The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Prospects to Pros: QB3 candidates, Caleb Williams check-in, rookie standouts, and more

Episode Date: September 13, 2023

We just put a bow on Week 2 of the college football season, and we've already got our first bit on Prospects to Pros: Who's the QB3? Nate Tice and Dane Brugler discuss a few candidates on this episode of The Athletic Football Show. The guys also check in on Caleb Williams, highlight standouts on the defensive side of the ball, and give some love to the rookies who flashed in Week 1 of the NFL season.Follow Nate on X: @Nate_TiceFollow Dane on X: @dpbruglerSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTubeThis episode is sponsored by LinkedIn. Right now, you can try LinkedIn Sales Navigator and get a sixty-day free trial at linkedin.com/MAYS23.This episode is sponsored by Sleep Number®: Save $400 on the New Sleep Number® c4 smart bed. Plus, special financing for a limited time. Only at Sleep Number® stores or sleepnumber.com. Sleep Number. The Official Sleep and Wellness Partner of the National Football League. See store for details. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show's Prospects to Prospects to Pros. Hello and welcome to Prospects to Pros, sponsored by Invesco QQ, the official ETF of the NCAA. I am your host today, Nate Tice. And joining me, as always, and I'll use that line, is the athletics draft expert and my friend, Mr. Dane Bruegler. How are you doing today, Dane? I hope you don't mind. I call you my friend, but I feel like we are getting out to those terms after maybe an on-air friend at the very least. How you doing today, Dane?

The amount of, I text you more than most of my other friends. So, you know, just our text exchanges alone, I think that qualifies. I'm doing good. You know, we had, you know, just finished with week one NFL, a lot of rookie talk that we'll get to. You know, I know, you're, your head's got to be swimming a little bit with everything that, you know, it's so hard after week one because you have these expectations and then things happen. And it's like you're reacting to it. And so I just so much to take in. The Rogers injury last night as we record this.

You know, he's, it's fair to wonder if we're ever going to see him in the NFL again. You know, these Achilles injuries for a 40-year-old ban are just not quite as simple for maybe younger athletes. So plenty of good through with that. But, you know, for today, I know we're going to focus more on some prospects and some rookies. Yeah, the pro element is in full swing already. And it's just a, I can't believe it was only four plays. felt like there was just so much buildup leading into that. I just feel gutted for the Jets coaches, the Jets fans, everybody, because I just wanted to see it.

Just wanted to see it unfold. I think everybody did that watches the NFL. But again, this is prospects and pros, so we'll hit up both ends on this show especially. But looking at, we're already, you know, diving in. I think we're knee deep, maybe quad deep on the 2024 draft at this point in time in its middle of September right now. But I think the big, big discussion point and a big. kind of theme of this draft is going to be the quarterback draft class. Not only did the top two guys, but the race for QB3, as we put it, and who knows if the top

two shakes up. But at this point in time, I'm feeling pretty good about those top two after watching them play so far this season. But the QB3, it's just, it's a deep, deep class. And I know we talked about this already previously, but I think this is just going to be an updated segment. This is going to be a bit. I think throughout this year where me and Dana are just going to update the tallyboard.

Look what's the leaderboard look like? who had the best showing the previous week because that's how it's going to play out this season and postseason once the draft process starts getting really in full swing. So just start with the QB3 discussion. Dane, who really stood out to you today? I know there's one big matchup that happened between Texas and Alabama and a particular quarterback there. But who really do want to lead off with this QB3 discussion? Yeah, I think we have to start off with Quinn, Quinn yours, Texas quarterback, who, you know, we know the background, five-star recruit, all this pub coming in. he was a millionaire before he actually took his first college pass with NIL.

And so with that, you're going to be an easy target for, you know, criticism if you don't perform on the field. And last year was a little up and down. But I think it's fair to, you know, we talked about this before. He was basically a freshman last year. So coming into this year, going to Tuscaloosa, with all the talent that he has around him. He arguably, I mean, I still think Ohio State has unquestionably the best wide receiver depth chart, in college football. Washington is up there, but Texas is, I mean, close to the top with what they, and we saw

that, but it doesn't work unless Quinn Ewers is dialed in and making some of these throws. And, you know, I wrote about it last week leading up to the game. You know, he was on deep passes on post and go routes. He was completing 21% of his throws in his career at Texas, just not good enough. When he targets Xavier Worthy, he's completing 51% of his throws. It was not good enough up to that point. Saturday night in Tuscaloosa, it was good enough

because he played his best game that we've seen at the college level. Everything was clicking. Yeah, we knew he had the arm, but it was the consistency factor. Could he be in different types of throws, you know, understanding what the defense is doing and then trying to attack them, you know. And I think Sark, Coach Sarkisian, I mean, he knows he had a good game plan going in. No more Bejohn Robinson, so the run game isn't as much of a threat, even though they're still a good running team. But if they're going to win, it's going to be through the air.

And we saw that Adda A. Mitchell was outstanding. He's a guy that we'll be talking about more and more. I mean, he had three catches, but man, did he make them count? He had that nice sideline catch against Koolaid McKinstree, and then two touchdowns. One on a simple slant that he beat Kool-Aid with a nasty release. I think Kool-Aid was expecting that inside help. Safety got sucked up by the backfield action and left just in wide open void for Mitchell.

But then that second touchdown that he had, which is really the dagger that was the exclamation point for Texas in that game, just a beautiful stutter and go. It is rare for how many receivers can make an Alabama corner look slow? I mean, just there's not many guys. Mitchell's one of them. For a guy that's 6-4, to have that type of acceleration, that type of Twitch, it's just, it's rare. It's just, it's very uncommon.

And so the book on him coming out of Georgia because he transferred over the offseason from Athens was, okay, very gifted, but can he be a detailed receiver? Can it be a guy that, you know, Texas game to that next level? And I still, some of those questions still exist in terms of expanding his route tree. but when you're that gifted, you're still going to make an impact because you're just, you're better than a lot of guys you're facing out there on the field.

And then Xavier Worthy, I think, you know, he had that drop early on, but he came back strong. His touchdown was, you know, that moon shot by yours,

who just perfect bucket shot. Moon shot's the right word, too. That thing was dropped literally off a crater on the moon. There's not many times when you watch the tape and you lose the football. It gets off the screen. But that's how it was, but it was perfect. It was.

Credit to worthy because he had to kind of bend his route, track it over shoulders, make that Willie Mays-style catch, and he did it really well. So, you know, he has a speed. He has the tracking skills. You know, consistency's still a question with him. But in the right role,

you can see why he's a weapon as a prospect. So, yeah, I mean, going back to Quinn, I mean, he had an out of the first. outstanding game. And, you know, he, this is why he started the year as my quarterback four. He was 20th overall on my early top 50, which, you know, again, it was based more on potential than production at that point. But, you know, what Saturday, it was a little more of fulfilled production.

And we saw that potential shine through in the box score on the tape in real time. And, you know, it was great, too, just to see just his teammates. after that game. Oh, yeah. That was a lot of fun too. That's cool. As an evaluator, you always love to see with quarterbacks. Say what you will.

It sounds corny, but that is such a real. It's such a real thing. It really is. People will scoff at it, but that matters. I mean, it's something that when scouts go to these campuses and watch practice, I wish fans could listen to the questions that they're asking at coaches. Like, you know, it's, how is he in the locker room? What do his teammates think about them?

Like it's all these questions that are that more those style questions. Is he really for workouts? Is he first in drills? Like, I know that sounds stupid. More so that than, you know, what's his favorite route to throw? Yeah.

It's more, because they can see that stuff on tape. Mm-hmm. They want to find out what is he like behind closed doors? What is he like in the locker room? What kind of worker is he? Yeah. Just all of those things that you don't necessarily see on the tape and on the broadcast

and how the media portrays. him. So for Quinn, it was definitely a night where he helped himself because it's September. It's mid-September. Right or wrong, this game will have more weight than probably any, unless they make the playoffs, any other game that Texas has on the schedule right now. So he certainly helped himself in the NFL draft conversation. He absolutely did. The flashes is why I stayed high on him because his flash throws were as good as anybody. It was, you're going, he was, he's like built to throw trick shots. Just how he throws is just built. It looks like everything's a trick shot. And it was just all about consistency. He doesn't have overwhelming size, overwhelming speed or anything like that. So you got to

win this way. You have to win, be able to throw a little bit off platform from the pocket, from the pocket on time. And he's a merchant and quick game. Like he is just, he is so good getting that ball out, throwing screens and flats and just quickly and get the ball in his playmaker's hands. Yeah, And credit to the offensive line, too, because they kept him upright. You think about the last time we saw him against Alabama last year was on his back. I mean, I had Bryce Young were just getting knocked out the entire game. Zero sacks for Alabama in that game. They had six pressures total.

Six. Last year, Alabama averaged 19.5 pressures per game. And obviously, no more Willing Anderson. Right. But they only had six pressures against that Texas offensive. line. So not only the weapons at receiver, but the offensive line did their job and that that is a big part of it. But getting the ball out quickly. He called a great game. That's a game that from a scheme nerd standpoint, I can't wait to watch as well. Just like study it that way as opposed to just watching Quinn the entire time.

Like actually watching what they're doing because some of the designs and use of motion was really, really cool. But also just his eyes were always going to the right spot, which speaks to both his maturity and also how he's getting coached up. So complimenting him both there. The times that his feet got wonky, it wasn't to me him. And this has been a problem for him in the past. I'm going to this guy, hell or high water. And then he's just his feet at all walkie because he's wonky because he's waiting for that guy to come open and throw it even though he shouldn't. Paul Chris, who ironically is on this coaching staff now.

His great term that I always liked was, listen to your. feet. Let your feet tell you you're late. And that's like, man, I'm ready to throw, but he's not open. There's a couple times his feet got wonky, but it was on the receiver and not him. The receiver was, you know, taking a little too long on the break. And that actually was encouraging. So, you know, there's an explanation for the plays that usually I ding him on, which I think is, which is improvement. So saying even the negatives that he has improved upon, which I think is so good. Also, the tight end, Jatavion Sanders, who I know you're very high on as well. I think he's your tight end two, I believe.

Yeah, only two tight ends made by top 50. Rock Bowers, obviously, and then Sanders. And, yeah, that's a good shout out. Yeah, he looked, he looked great. That's exactly what you want him to be. He's an offensive weapon. Yeah, he's a little undersized, but he can move. And against Alabama, he was really, really moving.

Moving on, anything else on this game, or do you want to just keep on the quarterbacks? Yeah, I mean, let's keep going with the quarterbacks. I think that, I mean, yeah, it is a running bit a little bit, but it's something that We'll be touched on almost every episode because quarterback three is fascinating when you have like, okay, let's just let's frame it this way. How many quarter, assuming Caleb and Drake May are one and two, or two and one, whatever you do. Thank you, Dave. At least you appease me a little bit. You throw me a bone there.

What a how many, okay, what are the realistic names that you think are in this quarterback three conversation? I think it's fair to say, Quinn Evers. Yep. JJ McCarthy, who was my quarterback three coming into this year, and through two games, he has done nothing to hurt himself. Yeah. Again, the disclaimer, it's East Carolina and UNLV. But, you know, he's still completing almost 90% of his passes so far this year. It looks comical sometimes.

It's just like, it looks like seven on seven. And the big thing with JJ is just seeing it quicker, making the on-time throw, and he's done that this year. Everything looks a little more easy for him, which, again, the competition could do that, but another year of maturation can also do that. And also, speaking of J.J. McCarthy in that offense, Roman Wilson is a fun receiver. He's another guy. I did a film room, and another guy included in that film room, he's a little undersized, but man, he's speedy.

He's quick, in and out of his breaks. I like him quite a bit. He's already got five touchdowns this year. So Roman Wilson, a receiver that's a little under underrated in the senior class. But I think his arrow is pointing way up. I mean, he's based on what I've seen so far, he's a top four, top five rounds, belongs somewhere in that mix. So Quinn E.J. McCarthy.

You know, I know. Riley Leonard was my QB3. Yeah, Riley. And I do think he belongs in there. I mean, you and I spoke last week how the Clemson game was, you know, it was fine. but it really wasn't a reason to, you know, push him up. Yeah. Yeah.

And he was, you know, this past, they had a FCS opponent. Then Lafayette, he went 12 for 12. Oh, that's not bad. Yeah, not bad. I'm going to say, I didn't watch the film. I looked at the stat line. I was like, okay, I'm just, that's one. I probably will never check out.

So I will just, I'll just think that 12 for 12 was probably pretty good. But he's at least in that mix. So those three guys, and then I think the fourth is should do. Yeah. A guy that obviously we talked about at length last week. But is there any besides, before we really dive into more on Chatur, is there anybody else besides those four you think is a realistic candidate for quarterback three at this point? At this point, no, but there's ones that I'm, the stock is ascending. And I think there is Tower Van Dyke from Miami, which I think we'll talk about a moment.

Someone I was high on two years ago and then kind of really cooled on him. Miami's offense was, I just thought, not conducive for his skill set because he's so long and everything. But we can talk about him a sec because against Texas A&M, though, he looked great. And then I look back to the original Miami Squared game, Miami versus Miami game, and he looked good there too. And all the things I saw in the first A&M game and then going back to watch a Miami game, it's like, okay, this is, this is consistent no matter to who the opponent is. So that was pretty cool. I think we'll talk about him in a sec, but I do want to talk about Shudor because talk about the QB3 discussion. And even Mel Kuyper from ESPN said today that he right now is a guaranteed high first round pick in his QB3 for this next upcoming class, which again, like we said, there's a lot of candidates.

So to have just that definitive statement, it is interesting coming from someone like Mel Kiper. So let's talk about Sanders because I know I think we have some mutual feelings on how that second game went against Nebraska. So let's just kind of talk about how he looked, because I thought it was very interesting, good and bad ways. Yeah, you know, there are two or three draft analysts, you know, in this industry that when they say something about a player, I pay attention. And Mel Kuiper is one of those guys. The OG, the original guy. Yes. And, you know what, Mel is part showman.

So, you know, like, he's making head. The only reason to use a word, like, guarantee about a prospect in September is for headlines. And obviously we're talking about it. So, you know, it's, it worked. But, I mean, Mel Kuiper is doing that for a reason. We won't pull up the Jimmy Clausen guarantee. But yeah, or the Mike Williams. Oh, yeah, that's right.

Mike Williams. Yeah, I remember that. I remember that draft because it was Mike Williams was the number one player. And it was just like, as other guys were going. And they just like, right. It's like, why is this guy still around? I think he only went like 10th or whatever. But still, yeah, I remember that draft.

It didn't quite work out. But, yeah, it's, you know, it's, it's something that, because the exact quote was what? He's a guaranteed high first round pick, or he would be guaranteed be the number one. To me right now is a guaranteed. Shadir Sanders to me right now is a guaranteed high first round pick. Khyper Jr. also said Shadur would be a guaranteed number one overall pick in the 2025 draft

if he chose to stay with the buffs for a second season. That is a statement. That's a big statement. Yeah. And look, I get it. We talked about it last week. I mean, and I wrote about it on the athletic after that game against TCU was this tape is his formal application to be considered for quarterback three. Like, there's a lot of good things on here.

You see. Get some references on there. Yeah. Good enough velocity. You see accuracy. You see touch. You see mobility. He can be creative, but he doesn't necessarily rely on it too much.

He can change platforms. You know, there's a lot to like there. You know, the mechanics aren't great, but I don't care. I think mechanics are overrated for a quarterback. Yeah, if the ball gets there on time and it's, and it's accurate, I don't care. I mean, look at Quinn Ewers. I would never teach you anyone to throw like Quinn Ewers. But it's just, who cares?

Ball's there on time. From the feet on up. Yeah, exactly. But against Nebraska, a better defense than TCU, I do think there were a few things that maybe stuck out as, okay, yeah, this guy. it still's got a ways to go in terms of reading the field and anticipating things like that. I mean, I know you watched it. Would you see?

Yeah, the Nebraska got a great game plan. First off, by credit to their coaches, was a lot of drop eight. So scheme-wise, and you could see, because Colorado leaned into, especially against TCU and early on Nebraska, it was a lot of quick game. And how does really limit quick games to drop eight? Flood the passing lanes. It's like trying to stop a driving team, just run a two-three zone. in basketball. So that's what they did. And they're making him make quick decisions because that makes you go one to two really quickly. It's a quick game. You have to operate quickly. Ask Aaron Rogers.

So when we see like how this kind of, how that kind of broke out, the other thing that they did was they started blitzing him whenever they got into an empty formation, which against TCU, that was putting Travis Hunter on an island. They were just picking apart TCU's defense out of empty. So what Nebraska was making him do is like you have to make the right decision right away and he wasn't and i i think that's right there in the NFL you have to do that every play this was just a good kind of little snapshot of like that what they want to major in what colorado likes to do when they pass the ball they already got taken away they made it harder on him and he didn't always have the answers also some of the the kind of some of his awareness and decision making kind of surprised me like uh you know taking

sacks and field goal range and everything but again this is not a guy that's had a lot of big game starts. Yes, he has draft eligible, but he did come from FCS in Jackson State. And again, he was a big recruit and he had some pedigree as a recruit and he's Dion Sanders' son. But you could just see that this guy needs reps. He needs time. He needs ways to get to one to two to three or to shortcut reads. And that's fine. But you do see some ball placement. Throwing on the move is really nice. And you can see when he's confident with the throw, he, boom, he gets it out, puts it on the money. But you can just see some of the blemishes and some of maybe him's progress. when he gets kind of a little dumbfounded a little bit.

Right. Yeah. And that's fair. And it should have be surprising. No. This is a guy that is still, you know, he's a true junior. Like you said, coming from the FCS level, there's things he just hasn't seen yet. And things that he has to work through on the fly.

But that's, that's to be expected. And, you know, I. Two games. We've got a long way to go for him. And, you know, I, we've got Oregon and USC coming up on the schedule. Oregon, you know, they just gave up 30 plus at Texas Tech on defense, but that Oregon defense might be

one of the better defenses that Colorado sees all year, which isn't saying much, but it's at least something I want to see because, you know, Nebraska, like you said, the game plan was great, but I don't know how many pros they have on defense for that team. TCU, certainly, that they might be the worst defense that Colorado sees all year.

So seeing him, and then against USC, USC has a better defense in last year, but it's still not great. Right. But we know Caleb's going to put up points. And so, you know, trading haymakers. Yeah, exactly. Right. How does that, how does that play out? That's a great point, though, just like it's perfect because Oregon's a better defense, but maybe not an elite one.

So it's like, okay, how do you answer against a good defense? And then USC is, I think, a perfect game for him to watch because I feel like it's, I like when they're kind of balanced as far as like one opponent. against the opponent, they're kind of similar ranking-wise. Okay, that's a solid defense, decent defense, but it has wholly against a solid offense that doesn't, that's not perfect. I think that's kind of like a fair matchup. Sorry to cut you off, but that's a great point to make. No, and I think it's one thing that I've been probably the most impressed with is just

his poise. You know, when you think about all the headlines, you think about all the attention on him, game day's going to Boulder this weekend, and they're playing Colorado State. You know, it's not this big matchup. necessarily on paper. But he's the main attraction. And aside from his dad. So it will be interesting to see just how he handles it throughout the year.

There will be some rough spots. But long story short, he's absolutely in that conversation for quarterback three. If the draft war tomorrow, yeah, I do think there would be several teams that would have him as quarterback three. I don't think it would be consensus. But I do think that there's a good chance a lot of teams would look at the package of traits and say, yeah, we want to work with that. Not just for who he is now, but what he's going to be, six months from that, and a year from now.

And, you know, the rest of his rookie contract. So certainly understand the optimism with him. But, yeah, I mean, I think that when we talk about these potential quarterback threes, those four, we'll talk about Tyler Van Dyke. One other dark horse I want to mention is there's definitely some love for Spencer Rattler, South Carolina, among scouts, because he's played well this year. Yeah, there's, you know, the North Carolina tape

didn't really work out that great for South Carolina, but he had, he's dealing with bad protection. I counted three or four drops in that game, but Rattler was still playing, playing tough through the end. So he's helped himself through two games, Spencer Rattler.

And the second half of last year, that's that's a stick in his mind because he has calmed down so much. And if he continues to do that, it's going to be some, and the biggest thing. You can't teach what, you can't teach his his arm talent. You just can't.

Yeah, exactly. Just pure ability. You know, he's got some movement to him. He's got the ability to throw from different platforms with ease. There's a lot there to like. And I mean, there's a reason we were talking about him as a potential top 10 pick not too long ago. You know, the character stuff will be something we have to work through.

But it's something that I don't think is as much of a concern now as it was two years ago. I do think that there's, there's an. element of him showing maturity that scouts have been optimistic about. So not saying he should be in that top tier of quarterback three candidates, but he's at least a dark horse with a Van Dyke, maybe with the Boe Nix as a guy that, hey, don't forget about him because there are some love on the streets in the scouting streets for a guy like this. I get it.

I think he has a throw at least every once in a while. once a month that you're just like, holy crap. Like that, it's it. It's an S-tier throw that you can't teach. It's kind of crazy. Like, you think about... I feel like he's been in my life forever. I know, right?

I feel like I'm talking about Spencer Rattler for so long and he's still around. You think about the, we've seen, what, six quarterbacks going to the first round once. That was the 1983, that legendary draft. Yeah. That's only, it's only happened once. even five quarterbacks is pretty rare. But, I mean, looking at it right now, obviously the teams matter. You know, who's going to be looking for a quarterback after this year?

But, I mean, we're going to see it. I feel confident saying at least four. Yeah. With a realistic chance at five. And then an outside chance of maybe even six. You know, we just said that there's maybe four guys in that quarterback three conversation. So those four plus the top two, that's six right there. It'll be really interesting to see how this continues to play out because, you know, these quarterback, this is a rich quarterback draft.

It's, there's so many guys. The lot of underclassmen that we're talking about, you know, they have to declare, obviously. You know, it's declaring now is a little different than before with NIL and like a guy like Shadur. Think about the money he could make if he wants to stay and, you know, play for Pops one more year. If you wanted to go that route. if he's not the, you know, guaranteed first round pick in six months from now. So, yeah, it'll be a really interesting conversation with some of these

quarterbacks. And there's so many fun like day two and day three guys. That's what Dan's saying too is that like, you know, there might be four or five, six in the first round, but it's also deep. There's so many interesting guys. I mean, I'm watching freaking Hawaii tape to watch the Shager. Like, because he's interesting.

Anybody has a day three guy. And Hardison, Gavin Hardison, who we talked. about a couple weeks from utep, but that dude can wing it. And that's like an NFL arm. That's what we keep saying. But these are interesting day three guys. And then Kansas. Got like Jalen Daniels.

Daniels from Kansas. Watching him against Illinois. Like, I mean, Jerzon Newton is just bearing down on him and oh, he just makes a miss. That's a goal line. And watch if he creates a play. It's on the move. Yeah.

He's undersized. He'll be under six foot. Yep. Probably around 2, 12. A really good athlete, good enough arm. I mean, he's got playmaking potential there. And they love him. They love him there.

So that's another thing. Cam Ward, when he did your badgers. Oh, my God. You know, he's a guy that some teams really like. And Joe Milton, people can't quit Joe Milton because of that arm. There's still so many questions he has to answer as a quarterback. When you have a special arm, like he does, guess what? You're going to get chance after chance of chance to go see what you can do.

I know. Oh, my God. There's Sam Hartman. I know. We could just spend like 40 minutes just listing off guys. I do want to talk about Tower Van Dyke for Miami because I, again, what a difference a year makes. Oh, my goodness.

He just real quick, I'll just give my little note. Everything looks tighter with him. He's such a long-limbed guy. I can relate. I'm very long as, even as a tall guy of a long wing span. I picked the worst position to play with my, like, body type. It's like no matter. My dad and my uncle play tight end. Makes a lot of sense. But like him and Tanner McKee, when they were, I first scouted them a couple years ago,

Tanner McKee's with the Eagles now from Stanford. They're just so long. And the release always kind of felt elongated. And when you're not kind of twitchy like a Trevor Lawrence is, it kind of can just really like, oh, man, you're just, it's decent arm, but like, oh, you feel like just a step late or there's just too much that can unravel here. Everything just looked sped up. His footwork looked great. He played balanced. His motion looked tighter. Still a little long, but tight. And I was super impressed. I want to kind of hear what your thoughts are, but I'm, I'm very bullish on Van Dyck. Again, I'm rebuying the stock I sold because I really liked what I saw against Texas A&M and in the Miami game earlier in the year, the Miami Squared game, Miami versus

Miami. I really liked what I saw. So I kind of want to hear what you think as well with Van Dyke. Yeah, do offense coordinator? Shannon Dawson. The biggest thing is... Third OCE in three years. That's for Van Dyke, which is somebody got a note. He just looks more poised. He just better command of the offense than a year ago.

I think the revamped offensive line, that has a lot to do with it. You know, like bringing in Javian Cohen at guard, Lee at center. Because Van Dyke's not a top-tier athlete. You know, he's a guy that wants to win from the pocket. And that's what we saw against A&M on Sunday or on Saturday. We saw a guy who was a lot more confident back there. Because I think he was trusting the blocking in front of him. And A&M, they were running a lot of zone and just rushing four.

And Van Dyke's like, all right, sure, let's do it. Yeah, he did. And going back to last year, he had one of the lowest completion percentages when pressure. It was like 37, 38%, something like that. This year, it's closer to 60 so far. his third down percentage much better. And I think it just comes from understanding protections, better trusting that protection,

and having that confidence really carry over and manifest itself in your throws down the field and your reeds down the field. So I think with Van Dyke, so far so good. He's off to a really good start. It's just good to see Miami. With a lot of talent they have,

making some plays. And on defense, you know, they've got some guys that were showing out. So, yeah, that was fun to see. I don't, you know, Van Dyke's a guy that still needs to do more just to get into that, you know, conversation as a, you know, top 100 or, you know, someone that you consider a day two guy. But through two games, he certainly helped himself. Absolutely. That's kind of where I'm at with him.

And just he's never been, like the offense two years ago was so frustrating because it was all downfield or screens. And then they would throw downfield not have a checkdown off. option for him. So he was just thrown, it was either 40-yard go-ball or create, which is not a way to live. That's why the offense coordinator was not there anymore. And it also was just, it's nice seeing him progress and throw guys open. Like he was throwing curl routes and placing the ball. So like what you're saying, confidence. I mean, in life, confidence is such a huge thing, but especially at the quarterback position where these guys can just throw on time. Like he's never, you're never to be fearful about him being a big game hunter, which you saw and tacking down the field.

but it's nice seeing a little more nuance and maybe some creativity with his throws. And yeah, like you say, he's not overwhelming athlete. I kept saying he's long. I used to call him the ibis because he's built like a stork. So he would place for Miami. Let's go with the ibis. But him just like he threw a screen where he changed arm angles. And I was like, okay, he looks like a football player as opposed to maybe a robot that he

looked like in the past. So really, really fun QB class and a lot of guys standing up. Let's go to the top. We keep talking about QB3. maybe let's go with a lot of people's QB1. Do you want to do a little Caleb Williams watch real quick and just he's my he's my QB1B

I'll be honest still with Drake May but let's let's talk about Caleb Williams because he has done nothing I think to dissuade anybody up from looking at him as such a highly tout of prospect and what have you seen so far with Caleb Williams this year, Dane? He's been as expected

I mean he's just so good I know Stanford is really full on off but watching him against Stanford over the weekend was just, it was a joke. He, his, like, adjusted completion percentage was 95%. So this guy has been spot on. When Stanford would drop eight and Caleb would just pick him apart because you're not getting a pass rush when they do pressure him. That's the difference between Sanders and Caleb Williams right here, but sorry, sorry to get you off.

No, Williams just has more answers to the test. He does. And he was another guy in my film room. I posted one of his clips where, you know, they're at the 15-yard line. They run an RPO. He reads it. And he throws a falling backwards, flat-footed, just kind of his momentum, taking him backwards, throws, just gets enough torque on his throw to get the ball on point to the slant.

I mean, just a ridiculous talent with that, with the arm that he has. the processing that he has, the instincts that he has. He's a much better runner with the football that I think people give him credit for. Like he's, you know, he's a, he's a legitimate dual threat guy if he wants to be. So it's just how effortless everything is with him. So again, we could make the same statement with him as we had, you know, with J.J. McCarthy, you know, in terms of competition, they've played San Jose State, Nevada, and Stanford. So, you know, these defenses aren't anything to get excited about, but we're talking about him as being the clear cut number one overall.

Right. You want to see dominance. You want to see him live up to that. And so far, he absolutely has. Yeah, you want to see dominance. If they're playing inferior competition, make them look like inferior competition. That's a huge thing. They have to look like the dude.

It's a real thing. I know it sounds like intangible, but it's a real thing. That guy better look like the best player on the field. And he does. Well, I don't know about maybe that freshman returner receiver that they have. Doesn't hurt. That doesn't hurt as well. Right.

I know we'll probably talk about him in two years from now. But holy crap, that guy too. Look, quarterback is one of the most frustrating positions to scout college to the NFL. Yes. Because in the big, and this is just my opinion, the number one reason is it is so hard to account for the jump in place. between what these guys see and process in college compared to the NFL. This is, in my opinion, this is what's holding Justin Fields back. This is why, you know, like he's so methodical with his process and what he's doing.

Even his drops, like he's just too methodical. And that you just can't be. You've got to be faster. Yes. And, you know, he tries to be too perfect. And it's like, you got to play. You got to play. He's this ridiculous athlete.

It's just amazing. But in terms of. being more deliberate and more quick with what you're doing, it's not there for him yet. And entering year three, it's still a problem for him. Zach Wilson, the game just moves way too fast.

Way too fast. You know, and these are the problems with these young quarterbacks that don't make it. And when you're watched, so when you scout these guys in college, you try to account for that. And it's hard because there's just no accounting for NFL speed. Now, that's why Quinn Ewer is doing what he did against an Alabama defense.

Right. You know, half of that, more than half of that Alabama defense will be playing on Sundays in some shape or form. So, you know, that makes you feel better about the evaluation. But, you know, with Caleb Williams, he does, the quick reaction plays that he has, that's why I'm so, you know, optimistic about his transition. because everything is so lightning quick with his decision making, his ability to get the ball up and gone. I mean, he will make, I've never seen a quarterback make as many sidearm throws

and just change the arm angle with ease than he does. But he has an instinct. The receiver screen, yeah, against Stanford. He's fallen. You were just about to say instinct before I cut you off. That's exactly it. It's a receiver screen, but he knows that there's a free runner coming at him.

So he works away from him. awareness and then it's just oh trick shot it throw it like freaking submarine style to his receiver and it it be and it's a perfect spiral with velocity it's yeah it's it's it's all quick reaction like just having that uh that in his brain that he understands what the defense is doing and he knows what he needs to do to account for that so uh with a guy like Caleb Williams I just feel a little bit better about him adjusting the NFL speed because of his play style and that quick reaction arm talent that he has. So, you know, again, it's the hardest part.

That's why there's no such thing as a, quote unquote, sure thing, a quarterback transitioning. Because, again, that jump in college speed to NFL speed is something you really can't account for on tape. And that's the gap. That's the projection you're making. And, you know, it's something we've seen a lot of young quarterback struggle with. But a guy like Caleb Williams, I think we see enough on the tape that you can. can feel really optimistic about him making that jump. And also just his body size, because he's not the biggest guy, but he's thick.

Like, he has that thick lower body. And when you were talking about his running ability, that's, his contact balances all is, is like what his strength is as a runner. It's just like, like, it's, you know, he just bounces off guys. It's kind of crazy about how, like, how he can just keep his feet and keep moving forward. So, yeah, he's not Kyler or even Justin Fields or these guys that run up for, you know, four something, low four something. but he's still a good athlete who can be a plus runner,

which is all he needs to do because he can operate from the pocket. I've been very impressed. I do want to see some tougher competition, but even just the two games I watched on All 22, it was there was not, there's sometimes I want him to hang in the pocket to progress a little bit and he's gotten better at that, but it's still like he hasn't made a bad decision if that makes sense.

There's a couple times he didn't, maybe didn't find the answer that was there, but it didn't turn into a bad play. Or that there wasn't, something there and then he didn't try to make too much happen. Yes, the competition lets you get away with some of that, but there hasn't been anything where I'm like, it's been more like, yeah, he has answers. You said he has the answers to the test. These guys all have to find ways to win, and he just, he has ways to win different ones. And a lot of them are ones that translate,

which is operating from the pocket. And some of that is, you know, Lincoln Riley just scheming up the right plays at the right time. But Caleb is just a perfect vehicle to, you know, actually make those plays come to life. So it is, it is fun to watch. He's a great muse for him. That's, that's, perfect. Yeah, no, he really is. Well, you were just mentioning, like, half the Alabama's defense is probably going to be playing on NFL Sundays, which is, I feel like we can talk about, say that, which year of Alabama defense where we could say that. But we've talked about a lot of quarterbacks, a lot of offensive guys. The defensive side of the ball, I think not just us, but this is going to be very offensive heavy draft, at least early on, especially in the top 10. But any defense

of players that have stood out to you so far in the first month of college football. Anyone that are kind of maybe playing the flag or someone that you is really shining for you, Dane. I know you've highlighted a couple guys in the pre-draft or the pre-season process, but anyone that's kind of anointed or really like confirmed what you saw in the summer. One of my favorite players in this draft class is going to be Cooper DeGine. He is the best all around defensive back in the country in college football. From Iowa, by the way.

Not Alabama, not Clemson. Iowa corner slash safety slash nickel slash whatever you want to call him. No, they do an offensive weapon. He's defensive weapon. He is. That's what he is. Against Iowa State, he showed that. He was primarily an outside corner, but they would line him up in a slot against a tight end,

which he just smothered the tight end. He's the best tackling. defensive back that I've scouted in this draft cycle so far this year. He led all tacklers or led the team of tackles against Iowa State. And then he also plays special teams. Watch him as a gunner. Check out my film piece on the athletic. I will.

He as a gunner, his speed to get down the field and then the awareness to kind of gear down, slow up, wait for that punt to come down and then just make a textbook tackle. It's fun. He's also the primary punt returner for the Hawkeyes. So he does a little bit of everything because he's the best guy in that locker room and everybody knows it. He has that there's just a certain instinct to how he plays that he understands. He's the most reliable guy. And coaches understand that.

So they put him in positioned for him just to go make plays. And you kind of said, like on offense, you know, you want to get your best player the ball. that's kind of with Dejean. The Hawkeyes, they want to get him in position to go make plays on the ball. And so far they've done that through two games. He's outstead. This is what a first-round pick looks like. That's awesome.

Yeah, the best player on the field eyedist. That's what you want to see. I'm really excited to watch him, especially you just say Gunner. And I love what the top players are on teams, not just returners. Usually we talk about as returners, but just hearing guys run down the field. That's why Jameson Williams was so much fun in college, watching him as a gunner as well and just mowing down guys. Fonte Smith. Yes.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. And D'Shine, he's not like in that Travis Hunter territory of, you know, snaps. But in two games, he's played 165 snaps. That's a lot. That's a lot. Yeah. He is a guy that the coaches really rely on to go out there and make plays.

And he's lived up to it so far. So, yeah, I love this kid. Any edge players have stood out? I know there's not real. Yeah, it's funny because we've talked. talked about this, right? Like how maybe underwhelming this edge class has been. We talk about the receiver two race, the QB3 race.

It's kind of the edge one through five race. It's just to figure out who anyone's going to step up this year. And how early are they going to go? Yeah. Like a guy like Jared Verse from Florida State, like he just, I like, I like his explosiveness. I like the power that he plays with, the way he can incorporate his hands. I want more splash from him through two games. We haven't seen it.

Dallas Turner, they don't let him rush more. You want to see him rush more. They just don't let him. I mean, he's playing some plays against the run in that Texas game that were really impressive. That really stood out. I mean, go back to my top 50, there were eight edge rushers in there.

Honestly, of the eight, I think only Latu from UCLA has lived up to that, which, you know, is all. obviously. And we've ever really talked about him yet. So yeah. Yeah, right. Leotu Latu from UCLA, a little bit of a complicated evaluation because of his medical background. But he's fun on the field because he can he's got a diverse rush plan. He can win in different ways. You know, there's some areas of in a run game where he needs to get better. But as a pass rusher, the way that he can use that reach, the timing, the hands, there's a lot to like there. If you're

unfamiliar with his background. Basically, so he was a four-star recruit, you know, a guy that there's a lot of promise there at Washington. Back in 2020, like in the middle of the pandemic, that season, he got hurt at practice as a neck injury. He saw a bunch of specialists. He had numbness. He had surgery. And they said you have to medically retire. And so in the spring of 2021, he officially retired. He stayed close to the team and was basically like a, you know, just a GA. And then after that 2021 season, he's like, I'm just, I'm not given up. You know, I want to, I want to get back out there. But Washington would not clear him.

So he transfers to UCLA back in the offseason after the 2021 season, able to get cleared at UCLA. And last year, he didn't even start a game. He came off the bench, but he was outstanding, getting after the quarterback, comes back for a senior year. and he stayed healthy all of last year. This year, so far, so good. He was, it was lights out in that opener against Coast of Carolina.

They couldn't block him. It was, it was embarrassing. But he is, he's really productive. And, you know, he's, but coming back to that medical stuff, that that's going to be something we talk about between now and the draft is how much is that play a factor and where he's going to be drafted. I mean, he started in my top 50 at, let me see, 23. So, I mean, up there.

But the medical questions will continue to linger until we get maybe some more official info from teams after the combine. Hey, Jalen Phillips went 18th overall. It's uncanny how similar it is. With UCLA as well involved. I know it's kind of flipped. But yeah, but still it's like, yeah, that's kind of where my mind went to. Jalen Phillips had to medically retire. And you're thinking, okay, well, you know, just cross them off my board, move on.

and then he resurfaces at Miami and turns himself into a first round pick. And so far, I mean, you think about there. There are a lot of pass rushers that went first round that year. That was what, Quitty Pay and Rousseau and Tryon. There are a bunch of pass rushers in that mix. But Phillips has been the best of that group so far. Yeah, of the non-micah Parsons division. But no, it's because he doesn't need.

He doesn't count. But yeah, no, but it's, yeah, but of that group, I mean, he's a really anointed itself. He had a great year last year. And, like, we did a top 10 edge discussion, me, uh, Stephen Ruiz from the ringer and Seth Galena from PFF. And he, like, we all three of us were like, well, the question was, who's the guy that could crack this list next year?

And his name came up. All three of us mentioned them. So no, it's a great. It's a very, uh, similar kind of, that's where my mind went. I heard medical injury history retired UCLA. And I was like, hey, I know this story. No, but that's a great shot. It does seem to me a lot of these edges are more useful players than maybe the bendy, twitchy edges that look like they're going to get a dozen sacks.

You know, there's Chop Robinson's interesting. But it just seems like a lot more of those useful types, those kind of run first stoppers, complimentary rusher types. At least at this point in time, you don't know who shows up as a season knows a lock. That's the thing because it's, again, the number one rule of scouting is traits over production. I don't care what production you have. Show me the trade. Show me what you can do. But at the same time, you still want to see some of those plays being made.

Chop Robinson, I have yet to see him really make a standout play rushing a passers so far through two games. He barely played against Delaware. But same thing with JT. 2Malalu from Ohio State. I just want to see it. It's something that we know they have the ability. But in terms of separating yourself being a top 10, top 15 guy, you still want to be able to point to the tape and say, this is why. You know, it's great that he's got the traits. It's great that, you know, potential on what he could be.

But still, I want you to convince me with the tape. And so far, you know, besides a lot, too, I don't know that any of these edge rushers have really done that in terms of standing out with just what they've done on the field so far. Yeah. You want, you want to say point out a two-minute drill where the other team. couldn't block them for three straight plays and blow up the drive. Take it over. Take it over. That's what you're drafted to do.

You're supposed to be the closer. That is why you get drafted high if you're an edge guy. Yes, it's nice to be useful against the run and everything, but you've got to have some juice. Right, exactly. And a guy like Dallas Turner, I think he's got the juices. They don't let them, you know, just that style of defense. That's what they do. He doesn't get a ton of.

Slaying them inside and having the slot blitz. And that's what they like to do. That's what they do. He doesn't get as many pin your ears. back, just, you know, beat this guy one-on-one. So, yeah, it's one other defense player, I want to mention, too, Cameron Kitchens from Miami. Yeah.

You know, one of only two safeties that made my initial top 50. He had a great game. And we talked about the A&M game with Van Dyke, Kitchens. I mean, he was, he was great. In the third quarter alone, he had an interception, he had a near second interception, and then had a fumble recovery. He was all over the place. They could finish with seven tackles.

Unfortunately, he had to be carded off in the first. the fourth quarter after he collided with a receiver trying to make a tackle attempt. Good news is Mario Cristobal said he's in quote unquote good shape, which is, which is good. No news about when he's going to be able to return to the field. But good news regardless that it sounds like he's doing well because, you know, he's, he's an outstanding talent and, you know, a guy that in this safety, we haven't seen a lot of no doubt about it safety's the last few years. This guy could be that.

He at least got that has that potential. Okay, no, that's good to know. I know the defensive tackle there, like, I kind of watched it was a little bit. I was waiting for him to affect the game a little bit more. Yeah, Leonard Taylor. I was waiting for him to affect the game a little bit more. But again, it was just a breeze through all 22. And again, it's early to season.

That's the thing about defense aligned. Some games can be very frustrating watching them. But speaking of standouts, let's get maybe to the pros part of prospects to pros. And then talk about some week one rookie standouts. Dane, on the offensive side of ball, were there any NFL rookies in week one that stood out to use so far? We're one weekend, but who stood out for you on that first four days of action? Well, I mean, who saw the Pooka Nakuwa? Fuku-Nakua, right?

14 targets, 10 catches, 119 yards. We talked about it a few weeks ago, right? It was the category was, what, non-first-round rookie who could surprise. And, I mean, he's a guy we talked about. I don't think any of us saw this coming in week one. No. But, you know, based on film study at BYU, put a third round grade on him, athletic, he's tough. He's a savvy player.

The big question was just health. He couldn't stay on the field. Could he stay on the field the NFL? I don't know. Well, time will tell, but he stayed on the field in week one. And I mean, you could say he was the top offensive rookie that we saw so far. But I don't know. What about for you?

Anybody that stood out? Yeah, Pugatakua. I think he was also like the most targeted rookie in week. week one ever or something like that, which is just, yeah, he, he looked, he looked like, you actually was like, wow, you looked like your fourth year pro, not a rookie start in your first game. Like, he's blocking everything. So, um, Zay Flowers had a nice game, uh, the Ravens, uh, wide receiver.

Um, look, I know we haven't, like, the Ravens haven't had that receiver, I know, but I was still kind of shocked, uh, to find out, because I, going back doing the research, over the last 25 years, the Ravens are the only team in the NFL who have not had a wide receiver go 1,200 yards in a season or more. I, and you think about it, when you think about it, it's not surprising. Yeah. But then you, but you think about it and look, this is a team that is, or an organization that has been competitive over those 25 years.

It's just surprising that, you know, Derek Mason didn't get in there, Tori Smith or, you know, one of these guys didn't, even with like a, like, Joe Flacco throwing the football, like one of these receivers. Like career Steve Smith. Yeah, exactly. Right. So I was, I was pretty surprised to find that out. But Zay Flowers, I mean, to your point, he could, he's on pace to be that guy this year,

especially with that target share that they're going to give him. They're feeding them. Oh, my goodness. That's, that's it. I mean, you're only, a guy like Zay Flowers can be as good as his volume. I don't know. If you, you give him those targets, those catch and run opportunities, you know, he could easily average 80 receiving yards a game. Yeah.

That's not out of the realm of possibility for him in year one. So that's, you know, we'll see, you know, with J.K. Dobby. going down, you know, how they'll change things up. And Mark Andrews didn't play in that first game. So that'll eat into the target share a little bit. But still, yeah, good showing for Zay in week one. And another Rams rookie actually stood out with their second round pick. Steve Avila.

Yeah, no. Yeah, he had a nice, come home. Rams old line had a nice game. He did too. I thought him and Skoronski were the two offensive linemen that I thought played with both at left guard. And then Chandler and Zavala and Carolina. A guy that, you know, you're watching Carolina for Bryce Young, but it was Zavala who, he was my highest-graded non-combine prospect.

Okay. And he played pretty well. Our buddy, Brandon Thor, tweeted out a few clips that kind of helped show what Zavala did. So that was good to see. And then, Jamir Gibbs, I know fantasy football owners were a little unhappy with his touches, but he still, he led all rookies. It's so expensive. And then he just, he looks so good with the ball in his hands. Like he was, he was running with power.

Like he was bouncing off tackles. Like he was, you know, he's a guy that I'm still, I'm all in on Chimeric Gibbs, even though I know some frustrated fantasy football owners out there. Yeah, it's not his own fault. It's just how they're going to use them. All of those lines, Rickies look good. Leporter had some nice moments. They're using them intelligently as a blocker.

Yeah. He looked good. He was pulling. He had a great pull. He had a great pull that he was, knocked the guy. He's tough as hell. It's just that he's not big.

That's it. And he's smart. It's just, yeah, it's not his own fault. But he's going to go to the right guy. He's going to try him. He's pop him. On the defensive side of the ball, including Brian Branch,

one of those lines rookies. I liked him. He had nice outside the pick six. I think we're both high on him. So I want to throw that in there too. But any defensive rookies that's done to you in week one. Yeah. And Branch was my dark horse last week for defensive rookie of the year because I think he's

going to get the intercept. numbers like that. I think he'll get the tackle numbers. So, and yeah, so far so good. I mean, Jaylon Carter. Yeah. As advertised, I know the Patriots' offensive line on the interior is a little in flux right now. But still, he's, he doesn't only lead all rookies in pressures through week one.

He's tied for the NFL lead with eight pressures. So this guy is a problem. And that will continue to be the fact. So Ivan Pace for the Vikings, I thought he had a good game. not the result they wanted for Minnesota, but for an undrafted rookie to play, the way he's been playing has been, you know, awesome to see, although not that huge of a surprise,

anybody that watched him at Cincinnati. And then, you know, Will Anderson, I thought he, for how you would expect the first defensive player drafted, how you would expect him to play, I thought he looked pretty good in week one for the Texans. Yeah, it's nice to see him go from that Bama defense that we just talked about with Dallas Turner

to actually see him just get to tee off. and just pin those ears back. He had a good preseason. Yeah, he looks exactly as advertised. No, Jaylon Carter, like you said, he looked dominant. Again, you want the dominant players. Yeah, oh, he's going against a rookie. Make him look like a fifth round rookie then.

That's the thing. It's like, we can say that all we want, but they got to do it. And so he did it. So that's good. That's a check in his box. It is first ever NFL action. So this is a guy that has special ability. And as long as he's on the field,

he's going to keep creating disruption. Yep. And another guy that didn't play a ton of ton of snaps, but was very productive, was Keanu Benton, who I know we both like. But his very first snap, it was,

I think it was the second or third drive for the Steelers, or it was 49ers, but Steelers defense. And it was a pass rush, and he just tossed the center. They lined up up, but nose a good amount, like head up nose,

and he was just shredding the center. Like, he had some really good pass rushing snaps. I have only watched the first, half of that game on all 22, but I do recall some Rump snaps when I was watching on TV as well. But he, he had a great preseason. I, of course, like him, even outside my Badger love, but he, he had a really nice first game, at least as a rookie. And they're going to need him with Hayward out now for however long he's out on that

defensive line. They're going to need Benton to grow up quick and make an impact. Absolutely. Well, I think that does it for today. That was a nice, that was great. talking about some QB3 discussions, which we will probably continue next week as well. Something tells me we'll revisit here maybe in a week.

Yeah, there's finally getting to maybe some more conference play as well. That'll be great. But we'll just keep talking. The updated discussions, defensive players, the standout. We'll probably get some offensive line soon. But just as more tape comes in, there's more things to talk about. The NFL season keeps rolling.

The college football season keeps rolling. And prospects of pros will keep rolling along. So we will see you guys next Wednesday. Thank you for tuning in. See you guys then. This was the Athletic Football Show's prospects to pros podcast.