The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Ranking the QB Supporting Casts in the NFC

Episode Date: June 28, 2024

ESPN’s Mike Clay joins Robert Mays to sort out which quarterbacks in the NFC have the best supporting casts around them and who benefits the most from personnel, coaching and play-calling.Follow Robert on Twitter: @robertmaysSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTube Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Football Show. Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. Great show for you guys today. We're doing our second installment of our supporting cast rankings. We started earlier this week doing the AFC with Damien Harris. If you have not gone back and listened to that show, encourage you guys to do so.

Explain it on that podcast, but I'm going to run through it again before we dig into this one. This is a look at everything that supports a quarterback on the offensive side of the ball. pass catchers, offensive line, what I'm calling play caller slash ecosystem. You know, what does the coaching staff do to lift the quarterback and the offensive situation

and foundation overall within that building? So we looked at all of that stuff for the AFC earlier this week. Today we are doing the NFC ranking every team 16 to 1 here to help me with that. It is Mike Clay from ESPN.

Mike does a lot of fantasy content for ESPN, but also just a ton of NFL-wide content for ESPN. And every year Mike does a unit rankings where he looks at every unit on every team in the NFL gives them a grade. And I use it. It's a resource that I go back to all the time. It's a very quick thing that you can just take a look at and be like, where what is, you know, how do we think about the Cardinals linebacker room?

And it's in there. And so I just felt that Mike was such a great person to have on to do this because he's already thinking about the league this way. He's already got this holstered. So very excited to dig into our conversation with Mike about the NFC supporting casts. Let's get to it. joining us now to do the NFC version of our supporting cast rankings as we are deep in June content season. It is Mike Clay from ESPN. Mike, very much appreciate you taking the time to do this with us today.

Yeah, of course, a long-time fan of the athletic. A lot of my former colleagues were there too. I don't think I've done this show yet, though, over the years. So it's nice to hang out with you. I've been a long-time follower of years as well. And as you know, there's a reason you invited me. I love this stuff, right? I'm evaluating roster year round and always like picking apart these teams, talking about the good stuff, the bad stuff, finding the sleepers, the busts

on a team level, super fun. So it's going to be great. You do a lot of fantasy stuff for ESPN, but I love kind of the league-wide work and the league-wide scope that you take on things. And every single year, I wait for you to tweet out your support, it's the unit rankings, is how you describe them, right? So you have truly

just a one-sheet unit grade where you have every single unit in the NFL for every single team graded. And it is one of those where I just, I quickly do the Twitter bookmark. And I know that if I need to access it at any point, it's a very good resource. So I felt you were a perfect person to do this with because you're already doing this anyway. Yeah, that's exactly right. I keep these year-round. I love it. It's like one of the first things I do in the off-season just to get it feel like, because it's so different when the Super Bowl, even when a team is eliminated after week 18,

their roster immediately changes. You're removing the free agents. You're removing, you're adding back the injured players and some teams are destroyed by injury. So that kind of thing gets overlooked. People think, oh, man, they just fell apart late last season. They're no good. How can you have them ahead of this team? Well, you know, they don't have any free agents and they had a lot of hurt players. So the team's actually good going into next year.

And that's how you can find these sneaky teams that are going to be good and vice versa. All right. So let's start this off. We're going to go from 16 to one the same way we did with the AFC. If you guys didn't listen to the AFC version of this, just a couple of ground rules. we're considering everything outside of the quarterback here. So this is skill position players, this is offensive line talent. And then the third bucket that I was using on the last show was infrastructure slash play caller.

So this is not just who's calling plays, but the overall offensive ecosystem of that team and that organization. Because sometimes there's stuff that goes beyond just to the offensive coordinator or play caller is that does it does work in propping up the quarterback. So we're taking a very holistic approach with this. And with that in mind, let's get going here. Who did you have at number 16 in the NFC? All right. So number 16 here won't be a surprise. I mean, it might be surprised to some people because of who I have a 15.

I will get to that a second. But I'm going to go with kind of a layup here and go with Arizona. I think once you take quarterback out of the equation, I think the Cardinals are dead last year for a variety of reasons. So I don't know. Is that where you have? Your reaction makes me think it's not. So I have them at 11.

11. That's a big gap. Interesting. Okay. So here, and we'll go through some of these. And the reason that I had the Cardinals ahead of a couple teams that I just put, I put just behind them is that I think Drew Petsing did an awesome job last year. And I have a lot of faith in him as a play caller. And I really use that as a tiebreaker with a couple of these teams that either have new play

callers or first year play callers. I think the line has a chance to be better this year. You know, Paris Johnson in year two, you draft Isaiah Adams in the third round, obviously rookies, who knows. I think that group overall can be solid. And I'm really putting a lot of weight into what Marvin Harrison Jr. can be in year one. And I know that that's dicey, but the promise of him, the fact that they were the most efficient running team in the NFL over the second half of last season combined with faith and petzing,

as I was doing this, I expected to have them lower. And I kept kind of inching them up because I've seen him do this recently and I've seen him do this well from the play caller slash ecosystem side of things. Yeah. So look, totally fair. I get it. There's a lot of upside, obviously, with, you know, with Marvin Harrison bringing him in. And usually you see these wide receivers picked in the top 10 C huge target here. So he can have a big impact.

Tray McBride looks like a find at the tight end position. But, you know, the fact is maybe I'm not as high on the offensive line. I think that's part of the problem. I know they have a lot of guys that played a lot of snaps last year, but I don't think they have a single guy that had an above-average BFF grade last year. You look at the tackle, like Johnson and Williams, their pass-block win rates below average. You know, I just not relative to the other projected fives,

I think this is maybe a bottom five offensive line. There's some upside there if these guys pan out, but it's not a unit I'm too pumped about. And then at the other positions, it's just, it's just depth concerns, you know. I mean, behind Harris, it's like Zay Jones, Michael Wilson. They have a rookie and then Eli Higgins behind Tray McBride. You know, running back, everybody's happy at running back. So I'm not, it's not like Connor Benson's really moving the needle a ton for me.

So I don't know. I think Olin's maybe the big differentiator for us, but I'm not overall impressed. It's just a very top heavy group of skill guys. I'm willing to concede all of this. I know this is aggressive. This is a bet on what they're building there being a force multiplier and having this be more than some of the parts. That is what I'm seeing as a potential path here,

and that's why I push them up a little bit more. And again, you look at some of these other teams, like, I don't want to spoil my list, but I have them ahead of teams that have more roster talent than they do just because I'm concerned about play caller changes. I'm concerned just about what they've built and the foundation of what offense feels like in those places. And again, that's why I push them up just a little bit

because I do think that even with a lack of talent, they got the most out of the talent that they had last year, and I think that they can continue to do that. All right. Who'd you have at 15? All right. 15 for me is a team I easily could have put glass in it.

And by the way, if we're including quarterback, offensive support, cast, defense, everything, this team would be 32nd in my rankings, including the AFC, everything.

That's the New York Giants. I have them at 15. So you have them at 15 as well. Okay. So I don't know who you have at 16 yet. Are you just going to, are you just going to drop yours when I say mine? You're going to say who,

okay. Yes. Yeah. That's just the easiest way to do it. Okay, fair enough. Yeah, I mean, this one speaks for itself, right? I mean, look, I think Devin Singletary is a very underrated player at the running back position, but every team has like a standout at running back these days. It's just a deep position. So that's one of the shakiest in the NFL, Malik neighbors, hopefully is a home run pick, but look, half of the players picked in the

first round are probably not getting the second contract. We know that. You know, half of them are going to bust. So we can't just assume that in depth there is better than in years past, but obviously a little bit of a concern. Darren Waller retires that leaves you with questions. marks at the tight end position. And then O-line, you know, below-average group. I mean, Andrew Thomas is a hit. Illuminaur at left guard should be in an improvement. And there are some potentially bringing John Runny and two should help a little bit.

But Evan Neal just hasn't been great so far. And they have enough question marks or under, I will say under below average players, that it's a below average group overall for me. I don't have any information about this. I wouldn't be surprised if Illuminaw was the right tackle sooner rather than later by the time we got into this season. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

He's going to start somewhere, and it might be right, Cappell, you're right. I think they'll probably try to have him at left guard because you need to try to salvage Evan Neal at this point, but they bop him out there and they just say, we'll piece the interior together. That wouldn't be surprised if by week five, they realized that was their best solution. The only reason that I do not have the New York Giants last is because we have seen Brian Dable and Mike Kafka be above average play callers and offensive creators in the last two years. Two years ago, I thought they did a really good job with the talent that they had.

And obviously, Brian Daible did an excellent job when he was the Bill's offensive coordinator. By roster talent alone, it wouldn't even be a conversation. They have a totally unproven group of skill position players outside of one rookie, and the offensive line is actively bad. So for me, they are absolutely in the bottom two no matter how you cut it. And again, the preserved faith and the lingering faith that I have in Daible and Kafka is the only reason they're not in the last spot. All right.

Yeah. Totally fair. By the way, if Neil doesn't, if they can't get Neil going and they bench him and move a little biter to right tackle and move someone else into left guard, that's even worse. I mean, that's just not good.

Like, they have to get that figured out for sure. Who do you have at 14? All right. 14 for me, this might be a little bit of a surprise, but when you take Derek Carr out of it, the Saints supporting cats,

they're not very good. So I have them at 14. I also had the Saints at 14. Okay. All right. All right. I thought that one might raise an eyebrow. I think to people listening,

maybe they would. you would expect better from this team. But look, I think that the running back room has potential to be really good, especially if they get something out of Kent Dray-Biller. But then you go down to like wide receiver, Chris Alave, superstar, love them a lot. Big time questions after that. And you could talk about the upside of receipt to eat all day long. A lot of teams have a really good one.

Most teams have a good or proven, maybe even a standout number two. Even more teams have a really good slot receiver or a three. The Saints have a massive question marks. after Chris Olbe, Bob Means, Cedric Wilson, A.T. Perry, these are depth guys. They're guys getting cut by teams in some cases. So big problems there. And then tight end, I mean, Juan Johnson just had surgery. There's always been potential of that as I'm worked out. Foster Moro, chasing Mills, obviously, you can put them whatever position you want, fun player, but also 34 years old, which is something to keep

in mind. And then, of course, probably no Ryan Ramcheck on the offensive line. Massive, massive concern there. You're going to probably have a rookie left tackle. and this O-line has just gone the wrong direction in the past couple of years. And it wasn't long ago. They had one of the best O-Lines in the NFL. Trevor Penning hasn't worked out. I wish we got a little more.

Like, I feel better about McCoy and Ruiz than what their pedigree was. It's just a, it's a problematic O-line. It could go down as one of the worst in the NFL without Ramcheck. Without Ramcheck, I think you could make an argument they belong even lower than this. And one of the only reasons they're not

is because Chris Olava is here. And you can extend it to the coaching stuff. I mean, Clint Kubi acted a fine job when he was in Minnesota, but I don't think he's somebody that's going to be consistently moving the needle for them and lifting kind of questions they have about the overall roster talent. So I have no issues at all with the Saints being this low. I had them at 14 too, and it wasn't that hard for me to put them there. I wasn't hemming and hawing about it.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, they might end up around 500 because of their defense. You still have a lot of potential on that side of the ball, but the offensive depth is, it's an eyebrow race. I don't know what they're like, are they going to trade for Brandon Ayuk or what? Like, I don't know what they're thinking on that side of the ball. It's going to be a tough road. They seem like they're in a holding pattern this year.

I think they understand that everyone there is probably a little bit pre-fired on the coaching staff, and they're just figuring out what's going to come next. That is the overall vibe I get with the 2024 New Orleans Saints. All right. So who'd you have at 13? All right, 13. I'm going with, you know what, this might be the team you have. Maybe not.

You know what? It's the commanders. I'm going to commanders here. I have them dead last. You have them last. Okay. I thought there was two candidates to be last. And yeah, so this one makes sense for sure.

I'm curious where we're going to be different on this one. You know, I think that the reason they're not lower is because I like the running backs. I think Brian Robinson's a really underrated player. Him and Austin Eckler is just a really perfect one-two punch, even if Eckler is a little older. John Dotson, maybe now in a better circumstance, he can make a leap here. Remember he's a first round picked a couple years ago along with Terry McLaren.

And then, you know, the tight ends, obviously. that's the major concern area there, Ertz and Sinatra rookie. So that is a problem area. And then offensive line, I have them a little below average. You know, they, I don't think this is a terrible group by any means, but they definitely have some questions at some of these positions, you know, especially on the left side of the ball with Allegretti and Lucas is my projected left side of the ball. The other side's okay at least.

So that probably helps them out more of a below average line, not like a horrific line. I had them last because I'm worried about the offensive. line. I really do think that it's like a bottom three or four unit in the NFL, especially with what's going on at the left tackle spot and the fact that they just didn't address it outside of a third round swing. You know, maybe you get five by the middle of the season that you feel better about. But what it looks like on paper, I mean, Al Goretti's been a depth piece for the most part during his time with the chiefs. And, you know, Tyler Biotis is fine. But I think overall, you're shooting for the middle at best with this group. And along the offensive line, I think

that's a dangerous place to be. I, the reason, how I slotted these, when I was looking at this, these three teams are pretty comfortable. I was like, all right, they're the last three teams for me. And the reason I push the Saints up a little bit further is because I think Oliva is the best receiver, proven receiver among all three of these teams, even though I do like McCorn. And the Ryan Ramchuk possibility gave the Saints offensive line the edge over the Giants and Washington.

The reason that I put Washington behind the Giants is because, I have more faith in Daibble and Kafka than I have in the people in charge of the Washington offense. The Washington offense is Cliff Kingsbury, which wasn't great last time we saw Cliff. It was kind of underwhelming. Their offensive line coach is the guy who just got fired as the offensive line coach of the Giants last year. And what they were doing, their passing game coordinator is the guy who was the offensive coordinator for the Eagles who got fired a few games into last season. So the people that are overseeing this, I do not have a ton of faith and them lifting the players that they have

based on the recent track record of the group that they have put together on that side of the ball. That's interesting. I mean, I feel like Cliff Kingsbury's second and third year were pretty good. I mean, they were one of the top scoring offenses in year two, three touchdowns a game.

That's a big number. And then I think it was like 2.6 or seven the next year, both of those well above league average. So they were kind of cruising and then year four injuries, everything kind of just fell apart and he got fired. But so I think I've been kind of found myself defending him a little bit. I think there's some recent optimism, maybe a second time around as well, will help things. And then I think with the O line,

it's just really the middle and right side. You mentioned Viata's that was like a big bridge in signing. And then Sam Cosme, he's been pretty good the last couple years. Yeah, he's a good player. Yeah, I think he's good too. And Wiley kind of can hold down the forward. I mean, offensive tackle is certainly a concern. But I think there's enough there that it can be serviceable. Like it's not a, it's not like 20, 23 Titans level of like, oh my God. Like this is going to destroy this team, which, you know, it obviously did. So I guess I'm just, look, I'm with you. There's a bottom tier here and they're in it. But I think there's just a little bit more room for optimism.

He's a pinch higher than you are. When I look at the heights that that Cardinals offense reached when Cliff was there, I saw Kyler playing at the highest level he's ever played in the NFL. Like the downfield production and downfield accuracy when that offense was rolling at its best in like 2021. I just think that's a lot of the quarterback driving that and a lot of nice bounces of the ball. I think just overall, like, the foundation of what that offense looked like, and them having a system that had layers to it and had an identity to it and something you could rely on, I think that there was a lot to be desired then, and I'm worried there's going to be a lot to be desired here. Yeah, fair enough. I guess this will be a real true test for Kingsbury.

Like, how does, I mean, you could say that part of Kingsbury, you know, part of Murray's success was connected to Kingsbury. We'll see what he can do with Jaden Daniel, very similar style quarterback. So I'll tell you, it's definitely one of the more fascinating storylines we're going to watch. Who'd you have at 13? All right. 13 for me is a team that made the playoffs last year. I went with the Buccaneers on this one. Where are you at them?

I had them at 12. Oh, okay. All right. We're close, though. We're same stuff. I'm surprised you have them that low. Because if you're, if you're going to wait roster talent a little bit higher,

why do you have the Bucks down there so far? So, you know, I think that, well, first of all, I'm not, I'm not allowed to say anything negative about Rashad White. He, you know, I rank the Bucks running back. room last last year because they were you know they had white and barely played you know it was it was very unproven group and he jumped into my dms on instagram i wasn't thrilled about it so uh i have to be careful i say about uh about him but uh no look i think he's fine it's uh it's probably a league average maybe a little bit of a low group um depth is a little bit of a concern at receiver uh but

evans and godwin's pretty good tight ends uh underwhelming with kate otton at the top uh but really comes down to um just an uninspiring offensive line for me i mean i look at their all line and i think It's certainly below average. I mean, Tristan Works is very good. The tackles are fine. I would say the interior is more of a concern, and you're going to have a first round rookie at center. Most likely, Guard is a major red flag for me.

So I think that kind of drags them down quite a bit. Maybe you're a little higher on the O line there. I think I have a little bit more faith because Mock heading into year two is a small school guy. I wonder what sort of strength concerns may be alleviated heading into year two. And I'm bullish on Barton. I just think that adding that sort of presence, know that rookie offensive linemen, it's always a crapshoot, but their running game specifically suffered so much last year because of what they had on the interior. And I'm just high on him as a

prospect. And so, but the Bredesen thing, that's a concern. Like, he was a part of that Giants offensive line last year. And I think that should be something that people should worry about. But everywhere else, I think they're okay. And obviously, I think the receiving talent, even with some debt concerns, which is totally fair, by the way. I just think that Evans played at such a high level last year, that that pushes them up a little bit more. If they didn't have a first year NFL offensive play caller, I would probably have them higher on this list based on the players they have on the roster. But we have not seen Liam Cohen do it at this level. And we're going to talk about a couple former RAM staffers that are now coordinators as we go through this list. And

the fact that Liam Cohen and Kevin Carberry, who's their offensive line coach in Tampa, were part of the staff that, how do I politely say this? A staff that was purged a little bit before last year's staff with the Rams came in where I think they really did click into who they wanted to be.

I think that's telling. So that's probably what gives me a little bit of pause. It's just I'm not sure what the infrastructure, the play calling, the guys in charge of that, how that's going to look ultimately. Yeah, that's totally fair.

I'm just, I'm confused about, you know, the interior, of that line is tricky because it's just so hard to like like I look I guess first round centers have been pretty good in recent years like they have panned out so I guess that's a that's a good news for for barn but you look at like brettes said it and even even mock last year like their pff grades and pass block win rate like atrocious like a level that you're like yeah there's some hope there for you know for a guy that's entering his second year but it's enough relative to the rest of the league where I'm like yeah that could be a big problem for this team so that's kind of where that comes

I totally understand that. I think having a pessimistic slant on that based on the way that they played last season, I'm totally fine with that. I'm kind of seeing it from the other side as I project them forward, but I don't think that that's a given by any stretch. And that was actually 12 for you, right? You're the bucks at 12. Yeah, I have bucks at 12. Okay, yeah. So I also had the bucks at 12. Okay. So we're in the same path. Okay. So let's keep on rolling. Who's you have at 11? Okay. Next for me is the Panthers, which- I had the Panthers at 13. You have the Papers. Or your Panthers 13th. Okay. Yeah. So I guess I'm, I feel a little more optimistic about them. I mean, it was such a mess last year.

The coaching situation cannot be worse. And I've been impressed with Canales so far. I know you've kind of taken the lead here with talking about the coaches. But like what he did with Baker Mayfield last year was super impressive from his career year. So I'm feeling optimistic about what he could do with Bryce Young. And the skill guys around him just just much better. I mean, last year Bryce Young's efficiency throwing to Adam Thieland was good.

like it was solid. It was just solid numbers. When they connected well, everyone else combined was atrocious. I mean, it was just bad. And if you saw the names on the list who he was throwing to it,

it would check out. So bringing in Deonti, Jonathan. Most people wouldn't recognize half the names on the list of the guys he was throwing to. Yeah, I mean, most of them were tight ends.

They were like four deep, a tight end routine all those guys in. And they were playing the tight ends. It's like number one receivers on vertical routes outside the numbers because the lack of talent that they had. It was really rough to watch. I did a lot of,

Panthers rewatching over the last week, because we did our NFC South lingering question show with brand on Thursday. It was not an enjoyable experience. I never want to watch the 2023 Panthers again for as long as I live. Well, hopefully it's a better show this year. But it does, I mean, the changes do give me some optimism that maybe Young has a shot. You know, year two is the breakout age for quarterbacks. And he has better players around them. I mean, Deonti Johnson is one of the best route runners in the league. And look at it, they don't need a lot out of him as a, you know, first round rookie, but just having him as the three or maybe the four with Mingo in year two. will be better.

Jonathan Brooks out of the backfield eventually. And, you know, their offensive line is, again, it's fine. I think they have a slightly above average offensive line in Carolina. I think that we need some, we'll say development for some of these guys, but bringing in like Damien Lewis and Robert Hunt at Guard is just like, that's big upgrades right there. So the biggest question mark might be Corbett at center right now. But, you know, Moten's a star.

I mean, they have some pieces in place there on the line to have a good unit. Yeah, you can make an argument that the Panthers might even be higher than this based on the offensive line additions, adding Deonté Johnson. The fact that Dave Canellis, we've seen him do this. You know, he did a really good job with Baker last year. And we talked about this on the show I did with Seth that ran on Thursday. But I just think that some of the ways that they unlocked Baker in Tampa where it's spread out, a lot of empty, a lot of him, allowing him to make quick decisions, play point guard. That's exactly what Bryce Young needs. So it's not like, oh, this guy's a quarterback whisperer.

We're just dropping him with Bryce Young. This is going to work. A lot of the actionable stuff that they did with Baker, I actually think applies to things that they should try with Bryce. So I'm optimistic and hopeful about what that marriage can ultimately look like. I just think that the receiving core, even with Deonté Johnson, Legget is a rookie, who knows what his skill set's going to look like. He had one year production in college.

The offensive line, I think, has a chance to be better just because the last two times we've seen Frank Reich as a play caller and a head coach. the offensive line was awful. Like the Colts offensive line was so bad in 2022. They made no personnel changes to the line, zero. And they were like a top six unit last year. So I think just changing who's in charge and changing the staff and just the way they're approaching offense,

there's a chance you get better play out of that group. And especially with the quano, you need to. So I think they can. But this is just one of those where without seeing it, it's hard to push them up further. especially ahead of a team that has Mike Evans as its number one receiver. Yeah, totally fair. I'm with you.

All right. So who'd you have at 11? That was Panthers. Panthers were 11. 10 for me is probably, this is going to be interesting one. I'm curious to see where you fall on this team. I have Dallas at 10. I had them higher than that, but I struggled with 7 through 10.

I think you could do a lot of moving around in the group that I had 7 through 10. I had Dallas at seven, and a couple reasons for this. One, I think that Mike McCarthy last year did a pretty damn good job. Just in terms of the offensive construction, what things looked like, he did better than I ever expected him to. I think they ran out of gas creatively as we got into the back half of the season. I don't think that they had ways to build on what they wanted that offense to be. But I think the way they've developed offensive linemen over the last few years,

I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt with how young Nassau. group is and I think C.D. Lamb is a really, really good player. So there are enough strengths, even with some of the questions that as I was doing this, I was like, am I really going to put them behind this team? Am I really going to put them behind this team? So that's how they got all the way up to seven. But I'm willing to concede that there are definitely some question marks to worry about. Yeah, big questions. I mean, maybe the worst running back room in the NFL with Zek at his age right now, wide receiver. You have CD Lamb and that, look, that's going to put them on a certain level, but they did not get a lot of Brandon Cooks last year.

They're not get a lot out of him. And behind him, it's Jalen Tolbert, Turpin, who's more of a returner. I mean, they have big depth concerns at a position where you need to be three or four deep. And then, you know, I do, tight-end position is solid there. I like Ferguson. I think he's a nice player. Yeah, me too. I mean, I think it's a fine position.

I think Ferguson is an above average starter. So I agree with you there. But then, you know, the key, obviously, is the offensive line. I mean, this is not your older brother's Dallas offensive line. You know what I mean? Like they have some problems here. Tyrone Smith has gone now as well. You're going to have probably two rookies starting with BB and then Tyler Guyton, who by most accounts was supposed to be a developmental guy, not a guy that steps in day one.

I mean, now you're going to throw them in to this, you know, pass heavy, highly productive offense and protecting Dak Prescott's left side. I mean, that's going to be a bold move. So guards good. I mean, they have Smith and Martin great, but otherwise. And I'm not a big Terran Steel guy either at right tackle. So the offensive line is probably the. the worst we've seen from them in a long time.

And it's a real thing. Like, this could be a concern. They're a big problem. I think that there might be a little bit of reputation pushing this forward for me, and I'm willing to give that. But I think that Terrence Steele one year further removed from major, major knee surgery. And I expect him to look better in 2024 than he did last year. It has not been that long since we saw him playing at a pretty high level.

And I just think that when you have pillars like a Tyler Smith, like a Zach Martin, Cooper Bibi playing between those two guys, that elevates somebody like that. The Tyler Guyton part of this, that is a major question. And like you said, he was considered a developmental guy, and now we're going to have him dropped in and be the day one starter at left tackle. That's scary.

But this team, and I know that they've gone through several offensive line coaches over the last decade. Like, this isn't a, organizations don't make offensive lines, but I think so consistently they have developed these guys correctly that I just have more faith in their ability to get the most out of those two rookies and have this feel a little bit more seamless

than it might for some teams with a more spotty track record at those spots. Yeah, totally fair, totally fair. Definitely have pedigree on that whole line which is going to make it interesting. Yeah, trust me, I didn't love it. I did not love it. Typing in Jalen Tolbert's name and I literally at running back have NAA

in the running back spot. I was like, yeah, it doesn't really matter. The fact that I still did that and still push them up to seven, I think shows like the overall faith I have in what sort of offense this was last year. It petered out at the end, but they played really good football for some stretches of last season. Yeah, it's really interesting, though, at they had all the departures in the offseason. They barely made any additions whatsoever.

And it's still like, you know what? Overall, including the defense of the quarterback, they're like, still a good team, maybe the best team in the NFC East. So it's kind of interesting how much talent they've had. Who'd you have a nine? All right, nine for me. this is definitely one of the more fascinating ones for me, and that's Seattle. I'm going to Seattle.

I also at Seattle at 9. Okay, all right, good. I'm glad we're on the same page here because this is an interesting one. New coaching staff, of course, with McDonald, who I'm a fan of obviously did great things in Baltimore last season with a team defensively on paper. I didn't think it was very good. I thought Baltimore's defense was going to be a problem last year, and instead it was quite the opposite. New, obviously, a new offensive play color, color there with Ryan Greb as well. But what's really interesting about this group is the skill guys.

the skill positions are excellent. I mean, you have one of the best trios in the NFL with D.K. Medcaps, Smith, and Jigua and Tyler Lockett, and then running back one of the best duos with Ken Walker and Zach Charbonnet as well. Noah Pham will see what they get out of it in. But overall, that's great. The problem is they might have the worst offense flying in the NFL. I mean, that is the big red fly for me.

You disagree with that. I have concerns. I have big concerns. My assumption, and this is based on nothing, I think we'll see Christian Haynes as the starting right guard sooner rather than later, just because of how Anthony Bradford played last year.

And I would hope that with some better health at the tackle spots, we can get better play from that group over an extended season. Because two years ago, they were fine. It wasn't a huge concern two years ago the way it was last year where it torpedoed the offense for stretches

of last season. Yeah, I mean, I just... You're right. Lucas was serviceable as a rookie, but remember he was a third rounder. Like, what is the ceiling there? Like, is he just going to be an average player? Or is he going to be, like, he obviously had a big step back last year.

Missed a lot of time, but wasn't good when he played. Average would be a huge improvement on what they got last year. Totally fair. Totally fair. I have him graded slightly below average for now. Again, relative to 32 starters.

Bradford, though, you mentioned him. That's a problem at right guard. And again, if he's not the answer and you go, Haynes, that's a third round rookie. You don't know. I mean, more third rounders are going to be bust than are going to pan out. Nick Harris, at center. Lakin Tomlinson, I mean, he's dropped off. I mean, he could be, at times,

he's been a really good player, but not as of late. And then, I mean, Cross is a strength, I would say. I mean, it's not like if you're looking at the numbers, it's not like a guy that's posted elite numbers of PFF grade, Plast Block win rate, you know, like he's been fine, but it's just, I don't see enough here. I think this could be a big problem again this year. I would not be surprised if the unit ultimately was a hindrance on who this team was on offense. for me, the thing that pushes them up a little bit higher than team like the Bucks, who I think is kind of in a similar spot roster talent-wise, a team one I won't spoil, but the reason they're ahead of a couple teams where I think it's kind of close,

even if I've never seen him do it in the NFL, I thought that Washington's offense was fucking awesome. Like, watching what Ryan Grubb did last year and the way that that thing is built, I really am putting a lot of faith in what he, that plan is going to look like. with the receiving talent that they have and the quarterback that they have. So this is me just kind of blindly believing in Ryan Grub as an offensive coordinator

and in thinking that we might see, obviously Tyler Lockett's getting a little bit older, but in terms of where Lockett, McCaff, and JSN are in their careers currently, I think this type of offense and this type of vision is well suited to get the most out of who they currently are in 2024 and I'm actually very excited to watch it. Yeah, it should be fine.

I think, God, that offense was probably better than you realized last season. It felt like a slide back, right, from where they were in the past. And part of that was the O-line problem. Part of it was just like, I think variants, like just not turning good drives into touchdowns. It was just, I just feel like they were better that it seemed last year. So I do have optimism because of that reason, perhaps the coaching change, the skill guys, but I'm worried about that old line. I totally get that.

And I do think that part of the reason that it was a frustrating group to watch. And you're right. when you look at it, they were like top 12 in every metric by the end of the season. It's weird to think about how frustrating the journey was and what the end result looked like. And I do think that the grub approach to offense is a good combination of pushing the ball downfield, which Gino does extremely well. I mean, I would argue as well as anybody in the NFL, but there are also more layups in the way that they play.

A lot more stacks and bunches on third down, option routes to guys like JSN. Like, their struggles on third down against man coverage with, the type of offense that they were playing were not surprising. I think that with more JSN and with a new offensive coordinator, those problems get alleviated a little bit, and there's a chance we get the best elements of who they were last year, and we start to erase some of the worst elements of who they were last year. So if that happens, it's exciting.

Yeah, I'm with you. I mean, remember, JSN was so young last year, too. You would definitely expect a leap forward, and they just haven't gotten enough out of no offense. That guy was a first round pick. I mean, he was misutilized the last couple of years. He was good in Denver. And then he just kind of disappeared in Seattle.

So hopefully the new staff will make some use of them there. Who'd you have at eight? All right, eight for me. I'm going Minnesota on this one. Yeah. So where are you out there? I have Minnesota higher than that. I actually have Minnesota in my top five.

Interesting. Okay, I could see that. I mean, there's a couple interesting teams here, but I can see that because I've been kind of like an offensive line apologist for the Vikings. I'm not really worried about the interior of the line now,

but I really like their tackle situation with Darassan O'Neal. I'm sure you would agree with that. Interior is probably one of the larger red flags for them. And then, you know, the skill guys look, if T.J. Hawkinson's tricky because he's injured and we'll see how much we get out of him last year, but this year, but he's one of the best in the league. He's been a great one-two punch with Jefferson and Addison, who was the first round pick last year.

Depth of concern there, though. Running back, not exciting me, obviously, one of the shake year in the league with an older Aaron Jones and Ty Chandler. So I think all in all, middle of the pack group, certainly, though, was having two really good tackles like that, and one, frankly, that's elite, is enough to push them up the board a little for me. I just think having Jefferson and what he gives to an offense and the way that he allows you to dictate to other teams, it's just such an advantage. So he, I think, even outweighs having a number one receiver, any of the other one number one receivers on this list. And there's a huge way

with him. I thought that Jordan Addison played well last year. I'm excited to see what he looks like in a full year with Justin Jefferson opposite him. This ranking and putting them that high, I think, chooses to see the Hawkinson thing working out and having him be a contributor sooner rather than later, I'm with you along the offensive line. Love the tackles, concerns about the interior. That's not going away. I think that's going to be something that we worry about

until they give us a reason not to. The reason that I kept pushing them up and the reason that I put them ahead of one team that I think is probably going to be a little bit controversial, I like the fact that this is a team with a play-calling offensive head coach, and it's a staff that has been together for the last few years.

even if you remove the quarterback, I just think that having an offensive staff intact now for three years in a row, this is a group that can build on ideas. They can figure, all right, this is what we didn't do well, this is what we do do well. This is how to get the most out of this. Even going from year one to year two,

not all of it came together, but something like going out and getting Josh Oliver, being a little bit more of a 12 personnel team, trying to solve your problems in the running game, I just think that they've gotten that chance because they've had all this time together. And a lot of the teams below them on this list, even though you can make an argument that the players are better, they're starting over. Atlanta, Chicago, some of the teams that we're going to get to, this is year one, and it's year one with either an improving or slightly underwhelming play caller in stretches.

So I just think their ability to build on everything they have outside of the quarterback over the last three years, that's why I just kind of kept pushing them up in a way that was a tiny bit surprising to me. Yeah, and I do, I agree with you on Kevin O'Connell. I mean, they were mid-pack in QBR as a team without her cousins last year when he was not playing. So I wanted McCarthy there. Like, I just feel like that's a good fit. I want to see him develop with O'Connell and there's a lot of potential there. But, yeah, it's just, I mean, it's going to be tough. With him being so young, McCarthy, it just feels like we got to just get through this year, develop him, get on to 20, you know, 20, 25 and try to win football games.

But I think there's enough concerns here. They're going to struggle. Look, I think they're the worst team in the division. It's just going to be a rough year as you develop the quarterback. Who'd you have at seven? All right. Seven for me. Again, this is a team I could have went.

I could have put behind Minnesota, but I think their coaching situation is even better. So I'm going with the Rams on this one. Love, love McVeigh, obviously. Are you higher? What were you? Much higher. Much higher. Okay.

I mean, I love McFay, but I can only go so far. I can only go so far in this one. You know, love what they got in a Kyron Williams last year. I'm not a big Blake Horm fan. They didn't move the needle much for him. me. Nekuhin, Cup is good,

but Cups getting a little older. He's had a lot of injury issues over, over the years. Higbee is dealing with a major knee injury, which limits the tight end position. And then the O line, I have the O line, like,

right in the middle. I think it's like just a mid-pack offensive line here. You know, so I don't know exactly what they're going to get out of that. You know, the right side's great. Dotson and Avanstein's good.

I think Jonah Jackson, like, he got paid, but by the metrics, you know, I don't know that, really jumps off the table. I think you're talking about an average left guard there. So I think it's fine. I think it's a serviceable offensive line. So I'm curious to hear your case here

because I have a lot of faith in McVeigh and this team did a lot better than I expected them to last year, but I have enough concerns and knock them down a little bit here. I like the offensive line more than you do. I think that them leaning in stylistically the way they have to what they now are trotting out there on the interior, which acts in Avila and Dotson. I just think it allows them to even lean even further into the type of running game they wanted to have last year. This is a downhill team. It's going to be the biggest, probably strongest interior of the offensive line in the league. The left tackle, still a question. Like Larry Jackson, the fact that he's acquitted himself as well as he has after kind of getting dropped in there a couple

years ago, that's probably still a concern. But the other four starters, I think they're in very good shape. And I actually think the synchronicity and kind of the complimentary nature of it all works very well. I like the receivers. I think Nakua is, you know, obviously what he did last year. Cooper Cup at this stage of his career will see it's still a good enough group. This is a McVeigh bet. Like this is just a, this is a, we have seen him do it in multiple iterations over the last seven years. The fact that the Rams last year have an offense that I think a lot of teams around the NFL are going to steal from, and that offense looks not entirely different. But, drastically different to the offense that changed the NFL in 2017 and 2018.

I think that speaks to what sort of coach Sean McVeigh is, how proactive a coach Sean McVeigh is. I just think that an offense with him at the helm and good enough talent in the way that they have it, I just have a ton of faith in that group overall, even if the roster doesn't stack up to some of the other teams that I have a little bit behind them. Well, look, the team I was most wrong on last year was the Rams. So I'll defer to you on this one because a swing. I mean, you remember that defense.

What the defense looked like on paper going into last year? It was like, this might be the worst defense of all time. I mean, it was all untrafted guys, day three lottery tickets and Aaron Donald. And it worked out because it was great scouting. They drafted some good players, coached them up. I mean, they did a, it was still like a bottom end, you know, defense when all of a said and done. But it was still enough that it got them to the playoffs.

Obviously, they did a great job at the offense as well. So I doubted them before and it went poorly, so I'm not going to do it again. I was talking to a coach on the Raven staff earlier this offseason this spring. And hearing the way that defensive coaches, even on good defensive staffs, talk about the Rams and talk about what Sean McVeigh was doing last year, I just think that that goes a long way in my mind. And I do think that he is somebody that in quiet ways and in loud ways is pushing the league forward and is going to, they were using a lot of ideas

that I think other teams are going to steal. And when it comes to that, when it comes to kind of being on the cutting edge the way that they are, I just think that gives you such an advantage. And again, that's why as a tiebreaker, like I just kept pushing them up ahead of some of these teams that have better offensive lines,

arguably better pass catchers, all that stuff. Yeah, I mean, it scares me to bet against coaches like, you know, Shanahan or McVeigh, because the roster talent, because they can make them look better, make these guys look better than they are. So I'm with you. It's a tricky one.

So that was at six for you? That was seven. Rams were seven. Seven, okay. Yeah, so six for me. I'm going to go with the Packers here. Man, I do not like how high you have the Bears on this list. It's making me feel a little bit scared.

Oh, how low are you? Oh, no. A little bit lower. Not significantly, but you had the Packers at six. I had the Packers at four. So we're not that far apart on it. And again, before, this is a Matt will floor a thing more than anything else, because I will concede that the players on the line,

line in the receiving group are not as good as some of the other teams we're going to talk about, but he's another guy that just has earned the benefit of the doubt for me. Yeah, I'm with you. He has been fantastic. I think this is, I'm a little lower than you, but just all the respect of the world for LaFlorne and what he has done. I mean, the way they coached up that young group last year, unbelievable. I mean, one of the youngest offenses ever in terms of experience and age. And they're, I mean, they're in really good shape this season as well. You bring in Josh Jacobs and Marson Lloyd that should be a really good one, two puns should be an upgrade in last year. Wide receiver, you know, it's interesting.

I feel like you have good depth there, right? I mean, they're probably going to find ways to use Bowellon, who's there five, and he was making plays last year. And healthy Christian Watson, this could be a really good group. But they also don't have a certified superstar number one receiver. That could be Watson, but a lot of teams have that. A lot of teams have a number one. It's just the depth of the position is unbelievable right now.

So I think that's probably about an average, maybe a little below group. And we'll see what they get at the tight ends there. That could be a good group, high pedigree, craft, must scrape, two young guys. And then the offensive line, I think I was a little more concerned with them before the draft. I think it's just the fact that you go out and you spend a first round pick on that line, helps still avoid there. It helps me feel a little bit better about that position. So not, I mean, you know, Zach Tom's a good fine to right tackle.

Otherwise, probably, you know, average across the board. So I feel decent about the old line. above average group there. I think that's totally fair. With the offensive line, they're probably an average or slightly below average group, but this is a scheme and a staff

that has consistently elevated whoever they've trotted out there. So this is just one of those moments where I have faith for that. I have faith in that line looking better and playing better than it looks on paper. And the receiving group,

I'm with you. I mean, if there's no clear cut number one, I will fully admit this. Part of the reason I was willing to put them at four beyond just the blind faith in what Lafleur has done because he's done a phenomenal job

over the last five years. I love Dontavian Wix. I think Don'tavian Wix is a real player. So that's one where I'm like, I don't know, man. I expect a lot from him in year two. I think they have complimentary pieces around him. So I'm a little bit more bullish on the receiving core, but mostly this is a bet on the floor and like a smidge of Don Tantavian Wicks love.

Wicks is so fascinating. I mean, he's one of the most controversial players in fantasy this year. I mean, you know, I say controversial. Either way, it's like a late flyer. but like people are trying to decide like is it wicks or is it christian watson like is what the thing is when watson played last year wicks did not you know he was barely on the field so does that continue is it watson outside romeo dodd isn't going to disappear and then you know jane reed obviously not going anywhere either so where does that leave dantabian wick so uh yeah

if wicks ends up playing most downs i'm going to be wrong on that one i just don't know if he has a path to that that's my problem there would you have at five all right five for me uh i'm going to go with one of the teams I've talked about more than any other team this offseat the Falcons. This is, this is going to be a fun one. I had them at 10. And I think you could make an argument that they should be ahead. All right. So essentially seven through 10. I had Dallas. We'll talk about the bears in a second, the Seahawks and the Falcons. I easily could have moved the Falcons to seven. Like that group seven through 10, I think that was pretty interchangeable for me. We'll get to why, but I had them a tiny bit lower than you did.

Okay. Interesting. I mean, I like this group a lot. I mean, even quarterback aside, I mean, John Robinson, Drake London, Kyle Pitts, superstars. They were all top 10 superstar pedigree. I'll start with that. All top 10 picks in the draft.

Robinson looked apart last year. London, I think, has looked apart. He just the, you know, six targets of games, not going to cut it. You've got to get the guy the ball more. Even, you know, again, Pitz has been injured, but he had 1,000 yards as a rookie. I believe in all of these players. Darnell Mooney, as you know, where Chicago was their number one for a while.

He's a huge target shares, this feature player. I think he's a formidable number two. So I think that those positions are pretty good. Where I assume we're going to have some differentiated, differentiation here is offensive line, but I love their offensive line. I don't know where you fall,

but I mean, Matthews, Dalman, Lindstrom, McGarry are all plus players by pretty much every metric. Left guard could be a concern area, but that's a second year player with Bergeron. So I really like the Falcons offensive line. I think it's one of the best groups in the NFL, certainly top five on paper. I am not that high on them.

I like them. I have two concerns about the offensive line. I think in pure dropback situations, they're not necessarily built for that, the same way they are for a hyper-specific sort of run game. McGarry is much worse than past protection. Dalman is a little bit undersized. Bergeron even is a little bit undersized for a guard

just in terms of bulk. So that side of it, I think that they're just less flexible than some of the really, really good offensive lines are, but I do think it is a solid slash good group. The reason that I, again, that 7 through 10 group with Dallas, the Bears, the Seahawks, and the Falcons, the reason that I ultimately put the Falcons last among that group, and when it gets to play caller and people in charge of that,

Zach Robinson is the only one in that four that we have not seen do it either in the NFL or in college recently and have success. That was the tiebreaker. I think you easily could have them at the top of that group if you believe in Robinson and you have the faith that you do in the actual roster talent, but having him not be somebody we've seen in this role before, plus to me again, but a little bit of lack of flexibility in the offensive line, and I'm not as high on Mooney,

and I'm also not as high in Mooney's fit within this offense. Like, I don't know exactly how all the pieces are going to fit together, even though I understand he's a marketable number two receiver. So I have enough question marks combined with the fact that we've never seen Zach Robinson in this role, that that was the tiebreaker that pushed them down behind those other three teams. Yeah, but don't forget, Zach Robinson, PFF guy, close to my heart, right?

I honestly think that he's going to be really good. Truly, I think Zach Robinson is going to be really good. Yeah, I mean, it comes from the McVatry, which we just talked about. We love that for sure. And obviously, a little tongue-in-cheek there. But I believe it. Just the way he's gone about his career, too,

with that background of what he did at PFF, not just being there, but what he did there. And then get to go to the Rams. and then, you know, get this opportunity. And honestly, it's got to be better than years past. I mean, Arthur Smith has had his success in this league. Don't get me wrong. He did good things with Tennessee, even with Matt Ryan in year one.

And I know he's had bad quarterback situations, but good coordinators and play callers are going to maximize their skill guys. They did not do a good enough job at the last couple of years. I don't think Robinson makes that mistake. I think so, too. And honestly, we talked about this again in the NFC South show we did earlier this week. this style of offense and the skill position players they have, I love the overlap there.

I think Kyle Pitts on some of those inbreakers and he pits in London and some high-low situations, like that's what they do. That's what they should do. And this offense is going to accentuate that. So I'm with you. Again, I could have had them as high as seven.

It was just the fact that we've had some actual proof in the pudding with some of these other play callers compared to Zach Robinson. Totally fair. Totally fair. Get that. All right. You ready? I can't.

This is. shocking to me. Let's talk about your bears. Yeah, I'm at four for the bears. I mean, look, I think the guys around Caleb Williams are really good. I mean, this is probably the best situation. A first overall pick quarterback has ever walked into. It's definitely fueled by wide receiver. I mean, you have one of the best trios in the NFL with Moore Allen and Adunzee who, I mean, look, top 10 receivers, as we talked about with Harrison earlier, are generally featured players. And they don't even need him to be a featured player. Gerald Everett was a starter last year at Titan.

He's a solid player. You bring him in with Cole Komet. I like all I like all three of their running backs. You bring in D'Andre Swift. I love Herber as a rusher. Roshan Johnson was one of my favorite prospects coming in. And then, you know, the offensive line, I have them ranked as an above average group, maybe even just outside the top third or right around that range.

You know, Jones and Jenkins on the left side. That worked out. Jenkins at left guard. I feel like that's been good, darn all right. first round pick last year. I thought he was solid and could make a leap forward this season. Some question marks inside,

but otherwise, I think you have a serviceable O-line and I think you have a really good group around Caleb Williams. So I like this group a lot. Yeah, I couldn't get them ahead of the teams that, again, have real track records of success with just offensive ecosystem.

Vikings, Rams, Packers, like, these guys who have consistently gotten the most out of their groups, the Rams and the Packers specifically, I think that those were clear-cut ahead of this team for me. Waldron, I think that a solid job in Seattle, I don't think he did an overwhelmingly good job.

I think that there's some predictability to the way that they play. There's some volatility to the way that they play. But he's been a solid offensive coordinator. The line is fine. I expect Darnall Wright to be a lot better in year two. Just those are the types of leaps we typically see from offensive line and especially highly drafted guys who showed some of the flashes he did last year.

Braxton Jones is serviceable at left tackle. there were questions on the interior. Tevin Jenkins has been consistently hurt over the last few years, even though we've seen him play at a high level. Coleman Shelton is fine, and Nate Davis did not play that well last year. So I think in the best case scenario, they have like a top 12 offensive line,

it could be much worse than that. It's hard to argue with the receiving talent. Like, it may be Keenan Allen takes a step back because he's going to be 32 years old and the track record of receivers that old is just not very good. But even if that happens, have a doonese waiting in the wings. So, but the teams I have ahead of them, like, I couldn't put them ahead of the teams

talked about. I couldn't put ahead of the Packers, couldn't put up ahead of the Vikings, couldn't put them ahead of the Rams. And I couldn't put them ahead of the Eagles. Like, the Eagles have too many good players for me to give the bears the edge over a team like that. If you told me they should be ahead of the Cowboys at seven, fine. I'm totally willing to concede that.

But everyone's six and above that I have. It was just hard for them to crack that list for me. Yeah. I mean, I do with the Eagles added. I feel like the top three were pretty easy to put them up there. But after that, I think they always seem for very close. But I'm buying into this skill guys. I just really like this skill guy group.

But it sounds like I'm a little higher on the offensive line. But, I mean, look, regardless, I think, like, Williams walking into this situation, you should be able to put up some numbers. I mean, he should easily throw. Even if it's seven. Think about that. Think about having, like, a top half of the league supporting cast when you were the number one overall pick.

And not even in the top half of the league, just supporting cast. From a receiving core standpoint, solely, they're in the top five. That is a disconcerting situation for me. Like, I feel uncomfortable looking at a Chicago Bears depth chart that looks like this. Yeah, it is unreal. I mean, I have Williams projected to throw 23 touchdowns in 15 games, and that might sound like, that's not that high. But for a rookie quarterback, that is a high number.

I mean, that is, that's optimistic. I think his line is like 23, 24 in that range as well. But that's, I never would like to consider the over for something like that. But for Williams in this situation, he should get there. If he doesn't get there, it's probably a problem. If he throws like 27 touchdowns, it's one of the best quarterback seasons. Exactly. For anyone, that would be the best.

Oh, well, you're saying best ever in general. Ever. Not even rookies, just ever, period. That would be one of the best rookie seasons ever across the NFL. So, yeah. All right. So you had the Eagles at three? I actually have Detroit at three.

So I think, I think that's a close call. the way Ben Johnson's coached up this offense, not to mention Dan Campbell last couple of years. I think these could be either way. I have the Eagles or the Lions at 3 as well. Oh, you do. Okay. All right. So we're on the same page there.

Yeah. I mean, look, at this point, like, there's not much negative to say. I mean, elite running back room here. Receiver depth is where you could get picky, I think, with the Lions for sure. You know, James and Williams has improved himself, but Amon Ross St. Brown's an absolute superstar. What a find here and there. and you have Sam LaPorter and Brock Wright, by the way, you know, teams are trying to steal him away during the offseason.

So he's in terms of, if we're going to dig deep here, he's a solid deputy piece. But of course, with the Lions, the story is the O line. Best offensive line in the NFL might be better this year. I mean, Decker, Glasgow, Ragnos, Sewell are all back. And then you're bringing Kevin Zitler, is one of the best right guards of the last decade in the NFL. He's older now, but he's still coming off a good season, just totally stacked.

Best O line. I don't think that's like, is there a difference? debate there? I don't know who would be better. With Philly taking a step back with no Jason Kelsey, I think that it's pretty easy to give it to the Lions right now, and especially if you look at the way that that talent manifests,

like the diversity of the run game, the different things that they can do because of the players that they have. Not only do they have, I think, the best offensive line talent in the league, I think their offensive line talent is wielded better than any other group in the NFL right now in a post-Jason Kelsey sort of

world. Yeah, absolutely. I'm with you. They're just totally sack. I think the only reason why they're not even, you know, not, I guess you can consider them first or second year. But like Jared Gough is just such a mystery. I mean, we just talked about how great Sean McVey is. And he traded him and picks to get an upgrade. And then Gough has gone, like his first year in Detroit wasn't very good, but he's been a lot better since then. He played really good football. So figuring out who the real Jared Gough is can be tricky sometimes. Absolutely is. And the only reason that I didn't have the lions ahead of the Rams, and I think you can make an argument they deserve to be ahead

of the Rams, is I've seen McVeigh do this for so long, right? Like, we've seen different iterations of this. I just think that the flexibility the Rams have shown in recreating their offense a couple different times. There's just less of a track record for Ben Johnson. I think Ben Johnson is phenomenal. Like, if you put the Lions at two on this list, I would have no issue with that whatsoever. I have a ton of faith and just enthusiasm about what they have built on that side of the 100%. Okay. So you have,

you've lines three. You said you have Rams too? I had the Rams at two. Wow. Interesting. Yeah. That's, that's bold.

I mean, that's where I have Philly. So you have Philly four, I assume? I have the Eagles at six. Wow. Okay. All right.

Well, that's who's next on my list. So we can go there now if you're, if you're ready for that. Yeah. Look, I still believe in Jalen Hertz. I mean,

I have him graded lower than last year. I mean, obviously he fell off. I like to see more consistent year, you know, week one through, through the Super Bowl play, get done as a passer and a rusher,

but still believe in him. Obviously, you get Sequin Barclay, one of the best playmakers at running back. I think the Eagles' motivation there was like, copycat league. We saw what our NFC rival, 49ers did with McCaffrey.

We're going to try to do that. The salary cap went up. Let's take our chance now and spend on running back. I don't think they would spend on like anyone else. It was just like this small select group of difference makers like a CMC or a Barclay, and they did that. A.J. Brown, Devante Smith,

one of the best one, two punches in the NFL, plus Dallas Goddard. So you have the skill guys still in place. You're in a good situation there. Where it comes down to it, I assume this is where you're going to get a little picky with them, and fairly, you know, because there's two unproven guys now is, of course,

the offensive line, still probably the best tackles in the NFL and Landon Dickerson's a standout. So 60% of this group is still among the best players in the NFL along the offensive line. So it gives me a lot of optimism. It just comes down to what you get out of Juergens and Steen, and they just haven't played a lot.

lot. So I don't have them as like major weak spots, but below average spots. But again, it offsets when you have three superstars. And you made this point earlier. Sometimes guys like that are protected by the stars around them. That could be, you know, that helps the cause there as well. So I still feel pretty good about the O line. I think it's one of the better units overall in the NFL, but obviously not the sure thing it's been in the past. I think that's totally fair. The offensive line is part of the reason I would push them a little bit down just because it's not the same group as it was last year, two years ago. You get worse. at two spots by moving Juergens to center

and bringing Steen into play guard. Kelsey's presence on the mental side of things where he controls so much of who they are as an offense and removing that, I think has a pretty big influence. But beyond the offensive line, I think that would have been fine. I think if you had this skill position group,

which is phenomenal. I mean, AJ Brown and Devote Smith is ridiculous. I love, the Barkley thing is so interesting to me. I think beyond looking at what McAfrey did, I think this is a Howie Roseman as Warren Buffett sort of moment where he's like, the market has changed too much. We are way too low on these guys.

It's gone way too far the other way. I'm going to buy a low here and we're going to find something that other people can't. So I think there's a lot of reasons to be excited about that group. The reason I kept them out of the top five, I alluded to this a little bit earlier, Vikings, Packers, Lions, Rams, and the team at number one, these are solidified offensive systems. These coaches have been there for years. They know exactly who they are.

and they do exactly who they want to be. The Eagles were a mess last year. And even with Kell and Moore coming in and hopefully stabilizing some of that stuff, there's just not the proof and the track record for the guys in charge of that offense the way there is with the top five teams on my list. That was the only thing that kept them out.

From a talent perspective, you can make an argument easily that they should be number two like you are, but I just have more faith in the stability and the ecosystem with those other five teams than I do with Philly right now. Yeah, totally fair. I mean, I think that's been the big difference between our rankings is your faith in systems, my faith in roster talent. And I'm curious to see how that plays out, too. That's probably going to be a mix of bulk, but it's fascinating to hear that angle because my, I'm so centric on like, obviously coaching considerations go into the projections, but so heavy on roster talent, right? So it's just really fascinating. Well, we had the same answer for number one, even coming out of from slightly different perspectives. So I think this will.

was the easiest one that I had to do in this entire exercise overall. Yeah, but I think, yeah, Niners' best team in the NFL. I think that if you forget about coaching here, maybe you can make a case for Detroit and Philly, and I'll get to why that is in a second. But, I mean, best skill group in terms of the offensive skill positions in the NFL easily. But, you know, McCaffrey, I, U. Debo, and Kittle all back from last year, Juan Jennings, an underrated third receiver, and now you have your first round pick. I mean, Rich Get Richer with Ricky Pierce all there.

Just not even fair. I mean, at that point, oh, and oh, some guy named Logan Thomas is their number two tight end now. They bring him in. I know he's older, but they're like four deep with like depth. They're running back. They have used check. Oh, my God.

Like, they just have so much talent in that department. That kind of pushes them in the top. I do, like, I think I would say this was one of my most controversial takes. of last year was that the offensive line was a problem behind Trent Williams. Like if Trent William, absolute superstar, one of the best players in the NFL. But I was like, all right, these other guys, you know, McKivitts, he had what, played 71 NFL snaps before last year. They put him in at the right tackle, nothing really super inspiring on the interior of the line.

And, you know, it's not like they graded out great. Like the rest of that group was fine or worse than fine. Like the metrics weren't great. And I'm still, I can still pick it up. part a little bit behind Williams, but I don't know if it matters. I mean, when you have Kyle Shannon, I just don't think it really matters or moves the needle. They just have the scheme in place and the skill guys. And now the right quarterback for Shannon, that doesn't matter. They just are going to dominate, put up points and just crush it again. You said everything I would have.

I think that the offensive line still has concerns. I think, again, they lack flexibility just because of their right tackle was in a mall or they have issues along the interior. They still have issues along the interior and they didn't do much to address it this off season, but they're banking on the scheme being able to overcome that stuff and for the skill position talent

to be able to overcome that stuff. And clearly, I think it does if I'm going to rank them number one in this exercise. Like the combination of Kyle Shanahan, Brandon I, Euk, George Kittle, Christian McCaffrey, Debo Samuel, that is enough to be to feel okay even about some of the issues they have

along the offensive line. So again, this is, I didn't even write any notes. I just put Niners one. That was like, it was like, it was the easiest thing I did among these 32 teams.

Yeah, I mean, I am, by the way, when I said like, it was a controversial take last year. It was like, I was worried it might be a problem for them.

That was the wrong attitude to have last year because it was Shannon in there, it's not a problem. It doesn't seem to matter. It's just he gets the most out of these guys. And of course, when you have the skill guys like that, and they're pretty healthy,

obviously, they were very healthy last year with those skill guys. you know, it's going to work out with Shannon leading the show. So no doubt about it. You're right. Easy number one. I honestly think that you're right, though,

because the offensive line for that team, this happened twice in the two shows we've done about this this week. The Dolphins' offensive line has a ton of concerns. The Niners' offensive line, to me, personnel-wise, has a lot of concerns. For most of the season, they're fine. They can overcome that with the skill position talent

and the guys they have pushing the buttons. But I do think that that stuff shows up as we get into the postseason, as as teams make you play left-handed. So even if they can still be the best offense in the league, even if those two can be the best offenses in their respective conferences, I think when you get down to it, that is still the biggest thing to worry about when you're looking at the ceiling that those two teams have.

Yeah, that's a really good point because I do still feel like the 49, like the Packers just handed them that game. I mean, they could have lost several times in the playoffs before they eventually did it in the Super Bowl. like the Packers had that game one. I mean, that was over. The Niners could have got knocked out several times. So I hear you.

That's a completely fair point. All right. So why don't you run through your list very quickly one more time just so we have people have it as they get to the end of this year? All right. All right. So this is going to be fun to compare at the end of the year. Right. We'll go backwards from 16.

Cardinals, giants, saints, commanders, buccaneers, panthers, cowboys, Seahawks, Vikings, Rams, Packers, Falcons, your bears, lions, lions, eagles. 49ers. God, the bears at four is just, it's making me feel really uncomfortable. All right. At 16, I had Washington. 15, I had the Giants. 14, I had the Saints, 13 Panthers, 12 bucks, 11 Cardinals, 10 Falcons, 9 Seahawks,

eight bears, seven cowboys, six Eagles, five Vikings, four Packers, three lions, two Rams, one-niners. That's, you know, it's fun. I have all four of the NFC North in the top eight. I'm here for that that division is going to be fun that that's going to be a really fun division yeah I have them at eight as well because I have the bears at eight but I have all of the other teams ahead of them I just think that there's a lot of good offensive coaching happening in the NFC even independent of the guys on those rosters so hopefully we'll have a lot of very

good watchable football in the NFC north as that's what I spend most of my time doing so yeah look I don't think the Vikings with darnall and McCarthy are going to win that division but I think any of the other three teams can I think that's wide open especially if Caleb's a real deal So that's going to be one of the divisions to watch is here. It's going to be super fun. Really, really appreciate you spending the time with us today, Mike. I know you got a lot going on. What are you working on?

Where should people be looking for the stuff that you got going? Yeah, so just working on NFL and fantasy content. Just filed a couple of things. So it'll be up at ESPN.com over the next couple of months and, you know, all that fun stuff. So just pumping out content, you know how it is. I certainly do. All right, guys, that is all we have for today. I mentioned this on Thursday show, just a quick heads up.

We're only going to be having one show next week. It's going to be running on Tuesday. So do not be looking for shows on the fourth and the fifth. We're going to take that time off. Hopefully you guys can a little bit as well. We really appreciate your understanding that. We're going to enjoy the holiday and kind of the downtime this summer. But we will be back with three shows the following week on our normally scheduled programming.

So be on the lookout for that. For now, that is all we've got. Sincerely appreciate you guys listening. Enjoy your weekend. We'll talk to you soon. This was the Athletic Football Show.