The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Prospects to Pros: QB-needy teams in the draft, early pro day observations & more

Episode Date: March 22, 2023

Andy Staples, Dane Brugler and NFL.com analyst Lance Zierlein discuss the dominoes that could fall following the Panthers trade to the No. 1 spot. They examine the draft order and what teams could take a QB in the first round. Then, they talk about their early pro day observations, who has stood out, sleepers to watch and much more. Follow Andy on Twitter: @Andy_StaplesFollow Dane on Twitter: @dpbruglerFollow Lance on Twitter: @LanceZierleinSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTube1:40 Dominoes to fall following Panthers/Bears trade12:43 Examining the draft order & teams that could take a QB33:10 Jalen Carter38:50 Players who have stood out in Pro Days so far42:20 Sleepers to watchToday's show is brought to you by...Atlassian: For projects impossible alone, visit www.atlassian.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to Prospects to Pros. It is getting hot and heavy. It's pro-day season. I'm Andy Staples here with Dane Brugler and Lance Zerline. We got a lot to talk about these guys. We missed last week and we missed a lot. The draft order has been shaken up.

Free agents have been signed, changing teams needs. A bunch of pro days have already happened. A bunch are about to happen. All of the quarterbacks that we think going in the first round are headed for a pro-day appearance here in the next eight days. So it is going to be a very, very active time in the draft industrial complex. How's everybody doing? Good.

The draft industrial complex is such an accurate commentary. I was going to say, it's spot on. It's such an accurate wording. Yes, it really is. It is truly, it has become such a business. But it is still at the end of the day, these teams are trying to find the best. players they can and trying to jockey for position. So let's talk about the thing we missed last week.

Lots of stuff happened, obviously, with NFL free agency opening. But the biggest thing that happened between the last time we recorded and right now is the Panthers traded up for the number one pick. They traded a bunch of stuff to the Bears. The Bears are back at nine now, and the Panthers have the number one pick. what do we think that means in terms of which quarterback do they want? I mean, we're guessing, right? Yeah.

It's, you could make a case for any of these quarterbacks and why it would be a natural fit based off of what the Panthers have been, what they're looking for, the coaching staff. You know, then if the trade first happened, my first reaction was, okay, I think C.J. Stroud might be the favorite now to go number one. But you know what? Anthony Richardson and there's a lot of smoke there. I still think Bryce Young is the best quarterback in this class. So I mean, you absolutely should not be ruling out him as a possibility there at one.

But I did think it was interesting at the combine. Frank Wright did have some quotes on Bryce Young saying how his size was a concern. And this was before the trade. So, you know, did he say that just out of candor? or, you know, it's hard to know what to believe this time of year and what coaches and GMs say and what they really mean. But it's the trade is interesting because of the dominoes about, okay, now how does this change what the Colts do at four? How does this change what the Raiders do at seven? You know, the Bears now picking number nine.

You know, the fascinating thing with the Bears is they might get Jalen Carter, who we think is the best player in the draft. They might still get him at nine now with everything going on with Jaley Carter. So all the Dominoes from this trade and all I know is the Panthers better get this right because they gave up quite a bit to go up and get this quarterback. Yeah, and you mentioned a dominoes. If it is Jalen or rather if it is C.J. Stroud, then I think Bryce Young goes to the Texans, I think. But then what if Lamar Jackson goes to the Colts? Colts need to win now.

I mean, they can say whatever they want, but the Colts need to win. Jim Mersey is going to want to win. That gives you the best opportunity. Will Lamar Jackson be okay with going to Indianapolis? Is that a city he wants to live in? There's nothing wrong with it, but I mean, that's just something you have to throw out there

for any high-end player in any sport. Do they want to live in that city? It's like a question you have to ask and throw out there. Colts have a chance to win quickly, very, very quickly, if Lamar were to go there. So what if the Colts went after? Lamar Jackson. What if they were, you know, would Baltimore even want to move him inside of the AFC? I don't know. But if they did, that number four pick would be nice. I'm sure

Baltimore would love that. Would Baltimore, if the Colts, let's just say in this scenario, they went and made a deal for Lamar Jackson. Well, or they got the deal done through, you know, through the signing. Well, then Baltimore, do they draft quarterback then? At number four? Yeah, I would think probably Richardson fits the profile for sure. Will Levis are, you know, will the Raiders be out on a quarterback now that they've signed Jimmy Garapolo? Is that a domino that prevents them or precludes them from taking? I don't think it should be.

To me, you've got to sit a quarterback anyway, year one, either Richardson or Levis. So for me it wouldn't. But it will also be interesting if it's Bryce Young at one. and here's why. David Mollgetta is the agent for Deshaun Watson. I'm wondering if there's some ill will hurt feelings from the Texans on their side with how things went down. They gave Deshawn a $27 million signing bonus. By the way, after DeAndre Hopkins had already been traded, he redid that deal. Some people get the timeline mixed up.

Deshaun already knew D'Hop was gone, signed his deal, and played a year. they won four games. Deshawn had a really good year. He decided, I guess I'm not going to play anymore for the Texans. Didn't give back any of the signing bonus. And, you know, had his commentary about the Texas, whatever that, whatever it may have been. You now have David Mullgetta clients and Jalen Ramsey has done this more than once. You have Deshawn Watson has done this with the Houston Texans.

I want to say, I don't know, was did we have that same issue with Ingoquay, is he is an Gakway, a Mollgeta client when he got out of Jacksonville? I'm not sure if that was a case. But I do wonder if some of the stuff that went down with Deshaun Watson and the Texans, if that would prevent or preclude the Texans from taking C.J. Strouda, too. I don't think it should personally. Personally, I believe that you draft the players. You have to do business with agents.

Teams and agents have disagreements that linger. But eventually you have to do business with agents. and you have to do business with teams. You can't just avoid it. And so, I mean, we saw that with Scott Boris in baseball. Eventually, everybody has to deal with Scott Boris. But I do wonder if the Texans would say, we're going to pass on quarterback or take a different quarterback other than

C.J. Strau, because we don't want to deal with David Malagetta again with another quarterback. I am curious if that's, I haven't heard anything, but I wonder if that will play into it at all. That's interesting. And the Texans, it felt like Bryce Young was the guy that they might be targeting. It still feels like that's pretty safe if that's who they want. But if you want C.J. Stroud, and I thought that was interesting because the comments you've seen coming out of Carolina, they're not saying we're absolutely using this pick.

They're still leaving the door cracked like, hey, if somebody really wants the number one pick. They can give us some stuff for it. Yeah. Well, and as soon as the trade was made, I started, I sent out a bunch of texts and just, okay, who do you think it's going to be? And one of, I got back literally, at least one person said one of the quarterbacks. So all the four quarterbacks were represented it. So nobody knows.

And then one of the, but somebody texts said, I wouldn't be surprised. They moved back now because they control the draft. They control what happens. And as they continue to do work, they moved up with a specific quarterback in mind. 100% believe that. But as they do continue to do their work throughout the Pro Day circuit and everything, you know, maybe they are comfortable with a few of these guys and they're comfortable moving back a few spots.

And, you know, it's not totally crazy. But I still think where we are right now, it would still be a little bit of a surprise. I think the overwhelming favorite for what's going to happen is they're going to stick. They're going to pick. And it's just a matter of trying to figure out which quarterback it is. And we've said this, you know, really since the fall. I think we all agree that Brayshung is the best quarterback in this draft,

but all it takes is one team to see it just a little bit differently. And whether that's Levis, whether it's Richardson, whether it's Stroud. So you can't rule out any of these quarterbacks. Here's the game you could start playing. Everything we're hearing now is Stroud, Stroud, right? No one knows. Stroud, Stroud, Stroud, Stroud. Well, what happens when, so if I'm Carolina, you know,

the next thing I want out there is I'm going to start whispering, it's young. And I heard... The Texan's nervous. That's what they really want. Exactly. So I heard Schaefter mentioned Bryce Young just the other day. The next thing you do is you throw Bryce Young out there, young, young, young.

You get a little bit of Anthony Richardson just to keep the embering on. In case there's somebody in love with him too, yeah. Yeah, just in case. But what you're hoping to do is if you're Carolina, you're saying, will the Texans love young enough that they'd be willing to give us the first picking in the second round. Like Ryan Poles made it sound like the Texans were willing to give up their first next year.

If the Texans want to give that to Carolina and Carolina literally has, we're good with either of these two quarterbacks, why would you not take it? If the Texans would give you, I mean, I would do that pick. If I like C.J. Stroud and I knew for a fact the Texans would take Young or I was willing to gamble on it, I'll take your 33rd pick. I'll take your first pick of the second round and still get the guy that I want. So it wouldn't shock me to Carolina's got to keep that in play.

They've got to say it's in play right now because you still have a chance to maybe drag a pick out of the Texans. I'd kind of keep, you know, you could let some things, it makes some sense that you'd have some smoke out there regarding Bryce Young. As a matter of fact,

I guarantee we'll start hearing Bryce Young connected to the Panthers next because there's just too much Stroud, Stroud, Stroud, and that may be a smoke screen in and of itself as well. I don't know. Dan, how close are you between Stroud and I'm trying to recall how close you are? Personally, I think Young is clearly the better quarterback on tape, but is your pro-projection?

How close are you on those two guys? I think that with, I mean, I agree with what you said. Like, I think there's a clear line between the two, but it's not a huge gap in terms of the type of pros they could be. I mean, Bryce Young, it's just the size. Everything else I feel really good about that, the size, and then just not having, a plus arm within the pocket. Those two areas are concerns for the next level, but everything else I feel great about.

And, you know, a lot of things that are pivotal playing the position at a high level, he has that. Stroud, I feel great about his floor because of his accuracy from the pocket. The ceiling is all dependent on how he develops as a guy that can be creative and be an off-scheduled thrower

and make those plays that we saw in the Georgia game, which I, you know, we've seen him do it so we know he can can he do it consistently that's that's the hang up with stroud so i feel good about his floor it's just the ceiling's a little uncertain at this point um and it's still you know the number one overall pick honestly feels rich for cj stroud but it you know at the same time if you feel like you're at the you know his floor you're getting a solid starter you know that's you could feel great about that but in traditional terms we think of the number one pick as, okay, this is a future Hall of Famer.

When, in reality, that's just not always the case in every draft. And so with this year's class, you know, each one of these teams, look at these guys differently, and it'll be interesting, especially, okay, Will Levis. Let's say he, let's say the Raiders, let's say three quarterbacks go top five. Let's say the Raiders don't go quarterback. And let's say Will Levis is still there. What happens with Levis? He could be the one that maybe slips just a little bit.

where do we see him going? Could we see a team like Tampa move up maybe to get Levis, move up a few spots? What about Minnesota? What about, I mean, there's a couple teams in the back half, in the teens, in the back half of round one, that are interesting landing spots for a guy like Levis who, you know, if he slips just a little bit, maybe, you know, a team could be aggressive and go get him. So, all right, let's play a little game here. we assume let's assume the panthers keep the pick and they take a quarterback who else is taking

i'm going to i'm going to start naming teams and we're going to figure out where the last spot is you can get one of these quarterbacks if you really want one houston taking a quarterback right yes yeah okay cardinals aren't no colts are yes okay okay Seahawks. They have Gino Smith. I don't believe they are. To a three-year deal. Personally, you could, but I just don't think they will.

Sorry, real quick. On the Colts. They're doing a lot of work on some of these other quarterbacks, too. And talking about Hendon Hooker. A.in O'Connell is a 30 visit for them. So while I think it's, you know, 90%, high percentage, they go quarterback at four. I wouldn't say that it's a certainty just because they might not love, if two quarterbacks go one, two, they might not love the quarterbacks that are there at four.

And even though Chris Ballard is, his butt's burning because it's a hot seat. But he's not the type of guy. He is very, I mean, in Lance, you can attest to this. You know Chris as well. He will stick to his guns and not force something just because, hey, I might as well. I'm going to lose my job anyway. That's just not how he operates. So if he doesn't love one of these quarterbacks,

I wouldn't be shocked if he waits until maybe the second round or later on and takes a quarterback. And they just kind of try to go a different direction. That's why Lance is talking about Lamar Jackson as a possibility because they have to have all the options out there on the table right now. And Lamar is some kind of a specter hovering over this. Oh, yeah. Lamar Jackson is that wild card.

look, Karen and Rogers are in the stable. The only one left is, and so is Jimmy G. The only one left now is Lamar Jackson, and he's the biggest, well, I say he's the biggest prize, the most long term of all of these. And of course, Aaron Rogers was, really it was going to be the Jets or Bust. Lamar could really shake up. Like in my mock draft, my last mock draft,

I had Lamar going to the Atlanta Falcons. I had the Falcons trading with the Ravens and picking up Lamar Jackson. And then shortly thereafter, on the same day, Pete Schrager had a report about the teams who would not, you know, who said they would not be taking Lamar Jackson. And that included Miami and included Atlanta and Carolina. And so my, this is before Carolina made the pick to one or the move to one. And my editor said, listen, can we have you read, do you, even know your mocks out, can we have you update it? because we can't have, you know, it'd be kind of a waste to have your mock have something in it happening where Pete Schrager's reporting it can't happen. So I was fine with that. And I just took that out. And I actually was able to tighten up the mock pretty quickly. And then, of course, shortly thereafter, Caroline ends up trading up to one, which invalidated my mock once again. But I think with Chris Ballard, he has a contract. He has plenty of years left on it. And he believes in process. He is a strict believer in process. He visits with NFL, or rather MLBGMs. He visits with NBA personnel. He studies, he reads, he's a

voracious reader. He believes very greatly in that you stand by your beliefs and you don't do something that you don't believe in. And, you know, I think he would draft a developmental quarterback if he felt that quarterback gave him the best chance to win down the road. I don't think he's going to do anything for now. I think everything he does, and this is fundamentally who he is, it's going to be with the belief of this is what's best for the team. It's not best what's for me right now in 2023. It's what's best for the Indianapolis Colts in the long run. And I believe he'll operate like that when he makes these moves. So we've said Seahawks probably not playoff team. They can pick up a nice piece at another position and help themselves. And they like Gino's

Smith. Lions. Not until 18, I don't think. I don't think it's six. They're so, they need so much help in a secondary and a defensive line. I just, can you see that dang quarterback at six? I mean, I could be wrong, but I could see them getting frisky with the 18th pick, maybe moving back up. With the moves they've made in free agency, I think they've positioned themselves to really do whatever the heck they want at six. I do think corner makes, ton of sense, you know, whether it's Devin Wetherspoon, Christian Gonzalez. That makes sense. Defensive line, certainly. They could go that route. I wouldn't rule it out, though, because of the moves they've made and, you know, where they feel like they're at, they feel really good about competing right now.

Again, I think it just comes down to if the right quarterback is there, then, you know, you're going to at least, you know, strongly consider it. Is it worth passing on, if you think Anthony Richardson is going to be, or Will Levis, whoever it is, is going to be a, you know, a superstar in the league or a guy that's going to be a pro bowl type talent, a quarterback, can you really afford the pass? And I think with where the GM is, with the head coaches, I feel like they, they feel pretty comfortable with where they're at right now. And so I don't know. I wouldn't completely rule it out, but I do agree with you. I think it's more likely they go with a defensive player there at number six.

So, you know, I want to make this point for people who are listening because I think all us recognize this. It's something that happens every year and then people kind of forget about it when all the mock drafts come out. And then you start seeing free agency moves. You're like, oh, my mock draft, that team can't possibly take that player again. And this is, oh, Jimmy Garoppolo, Raiders, I've got a scrap quarterback there. Free agency is great for two things.

Number one, it makes you less desperate on draft day. That's the first thing you have to recognize is free agency. It doesn't necessarily mean that a team won't take a player just because signed a player, but it makes them to where, it makes them less predictable and less desperate. And I think to me, free agency is all about filling in those gaps. Some of them long term and some of them are good enough if we don't have to,

you know, you know what, if we can't, now quarterback's a little different, but if you say, okay, wide receiver, everyone's telling me the Texans need a wide receiver.

They have to have a wide receiver. What I explained to people was, look, Metchie was a second round pick. He's going to probably, we hope he plays this year and that he's healthy. Nico Collins is the second round pick and he's you know he's got some ability and fits this offense frankly. They added Robert Woods in two years are guaranteed at $10.5 million. They're not drafting a wide receiver in the

first three picks which are two in the first and one and because who's which one of those guys is not going to play is not going to get the minutes unless the snaps unless and I'm not saying one of those wide receivers isn't better than who you've got with the Texans but they put themselves in a position where they don't have to reach at wide receiver by adding Noah Brown and adding Robert Woods. And I'm using that team, they're local here for me, just as an example of Detroit has done a nice job of this as well. Who else is it? The bears have done a nice job at certain positions of saying, okay, we're going to add to certain positions. So now we're less predictable on draft day and we're less desperate. And that's the real key is being less

desperate on draft day than you would be. Yeah, and so the Garoppolo thing's interesting to me. I was looking at the details of the contract. It's $45 million guaranteed. They could get out of it after a season if they wanted to. You'd have to be pretty happy with what's going on, or you could keep him two years and really have no issues getting out of it for the third year. So does that preclude them from taking one of the big quarterbacks here?

or do they say we're good? If there's somebody we really love next year, then great, we'll take them. Yeah, I think that's where they're at, right? If the right quarterback is there at seven or, you know, maybe if the right quarterback's there at three and they examine what it takes to move up, I think, yeah, they'll absolutely do it. But I don't think they're, you know, they have to do it. They don't feel like they're going to have to force the issue with quarterback because they have Jimmy G. and, you know, they can wait another year.

I feel like Josh McDaniels and Ziegler, GM, I think they feel like they're in this for the long haul. You know, this is not a, you know, we better get this fixed quick and all that. You know, there are a lot of reports out there that they, our own Jeff Howell with the Athletic, you know, he said how they, they just kind of sniffed around, but it would take the move up to number one, that number one pick with the bears. And, you know, the Panthers just, you know, their package of, you know, compensation was just too great. the Raiders couldn't match it, but they're at least looking at every quarterback option.

They talked about Aaron Rogers. So, you know, everything's on the table for the Raiders. I would have, if the right quarterback's there, I think they take them. But if the right quarterback isn't there, I think they'll be just fine passing. So we have not hit four teams yet that have to take a quarterback, by the way.

No, five, six, seven, that have to? No, I don't think the Raiders have. No, have to. I mean, the Falcons don't have to. They've got Desmond Ritter and they added Heineke. And Taylor Heineke, yeah. I don't know that it precludes him from it still. That's one of those perfect examples of it doesn't preclude you.

And to that point, you could say Texans added Case Keenom to go with Davis Mills, but they still have to. I mean, just for the happiness of the fan base. That feels like, that feels like, Case Keenon feels like a guy you bring in to help bring along. A young quarterback. Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. But once you get, you know, the next ones you need, like Tampa Bay, as Dane mentioned, they're much later in there. I think Minnesota is a sneaky quarterback needy team when you look at the contract of

Kirk Cousins and really, frankly, the ceiling of Kirk Cousins. He's been a much better pro than people give him credit for. He's kind of a, you know, people love to bash Kurt Cousins take their shots, but he's been incredibly consistent and productive. He just doesn't win the big games. I mean, that's what it is. So I could see a team like Minnesota potentially surprising. They could be one of those surprised teams moving up.

And of course, we've heard Lamar Jackson's name mentioned with the Patriots recently, too. And we also heard that maybe Mack Jones and Bill Belichick and Bill Belichick didn't love the way that Mac Jones played last year and how he handled everything. And maybe Mac Jones wasn't happy having defensive coordinators call his plays. Yes. As I say, Mac Jones and their new offensive coordinator, while they never were together at Alabama, can get plenty of intel on one another. Yes. As well. Let's play a game at Connect the Dots with the Vikings. Who's their head coach? It's Kevin O'Connell, right? Yep.

Where was Kevin O'Connell before that? The Rams. The Rams. Liam Cohen. Before he... Oh, well, let us. Before he was with, before he was the play caller in Kentucky, the first time. He worked with Kevin O'Connell for the Rams. He was with the Rams. He was the assistant quarterbacks coach under Kevin O'Connell and Coach McVeigh. So if anybody, if any of these head coaches is going to have a good idea of Will Levis and what he can do, it's going to be Kevin

O'Connell with the Vikings. And so that's an interesting connection if Levis does slip a little bit. The Vikings could be, like you said, one of those sneaky teams to make a move. And that's a place where it makes sense. And also for Will Levis, that would be very good. Oh, yeah. Because Kirk Cousins can be the guy. You can come along slowly. Now, I'm sure Kirk Cousins wouldn't be real thrilled about it. You'd probably have an Aaron Rogers Jordan Love situation there. But Kirk Cousin is going to go do his job. So. Well, I think the way his contract is set up. It's like, okay, this, I think after this year, they could possibly move on. This is where the guarantees stop, yeah. Right. So, you know, I don't think it'd be a shock

if the Vikings looked to reset that quarterback clock when it comes to the contract. Yeah. And I think that's something that we need to consider because I saw a mock on ESPN on Tuesday morning where they had four quarterbacks going to the top five. And I think we can. talk ourselves into a feeding frenzy like that. But history tells us teams do take a more long view, a more objective view of this thing and don't freak out. And a couple of easy, like we may see, we may see go one, two, and then, you know, like 16 and 23.

Well, now, if Lamar Jackson, if Lamar Jackson were to go to the Colts, just as an example, one of the teams that we say is quarterback needy, I think it gets. really interesting in how far the quarterbacks could fall. Because like you said, Dane, Dane hit us with something three weeks ago that I didn't realize. No quarter, never had four quarterbacks in the top 10. I went and did the research. I'm like, wait a minute.

Dane has to have been wrong about that. I know. And it's sure enough. Like the closest we got to was 21 with Justin Fields going 11. That was the closest we got. And if you look at, if you look at, you know, Levis and Richardson, you go back and why. tape and you're like, oh, I forgot that all the hype trains started rolling and you forget all

the issues and you start trusting the tape and you say, oh, man, last year I felt the same way about you know, Malique Willis's tape and look where he went. He went in the third round. Desmond Ritter, who was a great leader, but had some issues in terms of ball placement. He didn't go until the third round. And if you, you're 100% right, Andy, it's always defeating frenzy mentality. And you do have a run on certain positions. But at some point, quarterbacks get you fired. And every general manager and every head coach knows, if you draft it, never forget being an NFL, hopefully, I don't know if I told this story on this podcast, maybe a different pros to prospects. But I was in a NFL films doing a mock draft.

We did a mock draft in 2014. The year Johnny Mansell was in it and Blake Bortles and these guys. And Brian Billick was there. And Brian Billick made the comment that he said, and I said something about liking a quarterback at pick number, you know, like eight. I didn't like him at eight, but I liked him more like it, you know, maybe 20 or I didn't like him at 12, but I liked him more at 24. And he said, what's the difference? Because once you draft the quarterback, whether it's your, he's the 23rd or the third pick, once you draft that quarterback in the first round, they, they turn over, you know, the sand dial on you. And your clock. And your clock is now ticking on your job.

and he said Kyle Bowler is an example of his job. Once they drafted Kyle Bowler, you either develop him or eventually they get you fired. And it was a great point because it's true. Whether you draft a guy first or 31st, the expectations are this is a first round quarterback and this should be the guy. And so I think teams, if they don't believe in it, this is why you have to pass on quarterbacks if you don't believe in them. You really do because it resets you.

It takes you out of the quarterback market for two to three years. minimum and you're right back in the same place that you were before. And that's why you see some precipitous drops. I go back to 2005. Alex Smith goes number one. They spent the whole time talking about would it be Alex Smith and Aaron Rogers won two. And then Aaron Rogers falls into the 20s.

No. A lot of it was circumstance, but still, I mean, think about how many people pass on Air Rogers. And we'll see this year with Jordan. Jordan Love goes out and has a good year. Jordan loves a player that fell to the late 20s. The Packers kind of stayed put and grabbed them and, you know, might end up looking like a great pick.

You know, we don't know until we actually get to see them on the field. So, you know, it's, it is rare that, you know, in the back half of, you know, what happened with Lamar Jackson. But it's pretty rare that you sit in the back half of round one and just let the quarterback fall to you. But, you know, we do have a couple examples out there. You mentioned Aaron Rogers, mentioned Lamar Jackson. and could Jordan Love be that guy? So could Will Leavis be one of those guys

for one of these quarterback-needy teams? Especially, because again, a team like the Vikings, you're looking at, you know, it's one thing to say like the Colts or one of the teams picking top 10 and saying, well, hey, the Texans, next year's quarterback class looks pretty good. But if you're a team like the Vikings,

you're expecting to be picking somewhere not in the top 20 next year again. So, you know, how many bites of the apple are going to get at a good quarterback So if you really like Levis, maybe you don't love them, but maybe you really like them, that, that, that, that, that, that, that comes, that, that's going to be a tough decision for a team like that, with where they're picking. Well, and, and so that actually brings me to the bucks because they're, they're an interesting case.

Because they, they, they signed Baker Mayfield. You know, you can go with Baker Mayfield. This feels like they might be trying to get into the, the Caleb Williams, Drake May sweepstakes in, in 24. Because they're kind of no man's land. in terms of if they want to take a quarterback now. Yeah, I'm not in a rush if I'm Tampa. I'm just not in a rush and giving up draft capital. I mean, giving up draft capital is a big deal.

And I know that they're on paper from a roster standpoint. They're closer than a lot of teams without quarterbacks. But, man, to move up from where they are to the, you know, and to try to grab quarterback, I just, unless they fall. And once again, I do think one of these quarterbacks is definitely going to fall. I just, I know I had four quarterbacks in my top 10 in my last mock, but the more I look at this and think about it, and Andy, I mean, you verbalized it perfectly. We all get caught up in some point, and eventually we dial back if we look at history,

and we really just let the performances of these players speak to us. Because at no point when I was watching Anthony Richardson was I saying, man, I mean, early in the year, I said, oh, he's got a chance. And then late in the year, I just like, he needs to stay another year. This is not first round material. This keeps happening over and over again. It's not a coincidence. Yeah.

And that's the same thing with Levis. I mean, I was not seeing a first. I thought, well, Levis is blown. He has no chance of being in the top 10 now. And I put him in a top 10 like every one of the first two mock drafts I've had. Wait a minute now. I know what I saw. But he is one of those tricky ones because I'm sticking with my grade.

but the Josh Allen thing could help Richardson or Levis and or Levis because someone could talk themselves into this is the next Josh Allen. I think there's a chance. It doesn't necessarily have to be someone of the top 10 though. I think Jalen Hertz too. Yeah. With a second round pick who, again, Jalen Hertz had the competitive toughness. He had the mental aptitude. He had good enough physical skill set.

He just had to be more consistent as a passer. and it was rough there for a few years as he got better and better, but he did get better and he was in the Super Bowl. And he played well enough to win that game. So I think Josh Allen, Jalen Hertz are two prime examples that teams will point to when debating where to put these quarterbacks on the board. Let's talk pro days. And obviously, we'll have more on the quarterback pro days next week

because we will have seen at that point, Stroud, Young, and Levis, and then Richardson is next Thursday. So we'll have a much better idea on the quarterbacks. But there have been a lot of pro days already, including George's pro day. Jalen Carter worked out there. He has plead. I never get that word right. Planned?

He's made a plea deal in the legal case. So it seems like that part of things is wrapped up. And his pro day performance was not particularly. spectacular. But again, I go back to what Lance was just saying. We saw what we saw on film. Yeah.

And he, talking to a scout that was there, he said he looked great for a few plays. Then his legs gave out. And look, he was nine pounds heavier than he was at the combine. He's been dealing with a lot in a really short period of time. So I don't think, you know, we need to be killed.

I don't think scouts are killing him that much. Disappointing, yes. But with everything that's been going on with him and everything he's been having to deal with, I think that there's a little bit of a grace period. Now, you know, we'll see, I don't know if he plans to do another workout or not. I mean, he did positional drills, but it did not do any of the testing at the pro day. Will he do have another pro day in April and actually do some of the testing? I probably not. I have not heard one way or the other though. So we'll have to wait and see on that for Jalen Carter. But, you know, it's, I think it was smart for him and his lawyers and everybody to get it wrapped up.

You know, he has to do community service and probation and all that. But get it, get it out of the way. You know, get it done with. And so we can, you know, teams can just focus on him and what he needs to do as a player. And so they were smart to do this now instead of letting it linger. up until draft time. Well, and that's a, teams want to know, is there something out there about you that could bite us in the ass?

And when you can say, here's the case, we've made a plea, there will be no jail time. And of course, he will be promising to everyone he talks to, I'm sure, hey, I'm not going to be, I'm going to be careful. I'm not going to be doing anything that's going to make you worry. That's what he's going to sell. Now, the question is, are there teams now that are in the mix for him that maybe wouldn't have been before all this? Oh, yeah. There's teams doing a lot more homework on him.

Now, although this is a fallacy. A lot of people think that, okay, well, why would the chiefs study quarterbacks at all? There's no reason to. No, you always do. Your scout does the work on them. you may not put as much into it. You may sign them in free agency five years from now. Absolutely.

You have to know these guys. Even if there are positions that you don't need, you need to know who they are personality-wise. So while there are some teams who everyone was doing their work on Jalen Carter, now I'll guarantee you teams that, you know, teams that like who's at 13, Dane, 13-14? Jets. Yeah. Jets.

The Jets may be saying, wait a minute now. we've got to really think about okay guys if jalen carter slipped to us what are we doing now that question wasn't asked early on now you're asking it what are you doing at 14 what is he a stealer is he somebody that we could do in our locker room are we good with jalen carter this is questions that guys teams that had no they had no business asking this question previously they now are asking and they may have known about some of the character concerns and it may have come up in and readings of players, you know, early on before the combine. But now they're having serious questions about, okay, we need to know.

Tell us more about Jaylin. Let's go on a deep dive. That's absolutely happening right now. One of the reasons I don't think he's probably, I doubt he's going to work out again is because he's going to be a very well-traveled guy with a lot of 30 visits set up over the next three weeks because teams are going to bring him in and just to try and figure them out. It's the best way by having them in your facility, talking to everyone, giving everyone's input.

You know, so the Bears, the Bears are bringing him in for a 30 visit. The Bears pick at number nine. That seems like a strong possibility if he's still there on the board at that point. They, you know, could use a three technique in that scheme. You know, you look at some of the teams picking right after, you know, the Jets, you know, they haven't needed defense to tackle. I mean, that's, there's a lot of different. possibilities there. Does he get past Seattle of five?

I mean, Seattle's traditionally been an organization that is not shied away from, you know, players with maybe a few character concerns that they've been bitten in the past because of it, but they've also hit on some guys. So, you know, it's a real wildcard at this point, but you're right. There's a lot of teams picking outside the top seven, top eight picks that are doing a little bit extra homework just because they think there might be a chance that, they now have a chance at one of the best, or arguably the best player in the draft. So, Dan, you had a list of a couple other guys who've already had their pro days who stood out to you.

Who's on that list? A couple of guys from Michigan's pro day. Ronnie Bell, he really impressed with his three cone. He got it down to, who's already under seven seconds, but at the pro day, he got it down to 662, which is a, phenomenal time. Luke Schoonmaker, who is one of my favorite tight ends in his class, he was kind of a good and bad. On the good side, he had at 246 pounds, he had a 681, three cone.

It's just unbelievable. The bad part with Schoonmaker, he wasn't able to finish the position drills because he hurt his right leg. So, and this is a guy that has been banged up all year, both shoulders. So, you know, you worry about durability with Scoot Maker. But, man, he's got a lot of talent that we haven't even seen all of it yet. So Scoot Maker's a good player. Trenton Simpson from Clemson, he jumped over 40 inches in the vert.

He was looking good. On the disappointing side, Andre Carter from Army, now is good and bad. His three cone, under seven seconds, 697. Great number. His 40-yard dash, 491 for Andre Carter. which is a bad number. Let me see. What did he weigh in it?

I was saying he didn't look huge at the senior bowl. No, he's not. No. That's not a speed you want for that size person. No. He was 256 at the pro day. Yeah. I think he's going to really plummet, to be honest with you.

I think he's going to really fall because. Day three. Yeah. I mean, I think he could go fifth or beyond because the problem we have is he's definitely not strong enough right now. You know when you draft him, you have to have a red shirt year just to get him bigger and stronger, first and foremost. So now you're on a four-year contract. Depending on where you draft him, you're looking at four years. The first one is going to be a red shirt year because he's got to get bigger and stronger. I talked to a coach who used to coach at Army, and he said,

you know, when it comes to the service academies, they have such a busy, like you can't get as big as you're going to get, at least for some of these guys. And he felt very strongly that Andre Carter would, you know, get to be much bigger and stronger. But he said, you know, it's going to take time too. And so Andre Carter was just so overwhelmed at times at the senior bowl, just physically overwhelmed. So the one thing that you wanted to see was because his rush total,

his sack total wasn't great this year. It was good the year before. So you didn't have great tape this year. Now you didn't have a very good senior bowl. You're undersized. You need to get stronger. and now you come up with an athletic profile that did not necessarily check the box that you were hoping for, that's really leaving you without the check marks that you want.

I mean, there's a lot of them, production this year, cannot check that box, size, cannot check that box, ability to come in and play early, can't check it, athletic profile, you can't necessarily check it. And that's what's tough for a guy like Andre Carter is he does have upside. You can see it, but how long is it going to take to get there is going to be the question. No doubt, no doubt. One, okay, so one guy I did want to mention here, if I know a lot of our listeners, they're draft nerds like us. They want to know about the super sleepers.

Oh, yeah, guys on the pro day circuit who, so here's a name that everyone needs to know. Offensive tackle from Northern Michigan, Jake Witt. Writing them down right now. write him down because he has a chance to get drafted I talked to him he had his pro day at central Michigan last week Wednesday since Wednesday he's heard from 25 teams wow he had an amazing workout at the pro day

and he's a former basketball player didn't play football until his junior year of high school now was eight man football in upper peninsula Michigan goes to Michigan Tech to play basketball then he decides to give up, he transfers, gives up basketball, just a regular student, gets the itch again to go out for football at Northern Michigan, 2020 seasons canceled, 2021, he's a tight end, the third to last game of the year, injuries just ravaged the offensive line, never played offensive line in his life, never practiced it in his life.

Coaches come to him at half time of a game and say, we need you at right tackle. He's like, okay, so he goes out there, and it says silly, and they're playing Ferris State. Caleb Murphy is going to be drafted. Silly. And he used that word. I had a good conversation with Jake. He called the tape silly. But for this past season, he moved to left tackle and it got better. It got better and better and better.

And then his workout at Central Michigan, so okay, I'll read you the numbers. 607-1, 302 pounds. He was 265 last year as a time. I'm looking at pictures of this guy. Lean. I cannot believe he's 300 pounds He's all rocked up Yeah

He's 3.02 and he's He said by May he wants to be 310 July he thinks he'll be at 315 comfortably He's 33 and a half inch arm So decent not great length But okay length In the 40 he ran a 489

With a 1 7 110 The jumps were really impressive 37 vert Which would have tied for the best At the Combine among all offensive linemen 103 broad jump which the best broad jump we've seen from an offensive lineman in the last decade. Tristan Wirthes was amazing and he was like a 10-1.

Short shuttle is 4-6-2, 3-cone 7-44, good times. 22 reps in the bench. And the numbers are great. The positional stuff, I'm told, was amazing, was awesome. Just the way he was moving out there. There's a lot of buzz for Jacob Witt, and I've got a story coming out in the athletic this week about him. And just his background.

He's a really fun player. Really, you know, he's, I think he, you know, he's embracing the moment because this is, like I said, he's hurt from 25 teams in less than a week based off of what he did at this pro day. He's, he was on the radar, but barely. You know, teams barely knew about him. And now he's just blowing up because of his workout. Well, I'm looking, the guy physically that he reminded me of when I saw the picture is Tyron Smith coming out. out of USC. And Tyron Smith looked like that his entire life. Like they had in high school too. But I was looking for his, he didn't do a lot of the testing at the combine. He did go on his

pro day jump 29 inches and his broad jump was a little under, a little under nine feet. So, um, I'm sorry, a little, yeah, little under nine feet, bad at math. But so this is, that's the type of athleticism you're talking about. That's a, that's pretty incredible. Oh, yeah. I mean, make no mistake about it. This is a project. He's a draft and stash type of player. But, I mean, it's what you look for in the sixth and seventh round. You're looking for traits. You're looking for the guys that you don't want to out bid other teams for. Jordan Myeletta. It took the words right out of my mouth. I mean, the Eagles took a flyer on him. He had never played football before. The Eagles drafted him based off of rugby highlights. At least this guy knows the rules.

Yeah, he at least has some experience. So, you know, he's got a little bit of a leg up on myelita, not quite as, doesn't have as much experience as say like a Bernard Raymond, you know, who the Colst drafted last year, the third round out of Central Michigan. But, you know, he's somewhere in the middle of those two. So somewhere late in the draft, don't be surprised. You hear Jake Witt's name called. He's a name you need to know about.

I cannot wait to see more about this guy and read your story on him. We got a lot to talk about when we come back next week because we've got a bunch of pro days. Actually, we're recording this on Tuesday. Cam Newton throwing at Auburn's Pro Day. Everybody's coming to see Tank Bigsby and Derek Hall, and some of the Owen Papo, but Cam Newton throwing on that one. But then you've also got C.J. Stroud going at Ohio State. You got Bryce Young and Brian Branch at Alabama's and Jemir Gibbs, obviously. and then Will Levis and Kentucky.

You got Michael Mayor at Notre Dame going the same day. You got the Penn State guys are going that day. So we're going to have a ton to talk about next week based off these pro days. Guys, it's been a pleasure. Now I'm going down to Jake Witt Rabbit Hole for the rest of the day. So thank you for that, Dane. We'll talk to you again soon. You'll never get it.

This was the Athletic Football Show.