The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Prospects to Pros: Oregon-Washington, USC-Notre Dame highlight prospect watching in Week 7

Episode Date: October 11, 2023

Oregon-Washington and USC-Notre Dame aren't just two of the best games on the schedule this weekend...they're also two of the best games if you're watching college football with an eye on the 2024 NFL Draft. Nate Tice and Dane Brugler dive into those games, and also discuss the value of in-person scouting, on this episode of The Athletic Football Show's Prospects to Pros.Follow Nate on Twitter: @Nate_TiceFollow Dane on Twitter: @dpbruglerSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTube Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show's Prospects to Prospects to Pros. Hello and welcome to Prospects to Pros presented by Invesco QQ, the official ETF of the NCAA. I always want to see NC2A, but I will refrain from doing that. I am your host, Nate Tice. Today, going to be talking about a couple of real fun matchups this weekend, if not more, because why I say if not more is I know my co-host will have a plethora of information to share on these prospects and plenty of stuff that you want to take away from that co-host is as always my man dame brugler how you doing today dane i'm good i'm good it's my daughter's seventh birthday so we got a lot of stuff uh planned with that um and you know i

last week we talked about um you know introducing our kids to our favorite movies and that kind of thing um yeah i got a lot of cool messages this week of oh you know we introduced our son to this or you know and And so, you know, it was, that was really cool to get all those messages, you know, little giants, sandlot, mighty ducks, rookie of the year. Got a little big league reference, which is awesome because I love that movie for like a year when I was nine years old. But yeah, that was my childhood. But what about you? Is there like a definite number one at the top of your list, you know, one sports movie or movie in general that you just can't wait to introduce to your little guy? It's got to be San Lot, I think.

Baseball was my first love. San Lot was one of movies I fell in love with when I was young. It's still entertaining to this day. I think of sports movies that. And maybe when he gets a little older, Waterboy might be one. And basketball may be a little older than that. So some of those late 90s sports comedies, I'm trying to really think, you know, the happy Gilmore, of course. So I like, yeah, even Major League.

I was going to say, Major League, like the TNT version maybe. You're a Cleveland guy. Six, seven years old around there. That would work. That's how I got introduced to it was a lot of TBS showings of Major League. Right around. It was always around a World Series when they were showing it and stuff like that. So they're like, okay, we've got to show the PG-13 version of Major League.

Love, love that movie. Oh, yeah. No, no doubt. No, I mean, happy Gilmore. That might be, it's got to be in the running for best PG-13 comedy of all time. I mean, it's got to be. up there. So it's it still holds up too. It does. How old is it? It's almost 30 years old, it's 25 years old.

And it still holds up. It's still a classic. Yeah, 95. I think 94, 95, 96. And we're around that. 96, I think. Yeah. Even Waterboy holds up. My, uh, the big show, Paul White, aka Captain Insano. He's in A.W right now. And they released a T-shirt that's it, a Captain Insano T-shirt that I will wear around the house. I'll wear one day on the show. I think I've worn it once.

So I'll make sure to throw that one in there. But that was during Adam Sandler's like hot, hot rod. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you got to hear all those. And that was perfect. That was 12 years old. That was like that was made for me at that time. You know, like that right in that range.

So yeah, I'm with you. That's also too what you can tell Adam Sandler is a huge sports fan. And obviously he plays out of basketball all the time. But you can tell you like legit. No. It's like Bill Burr's the same way. But like Adam Sandler, you can tell legit love sports because all of his sports movies. have some of the technicalities correct.

Like Waterboy has some like real quote unquote football things like correct. Like how they like send guys in motion. I've always noticed that. Versity Blues is the same way. Like varsity blues like low key has a lot of the technicalities of football correct. Like the running back is doing like counter footwork and stuff like that. And I've always just really appreciate those little things. And there's so many times.

The oop de upto-oop offense of course. Right, right. And there's so many times where, you know, it's, you're watching a sports movie. And it's like, it's first down, then all of a sudden it's fourth down. It's like the continuity is off. And you can tell it's not a sports guy or the editing was in the, oh, the audience won't notice. Oh, yeah, we notice.

Like, they need a sports consultant. So that, that's a big pet peeve for me when watching sports movies. Yeah. So, yeah, talk about we go to, I'm trying to work on my Robert transitions here. But so talk about seeing stuff in person. But, Dane, that was pretty good. I'm actually pretty proud of that one. So, Dane.

this weekend, you went and checked out a now Big Ten matchup, which will always be strange to me, but a pretty, pretty interesting Big Ten matchup for most of the game. And that was the Maryland Terps against Ohio State Buckeyes. This is a great opportunity to do a little probably just fun going to a great college football game, but also just in-person scouting. And of course, Ohio State has a couple notable guys. And, you know, Maryland maybe does too. So going to, like, going to scout a game in person, like, what are the things that you kind of

look for? What are the things are your, you know, tips, your tricks or anything that you just kind of learn maybe just doing it over the years? What benefits do you get out seeing some of these guys in person? And just like overall thoughts about in person scouting day. And I'm really eager to get your take on this as well. But yeah, I was in Columbus on Saturday. I used to travel a lot more than I do now. But truth is, I just get so much more done for my office and having access to tape and all that. But it's so beneficial being at the game. Seeing these guys, up close. I've been to games where I learned way more about the players during warmups than I did

the four quarters of the game. So studying the body types, the way they move during drills, the way they interact with their teammates. It's incredibly telling and helpful being able to talk to people on the sidelines, getting that, you know, picking them little tidbits that way. Again, these are all puzzle pieces. And scouting, that's what scouting is, finding all the puzzle pieces to construct a clear picture and live scouting certainly helps that way. So, um, and I can already, you know,

feel some of the listeners rolling their, their eyes at that, but it's absolutely true. It's, I, I have talked to scouts before that they're at the stadium two hours before on the field and they leave at halftime because they got what they needed. And a lot of that was before the kickoff even happened. So, um, this trip specifically, I mean, Ohio State's obviously always a possible destination for me because the roster is loaded. Um, Just geographically, it's easy for me. But there's always pros on that team. And especially this year, because I wanted to see Marvin Harrison up close.

Right. And I mean, even with my sky high expectations, he surpassed him. I mean, this guy is, and I don't think I learned anything new necessarily, but it's just the confirmation of what we see on tape being wowed by a player of that level. It's his body dexterity. It's the controlled fluidity with how. he moves. It's just rare for a guy that's 6-3, 210 pounds. You have all that plus the speed, the tracking skills, the route running. It was all on display in this game. And it was kind of a

strange game because Ohio State was, they struggled bad in that first half. I think they had maybe one-third-down conversion. The run blocking was bad. They couldn't get pressure with four. A mecha-buka, clearly not 100%. So you could, you know, feel in that first quarter that Cal McCord, he was just he was struggling but once we got into the second half he was kind of like all right screw it if Harrison's single covered I'm going to throw it and trust 18 is going to make a play it's pretty much what happened the rest of the second half so yeah Marvin Harrison absolutely lived up to it if not exceeded those expectations that's that's what's fun is it's also just like worth the price of admission or worth the time because some of these

star players are just so cool to watch and again you get that I've always encouraged just in general. I'm not encouraged, but I wish everybody could just watch one NFL kickoff on the field. So you can actually see speed, see how hard these guys hit. It's different. It's different. But same when you see a true, true, not only just NFL-type body, NFL-type player skill set, but also like a star or potential star level.

And Harrison has that high baseline. So we were texting. It was funny. I was watching that game because Marilyn was keeping it close. I was like, okay, I'm going to keep an eye on this. and Harrison had, he had a run down the pipe or a pass catch down the pipe. And then right after it, he had like a wheel route where he,

it was like a little fake bubble and go. And he kind of softens his body to kind of catch this whole shot. And his hand eye is so, like, just so good. He was floating, by the way, on that play. Yeah. And that was right when we started texting each other because I tweeted it and you're like, hey, I'm at the game. And I was like, oh, sweet.

And I was like, hey, look at this. Because you, I think he said something like, Harrison moves different. And I was like, yeah, I know exactly what you mean. Catches this whole shot. And then plants, rather than just going out of bounds, getting like the six, seven yard gain, he plants his foot somehow and juke's off that one foot, like to cut back inside and get like another like seven, eight yards. It was just outstanding at six, three, six four.

And he's playing on a gimp ankle. You know, like he's two weeks ago against Notre Dame, injured that ankle. And, you know, wasn't sure what exactly he was going to look like in this game. but now he is a different type of player, different type of athlete. It's just, it is fun to see that in person up close. Yeah.

And I liked what you're saying too is about the in-person scouting is the, I always think the practice stuff is very real about like how they handle drills. And I think that's such a, it sounds, again, we've talked about this, but it sounds corny, but it is,

the NFL is such a grind. You want guys that are like living this stuff that you want the guys that are just going, hey, I'm banged up. you know, it's week 12. You know, we just lost four straight. And I'm still practicing, still going, watching tape.

You want guys that love football. So, like, that's kind of, like you're saying to some of those little intangible things. Is it, I know, like, draft day kind of made it into a meme. Is it no one coming to the birthday party? Is it the guy scoring? And everyone just kind of goes like, okay, yeah, good for you. It walks away.

Like, there is, like, a real thing. And you can kind of feel it. And sometimes you just don't want to reap too much in between the lines. But when you start, like you said, it's puzzle pieces. They can start piecing together on some of these things. It's always just very interesting what you can kind of take out practices and pregame stuff like you're talking about. Any other Ohio State or Maryland players that stood out to you, especially in person or just in general that I know we've talked about some Ohio State defensive players and the offense guard, but anyone else that maybe stood in person or just any Maryland players. I'm not sure if we've talked about many so far this year.

Yeah, and I don't think they have many high-end guys, but the safeties in this game, I thought we're, yeah. The safeties in this game were really good. Josh Proctor, number 41, who is such an interesting story. He was a highly recruited kid out of Oklahoma in the 2018 class, I believe, because this is a six-year. Ohio State beat out Oklahoma to get him, which doesn't happen often for a guy that grew up, you know, going to Sooners games. But, you know, he goes to Ohio State, and when he sees the field, you could tell, okay, this guy's good, but he couldn't stay healthy. I broke his leg two years ago. Last year just didn't look right as he kind of worked his way back.

This year decides to come back for his sixth season. He's not promised a starting spot, but he competes and he goes out there. And he has been arguably the MVP of this defense through the first four or five games. It's just a matter of can he stay healthy? Because this guy is 6-2-205, really long, huge wingspan. He's a bigger wingspan than Aidan Hutchinson. And the speed is... which, you know, which, you know, normal for a safety.

Yeah. But the speed just pops off. Well, and just watching in person, he was one of the fastest players I saw on the field, both first to run and versus the pass. Had to pick six, which was huge because it got Ohio State on the board when they were just kind of sputtering. Look like, I think that was that after the fake punt that was just did not happen, was not a good play or maybe the next drive. But Maryland, you know, they got the ball, they got the lead.

And it's looking like they might go up. by a couple possessions. And so that pick six was huge. But he had several other splash plays in that game. So the safety is Lathen Ransom. Yeah, the Ohio State safety had an interception in the game. He had a good game as well. Then for Maryland, Beau Braide, the safety, he had a couple big passes defense.

I think he led the team with eight or nine tackles. He was all over the place. Trader, the other safety, he's an underclassman, but another good player. So, yeah, this is a, all four safeties in the game, I think, are NFL guys. So it was good to see those guys up close. Maybe why everything felt like I had a lid on it all day. But I mean, these two schools are just popping out DBs every year. They are.

It's pretty funny. Probably recruit in the same exact areas. There's something about that area of the country and getting DBs. But as you're talking about a guy from Oklahoma, so that's pretty funny to say that. But no, that game was, yeah, very entertaining. there's some, you know, got a little Drake May fireworks as well with this past weekend. That was my in-person scouting for the weekend. I was watching that on TV and seeing all those throws.

I was like, oh, okay, that was an easy one. But next, so coming up, though, we finally, what's really nice now that we got October, we got conference games happening, guys start seeing some teams rising, following, see who's actually ranked, which really helps to kind of narrow your focus on, oh, I should pay attention to this game. And speaking of that, there's a great package. 12 matchup and another Pac-12 another game featuring a Pack-12 team.

But we're going to start with Oregon, Washington. Battle of the Pacific Northwest. This is a border war, great rivalry, great teams. I believe they are ranked eight and seven. So this is going to be a fantastic game. Oregon and Washington, where do you want to start? Do you want to start with Washington's weapons? Do you want to start with the receiver group?

Because they're, that's really, really fun receiver group. So maybe you want to start with the Washington weapons to start? Yeah, and I think it's fascinating that you look at the several key positions on the football field. Both these teams are really good in those areas. So you look at edge rusher, they're both pretty good. Offensive tackle, they're both really good. Wide receiver, both really good. And then, of course, quarterback.

So it's just interesting how that works out. But yeah, let's start with receiver. I think that in just keeping with the Ohio State theme, Top receiver in college football, it's easy. It's Marvin Harrison Jr. The best duo, like which program has the best duo of receivers? That gets a little tougher because then, you know, other, you know, Texas, LSU, a couple of the teams you could mention in there.

I might still give it to Ohio State with Harrison and Nick Buka, but the best trio of receivers. This is where I think Washington, they take it with O'Dunzei, Jalen McMillin, and then Jalen Polk, these guys. these three are awesome. I mean, we've talked about it before, Dunsia especially. He's in that first round mix, trying to compete for wide receiver two, wide receiver three.

He leads to pack 12 in receiving yards. You love the size speed. You know, he's a Las Vegas guy, Bishop Gorman. You know, he's, but I think my favorite stat with him, of all of his catches, 87 and a half have gone for first down or touchdown. That's a ridiculous number. Really? That's awesome.

Yeah, I think you look for probably anything above 70% is pretty good, is above average, and he's almost at 90%. So this guy makes plays downfield, moves the chains, scores touchdowns obviously, and then McMillan, he's been banged up, but it sounds like he'll be back for this game. I think he's worked mostly out of the slot, probably their best route runner,

probably their best Yacht guy. And then Jalen Polk, he gets mentioned third of the group often, but he would be a star, or wide receiver won for a lot of other teams. Yeah. No, he's crafty, doesn't drop the football. So all three of these receivers are impact guys, legit NFL prospects.

And, you know, I think you could, for me, Adunzié is the top guy, but that's not like a consensus thing. That all three of these guys are good enough that it's going to at least make it a conversation. Do you look at all three as at least day two guys at the worst? Or do you look at, you know, polka, poca baby, like that.

I kind of ended up with like a third roundish grade on him. Yeah. Which I kind of was, yeah, which kind of speaks to with these guys. McMillan, I liked a lot more. I know he's been banged up, but just seeing him this year, especially that first game or early, it was a first game. It might have against Boise State. But the Boise State game was. Has a little Christian Kirk to his game.

You know, kind of that slot can go vertical, kind of a smooth athlete, maybe not an overwhelming athlete, smooth route runner type. That's kind of his path I see. But Oduenze is, I love him. I love Oduenzee. A efficient route runner, strength, physicality, can win at the catch point. He does everything well. He's just a well-rounded player. Or good, I should say.

His baseline is just so high. He understands spaces against Sony. He's a smart player. They have him returning punts against Cal. He took one to the house. Yeah, good hands, efficient mover. Good route runner. I really, really liked him.

I was kind of a early second, maybe late first on him to start the year. I firm first round grade for him for me. I think he's a top 20 pick. I really, really like him. I just, I think his baseline's so high. But I was, it was really fun. I watched two games prepping for the show. And I was just like blown away by these receivers because it's just different guys making

play, but I was really blown away by a Dunezay. So that got me excited. We've talked about, we've talked about Pennix before, but before we get into him, Is there anyone else on Washington's offense that you want to talk about as well? Anyone that might be as a pro prospect? Well, we can talk about the tackles, but let's talk about, let's just keep with the passing game and go to Pennix now. But because I'm with you on these receivers because O'Dunzier, I think he was 45 in my preseason top 50, but, I mean, he's impressed me so much, the size of speed.

I mean, I think he'll, when his measurable, he's going to come in, two, 50, between some more between 215 and 220. Like he is well put together and he's going to run really well. And in high school, he ran a 10-6 and 100 meters. He set the school record for in the 200 meters. So, I mean, he is a guy that has speed as well. But yeah, with Pennix, you know, he is a guy that benefits quite a bit from these receivers. You know, we've talked about it before.

I think that, you know, he's a really good player because of, the way he fearlessly attacks the field, uses every inch of the field. You know, he is, there's not a throw out there that he's afraid to make. He leads the FBS in passing yards per game with that, almost right at 400, by a,

by a wide margin. Second and passing touchdowns per game, just over three. But I think he does benefit. Kurt Heisman favorite right now. If it's not Caleb, then I think it's, you know,

it's got to be Michael Pennix. Yeah. I mean, Pennix is at the top, no question. Does he benefit from a strong offensive line? Yeah, he's been, and I actually tweeted this today, but it's amazing the number of times these quarterbacks have been pressured. It's, uh, Bo Nix. He's been pressured the least 15 times this year.

15 times. That's it? That's it. That's it. Uh, Pennix is third, the third fewest with, uh, 33. And then Shadur Sanders is last at 114. It's just a wide, wide disparity between these guys. The number of times they've been pressured this year.

It's just, I mean, 15 is just blows my mind. And part of that is, you know, Bow Nix gets a ball out quick, you know, the offensive line's been great, but I think it just, yeah, there's a lot of context involved with that. But with Pennix, you know, I think keeps coming back to, and Pennix might be able to help himself more than anybody else in this, this game.

Because the, you know, with him, we've talked about before. He's accurate by college standards, but maybe not so much by NFL. because his receivers are often rescuing throws. The placement needs to, they just need to be more precise. And the anticipation, I can pull up clips where you see a little bit of that anticipation,

but then a lot of other clips where he has to wait for the guy to come open before he's letting loose. And so you love some of the deep shots that he takes. Plenty of positive throws, but the consistency level is not quite there. I mean, Twitter tells me he's a top 10 pick. He's not a top 10 pick. I don't think he's going to be a first round pick.

Now, obviously, that could change. We're still, you know, we're not even mid-October yet. Things can change. But what we know right now, plus you factor in age and his durability and the health, the medicals, all that, I just, he's not quite there on that first round level yet. So, and I don't know that he's ever going to get there. But I don't know. What did you see with Pennings?

Are you more with me? You push back a little bit. What do you think with him? No, I'm right there with. you. I still think of him as more of a fourth rounder, like maybe a late third, but right around there. And I remain unchanged. Again, I love, I love the gunslinger. I love pushing the ball all over the yard. I love those types of quarterbacks. But he does have arm strength. Why you'll see him spray balls and why you see him, we've talked about this, his base ends up so wide. Yeah. Yeah, is because he feels late because he is late. So he waits for the guy, like you're saying, he waits for guys to come open and then he guns it in there, which, Again, in college you can get away with. But that is when people talk about college windows and NFL windows. It is so hard, especially someone that has this many reps already to just speed it up.

Because if you had it already, you would do it. And so that's where I struggle with him. But he does have a strong arm. You love the willingness. His eyes typically go to the right spot. It's just that the anticipation just isn't there. And like you said, the medicals and everything. But I'm right there with you.

I may not change like watching them. but as a prospect, it's a way different story. And I just think other guys have kind of just more interesting traits and a little better feel for other some nuances of the position. Right. Well, let's stick with quarterback then. What did you think of, in comparison, what do you think of bone next? Kind of a little bit higher, but like still more like a day two guy, like a third round type. Yes, he's improved.

much since Auburn. It's tremendous. It's that both of these guys really. Pennix coming from Indiana as well. Um, but it's, I, I think he, he's fun. There's a difference between fun and good. And he, he's fun. He can make some plays out of structure. He's gotten better in structure, but you can still see some footwork stuff with him. They're a little chattery. He'll end up like drifting back in the pocket. And that's always a little scary for me. It's gotten a little better as the seasons got along, but I, you know, that's what I want to keep on eye on more than anything. I do once in a while he'll rip some throws. It's like, holy crap, he'll layer some throwings over the middle, which I do love. He'll push the ball. It's just, it's, it can be all

over the place with him. He is what he is a classic, streaky quarterback, like, and kind of a, has some gamer to him. But I look at him as like a high end backup, maybe spot starter type. That's kind of just where I'm at with him. I just can't, you know, really plant my flag with him or really just like really buy in all the way with him. But he does do some nice things and he has improved. So what do? I know we've talked about Nix before, but anything changed for you so far this year with him? Not yet just because it's they haven't played anybody. You know, like it's, like I mentioned that before, he's been pressure only 15 times.

And there's just a basic nature to this offense where I just, he isn't asked to do too much. But I do think he has tools to be an NFL starter. I like his athleticism. I like his second reaction skills. I think when he's in rhythm, he's accurate. I think there's especially over the middle of the field. I think that's where he's really good. I think that there's a lot to like about how he,

I mean, he's taking better care of the ball. And there were questions about with the new offensive coordinator, new play call, or what is that going to look like. But yeah, I mean, Bo Nix, I think has, he came in as the top senior quarterback. Jane Daniels at LSU maybe pushing for that. Yeah.

I think I've been really impressed with Daniels so far this year. But this will be a big game for Nix in terms of, of how scouts view him and ultimately where he ends up with the draft projection because he's going to be on the road. It's not the easiest place to play. Obviously, you know Washington's going to put up points. And so for Oregon, you know you have to put up points. And that urgency to do so, is that going to speed him up?

Is that going to rush him into making mistakes? So very eager to see how both these quarterbacks, how they play in this one. Yeah, Nick's, put it this way for me. Nick's, I was not really sold on going to the year. I was like, oh, yeah, he's gotten better. He has done nothing but help his stock for me personally, but I still, like you are, I'm not like, I can't commit yet because I wanted to see it consistent and because you still see some bad flashes come up.

But I do think he has done some nice things this year. Who has really stood out, obviously box score, box score wise is his top receiver. Troy Franklin. Yeah. I, like, I think he's done some really nice things so far. just a, he is right up my alley. Long, twitchy field stretcher. Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. Right in line with him. But what do you think of Franklin so far? I'm not, I don't think we've had discussion on him yet. I'm not even sure where your grade is on Franklin. Yeah, no, I like him a lot. He's, uh, I mean, probably more day two, but I mean, he's a guy that can push for,

I mean, almost like, you know, the Christian Watson mold of a player where, uh, you know, he love the, he's tall, he's long, he's fast. He's what I wanted Alec Pierce to be. Well, yeah, sure. Well, maybe still could be. But I do think that there are natural receiving traits, you know, with Franklin because I was surprised he's actually pretty strong attacking the football. He does have some instincts after the catch. So he's not just a, you know, go up and get it possession guy.

I mean, he can do something after the catch with the ball in his hands. So, yeah, he ranks second in the pack 12 and receiving yards per game behind only O'Dunze. and if you're going to if you're going to rank the top four receivers in this game, it's tough. I mean, I think, you know, you can make a case, a couple different cases. I think, you know, I'm going to Dunseye A1. I think we agree on that one. I think I'm going Franklin too. And then, you know, it's a toss-up between McMillan and Polk, I, who I both, I like them both very, very similar ranges.

But I think I'm going Franklin, too. I think so, too. He's an ex. And these guys, and man, compared to last year, he's upgraded his route running, I thought. Some of the underneath stuff was a lot better. It's not great. You know, he's not like the most nuanced route runner. There's some details he's missing on stuff, but way better.

And also, like you're talking about, he has some physicality. He's a willing blocker. Like, there's a lot to like. He was a very pleasant surprise for me. I mean, I liked him, but I really like him now, especially what he's shown this year. And there's production to boot with it, which is always nice, too. It's not just traits, straight, straight, straights. Um, but, yeah, any, uh, defensive players in this matchup that, uh, you're checking out.

I know Trice for Washington. I, I like that's kind of like a run first. I've kind of cooled on him a little bit, but I still like him as maybe like a second round, third round type or always third round type. Anyone else in this game that you're, you're keeping an eye on? Trice is interesting because, you know, last year he led all of college football and pressures with 70. This year through five games, he only has 13. And so it's like, okay, what's going on? You know, why is he not affecting the quarterback more? I mean, watching, especially that Jordan Morgan matchup against Arizona,

Jordan Morgan has a chance to be a first round left tackle. Trice is still getting home, maybe still making plays. It's just, I don't know, he's not, maybe not getting there as often, but he still see some of the traits that you like. You like how forceful is with his hands. Because he's not an elite speed guy. He's not an elite length guy, but he maximizes what he has, and he's got athletic urgency.

He's not going to be a big athletic tester, but he has athletic urgency. And I think that physicality that he brings, along with that just relentless motor, it helps him be productive. It's a really good combination to have for a pass rusher. So, yeah, I'm with you. My note on him is that Bill Belichick's going to love him. Oh, yeah. And like the second round.

Like this is a Belichick, this is a Patriots guy all the way. Just push that pocket, push that pocket. Strong, strong, strong. Keep working. And yeah, good motor. And that's exactly what you said. He has some strong hands. He flashes and could shed every once in a while.

But he's not a twitchy, crazy athlete type. But yeah, he's strong. That's the best way to describe him. I put him at number 47 in my top 50 in August. And, you know, he's still right around there. You know, I don't know that like if I updated the top 50 tomorrow, would he still be in the top 50? Maybe, maybe not.

You know, he's kind of right there in that cusp where you can absolutely justify, including him. but if you don't, I don't think it'd be an egregious miss as well. So can Brayland Trice get pressure on Bo Nix? And then can Oregon's patch rush get pressure on Michael Pennix? That'll be a big part of this game. For Oregon, Brandon Doralus, who's kind of that tackle end tweener, right around 280 pounds. Jordan Birch was a big-time transfer from South Carolina.

He was number four, Bruce Feldman's Freaks list. a lot of hype about him breaking out this year. He was barely a factor in the first three games. I mean, it was hard to even find him. And that's not what you want from a guy that's supposed to be this impact pass rusher and have all these traits. But the last two games, he's come on a little bit and he's making progress. So could this be a statement game for Birch who, you know,

scouts are kind of waiting for it to happen? Could it be today or could it be in this game going up against a really good, tackle tandem. And that's, I mean, let's just transition to those tackles because this, yeah, Washington, Oregon might have, you know, two of the best, these two programs have two of the best tackle tannums in the entire country, both left tackle, right tackle for both teams. Now, Oregon, their left tackle, Connerley, he's a true sophomore, but former five star, we'll be talking about him a ton next year, but not draft eligible right now. Their right tackle Cornelius,

transfer from, I think it was Rhode Island, big time FCS transfer. He's been really good. And then for Washington, left tackle, Fontenou, I think he's going to be a better guard, but he's a potential top 100 pick. And then so is their right tackle, Rosengarten, who is, it looks sloppy a lot of times, but, you know, he's got quick feet. He makes it happen. These four tackles are all going to play in the league.

And so it'll be a really good matchup for these defensive ends, see what they can do against these blockers. Do you have off-hand, sorry, I always do this to you? Do you have Birch's official measurables? I don't have verified for him. I think he's. I was curious if he had his length. No, I don't.

And I think it's because being a transfer, he wasn't there in the spring. Got it. So he's one of the few seniors I don't have verified measurables for. But he's, I mean, he's listed at 6-6, 280. I mean, he looks like how you want a defensive end to look. And according to the freaks list, I mean, he was almost 21 miles per hour, on-field GPS. The vertical was good. Yeah, no kidding.

But it's hard to get that type of speed and short areas that pass rushers are moving. So, yeah, he's definitely a guy that's going to check boxes. It's just, okay, I needed to show up more on the field. so the tape matches the traits. And so far hasn't really been the case. But like I said, the last two games, he's shown more and more of that. I'm, yeah, I'm, I'm pretty fired up for this game. Oh my gosh.

It's going to be a doozy. It's going to be hard to not take too much from it, you know? Like, if one of the quarterbacks is clearly better than the other or, you know, one of the receivers, whatever, it's, and that's always tough for evaluators because some of these big games, it's easy to weight it, little bit more. And to a certain extent, you should because all, these players know all eyes are on these games. It's a big deal. A lot is at stake, not just, you know, the PAC 12, but playoff spot and potential national championship run. And then, of course, as prospects, you know, where these guys are going to be in the pecking order of, you know, especially wide receivers, which a crowded position. There's a lot of underclassmen receivers that'll be in this draft that are competing

for widercy for two, three, four, five. And, you know, it's so it could be easy to press and really want to show out on a game that you know there's a lot of eyeballs. So it's, sometimes it could be hard to maybe not wait it too much, but still, I think it is fair to maybe take a little bit more from these games than just your regular matchup against, you know, someone else. But it will be a big time matchup for sure. that's uh it's the end season test when i didn't you know wasn't watching the all the college games during the season the all 22 end of season am i going to be watching this game when i'm evaluating this guy it's like yeah this one yeah this one this one i definitely was probably going to make that three four five six games that i watch at bichs prospects and let's be honest the pack 12

doesn't have a ton of great defenses you know like that is something that is just it's fact you it's great it is it is what it is so we we have to take the tape that we have and you know make the most of it. So, you know, the game's in Seattle, I believe the Huskies are a field goal favorite. So, you know, and I'm sure that's strictly, you know, if the game was in Eugene, it's probably the opposite. So, yeah, this will be a good one for sure. I actually want to know what the point total is. I think that that's actually why I truly want to know. Let's see, see if I can pull it up right away. The, no, I got 67. Yeah, 67, just a cool 67. That, uh, I think that's, they're going to fit right in the

Big 10 because that's a big 10 over under for a basketball game because that that that is a Wisconsin Northwestern basketball over under total right there at 3730. Eyeballs on these games. And I know this next matchup, which is a, it's a classic always, but I always know where the location is based on when it is on the schedule. And we're in October and this game is happening. So I know it's happening in it's happening in Indiana. So USC Notre Dame.

Yeah. Yeah, there's a decent quarterback for USC. but there's some other players to talk about in this matchup. So where do you want to start with this one? Because this one will have a lot of eyeballs on it. And I'm curious where your eyeballs will start with, Dane, when you're evaluating this game. Primetime NBC.

I mean, it's going to be a big one. And Notre Dame's a top 12-ish defense in the country. So this is a big one for Caleb. And he's coming off a so-so performance against Arizona. We're, you know, Arizona credit to them for taking it. to USC should have maybe should have won that game. I would have watched that game because they went knuckleball pitcher on them. So I really want to watch it and see kind of what they did because that was that was interesting.

The USC offense is just I don't know, sloppy. It just doesn't feel in sync right now. And, you know, that's it's up to the quarterback to fix that, you know, to kind of make it right. And so can he do that on the road against a pretty good Notre Dame defense? this is going to be a fun one for sure. I mean, Caleb's Caleb. You know, I, we've talked about him at length, and he's the favorite for number one overall pick,

although, I mean, like we've said, for me, it's 1A, 1B with Drake May. Is the drum, sorry? Is the drum roll starting? Is the beats around? The beats are wrong for Drake May? I would be shocked if they're not just the first two picks. I mean, playing it's simple.

You know, it's, it's, I'm not even so much interested in, like, oh, this guy's definitely better than, May or May is definitely better in Williams and like me on making a stand it's just these these just appreciate these two dudes how good they are um I mean that's that's the thing I've been tweeting bunch of Drake May clips because they they just play these games that not a lot of people are watching it's not USC you know and and people are like man I can't believe you hate Caleb was like no no no no no no no no I really like Caleb it's just that I really really like may as well it's like yeah that that's that's the thing it's like these two are like

you said, it's one A, one B. It's just what you prefer. It's not, it's not a tier difference that, but that's what's awesome. Because I think it's, I think they're worth that, that praise at this point in time, which I think is really cool. It's one of those years where if you get the second pick, and you miss out on Caleb, it's kind of like, aw shucks, but, uh, it's okay. We feel pretty good about, uh, the runner up here at who we're getting. And at the very least, you're getting, uh, uh, uh, if may where to go one, you're still getting Caleb Williams. So you're feeling pretty good about that. Yeah, we'll talk more about the draft order as we get a little bit closer,

but it's going to be fascinating with as these teams. I think there's maybe eight or seven or eight teams that have one win or fewer. And so, and all eight of them would take a quarterback. And so, and that includes the Panthers having the Bears pick. But it'll be really interesting as we get closer in these win-loss records kind of play out. And, you know, who's looking at that number one pick? number two picks. Oh, yeah,

we'll talk more about that as we get closer. But back to this game, you know, it's going to be, what help does the talent around Caleb? What kind of help do they give him going up against this defense? You know, which receiver stand out,

which running back stand out. And then what can the USC defense do to slow down Sam Hartman, who coming off probably his worst performance of the year. You know, had a couple picks against Louisville, you know, just did not, the pass rush was able to get home.

you know, the Notre Dame offense just did not look in sync. So what can the USC defense do, if anything, to slow down Notre Dame? Yeah, so this will be a good one in prime time. And it's, I mean, Caleb's been put up on this pedestal. And so it's just can he live up to that in this, you know, the bright lights of this game? Yeah, it's going to be a fun one. And also, yeah, that Notre Dame offensive line is a terrible matchup for USC's defense. Yeah, because he just pound away at him.

Yeah, they can pound that rock. So I'm speaking to pound the rock, actually, but Marciaun Lloyd, actually the running backs in this game, both sides have kind of gotten some little, I would say late risers, but kind of just they're having, their stocks have been ascending a little bit this season. Marshall Lloyd, what are your thoughts about him? I know he's the rare USC to USC transfer. Yes, he is. South Carolina and Southern California.

But what are the thoughts on him? I describe him as a simple runner. And I don't mean that in a bad way. But that's my one liner on him. But I want to hear what your thoughts on Lloyd. What do you mean by simple? I'm interested in. Just efficient runner, just plant and go.

Get north. And honestly, if he's one-on-one with the safety, he's not going to try and juke him. He's just going to keep running north. And that's fine. I think that he can have a nice role in the league, but it's just that's what he is. He's a nice, simple runner. Yeah. Well, and I think he has a good mix of patience.

and explosiveness. You know, he is, he, for a guy that does have some electricity in his feet, he can break tackles because he will,

uh, lower his pads. I mean, the San Jose State, uh, that tape really stands out as, you know, he was able to create his own yardage.

Um, and so, yeah, what kind of help does he give in this game? And we saw in the Colorado game. It was that first touchdown. He, no business scoring that touchdown.

But with his athleticism, he was able to make it happen. So, and I think he can also help out, um, in the screen game and be a guy that can catch past out of the backfield. That's what I was going to say. Screens,

I really like him because, yeah, that northness of his game. And, like, he just gets the ball and goes and has a, he just has a feel like, his best runs to me.

And usually when you talk about a guy that gets north is a zone runner, is actually the counter runs when they have pullers because counter hits a gap in the middle and then goes outside. And because his running style, and like you said, he temples it, he just goes, one Mississippi.

And they just goes. And it worked, I really like it. It's just, I don't mean this as a disguise. I mean this as a compliment. I like simple runners because it's just like, you know he's going to get everything that's blocked for him and sometimes more. So, yeah.

And this is such an interesting running back class because there is not like, who's the, who's the top running back this year? Like, there is not. I mean, I really thought we could see a Donovan Edwards climb. I mean, he was my top ranked running back in my top 50. We just haven't seen it from him. He's been just kind of fine. He's been okay, but he hasn't been.

impressive. I mean, Blake Corum coming back from that knee injury has been good, but I wouldn't call him exceptional based on what he's done this year. I still really like Blake Corum. I do, and I still really like Donovan. I look as a part of the media guy. Especially at these seniors. Yeah. Well, and Trey Benson, he have a game on Saturday. Yes. 200 yards. He averaged 18 yards of carry, so not bad against Virginia Tech. Jonathan Brooks from Texas has been a nice kind of filling. You weren't sure. Right. You can't replace Bejohn, but Brooks stepping in has been awesome.

I think he's been, Johnlin Brooks has been one of the best running backs that I've scouted so far in this class. He's up there for sure. But all this to say that a guy like Lloyd has really helped himself based on what we thought in the preseason until now. Same thing with like a Ray Davis, at Kentucky, who's been awesome. I think with what Davis has done, he should be a top five senior running back in his class. Lloyd, he's been moving up. So yeah, it's what can you do against a tough Notre Dame defense that they're going to be keying in on Caleb. And so can the run game, can you take advantage of Notre Dame's defense in that way?

Do you have any? Yeah, like Braille and Allen's probably like, you know, Wisconsin bias. But it's like, but it does seem like some of these backs to me are a lot of, I really like this guy with another back. Like he's a, he's the 40% of a 6040 split. or this guy's the 60% of a 64. That's just kind of how I viewed them so far. And so like Trun, maybe that one bell cow,

maybe not this class, but I think there's a lot of fine guys that can be part of like a good group. Speaking of which, the Nurdaim running back. Estimate. Estimate. Yeah, not estimate.

Adric Estime. Any thoughts on estimate? Because Mel Khyper has him as his runnerback one, which threw me for a loop. Really? Am I missing something? Yeah. I believe,

unless I misread, misread his little chart there. But yeah, that's his running back one as of last week. So do you have any thoughts on my estimate? I mean, I get it. Estimate is fun. I mean, he is a square his path to the line of scrimmage, get downhill. But he also has speed.

You know, we saw it on the NC State tape. We see it on, because he, once he gets in the open field, yeah, right. He can, he can, if there's any type of gap between him and pursuit, he can make it even bigger because he has that breakaway speed. So I, you know, watching the Ohio State tape, You can see vision. You see lateral quickness. That final touchdown against Duke in the final minute where he was able to, they're just trying to wind out the clock, maybe kick a field goal.

He scores a touchdown because of that vision, that lateral quickness. So, I mean, Estimate has absolutely helped himself. I mean, again, with these underclassmen running backs, because Estimate is a junior, I mean, he's helped himself as much as anybody. I mean, he's, again, I mentioned Jonathan Brooks, Estimate for sure. you know we haven't seen a ton of Rahim Sanders from Arkansas this year same thing Trayvion Henderson from Ohio State who didn't play against Maryland I was bummed about that so yeah these underclassmen running backs there's a bunch of these guys in the mix that

like if you ask any team what their one two three is at running back you're going to get wildly different answers so hey I'm all for a guy like Estimate if you know someone ranks them that high. I think that sums up what this running back class is. There is not a clear cut one, two, three, or even like one guy that he has to be in your top two or three backs. I can understand why you might prefer some of these other guys. And someone we didn't mention with that Washington, Oregon matchup with Bucky Irving from Oregon, I like quite a bit. So I mean, undersized, under 200 pounds, but he can go. I mean, with the ball in his hands, he's a lot of fun. So, yeah, these running back class, especially the underclassmen, which a lot of these guys are going to come out.

We know that's the nature of the position. It's going to be crowded. It's going to be jumbled. We're going to have a lot of varying opinions. And so it should be a lot of fun as we kind of go through the process. Yeah, big time eye of the beholder. Yeah. And what you want.

I love that. I love when there's not consensus. That's why I actually. Estimate offer something different than. Yeah. So, you know, it'll be really interesting to see how different. teams value these guys based off the scheme and what exactly they're looking for. Yeah, Estimase, I bet you he's very smart because why I say that is because sometimes he's trying

to make the perfect cut. And I want to just say, just point your foot and go. Because when he does plan his foot and go and does use his vision, it's great because he's big and good run. So it's one of those guys I want to keep an eye on because maybe he has more confidence. He's like, oh, I am a guy. Like sometimes, sometimes those guys need that like, okay, all right, remember coach says, okay, we look for the linebacker. So I might have to, if I might have to bounce this. It's like, no, just go, just go. Just hit it. Just hit the A gap, hit the B gap, whatever it is.

But yeah, I know. I saw them high up there. I was like, oh, that's a new name up there. Someone top of the list. Yeah, any other guys in this game that stood out? I know we've mainly focused on offense, other than Zachari Branch. Any other guys that maybe stand out in USC, Notre Dame? I mean, well, the-

tackles for Norderdame, of course. Yeah, I was going to say, I mean, Joe Alt, I mean, he's impressed me so much. I mean, Joe Walt was good last year. But this year, he just, he's, it just everything looks more together and more, I don't know, it's hard to explain, but he just, he, he's played to his hype. Like, I thought he's got a little over hype. Yeah, he really has this year. And maybe a little Notre Dame bump.

The body control. This year, he's, this year he's actually playing to it, which is really cool. Right. Yeah. I know, I 100% agree. I mean, I think he is, he's not quite, I don't think he's past Olu for OT1, but I think he's firmly, when you think about what. you want a top 10 pick.

Joe Walt's in there. I mean, he checks a lot of those boxes. For Notre Dame, on their defensive line, I've been really impressed with Javante Jean Baptiste, Ohio State transfer, who, you know, he transferred from Ohio State just to get more reps. And he's already played more snaps this year than he did all of last year as part of that kind of rotation that they were doing with the Buckeyes with JTT and Jack Sawyer. So that defensive line for Notre Dame is interesting with him.

And then Howard Cross, who played unbelievable against Duke, not so much against Louisville. What does he have for USC's offensive line? Which USC's offensive line has played fairly well this year. But I think Notre Dame will give them more of a test than some of these other teams they've played. Any other college football matchups you're watching this weekend? I mean, we got Miami, North Carolina is a ranked matchup, UCLA, Oregon State. any other just interesting prospects of note, any risers. What's Dane watching?

We do win my four screen with Robert. What's win my one screen with Dane? What do we have for you when you put it on your analyst's hat for this weekend? Let me pull up the schedule here because this is, there are some good games. I mean, I think that Syracuse, Florida State, I definitely want to check in on that one. I want to see how that offense is moving, Trey Benson and those receivers. that'll be good. Arkansas at Alabama.

Alabama seems to be hitting their stride a little bit, which is good to see. And so just to see, especially on defense, Dallas Turner, he leads the nation right now in pressures. So he's going up against an Arkansas offensive line that has played up and down, but if they play to their talent, they can be pretty good.

So Dallas Turner, see how he does against that Arkansas offensive line and KJ. Jefferson, and a quarterback. Auburn at LSU. I mean, LSU, the way they score points, it's, uh, Jayden Daniels have been a ton of fun to watch this year. I, um, I, I liked him at Arizona State, um, but I don't know how seriously, you know, we're taking him as a top 100 type of prospect, but he goes to LSU, looks better last year. And then he's taking another sizable jump this year. He already has more passing touchdowns this year than he did all of last year. Or, any other year of his career.

He leads FBS in total yards per game because he's so good with his legs. Now, he's going to get himself killed out there because he's, you know, he's got some giant Knoxville at his game. He does. He's 205 pounds soaking wet.

I mean, he is a lean, lean guy. But the way that he plays, and some of the, you know, they love that slot fade, they love post routes. He is the best downfield thrower in college football. He's like 20 of 20.

29 on throws of 20 plus. And of those 20 completions, 13 were touchdowns. So no quarterback in college football has more touchdowns of 20 plus yards than Jane Daniels. He's at 13 and then Caleb Williams is next at like 10. So, you know, the way Jane Daniels has been playing, he is right there in that mix with Bow Nix and maybe a few of their names to be that first senior quarterback drafted. I've been really impressed with Jane Daniels. No, I agree. He's been, uh, my friend, our friend probably maybe, Seth Galena, uh, big LSU fan. He just always praises Daniels every week. He tries to hit me up about him. He's like, Heisman Daniels. So yeah, no, but he actually has. I got to watch him a couple years ago when he was at Arizona State. And, uh, they played Wisconsin and the Vegas Bowl. Uh, and then that, which was very nice. And then a COVID breakout happened. And then it was like, no one could go to the game. Uh, but it was, uh, but it was, uh, but, uh, but no.

I've seen him there, some plenty of times at ASU. I agree with you. I liked him and I agree with you that he has really improved and just it's fun watching him air it out. He's got some, he's got some big game hunter to him. So like that 20 plus year air yard stat is perfect because that's exactly it.

He's going to take those chances as a runner and as a thrower. And those guys are fun. I like that. I love guys that are willing to push the ball. It's like I'd much rather have that than the guys that are just, you know, eking down and only throw one or two of those at times. time. Like, it's better to rein those guys back in. So I think that's a great shout right there.

Um, no, I, I'm, for me, the Miami North Carolina game, because I just want to watch both quarterbacks, of course. Uh, that Miami safety that you talk about, uh, kitchens. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I mean, he doesn't have to worry about taking a knee, but it's not his fault. Like he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, but he's, he's something. He, he, he, he, that was a good tal by you because he's been really fun to watch when I've been checking them out. But, uh, it's, it's, it's great. Any, anything else. you want to cap the show off with?

I think this was great kind of keeping an eyeball. I love as these guys are ascending and maybe even descending and just keeping an eye on their stock throughout the year. But anything you want to cap the show off with? One more guy to keep an eye on sticking with the Pack 12 and these quarterbacks, Cameron Ward had a really bad performance. Last weekend's UCLA.

He looked like the 2022 Cam Ward. You know, the guy that just said, yeah, technique fell apart. His two interceptions in that game might be the two worst interceptions. I'll see on tape all year. I've watched it, so I want to hear. What were they? And they were where the defenders just staring right at him, and he's just like, here, you can have it.

I guess I'm done on this drive. Here you go. But he was so good at the beginning of the year, the first four games where it's like, okay, he's taking that next step. He's playing more controlled, with more confidence. And it's like, okay, that's exactly what you want to see from this guy. But when UCLA heated up the pocket, you know, they were bringing that juice with Latu and the Murphy twins.

Actually, the Murphy twins, they're really interesting. Come from North Texas, transferred to UCLA. These guys are, they're kind of in like that Bryce Huff mold where they don't have length. You worry about them versus the run. But, man, they have some juice to win off the corner or win around the corner or shoot gaps. they can be a pretty interesting part of a front seven. So, you know, Grayson Murphy, keep an eye on number 11, number 12 for UCLA in that defense. UCLA, they play at Oregon State this week.

So going up against that offense, they have some pretty good offensive linemen on that team. That'll be good to watch. But then also, again, Cameron Ward, Arizona at Washington State, how does Cam Ward respond after such a just disappointing performance against UCLA? No, that's very important because that's exactly, you want to see consistency. More than anything, that's what it is. It's consistent process and not reverting to bad mistakes. I've told that story a million times, but it's the T-Bo thing. Oh, he fixed his throwing motion.

He fixes his throwing motion. Then he gets heated up and there it is. That balls down to his ankles. It's really nice of those UCLA twins that wear like thing one and thing two. I love it. That really helps out everybody figuring that one out. No, that's a good tell. I'll check them out.

But I think that'll do it for this show. That's it for Prospects of Pros. I think that's a very, very fun one. Season keeps roaring on. We'll be here every single Wednesday to talk about prospects, talked about pros. Me, this is Nate Tice, again with my co-host, Dane Bruegler. Thank you guys for checking this out. See you guys next time.

This was the Athletic Football Show's Prospects to Prospects to Proskast.