The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Prospects to Pros: Notre Dame-OSU takeaways, Pac-12 QBs lighting it up, fun Week 5 matchups, and more

Episode Date: September 27, 2023

Nate Tice and Dane Brugler look back at Week 4 and ahead to Week 5 in college football on this episode of Prospects to Pros. They break down the performances of draft prospects in last weekend's Notre Dame-Ohio State game, talk about all the fun Pac-12 quarterbacks are having, look ahead to some big opportunities for specific players in Week 5, and more.Follow Nate on Twitter: @Nate_TiceFollow Dane on Twitter: @dpbruglerSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTubeThis episode is sponsored by Miller Coors: Get Coors Light delivered straight to your door with Drizly or Instacart by going to coorslight.com/COOLIGANSThis episode is sponsored by Sleep Number®: Now, save $400 on the New Sleep Number® c4 smart bed. Plus, special financing for a limited time. Only at Sleep Number® stores or sleepnumber.com. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show's Prospects to Prospects to Pros. Hello and welcome to Prospects to Pros, sponsored by Vesco QQQ, the official ETF of the NCAA. My name is Nate Tice. I am your host today. And as always, joining me, the Beast himself, Mr. Dane Bruegler, how are you doing? Now that we are almost to October, we're starting to your season. I know you're NFL and football fan and college football fan overall, but your season is just creeping ever so closer. So how you doing today, date? I'm good. I'm good. Yeah, this is, it's crazy.

September's almost over. And this is one of the best times on the calendar because it's, you know, we have fresh tape. You know, we can react to these guys. We're learning about these guys. But no, it's good. I'm a little sore. We, on Sunday morning, we had the, my son's U-10 soccer, the parents first the team game. My first ever soccer game, I was, I was baseball football growing up. I never played soccer. But, man. A full hour playing against those kids. I am sore. Like, I haven't been in a while.

So I'm feeling it, but we're playing a little hurt this morning. When I was with the Falcons, we played, like, the equipment guys, some of the trainers, and then, like, you know, some of the scouts, we would play football, but it wasn't even touch football. It was as soon as you catch it, you're down. So there's no running after the catch. Are you quarterback? I was a quarterback always. Okay, yeah.

But it's, but the quarterback could get rushed. And so it was scramble drill. every single time. The first time I played that, and, you know, I was just working out, but I was not moving. I was just, I got very bulky and big at that time. And I'm, that next day was one the most sore I've ever been in my entire life. And it was just, I couldn't believe it, that pickup football game. But then we played soccer.

And I think, we found a soccer ball. We set up some cones and we just played like a little four and four. We're terrible. And after that, I like, my obliques were hurting. Oh, yeah. Because I was twisting and hurting. That's it. I can empathize.

I can empathize. Yeah, not only you're going up and down, but you're the twisting of your body and the way it gets, yeah, no, for sure. I got a lot more respect for soccer players. Obviously, you have to be well-conditioned, but, I mean, yeah, you have to be such a good athlete, so it's... Such a good athlete. Yeah, still. Do you ever have, okay, so I have a theory at this. I was not going to, I did not think I'd ever ask you this, but actually this is a great question, I think.

Any football players, do you think that could be good at soccer, just one that comes to mind? I've always said Darren Sprouls would be a world-class soccer player if he was born in like Spain. Like, you know, like, I really think that. But do you have like one that just comes to your mind before we jump into prospects right now? That's a good question. I mean, I think, I'm a guy like like Austin Echler. He's so controlled with his movements, but he's got speed. That's a good one.

He stands out. I mean, I don't know, that's the first name that came to my mind. And he like 5, 9, 510 running backs is kind of where my mind goes. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, they're fast, but they're not, you know, they're compact, not, not too bulky, but not gangly. Like, yeah, that, those running back makes sense. I like that. I like where I like see you get it. Most people are like oh,

LeBron James where they go like, oh, can you imagine if this like, if this tight end, if Travis Kelsey Gronk played soccer, it's like no, their body, no,

their body types don't work. So you get it. You went straight for the five, 10 types because that's exactly it. But yeah, well, growing up in Northeast Ohio, I mean,

trust me, LeBron James playing football, I think through his sophomore year, I still just dream of the day where that could, could have been a reality. We could have seen him as a defense event, tight end type of guy because he was he was the number one football recruit in Ohio as a

sophomore and of course obviously made a smart decision and uh went to basketball rob but I still dream of that of what could have been in that alternate scenario the the the all state as a sophomore in Ohio is uh yeah that that's pretty notable that's a little different than Minnesota high school football when you're a sophomore getting all state yeah even when they had the lockout they did like a flag football league against him and Kevin Durant and he like he took and LeBron took a slant and just took it to the house and it was like oh it was like a bigger taller it was 6-8 O'Dell Beckham it was it was pretty different yeah exactly but getting into last weekend's games and really just the first month of the college football season

kind of wrapping up we had a juicy one on Saturday a couple of a couple fun games but a really really good one in the Midwest speaking of we had Notre Dame and Ohio State and there are this game was just littered with prospects and really in the trenches, especially on both sides of the ball. But any initial thoughts on Notre Dame, Ohio State, where do you want to start off with? Because I know there's kind of these names that are on your big board that are up there, the Notre Dame offensive line and Ohio State defense line, but anywhere they want to start with. I think we got to start. Ohio State did get the win, but I want to start with Joe Alt, Notre Dame left tackle.

I mean, he was fantastic. He did give up a few pressures to him a lot to, to, was able to bully him. few times, but no sacks. He just, he does such a good job of not getting stressed in his movements. He's tall, he's a little top heavy, but he's able to play with leverage. He's able to sit down, stay centered, play under control. So aesthetically, it's, it's a little different, you know, than Olu Foshanu or some of these other tackles. But he's been better in past protection this year than last year, which is exactly what I wanted to see. And look, he didn't give up a sack last year.

So it's not like he was bad in pass protection. He was very good. But in terms of some of his movements, some of the body control things, he's still not the most explosive puncher. But if you're going to play with that type of balance, you don't need to be. So I graded him as a mid first round pick coming into this year with through four games. He's a top 10 pick based off of some of these improvements he's made. in pass protection.

So, and we saw that, I thought, even though, again, Ohio State did get the win, but one of the takeaways from this game, for me, watching the tape was Joe Alt. And again, Ohio State doesn't necessarily have the speed off the edge. So there's still a little bit of a question mark there against high-end speed. If he's going to be facing a Dallas Turner or a Chop Robinson, those types of guys. But he is, every test that he's been given so far, he has ace. so far through four games. And even if there wasn't, you know, Ohio State doesn't have that twitchy, speedy guy, you know,

that they've had in the past, it's like this was actually even a type of matchup I wanted to see with Alt and just, because, you know, he doesn't have that pop in his hands. How does a bull rusher, a guy that wins with strength, like Ohio State has, how does he hold up in that and how is he maintained? And I thought, I agree with you. I thought he, he's answering questions that I had about him. Like you said, he's such a good athlete. It's almost the classic finesse left tackle.

You know, that just wins with balance, wants with nice hand placement, and just ones with being a good athlete. And you can see the former tight end stuff. And I've seen the Brian O'Neill comparison to him. And I think he's kind of a, it's almost like a little better version of that which is saying something.

Yeah. And I'm with you. I was a little down on him. I was lower on him than I thought I would be. We talked about this going into the season. And I'm right there with you where I just, he has done nothing but just his stock is improving. and just how he's, it's all just based off of play.

And I thought this game was a perfect question mark for him to answer. And he answered it just like as well as I could have hoped. And I know people roll their eyes when we talk about bloodlines and things like that. But his dad being an accomplished NFL offensive lineman, like I think that plays into this a little bit because, you know, Joe grew up not necessarily watching his dad. His dad played before Joe was around. but just that understanding of, oh, this is what my dad did, and so this was I'm going to do.

And just, it's very natural for him with the movements, the body control, and he becomes more and more comfortable with every game. So, yeah, Joe Alt, stock way up. And even on the other side, too, right tackle, Blake Fisher. I thought he played a strong game too.

Probably a better run blocker than pass protector right now, but flash power in his hands, he's a smart player. So I thought both of Notre Dame's tackles played well against Ohio State. Shout out to Joe Rudolph, their offensive line coach. I know Rudy pretty well.

He was the tight-in coach when I was at Wisconsin at O.C. at Pitt when I was a GA there. But they show him on the sidelines. I was like, oh, Rudy. It's like perfect fit for him. But yeah, shout out to him as well. He's got to him as well. Even with that said, Ohio State's defense, I thought they did, you know, play well. I was going to ask you, yeah.

Who stood out for you on their defense? Sawyer, my guy. I'm just really liking how he's playing with it. Jack Sawyer, sorry. Defensive end. I look at him as a kind of a useful player, a utility player, a classic three-four-sam type. Nowadays, you call him the Jack. And this is the role that can drop into coverage.

This is the guy that rushed the passer. He can be used in different blitz looks. You just use them everywhere. I don't look him as a true first round type, but I really like him as like, I think we maintain where I had him before. that early second round. And I think he's doing some nice things. I just, I just like the usefulness. I wouldn't say, again, that I'm overwhelmed by his stuff, but it's like, I just, his baseline's so high. And if he can get with the right fit, right team that uses, you know, like a Carolina or any of

those defenses that use those kind of three down nickel fronts, the Titan Mint stuff, I think he'd be a perfect fit for that. So he's a guy I just like. I just really, really like him, especially on the Ohio State defense. Makes a lot of sense. Yeah, he was my number 35 player coming end of the year. And I think that's pretty much exactly where I think of them now. Still in the same range. On the other side, I mean, I mentioned to, to JTT. Let's go with that. I love it. Yes. Johnson Taylor Thomas. There we go. Yeah. 90s reference. But I mean, he had a pretty good game too. Again, he didn't have, he doesn't have that speed where he's just going to stress blockers around the corner. But he does have power and he's a smart player. That sniffing out that screen pass in the,

the final drive for Notre Dame. I mean, that was the game right there. If he doesn't make that little tip, the game's over. So, you know, he played a smart game. He's just, he's not that overwhelming athlete. And so that clouds his draft projection a little bit because you have to understand the type of player you're getting. And, you know, that's not necessarily a top 15 pick.

But he's still a good player. And so it's like, you know, I, I feel like almost because pass rushers go early. and, you know, people have been talking about him as a top 10, top 15 pick. Like, people are going to think he's falling when necessarily, that's just not the case. It's understanding the type of player that he is. He's going to be an NFL pro for a long time, but he's just not that, you know, that pass rusher that's necessarily going to scare NFL offenses. Yeah.

He's a complimentary athlete. Yeah. He's a run-first complimentary pass rusher type. I actually am starting to come around maybe with like a George Carl office comparison. They're tiered kind of similar in my mind. That type of complimentary rusher run first, maybe more to tap into and as a pro. Carl Office is playing well this year. But that type of guy, like a good starters type that maybe doesn't have the high end stuff that we picture.

Oh, first round edge, 12 sacks, right? You can a bend like Gumby. And it's like more like, no, it's just a bruiser, bruiser type. I'm with you on him. But I still like him. It's smart, strong. I mean, yeah, he's, and he's not a. bad athlete by any means. He's just not that twitchy get off. Yeah, right, exactly. So I'll tell you

what, the Ohio State defensive player that really popped for me was Tyleek Williams, a defensive tackle. I thought he was their best defensive player Saturday night after I watched the tape. Handful of pressures, he was terrific against the run. Should have had an interception on that great third down blitz they had where he dropped in the coverage, took away the passing lane, took away the screen. And he played, I think, 86% of the snaps, I wrote down. So he's a guy that played a lot of snaps, but still in the fourth quarter was given a ton of effort. And so, Tileak Williams, you know, Michael Hall, the other defensive tackle, he played well too, but he gets more the attention. Tilek Williams is a really good player. And I thought, uh, when you throw in that

Notre Dame tape, he's one of those guys that you, you know, come away talking about more so than maybe some of these other Ohio state defenders. Well, especially that they have data. that that interior spot that's significant that he's playing so many snaps. The coach was like, no, no, he's got to be out there. We got to keep that guy on there, especially some of that's so young. Did you anyone on the Ohio State's offense stood out for you? I know we are both fans of the tight end, Kate Stover, but did you watch Donovan Jackson at all, their guard? Or any Ohio State players stand out to you on the offense aside?

Egbuka comes through again. I mean, he was, he just so natural finding space in the defense. Outside Marvin Harrison, Jr. Yeah, the usual guys. When that injury happened, I texted one of my scout buddies who was in the press box, and I said, uh-oh, you know, what's the vibe? And he said there was just an audible gasp when Harrison went down and just, I mean, everyone was kind of buzzing about that.

Thankfully, got back on the field. Doesn't, you know, appear to be anything long term, thankfully with Marvin Harrison, Jr. But, I mean, Igbuka, he just, he shows why he is just, he might not be a top 10 pick, but he is going to be a very productive pro for a long time because he can work inside outside. He can find soft spots in zone. He can still has the athleticism to beat you in man.

He's very reliable, dependable pass catcher. I mean, there's just so much to like there. Even if he might not have a true, you know, alpha trait, you know, he's not overwhelming with his size. He's not overwhelming with the speed, but he's good across the board. And, I mean, those types of players. He is Z. He is.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, he can also be O. Y. I mean, he can also, you know, he can, he can do so many different things that, to help different schemes, different offenses. So, yeah, I tell you what, the wide receiver two battles this year are going to be bloody. You know, the first receiver draft after Marvin Harrison, Jr. Keon Coleman was awesome.

That touched he had. It was sick against Clemson and the noon slate of college football games. O'Donzie A for Washington. is awesome. I think he's in that conversation. Malik neighbors from LSU has been going off. So, yeah, the wide receiver two conversation is awesome. And I don't think there's necessarily a consensus. I don't think they're, you know, but now or April.

I think this is depending on the flavor of receiver you want. But it's showed in this game why I think he belongs in there. Kate Stover, who you mentioned, he was seven for 52, a lot of first downs. You know, he's, he can break tackles. He had a couple of nice chips. I thought he did better as a blocker than we saw in the first three games, especially out in space. So, yeah, I agree. Ohio State's offense, Kyle McCord, we saw grow up there in that final drive.

That was a lot of fun to watch if you're an Ohio State fan. Yeah, Stover, well, yeah, just first off with the receivers is that I think as opposed to maybe last year's class where it was kind of like, does anybody want this to be receiver one or receiver two? Does anyone want to go in the first round? You guys are just like that. Not that like, but guys were playing bad, but it was kind of like, who's going to step up?

It feels like just every week guys are stepping up and playing very well, not only just eye tests, statistically as well. It's not us convincing a guy that went for four, four catches for 50 yards. It's like, yeah, this guy's a first rounder. It's like,

no, these guys are going for 150, two touchdowns. It's like, yes, it kind of makes the argument a little easier, but I think that's fun. I like Stover. He's such a wild horse and you could just Patel that he is, man.

But you can tell he's getting more comfortable and not playing. Last year I always just felt like he was stiff because he was robotic because he was thinking. Like, okay, one, two, three, four, five. Okay, break. One, two, three. You could tell. Now you can tell he's getting some reps under him.

But I think his stocks just keeps going up. I really like him just because it's just that athletic traits that he has. Farmer gronk. That's great. Farmer grunk. That's great. I like that. But yeah,

we touched on the how state defensive players and how maybe some of these edge guys are, you know, maybe not the most overwhelming athletes or anything. And we talked a lot about how the offensive players in this draft are great. This is a very top heavy offensive draft and depth at a lot of major positions. But the defense aside, right now, Dane, not a lot of guys kind of fighting their way that are really standing out, at least to me. There's a lot of good players, but I mean, not those exceptional ones. But right now, who do you think is the best defensive player in the draft right now, as we sit here in September or ones that are thrown their hat in the ring at the very least? Yeah, it's kind of crazy.

It feels like in most years we have some. somebody separate themselves from the pack by this time in the calendar. You know, last year, Will Anderson, obviously. Two years ago, I think Aiden Hutchinson, even though he wasn't the first defense player drafted, I think Aidan Hutchinson had kind of separate himself as, hey, I'm that guy. You can go back to Chase Young or the Bosa brothers. And so it's interesting this year, I just, we don't have that guy. And I think, you know, there's plenty of contenders.

Florida State's Jared Verse. He's been really, really good versus the run, but no sacks yet. And the true impact plays have just been too infrequent with him. And, you know, you're waiting for him just to takeover games. It's not like he's falling. I'm not saying that. But he hasn't necessarily separated himself as being like, hey, yeah, I'm a locked top 10 pick. That time.

I mean, he's a very good player. He's going to start in the NFL at this time next year. But so far, it's just been a little bit, you know, okay, not overwhelming. We touched on some of the cornerbacks last week. Kool-Aid McKin Street from Alabama is good, but is he top 10 good? I think Clemsonsonson's Nate Wiggins is really, really underrated. He was great against Florida State, five targets, zero catches allowed, had one pass breakup. He got injured, the last play of regulation.

Sounds like he'll be back soon. Doesn't sound like it was a serious thing. Chop Robinson from Penn State, man, this guy was. He just, Kate McNamara for Iowa, the quarter of. back's going to have just nightmares of this guy. They couldn't block him. And it was fun because they would rush him. And I tweeted the four-place sequence on Twitter with Chopped.

They lined him up over the agat and lined him up for the center. I mean, he looked like, you know, Micah Parsons out there with some of the quickness to win in those small spaces. But then on the edge, that speed that he has. And then that force fumble that he had, that swipe move was crazy. So, Chob Robinson has to be in that conversation as well. And then I think if I have to put an answer right now to, okay, if the draftor tomorrow, the first defensive player drafted, I think I'm going Dallas Turner, Alabama. Yeah, he leads the SEC in sacks. He leads the SEC in pressures.

He's really good versus a run. When they ask him to drop in space, he makes plays. He's not Will Anderson, but you can tell that he learned from him with the way he reads the game, his reaction quickness. And late in that fourth quarter against Ole Miss on Saturday, he basically called game. He was dominant. He took it over. So, you know, when you look at the production, he's the only player in college football with at least four and a half sacks, at least 20 pressures. He's got two force fumbles.

Again, in the run game, he's grading really well. So if the draftor tomorrow, I think Turner probably be my highest graded defensive player. But, you know, it's, I don't think it's a runaway by any means. Right. I think that's that's exactly who I had. I was, I was waiting for you to get to him. I was,

I was like, oh man, I, he's low on Turner right now, but I, I figure, you're a great salesman, Dane,

but no, I, I think, the chop Robinson shout out, you show me the clip, you sent me that clip. That was, yeah,

it's all, it was all glimpses. It's different. It's different. It's different. It's different. Yeah. Exactly.

And that's where you have to get into some of the projection, but you have to still see some flashes and consistent flashes, and he's shown it. So, Yeah, but like he's such a different flavor on all these other guys. So he talked about Verse and we talked about the Ohio State guys like that. Those are those thumper types, um, trice from Washington that are more the complimentary players, good against the run, but okay against the pass. So, but when you're talking Chop Robinson and Dallas Turner, Turner is like, he has the length.

And he, it's not that you're not, when you look at him, you're like, oh, he's not going to be very strong, but he has some pop to his hands. And obviously it has the frame that he can grow even more into. So he has that natural strength, that natural explosion, the length. And so that's the traits that you already want to start off with with the edge guys. And honestly, he has the stats, but there's a bit of like, if you don't know, bet on the Bama player. Like in basketball scouting, I've come around on if you don't know, bet on the Kentucky player. And it's worked out a little bit, like pretty decently under John Calvari. But it's just, I think with Dallas Turner, there's a little bit that.

But he has the production. They use him in a different way. I watch Will Anderson get used right now on Sundays, and he's looking great. But he has his ears pin back. What we want to see, I think Turner will get that same bump, even though he is already showing statistically anti-test. But I'm with you. He would be my guy right now, the only one that I have a true, you know, top 10ish grade on right now for these defense guys. Yeah, it's a really interesting pass rush a class.

You mentioned, or we were talking about the Penn State. And I was watching that Penn State tape. And, you know, it goes play by play. and it gets down to 33 plays, and it stopped. I'm like, why did it crash, or why didn't the rest of the plays load? Iowa offense only ran 33 plays in that game. I've never, Penn State ran 97. Smallest file size ever.

I've never seen such a lopsided play allocation. It's just, it's crazy. I thought for sure something crashed or all the plays didn't load, but no, I would just didn't run many plays. And so the snap counts look a little different on that one. Yeah, that was, I used to hate because I'd have to make cutups, so I was with the Falcons. And whenever I got like a Pack 12 or Big 12 offense alignment, I saw like fifth round grade on a guy, and it's like, I got watched four games. And it's like 120 plays, 110, 102, 110.

And the guy sucks. And I just have to watch and make the cut up. I'm going through all these plays. And it's just like they're running everything at warp speed, no technique. And it's like, it's nice when sometimes you get some of those Big Ten classics. Oh yeah. It's a cut through. It's only like an eight-minute film.

The work you did, you're doing the Lord's work, though, because it is so much better watching the point of attack tape when you're. Yes, you know what I was talking about the POA tape. Yeah. Yeah. It's so much easier when you can watch that tape and you have, you know, all these plays that you know your guy's going to be involved with. Whereas if you're just watching the full game, you know,

you can go 10 plays, 12 plays without your guy doing anything. That's anything useful to you. So it's just, yeah. the the assistance doing all that cut up work of all these college players in each NFL facility those guys are invaluable but it's the 10,000 hours rule like totally like for film like that it was like you you have to watch them and so it's like you get a thousand reps 10,000 reps on just watching these guys and sometimes yeah it's stocked at least a little bit for me I'm hoping it's important work because if you miss a play or if you don't include it in the cutup

Or, I mean, it's, there's a lot of, this game and not this game. Exactly. Right. When I made it, that game wasn't available. Like, this is, why is this play in here? Why is this? Oh, God. That would be the worst.

Right. Like, you have to, you know, kind of show your work and trust your own eyes. He's releasing on a screen. I had to show him in space. Well, he didn't hit anybody. But you got to see, you got to see him open up a little bit, right? Okay. Okay.

All right. Sure. Like, yeah, you just get a hard time. This ball wasn't even complete. Why'd you show up? Well, he had a good takeoff there. But any interior defense alignment that like that maybe at the top of the board or maybe the top half of the draft or is more just a lot of, you see goodish at this point in time? Yeah.

Let me. Johnny Newton, Illinois, I think he's been the top guy, but I don't, I don't know that he's necessarily a top 10 pick, top 15 pick. I think he's more in the back half of round one, which is fine. You know, he's, you know, think Colisia can see. Like, you know, that range where once you get. to pick 16, 17, okay, we could be on Newton watch here, but, you know, he could fall to 25, or I think he's in that range because the size will be an issue. It's something that several scouts have already brought up to me, how he does not have a universal approval rating from

team to team because he's just not a big guy. He's not going to be for everybody, but for the team that is okay with that, can look past the size, man, you're getting a disruptive player with him. He's so quick, another guy that just doesn't come off the field, plays a ton of snaps. So Newton definitely the guy that I would mention there. The rest of these guys, you know, Mason Smith from LSU, you know, Leonard Taylor from Miami. There's a lot of talent there. But I don't think any of these guys have separated themselves as, hey, I'm a lock first round pick. You definitely go in top 25.

Nothing like that, in my opinion. Okay. I was just curious because he's the one, only one that I've kind of see rising to the top a little bit. But I just been kind of like keeping an eye. Maybe someone steps up. There is a lot of good. But yeah, just maybe not that overwhelming guy. Speaking of good, the Pact 12, just overall has been very entertaining going out with a bang.

Ferrell Tor. Yes, it is. And it's like a classic Pact 12 kind of conference, too. Not only good teams, but they're slinging it with some good quarterbacks. I mean, where do you even want to start? Which is, I mean, there's so many guys we can rattle off here and talk with here. So maybe want to go with some maybe guys that we haven't touched on before. So maybe Bo Nicks from Oregon would be a great start.

We've talked about it a little bit before, but maybe not highlighted. Do you want to start with Knicks? Yeah, that's a good call. Because, yeah, we touched on Pennix last week. Yeah. We both see a really good college quarterback and maybe just a good prospect. Obviously, we talked about Caleb and Shadour. Maybe I should list off with these 20 quarterbacks.

Yeah, seriously. But, no, it's great. You just look at the raw stats. The Pack 12 is for the top five passing offenses in the country with Washington, Washington, State, USC, Colorado. And then Oregon, they're in the top 10. and there just a few spots later. So, yeah, I mean, Bo Nix is a good place to start.

I mean, he could have came out last year. I think he would have been a day two pick. He decides to come back. You know, he's been really good this year. You know, he can use his legs. He's got a good arm. I mean, he's accurate. He's controlled.

He's really good between the numbers. He can spread the ball out. So there's a lot of Bo Nicks that you feel like translates to the next level. I don't, right now I think he's got to be the leader to be the first senior quarterback drafted. Not, I don't think it's a runaway by any means, but I think he's been the one guy that I feel maybe most comfortable with. I'm really excited for that Oregon-Washington Showdown.

We've gotten two weeks. It's at Washington. That's going to be a ton of fun because two offenses that we know are going to put up points, you know, which defense can make a bigger stop. That a lot of, you know, those tapes will be weighted, maybe a little bit more for those two quarterbacks. No, that's good to know. I mean, all the really Washington Oregon schools, they have a nice little round

Robin they could have with these poor quarterbacks. No, but I think Nick says really, his feet have calmed down a ton, which has really helped his accuracy, and he just looks confident right now. He's that type of player anyways. That kind of lives off confidence because he's going to be, he's going to have some chaotic moments. Like he's going to try some stuff and you have to live with it. But I think that now I understand the variance a little bit that maybe sometimes before I'd be

like, why'd you do that? And now I'm like, no, push it, screw it. The day to day or the snap to snap has been much better. So I've really liked what I've seen him from Nick so far. I'll tell you actually think he is. Teams in the spring had him at 6017. So 6.1 and 7. Wow.

That's what they had in the summer, 225. Yeah, I knew he was thick. I was picturing more like 6 foot change. So that's interesting. Yeah, 10 inch hand. So check the. that box. Yeah, good size there. Yeah, good size there. Um, yeah, but I, I know we haven't talked enough about him, but I, guy, I, like, I know for sure we haven't talked enough about

as Cam Ward. I watched it in Washington State. Oh, I can't wait to talk about him. You know, he's, he's so interesting because he was a wingtie quarterback in high school, starts out in an incarnate word, FCS level, blows up there, transfers to Washington State last year, and he was up and down. Uh, he's still very much learning the position. But, man, he's been so much better this year and he just looks more consistent he looks more in control uh the completion percentage is up over 10 percentage points which i know is deceiving at times but just whenever you make a jump 10 percentage points yeah you take notice of that like that that's something that uh you can point to the tape and say okay i see why here um he's creating more explosive plays

yeah the biggest thing is he's cutting down on the reckless tendencies that was something that just no matter who you talk to, first thing they were in the league, when we would talk Cam Ward, first thing they would bring up interceptions or just what are you doing type of plays. What are you doing? Yes.

Yeah, he's cut down on those. And he's actually played some decent defenses, Wisconsin, Oregon State. So, you know, I like the elusiveness. He does a nice job creating some of those second chance throws. That's a strength to his game, but he doesn't rely on it this year, where I think he did last year.

He's trusting his reads. more this year and he's ripping it on time. So it's another example of a guy that has more reps under his belt, better, more experience. And you can tell he made it a point this year, this off season to be more repeatable with his base, with his delivery. And that is translated to improved accuracy. So yeah, Cam Ward looks like a much better player than he did last year. Reckless tendencies down, consistency up. And so if he continues on this track, the feedback coming into this year was from Scouts. Oh, he's a late round project.

Coming into this year, that's what it was. But I mean, through September, he's definitely, arrows pointing up for him. I really like him. I, I remembered how I watched him last year because he played Wisconsin. So that's how he comes to my attention. And the Incarnate Ward transfer system going on with those quarterbacks as it kind of piques my interest on some of those guys.

Sure. Wasn't a, was a Zappy? Houston Baptist. Houston Baptist. Yeah, yeah. I'm sorry. Oh, man, the SCS Texas schools.

Right, right. But no, but with Cam Ward, it was, okay, he has the funky delivery, the little sidearm throwing style. Okay, good strong runner. He's a good athlete. And then he just got some zip on the arm. Like, he throws a tight spiral. And I was like, okay.

I didn't really think of him as a true draftable guy, just more of it. Like, I agree with the scouts. It was basically what I'm saying. What I've seen, I just watched two games on him, including Wisconsin, and now the Oregon State game, got. watching them both on all 22. Wow. Just calm in the pocket, no chatter with his feet, what you're just talking about and maybe having an answer right away.

And as opposed to just going like, I'll figure it out. Like it truly is going into, I know I'm throwing here. I'm going to move in the pocket and get there. And whipping that ball out on time, plenty of arm strength, pushes for big plays. And that's why I'm glad he brought the accuracy stuff because it's not like they do some dink and dunk stuff. But he's pushing the ball. He's firing stuff down the field. which is just, it's great.

I really like him. He's, I'm really, like, piqued me up. Like, it really did. It really got me excited. Like, I want to keep watching them throughout this year. Actually, kind of reminds me, I want to throw this comparison out to you. A little bit David Gerard. A little David Gerard there from East Carolina.

Interesting. That's a name I have not heard in a long time. Yeah, I bet. And that was, that's my kind of comparison for him. Good, strong athlete, good arm and just an improving. Yeah, the footwork, the calm foot foot. work really stood out to me. Speaking of, how about the other side of the ball did with Oregon State's

quarterback, the transfer from Clemson? Mr. DJ, I'm just going to call it DJ you. I'm just not even to try here because I have tried and I just can never get his name out right. But who I thought made a great decision to transfer to Oregon State. But any thoughts on him so far, as far as maybe breaking him down or just looking as a prospect? I mean, he looks like it's just much more comfortable.

I don't know what it was at Clemson in that last year. he struggled to be comfortable and confident. And now at this new place, it just feels like he's playing within himself a lot more. You know, he's at that size, you know, you feel good about him as a runner with his mobility. Let's see, what do I have him listed at? 604-2-240.

So he's a big boy. Man. But not a statue. I'm shocked. I'm taller than him. I actually thought he would be even taller in me. I was 604-5. So, he's got me, I got him by a little bit.

But that's that, anyways, just good. No, he's tall. Yes. He's well put together. So, yeah, he's, he's another guy that came in late round grades. But the way he's playing, it's like, okay, there's something here. You know, there's, he's, if you're going to play with this type of confidence, you know, we need to, you know, revisit. And he's a fourth year.

I could, you know, he could always go back for another year. It's going to get even better. I don't, you know, next year's course. quarterback class, you know, who knows what it'll look like, but we know this year's quarterback class looks pretty crowded. So I think we'll have a decision to make after this year. I, yeah, I thought this was a great call by him to go from the Clemson offense, which is very elementary and has been for a while now. And that's, it's a good and bad thing for them. But getting out of that, like you're saying, the confidence and so much so much with these athletes,

especially quarterbacks, is about confidence. But I thought the initial returns that are already paying off with being with an awesome coaching staff at Oregon State and a very real professional offense as far as terminology, those shifting and motioning, the actual reads he has to make. The early dividends have been very, like the early returns, I should say, have already been very promising. But I actually, I'm glad you brought that up that maybe he can return. I want to see him return for another year because I think just another year with this can really just like boom, boom, boom, really to launch him.

And he has that eligibility to do that. I almost treating him like a redshirt freshman right now. Like I'm just trying to wipe out the Clemson days from him, just watch him like that. But yeah, he's been looking a lot better. He's a big, good athlete, the huge arm, and the polish is getting there, which I think is really, really encouraging. You still do see some of the, I mean, the San Diego State. That was a tough game for him. And the five second throwing motion.

Right, exactly. So it's not like we're saying, okay, he's a top 100 pick now. I mean, he still has a ways to go. but he's been a much more promising than what we thought he was at Clemson. He was basically off the board for me after Clemson. Oh yeah, yeah, on drafted. Seventh round undrafted. Okay, maybe take a shot up.

But now it's like that exactly. He's looking more like that fourthish round type. But again, I want to see another year and just have more that he can clean up because he still has more to go. Even anybody else in the Pac-12, we have Cam Rising from Utah. Yeah, we haven't seen him yet because he's coming back from the ACL. Yeah, injury, right? But he's one of those Gardner Minchew, You know, where it's just nothing about him necessarily screams NFL quarterback in terms of just when you, you know, see him out there.

But he wins. He's tough. You know, he last year, I don't know if he was planning on coming out or not, but he gets injured in the Rose Bowl against Penn State. So it's like, okay, I'm coming back. We're, you know, waiting for him to be healthy before we really see him this year. But, I mean, he's he's a guy that has so much, you know, mocks. to him. And that's something that scouts bring up with him. He's just got that it factor. And so he had

draftable grades from a lot of teams this summer. And as long as he's healthy, you know, yeah, he's and so what? Caleb, Bo Nix, Shadur, Pennix, Cam Ward, DJU, Cam Rising. That's seven quarterbacks right there that theoretically

would be drafted in this draft class from just one conference. I mean, it's crazy. We'll see how it all shakes out, how many of guys actually declare who goes back, but it's a pretty impressive group of quarterbacks for sure. Yeah, and even speaking of Caleb. So like that's like you're even saying to there's depth, there's guys at the top, there's guys that are ascending, they're seniors, just every single type. But if you're at the top of the draft, the

2024 draft, there's a couple teams that have some black draft collateral and might be looking at a quarterback at the top of the draft. But you got the Caleb sweepstakes or the Caleb Maeve sweepstakes, whichever one, or the Marvin Harrison Jr.'s sweepstakes or Ola Fashadu sweepstakes. But this draft order right now, as it's kind of starting to shake out, I know we're only three weeks into the NFL season, but what are you kind of envisioning right now as far as maybe this draft order, who's going to go up there and maybe just who's pining for that Caleb sweepstakes? I mean, if we're going to try and forecast, you know, the top five, we got to start with the bears,

right? I mean, not only how bad they look, but also they have the pick, you know, the P. O'N3 Panthers. They have their first round pick. So right now there's four O and three teams. One's the Bears, one's the Panthers. So if you're the Bears, as ugly as this first three weeks have been, if you're forecasting moving forward,

you've got to have at least some optimism that, you know, I think over the summer we talked all about the Cardinals, oh, they could get Caleb and Marvin Harrison, Jr. With their two first rounders, one and two, it's a realistic outcome for Chicago. They could have two top five picks, draft a quarterback and then either Harrison or maybe even Foshano if they want to get that tackle.

So perfect. Yeah. And obviously that changes things pretty quickly for that organization. Yeah. You know, it's it, the, the Justin Fields thing is interesting. It's honestly, kind of reminds me a little bit of the Sam Darnold where clearly Sam Darnold wasn't getting a ton of help. But a lot of it was on him too in New York.

Same thing with Fields in Chicago. Like clearly he's not getting a ton of help. But clearly it. It's a lot of is on him is on him as well. And it'll be hard to quit Justin Fields because the next place he goes, there will still be a lot of believers to say, oh, they'll figure him out. You know, or they'll be. Same thing with Donald.

So it kind of reminds me that situation where, I mean, even right now, if Donald, if Brock Purdy went down and is out for the year and Sam Donald's the quarterback, a lot of people, including myself, and I'm sure even including you would say, oh, yeah, 40-natters, they're making a playoffs. Yeah, they're fine. So, yeah, I mean, it'll be really. really interesting with fields. What's preseason?

I was freaking out during the preseason. I was like, look at this. I still believe. So, and I think fields would be the same thing where no matter how the rest of the season plays out, if the bears do decide to move on, there are still being plenty of believers that say, oh, we'll see where he ends up. We'll see, you know, where the landing spot is. And we'll see how it works out.

Yeah, he, it definitely needs a fresh start. We talk about other positions and everything. And just the, everything just overhanging that franchise. right now. It's just, it's, it's right. My, our producer, Beller and co-hosts are both Bears fans. So it's like, even if I want to ignore it, we're going to talk about it because it's a big part of their lives. But I think, too, is that I also stands for how good Caleb Williams and Drake May, at least in my mind are that it's that a guy that even I was high on Justin Fields. I'm like, yeah, I would take these two over him. Like even if I were like, oh, there's still

talent there and everything. These two are a different tier of quarterback prospect than even Fields was. And I liked Fields a lot. Still still, still, I'm one of those. that it's like I just want to see them out a fresh start. But it's going to be, but these teams at the top, and then also just the fact that there's two top quarterbacks, a top tackle, a top receiver, there's so many great constellation prizes. You know, sometimes when it's a tank first insert name here, like kind of season, it's like, okay, that's the grand prize. Oh, we didn't get it. Now we have the third pick and we still need a quarterback. Oh, God. This year it's like, oh, just getting the top five, getting the top four. Like, we can do this. So I think it's going to be,

very interesting, especially once November, December, start kind of creeping towards. And I 100% believe that if Caleb Williams was in last year's draft, the bears, they don't trade out. They stay at one and they take Caleb Williams. I 100% believe that. And some people think they should have, anyways, they should have stayed at one and drafted a quarterback, whether it was Stroud or Price Young or whoever. And, I mean, I think they made the right move because, you know, you're, I mean, from a PR perspective, okay, you gave Fields the chance, didn't work out. okay, so you're going to have fewer fans off of your back? Because if you drafted a quarterback at one with Fields still there,

it would have been, you know, fans would have revolted or half the fans at least. Now I think more fans are like, okay, it's time to move on from Fields, try something new. But not to mention, okay, you had a chance to add, you added a tackle in the top 10 last year. You have another first round pick next year. That's probably going to be a top 10 pick. That could be a receiver, another offensive lineman, whatever. So you're just more equipped to go with the quarterback, whether that's Caleb or Drake May or, you know, they end up winning a few of these games and they fall out of this, the one-two range.

And, you know, they have the ammo to go up and get one of those guys. So it's really interesting. Looking at these other 0-N-3 teams, Minnesota, I mean, they're 0-N-3, but, I mean, they've lost each of those games by like, what, six points or less. So I don't, I don't think they're making. Yeah, I don't think they're making the playoffs. but, I mean, I don't know, they're too good to finish in the bottom seven of the standings. Yeah. Denver's also 0-in-3.

But, again, ass kicking against Miami notwithstanding. I don't think they finish with a top five pick. So, but then you look at the one and two teams, the Raiders, the Jets, Cardinals, Texans, Cardinals have the Texans pick. So, I mean, you have some of those one-on-two teams that look like, all right, you know. I'm interested to get because we've talked a lot about Caleb and Drake May but I don't know if we've talked about Arizona specifically. If you're the

GM of that team and let's say you have the number two pick, Caleb goes one, May is sitting there at two, are you finding a way out of the Kyler deal? And you're going with Drake May? I think so. I think with this regime and what they're trying to do right now too.

I think they're just trying to go total fresh start with everybody. That's why they even the Isaiah Simmons trade and okay, Buda Baker's not playing. Like, they're just doing all these little things where it's like, they're playing the guys they want to play. And it almost feels more like a college team when a new staff gets there. And it's like, man, this team had 18 old college team for NIL and all the transfers and everything.

They have 18 transfers, guys transfer out. They had 25 guys signed and actually, they only took seven of them. Like, you know, like they just, it's like this hodgepodge kind of team that they're putting together. They're really well coached. I'm very, the initial, again, another initial returns kind of thing. what's going on, Arizona. I'm very optimistic about it. I broke them down on YouTube this week.

But I would absolutely be looking to get out of it. And there's plenty of teams that want a quarterback that would for sure take Kyler off your hands. And so now you can build up more draft capital on top of the stuff you already have, get a fresh quarterback, get another building block. They can be set up nicely no matter kind of how it shakes out the season. Yeah. I think the other interesting one is the Jets. I'm surprised how much pushback I've gotten from Jets fans on Twitter about drafting a quarterback

in the first round. I mean, obviously, hopefully Rogers comes back, but it's such a crapshoot coming back from that injury and to say he's going to... 40-year-old off of the Achilles. Right. And he's going to start 17 games next year? Like, it's just, it's tough. And even if he, let's say he does, great, that's awesome.

You have your quarterback waiting in the wings because Rogers is only going to play, you know, X one more year, two more years at the most. So, I mean, we're sitting pretty nice with a quarterback because if Rogers is playing and he's playing well, you're not going to have a top 10 pick. So while you are picking in the top 10, you get your guy. I don't know. I'm surprised there's been pushback on that. I think it's a, if you have a chance to draft a quarterback that you believe in, I mean, obviously the Zach Wilson experiment is not going well at all. I mean, he just, he doesn't look like he has any confidence out there. The game is moving way too fast for him. It's just hard to see that fixing itself throughout the

course of this year. I just don't see it happening. I think that's how you just laid it out like that timeline too. Wagon Rogers doesn't seem like he wants to go out on this note. He's like I'm trying to play this year and everything. So but that's yeah, setting yourself up for future success, not having to play a guy right away is huge too. And just even if the guy is talented and everything, just getting to sit and just chill out. Like Jordan Love got to sit for whatever three, three years. But how he looks is wildly different than what he looked at Utah State. And it's, how calm he looks. It's so nice when they can just get rep after rep after rep.

Yes, you want the live action reps, but it still pays dividends, I think. Anyways, so I, like you said with that timeline. And also, it was like drafting a tight end this year. It's like, oh, it's a drafted tight end in the second or third round. It's such a loaded class that's like the tight end four or five or six could be a tight end one, two in other classes. So it's, you know, that's not, of course, Brock Bowers comes out this year. But it's one of those kind of things that if I get the quarterback three in a class like this, that could be a quarterback one in other classes.

Maybe, maybe not, but we'll see how it just shakes out and everything. Yeah. Yeah, it's going to be fascinating, especially just how who has the picks and what they need to. It's just, it's going to be very interesting. Who we didn't see the Cardinals. And Kyler, like available on this on the trade block. It's going to be, there's so many sliding doors that might happen this off season. We didn't see the Cardinals beating the Cowboys on Sunday.

So, I mean, who knows? Cardinals might rip off four wins here in the next, you know, six weeks. You just, who knows, it's the NFL. And that does make, look, tanking's not a thing. It's not. In the NFL, tanking is not a thing. Now, once you get to the final game of the year, maybe there's some times when, you know,

there's some stuff that goes on. But in September, October, November, no. There's nothing like that that happens. So it will be interesting when you have these, this type of quarterback class, and especially the two guys at the top, how it all shakes out. Yeah, tank is not thing.

It's tape is your resume for coaches and players. So nobody wants to tank their resume on purpose. Speaking of NFL so far, actually, the first three weeks, there's been plenty of guys standing out, offense, and especially on defense. But we wanted to highlight some rookies so far. Let's first start with the defenders to start. We're also going to talk about a couple of speedsters that just been fantastic so far this year. But defense first. Brian Branch, you're one of you.

your picks for defensive rookie of the year has been looking every like as high and as good as I hoped he could have been as probably as you hoped he could have been he is showing that already making plays tfls pick sixes Brian branch anything you want to add to here and just like what you've seen so far or is it just exactly what you would hope to expect out of him he's just he's so good this is what you saw at Alabama this is what we're seeing uh now in the pros i mean he's i love that he he doesn't his tackle numbers are great they're all solo, every single one. And there's not a, I think there's one mistackle, which was, I think, on the edge. So, like, he, he's a really good run defender. He's really good tackler in space.

He's doing a nice job in coverage. I just, there's so many, so much things that you can do with him. And yeah, he's not a big guy. No, he didn't run a fast 40. He's throwing the tape and tell me why, why you don't like this guy? Because it just, he was such a good college football player. And it's no surprise at all. It shouldn't be a surprise to anybody what he's doing in Detroit. Um, I, him falling as far as he did just didn't make any sense. And we talked about this in Kansas City during when the draft is going on. Just like, what is going on here? Like it's, you know, you're, you're going to overlook some outliers in the first round,

but then let a guy like this fall to the mid second. Like it just didn't make any sense. And so. Yeah. But if you're the lions, I mean, good for you to get him where you did. Oh, and he's already just the impact he's making. You can just feel it. And another kind of feisty defensive back that actually did go high,

Devin Witherspoon is getting his first kind of taste of NFL action. Anything you've seen from Witherspoon, I mean, he's been, Feisty is the best way to put it. The guy's mindset fits perfectly in Seattle, but what have you seen so far with Witherspoon, Dean? No, Dane. I mean, he's so aggressive. I mean, the way you set it up, he's so, the demeanor, the competitiveness that he plays

with. I mean, it's almost a fine line of, okay, reel it back just a little bit. Or you're going to get more attention from officials, with the way you play but no it's just it's the way he plays and he's not a big guy he's 511 and a half 180 pounds like he is not a big guy but he plays big

and that shows up consistently showed up consistently at Illinois and so far it's showing up consistently with him as a pro so it'll be interesting with these first round corners this year because Christian Gonzalez has been awesome you know we talked about how it was weird he fell to the 17th

pick Emmanuel Forbes was taking one pick ahead of him and Ford's has been good. I mean, he's had a few low moments, but he's been good. Corn are so volatile, especially when you talk about rookies. But it'll be interesting to track, especially in Deonté Banks, too, but especially those first three guys with Witherspoon, Gonzalez, and Forbes, just tracking these guys start their rookie years, see how they perform up and down. Now, that'll be, and Witherspoon, the way he played on Sunday was really

impressive. Any defense of front players that stood out to you or the front seven guys outside the DB room that I've stood out to so far this year. How about Tully for the Chargers? He was outstanding over the weekend. Tui Piloteau. You know, he is a guy that I wasn't as super high on just because, you know, he's a good athlete but not a great athlete. I, like he's not, he doesn't have a great get off.

You know, he's too willing to attack blockers and let them get into his frame. But he wants to fight you, you know? And that magnet for contact was my name. Yeah, he is. Exactly. And so. Usually we say running backs are like that, but he is a magnet for contact. And that worries you going up against NFL blockers, right?

But at the same time, because he has natural power, because he has just this motor that doesn't quit, shock in his hands. And he's got an instinctive nature to the way he plays. You know, that usually ends up winning in the end. and it certainly did against, I mean, what, Minnesota, he was, they couldn't block him at time. So he just looked outstanding on Sunday. But yeah, he's going to be interesting to watch because I, I graded him as more of a early to mid third round pick.

And the Chargers took him, I think, late two. So earlier than I would have taken him. But, you know, the way he's played so far, I certainly looked like the charges were right. Yeah. And they needed so bad. They had no edge depth. They also needed guys. It's weird to say that when,

a team with Khalil Mack and Joey Bosa. Joey Bosa. But nothing after that. Yeah. So they just needed a guy. And the fact that he can just help out against the run too because that has such a weakness. And that's,

we usually it's the spine or their defense that's that weakness, but just having anybody that can just set the edge and do those types of things, helps so much for them. But yeah, he's been a nice complimentary player to them. He was one of the youngest players in the draft too. I mean, he just turned 21 this month.

So, you know, he is a guy that you feel like, okay, yeah, Best football is definitely ahead of this guy. What about on offense? Devin A-Chane or, I don't know, he's going by A-chan now or whatever it is.

Yeah, what happened with that? I don't know. I was like, wait, I thought I had this name down. Yeah, well, it's weird how guys go their entire college career is going by one name, and then they go to the NFL and they decide, no, I'm Mitchell Tribesky now. You know, it's just kind of weird how some guys do that. But, yeah, apparently it's Devon. Chan now.

Yeah, I think Adam Schaefter reported that. That's what he wants to go by now. But I mean, I don't know. Look, I can go back to Kansas City when we're doing the live draft and Miami drafts him and it's just like, well, duh.

I mean, this is, almost every second round mock I did. I had him going in the second round to the Dolphins. And dolphins end up getting him in a third round. And it's just the perfect fit of what an offense wants to be, what a player is, you know, and he was banged up in the preseason.

He was inactive week one. It was like, okay, you know, all those concerns about a size. Like, this isn't good. Okay, by week three already not worried about that. Because that was the thing. He was 188 pounds at the combine. And, you know, I don't, I don't know what he, his frame is he closer to 200 pounds now. Maybe.

I don't know. But all I know is it doesn't really matter if you can't get your hands on him. And he's so quick, so fast. His speed, his vision. and the way that he works the two together, it just is so much fun. I don't think you need me to even say it, because they put up 70 points,

but like Mike McDaniel's really good at what he does. You don't say. Yeah, and A. Chan, he, what I really liked about him, even watching him at my initial exposure, I think we talked about as the King City, was I was watching Isaiah Spiller. And then watching A. Chan go after him.

I'm like, this guy. A little different. That's the track guy. That's the speedster. I'm like, he's a better, he might be a better running. back. Like just as far as vision and tempo and, and it's setting up blocks. It's just that he's a buck 80 and change. I still think he's like 184. Like that's what he looks like. And but you get Mike McDaniel is going to use them in very smart ways. Put him out in space and not just in gimmicky ways, but even in some gimmicky ways. Like he did an end around to him with A Chan lined up as a receiver and just getting on toss plays, just out in space, out in space. We're not going to run them between the tackles, even though he does have good vision. But, um, but he's just getting him toss plays. Just out in space, out in space, we're not going to run him between the tackles, even though he does have good vision. Um, but. Um, But man, it just makes so much sense that he went there.

That team is just so fast and just everybody's out in space. It just feels just so different than everybody else. It's so much fun to watch. And it kind of was the, so far it's been, especially week three, it was like the season for the undersized receiver or the week of the undersized receiver. Other rookies that stepped out, Tank Dell. I can't remember what your grade was on Tank Dell. Did you, was it, he ended up going in the third round, but he was a senior bowl standout as well.

But what did you think about Tankdell when he was coming out? I don't love small receivers. That's kind of that is one of my, I need to stay open mind to small receivers. And I still, I gave him a late third round grade. I was a late third, early fourth. So I had a fourth on him. Yeah, I didn't dislike him. Yeah, necessarily.

But he was a guy that, yeah, you just worried me at that size. But I tell you what, watching him live at the senior bowl, no one could cover him. and yeah so far he's getting open for cj stroud and stroud's been hitting him so yeah that's been fun to watch and also marvin mims uh with the broncos uh another guy who you know what you loved about him was the straight line stuff you know and it could be verticals it could be crossers it could be drag whatever uh whatever you're asking him to run don't ask him to make more than one cut but if you you know he can do it and do it at a high yeah but it'll be interesting how his role develops now within that offense because you have to play him more if you're Denver.

And it'll be interesting just to see how that goes because he's got a lot of juice, tracks the football really well. I mean, he's too good to keep on the sidelines. He makes your offense better. So how his role evolves throughout the year will be really interesting to watch. Yeah, Sean Payton and how Russ is, Russell is just such a good deep ball thrower and always has been. So now you're getting a guy that's like, it's kind of his muse. he's great with these type of guys the locket types uh locket has a little bit more a way more polish

and technique than mims does right now but that same kind of deep ball attacker yeah he's been he's been really fun and again he's everything a cool 28 yards of catch uh always it's great that's old school kelly campbell numbers uh remember kelly cam but just go get vertical and go and launch that ball deep uh but also just not even rookies uh undersized speedsters like two two at well is healthy and a rams are using perfectly. Calvin Austin for the Steelers. A lot of the guys that, it's very hard for me to get you out of the fourth round.

If you're under 180, it's very, very hard. You have to be very, like you're outrunning, better be pristine. But seeing all these speedsers just really have kind of a role so far in the league has been really fun. It's always fun when there's more speed.

Yeah. And it's obviously speed kills, but we've seen plenty of speed guys not be able to cut it. And so it's always interesting as you, okay, we know he's fast. How does it apply at football context? And a guy like Marvin Mims, he was the only receiver in college football last year

with at least 45 catches to average 20 yards or better per catch. And so this is what he did in college at Oklahoma. And so far it's what he's doing. It was such an interesting pick for the Broncos because they didn't have that first round pick. They didn't have those early picks. And they decided all the needs on that team, you didn't necessarily point to receiver as being one of them.

And they drafted Marvin Mims. And it was like, okay, this is interesting. thing. Like what, you know, you bypass an offensive lineman, you bypass, you know, to draft this receiver. And, you know, with Tim Patrick going down and, you know, Jerry Judy's been banged up. And so how Marvin Mims, I just really interested to see how that whole thing plays out. Only I look this up because this is just, it's not like we're just being sizes or anything. It's very, there's historical precedence for this. There, I looked up this year. So there's only, so sub 170 pound quarterbacks, 1069 pounds or less. there's only been three receivers ever to have multiple 800 or more yard receiving years. Three ever to have 800 yards or more twice. Is Devonte Smith part of that?

He's 170. So he's 171. So he actually broke, even if I won 170, he wouldn't be out there. But it's Anthony Carter, Stacey Bailey and James Jet. Okay. That's it. Those are the three. So that's why it's like, even if these guys are talented, they have speed, they do nice

things. They are getting used very well. It's just that you're betting on outliers here. Even if... Tankdale was 165 pounds at the combine. So yeah, like that's, he falls. He falls like 158. Right. Exactly. So, yeah, it is tough because yeah, it's...

You want to respect the speed, respect the talent, but it's just, it's hard to bet on their health just because this NFL is big and fast. And not just that, but play strength. And, you know, being able to get off press, being able to to win some of those contested windows. And so, yeah, it is something that you have to,

and this is why teams have different thresholds for different positions and different schemes. And you pay attention to that, but it's also important to be open-minded to, okay, you know, what does you look like on the field and how does the contact? You know, this upcoming weekend, we've got Devonte Smith going against Emmanuel Forbes.

Two of the thinnest outliers we've seen, you know, especially when talking about first-round picks, both were top 20 picks. and Emmanuel Forbes was he was 165 pounds as a senior in high school he was 166 pounds at the combine

you know he's just a guy that's what he is and he's over six he was 6 1 so it's not like he's 5-9 and like you know like right tank Dell is 5 8 and a half

and 165 pounds whereas a guy like manual Forbes is almost 61 and 166 pounds so that's really interesting and then yeah with Devante Smith obviously a slender

as he is, that hasn't been a problem for him so far. He just, still the highest graded hands I've ever given somebody, Stomte Smith, just, I love him so much. I've said this is that, because I usually defer to size and speed, but it's like, if I really like an undersized guy, it's kind of like, like listen a little bit. I should listen to myself. It's like, oh, like even like a guy like Jordan Addison who I should be usually throwing out. It's like, I just like this tape so much.

I just, I just liked him so much. Yeah, he's looking perfect to Z right now in that Vikings' offense. He was 173 pounds at the compound. I mean, that was an eye opener. Like, oh, okay. Whoa, yeah. I knew he was a big, but not that small. That was a surprising one still.

Right. So, yeah, you already mentioned, you know, Devante Smith. They made it a Forbes matchup for the NFL, but we got prospect matchups maybe for week five of college football. Who are you keeping an eye on this weekend, Dane? And who maybe should, if the viewer, the listener is checking these this weekend of Slade out. Who should they keep an eye on?

Who should they spotlight? Well, I'm interested in see Duke. Notre Dame's going to Duke and college game day will be there. That'll be fun. But Riley Leonard, Graham Barton, see how that offense holds up against Notre Dame's defense. Grant Barton's so interesting. He's, I don't know that he's going to end up in the first round because he's, I think he's a guard. First and foremost.

That's expensive now. But at the same time, his tape's been really good this year. I mean, I think he's just a, he's a plug and play NFL starter. He's just a rock solid player. But I want to see him against Notre Dame. And then Riley Leonard, too. You know, he's still in the mix, you know, as we kind of, it's hard when you talk about these guys. You know, we overreact, underreact, whatever after each game.

But to see Riley Leonard go up against a Notre Dame defense, that is a pretty good unit. You know, they held Ohio State to 17 points. and, you know, it's interested to see how they, how Notre Dame bounces back. Jalen Daniels, quarterback Kansas, going up against Texas. That'll be a good one. I'm eager to see that one. Texas has a pretty good defense. Defense of front is really good.

Jalen Ford, the linebacker, is outstanding, especially in coverage. So definitely interested to see how that one plays out. LSU and Ole Miss, Malik Nevers is going up against Deontai Prince. That's fun. Malik Neighbors is a first-round pick type of player. Deonti Prince is a, a top 125, top 150 prospect. So that'll be fun.

And then, of course, we got Colorado and USC. You know, see how obviously the quarterbacks with Caleb and Chedure, but plenty of other guys in that one, too. So, yeah, it's this weekend's matchups aren't as juicy on paper as last week, but college football never disappoints. It always come, you know, there's always some, some barn burners and some close games and plenty to talk about next week. I've been very much enjoying getting my Saturdays to watch college football. again and making sure that I told my wife this year it's like hey I'm going to be watching Saturdays as freeze they used to be right it's been great it's been great though like I even just I was watching uh north carolina pit and I'm watching Drake May and throwing lefty casually left handed yeah yeah I'm glad

he tweeted it because oh man he was but he made a couple throws that game I was all excited about but just even watching that game and just the chaos chaotic nature of the first half I was like oh college football is awesome it's like I love this is just block ponds field goals miss kicks guys dropping balls They're wide open guys, tip balls, they're on lefty. It's the best. It would be, with North Carolina, it'll be interesting to see how long they can take this. Because they're not a great team. But with Drake May, you could be as, you know, you can keep winning football games.

They're four and up because of Drake May. So even though, yeah, the stats don't look outstanding. He's still a five to four touchdown interception ratio. And he's averaging under 300 yards passing a game. They are the kings of getting inside the five. And then they just hand the ball off. Like, if he were playing it. Like Michael Hitch used to pad those stats perfectly.

He used to be the best. Or Peyton in Denver. They were just on receiver screen. So he'd get the passing touchdowns. It's like Drake May's the opposite. They get inside the five. Hand it off, hand it off, hand it off. No touchdowns for you.

It'll be interesting with just to see how, because the ACC feels like it's, you know, pretty competitive this year. I mean, even though Clemson lost, they're what, two and two. They're still, you know, a good team. Florida State is looking awesome. So, yeah, it'll be fun to see how they,

the rest of the year how that plays out. Absolutely. Well, I think that we'll do it for prospects to pros this week. Thank you guys so much for joining us. Thank you, again, to Dane. So much great information. That's what's great about this college football season, kind of chugging along and stuff gets highlighted.

But thank you all for joining us. We have so much great stuff here on the Athletic Football Show. Make sure you subscribe to our YouTube channel as well. We've got plenty of videos up there as well. Join us for our live streams, Sunday night, Thursday night. I think that's it. Enough words for today. Thank you guys for joining us.

I'll see you all next time. See you guys next Wednesday. This was the Athletic Football Show's prospects to pros podcast.