tweet are hilarious. I mean, a lot of, oh, he's not even the second best receiver on his own team behind Igbuka and JSN, who are two really good receivers. But look, Harrison's different. And he had something like 11 catches that first year. And just based on those 11 catches, you can tell this guy's different. And I think, I mean, thankfully Harrison lived up to, you know, the hype last year. unstoppable. What you love about his game is just how well-rounded he is. He's got size. He's six-three. He's got long arms. He's expected to run in the four-fours. He's been clocked north of

23 miles per hour in-game radar. His dexterity, his agility are uncanny. Just wait until he does the short shuttle at the Combine. Bruce Feldman released his freaks list today on the athletic, which I encourage everyone to check out because that's a lot of those guys. in that freaks list are the guys will be talking about as, you know, quote unquote risers after they test in the combine. They're just freaky guys. But Harrison's over two in that list.

And it's not really a mystery of why. He's got that size speed combination. But the other part of his game that gets you really excited is how skilled he is as a route runner, the tempo, his steps, the ability to leverage coverage with his break quickness. And then the cherry on top is the catch point stuff. Growing up, I was always, I know you'll really like this, Nate, I was always amazed at Chris Carter and the ball skills.

Oh, yeah. He had this remarkable ability, and this is how I kind of describe it, to slow down the ball with his eyes. You know what I'm saying? And I think, like, Larry Fitz- Ball-tracking, but in a different way than I think people assume. Right. I think Larry Fitzgerald had it too. I mean, it's a short list of guys-

Who was a ball boy for Chris Carter growing up. So that's a little connection there. It's a very short list of guys that I would kind of describe them as guys that can slow down the ball to catch point. But I see that with Harrison. He can frame the football, expand his catch radius. The finish is crazy. Even when he's covered, he's open. And that's absolutely the best compliment that you can give to a receiver.

So I'd love to hear your perspective on. I know you agree with a lot of what I'm saying. But I'm also want to hear about what you think he can improve upon, you know, because it's, like I said, it's easy to talk so glowingly about him because of everything he does well. But I also want to get the other side of the coin from your perspective on what do you want to see from him this year that kind of just solidifies himself as, okay, he is worthy of all this hype and praise. Yeah, I'm with you where it's hard not to get out over your skis about how much to hype him up because I'll get to like. Like one thing that maybe stood out to me that's like a room for improvement, but it's like, honestly, it's just, it's a tiny blemish for this game. It's hard. It's hard. He is a very, I'm always going to be a sucker for size at a lot of positions, but especially at receiver because I just, in my thinking is that they are the ones that can get screwed up the least by quarterback and scheme by coaches because it's just throw it to the big dude.

Like, and then, but as you get to better offenses and better quarterbacks, then more skill and technique gets into play. well, Harrison's awesome because he has both. He's six, three, he's long. He stacks guys. Like the long speed surprised me. I thought he would maybe be like the typical long, you know, long developing speed guy that maybe wins at the end because he's more of a four, five, four type guy. Nope, he stacks guys quickly.

He wins at the press, wins against press, which is something I was, you know, wasn't sure about until I studied him. And he's winning time and time again. There's corners that we'll talk about later in this discussion that he's just shredding. He's just making it. They look like amateurs. They look like freshmen playing their first time. And that's like, oh, that guy might get drafted in the first round next year.

He is just his hands you brought up. The ball not moving. I always say snatch the ball, like truly snatch the ball as opposed to catch it. And when it come to you, he actually does that. That's what I always loved about Devante Smith was that ball never moved as soon as it stuck his hands. That ball just stuck. And Harrison does that.

The quickness is unbelievable. The route running, he's already a good route runner with polish. they ask him to do some of the advanced routes. They ask Chris Olbe to do. And Harrison's, what, three inches taller and longer and longer leg? It's pretty remarkable. I would say my one thing, one blemish, and this happens sometimes with longer targets, usually with tight ends, but sometimes with long armed receivers, is throws at his body.

He could be a little bit of an awkward catcher. And that's just because they just don't know how to turn their hands. It's just a little awkward for a longer armed guy. And I've saw maybe two drops that came up in those types of situations. I believe there's one against Michigan where he, it's like kind of like a, I don't know how you describe it. It's almost like a rising crossing route that Ohio State loves to run. And it kind of just pegged off his chest. But it's not where he makes all the other catches that I'm not going like, uh, his hands are if he's hands are good. It's just maybe that's it. But that's really, I'm trying not to

like get like, I mean, he's he's a legit. I'm pretty tough grader on receivers. Like to take one top 10. I think the guy has to be a real true dude. It's like, I'll take this guy top five. I really at this point in time. It's not, he's really, really good guys. I text, we were texting this about this and I actually want to get your answer on this is that I, since I've officially been doing this since 2014, he's my receiver one. And it's, it's, and I wish I could like say this guy or this guy I like better, but he's to me kind of the perfect receiver prospect in my eyes, because he's the type of guy I really like, but it also has the polish, the physical skill set, the technique, the polish, and a little bit more room to grow, like even into his frame.

So he's kind of the perfect receiver prospect for me. That's how we're starting off the shell. Perfect receiver prospect. That's how we're doing this. But that's my main negative with him right now. It's hard to talk about him without sounding acrobolic. It really is. He's listed at 205.

You'd like to see him closer to 210, 212. So maybe. What was AJ Green coming out? I know that's the common comparison with him. But what was he? Like 208-ish, 2-10? I can't remember off top of my head. But I mean, he's in that range too.

Yeah. So, you know, he was 2.11. Okay. So, you know. That's like a good goal for Harris. Yeah, I think so. That's probably the frame you want to get to. When you look, but his play strength is awesome.

You know, like he doesn't, it's not like it's a must requirement for him to, you know, it's just one of those things you'd like to see just to kind of check the box. But there were a few times where pad level, and like you were mentioning with, you know, for taller whiteouts, it could be tougher with, you know, using that length on catches. that are at your body. I think sometimes pad level was an issue for him. But yeah, for the most part, we're nitpicking here. The sales pitch is easy.

He's going to walk into an NFL building and has the ability to immediately be the wide receiver one for that team. Like that's, that are very high expectations, but they're realistic expectations for him. And I'll say it right now. I don't, barring any injuries, I will be absolutely shocked. if the first three players drafted in April,

which is still eight months from here, Caleb, Drake May, Marvin Harrison, in whatever order, it ends up being. Ali will be shocked if those are not the first three receiver or first three players drafted in April. Something will have to have happened for those three not to go top three. And to your point about the best receiver prospect sense, Jamar Chase is the only one of the last, you know, 10 years.

that I think, you know, is, sticks out for me as kind of being in that top tier, you know, category. But Harrison's got the size advantage. You know, he's a little more as advanced as Chase was coming out in terms of his ability to, you know, throttle his routes and just kind of toy with corners and then win at the catch point. I mean, Harrison does all of that too. And so I think Harrison might even get the edge there. So the last 10 years, it's not a stretch to say Harrison's the best receiver prospect coming out. When you're getting mentioned with A.J. Green, Julio Jones, Calvin Johnson, and Jamar Chase, it's like, yeah, this guy might be decent. Yeah.

And then it's not, and again, it's not getting out of, like, it's not crazy. And like, people that have listened to show, no, I'm such a junkie for line play and how I rate premium positions, everything. Your statement about those are the top three guys, like, or those potentially will probably be the top three draft picks. It's like, I'm not blinking an eye at all. I'm like, no, I get it. This guy will change your offense. Like day one. And what you're saying is day one, he's a true ex-receiver, which is already crazy.

But he already has the polish. And also, you can't discount the pedigree with his dad. He's going to be a pro. The fact that we've been talking about him for over 10 minutes and we just now brought up that his dad is a hall of famer, that tells you everything you need to know about this guy as a player that, you know, he's doing this on his own. Like, it's not like we're giving him a. bump because of his last name or the bloodlines or anything.

I mean, obviously that has played a part in his development up to this point. Yeah. But it's not a driving reason for these gushing statements we're making about him and the high grade that NFL teams will end up giving him. And he's like his body type is so much different than his dad. That's what's so funny. It's like he's so much taller and long. It's weird.

It's like, I don't know. I want to see what his mom. Like how tall his mom was and everything. Right. Was she like all American volleyball player? Yeah. Or like a long jumper or something. Yeah.

Right. I know. I've been trying to figure that out. But that's the thing is like his footwork. It's like you do see his dad's footwork with him, but he's taller. Which, oh, that's just crazy. But outside of Harrison, which again, we're basically both, we're saying, yeah, top five player, any way you shake it in this draft class easily and one of the best like receiver prospects in a long time. But outside of Harrison, are there any other receivers? You kind of had an interesting list, I thought, with your receiver primer class and kind of like a lot of guys that could potentially rise. There's a lot of interesting names, but maybe no one's cemented right now. But who would you could possibly see that maybe could rise as maybe a top 20 guy or someone maybe up here in the top half of the first round, if there are any or any of the guys that might be interesting names in the first round. For me, there were only two other guys that I felt comfortable saying, okay, these are first round players at the position. And that's Malik neighbors from LSU and Mika Agbuka from Ohio State. I mean, LSU and Ohio State producing wide receivers. Who would have You know.

It's crazy, right? We've heard this one before. But neighbors, he's explosive. He can be pressed. He's got a fifth gear to win deep. He's another guy who doesn't really have that full body of work yet. So we're betting a little bit on the traits and the flashes that we've seen up to this point. But with, you know, Daniels coming back at quarterback for LSU, you feel like the chemistry is going to build.

And LSU should be a real contender this year. They are absolutely in that playoff conversation. and Neighbors is a big part of that. I think he has the tools, and he really heated up as last year went on. That's, yeah. The SEC championship game, he was big. He was the MVP of the bowl game. So the trajectory, the progression, I think you're, you know, really encouraged by.

And then Egbuka, he's so polished. Once JSN got hurt, he moved into that slot roll a lot of times, and he just feasted on coverage. I mean, he's, a lot of the things we said about JSN, like Buka has that in terms of the technique, the catch and run stuff, better, he's going to have better speed than JSN.

So he's just a really, I feel like you know what you're getting. And does that have value? Like, even though he might not be the elite, the elite in terms of size, speed, some of those physical characteristics, you know exactly what you're getting. And in today's NFL, where everybody is looking for playmakers at receiver who can help move the chains, put points on the board.

Egbuka can absolutely do that. He's another guy that snatches the ball. The catch and run stuff is really impressive. So I think both neighbors and Ibuka, to me, were their first round guys. And those are the only two guys outside of Harrison. So I think if Harrison's on a tier by himself, these two, for me, are on that next tier by themselves. So eager to see what you saw with those guys. I'm completely the same.

I think I have a Buka kind of like that late first round, early second round grade, kind of similar to maybe what I have with JSN where it's like you pick him in the 20s. I'm so comfortable with that. I think how you sum them up is great. He does a lot of things well. And at first when I remember texting you and I was like, I'm kind of lower on him. And then I actually studied them where I'm not watching 20 other Ohio State guys at once. And I'm like actually just watching him.

he you wrote it you wrote it he's subtle like he has subtle positives and he yeah like he just screams a good number two option in the NFL like he is a z that can play the slot but can play also z on the outside i throw a Nate burleson comparison to him to you because that's what I kind of sees like a zone beater he does a lot of things well short and intermediate he can create a little bit after the catch he's got good hands kind of just does a lot of things well even if none of it's overwhelming so he's a guy that on the right team team, you know, again, we're projecting eight months from now on the right team. I really like him. They already have a true number one. They're like, we need to add to our past catchers.

Like, ooh, this guy could really slot in. And he can play the slot too, no pun intended. And then, yeah, I would say with neighbors is that he kind of matched LSU season where they were really a second half team. And by the time I kind of checked out on watching them, I have to like revisit that whole entire offense and watch Daniels and everything. So he's, I thought he was a great guy too to kind of throw. up there. It's one of the later watches for me of this receiver group. He was probably like the seventh guy I watched, but I totally agree with you that I could see the burst, the explosiveness that, like he has traits. It's just that he needs reps. That's what we saw in the second half last year. So definitely wanted to keep an eye on.

I loved your shout out of Keon Coleman, the transfer from Michigan State. Do you want to talk about him real quick? Because I think he might be a riser, maybe when this is all said and done. That's a guy that I think once more people get up. Because he's not a guy that I've heard many people talking about, but once more people get their eyes on him, Keon Coleman from Florida State, he's a guy that will be talked about a lot more.

Last year, watching Michigan State's offense, primarily to see Jaden Reed, who the Packers drafted in top 50, and I think he's going to be a good player. But it was Coleman, who really kept jumping on. Like, oh, who is this guy? Like, he's throwing the Michigan tape, and he's mossing some of these guys with the leaping skills.

He's 6-4-215. the body control is big time. And he's just a hard guy to defend at the catch point. There were a couple plays where it's just, he's not open, but Michigan State said, screw it, our guy's better than your guy,

and we're going to throw it up to him, and he's going to make a play, and he did. And he even suited up for Izzo on the basketball team for the Spartan. Which is actually saying something. Oh, sure. Michigan State. That's it's it.

Exactly. And I mean, it's not like he was a big time player for them, but he got on the court. I mean, it wasn't a gimmick there. So in the offseason, he transferred to Florida State. Another reason to watch that Florida State offense, which is going to be a ton of fun.

But, you know, there are some questions there. I mean, his route running, some of the background work I need to do some more research on. But the traits with this guy are off the charts. And that's why he'll be in my initial top 50. You know, we'll see if he lives up to it this year. But based on the traits that I saw, this is a guy that I'm buying stock in. early. So yeah, he's definitely a guy that could be a riser. He's the one that I could see a leap frog, maybe those first two guys we talked about just for me, because he's the type of guy that I

really like. He's, when I usually talk about X's, the X receivers, this is the type of guy I'm usually really like long, twitchy, can go up in high point, can win jump balls, contested catches. And honestly, it's like music to my ears. You know, it has to work on his route running. And for me, it's like, yeah, yeah, that almost makes me like a better, turns like a battleship, perfect. That's exactly what I like. But no, he, he was a guy. I'm glad you shouted him out because I remember you even said, oh, watch the Florida State guy. And I was like, oh, Johnny Wilson, who's the 6-7 receiver? Who's a good player? Yeah. He's a good solid player. A little lower on him, but it's like, but still, the draftable guy. And then you're like, no, no, the Michigan State

transfer. And I was like, oh, yeah, I remember him, but I didn't know he transferred. So I got watch him. So I really liked him. Outside the receiver class, and I think there are some interesting names that can rise up. But the offensive tackle class is, I think, super intriguing. And I think there's some, there's a guy I think we both love, but there's another, another guy that I'm sure you're going to mention right now that you love maybe just as much as the first guy I'm talking about. But I don't want to spoil anything. Let's dive into the offensive tackles because I think this is a really cool group. And I think you agree. Oh, yeah. This could be one of the main storylines of the 2024 NFL draft is the depth that offensive tackle.

I mentioned I'm mapping out my top 50 right now, and I'm going to have at least seven, maybe eight, maybe nine offensive tackles in there. We'll see where we end up. But there will be a lot. This class has that type of potential. I came into the summer thinking Olu Foshanoo,

the Penn State tackle is going to be my top guy. And he is, but I actually did end up giving almost an identical grade to someone else. But first with Fashadu, I mean, he could have came out last year, I think he would have been the first tackle drafted. A head of Paris Johnson, ahead of Darnell Wright.

I mean, he is, and he's still young. He's 20 years old. He turns 21 in December, I believe. So this is a young, young player who, the body control, the movements that he has, for a guy that's 6, 6, 320 pounds, and that's verified size. Long arms, 34.5 inch arms.

So, I mean, there's a lot to like about the way he moves, the movement skills, he reacts, the reaction quickness, his recover ability. You know, not only is he, you know, pushing guys wide of the pocket, but he can react to different types of moves. So it's not like, you know, with a lot of tackles, past rushers can get them off balance when, you know, you keep them guessing. Fashino, he's so smart that he is ready for anything. And that's so impressive for a guy that is as young as he is. And so excited to see him back out there this year. He got hurt

last year missed the final, what, month and a half or so. But I, yeah, he is a good one. He is an easy player to say one of the best players in this class. I know, you know, you really like him as well. Love him. If we threw out a fourth name that we would say lock for the top four, he'd be the fourth name because, I mean, he's up there. If like Marvin Harrison wasn't in this class, I'd be like, this is the best non-quarterback

in this class like that. But the other guy we're about to talk about, I could out on the second guy, by the way, but we'll get to him a sec. But I'm glad he brought up that he has a little bit more polish and awareness that you would think for a guy that hasn't played a ton of football as far as at the college level. His eyes were good already. I was pleasantly surprised.

I thought that when I turned on the tape with Fashanu, I thought it was going to be just a big raw athlete and big and long guy. He was good in the run game. He has good eyes in the run game. He's always going to the right spot. Games and twists and blitzes like the Ohio State. is the one that stands out to me where they're dropping guys off and his eyes are turning inside right away. He has a great understanding, which like very, was a pleasant surprise on top of what

I think are just really very good to great traits. Length, lower body strength, foot quickness and in a big, big frame. I, yeah, I think he's fantastic. Probably even the two years, the class from two years ago, which had three interesting tackles at the top. And Ikeye, I combined two names there. Iguer Guadu, Charles Cross, and Evan Neal. I liked him better than those things. All top ten picks. I like him better than those three.

Just the overall polish that he has. So really, really good player. I think whoever gets him is going to be very happy as long as, you know, of course, hopefully he stays healthy and everything. It's kind of like the Harrison, because not only is he gifted, but he's skilled, too. know, it's, it's, it's not just, you know, you're betting on the traits or you're, he has. Like maybe Johnson a little bit, you're betting on some traits. Like, it was like, okay, there's some inconsistencies with his hands and everything. And especially getting used to tackle. And it's like, Fashandu, it's like, hey, he's already good. There's not much projecting here with what else he has. But yeah, the other guy we have to talk about and-

have to throw him out here. This is your guy. I'm glad you touted him because I watch them. I was like, I get it. This is like my Christian Gonzalez from last year who I planted my flag on very early. I'm planting my flag with Amarius Mims from Georgia. Like I said, I thought Fashano would be my easy OT one. And he was, but it wasn't as easy because like I said, I gave an almost identical grade to Mims. I did not expect that. And this guy does not have a body of work. He's got two starts to his name.

But watch that Ohio State tape. And I know you did. And you came away with some of the same reactions that I did. And tell me that's not a guy that looks like a first-round pick. I mean, he's got all the tools. Legit six. Lottery pick. Yeah, 330 pounds, long arms, explosive hands, big-time movement skills.

The way he explodes out of his stance, he can stay balanced on his feet. It's just rare for a guy that size. So, you know, all the tools are there. It's, again, small sample size. But I, like, I'm going to do my top 50 as if the draft were tomorrow. And if the draft were tomorrow, I, you know, bet you a team is drafting a Marius Mims in the top 10 picks based off of that Ohio State table alone. He plays a premium position and he just has a lot of things you can't teach.

He's what? I mean, he's all of 6'7 and long, long arms and he moves like he's 6.2. Like he is, it doesn't. 80 pounds later. Yeah. Yeah. He's 6.7 and 300 and legit 330-ish. I think it was. I don't know what you had to listen at, but I'm just guessing. But it's not sloppy. It's not. No, it's not. It doesn't need to shed any of that weight.

Nope. No, it's not Zion Williamson 3.30. It's a, it's, it's put together. It's like, you know, it's like, uh, Tyron Smith where he was like 3.20 something. And you're like, it looks like he's two seven. Right. It's, yeah, I'm glad. When I watched him, I was like, okay, maybe this guy's going to be a trades guy. Long, like, excellent hand usage already.

Like, just a good athlete. I thought his get off on every snap showed that he had confidence and just like, he used that athletic. There's some guys that test better and then you watch them. You're like, you can tell they're thinking on every snap. This guy gets dropped into the very deep end against Ohio State. And he acted like he's been played like had 30 starts under his belt. He shut him out.

Yeah, he was remarkable. Yeah, shut him out. I know. He had good eyes, everything. He got fooled once and then they tried it again, didn't get fooled again. That same thing. I talked about with Fashanu against Ohio State. Yeah, I watched him.

I was like, I totally see a top 10 pick here. He finishes on plays. There's the screenplay where he's down the field. and he gives like a glancing blow to a DB just on his way to the end zone. Like he's a total package. I really like these two guys. And there's a third guy I like as well. I'm sure you'll get to him.

But these two to me, between Mims and Fashanu, it was like, these are top 10 guys. This is what these guys look like. It's not squinting and going like, there's traits there, but we got to polish it up.

It's like these guys tomorrow, like you said. It's like teams are going to love it. Teams are going to love their traits. But yeah, there's other guys that we got to touch on. Your tackle class, who would maybe be your tackle.

three right now or maybe any other first round picks like once right now that you feel really good about that'll go high latham jc latham from alabama that'll be my next guy he's another one like mims that's just that big broad thick body six six three 35 probably closer to three 40 three 45 thickness power but he's not a slug you know he can move no and when he uses that reach and times his punch it's over he'll anchor he'll lock you down but he's still inconsistent in that area a of youthful mistakes from false starts to struggling to recover because technique is all over the place. So the discipline, the on-field discipline, the fundamentals, they need to improve. And it'll be interesting with him moving from the right side to the left side this year. I thought this guy

looks maybe like maybe a more natural right tackle. So we'll see how he responds to moving the left side this year. But what you love about the SEC is Latham, I mean, he's going to be tested week and week out with the rushers in that conference. So we'll find out pretty quickly if he's He's legit on the left side. But based off of his traits, his ability, I mean, I look like a top 15 pick to me. Same. I got a lottery pick great on him. I'm the same way.

Lottery pick to me is top 20. So yeah, same thing. Yeah, same exact thing. Or top 18, I guess now with 14 teams in the playoffs, kind of ruins that my old saying. But really, I liked him more than I thought I would. I thought even just his body type, I was like, okay, he's a little thicker. This is a guy that would be a guard that got bumped out to tackle because in college as I watched him.

It's like, no, he's got good feet, good technique. He's just, he's like so thick. And I just couldn't get over that. And I mean that in a good way. Fires off the ball. I really, I thought the same thing. Some of this technique can be inconsistent. Like even in my notes here, I thought he overset at times.

But it was good to see. It was like a good and bad thing. It's like, that's fixable. The overset, Ikea Kuanu had the same issue. But it's, but it's one of those things where it's also kind of cool because then you see him adjust, you know, recover. It's like self-inflicted, like recovering. So it's like, okay.

he's one good trait and one bad trait right there, but at least the one thing is coachable. And I thought you could get a little too tall of his stance in a run game. But he's athletic enough that it's like, okay, we can fix that. And yes, I thought these three, I thought Latham was like an easy number three where it's like, man, this guy and other classes would be the first guy. It was just that he, I think two other freaks in this class that he has to be. Would he have been the first tackle last year for you? Yeah, I like him a little bit better than Wright and Johnson. Yeah.

Those were my top two. Johnson for me was like I was projecting a little bit. I was like, yeah, you know, like some of his past sets were just, he needs technique work, but it's like more traits and tenacity and mindset that I really was betting on. I'd put this way. I'd put this him to say, I'd give Latham the same grade as Darnow Wright, which is, yeah, a lottery pick grade. Like, you know, maybe not top 10, but in the teens, which is kind of fitting where

Wright went more or less. Yeah, you went nine, but that works. It works for this discussion. The fourth guy on my list to much of the chagrin of Notre Dame fans, Joe Walt, who, look, Joe Walt's a good player. It's just, I think, I just did not see the top five, top 10 slam dunk draft pick like a lot of people are making him out to be. And he's very consistent in pass pro. He's a good athlete, not a great athlete. He can run rushers wide.

He can control guys with his length. There's some stiffness there, though, especially in his lower body where, you know, he'll get hunched at the waist. I want to see, the biggest thing for me is I want to see more ammo in his hands when he is able to get his hands on guys. So he's going to be tested from the get-go, Ohio State's on the schedule early again for Notre Dame. So we'll see how he does in that match-up. But I do think Joel is a first-round player. I just think that he's not the, could he end up going top five or top ten? Like, you know, like a McClintchy did?

you know, like it's possible. Like I'm not saying he's, no way he's give you a top 10 pick, but I'm just saying he's not that that lock, slam dunk, easy top 10 guy like some people talk about him. Right. Like the top three guys we just talked about,

like that's like even for me, like I was comparing in the last year's class with Latham, is that like those guys got overdrafted. There's the inflation. Usually offense, a tackle, quarterback, edge, these positions. There's a little, that's premium premium. episode, there's a little inflation from the grade and where they're drafted at.

And I'm right there with you. I kind of disappointing watch when I watched all a little bit. But like you said, there is enough to like the length is good. His eyes were pretty good. I thought like he had a little bit of that polish. I thought sometimes he just was slow out of his stance. Sometimes he was narrow stepping, you know, stepping too narrow, which was surprised me because of his background, you know, being a former tight end and everything.

I thought those kind of traits would be very natural to him getting out of the stance and kind of, you know, those are the things that you do anyways at tight end. So I was kind of just, yeah, a little slow to stance, a little lethargic in his past, past sets. Sometimes when he finishes, he gets out over his skis, like as far as his head goes over and, like, he could stumble out, which is kind of a red alert for me. But having said all that, still pretty good. Yeah, still good in the run game.

It's still solid. Like, you still, like, I'm with you. I have kind of more of that late first, maybe early second type grade, you know, basically for me, I've said this before is like, you know, easy top five, top 10, lottery. And then after top, it's 20 to 40, you're splitting hairs more or less. I always say late first or early second. So that's where I have him at this point in time. Not to say he can't get stronger or improve more or anything like that. But I had, I mean, maybe a couple months ago and you're fighting a little straw man here. People were having him as a top five guy. I don't see

that at this point in time. But he can't get better. And he's still a good player. Well, and I was with you. I had the same reaction late first, early second. But to your point, he'll get that bump. So, I mean, when I do my top 50, he'll probably. end up somewhere the top 25 just because of that position that he plays. And the fact that, yeah, he can get better. You love the bloodlines with him. His dad was a pro bowl tackle with the chiefs blocked for Joe Montana in the early 90s there in Kansas City. That's fun.

So, I mean, there's a lot to like about him. It's just, this is a, but this is to the original point of this tackle class being so good. Yeah, like Houston's Patrick Paul, he was fifth on my list. He's another guy who could easily end up. I was curious about him. Yeah, he could go into first round. He's a good athlete. He's competitive.

He's still raw in a lot of technical areas. And he's not a guy that can go out and play tomorrow in the NFL. He might not be ready a year from now. But I still think the tools are going to get him in that top 40 discussion very well into that first round. I like Arizona's Jordan Morgan a lot. I liked him a lot more than I thought I would. Yeah, he really grew up on me about what you finished. Sorry, but yeah, I'm glad you mentioned him right now.

No, he's a guy that I think could have cut, he had an injury late last year, but could have came out and, you know, would have been probably a top 50, top 60 pick. But with another year, he could end up in that first round. So there are a couple more tackles that, you know, are in that mix. But it's a very tackle rich group this year. And, you know, you know the NFL just loves to hear that. Absolutely. And you didn't even mention like Graham Barton from Duke who probably might kick into guard, but he's playing tackle for Duke. and he's an interesting player.

I have a late first or early second grade on him. He might end up being a guard prospect for me as well. I watched the North Carolina tape that kind of disappointed me a little bit. But we'll see how he grows this year. I mean, he does some things too. I'm glad he brought up Jordan Morgan. I didn't think I'd like him that much. I think he has average lower body strength, but his movement ability.

He has a little bit more pop to him than I thought he would for his body type. Yeah, he's a guy that I even my notes that needs reps, but interesting size anthilathe as a combo. Some teams are going to love them. Like that's, that's a type of guy. And he's, what, six,

seventh on our list? Like, that's some of these guys, those types of guys sometimes get bumped up as top two or three guy depending on the class. That's why this class is awesome. He's a late bloomer. Like,

as a freshman in high school, he was a quarterback and he was like five, 10, 180 pounds. Like, this guy just started getting bigger and bigger and bigger and by the time he's a senior, it's like, okay, yeah,

I'm a legit offensive line recruit. and goes to Arizona and again, he started almost immediately. I think they planned a red shirt him, but then injuries forced him on the field. I believe his first start ever was against Kavon, Thibodeau and Oregon. So it's like kind of his welcome to big time college football moment. But he just got better and better and better as a sophomore, as a junior. And this will be his fifth season now coming up. And I expect him to continue that trajectory.

three and, you know, to get better. So, and he's a guy that when you talk to the coaches there, they say things like leader. You know, he's a role model. He's a guy that. Former quarterback. Yeah, right. There you go. I mean, they gush about him as a person and the intangibles.

And obviously, that's something that matters when it comes to draft time. Especially a guy that you are hoping keeps getting better. You know, he still has room to grow. So hopefully you want to be a hard worker with that. So after we just gush about a tackle class, but maybe get some more, we'll stick with the offense, maybe kind of the best of the rest, the other positions. Any interior linemen, a tight end or a running back that maybe you see in the first round, I know there's one tight end that it's getting a lot of pub right now.

But any, well, so maybe we'll start with tight ends and this guy and then maybe the rest of them. But then any other of the other positions, quote unquote, on the office side of the ball, any kind of guys that stand out amongst the rest of their group. Yeah, we've got to talk about Brock Bowers, right? I mean, he is, we're going to have the, we had this tight end conversation two years ago with Kyle Pitts and, you know, how early is too early. We're going to have it again with Brock Bowers. The last 40 years, there have been seven tight ends drafted in the top 10. None of those seven.

Some of them turned out to be quality pros. I mean, Vernon Davis and TJ Hawkinson, you know, but I don't think any of the seven have really lived up to being a true top 10 pick. Now, obviously, we'll find out with Pits. You know, what does it look like this year? Does he live up to the massive potential that we saw in Florida? But with Bowers, you know, I think there will be teams that look at a tight end and say, we're just not going to draft one in the top 10, just based off a precedent. And, you know, there's a track record there of top 10 tight end's not working out.

But I don't know. When you think of modern day NFL. Yeah, like this guy is like he's, for offenses, you're looking for mismatches. This guy's a mismatch. And, you know, I think, you know, just look at last year. Talking to scouts throughout the process last year, most of them had Michael Mayer as the top tight end because he could do everything. He was the more traditional tight end.

But it was not surprising at all to see Dalton Kincaid as the first tight end drafted because of the potential that he has as a mismatch weapon. And even think who went to the tight end that went second. LePore. Right. Yeah. Good point. Bowers, he's that type of difference maker, right?

where it's just he's going to run really well. He can line them up everywhere. He's not, I mean, he can play in line, but, you know, you're not going to use him there for the majority of his snaps. You want him in a slot. You want him on the move. His defenses have to game plan for him, because he can be that difference maker. So he's basically a wide receiver with speed, body control,

catch point skills. He's just in a more tight end-like body. So where do you draft a guy like this? There's a good chance he does end up. up in the top 10, even though some teams will just refuse to go that route. So it'll be really interesting to see how it all just plays out for him. I think too, like maybe a guy like Pitts was that, oh, can he play in line? Should we work with him on that? Or do we just keep my receiver? It seems like the Falcons are going like, okay, you're on the backside. You're an F. Or really,

you're an X. They're kind of treating him like a receiver now. I mean, or yeah, like it's everything. Bowers to me is like a true adjuster. Like he's the F-tide-end, but he's also the slot receiver. And maybe you can get him in the back field as kind of like a mismatch when you want to just do funky looks. His blocking surprised me, like in a good way. Like he has some fight to him. He has some pop and some strength.

He's not the longest guy. He's not going to be the biggest guy. You're not going to have him stay in line. But it's not like he's a net negative. He's fine. He can do enough. Actually reminded me a little bit blocking-wise of Noah Gray, who's with the chiefs right now,

who came from Duke and more it's like he's an undersized feisty blocker that can get it pounds-ish yeah yep he can get it done as a blocker and you can just do enough but you're not drafting them in the top 10 to block but it's just nice that you can check that box because he is a mismatch I mean he's in the SEC he's in the right away day one as a freshman a weapon like he is beating up on the SEC outrunning guys at 238 240 pounds he's beating guys up in the college football playoff he's a true true mismatch like you said so I at first, yeah, the whole tight end discussion, you don't take these guys in the top 10. He is not like the other guys that maybe you're hoping to grow into a Y tight end.

He's just a weapon. And I hate using that term, oh, he's the offensive weapon, but he really is because I think he just has the juice, the athleticism, the explosion, just all that stuff that you want and your past catchers. And teams kind of need nowadays at any of the spots for their past catchers. So kind of like, you know, it kind of remind me like maybe when Kellynne Winslow the second was coming out. Yeah. And like, you know, like where it's like, you know, because he was, what, 240 and kind of like, you know, good athlete, but you know, you're not going to have him in line. But he was maybe a guy that was came 20 years before. Like if Kellynne Winslow the second came out now, I'm not going to talk about after his career or anything like that.

But like when he was playing, like maybe a guy that was born 20 years too soon, Bowers kind of has that now. So I guy that, God, he's awesome. TV scouting or just like scouting, scouting. It's just he's a really fun player. No running backs probably. I mean, I guess we got to talk about it real quick. I don't, did you think any of these guys were like top 50 like locks for you? Like, did you like any of them?

Lox? Um, I like, well, I know, it's hard for me not to give, uh, Breelin Allen a top 50 grade. Uh, but like, but that's, uh, yeah, I don't know. I have, uh, or someplace in Madison, Wisconsin. No, but these, that's, this running back class is a lot of guys I like, but none of those, like real dudes. It's a lot of late second, early third round. types. I think you kind of feel the same way.

The guy I actually liked the most was the runnerback from Arkansas. Sanders. I'm blanking on his name right now. Sanders. Sorry. Just kind of remind me Latavius Murray a little bit. Just gigantic and a little stiff, but like gigantic straight line guy can catch. I liked him.

He actually probably, after I just blanked on his name, actually probably my runnerback wanted this class just because of the size. I just like a little bit of his traits. Some people are saying that like it doesn't have a funny nickname. like he rocket rocket yeah rocket he's i'm not giving him rocket i i he i saw him get hockham rocket yeah yeah i don't know about rocket uh he he got hawked down a couple times i was like uh i'm not giving you the rocket maybe maybe a mortar launch uh than a rocket but he's got some juice to him he's more of a tank than a rocket probably he's a tank yeah exactly yeah uh what was

no i agree with this running back class is more like i there's not a single one of these guys that I think is, okay, put it in pen, he's going to be a top 50 pick, like, you know, like a Fijon or even at Jemir Gibbs. Like those guys were easy top 50 guys. Really, both of them were easy top 20 guys. Like Charbonnet was better than Zach Charbonnet. I like better than all these guys. That's the, when I look at Blake Corum from Michigan,

Zach Charbonnet is the name that comes to mind because I think in that range where he's, maybe he sneaks in that top 50, but more likely in that 50 to 75 range. but you know his like blake quorum who the top senior could be the first running back drafted his teammate donovan edwards you could argue he's built better for the NFL modern game right with his ability to make guys miss and catch the ball of the backfield and um you know it's just Michigan could very easily have the first two running backs drafted um so it'll be interesting how that plays out they'll feature them yeah quite a bit they're gonna get plenty of touches they will there's no question about that um i i like trade benson a lot of florida state with the way he

break tackles. Will Shipley from Clemson is a really good back. So these are players that might not go as in the first round or even the early part of the second round. But the second half of day two, there's going to be running back heavy. Kind of similar to, you know, we talked about this past running back class with, you know, Kendry Miller and Charbonnet and all these guys that went in that back half of day two type of range. So it's another pretty good running back class.

class. We definitely had to mention those guys. Absolutely. Yeah, it doesn't have the top end, but there's a lot of useful players, the term. Yeah, just a lot of guys that for sure can be the one B or the two, the two types in a rotation or maybe a guy that's a 60-40 guy. So, yeah, some interesting, interesting guys there. Now, talk, we want to kick on over to defense, you know, the people of defense wins championship. So we got, we got to talk about it. Any defensive players overall, I'll just say overall that maybe you view as a blue chipper. We could start with the edges maybe, but maybe we go defensive line back. But any guys that you, we just mentioned a bunch of offensive guys.

I think you said top six guys are probably offense on your big board. Who are maybe the top defensive guys that can sneak into his top 10 at this point in time or lottery pick type of guys that you look at. Yeah, I don't think that there's any defensive players that you look at and say, oh, well, that's an easy top 10 pick. You know, like we've talked about with Harrison. I'm so glad you said that, by the way, real quick. I just want to cut you off because it's like, When I watched the Edge class, I was like, I'm just, I'm waiting for one of these guys to really get me going. Really get me juiced up. They're good.

They're just not great. They're not, you know, and we'll see how they come out this year. I do like Jared Versil off from Florida State. I think he would have been a top 20 pick if he came out last year. Could he end up in the top 10 this year? Yeah, it's certainly possible when you factor in the position that he plays. And the fact that 10 guys have to go in the top 10, he could end up there. So he is the odds on favor to be the first senior.

in my mind. And yeah, let's just have that edge discussion now. First, I like a lot as the top guy because of explosiveness, how active he is with his hands. He does a great job. Strong hand. Yeah, deconstructing blocks because of those two factors. Throw on the Syracuse tape and watch him against Matthew Bergeron, who, you know, you and I

both liked, you know, he was a top 40 pick for a reason. But first got him more than a few times. It was probably Bergeron's worst tape that I watched last year. And it's just the way that Verse would attack him. So Verst who transferred from Albany, one of the best Transfer Portal editions we saw last year, if he continues to build on that, stays healthy, I could easily see him getting that top 10. I really like Dallas Turner as well. I think about how much criticism we heard about Will Anderson and his weight.

Turner, he's even slighter than Anderson is. He's more 245-ish. But man, is he explosive? And his ability to get up to full speed with that second step is awesome. And it makes it really tough on blockers to contain him. So Dallas Turner, I think, is in that mix as being a maybe in other drafts. He's not a top 10 pick. But in this draft, I think, you know, we talked about the guys we think could go in the top five.

Okay, well, guys, you know, between 5 and 15, guys need to fit in there. And we're going to see some pass rushers in there. Dallas Turner with that athleticism could definitely fit in there. Is he on a Will Anderson level? No, I don't think he is, but he's still an explosive dude. So I would throw J.T. Tuie Mulahoe from Ohio State in that same tier as, you know, kind of with just behind Dallas Turner.

Yeah. Just behind him. He's not the same tier as the Bosa's or Chase Young, other Ohio State pass rushers. Totally different type of player. Yeah, he's a plug-up play starter, right? Because he has a rush plan. He's got a full arsenal. He has power.

He's got Twitch. He might not be as special in some of those areas, but he understands what to do. He's one guy that- He's like an old-school strong side defensive end. Yeah. You know how they used to be the differentiator in a four or three. He's like the strong side D-N. That's how he looks like to me anyways.

Right. But he's not a bad athlete either. You know, he's the guy that could have, the coaches say he could have easily played college basketball if you wanted to, which I think says what kind of athlete that he is. The one guy that I did want to mention too, who I think, if there's a guy in this class,

this edge class who could become a true lottery pick, like, okay, this guy's going early. Chalk Robinson from Penn State, I think could be that guy because he is so twitched up. He is shot out of a cannon at the snap. I mean, there's just things about his game that if he continues to get better against the run and just adds a little more variety to what he's doing,

man, this guy has some things that just can't coach, and I can see that going pretty early. That's when I watch Chop Robinson for Penn State, I think right now he's one, two, three, I think I'm fifth, six, give or take on my edge list, but I said he has the best traits and tools of this group. It's just that it's just, he has different ones than the rest of this class.

It's a lot of, a lot of these strong, run first, complimentary rusher types is how I'm going to go about it. Like even Brail and Trice from Washington's another one I'll throw in there. Like all, did I say Tice? Braylin Trice. He's a big one less cousin. Yeah, from Washington too. But all these guys have that strong hands, maybe not the twitchiest or bendy types.

Right. But more of a Bull Rush first type. Use that hands. Shed guys, good in the run game and can push the pocket and win, you know, win, win over time as past rushers, not those instant winners, if that makes sense. The guys that bend under and plays over in a second and a half. And I'm pretty optimistic on Turner. Like I have him probably oververse, but I'm probably having them tiered, like as far as

the same group of those two because I just, you know, Turner has a little bit more that twitchiness, that disruptiveness, has some Nolan Smith a little bit in there. Well, you know, kind of just that little twitchiness, straight-lineness. But it kind of creates chaos. I like these guys. I like guys that are good on games and twists, and Alabama has him do it all the time. He was in a stand-up role and dropping the coverage.

I kind of like in modern defenses. I like how Turner will look. I agree with the reverse. I was up and down with him. Then I reverse engineered it, or I watched the late season games, and turns out he was battling an injury, it seemed like. Then I watched earlier season in the games,

and I really came around on him. But it's just strong, just a really strong player. And just can stack and shed guys left and right. teams are going to love him. But yeah, and the other guy, and I just like this guy is maybe a second round type, but I like kind of as do it allness, and that's Jack Sawyer from Ohio State would be the other one I throw in there.

Not, I have him kind of below this other, all the other four guys that maybe we mentioned, but I just like his usefulness. And I just want to keep an eye on him. So I thought it was an interesting edge class where there's a lot of interesting players and useful players, but maybe not those aces that we usually see in the top 10 at this point in time. Right. Yeah. So, Sawyer is that guy who.

not super bendy. There's not a ton of deception to what he's doing, but his hands are so strong. He'll create movement at the point of attack. He's always in chase boat. I mean, he will chase down plays from the backside. Not just with that four or five speed, but it's because of the motor.

It just doesn't quit. So, yeah, he's going to be a day two pick most likely, and he'll be, you know, he's not quite the athlete that Sam Hubbard was coming at Ohio State. But a great comparison though But a guy that's just, yeah, he's going to play style. Yeah, he's going to play a long time, you know, and a guy that's going to, to your point, be useful.

Be a guy that's part of your D-N rotation and be someone that's a, yeah, a valuable part of what you're trying to do. It's nice when you watch and you're like, oh, this guy can be versatile or he can be useful and do all these things, but it's not theory. It's like you're actually watching him do it. He drops in the coverage. He's rushing the passer. He's twisting.

He's doing all these things. So I think I'm always kind of a sucker for that. It's where it's like, oh, there's some proof of concept of this. So, okay, moving off the defensive line, moving off the edges, or maybe just moving away from the edges, I should say. Through the spine or through the corner class, I'll start with the corners. Any corners that stand out to you? Any blue chippers? I know today, when we're recording this on the 15th, you just released your corner primer article for the 2024 draft.

I know one guy that I think we agree on is the top guy, but any other corners that you stood out to you as maybe first round picks or guys to keep an eye on. Yeah, this is another position that gets that bump, right? That premium position. If you're, you know, we saw Devin Witherspoon was a guy that coming into last year was not being talked about as a, forget first round, forget top five. He wasn't being talked about as a top 100 lock. You know, he was maybe mid-round. That's how teams were talking about him last summer. He moves himself into the first round, top five overall.

And that's what you love about corners. There will be more, there are more corners drafted. every year, the last three years, than any other position. We've seen at least four corners going the first round each of the last four years. I will be shocked if that streak does not continue this year because I think we've got a group of guys that are going to go early. They're going to get that bump. They're good athletes.

Starting with Kulay McKinstree from Alabama, who, you know, coming out of high school, he was the guy. And he has lived up to it as being the five star, being the top corner in the nation, 6-1, 195. Not a blazer in terms of what you usually expect from a corner, but he is fast enough. He's got those long strides. And his ability to compete the catch point, turn, run, use that length.

He's got ball skills. I mean, he is a smart, savvy corner. And there are times because he has those long legs, I wrote about, you know, my article today about how he struggles on some comeback routes and, you know, routes where some savvy runners can separate from him at the top of the break because it takes him a half beat to settle down, come to balance and react. But he's a guy that is, you know, he can carry deep. He can really contest the catch point.

He can make up some of those inches because of his length and his timing. So there's a lot to like about Kulay McKin Street and what he offers. Yeah, he was very easy watch. Sometimes the corners, you do have to wait a little bit to see him actually doing some stuff. but right away, he's physical in the run game, very just physical with his hands, but it's not where not too much like Joey Porter Jr. last year where he got himself in trouble. Sometimes when he's trying to be, you know, all physical and pressing,

his feet aren't quick enough. I thought he was way more of a fluid mover than I thought maybe with his length. I agree with you. His recoverability is what I like so much. His turn and run, you know, how they teach corner play with Sabin and everything, having the eyes in certain places. And to be able to have the awareness of his eyes. eyes. I believe he was, he started as a freshman. Yeah. Right. Right. That's so notable. Like with

you're starting DB as a freshman for Nick Saven. It's like, okay, I'm going to put a little star next to you because you're going to be someone notable. But it's his ability to say his eyes, his awareness, his ball skills, and then be able to turn and run with guys. Like you said, it's not a blazer, but he's just such a controlled and balanced athlete. He just puts himself in a lot of good positions. I, I really liked him. I thought he was a very clean watch. Um, he was the, um, he was the, guy that really stood out, maybe head and shoulders, maybe some other guys, or maybe a head above some of the other guys. But there's some other interesting names. I know you talked about them, but let's kind of cycle down to your list. Who's kind of your corner two at this point. Yeah, I went with Kaylin King from Penn State, who I think I liked him a little bit more than you

did. He has so much competitive energy. And that was the best way I could come up with, like, what he does best, you know, because he's, he just competes his butt off out there. And I, you know, is he, That dude blows up bubbles. Bubbles and screams, he blows those things up. He is not shy coming downhill. I mean, he will, yeah, he'll beat the blocker to the spot and, you know, arrive at the ball carrier with a little bit of pop. But he has speed where he can hold up in coverage.

And, you know, he'll throw on the Rose Bowl tape and he'll see him working out of the slot, turn, run, cover, find the ball in flight, make the interception. I mean, there are times on tape where he can be inconsistent maybe down the field. but there are other tapes where I've seen him do it. So that's encouraging. He's not the biggest guy. He's probably going to be around 5-11, 190. But, you know, there's a lot to like about his game that I think that translates.

And, you know, you're going to feel good with the Kalin King on your team. It's just, you know, is he a top 15 pick? Is he a top 20 pick? You know, we'll see how that plays out. But I think this is, I struggled with, honestly, I think the top three guys on my list were all in a similar tier with McKinstree, King, and then Nate Wiggins, the Clemson Corner. I've got at number three, who I think is in that top tier. He's good. Very high on Wiggins. He's a guy that got better and better as a season went on last year. You know, you watch him early against like Wake Forest and it was like, this guy is, it's rough.

But then you watch midseason, it's okay, he's getting better. Then you watch the end of the season. Watch him against North Carolina. Watch him, you know, he was getting better and better. And you saw it. Covering Josh Downs in space. Like, that's not easy to do. But he was able to do it because for a guy that's six to, For a guy that's bigger and longer than most corners, he has the composed athleticism of a smaller guy. And so that's, you know, it's something that, you know, not only does he have speed, but that short area of control and the quickness, it's something that really shined on his tape. So those top three guys to me are in that top tier. Yeah, I hadn't watched corners as the last position I watched. Generally always waiting into the draft and everything.

I'm offense first. I'm trying to be better about this, but I watched the top two guys right away, Kulid McKinstreet and Kaelin King. For King, when I watched him, I see just, which is good, I think in a modern defense, is I think he would be good in these kind of Fangio defenses, using him in quarters and cover six, cover two cloud side, where he can use his eyes and his aggressiveness. I think I did him a little negative, or I put him behind the eight ball because the first game I watched it was against Marvin Harrison Jr.

And Tough ask. Whoever Harrison Jr. put him in a blunder for the entire game, short, long, everything. So I was like, man, really? This guy? He's going to be, tout as a first rounder.

Then I watch other games and you see how physical he is. He comes up in the run game. He's got great eyes and everything. So I understand why people like him. But I watched Nate Wiggins this morning. After you put out this article and I was like, screw it, I'm going to watch one quick game. It also got me an excuse to watch Drake May again, which is always fun.

And I'm watching it through. And I get it. His length. His balance, just his ability to, sometimes these long corners and two, and I talked about Joey Porter Jr., then gets so out of whack because they're so tall. And just that kind of fluid athlete is so cool to see. Like the play you had in the article where he's beating the ball on downs, like that body control and that hand eye to time up his hands.

None. The way he closed the space with the receiver and doesn't give it up is it's hard to do against a guy like Josh Falons. It is. And those are usually the kryptonite for a time. whole long corner. It's a crafty undersized route runner. So I really liked him. He's going to probably grow on me the more I watch him. But other guys that you had, though, is it Cooper DeGine, DeJon? From Iowa. From Iowa. Iowa's got another white corner and it's, it's, he's fun to watch, man. It's fascinating because he, you watch Iowa State tape. The school of Seahorn, man. That's what it is.

Right. You watch Iowa State tape and he's playing linebacker. Then you watch a different tape and he's in a nickel. You watch a different tape. He's on the outside playing corner. It's like, okay, this guy just does everything. And so... Congratulations, you're a new England patriot. Right. And there'll be a lot of talk about what position he should play at the next level. And it's not because he can't play outside corner. All right.

Let me just repeat that. It's not that he can't play there. It's that he's so good as a guy that can play near the box or can play against a slot as a nickel or can play. I mean, he just can do so much because his football IQ is high. He's a really good athlete. He's, his toughness is. big time. I've watched over

100 defensive backs this summer so far, and he was the best tackler of the group. Wow. He was really good, and that kind of surprised. That's saying something too, guys, because the other corners we talked about are actually willing tackling.

So, like, here or that is actually pretty, pretty interesting. So, yeah, that's cool. I mean, and that goes into where how Iowa uses him, and it would be interesting to see how they use him this year. But there's, and that versatility is more of a plus than a, you know, a minus where it's like, okay, I don't know what to do with them. He can do all of these things. And so that's why he was number four in this list. And he's

it's versatile and not a tweener. Yeah, right. Big distinction to make with a guy like this. And then my fifth guy just mentioned of Josh Newton from TCU, a guy that can stay in phase and cover guys up and down the field. So, you know, last year with that TCU defense, so much, you know, talk about Tomlinson and how good he was. was Newton's a better player. I mean, he's bigger. That's going to be a big factor with him. And he's just a good of an athlete,

a guy that can make plays of the football. So big fan of Josh Newton. But this is another, like I said, at the top with corners, it's another position that's going to stretch. We're going to see a lot of these guys going the first round, a lot of second round, and so on and so on, because there's the supply is there and the demand is there. So a cornerback will be another strong position this year.

It's cool just seeing the varying skill sets. I mean, these five guys. that we just glanced on. All of them win in wildly different ways, which is really, really cool. And it just speaks to kind of how corner play is right now. It's not everyone just running Seahawks cover three. So it's a whole bunch of six two guys with long arms that can't move. But converted receivers that everybody's like pining over.

So I think this corner class is super interesting. The more I watch these guys. I'm really excited to watch the other guys that you mentioned outside the top three that we mentioned as well. Sorry, real quick. No, you're good. The premium positions that we look for in the draft are quarterback, tackle, edge rusher, and corner. And maybe you throw a wide receiver in there.

My co-host is trying to pump that up even more. But yes, Robert, my other co-hosts. Yes, right. But yes. But yeah, receiver is the fifth one usually. What are we been talking about? In quarterback, we gushed about last week and, you know, talked about the top two guys and then everybody else and how good of a class it could be.

Offensive tackle could be the best position. in the entire draft. Overall. Edge Rush, even though we're missing the top guys, that Ace, as you call them, there's still a lot of guys

that we mentioned as promising players. Corner, we just talked about. And then we started the conversation today with one of the best wide receiver prospects we've ever seen. So it's just these premium position, this is going to be a very strong draft class.

Something that we kind of debated with last year. Is this actually a good draft class? This year, I don't think we'll be saying that because there's notable players at the premium positions, and there's just, there's a lot of these guys. It's a deep class. And that's a lot of fun to talk about now and then even more so as we get closer to draft season. It's really fun when you, like, I even putting together my Google Doc for the big board

or in which you put out a list and others start putting out their lists on like kind of their top five, top 10 for each position, which really cool is there's a lot of guys. I can kind of note, it's like, I'm keeping an eye on this guy because he can ascend. Yeah, I might have a second or third round grade on this. guy, but it's like, I'm not throwing them out. It's like, that's what's really cool. Some of the receivers we mentioned, some of these corners that we haven't even mentioned, but there's other tackles.

There's quarterbacks that like, we, I mean, we were through our quarterback list and I still crack up that you had 25 seniors on your list. And that wasn't just like, oh, I'm naming everybody. It's like, no, these guys are all worth watching in some way, shape, or form. So I think this can be an awesome class. I totally agree with you. There's some, there's some real, real talent here. And I think it's going to end up being a good class.

and it's at positions that we all care about. It's not some, you know, we're spending an hour and a half on a maybe a potential guard tackle from Northwestern. You know, like it's, it's like actual like real, real juice at these positions. And even no anything. Defense of tackle, we didn't really hit on. I was just going to say defense attack or linebackers or is anyone that you want to talk about there. There are a lot of years where it's hard to get excited about the defense tackles. But I'm telling you, this is a class that I'm kind of excited about because there are guys that I've studied that maybe not

top 20 guys, but I think we'll see a lot of these defense tackles, maybe a handful, go in that 20 to 60 range. Jerson Newton from Illinois, you're kind of your prototypical three technique in a lot of ways. He's a gap shooter. The quickness is awesome, but still surprisingly strong versus a run. McKinley Jackson from Texas A&M, an explosive nose tackle. I don't see him being talked about that much, but this is a guy I saw as maybe a borderline first round guy.

and all the feedback I've gotten from NFL scouts similar to what I'm saying. So this is a guy that people need to pay attention to. He's a good athlete for his size. Explosive, yeah, exactly. Yeah, I watched him as well. Yeah, he's a good player. Georgia, they've had a nice run of defensive tackles taken in the first round the last few years. Nazir Stackhouse, he's kind of that next guy, not quite on the level of Jordan Davis or Jalen Carter.

Yeah, but he's a good player. Watch the Ohio State tape. It's really impressive. They got two tackles, too. They're interesting as well. They are. Exactly. Michael Hall could be in for,

he's a guy that I like. I just, I'm with you on that. I want to see more, and maybe we'll get that this year. I actually like Williams a little better. The other time of 91. Yeah,

I actually liked him just a tad better when I was watching those two. So I know, but it's, and then we never even mentioned Mason Smith from LSU. I know a lot of people are high on. Almost all last year with that injury. So come and working as well. way back from that. He's a freak. Leonard Taylor from Miami was my top underclassman at

defensive tackle. He's a guy that flashed a ton. Former five star. The abilities there, it's just can he be more consistent on a down-to-down basis? Yeah, Chris Jenkins from Michigan's and other ones. This defensive tackle class, again, there's not a Jalen Carter top 10 guy, but the depth in the early rounds, I think this has a lot to offer. So yeah, defense to tackle is going to be a strong group linebacker I liked maybe didn't love but I liked Barrett Carter from Clemson my top guy you know he's really athletic he's undersized and so you know I did that clip you used in the video I I saved it and tweeted it

because I was like this is hilarious yeah he's just leapfrogging the running back yeah I guess Louisville run back's going to go into block Carter and he hurdles them and then chases down the quarterback so quarterback doesn't miss a stride yeah right exactly like just a normal thing to do you know on a football field uh it wasn't like he was playing you know like you know some small school some extra it's like no the conference game against louville yep just doing that uh and i i believe that was like fourth quarter one of the last like fourth quarter one of the last plays of the game like

he he was revving in the fourth quarter ready to go trying to close he can run there's one thing i can i can tell he you're running. Yeah. Well, and that's, but he's smaller. And so, okay, where, where is the NFL going to value this guy? You know, we've seen in the past maybe some of these guys fall a little bit, because they don't fit maybe some of the size requirements and things like that. And so Carter will be interesting to see exactly.

And I think it would be different from scheme to scheme. Smile Mondin from Georgia, he's another guy that I like quite a bit. He's, he's bigger, but he also has movement skills. he's a guy that keep on the radar, Junior Colster from Michigan. Ike and Burke from Ohio State, top senior this year. There's a lot to like about this linebacker class as well.

It's a pretty decent group. Awesome. And you safeties? Last position? Yeah. I don't want to spoil your article so far because you haven't released it yet. Right.

That comes out later this week. A primer for the primer. There you go. It's fresh in my mind because I just finished it actually today. I tell you what, Miami. they might be back. They might have the best safety tandem in college football this year. Oh, boy.

You know, Cameron Titchens and James Williams. You know, you think back, I looked it up, 98 to 2008. So like a 10-year stretch, the heyday of those Miami teams, they had nine defensive backs drafted in the first round alone. Since 2008. So we're talking about like maybe 15 years. They've had one defensive back drafted in the top 50 picks. Artie Burns.

Exactly. Artie Burns, who didn't last very long. I still float around, though. Still plucked a paycheck. But Cameron Kitchens, this guy can play. If you want that safety with the center field skills, the ball hawking skills, this is a guy that has that, the range. He had six picks last year.

Very interested to see what he, you know, what does he do for an encore this year? Can, you know, it's hard to duplicate big intercept. and numbers like that. And so can Kinchins do that? Can he, is if he does, he's going in the first round. Because he has some of the traits that you look for. And if he has the on-ball production. I liked him.

So we haven't talked to any of these guys. So I'm glad to hear you praising him because he was a lot of fun to watch. Yeah. What other safety did you like, or did you watch that you, uh, that you watch. I watched Malachi Moore a little bit from Bama. Just kind of a, yeah, versatile. And like, it's like they're rotating them in and out the games. I'm just, which is not a lot of fun if you're scouting these guys and you're

watching every play. I can't where the hell's 13 at. Yeah, so I watched the Miami guys. I watched Buller from Georgia and then I watched Bishop from Utah. Those are, those are Cole Bishop. I'm not at the point where I'm stacking these guys, so I couldn't even tell me my first one, but I will say that Kitchens was the guy that I kind of liked the most. And I liked more a little bit from BAM.

I want to see him how he plays this year because, again, he's another versatile type of defender that we, you know, is more needed these days in the NFL defenses. One guy that I, to add to that list would be Kaelan Bullock from USC who, I reminded me a lot of Trayvon Mourig when he's coming out of TCU. You know, kind of that guy that has range, has some ball skills. Like you think about, you know, using him more of that, that split safety, you know, a guy that can just cover a lot of ground. I mean, I think Bullock is that guy. He can, you know, lined up on the opposite hash, make plays. you know, on the opposite numbers.

Like he has that type of ability. So he's another guy to keep on the, you know, this guy could be something list. He had to do a lot of play-saving plays with that USC defense too. Yeah. What a, what a, the safety term was literal for how he had to play. Not a lot of reasons to watch that USC defense, but he's, he's one of them. And listen, if USC is going to be a real contender for the playoffs and national title,

I mean, obviously they have the offense, but they need a guy like, Bullock to really step up on defense and we'll see if you can do that this year. No good chances to do it. Yeah. Doesn't have to worry about playing in the Big Ten yet though. So it doesn't have to fit those rods. No, this, Dane, this was awesome. We just covered a lot of guys.

I think we did. We got fullbacks? Any fullbacks? Well, I want to talk to you about this long snapper I've been looking at. Yeah, who's kicker one? Yeah, we'll save the listeners. We'll wait for that talk about. We're like leading up to the draft and we're just,

scraping for content. We'll maybe have a specialist episode. But, yeah, there we go. But Dane, thank you so much for joining me. This was so much fun. You can find Dane on Twitter. His articles are coming out on the athletic weekly. Or you have a couple of weeks, basically, at this point.

Who else do you have just safety coming out? And then the top 50 will be next week. Oh, and it's like Christmas. That's kind of like a signal. It's like a signal that the season's starting. As soon as I see Big Board's getting dropped out there, I'm like, oh boy, here we go. And they're not the, they don't get the disclaimer or the way too early big board. It just says big board 1.0. It's like there we're going to. I spend way too much time

on this because it's something that I'm going to, you know, when we're in March talking about it, it'd be like, well, and he started in August. This is where he started. And so like I definitely put a lot of thought and I, you know, care into how this top 50 plays out. You absolutely do. And all and also your, your beast with all 500 and something guys that you throw in there too. So there's a lot of care, a lot of detail. It's going to be an awesome. Awesome season. A lot of fun names to keep an eye on all the positions. So hope you guys enjoyed this. We're going to be next week.

We'll be coming back on Wednesday again. We'll be focusing now on more rookies and second year players that for, I think we're starting with the AFC. But we're going to do AFC and then we're going to do NFC. So be on the lookout for that next week. Thank you all for joining us and see you guys next time. This was the Athletic Football Show's prospects to pros podcast.