The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Ranking the best teams after week 8, Mike White shocks the Bengals, the Saints top the Bucs & more with Nate Tice

Episode Date: November 1, 2021

How do the best teams in the AFC and NFC rank at (basically) the halfway point of the season? Following a weird week 8, Nate Tice and Robert Mays discuss Mike White's huge day for the Jets over the Bengals, the Saints topping the Bucs, the curious conundrum of Baker Mayfield and the Browns' offense, Amari Cooper pulling the Cowboys past the Vikings and more week 8 reaction.ATHLETIC DISCOUNT @ theathletic.com/footballshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays joining me tonight. It's my good friend Nate Tyson. Nate, how you doing, buddy? I'm doing very well. I realized, yeah, it is Halloween and we're not dressed up, which I'm fine with. But it was like, all of a sudden I was like, I think that's what you're supposed to kind of do on these things.

But it's like, hey, it's a podcast. It's not a visual medium except for the people listening right now. Well, yeah, I was sitting in my house all day. I'm not going to be in a costume all day. That's when people are like, why are you wearing a hat? Or the questions people ask, like, I've been, you don't understand the scramble that happens between like when this late games end and when we start this show. So, no, there's no, there's no getting ready involved, especially no costumes. We pray for the Sunday night game to be boring.

Exactly. We pray for it. So we don't have to pay attention. Today was the first day, first year, we've had trick-or-treaters. So I had so much candy in the house because I was ready. I was ready to make those kids happy. I was like, no one is going to go away wanting more candy from this house. which means I have just been eating candy all day.

I have eaten so many peanut butter snickers and Reese's peanut butter pumpkins today, which, by the way, the peanut butter to chocolate ratio on the Reese's shapes is perfect. The cups are too much chocolate. The shapes, though, are amazing, and you just pop them in, and I guarantee you I've eaten at least 50 of them today. I think it's- So I have people just take that into account as you listen to me over the next hour.

Because the ridges, I think just, you know, they take out a little bit of that extra. peanut butter. I totally agree. I think, and then so you get the full shape no matter what the season is, whether it's like the Easter Bonnie or the trees. The trees for Christmas. Yeah.

So I think that's what it is. So you get the proper, you get the proper fullness. And so I think that's what they intended. And they were just trying to save money in like 1932 like Hershey's was. And they just chopped out that little part. And so like this is their way of giving back in the holiday season. They're evolving, which they deserve some credit for that. They're getting better.

They're progressing. They had a buy week. They adjusted. We're putting off the start. the show because I don't know what to talk about after the week that we just watched. Here's my question. After taking in week eight, who's good? Who the hell is good?

Especially in a certain conference. I was just about to say. With that question kind of lingering over us after another wild kind of confusing week eight, here's how I wanted to do the first 15 for this show, which is the way that we start off every single show. Like an NFL team has a first 15, our first 15 minutes. or how we open things. I want to do power rankings for each conference.

I want to do the best five teams in the NFC and the AFC and see if we can actually do this because I don't have confidence in our ability to pull this off. Let's start though with the NFC because in my mind, that's much, much easier to do. So why don't you, after week eight, give me your top five NFC teams as you would currently rank them in this very moment.

And I do want to reiterate me to have not. discuss this at all. We have not talked about this at all. At all. We just knew we're doing top five. Okay, my number one is the Rams. And that is my number one team overall. And I'll just, spoilers. Number two, and this was tough because I'm deciding between two and three. Number two, I have the bucks. Number three have the Packers. That one is tight. And then I'll go four cowboys and I go five Cardinals. And then if six is saints is the

honorable mention. How about you? This is so fucking annoying. People always complain. People always complain. People always complain about how we always agree on everything. And this was a chance for us to disagree about this. I have the exact same five teams in that exact same order. I changed the Packers of Bucks. So maybe that could be our little like discussion. That's so annoying. Okay. Walk me through. All right. Let's let's start with the Rams. Okay. Why do you think that they are just a slight smidge above everybody else in the conference? I think if you're just talking whole team, they can win in different ways. And also on

offense, I really don't think they have limitations. I think they keep adding to their offensive repertoire every week. And it's like, oh my God. Like what they're doing on offense is so much fun. Just the empty stuff, which we've talked about, but then just everything else, they're packaging together. They're starting to get better with the run game as far as putting it more out of the shotgun. And it's like, oh, and this is just every week.

They just add a little, add a little sprinkle to it. It's just like gets better and better and better. So it's really cool to watch that offense. And defensively, I still think they're with a new defense coordinator, they're kind of to figure out exactly what they want, but it's still good. It's good enough. I mean, with the offense playing like this, it's more than good enough. Exactly.

And they can create plays, like they can create turnovers, and they can withstand just kind of body blows where they just like, okay, we got beat right there. They adjust. They adjust to what offenses are doing, which is so important as the season goes along. I just think they're the most complete team in the NFL right now. I think that's totally fair. For me, coming into the season, all the enthusiasm about that, my question was, how much better can the offense be if the defense is going to take a step back?

And the step back they've taken is pretty much what I would have expected, right? You go from being the best defense in the NFL to a middle of the pack defense. Yes. Could the offense make up for that? The offense has more than made up for that. They're the best offense in the NFL. They're the most efficient offense in the NFL. They're arguably the most explosive offense in the NFL.

So they have more than, they've gotten more than enough out of that side of the ball for them to make up and whatever decline that offensively. So any enthusiasm people had is warranted with this version of what the team looks like. I also have them at number one. I have the Bucks at number two just because I still feel like the Bucks offense is a machine. They had a couple hiccups today, but I still feel like that Bucks offense when it's rolling, the level of talent, how well Brady is playing. That team right now, to me, is just more complete offensively than the Packers are.

I have the Packers at 3 because I was impressed with the way that they played on Thursday. I was impressed that they could win in a different way, right? I was just very impressed. All right. We don't have Devante Adams. Our passing game is broken. We're going to roll out this offense with two running backs doing two very different things, and that's what we're going to center on.

Our offensive line still wasn't healthy. They still have a place to go. And I think their defense, they're getting contributions to guys I didn't necessarily expect. So I think they're still. And I think the Bucks defense is going to get healthier. Like when the Bucks defense gets their guys back in the secondary, I think that's a big thing. But those are my three.

And I think the Cowboys, I think the Cowboys are right there. I do too. That's that I wanted, like when I was knocking those off, it's not like, I said two and three that's tight, but it's like, it's not like a tear drop. It's like, it's more like just, you know, that's a smack. Those three teams are like all in it together because I think those are all three good teams. And you think the Cardinals just a step down from all of those.

Yes. I think they are a good team though. Like they've legitimately, but the JJ Watt injury does hurt. It's a volatility to me. I just think that there's so much more volatile than those other four teams. They're just not when the Packers, even when they were struggling on offense, I still feel like they had a place to go on Thursday night. They could go to certain things. It's like, all right, we're going to run the ball just down your throat.

Like we can be this even with our offensive line not being at full strength. And that's impressive to me. Cowboys are the same way today. So, all right, we have some guys that can make plays. Their defense stepped up. And I think the Cardinals are just a little bit more volatile than that. I think the Saints are a step outside of that group. I think they're right there.

I mean, they're probably going to make the playoffs. We'll talk about them here in a minute. But that's my five. That was easy for me to do. That was. And it's like, and this is the Western Conference because we're about to get to the Eastern Conference of the AA coming up. Is it disaster.

I'm not saying it's bad. I'm saying that trying to do this exercise for the AFC is miserable. Okay. Who are your five AFC teams? Okay. One is Bills. Two is Ravens. All right.

And this is where I go to skew. I go three. I go Patriots. I go four. Yeah, I knew that would be spicy. Four, I go Titans. And then five, I go Chiefs. And, but honestly, there could have been about three other teams there that I could have been. So who are the other teams? Oh, I went, okay, I went Raiders, Bengals, Chargers after that. Okay. We have the same top two teams. We have the bill. Okay. Let's, all, let's walk through yours. Why do you think the bills are still number one?

oh man, honestly, it's like, it's hard to like say, like they are the number one because they're the one team that has shown they can win in different ways. They have shown this defense. I trust this defense. Like even if the Titans game, they're not going to play the Titans every week. The Titans are a bad matchup for them, but they're not going to play them every week. They might play them in the playoffs. But it's, it's, I think this defense can hang with anybody, just how they win. They have so many good players.

They win by soundness. They make you beat them. And no matter what, they'll be in every game. And offensively, Josh Allen is still. Josh Allen doing these things. He is the whole offense. And that's what they've tried to really figured out on offensively. It is disjointed. They're trying to live in the spread world, which does limit some of the stuff they're doing. I do think these teams that play them often, the teams in their division, the chiefs, the teams that repeat play them, the Ravens or the Steelers,

I'm sorry, other teams that have repeated and play them are starting to have some more answers. So I think really for them, that's hard. This is my number one team. And I'm already talking about stuff that they have to improve on. The FC teams is like, oh, look, these five. Fireworks. Oh, look at this. That's a blue one. That's a red one. This one's like,

oh my God. It's like firecrackers just going off. But it's just with this Bill's team, it's, they can win in different ways. I've seen this offense peak. It's just this offense, I think is going to be up and down because they're going to have some bad matchups.

Just how they want to win the spread, a bunch of little receivers. It's mean how I say that, but they do win against man. They can't do that. But it's just, it's just how they're built. We haven't seen them hit the level they were on last year.

We have not seen that eruption. They're winning a different way yet. Yes, they're winning uglier, and I think that's a good thing. The fact that we haven't seen their offense really hit its stride, and they've still been a top 10 offense by most efficiency metrics right at the edge of the top 10, but still up there. And they're winning all these games ugly. I think is good. I think that's a sign that if we can win, even when things really aren't clicking,

and the rest of the teams in the conference continue to kind of struggle and flounder in all these different ways, that's a good sign for us moving forward. Yeah. I also have the Ravens at two. Okay. I don't know what my exact reasoning is. Here's my reasoning. I think that of all the players that we're talking about here, and of all the units we're talking about here,

I still feel really good about the Ravens offense overall because of what Lamar can give them and what the running game is, even with the concerns about, I mean, their talent at running back right now is so limited and so obvious. If we had running back one notch higher, that their running game would be super, Sonic the way that it's been in years past, but it's not that right now. The defense to me still has great games. They can still find great games. I'm still worried about the secondary. I think ultimately

it will, it could doom them. But I don't feel that much better about any of the teams behind them. So that's why they're number two. It's not a good argument. I'll admit that it's not a good argument, but I don't have a better argument for anybody else. It's so funny how you said that you're like two and I don't feel good about it because it was like I put them two and I was trying to go sort through this. And I was like, I think this is my first note about the Ravens. I go put the next seven teams in a blender. It's just chaos. I feel the same way. That's what just whatever. This is.

AFCs could be this out. All these teams are going to short out as they're getting on buys and kind of like some are going to take leave. Some are going to just hang here. This Ravens team, we know what the negatives are. Like you just said, the DVs or the past coverage is a little, little dicey week in week out. It's like, yeah, up front, they have kind of some nice pieces and they're doing some good things.

And then offensively, we know the offensive line limit. It's like they're playing better. They are playing better. The tackle still concern me though. That's just in the back of my mind. It's like haunting me. And the corners and the tackles are haunting me. Those are not two spots that you want.

Yes. Week links. And this is a team with weaklings at those thoughts. And it's still the number two team in the AFC. Yes. I know. And you're like, oh, and that's the thing. It's like, well, Mark can just go supernova.

And then you're like, yep, there they are. That's the Ravens. But it's like, you never know what they're going to get every week. I don't have the Patriots in my top five. I understand why you put them in there. So I have the Titans at three. Okay. To me, it's just, I think the offense is finding its footing.

Yes. To me, they have star power. We're going to talk about that. I think A.J. Brown being back and looking like A.J. Brown is really big for them. They even have Julio today. I think that they're finding themselves offensively. They're going to get better on that side of the ball. Their defense, they have a couple guys who continue to make plays.

Harold Landry made plays today. Kevin Byer made plays. They will talk about that. But I don't feel good about that. I have the chiefs at four because I don't feel good about anybody, so I might as well put my homes in there. That's it. I'm never betting against them.

So it's like, all right, I got to throw them somewhere. Even if they have the worst defense in the league, and we're confident they're going to have the worst defense in the league, in my mind, in a different world, let's say we're in a place where the Ravens are more complete, where the Browns are the team we thought they were coming into the season, where the Chargers aren't having some of these issues offensively. then this version of the chiefs wouldn't deserve to be in this conversation. Correct.

We wouldn't be talking ourselves into, oh, well, the turnovers will come back to earth. They still move the ball. There's no way this turnover differential and this turnover rate can continue. And when that normalizes, even if the defense is bad, they'll be fine. I wouldn't be doing that if I thought there were serious roadblocks from other teams in the AFC, but I don't feel that way. So that's why it's easy to talk myself into putting them in this group, even with the way that they played and even with what their record is. Yeah.

And it's like even the other teams that I was like considering like, okay, Raiders. Oh, yeah, but they just literally fired their head coach. And it's like, yes, they're improving. But that team has its blemishes too. I just think they haven't played anyone that's really like kind of abused with their, uh, with some of the stuff they do defensively and stuff like that. So it's it's like, I'm the same way you are. My only note I had for the chiefs was just like, I'm not bad against my homes. I'm not batting against this team that has proven that they can do this.

And I get it. The defense is atrocious. But it's like they improved the last week they played. They're playing tomorrow night. I think they might just blow them out of the water. And we just go, oh, yeah, that's right. They can do that. We keep saying that though and that it doesn't happen.

I know. I know. I know. I even bet on it on a Friday show too. If there was a different situation, if there was the landscape of the conference was different, I wouldn't be making such a simplistic argument. I wouldn't be going back to this well. So I the chiefs said for,

I had the bangles at five. But to me, whatever. You can have the bangles there. You could have the chargers there. I think the Browns are still probably somewhere in the conversation. We'll get to them. They're not playing very well, especially on offense. But I do think it's so muddled that you can put a bunch of teams there.

Why do you have the Patriots as high as you do? I have, from what we've done on the Friday shows, we have now watched the Patriots a lot. And it's like what they're doing with, they're hanging with good teams. I'm just like the Cowboys and stuff like that. I think they are improving week in, week. out. Their defense is kind of, they're not doing anything that Bill Belichick has never done before, but the pressures they're bringing are different as opposed to maybe doing their, uh, all mugged up. Oh, the Sam Darnold seeing ghost kind of pressures. They're doing just the one off ones where just

one guy comes. They're playing the man. Different places too, from the slots sometimes, from the linebacker spot sometimes. Yes, they had a real fun one. We'll talk about them. But, uh, but the drop eight stuff. Like, and then just offensively, I think they're figuring it out. Like, Mac Jones was pushing the ball. And every week he pushes the ball just a little bit more. And that was my main blemish with him. And it's like, okay, cool. Like they're, yeah, the guys aren't super explosive, but they do enough. It's a nice, you know, nice mixing of role players.

But I can see that offense just improving weekend. And especially with the offensive line getting healthier as well. It's just hard for me to buy into their ceiling. I mean, you just think about the playmaking talent that some of these other teams have and they just don't have that. You know, when they need something, when they need an explosive play, when they need somebody just to kind of be above and beyond. just don't know who that is on their roster. And I just think that their ceiling offensively is limited in ways that other teams in this conversation aren't.

I don't know what to make of the Bengals. I mean, I just... I don't either. It's such a confusing time. And for every single team in the NFC, I think that's why we want to do this because it's really hard to sort through them. The question I want to ask you, though, how many teams in the AFC would be the second best team?

How many teams in the NFC would be the second best team in the AFC? Four? I think it's four. Yeah, everybody, that, that, that, that, that, you know, The box packers, Cowboys Cardinals. We'd all be the second best team in the AFC. Yep. I agree with that.

It's true. It's the Eastern Conference. I mean, that's what it is this year. The NFC playoffs are going to be a bloodbath. Oh, I know. Every single game is going to be incredible.

It's going to be awesome. Oh, every matchup is just going to be, ooh, ooh. None of those like just blowouts were, no offense, but like the Saints Bears game last year where you're like,

oh, I know how this one's going to fish up. I'm sure that these lists will not look ridiculous in two weeks. when we have to do this again. I'm sure that these will hold up extremely well because it's been a very predictable, normal season where everything has happened about on schedule and about the way we assumed it would. Exactly.

Everything is just trajectory straight upwards. That's how it is, week and week out. All right. It's time to talk about the things that grabbed our attention this week. Let's get to you at my attention. Gentlemen, you had my curiosity,

but now you have my attention. You all know during an NFL Sunday, just a wall of stuff coming at you. And sometimes it's hard to be. pick out what mattered what didn't every week we like to go through three four things that just kind of made us stand up and take notice during a Sunday during an afternoon and I want to start with the New Orleans Saints defense a unit that we talked about coming into the week and one that made enough plays against an offense that we love with the bucks to come up with a huge win yes

and it's one of those words like yes we didn't jinx them because it was like yes there we go we covered it to him and they played great I mean we done before But this, it was interesting to see. Last week, starting with the man in cast, when Tom Brady goes, yeah, play man against us. Let's see what happens. And then I said it on Friday. I was like, yeah, I'll be curious if they do it. Their saints are playing some man.

We'll see if they keep it. They did it. And the results were good and bad with it. It's the results, which you expect when you play man coverage against Tom Brady in the table of bay bucks offense. And like, that's why Chris Godwin went off. It's hard to keep up with him in the slot play after play after play. But man, they were just doing a nice mix up.

stuff. And that's how you have to beat good quarterbacks. You have to mix up what you run. It's really hard to do the Seahawks of the 2010s where you just run the same shit every play. It just is. So you have to have really good players. So like with this bucks, or I'm sorry, with the Saints defense, sometimes bringing the pressure, sometimes going man, sometimes just don't spot drop. Sometimes going drop eight, you know, just, you know, making them just go, oh, shoot, one to two to three and getting pressure when they only bring four guys. That also. Or three or a strip sack on top of it. against a Bucks-O-Line that can kick a lot of teams asses, this weekend, week out.

It's like that that really does something. And just how aggressive they were today, like the pick on the, the ball gone to Tower Johnson, who was that Gardner Johnson. C-J-J, yeah. Yeah. C-G-G-G-J. Yeah, C-G-G-G-G-G-J. Yeah, Garner Johnson picked off when he was covering Tyler Johnson.

But it was like on that one, it was like just a nice, like, little headiness and as well as just like the aggressiveness in playing man coverage against this buck's offense. It was a four by one sale. You have to make a play against this team that every once in a while, you're going to have to make a play. That was not a bad breed by Brady. They were in man coverage. He had cleared out.

He threw it exactly where he wanted to. And he just made a play. He's like, I'm falling off this and I'm making a play. And it's funny because it's such an interesting contrast. Early in the game, Godwin had that huge reception. And I think it was a third down where he just roasted at him.

on a jerk wrap. And that's going to happen against this team, right? Like Brady threw four touchdowns. There were some explosive plays. There was one, the long touchdown to Cyril Grayson at the end, that's a situation where I think the Saints are doing some of that cover seven stuff where it's very rules heavy, right? Like you, the numbers and how you count it and everything else, it's very rules heavy. They had a bunch.

They switched release and there was a miscommunication. Latimore went with Evans because he was number one and then number three went vertically and that's going to happen against this team. The Bucks are very smart and they have very good players. So every once in a while, they're going to beat you. But you need to make plays. You need to go above and beyond every once in a while. And that's exactly what he did there.

And I think that's a perfect example. I want to talk about two third and sixes on two consecutive drives in the second quarter. You've kind of alluded to them. You were third and six, 14, 15 in the second quarter. They lined up in that dime look that I was talking about on Friday that I love. Three defensive linemen, linebackers mugged up. They only bring five, but neither of the linebackers come. The slot comes and the safety on the other side comes.

Davis books it underneath Godwin. Juan Alexander gets 10 yards of depth to get underneath Evans. And Brady does not expect this. There's pretty sticky coverage on the right side where he went with the ball with Cameron, and Brate, against the corner on that side, in completion, drive over. So you have total miscommunication, confusion, don't know where guys are coming from. You only bring five. Yeah.

But you don't know which five are coming. Yes. Drive over. Later that quarter, third and six again. They drop eight. So they have the same look. They only bring three. Cam Jordan walks Tristan Worf's, who's pretty damn good, into Brady and uses the right tackle

to make Brady fumble, strip sack, drive over, turnover. So exact same situation, exact same look to very, very different approaches. And that's what you have to do against Tom Brady. And it's just a perfect encapsulation of why this defense is a problem. Yeah. And not even just like, I mean, those are awesome examples because it's like they didn't play scared. Like a lot of times it's hard. It's hard.

And this is easy for me to say it's sitting here. But it's like it really is hard to like go against these like good offenses, good defense and just go, you got to take it to them. You got to, you know, block it up and go at them. it's like, no, that's, or on the flip side, it's like, no, you got to blitz them. You got to vary up the looks. And it's like, but that's what the Saints defense did. And they, they, they took their, they took their punches. Like Godwin went off.

Like, it's hard to keep up with this team. Play after play after play. But it was like when they had an opportunity to take advantage, they did. And, and also just, well, oh, the last pick six too. It's like, you, you ask me on Friday too. You're like, what, what is that kind of Greg Williams defense? And because that's what, you know, Dennis Allen has, has some roots in. And like, they'll, they'll vary it up.

So it was like the robber stuff. They're reading a lot of the quarterback stuff. They're getting the quarterback to do, anticipating what he wants to do and taking advantage of it. And that last pick six, it was like, Aikman kept saying, oh,

that's two man, that's two men. It was almost like a four man where the safeties are driving because they're trying to hit on those overs. And it's taking advantage of that. But that's the thing. Every time they played too high, it's aggressive against the box.

They're cutting that stuff off. Yes. They say, oh, you want to hit those overs? Nope, you're not getting those overs. They're making you go outside,

outside outside and that's hard to win outside. By the last quarter, the last quarter, by the fourth quarter, the Mike Evans touchdown, Brady, there was a man look. Like he could have read it out and like beaten ban on that. And he said, screw it. I'm just going to my axe on the deep seven route, on a deep corner route. And so that's what he did. That's where they're first in Tom Brady to do.

They said, screw reading this out, this high low on the man. I'm just going to take my one-on-one. It's just going to go with that. But that's like speaking to the defense that you're making him shortcut stuff. It worked out. Don't be wrong. It was Mike Evans touchdown. But you just showed that Tom Brady just said, screw it.

He was hitting that button by the end of the game. Well, it's interesting because that was a three-man rush. The reason he had time to get to that because they only brought three guys. So eventually, by making things hard, by being a little bit hard to predict, you're going to put yourself in bad spots every once in a while. But you have to take chances. Sometimes you're going to have to drop three because you're going to get one every once in a while. The other thing I wanted to talk about is very quickly, the play before the strip sack. There was a TFL.

It was a small play. It was a subtle play. But Montravis Adams and Carl Granderson just destroyed the right side of the buck's offensive line and made a play about two yards deep in the backfield on second and six. And that's the other thing about this defense. We know it's Mario Davis. We know Marshawn Ladamore. We know the stars, right?

Cam Jordan made a huge play in this game. They play with a uniform mentality, especially up front. And you feel that. And it's guys like Montravis Adams and Carl Granderson and shy Tuttle getting a key holding penalty called against him. That's what makes this defense great. And that's what you saw from them today. And I think if we kind of zoom out a little bit, this is a reminder of just how well-rounded this team is and why they're a pain in the ass to play against. Even if there was sort of a talent purge over the last couple years just because of cap realities. And even if they're not as deep,

and even if they do have some more defined holes where Kevin White's having to catch 50-yard bombs in this game, I'm freaking out after. I would too if I were Kevin That is a new reality for this team, but the reality that's transitioned over is that they're still really well coached and they still have a lot of dudes on the defensive side of the ball. The sad thing for me now is there was a world where James making the throw he makes to Trey Kwan Smith, right? It's a great ball. It's a great throw. He's aggressive. That's what their offense has been.

They're passing game this year. They don't throw it a lot, but they'll get those chunks because he's willing to take them. Now, what does it look like? because there was a path for them to be an annoyance in the NFC playoff race. And they're most likely going to get one of those wildcard spots with James removed from the equation, which it sounds like he will be. Now what does it look like? What does it look like with Taysam Hill? I don't really trust Trevor Simeon long term.

I don't know how many roughing the passer calls you're going to get in key moments as we move forward here. He's taking charges, man. He's taking charges. That's the bummer for me is because I think that Sean Payton was doing an unbelievable job. And the overall staff was doing an unbelievable job. And now I just think the path forward is much more difficult with concerns about your quarterback is going to be. Absolutely.

I know. Just as you're starting to feel good about what the Saints were doing, it's like James goes down. You're like, ah. Like you're like, ah, we might have done the top five. Do you're like, okay, maybe. But it's like now that kind of like, it's hard. Like you just say, it's hard to kind of like fully go like, oh, yeah, this team,

but they can make some noise or not make some noise, but they can be feisty. It's going to be, it's really hard to go against this defense that's like you said, a mentality of just ass kickers. Like, that's what they are. They just have that mentality of like, we're going to take your head off. But they do it in a very intelligent way. It's really fun to watch.

Well, speaking of that, let's get to the Patriots defense, which also kind of garnered our attention today. Top three in AFC, baby. For the second year in a row, they gave Justin Herbert a lot of trouble. Another tough day for the Chargers offense in a negative 12.4 completion percentage over expectation today.

It was the third worst mark of the week. Rogers was second worst. I mean, the passing game package was not good. Donald was the worst. So, and it's fine. But it was not a good day for the Chargers.

And I think that a lot of credit deserves to be given to the Patriots defense and kind of how they went about this. Yeah. The four strong, okay, against the Cowboys, Cowboys ran a couple four strong concepts. I've said this like three times in the last couple weeks.

Explain what that is. Okay, four strong concept is a, you have four routes working to one. side. Most route concepts are three by two, you know, or you're going to isolate two on the outside and have three in the middle kind of like as like a triangle, inside triangle read. A four strong concept is usually like a three by one concept, a three strong, but you just add one more. And more offenses are doing this just to overload aside, break defensive rules, make

their guys communicate, especially with jet motions. The Patriots, I've talked about the Belichick defense and it's very rule oriented. They do such a good job with it. but how you kind of get them off put a little bit is kind of just breaking their rules run unusual concepts, unusual formations, or run usual concepts from unusual formations or unusual looks. But I guess the Cowboys and the Saints actually, the Patriots were facing these four strong concepts and the Cowboys got them a couple times. It was a drive concept and drive is a crosser with a dig behind it. It's a little high, low concept you can do. And they got them like three times with it. And I was like, oh man, wow, Patriots didn't have answers.

Wow, that's curious. not really used to seeing that from Bill Belichick. Chargers come out first, third down, four strong, try to run a drive concept. There's Kyle Van Newey working from the line of scrimmage. Just waiting for Austin Eckler, just like, you coming on a crosser? Come on over, buddy.

It's a great, great example, because that ball should have been caught. Yes. But it wasn't easy. They made everything hard today. And you can look at that play and you can think, oh, that's off his hands, like, come on now. But every single thing was a tight window throw. Everything needed to be earned by that Chargers offense today.

And I thought that that's a perfect example. I had that written down as well. And I thought there were several moments today. We talked about last week, I was looking for it today because of it, talking about just the inefficiency on early downs from the Chargers and how much their play action game was affected by that multiple times today where they're just getting blown up on play action on early downs. I know.

And it was a couple different times. And this is a couple different things. So second and 10, it was 422 left in the first quarter. They run a boot concept. They leave Judon unblocked, which is normal, right? By the way, some people were trying to gaslate me today talking about boot stuff with Justin Fields. The reason that the bears weren't using boots before is they didn't trust their right tackle because the third string right tackle. First of all, it was one game.

Second of all, you don't block the end man on the line of scrimmage when you boot. The right tackle doesn't seal anything. I was like, am I taking crazy pills? What are you talking about? Bootlegs, like the blocking, I've said this before, but they're called elephants on parade because the offenseal line just get to hang out. They just got trot to the one direction together. The right tackle has nothing to do with sealing the backside in a boot. You can seal with someone else.

You can have someone coming across. There are plenty of ways to do it. The right tackle is not involved. I was like, am I losing my mind? Anyway. So they lead you down unblocked because that's what you do when you're booting back to the right. But the right tackle doesn't sell it at all. Norton takes one step and then sets up, right?

You got to wash that thing down. Second, Herbert takes a step and a half, acting like he's going to hand off before he pulls the ball away. Judon sees it. He sees him pull the ball. So obviously, he's screaming toward the quarterback. He's in his face instantly. Play gets blown up.

Later in the third quarter, first and 10 play action, they have Cook on the left side. Judon just crashes inside. Cook does not seal him off. It's another play action throw. As soon as Herbert's head is around, there's somebody in his face. that's the Chargers not executing in those moments. Little details from them are frustrating.

They are not as precise on offense as I would want them to be. And I think that that's just one of their issues. But when you have defensive players and a defense like the Patriots that's going to consistently take advantage of that, you see performances like today. If you give them a window, if you give them those inches consistently, they're going to take them. They're very well coached and they're very good. And I think they did that consistently today.

And the Patriots are a defense because they're so well coached and they do all the study like studies more than anybody. That's what they're famous for is self scouting and opponent scouting is that offense that can sometimes telegraph what they want to do. And like the charges do vary up their looks. But then there's times where it's like, well, tip slot. Here comes a play action. You know what I mean? It's like you can. That was the good play.

That's exactly what they were in. They're both tight ends to that side. Yeah. And also other things too is by our frustration a little bit sometimes with this Chargers offenses or mine. too is quick game and quick game is fine but they have a you know sometimes a little too much desire to run it a little but they lean on it a little bit too much more than I would like whether the quarterback like Justin Herbert that can push the ball and you know what the Patriots did today they dropped eight and dropping eight is a great counter for quick game because you just put bodies

in a lane it's like playing against a two you have to be precise and they are not precise right now you have to beat where and you if you don't know where especially with that eighth droppers coming from whether it's the edge or if it's a detack or if it's a lineback or whatever it is on the personnel, it can really mess with those quick game because you're like, okay, I'm throwing stick here. Why is the end? Go underneath there. Oh, shoot. And guess what? Quick game is very quick one to two. And then you have to scramble and break and tame. That's why Herbert, you saw a couple times like trying to create a throw is because that it gets squeezed. And that's what you have to do. You have to create a throwing line. Dack did a great job of it a couple of weeks

ago or last week. But, or yeah, a couple weeks ago, oh my God, it's all blend in together. But it's, but that's today is what happened. It was just, it was very hard. It was like they telegraphed what was going on. Totally. Just knew what was common. It just kind of like, it was a great game plan. It really was. A lot of balls just getting deflected off hands, but defensively, offensively.

But again, that's just the lack of space to work with. They did it consistently. They brought pressures in the right moments. They had one that was beautiful where they brought 40. I don't know what 41's name. I'm getting so old and washed. They brought him off the slide. I have it.

When Judon crashed inside, it was about halfway through the third quarter. It was a third and eight. And that's the type of stuff they were doing. They didn't bring a ton of heat in this game, but they varied up the enough to make them really uncomfortable. Miles Bright. Miles. I was a three by one bunch. Yep. Third and eight, third quarter. Yeah. And they held they oh my God. The disguise on this one was awesome. I think I was going to I think I tab this so I wanted to write about it because it was like they hid the safety backside and the other safety was like not when you when you bring slot pressure the the safety will

kind of cap. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Patriots. That's how you identify right. Yep. And if you looked at this one, you would have gone, they're not bringing it. They're stat, both of the guys. He came really late. Late and way out. Like they were, he, he hit it. Because a lot of times those slot pressure guys will start cheating, especially against a bunch because I go like, oh, I got to get inside the receiver so I can hit this lane.

He stayed in a hung, hung, hung, hung. He kind of gave it away a little bit about the, I'm not coming. I'm not coming. And you just stare straight at the receiver in front of them, you know, where they almost go cross-eyed because they're like, I'm not, I'm not blitzing. I'm not blitzing. I swear. But that's what he did.

But it was, it was great. And when you got guys like, I have to look up his name again, even though it's right in front of me, Miles Bright, number 41. We have a DB work 41 making plays like this. That really helps. I also was impressed. Christian Barmore had some plays today. Him and Judon working little games on that against the right side of the Chargers offensive line. That's an advantage for the Patriots.

And they consistently took it. They consistently took advantage of it. That was this type of game where when they gave New England an inch, they took a mile. New England's offense did not look great. Like it was kind of an up and down performance from them. they need a defensive plays. They need a great performance on that side of the ball. And they got it.

So now Patriots are four and four. You have them as the third best team in the AFC. I guess. I mean, in a world where this is, it's so muddy, they suddenly become pretty interesting. I know.

I could believe I put them at three and I was like, yeah. Like of all those teams we talked about, it's like I can just talk myself into them the most because it's like, I see them playing good ball. And it's like, I see a path where they can keep getting better. That's what you want to see from a team at week eight right now.

And they have the tiebreaker over the chargers now. And all those, I mean, those teams kind of bunched together there with three losses, four losses. I can understand how you can talk yourselves into them. All right. Let's get to our next one here. AJ Brown, you have my attention. Oh, boy. Ten catches, 155 yards and a touchdown.

Here's why it mattered to me today. And here's why I wanted to point this out. I thought that today was a day where the Titans star power really shined through. They didn't play well. They were down 14 to nothing. They had some really bad turnovers. They had, I mean, also some bad breaks, multiple deep pass interference penalties again for the Colts. It's the best thing they do on offense.

It's a great offense. And the Eagles still do it too. So it must just be something in the water in Philly. So it's this very uneven day for the Titans. And they leaned on their best players. The touchdown that AJ Brown scored is to me like the perfect AJ Brown play. Super, super heavy. He's the only receiver on the field.

He's working outside against the corner, very physical, gets some separation, but then, and this tight rope walked down the sideline manages to turn, which should be just like a 10-yard, 12-yard catch into a 57-yard touchdown because he's gone. And that's what he does. And I think you saw today the type of complete player that he is. And like I mentioned before, that's what this team has, right? Like even if we have a little bit of concerns about their defense overall and the holes they have in the secondary. Byard sealed the game today.

He's been great this year. Harold Landry had a drive-ending sack today on a stunt where he's just, as a looper, do make an just explosive on a stunt to finish off a drive. That's what they have right now. They have like six to eight guys

that are really, really good players, and they're showing up for them right now. For them to win this game when they were down 14 to nothing and when Derek Henry averaged 2.6 yards per carry, that's impressive to me. I said,

I had a note. I said it's the brute force offense because it's just our best players get the ball and then we just spam the hell out of it. It's like when you create a player in a video game like in Madden or NCAA and you're like, my guy's winning the Heisman. So I'm going to make sure he just gets 35 targets every single game. That's what this offense does. And it's like, yeah, that's go for it. If you can do it, go for it because that's what offense. That's what good football is, right? It's just taking advantage of matchups. And really, that's what AJ Brown is becoming more. Even in my head, sometimes I'm like, oh, he's the Inbreaker runner.

He catches yak. And then he just goes after that. But he's becoming such a complete receiver. I totally agree. It's just, man, like just today, we look at his catches. He had a field out first press man, you know, for the touchdown. He has a dig from the number two spot against, again, against Pressman. So he has an inbreaker and an outbreaker right there, both first first man.

He has a short comeback from the outside. So he's running comeback routes now. You know, he has the out from the slot against Pressman against naked. Like, he's winning from the outside and inside. giving you yak ability afterwards. And then he's already had proof this year where he's, you know, dunking on guys in the red zone. Oh,

that's complete ball. Okay, that's complete receiver. Like it's like, I mean, that's literally all three levels. He can create yak and he can win in the red zone. That's a complete receiver right there.

And he can block because he's big. It's like the only comparison I have for him because it's so hard receiver wise. It's more like Charles Barkley in basketball where it's just like, you know when Charles Barkley would get a rebound and just barrel down the, that's what he is with the ball in his hand. He's just a force of nature that plays bigger than what he is. That's what, that's what,

round is. I'm so glad you mentioned the slot stuff in where he was lining up because he's just attacking teams from everywhere. When we did our non-courtic. And you saw that at the end of last year, when he was working against Marlon Humphrey in that wild card game, when we did our non-quarterback draft earlier this year, I had him in like the top five. And it was a lot of it was based on that game. It's like this is where we saw him going, where his ability to kind of do all of these very refined, nuanced receiver things from every single alignment combined with his, force of nature ability that he has makes him terrifying. And I think that you saw that today.

And I am glad that we have the full version of AJ Brown back after what the start of the season looked like. The other guy I wanted to. Injuries. Yeah. And yes. Whatever. Going to Chapoiloy and hamstring injuries.

I want all of that out of my life. I want this guy every single week. The other guy I wanted to mention was Keith Carter. If we're talking about people to mention with the, or people to pay attention with the Titans, he's their offensive line coach. Yeah. And the reason I wanted to mention him. is because this team has gotten really good play out of David Cuisenberry as their full-time

right tackle this year. He played six games last year as a starter because they were hurt along the offensive line last year. But we never talked about it. We never mentioned how many issues they had and the rotating door they had at tackle last year because it was never a problem. The fact that this team has just gotten consistent play from whoever they seem to put out there over the last few years and has survived offensive line injuries in the way that

they have, I think that's really impressive. That's a topic of conversations for most teams when they have to endure those sorts of injuries. It has not been with that. And Quis and Barry is somebody I noticed against him. It's like, God, he's playing pretty well. And the fact that they're just throwing him there and they have a guy they drafted in the first round at that spot, it flames out, and we don't talk about it because it's not a weakness for them. I think is a testament to how they've been able to develop that group as a whole.

Especially how down the field they attack. It's not like they're running quick game. 20 snaps a game. And so, oh, the ball gets out. That's why they don't have any pressure. It's like, no, they attack down the field. So I completely agree. I think, yeah, that's such a great point because it's just, we do not talk about when they've had injuries. Tyler Luwan's been banged up. I mean, it's just like, and it's like, yeah, they're still like they managed to get that stuff done. It's like, that's supposed to be a star for them. Like you just said, it's just like, and they get these guys that just come in and play well. And it's, they don't

have to be stars, but they just play competently. And that speaks to coaching. When everyone has good eyes, backups are coming in and they know what to do. They're pointing. Usually that's good coaching going on. I mean, that game against Buffalo where he went out and they kept just rolling on the ground. That is very impressive. That is something a lot of teams cannot pull off.

Yeah. All right. Are you ready? It's time to talk about the man this week. It is time for the state farm, surprising the great performance of the week, presented by State Farm. There's only one way we can go with this, man. Mike White.

Take a bow. Take a bow. bow Mike White. What the hell was that? I loved it. I don't know what it was, but I absolutely loved it. I don't think anyone expected a guy with no career starts to come in and light up a defense that tormented Lamar Jackson last week. It just toss up four bills, you know, 400 yards. Yeah, why not? See what happens when you play Denzel Mims? You know, this is just, this is the good things that happen. You're playing a long game here. Big time payoff for you down the road.

I'm going to get there. So I was looking at the numbers. And before I dug back into the game, I looked at the numbers initially. It was 3.67 air yards per attempt, okay? 277 of his yards came after the catch. 20% of his throws traveled over 10 yards in the air. So when I saw that as I was rewatching the first quarter, I was like, oh, well, you know, maybe this is just not as impressive as the numbers would have you believe.

Were there a lot of screens? Were there a lot of yak throws? Yes. he also made half a dozen throws in this game that won them the game. This isn't an upset where, oh, you know, the Bengals got in a hole early and everything went wrong. It wasn't like that at all. They were winning by 11 points of seven minutes left in this game. This could have gone up in smoke and it didn't because the Jets offense continued to make plays.

And that's what exactly what you're saying right now is that like, it's not like he was like, oh, screens. And then it was like, oh, 350 yards was just screens. and it was like a 90 yard catch and run, miss tackle. It's like everything he was throwing was like on time. Like he was going like, he was going high, low on stuff and it was like all like in rhythm. And that's why the backs had so much great room to operate. Shout out to Michael Carter, a draft favorite. But it was like working underneath.

It was because he was letting the Bengals defense sink. And so there's sinking is then and then you just find it underneath because he was willing to work downfield. And it wasn't like he was just checking it down because then he was hitting seam balls. He had some digs. and then also two inbreakers late in the second half just ripping them he had the glance to denzo to mims i believe and then he had another inbreaker to crowder where he's just letting that thing rip i was like okay all right like white yep i know the eyes going to right spot i was like

sweet like he he had a naked going to the left and you could see him because naked is just the one to two to three you know underneath mid deep and he's just going one two three and he hits the over coming the back and i was like good for you man working to your left like you can do that, I guess. Like, where the hell of this come from? But, you know, the players played well, but it was the fact that they could run what they wanted to run. They were going like 989 with him. Like the pick six, he's trying to check it down. It wasn't pick six. I'm sorry, but the tip ball that turned into the interception. It's 99. He's trying to work it and he checks it down. He just get, unfortunately just gets tipped up. But it's like the process was all good. Yeah. It was just bad luck.

So it's not even like it was like, wow, he got lucky the whole day. The burios throw was awesome. Oh, what a play. What a throw. Like back, trotting left and whips it left. Against pressure. They brought six guys on that play. He needed to throw it off his back foot. Incredible ball placement.

And that was right after the play before he threw that missile, the Keel and Cole. That Keel and Cole caught with one hand. By the way, I, we've, I've had this conversation before. I think Brandon Lloyd is the answer. But I want somebody to do a deep dive on the best ratio in NFL history of just insane catches to total catches. Like how many of your catches are all-time highlights? Keel and Cole is in the top five. Like every fifth Keel and Cole catch is the best play any other receiver has ever made in their entire life.

That was an incredible play. He stabbed it with one hand for a touchdown and just happened to lose control as he was coming to the ground. I know. But on the next play, on the next play, he throws a dart to Berrios at the pile on with pressure in his face. And it was like, that's a big boy throw. Yes. Like you have to make those throws. That's the red zone.

They're going to heat you up. You have to the DB, I mean, the receiver has to win against man. But then you have to throw it to a spot. And he's going left and he did it. It was like, sure, like sure. Like, you know, way to go, Mike White. And it was like, yes, the players, other players played well. Like Michael Carter did have a nice game.

Like, you know, like you said, the cold catch. Ty Johnson, his tie Johnson's touchdown was awesome. Yeah. And it's like, yes, they did well. But I mean, he was doing stuff that was what his players like make place. And as a quarterback, if you're not going to be the star, even though he threw for four bills and whatever today, if you're not going to be the guy, it's like letting your players be unlocked, letting your teammates do what they are good at with the ball in their hands. That's being a good quarterback. It's like, hey, I'm going to get the ball out.

I'm going to put it in the spot to let you make a play and go. Hey, they won the game. I mean, he played legitimately well. It wasn't just like a pure luck fest the entire day. I totally agree. I went back and watched. I was very impressed. I was much more impressed than I expected to be.

I know. So now. single screened that game for a while. Like I just like I turned there. I had red zone on my computer there by my monitor here and I just single screened it, put it on. I went back and watched every Mike, every Mike White throw today.

And I left feeling very differently that I might have expected coming into it. So now I don't think Robert Solid did himself any favors of how he handled this after the game. I don't know what the question was. You take, pulling these quotes one at a time piecemeal is sometimes difficult. But him saying that you never. rule anything out when it comes to what Mike White status is going to be for the long term when you draft a guy second overall. I think we know, but what a great moment for Mike White. For as long as he's going to be the quarterback, I don't know. It's worth getting excited about if you're a Jets fan.

This is something, this was very fun. And now you get a national spotlight for Mike White on Thursday night. We know he's going to start again. This is where all comes crashing down. I mean, I love the game ball afterwards. You can tell the team is fired up for him. It's like, That's, it's cool. It really is. But yeah, I don't know, I don't know about throwing some gasoline on the QB controversy fire for whatever reason with your rookie quarterback who's been struggling with doing all the things we just said Mike White was doing.

Oh, goodness. Yeah, we're not even halfway home and they got that going for them. So let's, let's go for it. A great moment for the Jets somehow is complicated. All right, guys. Remember, like a good neighbor, state farm is there. Get a quote today. Why don't you explain this to me like I am.

an eight-year-old. All right. Every week, we like to talk about something that needs some explanation, something that the team struggle, a unit struggle. It's like, how do this actually happen? This is hard to come up with one this week. I'll be honest, because a lot of the teams that fell flat, we expect to fall flat. I don't need to pile on the falcons at this stage of things.

We don't need to talk about the lions getting blown out by the Eagles, right? Maybe the Vikings might have been the answer to this if we hadn't planned the show before the Sunday night game. But the thing I landed on just because of the expectations we have for this team is something that we've talked about a decent amount on the show this year. And that's the Brown's offense, right? The Brown's offense scores, let me look at the number here, which I don't have in front of me.

The Brown's offense scores 10 points against the Steelers. They lose a game 15 to 10. This is not the type of team we expected Cleveland to be coming into the season, right? And Baker Mayfield played okay, but I just didn't expect it to look this hard. for the Brown's offense consistently. When you watch them, it just feels disjointed. It feels difficult. The Steelers defense deserves a lot of credit for that.

We'll get into some of those examples. But I just felt disappointed again watching them today. It's like, man, this team is four and four. They're struggling. I don't really think they have a clear path out of this. O'Dell Beckham is just a non-factor. They look sloppy at times. I don't know what their offensive identity is.

They just, they lack flexibility. With the way we talk about other teams and why we think the bills are the best team in the AFC or why we talk about those NFC teams in these glowing terms is because you know what, we can pivot to this. If we can't do this, then we can do that. And I just don't feel that way about Cleveland's offense right now. And I don't know how to pinpoint exactly why that is, but that's just the overall sense I get when I watch them. It's anytime they're on offense and they're not in heavy personnel, you're just like,

uh, yeah. When they're spread out, like yick. Yick. Exactly. And that's what you're saying about pivoting to win. That is being a true contender. Not just like, oh, we might make the playoffs, but like a true final four team is how we have

to find a different way to win no matter what the circumstances are. Because the weather's not always going to be perfect. The refs aren't going to be always going your way. You're not going to be catching every ball. The blocks aren't going to be always there. You're not always going to be healthy. And that's what it's just this offense just has like no synergy. It's a run game-wise, it's like, yes, it all makes sense.

When they're in 12 and 13 personnel, yes, we love it. It looks great. And as soon as they get into 11 personnel or they start going spread when it's not the heavy personnel spread where they can get a defensive base, like their kryptonite is sub-defensive personnel. As soon as the defense gets a nickel, they're like, we're screwed. And it's kind of weird. It's like, oh, well, okay, well, Landry's been hurt, but he's getting healthy.

Okay, we got OBJ. He can win one-on-once, but then if you want to, I run a quick game. You can't run anything over the short area over the middle. The ball's not going to get complete completed because Baker's not good at those. Baker is, I'm going to make the joke again, he's russ without the athleticism. That's that little area of the field is dead. So what's OBJ best at slants in breakers where he can run and get away from guys.

Baker's not good at throw on those. Baker is an out ball thrower. He is a deep curl out route corner ball thrower because he has to see it outside. And so this team is so game script dependent. And that's just kind of what the path they're on right now. It's kind of, it sucks because you like, you love the line when they're healthy. And like you like a lot of the pieces. But then it's just like they're just so limited as soon as they have to drop back and pass.

As soon as they have to just do anything that's like working the middle of the field, it just feels like it's so, so hard. I totally agree. And I think that when you watch them, part of me, especially on third down when you're sitting there. And again, against the steward maybe this isn't the best. answer, but just overall, it's like, I want to see a stack or a bunch or something. Yeah. But my thought is, and this is just me reading into it, I think they believe he needs it spread out so he can see it. And so if your quarterback needs to see this a certain way, and that

doesn't allow you to create separation for your receivers, you kind of run into this static world on third down where it just feels so stagnant and flat all the time. And that's what it felt like again today. And then you combine that with them getting whipped up front in a way we don't normally see, right? Losing Conklin early in the game and coming into this, it would have been better if he hadn't even played because then at least you have a baked in plan for how to help out your right tackle.

But now when you do it midstream, they have Hans. Blake Hans, Blake Hans, one on, was that his name? Yes. They have Blake Hans. It is. And he's been great in the run game, by the way. He is there. They've been able to run the ball.

consistently, even with him in the game for the last couple weeks when Will's been out or when Conklin's been out, he's been very good there. But he can't block T.J. Watt one-on-on-on. And that's not his fault. But having to kind of adjust to that in the middle of the game is difficult. That came up a couple times. The

Steelers interior their defensive line was awesome today. Chris Wormley and guys like that, obviously Hayward's a great player, but just the amount of control they had where they're playing head-up, controlling guys, not allowing any movement side to side.

It was very, very hard for the Browns to run in this game. And when you're not winning up front and when your passing game is as lifeless and stagnant as theirs tends to be, you run out of advantages. And I think that's exactly what we saw today. And I just, the reason I want to talk about this and the reason I kind of back to this is I just don't know what they do now. Like what is the path out of here this season? Because our expectations for them were so high coming into the year.

and it just feels so hard for them right now. It does. I just want to speak real quick about like the adjusting stuff. Like when you're, this is why a guy like being banged up and then going out and you have to play your backup and then like when you put a game playing together and you're playing a game playing together against a defensive end especially that can truly wreck your game on offense like a T.J.

Watt when I was with the Raiders. It was von Miller. It's you have to put together every dropback pass and go like, okay. If we're doing a five step or a. seven step. We have to give Chip help to the right tackle. Okay, we have to play. We have to do the formations. Formations on your game plan will be the left hash and right hash. Some are left hash only. Some are right hash only. Some are like, oh, we don't care. We can just run on either hash. But sometimes when you have a really, really, really good end, you can't get certain formations

because it's an open side. Yeah. So as soon as that guy gets out and it's like, oh, man, well, we can't run that. We can't run that. And then sometimes the play caller just was like, oh, he totally forgets. And it's just like, oh, that's right. Conklin's out. I totally forgot. guys. I forgot to bring chip help over there, blah, blah, blah. It's just extra effort. Everybody has to make. That's what it does. That's what good players do on other teams to you on offense or defense. But this offense, it's all the negatives from last year, it's just like almost like it's like times five now. It's like they're bad. It looks even worse now. It's every time they drop back when there's not that play action, it's not some,

you know, half roll shot play or anything where it requires some high low over the middle. It is everything's a one and done read. And it's not like where it's a one and done read where it's like, okay, here comes some fun creation. It's like panic time. It's so panicky. Watching Big Ben and Baker today was like, this is not fun quarterback. It's crazy how different it felt watching Mike White compared to watching Baker Mayfield. That is so terrifying.

Right. It's like it's playing. There's breaking contain and being chaotic like a Josh Allen, but it's like planned chaos. It's organized chaos where it's like he's still in control. Like he's understanding, okay, this is what I'm doing. I'm still on a clock. And he's worked to get to that. He's also a supernova of talent.

But that's what, hey, big athletes, man. But that's the thing with a baker, he comes out. It's like his head's going every which way. The ball's getting pumped 15 times. And he's not athletic enough to do that. And the fact that he isn't realized what his own ceiling is, self-awareness is such a skill. Knowing how do you win as a player is such an ability mentally and physically, just knowing that. And the fact that he doesn't understand, that's not what I am with a banged up shoulder

on top of that, it's like, come on, man. Like, you know, you got to get that clock churning, but get in the playbook and understand what's one to two on this play because it's just, everything seems so panicky as soon as the training wheels come off, which is scary. They, when things get muddy quickly for them, he starts to disintegrate. And that happened a lot today. 96, whose name I don't know, I'm doing really bad with names today. 96 got like instant penetration on a couple passways.

And as soon as he gets a little bit skittish to play is over. Louder milk had a really nice play. Just random guys are making plays for our mayor. No idea where he went to college are making plays for that Steelers defense. And just a little tiny things today. Like Beckham getting a little bit of alligator arms on that ball over the middle of the field. He does. In Joku had some really rough moments as a run blocker today.

And they just can't have that. They cannot have those slipups because their margin for error right now is so, so small. Yep. So where it's a reflection on their quarterback though. You know what I mean? Like we watch the Chargers and watching how hard that Chargers offense seems today. You see Justin Herbert make three free runners miss and then get a ball off.

And it turns in from a 10-yard sack to a first down. And it's like that's because that's what Justin Herbert can do. And that's what having a big athletic quarterback. They can do those things. They create something when it's hard. The Brown's offense has to be perfect for Baker. And it's like, but that's the thing. It's hard to be perfect every single play.

And that's what he's making them do. especially against a team with really good talent. And that's really well coached on the defense side of the ball. The one play where Wattsack that he had, he might have more than one, but the one that I remember, they did try to chip him. Johnson was over to that side. He spun inside so quickly that the running back didn't even touch him. And there's nothing that you could do about that. You're counting for it and you still can't do anything about it.

The right tackle was setting slow because he knows he has outside chip help. So he's setting slow and he still got beat inside. It was like, yeah, that's just a talent gap right there. That guy's an alien from another planet. So where are you at on the Steelers right now? Because it just feels like their defense is going to be able to keep doing this for them. And I just have zero faith in their ability to move the ball. And you can only win so many games 15 to 10 when Jarvis Landry fumbles at the end.

And you probably could have lost a bunch of different times. The fact that the score was 15 to 10. Oh, yeah. They ran the fake kick and Boswell got his smoked on it. Oh, man. The history of specialists getting lit up in Chiefs, or excuse me, in Steelers, Brown's games is storied at this point. Punters getting kicked in the face.

Kickers getting lit up on fake field goals. No specials are safe in those in AFC North Battles, man. It's like everybody, it's the new black and blue division, man. It's like even the kickers and punters are fair game. But I think as the Steelers as a whole, it's kind of, it's much as I love their defense. It's just always just going to be like, I see Big Ben, just being Big Ben. And it's just, I can't. Checking down two point conversions.

Dude, what was that? just sail it hit the crossbar play a game with yourself it was incredible it was absolutely incredible like in like one and a half seconds too zero downside and just checking it down just 10 yards short of the sticks on a two point conversion so how am I on the Steelers yeah right there that plays how I am with the Steelers it's like they're they're feisty their defense is going to like kick some ass this year like their their defense is legitimately fun to watch it's just that as as long as big Ben's back there they are limited one of the thing I wanted to mention, the Browns on Fort Down this year, it has been nightmarish.

Yeah. They are 7 of 17. They were, I think they're 7 of 18 on Fort Down this year after this game. They're 23rd in EPA per play on Fort Down. They go for it as much as any other team in the league. They've been miserable on Fort Down this year. And I think it's starting to make them a little bit apprehensive about it because they had a fourth and one from midfield and they took a delay a game and punt it.

You did not see that from them. over the first seven weeks of the season. He has been steadfast about committing to, we're going to do this, we're going to keep going for it. And I think not getting that fourth and one early in the game, Bryant, they had it blocked up. They had Bryant as a fullback in the backfield. He was leading up on the linebacker just completely whiffs.

Should have been an easy like one or two yard gain. Keep going, drive. And he just totally, and that's what happened today. They just had so many plays like that where it's Injoku missing a block or Bryant missing a block or Jarvis Landry dropping a ball or just a ball off of Richard Higgins's his hands. It just feels hard for them right now. We talk about what good teams and bad difference.

They're not a bad team, but difference between the good team stepping up is those role players. Those role players step up. And not only are they, they're at least average or net neutral when those role players are negatives. And it's okay, one or two can be because there's a bunch of role players on your team. But when you need those role players to be positives. And if they're negatives for you, that's when it's like, oh, boy, that's really. that's really hard because then it requires your stars to step up.

And then you look at this Browns team, you're like, who are the stars on offense other than, of course, Nick Chob, but that's it though. I mean, he's the only guy on that offense playing like a star.

And I think that's a really big deal. It is. When you have other teams in the AFC and other teams just period that have three, like the Titans, for example, right? Yeah. The Titans have real star power.

It's several different spots. And it just doesn't feel like the Browns have that right now. They don't have an AJ Brown. And I think that we could see some changes for them. their wide receiver spots. True. I just, I think that that's what could be coming.

Because the way that things are currently constructed right now, it's expensive and it is not really working. You guys talk about being students of the game. I am the fucking game, JR. All right. It's time to decide who's got the belt for week eight. This is a hard one. There weren't many clear options.

I'm going to give it to Amari Cooper because he made two monster plays at the end of that game from the titan. or from the Cowboys. And I don't know if they win that game without either of those catches. And I think it's an indication that this team has, again, star power on it. Even without Zach Prescott, they have a guy like that where it's like, all right, you know what? Our receiver is going to take over in the most important moments of this game.

And they win a game. They probably shouldn't have won with their backup quarterback. And now they just keep on rolling. I can't believe I just keep peeking at that score as we were getting ready and I was just like like they're still in it. Cowboys are just still in it. I just kept peeking like a couple minutes, watch a game, watch the game. I was like, oh, wow. And I had the game muted for a minute as I was typing stuff off and I was like, oh my God.

They're about to win. And it was Marie dunking on him in the red zone. That's exactly what it was. He dunked on him. That is a I'm just going to go up and get this ball. It was an incredible play. It was. It was pure.

It was like he knew he was going to do a pre-snap. He was like, I'm dunking on you right after. Like as this play is about the break. And with Amari this year, it happened a little bit last year. It was almost like this belt could go on the CD Lam as well, like a tag team titles with those two. Because what they're doing with Amari kind of using him as a Z going inside and out. And Amari's up. Amari's on the old.

Yeah. Right. But Amari's on the all. He's on the, you don't realize how big he is squad. Like we're going to have a good name for it. How old stars? Big than you think all stars. Because he just has the size.

the fact that he's like, his former first round pick, who just got this big deal. Like all of a sudden, he's willing to scrap and block now. It just speaks to what this Cowboys offense is because it's just a whole bunch of stars that are playing role playing for each other, which is,

I mean, they go supernova and that's just, that's not even talking about their offensive line. Not even talking about Zeke, Tony Pollard, they're two tight ends who are playing awesome. Also that heavy person is the lining up Lyle Collins and McGovern in the backfield today.

It's what I like to see. Gotta love it. Huge win for them. If we Later in the week We're going to talk with Vikings Because I think we probably

Should have a Vikings conversation At the after that game. We also are going to talk more about the Eagles We didn't talk about that game at all today. Ben Solock is going to come on the mailback tomorrow.

So we're obviously going to do a lot of Eagles chatter. So please send in your questions Either by email at Athletic Football Show at gmail.com Or give us a call. Leave us a voicemail

872 to 2222703. The other thing I wanted. I wanted to mention the name of number 96 on the Steelers because I felt bad. His name is Isaiah Bugs. I'm very upset that I did not remember that. He had a couple nice moments today. So just wanted to shout that out.

He deserved it. The entire Steelers front deserved it. So I wanted to give them their proper due. As always, guys, we really appreciate you guys listening. Please check back this week. Again, we will record the mailbag tomorrow. That'll be running on Tuesday with Ben. We'll have Mitchell Schwartz for you this week.

Bill Barnwell is going to be coming on the show on Wednesday to do a mid-week sort of, excuse me, a mid-season sort of check-in. So please come back and check all of that out. In the meantime, please rate and review the podcast on your podcast platform of choice. I would sincerely appreciate that. Please subscribe to The Athletic. It's theathletic.com slash football show. Please go check out Nate Substack, Silent Count.

He's doing something every single week that is worth reading. If you are not reading that, I highly encourage you to do it. For now, we're going to say good night. Appreciate you guys listening. Happy Halloween. We'll talk to you later. This was the Athletic Football Show.