The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Silver linings for 2025's bad teams

Episode Date: January 1, 2026

Look, not everyone can win the Super Bowl. Or make the playoffs. Or win at least five games. But even if you're a fan of one of those bad teams, there's probably something positive you can take forward with you into 2026. Robert Mays and Derrik Klassen find those silver linings for the worst teams in the league on this episode of The Athletic Football Show.Rundown (timestamps are approximate)3:34 Las Vegas Raiders9:18 New York Giants17:25 New York Jets30:00 Tennessee Titans36:00 Arizona Cardinals43:13 Cleveland Browns54:44 Washingon Commanders1:01:44 New Orleans SaintsConnect with The Athletic Football ShowYT: https://www.youtube.com/@TAFootballShowPodcasts: https://podfollow.com/the-athletic-football-show/viewX: https://x.com/TA_FootballShowIG: https://www.instagram.com/tafootballshowTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@tafootballshowDiscord: http://discord.gg/theathleticfootballshowCall us: 847-448-0701Email us: [e-mail]: Robert MaysCo-Host: Derrik KlassenExecutive Producer: Michael BellerVideo Producer: Katy DuffyAudio Producer: Michael BellerSocial Producer: Scott KrinchFollow Robert on Bluesky: @robertmays.bsky.socialFollow Derrik on Bluesky: @qbklass.bsky.socialFollow Robert on X: @robertmaysFollow Derrik on X: @QBKlassTheme song: HauntedWritten by Dylan Slocum, Trevor Dietrich, Ruben Duarte, Kyle McAulay, and Meredith VanWoert / Performed by Spanish Love SongsCourtesy of Pure Noise / By arrangement with Bank Robber Music, LLC Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. Today, it's the silver linings for the worst teams in the NFL this season. Yesterday, we talked about kind of the outlook and did a wrap up on the teams that fell short of the playoffs but are not necessarily at the top of the draft. This year, we're going to hit the other bucket of teams that we're going to stop talking about as we get into the postseason. So we talked about me and Derek, the top eight teams in this year's draft.

Just look at the draft order. those are the teams we dug into. Talked about what the silver lining for them from this year is and then dug into it a little bit what the next phase, including this off-season, should probably start with with a lot of these teams. So really enjoyed this discussion with Derek. Let's get to it right now.

On yesterday's show, we kind of put a period at the end of the sentence for all the teams that were hoping to be good that fell a little bit short and wrapped up what their seasons felt like. Today, we are hitting the other bucket of teams that is not going to be playing in the 2025-26 postseason, and that is the worst teams in the league. We're going to be hitting the top eight teams based on current draft position today

and just try to find something worth rooting your hopes and dreams in if you are a fan of this team. One, at least one, silver lining for all eight of these teams. We did this last year. I liked it as an exercise. I feel like it's worth doing again. just a little parting gift for fans of teams that had to watch what they did all season. I'm itching to get to the ones that are not quarterback related because obviously some of these, like the answer is a little bit easy.

You might have a guy at those positions. But the like five or six that are at other stuff, like I'm actually really excited to dig into some of these. There were two among these eight teams where there's technically an answer, but it's not anything about the current team that I had that I had. I landed on. Like, that's how bleak the situation is for both of those teams. And so there were two of the six where you really had to dig for an answer that you felt

good about, which we can get to. Let's just kick it off. One of those teams is the team currently slated to pick first in the draft. The Las Vegas Raiders, the silver lining for this team, for me, it was pretty simply, you are in a position to potentially take a quarterback with the number one overall pick. I think that's it. Like, I'm not sure there's anything else about this. this year's Raiders that you can get overly excited about.

No, the only thing would be like stuff that we said coming into the season already. Like, Brock Bowers and Ashton Genti are sick, but you still don't have an offensive line in front of them. I'm still not sure they have any other receiver talent. Like, Trey Tucker's fine, but also like, Tray Tucker would be cool if he was your speed three instead of like being your leading receiver at this point with Jacoby Myers out of the building. So it really is just that you might get to reload and reset at quarterback. And like, if they don't fix the offensive line, does it really look that much better than it did with Gino Smith this year?

Maybe not. But at least you're like resetting the timeline and giving yourself a little bit of a road to fix the offensive line and stuff like that. Yeah, I think part of the reason that I may have drifted away from the Gentie Bowers thing is that, like you said, we were saying that before the season. So it wasn't really a silver lining that crept up over the course of this year. It wasn't something we learned this year. If anything, the Brock Bowers and Ashton Gentie seasons were about as disappointing as they could be because of how much of a dollar. Um, umster fire the rest of the offense was.

Yeah, they, they kind of got like you wasted a year of Brock Bowers, uh, who got banged up at certain points this year, which I think it was also a little bit of a problem. If you're thinking about him long term, he'll probably be fine,

but it's just annoying that he gets banged up this year. And then Genty had just like the quietest rookie running back season for a top 10 guy in a really long time. Like it just, it was very frustrating that this is where they landed with what I still think are like two guys who are exceptionally talented. Like Brock Bowers to me, if,

if I need a titan tomorrow, I probably do want Brock Bowers. If I want a running back, there's probably maybe only a half dozen guys I'm getting to before I want a guy like Ashgen Genti. Like, they're really talented. It's just when the offensive line was the 30th in the league, it's just there was no coming back from that. Ash and Jensi, 888 yards right now. I was trying to think of the last guy who was picked in the top 10 that had just that disappointing or forgettable the season. Like Melvin Gordon wasn't very good as a rookie.

Like that that's a guy that you can pretty quickly go to the first run pick. Melvin Gord still had 1100 yards his rookie year. Right. And Ashen Gertes currently said at 890. My other one was like Todd Gurley because that Rams team was terrible in 2016. But like he's still, it still felt like you watched him and you were like, okay, I mean, this team is terrible. But like I just, this felt different even though it wasn't really his fault.

That one game stretch, that one game that Ashen Jensi had two weeks ago, Todd Gurley had like a stretch of those games at the end of the 2015 season. part of the reason that I remember that is because it's the last thing I wrote for Grantland was about how good Todd Gurley looked and it was early in the year. So Todd Gurley, it was early in the season. So from weeks two through five

of Todd Gurley's rookie year, he had 19 carriers for 146, 30 carriers for 159, 19 for 128 and two touchdowns, and then 20 for 133. So again, that one game Ashton Genty had last week, Todd Gurley had four of those in a row in the first five games of his rookie season. So it's been a while. Like, I mean, potentially since like Trent Richardson, a guy drafted at running back this high.

I guess Najee probably didn't have a very productive rookie year. But even Nagy wasn't drafted that high. Like he was a first round pick, but he wasn't drafted that high. And then even Richardson is different. Because like Richardson was just bad at individually. Like, Genti's not a bad player. Like he's awesome. And this is still what the result was.

Naji had 1,200 rushing artists rookie year. Again, it's the same as Melvin Gordon where they average less than four yards to carry, but the volume was so extreme that it ends up looking okay. That's where we are with the Raiders 20-25 seasons that we're trying to find things to be excited about it. Even those things aren't particularly exciting. So the fact that they're in a position to take a quarterback at one, I really think that's it.

Like you're in a spot where you can nuke most of this. And I assume the coaching staff will be different next year. I have to think that everyone in the building, ownership, does not want to do that, considering they just did it after having Antonio Pierce for a year. But we've talked a lot about this. I just don't know what sort of justification there is for bringing that staff back. Again, there's no silver lining to be had about the performance you saw from the people in charge of the football team this year.

Well, because, yeah, the thing is if this was a younger coaching staff and they had the year that they had, like, you could keep him around. But like the idea with bringing in a Pete Carroll was that he was going to get this team to like seven, eight wins pretty much immediately. and you could feel like you could fast-track competitiveness in 2026. And if that's not going to be the case, and you know there's no long-term with Pete Carroll, what's really the point of any of this?

I'm looking forward to a new coaching staff coming in and then deciding that Patrick Graham is probably the best defensive coordinator they'll be able to hire. And so he survives three different coaching staffs and stays the defensive coordinator. That will have had to have been like the only time that's ever happened if that happens. I mean, he's an interesting free agent coaching-wise this offseason if they do bring in a new staff and they don't retain him.

Because again, that's just hard to do multiple times in a row. But I maintain the idea that I think Patrick Graham is a very good defensive coordinator. Yes, because again, we're getting a little off track here. But like to go back to the yesterday's show, like if Dallas is looking for a guy, like, and Patrick Graham's on the board, like I would love that higher if that's for the air. He's going to be, if he goes somewhere else, he's going to make a team and a fan base pretty happy, I think, because he's done a remarkable job with very limited talent multiple years in a row, considering what they've handed him.

Let's keep moving down the draft board here. The New York Giants currently slated to pick second overall. What is your silver lining from the 2025 New York Giants season? I'm going to be honest. I think this was the hardest one for me. But it really was. And like I think, listen, I think Jackson Dart has shown enough that moving into next year, like there are reasons to be excited about him.

I just think when you calculate in some of the health stuff, like that does get a little bit scary for me and I know that other parts of the offense are talented as well and like Malik Neighbors is awesome Malik Neighbors is coming off of a very serious injury. So the hell stuff beyond Dart is why it gives you a little bit of pause about the excitement overall. Yeah, I get that.

It's so funny you say that. My first line of my notes is after there's some talent here, the Dart Neighbors Thomas collection on offense is something to get excited about. All three of those guys have been hurt at points this year. Andrew Thomas has hurt every single year. And Cam Scataboo. Like if people are excited about what he can be and he like shredded his entirety. And so it's like if you just look at the

names on paper, it would be easy to be like, okay, I can see how we can build around this. Maybe Dart takes a step in the pocket and that's how we get this thing moving. But like if he's going to consistently be out of the lineup, neighbors is maybe only 85% of what he can be. Who knows what Scatibu is going to be with how bad that injury was. And then Thomas is banged up all the time. It's like how you need a lot of dominoes to fall for this. really look as good as you want, I think. I think that's a good point. With neighbors, it's an ACL, you know, that stuff happens.

It's not necessarily indicative of what's going to happen moving forward. I know he had been dealing with a lingering kind of foot-toe thing for a while. So maybe there are multiple things to worry about with him. With Dart, this feels like one of those where we're constantly talking about and constantly worried about a young quarterback taking too many hits. And then the young quarterback just kind of learns what he asked to do in the NFL and that ceases to be a problem. but with Andrew Thomas, it has been a multi-year thing.

Like, I think that's worth considering and worth admitting when you're trying to project this team moving forward. Yeah, I agree. At least, I guess my only skepticism with Dart is he just keeps insisting that this is how he wants to play. I'm trying to think of a good example. I'm trying to think of a good example. You know that we've done this before.

We do this with young quarterbacks all the time. I mean, Josh Allen was like this. I don't know if he was as, like, adamant about, like, saying that he was going to play like that, but like Josh Allen took a lot of nasty hits, and he still kind of does, but he's better now. And one of the reasons that I wouldn't be as worried about a Jackson Dart as I would be about a Jaden Daniels is that Jackson Dart isn't built like Jaden Daniels, right?

Like these are concussions, which is a huge issue and it's something to take very seriously. But his frame is not the thing that is betraying him in some of these moments like it is with Jaden Daniels. And I think that's why it just leaves me with a little bit less cause for concern moving forward when it comes to like his play style and how much that's going to impact him. That is a good point. Like it's something that Dart can just learn to be better at where it's like Jaden Daniels, the reality is like he's just going to take some weird

tackles in the pocket sometimes and he just might get, yeah, he just might snap. That's what that I mean, the other guy that is built like him at quarterback that has had injury issues, but it's mostly not been about him running as like Lamar. But Lamar always avoided those hits early in his career. That was never an issue even though he was a little bit slighter. I get where you're coming from. I still think that the silver lining is there is like a nucleus of talent on this team. for whatever the next coaching staff is.

If you're looking at it on offense, Jackson Dart has shown enough where, okay, let's see what this looks like in year two when you get neighbors back, when you have a new coaching staff in there. He has more than cleared the bar, in my opinion, even if I think that there's still some development that obviously needs to happen.

Neighbors is an incredibly exciting player. You have a franchise left tackle. The offensive line is kind of in flux when you look at some of the guys hitting free agency. Van Roten's a free agent. Aluminor is a free agent. You assume Marcus Boe can kind of maybe step into one of those guard spots. So you have him, you have Thomas, John Runyon is still there.

They probably should be drafting a tackle pretty high at this point and seeking out another one as a long-term answer. But I still think there's enough there to be excited about for whoever the new coaching staff is. And then the defensive line, it wasn't what it was supposed to be this year, but with the right staff, that can still be a pretty scary group. I mean, you still are going to be walking in the next season with Brian Burns, Dexter Lawrence, Abdul-Carter. We'll see what happens with Tibido. That's one. where like, I think you should maybe think about what you can get for him in the final year of that deal.

Like that's going to be an interesting conversation. But even those three, that's a good foundation on defense. And I think you have a good foundation on offense for a team picking second overall. And that's just not always the case. We just discussed it with the team that they lost, that they beat on Sunday. Yeah, that's a good point. Like, again, if the dominoes fall right and these guys look healthy, like I do think there is a lot to work with here.

This just like, I think compared to a couple of the other options here just felt. slightly less stable to me because of some of that stuff. I think stable is a good word to use. For me, this is more about like wishcasting and excitement. And I think there's plenty. You can do that easily with this talent. The Giants for you to be able to get there.

The question now becomes, with this entire Giants off season, who is going to be overseeing some of this stuff? Because it sounds right now based on, you know, what Dan Tuggan, our reporter, our Giants writer, one of our Giants writers that the Athleticist said, other Giants beat writers, it sounds like they prefer to keep.

keep Joe Shane. And we've talked about this a lot. I think that's a tough sell based on how the last few years have gone with the Giants. There is some talent here. We just said that. But most of that talent was either here before he got here or the way that they were required doesn't impress me. You drafted Malik neighbors because he kind of fell into your lap in the top five. You drafted Abdul Carter because you were sitting in the top five. Even going on getting a guy like Brian Burns. Like, if I go out to the car dealership and I pay whatever the sticker price on the car says, I shouldn't be rewarded for now having the car. Like, just because it has value.

And that's exactly what the Brian Burns trade is. Like, you paid a hefty amount to go get Brian Burns. So almost none of the moves. And even the dart thing, he tried to distance himself from it in real time. Yeah, he said that that was the coaches thing, who the coach is now fired. and like they're probably going to keep that quarterback around. And so yeah, we talked about before, I think when they fired table, like I probably would have moved on from Shane. Basically, for the reason that you're saying, like, it feels to me a lot of like the Terry Fontno thing.

It's like, you can look at some of the talent, Drake London, Bejohn Robinson, all these players. And it's like, well, yeah, I could have made that pick at seventh overall or whatever it was. Like, that doesn't really do a whole lot for me. Here's what I would say if I was trying to paint an optimistic case for how this could work out. I've made the comparison between these two teams a bunch of different times this year. I think there are a lot of similarities between how the last few years of Giants football have gone and how the last three or four years before this year have gone for the Chicago Bears. And if you look at the polls history and the Shane history, there's not that much different about it.

I mean, the player acquisition part is very similar. Even at the defensive end, like it's the same trade. It's the exact same move. And so there are a lot of similarities. The Bears keep polls. They bring in the right coach. and it changes everything. Whether you can find the right coach in this cycle

that can give you like a Ben Johnson-esque transformation is a different sort of thing. We've seen this before, where general managers are retained between coaching staffs and those GMs get a little bit hotter with the second staff than they did with the first one and they can kind of turn things around.

I don't think there's a lot of reason to believe based on the track record that that is going to happen if Joe Shane stays in charge of this front office, but we do have examples where keeping the GM was not a death sentence for the future of the franchise if you find the right coaching staff. I just think you're probably setting yourself up with an unnecessary barrier to success if you do it this way. That's the thing. It just feels like you're having to jump through another hoop, which maybe it can work,

but it just feels needlessly complicated. Let's stay in New York with the New York Jets, picking third overall as things currently stand. This is the hardest one for me. Really? What's your answer? I think the offensive line has a good core. Okay. Yes.

Like I think the tackles are really, really good. I think the center, I think their center guard situation like with Josh Myers and Joe Tipman, I think has been settled. And so I know that John Simpson is going to be a free agent after this year. But like, I do think the offensive line is really good. And I think their run game does kick ass. It's just the passing game was so bad. And the defense,

especially down the stretch was so bad that we just didn't really get to feel the value of it. But I really do think this offensive line can kick some ass. And like, Membu is already good. But if he takes any sort of step, I think that that's going to go a long way. Like, I think Olufashanu probably still has some more development in him. He's a young player. Like I, Tipman obviously only moved to Guard this year. He had mostly been a center for them.

But I like a lot of what he's done at Guard. Like, they've got a lot of other pieces around this offensive line to fill in. And so it's maybe hard to get too excited. but I do think they have something really to stand on there. Yeah, you're probably right. If you're trying to focus on one areas of the roster, I think that's correct. Because, you know, Membu, we saw the flashes early on.

The offense, and this is the team in general, has just been such a disaster down the stretch. But that's probably a foundational thing you can build on. My answer to this was not about the current team. It's just that you now have a million picks over the next two years. Like, if you're trying to rebuild this thing, which they clearly are, you have a ton of resources to do it. They have four picks slated to be in the top.

top 50 this year, four. Wow. After getting the Colts first round pick and the Cowboys second round pick. And then next year, they have three picks in the first round. And so we're looking at eight picks probably in the top 50 in the next two years. And that on its own is exciting. It's a little bit less exciting considering we're like three or four years removed from the Jets doing this exact thing and it's solving nothing. But in a vacuum, it is good to have this.

amount of resources if you're an organization that feels completely rudderless. Right. Just because they did it and failed doesn't mean that it's like bad process. Like I think this is a good idea for them. And so I am excited. I think I think too, especially because like when I'm thinking about like what do you want in a rebuild, I think oftentimes fixing the offensive line like is problem number one. Like teams are usually terrible because they can't block anybody. The jets have the opposite problem where they can block just about anybody. It's literally every other part of the roster that is an issue, which I think especially when you're using some of those picks that are outside of like the top 10, top 15,

it's a little bit easier to find some of those non-offensive line talent guys. Whereas like if you're really trying to hunt for the trenches, you kind of need to hit on those top 10 picks. But like if they've got, you know, six of those picks from pick 20 to 50 in a lot of these drafts, if you're throwing all those at receivers and corners and some linebackers, like I think it could turn around fairly quickly. I think that's a good point. I mean, it was the conversation we were having about this team coming into the years that

That was the kind of echo of what the lions were early in their tenure, is that they had the offensive line and things kind of flowed down from there. Unfortunately for the Jets, none of the other elements of this came together. And I think the key difference to this, and this is the other part of this conversation that I wanted to have, when we got to the end of year one of Dan Campbell, remember how excited everyone was despite the fact that they couldn't win a football game? Because they looked so much better than they should.

They were playing a certain way, the vibes just emanating off of that year one Lions team were so good. Do you feel any of that with the 2025 Jets? Absolutely not. And like part of that is I do think having the quarterback quality that they had, like being significantly lower. I think like does lower your floor and when your flow is already so low. But even before we got to the Brady Cook part of this,

I wasn't feeling that way. But Justin Fields was always worse than like Jared Goff even coming off. Sure, sure, sure, sure. And so I think that there was that element of it. I'm more disappointed in the way. that the defense played. Like I really did think that the defense was going to have more attitude to it. I thought that they were just going to be a little bit more put together.

And it just seemed like none of what they wanted to do on that side of the ball ever really came together. Like the path rush did not get up the way that they wanted to. They were benching their best player, Quincy Williams at certain points in the season. They still don't have an interception this year, which if they don't in week 18 will be the first team that's ever done that, which is crazy when your coach is a cornerback, by the way. And so it's just like I think the defense is a lot more concerning to me.

The offense, I can pretty easily just look at like, yeah, you didn't have Garrett Wilson and your quarterbacks were bad. But the defense, I think, is a little bit more of a concern. Are you, like, quietly more optimistic about the Jets than the general consensus is right now? You sound like you might be. Maybe just because the offensive line and you have so many picks. Like, I think they're in a weird spot where it's like when you don't have the quarterback or head coach solved, like, I think you've got, there's a long way to go for you to bridge from like, epic excitement to actually being a good team. But offensive line usually really is the toughest thing to fix, man.

And when they have that on top of as many resources that they have, at least they are a team that I'm going to be very curious about how the next two seasons go. Like, I just think they're going to be a fun experiment. Two big decisions, I think, that are looming for the Jets this off season. Do you keep Aaron Glenn? My assumption is yes. Like, just based on the organizational history and not wanting, again, to shake it up after one season. I don't think it's been so bad that you have to move on. And that's essentially,

if you're firing a head coach after one year, the only time I'm ever in favor of that is when clearly there is just no coming back from this. I feel that way about the Pete Carroll situation now. I felt that way about Antonio Pierce last year. Probably felt that way about Gerard Mayo last year. I don't necessarily think the Jets are in that territory. I think it's one step up from there. And so I do think if you don't want to do another coaching change, you could probably justify it, even though I think it's, you're having to tell yourself a little bit of a story to get there. The other big question is, what do you do at quarterback? Because this is a class that does not have that many options at quarterback, and we just said it. You have three picks in the first round in 2027.

And so for most teams, this idea of, well, we'll just get the quarterback next year when the quarterback class is better. sometimes that works out and sometimes it doesn't. It feels like if you're the Jets specifically, you know you're going to have the ammo to potentially move around. Do you bypass this group and potentially look for your guy next year knowing that you don't need to find him this year?

Like this is going to be a multi-year rebuild when you have a lot of resources. Picking one to pick one isn't necessarily in your best interest because your timeline is so long. Similar to like what the Bears did that year where they bypassed the quarterbacks and waited for the following season. I almost think that like that,

depends on what you think of Aaron Glenn because I think if the idea is that we're going to draft a quarterback in 2027 and then strapping this offense in Aaron Glenn with another like stopgap type of quarterback or running it back or whatever like that at that point you're kind of just like lame ducking the season like to me

like that just doesn't feel like anybody's making any sort of progress here. It's a really good point and there's another team that I think it's a similar discussion about why or why you would or wouldn't seek out the quarterback this year specifically the Browns are the team that I think we can have that discussion about as well.

I think that's actually a good thought where it's like, okay, if you aren't going to pick a quarterback this year, who is your bridge quarterback? And do you want to put this coaching staff in a place where they're just treading water next year? But I don't know, if you're Darren Mugie, should you be thinking about the coaching staff as part of this? Like what you just did by trading away those guys to get all those picks, I just think changes your mindset and your calculus and your timeline so much that thinking,

well, we have to have an answer this year because of how bad the most recent season was, I think that potentially leads you to a decision that's a mistake that you don't need to be making. It's a complicated question because I think there's so many kind of like environmental and in the building considerations that you have to weigh when you're doing this. but I wouldn't lose sight of the fact that this is going to be like a two to three year process and the quarterback should fall in line with that mindset as well. I agree. I think the thing I would say is just I think I would be disappointed if this happens.

Like if Aaron Glenn got stuck with like another type of stopback. And I know that like he didn't necessarily do as what he was supposed to do on his side of the ball. But I think his track record over what he had done over the last like seven, eight years as an assistant and then as a play caller. Like I do think that giving him another year is worthwhile. and so I would just be if they kind of, I don't know, like ran it back with like they just signed like a Jacoby Brissette to hold down the fort or something like that. That would be pretty disappointing to me. I don't know if that's the wrong move though. I'm not saying it's wrong.

Even if it's disappointing. I don't know if it's the wrong move. I completely understand what you're saying. But I just in this case specifically, I kind of think you just have to keep your eye on the ball about what's important. And if you don't like any of those guys at three or you don't want to trade up in this year's draft, even if you do have more ammunition. It's going to be fascinating. because I think there are other teams that are going to be incentivized to try to get to that pick at number two if the Giants are sitting there and don't want a quarterback because they are also in a position

where they kind of need one to get things started, which we'll talk about here as we move through them. All right, we're going to take our first quick break here and then come back with a team that miraculously is currently slated to pick fourth in this draft right now. The Tennessee Titans, the silver lining for the 2025 Titans. I don't think this one's going to be hard to figure out. The quarterback is good, man. This is just like the quarterback or I mean, good is probably strong. He's, I think I'm pretty confident that he's going to be good.

Like I really will stand on it. Like I think he's going to be good. Obviously, he did a lot of bad stuff this year. But I, this is going to sound ridiculous because of what this quarterback has done this year. I feel like a similar level of confidence that this guy is going to be fine despite how bad his rookie year was statistically. some ways as like Drake May. Like Drake May's success rate was higher and I do think he was a little bit more put together. But when I see some of the high end stuff, I'm just like, I don't care how bad like some

of these games were in some of these moments where like his best stuff is you can't teach some of it, man. Like it's incredible. Like he, the velocity he gets, the arm angles he gets, he's a really good athlete. He's strong in the pocket. He's not afraid to go and make plays. Like I just, I think that he's going to be really good. even if there are doubts about the overall like consistency and quality beyond like whatever the excitement or the flashes are

that's not what this exercise is about like he has shown more than enough for him to be a silver lining for the titan season and the fact that they've had some of their best moments down the stretch here i think is something that you can easily get excited about and overall we've talked about this we talked about it after the nineers game like i think that the development the progress from the offensive line as a group as the season has gone along is also something that you can root some optimism in if you're a Titans fan. And that group for the most part is going to be coming back. Zai was obviously a free agent. He was on a one-year deal.

But Dan Moore, it was a really rough start to the season. And I think it's been a lot of ups and downs. But he should be a capable left tackle in a slightly better situation. Skoranski's really come on. Like he's somebody to get really excited about. Cushenberry is going to be a year further removed from. that Achilles next year, he's still under contract. And you hope just cross your fingers that Latham can stay a little bit healthier. And that group, even if they're never going to be what the

best version of it could have been before this season, I still think there's enough there where, like you said with the Jets, like if the offensive line, Talon is there, that can accelerate a quicker turnaround than people might think. And then you have the quarterback. We'll see what happens with the past catchers. This team has $106 million in cap space going into next year. If Alec Piers hits free agency. This is by far my favorite spot for him to land. Like, by far.

I love that. I'm absolutely adore that fit. Like, all of the things that Alec Pierce is good at are exactly the type of shit that Cam Ward needs at his number one receiver spot. Big guy, go catch the ball. Like, that's what we need. You go get a guy, I mean, we'll see. He may not even hit free agency.

If he doesn't, by the way, if he doesn't end up hitting free agency, we're in a spot, and we'll talk about it with a couple of these teams. We did it yesterday. Which team we were talking about the defensive free agents, the Bengals, where I listed off the names for you that, like, to me, like the most exciting names for the Bengals and free agency, and like none of them are actually exciting. That is true for all of these bad teams that are going to have a lot of cap space as well. And if the fact that Alec Pierce, which I think has made incredible strides this year,

like is one of the most improved players in the NFL, in my opinion, from last year to this year. It looks so, so good. So I'm not trying to diminish Alec Pierce. But the idea that Alec Pierce is the prize of free agency. And if he doesn't hit the market, we're looking at a disastrous sort of free agent class tells you all you need to know about the overall quality of this group of free agents. Which like, I feel like we almost in a way said that last year about like Milton Williams, where it was like he's the third guy on the Eagles line. And if he doesn't really hit free agency, there's going to be a problem. And the fact that he's the bell of the ball is kind of funny. I like Pierce is kind of like in that range of player.

And so yeah, again, if he gets ripped off the market, I don't know, man. Looking at the other side of the ball, this team is going to have is picking the top five. They don't need to draft a quarterback. There are a couple edges based on how I understand this draft that are going to be available. That is the position that you just, I think you just pull the trigger. Like this team needs edge help so desperately bad. And so if they can find a difference making edge player in the top five, if they can go get a receiver in free agency, if the offensive line, line can be a little bit better and a little bit healthier, removed from some of those injuries,

and then also just with a different offensive ecosystem next year. I don't know. I can get there. I can get there where I'm like looking forward to what the 2026 Titans could look like. Which is funny because I really had some like kind of, you know, tepid excitement about the Titans coming into this year and it mostly like fell apart. But like I'm sometimes I'm willing to do it again. Sometimes I'm willing to do it again.

I think it's mostly when you know you have a foundation of talent. and you, this is all going to be dependent on what the offensive coaching staff looks like next year. That's what it's all going to be. Like when we're looking at these teams who have these remarkable turnarounds for season to season, that's typically what we're looking at. Think about all the teams that are just significantly better this year than they were last year that have taken these massive leaps from like last place to first place. The bears have Ben Johnson.

The Jaguars have Liam Graham Cohen. The Patriots have potentially the MVP a quarterback, but getting the play call right in New England. has been a huge part of their success. And so finding the right offensive ecosystem is the way that you can kind of pour a little bit of gasoline on whatever small little flicker currently exist with the pool of talent on the Titans' offense. So I don't think it's crazy to think that with the right atmosphere, we can get a version of the Titans next year that is a lot better than the version of the Titans we saw this year.

Let's keep moving down here. The Arizona Cardinals currently slated to pick fifth in this draft. What is your silver lining about the 2025 Cardinals? This one was also pretty difficult. It's hard. For me, the, you know, the Jets one, like I said, was a little bit of health. I think this one was a little bit harder for me to find because even like the Jets roster is bad, but at least like the offensive line I look at it and I'm certain that it's good.

The Cardinals for me I came down to like I think the secondary, you have at least some stuff to be excited about. Like I think Will Johnson has played really well for a rookie. Denzel Burke as a fifth-arm rookie, I think has played better than you would expect for a guy of that caliber. Garrett Williams, when he's healthy, is good. And Buda Baker is one of the best safeties in the league when he's got some stuff. And so I know they could lose Jalen Thompson in free agency this off season.

But I do think the secondary is good and would look a lot better if they weren't consistently failed by the front that is pass rushing in front of them. I think you could make a similar argument for the past catchers on offense. Like I think there's like a decent amount of pass-catching talent on this team. team. I think that's dependent on what happens with Marvin Harrison Jr. I don't know what to think of that at this point. I think writing him off after these two years when he's been a little bit banged up this year and you've seen some flashes from him this season would be wrong. But even if we get a version of Marvin Harrison Jr. who's like a B plus version of the one that we thought he could be, Michael Wilson has looked excellent down the stretch, like truly excellent. And you already have Tray McBride. And so the fact that the those three guys are going to be in your past catching room next year. That is a much better situation than we typically get with some of these rebuilding teams or teams picking in the top five of the draft.

So I do think there's enough there for a little bit of hope and optimism. You have a left tackle that you feel good about, even though he's hurt to end this season the same way he was hurt a little bit last year. But I think Paris Johnson is still like a building block piece. This team specifically, I think needs like a full scale reset to the offensive line over the course of this offseason. like they need to finally say, all right, this is the year. And we'll see.

We'll see who's making this decision, whether it's Moni Austin Ford or some other person in charge of the personnel department. But I think this is the team that I keep bringing up the bears, but it just it's at front of mind for me, that needs the sort of we need two to three new starters among this group, the same way that a team like Chicago did this offseason. And so you're picking in the top five. I think there are a couple different directions you could go. Are you the team that trades up for a quarterback, which we can talk. about here in a second, or do you try to grab like an offensive tackle early in this draft and then use some of the free agent money, which you're going to have a decent amount of financial

flexibility, especially if you boom on from Kyler, to try to bring in one or two pieces if you want to. So these are guys that, again, they're third contract players. They're not exactly the types of guys you want to sign at free agency, but we know that the tail, in terms of the age curve and offensive line is typically a little bit better than other positions. A David Edwards, a Braden Smith, a Connor McGovern, just playable, workable pieces up front to go along with one draft pick in your young left tackle with the past catching pieces you have. If you can bring in like a capable quarterback and you have an offensive coaching staff that you feel good about, if that, if this group gets fired, I can get there.

Like, I can get there. They've got to fix the offensive. That's really what it is to me. Because I think we both kind of talked about it coming in, like them taking the approach this year where it was like, we're just going to hope that a couple of our young guys take a step and that some of our like replacement level pieces are fine, even without Clayton Adams being a part of the run game. It's like they're going to make that bet. It made sense in the moment, even if we could see what the downside was. Well, you've seen the downside now. So you've got to go make some

replacements. And like they're probably not going to be able to do it with the quality of guys that like the Bears did or even maybe to the extent like the guys that the Vikings did where they go out and get guys like Ryan Kelly and Will Fries and then spend another first round pick on a, a left guard and stuff like that. Like even that might be a little bit difficult to do. But that most of their interior probably has to go. I think, you know,

you could maybe even make a change at right tackle if they wanted to. Like I would say, you have to. Jonah Williams is a free agent and Kelvin Beecham is playing over there right now. Yeah, I didn't remember whether Jonah Williams was a free agent or not. It was a two year deal, I think.

Mm, that makes sense. So yeah, like everybody but Parrish Johnson, I think you could make a case that like they could be up for it. And so I would say you got to replace at least two of those guys. But if they're the right guys, It's like I could get around to that.

And the quarterback thing is tricky because on one hand, if they want a young one, they are going to have to trade up, right? But they're going to get something back for Kyler, you would imagine. And so if that can kind of come out in the wash a little bit, maybe it doesn't really feel so bad to trade up for a quarterback. I don't think it ever feels bad to trade it for a quarterback within reason. If you're going from five to two, if that guy's good, you'll never think about that again. It gives a shit.

And I think this is the team, again, depending on what happens with the offensive line, where, and I know that's a huge question mark, but we don't typically have teams with this level of pass catching talent for a young quarterback to come in with. And this is all going to be dependent on, again, what the offensive ecosystem is for whoever the staff is.

But if you can kind of try to remake the offensive line this offseason with those past catchers and have a young quarterback, I think that there's something here. Like, I do think that this has a chance to be a more hospitable environment for a rookie quarterback than it might seem if they're in a,

position to get one of those guys. I really do think them very quickly, them versus the Jets and how this, like how they manage this is going to be interesting because they're inverse of each other. Like the Cardinals have all of the non-offensive line pieces. They do not have the offensive line whatsoever. The Jets have all of the offensive line pieces, nothing outside of a injured Garrett-Wilson basically coming out. Mason Taylor's okay, but like it's just a different situation.

It's an interesting question because I actually think this speaks to one area where we talked about the free agent class. Free agent classes are getting worse, and the cap is exploding. And so you're going to have a lot of these teams with a bunch of free agent money to throw around, but there aren't going to be a lot of players worth spending on in free agency.

The offensive line, there are two different considerations. You can trade for guys, which we've seen teams do over the last couple years. But even with the diminished quality of the classes overall, I still think it's going to be easier to find offensive linemen than it is going to be to find receivers. Like the receiver of free agent classes every single year, just getting worse and worse and worse. And because you don't want to be signing, I think McGovern, David Andrews, Bray and Smith, all those guys,

they're going to be like 28, 29 years old. You don't want to be signing 28 or 29 year old receivers in free agency. Right. You can be signing 28 or 29 year old offensive linemen in free agency and potentially get some bang for your buck there. So the fact that both of these teams are going to have a lot of money to throw around, but one needs pass catchers and one needs. offensive linemen. I actually think you're in a better situation if you need the offensive linemen if you have a little bit of financial wiggle room. That is a good point in terms of

like quickly patchworking it together this year. Like I actually think that that's a good, I think that's a good thought actually. Next one here, the Cleveland Browns. What is your silver lining for the 2025 Cleveland Browns? I kind of have two. I feel weirdly more optimistic about this team than I probably should, but their rookie class is the first one. They're rookie class is awesome, dude. Harold Fanon is as good as you could hope for a young tight end, for a rookie tight end. Quinshot Junkins has been really good for them. Carson Swessinger, like still might be my defensive rookie of the year.

And then even guys, like, I think Mason Graham has been a little bit disappointing for what you wanted him to be for a top five pick. Still a solid player. Dylan Samson has been like a decent rotational back for them. Like they hit about as well as you could with this draft class. And then the second thing that I would say that I think is a little bit of a silver lining. I don't know if they're going to keep Kevin Sophansky and this coaching group, but this team was still playing hard and doing really interesting stuff offensively down the stretch.

And I think that the defense has still been called pretty well. And so this to be like still is a good staff. I would totally understand if they want to move on. But the fact that the staff still had life to me at the end of the year, like that is a little bit of a silver lining. The rookie class is the first place you have to start. And that's really what they were rooting a lot of their hopes in coming into the season. It's like if our rookie class hits, this is going to be a success in some way, no matter what happens in the win-loss column.

And that's exactly what has happened. This is a team that had no picks over the last three years because of what happened with the Watson trade. And so the fact that there's a real chance, you found like four to five guys who are going to be multi-year starters for you out of this class all the way into the third round. that's what they needed and that's what they got. Mason Graham might not be a superstar, but he is a solid player. He's going to be there for a while. Sweenser looks great. Juddkin, the injury with Judkins is a bummer.

A lot of these teams, even the Cardinals, like I was going to mention some of the defensive pieces for the Cardinals, the fact that Garrett Williams and Walter Nolan are now in a place where their status is for 2026 are in question because of those injuries. That's just a brutal thing to face. Now Judkins has an awful lower body injury to end the season. He's going to be working through that. But even keeping that in mind, I still think that what you've gotten from this rookie group,

there's a lot to like with that. And that's what this season was about for the Browns. And now you're in a spot where you have two more first round picks. And you've got 10 picks overall, including eight in the first five rounds. Like that's just not what this team has been working with in the past. And so you now have even more opportunities to try to restock the cupboard with a young talent after really not having any of that over the last couple of years. the problem is the rest of the roster outside of that rookie class is like a complete mystery at this point.

Yeah, like the offensive line, we said coming into the year that like all of their offensive linemen are old and also up for free agency. Don't feel good about that situation there. And then even the past catching stuff like Judy's fine and Tillman is fine, but those guys need to be bumped down like two spots on the past catching totem pole probably. they are just so many areas that they need to address. The defense, I think there is a foundation there with U.S. Lusinger in the middle. If they weren't being grieved by the offense consistently, like I think the defense would be like a top seven, eight unit.

It's not better. It's still really good. It still kind of is, yeah. And even something like the Tyson-Campbell trade, like the quiet part of the Campbell-Nusom trade is that Newsom is that Newsom is going to be a free agent and Campbell had gotten that extension already. So you've got Campbell under contract for multiple years. You still have Denzel Ward, obviously.

Delpit, I think, has had a really nice season for them on the back end. You have Swessinger in the middle. The defensive line is essentially all intact, and because they gave Alex Wright that extension now. And so now you have Miles, Mason Graham, Alex Wright, Isaiah McGuire, I think is still has a couple of years left on his rookie contract, at least one. And then Malik Collins, he signed a two-year deal this offseason. So he's going to be back next year, too.

And so the defense is still going to be pretty darn set up next year. The problem is, and this is, I think the exact point that a lot of people made with the not trading Miles Garrett when you did, how long is the defense going to be this? And is it going to be this long enough for the offense to potentially catch up to it? And I think now you're getting to a point where that might be difficult. Like, it's probably going to take until 2027 for you to realistically have added enough talent on offense to be competitive. and by then what is the defense going to look like? And so it just seems like the different timelines for both sides of the ball are what ultimately could sabotage what is a very talented defense in Cleveland.

That does feel tricky. I think especially for like the back end, right? Because I think like back end, like once guys get up to like 27, 28, you kind of just never know when it's going to go. Whereas at least with the front, it's like Mason Graham's young. Garrett feels like he has the play style that could play until he's like 38 and he'll still be extremely productive. Alex Wright is the young player. Carson Swessinger is like, I think it would be an incredible linebacker in this league for a long time. So at least like the front seven has like

some youth and sustainability to it with the back end, who knows? Especially if Jim Schwartz stays as the DC right, where it's like, we're playing man coverage, buddy. You better be able to run. And so if suddenly those guys can't. Yeah, exactly. Yes. If suddenly those guys can't run, they're going to have a little bit of an issue. I have no idea what happens with the offense this off season. You need a new offensive line. All of it. A new one. You need a whole new one. In theory, you could bring some of those guys back. Like, I'm sure they'll have a conversation with Betonio and, you know, all of those other guys that are hitting free agency. But you just, you desperately need to add some pieces to that group,

even if you're bringing a couple of those guys back. And so do you do that early in the draft? And if you do that early in the draft, what do you do at quarterback? Because like this, Jets, I think with the Jets, it's very easy if you're a Mugie to just say, we're punting on it this year. I understand that's going to be difficult for the coaching staff, but we have a plan here. We're punting on it again. If you're the Browns, are you going to put Stefansky in that position again after he's been there for so long where you're just going to make this group ride it out with Shadour for next year? I do think, similar to the Jets situation, that might not be the worst move if you're trying to like optimize the team building process over the next two years.

But do you feel good about that? If they bring this staff back and it's just like, yeah, we're just going to ride it again with Shadur into next year. I think that's kind of a tough sell. I think that's a really tough sell for me. Like I just, I would get it in terms of like trying to keep the like how this thing is going to function and not over leveraging ourselves for making a new move. But like I just don't know if we saw enough from Shadur.

Sanders to be like that's the young quarterback like we should give another season to and then without any other additional competition right without competition if they want to have it him and you know malik willis or they can trade like nothing for one of these other veterans that's totally fine i just think that you can't move into next year with only him as as your option i think that that would be a little bit tough for kevin savansky i'm really interested in how much urgency they have this offseason specifically to find the quarterback or to take like a real dice roll of quarterback not Dylan Gabriel with a 97th pick. At the very least, like, do you do something where you roll the dice on like a Tyler

Shuck type in the second round if a guy like that exists this year? I think there's probably part of them, and Judkins is going to be a good player, I think there's probably part of them that has some regrets about not taking more of a real dice roll on Shuck earlier in the process. Because if they had done that, it changes a lot of the discussion. And because actually what I was also about to say, Tyler Shuck kind of fits what they want to be. as an offense, like what Kevin Sopensky has been good at.

Like, you could run what the Jacoby-Berset offense was a few years ago with a guy like Tyler Shuck, whereas if I look at, he's just super Jacobi Berset. Yes, literally. Yeah. And like, honestly, if I look at some of the quarterbacks that the other veterans that might be on the market, Kyler Murray is not that guy. Clearly, like the reason they, the Cardinals play Jacoby-Berset is because he's different from Kyler Murray.

I don't think Tua-Tunga-Loa really fits into that category. I don't even really like, Mac Jones, kind of, but you're not going to get a lot of the downfield stuff that I think Stefansky does ideally want to do even with a guy like Mac Jones. Like a lot of your other vet options don't really fit into what is in my mind like the ideal Kevin Stefansky offense. And so maybe if they think there is a quarterback in the second round that like does fit a little bit more into that mold, that could be nice for them. I do think some of the stuff Malikulis has been doing in Green Bay does actually fit what they

like though. I don't disagree with that. I just wonder if you're this team specifically, are you in a spot where you just want to be reshuffling the deck chairs at that position again or you do you want something that feels a little bit more substantial than that and if you do make a decision like that are you're only doing it to make yourself feel better is is it the actual right decision like i think that's what they're going to have to sort through this off season when they ultimately make that choice and again maybe it's a different coaching staff it's going to be there anyway and they don't give a shit

about having to have a bridge quarterback because they have a little bit more leash because it's year one of a new regime so just so many questions that a lot of these teams are having to sort through. And I think the Browns arguably have as many as anybody considering what the quarterback and offensive line situation is going to look like combined with the staff questions. We're going to take one more quick break and then come back with our final two teams here. The Washington commanders who could have fit into yesterday's show, honestly.

Like they're the only team that we could have put in either one of those, but they are picking in the top eight. So it pretty cleanly fits into this. What is your silver lining for the 2025, Washington commanders. If Jaden Daniels can remain healthy, I mean, he is still a quarterback that I would be incredibly excited about. And then I think on top of that, like kind of pairing with that a little bit, I do think the offensive line has something. Like, I think the tonsal trade was what you

wanted it to be. I think even finding like Chris Paul at guard has been like, he's not the best agent, actually. Oh, really? Is he that old? Yes. Yes. Okay. He's been there for a while. I feel like they could still get him back for a decent. Like, I don't feel like he would be a guy commands that much in free agency. And so at least for the sake of like consistency. I think I would want to probably bring him back if they can. And then you just hope that Conner League takes a step. And he's been a little bit better later in the season than he was. I think he had some really rough stretches early on.

But he still, I really, really liked him coming out at the draft. And so I think between those two factors, there's still enough reason for optimism here if Daniels can stay healthy. But we talked about earlier, that's not necessarily a given. You're a year removed from the Cosmi injury. He came into the season banged up, obviously. So you'd hope that you're going to get a better version of him next year. Tunsell's been incredible this season. and so that group still a lot to like moving into next year.

I'm with you, though. I mean, yeah, the Jane Daniels injury thing obviously is a concern. But last year happened. Like, that was real. Like, whatever happened this year doesn't erase what we got from Jaden Daniels this year, even if I think there are legitimate questions about his ability to stay healthy moving forward. But that is a quarterback that if he's on your roster, you feel at least decent about what the future is going.

going to look like, even if there are a lot of questions elsewhere. This season is a fucking disaster for Washington. Like, it's a fucking disaster. Like, there's no ambiguity about that. But that was always possible when they did what they did. Like, bringing back this group of, like, aging veterans and just trying to take whatever you did last year and push it further over the finish line, this is always the downside case of that.

They can pretty easily move on from that version of this build. into like a more traditional timeline. The only thing that's preventing them from doing that is a lack of picks. Like they traded away some of those picks, and so they have fewer resources in which to add young talent to the roster, but they still have a lot of flexibility and free agency if they want to use it. And they don't really have a lot of like bloated contracts as part of this. I mean, the only guys they really traded for, Debo is,

they can move on from Debo after this year, I believe this is the final year of his contract, even if they, after they adjusted it. And then Tunsell is entering the final year of his deal next year. I assume he's going to get an extension. But even guys like Latimore, you could move on from him this year. And so a lot of your big swings were not long-term financial commitments. They were just draft capital commitments. And so the pivot off of whatever the 2025 plan was for the commanders is not that ugly of a pivot,

even if you've left yourself with fewer bites of the Apple draft-wise. Yeah, I think it like makes, I think the bitter part of it is that, yeah, like, you thought, that you could get over the line this year and then you were completely terrible. But I do think that when you have the quarterback like this and you have enough pieces at the offensive line, like you can make a couple of decent picks, get one or two free agency signings and be back to where you need to be. And then obviously I think I assume the coaching staff will be different. Maybe it won't be, but I would have to assume with how bad the defense was that it should be.

It almost has to be. I mean, you moved on from the defensive coordinator as the play caller halfway through the year. Like, how are you not going to make changes? It's what you said with the Cowboys, which actually the Commanders apply to this. The Bengals were a historically bad defense for two-thirds of the season, and there was a stretch late November, early December, where the commanders were worse than that. Like, that's probably, that's pretty inexcusable when you have a head coach who's a defensive guy.

I think that is the biggest remaining question where if you want to take the opposite side, where there's less optimism about this team than we're framing it to be right now, it's is this the right coaching staff? Because after last year when it was, not is this the right coaching staff, what is the ceiling of this coaching staff specifically, I think becomes a worthwhile question after this year. Because last year, after the 2025 season,

it was all sunshine and rainbows and I can't wait to see where this all goes. It's all good all the time. Everybody's happy. After this year, you just can't be in that place. Defensively, something needs to change. change. And I don't want to be too harsh on what the offense was this year, considering the fact that they were dealing with quarterback injuries overall. But I still think there's a reasonable question

to be asked about what the long-term ceiling is for a team that plays such a specific brand of offensive football in the way that Washington does. So I actually feel now kind of about Cliff Kingsbury the way that I do about like Greg Roman, where they are, it's a very specific style of offense. It can work in certain ways. When you hop into a new environment and like get a bunch of different players, like you can kind of get on people with one year. Obviously, Lamar Jackson 2019 or even earlier stretches with Greg Roman like some of the Kaepernick stuff or obviously what he did in Buffalo with Tarad Taylor.

You can have these little stretches where it looks hot when you have all the right guys. I do think once teams start to get a little bit more on you, it really does put just more onus on the execution of the quarterback to be unbelievable or the talent otherwise. and I just think Washington was in a spot where, you know, I think teams were a little bit more ready for what Daniels was capable of this year. And then the past catching talent just wasn't good enough. And when you're going to be this spread, RPO, like empty team all of the time, you need to be able to just have more receiving talent than they did.

And I think some of what they got away with just kind of fell apart this year. And that's why I want to give them a little bit of grace. Like even outside of the Daniels thing, you have nine games from Terry McCorn. You don't have many pass catchers outside of Terry McCorn other than Debo's, Samuel, who's like a very specific type of player. This team, if we walk into next year with this same offensive line, a healthy Jane Daniels, Terry McCorren, Brandon I, Yook, and this coaching staff, let's just see how it goes.

Like, I think I have similar questions that you do, but I do think they deserve another year with like an actual staple of players before we get overly alarmist about what the Cliff Kingsbury commanders are going to look like in the long term. That's where I'm with it. I think I have some questions about like the consistency and the stability of some of this stuff. But I don't think it was so bad this year that like you have to fire Cliff Kingsbury and get somebody in there.

Like he's of a decent quality enough coordinator that he's got some stuff that he can go to consistently. And you'll just see if they can find that ceiling again. Our last team here, their last because they're picking furthest down the draft of all of these teams is the New Orleans Saints. And suddenly on December. 30 if we've gotten to a place where the New Orleans Saints might be the easiest team to have an answer for in this exercise. So what is your silver lining for the 2025 New Orleans Saints?

I think it's a very broad answer, but I think the roster overall is just better than it seemed like it was going to be. Like I think the defense, the defense quietly has been like pretty damn good, especially over the second half of the season. And I think there's a lot of excitement with the young talent on this team. But a lot of the young talent is some guys. on offense. It's like Kelvin Banks. It's Tyler Shuck, obviously. And then you've got a couple of the guys on defense, but really the only one that's played a lot of the season is Jonas Sanker at safety. And I think that he's played really well. But a lot of the defense is like, I think it's actually been called well by Brandon Staley. The front is playing well. I think Gleid McKinstree,

even though he has some tough games, I think has had generally a decent season. Alante Taylor has been good at the nickel for them, like them getting proof of concept on that side of the ball. And then Tyler Shuck, having some pretty good signs of life, especially over the last month, that's enough to be excited about where I think this thing could be going. I'm with you. And I think a lot of it to me is the quarterback and the way that the quarterback is playing. I really like watching him play. I really like the way he plays the position.

We talked about it after the Panthers game, but I like the rhythm he plays within the pocket. The physical tools are pretty clear. Like when you watch his ability to drive the ball, he has a really nice arm. The movement is just better than I expected it to be with like a player of his archetype. he's able to extend a little bit more. He's able to scramble in selective situations. I mean, there are like four or five plays he made in the Titans game where I'm sitting there being like, okay.

Like I can work with this. He throws a deep out to Pettis in the third quarter of that game that made me sit up straight in my chair. And then even the touchdown he had to Kevin Austin, by the way, Kevin Austin is number 81 catching passes from him in this game because all the other pass catchers other than Olave and the tight ends are hurt. And then he threw a pass. Like it was kind of the dagger in the four.

quarter. And it was similar to me to a lot of the throws he had in that Panthers game, where he starts left, comes all the way backside to Joanne Johnson, and just fires like a backside inbreaker to Juan Johnson on a huge third down. I don't know, man. Like, I'm pretty excited about what he can be within this offense. And even with so many guys hurt right now offensively, you have two of your preferred starting offensive lineman, given like the current state of that group last week against the Titans. You have Ovalave and no other receivers. All of your running backs are hurt. And I still, when I'm watching the offense, I'm like, I like this. Like, I think there's a lot for them to build on, not only with the quarterback and some of the talent, but just what they're

trying to be and what they're trying to do on offense. I think there's a lot to like with that. And like you said, with the defense, I think there's enough there on defense. You have some of the younger draft picks, and even like Chase Young, Chase Young is 26. Still a good player. Yeah. He's He's 26 years old. And he had a really nice season. And so I think that there is a lot to build on with where the Saints are right now. And you're picking in the top 10. You're probably not picking a quarterback based on how your guy has been.

So you can go a different direction there. And they're still paying the taxes and the bills for all of the cap shit next year. Like there's still $11 million over the cap. I assume they're not going to want to do too much stuff in terms of trying to get under it. so they're not borrowing from the 2027 cap, but by 2027, you're clear. Like all the other things that you did over the last however long,

those sins have been paid for by the time you get to 2027. And so I think like the two-year outlook for this team is just dramatically more clear sky than I anticipated it being by the end of this season. It is. Like I just, the floor for this team was a lot, ended up being a lot higher than I thought it was going to be. And I think I don't necessarily,

think that either Kellyn Moore or Brandon Staley have done anything this off season or this season from like a coaching perspective where I'm like, oh my God, schematically, they're just kicking ass. But I watch them and I'm just like, they're put together every week and guys know what they're doing and they're executing well. And then kind of like you were saying like Tyler Shuck, I don't think is maybe like quite as exciting as like a Cam Ward or whatever, but he's very put together. Like he just feels like he's playing adult quarterback and is not really overwhelmed by having to command the offense. Like I think Jackson Dart like on a on a play to play like Jackson Dart does more exciting things within like one individual play.

Like I do think he's a better athlete. He'll get to some just crazier throws outside of the pocket and stuff. But I think the command of the offense down to down can be a little bit tougher for Jackson Dart. With Tyler Shuck, I don't really feel that. Like I think maybe the accuracy you would want to get honed in a little bit. But like I still think that generally he's got some pretty high floor stuff there. I almost think that some of the ways in which he's boring or good. for a young quarterback.

I think that the fact that it does look as settled as it does, even if it's not quite as exciting as some of those other young guys, the dips aren't quite as low. He still takes some bad sex. Like that, if you're trying to like, if we're trying to think about

where he needs to improve, even in that Titan's game. Which is the Ryan-Tanhill thing. Right-Den-Hill thing. That's something that as you get a little bit older and as you get a better feel for when the ball needs to come out, why it needs to come out.

And with him, I think part of the problem with him. And this is, it's not necessarily a problem. It's just that because he's a good enough athlete to be a scramble and to create a little bit, he's hanging on to the ball more often in some of these scenarios because he doesn't need to get it out immediately for it to be a positive play. And so I think that's something that you can get a better sense of as you spend more time in the league and as you get more reps. But the fact that he is a good enough athlete to have some of those creation moments that lead to the sacks, I think ultimately can be more of a positive

that it is a negative. Yeah, I'm with you. I'm excited to see how they kind of retool the offense around him and what they think it's supposed to be. And I think that'll be fun. All right. That is all we've got, at least something to be excited about for all eight teams picking at the top of the draft. This will be coming your guys way on Thursday this week. We've got a full slate of shows. Building the Beast should be in your feed right now. Obviously a lot to talk about with the playoff games

that are happening later in the week. As we did today, we're starting to get into draft talk because the top of the draft is starting to crystallize a little bit. So if you are not listening to Building the Beast with Dane and Dave,

now is absolutely the time to start getting into those shows and start checking them out because they are more relevant now than they've been all year. And then tomorrow, we're going to have our week 18 preview only hitting like a handful of games.

but then we're also going to talk about some of the milestones the players could be hitting this week and then all of the different seating situations that we're going to be looking at depending on how those games go. So multiple shows still coming your guys away this week. And then we'll be back with our week 18 recap on Sunday night. For now, that's all we got. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you soon.