The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Senior Bowl takeaways, coaching carousel roundup, and veteran quarterback intrigue with Dianna Russini

Episode Date: February 3, 2025

Robert Mays and Dianna Russini kick off Super Bowl week with a crossover episode of The Athletic Football Show and Scoop City. The duo discusses Dianna's takeaways from the Senior Bowl, the behind-the-scenes elements of this year's head coach hiring cycle, the most interesting quarterbacks of the offseason, and more.RundownSenior Bowl takeawaysCoaching carousel roundupBrock Purdy/Niners negotiationsThe Matthew Stafford dominoSam Darnold's marketCould Russell Wilson and Pete Carroll reunite in Vegas?Host: Robert MaysCo-Host: Derrik KlassenWith: Dianna RussiniExecutive Producer: Michael BellerProducer: Michael BellerSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTubeFollow Robert on Bluesky: @robertmays.bsky.socialFollow Derrik on Bluesky: @qbklass.bsky.socialFollow Robert on X: @robertmaysFollow Derrik on X: @QBKlassTheme song: HauntedWritten by Dylan Slocum, Trevor Dietrich, Ruben Duarte, Kyle McAulay, and Meredith VanWoert / Performed by Spanish Love SongsCourtesy of Pure Noise / By arrangement with Bank Robber Music, LLC Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. Fun show for you guys today. It was becoming an annual tradition on this Sunday into Monday of Super Bowl week. Diana Rossini, host of Scoop City and our senior NFL insider here at The Athletic, join me to chat about, I don't know, every conversation she's been having over the last week. She was in Mobile talking about this year's draft class, talking about the coaching carousel, what the veteran quarterback market might look like this offseason. We dug into all of that.

just kind of a way to set the table about where the NFL world is right before we get into a very crazy week down here in New Orleans. Speaking of that, wanted to let you guys know at the top of the show. Every day on the Athletics YouTube channel this week, we are coming to you with a live stream from Radio Row. Me, Diana, Derek Classen, a bunch of our other athletic personalities, all the guests we're going to be talking to on Radio Row. We really encourage you guys to come check that out.

We've never done anything like this from the Super Bowl. It's a new thing for us. We're very, very excited about it. So just keep that on your radar as you think about just what sort of stuff you're trying to engage with over the course of Super Bowl Week. So let's get to that conversation with Diana right now. Joining me now, it is the Athletics Senior NFL Insider, Diana Rossini. This is becoming a yearly thing now.

We're in a hotel in New Orleans. We did this last year in Vegas. It's a tradition. As Super Bowl Week is getting started, we just kind of sit here and talk about your last week and what the what the scuttle butt is around the NFL right now yeah I literally hit the ground I landed just a few minutes ago and I immediately run right to your hotel because we got to record and talk um you know we don't do it enough right we both have our shows you got your own show now you got plenty in places that you can get to disseminate information I have to sit here and you

know hope that we can have these conversations because I don't have the information that you have so I need it from you but you have other places that you can give it now Well, I miss talking to you. I do have a bone to pick with you, though, because you are so good at podcasting and you've been doing it for such a long time. Yet, I feel like you didn't give me any tips before I started this thing. I am an open book. You just have to ask. I don't presume to think that I can give anybody advice on how to do it well.

But if people want to ask, I'm around. Well, I have learned that it takes a lot of work. You think about it constantly and you become really obsessed. with what the listener wants to hear and hear you and what they want to hear you talk about. Whereas when I was on television, I didn't really pay attention that much to the viewer. Not in a disrespectful way. I just kept moving along all the time and just did the programming I was asked to do. Whereas now, because I'm in control of a lot of what we're talking about,

I like hearing from our listeners and hearing what they have to say. And I run into them all the time. And it's really cool to build this little community. That's been the best part of this. I think that there's an intimacy with podcasting that you don't really understand until you start doing it regularly. With TV, there are so many layers of production and there's so many, there's a distance between you and the viewers because other people are tasked with figuring out what the show is supposed to look like and feel like. And you're a part of what feels like a larger machine. With podcasting, it's a very direct line to the people that are listening to you.

And I think that it changes your relationship to them and it changes your relationship to how you want it to go. and that's something that I, because I've done it for so long, I'm like very aware of that. But if you've never done it and had like your own show, I can understand where that would be a process. Well, speaking of machine, we're about to step into the machine of Super Bowl Week here. We're going to be on Radio Row every single day talking to so many different players and coaches and GMs, possibly some owners coming through. So it is truly the calm before the storm right now. So I'm so glad that we're able to kind of set the stage here on Sunday night before this thing gets absolutely. of control because I know my flight home is very different than my flight here. And I physically

look like a different human. I look about 40 years older than I do right now. I was here all week, all weekend, with my wife. And I mentioned her many times. I was just like, it's crazy that the Super Bowl was happening on Monday. Like, it was such a different experience being here this weekend. I almost forgot the fact that I'm about to start Super Bowl week in the same place. I'm glad I did it. I'm very glad I did it. We had a wonderful time. But part of me, even like walking past where the chiefs and the Eagles are staying. It's right by where we are right now. And just walking past that yesterday, I was like, oh, tomorrow there will be a bus outside

and there will be a ton of people. There already are. And so just the change and how quickly it happened, there was a fleet of tow trucks in the French quarter today. Like a fleet of tow trucks getting rid of all the cars. The party's coming. The transition has happened. Speaking of all the people that we're going to be talking to on Radio Row this week,

I mentioned this in the open, but figured we would just hit this at the top as well. We have a live stream coming to you guys on the athletics, YouTube channel every single day this week at 5 p.m. Eastern. Diane and I are going to be doing it several days this week. We're going to have a rotating set of hosts, a rotating set of guests. The goal really is just to give you guys an understanding and a feeling for what that week feels like and looks like. And so it's something different than we've ever done. You know, it's bigger than anything we've ever done. The set is going to look different than anything we've ever done. But I am very excited about it. And I think it's going to give people a really fun window into what those

five days kind of feel like for us. And here's what I love about it is you can plan and you think you know how it's going to go. And wild stuff just happens. It's the best. It becomes the newsiest week of the year. This is the NFL convention, so to speak. And every time I think I'm going to go on shows and come on podcast and talk about the storylines of what we're seeing here between, you know, strategy and strength between the Eagles and the Chiefs, everyone starts paying attention to everything else going around the league. And then Friday gets here and then it starts and you're like, okay, we got a game, baby.

So in the meantime, I'm just coming back from the Senior Bowl where there was a lot of shatter. Yes, it's a great event because we're kind of in the middle of nowhere, at least for someone like me that is from the northeast. It feels like nowhere, but I love it. And it's beautiful there. But you have every GM and head coach down there with the exception of the Eagles and the Chiefs people. I mean, they had their scouting group there, but they didn't obviously Brett Beach and have. Howie Rosen, we're not there. But everyone else was, and there was a very large contingent of the Tennessee Titans,

the Cleveland Browns, the New England Patriots even walking around. And you know when you see a lot of people, that means they've got a top pick. Let's dig into just what Senior Bowl Week felt like and what the conversations kind of sounded like down there. What was the general outlook about the draft class as you started kicking the tires as people really start getting into that mode of thinking about it? Yeah, I don't think it's anything that you don't know and those that are listening don't know. It's just it is a quarterback week class.

Yeah. And everyone just is very aware of that. But I think what makes it so interesting is there are just so many teams looking for one. So now you start to have this conversation of, okay, who is going to be the general manager that over-evaluates? Who is over-playing, overstating the talent and the skills of Shador Sanders? of Cam Ward. The two top quarterbacks will say are those are the two names that are leading at this moment, which could change. It's still only February. We've seen this before. But what a difference between this year and last year, right, in terms of obviously the talent. We know that. But just how we're

discussing the quarterback position coming out of this class, it was such a short thing by this time last year that Caleb Williams was going to Chicago. We were talking about it so nonchalantly. Like, yet, you know, you could make an argument that maybe we should have done that. Maybe we should have kept that conversation a little bit more open instead of assuming that he was going to be a short thing. Yes, he did go number one, but we saw what Jaden did this last year. Whereas this year, it's a flip and a flop.

I have GM telling me that these two quarterbacks are mid-round type talented quarterbacks. I've got, you know, other head coaches sharing with me that if these guys went or were drafted last year, they would fall between Pennix and Bo Nicks, maybe even after Bo Nix. I mean, that's not, that's even okay. Like, the fact that these guys might be between those two and those guys are drafted in the top 10, I think that's probably a positive way to spin it. That is a much different framing than their third or fourth round picks, which that is how some people feel about this. We talked to with Dane on Friday for something, hopefully we're going to incorporate into the live stream about the discussions he's had about the quarterbacks.

And there are plenty of people that just don't think their first round talent. So between Pennix and Bo Nix is actually a pretty rosy outlook for those two, I feel like. I can tell you, my podcast partner, Chase, does not think that. He agrees with some of the people that Dane spoke with that these are not first round guys. Jackson Dart was the headliner, I'd call him. Just because I think he's making a strong case for being the third. quarterback to go off the board. So I think that's another name that we can keep an eye on. But I just think collectively it's an overwhelming class with a lot of really hungry teams. And I'm

interested to see how these organizations are going to make decisions of do we just go with the bridge quarterback and wait? Do we show some patience or do we just go grab it? So that's what I'm curious about. You talk about that hunger at the top. Let's go through some of those teams and evaluate the level of hunger, right? So with Tennessee at one, do you feel like they feel a real urgency to find a quarterback out of this class or that they might be willing to wait and go a slightly different direction? I think they're feeling patient. I think they still think they can get some talent and skills and production out of Willevis after just being with Brian Callahan after one year. They've done a really good job of not really showing their cards.

And Chad Brinker was pretty open with the media saying that, you know, they're not going to pass on generational talent. So what does that look like? Right. So some people think that they could go defense instead of going with the quarterback. I can tell you there's going to be teams probably calling the Tennessee Titans to try to get up to see if they're open for business as we get closer. So in terms, let's just call it thirsty.

I don't sense Tennessee's thirsty headed into this draft. What does that say about their timeline? I find that really interesting because now you have a first year GM. You have, I don't know which Ad Breaker's title was president of something. It doesn't really matter. You have an executive who's been there for a couple years, but now the power structure changes a little bit. But you have a head coach coming in a year two that won three games last year. So is there a level of urgency?

Like what is the timeline? Can they afford to slow play this for another year? is Mike Borgonzi and Brian Calhann, are they on different timelines with different expectations? Like, if they do decide to go with Travis Hunter, whoever, whatever the best player available is at one or if they trade down, does that mean that this is a team that if they don't win a bunch of games this year, people are safe? I'm just curious, like, what the overall vibe and feeling is as they look toward what they want to accomplish over the next year or two. Well, let's just start with the structure right now. Okay. So you have Mike Borgonzi, who's the general manager. You've got Dave Ziegler, who's now in there, too, as the assistant general manager. And so together, they're going to be basically doing the heavy lifting when it comes to

evaluation of players. Kind of like a hybrid of what you see in Kansas City and in New England, how they model identifying players. That's how the Tennessee Titans are going to move forward. Chad Brinker's essentially going to be in between the team president and these guys and just kind of overseeing all of it. He's not an evaluation type of guy. He's a big analytics person.

He's a manager of people in this situation, it seems like, yeah. Correct. Which is fine. I think that's an understandable structure. I think that more teams are kind of going to that and having general managers that aren't necessarily like the Super Scout. And I think that it's probably a good way to approach the demands of the job. Correct, which is why I think good football players are going to be the focus for them,

not solely just quarterback and forcing. that unless, you know, they fall in love with a guy, which we don't know yet. You know, know, we're at that point where we're not sure what they're seeing. So in terms of your question of specifics to Brian Callahan's timeline, from what I know, Brian Callahan is light. Was there, there were some tough times last year for sure in terms of the dynamic between Rand Cartha and the then GM and what Brian was doing, which was not a lot of winning. But I also think he's a coach that learned a lot from this last year and I shared this on the last episode of Scoop City about just what the type of reflection he's going through right now, the mistakes he made and leaning on

his father as well to grow from that. So I think ownership from what I understand has that same belief in him. And I do think bringing in someone like a Mike Berganzi who's been part of an organization that, you know, you hear these stories where Bergenzi was part of a team that or a group that discovered Patrick Mahomes, or at least he had his eye on him, which a lot of people had their eye on Patrick Mahomes, if you recall. But look, he's seen an organization that has a very clear structure and identity of how they do things.

And I just think that's what the Tennessee Titans had been looking for since they've moved on from John Robinson and Mike Rabel. Titans are at one. The Browns are at two. The Browns, to me, are the most interesting team in this entire conversation. because we'll talk about the Giants in a second. Giants need a quarterback. The Giants need an answer.

Those guys are who knows what their timeline is. I think there's a real urgency to find some solutions for that team. With the Browns, I can understand going either way. I can understand them saying, we don't need to force it here. We have an otherwise strong roster, but they don't have an answer at quarterback. And whether that's Kirk Cousins on the minimum, whatever, I can understand going that direction. But I'm wondering if they think their roster is strong enough at this point that Andrew Barry sitting there looking at this and saying, we may not be here again. Like, this is our

chance to get on a rookie quarterback timeline. The problem is, this doesn't seem like the year to do it. So as you look at Cleveland situation and what their motivations are here, do you think it points to them wanting to come out of the top five of this draft with a quarterback? They have literally nobody on the team that can play. So I think they're going to go get a quarterback. Maybe they go get two. The Cousins Plus Rookie thing to me is not the worst plan. You spend a million bucks on Cousins. and then you get your hopeful quarterback of the future. You can sit him this year if you want to. I actually think that's a pretty good way to think about it.

Yeah. And we don't know what's going to happen with the Deshaun-Watson situation. We just know that he's coming off another Achilles' terror. And, you know, it's going to be time before he's back on the field. So they need to move forward with the future. It's almost like they're operating as if he doesn't exist because they need to. Yeah, which I understand. And I think Kevin Sopensky and Andrew Berry need to as well.

I'm not saying that they're on a hot seat or anything, But we know that last year there were some tough times in that building about the future of the Cleveland Browns and what directions they wanted to go because it just appeared nobody had any answers for how to help improve Deshaun Watson, but also how to consistently get the most out of a quarterback playing in that position. When we've seen Kevin Stefansky have so much success in the past and it just, something was really off this past season. So I do think ownership wants to give them more time here to figure this out. and draft a quarterback. So while we talk about the Titans one hand, maybe looking at all their options and being in control at the top,

I do think we'll see the Cleveland Browns a little bit more locked in at that quarterback spot. So you think it, let's say the Giants, hypothetical, let's say the Giants trade up to one, because again, I do think they have the most urgency here. I do. They're willing to give away a little bit. They're the thirsty team.

Yes. And that understandable, based on where they sit right now, you think even if the Browns are left with the second quarterback in this group, they're thinking, it's more about we want the, quarterback, not about the guys. Do you think they like these quarterbacks or do you think they just want to come away from this draft with a quarterback? I think they want to come away from this draft

with a quarterback knowing that they have to fix the mistake, so to call it, from the last few years here with DeCont Watson, knowing that they're not getting anything out of this. And I don't think they want to continue just bringing in these bridge players. They want to start developing one. And I do think Kevin Sophanci has that ability if he can find the guy that he likes. The question mark is going to be Who is that guy? Which one is it going to be? And is it the same quarterback that the New York Giants are going to be after? I think if the Tennessee Titans were open to training out with the New York Giants,

I think the Giants would do it yesterday. They just have to be able to go find their guy. And the Browns just have to hope it's not the same one that they want. Do you think the Giants' urgency is driven by how much they like one of these quarterbacks? or do you think it's driven by, we know the reality of the situation. It's easier to sell our future to ownership if we can build it around a guy that is kind of like this beacon of hope. Beacon of hope. And I just go back to this is not having knowledge.

This is just watching how this is all come together. John Mara shared exactly how he feels about the situation, which is. I appreciate it, but I would also be like, the fact that your boss is just sitting there laying out all the cards on the table in that interview is just like, my God. I kept thinking, why didn't he go out there and say, these are my guys, I believe in them. We met, we spoke, we went through the season, we've made mistakes, but these are the two best, this GM and this head coach are the two best in football,

and I believe in them, and I'm behind them. Instead of, I mean, they better win. You know, like I've lost my patience. It was a terrible message. Because what does that do to people when they hear that the pressure's on? people don't make good decisions when they're under pressure. Yeah. Your incentives completely change.

Everything changes. All your decision making. And then what's the tone of the building then? And then how does that affect the players and practice? And there's so many tentacles to it. Does the clock start week one? I mean, is this what we're talking about this? It's already started.

I think the hourglass has already turned over if you're in that building. And that's just not a good place to be. I say that with a lot of scar tissue about how the last like 10 years that the Chicago Bears organization has operated. When you walk into a season and there's an incentive for the coaching staff and the front office to draft the quarterback and make that guy work because you're on the hot seat, I would challenge somebody to figure out how many times that's worked. Like how many times that's been a productive setup going into a year? Do you ever wonder if owners ever look at that information? Like on our show, we had Kevin Fishbane come on to just rip through the Chicago history with their offensive coordinators, with their head coaches, with their quarterbacks.

And essentially what you just said, how it's all worked. Everyone basically was just saving their own neck by making the decisions that they were making. Yet the New York Giants, John Mara, who I like to think is a smart man knows, they're just going to operate based on what they think is going to put them in the best position. Here's what I would say about this. I've made the comparison with the Bears and the Giants a bunch of different times. As I think about the mindset and kind of what the ownership groups project outward. I don't think that George McCasky and John Mara are frivolous people who are doing things in a way that is like actively a deterrence to their organization.

Like they're not doing things that Woody Johnson has done over the last calendar year. I think that to a fault, they try to do the thing they feel is reasonable, right? And so you let's rewind a year to where the bears were after that season with Matt Eber flips. If I'm George McCasky and Ryan Pace and I, Ryan Pulse, Jesus. If I'm George McCasky and Ryan Poles. I would listen. It's all the same. You look at that situation with Iber Fus last year and you say, you know what?

The defense came along at the end of the year. Like a rational person would look at what he has done and say, I can understand why we should keep him. Like firing him would be irrational. Like that would be something we don't need to do. But if you had just done the Ben Johnson thing last year, you would have been in a better situation. Like sometimes doing the rational, thoughtful, measured thing is not the right thing. I think some of these guys want to be viewed as not chaotic in the way that some of these other owners are and it leads them down the wrong path. And I think that John Mara almost to a fault is trying to do the thing he feels is right and reasonable.

And sometimes you don't need to do the thing that's right and reasonable to make it be in the best interest of your organization. They think by sticky with the people that they believed in means that they've been. Right, almost through it. By firing, you admit that you made a mistake. And I think it projects stability to them. Yes. And I think stability in a situation that's not a good situation is overrated. So then why are they so blinded by it, right? Because you could even use the Jets as an example. After last season, obviously they fired Robert Sala this past season after five weeks. But they had the opportunity to fire him the year before with other candidates that would have been available who they interviewed in this.

last coaching cycle that they didn't get because they didn't make that move earlier. And they could have had them last year. So for the sake of stability, they're setting back their organization. And it's just going to hurt them because I don't think that this is breaking news. But I have a feeling John Mira is going to probably be looking for head coach at a GM at the end of the season. And look, I want Brian Dable and Joe Shane to have success. I want to see the New York Giants crawl their way out of this. But they've been set up to fail at this point because by Mera keeping them employed, everyone's intentions are in the wrong place.

And it's not for the best of the New York Giants, in my opinion. It's funny because I think that some people look at quarterbacks is like an antidote and a fix-all where if this guy is the guy, then it can change everything about where we are. And I understand thinking of it that way. But I just feel like those guys are a lot rarer than we make it out to be. I agree. but to counter that, going through this coaching cycle. When I was talking to the guys that were all interviewing for these different positions, they all just said the same thing.

I need to go somewhere with a quarterback. Nobody wanted to go to Las Vegas and figure out what they wanted to do there. Nobody wanted to go to New Orleans and figure out if they could squeeze more out of their car or if they're going to have to go find someone else. Ben Johnson went to the Chicago Bears for one reason. And it's Caleb Williams. Let's take into that in a second. First, we're going to take a quick break.

So let's talk about the coaching carousel and just what you were hearing about it when you were down in Mobile and just kind of digging into it now that we're in that like second weight of evaluation. So in your opinion, that really was the driving force behind the appeal of these jobs. And the fact that Mike Vrable and Ben Johnson, who I think coming into the cycle were probably, I would say two of the three most attractive candidates. I would say it was Johnson, Aaron Glenn, Mike Vrable. You can correct me if I'm wrong on that. But the fact that those two guys, Rable and Johnson, came off the board very quickly

when those teams wanted to make a decision and they went to the two places with the young quarterbacks already in place that doesn't feel like an accident. I don't think we have to put it in order, but just because I know who they interviewed with and how those interviews went

and the conversations I had, it went my Rable, Ben Johnson, Aaron Glenn, in terms of the interest from teams. You know, outside of, I think, guess it was just the Saints and the Jets didn't interview Ben Johnson, but he was somebody that the New England Patriots were interested in.

We obviously saw the Las Vegas Raiders make a strong push. Tom Brady doing all that work. You know, and I think they're saying now that, oh, we weren't really that in. They were in. They were doing everything to convince Ben Johnson that, yes, we don't have the answer at the quarterback position. But this is going to be about building this thing from the floor up, and we're going to do it the Brady way.

and you can do it with us, lead us, guide us, and I guess also listen to the minority owner in Tom Brady. And then in the end, he made that decision to go to Chicago, despite that very appealing case that Tom Brady made. But I think overall, the job, the most coveted job was the Patriots job. Why do you think that is? Drake May. the amount of money they have

and a stable owner. I think you hit all the marks there. Because when you start to take a look at all the different teams, you see the problems. I actually don't think New Orleans is a bad job. You have a pretty hands-off GM. Mickey Loomis isn't, he's not breathing down your neck. He's got a really good way about him.

They've got a great personnel guy there that covers all. NFL, then you got your college guy. They have a really good structure. I think in the end they're going to wind up hiring Kellynne Moore. It's not done at all, not even close, but it just appears to be heading in that direction, knowing that other candidates were told that they're out. So we'll see what happens after the Super Bowl because technically they can't hire them to happen. What do you make of some of these guys who, listen, I know Joe Brady was there for like two years,

like the beginning of his career. But he has been in the building. And so he at least has some connection point to the Saints organization. Aaron Glenn was there for longer. He has even a bigger connection to the Saints organization. Both of those guys didn't seem overly enthused about even interviewing for that job. Why do you think that is? Like even if in a vacuum, the Saints job is not a bad job.

Is there something about it specifically that you feel like has turned off some of these potential candidates? Yeah, I think it has less to do with New Orleans and more to do with where they look, where the other coaches landed. I don't think it's, oh, avoid the Saints because this, that, look, they know they're in salary cap hell and you could, we could argue another time about whether or not that's a real thing or not. But they know as an organization, they're not winning next year. They have a lot of cleanup to do.

So I think it's going to come down to whether or not a coach wants to come in there and just bite it for a year and know that it's not going to be great until they can fix this. The comparison that I've made for a while is when I look at what's happened over the last, what happened over the first year or so in Chicago and Atlanta when Ryan Poles and Terry Fottano got to those places. Both of those spots, the previous regime had spent to the Gills to try to win. It did not happen and there was some untangling that needed to happen. The Saints, the Falcons, when Fottano took over like a top eight team in terms of overall

roster age, the same way the Saints are now. And if you're, there's an understanding going in, we're going to tarry. it down for a year in order to get back to a good place and you have that understanding with ownership and that's the timeline, I think that's acceptable. I'm just curious whether or not that's the dialogue in New Orleans, whether or not the head coach is going to have that leash early on for them to untangle some of those financial decisions. I don't know the answer to that. It is.

They do. And that's been part of the conversations that they've been having with these coaches that want this job, which is we're going to practice patience here, knowing that we've put you, if you were to get this job in this position. This is not your fault. So they have been communicating that to the candidates. Interesting. That's notable, I think. Yeah, I think so too. And, you know, Mike McCarthy never even had a conversation with them. This was not something where he met with them and it went sour or they had a disagreement. It just, if you remember, there were some weather issues. There was like a snowstorm here in New Orleans. And so a lot of

the different candidates had their flights moved and changed. And McCarthy got pushed to the following the week. And I think both sides just decided, yeah, this may not be the direction we want to go in. And we'll see if Mike McCarthy can get back in the cycle for next year. What do you think the Saints see in Kellanmore? As you understand it, what is the selling point of Kellynmore for that job? Because again, even if we shouldn't make too much of guys pulling out of the race, and it feels like he was a little bit further down their priority list than some of these other candidates might have been. So I don't want to frame it as like they're settling for Kellyn Moore if they're very excited about it. I just want to know where that excitement is rooted.

Well, he's one of those coordinators where when we talk about him getting a head coaching job here and saying, oh, this is going to be his first time as a head coach. I almost go, oh, wait, this is his first time. Because I just feel like his name has been out there. He's had so much experience, obviously, his time in Dallas with the Chargers and now with the Philadelphia Eagles. And I think he's proven over those years that he has an ability to get the most out of the United States. an offense. It's not perfect at times, but he's coached a variety of different quarterbacks that we've seen. And when you go back and look at how he's changed them and improve them, you have to give him credit. I don't think he's some hot shot Sean McVeigh.

I don't think Kellan Moore walks into a room and is changing lives and, you know, cracking kneecaps like Dan Campbell. That's not his vibe. If anyone's been around him, it is not. It's pretty laid back and chill. But I think that there is a confidence. to him that I've heard about even when I've spoken to guys in Philly that he coaches, that he's just kind of a smooth guy that doesn't overstate or over-glorify that role. He kind of just makes it about what's on the field and the players. And I do think that works to his advantage. And he's really bright.

He's a really smart guy. And I think for an owner like Gail Benson and making, and Mickey Loomis, the GM running the search, maybe there's something Kellen Moore that reminds them of a young Sean Payton. But do you think that's true? Because I think that part of the reason that when I think about Sean Payton in New Orleans,

like there's nothing meek about Sean Peyton in terms of like if there's a power vacuum to be had and there is like control to be gained, I think that Sean Payton is probably going to take it because that's how he seems to be wired as a person. And I think ultimately that was probably good for the Saints. Correct. Because of how hands off their GM is and because of the role that Sean got to play on that organization, I don't know them intimately, but I don't think Kellan Moore is necessarily wired the same way as Sean Peyton is.

You mean, Sean Payton, the same man who made sure that the fireworks that went off in the Superdome were a certain color. Yeah, that type of control. That's kind of what I'm getting at, yes. He's obsessive about the smallest of things, but it's all part of his maniac way of doing things that help him be successful. So you're right. Like Kellyn Moore from what I hear is not like that at all. But maybe there was something about that all powerful way that didn't work for the Saints in the end there.

I do think that's actually why it all fell apart in the end. Sean Payton can wear on you. So I don't necessarily think they're looking for that side to it. They might be going the other direction. That would actually be a really good way to understand it. Where it's like we did the Sean Payton thing. We went to Denis-Salem because we want to. wanted to continue committing to the model that we had built, right?

We were successful. Why would we go away from this? Continuity was important. Now it feels like this is their first chance to pivot away from it. And they might be pivoting pretty far away from it. Yeah. So maybe in the end, the only thing they have in common is that they were offensive coordinators, right?

Right? This is not, they're not exact twins. So, yeah, this will be interesting to see if this goes, if this crosses the finish line. They're not doing this, but I was thinking, what if the Super Bowl ends and they, just decide, you know what, maybe it's Steve Spagnola's turn. Maybe he's the one we should bring in here. It's not going to happen, but I was, I don't know why they wouldn't do that. We might as well ask you this now.

What do you, what do you make of the fact that he has not gotten an opportunity? And then the other thing is, and you may not have asked people about this and I might be putting you in a bad spot, the fact that people aren't getting hired off of that defensive staff. We got a question asked in a mailbag last week from a listener just being like, why aren't people trying to get some of the heat coming off that Chief's defense over the last couple years. And part of me was like, well, there's a chance that it just lives in Spags's his mind and you don't feel like you can really grab any of it. What do you make of the fact that

we haven't really seen much brain drain from the Chief's defense at all over the last few seasons? There is a very lazy mindset in the league that everything happens in Kansas City because of 15. Everything. It's because they've got... Tell the offensive coaches that play against Spagnolo in the playoffs. Correct. And he is that one defensive coordinator, when you talk to offensive coordinators about just a headache he gives you. And we see it every week. Obviously, we saw it against Buffalo.

Even though everybody knows what he's doing. Yes, he disguises it. I get it, but he's still able to catch the Buffalo Bills, you know, off guard, so to speak, when I think a lot of people saw it and said, here comes to Blitz. Like, this is what he's going to do. But with that in mind, you know, I don't have an answer as to why Spags doesn't get true. head coaching opportunity. He gets the interviews, which is great. I do think on top of falling into the trap of, well, it's Patrick Mahomes, and this is why they have so much success,

I do think a lot of people that come from successful organizations, and this isn't specific to Spags, but I've heard this before from owners, actually, GMs, potential GMs, potential head coaches will come in and they'll get asked, all right, so what do you see here? What do you want to do here and they always lean on what they are doing currently and it's not a very evolved way of thinking it's well let's just say for this example arthur smith um goes in interviews for the new york jets well i love what we do in pittsburgh because we do it like this isn't that's exactly how i want to do it here that's fine but that doesn't always work in every organization with the roster that you have so i wonder sometimes how these interviews go if if these owners aren't hearing something

specific that they want that's going to make Steve stand out above the rest that he needs, I wish someone would just tell him, like, hey, you need to go in this direction if you want to get a job because for now, it just doesn't seem like he's ever a top dog in this. As you look at just the coaching cycle overall and the carousel overall, is there a hiring that you feel like the league is particularly optimistic about? I mean, I'm saying it's so obvious because the league says it. It's just like Mike Vribal and New England. It just makes the most sense.

I do like the idea, though, that I think fans initially thought that, oh, this is kind of like a Bill Belichick Jr. And it's not at all. And you've been hearing a lot of the players talk about it that he coached. Zach Rosenblatt, our colleague, did a great feature on him on the athletic. And he basically spent the whole year with him in Cleveland to see what he was doing and how much he learned from Andrew Barry. and Kevin Siffansky and being around that organization that is very different

than anywhere he had been, whether it was with the Patriots or he was with the Steelers when he was drafted. And then obviously with the Tennessee Titans the Houston Texans. But I think in terms of fit for not just the Patriots,

but for what Rabel needs now in his career, coming from a place where he got the most out of Ryan Tennehill and that was an amazing run that they made with him to have this quarterback with the talent,

and he has and the potential, I think this is going to be the place that he's going to look back on. I think with all the options he had because he had plenty of, this was the right move. And then, you know, the Josh McDaniels hire, I love just reading all the feedback that people have on it. I don't get a sense. People like it, which blows my mind.

Why would you not want somebody to come in that's already had great success with a young quarterback to help grow him into what he became, which is the greatest to ever do it? I think it's probably a sense that this is just the same old thing again. Yeah. We're bringing the bad back together again and that didn't work. And I feel like that's the concern. And I wonder how many people in New England are looking at this and saying,

why would we expect different results than the end of the Belichick era if we're just going to bring back the same coaches to do this again? I don't know if that's fair, but I can understand why people, that's their initial reaction. Yeah, I think this is going to be a different experience. And I think it's hard to realize, but Brable and McDaniel and McDaniels never worked together. They've never been as one, so I'm sure there's going to be a learning curve there of how they do things. But the old way of the Patriots being a disciplined, smart football team is back. The last season of we're not really sure what we're doing is over. I do think that's the one thing you're going to get.

You're going to get answers, and you're going to get someone that's going to take all accountability at all times when you hire a guy like Mike Briebel who's been there. Is there a hire in this cycle that you feel like people are particularly skeptical of? Look, I think the Brian Schottenheimer hire had a lot of people talking at the Senior Bowl. Not so much that he can't do the job. It just felt like, you know when you can't get a date to prom so you just bring your buddy? Like, that's what it felt like Jerry did. yet he could have had probably a couple really hot chicks that he could have taken. This is like the prettiest girl at the school.

Like it seems like she should probably be able to go to prom with whoever she wants. That's what's curious to me. Like this is the Dallas Cowboys. Like is it really that unattractive of a destination where you couldn't get? I feel like even if you take into account the Jerry part of this and the fact that there are certain quirks to working in that building, I'm sure. it still feels like there's enough of a selling point if the cowboys want to make it attractive. That's my question about this.

And we mentioned this a little bit before we started recording, like in the notes we had, the fact that they didn't really want to spend on the head coach. Like, I've talked about this 100 times. It's insane to me. Like, why? Like, why do you go into the process being like, I don't really want to spend on one? It just feels like you're setting yourself up for a me solution that not many people are excited about. Because in his mind, he's won with a coach that he's.

he didn't have to pay a lot of money to at one point. So he references, he references that. He's going to go by his own experiences. And I think in his mind, which is wild, because we've seen in the last 30 years, head coaches absolutely change directions of organizations, whether it's, you know, Sean McVeigh is the first one that comes to my mind right now, like someone who came in here and turned it all around for a team.

Because of the coaching, yes, the players have to bring the skills and the ability to play the game. But when you get the right leadership in, you're setting yourself up for success. And in his mind, and this is not a shot at Brian Schottenheimer at all. Obviously, Dak Prescott likes him. They've worked together. I've heard they have a really good relationship.

All of the reasons that they've stated publicly make a ton of sense to me. What I just don't understand is why the search, why they didn't go out further just to see what's out there. They brought on Clayton Adams to be the offensive coordinator, which I actually, that's my favorite coordinator hire, just knowing that he's going to basically be handling all the protections as a former offensive line coach.

You know, we've seen this before in Green Bay, did this. Frank Smith is the other one. Those are the three like offensive line coach specific guys that have become coordinators for play calling head coaches. I like the way that goes. And in Smart. But for Brian Chattahammer to come in here to be a first-time head coach, to also be doing the play calling, I just think it's a really big ask. And I know Jerry thinks that he's sticking his neck out and he made it very clear that we may not understand why he did this, but he thinks that this is the right move for the Dallas Cowboys.

I just think sometimes people make decisions and we can all see it and they can't. Like I think we all see it. It's like, it's probably not going to work. Clint Adams is your favorite OC hire of the cycle, which I understand because it is, it's creative solution there. If you're the Cowboys trying to revamp your run game and that run game in Arizona was very well devised. What was kind of like the biggest conversation topic about the coordinator cycle in general when you were in Mobile? Raiders hiring Chip Kelly. There were some whispers about it that that could be happening.

But the fact that Chip is back doing this. and in a offense that I'm very unsure of right now. I have no idea what the Raiders are going to look like. We don't know if their quarterback is going to be. There's a bunch of questions here. I know two people right now. Brock Bowers and Max Crosby in terms of the pillars of that team of the most important pieces. We don't even know what the future of Max Crosby is going to be.

I have a hard time believing that they let him go. But obviously you're seeing a lot of chatter about Max's future. but I just find it interesting from putting myself in the mind of Tom Brady. Like what's Tom Brady thinking that he thinks that Chip Kelly is the answer for a Pete Carroll when this is a lot of retread to me. I actually am interested in it because I think that if you look at the last few guys who've, and it's not one-to-one comparisons, but I would say like what happened with Todd Manken, right, where Todd Mocken goes to college, he's

a lot of success in college comes in very good offensive coordinator for the rapids the one that I actually think it maybe has more parallels to this having cliff kingsbury go from somebody that you know Arizona is a small small operation right you don't have that many people who are pulling strings with the cardinals like the head coach and the GM have a lot of responsibilities in that building there aren't 10 layers of leadership in arizona there's a lot on him when he was the cardinals head coach he comes back to Washington just about ball place just about drawing up ball plays that's what I'm doing again And having Chip Kelly in a situation where he doesn't have to be the head coach, he doesn't have to worry about any of that stuff, he's literally just calling the offense and can do the things that Chip Kelly does well. I actually think that can work.

I think that's different than a retread in another way because it's a different role. And I think the specifics of that role, based on everything I know about Chip Kelly, actually lend to his strengths in a way that makes sense. No, I see your points. I, right now from my perspective, from the outside, looking at the Raiders, it just feels like you're playing. and a bunch of things that you're comfortable with, things that you like about these people while the Raiders are trying to figure who they are.

I think Darrell Bevel would have been that. If they had hired Darrell Bell would be the offensive coordinator. It's like, oh, we're just doing the same things that we've done before. I actually think that Chip Kelly shows like a level of ingenuity that I'm not necessarily surprised by, but that piques my interest about the

Tom Brady, Pete Carroll, John SpyTech Raiders in a way that I wasn't interested before. Who was your favorite, hire then? of the OCs? Yeah. I don't think there was anything that really stood out. Like as I look at the guys who have gotten these jobs, like Tanner Anxern getting the job with the Jets,

I think makes plenty of sense. I think that Grizzard, right? Yep. Grizzard getting the Bucks job. You want some continuity there. I think that makes total sense. The Texans one is the one I'm really interested in because I think that one is obviously very different

than any of the other O.C. jobs. With the Bucks, hiring from within and trying to maintain the continuity you have from that team is fine. The Jets, you don't have a quarterback. The Raiders, you don't have a quarterback. C.J. Stroud is in Houston, and they have some talent in Houston. And I think if they find the right guy to take that job, it'd be easy to talk myself into the Texans offense again. I'm just curious who that's going to be.

Do you have any sense of who they want that to be? Well, we know that they've interviewed Brian Johnson. He's with the commanders right now. He helps with the Pasky, who was the former Philadelphia Eagles offensive coordinator. I'm sure you've seen his name a lot, Grant Udinski. Yes. Out of the Minnesota Vikings. The most interesting man in the world, apparently.

So I'm so glad you said that because I started to hear his name for the first time. I'd say about a month ago, and our Vikes reporter, Alec Lewis, who spends so much time around the team, is like, oh, yeah, Grant, Grant's great. Like, he knew him. I guess he's very popular in Minnesota. But I was told that his strengths are his natural teaching ability, which doesn't that sound obvious for a coach? Apparently not. he has a really great way of teaching and explaining to players, which is huge. But he also happens to be a really important piece to the Viking staff.

He is essentially Kevin O'Connell's right-hand man. I mean, you see it during game day. The first time I didn't know who he was, and that I was watching a Vikings game probably, I don't know, week 15 or 16. And I'm like, who's that guy with a long hair that's talking to Kevin, like, every two minutes about what they're doing? I didn't know who it was. And I literally looked him up on their staff page. And then now he's gotten five offensive coordinator interviews in the last month.

I think it is five at this point. Yeah, his name is just going. Tampa met with him. The Texans met. Jacksonville, right? Seattle. Seattle. Yeah.

See, I thought he was going to get Seattle. But what tells me when you go on a lot of these interviews is the GM and head coach probably sat with you and maybe thought you weren't ready yet. Yeah. Right? And that could be the case here. Could this be maybe the risk that the Texans are willing to. take possibly. But the fact that they're taking some time here to go through this process after

firing Bobby Sloick, which I think was very surprising, not surprising based on what we saw from last season, but just how quickly the pendulum swung on him. How fast it swung is surprising. The fact that they landed where they did to me is not surprising because that defense is ready, right? And I think the offense, they've already invested in it. They've already made the moves they're going to make. And I think that they've done enough adding talent to that offense where the results need to be different. And if you're Damiko Ryan's, like, I can't let another season just pass us by and hope that this gets better. We need to make a more drastic decision than that. Going back to what we were talking about with the

Giants, sometimes that measured like, oh, you know, like it was pretty good in year one, even though this wasn't good. Maybe there's a better outcome around the corner. Maybe this can get better. Sometimes that's not the right way to approach it. And so I'm not surprised that they did. One of the reasons that I think that they can wait a little bit, all these jobs are filled for the most part. I mean, the only OC, I don't think Liam Cohen is hired an offensive coordinator. And the Texans are the only other one. I mean, those are the only jobs that are still left vacant. So you essentially have your pick if we think that one of these guys who's not a primary play caller is going to take the job in Jacksonville. Yeah. I also think that speaks to the process that the Texans are, too.

I like the move from Domeco, not that I want to see Bobby Sloick not have a job. He'll be fine. I think it'll work out for him. But I just think that takes a lot of guts from Domingo. It really does. And he's got such a grasp on that team. It's really impressive. He is the strong leader.

I think their GM, Nick Kiserio, has done a really good job of adapting to D'Amico, even. I think in the past we saw Kassero being a little two-hands-on at times. I heard some stories just about using his experience in New England and trying to apply to Houston, which I think sometimes is looked down upon. But I always understand that space because it's, well, this is what works. But I just think the fact that he knows that Domingo is special and allows him to make these calls and decisions that are the best for the team. I think that just shows the growth in the Houston, Texans, the team we were not talking about like this two years ago. No, and I think we talk about how these head coaches are drawn to these jobs as quarterback.

I think in the offensive coordinator cycle, there is no more attractive job than the Houston one because of Stroud. Well, let me ask you, if you were interviewing OCs, right? So let's say you're D'Amico, what do you, like, are you, holding in on protections? Like, what, what are you nailing this coach on that you think you, that this team needs? Protections is a huge part of it. And I think just like a diversity in the dropback game, right? Like, we're not necessarily leaning on the tried and true, like, play action kind of centerpiece of, what those Niners teams were. I think that in a lot of ways, we saw the Texans offense turn into kind of like a facsimile of those old Niners teams in ways that it was like a Xerox.

It just wasn't evolving. Yes. It felt like it was a little bit stagnant and it felt like you got some of the benefits and all of the drawbacks from like how that Niners offense can operate. And I think trying to step outside of that a little bit is probably in their best interest. We're going to take one more quick break. And then I want to talk about the veteran quarterback market just very quickly before we get out of here. So the last thing, I'm sure it was a topic of discussion down in Mobile,

which is just like what the veteran quarterback market would look like outside of where these rookies are going to end up. So the Brock pretty part of this and how this ends up shaking out with the Niners, where is that conversation right now as they think about what sort of contract he might get this offseason? Yeah, I think there are some concerns from some people that this isn't going to get done. and I don't know if that's because they're not sure what that number is going to be or if they think that there's a problem or perhaps maybe the 49ers want to float with Kirk Cousins. But from everything I know, both sides are very committed to getting this deal done. In fact, I think they're going to begin working on this very soon.

This isn't something they're going to be pushing off that we're going to be dealing with, you know, or discussing, you know, during training camp. I think this is something that they're both in line with let's get the ball rolling on this. and figure out where are we going to land on a number? Is Brock Purdy going to reset the market is the question? Is that the number his agent is going to ask for it? And is that going to be a number that the 49ers are going to be willing to pay? And I don't believe that that's the number at 62 million,

let's just say for this example, or 65 million, they're going to want to do. I think it's twofold. I think that number, and I think the years are probably a consideration too, right? Like, DEC walks into that negotiation with the Cowboys with the most leverage you can have if you are not one of the three best quarterbacks in the league. If you are not a Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes type quarterback, which Jack Prescott is not. I think he walked into that discussion with Dallas with the most leverage you could possibly have in that tier of quarterbacks. I don't think Brock Purdy is there. Like, even at a very simple level, if this doesn't work out and he plays out his lame duck year, they can franchise tag him if they want to.

There are just so many more levers as part of the Brock Purdy discussion than there were with Dallas and Dak. If I'm Purdy's people and I walk into this, I don't think I would accept a dollar or less than what Jordan Love and Trevor Lawrence got. But I think I mark up on that sort of deal and that tier of deal makes more sense to me than giving him $62 million a year. Now, my concern or question for how this is going to work out is how much are they going to be willing to sort of work together so they can keep this roster. so they can continue to pay, like we've seen quarterbacks do in the past, and give, it's not a team-friendly deal, but something that's fair for the 49ers to have some movement. I think it's about structure more than it is about, like, final numbers. And the Niners have always been very good about this.

I mean, they do tons of stuff where they're creative with the cap. But the example I can remember, quarterback-specific, you remember how that Jimmy G deal was structured where it was super front-loaded because they had no players on the team. And so they gave them a ton of money in year one. and as they started to add talent, he actually got cheaper over the life of that deal. That won't happen here, obviously. They have a very expensive roster. But I think the Niners have shown an ability to be creative with some of this stuff.

I don't know if they're going to do what the Eagles have done, where if you look at J1 Hertz's contract, he has like a $10 million cap hit in year four because of how they've structured this thing. Maybe they do want to do it that way. But I think this is a team that has shown an ability to work around this stuff in the past. I don't know how this will play into it, but you have to figure experience can be beneficial. and you bring up Jimmy J. Jimmy G had Don Yee as an agent, right? Tons of experience.

He has a bunch of big-name coaches as well. He's been around forever. Obviously, he was Tom Brady's agent. He reps Sean Payton. Brock has a younger agent, a newer agent, so to speak. He's been doing it a while, but he doesn't have a lot of big-name clients yet, and this would definitely be his biggest deal. So I wonder how that factors into it, right?

Because you have professional gains here for him as an agent to try, to get his client the most money he possibly can so he can continue to show other players around the late. Look what I can do for you. How do you think Drew Rosenhaus started? So I'm interested to see how the negotiations will go just knowing that that could be the advantage, depending on how you look at it for the San Francisco 49ers. Even if they don't want to reset the market, you feel like the Niners are comfortable paying him in that like 55 to $60 million range? Yeah, I think that's going to be the number that they wind up sitting at. I think the agent's going to try to get more, but I think they'll wind up settling in that area.

Sticking in the NFC West. By the way, let's make it clear, though. I don't think Brock Party is sitting there going, I'm demanding and I want to be the highest paid court. He's nothing. I think if Brock Party, if it was up to him, he'd probably make a little bit more than he is now, as long as he can drive his Toyota.

You know, I don't think this is the type of player that's in this, you know, to be the richest man in football. I think he just wants to be paid what he's worth and continue to try to improve and get them in the Super Bowl. There's so many layers to this, right? I mean, I think that if you're looking at this and you think, all right, Brock Purdy, if I'm Brock Purdy's people, and again, I look at what Jordan Love and Trevor Lawrence got and the fact that Brock Purdy is taking this team to a Super Bowl, he has shown, I think, think about the body of work, period. He's been doing this a lot longer for the Niners than Jordan Love was for the Packers before he got that sort of deal. So I think his people going and being like, this is reasonable.

Like, give me a cost of living increase on what those guys got. I think that's a reasonable place to sit to sit. I also think that if you want to take the other approach to this, you can say, do the Niners need to pay Brock Purdy $57 million a year for their offense to work? I get that too. So I think that there are just, there's a few layers of complexity here to like what the right answer is. But I think in a vacuum going in and saying, Jordan Love and Trevor Lawrence got this.

I've already had some more success and more postseason success than any of those guys. Why don't I deserve this? I think that's a reasonable place to land if you're Brock Purdy's people. It's a fair starting conversation. I'm sure they're having it. Let's stick in the NFC West here. The Matthew Stafford thing, I think, is arguably the biggest domino of the entire offseason, potentially.

So he probably wants a new deal from the Rams. He was a squeaky wheel last year before in the middle of training camp, got a little bit of a bump. I think they're probably going to come back and have another conversation this off season. Where do you think that ultimately lands? Do you think the Rams are overly incentivized to bend to what Matthew Stafford wants, Or do you think that they are open to potentially like a soft reset this offseason? I think that the Rams, Shaw MacVeigh is always looking to the future.

I think it's a skill set, actually. I give them credit for that, a bit of a wandering eye of what else is out there. What can I do more with or less? But I also think that the Rams are now out of, we'll call it the trauma period. They have money to spend now this year. They've obviously figured out some of the kinks and the problems with defense and losing Aaron Donald. Not that big of an issue as we thought. They've got a group of young players.

Maybe they need to just find another weapon outside Puka. But in terms of the Rams, they're in it to win it for next year. You think so. Okay. And I think that makes sense. I think you could argue both two different ways. You could say, listen, Matthew Stafford, when healthy, is still a good quarterback. This is our best chance to win right now.

or you could say because he still has something left, can we deal him and move on and have some sort of other solution that splits the difference where we're still competitive next year, but we're also keeping an eye on the future. I could understand landing in either place. We rev it into the red one more time or we think it might be time to move on because this is our best off-rap. Well, let me tell you, people around the league are keeping their eye on it, knowing that last year that the contract negotiations got a little spicy. And so I think there's a world where I think teams know that Matthew Stafford could possibly be available, right?

No one's saying, ah, no, Sean will just work this out. Les will come up with a deal and make everybody happy. Look, there are some very desperate teams right now looking for a quarterback that would gobble up Matthew Stafford right now. Who's at the top of that list for you? If he were available, who do you think makes the most sense? The Raiders. Why wouldn't the Raiders do that? A timeline thing.

That's my only concern about that. To me the team... There has to be somebody that you have to drop in right now who could win you because the rest of the New York Jets. I still think that with the Jets and the Raiders. And that maybe this is just... This is like my own maybe blinded thinking how I look at this stuff. With the Jets and the Raiders, my mind is like, get younger, be patient. You don't have to solve everything right now.

The team that I keep coming back to because I think that they need to do something dramatic based on where they are right now, What if we just dropped Matthew Stafford onto the Steelers next year? Didn't we just do this? Didn't we just do the veteran quarterback? I think it's a very different thing. I think it's a very different thing. I think Matthew Stafford in 2025 is a very different capacity than Russell Wilson. With Justin Fields on the team, so make Justin be the backup and Matthew Stam.

But is that Arthur Smith's offense with Matthew Stafford? I wonder if you change what the offense feels like with Matthew Stafford. I just think that they have, if I'm looking at a team that otherwise is set up, to potentially win in 2025 and needs a quarterback as part of that equation. I think the Steelers make the most sense. You pay Matthew Stafford 40 million and you have an answer for a year with what the Pittsburgh Steelers have. By the way, I like it.

It doesn't feel very Steelers to me. Of course. And I think that's why I want them to do it. But look, let me say this. I didn't think last year felt very Steelers to me. I remember reporting the story about Russell Wilson visiting Pittsburgh and I thought the person that gave it to me was messing with me. I didn't even believe it.

So the fact that they were willing to, I mean, they were obviously desperate, right? They were willing to take a shot. And I wouldn't put it past Mike Tomlin to shake it up after them running out of steam this season. I wonder, because again, I think that some of these other teams that need a quarterback, like Cleveland, for example, right? Like Matthew Stafford on the Browns, I think from a football perspective is very interesting. the Browns can't pay Matthew Stafford. The Browns need a cheap option here. So I think a lot of these teams that need quarterback, I'm not sure Matthew Stafford

and what he would cost is the best solution for them. Pittsburgh has a little bit of financial wiggle room. They could potentially do it. And I think that's the team I keep coming back to because I think them making these incremental steps and doing these things that, oh, Russell Wilson for a million dollars, that's a good investment for us to make. It's all very measured and reasonable. And I think that them doing something that's a little bit more aggressive

and rash, I would like to see them do that because I think they need to do something to shake it up. What about the New York Giants? So that's the other one. Is that the best salute where you're the Giants, you're in a position to draft a guy. If you trade for Matthew Stafford, you have to win right now, right? I guess you can make an argument that they have to win right now anyway. You're taking the risk anyway. Yeah.

But is the rest of it, I guess there are two different things here. And this gets back to our conversation about what are your incentives? you acting out of self-preservation or are you acting in the best interest of the organization? Is the rest of the Giants roster set up to win with Matthew Stafford right now? I would argue no. So from a football level, I don't know if that's the best move. But if you're trying to save your job and win nine games next year, I think you'd probably make an argument that Matthew Stafford is better than Camward. Correct.

And say, look, see? And who knows how far they could go? We could see a 20-21 season where Brian Dable gets them back into the playoffs and he's coached the year again with Matthew Stafford. Speaking of Coach of the Year, I think Kevin O'Connell is probably going to win Coach of the Year this year. Let's talk about his quarterback from last season because I think that's the other big thing that has to fall in the veteran quarterback market. What do we think ultimately happens with Sam Darnold over the next month and a half? This is a good one. It's a good one because you've got varied opinions around the league about what Minnesota will do.

And look, I always kind of go into these stories thinking, all right, well, what's the situation with the coach and GM in terms of their job status? Okay, so we know that Kevin O'Connell got a new deal. He said he's secure, not that he wasn't before the deal, right? Because he's had some tremendous seasons, but all signs point to the general manager getting a new deal. So they feel safe and secure. Ownership likes them, loves them. Let me even phrase that.

So I think there's a confidence and belief that Kevin O'Connell can get the most out of a quarterback, no matter who it is. Meaning, could it be Daniel Jones? I think there's belief that he could make that work with Daniel Jones if J.J. McCarthy, let's say for some reason, isn't ready to go or maybe even needs a little bit of time. I can tell you from last year before J.G. got hurt. They felt very good about him starting.

Like, that's how I was tracking that story. I was like, all right, JJ's going to, the rookie's going to start opening weekend. And then he unfortunately got hurt. So to me, the only thing that would make sense that would be on the table for the Vikings would be a tag and trade. that to me would be most beneficial for them in getting some return out of Sam Darnold. What's the downside of that? The market changes.

They don't have a trade partner. And then they want to pay the tag. The problem is I think they know, other teams know that they don't want to keep him at $40 million. And so do they call your bluff and are you really going to get that much in a trade because teams know you don't want to keep him? That's the challenge of all. of this, which is why they're going to probably let out a lot of different reports over the next few weeks about what they're doing and what they value Sam at, right? But I think it is fair and good business of the Vikings to bring Sam back in a range of 35 to 30 million. Sand market's

is going to be bigger than that, though, I believe. I think we're going to see a team bite for more than that. And that's where I think the Vikings are going to lose out. But there's also a world, and I don't know this, but maybe there's a world where Sam Darnold wants to stay in Minnesota. And I mean, he's, he got, Kevin O'Connor got the most out of we've seen Sam Donald's since he's become a professional football player. I think that the question is going to be there. Are they going to be willing to bring him back in terms of long-term security? Like, I don't think that they're going to give him a deal where he's making $50 million guaranteed like Baker Mayfield did. That deal is probably going to be out there somewhere else for him.

If you're Sam Darnold, do you want one more year in a good situation in Minnesota or do you want $50 million? I think he It's tough decision It sounds damn easy to me And everything that Sam's been through That makes me think Oh maybe I'll stay in Minnesota right He's been on all these different teams

And all these different experiences This is where he We saw a side to him that we've never seen before I've never seen sand like that This is going back to his days of New York As a young Jets quarterback Where it just never clicked And it just clicked

And I can't tell you how many coaches used to see me how good Sam Darnal was. And I would go on television when I was at ESPN and say this. And I would get blasted. And I finally felt redemption when he had this good season. I'm like, thank you, Sam. Finally, people know that I wasn't just saying that the people would always. But, man, he had the best workout at SC. Like, he was just.

He's undeniably talented. I think that there were still people who were believers. And I get wanting to go back to Minnesota because it's a good situation. situation. But I also think that walking away from like a life-changing amount of money with whoever that next team is going to be, that would be difficult. My question for you is, if it's not Minnesota, who do you think is motivated to make something like that happen? Well, it kind of goes back to what we were just talking about, the teams that are, that would be in for like a, let's just say like a Matthew Stafford, right? Like, why wouldn't the Steelers look at a Sam Darnel then?

I think the team that I mentioned before with the Raiders needing make a lot of sense. sense. I'm missing a team about. So the Raiders, to me, I think the difference between Stafford and Darnold is that Stafford is going to be 37 and Darnold is 27. So 27, 28, however old he is. If you're a team like the Raiders and you feel like you're ramping up a little bit, to me, Sam Darnold is a different sort of bet than Matthew Stafford is because the timeline

is different. Yeah, you bring him in as part of that growth. Yes. But what if the Rams trade? Matthew Stafford and bring Sam Donald in. We said that in our show last week. I think that's to me like my favorite, the galaxy-brained solution to all of this. You're telling me, Sean McVeigh couldn't do what you just thought Kevin O'Connell do?

It's kind of where I'm at. It's like if I'm the Rams to me, that's a way to like have my cake and eat it too, where I get some sort of draft capital from Stafford. I get something for him in return. I get a quarterback that we've seen have success in the right situation. I know I can give him the right situation and I get 10 years younger at the position. because they don't have an avenue to somebody else, right? They can't draft somebody. They're probably going to be too good to do that at any point soon.

Well, Sam's going to go get that life-changing money most likely if he's a smart man. Like we're going to do with the casino around the corner from this hotel. We're going to go make some life-changing money on that roulette table. I went to the ATM yesterday and just to have cash because there are a lot of cash-only bars here. I don't drink, but I still hang out in bars. So I just had needed cash on hand. And I was trying to figure out how much to take out. And the casino was on my mind when I made the decision of how much to take.

out. Terrible decision. Probably shouldn't have put this out there for some people don't rob us, but we have a little slush drawer for our babysitters, you know, just like cash to have. And we're loading the car up to leave for my flight today. And I ran back in the house and opened that drawer up and swiped a bunch of hundies. I'm like, Mama's going to make some money. I'm going to lose some money.

I'm going to lose some money and gain about 20 pounds. That's how this week is going to go for me. We're really returning from Super Bowl, just absolute studs, poor and fat. That's us. Again, the idea of coming here three days early and spending the weekend neurons with my wife, it was a good idea at the time. It's going to make the rest of the week a little challenging. It's aggressive. Aggressive is the exact right word.

Because you might as well become a resident here. I love it here. I love it here. I absolutely love it here. It's my favorite place in America. I'm happy when I'm here. And that was how I rationalized it. Aggressive is the exact right way to put it.

Wait, is it really your favorite place? I love it. I love it here. It's been fun watching my way. wife realize why. And I think for me, I've always said this. Even after I stopped drinking, I loved spending time here. And the food is a big reason.

I think it's an amazing food town. We ate so well this weekend. We went to Dakar last night, which is a Senegalese tasting menu that it was just excellent. We went to Brennan's for brunch this morning. We've eaten very, very well. But I just, the people. I just, I love the people here, the conversations you can have.

And just like, to me, this is the best person. To me, this is the best place in America to be a stranger on a bar stool. And just who you meet and just the interactions. There's just like a level of hospitality in the city that I've always really appreciated. And watching that click for her over the last few days because she's never been here before has been very rewarding. So that's been really cool. I've always wondered, because I know you're such a foodie, you're not fat. Like, how are you not fat?

I have. So well, the amount of, well, we've been walking like five miles a day the last three days. And the amount of cardio. I have already done since I've been here and plan on doing over the course of this week, that's also aggressive. It's part of an overall aggressive plan that I'm taking to this entire 10-day stretch. Yeah, I'm hoping to walk around a lot. And I do think that's what makes this city so special to host a Super Bowl.

Chase obviously lived here for years when he was with the Saints. We talked about how special it is to have everything so close. Yeah. It just gives this quaint feeling. Everyone's together. We're all here for the same reason. and trying to have a little bit of fun while we all work. It's a great Super Bowl city.

I've never been to a Super Bowl here. I started covering the Super Bowl right after the last one that was here. This is my first one, and I'm very much looking forward to it. I hope you guys are looking forward to Super Bowl Week. We are going to be coming to you every day live 5 p.m. Eastern, the athletic football live stream on the Athletics YouTube channel. Encourage you guys to check it out. It's going to me, Diana, Derek Klausen, Mike Sando is going to join us.

Our writers are going to be on. people were chatting with on Radio Row. So along with the normal podcast cadence that we're going to be having over the course of the week and live stream every single day we would love if you guys would come hang out and join us. Yeah, even just stop by just to see how different we're starting to look day after day after day and just by Friday if our skin is just hanging off our faces because that's the hope here. Yeah, that's exactly what's going to happen to me. Diana, great to chat with you.

folks, if you guys are not listening to Scoop City, which this show is going to be on that feed, please make sure you are checking it out. And please come back and check out all the stuff that we were doing from Radio Row all week.