The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Prospects to Pros: Wading through underclassmen draft declarations and the transfer portal

Episode Date: December 13, 2023

It's the middle of December, the time when seemingly countless college football players are on the move. Some of those players are headed to the draft. Others are headed to new programs, via the transfer portal. Nate Tice and Dane Brugler dig into both groups of players on this episode of The Athletic Football Show's Prospects to Pros.Follow Nate on Twitter: @Nate_TiceFollow Dane on Twitter: @dpbruglerSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTube Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show's prospects to pros. Hello and welcome to Prospects of Prosonsored by Invesco QQQ, the official ETF of the NCAA. I am your host, Nate Tice. We are doing early declares and transfer portals today. Just checking in, seeing some names that were dropped. There was, of course, one at the very top that we will start with. But this is what December does best. This is this type of part of the calendar.

Oh, that guy's transferring? Oh, that guy's declaring? Maybe he should go back. But it's going to be pretty interesting to talk about these movers and shakers. So to help me do that is the athletics draft expert, Dane Bruegler. How are you doing today, Dane? I'm good. I'm good.

It's funny with college football changing, you know, every year it seems like. You know, every offseason looks a little different. This year, transfer portal. And the underclassman deadlines a little different this year with the All-Star games. And next year will be even more different when we have the playoff, which is going to start the week before Christmas. You know, like it's that first round. So at this point next year, while right now it kind of feels dead a little bit,

at this point next year, it'll be ramping up and talking about all the deadline or all the matchups. And so it'll be every year we're going to see some type of evolution, it seems like, when it comes to college football. And next year will be particularly interesting. But yeah, this year with these underclassmen, a new timeline this year. Usually the deadline for underclassmen to declare is always a week after the national title game, it's usually around January 15th. This year, they're doing a soft deadline for underclassmen. That's going to be January 5th.

And that's basically, if you want to be in an all-star game, basically declared by the 5th. And then on January 9th, an underclassman list will be sent to all the NFL teams. you know, I'll get my hands on it and we'll, you know, share it with everybody. But that's when, and then not until January 9th is when a shrine game, Shrine Bowl, Senior Bowl can announce any true juniors that they are inviting or, you know, let's be honest, this stuff is happening already behind closed doors. Guys can officially accept. So that's why, even though we've had some declarations, plenty of declarations so far,

we haven't had any true juniors except their senior bowl or shrine bowl invites. That's the reason why. They cannot do that officially until January 9th. And so January 5th is off deadline. January 9th is when All-Star Games can announce that. Official list will be sent to teams. And then for guys that aren't 100% sure yet, there is a January 15th final deadline to declare.

So a little bit different this year with everyone being eligible for those All-Star games. It's to make sure the NFL teams like, like you. Do they like me or do they like like me? January 15th is that like, oh, they just like me. Okay, maybe go back. Or look out how that transfer portal is right now because it seems just more, more names just crop up every day. It seems like ones where I'm like, that guy's staying in. Okay, that's how it's going to work.

You mentioned the schedule stuff, but that's such a great point with the college football playoff. It really seems to me the NBA's in-season tournament was kind of a good indicator of this. It's like right when college football ends, you have that arm. Army Navy game. It seems like everyone's trying to fill in that one Saturday before NFL goes, hey, we can take over Saturdays too like they're doing this weekend. But it's, you know, so the NBA has their in-season tournament, right? At that same time, you know, that's like the Kentucky Derby and everything. All those NBA NFL games boxing matches right after the NFL draft, just get that out of the way. So we can get into our fun. You know, that's kind of how they have to fill

fill in around the NFL schedule. But that's great information on the early Declare stuff because I was not aware of that. And like you said, it's just, it seems the last couple of years, they're really trying to revamp a lot of this draft kind of process, too. The senior, the All-Star Games getting juniors changing the combine drills a few years ago. It seems, you know, times are changing. And it's kind of every year, I feel like there's going to be adjustments after for so many years, it felt kind of static at least. Right. Right. And, you know, it's still you have to be three years removed from high school to be eligible. I don't see that part changing. Um, it's good for, yeah, and it's, you know, there are the one percenters, the less than one percenters who realistically could go to the NFL and be productive guys as after their freshman year, even out of high school.

You know, Brock Bowers was one of those guys. You know, there are those fewer than one percenters, but for the majority, the vast majority of college football players, getting that full three years, I think is really important. So, you know, I get why some have, or some push back on that a little bit and say, hey, if you're good enough, you should be able to go. But no, I'm in favor of the rule. I think the three years, I think it makes sense. And with NIL now, you know, I think we're going to hear less and less about it because if you're really that good, you have a chance to make money in college. That's what makes me feel better about it. Right.

It's not the same as an NFL contract, but it's still, you know, an opportunity to get. in education, make money, and develop as a football player. Yeah. Instead of just going straight to being an NFL player and washing out after one year because, hey, you mentally, physically, emotionally weren't ready for that. So, yeah, I don't see that three-year role changing anytime soon. That was, we had a former GM come in and talk to us when I was with the Falcons. And they were talking, he was a former MBA and talking about the NBA and talking about their guys

in the draft because someone asked them about like how do you feel about the one and done how do you feel about high school guys you know like and he said there's the arguments to you know for it and against it it's there is let them mature let them get more experience physically and mentally you know they would talk about NBA this is a huge thing is the you know culture shock the locker room shock of being also on an NBA team which is a huge jump uh for anybody but then also talking about well but if you get them in early, you get them acclimated earlier. And that, I know, that's always kind of stuck with me, but I always just feel for NFL, you don't see American football played, you know, when kids are young.

It's not like a seven-year-old can hang on the court with a 15-year-old basketball. You know, like a 12-year-old, you know, in basketball or soccer or some of these other sports, what is the beauty of them is that anyone can pick up and play. You know, ages, doesn't matter. It's kind of fun. You can just pick up the ball and go. American football is just the physicality of it all. Maybe seven on seven.

But at least NFL and. college football, I just always think that physicality needs those two, three years and the time when a lot of guys are developing, a lot of human beings are developing. So I've always kind of stuck with that even as much as I love the old ABA stories with like Moses Ball and stuff. So speaking of early declares, kind of had one at the top that was expected. One of the names that we expect to hear very early this in late April, and that is Drake May from North Carolina, declared early, of course. He's a red shirt sophomore, which I think we should always just remind people. most of these quarterbacks are a little older. But May, I think we have spent a lot of words on May on this show, but anything to add that has happened maybe the last few weeks where he said maybe had a couple struggles or anything like that. But him declaring is kind of expected, Dane. Yeah, no question.

I do think that, you know, I came out with my updated top 50 that first week in November and Drake May was number one on that top 50. If I had to do a top 50 right now, I'm not confident that he would still be number, at number one for me, just because those final few weeks were really tough for him. He struggled to find answers against Clemson, against NC State, two of the better, if not the best defenses on that North Carolina schedule. And it gives you a little bit of pause. And so I was waiting for him to Fisher-declare to actually go back and watch those tapes.

And so probably here this week, I will do that and have a better idea of, okay, what were the issues here? the issues aren't all on him. I mean, just watching on TV, he was not getting protection. The receivers looked like they were very disinterested in running routes. I mean, it was, but I don't want to make excuses for him. I want to really watch the tape and focus on, you know, what could have he done better or different to make the end result different? So I'm interested to do that before I really boil down these quarterback rankings

and saying, okay, I feel really comfortable. This guy is quarterback one. This guy's quarterback two and all that. But yeah, this was expected. Drake May is going to be, I 100% believe he will be quarterback one for some teams. You know, I think we've mentioned this before, but just a reminder that there's no such thing as consensus

for these quarterback rankings. You know, we have to kind of remind people of that. Ever. Even, you know, Trevor Lawrence, Joe Burrow. Like the, you know, the best quarterbacks. quarterbacks that we've seen come out go number one overall, they were not consensus guys from team to team. And especially that gets true when you talk about quarterback two, quarterback three. So I know for sure one team had RG3 over Andrew Locke. I know that. Exactly. I know that

for a fact. Zach Wilson was over Trevor Lawrence for some teams. Two above Joe Burr. I mean, it's, I mean, because these guys end up going one when we expect them to, we kind of just, oh, well, everyone was going to take him number one. Not true. I don't think it's true this year. Now, whoever ends up going number one, that'll forever be known as a former number one overall pick, but it will not be a consensus.

And so, yeah, I definitely believe Drake May will be quarterback one for some teams. And who knows, maybe Jayden Daniels could even get a few of those. You know, he could sway some votes there in an NFL room. You know, it would not surprise me at all. when I've seen some quarterback rankings before from some teams, it just kind of blew me away. And, you know, you just don't know exactly what they're looking for, how these interview process, all it takes is one, or, you know, a couple. Yeah.

And weird workout, one right. Yeah. And all of a sudden, you're bumping a guy down. And it's not necessarily because the other guy was that much better, but maybe one guy just stumbled in the process for one reason or another. So, yeah, I think it's important to kind of keep that in mind as we talk about these quarterback for the next four or four and a half months. But yeah, Drake May is going to be. Endlessly.

Yes. It will be. I was talking to Mays last night. And he's going to be a fun next five months. And he's like, yeah, maybe for you. But as a Bears fan, I understandably, it's going to be a little interesting for that fan base. Both of us wrote in our mock drafts, how we talked about the Bears at one. And then even on the show yesterday, on Sunday, I was really praising the defense.

and just going, man, the bears are fascinating. Fields is fascinating. I am so excited to see how this play it out. He was looking at me like, no. He's like, yeah, but no, but I could the exact same reaction that he gave me. I asked, oh, yeah, that's right. I asked Tim, and I'm going to ask you the same question. If you had to put a number percentage on the bears keeping fields, I'm sorry, we're

already getting off track, but I want to hear your answer here. If you had to put a number percentage on, okay, what the, if the bears keeping fields, trading that number one overall pick. I mean, they could stick and pick, but chances are they would trade that pick. Keeping fields for at least one more year. What would you put that percentage up? I would put it at 2080 or 2575.

I'll go with that. 25% that they keep fields instead of 5% that they trade to pick. I'm curious in those rooms who they prefer. Because even for me, it was because it's just even some of the blemishes of these quarterbacks that are coming out, Caleb and Caleb Williams and Drake May. It's like, I'm just curious, like, what they would prefer because one, like, and then also, you know, the connotations of taking another North Carolina guy, which I think is stupid anyways, but it's just one of those. Yeah, I know, but it's just all these things, these other underlying factors.

But I also with Iverflus and how the defenses look, I think very realistically, it's like, wow, he's, there's a lot of tangible on field stuff that even for me as someone that just brief, you know, briefly watches these guys on all 22. I'm like, oh, this is working. And it's not just because of Montes sweat. It's Kyler Gordon, but also all these other guys, but they're playing really well. And I'm like, that's the first sign of good things to come. If the guy, it's supposed to be a defensive guy in that unit. And once he took over the unit, it's cleaned up. And it looks at guys like random vets are kind of ascending as well.

It's like, okay. All right. Well, hold on, guys. Let's give this another month. But again, this is easy for me as a neutral fan. What would you put the percentage at? I thought 25 to 75s, which if you asked me a couple of weeks ago, it would have been even lower. Right.

I was going to say, with how Sunday played out, I think, yeah, you inch up a little, I'll probably go a little bit lower than you. Yeah. I just, I think Ryan Poles is in a position, enviable position where he's going to have a chance to draft his guy. I mean, I think. And if you, if Justin Fields is playing well as Ryan Poles, you're like, heck, yeah. That boost that trade value up. Exactly. You know, and we've talked about before how, okay, Sam Darnold got like, what, a two, a four and a six.

And, okay, so Fields is going to get what, a two, a three and a four, a two and a conditional two. Yeah. You know, I think it's, that becomes really interesting, especially for the teams that are on the outside looking in when it comes to getting one of a quarterback in this draft. Like, Atlanta is a, you know, obviously they didn't like Justin Fields enough to draft him in that draft when they were picking. fourth overall, but things are a little bit different now, and they're in a position where the skill talent they have, the offensive line is, I would say, above average. I mean, you plug in a quarterback that's clearly talented that maybe in that situation could really ascend. You know, it's fascinating. But yeah, I would put it probably a little bit lower, closer to 20 or maybe even

lower than that right now. You know, that's subject to change as we go through this final month. the NFL calendar, but the chance to draft your own guy if you're Ryan Poles. This might be your last year as an NFL general manager. You have no idea. You might never get that chance again. You have an, and it's just assuming he loves one or both or multiple quarterbacks in this draft, you have a chance to go get one, reset that quarterback clocks. Those factors, I think, win out at the end of the day.

You know, what they do with his coaching staff, that obviously plays a big factor as well. but yeah, it'll be really fascinating here this next month just to see how that team plays, specifically the quarterback. But yeah, Drake Mays can be part of this conversation all year round. And if the Bears end up keeping fields, it'll be a lot like, you know, last year where we're like, okay, where are the Bears going to trade the pick? It ended up being Carolina, and then we get to debate about, you know, who that team is. That team is going to take, yeah.

Right. I mean, right now the Raiders are picking sixth, I think. They keep moving up. They have a chance to maybe be in striking distance. Washington has made a strong sink to the bottom in the second half of the year. They've made a nice race to the bottom themselves. So keep eye on them as well. There's so many dominoes here that are going to play out these coaches coming and going and the draft order.

So yeah, it'll be, we'll talk more about that when we have, you know, more info. Solidipies. Yeah, exactly. Drake May is going to be at the top no matter what. Yeah. No, he's, I think, a very good player. I'm very excited to watch it. Watching Fields the last three weeks, though, it's been like, oh, boy, this is what I was hoping to see.

And this is weird because I kind of started going like, well, I think this is what he is guys. And then now he's actually showing growth. So he's going to be fascinating. But you mentioned that May had some, you know, maybe some struggles against Clemson late in the year. Two Clemson defenders declared Jeremiah Trotter and Nate Wiggins. Wiggins is corner one for you still? Or did someone else get the bump recently? I don't know.

I don't want to spoil anything. But I know he is high on your board. I think we both like Wiggins a lot. Trotter as well is high up there. Interesting offball linebacker class. Interesting, not in a good way. But yeah, those two guys declared as well. Any thoughts on Wiggins and Trotter,

do you want to update or any other players that early declares that you want to talk about? Yeah, I mean, I think Wiggins is going to be near the top of the conversation when you talk about these corners. The lack of play strength really worries me, that position. But I still think when you have that type of athleticism, him, the speed that he brings, the suddenness in his feet. And he just, he does it. He didn't allow many big plays on tape.

He saw 41 targets this year, only one, gave up only one play of 20 plus yards. So not only does he have the traits, but he played really dang well down the stretch this year. We talked about those two chase down tackles, forced fumbles that save touchdowns on the Miami tape, North Carolina tape. So again, this is a fast, fluid. athlete. He has on ball production. He can be an impact starting corner on the perimeter. And so he has the tools to be one of the better defensive players in this class. Now, Trotter,

you know, he's a guy that I heard people talking about, you know, first round pick and things like that. Look, Jeremiah Trader's not a first round pick. Like that's, I think that's pretty clear. He is going to be more of a, and I don't think he's going to be a second round pick either. He's, He's just, the struggles in coverage and when you force him to make plays in space, that's where it gets a little, a little rough. Now, I do think he could stick in this league and be a T.J. Edwards type of linebacker. That's a good comparison. That's a really good person, actually. I think, yeah, I mean, Edwards, I believe, was undrafted. So, you know, that type of linebacker who gets underappreciated, but, you know, once he gets in the right situation, just makes plays because, I mean, he loves the thump. He's very active.

A lot of going forward. Yeah, right, exactly. And he does have, so he's made some plays in coverage, but I don't, I mean, he has two pick sixes the last two years. He had won against Notre Dame this year and picked off Sam Hartman. But overall in coverage, he just, he doesn't have that fluidity that you want, that, you know, you see that lower body tightness that can really be exposed in space for shifty runners. So, you know, this is a guy that I think he's an instinctive. hammer. He's got pedigree, obviously, with his dad. He's been molded for this for a long time. So I'm not betting against him. But I don't think he's going to be as drafted as high as maybe some people think.

Yeah, he's one of those guys that's like he ends up almost being like a super role player in the NFL. I don't mean that in a bad way, a bit more of a you get used this way, very specific ways. But I, yeah, I think you nailed it on the head. Of course he did. But it's just I think it's, I think it's, Like he has a limited skill set, but what he is good at, he's good at. And I think it's just that you have to be realistic about it. Other guys that declared early, other players, we had Leonard Taylor from Miami. That was a questionable one. Because he, former five-star guy, like he was, you know, one of the highest recruits in that three years ago in that class.

This year, man, it was, you're watching Miami. Like, is he even on the field? I don't, oh, yeah, there he is. I thought he had a number change. Yeah, right. Just quiet, quiet season for him. And I mean, kind of doing his tape, working on his report, I just, I'm like, man, I'm beating him up way too much because he is talented. But at some point, you got to make plays.

And he did make some play. When I watched him over the summer, he did make plays on his sophomore tape. But looking at this year's tape, and it's just like, I don't know. A lot of these guys, you know, when you're that highly recruited and, you know, you know you're talented. I mean, you believe you're three years and out. But man, he just did not put together the 2023 that I think he needed to ascend and be that next guy. I mean, you see flashes. He's a former basketball player.

You see that athleticism out there. But at some point, you have to translate that athleticism to impact production. And he has not done that to this point. But, you know, he's 21 years old. You love the talent. Where does he get drafted? That's an interesting conversation because, again, you're betting on traits of potential and, you know, the process will be important for him,

the interviews, the workouts, just to convince teams that, hey, I'm still a work in progress, but man, if you invest in my potential, it'll pay off for you. So Leonard Taylor's, that's an interesting one. Miami had three really interesting defensive players declare with him, Cameron Kitchens, and James Williams. You know, Williams, another big-time recruit, five-star guy. he's unique because he's 6-5-215 as a safety and it's like okay I don't what are we doing with you where are we playing you are you going to be a j-ron curse type of guy like you're not Isaiah

simmons he's not Isaiah Simmons type of athlete and he's not Kyle Hamilton because he doesn't have that type of football instincts and ability that we see Kyle Hamilton have so what is he what type of role I think that that's going to be really important for him just to figure him out and then Kitchens I think is probably the most well known of the group I there's a lot of I think you and I kind of found like a nice consensus with him it's like you like you got

to realize he has some limitations as well as like an athlete yeah he is not a top tier athlete basically and you know I think what he runs is going to be really interesting so the physical traits don't wow you now he's not like a bad athlete by any means but he doesn't have those top tier physical traits So, but at the same time, I do like him because he's, I think he's a really well-balanced

skill set. I think he plays with awareness. I mean, you don't have as many picks as he did in college without some type of ball-hawking awareness. Yeah, exactly. So best case scenario, he could be an Eddie Jackson type, but I think that's best-case scenario. More likely, he's a guy that's going to be fighting for a starting job.

And so he's really interesting. But again, I think, you know, when you look at the production, he, over the last 25 years, three Miami players have had double-digit interceptions. Ed Reed, Sean Taylor. Sean Taylor. And this guy. Pretty good group to be a part of. Yeah. Yeah.

So I think you're looking at him as, you know, split safety. You know, he can, he does have enough range to play at the post. Yeah. Want to be smart. Let him work to be a little. bit. Yeah, drive top down, maybe some two deep shells. I mean, let him so he's not.

Yeah, I think, yeah, we see him pretty similar, but he's, he's not that first rounder that we thought. Nope. Probably more of a third round type of guy, but someone that does have a chance to be a starter in the league. Yeah, I like him in a lot of certain spots. I really like him. If you like went to, they don't really need them.

Well, they might, like the 49ers. I would really like him there because they are. so much quarters. But like a team, even like the Ravens, like, because they just, again, they like smarter guys and they kind of find uses of guys with athletes. But again, they run a lot of quarters. But guys, funky looks. You want to put him with a smart defensive coach and you'll like him a lot.

But if you want him to be the dude, like running around being Mika Fitzpatrick, it's like, no, no, no, no, no. So it's like you just got to be understanding what they are. But I thought the Leonard Taylor, I'm glad because I finally studied him because I, because underwhelmed with him early in the year, and I was still underwhelmed with him a little bit. Ryan would be a little bit different position, but narrative-wise,

both defense alignment, but narrative-wise reminds me of Mario Edwards. Like big, big recruit. Yep, Florida State. Ends up going on the second round. He was a raider. He's kind of stuck around the league a little bit as a nice role player, but like just one of those huge recruits,

had some traits, and so someone's going to kind of maybe take a chance on him because of that, because like what you said with the flashes. So that was when, as you were talking, I was like, man, this kind of sounds familiar. Well, and it's funny because there are so many different scouting philosophies from team to team, scout to scout. Some scouts absolutely believe in grading to the flashes, you know, and that's a thing.

And so if he tests the way he's capable of, you know, Leonard Williams could, you know, maybe go higher than we think based or higher than the tape says he should. But again, because it's based on the traits and what teams think he could. grow into. So yeah, he's a tough one to peg right now exactly where he'll be drafted. But yeah, and this is, again, what I said at the top of the show, the underclassman being able to go to the All-Star Games, but we just don't know who yet. Cameron Kitchens, put him in the senior bowl and let's give him a chance to show what he can do. I think that would be a smart decision by Kitchens to, I'm just assuming, I don't know, I'm assuming he's going to get that invite. But if I'm Kitchens, if I'm his representation, hey, go play in that game.

This is a safety group that is, you know, Tyler Nubin from Minnesota is my top safety at this point in the process. It's wide open, though. But it really is wide open at the top. So, you know, these underclassmen having a chance to really make a name for themselves, Leonard Taylor, you know, go do it. Go make some plays in an all-star game on one-on-one. Interior defense alignment, too, is another class that's wide, like, you can easily rise if you have a good off-season. Sure, sure. So, yeah, I think that's important to remember as we discuss these underclassmen.

Yeah, Chop Robinson from the edge from Penn State declared, which... What do you think of him? I'm very comfortable with a comparison to him, which is Yonnik and Gokwe. And where a DPR more, more of a DPR type, but I mean that like a plus DPR, meaning designated pass rusher type. But pass first, has some juice. Can times I frustrate me where he gets wash out a little bit, where his moves do not work. and he can kind of doesn't have the recovery because he can kind of get latched on because he's a little

undersized or against the run he's iffy and that's what you just have to understand but the thing is in this class he has a trait that not a lot of guys do which he can truly get after the passer so i i like him almost more of a i would be comfortable more with him in like the 20s in the first round and later and even more early second round just because of that skill set but he does have that juice that not a lot of guys have. Yeah, I think when I wrote my report on CHOP right after he declared, and, you know, I came away liking him more than I thought as a run defender. But to your point, he does, he has some of those limitations because of his size. Yeah.

Yeah, he does a nice job. It's not effort. It's not effort. No, no. That's the thing. It's just natural limitations. Yeah. But he does do a nice job locking out, setting an edge.

It'll just be a lot tougher to do that in the NFL, especially against doubles, but even single blocks. But, you know, he is a guy that some rushers, past rushers, they need a runway. This guy doesn't need to build up any speed. He accelerates. He goes zero to 60 in a blink. You see the suddenness in his movements. He'll use. And I do think he has like natural rush instincts, which I wasn't sure coming in.

I thought, you know, maybe this is a guy that just wins with speed. you see different well-timed swats swipes. And then the way he can dip his body, he'll throw in a ghost move. He's learning to go out and in, too. I kind of use that threat of speed, which is always like, yeah, oh, there we go, there we go. That's what you want to see. Right.

And so I think for him, it's proving that, hey, I'm not a one-trick pony. You know, that's going to be a key for him during this draft process. That prove that I'm not just a pass-rusher. That might be what I do best, that first step, explosiveness, my aggressive hands. My best trait is getting after the quarterback, but that's not my only thing that I do. So, yeah, I think for a team that's looking for that wide nine defender,

you know, the guy that can be schemed across the front, but you know, put them wide nine, let him use that speed. Chop Robbins, he's a guy that teams are going to really like, but where do you draft them? You know, that's going to be an interesting part of this whole conversation because, again, you graded the flashes, you watch, you know, the Iowa tape, you watch the Rutgers tape. He has some moments where it's just, whew, impressive.

So it'll be interesting with Chop Robinson, again, exactly where teams feel kind. I know some teams have them as a third round grade. Other teams like them believe he'll go in the first round because of the pass rush. So somewhere between the first round and third round is where he's going to go, and it's just a matter of where teams feel comfortable. Well, and also this class is more pluggers, more strong types. you know, edge setters,

280-ish-pounders, and he's a different flavor than those guys. It's like having a, like last year's class, being a big receiver and amongst all the small receivers. And it's always,

just a different flavor. Yeah. It's always funny when I talk to, like, area scouts about, hey, I see this guy as like a, first round pick,

what do you think? And that, those types of conversations. And, you know, and they say, oh, I saw more of a second rounder, but they always throw in the, you know,

You know, they have to say, you know, I have no idea what the rest of the country it looks like. So, you know what? Even though I have a second round grade on him, he might be the 25th best player in the country. That's a correct point. So it's like, yes. Teams usually only have between 15 and 20 first round grades in a draft.

And then, so if you're a playoff team and you're picking in the 20s, you're drafting a second round player. Yeah. And so John Brompson might not be a consensus first round pick for, for teams. But he had a good chance to go in the first round because, of the value he brings as a pass rusher. And, you know, again, I think it's, it's just, it's an interesting when you stack these guys and you say, okay, I graded him as a second round pick, but then you stack them and it's

like, well, actually, I like him more than this guy, more than this guy. And all of a sudden, he's top 25 pick for you. And he has the trait, though, one skill that is so highly valued, which is he can get after the quarterback. It's like, that's the thing. It's like, oh, he's limited. He can only do this. And that might be negative.

that area. It's like, but that one thing that he's positive in, it's like, oh, okay, well, that's a good thing to have. So, I thought it was interesting. He was voted team MVP. Him and Olu, Foshanu, were voted the team MVP's by the Penn State coaches and players. They just love watching one-on-ones every day.

Yeah, yeah. That says something. You know, that he was voted the team MVP. Like, that's something that's really interesting. That is. I don't, I don't, right, right. It's, and that's a team that's got plenty of talent on it.

Yeah, yeah, no. Well, if Felix and UK, Uzama could go in the first round. Yeah. Chop. Chop is a half tier at least above that. So that's... Every year we see these, you know, another Penn State, Jason Oweigh. Yes.

You know, who's the patch rush out of Washington that went to Tampa? You know, they... Oh, Tron? Yes. Every year we see these pass rushers sneak into the... It's coming along. Late Fer. Izzy, I have not watched him.

But when you play a certain position, that gives you a little boost. We talked about it when we talked about the mock draft, about the offensive tackles, getting a boost. Quarterbacks, corners, pass rushers, receivers, tackles. Those are the positions more than others that will get that boost. Absolutely. There was, yeah, well, another player that's not a premium position, Cam Little, a kicker from Arkansas declared early.

So that was notable. I just had to throw that one in there. I can let you let you watch. No, I have not watched Cam Little. I am sorry, but well, rookie kickers are all the rage right now. Look what just happening in Dallas right now with 60 yarders getting boomed over the net. I can't get over that. It doesn't make sense.

I mean, it doesn't. The ball pops off his leg. We talk about that with quarterback sometimes. But like having said that, like watch Joe Flacco, it's pretty funny because he had such a strong arm and watch, like watching him throw. And then the ball still kind of zips out of his hand. It's like, oh, wow. You still got a Joe. Braille.

Oh, yeah, sorry. Sorry, one underclass amount I wanted to ask you about Johnny Wilson of Florida State. I saw that. Have you watched him, studied him, and what did you think if you did? I studied him a lot because I was also watching Coleman. But watching his teammate. He's so tall and he's not going to create a lot of yards after the catch. And I think that limits kind of like his use and his skill.

So I think to me, I view him more as like a third rounder at best. because of just, yes, he has the height, the catching grange, which are all natural. I think his hands are okay. I would say pretty good. But I think, too, is just that he's limited because he's, I don't think you, I'm curious what he runs. Because, you know, of course, he's a guy, he's six, seven. So he's going to take a little buildup speed. He might be in the four sixes.

I mean, I don't. That's, that's right. And so I kind of look at him as a middle rounder. And, but I do think, like, I think like if you're on a good offense and he's your, number three weapon in that offense. Like I would like that as his role. But like as opposed to being like, I don't see him as like, oh, yeah, you put this guy as the X and he's your number two and he's winning a one-on-one.

But as a part of your offense, I like him. I was surprised. Like I didn't expect a guy that would be a superior athlete. He's not. He doesn't separate. And I don't think that was the expectation going in. But I was disappointed, especially in like contested catches, 50-50 balls. He should be better with that type of size.

I don't think he uses it enough to his advantage. I agree. And I mean, I don't think he's a natural hands catcher. I really don't. I think he's an average athlete, not a natural hands catcher. It's not fast. He's not explosive. That's what it's.

And he's not efficient with his movements. Like his arms are flailing everywhere. And like, you know, so like when he gears down, safety's all over it. And corners all over it because, I mean, You can read it a mile away. He is at his best where it's actually the Louisville tape from last year, where he just destroyed that secondary. I watched that game.

Yeah, a lot of posts, a lot of articles. I mean, one cut, go. Yeah, exactly. I'll build it up. Use a little hesitation and go. And that's where he's out as best. And it's just, can he develop more to his game? And I really questioned that.

I compared him to a lesser talented version of, like a Devin Funchis, where he's kind of stuck in between. Is he a tight end? Is he a receiver? Like, he has talent, but it's just, he's just not as talented version of that. And so where do you draft a guy like that? I don't know, it's tough. He did accept a senior bowl invite.

That'll be big for him. You know, get down there in Mobile and kind of show what you can do. But, I mean, doesn't bring any special teams value. That hurt you, you know, when you're trying to... Because he's not a freak and you can't run him down on as a gunner, you know, like where he just overwhelms everybody. Yeah. So figuring out his role and where he fits is a little tough.

Wilson's a guy that needs to make some noise this year to kind of, this is what I can do really well. I mean, there are explosive plays on his tape. I don't want to sound like I'm just bashing. He, over the last two years, he has, if not the most, the second most catches of 20 plus yards in the ACC. So he's been a guy that can, yeah, he can make some plays. but again, yeah, you want to give them that runway,

one cut at most, and let him go make some plays. So he's an interesting one, a guy that I know I've heard or I've received tweets asking, oh, how high in the first round is he going to go? And it's like, guys, he's not, he's just not that type of player. And, you know, like a lot of these guys we talk about,

Triders not that type of player. You know, some of these underclassmen, they get, you know, pushed out there in those first round mocks. And it's just like, all right, We got to temper our expectations a little. Well, yeah, and Johnny's the 6-7 receiver. You know, he has a line to him.

You know, like that. It's, oh, it's the tall guy. Like, so that's how people are going to remember him. That's how I remembered him when I first watched him last year, early on. But now I'm kind of glad to hear you say that because I knew he had some hype. He was one of the first receivers I watched it in the summer. And I remember even when you texted me about Coleman. I was like, oh, Wilson?

Because I was like, I hope you don't have him in the first round. Yeah, right. But yeah, but it was, yeah, but I watched him. And I, yeah, I think we're on the same page where it's just more of an oozing. or the another guy that I thought declared, but it was just because he was listed as a true junior, but it was really because of the COVID years, Theo Johnson,

a titan from Penn State, who is very interesting in this class because of what the skill set he brings, which I think is more of a why. But do you have thoughts on Johnson? Because that was a, I watched him this morning and I'm glad I did. Well, I, first of all,

great backstory. Like his, there was like his parents. There was a domestic incident. And, um, I mean, I mean, he basically, he's, there's, he's one of six boys.

He grew up in Canada and there's domestic issues with his parents. And he, with his mom, they fled and kind of had to rebuild their lives. And, I mean, he's been very open about all of this. And it's just a pretty inspiring story, what his mom's been able to do. So that first and foremost stands out with him. but then he is a really toolsy player. And I think it's interesting when you compare and contrast to two Penn State tight ends, Tyler Warren being the other one.

I think Tyler Warren's probably the better football player. Theo Johnson's maybe the better prospect in terms of just having better tools to work with. The classic story. Right. And yeah, well, it's kind of like TBD to see how this plays out because, yeah, he's a guy that has, you know, you see the speed. you see the mismatch potential. You just kind of wish there was more.

So, you know, he's a guy that I think teams are optimistic about, but you just kind of left you wanting a little bit more. You like the athleticism before and after the catch. He can get open. He can make that first band miss. They lined him up everywhere. And they put him in the back field. He'd be in the wing.

That's what I noticed. Yeah, they put him in a slot. So when you have that type of athleticism, you have that luxury. but I just came away from his tape wanting a little bit more compared to what traits that he offers. But again, he's another one of these players that you're going to bet on because he moves differently than everybody else. As long as you feel like he's coachable, I think you have a level of optimism with Theo Johnson that is going to make him probably somewhere in the top three or four rounds. Yeah, that's by looking him as more of that third round range again. Yeah.

The, this is the classic tight end bet is big the biggest, fastest athletes and hope they figured it out. Like, especially one that played, you know, and no offense to our Canadian listening audience is sometimes you, maybe they're underdeveloped, even if they go through college experience, you know, in Penn State kind of, you know, Penn State's a little loosey with some development, some of their players, you know, some guys that kind of stay plateau there. So you maybe hope that there's more to them. And tight end is such a hard position. And maybe, like you just said, oh, he's bounced around. using all the positions. They bounce them everywhere. That's what was apparent to me.

That's when I watched them because I was like, who the hell is this guy? Why do you declare? And so scanned through three games this morning trying to watch him. And I was like, okay, they bounce around here. That means the coaches like them. It means like, okay, we can use them in this way, which I was like, okay, that's good. He has that natural hand eye coordination that I really like.

As far as when the ball comes his way, you didn't have a lot of catches. I think you only had 30-something catches this year. Ball does come his way. I think he's snatching it. And he's very comfortable getting upfield. And, like, he, I think this guy was a better player and a better prospect at this time right now. But this is why I liked Kraft, Tucker Kraft last year. I think we both did.

But that natural athleticism, or were they're big, grab the ball and get up field right away. And they're getting those yards. And, I mean, we're seeing Kraft kind of move up a little bit these last few weeks. Way to go, Dane. That was a, that was a, he looks good, man. And once Musgrave comes back, it's like, oh, boy. I understandably needed time. coming from South Dakota State.

He was an underclassman. They said it on the broadcast that how in camp, they're like, okay, he's going to need some time. But they said every week he's just boom, boom, boom, boom. You're that big. I mean, you're a ball winner and you have two-way potential as a blocker and receiver. Yeah. And Theo Johnson, he's verified 6060. So he's 6.6.

And he's right around 260 pounds. So he has a projectable body. And he doesn't look lumbering at all. I mean, he carries it well. So I like to do the whole guessing game when I first watch a guy and I'm like, okay, I'd say, I thought 64-255 or 6-4 like there. And I was like, he's 6-6. And I was like, okay. He's 60-602.

Well, this is what he was in the spring for scouts. 6060-258. Big hands, 10-inch hands, 33 and an eighth arms, over 80 inch span. I mean, those are all plus numbers. And at that size, he, I would guess he's going to run between. 4-5-8, 4-6-3, somewhere in that range in the 40. I mean, he is a... Oh, someone's been on this guy.

Oh, yeah, for sure, for sure. Yeah. And so I know. Tyler Warren, the other Penn State tight end, has not... I don't think he's announced yet, whether he's coming back or maybe he has. I haven't noticed, I haven't seen it if he has. But that'll be an interesting compare and contrast because, again, I think Tyler Warren might be the better football player right now.

He's a toolsy guy as well. I mean, he has plenty to work with, just not as much as the... Johnson. So both Penn State guys will be really interesting in this class. Yeah. Last one I want to shout out. Our last name would bring up is Utah's Sionvaki declared. He was a fun two-way player.

Is he a safety or running back? I know. Man, he's a pretty good runner back. I know, he was. He's great on screens, like catching the ball and stuff. He was shredding USC, I believe it was when I watched him on offense. But defense, too. I know he's a plus player.

At first I was like, oh, softball and everything, but he's a 2019 high school grad, but still, yeah, interesting player. I need to do more work on him. I did too.

Because I, he's a football player. He's fun to watch it. He's fun. He's fun. He is fun. And it'll be really interesting to do a little more digging to see how teams look at him,

what position and what, best long term, that kind of thing. So, yeah, he's interesting. I know, what was his, I was curious,

what was his weight? It was right at right around 200, right? 208. Okay. Hell yeah. There we go. Let's do that. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Running back could be your possible, be in your future as well. Any other early declares who want to get to the transfer portal? I'll jump right into that. Yeah.

Let's hit in some of these transfers, especially these quarterbacks, because it's a couple of guys we thought might be in this draft class that won't be Dylan Gabriel, getting that Nike money going to Oregon. I think, I mean, he's not a big time prospect.

And so I think some people were surprised that he decided to go back to school and not go to the NFL. He's making more money this year than he would have made next year in the NFL. So not that much was surprised. Smart business decision right now. Riley Leonard, your guy going to Notre Dame, that'll be a really interesting fit. I see how that works out. Yeah, he, I don't, this wasn't a great year for Leonard. I didn't think.

I remember we talked about that Clemson. the game, I believe, and we were laughing because everyone was like, man, Leonard and me and you were like, that's actually one of his lesser games. Yeah, right. Than if you watched him. When you watch his tape, you just don't see a ton of NFL throws this year. But interested to see what he could do at Notre Dame. He's such a good athlete and he's naturally accurate. And it's just, again, I think he's one of these guys that didn't know he was going to be a quarterback.

So, you know, he was a basketball player. So it's like, I think he's just going on going like, oh, I'm this guy. Oh, okay. I think it's coming to him a little bit. I'm fascinated in watching this year. I thought that's a fantastic fit. He could rise up. But again,

I agree with you because watching that offense was frustrating at times because there's so much quick game. And that was my worry this summer. And again, that's a, were they doing that because that's all he can handle? Or because, you know, so very fascinated to watch a letter this year.

I am a little worried because that Notre Dame is going to lose both tackles. Joe Walt and Blake Fisher, the right tackle already declared. Yeah. He, he, he, um, more of a questionable decision by him, I think. Um, I don't think he's going to be drafted. Yeah. I, I don't know.

I did not like his tape at all, but he's talented. So it's like, okay, uh, at some point, probably third, fourth round, a team's going to take a chance because again, you're, you're talented, but the tape was not pretty. Um, but again, that's why I didn't have been the first round of my mock and I was like, I kind of, have you, have you watched them? Yeah, that wouldn't surprise me. Yeah. But again, he is talented. So it's like, okay, but he's going to be more of a project for you. But, yeah, what is that offense going to look like?

I mean, Sam Hartman, I know, I think, got frustrated with the lack of receiver help this year in that offense. Audric Estimate, we're assuming is going to go to the NFL. So that offense is going to look very different next year. And so what they do to really accentuate what Riley Leonard can do and try to, you know, do better than what they did with Hartman because Riley Leonard's obviously a much different quarterback with, you know, can win inside the pocket, outside the pocket is going to give you a rushing element. How they tap into that would be interesting. It will be. Yeah, that's another one. My other QB3 for about two weeks, Tower Van Dyke visited Wisconsin. Thank you for that text. I had several

people hit me up about it. I was kind of. You probably woke up that morning or like, oh. It becomes, it's your guy. Like I know him. I know anything about this? I'm like, no, I Would you get him for Christmas? Yeah. Right. I think he's a size 14. Yeah, give him some issues.

But, yeah, Kyle McCord from Ohio State visited Nebraska appears. Yeah. And that's interesting because the top recruit. Oh yeah, high school recruit,

Royola was originally Ohio State, then decommitted, then went to Georgia. And obviously he's got the family connections on Nebraska. So it seems like that could be happening. But, you know, where is that leave Kyle McCord?

And so I don't, I don't know. Because I happen like bang, bang, too. Visited and then they got the number one of your career. I was like, oh, okay. Nebraska's got some deep pockets. Again, with NIA, NIA changes everything. And, you know, it's all about what a booster is willing to spend, you know. And so that, that's definitely an interesting quarterback situation to watch.

Hey, it'll be, it'd be good for the Big Ten. It'll be good for that program that has really struggled to be relevant here the last few years. I know. It would be bad, yeah, for just even for nostalgia reasons. How I remember watching Nebraska, watching the option eye play after play. The, uh, Mike Rowley told a story when he got to Nebraska and he was visiting, I think they're in the indoor facility. And he was like, oh, you guys have the fields like a line this way. Like, you know, Norse, I don't know how, what the story was.

Do you have it this way? He's like, oh, we always did like east west or something like that. And he was just saying an offhand comment. Yeah. And the guy that was given the tour just goes, well, we can change that. Like, we can flip that around and like, do that. like we can have that done for you by tomorrow and it was like it was like how much would that cost and it was like uh it cost about like 80,000 or something like that and he was just like no no no no

no I do not need that I was just commenting on that but to speak to Nebraska's pockets it's like that's how they treat that football program and really all their programs look at how they're doing women's volleyball right now right pretty pretty awesome um also some uh DJ Eugulele visiting Florida state which I think is very interesting I would want him to follow that staff to Michigan state maybe to kind of keep progressing but we'll see well they brought the other state quarterback to Michigan State who is probably a better court me he's younger I haven't yeah I haven't studied him but he's yeah he's he's dynamic so um I think they're pretty excited about yeah what he's gonna bring Michigan State um okay but yeah I think that'll Florida

State would be a nice landing spot for him um I just want to watch him keep getting developed because it was like right he still has a ways to go he does the big one that I'm I can't wait to see is Camp Ward. Camp Ward, right? Formerly of... Why just go to Ohio State? Well, I mean, but it's not... I don't think it's like a...

Because Miami's in the mix. I mean, he visited Miami. And there's... Sounds like there's a handful of teams here that are really in the mix for this kid. And he's still considering entering the draft. So it's not a question of just,

you know, where... What college is going to transfer to? The NFL is still on the table. So, you know, I know, talking to our... our transfer portal guru here at the athletic, Max Olson does a great job covering all this stuff and tracking it. I mean,

he's got options. And so it'll be really interesting to see what Cam Ward ends up doing. And yet to your point, specifically Ohio State, interested to see what they do a quarterback with McCord, likely not coming back. And I think they're fine with that. I think, you know,

they told Kyle McCourt, hey, we're going to have some competition this offseason. And McCord's like, all right, I'm out. So what do they do to bring in that competition would be really interesting. Yeah, I'm very here's reward, Gus. His tape was very fun. First half of the year, much like how Wazusi is and went kind of tailed off at the end,

but he's a very fun player, and he's gotten better. It's like, you bet on him keep getting better because there's some fun stuff he does. I don't know how a state fan asked me about him, and I was like, okay, how do I sum this up? Okay, well, Kyle McCord, he was like the Ferris wheel at the carnival, you know, know, like there are some ups, but eventually you know you're going back down. You know what you're getting, basically. With Cam Ward, it's more of the kind of rickety roller coaster where you're going to have fun. When you get off, you might be sick to your stomach. You might want to get right back on. I don't know. That's kind of the excitement. You might buy a picture. Yeah, right. So

it's going to be more of an experience. And yeah, like I said, you might be sick to your stomach after that experience. But at the same time, you might want to go right back on and have fun again. So it's more of a roller coaster with Cam Ward. That's a fun comparison though.

No, that's perfect. Because that's how he is. Hey, he's going to be exciting. It'll be different. It'll be different than what you have. No doubt.

No doubt. The other one, this is just for me. Braden Shager from Hawaii quarterback there transferred. Very interesting to see where he ends up. I watched two early game, Hawaii games early this season.

He was interesting. So I just want to keep an eye on him. The other one, Howard's that guy for me. Formerly of Kansas State. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, he's pretty good, actually. I'm very interested to see where he goes.

And then off of the quarterbacks, I was really interested to see some of these guys that we expect to be part of this draft class no longer in this draft class. Prince Lee Umin, me, Ellen, the pass rusher, we thought would be a probably a third round pick in this draft. He transferred to Ole Miss. the other guy that transferred Old Miss, Antoine Wells from South Carolina, really talented NFL receiver.

He's going to be at Ole Miss now. I'm so glad I studied him. Yeah. Get a head start. Trevor E.N., the Florida running back. We don't know where he's going yet, but I mean, obviously that's a talented player. You see his mom debating with Florida fans on Twitter.

It's actually, she's doing a very good job, actually. She's using their own arguments against him. No, she's having fun with. with it, it's actually pretty fun. RJ Oban, the other Duke player to go to Notre Dame, obviously got NFL bloodlines there. So, you know, he's a pretty good player. So, yeah, some players we thought would be in the 2024 NFL draft class,

going back to school, new place, taking advantage of that NIL. Yeah, things are, again, things are changing. The last guy I wanted to mention, for me anyways, was a guy that was on Feldman's Freaks, which is Thor Griffith from Harvard, the pride of Matt Burke, transferring to Louisville,

but if anyone doesn't know, Griffith is, again, a freak, 6-2-3-20. This is all listed. This all reported. So, again, you have to, you know,

pinch a salt. They can count at Harvard, right? So the 45 reps of 225, which would be the Combine record or near it. Right around it, right around 44 might be the record. A sub-540, which is put him again in rare defensive tackle territory.

But even if he's 80% of this, I am very interested to watch how Griffith looks at Louisville. So I did want to give him a shout out. That's a good one. Yeah. Yeah. And McCyme used the Georgia Returner who's like 5-5 and like just fun, just a fun player to watch.

So I'm curious where he ends up. I think that's it. We covered, we were supposed to be a tidy, small show. Me and Dane. I look down to like 50 minutes. I'm like, what the? I don't.

I know. I was like, oh, we got to start talking transfers. We're what, 25 minutes in? Nope. But that was so much fun. Just another week on the prospect of pros. Yes, we always are nice and tidy around this hour mark. But thank you guys so much for joining us.

This was a ton of fun talking early declares, talking transfer portals. But we will be here every single Wednesday. We got the college football playoff coming up. We got All-Star games coming up. It's the draft season is upon us. So get ready. We'll be here every single week. See you guys next time.

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