The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Sean Payton steps down as Saints head coach after 16 seasons - reaction with Katherine Terrell

Episode Date: January 26, 2022

Saints head coach Sean Payton abruptly announced he was stepping away from coaching the Saints after 16 seasons. The Athletic's Saints writer Katherine Terrell joins Lindsay Jones to react to the news following Payton's press conference and discuss the surprise of the announcement, whats next for the Payton, if he might ever coach again, what's next for the Saints, if the job is a desirable place and more analysis and reaction. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Football Show. Welcome to a special breaking news edition of the Athletic Football Show. I'm Lindsay Jones, a senior writer for the NFL. And I am joined today by our New Orleans Saints beat writer, Catherine Terrell, to cover the breaking news that Sean Payton has stepped down as the head coach of the New Orleans Saints. Catherine, how are you? Well, I just got back from a 90-minute press conference in the St. Indoor facility. my hands are numb from sitting in the cold for that long. So that tells you what kind of weird day it's been.

It's been a crazy day, but, you know, never a dull moment in the off season, right? Absolutely. So let's just get right into the news. I mean, there have been kind of rumors, some tweets going around over the last few days that Sean Payton was going to be kind of mulling his future and was not committed to returning to the Saints in 2022. So take us through the last couple days. And then ultimately, why did Sean Payton decide that this was the time to leave?

Well, Sean's been having these thoughts for a while. He said he started as early as training camp, but he was kind of joking that everyone feels that way every training camp, since training camp is such a grind. So he didn't really think much of it. And he didn't tell anybody. He said the thoughts just kept persisting through the season. And then once the Saints got all the way down to that last game against Atlanta, he didn't know for sure that it was the end.

He said he wasn't walking around, you know, saving programs and things like that. But, you know, he did kind of stand there in the locker room and think, well, if it is the end, you know, beating Atlanta again is a nice way to go out. So he said basically what he did was he had, he kind of made his decision and then took a week to confirm the decision is what he said. He had meetings with Dennis Laosha, the Saints president, the Saints General Manager, Mickey Loomis, and then St. owner, Gail Benson, he said one by one, they all tried to talk him out of it. But, you know, ultimately his decision was made. Now, he's not ruling out returning to coaching, but I think for now, he just kind of needs to do something different.

Were you surprised ultimately by this decision? I was. I mean, I know that I knew that what his thoughts were very real. I don't think it felt like the other times. I mean, there have been years where they've said, you know, Sean Payton is leaving and I practically kind of just blew it off. I just didn't think it was going to happen. But this time, yes, ultimately, I was surprised because coaches don't walk. away from coaching. They just don't. They think about it, but they don't do it until somebody

makes them walk away. So that's my long rambling answer to a short question that you had. Well, you sat through all 92 minutes, I believe, of his press conference, his kind of farewell address. We, the rest of us kind of watched it at home on and off on NFL network as they cut in and out. What were your biggest takeaways from what Sean Payton had to say as he was saying goodbye. Well, I think that despite the amount of time he talked, we still are left with some question. He said he's not burnt out. This season wasn't exhausting. He said it was exciting. You know, Peyton thrives on, he loves a good crisis to unite his team. So them having to evacuate the Texas for a month was not something that exhausted him. He said it excited him.

So I don't know. I find it interesting that he's not done with coach. He raised the possibility that he might still do it. He's not tired, but he just feels that it's time to go. And I think, you know, as a reporter, you keep thinking, what could you have asked him to kind of dive deeper into why he's doing this? And I think ultimately he would have repeated the same thing. He just feels its time. And I do often think that many coaches, once they pass the 10-year mark,

the 15-year mark, you start to feel that. I mean, you can see with Andy Reid, when he initially left Philly, and how successful he's been now that he's kind of, I guess, gotten recharged and things like that. There's a reason coaches don't coach for decades. So a lot of questions still, but, you know, it'll be interesting to see where his path goes in the next year, two years. Before we start looking towards what's next, let's look back just a little bit. You're a Louisiana native. You've been covering the Saints for a really long time, a couple different stints down there.

What ultimately is going to be Sean Payton's legacy? as the Saints coach. And what does he mean to the city of New Orleans and the state of Louisiana? Well, I think he'll be remembered as innovative. He'll be remembered at a brilliant offensive mind. You know, it sounds like I'm talking about someone that's no longer with us, but we tend to do that when coaches move on or retire. We talk about him in past terms. But, you know, ultimately, he's going to remember for two things. He's going to be forever linked with Drew Brees. I mean, Those two will go hand in hand for the rest of their lives. And what a great tandem they were.

And, you know, what brilliant things they came up with together on offense. But also, he's going to be remembered as the man who turned the New Orleans Saints fortunes around. Before he came, you know, 2005, Hurricane Katrina had hit season tickets weren't selling. The Saints were considered a laughing stock. And, you know, he came. He changed everything right. from the get-go, 2006. They got all the way of the NFC championship game.

And now people don't look at the States that way. They don't. I mean, it's totally changed how the world views him. I loved this quote he had talking about that first season. He said, you know, I respect the coaches and the players and the staff that all drove in when 90% of the people were driving out. And he means New Orleans after Katrina, obviously. So he really, really changed a lot there.

But ultimately, he's going to leave a legacy. a franchise that is better for him having been there. So now the big question is what's next for Sean Payton? He hasn't ruled out a return to coaching, potentially just for 2022. So what do you think comes next? Do you think he returns to coaching? Do you think TV is in his future? Seems like maybe some tailgating might be in his future.

Cluison, what's coming next for him? Well, if he's going to do TV, he's going to learn, he's going to have to learn how to cut down the story time a little bit. We usually don't get 90 minutes shot press conferences. So this is a TV audition. Might need to trim that. I could see him doing TV. He said he would love to do it. He said he wants to travel, spend more time with his kids and get in better shape. But let's be real. We all say that whenever we have a week or so of free time. And then how often does that really happen? So ultimately, I think we see him coach again. It's so rare that coaches leave the game and don't coach again.

I mean, look at Bill Cowher. He was linked to every coaching job in the world for years because no one could believe that a coach didn't want to coach. So it's in his blood. Now, he did say coaching is what I do, not who I am. But I don't know. The type of person he is, I don't know where it'll be. I know everyone wants to link him in Dallas together.

Who knows if the timing will be right or if he goes to Dallas because I think some fans in New Orleans would have something to say about that. But ultimately, within the next five years, I think he's back in the NFL. Yeah, if he did end up taking another coaching job next year, I think the Saints would have to be compensated in some way, similarly to when Bruce Ariens took the job in Tampa, the Cardinals got some compensation. I will say it's going to be a miserable year to be Mike McCarthy in Dallas

with this looming over him all year long. He's already being linked to Dallas today. I was on Twitter during the press conference, and it was already people saying, well, Sean Payton could go to Dallas. I mean, that's going to be a long year for Mike, just like you said, because Peyton laughed.

He basically was trying to say, I can't help it what other people say, but I don't plan to coach in 2022. But then he said, he said, it seems like 10 years have gone by, and I've been linked to that team. You know he was talking about the Cowboys.

I mean, he didn't say to my name, but he said that team, and I can read between the lines. So, yeah, I mean, it'll be a long year for McCarthy and also a long year for anyone who has to follow in Peyton's footsteps. I mean, just look at trying to follow Drew Breeze. Now you're trying to follow Peyton without Drew Breeze. And it's going to be tough, but it'll be interesting to see if they just go with Dennis Allen or after doing some interviews

or if they really do try to bring in someone totally new, I don't know. I can see the Saints just wanting to kind of keep the good thing they have going and retain the staff. But who knows? Yeah, they will have to fulfill the Rooney Rule requirements. So even if Dennis Allen is kind of the guy that everybody in the building wants, they can't just go ahead and hire him right now.

They'll actually have to go through a real hiring process. And it's probably worth. I mean, at this point when you haven't had a new head coach in that long, you know, bring some people in the building, see what, you know, some ideas are out there and get some other candidates. Are there any other idea? This is so fresh, but any other ideas that you have of, um, if it's not Dennis Allen, either specific names or the type of coach that you think might be good for the saints given where they're at right now. Well, I think I saw them already linked to Aaron Glenn. Which that's an interesting name, right? And yeah, and all the

chaos, I'd have to go check on that again. Um, but obviously the obvious name. is Eric B. Enemy. I mean, offensive, well, I know sometimes teams want to go the opposite way of the coach they have, but that's usually when their coach was fired. So, I mean, that's the obvious name, right? It would just make, well, I can't say it would make sense. I don't, I'm not in interviews, but I think it would make sense as a candidate. As for the other ones out there, I find it interesting that no team has yet named a head coach, and I did ask Gail Benson today, Do you feel a sense of urgency, you know, to get kind of on board and start doing these interviews, or do you feel okay about it because no one's named a head coach?

And she just said, you know, they feel fine about it and that they're going to do a thorough coaching search and out of the building. I mean, that's how they found Sean Payton. He came out of the building. Jim Haslett technically came out of the building, but he'd been with the Saints before. So it's been 16 years. So I don't, I can't really tell you exactly. how they're going to go about it, but it'll be fun to watch, I guess, if you're not the one covering it. So how attractive is this job, given kind of where the state of the Saints roster is,

their salary cap situation? I know you were working on your annual, how in the heck do they manage their salary cap? Because they always do. They figure it out. There's some sort of magicians there, but how attractive is this job for these candidates who may have multiple, you know, multiple suitors? well it's interesting again it i mean this day's been chaotic but i you know i've been looking at twitter in between especially because the press conference was so long and i was tweeting it out and you know you already had a section that's say the same job is not a good job because it you know it needs to the roster needs to be blown up or sean left because he could see what was going to happen with the roster and he said the roster was not why he he left

i think that they have challenges i think obviously they are 70 million or more over the salary cap, which is better than last year. You don't look at the positive side. They don't have a quarterback and they have some aging defensive players. However, they have a very good core of defensive players. Their offense has its issues, but if you can get Michael Thomas back on board and back to this peak form, then you've got a star wide receiver. And you do need help there.

Obviously, if anyone had to endure watching the Saints offense, they know that. But no, I don't see it as an understanding. They have a great owner. Obviously, there's a lot of continuity there. Mickey Loomis has been there forever. Same with Gail Benson. Same with Saints President Dennis Laosha. So I do think there's a lot of reasons why you would take that job. You have an owner that's willing to spend money, first of all, and is not heavy-handed or heavy-handed in what she does. You know, everyone wants to link Peyton to Jerry Jones, but the question is always, could Peyton get along with an owner like Jerry Jones if he was the head coach.

I don't know, but that's a completely different situation than Gail Benson, who kind of just lets the team run itself. So, yeah, I think, I mean, I think it's an attractive job. I think it should be. I don't think their problems are as intersurmountable as people think. All right. Before we let you go, what's your one lasting memory of covering Sean Payton? I know you got a million stories, one you can share publicly on a podcast.

But, you know, when you think back to all the years that you've covered him, what's what's kind of the one thing that stands out? Oh, man. I probably share the story about my first year on the beat, right? I've told you this story. Let's go. Let's do it. Yeah. Okay, so my first year on the beat, I was instructed by my editor to always ask the injury questions. And maybe I haven't showed this story publicly. Anyway, Peyton hates injury questions. Everyone in the world knows that. So I'm just 23-year-old up there, the press conference, first year back, I'm always asking the injury question. So immediately, he just decides, I don't know who this person is, and I actually don't like them, like, at all. So the whole first year, there was one day I really irritated him with an injury question, and you could tell he was mad, and I went up there to, you know, kind of say,

hey, I'm still going to show up with the press conferences. is he answered everybody's questions in a normal manner except me and one other person he was mad at today. And you could tell him the transcript, every question was normal except two. And they were two-word answers. And I kind of laughed. It took a while for us to kind of get on level ground. But the way we did was I went to the combine, stood outside a door for several hours

where I knew he was, pretended to run into him. And then we talked it out. I said, I'm not a pain in your butt. And he said, you know, I really respect the media. And from that on, we were good. We had our ups and downs over the years, but, you know, we were good. And I loved it when Sean would be in a good mood. He'd get on the phone call or at the podium or whatever and, you know, tell stories like he did today.

We never got 90 minutes with Sean. But, you know, the Sean you see at the podium, the Sean you'd see like in a restaurant, just totally different people. You know, one time we walked in a restaurant, we saw Sean and his wife, Skyline. We talked for a little bit, just talking about stories about the team. We left. Payton had paid for the meals of everyone there very quietly. You know, it's just, it's a, you know this, Lindsay. It's a give and take when you're on the beat with someone for that many years,

and you know you're going to annoy them, and they're going to be tired of seeing your face. But at the end of the day, for the most part, you always respect each other. And so I've loved being able to cover this team for so long and just watching kind of Peyton and Breeze's brilliance over the years because when they were together and they were clicking, you always felt like something spectacular could happen offensively. And that was always fun to write about. Yeah, it's just unfortunate I never got another title together. It's crazy that that 2011 team didn't go to the Super Bowl.

to this day, it astounded me. I didn't cover that team. That was a year before I started covering the NFL. And that team was just incredible, incredible, probably one of the most talented teams to not get to a Super Bowl. Well, there's some good lessons in beat writing in there. We welcome Sean Payton. He is welcome to come to our pro football writers of America meeting as we fight to get back in the locker room.

He was an unlikely ally in our access fight. But we welcome him on. So, Catherine, thank you so much for joining. me here today on pretty short notice. It's been a wild day in New Orleans. We look forward to reading all your coverage coming later Tuesday night on The Athletic. On Wednesday, Dane Bruegler and Lance Zerline are back to talk about the Senior Bowl with Jim Nagy and Robert Mays will join them to talk about the 2021 rookie class. And then on Thursday, I'll be back with Robert for our midweek news show of the Athletic Football Show. Hopefully we'll have some head of coaching hires to

discuss. So until then, this is Lindsay Jones from The Athletic. Football Show. This was the athletic football show.