The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Russell Wilson traded to the Broncos, Aaron Rodgers staying with the Packers & more breaking news reaction

Episode Date: March 8, 2022

Robert Mays, Mike Sando and Lindsay Jones assemble to discuss the impact of the Russell Wilson trade to the Broncos for both the Seahawks and the Broncos. Does this elevate the Broncos to a contender? Where does this leave the Seahawks? Plus, Aaron Rodgers confirms he is staying in Green Bay - is this the outcome we expected? All that and more breaking news reaction on a full day of NFL headlines on The Athletic Football Show. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. Today's Tuesday, March 8th. I'm Robert Mays. The fun never stops, boy. After a pretty eventful Monday in the NFL calendar, we had some people franchise, tagged, everything else, what is supposed to be the quiet time of the NFL season

between the combine and the start of free agency has been anything but. It has been a news-filled day. in the NFL on this Tuesday. And to help us sort through it, I am thrilled to welcome two of my wonderful colleagues from the athletic, Lindsey Jones and Mike Sandokees.

Thank you very much for Scramble on the Jets and joining me today. Great to be here. Yeah, it's great to be here. I just pointed out right before we started recording. We're checking in from Denver and Seattle. So what could we possibly have to talk about from our two locales?

That may not be an accident that both of you are here to talk about this. So first of all, let's just lay out the parameters of the deal. I was on the phone with Bill Barnwell, planning a different podcast that we were going to record for tomorrow. And he's like, I don't think we can do that anymore. I was like, what do you mean? He goes, Russell Wilson just got traded to the Broncos. So I will always remember that Bill Barnwell in real time is the one that told me that instead of finding out on Twitter.

That was a lot less curse words than my reaction. So kudos to Bill for that. So here are the terms, as they've been reported. I think he and Rap report had them first, and they've been trickling out since then. Two first round picks. Two second round picks. Shelby Harris, defensive lineman Shelby Harris, Noah Phant, Drew Locke,

which is just amazing. Drew Locke being dropped into Seahawks' Twitter is my favorite part of this entire transaction. So I'm really, really looking forward to that. So those are the terms. The Seahawks give a fourth round pick

back to the Broncos. A very important part in this entire calculus here. Let's not forget that. Lindsay Jones, explain to me very quickly why the Broncos would do this. they have to have a quarterback.

Literally nothing else matters for the Broncos until they have a legitimate quarterback. Not a Teddy Bridgewater, not a Drew Locke, not a, I mean, any of the guys who have cycled through here since 2015, literally nothing else matters if you're the Broncos until you have a quarterback that can compete in the AFC West. And the news earlier today, obviously when Aaron Rogers has done. decided to stay in Green Bay. Part of that was that the Broncos were in strong consideration for that. And if Rogers wanted to move and wanted to go to Denver, the Broncos were going to be a major player in that.

So that was a sign that last week when we were an indie and in all the weeks before that, George Payton has been working hard at this because as much as, you know, you could talk about, oh, they're looking at Kenny Pickett. Maybe he doesn't care about hand size so much. No, he wanted to make a major move to get a quarterback and to do it right now. And look, I know Denver has been obsessed. with Aaron Rogers. I say like the city, the fan base, this entire region has been obsessed with Aaron Rogers. That flipped immediately when this happened to Aaron, with Russell Wilson. So

this is the big swing that George Payton had to make. And this immediately is going to make them the type of contender in the West that they haven't been since Peyton Manning retired. It's so funny. And I've lived this every day. And I continue to live this every day. Drew Locke going back to Seattle. And now it's going to be Drew Locke and whoever they might try to go get. You live with Drew Rock for a year. That place sucks. And that place is where the Broncos have lived for years, right? You cycle through the semi-highly drafted rookie, and then you have a Teddy Bridgewater, and you go sign Joe Flacco for a few games. That cycle is maddening. It's a really, really tough place to be. And they just broke the cycle. They smashed it to pieces. And they had to pay a huge

price to do it. And they sent a monstrous package to the Seahawks, Mike, I'm curious on your side of this in Seattle, what is their motivation for doing this? Because now my first glance is, oh, you have Noah Fant, Shelby Harris, Drew Locke, and some picks. You're the Broncos now. Congratulations. Yeah, absolutely. Right now. So what it means is they have to get a different quarterback. But I think their calculus is this.

They weren't going to pay Russell Wilson $50 million on his next contract, which is what he would have wanted. Okay. I don't know if you've noticed over the last year or two. there's been a little bit of dust and smoke kicked up by Russell Wilson and his camp. How many times will we see in the word camp, right? There's always been something. He ain't happy there. So one year from now, he has two years left on his deal.

So one year from now, he's in a contract year, and that's all anyone's talking about, right? So what they are saying is we've seen the best of Russell Wilson, and we're not going to go to $50 million a year or whatever it would take to make him happy. We don't think we can make him happy. And so our choices now become, let it play out for two more years and then franchise tags and all kinds of stuff, or one year from now decide we're not going to pay them that, so make the trade a year from now. Or, you know what, we know this isn't going to be an extended marriage anyway. Let's do it now when we can get something in return and when there's not a big quarterback in the draft that people can go get when Aaron Rogers isn't going to be available. we clearly have, Deshawn Watson, by the way, isn't available until he can have his legal situations done. So they have, I think they are making the decision that this is when we can get the best value for a quarterback who isn't going to be our quarterback in three years. Probably isn't going to be our quarterback in two years because this relationship's broken and it's all coming to a head.

So they're going to strike now because they're brassy and bold and we'll do it. They've had success. Most teams couldn't do this. You just couldn't do it. But John Schneider, Pete Carroll are risk takers. They believe in what they're doing. And they think this relationship was broken. And so they're going to get out of it now.

If you first guess what the quarterback avenue in the short term could look like beyond Drew Locke, what would you say they try to chase? Deshaun Watson could be there later. Right? If his situation is resolved. And now you have the ammo to go do. that. And you have the ammo to go do it. Absolutely, you do. Who else has more ammo than you? So that's the type of situation. I think they have to be monitoring. I don't know who else,

you know, who else, there's no one else like that, right? You're going to get, certainly not in this draft either. So I would be looking at that on the back burner. Do they think they could, do they think that's going to come to a head and they can just wait until it does? And they've got these picks. Will something happen before the draft? The league is not given teams guidance on that. The league may not know. That was one of the takeaways from the combine. was that teams were looking for some sort of clarity on what could happen with him, and there wasn't any. So Denver, like Lindsay said, they've had a different starting quarterback every year for the last five years in week one.

Different guy. So there, I did the quarterback angst index last week, and I think I had indie number one. But I sent the list before it published to somebody who does have some ties to Denver, and they're like, yeah, you might want to move Denver up. You don't understand how bad it is. What that feeling is like there. It feels interesting just because of the age and the timeline potential in Seattle, just because you have a 70-year-old hood coach who is just recommitted to the franchise this offseason.

I think that everything seemed to be on the table for where things would head. He's back there now. So a rebuild under Pete Carroll seems like kind of a tall order, but what you're saying is that the assets that they've accumulated here could potentially be, they could accelerate whatever that process is looking like. The other thing is, I mean, the only reason people are mentioning Pete Carroll's age is because Russell Wilson's camp has been putting out there that the games passed him by and he's 70 years old. Otherwise, people would be like, Pete Carroll's 70 years old? You're kidding me.

This guy's got so much energy. You ever spend time with Pete Carroll and come away thinking this is an old guy? I mean, what else is Pete Carroll going to do? Yeah, his shoes, exactly. Yeah, his shoes is it. But so, you know, the idea that he's old and not going anywhere, well, before last season, he signed like a five-year extension. I mean, he signed through like 20-25 or something.

So I don't think he's going anywhere. And certainly with a Super Bowl title and the success that he's had, it's not like it's, oh, my gosh, they have to pull something together. I mean, they've had one bad year. So for them, that's going to be interesting. But I think clearly the big part of this is they don't feel Russell Wilson is worth to them what he is to Denver because the relationship is broken. I think that has to be a key component of this. It's funny you think about the Seahawks are fascinating team. Now you move on from

Russell Wilson. So your offense changes dramatically in terms of what it's going to look like. Because over the last few years, even as they shifted between offensive coordinators, they ran the Russell Wilson offense, which I think is going to be a consideration for Denver as we move forward. But also, look at all the coaching changes Seattle made on the defensive side of the ball. You bring in Carl Scott, you bring in Sean Desai. I mean, there's going to be a philosophical shift over there in a way that there hasn't been, essentially since Pete Carroll got there, even if there had been some evolution. So there is a ton of different moving parts over there that I think are worth watching. They're at a pivot point as a franchise as it relates to more than their quarterback.

Lindsay, I want to talk about just where the Broncos are now. So as we sit here and think about it, all right, two years ago in this spring, the Bucks signed Tom Brady. It is the last piece in a Super Bowl equation. They go all the way. They win a championship celebration ensues. Last year, the Rams look at their landscape and say, we have Jared Goff, we have some pretty damn good players elsewhere. He's not good enough.

We need to make a big splash. They go trade for Matthew Stafford, multiple first round picks. They win the Super Bowl. The Broncos seem to be the next in line with that type of thinking in mind. what are realistic expectations as they apply to Denver right now? Yeah, I mean, obviously that's the goal, right? As you look and you say, it is clearly possible that you can bring in a quarterback and win immediately. I will say doing that in the AFC West is a monumental challenge given what they're going to be facing, you know, week after week after week.

They also play the NFC West this year. So we all can just circle that Russell Wilson at Seattle game. But we're also going to get to, you know, they're also going to have to. play the Rams and the Cardinals and the Niners. So there's going to be a lot of, I've already asked that every AFC West game, just automatically go to prime time because that's what we all want to watch. But yeah. The poor Raiders, man.

The poor Raiders. They go get a new coach. There's some excitement there. And now it's Justin Herbert, Patrick Mahomes and Russell Wilson six times a year. Yeah. Sorry, Josh McDaniels. Good luck. It'll be fine.

But, you know, I think the Broncos are, you know, they're in a really interesting spot where, you know, I don't know if they're quite at the level of like the roster talent that, clearly I don't think they were at a roster talent where the Rams were at this year when they made, when they made the Matthew Stafford trade. But I think fairly similar to where the bucks were at in terms of like a combination of veterans, some nice young players. Their skill position group is, you know, right up there with just about anybody else in the NFL.

Their receiver group actually made it through this trade intact. Jerry Judy, Cortland Sutton, and Tim Patrick as their top three receivers. receivers. You know, Devante Williams is a really nice young running back. They've got a pretty decent offensive line, probably probably probably better than anything that Russell Wilson has played behind over the last few years. You know, so I, you know, I think this is a team that feels like they are ready to, you know, I don't know if anybody's going to run around saying Super Bowl right away, but I think this is the move that they needed to make to finally end that losing streak against the Chiefs, right?

Where they have just not had a quarterback who is capable of going toe to toe with any of the Chiefs quarterbacks dating back to 2016. I mean, they lost a lot of games to Alex Smith. They've lost every single game to Patrick Mahomes since he has played. The last time the Broncos beat the Chiefs, I was not even pregnant with my daughter, who is now almost in first grade. It has been a very long time since that has happened. And they know that they're going to have to compete in that division.

It was one of the last things that Vic Pangio said before he left. So, you know, you look around and look, they have a lot of really, really nice pieces. I ran through some of those guys on offense. Then you look at the defensive front. Bradley Chubb, who is going to need to get paid pretty soon. I believe he's coming up on his fifth year option year. Patrick Sartan, who got a lot of crap last year, right? George Payton did for not drafting a quarterback there, specifically not drafting Justin Fields.

But if Russell Wilson is going to take the Broncos back to the playoffs, all of that is going to be forgotten, right? that he did have this quarterback plan, but it did take a lot to get there. I'm not sure if it's like a crazy, exorbitant amount, though, when we've been hearing for the last year, legal issues with standing about Deshaun Watson, things like three first round picks,

those sorts of things, two first, two seconds, and, you know, in a handful of players, but I don't think those are any players that, you know, it would have been harder if it was like Jerry Judy,

right? Yeah, I mean, it's what I said before. At a certain point, You're the Broncos if you're at the Seahawks now. It's nice to have those pieces, but without the quarterback, it's a little harder to talk yourself into it. And Mike, what I find kind of fascinating, and talk about two seconds, by the way, they have an extra second from the Von Miller trade.

So they have resources. They had some stocked up as a way to make this happen. And Mike, it's kind of funny. They could give Von Miller back. Sorry to interrupt you. All that Von Miller was doing on Monday was tweeting about how he wants to come back to Denver and wondering if he could get his old locker back. So as I sit here back. As I look at their roster and I look at the money, Mike, what's interesting about this is that typically with an NFL

trade, when you trade for any sort of player, you're just absorbing their salary because it's for picks. But you look at what they gave up as part of this deal. The Shelby Harris trade, they save about $5 million by trading Shelby Harris. They save a couple million bucks dealing Noah fan, dealing Drew Locke's contract. They save upwards of like $12 million with these deals. Russell Wilson only has a $19 million base salary this year. So this is a team right now that still has like $30 million in cap space to potentially play with even after absorbing Russell Wilson's contract. Do you think Russell Wilson's going to be happy with the contract or you think he might want a new one?

What's your guess? I think he probably wants a new one, but not this year. Oh, do you think he wants to be at the top of the market or just somewhere in the top 10 is fine because he's all about the team? I assume it's probably somewhere at the top of the market. Like 50? sure I mean the Russell the Aaron Rogers contract that we just saw is probably going to be some sort of marker there huh well yes did you see that's a whole other thing rogers actually tweeting because these guys care so much about how they're perceived Rogers like it's inaccurate no it's not for that much you know I just find it funny Russell Wilson's going to want to be paid at the top he wants to be perceived as the reason the team wins he wants to be perceived as Tom Brady and Peyton Manning he wants to be perceived as Tom Brady and Peyton Manning he wants to be perceived as Tom Brady and Peyton Manning he wants to wants to be perceived as throwing the ball 40 times a game. This is on my shoulders. I'm back there in the shotgun. The offense is running through me. And I think Seattle doesn't think that

that's what he is. And so it will be very interesting to me because there's a gap between what Seattle thinks he is and what he thinks he is. But remember, that's always going to be represented by what the contract is. And so I think a contract is a big part of this for Denver. And I think he will be looking for a really big one. That's possible. But even if he gets the extension now, the base and the number for 2022 is likely going to stay the same, right? So the Broncos are going to have some financial flexibility this year even after taking him on. If they want to go get a Von Miller, or if they want to sign a right tackle and free agency, a couple of those obvious holes that they have, at least in the short term, they can shore a couple of those up. Yep. So Mike, I do have another question for you based

on what you just said, because you are our quarterback expert on our staff, our quarterback tier expert, and having, you know, live just right down the road from the Seahawks and covered them so much. Okay, you said, so there's this big gulf between who Russell Wilson thinks he is and who the Seahawks think he is. So who is he? Where does he fall, like, in reality on that spectrum, either in your opinion and, you know, what you're hearing from guys around the league? I think he's not the guy who can have the, just be a drop back pass game the whole time like Peyton Manning and Aaron Rogers. I think he needs the context of what they had when they were in Seattle at their best, which they did have a good running game. And he's

amazing in the two-minute situations can take it over then. But that context helps him because of just his limitations of being able to see the field based on his size are a factor. So when you can move him around, when you have the defense. with their eyes on the run thread or you get favorable matchups because they're in a single safety look. I think he's amazing. I do think for the last year and a half, he's had a little bit of diminished production. As their running game has flagged, as the team around him, probably, you know, certainly the offensive line's been a little bit of an issue. I don't think he's been able to just rise up and make it be okay.

Whereas I do think that the absolute, the Peyton Manning, and the Rogers is, I think they can do that. So I think there's a little bit of a gap. I think he's at the bottom of tier one as opposed to at the top of it. And now the question is, based on what we've seen the last year and a half, is he really sort of kind of in an upper tier two guy who needs a lot of stuff right around him? And then you can still go to the Super Bowl and all of that. Because remember, he's been in Seattle, however many years now,

when's the last time they were in a championship game, right? It's not like they're there every year. It's been years. since he's been there. So I think there are some questions. One of them, though, is not, does Denver have a good quarterback? They do. Denver solved their quarterback situation with this.

But do you think they're going to go to the Super Bowl now? I don't even know. They have the third best quarterback in their division. I believe that. Yeah, I did that earlier. I did like a way too early AFC West quarterback power rankings, and I put Wilson third. And part of that is just, I'm kind of blinded by Justin. and Herbert a little bit.

And I just kind of am waiting for him to take that, that leap. Let's be clear about this. You would rather have Justin Herbert in 2022 than Russell Wilson, no matter what you think of Russell Wilson. Like, I just want to get that out there right now. Yes, anybody would, right? Yes. Any reasonable person would.

Like, he's in quarterback tiers. Mahomes and Herbert are going to be in the top three of the league probably, right? I mean, Mahal, I mean, who can be with them? You say that, Mike. But you, when you did that piece a couple weeks ago after Burrow went on that little run and you pulled all of those people about where they, how they would rank Burrow, Allen, and Herbert, I was astonished at how much they liked Herbert. At the amount of people who had Herbert third. The amount of. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So, but maybe some recency bias was happening. But put it this way. Wilson will come in. Wilson probably will come in behind Mahomes, Rogers, Herbert, Josh Allen. Is there one other one? Burrow?

Yeah, Burrow. I mean, he's probably going to come in outside the top five. Isn't that true? Sure. But wouldn't Matthew Stafford do the same? Yeah. Oh, yeah. No doubt about it.

So now it's about the infrastructure. And I think that becomes a really interesting question. How good is the infrastructure really? That we don't really understand. Because if you look at the situations, if we're comparing it to what happened in Tampa, what happened in L.A. proof of concept with those guys as offensive minds play callers with Ariens and McVey, right? We know that Sean McVeigh is capable of orchestrating one of the best offenses in football with Jared Gough pulling the trigger.

You'd now drop Matthew Stafford and things change and they evolve, but we knew that Sean McVeigh was one of the best five offensive play callers in the league. There is a lot more uncertainty, Lindsay, with the way that we know Nathaniel Hackett. He's not a play caller. This is his first chance doing this. And Mike, you mentioned that, you know, Wilson, not being a series of the field and what they thought he was and how much help he needs. I am going to be so interested in what the structure of the offense in Denver ends up being and how Russell Wilson fits into that.

Because Nathaniel Hackett, in the short term, comes from that Green Bay offense that Matt LaFleur runs. But his background is varied. Justin out in their offensive coordinator was in Green Bay, all right? Clint Kubiak, their passing game coordinator and quarterbacks coach, was with the Vikings. His last name is Kubiak. I think we know what sort of offense they're going to run there in Minnesota. Jake Morrill and their tight ends coach was with the Jets last year as their offensive line assistant. So you have the DNA of that Shanahan system.

What is that going to look like with Russ? You think you'd have an answer, but it was supposed to look like that last year when they brought in Shane Waldron. And it didn't. So how the process that the Packers coaching staff went through with Rogers and the compromise they eventually have come to and what that offense looks like, is in my opinion why they've been one of the best offenses in football. What does that compromise ultimately end up looking like with Russell Wilson could determine how good the Broncos are on offense and how far they can take this thing? Well, and I guess one of my big questions right now, too, is just knowing that it is almost like

a blank slate offense right now. I mean, Hackett isn't married to exactly one type of scheme. He's not just like transporting the Green Bay playbook. Like he would have if they would have traded for Aaron Rogers. if we're kind of getting to start this from scratch, knowing the player, knowing who the personnel is, what do you think is like the ideal offensive scheme for Russell Wilson at this point in his career, what he does best, what are his limitations? What are, what are a couple of those things that you would really like to see the Broncos doing

as they are now, you know, here on March 8th starting to design this playbook for him? The Broncos Offensive Line Coach, by the way, came from San Francisco. So if we needed one more example of that. Mike, what do you think the answer to that is? What do you think the right way to put Russell Wilson in a position to succeed looks like in 2022? I do like the, I think the Shanhan offense would be great for him, that type of an offense. I think he can certainly move well enough. I think, like I said before, the run game component, he plays well off of that.

When you've got the run game component, I think he's really deadly at his best for that. And so the thing I would like to see from him, some of this is just him, there's been a feeling that he has been less willing to run, less willing to take off, less willing to be the all-around player that he was before, that he covets the sort of Brady, like I said, the Peyton Manning standing in the shotgun with your hands and surveying and running the whole scheme. I don't think that's what it is. So I think really kind of some of the stuff that he was doing before, you know, even when Darrell Beville was there, they were a really good, efficient explosive offense.

I actually think the best offense for him is the exact vision that Pete Carroll has for him that makes him so mad. They just have to pitch it completely differently. Exactly. It just can't be Pete Carroll saying it. Pitch it differently. We have to make Russell think it's his idea. And I'm telling you, that's it's so funny that that is, but that way that you sell it is so

important. And that was a process in Green Bay, right? Like, that was a dialogue from the time that LaFleur got there. I remember talking to both of those guys about it that summer when they were figuring out or what's it going to look like. And I think there was some creative tension. during that 2019 season. And I think ultimately, they landed in a really good place.

But anytime you're grafting a system onto a veteran borderline Hall of Fame quarterback, there's going to be some push and pull and some give and take and how that ultimately ends up looking. And it's going to have to be a much better marriage in Denver than it was in Seattle the last couple of years, in my opinion, for this to work out. Yep. And I think Pete Carroll, in retrospect, could have done a better job of, of, how Pete Carroll's never had to worry about how he messages publicly or spin something or says how it is because he's been so successful.

He's never been the type of guy who's overly worried about what people are saying about him. But I think in this situation with Wilson, those things mattered a great deal to Wilson. And you could have probably done a lot of things similar to how you did him, but if you would have said things differently, I think it could have created the type of impression that is important to Russell Wilson, that, hey, And, well, yeah, we are running more and more of this through Russ. All of those types of things, I think, are obviously important to him. I mean, he's publicly said like it's bothered him, I think, that, or he's one of the MVP votes, right? He never got one. So some of that is just packaging, just saying it.

Because when you look at the way they played offense and Seattle, it's been a huge thing. Seahawks' Twitter up in arms backwards, they don't run it enough, or they don't pass it enough. We're talking about three or four pass plays a game or a half. I mean, that's all we're talking about. It's not like they've been Tebow-type pass ratios. They had one year they did that, 2018, that's it. The other years have been... God, that team was unwatchable.

Yeah, they've... I did it so the rest of you didn't have to. The other years, since then, they've been in the top 10 in the league with how frequently they pass. It's a non-story, but it continues to define as if it is the story. And I think that bothers Wilson. He doesn't want that to be the perception that it's highly managed. and we just play defense and run the ball. But they haven't been just doing that.

They've been throwing the ball a lot. Yet Pete never really sold it that way. And I think that I think that's a factor in how Russell has felt like he's been misperceived or perceived. Taking a step back here and just kind of looking at the big picture of this as it relates to some of the other moves we made, I think one of the lessons that we can learn from the Stafford trade is that it's hard to overpay for these guys. whatever the package looks like at first glance. Man, two first round picks for Matthew Stafford. That seems like a lot.

And then you go from a below average passing offense to literally the offense to finish number one in the league in passing EPA. And again, it's not a one-for-one comparison, but I do think it's important to understand that if you're a Broncos fan and you have sat there and you have watched guy after guy cycle in and out and you look at the other teams in your division, and even watching a game just feeling how different it is, when you have one of the guys and when you don't.

That's all that matters here if you're Denver. Now you have one of the guys where he stacks up and whether he's on the decline, all of that stuff is worth exploring. I think for the organization in Denver and I think for the people who are fans of that organization in Denver, that has to be the way that they're going to ultimately spend this. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I guess I just circle back to, I think what I've said every time we've talked about the Broncos for the last two years, probably every single podcast that we've

done every single radio interview I do when I talk about the Broncos, it all comes back to having that quarterback. And it's been infuriating for years to just go through this cycle of, you know, the Teddy Bridgewater versus Drew Locke competition was about as good as it got. I mean, there was the summer of Paxton Lynch versus Trevor Simeon. I mean, it's been some really depressing shit around here that this organization has tried to sell it. They've tried to sell it to their fans. Their fans are smart enough. They know. I actually went to the week week 18 is that what we're calling it? Week 18 the last week of the season with my husband and my daughter and I sat in the stands with them and talked to the people who were in the seats around

us and they were booing Drew Locke and they were just like this is a miserable place to be when Patrick Mahomes was on the field for the chiefs. I mean, you're watching the complete ends of the spectrum. So, you know, this was the massive type of move that the Broncos had to make and we'll see if it works. I mean, I, this division is going to be killer. Every single Broncos Chiefs game, every single Chiefs Chargers game, you know, I think the Raiders are going to be competitive in all of those games. And it's just, it's going to be really hard to come out of that division. But all of a sudden, now the Broncos are relevant. And they were in that mix of the teams who just didn't matter. And that, that sucks. It's a really rough place to be when you just know that you're heading into a season that you're trying to convince yourself that like maybe you can win eight or nine games. But ultimately, you just. don't matter in the scope of the NFL. And as of today, the Broncos matter again. And that's probably the most important thing if you're the Broncos or people who

chair for that team. Mike, who would you say are the losers in this situation, the teams that are sitting here watching that trade being like, man, because the first one that comes to mind for me is Washington. Two years in a row now. They've wanted the big fish. They have struck out. And now they're left wondering what the hell comes next.

Well, look at Washington, Indianapolis, Carolina. I mean, these are teams that are that are, that are, fumbling around trying to get a guy and desperate. I think what makes you truly desperate is when you think you have a good team and this is the one thing holding you back. Yeah. So I don't know that, you know, Russell Wilson was maybe never. I'm not sure Carolina should consider themselves in that category. Right. But Indy should. Indy should. I mean, Indy was number one on my angst index because their owners beside himself. And they've built this team. They've done a lot of things the right way. A lot of us have said, hey, we like the way they built this team. It was all under the

assumption for a while. They'd have Andrew Luck. So now, they're bouncing around and the owner's recording video messages on his tarmac by his plane because he's so freaking pissed. That's an interesting position to be in when you just, don't you feel like if they had, if they had Russell Wilson, you'd be saying, wow, okay, put them up there. They can go to the AFC championship game. But they're just stuck. They're just stuck.

They've tried, but haven't been able to get this. And so I think it's great for Denver that, hey, the one thing that they had to be was being in the Drewlock world. So they have a top 10 quarterback at worst, right? They have a top 10 quarterback in the league. They're viable. They're probably not going to win the AFC West, but they're going to be in the mix. And these other teams are probably, if you're Washington, and you're probably looking at that and saying two first and two seconds, we could have done that. We would have done that. And they probably, maybe they did offer that sort. But, you know, he also has some control here, right? No trade clause. I mean, it's, I assume Seattle would have rather sent him to the AFC than the

NFC, there are a bunch of different things involved here. But this is an argument. You're looking around going, what else can we do? What more can we do? And now you have to get into that pool of saying, do we want to pursue Deshaun Watson? Do we want to get into that conversation? Is it Jimmy Garapolo? I mean, the drop-off now is pretty significant from a on-field performance standpoint or

from a off-field questions viewpoint. I do think this is an argument now when you look at what the Broncos just did. And you think about what the Rams did the year before. or even the bucks, building up your roster and being quote unquote a quarterback in a way and being a tantalizing destination for some of these guys, there's value in that. We've seen it several times recently where if you create a hospitable environment for whatever quarterback you're chasing and that quarterback wants to come there, that ultimately can make the difference.

And apparently that's what Russell Wilson saw Denver as was the right landing spot for him. But why wouldn't you be doing that anyway, just improving your team until you can find a quarterback? I think that there are some people who look at when you're building up, like the extensions they handed out to guys like Cortland Sutton and Tim Patrick. Is that worth doing if you don't have the right quarterback? Are you investing in a version of your team that ultimately isn't worth investing in? Is the quarterback the last piece or the first piece, I think is a worthwhile team building question? And I think several times in the last couple years, we've seen that the quarterback being the last piece can work for you. You always have to get one when you can get one, but you can't control when you can get one.

Exactly. So like the Rams didn't have some plan to do it this way and then get Stafford. They got a one and a million shot where Stafford said, hey, can I leave? And the new, the owner, and by the way, the GM was the Rams for an office guy. I was like, sure, yeah, you can go. And then they took a vacation and we're in the same spot. I mean, that's not a plan for anybody. No one can do that.

But it is a plan. The plan is always be on your toes to get that guy when you can get him and be willing to do it and have an owner who's willing to eat the golf contract and all of that. All of that is enabled from the top of the organization from the owner, including, by the way, trading Russell Wilson. You have to have, this stuff's hard to do. Not everybody can do it. But if you can get a top quarterback, no matter how or when, you need to do it. I think the argument against it, I don't agree with this, is with the culture dealing with. with right now, right? You're picking 20th every year. You don't have a path to do it in free age

through the draft. If you don't have the opportunities, I mean, there's only one Stafford, right? There's essentially one of these per year. The game-changing guy who's available to theoretically anyone, let's say it's half the league if you pay the right price. So it's a tiny needle that you have to thread. And that's the problem. But if you're the Colts, now what are you going to do? You're going to cycle through a Garoppolo again and then what does it look like next year? That treadmill was tough to be on, but I think setting yourself up for one of these moves, there is value in it. And we've seen that multiple times recently. All right.

You guys want to get to a couple of the other news items here before we get out of here? Yeah. Mike, did you, after all the conversations you had, the feeling you had about Era Rogers and the Packers, is this the ending that you anticipated? Yes. And I've been saying that for a few months now because I think that Rogers has made it clear he was no longer really upset with the organization. I think a year ago he was really pissed off. And it was personal with him and the general manager. When you're pissed off, you do rash things.

I think it's all, Green Bay's always been the fit for him, always been the best spot from a football standpoint. But I think he was mad enough a year ago to tear it up and storm out of the room. But he made it clear. He appreciated what Brian Gutakunson, the organization had done to make him feel included. I think that relationship was mended. And for that reason, I think that a guy like him who obviously cares about how he's perceived, cares about he's correcting contract terms on Twitter and cares about his legacy as all of these guys

do. He wasn't going to force his way out unless it was really untenable. I thought the Packers would really have had to have screwed it up, you know, in the last couple weeks for him to do what was going to be necessary to leave. Because remember, he didn't have a easy opt out. He would have had to get messy and force his way out. I don't think he was going to do that unless he was pissed. I think he stopped being pissed, so he was going to stay. I'd say the one thing that was really telling to me over the last couple weeks was hiring Tom Clements as the quarterbacks coach. And Matt LaFleur was pretty clear that Rogers had a big say in that. That was a guy that would be incredible.

You pushed to hire a quarterbacks coach and one week later. You're like, peace. Just kidding. Sorry, guys. Yeah. So I just think that there was, you know, all along this seemed like the most likely outcome. I totally agree. And it was building and building and building to it from last year.

And every time I went on Denver Sports Radio, people didn't want to hear it. But it was building to that. And it would have taken a major, I think, change of heart out of Rogers over the last few weeks to change that. The one reason that it was always out there and wondering is because none of us know exactly what Aaron Rogers is thinking and feeling at any moment. And he was the biggest NFL wild card where he was liable to do anything or say anything. And, you know, now he's like Mike said, he's still correcting the contract terms. He's saying he hasn't actually signed. And part of that I think might be him just wanted to like stick it to Ian Rappaport a little.

a little bit. But look, he's going to, it's going to come in in that $200 million range. And they're probably just quibbling over decimal points at this point. So he's getting the money. He's getting the satisfaction of knowing that his voice is heard. And they have to be the, I guess them in the Rams, right? We'll see what the Rams do with the rest of their roster. But it's a pretty clear path in the NFC or straight to the NFC championship game

if they can just manage to not blow it on special teams in the postseason. Every single factor pointed to this. This is the best chance for him to win. He cares about the people in the building. It seemed like the relationships had defrosted a little bit. They had thawed. Every single factor pointed to this. It's not surprising at all.

The one thing that might be surprising, Mike, we talk about changes of heart. This team is going to have to do some things financially now that they have traditionally not been super comfortable with doing. If you look at the way a team like New Orleans operates, if you look at what the Bucks did last year, we're like, you know what, we're going to kick the can down the road. because we're ready, we're there. The Packers historically have not done those things as full force as some of these other franchises.

Now they're going to have to. Does it seem like that change of heart is part of the overall calculus that went into him staying and has been the change that's mattered there? I think that this is a unique situation almost in league history, but Packer history, and it shows that you have to adapt. You can't just unilaterally apply. the old maxims all the time. And so one of those maxims was, hey, when you trade up to take a guy in the first round of a quarterback like that did Jordan Love, he has to play within a couple years,

right? That's always the way it is. Okay, but what if you have a guy who's the MVP to the league next two years? There's no precedent for that. That's why people who said he's gone for sure in two years, be careful. He probably was going to be gone in two years, but they've had to adapt because they didn't expect he was going to go MVP twice or else they wouldn't have drafted love. They didn't know that. So this is an extremely weird circumstance that you have to roll with. And once that happens, now yes, you're going to do some things in a way that you didn't plan to do them. But that's just because the circumstances are so unusual. It's really unprecedented. This is unprecedented. It's funny to me. They grossly, oh, sorry, they grossly

underestimated how petty Aaron Rogers is going to be. Which you should never underestimate that, by the way. You should understand the power of that at all times. Mike, do you, if you were a team like the Colts, okay? When you're, now you're up there at the top of that angst list. How quickly are you picking up the phone and making a call about Jordan Love if you like Jordan Love as a prospect? It's hard. I don't think that's what does it. I mean, are you, if you do that, you're resetting and saying we're, all this we've been building for now, we're going to do a couple of your reset.

I don't think that's where they're at. I'd rather, I'd probably rather come back with Wents than do that. I mean, is there any evidence? Unless you love Jordan Love. I mean, what evidence is there that Jordan Love is going to elevate your team? If you like him as a prospect, if you think it's a pathway to one of those difference-making quarterbacks. I think that's the argument, right? Then do it if you think that, but do you know anyone who thinks that?

No, I don't. You'd have to think that in order to make the move. Yes, if you think that, yes. But if they think that, I just don't think anyone thinks that. It's an unfortunate thing to have traded up in the first round and go get him then. It is. If I am them, though, here's how I spend it. Yeah, we lit a fire under Aaron's ass. He played MVP twice. None of you guys with all your fancy analytics were saying that. You were all saying he was done for three years. That's some galaxy brain shit. We had to trade up to draft a guy in the first round to get the most out of Aaron Rogers. And listen, it ended up working out great. But it's pretty damn funny that that's how it ended up happening. Yeah. I mean, he gets to rub it in their face, Rogers, because they'll probably have to get rid of love or they're certainly not going to start him. So big win for him. It's awesome for him. It's really great for him. But it's great for the Packers. Yes, they screwed up. We all said that. They shouldn't have done that. I don't get it. I don't know why they did it. They should have drafted a player who could be helping them now,

but they did it, and they had an MVP for two years. You could make a case. I know Randy Mueller on our podcast does. He thinks getting love really lit the fire, really pushed Rogers even more. So it's a defensible position. So a couple of the bits of news today. Mike Williams signed a three or $60 million deal with the Chargers. Good for Mike Williams. I don't think there's a lot to analyze there. I mean, they wanted to commit to him. They have some cap space. They're collecting those weapons around Justin Herbert. I assume they will try to add some speed at some point in the draft.

Even if they drafted a guy high, let's say, in the first round, by the time that extension comes around, Keenan Allen's deep into his 30s, you can make some changes there. So I think that there's still past catching moves coming for the chargers, but this was not surprising to me. I think for them, they don't want to create another obvious need going to the draft, right? We've talked so much about they need to get their defensive line. And we've been talking about the style of defense they play. Can you get somebody who can really help you stop the run with a lighter box, all of that? You don't need to be like, oh, and by the way, we really might need a number one receiver too, right?

So this is a guy who you know, you trust, you like, and you have the funds to do it. You reward one of your own. And by the way, you do have a quarterback now in Justin Herbert, who's in that window and needs as many weapons as you can get around them, right? Let's not create a new need. So I think that's a, I don't want to say a no-brainer, but it makes a lot of sense to me. We'll see what the number is this year, too. I mean, if they want to keep it a little bit lower so they can do some spending, if they want to go get a right tackle, which they certainly need.

They'll add multiple pieces along the defensive line. I think they'll make them a couple moves at corner. I think it's going to be a very active offseason for this team, even after signing Mike Williams to that extension. The last bit of news, Lindsay, that I found kind of surprising just because of conversations we had on today's podcast with Nate about which players were available, which direction the jacks might go at number one. Cam Robinson franchise for the second straight year, which not only is kind of surprising financially,

but could throw a wrench into what the top five of the draft ends up looking like. Yeah, absolutely. Because you think you have to look at that and say, okay, well, that seems to be a clear indication that they're going to take Aiden Hutchinson. And that changes. I mean, if you're Detroit, that changes what you're thinking because Detroit wasn't going to take a left tackle. you would think with their first round pay.

So it's going to shift a lot of things. So a little surprising, I guess. Yeah, I was, it was that and all these tight ends are getting tagged. So that was really what the game of tag was today. Yeah, the tight end ones I can theoretically understand. I still think it's a lot. It's a lot for Micahisiki and Dalton Schultz, in my opinion, when you consider where I guess the dolphins, they have all the money in the world who really cares.

But with the cowboys and the cuts that they're potentially going to be making, devoting $10 million to Dalton Schultz is. Sure, if you want to, it's a little bit confusing to me. But Cam Robinson, when you consider the other avenues they had to draft the left tackle potentially, that one was surprising to me. And now it opens up a whole different set of options for them and who might be interested in those top tackles. And if, you know, obviously Detroit doesn't want one, so who are the lion's going to take?

We will have a lot of time to explore all of those questions. There's a lot of mock draft that published today, Dane Bruegler, that probably just need to get torn up and republish tomorrow. Well, we had a podcast that we were supposed to record today. They had to get torn up. So I completely understand how they're feeling. It is a wild time, as it always is, in the NFL offseason. Thank you guys very much for scrambling to do this.

It's always great to get your perspective on this stuff. Appreciate the time. Guys, please go check out the football GM on Apple Audio Plus with Mike Sando and Randy Mueller on Saturdays. If you're an athletic subscriber, you can also listen to it on the athletic app. They do a fantastic job. I highly encourage you guys. to check that out.

Our schedule changed a little bit. Thursday, me, Nate, and Sheel are going to be doing our defensive free agency preview. We're going to have our conversation and our episode with Barnwell later in the week, potentially Friday. So be on the lookout for that. Very glad we could get this to you guys, though. Please rate and review the podcast on your podcast platform of choice. I sincerely appreciate that. Please subscribe to The Athletic.com slash football show.

there will be plenty of reactions to this and everything that the Russell Wilson trade and there's Aaron Rogers signing means for the quarterback market and the offseason at large. So please go check that out. We'll be back on Thursday with Nate and Sheal. Talk to you guys later. This was the Athletic Football Show.